September 17, 2025 • 28 mins
Have you ever wondered if you can truly be your authentic self at work? That question lies at the heart of our conversation, sparked by a hilarious meme: "I accidentally used my real personality at work today. I'll just take myself to HR."
We dive deep into the tension between authenticity and professionalism, exploring whether self-management means betraying who you are or simply choosing which aspects of yourself to emphasize in different contexts. The truth is, everyone has amazing qualities and challenging ones - the key is learning when to bring each forward.
Self-management isn't about changing your core values or beliefs. It's about recognizing that we all have moments when we want to react impulsively, but choosing responses that align with our long-term goals instead. As we share through personal stories (including a memorable shoe-in-the-ceiling incident and a table-slamming confrontation), those reactive moments can have significant professional consequences.
Leaders face a particular challenge since their emotions ripple throughout the organization. When a leader panics, everyone panics. This doesn't mean suppressing your true self, but rather developing awareness about how your natural tendencies affect others. The higher you rise professionally, the more critical this skill becomes.
Whether you're struggling with a reactive team member or examining your own workplace behavior, this episode offers valuable insights into balancing authenticity with effectiveness. Listen now to discover how you can be your real self at work while still creating the positive impact and relationships you desire.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tammy (00:01):
Good morning Scott and Tammy.
We need the crowd noise Yay.
Karmen (00:12):
And the crowd goes wild.
So what's up this morning,ladies and gentlemen?
Tammy (00:20):
Well, not much actually, other than the fact that I'm out
of bed and talking with all ofyou at first thing in the
morning, Butt crack of dawn.
Yeah, scott is a slave driver.
He makes us get up, like beforeanybody should be out of bed.
Karmen (00:33):
Well, also today he is on the East Coast, so it's not
even all that early for him.
Yeah, it's late for him.
Tammy (00:43):
It's super late for me.
Yeah, Karman and I are likehello.
Couldn't we have done this anhour later?
I've been up three hours.
Yuck, yuck.
Mr Bergmeier, you never sleep.
I swear you are not a personwho sleeps enough.
I just don't understand it.
Scott (01:03):
There's an amazing Weird Al song called I'll Be Mellow
when I'm Dead.
Tammy (01:07):
That is my mantra there you are, you can sleep when
you're dead.
Karmen (01:12):
I got it.
Talking about these differencesis such a great segue into what
I want to talk about today,Perfect.
So I stumbled on this memesomewhere on social media that
just made me laugh out loud.
It says I accidentally used myreal personality at work today.
(01:33):
I'll just take myself to HR.
Tammy (01:39):
I'm sorry.
That is awesome.
Scott (01:41):
Love it that is awesome, love it.
Karmen (01:45):
So my question for you guys today is like A can
somebody be their real self atwork, or do you have to not be
yourself?
And maybe do you each have astory of a time when you showed
(02:05):
up with your real self, likeyour real real self, and
regretted it.
Scott (02:12):
Oh, regretted it.
Oh see the and regretted it.
We could do that.
Tammy (02:17):
I was going to say we can do the real self thing and
regret it maybe caused usproblems, but regret.
Karmen (02:28):
Maybe we should say in the become more sense, you
brought your real self to it,and then you learned something.
Scott (02:38):
I learned that my real self is awesome Was there a vote
on that, Scott.
Yeah.
Oh, that is so funny.
I love this question I do too.
Tammy (02:53):
Oh, and I.
It's so unexpected.
I didn't see this one coming inany way, shape or form.
I love it all.
Right, mr bergme.
She's asking two really bigpersonalities, if we're allowed
to be ourselves at work, oh wow.
Scott (03:15):
Are you?
Tammy (03:16):
going to be famous, I am.
Scott (03:19):
At the end.
It really is.
It's funny because I was aguest on a podcast yesterday and
we talked about this verysubject where it was.
You know, when you're a leaderor an individual, really I don't
think it matters who you are,where you are in the hierarchy
(03:42):
of an organization it doesdepend.
There are things that areamazing about every single human
, and then there are things thatare, frankly, a pain in the ass
.
I am amazing and I'm a pain inthe ass.
I know that.
Karmen (03:57):
I switch those around.
Scott (04:01):
And sometimes there's some amazing things about me.
Okay, there we go.
All right, very good,appreciate that.
And you know how I usually talkabout it is.
If you have to say to someone,well, that's just how I am and
you just have to deal with it,that's weak sauce.
Yeah, like, is that really agood team member?
(04:24):
No, no, it's not.
And and I've met I actuallyhaven't met anyone that said oh
yeah, that's absolutely true.
And so I think, yes, you can beyourself, and ideally, you can
be yourself more and more andyou're self-managing in a way
that boosts relationships andboosts the impact, the positive
impact you're having, withoutyou feeling like icky and I'm
(04:49):
betraying my beliefs.
Like, again I always talk aboutI'm not asking you to change
your belief system, I'm notasking you to do immoral or
unethical things.
I am asking you to be a decenthuman being.
Tammy (05:01):
And there are times when all of us honestly think about
and want to be not a decenthuman being.
And there are times when all ofus honestly think about and
want to be not a decent humanbeing.
I mean, I don't think I'm theonly one who, like what I really
want to say or do in thismoment is fill in the blank and
it's not the right thing.
I want to so so badly and yet Iself-manage in that spot.
(05:22):
And I think there are folks whothink, well, maybe other people
don't think that.
I'm pretty sure we all thinksome of those things.
My parents' memorial service wasjust a little bit ago and
there's a family drama that'sgoing on and, in all honesty,
there's all sorts of things Iwanted to say and all sorts of
(05:45):
things that I wanted to do.
That would blow the whole thingup right.
It's like I know what I coulddo right now.
I could, and then you go no,that's not the right outcome I'm
looking for.
It would feel good in thenanosecond that I did it, but it
wouldn't feel good and itwouldn't be the right thing long
term.
And that's what self-managementis really about.
(06:08):
It's that piece about sayingwhat outcome am I looking for
and I am going to choose to bethe version of myself that gets
that outcome.
And there's something aboutthat to recognize hey, I'm just
being myself.
No one is that one-dimensional.
We all have the capacity tobring different facets of our
(06:31):
personality and who we are tothe table and saying, well,
that's just me is like lookingat you and saying I'm simple.
And I have to say honestly,people are not that simple.
They're just lazy in thatmoment, right, they aren't
willing to do the work ofchoosing how to behave to get
(06:53):
the outcomes that they want.
Scott (06:55):
Yeah, I would add to that .
I think sometimes it islaziness I'm choosing not to.
I think sometimes it isresilience I don't have the
mental strength because I'm woredown, I'm burnt out, I'm all of
these other things and I just Ican't.
In that moment I don't have thestrength to do it.
Karmen (07:14):
Right, and so that looking at my kids at bedtime, I
just, I just can't be a goodperson.
Tammy (07:24):
I can't be a good parent in that moment, and I will give
us that that there are momentsand times when we have stretched
ourselves so thin.
Right that I am reactive.
So don't, scott, you're right.
That's a good call in terms ofyou know, saying, hey, tammy,
what about this one?
I will tell you, though, I'veseen people use that as an
(07:47):
excuse I didn't get much sleeplast night, or I'm hangry, or
whatever it is, and I'm like,hey, if you're hearing yourself
give yourself all these excuses,and the question I have is do
you really want to be reactiveor do you want to do this
proactive stuff, so that you arenot just reacting in the moment
(08:11):
and you, like you, stop havingthat just that bit of a pause
for you to make the bestdecision in that moment?
And so, yeah, I just, I justdon't want people to let
themselves off the hook.
Even when you are stretched toothin, you're still responsible
for your actions.
You're still responsible forthe outcome of what happens in
(08:33):
that moment.
And you know, I grew up in aBaptist home and I can't tell
you how many times people said,well, I did this, but I was
drunk, right, I wasn't incontrol.
I mean, I was sauced and so notmy responsibility and I'm
thinking, yeah, you're the onewho drank how many beers.
Right, it is yourresponsibility in the end.
And in that space you have tolike say I am responsible for me
(08:58):
, I am responsible for what Isay, what I do, how it comes out
, what the tone is, how otherpeople you know, like how I
impact other people.
I am responsible, is that?
Karmen (09:08):
the message If you manage somebody, if you're the
leader for somebody who doesn'tself-manage very well, like, how
do you deal with that as aleader?
Tammy (09:20):
Yeah, that's the piece, right.
So Scott and I both have anindividual that Scott's coaching
this person today.
I have coached this person inthe past.
They are, by nature, reactiveokay, something happens and they
go from zero to 60, just likethat.
And they go from zero to 60,just like that.
(09:45):
The other piece of kind oftheir natural style is that you
know the sky is falling, the skyis falling kind of thing, but
then they also want to telleverybody that the sky is
falling.
So this is who they probablyare on a regular basis.
Now the question I would have isis that helping you or hurting
you in your life, in your career?
This is who you are naturally,I get it.
Is that helping you or hurtingyou?
(10:06):
And do you want it to bedifferent?
Organizational responsibilitymuch of it that there's
information that this personwill get prior to it being
(10:27):
knowledge inside theorganization and how we respond
to things.
This person has an ability toimpact the organization and have
people say and have people say,hey, life is good, or holy crap
, the ship is sinking.
So here is this piece.
Natural thing is I want to gostart panicking, but they're in
(10:54):
a leadership position and when aleader panics, the organization
panics, right, when the leaderblurts.
We sometimes share things thatwe're not ready to share.
We haven't figured out the bestway, and so this is an example
of can you be yourself?
Well, yes, and there areconsequences.
So I'm not asking you to changewhat I believe in.
(11:19):
I'm not asking you to changewhat's important.
So it's not a value set, it'snot those things.
But there are ways that we, ashuman beings, bring ourselves to
the table that hurt or helpsituations, and the skill of
self-management is one that Ibelieve.
If you're going to continue torise inside of an organization,
(11:44):
you need to manage it, and ifyou're reporting to Tammy Rogers
, I'm going to.
I don't care, it's your firstjob or it's your fifth job,
you're 22 or you're 62.
I am going to be talking withpeople about choosing their
response versus just reacting tostimulus, and when you choose
(12:08):
your response, I think you havea better opportunity for having
outcomes that you're looking forand hoping for.
So, yeah, Karman, that's likefigure it out, figure it out.
So, scott, the question wasthere's a story.
Okay, maybe we regret.
Scott (12:28):
I do not have a story that I regret, so I don't know
that I can share.
Oh shit, she changed it to that.
You know, maybe is a youlearned from, yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, my story, yes, I, ofcourse I have a story there,
believe it or not.
There were two times in mycareer where I, like I well, I
(12:52):
would say I lost control and Iabsolutely blistered someone.
Okay now, did I back peopleinto corners?
Did I ask them hard questions?
Yeah, I've done that thousandsand thousands of thousands of
times.
Karmen (13:04):
okay, so the backstory is feeling about it gleefully
totally I got him in a corneryeah yeah, how are you, little
mouse mouse?
Tammy (13:19):
Oh Scott, oh my gosh.
Okay, folks, just pleaseunderstand that is not a really
good leadership plan and Scottis evil there.
You've just heard Scott evil,it's okay.
Scott (13:31):
So the you know the backstory is I was quality
director at an organization.
I had transitioned into more ofa operations improvement kind
of role.
The quality director left andso they asked me hey, can you do
both jobs for a while while wefind the replacement?
So I'm doing this other job andthere's a new leader at the
(13:53):
facility and actually still tothis day is the hardest leader
I've ever worked for.
He's so hard to understand, notclear, et cetera.
Hard is in the right spot,really challenging, and we have
an audit from the corporateoffice and they're in, and so
I've been doing double duty fora little more than six months at
(14:16):
this time.
And this auditor is I've notever really liked him, you know,
I've known him for a while.
I've never really liked him.
So that contribute, I'm surecontributed, and you know he's
going through the here's all thethings you're doing wrong as as
a plant, you know, and we're onlike number 50 or 60.
(14:40):
And like I'm pushing back on afew because we have data and we
have approval from corporatecorporate office that we don't
have to do this.
But he's saying we have to andI'm pushing back like no, like
we have data, it's reallydoesn't impact our product, it's
adds a lot of burden burden.
(15:00):
It's going to slow down.
It's pretty significant change.
And he keeps saying it's easy,it's easy, it's easy, it's easy.
Everything you just implementedit's easy.
And I turned to him in themiddle of the meeting and
there's eight or 10 people inthis room and I slammed my head
(15:21):
on the table and I say I lookedat him and I say his first name
and I said, if it's so easy, whydon't you come here and be the
quality director and show me howeasy it is?
and it was quiet in that roomfor what felt like an eternity,
(15:44):
as I had had it up to right and,you know, not my best moment,
but damn it felt good.
Tammy (15:53):
Did you get in trouble?
I did not.
Oh wow, they didn't hold youaccountable.
Nope, so you don't regret it.
Did you get what you want?
That was Karman's question.
Did you get what you wanted?
Scott (16:04):
Oh yeah, we never implemented that.
Tammy (16:10):
We never.
Scott (16:13):
Oh, Scott, you just gave permission to lose their temper.
Oh, I know, and you know what'sso.
Here's the thing.
What's so bad about this?
I've never apologized either,Wow, and I should have
absolutely had my ass handed tome Like absolutely.
Tammy (16:25):
Yeah, yeah Right.
Karmen (16:26):
The lesson learned?
What was the lesson?
Scott (16:30):
I mean really.
So to me, the lesson is therelationship with people that we
needed to create partnershipright At our facility.
There had been a history ofrough relationship with the
local corporate office.
That did not help.
All that did is create, youknow, is just to continue the
(16:54):
belief that, oh, that locationis hard to work with, oh,
they're really not supportive ofthe corporate philosophy right
Now.
Over time that did change and Iknow this person's direct boss
eventually actually came to theplant and worked and this
person's boss's boss, who Inever thought really changed,
(17:17):
who I never thought like reallychanged, like it was nice to see
that over time some of theiropinions about the organization
and about me evolved.
But you just think of all thegoodwill that was done, that
eroded in that moment, just likethat.
And yeah, okay, I should nothave treated that person that
(17:39):
way and it didn't help us.
Now I chuckle about it and Ithink about, okay, that was a
moment that I'm like, oh, that'sgross.
Now did I break my point?
Tammy (17:53):
Sure did At the expense of somebody else, at the expense
of your reputation which, bythe way, you had to work really
hard in that organizationbecause you did have a little
bit of a reputation that wasn'tpositive.
Scott (18:07):
Oh sure.
Tammy (18:08):
Yeah, and it was things like that, that actually early
in your career.
Scott (18:13):
Well, it was things like that, and and realizing that I
could go to the corporate,corporate office and go outside
the chain of command to getthings done, and that was really
not appreciated.
And the bad thing is still, tothis day, I would do the same
thing, because I watched uswaste millions and millions of
(18:35):
dollars and I can't like that.
To me, like that is a whole,whole nother conversation of,
like other conversation of whywould we continue to waste
millions and millions of dollarswhen we know it's okay?
Yeah, because of politicalstupidity.
Sorry, I won't flex for that.
(18:56):
Sorry, tammy, I'm not going towatch us Same thing for our
organization.
I'm not going to watch us wastethousands and thousands of
dollars.
Tammy (19:05):
If you slam your fist on the table and use the F word
while you're talking with me, itwill have long term
implications.
Scott (19:13):
Oh I, won't do that with you.
Yeah, I might do that with somestaff.
No, I'm just kidding.
Let's hope not, let's hope not.
Actually, I think what weshould do at our next staff
retreat is we'll draw a name outof that, Like who is the target
this year?
Oh, that's yeah.
Tammy (19:29):
Yeah, we'll just be like okay, we're going to Now I know
I'm not going to the staffretreat and Karman's like sorry,
got plans, got to do somethingelse, even though it's been on
the calendar for a year Gotplans.
Karmen (19:44):
You have to wash my hair that night.
Tammy (19:47):
Well, my story is not as dramatic.
Okay, I was early in my career27.
And early enough in anorganization where, like, we had
what I would say say kind of acapacity issue with some
technology, and one technologywas the printer.
(20:07):
Okay, we had one primaryprinter that we could use and so
when we needed to print a lotof stuff, we had to coordinate
it with other people.
And I had a project and I had aboss, and, by the way, my best
boss ever, paul, best boss ever,paul was very strict about like
deadlines and he was like, hey,when I tell you it needs to be
(20:30):
done Friday, I'm not sayingFriday at midnight, I am
actually saying Friday at noon.
Right, this is what it means.
And he was very, very clearabout deadlines and I was used
to kind of being able to likeskate by and it was, you know,
it's like hey, it's 1159.
It's it's PM, it's it's on yourdesk, and and Paul was not
(20:53):
having any of that.
And so he was very, very clearwith me about deadlines and I
knew that this thing that Ineeded to print was going to
take a couple of hours and inorder to get that done, I was
like needed to claim the printer.
And I went to the other personthat oftentimes needed the
(21:14):
printer and she was like I alsohave a deadline, okay, and I
need to print as well.
So we had a nice conversationand I was going to come in early
and I was going to startprinting at 730.
And then she would take over atabout 930, 10 o'clock and that
would allow both of us to hitour noon deadlines that day.
So we negotiated and I'm happyand I come in to start the
(21:38):
printer and the printer has beenmoved, and I come in to start
the printer and the printer hasbeen moved, it has been moved
into her office and her computeris directly plugged into the
printer and she is alreadyprinting.
And I am so angry I mean I,scott, I wanted to slam my fist
(21:58):
on the table and use the F word.
I mean, trust me, I was sobecause we had negotiated it
right, and if she had said Ineeded to go second, that's fine
, right.
But I mean we negotiated, weput a plan, we made a promise to
one another and then she gotthere before I did, undid our
promise and did this other thingand to make it worse, my boss,
(22:20):
paul, was the one who moved theprinter into her office and
connected it.
So like she actually went andgot my boss to do something that
could cause me to miss thedeadline.
And I am, I am angry as can be.
I mean, I can't even describehow angry I was and I walked out
of her office and this is backin the days when I had to wear
(22:42):
suits, three-inch heels, right.
So I had on this beautiful redsuit, I had on these gorgeous
heels, and I am ticked off andanybody who knows me when I am
mad, my face is beet red.
So my face matched my suit andI took my right foot and I got
out of her office and I justkicked it, like you know, just
(23:07):
get some of that anger out.
Well, that flipping shoe wentflying in the air and you know
those acoustical tiles that areon ceilings.
It literally went up in the airand it stuck into the
acoustical tile, okay, and I'mstanding there and Paul comes
around the corner and I'mlooking up at the shoe in the
ceiling and so he's looking atme and I'm standing there on one
heel, right that littlecockeyed thing.
I'm looking up.
So he looks up and that shoe isright above his head.
(23:30):
Okay, and I mean in an instant.
I'm like I am totally andcompletely.
I have shown my ass to my bossright In that particular moment,
and Paul was a tall guy and soall he had to do was a little
hop and he hops, grabs my shoe,walks over, gives it to me and
(23:52):
says get it.
I thought, I had a moment ofprivacy that I could react and
respond.
I was past this person's officethat you know.
(24:15):
There's doors down this hallwaybut they have those skinny
little windows so no one couldreally see, so I thought it was
all private.
There was nothing about thisthat ended up being private.
And, of course, where do youthink that came up again?
Unlike Scott who never, ever gotheld accountable for pounding
(24:36):
the table.
It came up in my performancereview and it came up and,
honestly, they use the wordimmature, right, and that I was
immature and I was obviously notready for the next step.
Okay, I have to be honest withyou that they weren't wrong.
(24:56):
Okay, I needed to be able torespond instead of react and I
was super reactive in thatmoment.
I thought I had done everythingright that I had negotiated, I
had, it was connected, it tooklonger than it should have and I
(25:23):
was not done.
My stuff was not done, printingat noon and I had to go sit in
Paul's office and tell himhere's the first XYZ number of
pages, the rest will be done,Fill in the blank.
So I got two whammies.
I did not meet the deadline and, to be honest with you, it also
because someone broke theirpromise to me.
(25:45):
It changed our relationship inthat particular space as well.
You know that was somethingthat stood between me and this
other person all the time, andthen we started playing this
game who is going to get in theoffice first so that they can
own the resource instead ofsharing it right, Instead of
(26:05):
figuring it out, instead ofworking together to make it
happen.
All right.
I will also say it neveroccurred to the two of us to go
to our bosses and say, hey, thisresource is a limitation and is
there a way for us to do thisdifferently?
Okay, which could have been.
It never even occurred to me atthat particular time period and
(26:25):
I know what Paul would havesaid.
He said no, and you've got toget your stuff done earlier so
that printing is not so tight onthe very last day and I get
that now.
But at the moment I should haveat least had the conversation
about constraints and thoughtthat through and worked on that
relationship.
Afterwards I did not work onthat relationship with that
(26:46):
co-worker who undermined me.
I just started playing the game.
So that is another thing inretrospect, right that I needed
to.
Even though someone else maybemade a mistake, didn't do
something I appreciated.
Someone else maybe made amistake, didn't do something I
appreciated, I needed to also goback and say, hey, we need to
work this out.
We shouldn't be fighting, We'vegot to figure this resource
(27:08):
thing out.
So interesting lessons in thatparticular spot.
Yeah, three-inch heels stuck inthe ceiling.
I still have that visual in myhead about that shoe in the
ceiling and Paul jumping up andhanding it.
Get your act together.
Oh, grow up, Tammy, grow up.
Good morning Scott and Tammy.
We need the crowd noise Yay.
Karmen (00:12):
And the crowd goes wild.
So what's up this morning,ladies and gentlemen?
Tammy (00:20):
Well, not much actually, other than the fact that I'm out
of bed and talking with all ofyou at first thing in the
morning, Butt crack of dawn.
Yeah, scott is a slave driver.
He makes us get up, like beforeanybody should be out of bed.
Karmen (00:33):
Well, also today he is on the East Coast, so it's not
even all that early for him.
Yeah, it's late for him.
Tammy (00:43):
It's super late for me.
Yeah, Karman and I are likehello.
Couldn't we have done this anhour later?
I've been up three hours.
Yuck, yuck.
Mr Bergmeier, you never sleep.
I swear you are not a personwho sleeps enough.
I just don't understand it.
Scott (01:03):
There's an amazing Weird Al song called I'll Be Mellow
when I'm Dead.
Tammy (01:07):
That is my mantra there you are, you can sleep when
you're dead.
Karmen (01:12):
I got it.
Talking about these differencesis such a great segue into what
I want to talk about today,Perfect.
So I stumbled on this memesomewhere on social media that
just made me laugh out loud.
It says I accidentally used myreal personality at work today.
(01:33):
I'll just take myself to HR.
Tammy (01:39):
I'm sorry.
That is awesome.
Scott (01:41):
Love it that is awesome, love it.
Karmen (01:45):
So my question for you guys today is like A can
somebody be their real self atwork, or do you have to not be
yourself?
And maybe do you each have astory of a time when you showed
(02:05):
up with your real self, likeyour real real self, and
regretted it.
Scott (02:12):
Oh, regretted it.
Oh see the and regretted it.
We could do that.
Tammy (02:17):
I was going to say we can do the real self thing and
regret it maybe caused usproblems, but regret.
Karmen (02:28):
Maybe we should say in the become more sense, you
brought your real self to it,and then you learned something.
Scott (02:38):
I learned that my real self is awesome Was there a vote
on that, Scott.
Yeah.
Oh, that is so funny.
I love this question I do too.
Tammy (02:53):
Oh, and I.
It's so unexpected.
I didn't see this one coming inany way, shape or form.
I love it all.
Right, mr bergme.
She's asking two really bigpersonalities, if we're allowed
to be ourselves at work, oh wow.
Scott (03:15):
Are you?
Tammy (03:16):
going to be famous, I am.
Scott (03:19):
At the end.
It really is.
It's funny because I was aguest on a podcast yesterday and
we talked about this verysubject where it was.
You know, when you're a leaderor an individual, really I don't
think it matters who you are,where you are in the hierarchy
(03:42):
of an organization it doesdepend.
There are things that areamazing about every single human
, and then there are things thatare, frankly, a pain in the ass
.
I am amazing and I'm a pain inthe ass.
I know that.
Karmen (03:57):
I switch those around.
Scott (04:01):
And sometimes there's some amazing things about me.
Okay, there we go.
All right, very good,appreciate that.
And you know how I usually talkabout it is.
If you have to say to someone,well, that's just how I am and
you just have to deal with it,that's weak sauce.
Yeah, like, is that really agood team member?
(04:24):
No, no, it's not.
And and I've met I actuallyhaven't met anyone that said oh
yeah, that's absolutely true.
And so I think, yes, you can beyourself, and ideally, you can
be yourself more and more andyou're self-managing in a way
that boosts relationships andboosts the impact, the positive
impact you're having, withoutyou feeling like icky and I'm
(04:49):
betraying my beliefs.
Like, again I always talk aboutI'm not asking you to change
your belief system, I'm notasking you to do immoral or
unethical things.
I am asking you to be a decenthuman being.
Tammy (05:01):
And there are times when all of us honestly think about
and want to be not a decenthuman being.
And there are times when all ofus honestly think about and
want to be not a decent humanbeing.
I mean, I don't think I'm theonly one who, like what I really
want to say or do in thismoment is fill in the blank and
it's not the right thing.
I want to so so badly and yet Iself-manage in that spot.
(05:22):
And I think there are folks whothink, well, maybe other people
don't think that.
I'm pretty sure we all thinksome of those things.
My parents' memorial service wasjust a little bit ago and
there's a family drama that'sgoing on and, in all honesty,
there's all sorts of things Iwanted to say and all sorts of
(05:45):
things that I wanted to do.
That would blow the whole thingup right.
It's like I know what I coulddo right now.
I could, and then you go no,that's not the right outcome I'm
looking for.
It would feel good in thenanosecond that I did it, but it
wouldn't feel good and itwouldn't be the right thing long
term.
And that's what self-managementis really about.
(06:08):
It's that piece about sayingwhat outcome am I looking for
and I am going to choose to bethe version of myself that gets
that outcome.
And there's something aboutthat to recognize hey, I'm just
being myself.
No one is that one-dimensional.
We all have the capacity tobring different facets of our
(06:31):
personality and who we are tothe table and saying, well,
that's just me is like lookingat you and saying I'm simple.
And I have to say honestly,people are not that simple.
They're just lazy in thatmoment, right, they aren't
willing to do the work ofchoosing how to behave to get
(06:53):
the outcomes that they want.
Scott (06:55):
Yeah, I would add to that .
I think sometimes it islaziness I'm choosing not to.
I think sometimes it isresilience I don't have the
mental strength because I'm woredown, I'm burnt out, I'm all of
these other things and I just Ican't.
In that moment I don't have thestrength to do it.
Karmen (07:14):
Right, and so that looking at my kids at bedtime, I
just, I just can't be a goodperson.
Tammy (07:24):
I can't be a good parent in that moment, and I will give
us that that there are momentsand times when we have stretched
ourselves so thin.
Right that I am reactive.
So don't, scott, you're right.
That's a good call in terms ofyou know, saying, hey, tammy,
what about this one?
I will tell you, though, I'veseen people use that as an
(07:47):
excuse I didn't get much sleeplast night, or I'm hangry, or
whatever it is, and I'm like,hey, if you're hearing yourself
give yourself all these excuses,and the question I have is do
you really want to be reactiveor do you want to do this
proactive stuff, so that you arenot just reacting in the moment
(08:11):
and you, like you, stop havingthat just that bit of a pause
for you to make the bestdecision in that moment?
And so, yeah, I just, I justdon't want people to let
themselves off the hook.
Even when you are stretched toothin, you're still responsible
for your actions.
You're still responsible forthe outcome of what happens in
(08:33):
that moment.
And you know, I grew up in aBaptist home and I can't tell
you how many times people said,well, I did this, but I was
drunk, right, I wasn't incontrol.
I mean, I was sauced and so notmy responsibility and I'm
thinking, yeah, you're the onewho drank how many beers.
Right, it is yourresponsibility in the end.
And in that space you have tolike say I am responsible for me
(08:58):
, I am responsible for what Isay, what I do, how it comes out
, what the tone is, how otherpeople you know, like how I
impact other people.
I am responsible, is that?
Karmen (09:08):
the message If you manage somebody, if you're the
leader for somebody who doesn'tself-manage very well, like, how
do you deal with that as aleader?
Tammy (09:20):
Yeah, that's the piece, right.
So Scott and I both have anindividual that Scott's coaching
this person today.
I have coached this person inthe past.
They are, by nature, reactiveokay, something happens and they
go from zero to 60, just likethat.
And they go from zero to 60,just like that.
(09:45):
The other piece of kind oftheir natural style is that you
know the sky is falling, the skyis falling kind of thing, but
then they also want to telleverybody that the sky is
falling.
So this is who they probablyare on a regular basis.
Now the question I would have isis that helping you or hurting
you in your life, in your career?
This is who you are naturally,I get it.
Is that helping you or hurtingyou?
(10:06):
And do you want it to bedifferent?
Organizational responsibilitymuch of it that there's
information that this personwill get prior to it being
(10:27):
knowledge inside theorganization and how we respond
to things.
This person has an ability toimpact the organization and have
people say and have people say,hey, life is good, or holy crap
, the ship is sinking.
So here is this piece.
Natural thing is I want to gostart panicking, but they're in
(10:54):
a leadership position and when aleader panics, the organization
panics, right, when the leaderblurts.
We sometimes share things thatwe're not ready to share.
We haven't figured out the bestway, and so this is an example
of can you be yourself?
Well, yes, and there areconsequences.
So I'm not asking you to changewhat I believe in.
(11:19):
I'm not asking you to changewhat's important.
So it's not a value set, it'snot those things.
But there are ways that we, ashuman beings, bring ourselves to
the table that hurt or helpsituations, and the skill of
self-management is one that Ibelieve.
If you're going to continue torise inside of an organization,
(11:44):
you need to manage it, and ifyou're reporting to Tammy Rogers
, I'm going to.
I don't care, it's your firstjob or it's your fifth job,
you're 22 or you're 62.
I am going to be talking withpeople about choosing their
response versus just reacting tostimulus, and when you choose
(12:08):
your response, I think you havea better opportunity for having
outcomes that you're looking forand hoping for.
So, yeah, Karman, that's likefigure it out, figure it out.
So, scott, the question wasthere's a story.
Okay, maybe we regret.
Scott (12:28):
I do not have a story that I regret, so I don't know
that I can share.
Oh shit, she changed it to that.
You know, maybe is a youlearned from, yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, my story, yes, I, ofcourse I have a story there,
believe it or not.
There were two times in mycareer where I, like I well, I
(12:52):
would say I lost control and Iabsolutely blistered someone.
Okay now, did I back peopleinto corners?
Did I ask them hard questions?
Yeah, I've done that thousandsand thousands of thousands of
times.
Karmen (13:04):
okay, so the backstory is feeling about it gleefully
totally I got him in a corneryeah yeah, how are you, little
mouse mouse?
Tammy (13:19):
Oh Scott, oh my gosh.
Okay, folks, just pleaseunderstand that is not a really
good leadership plan and Scottis evil there.
You've just heard Scott evil,it's okay.
Scott (13:31):
So the you know the backstory is I was quality
director at an organization.
I had transitioned into more ofa operations improvement kind
of role.
The quality director left andso they asked me hey, can you do
both jobs for a while while wefind the replacement?
So I'm doing this other job andthere's a new leader at the
(13:53):
facility and actually still tothis day is the hardest leader
I've ever worked for.
He's so hard to understand, notclear, et cetera.
Hard is in the right spot,really challenging, and we have
an audit from the corporateoffice and they're in, and so
I've been doing double duty fora little more than six months at
(14:16):
this time.
And this auditor is I've notever really liked him, you know,
I've known him for a while.
I've never really liked him.
So that contribute, I'm surecontributed, and you know he's
going through the here's all thethings you're doing wrong as as
a plant, you know, and we're onlike number 50 or 60.
(14:40):
And like I'm pushing back on afew because we have data and we
have approval from corporatecorporate office that we don't
have to do this.
But he's saying we have to andI'm pushing back like no, like
we have data, it's reallydoesn't impact our product, it's
adds a lot of burden burden.
(15:00):
It's going to slow down.
It's pretty significant change.
And he keeps saying it's easy,it's easy, it's easy, it's easy.
Everything you just implementedit's easy.
And I turned to him in themiddle of the meeting and
there's eight or 10 people inthis room and I slammed my head
(15:21):
on the table and I say I lookedat him and I say his first name
and I said, if it's so easy, whydon't you come here and be the
quality director and show me howeasy it is?
and it was quiet in that roomfor what felt like an eternity,
(15:44):
as I had had it up to right and,you know, not my best moment,
but damn it felt good.
Tammy (15:53):
Did you get in trouble?
I did not.
Oh wow, they didn't hold youaccountable.
Nope, so you don't regret it.
Did you get what you want?
That was Karman's question.
Did you get what you wanted?
Scott (16:04):
Oh yeah, we never implemented that.
Tammy (16:10):
We never.
Scott (16:13):
Oh, Scott, you just gave permission to lose their temper.
Oh, I know, and you know what'sso.
Here's the thing.
What's so bad about this?
I've never apologized either,Wow, and I should have
absolutely had my ass handed tome Like absolutely.
Tammy (16:25):
Yeah, yeah Right.
Karmen (16:26):
The lesson learned?
What was the lesson?
Scott (16:30):
I mean really.
So to me, the lesson is therelationship with people that we
needed to create partnershipright At our facility.
There had been a history ofrough relationship with the
local corporate office.
That did not help.
All that did is create, youknow, is just to continue the
(16:54):
belief that, oh, that locationis hard to work with, oh,
they're really not supportive ofthe corporate philosophy right
Now.
Over time that did change and Iknow this person's direct boss
eventually actually came to theplant and worked and this
person's boss's boss, who Inever thought really changed,
(17:17):
who I never thought like reallychanged, like it was nice to see
that over time some of theiropinions about the organization
and about me evolved.
But you just think of all thegoodwill that was done, that
eroded in that moment, just likethat.
And yeah, okay, I should nothave treated that person that
(17:39):
way and it didn't help us.
Now I chuckle about it and Ithink about, okay, that was a
moment that I'm like, oh, that'sgross.
Now did I break my point?
Tammy (17:53):
Sure did At the expense of somebody else, at the expense
of your reputation which, bythe way, you had to work really
hard in that organizationbecause you did have a little
bit of a reputation that wasn'tpositive.
Scott (18:07):
Oh sure.
Tammy (18:08):
Yeah, and it was things like that, that actually early
in your career.
Scott (18:13):
Well, it was things like that, and and realizing that I
could go to the corporate,corporate office and go outside
the chain of command to getthings done, and that was really
not appreciated.
And the bad thing is still, tothis day, I would do the same
thing, because I watched uswaste millions and millions of
(18:35):
dollars and I can't like that.
To me, like that is a whole,whole nother conversation of,
like other conversation of whywould we continue to waste
millions and millions of dollarswhen we know it's okay?
Yeah, because of politicalstupidity.
Sorry, I won't flex for that.
(18:56):
Sorry, tammy, I'm not going towatch us Same thing for our
organization.
I'm not going to watch us wastethousands and thousands of
dollars.
Tammy (19:05):
If you slam your fist on the table and use the F word
while you're talking with me, itwill have long term
implications.
Scott (19:13):
Oh I, won't do that with you.
Yeah, I might do that with somestaff.
No, I'm just kidding.
Let's hope not, let's hope not.
Actually, I think what weshould do at our next staff
retreat is we'll draw a name outof that, Like who is the target
this year?
Oh, that's yeah.
Tammy (19:29):
Yeah, we'll just be like okay, we're going to Now I know
I'm not going to the staffretreat and Karman's like sorry,
got plans, got to do somethingelse, even though it's been on
the calendar for a year Gotplans.
Karmen (19:44):
You have to wash my hair that night.
Tammy (19:47):
Well, my story is not as dramatic.
Okay, I was early in my career27.
And early enough in anorganization where, like, we had
what I would say say kind of acapacity issue with some
technology, and one technologywas the printer.
(20:07):
Okay, we had one primaryprinter that we could use and so
when we needed to print a lotof stuff, we had to coordinate
it with other people.
And I had a project and I had aboss, and, by the way, my best
boss ever, paul, best boss ever,paul was very strict about like
deadlines and he was like, hey,when I tell you it needs to be
(20:30):
done Friday, I'm not sayingFriday at midnight, I am
actually saying Friday at noon.
Right, this is what it means.
And he was very, very clearabout deadlines and I was used
to kind of being able to likeskate by and it was, you know,
it's like hey, it's 1159.
It's it's PM, it's it's on yourdesk, and and Paul was not
(20:53):
having any of that.
And so he was very, very clearwith me about deadlines and I
knew that this thing that Ineeded to print was going to
take a couple of hours and inorder to get that done, I was
like needed to claim the printer.
And I went to the other personthat oftentimes needed the
(21:14):
printer and she was like I alsohave a deadline, okay, and I
need to print as well.
So we had a nice conversationand I was going to come in early
and I was going to startprinting at 730.
And then she would take over atabout 930, 10 o'clock and that
would allow both of us to hitour noon deadlines that day.
So we negotiated and I'm happyand I come in to start the
(21:38):
printer and the printer has beenmoved, and I come in to start
the printer and the printer hasbeen moved, it has been moved
into her office and her computeris directly plugged into the
printer and she is alreadyprinting.
And I am so angry I mean I,scott, I wanted to slam my fist
(21:58):
on the table and use the F word.
I mean, trust me, I was sobecause we had negotiated it
right, and if she had said Ineeded to go second, that's fine
, right.
But I mean we negotiated, weput a plan, we made a promise to
one another and then she gotthere before I did, undid our
promise and did this other thingand to make it worse, my boss,
(22:20):
paul, was the one who moved theprinter into her office and
connected it.
So like she actually went andgot my boss to do something that
could cause me to miss thedeadline.
And I am, I am angry as can be.
I mean, I can't even describehow angry I was and I walked out
of her office and this is backin the days when I had to wear
(22:42):
suits, three-inch heels, right.
So I had on this beautiful redsuit, I had on these gorgeous
heels, and I am ticked off andanybody who knows me when I am
mad, my face is beet red.
So my face matched my suit andI took my right foot and I got
out of her office and I justkicked it, like you know, just
(23:07):
get some of that anger out.
Well, that flipping shoe wentflying in the air and you know
those acoustical tiles that areon ceilings.
It literally went up in the airand it stuck into the
acoustical tile, okay, and I'mstanding there and Paul comes
around the corner and I'mlooking up at the shoe in the
ceiling and so he's looking atme and I'm standing there on one
heel, right that littlecockeyed thing.
I'm looking up.
So he looks up and that shoe isright above his head.
(23:30):
Okay, and I mean in an instant.
I'm like I am totally andcompletely.
I have shown my ass to my bossright In that particular moment,
and Paul was a tall guy and soall he had to do was a little
hop and he hops, grabs my shoe,walks over, gives it to me and
(23:52):
says get it.
I thought, I had a moment ofprivacy that I could react and
respond.
I was past this person's officethat you know.
(24:15):
There's doors down this hallwaybut they have those skinny
little windows so no one couldreally see, so I thought it was
all private.
There was nothing about thisthat ended up being private.
And, of course, where do youthink that came up again?
Unlike Scott who never, ever gotheld accountable for pounding
(24:36):
the table.
It came up in my performancereview and it came up and,
honestly, they use the wordimmature, right, and that I was
immature and I was obviously notready for the next step.
Okay, I have to be honest withyou that they weren't wrong.
(24:56):
Okay, I needed to be able torespond instead of react and I
was super reactive in thatmoment.
I thought I had done everythingright that I had negotiated, I
had, it was connected, it tooklonger than it should have and I
(25:23):
was not done.
My stuff was not done, printingat noon and I had to go sit in
Paul's office and tell himhere's the first XYZ number of
pages, the rest will be done,Fill in the blank.
So I got two whammies.
I did not meet the deadline and, to be honest with you, it also
because someone broke theirpromise to me.
(25:45):
It changed our relationship inthat particular space as well.
You know that was somethingthat stood between me and this
other person all the time, andthen we started playing this
game who is going to get in theoffice first so that they can
own the resource instead ofsharing it right, Instead of
(26:05):
figuring it out, instead ofworking together to make it
happen.
All right.
I will also say it neveroccurred to the two of us to go
to our bosses and say, hey, thisresource is a limitation and is
there a way for us to do thisdifferently?
Okay, which could have been.
It never even occurred to me atthat particular time period and
(26:25):
I know what Paul would havesaid.
He said no, and you've got toget your stuff done earlier so
that printing is not so tight onthe very last day and I get
that now.
But at the moment I should haveat least had the conversation
about constraints and thoughtthat through and worked on that
relationship.
Afterwards I did not work onthat relationship with that
(26:46):
co-worker who undermined me.
I just started playing the game.
So that is another thing inretrospect, right that I needed
to.
Even though someone else maybemade a mistake, didn't do
something I appreciated.
Someone else maybe made amistake, didn't do something I
appreciated, I needed to also goback and say, hey, we need to
work this out.
We shouldn't be fighting, We'vegot to figure this resource
(27:08):
thing out.
So interesting lessons in thatparticular spot.
Yeah, three-inch heels stuck inthe ceiling.
I still have that visual in myhead about that shoe in the
ceiling and Paul jumping up andhanding it.
Get your act together.
Oh, grow up, Tammy, grow up.
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