July 27, 2022 • 45 mins
EMTs and paramedics step into someone else's crisis on a regular basis. In this episode we hear from senior paramedic Danielle Garavito about her career and how she tackles crises while also leading, coaching, and creating calm amidst a storm.
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Episode Transcript
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Jason Goldberg (00:00):
Most leaders experience a crisis a few times
in her or his career. We learnfrom watching and we learn from
doing, but there is somethinginnate within some leaders that
allows them to think calmly andclearly during a crisis. Even
more importantly, the very bestleaders in a crisis situation
are those who create calm amidsta storm. My guest today does
(00:22):
just that. Welcome
Voiceover (00:25):
to the leaders perspective podcast where we
talk to Triple Threat leadersabout the people products,
trends and experiences thatinfluence business. I'm now
pleased to introduce your host,Jason Goldberg.
Jason Goldberg (00:49):
Welcome back to the leaders perspective podcast
where we engage with TripleThreat leaders to learn about
their lives, careers andleadership philosophies, and
chat with our guests about a hottopic in society. As a reminder,
a Triple Threat leader is onewho embodies the very best of
leadership and who has strongIQ, EQ and a DQ intelligence
(01:10):
quotient, emotional quotient anddecency quotient. Today, we
welcome a very special guest.
She is someone I personallyadmire, and she is a hero to
many. Danielle Dwyer gara Vitoknown to her friends as Danny is
a leader who wears many hats.
She is the Senior TerritoryBusiness Manager of
cardiovascular sales for BristolMyers Squibb. She's a senior
(01:34):
paramedic with Westchester EMSin New York, and a senior
paramedic and member of themarine medic division with
Greenwich emergency medicalservices in Connecticut. If
that's not enough, Danny is alsoa New York State certified
instructor coordinator, whichbasically means she teaches new
EMTs and offers continuingeducation classes to current
(01:56):
EMTs. She is also the mom to twoadorable kids. All right.
Welcome, Danny. Thanks forThanks for joining us on the
leaders perspective. So I knowwe've we've had a chance to work
together for about five yearsnow. Not sure if many people
(02:16):
know but I'm, I'm a volunteerEMT. in Westchester. And I've
personally always respected andadmired your your style in
working and I think it's justyou're incredibly unique in your
field. And that you're you'reconstantly providing
exceptional, you're balancing,providing exceptional patient
care, you remain cool underpressure, but you're always
(02:38):
focusing on creating calm forthe patient and for the
patient's family. And, you know,I think that that absolutely
makes makes a Triple Threatleader. So glad Glad to have you
today.
Dani Garavito (02:53):
Well, thank you, that's all very nice thing, nice
thing comes in, and I trulyappreciate it. I do take great
pride in the work that I dogoing out there to help. And I
think the reality is that wehave to remember that we're
there to help. It's not ourcrisis or somebody else's
crisis, there's a reason thatthey reached out for it. And I
think many of us have aninherent note want to be able to
(03:14):
help others and then othersprobably do it for a different
reason whether that's to makethemselves a better person to
find ways to do something thatis unique to increase their
skill set. But it is crisis tocrisis, right? Absolutely. Every
day. Not all blood. It's not allblood and guts, a lot of what we
do is social work, and simplyjust letting people talk and
(03:36):
explain what their problems areso that we can find a solution
Jason Goldberg (03:39):
for sure. I think that that's a great way to
put it. So So tell us aboutyourself. Where are you from?
What are your hobbies? How doyou feel your days?
Dani Garavito (03:48):
Yep. So I originally was I was raised in
Northern Westchester, you know,little town called Crotona, I
was the mayor's daughter I kneweverybody which was great and I
think that's why I like workingas a paramedic, you get to know
so many different differentpeople but right now living over
in Connecticut, I have two youngchildren and married and we are
(04:12):
having a great time this summer.
So a lot of outside stuff pooltrips coming up and everything
else just hit me like this. Ohso important. I would say that's
pretty much like my hobbiesright right now school.
Jason Goldberg (04:26):
And so tell us about your journey. In the
intro. I gave a an intro to yourto your background spoke about
what you do for in thecardiovascular sales field and
paramedicine. So, what camefirst How did you get here?
Dani Garavito (04:47):
Actually, I came I came into what I do now
because when I went away tocollege at the University of
Maryland, Greek life, which isvery big down there, you either
join a sorority or a fraternityand That wasn't me. I wasn't
into Greek life. But I tried tofind another place where I could
go a group that I could join, Iend up joining the College Park
volunteer fire department, whichwas directly across the street
(05:09):
across route line. And thatbecame my fraternity. You know,
we actually just had T shirtsthat said pi row in the Greek
letters. But besides formingfriendships, and everything
else, it's really what truly gotme into EMS, especially in a
unique urban areas such asPrince George County, Maryland,
where it is so really diverse,and all different pockets of
(05:34):
people and stuff that I reallyliked. The idea of being able to
see something different andunique each and every time you
never know what EMS is going tobring in. That's how I got into
EMS. And I did that for severalyear, actually a couple of years
down there and realized after Igot hired, but aside from that,
I could go do this anywhere, andI yearned to go back home. So I
(05:57):
came back to the New York, NewYork area and got hired in
Greenwich, Connecticut, as aparamedic, that's where I met my
he was my partner on anambulance. And from there, it
sort of morphed into sale, therewas an old EMS box, we found me
and came back to me and he said,I have a job for you like you
need to go after this job insales. And he said you are a
(06:20):
people person, and you're ableto communicate effectively with
others. And so what I do like isthat led me into sales. And I
really think a lot of what I doin sales every single day is
reflected in how I handle a callin EMS and finding what is
important to the patient. Justlike what is important to my
customers at work, and how
Jason Goldberg (06:40):
what are you selling? How, what do you do,
Dani Garavito (06:43):
I'm selling a blood thinner at this time for
Bristol Myers Squibb. I'vealways sold in the
cardiovascular arena. So whetherit was with an anti platelet
hyperlipidemia medication, andright now I'm selling with
called a dual Dolac, for lack ofbetter term, one of the newer
blood thinners out
Jason Goldberg (07:01):
on the market.
Very interesting. So So youmentioned that your roles
overlap. And I found the same inmy career. Tell me how that
worked. How that you know, howthat comes about, and what what
you the benefits of of eachposition that you bring to the
other part of your life?
Dani Garavito (07:21):
So I think in sales, you know, you are or at
least I walk in blind, blind andsometimes especially if it's a
customer that I don't know, alot of my customers that I have
known for about 20 years, butthere are new ones always coming
into the area. And having thatconversation kind of feel out in
just a few minutes of time. Whatis their social style? How do
(07:43):
they accept information? How dothey exchange information, what
works best for them? Are theysomeone who is a driver and is
going to run what ourconversation is, or someone
who's willing to sit back andlisten and wants to be friendly
and, and know about my case inmy life before there's any type
of a decision made. And I thinkin EMS, a lot of it's the same,
(08:03):
we walk into these situationswhere we don't know what we're
getting, what the person islike, what their daily, what
their daily activities areanything else like that. And it
really is important in thosefirst minute or two. I hate to
say that, you know, we're biasedin one way or another. But we
really do have to make somereally quick decisions on how
(08:24):
we're going to approach asituation or this person. And
when that doesn't work, beingable to back yourself out of
that conversation, and figureout in that couple of next
couple of seconds. Alright, letme approach this from a
different perspective. And Ithink it's that ebb and flow
that we have with our patientsand our customers on a daily
basis that allow theconversation to happen, but also
(08:47):
allow us to actively listen, andnot necessarily respond to
everything that they say. Butlet them know that we're taking
interest in what they say. Andthen how can we best talk
Jason Goldberg (08:57):
are nice. All right, so you teach a lot right
you in in your world you you'reteaching new and current EMTs
your preceptor to paramedics whoare going through training what
what are your leadershipphilosophies in general? And And
(09:20):
honestly, when you when you showup on every scene, you have to
take charge from a medicalperspective and direct well
might be two or a dozendifferent people. So how do you
think about
Dani Garavito (09:35):
I think making each making each you know call
or anything that we do making ita teaching opportunity for
others is important. I thinkthat's what keeps people engaged
and wanting to come back formore. So whether I'm teaching on
a call, or whether I'm teachinga classroom in EMS, and I'm also
(09:57):
a district sales trainer, mysales rep is is making people
feel that they are engaged andthat what they have to say is
important and what they're theirthoughts and their opinions. And
it may not be the right choicethat we're making on a call in
that moment. But at some pointtalking about it and saying, you
know, what could we have donebetter? Or what did you like
(10:19):
about what happened on the call?
Or what didn't go so well? Andhow are we able to improve? In
EMS there are, you know,algorithms, and there's
protocols, and there's ways thatwe can handle certain
situations, a trouble breathing,a chest pain through a patient,
whatever the call is, but whatit really does is it provides an
opportunity, everyone has thestructure, but how we best
(10:40):
implement skills, orinteractions or moving the
patient, you know, from point Ato point B. But the joke in our
house here is that a lot oftimes we may be viewed as you
know, FedEx workers, our job isto move a package from point A
to point B reality is, is thatour our package was taught and
(11:02):
had feelings. And even people ina classroom setting or learning
environment, each one of thosestudents have feelings and want
to feel like they're beingheard. And if they're able to
engage in the conversation, and,and partake in the hands on
stuff, it really does make themfeel that they are completely
involved, rather than a studentthat sits back with their arms
(11:25):
crossed, like I don't want to dothat. So I'm going to reach out
to them. And I think my calls,we need to reach out to people
and get them more engaged, thatthey feel like they really are
Jason Goldberg (11:36):
truly ready. So you talk about calls in a very
calm way. Right? You've beendoing this for a long time. And
I think most people who arelistening don't have the full
framing of what these situationsmight look like. But you have,
you know, somebody, whether it'sthe patient themselves, or a
(11:56):
family member bystander makesthe decision to call 911. And in
that moment, that patient isprobably experiencing a
significant amount of fear.
Right, what am I experiencingright now? And what am I about
to go through? When thatambulance arrives and in the
journey to the hospital, andthen at the hospital, what's
(12:18):
going to happen to me, and theymake the decision that they need
help. And then there's a gap,there's that amount of time from
when they call 911. Until whenthe the ambulance arrives, and
the paramedic arrives. And thatfear sometimes amplifies during
that downtime. At least that'sthat's what I've heard from some
(12:40):
patients. And then you arriveand you have sometimes nervous,
you have nervous patients, youhave nervous family members
bystanders. So your pager goesoff, you get to the scene.
What's going through your mindin route, right, what's going
(13:03):
through your mind when you getto a scene? Because it's it's
their crisis? So much. Why arethey not moving when I have my
siren on, right?
Dani Garavito (13:19):
But I think walking up to the scene, you
know, we always do that scenesurvey, and just get a general
impression. But walking in thedoor and that patient sitting
there looking at you andeverything else. I actually do
use the word Hi, what's up? Whatis going on? How can I help?
Because I do think that putspeople at ease as opposed to
coming in like, Oh, you'rehaving chest pain, you know, it
(13:42):
just, I'm here to help you. ButI think you have to have that
relaxed attitude, or thatrelaxed persona. Because if you
get excited more than then it'sgonna get even more exciting.
And you hit the nail on the headbefore we said, you know, a lot
of times, it's the familymembers, or the loved ones or
(14:02):
the friend, whomever there thatreally are the ones that are
excited. And those usually arelike a second version, right?
The person you want to calm downmore. So the assessment portion
portion, though, is usuallyalways the same. You know, get
through your patient assessment,and that really does allow
(14:23):
yourself I think, to stay calm,because you're working through
in your head, you know, whatsteps do I need to pick? Now
granted, there's flack for that.
But I think even with the flexwe still follow you know what it
is that we're supposed to do. Ialways tell my students don't go
down a rabbit hole. As much asyou want your patient to talk to
(14:44):
you and give you information.
It's important for you to keepyour stuff in line in your head.
You need to drive theconversation. But again, it's
figuring out what information isimportant to the patient when
they want to tell you certainthings right up front Listen to
them, but then go back and dothe stuff that you're supposed
to do in order.
Jason Goldberg (15:05):
So you touched on something a moment ago, you
said, survey the scene. And it'ssomething that's just so natural
to many of us in this field. Butthat survey, you know, I,
whenever I teach a CPR class, Ijokingly, you know, say, Stop,
survey the scene, use all ofyour senses, sight, hearing,
(15:29):
smell, sometimes touch,understand, just just don't
taste and figure out what'sgoing on. And, and unlike TV,
nobody's ever, ever running intoa scene, except the new guy
sometimes, and then we have tograb them by the back of the
shirt. But that, to metranslates so much to the
(15:52):
corporate world, the businessworld, I don't care what field
you're in. Because wheneverthere's a crisis, oftentimes
people will overreact, ratherthan taking a moment. And
observing what's going on to tryto assess what's going on.
Because how many scenes have youcome across where you know
(16:12):
what's going on immediately bebased on your survey?
Dani Garavito (16:17):
Absolutely. And I think even in your initial
assessment, you know, what wecall in our world of EMS initial
assessment, but that generalimpression of what you like,
see, number one, like sick ornot sick, right, I'm smiling, my
colors, good. I'm laughing atmy, I always say, my students or
even people I'm writing with, ifthey catch on and like sarcasm,
(16:41):
things are pretty good in thatmoment, right? It's the people
who have what we call lifetimeeyes open. But there's no one
home, they're not responding toyou in the way that they should
be responding to you. I alsothink, too, that you know, when
there is a crisis, we don't needto recreate the wheel. A lot of
us have done this a long timeand have the experience behind
(17:03):
us that the wheel is there. Thequestion is, how are you going
to move that wheel forward? Orin the line of EMS? How are you
going to move the bus rollingthe ambulance forward, and get
them to the hospital. Butremembering that, you know,
again, there's a procedure,there's a way to do it. And you
have to walk the patient throughthat journey. That's the word
(17:26):
you've used, you have to walkthem through their journey, help
them through this journey, A, B,C, and step even after that
Jason Goldberg (17:33):
so many times on these calls, because when we
work in this field, we work inyou cover a very large
territory. That is what 20 mightbe 20 miles from north to south,
right? So it is broken into
Dani Garavito (17:54):
the 45 zone. Yes, but you know, it's an iPhone,
it's approximately eight counts,and it's about 230 square miles.
Jason Goldberg (18:00):
So there are obviously times where you get on
scene and you work withambulance crews, EMTs
firefighters, police officerswho you've never seen before,
you've never met before.
Everyone's been trained,hopefully to the same same
standards. But very often you'reputting people together who
(18:22):
don't know one another. How doyou manage that? How do you pull
teams together that have neverworked together before? And lead
those teams? And at the sametime? I know this is a compound
question, but at the same time,create calm.
Dani Garavito (18:43):
Yeah, so if you asked me to define my job, in
one phrase, I am ringmaster of athree ring circus. In essence,
right EMS fire and the police aswell. But making people realize
that our goal at the end is thesame number one, number two is
figuring out or even sometimesknowing what a person's
(19:04):
strengths are or what theirweaknesses are, there will be
times in speaking to a patientthat I realized that I'm not the
person who want to talk to you.
And it can be because maybe I ama female. They don't want to
interact with it with a femalein that moment, as crazy as it
sounds, but maybe they prefer totalk to a man and realizing that
you know what, the patient hasalready found a connection that
(19:28):
has an affinity towards youknow, the male officer who might
be standing there and gettinghim involved into it. Sometimes
there's even coaching thoughthat officer, but the reality
is, is that it's important forus to realize that in that
moment, we all have the same, weall have the same goal.
Sometimes it's also givingpeople who tend to get in my way
(19:49):
or get in the way of getting thepatient from set B or C setting
them out on a job. You know, Ineed you to go back to this
place or go Get this out of theenvelope because I do need them
out of that situation. Therehave been times that the EMTs
have walked in the door behindme. And I know the patient's not
doing well. But knowing thatthere's so many people showing
(20:11):
up to the house or that scene,and the EMTs come in the door,
and they're all happy to bethere, like, hey, you know,
paramedics, I'm here and I'mlike, like, just short second,
because that patient doesrequire 111 person. Moment. So
it's important to know what eachscenario or scene requires, or
how can we best get into
Jason Goldberg (20:34):
them. So what's your way? Right? You're You're
I've been testing a lot that youkeep people calm and you educate
at the same time. How do you howdo you keep? How do you create
calm, it's the storm.
Dani Garavito (20:53):
I think calm for me is letting everybody have
their space to do what their jobrequires. So as an EMT, they're
really should be coming in thedoor. They've been trained to do
a patient assessment, a good setof vitals, ask the basic
questions and everything else.
And I did this just the otherday two, where I noticed that we
were in the scene, and I walkedin, and the NPS were doing what
(21:18):
they needed to do right there.
They're doing the patientsegment, and I literally just
stood sit there. And I saidnothing. And it was one of those
things where, at the end, aswe're moving the patient out the
door, I said to them, You knowwhat, you guys, you're doing a
great job. And they're like,What are you stuff you need to
(21:40):
do to know you're doing a greatjob, the comments need not
coming in as like a gang buster.
And taking over the scene, thecomments me really letting
people have their space to dowhat needs to be done. And I
think that gives them theconfidence. And that also gives
the confidence to the patient,that these are competent people
that are here to help me thephrase of you know, as long as
(22:02):
you're nice to people, they'llforget what you did wrong. But
the reality is to in thatmoment, if people seem to know
what they're doing, there is acombat that come over in that
moment. And even with a lovedone, letting them get involved,
can you please get me a with themedication, you know, he's going
(22:23):
to need some clothes, when hegets to the hospital, can you
please pack a bag, we're goingto keep those things, things
that we will need to make themfeel that they truly are
involved in the situation.
Jason Goldberg (22:34):
I think what I found is tone in interacting
with everyone, whether it's mycolleagues are whether it's
patient or fat or their familiesgoes a long way. So that if I'm,
in some cases, you know, justserious and decisive, I'm
(22:56):
getting a certain reaction. Insome cases, I can introduce some
levity to the situation, and Iget a different reaction. But if
I show the slightest bit ofuncertainty or panic, that's
going to be infused into thesituation, that's terrible. So I
have to be in control of myemotions, and understand my pet
(23:22):
by the emotions of everyone elsearound to try to drive what I'm
feeling into them. And I thinkthat that's, that's something
important. I've seen the verybest providers do that.
Dani Garavito (23:39):
Right. And you'll see that in the morning at my
house is 730. When that bus iscoming down to three, right? I
lose my kid, you know, I can seethe panic on their face in that
moment. Their shoes aren't on,they don't know where anything
is, and the reality of theirshoes gonna be sitting there
right in front of them. But youdon't see them right? Because
panic taking over. And I thinkwhen panic kicks over in a
(24:00):
situation, we're blind, we don'tsee any right we see red that
moment. And we've got to getourselves out of that red zone
that we put ourselves into andwork into more of a yellow zone
where at least we're a bit morecalm or even a green zone like
Hey, I am good to go. Let's I'mwalking out the door mom and I'm
(24:20):
getting to the bus. And I thinkit's important for us to
remember we have to getourselves back into that green
zone. You know all all the time.
Voiceover (24:29):
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Jason Goldberg (24:50):
All right, welcome back to the leaders
perspective. We are we're joinedtoday by Danny gara Vito and So
many leaders outside of outsideof your world deal with a
crisis, every once in a while,it's certainly not, you're
stepping into somebody else'scrisis every day, right?
(25:12):
They're, they're dealing withone every once in a while, like,
hey, a little pandemic, and whatdo I do about, you know, people
in the office or my system hascrashed, or a particular product
is not performing, as well as weexpected? things, things like
that. Any advice for businessleaders, from somebody who's
(25:37):
expert in dealing with crisis?
Dani Garavito (25:41):
I think you need to trust your employees. I think
everybody wants to do a goodjob. Some of us want to do a
great job. But you definitelyneed to figure out what
motivates people. And I knowfrom especially during the last
like, two plus years that we'vebeen in a pandemic and my sales
job, we went dark in March. Andso I was home. And for us, that
(26:04):
was completely new, never workedfrom, I mean, yes, my office is
my house, but I've never had tostay home. Throw kids into it a
whole different next to but thereality is, is finding new ways
to be able to get the customershelp customers and everything
else and reach out to them. Ithink it's important to trust
your employees and and maybe nomore hope, probably, that
(26:28):
they're doing the right thing.
But you have, I think, if yougive everybody a sense of
independence, and let themfigure out, you know, how can I
grow? How can I get better? Howcan I make the best out of it
situation? It people will shinethrough, people will find what
works and what doesn't work. Andthere has to be the flexibility
to that as well. I think it'sunderstanding that no one
(26:50):
operates in the same boat. Andwhen things do change, and a
crisis kicks in, you'll noticesome people are all in, I'm
here, what do you need from me.
And then there will be somepeople who retreat a little bit,
want to survey the scene, seewhat's going on, and then we'll
figure out how they can bestplace itself back into this new
(27:12):
world that we've had, you know,from
Jason Goldberg (27:14):
home. Okay, so let's, let's talk about hot
topic right now, which is acrisis in EMS itself. At the
moment. And since the pandemic,we found that a lot of people
have been burnt out and havestepped out of the world of
(27:37):
emergency medical services. Sothere's a hiring and staffing
crisis right now in this fieldthere is in every field, but I
think it's actually worse in EMSthan many others. It's having an
effect on retention andprofessionalism. So what more
can you share about what's goingon and how your organization's
(27:58):
are combating that?
Dani Garavito (28:01):
I think the biggest thing that we're up
against, well, it used to bepaid, we have seen a change with
that, in the last, you know,year or two, where there have
been raises that have been giventhe minimum wage, you know,
being raised helped a lot inthose situations. I also think,
too, that EMS is seen as astepping stone for many, I want
(28:24):
to become a firefighter orpolice officer to get into
nursing or other areas of healthcare. And being an EMT, or in
EMS is usually that firstopportunity to get patient care
or direct patient contact hours,we're going to use it for that
reason. So we have people formany people for a very short
period of time, because it isn'tstepping stone and then moving
(28:46):
on to something else. The otherissue we have, though, is I
don't want to say a lack ofeducation. But in EMS, there is
a requirement there is a need tohave critical thinking skills,
you know, critical decisionmaking skill. And a lot of
people don't come to the tablewith that skill set. I think you
(29:09):
learn it over a period of timeyou're learning from being
placed in certain situations,interacting with different
people, but being able toprioritize what is important,
and what is not so important, isa big part of EBMs because
that's what we do. We triage outin situations and stuff like
that. It also goes beyond thefact that you know the age
(29:33):
spectrum in EMS. We have a lotof depth dinosaurs that fit the
criteria of a dinosaur, believeit or not. But the reality is we
also have very young folks inEMS now that really aren't sure
what they want to do and they'relike their testing. It's out.
They went to class for three orfour months. They got their EMP.
(29:53):
Now they are an a&p to get thejob on the AMA. And that's
really where they figured out isthis for me or not? We not only
need to recruit people in EMS,and give opportunities to
younger folks before they evenget the EMT class, but I'm
talking middle school and highschool, to give them a skill set
of being able to make adifference and make a critical
(30:17):
decision in a second that theymay be able to get, whether it's
through groups in school, mocktrial competition could be a big
one, you know, drama, thingswhere it forces them to
constantly be thinking and notjust sit back and wait type of
thing,
Jason Goldberg (30:36):
I actually think it's been getting worse, in that
the ability to make criticaldecisions and interact, we have
to form a relationship withanyone that we see on scene. And
that skill is being is is beinglost in this. In this world,
where students had been inschool virtually for for a few
(30:59):
years, and, you know, people arespending more time at home on
their phones interactingelectronically, there is no
interacting over the phone. InEMS, it just doesn't exist, you
have to form this report person.
So that's a skill definitelywith people coming out of school
that that's being lost.
Dani Garavito (31:21):
Absolutely, I mean, I had an EMP the other
day, we had a conversation, shewas gonna follow up with me
about something. And she's like,Oh, I'll be sure to catch you.
Later, I looked at her and Ilaughed, and I could just call
me that even that conversationwill go so much harder. I
thought to myself and her justshooting out in practice, he
would be like, Yes, I'll get theinformation. But the reality is,
(31:44):
is I want to hear the inflectionof voice, I want to know, you
know, what a feeling is aboutthe information. And I think
that carries a lot when there'sjust a conversation that you
don't get, but so many, so manypeople are relying on devices
and everything else, and even oncalls, right? Staring at the
iPad, if you're putting patientinformation. And you know, I
tell him, I take pictures ofstuff. You know, like the
(32:05):
patient's drivers like stufflike that with the iPad. And
there's no in later, there hasto be the communication skills
there. I
Jason Goldberg (32:13):
picked up the phone and called somebody the
other day for for a businessmeeting. And I just needed to
follow up and personally answerthe phone. They said, wow, they
said phone call this old school.
Logic very. So, you know, howdoes it again, in this world,
(32:35):
there is also a mix of paid andvolunteer. So how does
volunteerism come into play? Inall of this? And is it making
things better or worse?
Dani Garavito (32:51):
Oh, I think we'd make it better no matter what,
I'll take extra hands on a callany day of the week. But the
reality is, is that there's alot of turnover with the
volunteers, you know, someonecomes into an organization they
want to ride they want to docalls, maybe it's not a busy
service, or they're not gettingany calls and they want to go
(33:13):
somewhere else. The other issuewe have with the volunteers
though, is that they need topeople need to work people go
out to their jobs everyday to orvolunteering needs time away
from from your family duringyour downtime at home and
everything else because you'rerunning out the door because of
a call and the pager going off.
But I think we also don't haveinto a lot of groups, you know,
(33:33):
especially in your area groupsthat are there that are looking
to not only volunteer, but maybeget into just EMS in general as
a paid person. And I know I'vealways said that there's a
there's a population in NorthernWestchester that looking for
work that doesn't necessarilywant to go out every day and do
hard labor out in out in theroad or in people's yards and
(33:56):
stuff like that, and offeringeducational opportunities to
others who are able to work butare just looking to do something
else and give them a differentskill set. And I think also too,
is that we have to realize thatthe demographics are changing in
some areas, people are speakingdifferent languages. A lot of
our volunteers, you know, speakone language don't speak many
(34:20):
rarely do I get volunteer tospeak multiple languages. But I
think it's important for us tosort of grow our group so that
when we do have a patient from adifferent background or speaking
a different language, that we'rebest able to help them if we can
better.
Jason Goldberg (34:40):
But But all of this all of what you've said
raises a serious issue which iswe need people who want to
serve. You need people who havecritical thinking skills, who
are intelligent, who have deepmath skills. In many cases, you
(35:01):
have to do math to actually domath in this in this field, who
have good interpersonal skills.
It's also a physical job, maybebe bilingual, this, these are a
lot of things. And then when youlook at, forget, volunteer, when
you look at what EMTs andparamedics are paid in this
(35:22):
country, that in and of itselfis a crisis, and everyone should
know that the people that areshowing up at your door to help
you when you call 911 are notdoing this for the money,
because they're not makingnearly enough money, and they're
(35:43):
not paid enough. And sorecruiting into this world is
incredibly difficult. Andrecruiting the people with the
best skills, certainly even moredifficult. So as you said, it's
a stepping stone. So when you doget those very best people and
I've seen them come through,they're on their way to, you
know, to corporate world or ontheir way to PA school, or
(36:07):
medical school or somethingelse. And, and even for the high
school students, some of whomare exceptional, are doing this
to help them get into college.
So it's very difficult. And Ithink our country has to do a
better job in thinking aboutcompensation in these critical
(36:31):
in this critical area.
Dani Garavito (36:35):
Yeah, they definitely need to be
incentivized to become into theworld of EMS, you know, and I
think in a lot of jobs, not justEMS, and a lot of jobs, you
know, and entry jobs and stufflike that, probably not paying
people what they should bemaking. But I think the reality
is, too is that, you know, it'salso important to have a loyalty
(36:57):
to the company that you'reworking for, to put in time to
be compensated well over theyears, have an opportunity to
get, you know, assessments doneor a review, and get a raise as
well. And I think employers oweit to their employees to really,
truly give feedback and let itbe a 360, the feedback managers
(37:22):
and employees and also offeredthe opportunity, though, to
whether they get, you know,promoted to a supervisor spot or
a senior medic or whether they,you know, just get off and what
they're making per hour.
Jason Goldberg (37:38):
So, last question for you. Can you tell
us about one to two leaders whoyou've learned from along the
way? either good or bad, right?
We see leaders sometimes who arenot great leaders, and we
learned what what not to do buteither good or bad? What did
what did they teach? Who werethey? Who were they? And what
did they teach you?
Dani Garavito (37:59):
So I did have a guy when I was at the University
of Maryland, who he he ran thecentral Judicial Board, which I
was on, it was a board thatsuspended expelled students from
the university for variousreasons. But John Zacher, was
one of those people who did agreat job and getting us
together as a group, becausethat's what we function that
(38:21):
usually was a panel of three orfour of us. And we all listen to
the same story of what hadhappened with that student or
what went on in that incident.
And the thing though, is, isthat we all have our own
interpretation of things when wedon't get to see it firsthand.
And John was very good atgetting us together as a group,
and taking all of the differentperspectives of the three or
(38:42):
four of us that were sitting onthe panel, and giving us an
opportunity to talk about whatwe saw, which then provided a
different opportunity to thepeople that you were sitting
with. And a lot of times ifpeople don't hear it from
somebody else, yes, you can hearit from the student, but then to
how I process the informationthat I got from a student and
(39:03):
what my feedback was, thatreally made a difference. You
sometimes just need to hear it asecond time. And what I was able
to infer from a conversation,then allow them to realize, Oh,
I didn't pick up on that.
Because so many times when welisten to other speak, we're
constantly thinking of how can Irespond? But when you look at it
(39:25):
from different perspectives,it's not how can I respond to
it? It's Sorry, what else do Ineed to know? So I would say
that guy, John Bakker at thatcentral leadership board was one
of them who really led us tomake a decision that weren't
just cut and dry. But looking atall different perspectives of
what the problem was or what theissue was. Because in the end,
(39:46):
it's a person you're making adecision about, and that's what
could be at the forefrontyounger person. John, thank you.
Number two would be my dash. Imean, It seems like the most
obvious answer to say andeverything else. But I think the
reason is just, my dad was oneof those who just could look at
(40:07):
facts, or listen to people, orcome up with a decision that was
maybe not quite what everyoneelse expected in the moment. And
I think a lot of that has to dowith experience, I don't think
we value the experience thatpeople have some time, or what
they actually planned for thetable. I think when people
(40:28):
approach a table with a group ofpeople, they know what they
have. And they may have atendency to just think about
what they're able to bring. Butyou need to understand that
sometimes it's what other peoplebring to the table. Maybe
they've done that for 2025years, I look at myself as a
paramedic, you know, and I jokeon scene, and I've only done
this for 25 years. But it's alsoknowing that sometimes we need
(40:52):
to know how to actually getsomebody you know, we need to
get this cement block off ofthis person's leg. And there's
maybe somebody in the crowd whoknows how to do that. So one
thing my dad is very good at isappreciating others experience
to come up with a decision thatwould be best for everyone, and
then moving forward with it.
Jason Goldberg (41:12):
So I like him.
Fantastic. I love that. Well,Danny, thank you so much for for
spending the time with us today.
We we've learned a lot and a youwere beyond humble. You are a
true hero in our community. Andand thank you for your service
and for all that you do.
Dani Garavito (41:33):
Thank you. Thank you for having me. This is truly
a pleasure. Thanks
Jason Goldberg (41:35):
again. Thank you again to Danny Dwyer, Dara Vito
for joining us today she isabsolutely being humble and an
extreme professional. I havepersonally witnessed Danny
handle patients in crisis andextraordinary traumas, and
(41:56):
cardiac arrests with with withthe utmost of, of calm and
professionalism, while makingpatients feel better and feel
connected with with the team. Soshe's a phenomenal provider. And
we were very lucky to hear fromher today. As always, at the end
(42:17):
of the leaders perspective,podcasts, I like to recap a few
things that we learned from fromour guests. And so I captured
four things that that I learnedfrom from Danny today. First is
assess the scene, assess thesituation, don't rush in, take a
(42:39):
moment, think about what's goingon. And then you can empower
your people and appreciate yourpeople to take charge. But take
that time, assess what's goingon. And don't rush right in,
you'll have a better outcomewhen you do that. connected to
(43:00):
that. You don't always need tointervene when others have a
situation under control, monitorand assess their performance.
But if they're doing a good job,let them get it done. The third,
listen to what people aresaying, listen carefully. But
don't listen to react. Listenfor facts, and listen for
(43:24):
context. Perhaps there's asolution to a problem that isn't
cut and dry. And that can beapplied to the situation. So
again, listen, not to react. Butlisten for facts and context so
that you can come out with thebest solution. And lastly, make
(43:47):
every interaction a teachingopportunity. And I love this
one. And it's it's often it'ssomething that I personally talk
about a lot with people when Italk about leadership, it keeps
people engaged. So let peoplemanage, then talk afterwards,
regroup and talk about whetherthings could have been done
differently or more efficiently.
In the medical world, there is aphrase called see one do one
(44:10):
teach one. And I love that inbusiness as well. You're
basically seeing a procedure,you're doing it once yourself,
and then you're teachingsomebody else and it is the
notion that everyone is a mentorand a mentee at every stage in
their career. So this was thiswas a wonderful episode of the
(44:33):
leaders perspective. Again,thank you very much to Danny
Gary Vito for joining us. Thankyou for listening to the leaders
perspective podcast. As always,have a great day and be your
best self.
Voiceover (44:52):
Thanks for listening to the leaders perspective
podcast, brought to you by acell advisors visit SL dash
advisors.com For moreinformation about our growth
turnaround, optimization risk inHR Advisory Services LLC, and is
(45:15):
available on YouTube, Apple andSpotify
Most leaders experience a crisis a few times
in her or his career. We learnfrom watching and we learn from
doing, but there is somethinginnate within some leaders that
allows them to think calmly andclearly during a crisis. Even
more importantly, the very bestleaders in a crisis situation
are those who create calm amidsta storm. My guest today does
(00:22):
just that. Welcome
Voiceover (00:25):
to the leaders perspective podcast where we
talk to Triple Threat leadersabout the people products,
trends and experiences thatinfluence business. I'm now
pleased to introduce your host,Jason Goldberg.
Jason Goldberg (00:49):
Welcome back to the leaders perspective podcast
where we engage with TripleThreat leaders to learn about
their lives, careers andleadership philosophies, and
chat with our guests about a hottopic in society. As a reminder,
a Triple Threat leader is onewho embodies the very best of
leadership and who has strongIQ, EQ and a DQ intelligence
(01:10):
quotient, emotional quotient anddecency quotient. Today, we
welcome a very special guest.
She is someone I personallyadmire, and she is a hero to
many. Danielle Dwyer gara Vitoknown to her friends as Danny is
a leader who wears many hats.
She is the Senior TerritoryBusiness Manager of
cardiovascular sales for BristolMyers Squibb. She's a senior
(01:34):
paramedic with Westchester EMSin New York, and a senior
paramedic and member of themarine medic division with
Greenwich emergency medicalservices in Connecticut. If
that's not enough, Danny is alsoa New York State certified
instructor coordinator, whichbasically means she teaches new
EMTs and offers continuingeducation classes to current
(01:56):
EMTs. She is also the mom to twoadorable kids. All right.
Welcome, Danny. Thanks forThanks for joining us on the
leaders perspective. So I knowwe've we've had a chance to work
together for about five yearsnow. Not sure if many people
(02:16):
know but I'm, I'm a volunteerEMT. in Westchester. And I've
personally always respected andadmired your your style in
working and I think it's justyou're incredibly unique in your
field. And that you're you'reconstantly providing
exceptional, you're balancing,providing exceptional patient
care, you remain cool underpressure, but you're always
(02:38):
focusing on creating calm forthe patient and for the
patient's family. And, you know,I think that that absolutely
makes makes a Triple Threatleader. So glad Glad to have you
today.
Dani Garavito (02:53):
Well, thank you, that's all very nice thing, nice
thing comes in, and I trulyappreciate it. I do take great
pride in the work that I dogoing out there to help. And I
think the reality is that wehave to remember that we're
there to help. It's not ourcrisis or somebody else's
crisis, there's a reason thatthey reached out for it. And I
think many of us have aninherent note want to be able to
(03:14):
help others and then othersprobably do it for a different
reason whether that's to makethemselves a better person to
find ways to do something thatis unique to increase their
skill set. But it is crisis tocrisis, right? Absolutely. Every
day. Not all blood. It's not allblood and guts, a lot of what we
do is social work, and simplyjust letting people talk and
(03:36):
explain what their problems areso that we can find a solution
Jason Goldberg (03:39):
for sure. I think that that's a great way to
put it. So So tell us aboutyourself. Where are you from?
What are your hobbies? How doyou feel your days?
Dani Garavito (03:48):
Yep. So I originally was I was raised in
Northern Westchester, you know,little town called Crotona, I
was the mayor's daughter I kneweverybody which was great and I
think that's why I like workingas a paramedic, you get to know
so many different differentpeople but right now living over
in Connecticut, I have two youngchildren and married and we are
(04:12):
having a great time this summer.
So a lot of outside stuff pooltrips coming up and everything
else just hit me like this. Ohso important. I would say that's
pretty much like my hobbiesright right now school.
Jason Goldberg (04:26):
And so tell us about your journey. In the
intro. I gave a an intro to yourto your background spoke about
what you do for in thecardiovascular sales field and
paramedicine. So, what camefirst How did you get here?
Dani Garavito (04:47):
Actually, I came I came into what I do now
because when I went away tocollege at the University of
Maryland, Greek life, which isvery big down there, you either
join a sorority or a fraternityand That wasn't me. I wasn't
into Greek life. But I tried tofind another place where I could
go a group that I could join, Iend up joining the College Park
volunteer fire department, whichwas directly across the street
(05:09):
across route line. And thatbecame my fraternity. You know,
we actually just had T shirtsthat said pi row in the Greek
letters. But besides formingfriendships, and everything
else, it's really what truly gotme into EMS, especially in a
unique urban areas such asPrince George County, Maryland,
where it is so really diverse,and all different pockets of
(05:34):
people and stuff that I reallyliked. The idea of being able to
see something different andunique each and every time you
never know what EMS is going tobring in. That's how I got into
EMS. And I did that for severalyear, actually a couple of years
down there and realized after Igot hired, but aside from that,
I could go do this anywhere, andI yearned to go back home. So I
(05:57):
came back to the New York, NewYork area and got hired in
Greenwich, Connecticut, as aparamedic, that's where I met my
he was my partner on anambulance. And from there, it
sort of morphed into sale, therewas an old EMS box, we found me
and came back to me and he said,I have a job for you like you
need to go after this job insales. And he said you are a
(06:20):
people person, and you're ableto communicate effectively with
others. And so what I do like isthat led me into sales. And I
really think a lot of what I doin sales every single day is
reflected in how I handle a callin EMS and finding what is
important to the patient. Justlike what is important to my
customers at work, and how
Jason Goldberg (06:40):
what are you selling? How, what do you do,
Dani Garavito (06:43):
I'm selling a blood thinner at this time for
Bristol Myers Squibb. I'vealways sold in the
cardiovascular arena. So whetherit was with an anti platelet
hyperlipidemia medication, andright now I'm selling with
called a dual Dolac, for lack ofbetter term, one of the newer
blood thinners out
Jason Goldberg (07:01):
on the market.
Very interesting. So So youmentioned that your roles
overlap. And I found the same inmy career. Tell me how that
worked. How that you know, howthat comes about, and what what
you the benefits of of eachposition that you bring to the
other part of your life?
Dani Garavito (07:21):
So I think in sales, you know, you are or at
least I walk in blind, blind andsometimes especially if it's a
customer that I don't know, alot of my customers that I have
known for about 20 years, butthere are new ones always coming
into the area. And having thatconversation kind of feel out in
just a few minutes of time. Whatis their social style? How do
(07:43):
they accept information? How dothey exchange information, what
works best for them? Are theysomeone who is a driver and is
going to run what ourconversation is, or someone
who's willing to sit back andlisten and wants to be friendly
and, and know about my case inmy life before there's any type
of a decision made. And I thinkin EMS, a lot of it's the same,
(08:03):
we walk into these situationswhere we don't know what we're
getting, what the person islike, what their daily, what
their daily activities areanything else like that. And it
really is important in thosefirst minute or two. I hate to
say that, you know, we're biasedin one way or another. But we
really do have to make somereally quick decisions on how
(08:24):
we're going to approach asituation or this person. And
when that doesn't work, beingable to back yourself out of
that conversation, and figureout in that couple of next
couple of seconds. Alright, letme approach this from a
different perspective. And Ithink it's that ebb and flow
that we have with our patientsand our customers on a daily
basis that allow theconversation to happen, but also
(08:47):
allow us to actively listen, andnot necessarily respond to
everything that they say. Butlet them know that we're taking
interest in what they say. Andthen how can we best talk
Jason Goldberg (08:57):
are nice. All right, so you teach a lot right
you in in your world you you'reteaching new and current EMTs
your preceptor to paramedics whoare going through training what
what are your leadershipphilosophies in general? And And
(09:20):
honestly, when you when you showup on every scene, you have to
take charge from a medicalperspective and direct well
might be two or a dozendifferent people. So how do you
think about
Dani Garavito (09:35):
I think making each making each you know call
or anything that we do making ita teaching opportunity for
others is important. I thinkthat's what keeps people engaged
and wanting to come back formore. So whether I'm teaching on
a call, or whether I'm teachinga classroom in EMS, and I'm also
(09:57):
a district sales trainer, mysales rep is is making people
feel that they are engaged andthat what they have to say is
important and what they're theirthoughts and their opinions. And
it may not be the right choicethat we're making on a call in
that moment. But at some pointtalking about it and saying, you
know, what could we have donebetter? Or what did you like
(10:19):
about what happened on the call?
Or what didn't go so well? Andhow are we able to improve? In
EMS there are, you know,algorithms, and there's
protocols, and there's ways thatwe can handle certain
situations, a trouble breathing,a chest pain through a patient,
whatever the call is, but whatit really does is it provides an
opportunity, everyone has thestructure, but how we best
(10:40):
implement skills, orinteractions or moving the
patient, you know, from point Ato point B. But the joke in our
house here is that a lot oftimes we may be viewed as you
know, FedEx workers, our job isto move a package from point A
to point B reality is, is thatour our package was taught and
(11:02):
had feelings. And even people ina classroom setting or learning
environment, each one of thosestudents have feelings and want
to feel like they're beingheard. And if they're able to
engage in the conversation, and,and partake in the hands on
stuff, it really does make themfeel that they are completely
involved, rather than a studentthat sits back with their arms
(11:25):
crossed, like I don't want to dothat. So I'm going to reach out
to them. And I think my calls,we need to reach out to people
and get them more engaged, thatthey feel like they really are
Jason Goldberg (11:36):
truly ready. So you talk about calls in a very
calm way. Right? You've beendoing this for a long time. And
I think most people who arelistening don't have the full
framing of what these situationsmight look like. But you have,
you know, somebody, whether it'sthe patient themselves, or a
(11:56):
family member bystander makesthe decision to call 911. And in
that moment, that patient isprobably experiencing a
significant amount of fear.
Right, what am I experiencingright now? And what am I about
to go through? When thatambulance arrives and in the
journey to the hospital, andthen at the hospital, what's
(12:18):
going to happen to me, and theymake the decision that they need
help. And then there's a gap,there's that amount of time from
when they call 911. Until whenthe the ambulance arrives, and
the paramedic arrives. And thatfear sometimes amplifies during
that downtime. At least that'sthat's what I've heard from some
(12:40):
patients. And then you arriveand you have sometimes nervous,
you have nervous patients, youhave nervous family members
bystanders. So your pager goesoff, you get to the scene.
What's going through your mindin route, right, what's going
(13:03):
through your mind when you getto a scene? Because it's it's
their crisis? So much. Why arethey not moving when I have my
siren on, right?
Dani Garavito (13:19):
But I think walking up to the scene, you
know, we always do that scenesurvey, and just get a general
impression. But walking in thedoor and that patient sitting
there looking at you andeverything else. I actually do
use the word Hi, what's up? Whatis going on? How can I help?
Because I do think that putspeople at ease as opposed to
coming in like, Oh, you'rehaving chest pain, you know, it
(13:42):
just, I'm here to help you. ButI think you have to have that
relaxed attitude, or thatrelaxed persona. Because if you
get excited more than then it'sgonna get even more exciting.
And you hit the nail on the headbefore we said, you know, a lot
of times, it's the familymembers, or the loved ones or
(14:02):
the friend, whomever there thatreally are the ones that are
excited. And those usually arelike a second version, right?
The person you want to calm downmore. So the assessment portion
portion, though, is usuallyalways the same. You know, get
through your patient assessment,and that really does allow
(14:23):
yourself I think, to stay calm,because you're working through
in your head, you know, whatsteps do I need to pick? Now
granted, there's flack for that.
But I think even with the flexwe still follow you know what it
is that we're supposed to do. Ialways tell my students don't go
down a rabbit hole. As much asyou want your patient to talk to
(14:44):
you and give you information.
It's important for you to keepyour stuff in line in your head.
You need to drive theconversation. But again, it's
figuring out what information isimportant to the patient when
they want to tell you certainthings right up front Listen to
them, but then go back and dothe stuff that you're supposed
to do in order.
Jason Goldberg (15:05):
So you touched on something a moment ago, you
said, survey the scene. And it'ssomething that's just so natural
to many of us in this field. Butthat survey, you know, I,
whenever I teach a CPR class, Ijokingly, you know, say, Stop,
survey the scene, use all ofyour senses, sight, hearing,
(15:29):
smell, sometimes touch,understand, just just don't
taste and figure out what'sgoing on. And, and unlike TV,
nobody's ever, ever running intoa scene, except the new guy
sometimes, and then we have tograb them by the back of the
shirt. But that, to metranslates so much to the
(15:52):
corporate world, the businessworld, I don't care what field
you're in. Because wheneverthere's a crisis, oftentimes
people will overreact, ratherthan taking a moment. And
observing what's going on to tryto assess what's going on.
Because how many scenes have youcome across where you know
(16:12):
what's going on immediately bebased on your survey?
Dani Garavito (16:17):
Absolutely. And I think even in your initial
assessment, you know, what wecall in our world of EMS initial
assessment, but that generalimpression of what you like,
see, number one, like sick ornot sick, right, I'm smiling, my
colors, good. I'm laughing atmy, I always say, my students or
even people I'm writing with, ifthey catch on and like sarcasm,
(16:41):
things are pretty good in thatmoment, right? It's the people
who have what we call lifetimeeyes open. But there's no one
home, they're not responding toyou in the way that they should
be responding to you. I alsothink, too, that you know, when
there is a crisis, we don't needto recreate the wheel. A lot of
us have done this a long timeand have the experience behind
(17:03):
us that the wheel is there. Thequestion is, how are you going
to move that wheel forward? Orin the line of EMS? How are you
going to move the bus rollingthe ambulance forward, and get
them to the hospital. Butremembering that, you know,
again, there's a procedure,there's a way to do it. And you
have to walk the patient throughthat journey. That's the word
(17:26):
you've used, you have to walkthem through their journey, help
them through this journey, A, B,C, and step even after that
Jason Goldberg (17:33):
so many times on these calls, because when we
work in this field, we work inyou cover a very large
territory. That is what 20 mightbe 20 miles from north to south,
right? So it is broken into
Dani Garavito (17:54):
the 45 zone. Yes, but you know, it's an iPhone,
it's approximately eight counts,and it's about 230 square miles.
Jason Goldberg (18:00):
So there are obviously times where you get on
scene and you work withambulance crews, EMTs
firefighters, police officerswho you've never seen before,
you've never met before.
Everyone's been trained,hopefully to the same same
standards. But very often you'reputting people together who
(18:22):
don't know one another. How doyou manage that? How do you pull
teams together that have neverworked together before? And lead
those teams? And at the sametime? I know this is a compound
question, but at the same time,create calm.
Dani Garavito (18:43):
Yeah, so if you asked me to define my job, in
one phrase, I am ringmaster of athree ring circus. In essence,
right EMS fire and the police aswell. But making people realize
that our goal at the end is thesame number one, number two is
figuring out or even sometimesknowing what a person's
(19:04):
strengths are or what theirweaknesses are, there will be
times in speaking to a patientthat I realized that I'm not the
person who want to talk to you.
And it can be because maybe I ama female. They don't want to
interact with it with a femalein that moment, as crazy as it
sounds, but maybe they prefer totalk to a man and realizing that
you know what, the patient hasalready found a connection that
(19:28):
has an affinity towards youknow, the male officer who might
be standing there and gettinghim involved into it. Sometimes
there's even coaching thoughthat officer, but the reality
is, is that it's important forus to realize that in that
moment, we all have the same, weall have the same goal.
Sometimes it's also givingpeople who tend to get in my way
(19:49):
or get in the way of getting thepatient from set B or C setting
them out on a job. You know, Ineed you to go back to this
place or go Get this out of theenvelope because I do need them
out of that situation. Therehave been times that the EMTs
have walked in the door behindme. And I know the patient's not
doing well. But knowing thatthere's so many people showing
(20:11):
up to the house or that scene,and the EMTs come in the door,
and they're all happy to bethere, like, hey, you know,
paramedics, I'm here and I'mlike, like, just short second,
because that patient doesrequire 111 person. Moment. So
it's important to know what eachscenario or scene requires, or
how can we best get into
Jason Goldberg (20:34):
them. So what's your way? Right? You're You're
I've been testing a lot that youkeep people calm and you educate
at the same time. How do you howdo you keep? How do you create
calm, it's the storm.
Dani Garavito (20:53):
I think calm for me is letting everybody have
their space to do what their jobrequires. So as an EMT, they're
really should be coming in thedoor. They've been trained to do
a patient assessment, a good setof vitals, ask the basic
questions and everything else.
And I did this just the otherday two, where I noticed that we
were in the scene, and I walkedin, and the NPS were doing what
(21:18):
they needed to do right there.
They're doing the patientsegment, and I literally just
stood sit there. And I saidnothing. And it was one of those
things where, at the end, aswe're moving the patient out the
door, I said to them, You knowwhat, you guys, you're doing a
great job. And they're like,What are you stuff you need to
(21:40):
do to know you're doing a greatjob, the comments need not
coming in as like a gang buster.
And taking over the scene, thecomments me really letting
people have their space to dowhat needs to be done. And I
think that gives them theconfidence. And that also gives
the confidence to the patient,that these are competent people
that are here to help me thephrase of you know, as long as
(22:02):
you're nice to people, they'llforget what you did wrong. But
the reality is to in thatmoment, if people seem to know
what they're doing, there is acombat that come over in that
moment. And even with a lovedone, letting them get involved,
can you please get me a with themedication, you know, he's going
(22:23):
to need some clothes, when hegets to the hospital, can you
please pack a bag, we're goingto keep those things, things
that we will need to make themfeel that they truly are
involved in the situation.
Jason Goldberg (22:34):
I think what I found is tone in interacting
with everyone, whether it's mycolleagues are whether it's
patient or fat or their familiesgoes a long way. So that if I'm,
in some cases, you know, justserious and decisive, I'm
(22:56):
getting a certain reaction. Insome cases, I can introduce some
levity to the situation, and Iget a different reaction. But if
I show the slightest bit ofuncertainty or panic, that's
going to be infused into thesituation, that's terrible. So I
have to be in control of myemotions, and understand my pet
(23:22):
by the emotions of everyone elsearound to try to drive what I'm
feeling into them. And I thinkthat that's, that's something
important. I've seen the verybest providers do that.
Dani Garavito (23:39):
Right. And you'll see that in the morning at my
house is 730. When that bus iscoming down to three, right? I
lose my kid, you know, I can seethe panic on their face in that
moment. Their shoes aren't on,they don't know where anything
is, and the reality of theirshoes gonna be sitting there
right in front of them. But youdon't see them right? Because
panic taking over. And I thinkwhen panic kicks over in a
(24:00):
situation, we're blind, we don'tsee any right we see red that
moment. And we've got to getourselves out of that red zone
that we put ourselves into andwork into more of a yellow zone
where at least we're a bit morecalm or even a green zone like
Hey, I am good to go. Let's I'mwalking out the door mom and I'm
(24:20):
getting to the bus. And I thinkit's important for us to
remember we have to getourselves back into that green
zone. You know all all the time.
Voiceover (24:29):
A cell advisors, expert consultants are all
veteran operators who bring realsolutions to your business
challenges. Contact us at infoat a cell dash advisors.com To
reach our experts today.
Jason Goldberg (24:50):
All right, welcome back to the leaders
perspective. We are we're joinedtoday by Danny gara Vito and So
many leaders outside of outsideof your world deal with a
crisis, every once in a while,it's certainly not, you're
stepping into somebody else'scrisis every day, right?
(25:12):
They're, they're dealing withone every once in a while, like,
hey, a little pandemic, and whatdo I do about, you know, people
in the office or my system hascrashed, or a particular product
is not performing, as well as weexpected? things, things like
that. Any advice for businessleaders, from somebody who's
(25:37):
expert in dealing with crisis?
Dani Garavito (25:41):
I think you need to trust your employees. I think
everybody wants to do a goodjob. Some of us want to do a
great job. But you definitelyneed to figure out what
motivates people. And I knowfrom especially during the last
like, two plus years that we'vebeen in a pandemic and my sales
job, we went dark in March. Andso I was home. And for us, that
(26:04):
was completely new, never workedfrom, I mean, yes, my office is
my house, but I've never had tostay home. Throw kids into it a
whole different next to but thereality is, is finding new ways
to be able to get the customershelp customers and everything
else and reach out to them. Ithink it's important to trust
your employees and and maybe nomore hope, probably, that
(26:28):
they're doing the right thing.
But you have, I think, if yougive everybody a sense of
independence, and let themfigure out, you know, how can I
grow? How can I get better? Howcan I make the best out of it
situation? It people will shinethrough, people will find what
works and what doesn't work. Andthere has to be the flexibility
to that as well. I think it'sunderstanding that no one
(26:50):
operates in the same boat. Andwhen things do change, and a
crisis kicks in, you'll noticesome people are all in, I'm
here, what do you need from me.
And then there will be somepeople who retreat a little bit,
want to survey the scene, seewhat's going on, and then we'll
figure out how they can bestplace itself back into this new
(27:12):
world that we've had, you know,from
Jason Goldberg (27:14):
home. Okay, so let's, let's talk about hot
topic right now, which is acrisis in EMS itself. At the
moment. And since the pandemic,we found that a lot of people
have been burnt out and havestepped out of the world of
(27:37):
emergency medical services. Sothere's a hiring and staffing
crisis right now in this fieldthere is in every field, but I
think it's actually worse in EMSthan many others. It's having an
effect on retention andprofessionalism. So what more
can you share about what's goingon and how your organization's
(27:58):
are combating that?
Dani Garavito (28:01):
I think the biggest thing that we're up
against, well, it used to bepaid, we have seen a change with
that, in the last, you know,year or two, where there have
been raises that have been giventhe minimum wage, you know,
being raised helped a lot inthose situations. I also think,
too, that EMS is seen as astepping stone for many, I want
(28:24):
to become a firefighter orpolice officer to get into
nursing or other areas of healthcare. And being an EMT, or in
EMS is usually that firstopportunity to get patient care
or direct patient contact hours,we're going to use it for that
reason. So we have people formany people for a very short
period of time, because it isn'tstepping stone and then moving
(28:46):
on to something else. The otherissue we have, though, is I
don't want to say a lack ofeducation. But in EMS, there is
a requirement there is a need tohave critical thinking skills,
you know, critical decisionmaking skill. And a lot of
people don't come to the tablewith that skill set. I think you
(29:09):
learn it over a period of timeyou're learning from being
placed in certain situations,interacting with different
people, but being able toprioritize what is important,
and what is not so important, isa big part of EBMs because
that's what we do. We triage outin situations and stuff like
that. It also goes beyond thefact that you know the age
(29:33):
spectrum in EMS. We have a lotof depth dinosaurs that fit the
criteria of a dinosaur, believeit or not. But the reality is we
also have very young folks inEMS now that really aren't sure
what they want to do and they'relike their testing. It's out.
They went to class for three orfour months. They got their EMP.
(29:53):
Now they are an a&p to get thejob on the AMA. And that's
really where they figured out isthis for me or not? We not only
need to recruit people in EMS,and give opportunities to
younger folks before they evenget the EMT class, but I'm
talking middle school and highschool, to give them a skill set
of being able to make adifference and make a critical
(30:17):
decision in a second that theymay be able to get, whether it's
through groups in school, mocktrial competition could be a big
one, you know, drama, thingswhere it forces them to
constantly be thinking and notjust sit back and wait type of
thing,
Jason Goldberg (30:36):
I actually think it's been getting worse, in that
the ability to make criticaldecisions and interact, we have
to form a relationship withanyone that we see on scene. And
that skill is being is is beinglost in this. In this world,
where students had been inschool virtually for for a few
(30:59):
years, and, you know, people arespending more time at home on
their phones interactingelectronically, there is no
interacting over the phone. InEMS, it just doesn't exist, you
have to form this report person.
So that's a skill definitelywith people coming out of school
that that's being lost.
Dani Garavito (31:21):
Absolutely, I mean, I had an EMP the other
day, we had a conversation, shewas gonna follow up with me
about something. And she's like,Oh, I'll be sure to catch you.
Later, I looked at her and Ilaughed, and I could just call
me that even that conversationwill go so much harder. I
thought to myself and her justshooting out in practice, he
would be like, Yes, I'll get theinformation. But the reality is,
(31:44):
is I want to hear the inflectionof voice, I want to know, you
know, what a feeling is aboutthe information. And I think
that carries a lot when there'sjust a conversation that you
don't get, but so many, so manypeople are relying on devices
and everything else, and even oncalls, right? Staring at the
iPad, if you're putting patientinformation. And you know, I
tell him, I take pictures ofstuff. You know, like the
(32:05):
patient's drivers like stufflike that with the iPad. And
there's no in later, there hasto be the communication skills
there. I
Jason Goldberg (32:13):
picked up the phone and called somebody the
other day for for a businessmeeting. And I just needed to
follow up and personally answerthe phone. They said, wow, they
said phone call this old school.
Logic very. So, you know, howdoes it again, in this world,
(32:35):
there is also a mix of paid andvolunteer. So how does
volunteerism come into play? Inall of this? And is it making
things better or worse?
Dani Garavito (32:51):
Oh, I think we'd make it better no matter what,
I'll take extra hands on a callany day of the week. But the
reality is, is that there's alot of turnover with the
volunteers, you know, someonecomes into an organization they
want to ride they want to docalls, maybe it's not a busy
service, or they're not gettingany calls and they want to go
(33:13):
somewhere else. The other issuewe have with the volunteers
though, is that they need topeople need to work people go
out to their jobs everyday to orvolunteering needs time away
from from your family duringyour downtime at home and
everything else because you'rerunning out the door because of
a call and the pager going off.
But I think we also don't haveinto a lot of groups, you know,
(33:33):
especially in your area groupsthat are there that are looking
to not only volunteer, but maybeget into just EMS in general as
a paid person. And I know I'vealways said that there's a
there's a population in NorthernWestchester that looking for
work that doesn't necessarilywant to go out every day and do
hard labor out in out in theroad or in people's yards and
(33:56):
stuff like that, and offeringeducational opportunities to
others who are able to work butare just looking to do something
else and give them a differentskill set. And I think also too,
is that we have to realize thatthe demographics are changing in
some areas, people are speakingdifferent languages. A lot of
our volunteers, you know, speakone language don't speak many
(34:20):
rarely do I get volunteer tospeak multiple languages. But I
think it's important for us tosort of grow our group so that
when we do have a patient from adifferent background or speaking
a different language, that we'rebest able to help them if we can
better.
Jason Goldberg (34:40):
But But all of this all of what you've said
raises a serious issue which iswe need people who want to
serve. You need people who havecritical thinking skills, who
are intelligent, who have deepmath skills. In many cases, you
(35:01):
have to do math to actually domath in this in this field, who
have good interpersonal skills.
It's also a physical job, maybebe bilingual, this, these are a
lot of things. And then when youlook at, forget, volunteer, when
you look at what EMTs andparamedics are paid in this
(35:22):
country, that in and of itselfis a crisis, and everyone should
know that the people that areshowing up at your door to help
you when you call 911 are notdoing this for the money,
because they're not makingnearly enough money, and they're
(35:43):
not paid enough. And sorecruiting into this world is
incredibly difficult. Andrecruiting the people with the
best skills, certainly even moredifficult. So as you said, it's
a stepping stone. So when you doget those very best people and
I've seen them come through,they're on their way to, you
know, to corporate world or ontheir way to PA school, or
(36:07):
medical school or somethingelse. And, and even for the high
school students, some of whomare exceptional, are doing this
to help them get into college.
So it's very difficult. And Ithink our country has to do a
better job in thinking aboutcompensation in these critical
(36:31):
in this critical area.
Dani Garavito (36:35):
Yeah, they definitely need to be
incentivized to become into theworld of EMS, you know, and I
think in a lot of jobs, not justEMS, and a lot of jobs, you
know, and entry jobs and stufflike that, probably not paying
people what they should bemaking. But I think the reality
is, too is that, you know, it'salso important to have a loyalty
(36:57):
to the company that you'reworking for, to put in time to
be compensated well over theyears, have an opportunity to
get, you know, assessments doneor a review, and get a raise as
well. And I think employers oweit to their employees to really,
truly give feedback and let itbe a 360, the feedback managers
(37:22):
and employees and also offeredthe opportunity, though, to
whether they get, you know,promoted to a supervisor spot or
a senior medic or whether they,you know, just get off and what
they're making per hour.
Jason Goldberg (37:38):
So, last question for you. Can you tell
us about one to two leaders whoyou've learned from along the
way? either good or bad, right?
We see leaders sometimes who arenot great leaders, and we
learned what what not to do buteither good or bad? What did
what did they teach? Who werethey? Who were they? And what
did they teach you?
Dani Garavito (37:59):
So I did have a guy when I was at the University
of Maryland, who he he ran thecentral Judicial Board, which I
was on, it was a board thatsuspended expelled students from
the university for variousreasons. But John Zacher, was
one of those people who did agreat job and getting us
together as a group, becausethat's what we function that
(38:21):
usually was a panel of three orfour of us. And we all listen to
the same story of what hadhappened with that student or
what went on in that incident.
And the thing though, is, isthat we all have our own
interpretation of things when wedon't get to see it firsthand.
And John was very good atgetting us together as a group,
and taking all of the differentperspectives of the three or
(38:42):
four of us that were sitting onthe panel, and giving us an
opportunity to talk about whatwe saw, which then provided a
different opportunity to thepeople that you were sitting
with. And a lot of times ifpeople don't hear it from
somebody else, yes, you can hearit from the student, but then to
how I process the informationthat I got from a student and
(39:03):
what my feedback was, thatreally made a difference. You
sometimes just need to hear it asecond time. And what I was able
to infer from a conversation,then allow them to realize, Oh,
I didn't pick up on that.
Because so many times when welisten to other speak, we're
constantly thinking of how can Irespond? But when you look at it
(39:25):
from different perspectives,it's not how can I respond to
it? It's Sorry, what else do Ineed to know? So I would say
that guy, John Bakker at thatcentral leadership board was one
of them who really led us tomake a decision that weren't
just cut and dry. But looking atall different perspectives of
what the problem was or what theissue was. Because in the end,
(39:46):
it's a person you're making adecision about, and that's what
could be at the forefrontyounger person. John, thank you.
Number two would be my dash. Imean, It seems like the most
obvious answer to say andeverything else. But I think the
reason is just, my dad was oneof those who just could look at
(40:07):
facts, or listen to people, orcome up with a decision that was
maybe not quite what everyoneelse expected in the moment. And
I think a lot of that has to dowith experience, I don't think
we value the experience thatpeople have some time, or what
they actually planned for thetable. I think when people
(40:28):
approach a table with a group ofpeople, they know what they
have. And they may have atendency to just think about
what they're able to bring. Butyou need to understand that
sometimes it's what other peoplebring to the table. Maybe
they've done that for 2025years, I look at myself as a
paramedic, you know, and I jokeon scene, and I've only done
this for 25 years. But it's alsoknowing that sometimes we need
(40:52):
to know how to actually getsomebody you know, we need to
get this cement block off ofthis person's leg. And there's
maybe somebody in the crowd whoknows how to do that. So one
thing my dad is very good at isappreciating others experience
to come up with a decision thatwould be best for everyone, and
then moving forward with it.
Jason Goldberg (41:12):
So I like him.
Fantastic. I love that. Well,Danny, thank you so much for for
spending the time with us today.
We we've learned a lot and a youwere beyond humble. You are a
true hero in our community. Andand thank you for your service
and for all that you do.
Dani Garavito (41:33):
Thank you. Thank you for having me. This is truly
a pleasure. Thanks
Jason Goldberg (41:35):
again. Thank you again to Danny Dwyer, Dara Vito
for joining us today she isabsolutely being humble and an
extreme professional. I havepersonally witnessed Danny
handle patients in crisis andextraordinary traumas, and
(41:56):
cardiac arrests with with withthe utmost of, of calm and
professionalism, while makingpatients feel better and feel
connected with with the team. Soshe's a phenomenal provider. And
we were very lucky to hear fromher today. As always, at the end
(42:17):
of the leaders perspective,podcasts, I like to recap a few
things that we learned from fromour guests. And so I captured
four things that that I learnedfrom from Danny today. First is
assess the scene, assess thesituation, don't rush in, take a
(42:39):
moment, think about what's goingon. And then you can empower
your people and appreciate yourpeople to take charge. But take
that time, assess what's goingon. And don't rush right in,
you'll have a better outcomewhen you do that. connected to
(43:00):
that. You don't always need tointervene when others have a
situation under control, monitorand assess their performance.
But if they're doing a good job,let them get it done. The third,
listen to what people aresaying, listen carefully. But
don't listen to react. Listenfor facts, and listen for
(43:24):
context. Perhaps there's asolution to a problem that isn't
cut and dry. And that can beapplied to the situation. So
again, listen, not to react. Butlisten for facts and context so
that you can come out with thebest solution. And lastly, make
(43:47):
every interaction a teachingopportunity. And I love this
one. And it's it's often it'ssomething that I personally talk
about a lot with people when Italk about leadership, it keeps
people engaged. So let peoplemanage, then talk afterwards,
regroup and talk about whetherthings could have been done
differently or more efficiently.
In the medical world, there is aphrase called see one do one
(44:10):
teach one. And I love that inbusiness as well. You're
basically seeing a procedure,you're doing it once yourself,
and then you're teachingsomebody else and it is the
notion that everyone is a mentorand a mentee at every stage in
their career. So this was thiswas a wonderful episode of the
(44:33):
leaders perspective. Again,thank you very much to Danny
Gary Vito for joining us. Thankyou for listening to the leaders
perspective podcast. As always,have a great day and be your
best self.
Voiceover (44:52):
Thanks for listening to the leaders perspective
podcast, brought to you by acell advisors visit SL dash
advisors.com For moreinformation about our growth
turnaround, optimization risk inHR Advisory Services LLC, and is
(45:15):
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