July 16, 2025 • 20 mins
What happens when our pursuit of excellence crosses the line into wasted effort? We dive into the psychology behind "wasted excellence" – that tendency to overcomplicate, overthink, and overdeliver when it doesn't actually serve anyone.
We unpack the telling signs you might be trapped in this pattern: delivering products far beyond what clients request, documenting and re-documenting unnecessarily, doing your employees' work for them, or being unable to let decisions stand. This isn't about lowering standards; it's about aligning your efforts with realistic expectations. What feels like "C work" to a perfectionist might still register as exceptional to everyone else.
The revelation that might sting most? Your reputation often suffers rather than improves from perfectionism. When you're consumed with making one thing flawless, you miss opportunities to add value elsewhere. Excellence should be measured not just in quality but in impact across multiple initiatives. We challenge you to consider who truly sets the standard for acceptable work – is it you, or is it your stakeholders? Breaking free starts with admitting the pattern, making incremental changes, and embracing iteration as a faster path to quality than isolated perfection. How might redefining excellence change your productivity and satisfaction?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Karman (00:02):
hello scott and tammy.
Good morning Karman.
Yo Karman I.
I feel now like I'm in a ricolaad hold that uh for a while
every time I see the ricolacommercial I think Sound of
(00:24):
Music.
Tammy (00:26):
Yeah, I think it's intended Mountain singing.
Karman (00:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Scott (00:30):
Yeah.
Karman (00:32):
Because the hills are alive.
So, scott, what is your?
This is not our question today.
What is your favorite Sound ofMusic song?
Tammy (00:39):
Oh, oh, probably the Doe of Deer, it's not that one.
Scott (00:46):
That's the end.
It's the doe deer one is that.
Karman (00:51):
Oh, is that the end?
I don't know.
Scott (00:53):
I only say that one because it reminds reminds me of
a Simpsons episode where Homercrashes through a a bush and
hits a statue of a deer and hesays you know, as Homer always
does, and then Lisa in the backgoes a statue of a deer.
And he says you know, as homeralways does.
And then lisa in the back goesa deer, a female deer I knew it
couldn't be.
Tammy (01:11):
It's funny that it's a homer simpson.
We're talking about the soundof music, but somehow it moves
to homer simpson.
That tells you everything youneed to know about sound of
music and homer simpson.
Scott (01:22):
It's like they're not even in the same stratosphere.
Tammy (01:25):
I'm pretty sure that there's something in there that
we could make into a televisionshow.
Scott (01:31):
Absolutely.
You know what.
What we could do is?
We could start to do like abetting tree on the Simpsons
predictions.
Tammy (01:44):
The Simpsons predictions.
The Simpsons predictions.
Scott (01:46):
I'm sorry, I'm not a.
Tammy (01:47):
Simpson fan.
What is that so?
Scott (01:49):
just just.
This will not be great for thepodcast, but it is great.
It is fascinating If you lookup Simpsons predictions that
have come true.
It's a little scary.
Tammy (02:04):
So the writers at the Simpson have have um they,
they're futurists yes, okay, ordepending on.
Depending on, you know what youbelieve, it's just interesting
well, now you have a bunch ofpeople curious and my guess is
they'll be out looking at that.
All right, Karman, we're up toyou, yeah.
Karman (02:26):
So I live in a really great neighborhood.
For lots of reasons I love myneighborhood and one of them is
our neighborhood association.
We have a really activeneighborhood association with
people who make stuff happen,and it's really lovely.
(02:47):
And there are a couple ofpeople in our neighborhood
association who like to makeeverything into brain surgery,
like let's make it reallycomplicated.
Let, few years ago, the womanwho was in charge of getting
(03:08):
volunteers for our littlegardens on the boulevard, little
flower gardens, for like 10garden plots I think she had
like 60 people recruited Likeyay her.
People recruited like yay her.
(03:28):
But there was the person whowas gonna till it up and there
was the person who was gonnabring a snack to the person who
was tilling it up and that andI'm not even exaggerating about
that, um.
So all of which has made methink a little bit when I'm at a
neighborhood associationmeeting, like how much of this
is wasted excellence.
Scott (03:48):
Like Tami and Scott, a hundred percent it's an
association meeting.
Tammy (03:58):
So.
So, Karman, is it the wholeassociation that goes to these
meetings and have theseconversations?
Is it the whole associationthat goes to these meetings and
have these conversations?
Karman (04:05):
No, no, I mean.
Well, anybody in theneighborhood can go to the
meeting.
Tammy (04:09):
So it's not a committee meeting.
No, it's not a committee, it'sa full association meeting.
Karman (04:14):
A full association meeting Got it.
So it's really made me thinkjust about, like I said, wasted
excellence and how, like,where's the line between
something that's like, wow,that's a really great idea and
let's and I'm not talking about,like flower gardens here, but
(04:34):
at work, like here's a highquality thing, here's something
that adds value to theorganization, here's something
that makes our product like thebest, best, best.
And where's the line betweenthat and wasted excellence?
And maybe, so, maybe thequestion today is Allah, are you
(04:57):
a redneck, like you might beparticipating in wasted
excellence if participating inwasted excellence.
Tammy (05:06):
If I love that idea, you might be wasting excellence if
oh, okay, all right, scott, youwant to go first?
Scott (05:21):
Sure, absolutely.
I'm still struggling to getover the association thing
because I just keep thinkinglike, well, how do they make
decisions?
And are there bylaws, of course?
Right, none of that isimportant in this question, you
know.
I think in my mind, first andforemost is asking yourself is
the juice worth the squeeze?
(05:42):
So how much effort am I goingto put in to get what outcome?
And there's a little bit.
We can calculate ROI and allthat fun stuff.
But in my mind is is it worthit?
And some people would say thisis where we could probably split
hairs a little bit.
Well, but I'm a golfer.
(06:03):
Well, someone might be a golferand that may be their way to
recharge, et cetera.
And I might say that's allwasted excellence, because
that's not something I'minterested in.
I don't want to spend that time.
I'd rather spend that timedoing something else.
So I don't want to split hairsabout that kind of stuff.
But if we just talk about atwork, in my mind it's really
(06:25):
straightforward what's the levelof output you need from a
quality, effectivenessperspective and how long should
that take?
And if you go beyond either oneof t hose, it's f***ing wasted
excellence.
Tammy (06:41):
So Scott's not playing, but I I'm gonna play, okay, um,
you might be involved in wastedexcellence if you're doing
something above and beyond whatyour boss asked you to do oh.
Scott (06:53):
Oh, that's what we're playing.
Sorry, I thought we wereanswering this question we are
answering that question inanother way.
Tammy (07:00):
Okay, you might be you.
Scott (07:01):
You might be um working in wasted excellence if you have
to play the game during apodcast.
Tammy (07:08):
You might be involved in wasted excellence if you're
delivering a product above andbeyond what the client has asked
for 100%.
Scott (07:17):
You might be in wasted excellence if you're going down
to the nth level of detail thatno one cares about.
Tammy (07:29):
You might be involved in wasted excellence when you
double, triple and quadruplecheck something.
Scott (07:36):
You might be in wasted excellence if you document,
re-document and then document itagain.
Tammy (07:47):
You might be in wasted excellence when you've asked the
same question to the powersthat be More than twice Back to
back.
Scott (08:01):
You might be in wasted excellence if you, as a leader,
do not spend any time growingyour people.
Tammy (08:11):
Oh, that is a new shift in the thinking there.
Okay, you might be involved inwasted excellence when you're
doing your employees work.
You might be involved in wastedexcellence when you're doing
your employees' work.
Scott (08:22):
You might be involved in wasted excellence if you think.
I'll talk to them about thatnext time.
Tammy (08:29):
You might be involved in wasted excellence when a
decision has been made and youallow it to come back and you
have to remake the decision andremake the decision, and remake
the decision.
Scott (08:43):
I don't know if I have more.
You might be involved in wastedexcellence if you can't think
of any more wasted excellence.
Tammy (08:52):
You might be involved in wasted excellence if you are
spending more time on a projectthan the client has been willing
to pay for.
Scott (09:07):
You might be involved in wasted excellence.
If you think, oh, they might bea new client, let me call them
or email them one more time,more time.
Tammy (09:20):
And for my grand finale, let's see.
You might be involved in wastedexcellence If you never, ever
have to iterate.
Everything that you bring tothe table is already quote,
(09:45):
unquote.
Karman (09:45):
According to you, perfect.
So if our listeners identifiedwith one of those items, what
should they do?
Tammy (09:49):
To me this is a habit and oftentimes these habits come
from being caught like someonefound something that wasn't
right in your work.
Okay, so in that spot and manyof us that happened when we were
young.
Many of that happened to us inthe workplace.
(10:10):
And what I will tell you issmall incremental changes are
not a problem.
In fact, small incrementalchanges.
We oftentimes will get therefaster when we bring something
to the table, let people look atit and then let's make it
better in that particular spot.
And so, unfortunately, we havethis habit where I'm going to do
(10:31):
all the work and I'm going todo it all by myself and I'm
going to make it perfect, I'mgoing to turn it in and my boss
and my coworkers and my clientsare going to say, yes, that's
exactly what I wanted, andunderstanding that iteration
actually is faster and better.
(10:51):
And we get to the place wherewe're satisfied or good enough
for minimal, viable product,usually quicker, which helps
make the organization money,which helps you go on to the
next thing.
So in this spot it's saying,hey, this is a draft in your
head, I am turning in a draftfor someone else to look at,
(11:11):
have a conversation with andmake it better, scott, what do
you think?
Scott (11:16):
Yeah, I mean, the first thing, of course, is we think of
it as a 12 step problem.
The first thing is you have toadmit I'm in wasted excellence.
Tammy (11:24):
That's true.
Scott (11:26):
That's true, because sometimes I think I do believe
we all fall into this.
I do in areas, right, and it'swe get sucked in and we don't
think about it and and we'rejust, we're, we're running
Rodney and we're just in it, andthat's, that's okay.
It's not saying you're a badhuman, it's just saying okay,
yep, you got to recognize it.
(11:46):
And then you have to say I wantto make a shift.
And it's just that shift ofsaying is this helpful?
Is this the best use of my timeright now, or is this the best
use of our time right now?
And it could be time, it couldbe resources.
I'm thinking we're planning fora conference next year and
(12:07):
we're talking about travel, andI had the days off and extended
our travel.
When Tammy and Jen looked at it, it was no, actually, it's this
.
Well, you know, wastedexcellence would be me going and
double checking Do they havethe dates right, right when,
(12:31):
like, they are both competenthuman beings?
Tammy (12:35):
With a history of successfully knowing where to be
.
History of success.
Scott (12:38):
Okay, and so and it is this part of it's not saying, as
a leader, don't double check ordon't confirm.
It's saying when do you need to, when do you not need to.
And so for me it's is this thebest use of time, best use of
resources?
Tammy (12:55):
I think that oftentimes we in our heads say this is
about me and my reputation.
That's why I'm going throughall of this extra work, and what
I might suggest is that yourreputation will increase as you
(13:17):
are able to add value inextended ways.
So getting this one thing donewhen you could have gotten two
things done in that timeframethat's another way to look at
this right.
So perfection oftentimes is thevery thing that hurts your
reputation, versus being able toaccomplish multiple things in a
(13:44):
shorter amount of time may verywell be the thing that
increases your reputation.
So that's the other thing tothink about.
If this is really about youwhich I think it is what is the
best thing for your brand?
Is it everything that you turnin is perfect, or is it that you
(14:05):
do great work quickly?
Scott (14:10):
And what I'm reacting to is that word great, because this
is where I think people getsideways.
Okay, and it is.
Tammy (14:20):
Whose definition of great .
Scott (14:22):
Yeah, and it's this piece of is it your definition of
great?
Is it the organization's or isit the customer's definition of
great?
That, to me, is the place tosay and we're not saying don't
give more than a hundred percent110 is great, 150 is great 120,
130, 150.
(14:42):
Something's wrong.
Tammy (14:45):
And we've had an employee who told us that our standards
were not high enough, right,which I find really interesting
because, when I look at what ourclients are asking for, we
almost always deliver more thanthey asked for.
Okay in that particular space,and it's okay to deliver that
(15:05):
110.
What's not okay is when westart to climb that number
because it's keeping us fromtaking care of other clients at
that particular time period.
And so what's great work,meeting expectations or
exceeding it by a little, not bya magnitude of 10 times.
And so I think that's that.
Scott (15:28):
And so sometimes people, when we're, when I talk with
this, with people, they'll'llsay you mean you want me to do c
work.
Actually I may want you to do fwork in your mind, which still
might be a plus work in in yourbosses or client.
You know customers mind andthat can be really hard for
people to like accept becauseit's like, well, but wait,
(15:51):
you're, you're, I, you're,you're, I'm going way down here.
Well, you kind of got to getover yourself.
I think it's this tough balance, okay.
So I think of I, tammy, I thinkI shared with you trying to make
a doctor's appointment and theycalled and I was with a client.
So, if the voicemailail, Icalled the next day or a couple
(16:15):
of days later, I don't rememberand they're like oh, all of our,
all of our new patientappointments are full for July.
Let us look at August.
Okay, that's fine, I mean it'snothing pressing.
I mean it's nothing pressing.
And they're like oh, ourdoctors don't have their
(16:38):
schedule updated, so I don'tknow it doesn't.
We can't give out anyappointments in August right now
, so you'll have to call back,click.
I'm sorry.
I like that is D or F levelservice in my book and most
people would say that is so nowin their mind they may think
(17:02):
that's A service.
And so what I think is hard isit's that constant, how do I
level set it, how do I keep itin balance to understand what is
too much, what is too little?
And we could have a wholereally passionate debate about
the level of service just ingeneral at organizations,
(17:25):
doctors' offices et cetera, andsay are they meeting what we as
the consumer would say is aminimum level?
Tammy (17:37):
So the piece about that, scott, if we turn that around
and look at it again, it's whois the judge and jury for
minimum expectations?
Right, and if the judge andjury is your boss, there it is.
If your judge and jury is acustomer, there it is it
oftentimes is not you, and Ithink that's the part where
(18:00):
people struggle is they want toset the minimum expectation when
, in fact, the judge and jury onminimum expectation is almost
always external of us.
And so, in that spot, who isthe judge and jury and what are
they saying that they want?
Or what does our data tell usthat they want?
(18:22):
Or our experience tell us whatthey want?
And then, if it's a customer,are they paying for that?
Okay, because sometimescustomers will ask for something
that they're not paying for.
Okay, and that's another linethat you have to consider in
this spot.
But in the end, who's the judgeand jury?
And are you going so far overthat that you could have taken
(18:44):
that time, that resource,whatever that is, and put it
towards another client, anotherboss, another peer, whatever
that is, and been able to moveforward and get the next thing
done?
And in the end, I do thinkthat's the analysis.
Why are you doing it?
What is the minimum expectation?
(19:05):
Who is setting that minimumexpectation and is there a way
to iterate it that we canactually get there faster?
hello scott and tammy.
Good morning Karman.
Yo Karman I.
I feel now like I'm in a ricolaad hold that uh for a while
every time I see the ricolacommercial I think Sound of
(00:24):
Music.
Tammy (00:26):
Yeah, I think it's intended Mountain singing.
Karman (00:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Scott (00:30):
Yeah.
Karman (00:32):
Because the hills are alive.
So, scott, what is your?
This is not our question today.
What is your favorite Sound ofMusic song?
Tammy (00:39):
Oh, oh, probably the Doe of Deer, it's not that one.
Scott (00:46):
That's the end.
It's the doe deer one is that.
Karman (00:51):
Oh, is that the end?
I don't know.
Scott (00:53):
I only say that one because it reminds reminds me of
a Simpsons episode where Homercrashes through a a bush and
hits a statue of a deer and hesays you know, as Homer always
does, and then Lisa in the backgoes a statue of a deer.
And he says you know, as homeralways does.
And then lisa in the back goesa deer, a female deer I knew it
couldn't be.
Tammy (01:11):
It's funny that it's a homer simpson.
We're talking about the soundof music, but somehow it moves
to homer simpson.
That tells you everything youneed to know about sound of
music and homer simpson.
Scott (01:22):
It's like they're not even in the same stratosphere.
Tammy (01:25):
I'm pretty sure that there's something in there that
we could make into a televisionshow.
Scott (01:31):
Absolutely.
You know what.
What we could do is?
We could start to do like abetting tree on the Simpsons
predictions.
Tammy (01:44):
The Simpsons predictions.
The Simpsons predictions.
Scott (01:46):
I'm sorry, I'm not a.
Tammy (01:47):
Simpson fan.
What is that so?
Scott (01:49):
just just.
This will not be great for thepodcast, but it is great.
It is fascinating If you lookup Simpsons predictions that
have come true.
It's a little scary.
Tammy (02:04):
So the writers at the Simpson have have um they,
they're futurists yes, okay, ordepending on.
Depending on, you know what youbelieve, it's just interesting
well, now you have a bunch ofpeople curious and my guess is
they'll be out looking at that.
All right, Karman, we're up toyou, yeah.
Karman (02:26):
So I live in a really great neighborhood.
For lots of reasons I love myneighborhood and one of them is
our neighborhood association.
We have a really activeneighborhood association with
people who make stuff happen,and it's really lovely.
(02:47):
And there are a couple ofpeople in our neighborhood
association who like to makeeverything into brain surgery,
like let's make it reallycomplicated.
Let, few years ago, the womanwho was in charge of getting
(03:08):
volunteers for our littlegardens on the boulevard, little
flower gardens, for like 10garden plots I think she had
like 60 people recruited Likeyay her.
People recruited like yay her.
(03:28):
But there was the person whowas gonna till it up and there
was the person who was gonnabring a snack to the person who
was tilling it up and that andI'm not even exaggerating about
that, um.
So all of which has made methink a little bit when I'm at a
neighborhood associationmeeting, like how much of this
is wasted excellence.
Scott (03:48):
Like Tami and Scott, a hundred percent it's an
association meeting.
Tammy (03:58):
So.
So, Karman, is it the wholeassociation that goes to these
meetings and have theseconversations?
Is it the whole associationthat goes to these meetings and
have these conversations?
Karman (04:05):
No, no, I mean.
Well, anybody in theneighborhood can go to the
meeting.
Tammy (04:09):
So it's not a committee meeting.
No, it's not a committee, it'sa full association meeting.
Karman (04:14):
A full association meeting Got it.
So it's really made me thinkjust about, like I said, wasted
excellence and how, like,where's the line between
something that's like, wow,that's a really great idea and
let's and I'm not talking about,like flower gardens here, but
(04:34):
at work, like here's a highquality thing, here's something
that adds value to theorganization, here's something
that makes our product like thebest, best, best.
And where's the line betweenthat and wasted excellence?
And maybe, so, maybe thequestion today is Allah, are you
(04:57):
a redneck, like you might beparticipating in wasted
excellence if participating inwasted excellence.
Tammy (05:06):
If I love that idea, you might be wasting excellence if
oh, okay, all right, scott, youwant to go first?
Scott (05:21):
Sure, absolutely.
I'm still struggling to getover the association thing
because I just keep thinkinglike, well, how do they make
decisions?
And are there bylaws, of course?
Right, none of that isimportant in this question, you
know.
I think in my mind, first andforemost is asking yourself is
the juice worth the squeeze?
(05:42):
So how much effort am I goingto put in to get what outcome?
And there's a little bit.
We can calculate ROI and allthat fun stuff.
But in my mind is is it worthit?
And some people would say thisis where we could probably split
hairs a little bit.
Well, but I'm a golfer.
(06:03):
Well, someone might be a golferand that may be their way to
recharge, et cetera.
And I might say that's allwasted excellence, because
that's not something I'minterested in.
I don't want to spend that time.
I'd rather spend that timedoing something else.
So I don't want to split hairsabout that kind of stuff.
But if we just talk about atwork, in my mind it's really
(06:25):
straightforward what's the levelof output you need from a
quality, effectivenessperspective and how long should
that take?
And if you go beyond either oneof t hose, it's f***ing wasted
excellence.
Tammy (06:41):
So Scott's not playing, but I I'm gonna play, okay, um,
you might be involved in wastedexcellence if you're doing
something above and beyond whatyour boss asked you to do oh.
Scott (06:53):
Oh, that's what we're playing.
Sorry, I thought we wereanswering this question we are
answering that question inanother way.
Tammy (07:00):
Okay, you might be you.
Scott (07:01):
You might be um working in wasted excellence if you have
to play the game during apodcast.
Tammy (07:08):
You might be involved in wasted excellence if you're
delivering a product above andbeyond what the client has asked
for 100%.
Scott (07:17):
You might be in wasted excellence if you're going down
to the nth level of detail thatno one cares about.
Tammy (07:29):
You might be involved in wasted excellence when you
double, triple and quadruplecheck something.
Scott (07:36):
You might be in wasted excellence if you document,
re-document and then document itagain.
Tammy (07:47):
You might be in wasted excellence when you've asked the
same question to the powersthat be More than twice Back to
back.
Scott (08:01):
You might be in wasted excellence if you, as a leader,
do not spend any time growingyour people.
Tammy (08:11):
Oh, that is a new shift in the thinking there.
Okay, you might be involved inwasted excellence when you're
doing your employees work.
You might be involved in wastedexcellence when you're doing
your employees' work.
Scott (08:22):
You might be involved in wasted excellence if you think.
I'll talk to them about thatnext time.
Tammy (08:29):
You might be involved in wasted excellence when a
decision has been made and youallow it to come back and you
have to remake the decision andremake the decision, and remake
the decision.
Scott (08:43):
I don't know if I have more.
You might be involved in wastedexcellence if you can't think
of any more wasted excellence.
Tammy (08:52):
You might be involved in wasted excellence if you are
spending more time on a projectthan the client has been willing
to pay for.
Scott (09:07):
You might be involved in wasted excellence.
If you think, oh, they might bea new client, let me call them
or email them one more time,more time.
Tammy (09:20):
And for my grand finale, let's see.
You might be involved in wastedexcellence If you never, ever
have to iterate.
Everything that you bring tothe table is already quote,
(09:45):
unquote.
Karman (09:45):
According to you, perfect.
So if our listeners identifiedwith one of those items, what
should they do?
Tammy (09:49):
To me this is a habit and oftentimes these habits come
from being caught like someonefound something that wasn't
right in your work.
Okay, so in that spot and manyof us that happened when we were
young.
Many of that happened to us inthe workplace.
(10:10):
And what I will tell you issmall incremental changes are
not a problem.
In fact, small incrementalchanges.
We oftentimes will get therefaster when we bring something
to the table, let people look atit and then let's make it
better in that particular spot.
And so, unfortunately, we havethis habit where I'm going to do
(10:31):
all the work and I'm going todo it all by myself and I'm
going to make it perfect, I'mgoing to turn it in and my boss
and my coworkers and my clientsare going to say, yes, that's
exactly what I wanted, andunderstanding that iteration
actually is faster and better.
(10:51):
And we get to the place wherewe're satisfied or good enough
for minimal, viable product,usually quicker, which helps
make the organization money,which helps you go on to the
next thing.
So in this spot it's saying,hey, this is a draft in your
head, I am turning in a draftfor someone else to look at,
(11:11):
have a conversation with andmake it better, scott, what do
you think?
Scott (11:16):
Yeah, I mean, the first thing, of course, is we think of
it as a 12 step problem.
The first thing is you have toadmit I'm in wasted excellence.
Tammy (11:24):
That's true.
Scott (11:26):
That's true, because sometimes I think I do believe
we all fall into this.
I do in areas, right, and it'swe get sucked in and we don't
think about it and and we'rejust, we're, we're running
Rodney and we're just in it, andthat's, that's okay.
It's not saying you're a badhuman, it's just saying okay,
yep, you got to recognize it.
(11:46):
And then you have to say I wantto make a shift.
And it's just that shift ofsaying is this helpful?
Is this the best use of my timeright now, or is this the best
use of our time right now?
And it could be time, it couldbe resources.
I'm thinking we're planning fora conference next year and
(12:07):
we're talking about travel, andI had the days off and extended
our travel.
When Tammy and Jen looked at it, it was no, actually, it's this
.
Well, you know, wastedexcellence would be me going and
double checking Do they havethe dates right, right when,
(12:31):
like, they are both competenthuman beings?
Tammy (12:35):
With a history of successfully knowing where to be
.
History of success.
Scott (12:38):
Okay, and so and it is this part of it's not saying, as
a leader, don't double check ordon't confirm.
It's saying when do you need to, when do you not need to.
And so for me it's is this thebest use of time, best use of
resources?
Tammy (12:55):
I think that oftentimes we in our heads say this is
about me and my reputation.
That's why I'm going throughall of this extra work, and what
I might suggest is that yourreputation will increase as you
(13:17):
are able to add value inextended ways.
So getting this one thing donewhen you could have gotten two
things done in that timeframethat's another way to look at
this right.
So perfection oftentimes is thevery thing that hurts your
reputation, versus being able toaccomplish multiple things in a
(13:44):
shorter amount of time may verywell be the thing that
increases your reputation.
So that's the other thing tothink about.
If this is really about youwhich I think it is what is the
best thing for your brand?
Is it everything that you turnin is perfect, or is it that you
(14:05):
do great work quickly?
Scott (14:10):
And what I'm reacting to is that word great, because this
is where I think people getsideways.
Okay, and it is.
Tammy (14:20):
Whose definition of great .
Scott (14:22):
Yeah, and it's this piece of is it your definition of
great?
Is it the organization's or isit the customer's definition of
great?
That, to me, is the place tosay and we're not saying don't
give more than a hundred percent110 is great, 150 is great 120,
130, 150.
(14:42):
Something's wrong.
Tammy (14:45):
And we've had an employee who told us that our standards
were not high enough, right,which I find really interesting
because, when I look at what ourclients are asking for, we
almost always deliver more thanthey asked for.
Okay in that particular space,and it's okay to deliver that
(15:05):
110.
What's not okay is when westart to climb that number
because it's keeping us fromtaking care of other clients at
that particular time period.
And so what's great work,meeting expectations or
exceeding it by a little, not bya magnitude of 10 times.
And so I think that's that.
Scott (15:28):
And so sometimes people, when we're, when I talk with
this, with people, they'll'llsay you mean you want me to do c
work.
Actually I may want you to do fwork in your mind, which still
might be a plus work in in yourbosses or client.
You know customers mind andthat can be really hard for
people to like accept becauseit's like, well, but wait,
(15:51):
you're, you're, I, you're,you're, I'm going way down here.
Well, you kind of got to getover yourself.
I think it's this tough balance, okay.
So I think of I, tammy, I thinkI shared with you trying to make
a doctor's appointment and theycalled and I was with a client.
So, if the voicemailail, Icalled the next day or a couple
(16:15):
of days later, I don't rememberand they're like oh, all of our,
all of our new patientappointments are full for July.
Let us look at August.
Okay, that's fine, I mean it'snothing pressing.
I mean it's nothing pressing.
And they're like oh, ourdoctors don't have their
(16:38):
schedule updated, so I don'tknow it doesn't.
We can't give out anyappointments in August right now
, so you'll have to call back,click.
I'm sorry.
I like that is D or F levelservice in my book and most
people would say that is so nowin their mind they may think
(17:02):
that's A service.
And so what I think is hard isit's that constant, how do I
level set it, how do I keep itin balance to understand what is
too much, what is too little?
And we could have a wholereally passionate debate about
the level of service just ingeneral at organizations,
(17:25):
doctors' offices et cetera, andsay are they meeting what we as
the consumer would say is aminimum level?
Tammy (17:37):
So the piece about that, scott, if we turn that around
and look at it again, it's whois the judge and jury for
minimum expectations?
Right, and if the judge andjury is your boss, there it is.
If your judge and jury is acustomer, there it is it
oftentimes is not you, and Ithink that's the part where
(18:00):
people struggle is they want toset the minimum expectation when
, in fact, the judge and jury onminimum expectation is almost
always external of us.
And so, in that spot, who isthe judge and jury and what are
they saying that they want?
Or what does our data tell usthat they want?
(18:22):
Or our experience tell us whatthey want?
And then, if it's a customer,are they paying for that?
Okay, because sometimescustomers will ask for something
that they're not paying for.
Okay, and that's another linethat you have to consider in
this spot.
But in the end, who's the judgeand jury?
And are you going so far overthat that you could have taken
(18:44):
that time, that resource,whatever that is, and put it
towards another client, anotherboss, another peer, whatever
that is, and been able to moveforward and get the next thing
done?
And in the end, I do thinkthat's the analysis.
Why are you doing it?
What is the minimum expectation?
(19:05):
Who is setting that minimumexpectation and is there a way
to iterate it that we canactually get there faster?
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