July 11, 2025 • 19 mins
Did you like this episode? Dislike it?
You’re not writing for your lawyer buddies—you’re writing for the people who actually hire you. In this episode, John and Mike break down why your words matter more than you think, how to ditch the fluff and clever slogans, and why clients don’t care about your resume. It's time to talk about the real power behind what you say—and what you should stop saying immediately.
📌 Key Takeaways
- Speak to client pain points, not your peers.
- Ditch features and focus on benefits your audience cares about.
- Not every post needs a hard pitch—some just need to help.
📆 Schedule Your Strategy Session
📱You can check out the video component by following us here on
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I still talk to so many lawyers who are like well,
I want to make sure that mycolleagues, you know, like this
content that it speaks to themand it's like respectfully, man,
like I am not trying to talk tothem.
They're not hiring you and youknow you can play devil's
advocate and be like well, yeah,but my lawyer colleagues are
(00:20):
the ones who send me the mostreferrals, cool.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
But they're not sending you referrals because of
your blogs.
They're sending you referralsbecause they know you do good
work Right.
Welcome to the Law FirmMarketing Minute, the go-to
podcast for solo and small lawfirms who want to level up.
This week is part one of atwo-part episode on words and
their effects on your law firm'smarketing.
(00:44):
We're joined by John Hinson,who shares a boatload of insight
.
And remember, if your law firmneeds more clients and better
clients, go togrowmylawfirmfastcom.
That's growmylawfirmfastcom.
All right, let's get right intothe episode.
Hello everyone, welcome back tothe Law Firm Marketing Minute.
As always, I'm your host, smike.
(01:04):
Today we have a veryrecognizable voice, john.
Hey, that's me, I'm back.
How's life, john?
How's life?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's busy.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, it's very busy.
Well, I mean, you got a littleone already, another one on the
way.
I don't know if the publicknows that, but now they will.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And knows that.
But now they will, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And then I got a lot of clients that I work with that
.
Oh, that's true, your job, Ihave a job, yeah, yeah.
And so you know to.
You know they're great, but Idon't want to work for them
while I'm on paternity, so I'mtrying to get all my work done.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
There you go, there you go, but today we're going to
talk about something that Ithink you're going to enjoy
we're going to talk about words.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Great, because I had no idea what we were talking
about.
Yeah, you just threw me in here.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
That's what I do best is that I tend to just jump
into things and say, hey, let'sdo this, and luckily enough,
people are like, ok, yeah, I'mgood with it.
But no, I mean, obviouslyyou're one of our main writers
here, and so you know.
I just kind of wanted to shareyour insight on the power of
words in marketing, so notnecessarily in blogs, so to say.
(02:10):
I mean, obviously you could.
You know, there's moments wherethe words matter, and you know,
choosing specific words andwhatnot to make something seem
either, you know, at a higherlevel of reading or a lower
level of reading, but alsoreally just in copy, like with
ads and stuff like that.
First of all, something that Istruggle with a lot and I'm sure
(02:31):
someone in the audiencelistening probably does as well,
hopefully, so I'm not the onlyone is that I add too much fluff
to the copy that I create.
There's a reason why Eddie,who's another writer, creates
our social media captions, but Icreate the media itself,
because he's just able to finetune it so well.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, well, I think if you're, it depends on what
the purpose of the copy is,especially like on the ad side
or the social media side, isright?
Like if you're just trying toinform and engage and all that,
like you know, you can get awaywith some longer copy.
But if you're trying to convertand you're trying to grab
people's attention right out ofthe gate and get them to take
(03:15):
action, you need shorter copy.
But that's so hard to do yeahbecause you have so much that
you want to try to convey, butbut you probably only have 30,
30, 45, 60 characters to do itand that's like only a few words
.
Yeah, and that's really, reallydifficult.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
And then, on top of that, you also have their
attention span too, so it's likeyou only have so many
characters, but on top and thenon top of that, you only have
their attention for so long.
So the right words yeah,Choosing the right words is like
what goes through your mind,Like if you had to sit and
create copy, like what's thefirst thing that you're thinking
(03:53):
of?
Like okay, this is how I'mgoing to craft this piece of
copy.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Right, you know, some pieces are easier than others.
I think you know Contextmatters.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, context, I'm big on context, you know.
But for me, you know, contextmatters.
Yeah, context, I'm big oncontext.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, but for me you know, like, for example, let's
say, if we're doing just asimple lead nurture campaign,
right, where we're just tryingto run some ads to try to
generate some leads, you knowwhat's our hook, what are we
offering, what are we givingaway, and from there it's all
right.
Let's figure out what kind ofpain points are people having
and how do we distill that downinto a couple of phrases or a
(04:29):
couple of sentences?
That to your point.
Because I mean people, peoplejust doom scrolling on on
Facebook or wherever we'rerunning the ads.
You know, linkedin, linkedin,as great of a platform as it is,
it could be so much greater,just because I feel like
everything just kind of getslost in a timeline, like
(04:50):
everything kind of runs togetherFor sure there's something
going on.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
This is a side note.
There's something going on onLinkedIn and has been for the
past couple of years where it'slike everyone's posts are like
exactly the same, like they saylike some big bolded line about
their big discovery in life, andthen they talk about something
or whatever and then they add apicture of themselves.
Now I tried to do that and itdidn't work out, but-.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
God, it's almost like every single person on there
heard the same thing from thesame like marketing influencer
and then just all flocked thereBecause, yeah, but whatever,
it's beside the point, yeah, umso you know.
Wherever it is, though, thatyou're trying to to get those
results.
You know, I think the key istry to understand your
(05:35):
audience's pain point.
You know, and especially forlawyers, that's a big thing
because, again, I still talk toso many lawyers who are like
well, I want to make sure thatmy colleagues like this content
Respect them that it speaks tothem and it's like respectfully,
man, I am not trying to talk tothem.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
They're not hiring you.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
And you can play devil's advocate and be like
well, yeah, but my lawyercolleagues are the ones who send
me the most referrals, Cool.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
They're not sending you referrals because of your
blogs.
They're sending you referralsbecause they know you do good
work.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Right and guess who's going to then vet you and read
your content to make sure thatthat makes sense for them to
hire you.
Yeah you know.
So that's the key there.
Your audience is still moreimportant than your lawyer
buddies, as great as they are,and that's great that they send
you referrals, but you stillneed to pass the test to make
(06:29):
sure that the person that gotreferred to you you know is
still going to hire you For sure.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
There are two things that go into legal marketing
that you really need to know.
The first one you probablyalready know if you've been a
long time listener of the Lawfor Marketing Minute which is
that there are so many thingsthat go into marketing, there's
so many channels, there's somany strategies it can be a
headache, I get it.
The second thing you need toknow is that our listeners
(06:54):
actually have access to anexclusive offer.
It's one free month of ourmarketing services, completely
free, just for being a listener.
How cool is that?
So what you got to do to claimthis offer basically is to go
into the podcast description.
There's a link.
You can click that link andsign up, get your booking and
pick a time that works for you,or you can go to
(07:16):
growmylawfirmfastcom.
That's growmylawfirmfastcom toget started.
All right, let's get right backto the episode.
So a lot of times in,especially in just advertising
people and I've seen this a lotin law firms and you know what
Just to kind of preview what wegot coming up on this episode,
because I actually planned somecool things.
(07:36):
One of the things is I have abunch of different billboards
from lawyers that are just we'regoing to pick them apart.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yes, I love criticizing things.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
But to to.
What I'm trying to say here isthat a lot of law firms like to
use cleverness when it comes totheir advertising.
You know where?
It's like some sort of slogan.
I'm not even talking about theones that are like oh, I'm the
hammer.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
You know what I mean.
There's so many hammers outthere, so many hammers.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But I'm just like you know.
You know, one of the onesthat's not on the list here but
one of the ones I see a lot herein North Carolina is the Morgan
Morgan.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Oh, they're everywhere, dude.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Size matters.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah.
Like obviously you're funnydude yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
But like let's speak to why clarity beats cleverness
when it comes to law firmadvertising.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, you just want to make sure that people are in
the right spot.
Sure, yeah, you just want tomake sure that people are in the
right spot, sure, and you know,because I mean how many times
and I hear this still a lot toois just like, yeah, I just have
all these people calling me,asking me to do things I don't
really do or I don't like to do,and it's like, well, all right,
what's your messaging puttingout there?
Like, are you putting it outthere that you're just kind of a
door lawyer, that you're justinviting everyone in, everyone
(08:50):
in, or is your messaging alsorepelling people?
Because that's important too?
The wrong people Right, like youknow.
Yes, your message wants toclarify who you are, but at the
same, you know on the other sideof that coin, you want to repel
people, you want to make surethat you filter out a lot of the
stuff that you don't want todeal with, and so you know, I
think so many people, and Ithink a lot of lawyers, take
(09:11):
this for granted just becausethey're in this world all the
time and so they know the nuanceand the differentiation.
But I think most people justassume that, oh, you're a lawyer
, you do everything, you know.
Oh, I got a traffic ticket andI need a divorce and I should
probably get my last will andtestament written up.
I can probably just go to thesame guy you know, and I mean
there are probably lawyers outthere who do that but that you
(09:33):
don't have to go to the samelawyer who does that, just like
you don't go, you don't have togo to the same doctor for your
gout, your high cholesterol andyour, you know, torn ACL.
They all, they all do differentthings.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
No, I got you, I got you.
No, I got you, I got you.
Um so okay.
So, in terms of structuringproper um copy on an ad or on
social media, like, what are westarting off with?
Obviously, I talk a lot when Italk about social media.
I talk a lot about hooks, yep,um, but like anything can go
(10:11):
into a hook, right.
So so obviously the hook is thegrab, you know, is the
attention grabber, yeah, but I'mseeing a lot on, uh, you know,
my, my producers in my ear andtelling me that you know there
needs to be a shift fromfeatures to benefits and copy,
because we see a lot of lawfirms use it, the, the phrases
(10:34):
oh, we've been in business 20years, this and that, right,
when they should be sayingsomething like 20 years of doing
what they do, yeah, rather, youknow, what are your thoughts on
that?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I mean because, look, theresume is great, but everyone
has a resume and people careabout well, like that's cool and
that's great that you won$8,000 million for you know.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I think that was on a Morgan and Morgan.
Yeah, probably.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
It's great that you got that person all that money
for the car accident that theyhad.
But here's the thing, mr LawyerI was hit by a bus driven by a
mongoose, and I'm pretty surethat's never happened in the
history of ever before.
So I need to know if you knowhow to handle that.
Yeah, and you know.
You telling me that you've beena lawyer for 20 years doesn't
(11:25):
tell me that you know how tohandle it.
It just means that you've, youknow, had a stable career, I
guess.
So that's that's where you knowthe kind of content that you
pull and promote and the waythat you grab people.
That's where it's going to makethe difference.
And so to those benefits.
You know and look, every pieceof content is not going to speak
(11:45):
to every single person.
That's why it's so important tobe consistent with the content
that you put out, so that overtime you do kind of touch on as
many different issues as you can.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So then, what do you say to the people that say, oh
well, you know, I want to marketto people that need me.
What am I doing that you know,if I make my marketing so
specific that people see it andthey're like, oh, I don't want
to work with this guy, I don'tneed that guy.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Now, then you just close up shop?
I guess no, but what I mean?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
what I mean is that, like, for example, you know, we
say a lot of times that whenyou're marketing to everybody,
you're marketing to nobody.
Right, like that I can't.
I think that kind of speaksinto the specificity.
Specificity, there it is, youdid it, I did it, I didn't.
I'm gonna replay this back andbe like, oh my god, but anyways,
um, like speaks to that howspecific it gets because, like
(12:41):
you said before, you want torepel the ones that are not who
you want to work with, right?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
yeah, and I mean to look at it every way.
You know, whenever I'm talkingto my clients and whenever we're
trying to figure out what kindof blogs I'm going to write for
them, or whatever, you know, oneof the questions I ask them to
try to get their minds workingis what do you want to attract,
like, what kind of cases do youwant to really push for and take
on right now?
And that's the kind of contentthat you want to put out there.
(13:06):
So again, let's take estateplanning, for example, or no,
let's take family law, forexample.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Sure, we all love family lawyers.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Right.
So not everyone is gonna belooking to get a divorce right,
but maybe someone's looking toadopt a stepchild, or maybe
someone is already divorced andthey need to modify the judgment
after the fact.
Whatever the case is right.
Well, if you want to be knownfor all of those things within
(13:33):
family law, great, all right,let's focus on that.
Right, people are coming to youfor traffic tickets.
We don't want that.
We're not going to talk abouttraffic tickets, so we're not
going to post about that.
But you want to be known as afamily lawyer and let's say you
hate doing divorces becausedivorces bum you out.
I get it.
I mean I don't like that'sEddie's thing, but not me.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
He's on vacation right now, so he can't join us
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
We can talk trash Gosh this would have been the
one episode where Eddie doesn'tmention his divorce.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
And then I mention it for him.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Oh, it's a disease at this point, anyway.
So let's say, let's say youdon't want to be known for
divorces, you want to be knownfor adoptions or helping people
post judgment, whatever the caseis divorces.
You want to be known foradoptions or helping people post
judgment, whatever the case is.
That's the concept that youfocus on and those are the pain
points that you address.
Right, it's like oh, you know,your new blended family, let's,
you know, really make itofficial and let's, you know,
(14:24):
get that adoption process going.
Oh, the original judgmentdoesn't work for you anymore.
You had a change in your career, or you lost your job or
whatever.
Let's work to make it fair foryou again.
Right, so it's, it goes bothways and it does both things at
the same time.
Right, you're, you're repellingthe people that aren't going to
need your services, but you'realso doing a lot to attract the
(14:45):
people that you do want to workwith.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
And would you agree that by doing so?
That's the big differencebetween writing about yourself
versus writing for the reader?
So, for example, like if if youwere to say we've been in
business 20 years, right, thatis writing about yourself,
whereas if you say 20 years offighting doing this, right,
that's writing for the reader.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Right, yeah, it goes back to the story brand concept.
Ah, yes, that we've beenworking with for a while now,
where it's like you are not youthe lawyer, you're not the hero,
it's not about you.
You're Gandalf, though you,you're not the hero, it's not
about you.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
You're Gandalf though .
Speaker 1 (15:21):
You are Gandalf's cool and I know you love that.
I love it.
So, yeah, you're not Frodo,you're Gandalf, and I know that.
You know it's kind of a weirdpush and pull where it's like
you know, you're doing thebranding, you're building
yourself up, you're buildingyour name, so, in a way, yeah,
(15:44):
and what you do, but you have toflip it and then frame it for
your audience.
You know, and it's about, notabout.
It's not about all the greatthings that you've done, it's
about all of the ways that youcan help others.
And I think that language shiftis really important, so that
you know to your point.
You know it's not about oh, $30billion one for our clients.
It's I can help you recoverfrom this accident.
(16:08):
I can go fight the insurancecompany for you.
I can help you get $30 billionMaybe, but yes, but things like
that, where it's you know it'sspeaking directly to those pain
points rather than you know it'snot.
Look at what I've done in thepast, it's here's what I can do
for you in the future.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So let's talk about calls to action, ctas, because
those are the things that youknow theoretically, those are
the things that are going tomake people want to take action,
right then and there.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
How can you make them like you know, for lack of
better words more powerful?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah.
How can you make them, for lackof better words, more powerful?
Yeah, well, definitely don'tOne.
You don't actually have to havea call to action on every
single post you make on socialmedia.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Because there's a lot of them just informational for
you to know.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And the call to action can also look different.
So, again, you don't have toinclude your phone number on
every single post.
So, like, again, you don't haveto include your phone number on
every single post.
All right, People are not thatignorant to where.
Like it's like oh, I just sawthis post.
He didn't include his phonenumber.
I guess I'll never, you know.
I guess I'll never call no, likethey can click through.
So like, if sharing a blog,invite them to just finish
(17:20):
reading the blog, you know.
And then they're getting onyour website and now, all of a
sudden, they can, you know,download a free resource or sign
up for your newsletter or fillout your contact form that way,
right, you know, it's just so.
I guess, contextually, itdepends on what you're posting
about.
Sure, you know, if you'reposting a snippet to a video,
click through to watch the restof this video or read the rest
of this blog, sign up for ournewsletter, download this
resource, right, it's, it's,here's some information, that's
(17:44):
it.
And then you back off and youcan still have some posts that
are like direct hard calls toaction.
Sure, I mean, we sprinkle thosein all the time, but switch it
up, focus on the value thatyou're providing and peel back a
little bit on.
Call our office, call ouroffice.
Call our office, call ouroffice.
Because, people are going totune that out?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, Because you also.
You probably don't want to likehave your audience just assume
that you're expecting somethingin return, every single time you
know that you're actuallyhelping out.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, I mean, and you're also fighting an uphill
battle a lot of the time, right,that's true.
Like you know, people justassume that you see their case
and your eyes just turn intodollar signs.
And maybe that's true, maybe ina Donald Duck cartoon, but you
don't want to broadcast that.
Let's change the perceptionhere so that you're not an
(18:37):
ambulance chaser or any of theother negative terms that are
out there or any of the othernegative terms that are out
there.
Focus on providing value andjust participating at least in
the social media world.
Just participating in thesocial media world and just
being part of that community.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Right on.
Thanks for listening to partone of the two-part episode.
Join us next week for thesecond part, where we discuss
words, this or that and we alsotear down some pretty terrible
billboards and they're not sogreat advertising strategies.
We'll see you then.
I still talk to so many lawyers who are like well,
I want to make sure that mycolleagues, you know, like this
content that it speaks to themand it's like respectfully, man,
like I am not trying to talk tothem.
They're not hiring you and youknow you can play devil's
advocate and be like well, yeah,but my lawyer colleagues are
(00:20):
the ones who send me the mostreferrals, cool.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
But they're not sending you referrals because of
your blogs.
They're sending you referralsbecause they know you do good
work Right.
Welcome to the Law FirmMarketing Minute, the go-to
podcast for solo and small lawfirms who want to level up.
This week is part one of atwo-part episode on words and
their effects on your law firm'smarketing.
(00:44):
We're joined by John Hinson,who shares a boatload of insight
.
And remember, if your law firmneeds more clients and better
clients, go togrowmylawfirmfastcom.
That's growmylawfirmfastcom.
All right, let's get right intothe episode.
Hello everyone, welcome back tothe Law Firm Marketing Minute.
As always, I'm your host, smike.
(01:04):
Today we have a veryrecognizable voice, john.
Hey, that's me, I'm back.
How's life, john?
How's life?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's busy.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, it's very busy.
Well, I mean, you got a littleone already, another one on the
way.
I don't know if the publicknows that, but now they will.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
And knows that.
But now they will, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And then I got a lot of clients that I work with that
.
Oh, that's true, your job, Ihave a job, yeah, yeah.
And so you know to.
You know they're great, but Idon't want to work for them
while I'm on paternity, so I'mtrying to get all my work done.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
There you go, there you go, but today we're going to
talk about something that Ithink you're going to enjoy
we're going to talk about words.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Great, because I had no idea what we were talking
about.
Yeah, you just threw me in here.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
That's what I do best is that I tend to just jump
into things and say, hey, let'sdo this, and luckily enough,
people are like, ok, yeah, I'mgood with it.
But no, I mean, obviouslyyou're one of our main writers
here, and so you know.
I just kind of wanted to shareyour insight on the power of
words in marketing, so notnecessarily in blogs, so to say.
(02:10):
I mean, obviously you could.
You know, there's moments wherethe words matter, and you know,
choosing specific words andwhatnot to make something seem
either, you know, at a higherlevel of reading or a lower
level of reading, but alsoreally just in copy, like with
ads and stuff like that.
First of all, something that Istruggle with a lot and I'm sure
(02:31):
someone in the audiencelistening probably does as well,
hopefully, so I'm not the onlyone is that I add too much fluff
to the copy that I create.
There's a reason why Eddie,who's another writer, creates
our social media captions, but Icreate the media itself,
because he's just able to finetune it so well.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, well, I think if you're, it depends on what
the purpose of the copy is,especially like on the ad side
or the social media side, isright?
Like if you're just trying toinform and engage and all that,
like you know, you can get awaywith some longer copy.
But if you're trying to convertand you're trying to grab
people's attention right out ofthe gate and get them to take
(03:15):
action, you need shorter copy.
But that's so hard to do yeahbecause you have so much that
you want to try to convey, butbut you probably only have 30,
30, 45, 60 characters to do itand that's like only a few words
.
Yeah, and that's really, reallydifficult.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
And then, on top of that, you also have their
attention span too, so it's likeyou only have so many
characters, but on top and thenon top of that, you only have
their attention for so long.
So the right words yeah,Choosing the right words is like
what goes through your mind,Like if you had to sit and
create copy, like what's thefirst thing that you're thinking
(03:53):
of?
Like okay, this is how I'mgoing to craft this piece of
copy.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Right, you know, some pieces are easier than others.
I think you know Contextmatters.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yeah, context, I'm big on context, you know.
But for me, you know, contextmatters.
Yeah, context, I'm big oncontext.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, but for me you know, like, for example, let's
say, if we're doing just asimple lead nurture campaign,
right, where we're just tryingto run some ads to try to
generate some leads, you knowwhat's our hook, what are we
offering, what are we givingaway, and from there it's all
right.
Let's figure out what kind ofpain points are people having
and how do we distill that downinto a couple of phrases or a
(04:29):
couple of sentences?
That to your point.
Because I mean people, peoplejust doom scrolling on on
Facebook or wherever we'rerunning the ads.
You know, linkedin, linkedin,as great of a platform as it is,
it could be so much greater,just because I feel like
everything just kind of getslost in a timeline, like
(04:50):
everything kind of runs togetherFor sure there's something
going on.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
This is a side note.
There's something going on onLinkedIn and has been for the
past couple of years where it'slike everyone's posts are like
exactly the same, like they saylike some big bolded line about
their big discovery in life, andthen they talk about something
or whatever and then they add apicture of themselves.
Now I tried to do that and itdidn't work out, but-.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
God, it's almost like every single person on there
heard the same thing from thesame like marketing influencer
and then just all flocked thereBecause, yeah, but whatever,
it's beside the point, yeah, umso you know.
Wherever it is, though, thatyou're trying to to get those
results.
You know, I think the key istry to understand your
(05:35):
audience's pain point.
You know, and especially forlawyers, that's a big thing
because, again, I still talk toso many lawyers who are like
well, I want to make sure thatmy colleagues like this content
Respect them that it speaks tothem and it's like respectfully,
man, I am not trying to talk tothem.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
They're not hiring you.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
And you can play devil's advocate and be like
well, yeah, but my lawyercolleagues are the ones who send
me the most referrals, Cool.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
They're not sending you referrals because of your
blogs.
They're sending you referralsbecause they know you do good
work.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Right and guess who's going to then vet you and read
your content to make sure thatthat makes sense for them to
hire you.
Yeah you know.
So that's the key there.
Your audience is still moreimportant than your lawyer
buddies, as great as they are,and that's great that they send
you referrals, but you stillneed to pass the test to make
(06:29):
sure that the person that gotreferred to you you know is
still going to hire you For sure.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
There are two things that go into legal marketing
that you really need to know.
The first one you probablyalready know if you've been a
long time listener of the Lawfor Marketing Minute which is
that there are so many thingsthat go into marketing, there's
so many channels, there's somany strategies it can be a
headache, I get it.
The second thing you need toknow is that our listeners
(06:54):
actually have access to anexclusive offer.
It's one free month of ourmarketing services, completely
free, just for being a listener.
How cool is that?
So what you got to do to claimthis offer basically is to go
into the podcast description.
There's a link.
You can click that link andsign up, get your booking and
pick a time that works for you,or you can go to
(07:16):
growmylawfirmfastcom.
That's growmylawfirmfastcom toget started.
All right, let's get right backto the episode.
So a lot of times in,especially in just advertising
people and I've seen this a lotin law firms and you know what
Just to kind of preview what wegot coming up on this episode,
because I actually planned somecool things.
(07:36):
One of the things is I have abunch of different billboards
from lawyers that are just we'regoing to pick them apart.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yes, I love criticizing things.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
But to to.
What I'm trying to say here isthat a lot of law firms like to
use cleverness when it comes totheir advertising.
You know where?
It's like some sort of slogan.
I'm not even talking about theones that are like oh, I'm the
hammer.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
You know what I mean.
There's so many hammers outthere, so many hammers.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
But I'm just like you know.
You know, one of the onesthat's not on the list here but
one of the ones I see a lot herein North Carolina is the Morgan
Morgan.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Oh, they're everywhere, dude.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Size matters.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah.
Like obviously you're funnydude yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
But like let's speak to why clarity beats cleverness
when it comes to law firmadvertising.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, you just want to make sure that people are in
the right spot.
Sure, yeah, you just want tomake sure that people are in the
right spot, sure, and you know,because I mean how many times
and I hear this still a lot toois just like, yeah, I just have
all these people calling me,asking me to do things I don't
really do or I don't like to do,and it's like, well, all right,
what's your messaging puttingout there?
Like, are you putting it outthere that you're just kind of a
door lawyer, that you're justinviting everyone in, everyone
(08:50):
in, or is your messaging alsorepelling people?
Because that's important too?
The wrong people Right, like youknow.
Yes, your message wants toclarify who you are, but at the
same, you know on the other sideof that coin, you want to repel
people, you want to make surethat you filter out a lot of the
stuff that you don't want todeal with, and so you know, I
think so many people, and Ithink a lot of lawyers, take
(09:11):
this for granted just becausethey're in this world all the
time and so they know the nuanceand the differentiation.
But I think most people justassume that, oh, you're a lawyer
, you do everything, you know.
Oh, I got a traffic ticket andI need a divorce and I should
probably get my last will andtestament written up.
I can probably just go to thesame guy you know, and I mean
there are probably lawyers outthere who do that but that you
(09:33):
don't have to go to the samelawyer who does that, just like
you don't go, you don't have togo to the same doctor for your
gout, your high cholesterol andyour, you know, torn ACL.
They all, they all do differentthings.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
No, I got you, I got you.
No, I got you, I got you.
Um so okay.
So, in terms of structuringproper um copy on an ad or on
social media, like, what are westarting off with?
Obviously, I talk a lot when Italk about social media.
I talk a lot about hooks, yep,um, but like anything can go
(10:11):
into a hook, right.
So so obviously the hook is thegrab, you know, is the
attention grabber, yeah, but I'mseeing a lot on, uh, you know,
my, my producers in my ear andtelling me that you know there
needs to be a shift fromfeatures to benefits and copy,
because we see a lot of lawfirms use it, the, the phrases
(10:34):
oh, we've been in business 20years, this and that, right,
when they should be sayingsomething like 20 years of doing
what they do, yeah, rather, youknow, what are your thoughts on
that?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, no, I agree.
I mean because, look, theresume is great, but everyone
has a resume and people careabout well, like that's cool and
that's great that you won$8,000 million for you know.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
I think that was on a Morgan and Morgan.
Yeah, probably.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
It's great that you got that person all that money
for the car accident that theyhad.
But here's the thing, mr LawyerI was hit by a bus driven by a
mongoose, and I'm pretty surethat's never happened in the
history of ever before.
So I need to know if you knowhow to handle that.
Yeah, and you know.
You telling me that you've beena lawyer for 20 years doesn't
(11:25):
tell me that you know how tohandle it.
It just means that you've, youknow, had a stable career, I
guess.
So that's that's where you knowthe kind of content that you
pull and promote and the waythat you grab people.
That's where it's going to makethe difference.
And so to those benefits.
You know and look, every pieceof content is not going to speak
(11:45):
to every single person.
That's why it's so important tobe consistent with the content
that you put out, so that overtime you do kind of touch on as
many different issues as you can.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So then, what do you say to the people that say, oh
well, you know, I want to marketto people that need me.
What am I doing that you know,if I make my marketing so
specific that people see it andthey're like, oh, I don't want
to work with this guy, I don'tneed that guy.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Now, then you just close up shop?
I guess no, but what I mean?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
what I mean is that, like, for example, you know, we
say a lot of times that whenyou're marketing to everybody,
you're marketing to nobody.
Right, like that I can't.
I think that kind of speaksinto the specificity.
Specificity, there it is, youdid it, I did it, I didn't.
I'm gonna replay this back andbe like, oh my god, but anyways,
um, like speaks to that howspecific it gets because, like
(12:41):
you said before, you want torepel the ones that are not who
you want to work with, right?
Speaker 1 (12:46):
yeah, and I mean to look at it every way.
You know, whenever I'm talkingto my clients and whenever we're
trying to figure out what kindof blogs I'm going to write for
them, or whatever, you know, oneof the questions I ask them to
try to get their minds workingis what do you want to attract,
like, what kind of cases do youwant to really push for and take
on right now?
And that's the kind of contentthat you want to put out there.
(13:06):
So again, let's take estateplanning, for example, or no,
let's take family law, forexample.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Sure, we all love family lawyers.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Right.
So not everyone is gonna belooking to get a divorce right,
but maybe someone's looking toadopt a stepchild, or maybe
someone is already divorced andthey need to modify the judgment
after the fact.
Whatever the case is right.
Well, if you want to be knownfor all of those things within
(13:33):
family law, great, all right,let's focus on that.
Right, people are coming to youfor traffic tickets.
We don't want that.
We're not going to talk abouttraffic tickets, so we're not
going to post about that.
But you want to be known as afamily lawyer and let's say you
hate doing divorces becausedivorces bum you out.
I get it.
I mean I don't like that'sEddie's thing, but not me.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
He's on vacation right now, so he can't join us
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
We can talk trash Gosh this would have been the
one episode where Eddie doesn'tmention his divorce.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
And then I mention it for him.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Oh, it's a disease at this point, anyway.
So let's say, let's say youdon't want to be known for
divorces, you want to be knownfor adoptions or helping people
post judgment, whatever the caseis divorces.
You want to be known foradoptions or helping people post
judgment, whatever the case is.
That's the concept that youfocus on and those are the pain
points that you address.
Right, it's like oh, you know,your new blended family, let's,
you know, really make itofficial and let's, you know,
(14:24):
get that adoption process going.
Oh, the original judgmentdoesn't work for you anymore.
You had a change in your career, or you lost your job or
whatever.
Let's work to make it fair foryou again.
Right, so it's, it goes bothways and it does both things at
the same time.
Right, you're, you're repellingthe people that aren't going to
need your services, but you'realso doing a lot to attract the
(14:45):
people that you do want to workwith.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
And would you agree that by doing so?
That's the big differencebetween writing about yourself
versus writing for the reader?
So, for example, like if if youwere to say we've been in
business 20 years, right, thatis writing about yourself,
whereas if you say 20 years offighting doing this, right,
that's writing for the reader.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Right, yeah, it goes back to the story brand concept.
Ah, yes, that we've beenworking with for a while now,
where it's like you are not youthe lawyer, you're not the hero,
it's not about you.
You're Gandalf, though you,you're not the hero, it's not
about you.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
You're Gandalf though .
Speaker 1 (15:21):
You are Gandalf's cool and I know you love that.
I love it.
So, yeah, you're not Frodo,you're Gandalf, and I know that.
You know it's kind of a weirdpush and pull where it's like
you know, you're doing thebranding, you're building
yourself up, you're buildingyour name, so, in a way, yeah,
(15:44):
and what you do, but you have toflip it and then frame it for
your audience.
You know, and it's about, notabout.
It's not about all the greatthings that you've done, it's
about all of the ways that youcan help others.
And I think that language shiftis really important, so that
you know to your point.
You know it's not about oh, $30billion one for our clients.
It's I can help you recoverfrom this accident.
(16:08):
I can go fight the insurancecompany for you.
I can help you get $30 billionMaybe, but yes, but things like
that, where it's you know it'sspeaking directly to those pain
points rather than you know it'snot.
Look at what I've done in thepast, it's here's what I can do
for you in the future.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
So let's talk about calls to action, ctas, because
those are the things that youknow theoretically, those are
the things that are going tomake people want to take action,
right then and there.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
How can you make them like you know, for lack of
better words more powerful?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah.
How can you make them, for lackof better words, more powerful?
Yeah, well, definitely don'tOne.
You don't actually have to havea call to action on every
single post you make on socialmedia.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Because there's a lot of them just informational for
you to know.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And the call to action can also look different.
So, again, you don't have toinclude your phone number on
every single post.
So, like, again, you don't haveto include your phone number on
every single post.
All right, People are not thatignorant to where.
Like it's like oh, I just sawthis post.
He didn't include his phonenumber.
I guess I'll never, you know.
I guess I'll never call no, likethey can click through.
So like, if sharing a blog,invite them to just finish
(17:20):
reading the blog, you know.
And then they're getting onyour website and now, all of a
sudden, they can, you know,download a free resource or sign
up for your newsletter or fillout your contact form that way,
right, you know, it's just so.
I guess, contextually, itdepends on what you're posting
about.
Sure, you know, if you'reposting a snippet to a video,
click through to watch the restof this video or read the rest
of this blog, sign up for ournewsletter, download this
resource, right, it's, it's,here's some information, that's
(17:44):
it.
And then you back off and youcan still have some posts that
are like direct hard calls toaction.
Sure, I mean, we sprinkle thosein all the time, but switch it
up, focus on the value thatyou're providing and peel back a
little bit on.
Call our office, call ouroffice.
Call our office, call ouroffice.
Because, people are going totune that out?
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, Because you also.
You probably don't want to likehave your audience just assume
that you're expecting somethingin return, every single time you
know that you're actuallyhelping out.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, I mean, and you're also fighting an uphill
battle a lot of the time, right,that's true.
Like you know, people justassume that you see their case
and your eyes just turn intodollar signs.
And maybe that's true, maybe ina Donald Duck cartoon, but you
don't want to broadcast that.
Let's change the perceptionhere so that you're not an
(18:37):
ambulance chaser or any of theother negative terms that are
out there or any of the othernegative terms that are out
there.
Focus on providing value andjust participating at least in
the social media world.
Just participating in thesocial media world and just
being part of that community.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Right on.
Thanks for listening to partone of the two-part episode.
Join us next week for thesecond part, where we discuss
words, this or that and we alsotear down some pretty terrible
billboards and they're not sogreat advertising strategies.
We'll see you then.
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