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🎙️ What happens when you’re doing everything “right” but still stuck in survival mode? Brett Trembly opens up about his early struggles as a solo attorney, the mindset shift that changed everything, and the single hire that doubled his income and unlocked real growth. From sleepless nights to leading two thriving businesses, Brett shares the raw truth about what it really takes to scale a law firm—none of which was covered in law school.
📌 Key Takeaways:
- Hiring before you feel “ready” is often the only path to real growth.
- Most solos hit a ceiling not because of lack of work—but because they refuse to delegate.
- Building a real business means installing systems and people that keep things running when you’re not in the room.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have you ever felt like you're on the hamster wheel
at your law firm and you justcan't get off?
There's so many tasks, youremails, your billing, whatever
it is you just can't seem tofind the time to actually grow
your firm.
Well, this week is part one oftwo, where we interviewed Brett
Trembley, a very successful lawfirm owner and a very successful
(00:21):
entrepreneur, who has alsostarted to get staffed up, and
he explains how he goes abouthiring, how he goes about making
sure he gets the right peopleinto his system.
So sit back, relax, take somenotes and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome.
Welcome to the Meet the Expertinterview series.
For those of you who don't knowme, my name is Danny Decker.
I'm a founding partner here atSpotlight Marketing and Branding
.
Many of you probably arefamiliar with us it's probably
how most of you got here.
We do marketing that helps lawfirms get more clients and
better clients, but today we areactually not here to talk about
(00:58):
marketing, which is rare for me.
I spend about 95% of my timeliving and breathing and talking
about marketing, but today weare talking to Brett Tremblay.
Brett Tremblay is the foundingpartner of the Tremblay Law Firm
.
He is the co-founder of GetStaffed Up.
He's the author of a bookcalled 24 Months to Freedom,
(01:19):
which, brett, I think is stillavailable on Amazon.
And all that good stuff,correct, brett, I think, is
still available on Amazon.
And all that good stuff,correct?
Yep absolutely yeah.
So, brett, super excited tohave you here For those of you
kind of in the audience, thanksfor being with us.
I've got some questions andBrett's going to maybe share a
little bit about his backgroundand kind of what he's up to.
(01:41):
We did get some questionssubmitted in advance, but also
would love to take yourquestions kind of as we go.
So if you've got questions,feel free to drop them in the
chat.
I will be keeping an eye onthat and I will bring them to
Brett.
But with that said, brett,let's honestly kind of go back
to the beginning.
(02:01):
Let's talk about the early daysof your law firm.
We obviously met pretty closeto way back then.
So just kind of tell everybodyabout Tremblay Law Firm and
let's start there.
Tell them about the early days.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Sure, I mean, first of all, thanks for having me on.
Second of all, it's always niceto be called an expert.
Within the legal field.
We can't actually callourselves experts unless we're
something called board certified.
So you know, just kind ofjoking, but it's fun when other
people think you're an expert insomething.
So I'll do my best.
(02:37):
Hopefully we get some goodquestions today.
But I graduated law school in2008 from University of Miami.
I worked at a very small lawfirm for two and a half to three
years and I've kind of been anentrepreneur my whole life and
so I always wanted to work formyself and when I kind of saw
that that law firm was, you know, frankly, it wasn't gonna be a
(03:00):
long term solution.
You know, I cut out on my own.
Looking back, I was 29.
So that's pretty young in thelegal space and I think it's
funny.
You know, now I'd be like, ohwow, that's young.
But at the time I didn't feelthat it was young.
I just felt you know like kindof who I was.
So I hustled like crazy and Iwas able to get enough work to
like just barely scrape by andpay the bills, but I was always
(03:23):
worried where the next sort ofpaycheck was going to come from,
which is a small business sortof journey for a lot of people
that are entrepreneurs, you know, outside of the legal field,
inside the legal field, and Ihad a rough two and a half years
.
You know just just hit a wall,sorry, a ceiling, I would say
that I couldn't get past, whichreally wasn't enough for me to
(03:43):
just have breathing room, and itwas rough.
So I would think I was doinggood work and I was hustling
like crazy From 2011, when Istarted, until about 2014, when
things took off.
So that was kind of my earlyyears.
It was like put on a good facepublicly, but privately, you
know, I was very stressed outand just always, you know,
(04:05):
worried.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, I mean, I think most of us who have started
businesses can definitelyidentify with that.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Hey there, jana, here .
I hope you're enjoying thisepisode and we will get right
back to it in a minute.
Listen, out of all the thingsDanny has taught me about
marketing, one of his bestlessons is that the hammer is a
great tool, but it's pretty muchuseless if you need to get a
screw in the wall.
Marketing is the same way.
There are so many tools, butthe ones that make sense for
(04:33):
your law firm depend on yourgoals.
So when you have 30 minutes totalk about strategy and tools,
I'd love to share proven tactics, some free resources and
possible courses of action.
Check the podcast descriptionto reserve the best time for you
, and I look forward to talkingmore.
Now let's get back to theepisode.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You know and I am spending a little bit of time
here focusing on the law firmfor obvious reasons most of the
people in the audience todayeither own or manage a law firm
and obviously it's prettyintegral to your story.
So I want to stick there for aminute and think about sort of
you know again the early daysand let's talk a little bit
about hiring and like what wasyour mindset around you know, at
(05:12):
what point did you start sayingto yourself I need to get some
help?
And like what was your thoughtprocess around actually building
your team, because you startedas a true solo, correct?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, yeah, up until that 2014.
So my thought process aroundhiring was it was an expense
that I wouldn't know how to payfor and I, I couldn't afford it.
So it was like I, I, I'm onlymaking this much, it's barely
paying the bills.
How can I afford to hiresomebody, which now I know, and
(05:41):
hopefully most people now know,but for anyone that's in that
situation, the right persondoesn't cost you money.
They make you money.
So I was like finally convincedto hire someone, and the only
reason I did is because it was alaw student, 30 hours a week,
for a very cheap amount, like$10 an hour.
And I'm like, okay, I got totry this, you know, and I
(06:04):
doubled my, my income, my topline revenue, probably triple my
take home immediately.
And I was like, wow, I, youknow, I guess this works, and so
I will give myself credit.
At that point I didn't do it.
A lot of people do, which islike, hey, I was able to ride a
bicycle and I got from point Ato B faster, but it was just
(06:25):
luck, it's just something thathappened one time.
Clearly, I can't replicate thatand get a faster bike or get
people to ride with me, so I'mjust going to stay where I am.
You know most people and I talka lot about this in my book
because I think when we'respeaking we're projecting on our
past selves, because we'repulling on our experience and
I'm almost like trying toconvince my past self to to get
(06:47):
with it, to say that nicely.
But you know, most people arelike well, when I get X amount
of dollars in my bank account,then I will be able to hire
somebody, which is backwards,because you'll never really get
that money unless you get awindfall or you just suffer,
suffer, suffer.
Maybe you're in the PI worldand then you finally get like a
decent settlement.
(07:07):
But you will get that money ifyou hire someone because you
will then free up your time todo more of the thing that pays
you three, four $500 an hour,not do more of the thing that
pays you 10, $15 an hour.
And when you're working byyourself, like 95% of your day
is all of the little things abusiness needs that is only
(07:28):
going to yield you 10 to $15 anhour.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, no, that makes so much sense.
So so, looking back at it, ifyou could go back and speak to
yourself back in 2011, 2012,.
Would you, would you tellyourself to hire sooner?
Like, do you think inretrospect, did you wait too
long to hire?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Day one like like the only, the only like, true solo
and even this is dangerous isthink about the hot dog stand.
Like there's a guy usuallycould be a girl right, has a car
and buys a little hot dog standwith a hitch, drives a little
hot dog stand to a corner wherethere's a lot of people, right,
that's a business decision,where you take your little hot
(08:05):
dog stand, you buy the hot dogs,you buy the buns, you buy the
ketchup, you buy the propane orwhatever.
You're cooking the hot dogs.
But like it's all you, mostpeople aren't.
Like well, let me hire someoneto run my hot dog stand and then
let me go get four or five andput them on different corners,
cause they're just like they're.
They have a hustle mentality anda lot of people, you know, have
(08:26):
that like.
You know, get like like the,the hustle hustle.
I forget what Damon John callsit, but but for a while it was
like this you know you weregoing to brag about how
miserable you were and bragabout how much you were working
and like that's, that's, that'sjust leaves you in such a poor
place mentally at least it didfor me.
(08:47):
Not everybody's the same, butwhen I start to say like, well,
not everybody's the same.
People like, oh yeah, that'snot me, that's not me, most
people it is.
Though there's very few of uswho can just, you know, not know
where our next paycheck isgoing to come from and actually
not have the stress that comesalong with that, because the
what the stress does over timeis it deteriorates your health,
(09:07):
both mentally and physically,and you don't see it until kind
of like years later.
It's piled up and it's reallyreally bad for you and it's
negative.
So then one of two thingshappen either you realize it and
you're like, okay, I'm going togive up on my dreams, and I'm
to resign to just not not havinga goal other than have my one
(09:29):
assistant and like that's whatmy, my law firm is going to look
like forever.
You know, do I know?
Do I know some people that havelaw firms and it's like one
assistant and they have enoughbusiness over the years where
they're fine, sure, but likewhen you leave town or you go do
something, the work stops, thebusiness stops, the money stops,
(09:50):
like it's not, it's not a realbusiness.
Like you, you just boughtyourself a job and hopefully
your job pays the bills, but youknow it shuts down without you.
And what's just really nice isgetting to the point where
things happen without you.
And what's just really nice isgetting to the point where
things happen without youbecause you put people and
systems in place and you havebuilt a real business which has
(10:11):
marketing, sales and gets workdone without you having to have
your hands in every little partof the business.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, love it man, all right, so so now let's fast
forward a little bit.
So this was like 2014.
Tell us now you know presentday.
Tell us about Trembly Law Firmtoday, like, what does your team
look like?
You know where are you now?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
By the way I'm.
So there is a question and Iwas like roundabout answered
your question about the hot dogstand.
But for everyone else thatdoesn't have a hot dog stand or
that doesn't want to just showup on a corner and make money
and go home and then you don'thave a business because you only
work for those hours, it's dayone you can get a personal or
(10:52):
executive assistant.
Ever, ever and that's anabsolute that I'm not backing
down from run another businessor anything without a personal
assistant or executive assistantto just delegate a lot of the
little things to.
There's just so many littlethings that get in the way of
our day, and it usually shows upin the form of email, and so we
(11:13):
spend all our day just likelittle things, little things,
communication, answering email,email, email and we feel like
we're working hard, but we'rejust on the hamster wheel.
That's going back to the hustlething, like, oh, I'm working
hard, yeah, but you're not.
You're not even an inch aheadof where you were yesterday.
You're just exhausted from thehamster wheel, so you've earned
your sleep.
You probably feel good, butwhen you, when you actually step
(11:35):
back and analyze it, you're,you're stuck in the same place?
Yeah, that makes so much sense.
Yeah, do you want to?
Before the question, do you?
I thought the question, thewebinar chat, was going to be
kind of related to that firsthire, but you tell me you want
to come back.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, we're going to circle back to that, and so
anybody that's listening andLeonard, thanks for the question
Go ahead and drop yourquestions in the chat and we
will get to as many of them aswe can.
I want to spend a little moretime on your story, brett, and
then, and then talk a little bitabout Get Staffed Up to sort of
set the context.
So so go ahead and let's giveus kind of the overview of where
the Tremblay Law Firm is today,cause you've come quite a long
(12:15):
way from 2011.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So we started hiring and then started growing like
crazy and you know, we hit theInc 5,000 three times.
We've got eight attorneys rightnow, close to like 35 staff,
not in like total with the eightattorneys, like I think our
team's about 35.
And you know, a nice littlereputation.
(12:38):
We do great work for people andwe have set ourselves up so if
we ever find the right person toadd another pod, as we call it,
you know, that's kind of how wesee our growth in the future.
But, um, you know, I spend oneday per week now on the law firm
, just just for context, right.
(12:59):
So I have a business that'spretty substantial, pretty
healthy, that I spend 20% of myweek on, and that's awesome and
that was actually give you.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
one of my questions here is like okay, so you're
spending one day a week on thelaw firm.
What are you doing in that day?
Like, what do you spend yourtime on in the law firm?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I meet with our CFO, primarily I'm reviewing numbers,
numbers, numbers, what.
How are the?
Are the pods profitable?
Are people getting their workdone?
You know how many leads did weget last week and last month?
How many consoles did we havelast week, last month, what?
What types of consoles?
Where do they come from?
How many signed up?
You know, just like numbers,numbers, numbers signed up.
You know just like numbers,numbers, numbers, numbers,
(13:38):
numbers.
Because you know, like you,numbers rule the game and you
and you gotta, like they say yougotta know your numbers, but
you also then have to mind themand you have to pay attention.
You have to make decisions basedon the numbers, not on emotions
, and that becomes increasinglyimportant as you grow.
And somebody like me, like ifyou did my culture index or my I
(13:59):
don't know name, one of the1500 like personality
assessments, right, I'm, I'm anexcitable guy, so I can just
like let's get fired up andlet's do something.
I can run on emotion, I cangalvanize the team, but that
only lasts so long, and so I'vehad to, over the years, learn
how to become more, more of anumbers person and so I just
(14:20):
really like we, still we weimplemented EOS, which is an
operating system for anybusiness, and I highly recommend
something like EOS, because I,I, I just I think it's night and
day when you run a business,with and without it, and we have
our leadership team meetingsFriday mornings and then all day
.
Thursdays I'm just meeting withour fractional chief marketing
(14:41):
officer, our CFO, who's fulltime, our office manager, our
intake team, just again checkingnumbers, making decisions,
basically all day long.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Love it, man, very, very cool.
All right, so that's the lawfirm, and so now let's
transition to Get Staffed Up.
Tell us about, kind of, theorigin story Get Staffed Up.
When did you start, kind of?
I actually have a little behindthe scenes into this because I
actually think I was part of aWhatsApp group with you guys
when this conversation started,but talk a little bit about the
(15:11):
origin story of Get Staffed Up.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I can't believe it's been so long ago now Still feels
like we're a brand new company.
But early 2018, my businesspartner, who's an attorney, used
to have a law firm, but he hassince sold his law firm
basically figured out how tohire offshore.
I told him I needed a marketingassistant offshore.
(15:35):
You know just, the talent isvery similar to what you find
here, but the cost is so muchcheaper.
So when you're, when you, whenyou're like making the hiring
decision and you're like shit,you know it's gonna cost me
$4,000 a month because I'm goingto pay them 50 grand.
But then there's the 20% extra.
So now it's like 60 grand.
I got to make 5000.
Like, how am I going to justifythat?
(15:56):
Where's the money going to comefrom?
So if you make another fivegrand per month, you're paying
for that person, but your bottomline is the same.
So you're basically just yourcosts are rising with your
revenue and a lot of people findthemselves like, well, what's
the point of all this?
I'm working harder.
Maybe not working harder, I'mless happy.
I've got more people that relyon me.
(16:22):
So, just to make payrollstressful, and I'm not making
any more money than I was, andwhat we figured out was, like,
man, I think we're ontosomething big.
I mean, we knew from like earlyon this is.
This thing is going to be bigIf we can help lawyers realize
and learn and then help themfind somebody great who speaks
wonderful English, who worksvery hard, who's reliable, who's
loyal and who you've got totrain, of course, like you do
(16:45):
anyone.
But it's going to cost a fourthto maybe a third of what you
pay here.
You can either get three peopleand get three times as much
done, or get one person and savetwo thirds of that money.
And that's when you start to seethe revenue grow, but in your
expenses don't quite grow asmuch with them.
And then you get that breathingroom and then you start to like
, okay, I've got more resourcesnow, which means I can either
(17:07):
hire more people or have abetter life for me and my family
.
I can buy cars that don't breakdown every month and I'm
exaggerating, right, I can sendmy kids to the day school that I
can, and I'm not.
I'm exaggerating, right.
Um, I, I can, you know, send mykids to the day school that I
want to, and those things, andso, um, you know, we just that
was the origin story.
(17:28):
We got together and we werealready in a mastermind together
and and we were having monthlybreakfast and we talked about
doing this business and and wewent for it.
And then, over time, he rampedup more quickly to be full-time
and sell his law firm.
And I think that happened like2019 or 2020, the pandemic hit
and we were like gangbusters.
(17:49):
We just grew like crazy andthen over time, I would go like
half a day and then a day, andthen two days, three days.
I shifted my focus over to thestaffing company because it was
growing so much faster than thelaw firm.
I mean, it's five or six timesbigger than the law firm at this
point.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
Okay, so talk a little bitabout because my understanding
and you know I've been a clientof get staffed up and so have
the opportunity to work with youguys.
You know, one of the things Ithink is really cool is you've
kind of defined I think it'syour like seven, you know seven
(18:26):
roles that you guys help lawfirms build.
Do you want to just give aquick overview, kind of of kind
of your the core offer and andand you know how you guys help
law firms.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I'm just sorry to peek offscreen right, I wasn't sure if I
had a copy of my book righthere, but we play seven
positions, and these are thepositions.
I mean six primarily, and thenone's a little bit of a bonus,
but that I argue in myexperience and now working with
well over a thousand lawyers, ofwhat you need to hire in order
(18:53):
to get yourself to a place whereyou can come up for air and
really have the freedom to sayall right, my business is
running and I can leave a weekand things don't crash and burn
or just stop.
You may not leave for a yearand have this thing run without
you.
That's not realistic yet.
But the first is an executiveassistant, like that is just
(19:13):
that's you.
You have to have somebody thatis kind of your do all early.
And, by the way, I want toacknowledge Rachel Alexander has
a question.
Um, we'll definitely get to it,yep.
Um, good question she put inthere.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, Keep the questions coming, guys.
We are going to get.
We're going to get to them.
Uh, we got.
We got plenty of time withBrett here, so keep dropping
them in the chat.
We will get to them.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, so.
So I'm like I said I would notrun another business without a
really good executive assistant.
I mean like just a life changer.
I have argued many times thatif I only had two hires as a
small law firm owner, my secondone would be a billing assistant
.
One of the just consistentlytragic failures and I don't mean
(19:56):
failure as in a fatal failure,because we can fail every day
and just learn from them but ifwe're honest with ourselves,
that the failure is getting ourinvoices out on time, asking our
clients to pay us what we'veactually billed, asking in a
timely fashion, and doing itwith transparency and honesty,
not like, oh crap, I need money.
I got to get my bills out out,which is what the first, the
(20:18):
only place I work that's how itwas.
It was like a bill this personand bill this person and like
what the heck?
It's not.
Like there's no actual recordof the time, which was, I felt,
was just, you know, dishonest.
But like the studies that cleodoes, they show that lawyers, we
lose like 30% of our time whenwe like, retroactively, try to
(20:40):
remember what we did and thenwhen we don't get the bills out
on time, we feel bad.
So we give big discounts andthe number is usually higher.
So instead of billing someoneevery month or every two weeks,
you send an invoice like threemonths later and you're like
that's a big chunk of money.
So then maybe you delay more oryou just like, screw it, that's
a big chunk of money.
So then maybe you delay more oryou just like screw it, pay me
(21:00):
like 75% of this.
So then we truly only collectlike the true solo attorney,
only like collects 1.2 hours perday of legal work or something
like that, which is justinsanely low.
And that is like my directexperience.
When I said I worked for myselfand I just hit the ceiling, I
couldn't get over about $9,000 amonth.
(21:22):
And when you do the math, youknow, I said it's just goes back
to the numbers.
It just makes so much sensebecause it's about one to 1.2
hours per day and like that'sall I had time to do.
And, by the way, a lot of thatlegal work was nights and
weekends, because you'remiserable, because all day long
fires happen and you'reconstantly putting fires.
So yeah, um, you know, butanyway, again, I, I, I
(21:43):
apparently I refuse to directlyanswer you.
I'm a terrible deponent today.
Um so, but billing assistant,marketing assistant, intake
specialist receptionist, legalassistant, and then those are
like the main six and the bonusone is something called the
client happiness coordinator.
I'm not going to die on thehill of the order, like if
(22:05):
someone's like no, no, no, Ihave to have this person.
Okay, fine, I'm not, that's nota hill I'm going to die on, but
I do have like a recommendedorder in the book that I think
makes the most sense.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
All right, so let's jump intosome of these questions.
We have some questions thatwere submitted by email in
advance, but I'm going to startwith the questions as they're
coming in on the chat.
So Leonard asks how can youdetermine how much you have to
be earning before you hire anassociate or a second paralegal?
(22:33):
So let's start there Brett, howmuch do you have to be earning
before you hire an associate ora second?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
paralegal, I guess for Leonard.
My question is is thiscontingency-based firm or is it
hourly or flat fee?
I don't know if Leonard can popthat in real quick, but I will
say that there's no definitive,definitive answer, numbers wise,
(23:00):
because it depends on the restof your staff and it depends on
you and your time.
So if you have sufficientlyguarded your time, if you're not
spending your time emailingsomeone 10 times back and forth
just trying to set up a lunchmeeting, right, which I mean
just adds up and takes, you know, if you're not doing a motion,
(23:21):
for example, and then hear ading, and then stopping and
going and doing your email,someone's answering your phones.
If someone is, is is like doingyour intake, meaning they're
setting up consultations for youand you have time and you like
to do the legal work.
It's probably higher than ifyou can't stand the legal work
and you have time and you liketo do the legal work.
It's probably higher than ifyou can't stand the legal work
and you want to get out of itfaster.
(23:42):
So it's a combination of bothmonetarily and then your energy.
Managing your energy is superimportant.
So if, like I'll tell you myexperience I was doing about
$30,000 a month in revenue, andI was the only attorney and one
of my advisors at the time waslike you're about to malpractice
Cause, like there was a federaldeadline I had to stay up all
(24:03):
night and try to meet.
But you know, like you can'tmiss federal deadlines, right?
So I was filing at like 1155and and I was like, fine, like I
, I hate this, I don't think I'mready, but I'm going to hire an
attorney anyway.
So I hired an attorney who hadmore experience than me, and not
only did I have enough work forthat attorney, because I just
(24:25):
went like here.
You actually have moreexperience than me.
I think you're better than meAt least that was my hope Right,
and, like you're going to takethe legal work, I'm going to
make sure we're not doing ahorrible job and we're not, you
know, you know, you know have abad work product.
I'm still going to oversee therelationships and all that, but,
like I the litigation anyway,because I held on to the
transactional work but we had somuch more revenue now that we
(24:53):
had one person focusing solelyon that Because, again, when
you're running a business andyou're wearing all these
different hats, you only have somuch time to legal work and
you're wearing all thesedifferent hats, you only have so
much time for legal work.
That was in like May of 2015.
Three months later, I had tohire my second attorney because
we had already hit 60,000 amonth in revenue, right, and it
was like holy crap and there wasplenty of work for both of them
.
That's awesome.
Most firms have enoughrelationships and enough
(25:13):
business that they're just notgetting to right Like there's
way more juice in the squeezethat they're just not getting to
right.
Like there's way more juice inthe squeeze that they're just
not squeezing to have aparalegal and an attorney.
Yeah, and, and and you alsodon't need to make like if
you're going to hire an attorneyfor a hundred thousand.
You're, like you just need tobe able to figure out how to
(25:33):
make an extra 10 grand per monthand, when you do the math, that
attorney is going to pay forthemselves easily.
Yeah, Just by taking over thelegal work for you.
Now, is it that easy to snapyour fingers and you have this
amazing associate?
No, of course not, and that'spart, that's part of Rachel's
question.
But like, yeah, there'straining and there's time, but
it's an investment.
Yeah, If you have the attitudelike it's too much time to train
(25:56):
, then your law firm is going tolook the same 10 years from now
.
Yeah, Wouldn't like take thetime we call it too busy to be
less busy.
Have you ever felt like you're on the hamster wheel
at your law firm and you justcan't get off?
There's so many tasks, youremails, your billing, whatever
it is you just can't seem tofind the time to actually grow
your firm.
Well, this week is part one oftwo, where we interviewed Brett
Trembley, a very successful lawfirm owner and a very successful
(00:21):
entrepreneur, who has alsostarted to get staffed up, and
he explains how he goes abouthiring, how he goes about making
sure he gets the right peopleinto his system.
So sit back, relax, take somenotes and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Welcome.
Welcome to the Meet the Expertinterview series.
For those of you who don't knowme, my name is Danny Decker.
I'm a founding partner here atSpotlight Marketing and Branding
.
Many of you probably arefamiliar with us it's probably
how most of you got here.
We do marketing that helps lawfirms get more clients and
better clients, but today we areactually not here to talk about
(00:58):
marketing, which is rare for me.
I spend about 95% of my timeliving and breathing and talking
about marketing, but today weare talking to Brett Tremblay.
Brett Tremblay is the foundingpartner of the Tremblay Law Firm
.
He is the co-founder of GetStaffed Up.
He's the author of a bookcalled 24 Months to Freedom,
(01:19):
which, brett, I think is stillavailable on Amazon.
And all that good stuff,correct, brett, I think, is
still available on Amazon.
And all that good stuff,correct?
Yep absolutely yeah.
So, brett, super excited tohave you here For those of you
kind of in the audience, thanksfor being with us.
I've got some questions andBrett's going to maybe share a
little bit about his backgroundand kind of what he's up to.
(01:41):
We did get some questionssubmitted in advance, but also
would love to take yourquestions kind of as we go.
So if you've got questions,feel free to drop them in the
chat.
I will be keeping an eye onthat and I will bring them to
Brett.
But with that said, brett,let's honestly kind of go back
to the beginning.
(02:01):
Let's talk about the early daysof your law firm.
We obviously met pretty closeto way back then.
So just kind of tell everybodyabout Tremblay Law Firm and
let's start there.
Tell them about the early days.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Sure, I mean, first of all, thanks for having me on.
Second of all, it's always niceto be called an expert.
Within the legal field.
We can't actually callourselves experts unless we're
something called board certified.
So you know, just kind ofjoking, but it's fun when other
people think you're an expert insomething.
So I'll do my best.
(02:37):
Hopefully we get some goodquestions today.
But I graduated law school in2008 from University of Miami.
I worked at a very small lawfirm for two and a half to three
years and I've kind of been anentrepreneur my whole life and
so I always wanted to work formyself and when I kind of saw
that that law firm was, you know, frankly, it wasn't gonna be a
(03:00):
long term solution.
You know, I cut out on my own.
Looking back, I was 29.
So that's pretty young in thelegal space and I think it's
funny.
You know, now I'd be like, ohwow, that's young.
But at the time I didn't feelthat it was young.
I just felt you know like kindof who I was.
So I hustled like crazy and Iwas able to get enough work to
like just barely scrape by andpay the bills, but I was always
(03:23):
worried where the next sort ofpaycheck was going to come from,
which is a small business sortof journey for a lot of people
that are entrepreneurs, you know, outside of the legal field,
inside the legal field, and Ihad a rough two and a half years
.
You know just just hit a wall,sorry, a ceiling, I would say
that I couldn't get past, whichreally wasn't enough for me to
(03:43):
just have breathing room, and itwas rough.
So I would think I was doinggood work and I was hustling
like crazy From 2011, when Istarted, until about 2014, when
things took off.
So that was kind of my earlyyears.
It was like put on a good facepublicly, but privately, you
know, I was very stressed outand just always, you know,
(04:05):
worried.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, I mean, I think most of us who have started
businesses can definitelyidentify with that.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Hey there, jana, here .
I hope you're enjoying thisepisode and we will get right
back to it in a minute.
Listen, out of all the thingsDanny has taught me about
marketing, one of his bestlessons is that the hammer is a
great tool, but it's pretty muchuseless if you need to get a
screw in the wall.
Marketing is the same way.
There are so many tools, butthe ones that make sense for
(04:33):
your law firm depend on yourgoals.
So when you have 30 minutes totalk about strategy and tools,
I'd love to share proven tactics, some free resources and
possible courses of action.
Check the podcast descriptionto reserve the best time for you
, and I look forward to talkingmore.
Now let's get back to theepisode.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You know and I am spending a little bit of time
here focusing on the law firmfor obvious reasons most of the
people in the audience todayeither own or manage a law firm
and obviously it's prettyintegral to your story.
So I want to stick there for aminute and think about sort of
you know again the early daysand let's talk a little bit
about hiring and like what wasyour mindset around you know, at
(05:12):
what point did you start sayingto yourself I need to get some
help?
And like what was your thoughtprocess around actually building
your team, because you startedas a true solo, correct?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yeah, yeah, up until that 2014.
So my thought process aroundhiring was it was an expense
that I wouldn't know how to payfor and I, I couldn't afford it.
So it was like I, I, I'm onlymaking this much, it's barely
paying the bills.
How can I afford to hiresomebody, which now I know, and
(05:41):
hopefully most people now know,but for anyone that's in that
situation, the right persondoesn't cost you money.
They make you money.
So I was like finally convincedto hire someone, and the only
reason I did is because it was alaw student, 30 hours a week,
for a very cheap amount, like$10 an hour.
And I'm like, okay, I got totry this, you know, and I
(06:04):
doubled my, my income, my topline revenue, probably triple my
take home immediately.
And I was like, wow, I, youknow, I guess this works, and so
I will give myself credit.
At that point I didn't do it.
A lot of people do, which islike, hey, I was able to ride a
bicycle and I got from point Ato B faster, but it was just
(06:25):
luck, it's just something thathappened one time.
Clearly, I can't replicate thatand get a faster bike or get
people to ride with me, so I'mjust going to stay where I am.
You know most people and I talka lot about this in my book
because I think when we'respeaking we're projecting on our
past selves, because we'repulling on our experience and
I'm almost like trying toconvince my past self to to get
(06:47):
with it, to say that nicely.
But you know, most people arelike well, when I get X amount
of dollars in my bank account,then I will be able to hire
somebody, which is backwards,because you'll never really get
that money unless you get awindfall or you just suffer,
suffer, suffer.
Maybe you're in the PI worldand then you finally get like a
decent settlement.
(07:07):
But you will get that money ifyou hire someone because you
will then free up your time todo more of the thing that pays
you three, four $500 an hour,not do more of the thing that
pays you 10, $15 an hour.
And when you're working byyourself, like 95% of your day
is all of the little things abusiness needs that is only
(07:28):
going to yield you 10 to $15 anhour.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, no, that makes so much sense.
So so, looking back at it, ifyou could go back and speak to
yourself back in 2011, 2012,.
Would you, would you tellyourself to hire sooner?
Like, do you think inretrospect, did you wait too
long to hire?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Day one like like the only, the only like, true solo
and even this is dangerous isthink about the hot dog stand.
Like there's a guy usuallycould be a girl right, has a car
and buys a little hot dog standwith a hitch, drives a little
hot dog stand to a corner wherethere's a lot of people, right,
that's a business decision,where you take your little hot
(08:05):
dog stand, you buy the hot dogs,you buy the buns, you buy the
ketchup, you buy the propane orwhatever.
You're cooking the hot dogs.
But like it's all you, mostpeople aren't.
Like well, let me hire someoneto run my hot dog stand and then
let me go get four or five andput them on different corners,
cause they're just like they're.
They have a hustle mentality anda lot of people, you know, have
(08:26):
that like.
You know, get like like the,the hustle hustle.
I forget what Damon John callsit, but but for a while it was
like this you know you weregoing to brag about how
miserable you were and bragabout how much you were working
and like that's, that's, that'sjust leaves you in such a poor
place mentally at least it didfor me.
(08:47):
Not everybody's the same, butwhen I start to say like, well,
not everybody's the same.
People like, oh yeah, that'snot me, that's not me, most
people it is.
Though there's very few of uswho can just, you know, not know
where our next paycheck isgoing to come from and actually
not have the stress that comesalong with that, because the
what the stress does over timeis it deteriorates your health,
(09:07):
both mentally and physically,and you don't see it until kind
of like years later.
It's piled up and it's reallyreally bad for you and it's
negative.
So then one of two thingshappen either you realize it and
you're like, okay, I'm going togive up on my dreams, and I'm
to resign to just not not havinga goal other than have my one
(09:29):
assistant and like that's whatmy, my law firm is going to look
like forever.
You know, do I know?
Do I know some people that havelaw firms and it's like one
assistant and they have enoughbusiness over the years where
they're fine, sure, but likewhen you leave town or you go do
something, the work stops, thebusiness stops, the money stops,
(09:50):
like it's not, it's not a realbusiness.
Like you, you just boughtyourself a job and hopefully
your job pays the bills, but youknow it shuts down without you.
And what's just really nice isgetting to the point where
things happen without you.
And what's just really nice isgetting to the point where
things happen without youbecause you put people and
systems in place and you havebuilt a real business which has
(10:11):
marketing, sales and gets workdone without you having to have
your hands in every little partof the business.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, love it man, all right, so so now let's fast
forward a little bit.
So this was like 2014.
Tell us now you know presentday.
Tell us about Trembly Law Firmtoday, like, what does your team
look like?
You know where are you now?
Speaker 3 (10:31):
By the way I'm.
So there is a question and Iwas like roundabout answered
your question about the hot dogstand.
But for everyone else thatdoesn't have a hot dog stand or
that doesn't want to just showup on a corner and make money
and go home and then you don'thave a business because you only
work for those hours, it's dayone you can get a personal or
(10:52):
executive assistant.
Ever, ever and that's anabsolute that I'm not backing
down from run another businessor anything without a personal
assistant or executive assistantto just delegate a lot of the
little things to.
There's just so many littlethings that get in the way of
our day, and it usually shows upin the form of email, and so we
(11:13):
spend all our day just likelittle things, little things,
communication, answering email,email, email and we feel like
we're working hard, but we'rejust on the hamster wheel.
That's going back to the hustlething, like, oh, I'm working
hard, yeah, but you're not.
You're not even an inch aheadof where you were yesterday.
You're just exhausted from thehamster wheel, so you've earned
your sleep.
You probably feel good, butwhen you, when you actually step
(11:35):
back and analyze it, you're,you're stuck in the same place?
Yeah, that makes so much sense.
Yeah, do you want to?
Before the question, do you?
I thought the question, thewebinar chat, was going to be
kind of related to that firsthire, but you tell me you want
to come back.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, we're going to circle back to that, and so
anybody that's listening andLeonard, thanks for the question
Go ahead and drop yourquestions in the chat and we
will get to as many of them aswe can.
I want to spend a little moretime on your story, brett, and
then, and then talk a little bitabout Get Staffed Up to sort of
set the context.
So so go ahead and let's giveus kind of the overview of where
the Tremblay Law Firm is today,cause you've come quite a long
(12:15):
way from 2011.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So we started hiring and then started growing like
crazy and you know, we hit theInc 5,000 three times.
We've got eight attorneys rightnow, close to like 35 staff,
not in like total with the eightattorneys, like I think our
team's about 35.
And you know, a nice littlereputation.
(12:38):
We do great work for people andwe have set ourselves up so if
we ever find the right person toadd another pod, as we call it,
you know, that's kind of how wesee our growth in the future.
But, um, you know, I spend oneday per week now on the law firm
, just just for context, right.
(12:59):
So I have a business that'spretty substantial, pretty
healthy, that I spend 20% of myweek on, and that's awesome and
that was actually give you.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
one of my questions here is like okay, so you're
spending one day a week on thelaw firm.
What are you doing in that day?
Like, what do you spend yourtime on in the law firm?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I meet with our CFO, primarily I'm reviewing numbers,
numbers, numbers, what.
How are the?
Are the pods profitable?
Are people getting their workdone?
You know how many leads did weget last week and last month?
How many consoles did we havelast week, last month, what?
What types of consoles?
Where do they come from?
How many signed up?
You know, just like numbers,numbers, numbers signed up.
You know just like numbers,numbers, numbers, numbers,
(13:38):
numbers.
Because you know, like you,numbers rule the game and you
and you gotta, like they say yougotta know your numbers, but
you also then have to mind themand you have to pay attention.
You have to make decisions basedon the numbers, not on emotions
, and that becomes increasinglyimportant as you grow.
And somebody like me, like ifyou did my culture index or my I
(13:59):
don't know name, one of the1500 like personality
assessments, right, I'm, I'm anexcitable guy, so I can just
like let's get fired up andlet's do something.
I can run on emotion, I cangalvanize the team, but that
only lasts so long, and so I'vehad to, over the years, learn
how to become more, more of anumbers person and so I just
(14:20):
really like we, still we weimplemented EOS, which is an
operating system for anybusiness, and I highly recommend
something like EOS, because I,I, I just I think it's night and
day when you run a business,with and without it, and we have
our leadership team meetingsFriday mornings and then all day
.
Thursdays I'm just meeting withour fractional chief marketing
(14:41):
officer, our CFO, who's fulltime, our office manager, our
intake team, just again checkingnumbers, making decisions,
basically all day long.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Love it, man, very, very cool.
All right, so that's the lawfirm, and so now let's
transition to Get Staffed Up.
Tell us about, kind of, theorigin story Get Staffed Up.
When did you start, kind of?
I actually have a little behindthe scenes into this because I
actually think I was part of aWhatsApp group with you guys
when this conversation started,but talk a little bit about the
(15:11):
origin story of Get Staffed Up.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I can't believe it's been so long ago now Still feels
like we're a brand new company.
But early 2018, my businesspartner, who's an attorney, used
to have a law firm, but he hassince sold his law firm
basically figured out how tohire offshore.
I told him I needed a marketingassistant offshore.
(15:35):
You know just, the talent isvery similar to what you find
here, but the cost is so muchcheaper.
So when you're, when you, whenyou're like making the hiring
decision and you're like shit,you know it's gonna cost me
$4,000 a month because I'm goingto pay them 50 grand.
But then there's the 20% extra.
So now it's like 60 grand.
I got to make 5000.
Like, how am I going to justifythat?
(15:56):
Where's the money going to comefrom?
So if you make another fivegrand per month, you're paying
for that person, but your bottomline is the same.
So you're basically just yourcosts are rising with your
revenue and a lot of people findthemselves like, well, what's
the point of all this?
I'm working harder.
Maybe not working harder, I'mless happy.
I've got more people that relyon me.
(16:22):
So, just to make payrollstressful, and I'm not making
any more money than I was, andwhat we figured out was, like,
man, I think we're ontosomething big.
I mean, we knew from like earlyon this is.
This thing is going to be bigIf we can help lawyers realize
and learn and then help themfind somebody great who speaks
wonderful English, who worksvery hard, who's reliable, who's
loyal and who you've got totrain, of course, like you do
(16:45):
anyone.
But it's going to cost a fourthto maybe a third of what you
pay here.
You can either get three peopleand get three times as much
done, or get one person and savetwo thirds of that money.
And that's when you start to seethe revenue grow, but in your
expenses don't quite grow asmuch with them.
And then you get that breathingroom and then you start to like
, okay, I've got more resourcesnow, which means I can either
(17:07):
hire more people or have abetter life for me and my family
.
I can buy cars that don't breakdown every month and I'm
exaggerating, right, I can sendmy kids to the day school that I
can, and I'm not.
I'm exaggerating, right.
Um, I, I can, you know, send mykids to the day school that I
want to, and those things, andso, um, you know, we just that
was the origin story.
(17:28):
We got together and we werealready in a mastermind together
and and we were having monthlybreakfast and we talked about
doing this business and and wewent for it.
And then, over time, he rampedup more quickly to be full-time
and sell his law firm.
And I think that happened like2019 or 2020, the pandemic hit
and we were like gangbusters.
(17:49):
We just grew like crazy andthen over time, I would go like
half a day and then a day, andthen two days, three days.
I shifted my focus over to thestaffing company because it was
growing so much faster than thelaw firm.
I mean, it's five or six timesbigger than the law firm at this
point.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, that's awesome, man.
Okay, so talk a little bitabout because my understanding
and you know I've been a clientof get staffed up and so have
the opportunity to work with youguys.
You know, one of the things Ithink is really cool is you've
kind of defined I think it'syour like seven, you know seven
(18:26):
roles that you guys help lawfirms build.
Do you want to just give aquick overview, kind of of kind
of your the core offer and andand you know how you guys help
law firms.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I'm just sorry to peek offscreen right, I wasn't sure if I
had a copy of my book righthere, but we play seven
positions, and these are thepositions.
I mean six primarily, and thenone's a little bit of a bonus,
but that I argue in myexperience and now working with
well over a thousand lawyers, ofwhat you need to hire in order
(18:53):
to get yourself to a place whereyou can come up for air and
really have the freedom to sayall right, my business is
running and I can leave a weekand things don't crash and burn
or just stop.
You may not leave for a yearand have this thing run without
you.
That's not realistic yet.
But the first is an executiveassistant, like that is just
(19:13):
that's you.
You have to have somebody thatis kind of your do all early.
And, by the way, I want toacknowledge Rachel Alexander has
a question.
Um, we'll definitely get to it,yep.
Um, good question she put inthere.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, Keep the questions coming, guys.
We are going to get.
We're going to get to them.
Uh, we got.
We got plenty of time withBrett here, so keep dropping
them in the chat.
We will get to them.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, so.
So I'm like I said I would notrun another business without a
really good executive assistant.
I mean like just a life changer.
I have argued many times thatif I only had two hires as a
small law firm owner, my secondone would be a billing assistant
.
One of the just consistentlytragic failures and I don't mean
(19:56):
failure as in a fatal failure,because we can fail every day
and just learn from them but ifwe're honest with ourselves,
that the failure is getting ourinvoices out on time, asking our
clients to pay us what we'veactually billed, asking in a
timely fashion, and doing itwith transparency and honesty,
not like, oh crap, I need money.
I got to get my bills out out,which is what the first, the
(20:18):
only place I work that's how itwas.
It was like a bill this personand bill this person and like
what the heck?
It's not.
Like there's no actual recordof the time, which was, I felt,
was just, you know, dishonest.
But like the studies that cleodoes, they show that lawyers, we
lose like 30% of our time whenwe like, retroactively, try to
(20:40):
remember what we did and thenwhen we don't get the bills out
on time, we feel bad.
So we give big discounts andthe number is usually higher.
So instead of billing someoneevery month or every two weeks,
you send an invoice like threemonths later and you're like
that's a big chunk of money.
So then maybe you delay more oryou just like, screw it, that's
a big chunk of money.
So then maybe you delay more oryou just like screw it, pay me
(21:00):
like 75% of this.
So then we truly only collectlike the true solo attorney,
only like collects 1.2 hours perday of legal work or something
like that, which is justinsanely low.
And that is like my directexperience.
When I said I worked for myselfand I just hit the ceiling, I
couldn't get over about $9,000 amonth.
(21:22):
And when you do the math, youknow, I said it's just goes back
to the numbers.
It just makes so much sensebecause it's about one to 1.2
hours per day and like that'sall I had time to do.
And, by the way, a lot of thatlegal work was nights and
weekends, because you'remiserable, because all day long
fires happen and you'reconstantly putting fires.
So yeah, um, you know, butanyway, again, I, I, I
(21:43):
apparently I refuse to directlyanswer you.
I'm a terrible deponent today.
Um so, but billing assistant,marketing assistant, intake
specialist receptionist, legalassistant, and then those are
like the main six and the bonusone is something called the
client happiness coordinator.
I'm not going to die on thehill of the order, like if
(22:05):
someone's like no, no, no, Ihave to have this person.
Okay, fine, I'm not, that's nota hill I'm going to die on, but
I do have like a recommendedorder in the book that I think
makes the most sense.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
All right, so let's jump intosome of these questions.
We have some questions thatwere submitted by email in
advance, but I'm going to startwith the questions as they're
coming in on the chat.
So Leonard asks how can youdetermine how much you have to
be earning before you hire anassociate or a second paralegal?
(22:33):
So let's start there Brett, howmuch do you have to be earning
before you hire an associate ora second?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
paralegal, I guess for Leonard.
My question is is thiscontingency-based firm or is it
hourly or flat fee?
I don't know if Leonard can popthat in real quick, but I will
say that there's no definitive,definitive answer, numbers wise,
(23:00):
because it depends on the restof your staff and it depends on
you and your time.
So if you have sufficientlyguarded your time, if you're not
spending your time emailingsomeone 10 times back and forth
just trying to set up a lunchmeeting, right, which I mean
just adds up and takes, you know, if you're not doing a motion,
(23:21):
for example, and then hear ading, and then stopping and
going and doing your email,someone's answering your phones.
If someone is, is is like doingyour intake, meaning they're
setting up consultations for youand you have time and you like
to do the legal work.
It's probably higher than ifyou can't stand the legal work
and you have time and you liketo do the legal work.
It's probably higher than ifyou can't stand the legal work
and you want to get out of itfaster.
(23:42):
So it's a combination of bothmonetarily and then your energy.
Managing your energy is superimportant.
So if, like I'll tell you myexperience I was doing about
$30,000 a month in revenue, andI was the only attorney and one
of my advisors at the time waslike you're about to malpractice
Cause, like there was a federaldeadline I had to stay up all
(24:03):
night and try to meet.
But you know, like you can'tmiss federal deadlines, right?
So I was filing at like 1155and and I was like, fine, like I
, I hate this, I don't think I'mready, but I'm going to hire an
attorney anyway.
So I hired an attorney who hadmore experience than me, and not
only did I have enough work forthat attorney, because I just
(24:25):
went like here.
You actually have moreexperience than me.
I think you're better than meAt least that was my hope Right,
and, like you're going to takethe legal work, I'm going to
make sure we're not doing ahorrible job and we're not, you
know, you know, you know have abad work product.
I'm still going to oversee therelationships and all that, but,
like I the litigation anyway,because I held on to the
transactional work but we had somuch more revenue now that we
(24:53):
had one person focusing solelyon that Because, again, when
you're running a business andyou're wearing all these
different hats, you only have somuch time to legal work and
you're wearing all thesedifferent hats, you only have so
much time for legal work.
That was in like May of 2015.
Three months later, I had tohire my second attorney because
we had already hit 60,000 amonth in revenue, right, and it
was like holy crap and there wasplenty of work for both of them
.
That's awesome.
Most firms have enoughrelationships and enough
(25:13):
business that they're just notgetting to right Like there's
way more juice in the squeezethat they're just not getting to
right.
Like there's way more juice inthe squeeze that they're just
not squeezing to have aparalegal and an attorney.
Yeah, and, and and you alsodon't need to make like if
you're going to hire an attorneyfor a hundred thousand.
You're, like you just need tobe able to figure out how to
(25:33):
make an extra 10 grand per monthand, when you do the math, that
attorney is going to pay forthemselves easily.
Yeah, Just by taking over thelegal work for you.
Now, is it that easy to snapyour fingers and you have this
amazing associate?
No, of course not, and that'spart, that's part of Rachel's
question.
But like, yeah, there'straining and there's time, but
it's an investment.
Yeah, If you have the attitudelike it's too much time to train
(25:56):
, then your law firm is going tolook the same 10 years from now
.
Yeah, Wouldn't like take thetime we call it too busy to be
less busy.
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