April 25, 2025 • 32 mins
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💡 What if the difference between getting ignored and getting a client came down to one emotion? In this episode, Mike and Eddie break down the emotional science behind why people take action—whether it's clicking a digital ad, booking a consultation, or choosing your firm over a competitor. Learn how empathy, repetition, and honest storytelling are the secret weapons in your small firm’s marketing arsenal.
đź“Ś Key Takeaways
- 75% of failed launches have one thing in common: they ignored the customer’s emotional world.
- Empathy is more powerful than accolades when building trust online.
- Social proof and repetition aren’t optional—they’re marketing non-negotiables.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
three and four launches.
So 75 percent of launches ofnew products failed when they
ignored the customer's world.
So, basically, when theycouldn't tap into their
customers emotions, when theycouldn't, you know, get
basically portray that withintheir marketing, their new
(00:21):
products failed.
Welcome to the law FirmMarketing Minute, the go-to
podcast for solo and small lawfirms who want to level up.
I'm your host, smyke, and I'mexcited for you to join me this
episode.
All right, without further ado,let's dive in.
Hello everyone, welcome back tothe Law Firm Marketing Minute.
(00:43):
As always, I'm your host, smike, and I'm the occasional Eddie.
The occasional Eddie, yeah, andtoday we are diving deep into
the psychology of marketing.
The title is basically whatgets people to click, basically
(01:04):
what makes people click.
It's a little play on wordsthere.
You know what makes people tick, but instead it's what makes
people click.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's hysterical and I hope everyone thinks it's as
funny as I do.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So today we're going over very much the things that
go behind it when you putsomething out in your marketing,
you know, when you have a callto action, when you have a
landing page or a digital ad ora social media post or a blog,
all the things that kind of gobehind the scenes, that go on
behind the scenes.
And Eddie and I were actuallytalking a little bit earlier
(01:40):
today.
We were just commenting abouthow it's really cool, at least
from our standpoint, oh yeah,when you're able to create
something and it gets somebodyto take an action.
That's just like it's.
It's a cool, cool feeling.
I mean it.
I I don't mean to sound, uh,you know, like I'm manipulative
or anything like that, but likeit's just it's.
(02:02):
It's interesting to see how,when you play with certain words
, you play with certain designsor something like that, but like
it's just it's interesting tosee how, when you play with
certain words, you play withcertain designs or something
like that, they have an effect.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
And it's definitely important to notice that this is
not, like you said,manipulative.
This is when we talk about,like the psychology or the
reason why someone takes anaction, or why someone downloads
a resource or why someonedecides to book a consultation.
None of the things we'retalking about have anything to
do with psychologicalmanipulation.
I always hear people like, oh,ads don't work on me, ads don't
work on me.
(02:30):
I mean, I am the 1%.
Yeah, they don't work on me.
I know what you're doing and Imean listen, I know the
background of ads, I've studiedthem for a long time and they
still work on me.
I mean, I don't, those are theones I keep, those are the ones
I study.
The thing is the the key hereis being honest, is being like
so that the root cause ofanything that's going to drive a
(02:51):
successful action is going tobe rooted in honesty.
So don't mistake this as a, asa way of manipulating people or
tricking them into getting themCause you might get a, you might
get one phone call out of that,but you won't get two and
they'll never come back to seeyou again.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, and I think where we're starting here is
really the broad sense of peopletaking action and honestly I'm
not sure who coined this, but itmakes so much sense is that
people make decisions based onemotion and then they use logic,
justify by logic.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
To justify it.
I heard a buddy and I'm aCrossFit junkieie and a kid said
this in the gym the other day.
He's like he wanted to buy aRolex Submariner and if you love
watches, I highly recommend aRolex Submariner but definitely
goes to like 10, 12 grand.
And he was talking about howbadly he wanted this Rolex and I
get it.
And he's like, yeah, but it'lllast forever.
And I was like, okay, there'ssomeone who really, really wants
(03:46):
that watch.
And right there, justified itby the logic of saying it would
last forever.
I mean, I'm going to point outit costs $750 to $1,000 to
service it every five to 10years, but he justified it by
logic.
He justified it by saying it'sgoing to last forever, yeah, so
yeah, they definitely.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It's 100% true and there's different aspects that
kind of go into that.
Because, for example, whenwe're talking about using
emotion to kind of draw peoplein or or get them to make a
decision, it's in your ads.
It might play off with like athe type of image that you use
for your ads, right?
Like people seeing, generallyspeaking people, seeing other
(04:24):
people in some sort of state ofemotion that they can connect to
, is very powerful.
Picture of somebody goingthrough a tough time maybe it's
an ad for, you know, a woman whoneed to get out of abusive
relationships, right?
So maybe something in familylaw, and if someone was going
through this and they'rescrolling on, say, social media
(04:48):
and an image of a woman likebroken down or you know, just
like at the end of a rope withthe right kind of copy and that
sort of thing like that can bevery powerful, even though they
had no idea who that woman is,could just be some sort of stock
photo.
It's that.
It's that human to human kindof connection right.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So here's the scientific explanation of what
mike is talking about.
I mean so, like I, I, I am acopywriting nerd emphasis on
nerd nerd like I love sales copy, I, I, I this is% of it of
writing a sales copy is is thethe strategy and mindset and
what I go into it and theanalysis of what I'm writing and
(05:30):
who I'm writing it to.
So, with that in mind, thefirst step and this is going to
play into what Mike's talkingabout the first step you have to
think to is the universaldesire of the person you're
talking to.
So there are universal desiresin the world.
You cannot create them.
They cannot be created.
They cannot be created.
They cannot be created.
Can they be created?
They cannot be created.
(05:50):
Understood, well played.
So there, I mean these, whatwe're talking about universal
desires, the desire to be rich,the desire to be healthy, the
desire to have a better car thanyour neighbor, the desire to
leave a lasting legacy, thedesire to have your family feel
protected.
I mean these are all sort ofuniversal desires and they vary
(06:10):
by intensity, they vary bystaying power and they vary by
scope of how large they are.
So what all we're trying to dowith any sort of ad or any sort
of ad copy or sales copy emailis you're trying to tap into
that universal desire.
Notice, I didn't say anythingabout your education, about what
you've accomplished, aboutanything that's you, you, you.
(06:31):
We can talk about that in adifferent book, but at the
moment I'm talking aboutuniversal desire, figuring out
what desire do the people havethat you're trying to reach?
And, granted, there are goingto be multiple desires.
You got to pick the best one,pick the one that's the most
intense, that's going to stayaround for the longest and it's
going to reach the most amountof people.
(06:51):
So they said we're tapping indesire, you're speaking to
something that already exists inhuman beings, and what Mike's
talking about is that image.
Is that image of feelingprotected, the image of feeling
safe, the image of the feelingof being heard?
I mean, these are all thingsthat resonate with people
(07:12):
immediately, and copy connectsthe desire to you, it bridges
the gap and that's what we'retalking about in, like the
scientific element of emotionand desire.
That is the key to any sort ofsuccessful ad.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
And if we're talking about a very specific emotion,
empathy is right up top.
There was a report done byNielsen it's called the Nielsen
Breakthrough Innovation ReportRight on for product success, um
(07:42):
, and they found that three andfour launches so 75 of launches
of new products, failed whenthey ignored the customer's
world.
So, basically, when theycouldn't tap into their
customers emotions, when theycouldn't, you know, get
basically portray that withintheir marketing, their new
(08:05):
product failed.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
So I'm just going to keep referencing books here
because I'm not smart enough tosay anything original on my own.
But in 1923, this book calledScientific Advertising came out
by Claude Hopkins.
And Claude Hopkins said exactlythat In 1923, I mean.
So a lot of the books I read oncopywriting are 60, 70 years
old, in this case over 100.
(08:29):
The mediums have changed, theway we speak to these things
have changed, but the root andthe understanding of them
customer is inherently selfish.
They want something that'sgoing to better themselves,
that's going to advance themforward.
(08:50):
I mean they don't care aboutyour hours, they don't care
about your profit margin.
They want a product or servicethat is going to enhance their
lives for the better.
So, yes, if you cannot speakand that is empathy you're
taking yourself out of yoursituation and putting them in
theirs and being able to tapinto that desire, into that sort
of element that leads people tosay yes, you understand what my
(09:12):
problem is.
I mean modern day.
We talk about story branding,making the client the hero of
the story.
That's the same thing as whatClaude Hopkins was saying in
1923.
He was just saying you have totake yourself out of you and put
it into the client, into thecustomer, and give them what
they want.
They don't care about what youare, they just want to know that
you can solve their problem.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, and it gets even deeper than just like your
ads, right, Like, even whenpeople want to look into you as
a law firm.
Right to look into you as a lawfirm, right, Like, going to
your website, going to yoursocial media, having the content
on there.
That isn't really an ad, but itstill has that emphasis on
empathy like for, or it has, ithas that connection.
(10:01):
For example, there's anotherstat that 97% of consumers read
reviews before they purchaseanything.
Right, and that's across theboard.
But heck, 97% is a pretty bignumber.
So I imagine that it's verysimilar within the legal
industry specifically.
That's all.
Referral is right.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
An in-person review, a live review in real time that
you can talk to someone youtrust.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah.
So, like we're talking aboutwith digital ads, where it's
like you know, you choose, likethe appropriate copy, you choose
the appropriate image to use toreally tap into the empathy,
but also your social mediacontent, you could do the same,
very similar.
But even when it comes to yourlike, your website, right, like,
even going to like something asminute or what seems to be
minute, like an about page, like, hey, this is our story as a
(10:42):
law firm.
This is why we got into what wedo, like that's a perfect place
to express and show someempathy, because I mean, heck,
maybe you're a lawyer who youknow got into family law because
you grew up in you know ahousehold that was broken and
you wanted to make sure thatpeople didn't have to experience
that, you know.
(11:02):
Maybe you wanted to make surethat you know people experience
that.
Maybe you wanted to make surethat people had that control in
their lives that maybe youdidn't see growing up.
It's that kind of thing, puttingit into your out page,
something that many, many peopleoverlook, many, many people
overlook because they're justlike oh, it's just um, I
graduated from blah blah blahand I uh, you know, I studied
(11:24):
under blah blah blah and it'slike okay, like that's great,
like accolades are great.
You know people want to knowthat you you're good at what you
do well.
So at the same time it's goingback to that back end kind of
thing with the empathy.
You can use that as theopportunity to really strengthen
, like tell them what is yourstory, how do you connect with
them?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I've had two really good lawyers in my life.
I have no idea where either oneof them went to school.
I mean and I would refer themto anybody I have no idea what
they're.
I mean, just I just I got thembased on referrals and based on
past successes and I have noidea where they went to school.
Actually, I lied, I think oneof them went to Iowa, but no, I
cannot say that for certain.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Wow, so he's uncertain, uncertain it's still
technically just-.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
The other element of that is not only recognizing
that you need to do that, butyou need to do it over and over
and over and over again.
I mean we have so many studieswhere we're looking at.
I mean this is just somethinglike in-house when we have
landing pages.
Mike creates landing pages.
A lot of the times I create thecopy.
We're driving people to alanding page and you'll see that
people will make it to thelanding page multiple times
(12:30):
before filling it out.
I mean they read the copy, theyread the ad, they made it
through the ad.
They went to a resource.
The copy they read the ad, theymade it through the ad.
They went to a resource.
They saw it, they liked it ordidn't like it, but they didn't
fill it out and they'll comeback again.
I mean a lot of times we'relooking at talking about people.
(12:50):
Like we have to remind themalmost three times and that's
for people who are interested.
So it's a repetition of who youare and you're continually
putting yourself out.
There.
Is that messaging?
It's not good enough to stab iton your about page.
It has to be through yourcontent, it has to be through
your videos, it has to show upin your blogs, your newsletters,
and it's just a constantrepetition of reminder.
Again, the repetition issomething that came from the
Claude Hoffman's book in 1923.
(13:11):
He was talking about howfrequently you have to be able
to address something and hitthat same note over and over.
I always think of it kind oflike punk rock.
I mean, you listen to a punkrock song, they hit that
da-da-da-da-da-da.
They say that same note, wailit over and over and over again.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Same thing with marketing You're trying to get
the same message and howfrequently can you get that and
reinforce it?
Yeah, and to kind of touch onwhat you said there about you
know, hey, the people thatalready might have an idea of
what you do, you know you needto repetition even three times
for them to take an action.
That's for people who alreadyhave an idea of what you do.
So, when we're talking aboutpeople who are like a cold
(13:50):
audience, right, people have noidea what you do, people have no
idea who you are.
Like, don't be discouraged bylow numbers.
Like, celebrate the wins, right, because you know there might
be few of them, but heck, that's, that's a win with a cold
audience is terrific.
Like, I, I, I, I put theequivalency to for me, when I'm
(14:12):
on social media and I, I, I geta new follower and they just
seem to be very active with uson social media.
Like, for me, that's a huge win.
It's one person, right, that'sone account, but it's a huge win
for me because that wassomebody who had no idea who we
were before, absolutely.
(14:32):
And now, all of a sudden,they're very engaged with what
they do, they know what we doand they're very educated about
it.
So for me, that's a huge winbecause, even if they don't
become a client, they could opendoors for others.
Because we're talking aboutsocial proof.
You brought up referralsearlier.
Referrals are huge for lawfirms.
The social proof is like out ofthis world.
With referrals, you say, hey,you have this problem, this guy
(14:54):
or this gal solved it for me.
Go, you have this problem, thisguy or this gal solved it for
me.
Go to that person.
That's huge, right so Send itto my friend.
So social proof is somethingthat should definitely be worked
into, especially for law firms.
Unfortunately, there has beenthis mainstream idea that
lawyers are just not trustworthy.
(15:15):
I don't know where that kind ofcame from.
They're right up there withadvertisers.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
We're up there with you, don't worry, we are with
you.
I mean, we used to.
So, yeah, there's a barrierthere that definitely needs to
come down.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, so social proof is a terrific, terrific way to
do so.
I mean, I said before that that97 of consumers read reviews
before they buy anything and yes, that's across the board.
But heck, like having havingyour, your, your, uh
testimonials just up on yourwebsite, or even putting your
testimonials up on your socialmedia.
(15:52):
You know, having someone guestif they want to, obviously you
know guess if they want to,obviously you know if they want
to be anonymous, obviously youcan't do anything about that.
But you know, having somebodyjust kind of get onto a video
and say, hey, this is this iswhat this law firm did for me,
and you know I'm very happyabout it, that goes such a long
(16:12):
way, and also because peoplelike results, obviously, but
people like and enjoy watchingvideos that have the results
that they want.
Look how many gurus are outthere not to switch industries
here, but look how many fitnessgurus are out there, and there's
(16:33):
so, so, so many of them and allof them are in good shape, or
they should be.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I mean it's like yeah , you're not, why would you not?
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, but the thing is that you know people attach
themselves to like one of them.
Maybe it's their personality,maybe it's like they share the
same morals, whatever the caseis, but if I was to follow a
fitness guru, it woulddefinitely be somebody who looks
like like has the build that Iwould want.
Because there's differentbuilds right.
There's the big muscular, likethe body weight competition kind
(17:04):
of build.
There's also like the moreskinny kind of.
You know how dare you?
Yeah, I'm wiry, the wiry andand so you know you have, you
have to.
Just you just go with what youwant.
So that social proof thatresults is huge.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So I've said this before, but I mean there's five
levels of getting someone tofollow you, and the first one is
positional, which is useless.
I mean useless is positional.
So like, just because you'reabove me, just because you're on
social media, that doesn't doanything for me, like there's no
, so you don't have cloutbecause of your title.
(17:43):
Uh, you start having, you startgetting people to follow you
when number the second thing isthey're willing to share
personal information aboutthemselves.
They're willing to trust you.
They're willing to like okay, Itrust you.
The third level is that theysee that you're able to generate
results for other people.
If they see you generatingresults for other people, then
they'll take it up.
Now you're on level three.
(18:04):
Level four is when you start tosee results for yourself.
So remember that.
So if you want someone to followyou and this happens in any
facet of life I mean I was aMarine Infantry Officer for
years this is it goes betweenthe office to the battlefield
and anything in between.
You're talking about oneposition leadership, a
Lieutenant and a private.
I mean that's not going to doit for you, they're not going to
(18:24):
follow you.
That might get you in the frontdoor, but it's not going to,
it's not going to, it's notgoing to answer the mail.
Then number two, trust three,results for other people and
then number four, results forthe individual.
So yeah, so we're looking forresults for other people can get
you to a level of leadershipand level to a level where
people are willing to follow you, and that ties into the
testimonial element of this.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah and so okay.
So when we're talking aboutsocial proof, I mean, the best
place you know your warmaudience is the people who are
already in your, in your emaillist.
You know, that's why weconstantly, constantly say
Repetition, repetition,repetition.
Stay in touch, Stay in touch.
The easiest way to stay intouch is with an email
newsletter.
So simple, so simple, but yougot to put the right stuff in
(19:06):
there.
You can't put some cookingrecipe in.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I think the last time I heard was like $41 for every
dollar spent.
I mean the return on investmentfor a newsletter.
The newsletter is one of themost powerhouses of things.
If you don't have a newsletter,stop what you're doing, turn us
off, Don't listen to us everagain and get a newsletter.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, because people like to be comfortable.
They like to.
That's, I mean, that's hell.
That's really what the legalindustry is for.
Right Is that people get intostates that are uncomfortable
and it's their lawyers that helpthem restore some balance, get
back into feeling comfortableagain.
And I think that with the emailnewsletter, with staying in
(19:43):
touch with your current audience, your warm audience, you become
comfortable or they becomecomfortable with you.
You know, and that's kind ofthe, which may take years, it
could, yeah, that's the thing isthat they might not even need
what you have.
Maybe they know somebody thatdoes.
Yeah, it's not lost.
I mean, I think about all thecases that are out there because
(20:06):
someone decided that they justwanted to go on Google and they
got a bad lawyer because theyjust went with like the cheapest
or something like that, and youknow it could have gone one way
, but because they went withsomebody else, you know that
that that that ended up beingbad for them when it could have
(20:28):
been good if they, you know,were in your, in your circle, I
mean.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I just went to Dunkey's.
Before this, that's a Dunkin'Donuts, it's not from New
England.
Before this, that's Dunkin'Donuts for anybody, dunkin'
Donuts for me, that's not fromNew England, boston, no one says
it like that.
And the train drove by on theway there and it said Heineken
Silver on the side.
And now I have Heineken Silverin my head.
I have donkeys in my headalways and with that, the reason
(20:54):
I'm saying this is because thenewsletter is very similar to
the train driving by with theHeineken silver on it.
I mean so even if one of yourpeople that you're sending a
newsletter decides not to readyour newsletter that week and
they just put it in the deletebox, they still saw your name, I
mean, it's just there's.
And I think the biggestpushback that a lot of people
have on newsletters is like Ijust don't want, I don't want to
(21:15):
annoy people.
If they, if the I see thenumbers on newsletters every
week.
I mean I live and breathenewsletters all the time They'll
just unsubscribe and they won'tdo it that much.
I mean you can if they don'twant you.
But the other thing too, is youhave a challenge of making your
newsletter to something thatpeople don't want to delete.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, yep, matt Damon and Dunkin' Donuts, that's all
that resides.
Oh, my goodness, I would saySam Adams, but he I don't drink.
Yeah, he's a sober man.
Even though I'm talking aboutHeineken silver over and over
again, I don't drink.
Okay.
So now a question that many ofour audience might have is that?
(21:54):
Okay, I need to.
You know, I have a small warmnetwork right, like I have a
small list like how can I expandit from there?
What are some ways?
Because we just talked aboutbefore how, if you can get
someone who's part of what youconsider the cold audience,
who's never heard of you before,if you can get someone like
(22:17):
that to take an action thatbrings them closer to your
circle or puts them in yourcircle, huge win.
Huge win, because if they'venever heard of you before and
they take an action to hearabout you, huge win.
So, vinitary, it's good.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
What are you talking about the super Bowl?
Yeah, I was just saying it'samazing.
It's awesome you get someone onyour cold lead to start
following you.
I mean, that's one through theuprights and I hate football too
.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
But okay, so I mean I guess you got to talk football
For real.
There's not much to talk aboutright now.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
No, they're not Fourth worst in the NHL.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
But okay.
So what are some of the waysthat a law firm could get one of
their cold audience into theircircle?
What are some ways to get a sayit one more time, what are some
of the ways to get someone fromyour cold audience into your
warm circle?
Obviously, you could put out asign and say you know.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So what is the level of connection here?
Have they signed up for anewsletter?
Have they done anything?
Have they taken anything?
They have no action whatsoever,never heard of you before.
So that's the world that a lotof us live in, especially as
advertisers, is we're trying totake someone that's never heard
of you before and turn them intoyou.
Now we're going back to what wetalked about in the reader list
.
It goes back to the analysiselement of this.
(23:36):
It's like I'm just not randomlyputting out an ad saying this
is what we do.
Here are our services.
I mean, let's rock and roll,let's do this.
No, that's not even close tothat.
So we're trying to figure outwho is out there.
Like, who is the audience thatI'm talking to?
Is the audience aware?
Is this cold audience aware,that they have a problem?
You, is this cold audienceaware that they have a problem?
You're talking about the stagesof awareness.
(23:58):
The stages of awareness Arethey completely uneducated?
And the fact I mean which isvery rare in our line of work
for lawyers Most people areaware that they have a marketing
problem.
Very few people are just.
And then the other thing islike are they aware that there's
a solution to their marketingproblem.
Okay, got it.
So now they understand there'sa solution.
Do they understand thatspotlight marketing and branding
(24:20):
is one of the avenues that theycan pursue in order to solve
that problem?
Now you're solution aware.
I mean, excuse me, like,product or service aware, yeah,
and then people who are aware ofspotlight marketing and
branding.
And if you are aware ofspotlight marketing and branding
, what we do, we call you themost aware.
So the messaging you, themessage you craft to that, to
that audience, um, you're goingto be in the problem or solution
(24:43):
, uh, aware, pay aware section.
You're not going to be talkingto someone, um, in the cold
audience that is aware of whoyou are and they're definitely
not going to be aware, mostaware.
So the, the messaging you craftis either going to be land in
one of two categories they'regoing to be problem aware.
In that case, your speak, theadvertising I'm going to be
writing, is speaking to thesolutions that we offer.
(25:04):
And for us, I mean it's verysimple.
We offer paid ads throughFacebook, linkedin, instagram
and we also do content for thepurpose of lead nurturing and
lead generation, lead generation, specifically paid ads, lead
generation sometimes gets lumpedin with buying lists, and that
is something we do not do.
So that is our solution.
And then, if people are awarethat, if I'm talking to a cold
(25:26):
list that understands what leadnurturing and lead generation is
, then I'm going to startpitching how we fit into that.
So I'm either talking about thesolution or I'm talking about
how our company is a servicethat offers that solution, and
that's how I'm pulling coldpeople in.
And then I'm going to start togo one level further is what do
they want?
What is their true desire?
(25:47):
Is their true desire to growtheir firm?
Is their true desire to getbetter clients in terms of
quality?
Is it higher conversion rates?
In terms of how many peopleWhatever I'm trying to figure
out identify the desire?
I'm all identifying your levelof awareness.
I'm crafting a messaging thatpulls them in, that gets them
one step closer.
So it has nothing to do withlike.
(26:08):
This is who we are, this iswhat we offer.
Click the button, baby.
Like it's just.
It just doesn't work that wayand it wouldn't work that way
with you.
And if you write ads, you willget someone on the back and say,
yeah, advertising doesn't workon me.
No, that advertising doesn'twork on anybody.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, I mean, one of the very specific ways that you
can get someone from, say, acold audience into a warm
audience would be to have a leadmagnet and run like a lead
nurture campaign is what we callit where, basically, and it's
also a great way to showcasesome empathy, because you're
able to craft like a documentthat basically says like five
(26:43):
things to do when your spouseasks for a divorce.
I don't know why I keep comingback to family law.
I don't know either.
I love my wife, my wife'slistening.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, yeah, you love your family.
I'm looking at you.
Yeah, yeah, I personifieddivorce.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
But anyways.
So you would want to basicallycreate something that is going
to help those, going to educatethem, but it also demonstrates
some empathy, because you'reable to show that, hey, we
understand what you're kind ofgoing through, we understand
that this is a very scary, couldbe confusing, could be
difficult time and they want toalso help you along the process.
(27:23):
Now it's one thing to just say,hey, I have a problem and then
just sit in it.
You know what I mean.
But it's another thing when yousay, hey, I have a problem, I
need a solution.
And so what a lead magnet cando is it acknowledges that you
have a problem but it alsoshares that, hey, the solution
is here and it might not be as,maybe, difficult as you might
(27:45):
think um, I guess some would bemore difficult than others but
either way, it's a great way toshowcase empathy, to share you
know actual, actual steps,actual actionable steps that can
be taken.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
I mean, look at the lead manga.
So Mike and I just made one ofthese.
I mean, yeah, it's called Eight, eight Ways to Get Clients Fast
.
I mean.
So people ask what should I dofor a lead magnet?
So our resource I mean it'sdefinitely free to download,
it's for people that want togrow quickly can implement these
(28:21):
eight tactics in order to getpeople into the door faster.
And all of them are very costeffective.
I mean they cost time versusmoney.
So we're always asking when wedecided to write this thing.
We're thinking it's like okay,who are we speaking to here?
Do we downplay the element oftime?
Do we downplay the upsell thatthis is time over money?
Do we say, do we stress theword fast?
(28:43):
But we're talking to peoplethat maybe don't have the budget
right now for a massivemarketing budget, that don't
have the budget for ads, becauseads do cost money.
So we put out that resource,for we identified a certain key
group of people say yeah, I needclients.
I don't have the capital rightnow to invest in an ad campaign,
but I still need clients.
I need to get momentum.
(29:04):
So that's why we created thelead magnet.
It was to solve somebody'sproblem.
I mean and you can do the samething.
So, if you're creating a leadmagnet, answer the problem.
You answer problems all daylong.
I guarantee you any lawyerthat's listening to this knows
three questions off the top oftheir head that they get asked
constantly, whether at a partyor a consultation.
(29:24):
So, yeah, those are the typesof things you're creating a lead
magnet around.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yep, and that's how you get them in your circle.
And obviously, once they're inyour circle, you want to make
sure that you have the rightkind of content nurture, nurture
, nurture.
Email newsletters, social media, um, you know even your website
because your website could havevideo faqs on it and stuff like
that.
Um, but also like, there'scertain types of of ways to go
about that as well, and we cankind of touch on this before we
(29:50):
close up here.
But the type of content thatyou make, obviously you want to
showcase that you know whatyou're talking about.
That's a good.
Social media is a great place toshow off your accolades.
Your website's a great place toshow off your accolades, great
place for social proof.
But even like content that's,you know, is something a little
bit more personality driven, ifyou have it.
(30:12):
You know you don't want toforce personality, but if you
want to showcase, like, theculture of your firm, you know
there's sometimes there becomestrends on social media.
If you're into that whole thingwhere you can kind of tap into
it and make sense Like, forexample, very recently, there's
a trend if you're listening tothis.
Like, for example, veryrecently there's a trend.
If you're listening to this.
(30:32):
It might be still going on, butthere's a trend of people
creating action figures ofthemselves.
My mojo's terrible.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
The first version was so bad.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And you know you can put like little action figure
accessories in it and it's inthe package and stuff like
that's a great way to basicallykind of showcase personality,
tapping into your into anationwide trend.
But it also it can be on brandfor you, right, you can use your
colors, you can use your logo,you know that sort of thing.
So it's that's stuff like thatthat doesn't come around often,
(31:09):
and rightfully so, for a lawyer.
You're not there to be trendynecessarily.
You're not there to be funnynecessarily.
You're there to help people andso you kind of want your
content just to reflect who youare, what you're about.
And if there is opportunity tobe trendy, great.
If it makes sense, great yougot to be strategic about it.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
You want to post content.
Ask yourself two questions.
One is my clients orprospective clients going to
find it valuable?
Does it demonstrate credibilityand expertise?
If it checks both of thoseboxes 80% of the time, you're
going to be right all the time.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
That's right.
Let's say 60% of the time.
It works every time.
It works every time.
So that's going to do it fortoday's episode.
If you guys feel so inclined toactually want to download the
eight ways to get clients fast afree resource that we have that
Eddie mentioned before, I willput a clickable link for it into
(32:04):
the description of this podcastso you can go check that out,
eddie.
It's been a pleasure.
Always, buddy, and for everyonelistening out there.
Have terrific weekend.
Thank you for listening.
If you leave a review, thathelps us out a lot, but we will
see you next weekend.
Audio later.
three and four launches.
So 75 percent of launches ofnew products failed when they
ignored the customer's world.
So, basically, when theycouldn't tap into their
customers emotions, when theycouldn't, you know, get
basically portray that withintheir marketing, their new
(00:21):
products failed.
Welcome to the law FirmMarketing Minute, the go-to
podcast for solo and small lawfirms who want to level up.
I'm your host, smyke, and I'mexcited for you to join me this
episode.
All right, without further ado,let's dive in.
Hello everyone, welcome back tothe Law Firm Marketing Minute.
(00:43):
As always, I'm your host, smike, and I'm the occasional Eddie.
The occasional Eddie, yeah, andtoday we are diving deep into
the psychology of marketing.
The title is basically whatgets people to click, basically
(01:04):
what makes people click.
It's a little play on wordsthere.
You know what makes people tick, but instead it's what makes
people click.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
It's hysterical and I hope everyone thinks it's as
funny as I do.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So today we're going over very much the things that
go behind it when you putsomething out in your marketing,
you know, when you have a callto action, when you have a
landing page or a digital ad ora social media post or a blog,
all the things that kind of gobehind the scenes, that go on
behind the scenes.
And Eddie and I were actuallytalking a little bit earlier
(01:40):
today.
We were just commenting abouthow it's really cool, at least
from our standpoint, oh yeah,when you're able to create
something and it gets somebodyto take an action.
That's just like it's.
It's a cool, cool feeling.
I mean it.
I I don't mean to sound, uh,you know, like I'm manipulative
or anything like that, but likeit's just it's.
(02:02):
It's interesting to see how,when you play with certain words
, you play with certain designsor something like that, but like
it's just it's interesting tosee how, when you play with
certain words, you play withcertain designs or something
like that, they have an effect.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
And it's definitely important to notice that this is
not, like you said,manipulative.
This is when we talk about,like the psychology or the
reason why someone takes anaction, or why someone downloads
a resource or why someonedecides to book a consultation.
None of the things we'retalking about have anything to
do with psychologicalmanipulation.
I always hear people like, oh,ads don't work on me, ads don't
work on me.
(02:30):
I mean, I am the 1%.
Yeah, they don't work on me.
I know what you're doing and Imean listen, I know the
background of ads, I've studiedthem for a long time and they
still work on me.
I mean, I don't, those are theones I keep, those are the ones
I study.
The thing is the the key hereis being honest, is being like
so that the root cause ofanything that's going to drive a
(02:51):
successful action is going tobe rooted in honesty.
So don't mistake this as a, asa way of manipulating people or
tricking them into getting themCause you might get a, you might
get one phone call out of that,but you won't get two and
they'll never come back to seeyou again.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, and I think where we're starting here is
really the broad sense of peopletaking action and honestly I'm
not sure who coined this, but itmakes so much sense is that
people make decisions based onemotion and then they use logic,
justify by logic.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
To justify it.
I heard a buddy and I'm aCrossFit junkieie and a kid said
this in the gym the other day.
He's like he wanted to buy aRolex Submariner and if you love
watches, I highly recommend aRolex Submariner but definitely
goes to like 10, 12 grand.
And he was talking about howbadly he wanted this Rolex and I
get it.
And he's like, yeah, but it'lllast forever.
And I was like, okay, there'ssomeone who really, really wants
(03:46):
that watch.
And right there, justified itby the logic of saying it would
last forever.
I mean, I'm going to point outit costs $750 to $1,000 to
service it every five to 10years, but he justified it by
logic.
He justified it by saying it'sgoing to last forever, yeah, so
yeah, they definitely.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
It's 100% true and there's different aspects that
kind of go into that.
Because, for example, whenwe're talking about using
emotion to kind of draw peoplein or or get them to make a
decision, it's in your ads.
It might play off with like athe type of image that you use
for your ads, right?
Like people seeing, generallyspeaking people, seeing other
(04:24):
people in some sort of state ofemotion that they can connect to
, is very powerful.
Picture of somebody goingthrough a tough time maybe it's
an ad for, you know, a woman whoneed to get out of abusive
relationships, right?
So maybe something in familylaw, and if someone was going
through this and they'rescrolling on, say, social media
(04:48):
and an image of a woman likebroken down or you know, just
like at the end of a rope withthe right kind of copy and that
sort of thing like that can bevery powerful, even though they
had no idea who that woman is,could just be some sort of stock
photo.
It's that.
It's that human to human kindof connection right.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So here's the scientific explanation of what
mike is talking about.
I mean so, like I, I, I am acopywriting nerd emphasis on
nerd nerd like I love sales copy, I, I, I this is% of it of
writing a sales copy is is thethe strategy and mindset and
what I go into it and theanalysis of what I'm writing and
(05:30):
who I'm writing it to.
So, with that in mind, thefirst step and this is going to
play into what Mike's talkingabout the first step you have to
think to is the universaldesire of the person you're
talking to.
So there are universal desiresin the world.
You cannot create them.
They cannot be created.
They cannot be created.
They cannot be created.
Can they be created?
They cannot be created.
(05:50):
Understood, well played.
So there, I mean these, whatwe're talking about universal
desires, the desire to be rich,the desire to be healthy, the
desire to have a better car thanyour neighbor, the desire to
leave a lasting legacy, thedesire to have your family feel
protected.
I mean these are all sort ofuniversal desires and they vary
(06:10):
by intensity, they vary bystaying power and they vary by
scope of how large they are.
So what all we're trying to dowith any sort of ad or any sort
of ad copy or sales copy emailis you're trying to tap into
that universal desire.
Notice, I didn't say anythingabout your education, about what
you've accomplished, aboutanything that's you, you, you.
(06:31):
We can talk about that in adifferent book, but at the
moment I'm talking aboutuniversal desire, figuring out
what desire do the people havethat you're trying to reach?
And, granted, there are goingto be multiple desires.
You got to pick the best one,pick the one that's the most
intense, that's going to stayaround for the longest and it's
going to reach the most amountof people.
(06:51):
So they said we're tapping indesire, you're speaking to
something that already exists inhuman beings, and what Mike's
talking about is that image.
Is that image of feelingprotected, the image of feeling
safe, the image of the feelingof being heard?
I mean, these are all thingsthat resonate with people
(07:12):
immediately, and copy connectsthe desire to you, it bridges
the gap and that's what we'retalking about in, like the
scientific element of emotionand desire.
That is the key to any sort ofsuccessful ad.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
And if we're talking about a very specific emotion,
empathy is right up top.
There was a report done byNielsen it's called the Nielsen
Breakthrough Innovation ReportRight on for product success, um
(07:42):
, and they found that three andfour launches so 75 of launches
of new products, failed whenthey ignored the customer's
world.
So, basically, when theycouldn't tap into their
customers emotions, when theycouldn't, you know, get
basically portray that withintheir marketing, their new
(08:05):
product failed.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
So I'm just going to keep referencing books here
because I'm not smart enough tosay anything original on my own.
But in 1923, this book calledScientific Advertising came out
by Claude Hopkins.
And Claude Hopkins said exactlythat In 1923, I mean.
So a lot of the books I read oncopywriting are 60, 70 years
old, in this case over 100.
(08:29):
The mediums have changed, theway we speak to these things
have changed, but the root andthe understanding of them
customer is inherently selfish.
They want something that'sgoing to better themselves,
that's going to advance themforward.
(08:50):
I mean they don't care aboutyour hours, they don't care
about your profit margin.
They want a product or servicethat is going to enhance their
lives for the better.
So, yes, if you cannot speakand that is empathy you're
taking yourself out of yoursituation and putting them in
theirs and being able to tapinto that desire, into that sort
of element that leads people tosay yes, you understand what my
(09:12):
problem is.
I mean modern day.
We talk about story branding,making the client the hero of
the story.
That's the same thing as whatClaude Hopkins was saying in
1923.
He was just saying you have totake yourself out of you and put
it into the client, into thecustomer, and give them what
they want.
They don't care about what youare, they just want to know that
you can solve their problem.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, and it gets even deeper than just like your
ads, right, Like, even whenpeople want to look into you as
a law firm.
Right to look into you as a lawfirm, right, Like, going to
your website, going to yoursocial media, having the content
on there.
That isn't really an ad, but itstill has that emphasis on
empathy like for, or it has, ithas that connection.
(10:01):
For example, there's anotherstat that 97% of consumers read
reviews before they purchaseanything.
Right, and that's across theboard.
But heck, 97% is a pretty bignumber.
So I imagine that it's verysimilar within the legal
industry specifically.
That's all.
Referral is right.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
An in-person review, a live review in real time that
you can talk to someone youtrust.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah.
So, like we're talking aboutwith digital ads, where it's
like you know, you choose, likethe appropriate copy, you choose
the appropriate image to use toreally tap into the empathy,
but also your social mediacontent, you could do the same,
very similar.
But even when it comes to yourlike, your website, right, like,
even going to like something asminute or what seems to be
minute, like an about page, like, hey, this is our story as a
(10:42):
law firm.
This is why we got into what wedo, like that's a perfect place
to express and show someempathy, because I mean, heck,
maybe you're a lawyer who youknow got into family law because
you grew up in you know ahousehold that was broken and
you wanted to make sure thatpeople didn't have to experience
that, you know.
(11:02):
Maybe you wanted to make surethat you know people experience
that.
Maybe you wanted to make surethat people had that control in
their lives that maybe youdidn't see growing up.
It's that kind of thing, puttingit into your out page,
something that many, many peopleoverlook, many, many people
overlook because they're justlike oh, it's just um, I
graduated from blah blah blahand I uh, you know, I studied
(11:24):
under blah blah blah and it'slike okay, like that's great,
like accolades are great.
You know people want to knowthat you you're good at what you
do well.
So at the same time it's goingback to that back end kind of
thing with the empathy.
You can use that as theopportunity to really strengthen
, like tell them what is yourstory, how do you connect with
them?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I've had two really good lawyers in my life.
I have no idea where either oneof them went to school.
I mean and I would refer themto anybody I have no idea what
they're.
I mean, just I just I got thembased on referrals and based on
past successes and I have noidea where they went to school.
Actually, I lied, I think oneof them went to Iowa, but no, I
cannot say that for certain.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Wow, so he's uncertain, uncertain it's still
technically just-.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
The other element of that is not only recognizing
that you need to do that, butyou need to do it over and over
and over and over again.
I mean we have so many studieswhere we're looking at.
I mean this is just somethinglike in-house when we have
landing pages.
Mike creates landing pages.
A lot of the times I create thecopy.
We're driving people to alanding page and you'll see that
people will make it to thelanding page multiple times
(12:30):
before filling it out.
I mean they read the copy, theyread the ad, they made it
through the ad.
They went to a resource.
The copy they read the ad, theymade it through the ad.
They went to a resource.
They saw it, they liked it ordidn't like it, but they didn't
fill it out and they'll comeback again.
I mean a lot of times we'relooking at talking about people.
(12:50):
Like we have to remind themalmost three times and that's
for people who are interested.
So it's a repetition of who youare and you're continually
putting yourself out.
There.
Is that messaging?
It's not good enough to stab iton your about page.
It has to be through yourcontent, it has to be through
your videos, it has to show upin your blogs, your newsletters,
and it's just a constantrepetition of reminder.
Again, the repetition issomething that came from the
Claude Hoffman's book in 1923.
(13:11):
He was talking about howfrequently you have to be able
to address something and hitthat same note over and over.
I always think of it kind oflike punk rock.
I mean, you listen to a punkrock song, they hit that
da-da-da-da-da-da.
They say that same note, wailit over and over and over again.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Same thing with marketing You're trying to get
the same message and howfrequently can you get that and
reinforce it?
Yeah, and to kind of touch onwhat you said there about you
know, hey, the people thatalready might have an idea of
what you do, you know you needto repetition even three times
for them to take an action.
That's for people who alreadyhave an idea of what you do.
So, when we're talking aboutpeople who are like a cold
(13:50):
audience, right, people have noidea what you do, people have no
idea who you are.
Like, don't be discouraged bylow numbers.
Like, celebrate the wins, right, because you know there might
be few of them, but heck, that's, that's a win with a cold
audience is terrific.
Like, I, I, I, I put theequivalency to for me, when I'm
(14:12):
on social media and I, I, I geta new follower and they just
seem to be very active with uson social media.
Like, for me, that's a huge win.
It's one person, right, that'sone account, but it's a huge win
for me because that wassomebody who had no idea who we
were before, absolutely.
(14:32):
And now, all of a sudden,they're very engaged with what
they do, they know what we doand they're very educated about
it.
So for me, that's a huge winbecause, even if they don't
become a client, they could opendoors for others.
Because we're talking aboutsocial proof.
You brought up referralsearlier.
Referrals are huge for lawfirms.
The social proof is like out ofthis world.
With referrals, you say, hey,you have this problem, this guy
(14:54):
or this gal solved it for me.
Go, you have this problem, thisguy or this gal solved it for
me.
Go to that person.
That's huge, right so Send itto my friend.
So social proof is somethingthat should definitely be worked
into, especially for law firms.
Unfortunately, there has beenthis mainstream idea that
lawyers are just not trustworthy.
(15:15):
I don't know where that kind ofcame from.
They're right up there withadvertisers.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
We're up there with you, don't worry, we are with
you.
I mean, we used to.
So, yeah, there's a barrierthere that definitely needs to
come down.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, so social proof is a terrific, terrific way to
do so.
I mean, I said before that that97 of consumers read reviews
before they buy anything and yes, that's across the board.
But heck, like having havingyour, your, your, uh
testimonials just up on yourwebsite, or even putting your
testimonials up on your socialmedia.
(15:52):
You know, having someone guestif they want to, obviously you
know guess if they want to,obviously you know if they want
to be anonymous, obviously youcan't do anything about that.
But you know, having somebodyjust kind of get onto a video
and say, hey, this is this iswhat this law firm did for me,
and you know I'm very happyabout it, that goes such a long
(16:12):
way, and also because peoplelike results, obviously, but
people like and enjoy watchingvideos that have the results
that they want.
Look how many gurus are outthere not to switch industries
here, but look how many fitnessgurus are out there, and there's
(16:33):
so, so, so many of them and allof them are in good shape, or
they should be.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
I mean it's like yeah , you're not, why would you not?
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, but the thing is that you know people attach
themselves to like one of them.
Maybe it's their personality,maybe it's like they share the
same morals, whatever the caseis, but if I was to follow a
fitness guru, it woulddefinitely be somebody who looks
like like has the build that Iwould want.
Because there's differentbuilds right.
There's the big muscular, likethe body weight competition kind
(17:04):
of build.
There's also like the moreskinny kind of.
You know how dare you?
Yeah, I'm wiry, the wiry andand so you know you have, you
have to.
Just you just go with what youwant.
So that social proof thatresults is huge.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
So I've said this before, but I mean there's five
levels of getting someone tofollow you, and the first one is
positional, which is useless.
I mean useless is positional.
So like, just because you'reabove me, just because you're on
social media, that doesn't doanything for me, like there's no
, so you don't have cloutbecause of your title.
(17:43):
Uh, you start having, you startgetting people to follow you
when number the second thing isthey're willing to share
personal information aboutthemselves.
They're willing to trust you.
They're willing to like okay, Itrust you.
The third level is that theysee that you're able to generate
results for other people.
If they see you generatingresults for other people, then
they'll take it up.
Now you're on level three.
(18:04):
Level four is when you start tosee results for yourself.
So remember that.
So if you want someone to followyou and this happens in any
facet of life I mean I was aMarine Infantry Officer for
years this is it goes betweenthe office to the battlefield
and anything in between.
You're talking about oneposition leadership, a
Lieutenant and a private.
I mean that's not going to doit for you, they're not going to
(18:24):
follow you.
That might get you in the frontdoor, but it's not going to,
it's not going to, it's notgoing to answer the mail.
Then number two, trust three,results for other people and
then number four, results forthe individual.
So yeah, so we're looking forresults for other people can get
you to a level of leadershipand level to a level where
people are willing to follow you, and that ties into the
testimonial element of this.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah and so okay.
So when we're talking aboutsocial proof, I mean, the best
place you know your warmaudience is the people who are
already in your, in your emaillist.
You know, that's why weconstantly, constantly say
Repetition, repetition,repetition.
Stay in touch, Stay in touch.
The easiest way to stay intouch is with an email
newsletter.
So simple, so simple, but yougot to put the right stuff in
(19:06):
there.
You can't put some cookingrecipe in.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I think the last time I heard was like $41 for every
dollar spent.
I mean the return on investmentfor a newsletter.
The newsletter is one of themost powerhouses of things.
If you don't have a newsletter,stop what you're doing, turn us
off, Don't listen to us everagain and get a newsletter.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, because people like to be comfortable.
They like to.
That's, I mean, that's hell.
That's really what the legalindustry is for.
Right Is that people get intostates that are uncomfortable
and it's their lawyers that helpthem restore some balance, get
back into feeling comfortableagain.
And I think that with the emailnewsletter, with staying in
(19:43):
touch with your current audience, your warm audience, you become
comfortable or they becomecomfortable with you.
You know, and that's kind ofthe, which may take years, it
could, yeah, that's the thing isthat they might not even need
what you have.
Maybe they know somebody thatdoes.
Yeah, it's not lost.
I mean, I think about all thecases that are out there because
(20:06):
someone decided that they justwanted to go on Google and they
got a bad lawyer because theyjust went with like the cheapest
or something like that, and youknow it could have gone one way
, but because they went withsomebody else, you know that
that that that ended up beingbad for them when it could have
(20:28):
been good if they, you know,were in your, in your circle, I
mean.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
I just went to Dunkey's.
Before this, that's a Dunkin'Donuts, it's not from New
England.
Before this, that's Dunkin'Donuts for anybody, dunkin'
Donuts for me, that's not fromNew England, boston, no one says
it like that.
And the train drove by on theway there and it said Heineken
Silver on the side.
And now I have Heineken Silverin my head.
I have donkeys in my headalways and with that, the reason
(20:54):
I'm saying this is because thenewsletter is very similar to
the train driving by with theHeineken silver on it.
I mean so even if one of yourpeople that you're sending a
newsletter decides not to readyour newsletter that week and
they just put it in the deletebox, they still saw your name, I
mean, it's just there's.
And I think the biggestpushback that a lot of people
have on newsletters is like Ijust don't want, I don't want to
(21:15):
annoy people.
If they, if the I see thenumbers on newsletters every
week.
I mean I live and breathenewsletters all the time They'll
just unsubscribe and they won'tdo it that much.
I mean you can if they don'twant you.
But the other thing too, is youhave a challenge of making your
newsletter to something thatpeople don't want to delete.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, yep, matt Damon and Dunkin' Donuts, that's all
that resides.
Oh, my goodness, I would saySam Adams, but he I don't drink.
Yeah, he's a sober man.
Even though I'm talking aboutHeineken silver over and over
again, I don't drink.
Okay.
So now a question that many ofour audience might have is that?
(21:54):
Okay, I need to.
You know, I have a small warmnetwork right, like I have a
small list like how can I expandit from there?
What are some ways?
Because we just talked aboutbefore how, if you can get
someone who's part of what youconsider the cold audience,
who's never heard of you before,if you can get someone like
(22:17):
that to take an action thatbrings them closer to your
circle or puts them in yourcircle, huge win.
Huge win, because if they'venever heard of you before and
they take an action to hearabout you, huge win.
So, vinitary, it's good.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
What are you talking about the super Bowl?
Yeah, I was just saying it'samazing.
It's awesome you get someone onyour cold lead to start
following you.
I mean, that's one through theuprights and I hate football too
.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
But okay, so I mean I guess you got to talk football
For real.
There's not much to talk aboutright now.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
No, they're not Fourth worst in the NHL.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
But okay.
So what are some of the waysthat a law firm could get one of
their cold audience into theircircle?
What are some ways to get a sayit one more time, what are some
of the ways to get someone fromyour cold audience into your
warm circle?
Obviously, you could put out asign and say you know.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So what is the level of connection here?
Have they signed up for anewsletter?
Have they done anything?
Have they taken anything?
They have no action whatsoever,never heard of you before.
So that's the world that a lotof us live in, especially as
advertisers, is we're trying totake someone that's never heard
of you before and turn them intoyou.
Now we're going back to what wetalked about in the reader list
.
It goes back to the analysiselement of this.
(23:36):
It's like I'm just not randomlyputting out an ad saying this
is what we do.
Here are our services.
I mean, let's rock and roll,let's do this.
No, that's not even close tothat.
So we're trying to figure outwho is out there.
Like, who is the audience thatI'm talking to?
Is the audience aware?
Is this cold audience aware,that they have a problem?
You, is this cold audienceaware that they have a problem?
You're talking about the stagesof awareness.
(23:58):
The stages of awareness Arethey completely uneducated?
And the fact I mean which isvery rare in our line of work
for lawyers Most people areaware that they have a marketing
problem.
Very few people are just.
And then the other thing islike are they aware that there's
a solution to their marketingproblem.
Okay, got it.
So now they understand there'sa solution.
Do they understand thatspotlight marketing and branding
(24:20):
is one of the avenues that theycan pursue in order to solve
that problem?
Now you're solution aware.
I mean, excuse me, like,product or service aware, yeah,
and then people who are aware ofspotlight marketing and
branding.
And if you are aware ofspotlight marketing and branding
, what we do, we call you themost aware.
So the messaging you, themessage you craft to that, to
that audience, um, you're goingto be in the problem or solution
(24:43):
, uh, aware, pay aware section.
You're not going to be talkingto someone, um, in the cold
audience that is aware of whoyou are and they're definitely
not going to be aware, mostaware.
So the, the messaging you craftis either going to be land in
one of two categories they'regoing to be problem aware.
In that case, your speak, theadvertising I'm going to be
writing, is speaking to thesolutions that we offer.
(25:04):
And for us, I mean it's verysimple.
We offer paid ads throughFacebook, linkedin, instagram
and we also do content for thepurpose of lead nurturing and
lead generation, lead generation, specifically paid ads, lead
generation sometimes gets lumpedin with buying lists, and that
is something we do not do.
So that is our solution.
And then, if people are awarethat, if I'm talking to a cold
(25:26):
list that understands what leadnurturing and lead generation is
, then I'm going to startpitching how we fit into that.
So I'm either talking about thesolution or I'm talking about
how our company is a servicethat offers that solution, and
that's how I'm pulling coldpeople in.
And then I'm going to start togo one level further is what do
they want?
What is their true desire?
(25:47):
Is their true desire to growtheir firm?
Is their true desire to getbetter clients in terms of
quality?
Is it higher conversion rates?
In terms of how many peopleWhatever I'm trying to figure
out identify the desire?
I'm all identifying your levelof awareness.
I'm crafting a messaging thatpulls them in, that gets them
one step closer.
So it has nothing to do withlike.
(26:08):
This is who we are, this iswhat we offer.
Click the button, baby.
Like it's just.
It just doesn't work that wayand it wouldn't work that way
with you.
And if you write ads, you willget someone on the back and say,
yeah, advertising doesn't workon me.
No, that advertising doesn'twork on anybody.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, I mean, one of the very specific ways that you
can get someone from, say, acold audience into a warm
audience would be to have a leadmagnet and run like a lead
nurture campaign is what we callit where, basically, and it's
also a great way to showcasesome empathy, because you're
able to craft like a documentthat basically says like five
(26:43):
things to do when your spouseasks for a divorce.
I don't know why I keep comingback to family law.
I don't know either.
I love my wife, my wife'slistening.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, yeah, you love your family.
I'm looking at you.
Yeah, yeah, I personifieddivorce.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
But anyways.
So you would want to basicallycreate something that is going
to help those, going to educatethem, but it also demonstrates
some empathy, because you'reable to show that, hey, we
understand what you're kind ofgoing through, we understand
that this is a very scary, couldbe confusing, could be
difficult time and they want toalso help you along the process.
(27:23):
Now it's one thing to just say,hey, I have a problem and then
just sit in it.
You know what I mean.
But it's another thing when yousay, hey, I have a problem, I
need a solution.
And so what a lead magnet cando is it acknowledges that you
have a problem but it alsoshares that, hey, the solution
is here and it might not be as,maybe, difficult as you might
(27:45):
think um, I guess some would bemore difficult than others but
either way, it's a great way toshowcase empathy, to share you
know actual, actual steps,actual actionable steps that can
be taken.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
I mean, look at the lead manga.
So Mike and I just made one ofthese.
I mean, yeah, it's called Eight, eight Ways to Get Clients Fast
.
I mean.
So people ask what should I dofor a lead magnet?
So our resource I mean it'sdefinitely free to download,
it's for people that want togrow quickly can implement these
(28:21):
eight tactics in order to getpeople into the door faster.
And all of them are very costeffective.
I mean they cost time versusmoney.
So we're always asking when wedecided to write this thing.
We're thinking it's like okay,who are we speaking to here?
Do we downplay the element oftime?
Do we downplay the upsell thatthis is time over money?
Do we say, do we stress theword fast?
(28:43):
But we're talking to peoplethat maybe don't have the budget
right now for a massivemarketing budget, that don't
have the budget for ads, becauseads do cost money.
So we put out that resource,for we identified a certain key
group of people say yeah, I needclients.
I don't have the capital rightnow to invest in an ad campaign,
but I still need clients.
I need to get momentum.
(29:04):
So that's why we created thelead magnet.
It was to solve somebody'sproblem.
I mean and you can do the samething.
So, if you're creating a leadmagnet, answer the problem.
You answer problems all daylong.
I guarantee you any lawyerthat's listening to this knows
three questions off the top oftheir head that they get asked
constantly, whether at a partyor a consultation.
(29:24):
So, yeah, those are the typesof things you're creating a lead
magnet around.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yep, and that's how you get them in your circle.
And obviously, once they're inyour circle, you want to make
sure that you have the rightkind of content nurture, nurture
, nurture.
Email newsletters, social media, um, you know even your website
because your website could havevideo faqs on it and stuff like
that.
Um, but also like, there'scertain types of of ways to go
about that as well, and we cankind of touch on this before we
(29:50):
close up here.
But the type of content thatyou make, obviously you want to
showcase that you know whatyou're talking about.
That's a good.
Social media is a great place toshow off your accolades.
Your website's a great place toshow off your accolades, great
place for social proof.
But even like content that's,you know, is something a little
bit more personality driven, ifyou have it.
(30:12):
You know you don't want toforce personality, but if you
want to showcase, like, theculture of your firm, you know
there's sometimes there becomestrends on social media.
If you're into that whole thingwhere you can kind of tap into
it and make sense Like, forexample, very recently, there's
a trend if you're listening tothis.
Like, for example, veryrecently there's a trend.
If you're listening to this.
(30:32):
It might be still going on, butthere's a trend of people
creating action figures ofthemselves.
My mojo's terrible.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
The first version was so bad.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
And you know you can put like little action figure
accessories in it and it's inthe package and stuff like
that's a great way to basicallykind of showcase personality,
tapping into your into anationwide trend.
But it also it can be on brandfor you, right, you can use your
colors, you can use your logo,you know that sort of thing.
So it's that's stuff like thatthat doesn't come around often,
(31:09):
and rightfully so, for a lawyer.
You're not there to be trendynecessarily.
You're not there to be funnynecessarily.
You're there to help people andso you kind of want your
content just to reflect who youare, what you're about.
And if there is opportunity tobe trendy, great.
If it makes sense, great yougot to be strategic about it.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
You want to post content.
Ask yourself two questions.
One is my clients orprospective clients going to
find it valuable?
Does it demonstrate credibilityand expertise?
If it checks both of thoseboxes 80% of the time, you're
going to be right all the time.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
That's right.
Let's say 60% of the time.
It works every time.
It works every time.
So that's going to do it fortoday's episode.
If you guys feel so inclined toactually want to download the
eight ways to get clients fast afree resource that we have that
Eddie mentioned before, I willput a clickable link for it into
(32:04):
the description of this podcastso you can go check that out,
eddie.
It's been a pleasure.
Always, buddy, and for everyonelistening out there.
Have terrific weekend.
Thank you for listening.
If you leave a review, thathelps us out a lot, but we will
see you next weekend.
Audio later.
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