November 27, 2024 • 55 mins
What happens when a creative partnership is tested by personal loss and professional challenges? Join Mikayla and Darbi as they explore this question through Gabrielle Zevin’s novel, "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow." They embark on an engaging conversation about the highs and lows in the lives of Sam and Sadie, protagonists whose journey through friendship and collaboration in the gaming world offers a touching narrative on resilience and healing. Whether you're a gamer or a book lover, join us for a thought-provoking dialogue that celebrates the intersection of friendship, creativity, and the digital age.
SPOILER WARNING!
Start: 7:36
End: 48:52
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the Lazy Girl Library, the podcast, where
reading is a pleasure andcaptivating adventures happen
from the comfort of your couch.
I'm your host, darby, and I'mMikayla, and if you've ever
spent more time rearranging yourbookshelf than your priorities,
then you, my friend, are in theright place.
Episode 14 it's here.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Wow, I feel like we've kind of flown through this
year.
It doesn't feel like we've done14 episodes already.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
That's kind of crazy.
I know we're so good at this.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Well, welcome back.
Today is a book talk episode.
Yeah, so we're going to betalking about the book Tomorrow
and Tomorrow and Tomorrow byGabrielle Zevin, but before we
do, we're going to talk aboutour five-star, one-star moments
of the week.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I love this.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So, darby, do you want to start us off?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Um, okay, I should have thought about this
beforehand.
Okay, my one star is probablythat I slept very poorly last
night.
Not good, not good.
My five star would be oh, Ifeel like I had something and I
(01:24):
lost it.
I think my five star would justbe like the time that we're in,
like it's crazy, but it's sofun and exciting.
And we just went to thislantern festival last night with
our like girl group and it'sjust so fun, like being with
each other and talking.
Yeah, I guess that's my fivestar.
You also put up your Christmastree too.
Yes, oh, my gosh, okay, justkidding, get out of here.
(01:45):
Girls Five star is definitelyputting up my Christmas tree for
the first time with my husband.
It's our first marriedChristmas and this is our first
big tree in our first house, soso sweet.
It was really cute, love that.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Thanks for the reminder.
You're welcome.
I was blanking what about you?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
what's your five star and one star?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
my five star was probably the lantern festival
that we did with her.
So unoriginal.
I'm just kidding, I don't know,it was just fun.
It's always fun to get together.
The weather's colder now, whichis nice, and it was just really
cool, like seeing it was a muchbigger festival than I was
expecting it to be it really waslike tangled level for people
(02:30):
who are, who don't really knowwhat we're saying.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
It's like the little paper lanterns and you like
place them in the water and theyfloat then you had like a
chance to like write on themwhatever you wanted.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You could decorate like however you wanted, and so
people would put things thatthey're thankful for or like you
know some memorial ones yeah,letters to like loved ones.
They've lost things like that.
Just fun doodles, yeah, um, butit was really cool getting to
see like all of them and theyhad like food trucks out there,
and so it's nice to just gettogether, um, and spend some
quality time with the girls, soit's something different that
(03:02):
it's not like you do all thetime.
Yeah, so that was cool.
That was probably my five star,my one star moment.
Um, I have packages that I wastrying to send.
They've been on my to-do listfor forever.
I have been, uh,procrastinating sending them off
, putting them together, sendingthem off.
I finally, like have them alltaped up, ready to go.
(03:22):
Um, josh was kind enough totake them to the post office for
me and they wouldn't acceptthem because they were in old
amazon boxes that had an emptybar or had like an extra barcode
on it ridiculous.
I was so frustrated becauseI've sent them.
I've sent things like packagesthrough the post office before
in other amazon boxes, so I knowyou can like I've done it
(03:45):
before a thousand other times.
Why this was a problem this onetime Strange, I don't know.
But that was really frustratingbecause I thought I could check
that off my to-do list and itis now still on my to-do list.
So, ups, I'm coming to you next.
Yeah, we are.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Maybe next time you can like duct tape over the
barcode.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, I think I colored over them this time
around.
I normally do and I coloredover like the sticker ones, but
there are some that are actuallylike printed on the boxes that
I just didn't even think aboutbecause I've never had to think
about them before, but I guessit was a problem this time.
So they're all colored in.
I'm going to UPS to try to markthat off my list.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
No, no, we're going to send Josh again to UPS.
You're going to relax and read.
You're right, you're right.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So yeah, that was my one star, it was just annoying.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, I love our five stars.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yes and I hate our one stars.
But getting back into our book.
So, like I said, our book clubbook this month was Tomorrow and
Tomorrow and Tomorrow byGabrielle Zevin.
Really excited to talk aboutthis one with you.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, this is going to be fun.
So the book description of thisbook was In this exhilarating
novel, two friends, often inlove but never lovers, come
together as creative partners inthe world of video game design.
Come together as creativepartners in the world of video
game design, where successbrings them fame, joy, tragedy,
duplicity and, ultimately, akind of immortality.
(05:11):
On a bitter cold day in theDecember of his junior year at
Harvard, sam Master exits asubway car and sees, amid the
hordes of people waiting on theplatform, sadie Green.
He calls her name.
For a moment she pretends shehasn't heard him, but then she
turns and a game begins, alegendary collaboration that
(05:31):
will launch them to stardom.
These friends, intimate sincechildhood, borrow money, beg
favors and before evengraduating college, they have
created their first blockbuster,ichigo.
Overnight, the world is theirs,not even 25 years old.
Sam and Sadie are brilliant,successful and rich, but these
qualities won't protect themfrom their own creative
(05:53):
ambitions or the betrayals oftheir hearts.
Spanning 30 years, fromCambridge Massachusetts to
Venice Beach, california, andlands in between and far beyond,
gabrielle Zevin's Tomorrow andTomorrow and Tomorrow is a
dazzling and intricatelyimagined novel that examines the
multifarious nature of identity, disability, failure, the
(06:16):
redemptive possibilities in playand, above all, our need to
connect, to be loved and to love.
Yes, it is a love story, but itis not one you have read before
.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
You read that beautifully.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I was feeling myself reading that I was like I should
be a book reader.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yes, you should?
Yeah, absolutely, that was likethe enunciation.
Guys, come on Professionallevel over here.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Thank you, thank you um, but so we're gonna be
talking about our thoughts onthis book.
Answering wait, did you alreadysay this?
Oh, okay, good, we're gonna beanswering some book club best
questions about the book andgiving our final ratings.
So if you haven't read the book, get ready for a big old read
and recap.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, so just to preface, the reading recap is
just a high-level summary, soit's not going to cover
everything in the book, but justenough to give those of you who
don't really want to read thebook but still want to listen to
the episode enough context forwhat we're talking about, but we
do highly encourage reading thebook.
Also, with this book, I do wantto put out that there are some
(07:26):
trigger warnings when we'redoing this recap of talks of
like depression and massviolence.
So you know, just know yourselfand know that there might be
some themes that are hard totalk about.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Warning book spoilers ahead.
Please head to the descriptionand show notes to find where to
skip to.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
You have been warned so, to start us off, in the
1980s a young sam mazer andsadie green needed a pediatric
hospital.
Sadie's older sister, alice,was being treated for childhood
leukemia, while sam wasundergoing multiple surgeries on
his foot, which was crushed ina car crash that killed his
mother.
So having some selectively,having become selectively mute
(08:08):
since the crash, sam spends allthis time playing nintendo and
organ trail and other sorts ofvideo games in the game room at
the hospital nurses encouragesadie to go play with him.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Having someone to share games with causes Sam to
begin speaking again and thepair become best friends.
They find out that spendingtime with Sam or not they.
Sadie finds out that spendingtime with Sam can count as
community service, which isrequired for her bat mitzvah.
And Sadie begins tallying herhours at the hospital and though
she really values her time withSam more than fulfilling the
(08:43):
requirement for her, it's kindof like a game.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
So after her recovery , her sister, alice, was jealous
of Sadie and tells Sam when shesees him at the hospital about
the tally sheet, which deeplyoffends him.
And so Sam and Sadie stopspeaking and don't see one
another again for like six years.
But then the pair is finallyreunited by chance at the train
(09:08):
station in New England, wherethey're both 19.
Sam is studying math at Harvard, sadie is an engineer at MIT.
Sam is still suffering withissues with his foot and lives
off campus with his roommateMarks, who is an amateur
Shakespearean acting student andhas come to see Sam as the
(09:30):
brother he always wanted as achild.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Sadie impulsively asks Sam to play a test video
game that she programmed for asoftware design class and he
agrees.
Sam and Marks play the game andare super impressed with the
design.
Meanwhile, sadie's professorDove, a successful game
programmer in his own right,becomes enamored with Sadie due
to the game.
The two actually begin anaffair and Dove begins mentoring
(09:55):
Sadie on how to become a betterprogrammer.
Their relationship ultimatelycrumbles when the married Dove
decides to return to his wife.
Sadie falls into a deepdepression and stops eating and
bathing.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Sam then begins visiting Sadie and eventually
convinces her to program a gametogether with him.
So Sadie then moves in with Samand Marks as they convert
Marks' apartment into a gamestudio called Unfair Games, with
Marks as their official officemanager and producer.
So Sam and Sadie conceptualizethe idea of their first game,
(10:31):
ichigo.
It's an adventure game about achild lost at sea who must find
his way back home.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
With struggling to develop the graphics for the
engine.
Sam encourages Sadie to askDove for help and the two of
them, sadie and dove, begintheir relationship again or
resume their relationship.
But with dove's help sadie andsam are able to complete the
game.
Unfair games is offered thenthe choices between a super
(10:58):
lucrative distribution deal thatwill take away some creative
control of ichigo or a moremodest offer that gives them
more freedom over theircreativeness.
Sam and Marks kind of pressureSadie into accepting the former
so that Sam can afford theexpensive amputation of his foot
and prosthetic after his latestsurgery fails.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Ichigo then becomes a pop culture phenomenon and Sam
and Sadie become celebrities,though Sadie kind of bristles at
game journalist's sexistassumptions that Sam is the one
that contributed more to thegame and the company than she
did, even though she did most ofthe programming.
Further deteriorates over thequestion of how much Sam also
(11:47):
knew about her relationship withDov and his encouragement to
talk to him about helping withIchigo's graphics.
So Sadie then dumps Dov againand moves to Los Angeles with
Sam and Marks to establish theirunfair games company as a
corporate entity.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Marks and Sadie begin dating a little bit after
moving to Los Angeles together,and this development disturbs
Sam, who fears that they'regoing to abandon him if they
become a committed couple.
And also Marks pressures Saminto working on Sadie's dream
project, an elaboraterole-playing game called Both
Sides that takes place betweenalternate realities.
(12:24):
The game is a commercial andcritical failure, but the three
become motivated to spin off thegame's idyllic American suburb
of Mapletown into a virtualworld called Maple World, which
proves to be the company'sgreatest success.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Sam's jealousy of Sadie and Mark's relationship
and Sadie's discomfortdiscomfort with sam gaining
credit for their work furtherdrives a wedge between them
sadie then asks marks toconvince sam that unfair's next
project should be a game calledmaster of the revels, which is a
shakespearean themed open worldsimulator game that sadie
really wants to make.
(13:02):
Sam initially balks at the idea, and so Sadie develops the game
on her own.
But upon playing its demo, samreally compliments her work.
It proves to be another success, and Sam and Sadie go on tour
to promote it for the Christmas2005 season.
In their absence, an attackercomes to Unfair Games
(13:23):
headquarters looking for Sam,angry that he legalized gay
marriage in the Maple World.
But in Sam's absence, anextremist then murders Marx
before shooting himself.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Sadie, who is pregnant with her and Marx's
child, becomes a recluse andleaves the running of Unfair to
Sam.
Having already planneddevelopment for an expansion
pack for master of the rebels,sadie produces it from home,
programming in a likeness ofmarx, who recites soliloquies
from mcbeth, his favorite playin honor of him.
(13:57):
After giving birth, sadiesuffers from postpartum
depression but finds solace inan Oregon Trail-themed game
where she befriends a variety ofcharacters in the guide of a
humble pioneer and single mother.
Playing the game in seclusionover the course of three years,
(14:18):
sadie finally comes to termswith Marx's death and her role
as a mother.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Context clues also finally lead Sadie to realize
that several of her in-gamefriends, including her in-game
wife, are actually sam, playingunder alternate user ids sadie
then confronts sam, who admitshe programmed the entire game
called pioneers for her usingthe maple world engine, knowing
she would be drawn to it and itwould be a way for both of them
(14:45):
to kind of heal together aftermarx's murder um.
An angry sadie then cuts offcontact with sam.
In 2008, sadie then has dinnerwith dov, who tells her that
only someone who truly loved hercould have done what sam did
sadie forgives sam and the tworeunite, selling the rights to
(15:05):
make it should go three to athird party developer.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So they don't have to dwell on the past, realizing
that making games with sam isone of the only things that made
her truly happy.
The two begin planning on fairsnext game and that is the end.
And again, that's just a highlevel summary.
There are like so many detailsthat we're missing um from there
, but that's just.
(15:28):
It's the gist of it yeah,that's the gist, and so what are
your initial thoughts, michaela?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I loved this book.
This is definitely a top readfor me this year.
Uh, it's one of those booksthat, at least for me personally
like after finishing I justfelt so deep in my soul, um, and
it's one I'm going to carrywith me for a long time.
Uh, the story I thought was Ithought it was so well done
where it really mimicked lifeand even though it definitely
(15:56):
has a plot that it's followingas far as, like unfair games is
concerned, I felt like it wasalmost more mini subplots
throughout, as opposed to havinglike one overarching story that
kind of again like mimics lifeand there's a lot of
imperfections in the story andthe characters that I think just
kind of enhanced it alltogether and mimicked like life
(16:20):
and its complexities just sobeautifully.
I loved it.
What about you, darby?
I didn't feel exactly the sameway.
It's gonna be a good discussionepisode.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Um, I thought this was a good book, but I didn't
necessarily enjoy reading it, ifthat makes sense I could
totally see that um, a lot of itdid feel very like real and raw
, but for me I felt the authorjust had a sense of glass half
empty the whole time, like Ifelt like there wasn't a lot of
like positives like spoken inthe book or optimism in the book
(16:55):
which it did touch on a lot ofvery like hard and heavy parts
about life, but I feel like itreally just skipped over like
happy parts of life andrelationship.
So that's where I just likefell off and the pacing of it,
the way like it was read, wasjust hard for me to follow,
which I think some people reallyliked that being kind of in
(17:16):
that present tense the wholetime with whoever it was.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
But for me not, yeah, it definitely isn't.
It reads very interestinglybecause it almost does like
flashbacks mid-present tensewithout warning you that it's
doing a flashback or a flashforward, and then seamlessly
goes back into, like whateverpresent tense.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And you like don't know who you're like talking
about until they like starttalking Like who you're behind
the eyes of right.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, no, it was definitely like it took an
adjusting when you first startreading it, so I totally
understand that.
For me, though, I loved thatpart of it.
I think it uh, like I said itjust like mimicked life and like
how we have conversations andhow like I could be telling you
a story and all of a sudden I'mlike, oh wait, but you need the
context of this, so like I'mgonna go back and tell you this
yeah, a tidbit and then continueon it.
Kind of like mimicked that forme, which is why I kind of
(18:09):
enjoyed it yeah, but it can beconfusing yeah it was definitely
.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I think it was just like different.
It was my first time reading itand I just wasn't like hooked
on that style.
Yeah, but again, like the storywas good but there were parts
of it that I didn't enjoy, sure.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Did you have a favorite part?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I did so.
Marx yes, he was the onlypositive one in the book.
I love Marx and kind of likeone of the big reasons that
really kept me into the storywas his development, which I
know.
Sam and Sadie were the maincharacters, but like I could
have cared less what happened tothem, like all I cared about
was Mark.
(18:44):
And then also I really likedall the different video game
concepts.
They're really unique and I'mnot a huge gamer so I don't know
if there are games that areexactly like that it should go.
There's got to be a game supersimilar to that, because that's
just kind of like a story modetype of game.
But those were reallyinteresting too.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So I liked all of those.
I was into it.
What about you?
Uh, yeah, no, I thought thatwas really interesting too.
But I agree, marks was myfavorite, my tamer of horses.
Um, he's just like the bestfriend somebody could ever have
and had such a heart of gold,and I uncontrollably sobbed when
he died oh my gosh, that hit meso hard.
He just like I loved thecomparison to him as an NPC too,
(19:30):
which I think that stands forlike non-player NPC something I
knew at one point I had it and Ilost it as I started talking
about it.
I don't remember, but um,essentially like an npc is like
a computerized non-playercharacter.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
There we go.
I just looked it up.
I won't take credit for thatbut how like they compared it?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
because it, like you just said, like sadie and sam
are technically the main playersin the game of this book.
Um, and marks would be moreyour npc.
But you can't have a story or agame without npcs, like they're
the ones that keep everythingmoving, and I think that marks
did that and oh, so beautiful, Iloved him.
So sad, uh.
(20:14):
But I also did want to shareone of my favorite quotes that
just I don't know why this wasso profound to me, but it stuck
so like it was early on in thebook from sadie's grandma she's
the one who said it when theywere like still young and
visiting sam in the hospital andit just stuck in my brain and
it's going to be one that I'mgoing to remember for a long
time.
It's life is filled withinescapable moral compromises.
(20:37):
We should do what we can toavoid the easy ones, and I think
because I constantly talk abouthow life is such a grayscale
and we love to try to makethings so black and white, but
we really don't live in a blackand white world that it kind of
encapsulates that it's notsaying that you're never going
to mess up because there areinescapable moral compromises
(21:00):
you have to make in life.
That's just life, um.
But to avoid the easy ones, todo what you can to like.
Stay on the right path.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I love that yeah, I'm curious what your least
favorite part was, since youreally did enjoy the book um,
sadie, sadie drove me insanethroughout this book.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Um, at first I was like all about her.
I really liked her, I liked hercharacter, I liked how it was
written, like for young sadie inthe beginning.
Um, and sam was a little offfor me and like I wasn't a big
like sam friend or uh, fan.
But as the book progressed Ifeel like sam's character went
through a lot of characterdevelopment and growth, whereas
Sadie's almost regressed for meand she just became even more
(21:45):
irritating and annoying andfrustrating and like what are
you doing?
So yeah, she was reallyfrustrating.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Okay, specifically the chapter where they're in the
Pioneer game.
It was so long and for what?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Like it would have impacted me so much harder if it
was shorter, but I was like weknow exactly what's happening,
like so I want to counter argueyou on this one and I want to
hear so I think it was long, I'mnot necessarily element, it was
really long but I think whatthe point of the chapter was to
(22:20):
show the detail and developmentthat sam made for sadie and to
kind of show sadie's healingjourney and so like how to be
that long it was long.
Sorry, I'm too stubborn on it.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I did not, but no, I like, get it and I get what the
author was trying to do and Iliked it.
I just would have liked less ofit.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, I get it.
Get back to the point, becausethere's almost like too many
details.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
It's like I get it Like he put so much thought into
it, like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I understand for me.
I'm such a details person, so Iloved saying all the like
little things.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Sometimes I am, but for some reason, in this
instance I was just like why dowe need to know that she got one
carrot or something like?
True yeah, like things likethat.
I'm like I don't, I don't know.
And then also the glass halfempty view from both like sadie
and and Sam for the whole book.
Yeah, but now I kind of have aglass half empty view of the
book.
That was my least favorite.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
What it makes you feel.
No, that makes sense.
Yeah, so this novel kind ofdepicts the complexities of love
and connection in many forms.
So in what ways does Sadie andsam's relationship, in your
opinion, blur the lines betweenfriendship and something more?
Speaker 1 (23:45):
um, so I had like notes on this a little bit
farther down for anotherquestion we're talking about,
but I think it almost gave moresibling like love for me
sometimes.
I think they had a bit of like.
I think sam had a little bit ofyoung love going on, maybe in
the beginning, like in thehospital, like because Sadie's
the one that really brought himout of that.
And then I think Sadie showed alot of love for Sam when she
(24:12):
compromised on the companybecause you could tell that that
was like morally and for hervalues, like she was really
aligning with the other one.
But because of her love for samand wanting him to be, uh,
provided for, I think thatshowed a lot of love.
And then, additionally, towardsthe end, when sam should love
(24:32):
for sadie, when he was basicallyrunning the company by himself
after marks and he was the onethat kind of like was moving
along, uh, but it's pretty clearthat sam loved sadie more, yeah
, in the book and I think sadiesometimes used like sam knowing
like his feelings for her.
So that's kind of like where Ithink the yeah, no, I completely
(24:56):
agree.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, um, I definitely see the siblings
thing more.
I think that's a really goodway to describe the relationship
.
Um, I think the key to sam andsadie's relationship is
emotional intimacy because, like, this is kind of like what dove
alluded to at the end of thebook when he said that, uh, when
he's talking to sadie about theway that sam program pioneers,
(25:18):
like specifically for her, andlike that could only be like
true love, that like did that.
I think it's because of theintimacy that you feel through
like forms of play and he knewlike so much about her
intimately through their timeplaying video games together.
But that didn't necessarily.
Intimacy doesn't necessarilymean romance and it doesn't have
(25:40):
to be romantic.
You could have a romanticrelationship and it might be
missing intimacy and you couldhave an intimate relationship
with somebody, but it doesn'tmean that has to be romantic.
They're, they're not.
I feel like intimacy andromantic feelings often get like
mushed together because theycan like you can't have a
(26:02):
romantic intimate relationship,uh, but that doesn't mean that
they're like one in the same.
Yeah, I think that was like thedifference.
Whereas, like she had sadie hada romantic relationship with
marks, but she had an intimaterelationship with sam.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
But sometimes I do question their intimacy, in a
sense of like they never reallytalked, though, about the
intimate issues for a lot ofthings so like Sadie not
bringing up the whole likeengine thing with Dove, and like
(26:38):
her resentment in varioussituations she didn't express
those feelings.
Sam didn't express anythingmedically about him and those
types of intimate parts of himto sadie, or like the whole
marks thing, like his fears, andI get that a lot of that is
like internal stuff, so you'renot going to share your deepest
(26:59):
things.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
But when you're talking about like this pair and
their intimate relationship, Ifeel like it was lacking so much
though, of an actualrelationship well, I think my
counter to that would be thatit's intimacy would be more like
vulnerabilities and likeknowing the in-depth person of
(27:22):
somebody's like thoughts andlike how they think, how they
feel, and doesn't necessarilymean that it's knowing
everything about the person andwhat's going on with them.
So like with um, at least, likewith sam and his foot, you're
right.
Like he's not expressingspecifically about like the
(27:44):
struggles that he's having, butbecause Sadie and Marks know him
so intimately and like hisfeelings that he almost like
doesn't have to, because youkind of already know that he's
feeling insecure about somethingor he's pushing through and
trying.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Does that make sense?
It does.
It's funny, though, that yousay vulnerability, because I was
, as you were saying that, I wasthinking like, yeah, intimate,
but it's lacking thevulnerability of them sharing
like the most vulnerable partsabout themselves.
So that was.
I found that funny.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I feel like this might be a difference for the
two of us and how we interpretit, because I feel like you're
much more of like an externalMaybe, and you process things
like externally versus likeSometimes Justin would very much
disagree, really.
Yeah, I feel like, at least forus, like when we're talking, I
feel like you're always likevocalizing your thought
processes and things.
Friendships are different.
(28:35):
Yes, which they were clearlyfriends Right yes, but they were
clearly friends.
Right for like, for like.
I'm much more of like, aninternal like.
I love to process thingsinternally first before I start
vocalizing to work it out.
So maybe that that can also belike the difference in how we
interpreted things too.
This is very true, but, uh,interesting.
But I do agree, though that um,definitely more of a sibling
(28:55):
relationship.
I feel that could bemisconstrued and I loved the way
you said young love for Sam.
I completely agree because he'skind of stuck in that middle
school relationship feelingthroughout the whole book.
I agree.
So did the book focusing ongames enhance your understanding
of the story or was itchallenging to kind of connect,
(29:16):
since we're both not reallygamers?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I think it enhanced it and that you didn't
necessarily need to be a gamerand I'm not a gamer, but I feel
like you play a lot of games.
Yeah, I was gonna say I feellike I understood, like I know
what it means to like, like whata sandbox game is, or like
story mode co-op, like thosekinds of things, like so
obviously I don't know like whatthe engine graphics are but I
(29:42):
don't know if, if I knew nothingabout games, how that would
change, but for my low levelknowledge of games, I think it
enhanced it and again, like Isaid, it was one of my favorite
parts was like learning aboutthe different games and I wanted
to play them.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah no, I agree.
Uh, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I couldn't even tell you sandbox what that means,
like I'm pretty sure, and videogamers correct me if I'm wrong,
but like minecraft is like asandbox game when it's like
there's not necessarily a goal.
So like um, it's just a sandboxlike play so, like in minecraft
, you're just building something.
So I'm pretty sure like um, likemaple world would have been
(30:22):
like a sandbox game, the sims asandbox game.
I think I could be wrong onsome of those, but I think, when
it's not like um, like a storymode is like, uh, like the
hogwarts video game, likethere's a story that you're
following, whereas sandbox gameis like there's not necessarily
like a goal, sure, like I thinkthe pokemon game is a sandbox
(30:43):
one and that's just like yourgoal is to catch them all and
like win all the different umbattles, but it's, it's like
free roaming.
I could be so wrong, I couldtotally be wrong, so I'm gonna
have justin listen to this andcritique me after that.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
No, that makes that makes perfect sense to me, uh,
but I don't have like some ofthat.
Like I play what I think I playmario kart and that's about it.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I'm not like I'm not big into the gaming world but.
I still like I think the authorthat you said did a good job of
like keeping it more high levelfor like people understanding,
and it did kind of dive deepinto like the intricacies of
developing a game, but not towhere somebody who has no idea
what they're talking about wouldbe confused, like it's still
easy to fall and you kind oflearn about the process a little
(31:29):
bit.
Um, and I thought that thehaving the gaming be like
symbolism of life helped youlike conceptualize and like make
the or make the concepts morelike tangible to understand and
like some of the symbolism of it.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
What do you mean?
Gaming was symbolism of life,like so okay.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
So this is why I loved the book, because
throughout the book, like I said, the whole plot is like this
kind of the gaming world and themaking this whole games.
But, um, when they starttalking about certain games, um,
like the restart for life andhow you can, oh, yes, yes, yes,
those yes, okay, they had likecertain like because you could
like.
You know you can restart a game,but like when marks died, like
(32:15):
yeah, that's the end of it likehe's there's no, there is no
restart for life kind of thing,which is why so many people love
video games, because you get tolive in an infinite world,
essentially.
But they had a lot of themeslike that throughout the whole
book that I think, by connectingthem to games, made them more
tangible for you to understand.
Good analogies, yes, so yeah, Ithink it really helped the book
(32:38):
more for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, how does the novel explore the ups and downs
of working with others oncreative projects, and have you
yourself experienced a similardynamic in a partnership or
creative project?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
So I think the book shows more like how pressures
from the outside world oroutside forces can change a
working dynamic within a group.
I think that's kind of more whatit showed as far as a group
creative project is concerned,because in the beginning, when
they're working on Ichigo beforethey're unknowns there's low
(33:17):
stakes and so they're able toreally find their way Not saying
that didn't have like creativedifferences or tiffs or things
like that within the developmentof it, but because it's more
low stakes, they were able tolike take more risk with it or
they really were able to divideup the like um work between
their strengths and theirweaknesses um for, like sam
(33:38):
being able to do more of likethe creative art and for sadie
doing much more of like thetechnical developing of it all,
versus after ichigo became sucha huge thing.
The stakes were much higher forthem, which caused a lot more
tension and caused cracks forlike ego to creep in a lot more,
which is where, like sadiestarted feeling resentment
(33:59):
towards sam for the whole usingher for to get to dov thing or
for taking credit for herfeeling like taking credit um
for, uh, some of the programmingthat she felt she deserved more
credit for.
So I think that the higherstakes is what caused more
(34:20):
tension for them within theircreative dynamic.
Um, and although I've neverexperienced something like that,
I feel like we kind ofexperienced that a little bit
with the podcast, not the I haveso much resentment towards my
just kidding.
It would be the other way aroundnot that yeah, not the negative
(34:40):
part, but but like the lowstakes, like we're just doing
this for fun and we're reallyplaying to each other's
strengths, and like what we dofor this podcast.
That I think kind of like showsin the beginning of the book a
little bit too, and how we canconnect to that.
Yeah, just my thoughts whatabout you?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
what do you think?
Um.
So it was hard for me at firstto think about the successes of
working together creatively,because I feel like the book
skipped over much of that, yeah,um and focused more so on the
downs and the struggles and theresentment I feel like it was
almost like watching thebackside of water, where you see
like you know the successes arethere and you kind of hear
(35:18):
about them in the background,but you're focusing on the back
side of it, the technical sideof it all, where they're having
all these cracks and not thefacade yeah, but it just is like
how sad and boring is that?
yeah, like depressing, yeah, butI do think the author did a
great job of showcasing thedrive of like young, passionate
(35:40):
professionals similarly to whatyou were saying versus the
pressure and lack of desire toput yourself in that vulnerable
position as you get older,trying to like keep up with the
times.
Yeah.
So I think the author showedthat really well.
I can't really think of anypersonal sentiments, of
something so high stakes or withlike monetary value, any kind
(36:02):
of partnership like that.
But in every partnership orcreative project, any sort of
group thing, you're gonna feel apush and pull, just because it.
I mean it would be weird if youdidn't, because people are,
we're all different so.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I can't think of any of any things you work so well
with so many people, though,that you are truly it's so funny
.
When we were reading this book,I was thinking about how much
Marx reminds me of you, becauseyou truly are like that kind of
friend, my favorite character.
But you are because you have,like, such a positive.
I'm just kidding.
(36:54):
Well, now I'm not gonnacontinue.
No, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
I appreciate that, but it's true because you have
such like a positive outlook.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
That's part of the problem with the book and maybe
that's because you are such apositive person versus like I
don't know.
Yeah, more of the negatives ofthe book, but, um, but how he's
such a good friend and, likeanticipates so many of like his
friends needs from him, withoutthem happy because they have a
hard time expressing what theyneed and just like meeting them
(37:22):
where they are.
We talked about this I feel likeyou do the same thing, though,
no, but you do it different.
Like it's hard, I guess it'shard to explain.
So I was trying to talk aboutthis like we were in the car
yesterday.
Um, how you are, you're reallygood at like meeting people
where they are and less aboutlike having expectations of what
people should be like or likewhat you wish they would be
doing.
Um, you have a lot of grace forpeople where they are in life,
(37:46):
but I think mark's also had to,so yeah, guys.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Michaela's giving me a big ego when I'm being
obnoxious.
Blame her.
No, I appreciate that.
Um, before I start to cry fromyour compliments, what role do
you think forgiveness plays inthe story?
Are Sam and Sadie good atforgiving each other, or do you
think their reconciliation atthe end of the book feels earned
(38:11):
?
Why or why not?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
So forgiveness is definitely a main theme in this
book, whether it's given or notgiven, it's just kind of like
underlying always there.
I feel like um.
I think that the author does agood job of showing the power of
like healing from forgiveness,as well as the detriment it can
bring if we hold on to a grudgetoo long.
More so the latter um.
(38:36):
But forgiveness doesn'tnecessarily mean that you have
to like keep that person in yourlife forever, which I think she
kind of shows with dov um, inthe sense that sadie kept dov
around for too long.
Like you could forgive somebodyand like move on from them, but
that doesn't mean that theyhave to continually be a part of
your life like you.
Two things can be true at onceto like let go of that grudge,
(38:59):
versus like with sam she washolding such a grudge against
him, and not to say that samdidn't either, but I'm just a
city hater, so we're gonna useher for my example.
Yeah, um, and uh justcompletely kicked him out of her
life entirely for it.
Versus like recognizing thatlike what she was really mad
about was more of a projectionof like her insecurities they
(39:23):
both needed therapy they did,they did um, but I feel like sam
learned forgiveness, more so bythe end of the book because he
struggled that obviously withthe beginning of the book,
whereas sadie just didn't at Atleast where Sam was concerned,
and I don't know if thereconciliation really felt
(39:43):
earned, but it did feel realbecause I felt like not, we
never get like a perfectforgiveness or people truly like
learn from their mistakes evenif they're forgiven, like in
real life kind of thing.
It's more having that wanting tokeep that person around in your
life, so accepting the personback by forgiving them.
But that kind of connected tolike this full circle moment
(40:04):
that I loved between, uh, samand sadie, from like how sam was
forgiving sadie from thechildhood thing of um, you know,
using him for service hours, uh, when he saw her in the subway
and that's when they firststarted their journey.
And then the full circle momentback to when Sadie was leaving
on the plane but she gave Samlike and test her of her new
(40:26):
game, just like she did way backwhen I didn't even make the
transportation connection.
But yeah, I didn't, until I wasprocessing this book later, and
then it kind of hit me in thestruck of realization and so it
was like that full circle, like,okay, sam forgave Sadie at the
beginning of the book and then,in a similar mirror of it, sadie
(40:46):
was then forgiving Sam to starta new game together.
So I liked that.
I did like the way that ended.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
But that then forgiving sam to start a new
game together.
So I liked that.
I did like the way that ended.
But that was my really, reallylong-winded rant on forgiveness,
so I'd love to hear yourthoughts.
I feel like forgiveness likeplays a role in the story, like
especially between sam and sadie.
Are they good at forgiving eachother, like yes and no, because
they forgive each otherthroughout the book, but both of
them hold resentment in manyforms.
So true, and I don't know ifthat can really be considered
(41:18):
forgiveness if there's a grudgethat follows, um, because it
doesn't have to be a forgive andforget, but it does have to be
like a forgive and like move onyeah, um, or if you are
continuing the relationship likeforgive and like grow and let
back in um.
So this is where it felt a lotlike sibling arguments between
(41:38):
sam and sadie because, like allthe memes with like sisters of,
like you took my shirt, like Ihate you, and it's like want to
go get starbucks, like they verymuch like didn't necessarily
talk about, like what they wereupset about, but then would just
kind of okay, we got the nextgame, like that kind of stuff,
um.
And then I do feel that theirreconciliation at the end feels
(42:02):
earned.
Maybe it's just because I'mlooking for the positives in the
story so I just um want that,and so, for me, if anything, I
think there should have beenmore, and but maybe that's the
author's whole point is to makeyou frustrated about both the
characters and our lack ofcontrol about what they do and
what they say, which, if that'sthe case, she did a good job of
making me feel frustrated.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
That's a great point, I do agree.
I wish that because it was theend and having a little bit more
of that true forgivenessbecause there was so much
resentment throughout the bookthere and like having a little
bit more of that trueforgiveness because there was so
much resentment throughout thebook there's almost like a
little reprieve and relief and Ihave resentment that sam never
met sadie's kid.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, true, what the heck sam.
That was ridiculous.
Well, no, not.
What the heck sam.
What the heck sadie?
No, because sam's the one thatnever wanted to go see sadie's
kid no, sam wasn't allowed atsadie's house because sadie was
like don't come to my housethat's true.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I'm really mad at sadie for holding the grudge for
such a long time over literallynothing, and I'm so proud of
sam for how he handledeverything after marx's death
and like giving her that spaceand everything.
But afterwards, um, when theylike met up, when he met her um,
when she was teaching at mit,he could have easily, easily
tried to see the kid or neverasked for a picture.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Yeah but that's not his place to ask for that.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
They just never talked about it.
So I guess it's on both of them, but that was kind of yeah, no,
that bothered me too.
Okay, a little bit more fun.
Which of the video games in thebook sounded like the most
interesting to you?
There's Ichigo Both SidesPioneers.
The video games in the book didsounded like the most
interesting to you.
There's like a cheat.
It should go both sidespioneers.
I think there's also master ofthe rebels, was the name of it?
Speaker 1 (43:38):
yeah, so I ranked a couple of them.
Both sides sounded the coolestto me.
Um, especially if it was aco-op game.
So that's like, if you've seenon tiktok the couples that play
the game, it takes two.
Um, it's a game on the switch.
You and josh should play it,where it's like you can't move
on or do a task without theother person doing something at
(43:59):
the same time.
So it'd be like you have topush, you have to jump on this
thing for me to go for, likethis gate to enter, for me to go
through, and then when I gothrough, I have to shoot this
block so that you can jump overthe block to get through.
So fun.
So I thought if both sides was aco-op game where, like, one
person was in the Maple Worldand the other one was in the
Dream one and they had to dothings to help each other, that
(44:21):
would be really cool.
Yeah, but I'm just adding tothe game, so I don't, but I
still that one sounded cool.
And then that followed byIchigo, because I really like a
story game, like followingsomething and having a goal.
Then the last one was thePioneers, because when I was
younger I would love games likeSims and Dress Up and your House
(44:42):
, but stuff like Animal Crossing, I don't know, that's not
really my thing anymore.
If I play a game that one Ididn't like that one.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
I agree.
I'm not an open world type ofperson.
I need an objective.
Um, I can't just like go on forfun.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
I know a lot of people find like relaxation in
that and the mindlessness of it,which is kind of like the whole
point if I think stuff likethat would make me sad because
it's like, well, I can't put anapple tree in my house, like
yeah, I wish I could do this inreal life.
Get a new couch, like no, but Itotally agree.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, my whole world would probably be at the bottom
of my list but, I agree, though,with both sides.
I think that would be reallyfun, and I really like the way
that you changed that to be liketwo-player co-op.
Yeah, love that that soundslike even a better way to do it.
Um, and then master of therebels was another one that kind
of intrigued me because I likea murder mystery and again
there's like a plot, but I feellike it's also a little dark, so
(45:38):
I'm like not sure how much Iwould really like it getting a
little scared.
I'd have to test it out and see, I don't know, but um, we
should definitely play bothsides together.
That would be fun yes, actually.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
So that game it takes two that I was talking about.
I got it because I was likejustin and I could play video
games together and justin waslike I hate this so now, um, our
friend shelby, she's beencoming over and now we're
playing it like I started it ona different profile with her and
we're like past where justinand I went now, so I was like
whatever now it's shelby in mygame I love that.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
No, I'm definitely going to have to look into that.
That sounds really fun.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I think you and Josh would really like it.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Okay, I'm looking.
I will definitely look into it.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Would you read another book by this author?
Speaker 2 (46:20):
I would, because I really enjoyed the writing and
the symbolism and I loved thefull circle moments and the
callbacks to the beginning ofthe book.
I think it really helpedsolidify, at least for me, the
meanings that the author istrying to get through to you
about the book, and I definitelythink this is one of those
books that's more about whatyou're taking away from it than
(46:40):
the story and escapism of it initself kind of thing which I
enjoyed and was expecting.
So I would.
I think I liked it.
What about you?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Maybe Depends on the description of the book and like
what it's about.
Yeah, I also think I woulddefinitely need a friend to read
it to get their insight first,before I like go into it.
Yeah, so maybe I won't say no,but I'm not like saying yes, it
changed for me.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
So then, what were your final thoughts?
Star rating.
Star rating was like a 3.5 itwas arguably a good book, but I
think just like and I tried notto feel this way, but it just
felt like the author was almosttrying too hard to make it feel
real at some points, or to makeyou feel sad and cry and, as
I've said multiple times, likewhat life is not all like
(47:34):
depressed, though like you'renot.
It's not all sad thing, so Ijust wish there was um a little
more evenness, sure um in it alittle more like yeah, light
yeah, just a little more light,because I don't know, I wouldn't
want to live in the world shewrote down.
There's way more positives thanthat.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
We just brushed over a lot of them, so 3.5.
It was good, but I was relievedwhen I was done with the book.
So that has to say somethingabout how I felt about it.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
I think it's totally fair.
I understand that one.
For me it was a five star.
That was a shocker, hey, butthat's what's cool about books
it's such an intimate thing.
Yes, I love talking about booksthat we agree on, but I love
talking about books we disagreeon more.
It's so fascinating.
Yeah, um, from like what I seeversus like what you see.
I just I love that.
So, but there was a five starfor me.
(48:26):
Um, I think it was imperfectand real, but that's why I liked
about it.
It had beautiful life lessonssprinkled throughout.
It almost felt like amodern-day fable to me, because
I feel like when you talk aboutlike Aesop's fables, like
they're not necessarily happyall the time.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
No, I really like that, but you have like the
message.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
That's what this felt like to me.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, like a warning of like friendships and working
together yeah.
So yeah, like friendships andworking together.
Yeah, so yeah, I loved it andthat's the book.
That's the book.
Not only is that the book, butthat is our last book talk of
2024 so sad and exciting all atthe same time.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
I can't believe we're already at the end of the year
it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
So next month we'll have one more holiday themed
episode to kind of close out ourfirst season of the podcast.
Then we'll be announcing ourfirst book of 2025 when we pick
back up in January with seasontwo.
Don't worry, we won't be gonelong.
And then also something reallyexciting is we are going to
start using Fable for our bookclub book talks.
(49:30):
So join our club through thelink in the show description.
You can also find the link inour instagram bio at lazy girl
library I really enjoyed usingthis.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
We kind of did a test run with this book and I
thought it was really fun it wasreally cool.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Um, again, we're new at it, so it might not be
perfect the first couple booksthat we do it, but we'd love for
you to join.
Yeah, it would be so cool yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Just come talk to us about books.
Yeah, Speaking of talking aboutbooks more.
What are we reading?
What are your borrows andreturns?
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Okay, so my only return is Tomorrow and Tomorrow
and Tomorrow.
Yep, because that took me awhile to get through.
That's okay, but yeah, anyway.
Now Borrowing is finale, byStephanie Garber or Gerbert
Garber.
I don't remember it's the thirdseries and the final book in
the Carvel series, so I'mexcited to be back in that world
(50:21):
I definitely needed somethingthat was like me after that book
.
So it's going really good andI'm excited and, without giving
like much away, the first bookis from like one sister's point
of view.
The second book is from theother sister's point of view and
it looks like this one is fromlike both their point of views
(50:42):
and they both have kind of likedifferent storylines going on
right now.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
So I'm excited, interesting.
I do have this series on mylist.
I own the first book and I amexcited to try it out for how
much you really enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, it's like.
Yeah, it just feels likedifferent yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
I'm curious.
I feel like a lot of theromantic fantasy books can start
to feel a lot of the same.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
So I appreciate that the concept of this one is a
little different, at least fromwhat I can tell.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Yes, I appreciate that the concept of this one is
a little different, at leastfrom what I can tell.
Yes, it is different.
They're not wearing any leatherbattle suits.
I love the uniqueness.
What about you?
What are you borrowing andreturning?
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Borrowers.
I'm just about done with HarryPotter and Half-Blood Prince
Crushing it.
I am reading these like a fiendoh my gosh, I can't get enough.
And so then I will be startingthe Deathly Hallows, which is
the last book in the series.
I'm hoping to have it finishedby the end of the year.
You can do it.
Thanks, I think I can.
I think I can do it.
But yeah, we're fully back onthe Harry Potter train and I'm
(51:46):
looking forward to finishing theseries.
Out my returns.
I only have one other thantomorrow.
Tomorrow.
Tomorrow it's tuesdays withmaury by mitch album.
I did this on audio and I criedalmost the whole four hours.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
I'm so glad you liked it.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
Oh my gosh, I don't know.
November is like emotionalmonth for me.
This the tomorrow, tomorrowbook made me cry and then, after
I've read that one, because Iwas still feeling like all the
like emotions, yeah in my feels.
I was like I need another good,like feely kind of book and I
remember you talking about thisone and that was really good.
So I was like, okay, let's trythis.
And it's like quick too.
Yeah, it was like a super.
(52:23):
I don't know how, like, howmany pages it is, because I did
it on audio, but it's only afour-hour audiobook.
So like really quick, reallyquick.
Oh my gosh, absolutely loved it.
It did it hit me right in thosefeels, had so many like where
this book talked about life andits negatives.
This book talked about life andso many of its positives, and
so I think this is truly one ofthose like everybody should read
(52:46):
it at some point.
Yeah, kind of books.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
I read it in high school and then, funny enough I
don't remember how this happenedbut then my English teacher at
the time had us read the bookand so I was like, wait, I've
already done it.
So I think it's such a cutebook and, like you just said, a
book that has such goodreminders that we all need to
hear, because someone told meone time that it's not
necessarily that a lot of usneed to learn things, but we
(53:10):
just need to be reminded thingsa lot um so yeah, such good
reminders it is you?
Speaker 2 (53:16):
will cry yes, but that's okay, it did it.
It definitely, yeah, made meemotional and, um, I think I'm
gonna make this like an annualread for november for me,
because I think it does have somany of those like good
reminders, like you said, likewe need to be reminded a lot of
these things.
It's not that you don't knowabout them already, but it's
just like the making sure thatthey're the forefront of your
(53:38):
mind or bringing them back tolike being conscious about a lot
of these things, and becauseit's such a short read.
Yeah, this is gonna be like anannual thanksgiving read for me.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
I love that.
I haven't read it since highschool, so maybe I should go
back and do a little reread.
It could be fun, so good.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Good, feel-good book.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Yes, and that's it.
That's it for this month's bookclub episode.
Be sure to let us know what youthought.
A lot of our at least ourmutual friends have read this
book, so I'm curious to picktheir brains.
So let us know in the comments,let us know what books you want
us to be reading for our nextbook club.
(54:15):
Um, you can dm us onlazygirllibrarycom words.
You can dm us on lazy girllibrary instagram.
Commented on any of thepodcasts?
Yep, like we're listening.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
You can also reach out to us on our contact us at
thelazygirllibrarycom, ourwebsite.
Join our fable.
It will be in the link in theshow's description, as well as
our instagram, so come join usthere so we can talk about more
books yeah, thanks so much forjoining.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
We'll see you next time, bye, bye.
Well, dear listeners, we findourselves at the end of another
episode and remember, the LazyGirl Library is not just a
podcast.
It's a community.
We absolutely love hearing fromfellow book lovers, so don't
(55:07):
forget to share your thoughtsand your favorite reads with us
on our social media.
You can find us on Instagram atLazy Girl Library.
Make sure to check out ourwebsite, lazygirllibrarycom,
your one-stop shop for allthings Lazy Girl.
Before we go, we want to take amoment to thank all of our
wonderful listeners, whetheryou're listening from your cozy
bed, on your way to work oranywhere in between.
(55:30):
Thank you for making us a partof your day and for being a part
of our Lazy Girl family.
So keep those pages turning,keep those imaginations
flourishing and remember thebest stories are yet to be
discovered.
Until next time, stay lazy andhappy reading.
Welcome to the Lazy Girl Library, the podcast, where
reading is a pleasure andcaptivating adventures happen
from the comfort of your couch.
I'm your host, darby, and I'mMikayla, and if you've ever
spent more time rearranging yourbookshelf than your priorities,
then you, my friend, are in theright place.
Episode 14 it's here.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Wow, I feel like we've kind of flown through this
year.
It doesn't feel like we've done14 episodes already.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
That's kind of crazy.
I know we're so good at this.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Well, welcome back.
Today is a book talk episode.
Yeah, so we're going to betalking about the book Tomorrow
and Tomorrow and Tomorrow byGabrielle Zevin, but before we
do, we're going to talk aboutour five-star, one-star moments
of the week.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I love this.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
So, darby, do you want to start us off?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Um, okay, I should have thought about this
beforehand.
Okay, my one star is probablythat I slept very poorly last
night.
Not good, not good.
My five star would be oh, Ifeel like I had something and I
(01:24):
lost it.
I think my five star would justbe like the time that we're in,
like it's crazy, but it's sofun and exciting.
And we just went to thislantern festival last night with
our like girl group and it'sjust so fun, like being with
each other and talking.
Yeah, I guess that's my fivestar.
You also put up your Christmastree too.
Yes, oh, my gosh, okay, justkidding, get out of here.
(01:45):
Girls Five star is definitelyputting up my Christmas tree for
the first time with my husband.
It's our first marriedChristmas and this is our first
big tree in our first house, soso sweet.
It was really cute, love that.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Thanks for the reminder.
You're welcome.
I was blanking what about you?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
what's your five star and one star?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
my five star was probably the lantern festival
that we did with her.
So unoriginal.
I'm just kidding, I don't know,it was just fun.
It's always fun to get together.
The weather's colder now, whichis nice, and it was just really
cool, like seeing it was a muchbigger festival than I was
expecting it to be it really waslike tangled level for people
(02:30):
who are, who don't really knowwhat we're saying.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
It's like the little paper lanterns and you like
place them in the water and theyfloat then you had like a
chance to like write on themwhatever you wanted.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
You could decorate like however you wanted, and so
people would put things thatthey're thankful for or like you
know some memorial ones yeah,letters to like loved ones.
They've lost things like that.
Just fun doodles, yeah, um, butit was really cool getting to
see like all of them and theyhad like food trucks out there,
and so it's nice to just gettogether, um, and spend some
quality time with the girls, soit's something different that
(03:02):
it's not like you do all thetime.
Yeah, so that was cool.
That was probably my five star,my one star moment.
Um, I have packages that I wastrying to send.
They've been on my to-do listfor forever.
I have been, uh,procrastinating sending them off
, putting them together, sendingthem off.
I finally, like have them alltaped up, ready to go.
(03:22):
Um, josh was kind enough totake them to the post office for
me and they wouldn't acceptthem because they were in old
amazon boxes that had an emptybar or had like an extra barcode
on it ridiculous.
I was so frustrated becauseI've sent them.
I've sent things like packagesthrough the post office before
in other amazon boxes, so I knowyou can like I've done it
(03:45):
before a thousand other times.
Why this was a problem this onetime Strange, I don't know.
But that was really frustratingbecause I thought I could check
that off my to-do list and itis now still on my to-do list.
So, ups, I'm coming to you next.
Yeah, we are.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Maybe next time you can like duct tape over the
barcode.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, I think I colored over them this time
around.
I normally do and I coloredover like the sticker ones, but
there are some that are actuallylike printed on the boxes that
I just didn't even think aboutbecause I've never had to think
about them before, but I guessit was a problem this time.
So they're all colored in.
I'm going to UPS to try to markthat off my list.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
No, no, we're going to send Josh again to UPS.
You're going to relax and read.
You're right, you're right.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So yeah, that was my one star, it was just annoying.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, I love our five stars.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yes and I hate our one stars.
But getting back into our book.
So, like I said, our book clubbook this month was Tomorrow and
Tomorrow and Tomorrow byGabrielle Zevin.
Really excited to talk aboutthis one with you.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, this is going to be fun.
So the book description of thisbook was In this exhilarating
novel, two friends, often inlove but never lovers, come
together as creative partners inthe world of video game design.
Come together as creativepartners in the world of video
game design, where successbrings them fame, joy, tragedy,
duplicity and, ultimately, akind of immortality.
(05:11):
On a bitter cold day in theDecember of his junior year at
Harvard, sam Master exits asubway car and sees, amid the
hordes of people waiting on theplatform, sadie Green.
He calls her name.
For a moment she pretends shehasn't heard him, but then she
turns and a game begins, alegendary collaboration that
(05:31):
will launch them to stardom.
These friends, intimate sincechildhood, borrow money, beg
favors and before evengraduating college, they have
created their first blockbuster,ichigo.
Overnight, the world is theirs,not even 25 years old.
Sam and Sadie are brilliant,successful and rich, but these
qualities won't protect themfrom their own creative
(05:53):
ambitions or the betrayals oftheir hearts.
Spanning 30 years, fromCambridge Massachusetts to
Venice Beach, california, andlands in between and far beyond,
gabrielle Zevin's Tomorrow andTomorrow and Tomorrow is a
dazzling and intricatelyimagined novel that examines the
multifarious nature of identity, disability, failure, the
(06:16):
redemptive possibilities in playand, above all, our need to
connect, to be loved and to love.
Yes, it is a love story, but itis not one you have read before
.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
You read that beautifully.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I was feeling myself reading that I was like I should
be a book reader.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yes, you should?
Yeah, absolutely, that was likethe enunciation.
Guys, come on Professionallevel over here.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Thank you, thank you um, but so we're gonna be
talking about our thoughts onthis book.
Answering wait, did you alreadysay this?
Oh, okay, good, we're gonna beanswering some book club best
questions about the book andgiving our final ratings.
So if you haven't read the book, get ready for a big old read
and recap.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, so just to preface, the reading recap is
just a high-level summary, soit's not going to cover
everything in the book, but justenough to give those of you who
don't really want to read thebook but still want to listen to
the episode enough context forwhat we're talking about, but we
do highly encourage reading thebook.
Also, with this book, I do wantto put out that there are some
(07:26):
trigger warnings when we'redoing this recap of talks of
like depression and massviolence.
So you know, just know yourselfand know that there might be
some themes that are hard totalk about.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Warning book spoilers ahead.
Please head to the descriptionand show notes to find where to
skip to.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
You have been warned so, to start us off, in the
1980s a young sam mazer andsadie green needed a pediatric
hospital.
Sadie's older sister, alice,was being treated for childhood
leukemia, while sam wasundergoing multiple surgeries on
his foot, which was crushed ina car crash that killed his
mother.
So having some selectively,having become selectively mute
(08:08):
since the crash, sam spends allthis time playing nintendo and
organ trail and other sorts ofvideo games in the game room at
the hospital nurses encouragesadie to go play with him.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Having someone to share games with causes Sam to
begin speaking again and thepair become best friends.
They find out that spendingtime with Sam or not they.
Sadie finds out that spendingtime with Sam can count as
community service, which isrequired for her bat mitzvah.
And Sadie begins tallying herhours at the hospital and though
she really values her time withSam more than fulfilling the
(08:43):
requirement for her, it's kindof like a game.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
So after her recovery , her sister, alice, was jealous
of Sadie and tells Sam when shesees him at the hospital about
the tally sheet, which deeplyoffends him.
And so Sam and Sadie stopspeaking and don't see one
another again for like six years.
But then the pair is finallyreunited by chance at the train
(09:08):
station in New England, wherethey're both 19.
Sam is studying math at Harvard, sadie is an engineer at MIT.
Sam is still suffering withissues with his foot and lives
off campus with his roommateMarks, who is an amateur
Shakespearean acting student andhas come to see Sam as the
(09:30):
brother he always wanted as achild.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Sadie impulsively asks Sam to play a test video
game that she programmed for asoftware design class and he
agrees.
Sam and Marks play the game andare super impressed with the
design.
Meanwhile, sadie's professorDove, a successful game
programmer in his own right,becomes enamored with Sadie due
to the game.
The two actually begin anaffair and Dove begins mentoring
(09:55):
Sadie on how to become a betterprogrammer.
Their relationship ultimatelycrumbles when the married Dove
decides to return to his wife.
Sadie falls into a deepdepression and stops eating and
bathing.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Sam then begins visiting Sadie and eventually
convinces her to program a gametogether with him.
So Sadie then moves in with Samand Marks as they convert
Marks' apartment into a gamestudio called Unfair Games, with
Marks as their official officemanager and producer.
So Sam and Sadie conceptualizethe idea of their first game,
(10:31):
ichigo.
It's an adventure game about achild lost at sea who must find
his way back home.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
With struggling to develop the graphics for the
engine.
Sam encourages Sadie to askDove for help and the two of
them, sadie and dove, begintheir relationship again or
resume their relationship.
But with dove's help sadie andsam are able to complete the
game.
Unfair games is offered thenthe choices between a super
(10:58):
lucrative distribution deal thatwill take away some creative
control of ichigo or a moremodest offer that gives them
more freedom over theircreativeness.
Sam and Marks kind of pressureSadie into accepting the former
so that Sam can afford theexpensive amputation of his foot
and prosthetic after his latestsurgery fails.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Ichigo then becomes a pop culture phenomenon and Sam
and Sadie become celebrities,though Sadie kind of bristles at
game journalist's sexistassumptions that Sam is the one
that contributed more to thegame and the company than she
did, even though she did most ofthe programming.
Further deteriorates over thequestion of how much Sam also
(11:47):
knew about her relationship withDov and his encouragement to
talk to him about helping withIchigo's graphics.
So Sadie then dumps Dov againand moves to Los Angeles with
Sam and Marks to establish theirunfair games company as a
corporate entity.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Marks and Sadie begin dating a little bit after
moving to Los Angeles together,and this development disturbs
Sam, who fears that they'regoing to abandon him if they
become a committed couple.
And also Marks pressures Saminto working on Sadie's dream
project, an elaboraterole-playing game called Both
Sides that takes place betweenalternate realities.
(12:24):
The game is a commercial andcritical failure, but the three
become motivated to spin off thegame's idyllic American suburb
of Mapletown into a virtualworld called Maple World, which
proves to be the company'sgreatest success.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Sam's jealousy of Sadie and Mark's relationship
and Sadie's discomfortdiscomfort with sam gaining
credit for their work furtherdrives a wedge between them
sadie then asks marks toconvince sam that unfair's next
project should be a game calledmaster of the revels, which is a
shakespearean themed open worldsimulator game that sadie
really wants to make.
(13:02):
Sam initially balks at the idea, and so Sadie develops the game
on her own.
But upon playing its demo, samreally compliments her work.
It proves to be another success, and Sam and Sadie go on tour
to promote it for the Christmas2005 season.
In their absence, an attackercomes to Unfair Games
(13:23):
headquarters looking for Sam,angry that he legalized gay
marriage in the Maple World.
But in Sam's absence, anextremist then murders Marx
before shooting himself.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Sadie, who is pregnant with her and Marx's
child, becomes a recluse andleaves the running of Unfair to
Sam.
Having already planneddevelopment for an expansion
pack for master of the rebels,sadie produces it from home,
programming in a likeness ofmarx, who recites soliloquies
from mcbeth, his favorite playin honor of him.
(13:57):
After giving birth, sadiesuffers from postpartum
depression but finds solace inan Oregon Trail-themed game
where she befriends a variety ofcharacters in the guide of a
humble pioneer and single mother.
Playing the game in seclusionover the course of three years,
(14:18):
sadie finally comes to termswith Marx's death and her role
as a mother.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Context clues also finally lead Sadie to realize
that several of her in-gamefriends, including her in-game
wife, are actually sam, playingunder alternate user ids sadie
then confronts sam, who admitshe programmed the entire game
called pioneers for her usingthe maple world engine, knowing
she would be drawn to it and itwould be a way for both of them
(14:45):
to kind of heal together aftermarx's murder um.
An angry sadie then cuts offcontact with sam.
In 2008, sadie then has dinnerwith dov, who tells her that
only someone who truly loved hercould have done what sam did
sadie forgives sam and the tworeunite, selling the rights to
(15:05):
make it should go three to athird party developer.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So they don't have to dwell on the past, realizing
that making games with sam isone of the only things that made
her truly happy.
The two begin planning on fairsnext game and that is the end.
And again, that's just a highlevel summary.
There are like so many detailsthat we're missing um from there
, but that's just.
(15:28):
It's the gist of it yeah,that's the gist, and so what are
your initial thoughts, michaela?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I loved this book.
This is definitely a top readfor me this year.
Uh, it's one of those booksthat, at least for me personally
like after finishing I justfelt so deep in my soul, um, and
it's one I'm going to carrywith me for a long time.
Uh, the story I thought was Ithought it was so well done
where it really mimicked lifeand even though it definitely
(15:56):
has a plot that it's followingas far as, like unfair games is
concerned, I felt like it wasalmost more mini subplots
throughout, as opposed to havinglike one overarching story that
kind of again like mimics lifeand there's a lot of
imperfections in the story andthe characters that I think just
kind of enhanced it alltogether and mimicked like life
(16:20):
and its complexities just sobeautifully.
I loved it.
What about you, darby?
I didn't feel exactly the sameway.
It's gonna be a good discussionepisode.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Um, I thought this was a good book, but I didn't
necessarily enjoy reading it, ifthat makes sense I could
totally see that um, a lot of itdid feel very like real and raw
, but for me I felt the authorjust had a sense of glass half
empty the whole time, like Ifelt like there wasn't a lot of
like positives like spoken inthe book or optimism in the book
(16:55):
which it did touch on a lot ofvery like hard and heavy parts
about life, but I feel like itreally just skipped over like
happy parts of life andrelationship.
So that's where I just likefell off and the pacing of it,
the way like it was read, wasjust hard for me to follow,
which I think some people reallyliked that being kind of in
(17:16):
that present tense the wholetime with whoever it was.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
But for me not, yeah, it definitely isn't.
It reads very interestinglybecause it almost does like
flashbacks mid-present tensewithout warning you that it's
doing a flashback or a flashforward, and then seamlessly
goes back into, like whateverpresent tense.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And you like don't know who you're like talking
about until they like starttalking Like who you're behind
the eyes of right.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, no, it was definitely like it took an
adjusting when you first startreading it, so I totally
understand that.
For me, though, I loved thatpart of it.
I think it uh, like I said itjust like mimicked life and like
how we have conversations andhow like I could be telling you
a story and all of a sudden I'mlike, oh wait, but you need the
context of this, so like I'mgonna go back and tell you this
yeah, a tidbit and then continueon it.
Kind of like mimicked that forme, which is why I kind of
(18:09):
enjoyed it yeah, but it can beconfusing yeah it was definitely
.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
I think it was just like different.
It was my first time reading itand I just wasn't like hooked
on that style.
Yeah, but again, like the storywas good but there were parts
of it that I didn't enjoy, sure.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Did you have a favorite part?
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I did so.
Marx yes, he was the onlypositive one in the book.
I love Marx and kind of likeone of the big reasons that
really kept me into the storywas his development, which I
know.
Sam and Sadie were the maincharacters, but like I could
have cared less what happened tothem, like all I cared about
was Mark.
(18:44):
And then also I really likedall the different video game
concepts.
They're really unique and I'mnot a huge gamer so I don't know
if there are games that areexactly like that it should go.
There's got to be a game supersimilar to that, because that's
just kind of like a story modetype of game.
But those were reallyinteresting too.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So I liked all of those.
I was into it.
What about you?
Uh, yeah, no, I thought thatwas really interesting too.
But I agree, marks was myfavorite, my tamer of horses.
Um, he's just like the bestfriend somebody could ever have
and had such a heart of gold,and I uncontrollably sobbed when
he died oh my gosh, that hit meso hard.
He just like I loved thecomparison to him as an NPC too,
(19:30):
which I think that stands forlike non-player NPC something I
knew at one point I had it and Ilost it as I started talking
about it.
I don't remember, but um,essentially like an npc is like
a computerized non-playercharacter.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
There we go.
I just looked it up.
I won't take credit for thatbut how like they compared it?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
because it, like you just said, like sadie and sam
are technically the main playersin the game of this book.
Um, and marks would be moreyour npc.
But you can't have a story or agame without npcs, like they're
the ones that keep everythingmoving, and I think that marks
did that and oh, so beautiful, Iloved him.
So sad, uh.
(20:14):
But I also did want to shareone of my favorite quotes that
just I don't know why this wasso profound to me, but it stuck
so like it was early on in thebook from sadie's grandma she's
the one who said it when theywere like still young and
visiting sam in the hospital andit just stuck in my brain and
it's going to be one that I'mgoing to remember for a long
time.
It's life is filled withinescapable moral compromises.
(20:37):
We should do what we can toavoid the easy ones, and I think
because I constantly talk abouthow life is such a grayscale
and we love to try to makethings so black and white, but
we really don't live in a blackand white world that it kind of
encapsulates that it's notsaying that you're never going
to mess up because there areinescapable moral compromises
(21:00):
you have to make in life.
That's just life, um.
But to avoid the easy ones, todo what you can to like.
Stay on the right path.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I love that yeah, I'm curious what your least
favorite part was, since youreally did enjoy the book um,
sadie, sadie drove me insanethroughout this book.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Um, at first I was like all about her.
I really liked her, I liked hercharacter, I liked how it was
written, like for young sadie inthe beginning.
Um, and sam was a little offfor me and like I wasn't a big
like sam friend or uh, fan.
But as the book progressed Ifeel like sam's character went
through a lot of characterdevelopment and growth, whereas
Sadie's almost regressed for meand she just became even more
(21:45):
irritating and annoying andfrustrating and like what are
you doing?
So yeah, she was reallyfrustrating.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
What about you?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Okay, specifically the chapter where they're in the
Pioneer game.
It was so long and for what?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Like it would have impacted me so much harder if it
was shorter, but I was like weknow exactly what's happening,
like so I want to counter argueyou on this one and I want to
hear so I think it was long, I'mnot necessarily element, it was
really long but I think whatthe point of the chapter was to
(22:20):
show the detail and developmentthat sam made for sadie and to
kind of show sadie's healingjourney and so like how to be
that long it was long.
Sorry, I'm too stubborn on it.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
I did not, but no, I like, get it and I get what the
author was trying to do and Iliked it.
I just would have liked less ofit.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah, I get it.
Get back to the point, becausethere's almost like too many
details.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
It's like I get it Like he put so much thought into
it, like I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I understand for me.
I'm such a details person, so Iloved saying all the like
little things.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Sometimes I am, but for some reason, in this
instance I was just like why dowe need to know that she got one
carrot or something like?
True yeah, like things likethat.
I'm like I don't, I don't know.
And then also the glass halfempty view from both like sadie
and and Sam for the whole book.
Yeah, but now I kind of have aglass half empty view of the
book.
That was my least favorite.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
What it makes you feel.
No, that makes sense.
Yeah, so this novel kind ofdepicts the complexities of love
and connection in many forms.
So in what ways does Sadie andsam's relationship, in your
opinion, blur the lines betweenfriendship and something more?
Speaker 1 (23:45):
um, so I had like notes on this a little bit
farther down for anotherquestion we're talking about,
but I think it almost gave moresibling like love for me
sometimes.
I think they had a bit of like.
I think sam had a little bit ofyoung love going on, maybe in
the beginning, like in thehospital, like because Sadie's
the one that really brought himout of that.
And then I think Sadie showed alot of love for Sam when she
(24:12):
compromised on the companybecause you could tell that that
was like morally and for hervalues, like she was really
aligning with the other one.
But because of her love for samand wanting him to be, uh,
provided for, I think thatshowed a lot of love.
And then, additionally, towardsthe end, when sam should love
(24:32):
for sadie, when he was basicallyrunning the company by himself
after marks and he was the onethat kind of like was moving
along, uh, but it's pretty clearthat sam loved sadie more, yeah
, in the book and I think sadiesometimes used like sam knowing
like his feelings for her.
So that's kind of like where Ithink the yeah, no, I completely
(24:56):
agree.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, um, I definitely see the siblings
thing more.
I think that's a really goodway to describe the relationship
.
Um, I think the key to sam andsadie's relationship is
emotional intimacy because, like, this is kind of like what dove
alluded to at the end of thebook when he said that, uh, when
he's talking to sadie about theway that sam program pioneers,
(25:18):
like specifically for her, andlike that could only be like
true love, that like did that.
I think it's because of theintimacy that you feel through
like forms of play and he knewlike so much about her
intimately through their timeplaying video games together.
But that didn't necessarily.
Intimacy doesn't necessarilymean romance and it doesn't have
(25:40):
to be romantic.
You could have a romanticrelationship and it might be
missing intimacy and you couldhave an intimate relationship
with somebody, but it doesn'tmean that has to be romantic.
They're, they're not.
I feel like intimacy andromantic feelings often get like
mushed together because theycan like you can't have a
(26:02):
romantic intimate relationship,uh, but that doesn't mean that
they're like one in the same.
Yeah, I think that was like thedifference.
Whereas, like she had sadie hada romantic relationship with
marks, but she had an intimaterelationship with sam.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
But sometimes I do question their intimacy, in a
sense of like they never reallytalked, though, about the
intimate issues for a lot ofthings so like Sadie not
bringing up the whole likeengine thing with Dove, and like
(26:38):
her resentment in varioussituations she didn't express
those feelings.
Sam didn't express anythingmedically about him and those
types of intimate parts of himto sadie, or like the whole
marks thing, like his fears, andI get that a lot of that is
like internal stuff, so you'renot going to share your deepest
(26:59):
things.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
But when you're talking about like this pair and
their intimate relationship, Ifeel like it was lacking so much
though, of an actualrelationship well, I think my
counter to that would be thatit's intimacy would be more like
vulnerabilities and likeknowing the in-depth person of
(27:22):
somebody's like thoughts andlike how they think, how they
feel, and doesn't necessarilymean that it's knowing
everything about the person andwhat's going on with them.
So like with um, at least, likewith sam and his foot, you're
right.
Like he's not expressingspecifically about like the
(27:44):
struggles that he's having, butbecause Sadie and Marks know him
so intimately and like hisfeelings that he almost like
doesn't have to, because youkind of already know that he's
feeling insecure about somethingor he's pushing through and
trying.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Does that make sense?
It does.
It's funny, though, that yousay vulnerability, because I was
, as you were saying that, I wasthinking like, yeah, intimate,
but it's lacking thevulnerability of them sharing
like the most vulnerable partsabout themselves.
So that was.
I found that funny.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I feel like this might be a difference for the
two of us and how we interpretit, because I feel like you're
much more of like an externalMaybe, and you process things
like externally versus likeSometimes Justin would very much
disagree, really.
Yeah, I feel like, at least forus, like when we're talking, I
feel like you're always likevocalizing your thought
processes and things.
Friendships are different.
(28:35):
Yes, which they were clearlyfriends Right yes, but they were
clearly friends.
Right for like, for like.
I'm much more of like, aninternal like.
I love to process thingsinternally first before I start
vocalizing to work it out.
So maybe that that can also belike the difference in how we
interpreted things too.
This is very true, but, uh,interesting.
But I do agree, though that um,definitely more of a sibling
(28:55):
relationship.
I feel that could bemisconstrued and I loved the way
you said young love for Sam.
I completely agree because he'skind of stuck in that middle
school relationship feelingthroughout the whole book.
I agree.
So did the book focusing ongames enhance your understanding
of the story or was itchallenging to kind of connect,
(29:16):
since we're both not reallygamers?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I think it enhanced it and that you didn't
necessarily need to be a gamerand I'm not a gamer, but I feel
like you play a lot of games.
Yeah, I was gonna say I feellike I understood, like I know
what it means to like, like whata sandbox game is, or like
story mode co-op, like thosekinds of things, like so
obviously I don't know like whatthe engine graphics are but I
(29:42):
don't know if, if I knew nothingabout games, how that would
change, but for my low levelknowledge of games, I think it
enhanced it and again, like Isaid, it was one of my favorite
parts was like learning aboutthe different games and I wanted
to play them.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yeah no, I agree.
Uh, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I couldn't even tell you sandbox what that means,
like I'm pretty sure, and videogamers correct me if I'm wrong,
but like minecraft is like asandbox game when it's like
there's not necessarily a goal.
So like um, it's just a sandboxlike play so, like in minecraft
, you're just building something.
So I'm pretty sure like um, likemaple world would have been
(30:22):
like a sandbox game, the sims asandbox game.
I think I could be wrong onsome of those, but I think, when
it's not like um, like a storymode is like, uh, like the
hogwarts video game, likethere's a story that you're
following, whereas sandbox gameis like there's not necessarily
like a goal, sure, like I thinkthe pokemon game is a sandbox
(30:43):
one and that's just like yourgoal is to catch them all and
like win all the different umbattles, but it's, it's like
free roaming.
I could be so wrong, I couldtotally be wrong, so I'm gonna
have justin listen to this andcritique me after that.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
No, that makes that makes perfect sense to me, uh,
but I don't have like some ofthat.
Like I play what I think I playmario kart and that's about it.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I'm not like I'm not big into the gaming world but.
I still like I think the authorthat you said did a good job of
like keeping it more high levelfor like people understanding,
and it did kind of dive deepinto like the intricacies of
developing a game, but not towhere somebody who has no idea
what they're talking about wouldbe confused, like it's still
easy to fall and you kind oflearn about the process a little
(31:29):
bit.
Um, and I thought that thehaving the gaming be like
symbolism of life helped youlike conceptualize and like make
the or make the concepts morelike tangible to understand and
like some of the symbolism of it.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
What do you mean?
Gaming was symbolism of life,like so okay.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
So this is why I loved the book, because
throughout the book, like I said, the whole plot is like this
kind of the gaming world and themaking this whole games.
But, um, when they starttalking about certain games, um,
like the restart for life andhow you can, oh, yes, yes, yes,
those yes, okay, they had likecertain like because you could
like.
You know you can restart a game,but like when marks died, like
(32:15):
yeah, that's the end of it likehe's there's no, there is no
restart for life kind of thing,which is why so many people love
video games, because you get tolive in an infinite world,
essentially.
But they had a lot of themeslike that throughout the whole
book that I think, by connectingthem to games, made them more
tangible for you to understand.
Good analogies, yes, so yeah, Ithink it really helped the book
(32:38):
more for sure.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, how does the novel explore the ups and downs
of working with others oncreative projects, and have you
yourself experienced a similardynamic in a partnership or
creative project?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
So I think the book shows more like how pressures
from the outside world oroutside forces can change a
working dynamic within a group.
I think that's kind of more whatit showed as far as a group
creative project is concerned,because in the beginning, when
they're working on Ichigo beforethey're unknowns there's low
(33:17):
stakes and so they're able toreally find their way Not saying
that didn't have like creativedifferences or tiffs or things
like that within the developmentof it, but because it's more
low stakes, they were able tolike take more risk with it or
they really were able to divideup the like um work between
their strengths and theirweaknesses um for, like sam
(33:38):
being able to do more of likethe creative art and for sadie
doing much more of like thetechnical developing of it all,
versus after ichigo became sucha huge thing.
The stakes were much higher forthem, which caused a lot more
tension and caused cracks forlike ego to creep in a lot more,
which is where, like sadiestarted feeling resentment
(33:59):
towards sam for the whole usingher for to get to dov thing or
for taking credit for herfeeling like taking credit um
for, uh, some of the programmingthat she felt she deserved more
credit for.
So I think that the higherstakes is what caused more
(34:20):
tension for them within theircreative dynamic.
Um, and although I've neverexperienced something like that,
I feel like we kind ofexperienced that a little bit
with the podcast, not the I haveso much resentment towards my
just kidding.
It would be the other way aroundnot that yeah, not the negative
(34:40):
part, but but like the lowstakes, like we're just doing
this for fun and we're reallyplaying to each other's
strengths, and like what we dofor this podcast.
That I think kind of like showsin the beginning of the book a
little bit too, and how we canconnect to that.
Yeah, just my thoughts whatabout you?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
what do you think?
Um.
So it was hard for me at firstto think about the successes of
working together creatively,because I feel like the book
skipped over much of that, yeah,um and focused more so on the
downs and the struggles and theresentment I feel like it was
almost like watching thebackside of water, where you see
like you know the successes arethere and you kind of hear
(35:18):
about them in the background,but you're focusing on the back
side of it, the technical sideof it all, where they're having
all these cracks and not thefacade yeah, but it just is like
how sad and boring is that?
yeah, like depressing, yeah, butI do think the author did a
great job of showcasing thedrive of like young, passionate
(35:40):
professionals similarly to whatyou were saying versus the
pressure and lack of desire toput yourself in that vulnerable
position as you get older,trying to like keep up with the
times.
Yeah.
So I think the author showedthat really well.
I can't really think of anypersonal sentiments, of
something so high stakes or withlike monetary value, any kind
(36:02):
of partnership like that.
But in every partnership orcreative project, any sort of
group thing, you're gonna feel apush and pull, just because it.
I mean it would be weird if youdidn't, because people are,
we're all different so.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
I can't think of any of any things you work so well
with so many people, though,that you are truly it's so funny
.
When we were reading this book,I was thinking about how much
Marx reminds me of you, becauseyou truly are like that kind of
friend, my favorite character.
But you are because you have,like, such a positive.
I'm just kidding.
(36:54):
Well, now I'm not gonnacontinue.
No, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
I appreciate that, but it's true because you have
such like a positive outlook.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
That's part of the problem with the book and maybe
that's because you are such apositive person versus like I
don't know.
Yeah, more of the negatives ofthe book, but, um, but how he's
such a good friend and, likeanticipates so many of like his
friends needs from him, withoutthem happy because they have a
hard time expressing what theyneed and just like meeting them
(37:22):
where they are.
We talked about this I feel likeyou do the same thing, though,
no, but you do it different.
Like it's hard, I guess it'shard to explain.
So I was trying to talk aboutthis like we were in the car
yesterday.
Um, how you are, you're reallygood at like meeting people
where they are and less aboutlike having expectations of what
people should be like or likewhat you wish they would be
doing.
Um, you have a lot of grace forpeople where they are in life,
(37:46):
but I think mark's also had to,so yeah, guys.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Michaela's giving me a big ego when I'm being
obnoxious.
Blame her.
No, I appreciate that.
Um, before I start to cry fromyour compliments, what role do
you think forgiveness plays inthe story?
Are Sam and Sadie good atforgiving each other, or do you
think their reconciliation atthe end of the book feels earned
(38:11):
?
Why or why not?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
So forgiveness is definitely a main theme in this
book, whether it's given or notgiven, it's just kind of like
underlying always there.
I feel like um.
I think that the author does agood job of showing the power of
like healing from forgiveness,as well as the detriment it can
bring if we hold on to a grudgetoo long.
More so the latter um.
(38:36):
But forgiveness doesn'tnecessarily mean that you have
to like keep that person in yourlife forever, which I think she
kind of shows with dov um, inthe sense that sadie kept dov
around for too long.
Like you could forgive somebodyand like move on from them, but
that doesn't mean that theyhave to continually be a part of
your life like you.
Two things can be true at onceto like let go of that grudge,
(38:59):
versus like with sam she washolding such a grudge against
him, and not to say that samdidn't either, but I'm just a
city hater, so we're gonna useher for my example.
Yeah, um, and uh justcompletely kicked him out of her
life entirely for it.
Versus like recognizing thatlike what she was really mad
about was more of a projectionof like her insecurities they
(39:23):
both needed therapy they did,they did um, but I feel like sam
learned forgiveness, more so bythe end of the book because he
struggled that obviously withthe beginning of the book,
whereas sadie just didn't at Atleast where Sam was concerned,
and I don't know if thereconciliation really felt
(39:43):
earned, but it did feel realbecause I felt like not, we
never get like a perfectforgiveness or people truly like
learn from their mistakes evenif they're forgiven, like in
real life kind of thing.
It's more having that wanting tokeep that person around in your
life, so accepting the personback by forgiving them.
But that kind of connected tolike this full circle moment
(40:04):
that I loved between, uh, samand sadie, from like how sam was
forgiving sadie from thechildhood thing of um, you know,
using him for service hours, uh, when he saw her in the subway
and that's when they firststarted their journey.
And then the full circle momentback to when Sadie was leaving
on the plane but she gave Samlike and test her of her new
(40:26):
game, just like she did way backwhen I didn't even make the
transportation connection.
But yeah, I didn't, until I wasprocessing this book later, and
then it kind of hit me in thestruck of realization and so it
was like that full circle, like,okay, sam forgave Sadie at the
beginning of the book and then,in a similar mirror of it, sadie
(40:46):
was then forgiving Sam to starta new game together.
So I liked that.
I did like the way that ended.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
But that then forgiving sam to start a new
game together.
So I liked that.
I did like the way that ended.
But that was my really, reallylong-winded rant on forgiveness,
so I'd love to hear yourthoughts.
I feel like forgiveness likeplays a role in the story, like
especially between sam and sadie.
Are they good at forgiving eachother, like yes and no, because
they forgive each otherthroughout the book, but both of
them hold resentment in manyforms.
So true, and I don't know ifthat can really be considered
(41:18):
forgiveness if there's a grudgethat follows, um, because it
doesn't have to be a forgive andforget, but it does have to be
like a forgive and like move onyeah, um, or if you are
continuing the relationship likeforgive and like grow and let
back in um.
So this is where it felt a lotlike sibling arguments between
(41:38):
sam and sadie because, like allthe memes with like sisters of,
like you took my shirt, like Ihate you, and it's like want to
go get starbucks, like they verymuch like didn't necessarily
talk about, like what they wereupset about, but then would just
kind of okay, we got the nextgame, like that kind of stuff,
um.
And then I do feel that theirreconciliation at the end feels
(42:02):
earned.
Maybe it's just because I'mlooking for the positives in the
story so I just um want that,and so, for me, if anything, I
think there should have beenmore, and but maybe that's the
author's whole point is to makeyou frustrated about both the
characters and our lack ofcontrol about what they do and
what they say, which, if that'sthe case, she did a good job of
making me feel frustrated.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
That's a great point, I do agree.
I wish that because it was theend and having a little bit more
of that true forgivenessbecause there was so much
resentment throughout the bookthere and like having a little
bit more of that trueforgiveness because there was so
much resentment throughout thebook there's almost like a
little reprieve and relief and Ihave resentment that sam never
met sadie's kid.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, true, what the heck sam.
That was ridiculous.
Well, no, not.
What the heck sam.
What the heck sadie?
No, because sam's the one thatnever wanted to go see sadie's
kid no, sam wasn't allowed atsadie's house because sadie was
like don't come to my housethat's true.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
I'm really mad at sadie for holding the grudge for
such a long time over literallynothing, and I'm so proud of
sam for how he handledeverything after marx's death
and like giving her that spaceand everything.
But afterwards, um, when theylike met up, when he met her um,
when she was teaching at mit,he could have easily, easily
tried to see the kid or neverasked for a picture.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Yeah but that's not his place to ask for that.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
They just never talked about it.
So I guess it's on both of them, but that was kind of yeah, no,
that bothered me too.
Okay, a little bit more fun.
Which of the video games in thebook sounded like the most
interesting to you?
There's Ichigo Both SidesPioneers.
The video games in the book didsounded like the most
interesting to you.
There's like a cheat.
It should go both sidespioneers.
I think there's also master ofthe rebels, was the name of it?
Speaker 1 (43:38):
yeah, so I ranked a couple of them.
Both sides sounded the coolestto me.
Um, especially if it was aco-op game.
So that's like, if you've seenon tiktok the couples that play
the game, it takes two.
Um, it's a game on the switch.
You and josh should play it,where it's like you can't move
on or do a task without theother person doing something at
(43:59):
the same time.
So it'd be like you have topush, you have to jump on this
thing for me to go for, likethis gate to enter, for me to go
through, and then when I gothrough, I have to shoot this
block so that you can jump overthe block to get through.
So fun.
So I thought if both sides was aco-op game where, like, one
person was in the Maple Worldand the other one was in the
Dream one and they had to dothings to help each other, that
(44:21):
would be really cool.
Yeah, but I'm just adding tothe game, so I don't, but I
still that one sounded cool.
And then that followed byIchigo, because I really like a
story game, like followingsomething and having a goal.
Then the last one was thePioneers, because when I was
younger I would love games likeSims and Dress Up and your House
(44:42):
, but stuff like Animal Crossing, I don't know, that's not
really my thing anymore.
If I play a game that one Ididn't like that one.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
I agree.
I'm not an open world type ofperson.
I need an objective.
Um, I can't just like go on forfun.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
I know a lot of people find like relaxation in
that and the mindlessness of it,which is kind of like the whole
point if I think stuff likethat would make me sad because
it's like, well, I can't put anapple tree in my house, like
yeah, I wish I could do this inreal life.
Get a new couch, like no, but Itotally agree.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, my whole world would probably be at the bottom
of my list but, I agree, though,with both sides.
I think that would be reallyfun, and I really like the way
that you changed that to be liketwo-player co-op.
Yeah, love that that soundslike even a better way to do it.
Um, and then master of therebels was another one that kind
of intrigued me because I likea murder mystery and again
there's like a plot, but I feellike it's also a little dark, so
(45:38):
I'm like not sure how much Iwould really like it getting a
little scared.
I'd have to test it out and see, I don't know, but um, we
should definitely play bothsides together.
That would be fun yes, actually.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
So that game it takes two that I was talking about.
I got it because I was likejustin and I could play video
games together and justin waslike I hate this so now, um, our
friend shelby, she's beencoming over and now we're
playing it like I started it ona different profile with her and
we're like past where justinand I went now, so I was like
whatever now it's shelby in mygame I love that.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
No, I'm definitely going to have to look into that.
That sounds really fun.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I think you and Josh would really like it.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Okay, I'm looking.
I will definitely look into it.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Would you read another book by this author?
Speaker 2 (46:20):
I would, because I really enjoyed the writing and
the symbolism and I loved thefull circle moments and the
callbacks to the beginning ofthe book.
I think it really helpedsolidify, at least for me, the
meanings that the author istrying to get through to you
about the book, and I definitelythink this is one of those
books that's more about whatyou're taking away from it than
(46:40):
the story and escapism of it initself kind of thing which I
enjoyed and was expecting.
So I would.
I think I liked it.
What about you?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Maybe Depends on the description of the book and like
what it's about.
Yeah, I also think I woulddefinitely need a friend to read
it to get their insight first,before I like go into it.
Yeah, so maybe I won't say no,but I'm not like saying yes, it
changed for me.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
So then, what were your final thoughts?
Star rating.
Star rating was like a 3.5 itwas arguably a good book, but I
think just like and I tried notto feel this way, but it just
felt like the author was almosttrying too hard to make it feel
real at some points, or to makeyou feel sad and cry and, as
I've said multiple times, likewhat life is not all like
(47:34):
depressed, though like you'renot.
It's not all sad thing, so Ijust wish there was um a little
more evenness, sure um in it alittle more like yeah, light
yeah, just a little more light,because I don't know, I wouldn't
want to live in the world shewrote down.
There's way more positives thanthat.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
We just brushed over a lot of them, so 3.5.
It was good, but I was relievedwhen I was done with the book.
So that has to say somethingabout how I felt about it.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
I think it's totally fair.
I understand that one.
For me it was a five star.
That was a shocker, hey, butthat's what's cool about books
it's such an intimate thing.
Yes, I love talking about booksthat we agree on, but I love
talking about books we disagreeon more.
It's so fascinating.
Yeah, um, from like what I seeversus like what you see.
I just I love that.
So, but there was a five starfor me.
(48:26):
Um, I think it was imperfectand real, but that's why I liked
about it.
It had beautiful life lessonssprinkled throughout.
It almost felt like amodern-day fable to me, because
I feel like when you talk aboutlike Aesop's fables, like
they're not necessarily happyall the time.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
No, I really like that, but you have like the
message.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
That's what this felt like to me.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, like a warning of like friendships and working
together yeah.
So yeah, like friendships andworking together.
Yeah, so yeah, I loved it andthat's the book.
That's the book.
Not only is that the book, butthat is our last book talk of
2024 so sad and exciting all atthe same time.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
I can't believe we're already at the end of the year
it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
So next month we'll have one more holiday themed
episode to kind of close out ourfirst season of the podcast.
Then we'll be announcing ourfirst book of 2025 when we pick
back up in January with seasontwo.
Don't worry, we won't be gonelong.
And then also something reallyexciting is we are going to
start using Fable for our bookclub book talks.
(49:30):
So join our club through thelink in the show description.
You can also find the link inour instagram bio at lazy girl
library I really enjoyed usingthis.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
We kind of did a test run with this book and I
thought it was really fun it wasreally cool.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
Um, again, we're new at it, so it might not be
perfect the first couple booksthat we do it, but we'd love for
you to join.
Yeah, it would be so cool yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Just come talk to us about books.
Yeah, Speaking of talking aboutbooks more.
What are we reading?
What are your borrows andreturns?
Speaker 1 (50:00):
Okay, so my only return is Tomorrow and Tomorrow
and Tomorrow.
Yep, because that took me awhile to get through.
That's okay, but yeah, anyway.
Now Borrowing is finale, byStephanie Garber or Gerbert
Garber.
I don't remember it's the thirdseries and the final book in
the Carvel series, so I'mexcited to be back in that world
(50:21):
I definitely needed somethingthat was like me after that book
.
So it's going really good andI'm excited and, without giving
like much away, the first bookis from like one sister's point
of view.
The second book is from theother sister's point of view and
it looks like this one is fromlike both their point of views
(50:42):
and they both have kind of likedifferent storylines going on
right now.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
So I'm excited, interesting.
I do have this series on mylist.
I own the first book and I amexcited to try it out for how
much you really enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, it's like.
Yeah, it just feels likedifferent yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
I'm curious.
I feel like a lot of theromantic fantasy books can start
to feel a lot of the same.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
So I appreciate that the concept of this one is a
little different, at least fromwhat I can tell.
Speaker 1 (51:11):
Yes, I appreciate that the concept of this one is
a little different, at leastfrom what I can tell.
Yes, it is different.
They're not wearing any leatherbattle suits.
I love the uniqueness.
What about you?
What are you borrowing andreturning?
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Borrowers.
I'm just about done with HarryPotter and Half-Blood Prince
Crushing it.
I am reading these like a fiendoh my gosh, I can't get enough.
And so then I will be startingthe Deathly Hallows, which is
the last book in the series.
I'm hoping to have it finishedby the end of the year.
You can do it.
Thanks, I think I can.
I think I can do it.
But yeah, we're fully back onthe Harry Potter train and I'm
(51:46):
looking forward to finishing theseries.
Out my returns.
I only have one other thantomorrow.
Tomorrow.
Tomorrow it's tuesdays withmaury by mitch album.
I did this on audio and I criedalmost the whole four hours.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
I'm so glad you liked it.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
Oh my gosh, I don't know.
November is like emotionalmonth for me.
This the tomorrow, tomorrowbook made me cry and then, after
I've read that one, because Iwas still feeling like all the
like emotions, yeah in my feels.
I was like I need another good,like feely kind of book and I
remember you talking about thisone and that was really good.
So I was like, okay, let's trythis.
And it's like quick too.
Yeah, it was like a super.
(52:23):
I don't know how, like, howmany pages it is, because I did
it on audio, but it's only afour-hour audiobook.
So like really quick, reallyquick.
Oh my gosh, absolutely loved it.
It did it hit me right in thosefeels, had so many like where
this book talked about life andits negatives.
This book talked about life andso many of its positives, and
so I think this is truly one ofthose like everybody should read
(52:46):
it at some point.
Yeah, kind of books.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
I read it in high school and then, funny enough I
don't remember how this happenedbut then my English teacher at
the time had us read the bookand so I was like, wait, I've
already done it.
So I think it's such a cutebook and, like you just said, a
book that has such goodreminders that we all need to
hear, because someone told meone time that it's not
necessarily that a lot of usneed to learn things, but we
(53:10):
just need to be reminded thingsa lot um so yeah, such good
reminders it is you?
Speaker 2 (53:16):
will cry yes, but that's okay, it did it.
It definitely, yeah, made meemotional and, um, I think I'm
gonna make this like an annualread for november for me,
because I think it does have somany of those like good
reminders, like you said, likewe need to be reminded a lot of
these things.
It's not that you don't knowabout them already, but it's
just like the making sure thatthey're the forefront of your
(53:38):
mind or bringing them back tolike being conscious about a lot
of these things, and becauseit's such a short read.
Yeah, this is gonna be like anannual thanksgiving read for me.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
I love that.
I haven't read it since highschool, so maybe I should go
back and do a little reread.
It could be fun, so good.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
Good, feel-good book.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Yes, and that's it.
That's it for this month's bookclub episode.
Be sure to let us know what youthought.
A lot of our at least ourmutual friends have read this
book, so I'm curious to picktheir brains.
So let us know in the comments,let us know what books you want
us to be reading for our nextbook club.
(54:15):
Um, you can dm us onlazygirllibrarycom words.
You can dm us on lazy girllibrary instagram.
Commented on any of thepodcasts?
Yep, like we're listening.
Speaker 2 (54:28):
You can also reach out to us on our contact us at
thelazygirllibrarycom, ourwebsite.
Join our fable.
It will be in the link in theshow's description, as well as
our instagram, so come join usthere so we can talk about more
books yeah, thanks so much forjoining.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
We'll see you next time, bye, bye.
Well, dear listeners, we findourselves at the end of another
episode and remember, the LazyGirl Library is not just a
podcast.
It's a community.
We absolutely love hearing fromfellow book lovers, so don't
(55:07):
forget to share your thoughtsand your favorite reads with us
on our social media.
You can find us on Instagram atLazy Girl Library.
Make sure to check out ourwebsite, lazygirllibrarycom,
your one-stop shop for allthings Lazy Girl.
Before we go, we want to take amoment to thank all of our
wonderful listeners, whetheryou're listening from your cozy
bed, on your way to work oranywhere in between.
(55:30):
Thank you for making us a partof your day and for being a part
of our Lazy Girl family.
So keep those pages turning,keep those imaginations
flourishing and remember thebest stories are yet to be
discovered.
Until next time, stay lazy andhappy reading.
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