April 16, 2025 • 18 mins
Reverse delegation might be silently sabotaging your leadership effectiveness and your team's growth. In this eye-opening conversation, Scott and Tammy tackle the widespread phenomenon where well-intentioned leaders find themselves taking back work they've delegated to their team members.
The hosts unpack how many of us unwittingly create this dynamic through a fundamental misunderstanding of servant leadership. "No, you're not being a servant leader. You're being a bonehead," Scott remarks in his characteristically direct style, highlighting how taking on your employees' responsibilities actually disables rather than enables them. This conversation exposes the warning signs that you're carrying too many of your team's "monkeys" – from working longer hours than your staff to constantly justifying why you should handle tasks yourself.
Drawing on the classic Harvard Business Review concept of "management monkeys," Tammy provides practical strategies for breaking this cycle without sacrificing deadlines or team morale. The discussion explores the delicate balance between supporting your team and creating unhealthy dependencies, offering insights into when stepping in is appropriate and when it undermines growth. You'll learn powerful questioning techniques to help your team think more deeply rather than simply providing solutions.
Are you creating a firefighting environment by rescuing your team at the last minute? Do you find yourself playing the "Uno reverse card" game with tasks that should remain with your employees? This frank, practical conversation will transform how you think about delegation and employee development. Listen now to become the leader who truly enables others rather than unconsciously disabling them.
Questions or topic suggestions? Let us know! podcast@becomemoregp.com
Connect with us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/becomemoregp
Connect with Us:
Tammy K Rogers: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tammerarogers
Scott Burgmeyer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/burgy
Producer Karman Hotchkiss: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karman-hotchkiss/
Other Resources: http://www.becomemoregp.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Karman (00:00):
Good morning Scott and Tammy.
Good morning Carmen.
How are you?
I am good, although it is darkhere.
Tammy (00:09):
At this time of day.
It is dark here.
We should still be in bed.
Scott (00:15):
Good morning.
It's always dark where I am.
Tammy (00:19):
That's true.
It's the thing that just, it'sthe little dark cloud that
follows you everywhere you go.
Scott Bergmeier, Someone toldme yesterday that they enjoyed
your dark humor.
Just wanted you to know.
Scott (00:30):
Oh, that's good.
One in a million.
Why?
The squirrel finds a nut?
Karman (00:38):
I mean, I'm going to add that to my list of Scott
Bergmeier t-shirt ideas.
It's always dark where I am.
Tammy (00:47):
It's always dark wherever Scott Bergmeier is.
Maybe there's, maybe there'llbe a whole thing that people
start saying I want to be darklike Scott Bergmeier Instead of
be like Mike, it'll be likeScott.
Oh yeah, there you go.
Maybe they'll get braceletsinstead of it's.
You know what would Jesus do?
(01:08):
It's.
What would Scott do?
Yeah.
Scott (01:12):
Well, I'll be blasphemous .
It's probably like smarter todo what I would do.
Tammy (01:16):
No, you're totally blasphemous and I'm going to
like you know, right now I haveto shoot that puppy down.
Karman (01:24):
Depends on what you want your outcome to be.
Tammy (01:28):
Heaven or hell.
That is true, Carmen.
That is a very good, goodobservation.
Scott (01:33):
That'll be the picture on the T-shirt.
Tammy (01:36):
Oh yeah, scott has a picture of himself dressed up
for Halloween and he is.
Is that Freddy Krueger?
Freddy Krueger?
Hey, that's pretty good forTammy, who doesn't even watch
these things, but I'm prettysure that's Freddy Krueger, yeah
.
Karman (01:54):
Well, I have been having the pleasure of pre-reading
your book.
Think Do you have a book?
Tammy (02:04):
We do have a book, Scott.
Karman (02:08):
It might be why I'm getting up at this time of the
morning, but it's, and there aresome wonderful things in this
book, and I wanted to talk thismorning about one of the lessons
that I took away and one of themany times when I thought I
wish that I had known Tammy andScott when I was in my corporate
(02:30):
job, because I'm learning somuch and, you know, like it's
almost enough to make me want togo back to my corporate job, so
there's some things I could doover again.
Tammy (02:41):
No, no, you cannot go back to your corporate job.
If that's true, we're going tostop writing.
You have to stay, Carmen.
You must stay.
Scott (02:51):
Well, hold on now.
That doesn't mean, carmenwouldn't work for us.
She just might double dip andshe could hire us at her
corporate job.
I see no downside here.
Tammy (03:03):
Okay, I just okay.
Karman (03:06):
Sleep is overrated.
Yeah, who needs that?
You can sleep when you're dead.
Stop In my Freddy Kruegeroutfit, yeah, yeah.
So here's the thing that youtalk about in the book that I
think I was guilty of a lot, andso today I'd like you to talk
(03:31):
about reverse delegation, whatthat is, and is it always bad?
Tammy (03:41):
Let's do a Scott.
Yes, let's do a Scott.
Scott (03:46):
Yes, well it you know, it depends on your perspective.
If you're the delegator, it isnot always bad the employee the
staff.
Tammy (03:58):
I mean and okay.
So let's kind of talk aboutreverse delegation.
What we're talking about inthis case is we've given an
employee a task, we've giventhem something for them to
complete, or maybe it's justeven part of their normal
everyday job and somehow oranother Maybe it's just even
part of their normal everydayjob and somehow or another they
end up giving it back to theirboss.
(04:20):
Now, sometimes they do this ina way that I mean I think
oftentimes they don't evenrecognize that they're doing it.
So it's kind of like hey, scott, I don't know how to do this.
And then Scott, just becausehe's being a nice guy or because
it's a day where he has a lotof stuff going on and doesn't
have, you know, time to explainit, scott just picks it up and
(04:43):
says don't worry about it, I'lltake care of it.
Or he'll tell the personexactly what to do with all the
detail you know, and maybe thatperson will go off and do it.
But the fact of the matter isis Scott is still keeping the
information in his you know, heknows how to do it, he knows
what he's doing it, and he goesin and like make sure that it
(05:05):
gets done right.
And there's a great article it'sfrom a very long time ago from
Harvard Business Review and ittalks about are you taking back
the monkeys that your employeesare giving you?
And that's really what it is.
These employees are saying, hey, I have this work to do.
Ie a monkey.
I don't want to do it, I don'tknow how to do it.
I ask so many questions aboutit that you know whatever it is.
(05:27):
And I'm saying take my monkey.
And it happens, carmen, all thetime.
And it doesn't surprise me thatit happens to you or happened
to you, because you are aguardian and as a guardian in
your PI profile, you want tohelp and serve others.
Guardians, let me take care ofyou.
(05:51):
And it is a really naturalresponse, especially in today's
world, that we have taught ourleaders a good leader is one who
supports, a good leader is onewho cares about.
And so we pick up these monkeyswhen employees and again,
they're not being jerks, theyjust want to be right or want to
be perfect or really are alittle confused and their bosses
pick up the monkeys and takecare of it instead of helping
(06:12):
the person think through it andlearn through the thinking how
to do it on their own.
So that's what reversedelegation is.
Scott (06:20):
I think there's a couple of things we have to also
reinforce here.
You said, oh, I didn't havetime to explain it.
No, I chose to not explain it.
I didn't take the time toexplain it.
Right?
As a leader, I deprioritizethat in that moment.
It happens to all of us.
I've done it right, We've alldone it, and I've probably done
(06:43):
it recently.
Okay, I think the other thingis this thing about oh, I'm
supposed to support.
I think of some of the modelsthat are bastardized, Servant
leader is the one that I findthe most.
That is very bastardized fromthe core of its existence, right
?
People think, oh well, I'msupposed to serve you.
(07:03):
No, that is not what servantleadership is, and you can go
Google that or AI or whatever itis about supporting.
Tammy (07:13):
Read the book, read the whole book, don't just read the
headline right.
Don't don't be in that spotwhere you're just skimming over
and people jump to this.
Scott (07:21):
Yeah, people jump to this .
Well, I'm being a servantleader.
No, you're being a bonehead.
Karman (07:27):
A pushover.
Scott (07:30):
And again, I think that this is there a time and a place
to take it over for them.
Sure, there, there, likely is,you know, if it's an emergency,
if it's something, it's okay.
I totally get it.
I mean, I'm thinking we wereworking on a project with one of
our team and they're not superskilled at Excel.
Now I could have sent them offto go do it and research it and
(07:54):
they would have spent hours andhours and hours on it.
When it's something, it doesn'tneed to be their core skill, it
doesn't right, it's not superimportant, I can do it quickly.
And so, yeah, in that situation, I am going to make the
decision to, like, support themon this.
Now, if it was their core skill, or it was something where,
(08:14):
like, hey, I do need you to beon your own for this.
Now, if it was their core skill, or it was something where,
like, hey, I do need you to beon your own for this, yeah,
we're going to talk through it,we're going to work through it.
They're going to do it like.
We're going to approach it very, very differently.
Tammy (08:27):
Well, an example for me of that and I'm, you know, I'm
going to just take it into aneveryday life those of you who
have all had children, like thetwo of you, have had children.
You know there are children yes, both of you do Lovely children
and you know there are timeswhen, yeah, you took care of
your kids, you took when theywere little, you changed their
(08:48):
diapers, you fed them, youclothed them.
There came a time, however,though, that you thought I'm not
changing diapers anymore, Okay,and potty training became the
thing that you guys had to do,and, like you know, no, I am not
going to every day decide whatthey're going to wear and put
their clothes on them.
They're going to decide forthemselves.
I am not going to feed themevery day.
(09:09):
I am not going to.
There comes a time where everyemployee needs to be more
independent, just like everychild goes through all of these
stages of independence.
We're not talking about doingstuff for an employee when they
do need the support.
We're talking about what is theemployee's responsibility that
(09:29):
you, as a leader, end up takingback on your shoulders when they
need to be independent in thatparticular area, Employees have
a way of reverse delegating andmany leaders have a way of
picking it up, and a big part ofit is the misunderstanding of
servant leadership.
(09:50):
The hi, I'm just a nice humanbeing and I am trying to be
supportive and kind, whichthat's the Karmans of the world.
One of the ways that you can seeif you're in that spot are you
working more than your staff?
If you are working longer andharder than your staff, if in
your brain you go oh, I can'tgive that to so-and-so because
(10:13):
you know they have kids, or Iknow this is going to be a tough
task, it's going to like takeover the weekend.
I can't give that to Billy Bob,because and so every time
you're saying I'll do it so thatyou won't give it to them, or
anytime somebody pushes back andsays I'm overwhelmed, I don't
have time, I don't know how todo this, and you put it on you
(10:34):
and you're working all the extrahours.
That's the sign that you aretaking their monkeys on.
Scott (10:40):
An element of are you justifying why someone shouldn't
do it?
Yes, and really looking at itand saying why me, why am I
doing this, and is it really mywork?
It's also an element of maybethey're not prepared to take it
today.
That is also okay.
(11:02):
Then what is your action planas a leader to prepare them?
Tammy (11:27):
And so, again, I think sometimes leaders look at, take
it away, keep this individualfrom thinking things through,
figuring things out and beingable to move forward and
independently contributing.
In this way, we, as leaders,should not be doing the thinking
for our staff.
We, if we have someone that isnot independent on this task yet
(11:52):
, should be asking questions tohelp them think it through more
deeply to come to goodconclusions, and that's the
piece where we are also doing adisservice to them.
So we've been talking about thedisservice to you, right?
Hey, you shouldn't take this on.
You're the leader.
You have other things that youneed to do, I get it.
(12:13):
And you're doing a disserviceto your staff member.
You're disabling them when youare not working with them to
think things through.
And that's what, when, scott,you started this, you're like I
didn't, you know, I chose not totake the time in this moment to
deepen the opportunity fortheir thinking and their
(12:35):
learning and their growth.
And that's, oh that's just theopposite of servant leadership
disabling people instead ofenabling people.
Scott (12:43):
And I think we have to just be real.
There are moments where itshits on fire Like we just need
to get it done, yep, like right,all of those things.
And so we're not saying you'rea bad person every moment of
every day, right or not anoptimal leader.
Or to me it is that are youcircling back to say what action
(13:06):
am I taking to turn the monkeyback over, either in that moment
or in a follow-up or in agrowth and development plan,
whether that's formally orinformally, that to me, is the
place where I think leaders trip.
I think in the moment they'relikely making many times they're
making the right decisionBecause of just the situation at
hand.
It's the, it's the secondaryplace.
(13:26):
So I always think about it asif I feel like the reverse
delegation is coming and I thinkof the Uno reverse card right,
the employees playing the Unoreverse card.
In that moment, your role is tosay why me?
And is that my job?
(13:46):
And if the answer is no, now Ihave to do a little bit of
assessment.
I have to do a little bit ofassessment, I have to do a
little bit of thinking.
Okay, I have to say, oh, dothey have the skill set to do it
.
Where are they on theleadership ladder?
Can we afford the time in thismoment to get this thing done?
They could take some time todevelop.
It's really not due till nextweek.
Hand the monkey back, hey, take, take some time.
(14:10):
Why don't you draft it?
We'll look at it on Thursday.
If it's like no, it's due todayand we're not even going to
talk about did they wait to thelast minute?
Let's just not even worry aboutthat part of the conversation.
It might be I need to take iton in this moment, and how am I
going to circle back?
Tammy (14:30):
Or what I've done many, many times is all right, I do
have to take it on in thismoment and they are going to sit
here and we're going to do ittogether.
Scott (14:40):
At least there's some learning going on in that space,
right, Because what happens isoh yeah, I'll take care of it,
and then they go off on theirmerry way.
No, let's, hey, let's.
You know what?
I can't do it right now.
One of my favorite tactics is Ican't do it right now, but I
have time at 4.30 this afternoon.
Let's work on it together then.
Tammy (14:59):
Scott, this is when your dark cloud evilness comes out.
Scott (15:05):
But you know there's a reality.
There's a reality that you know.
You have to look and say shouldthey get off the hook for this?
Tammy (15:13):
Yes, I agree with you.
And the other piece.
So, scott, what you just saidis 100% valid and, if I may add
to it for just a minute as aleader, if you never, it's like
all of these conversations arecoming to the last second Okay,
so that you now have to quoteunquote take the monkey, because
(15:37):
results are so important,output is so important and we
don't have any other options dueto time.
You have another issue and weshould talk about that in
another podcast, but that'sanother thing.
If they're coming to you andgiving you the monkey and it is
at the last moment, okay, thereis something else that's going
(15:57):
on there and you, as a leader,need to recognize that.
You've created a firefightingenvironment, and when you have
firefighting and then you praiseheroics, woo-hoo, we got it
done at the last minute.
You end up with an environmentthat that's what we do and
everybody likes being afirefighter, and you live in
this constant reactivity.
(16:18):
So that's another hint thatsomething else is going wrong
later, okay, and so we can talkabout that another time.
But I love the fact that youbrought it up.
And, yeah, you're right.
Reality is we're going to getthe work done.
Okay, and yeah, you're right.
Reality is we're going to getthe work done.
Okay, any good boss is going toensure we hit those deadlines,
we meet the metrics, we takecare of the customer.
We're not going to punish quote, unquote the employee and we're
(16:46):
not going to punish the enduser, the person who's going to
be receiving this work, by notmeeting those deadlines because
we didn't get it done on time.
We'll probably step in and getit done and circle back.
How are you going to comearound the cul-de-sac and come
right back to it and help themcontinue to learn and grow?
So this is not the norm.
Good morning Scott and Tammy.
Good morning Carmen.
How are you?
I am good, although it is darkhere.
Tammy (00:09):
At this time of day.
It is dark here.
We should still be in bed.
Scott (00:15):
Good morning.
It's always dark where I am.
Tammy (00:19):
That's true.
It's the thing that just, it'sthe little dark cloud that
follows you everywhere you go.
Scott Bergmeier, Someone toldme yesterday that they enjoyed
your dark humor.
Just wanted you to know.
Scott (00:30):
Oh, that's good.
One in a million.
Why?
The squirrel finds a nut?
Karman (00:38):
I mean, I'm going to add that to my list of Scott
Bergmeier t-shirt ideas.
It's always dark where I am.
Tammy (00:47):
It's always dark wherever Scott Bergmeier is.
Maybe there's, maybe there'llbe a whole thing that people
start saying I want to be darklike Scott Bergmeier Instead of
be like Mike, it'll be likeScott.
Oh yeah, there you go.
Maybe they'll get braceletsinstead of it's.
You know what would Jesus do?
(01:08):
It's.
What would Scott do?
Yeah.
Scott (01:12):
Well, I'll be blasphemous .
It's probably like smarter todo what I would do.
Tammy (01:16):
No, you're totally blasphemous and I'm going to
like you know, right now I haveto shoot that puppy down.
Karman (01:24):
Depends on what you want your outcome to be.
Tammy (01:28):
Heaven or hell.
That is true, Carmen.
That is a very good, goodobservation.
Scott (01:33):
That'll be the picture on the T-shirt.
Tammy (01:36):
Oh yeah, scott has a picture of himself dressed up
for Halloween and he is.
Is that Freddy Krueger?
Freddy Krueger?
Hey, that's pretty good forTammy, who doesn't even watch
these things, but I'm prettysure that's Freddy Krueger, yeah
.
Karman (01:54):
Well, I have been having the pleasure of pre-reading
your book.
Think Do you have a book?
Tammy (02:04):
We do have a book, Scott.
Karman (02:08):
It might be why I'm getting up at this time of the
morning, but it's, and there aresome wonderful things in this
book, and I wanted to talk thismorning about one of the lessons
that I took away and one of themany times when I thought I
wish that I had known Tammy andScott when I was in my corporate
(02:30):
job, because I'm learning somuch and, you know, like it's
almost enough to make me want togo back to my corporate job, so
there's some things I could doover again.
Tammy (02:41):
No, no, you cannot go back to your corporate job.
If that's true, we're going tostop writing.
You have to stay, Carmen.
You must stay.
Scott (02:51):
Well, hold on now.
That doesn't mean, carmenwouldn't work for us.
She just might double dip andshe could hire us at her
corporate job.
I see no downside here.
Tammy (03:03):
Okay, I just okay.
Karman (03:06):
Sleep is overrated.
Yeah, who needs that?
You can sleep when you're dead.
Stop In my Freddy Kruegeroutfit, yeah, yeah.
So here's the thing that youtalk about in the book that I
think I was guilty of a lot, andso today I'd like you to talk
(03:31):
about reverse delegation, whatthat is, and is it always bad?
Tammy (03:41):
Let's do a Scott.
Yes, let's do a Scott.
Scott (03:46):
Yes, well it you know, it depends on your perspective.
If you're the delegator, it isnot always bad the employee the
staff.
Tammy (03:58):
I mean and okay.
So let's kind of talk aboutreverse delegation.
What we're talking about inthis case is we've given an
employee a task, we've giventhem something for them to
complete, or maybe it's justeven part of their normal
everyday job and somehow oranother Maybe it's just even
part of their normal everydayjob and somehow or another they
end up giving it back to theirboss.
(04:20):
Now, sometimes they do this ina way that I mean I think
oftentimes they don't evenrecognize that they're doing it.
So it's kind of like hey, scott, I don't know how to do this.
And then Scott, just becausehe's being a nice guy or because
it's a day where he has a lotof stuff going on and doesn't
have, you know, time to explainit, scott just picks it up and
(04:43):
says don't worry about it, I'lltake care of it.
Or he'll tell the personexactly what to do with all the
detail you know, and maybe thatperson will go off and do it.
But the fact of the matter isis Scott is still keeping the
information in his you know, heknows how to do it, he knows
what he's doing it, and he goesin and like make sure that it
(05:05):
gets done right.
And there's a great article it'sfrom a very long time ago from
Harvard Business Review and ittalks about are you taking back
the monkeys that your employeesare giving you?
And that's really what it is.
These employees are saying, hey, I have this work to do.
Ie a monkey.
I don't want to do it, I don'tknow how to do it.
I ask so many questions aboutit that you know whatever it is.
(05:27):
And I'm saying take my monkey.
And it happens, carmen, all thetime.
And it doesn't surprise me thatit happens to you or happened
to you, because you are aguardian and as a guardian in
your PI profile, you want tohelp and serve others.
Guardians, let me take care ofyou.
(05:51):
And it is a really naturalresponse, especially in today's
world, that we have taught ourleaders a good leader is one who
supports, a good leader is onewho cares about.
And so we pick up these monkeyswhen employees and again,
they're not being jerks, theyjust want to be right or want to
be perfect or really are alittle confused and their bosses
pick up the monkeys and takecare of it instead of helping
(06:12):
the person think through it andlearn through the thinking how
to do it on their own.
So that's what reversedelegation is.
Scott (06:20):
I think there's a couple of things we have to also
reinforce here.
You said, oh, I didn't havetime to explain it.
No, I chose to not explain it.
I didn't take the time toexplain it.
Right?
As a leader, I deprioritizethat in that moment.
It happens to all of us.
I've done it right, We've alldone it, and I've probably done
(06:43):
it recently.
Okay, I think the other thingis this thing about oh, I'm
supposed to support.
I think of some of the modelsthat are bastardized, Servant
leader is the one that I findthe most.
That is very bastardized fromthe core of its existence, right
?
People think, oh well, I'msupposed to serve you.
(07:03):
No, that is not what servantleadership is, and you can go
Google that or AI or whatever itis about supporting.
Tammy (07:13):
Read the book, read the whole book, don't just read the
headline right.
Don't don't be in that spotwhere you're just skimming over
and people jump to this.
Scott (07:21):
Yeah, people jump to this .
Well, I'm being a servantleader.
No, you're being a bonehead.
Karman (07:27):
A pushover.
Scott (07:30):
And again, I think that this is there a time and a place
to take it over for them.
Sure, there, there, likely is,you know, if it's an emergency,
if it's something, it's okay.
I totally get it.
I mean, I'm thinking we wereworking on a project with one of
our team and they're not superskilled at Excel.
Now I could have sent them offto go do it and research it and
(07:54):
they would have spent hours andhours and hours on it.
When it's something, it doesn'tneed to be their core skill, it
doesn't right, it's not superimportant, I can do it quickly.
And so, yeah, in that situation, I am going to make the
decision to, like, support themon this.
Now, if it was their core skill, or it was something where,
(08:14):
like, hey, I do need you to beon your own for this.
Now, if it was their core skill, or it was something where,
like, hey, I do need you to beon your own for this, yeah,
we're going to talk through it,we're going to work through it.
They're going to do it like.
We're going to approach it very, very differently.
Tammy (08:27):
Well, an example for me of that and I'm, you know, I'm
going to just take it into aneveryday life those of you who
have all had children, like thetwo of you, have had children.
You know there are children yes, both of you do Lovely children
and you know there are timeswhen, yeah, you took care of
your kids, you took when theywere little, you changed their
(08:48):
diapers, you fed them, youclothed them.
There came a time, however,though, that you thought I'm not
changing diapers anymore, Okay,and potty training became the
thing that you guys had to do,and, like you know, no, I am not
going to every day decide whatthey're going to wear and put
their clothes on them.
They're going to decide forthemselves.
I am not going to feed themevery day.
(09:09):
I am not going to.
There comes a time where everyemployee needs to be more
independent, just like everychild goes through all of these
stages of independence.
We're not talking about doingstuff for an employee when they
do need the support.
We're talking about what is theemployee's responsibility that
(09:29):
you, as a leader, end up takingback on your shoulders when they
need to be independent in thatparticular area, Employees have
a way of reverse delegating andmany leaders have a way of
picking it up, and a big part ofit is the misunderstanding of
servant leadership.
(09:50):
The hi, I'm just a nice humanbeing and I am trying to be
supportive and kind, whichthat's the Karmans of the world.
One of the ways that you can seeif you're in that spot are you
working more than your staff?
If you are working longer andharder than your staff, if in
your brain you go oh, I can'tgive that to so-and-so because
(10:13):
you know they have kids, or Iknow this is going to be a tough
task, it's going to like takeover the weekend.
I can't give that to Billy Bob,because and so every time
you're saying I'll do it so thatyou won't give it to them, or
anytime somebody pushes back andsays I'm overwhelmed, I don't
have time, I don't know how todo this, and you put it on you
(10:34):
and you're working all the extrahours.
That's the sign that you aretaking their monkeys on.
Scott (10:40):
An element of are you justifying why someone shouldn't
do it?
Yes, and really looking at itand saying why me, why am I
doing this, and is it really mywork?
It's also an element of maybethey're not prepared to take it
today.
That is also okay.
(11:02):
Then what is your action planas a leader to prepare them?
Tammy (11:27):
And so, again, I think sometimes leaders look at, take
it away, keep this individualfrom thinking things through,
figuring things out and beingable to move forward and
independently contributing.
In this way, we, as leaders,should not be doing the thinking
for our staff.
We, if we have someone that isnot independent on this task yet
(11:52):
, should be asking questions tohelp them think it through more
deeply to come to goodconclusions, and that's the
piece where we are also doing adisservice to them.
So we've been talking about thedisservice to you, right?
Hey, you shouldn't take this on.
You're the leader.
You have other things that youneed to do, I get it.
(12:13):
And you're doing a disserviceto your staff member.
You're disabling them when youare not working with them to
think things through.
And that's what, when, scott,you started this, you're like I
didn't, you know, I chose not totake the time in this moment to
deepen the opportunity fortheir thinking and their
(12:35):
learning and their growth.
And that's, oh that's just theopposite of servant leadership
disabling people instead ofenabling people.
Scott (12:43):
And I think we have to just be real.
There are moments where itshits on fire Like we just need
to get it done, yep, like right,all of those things.
And so we're not saying you'rea bad person every moment of
every day, right or not anoptimal leader.
Or to me it is that are youcircling back to say what action
(13:06):
am I taking to turn the monkeyback over, either in that moment
or in a follow-up or in agrowth and development plan,
whether that's formally orinformally, that to me, is the
place where I think leaders trip.
I think in the moment they'relikely making many times they're
making the right decisionBecause of just the situation at
hand.
It's the, it's the secondaryplace.
(13:26):
So I always think about it asif I feel like the reverse
delegation is coming and I thinkof the Uno reverse card right,
the employees playing the Unoreverse card.
In that moment, your role is tosay why me?
And is that my job?
(13:46):
And if the answer is no, now Ihave to do a little bit of
assessment.
I have to do a little bit ofassessment, I have to do a
little bit of thinking.
Okay, I have to say, oh, dothey have the skill set to do it
.
Where are they on theleadership ladder?
Can we afford the time in thismoment to get this thing done?
They could take some time todevelop.
It's really not due till nextweek.
Hand the monkey back, hey, take, take some time.
(14:10):
Why don't you draft it?
We'll look at it on Thursday.
If it's like no, it's due todayand we're not even going to
talk about did they wait to thelast minute?
Let's just not even worry aboutthat part of the conversation.
It might be I need to take iton in this moment, and how am I
going to circle back?
Tammy (14:30):
Or what I've done many, many times is all right, I do
have to take it on in thismoment and they are going to sit
here and we're going to do ittogether.
Scott (14:40):
At least there's some learning going on in that space,
right, Because what happens isoh yeah, I'll take care of it,
and then they go off on theirmerry way.
No, let's, hey, let's.
You know what?
I can't do it right now.
One of my favorite tactics is Ican't do it right now, but I
have time at 4.30 this afternoon.
Let's work on it together then.
Tammy (14:59):
Scott, this is when your dark cloud evilness comes out.
Scott (15:05):
But you know there's a reality.
There's a reality that you know.
You have to look and say shouldthey get off the hook for this?
Tammy (15:13):
Yes, I agree with you.
And the other piece.
So, scott, what you just saidis 100% valid and, if I may add
to it for just a minute as aleader, if you never, it's like
all of these conversations arecoming to the last second Okay,
so that you now have to quoteunquote take the monkey, because
(15:37):
results are so important,output is so important and we
don't have any other options dueto time.
You have another issue and weshould talk about that in
another podcast, but that'sanother thing.
If they're coming to you andgiving you the monkey and it is
at the last moment, okay, thereis something else that's going
(15:57):
on there and you, as a leader,need to recognize that.
You've created a firefightingenvironment, and when you have
firefighting and then you praiseheroics, woo-hoo, we got it
done at the last minute.
You end up with an environmentthat that's what we do and
everybody likes being afirefighter, and you live in
this constant reactivity.
(16:18):
So that's another hint thatsomething else is going wrong
later, okay, and so we can talkabout that another time.
But I love the fact that youbrought it up.
And, yeah, you're right.
Reality is we're going to getthe work done.
Okay, and yeah, you're right.
Reality is we're going to getthe work done.
Okay, any good boss is going toensure we hit those deadlines,
we meet the metrics, we takecare of the customer.
We're not going to punish quote, unquote the employee and we're
(16:46):
not going to punish the enduser, the person who's going to
be receiving this work, by notmeeting those deadlines because
we didn't get it done on time.
We'll probably step in and getit done and circle back.
How are you going to comearound the cul-de-sac and come
right back to it and help themcontinue to learn and grow?
So this is not the norm.
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