252. The Delegation Dial and Leadership Dynamics with Mick Spiers

Ever notice how the leadership qualities you aspire to can vanish under pressure? That calm, thoughtful presence replaced by reactivity and micromanagement when deadlines loom? You're not alone.

Drawing on wisdom from executive coach and former Microsoft leader Sabina Nawaz, this episode unpacks a profound truth: pressure doesn't create your leadership tendencies—it reveals them. When stakes rise, we default to ingrained habits rather than our aspirational values. As Sabina brilliantly puts it, "Power doesn't corrupt, pressure does."

The conversation explores four game-changing leadership concepts you can implement immediately. First is the Delegation Dial—a visual metaphor for adjusting your leadership approach based on the person and situation rather than defaulting to one style. Next, we confront the uncomfortable reality that power naturally isolates you from truth as people filter feedback and hesitate to challenge your thinking. This isolation explains why organizations suffer most when passionate people go quiet.

Perhaps most transformative is the deceptively simple Multiple Meanings Exercise. Before reacting to someone's behavior, pause and consider at least three possible interpretations. This creates space between stimulus and response—space where actual leadership happens. It transforms frustration into curiosity and judgment into empathy.

What leadership habits are you practicing daily that will emerge when everything's on fire? Who's telling you the truth when it matters most? How might your assumptions be limiting your effectiveness? This episode will challenge you to answer these questions honestly and provide practical ways to become the leader you aspire to be, especially when it's hardest.

Subscribe to The Leadership Project and join us next time as we explore creating cultures of creativity and inclusive storytelling with Jamie Wolfe and Dr. Chris Bell. What leadership challenge are you facing where these concepts could make a difference?

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Episode Transcript

Mick Spiers (00:01):
What happens to your leadership when the
pressure is on, when deadlinesloom and expectations rise and
you feel the weight of the worldon your shoulders, how do you
show up and, more importantly,how do you stay true to the
leader you want to be, not justthe one you default to under
stress?
In today's conversation, it'sgoing to be a solo cast where I

(00:23):
unpack what I took away from theamazing conversation with
Sabina Nawaz, a celebratedexecutive coach and former
Microsoft leader whose work hastouched thousands of people
around the globe.
Welcome back to the LeadershipProject.
I'm your host, mick Spears, andtoday's episode 252 is going to
be a solo cast where I reflecton the recent and incredibly

(00:47):
insightful conversation withSabina Nawaz.
We spoke in this conversationabout how pressure, not power,
can push leaders into poorhabits, the brilliance of what
she calls the delegation dialand the confronting truth that
power isolates you from thetruth and, finally, a really

(01:07):
deceptively simple but verytransformational exercise called
the multiple meanings exercise.
That's what we'll be unpackingtoday, so let's get into it.
The first point is that pressurereveals, not creates.
Sabina shared a deeply personalstory how, after returning from
parental leave into ahigh-pressure executive role,

(01:29):
she found herself becoming amicromanager, short-tempered and
reactive, not because shestopped caring, not because she
didn't have leadership skill,but because the pressure was
relentless and she didn'trealise the toll it was taking
on her behavior.
This hit home for me becausewe've all been there.
Under pressure, the very valueswe hold dear can start to slip,

(01:54):
not intentionally but subtly.
We cut corners, we raise ourvoices, we stop listening and we
justify it all with just thisonce or they, they'll understand
, or this is what the situationcalls for.
But here's the thing yourleadership is not defined by how
you perform.
When things are easy, it'srevealed when things are hard.

(02:18):
Power doesn't corrupt, pressuredoes.
That's one of the most powerfullines from Sabina's interview,
and it flipped the script on afamiliar quote we've all heard
before.
So my question to you is thiswhat do you fall back on when
you're under pressure, and arethose habits helping or hurting

(02:39):
your leadership?
I'm going to say this is whenthe moments really count, where
you need to be even moreintentional with how you're
showing up.
You need to be more calm, youneed to be more deliberate, you
need to do more listening.
Some of the greatest leadersI've ever worked with were the
ones that were able to remaincalm under pressure, to be able

(03:01):
to listen deeply to all of theviewpoints in the room about
what needs to happen here, theone that made everyone feel that
they were part of it but wasstill able to summarize at the
end of the conversation and giveclear direction about what
we're going to do next.
It wasn't those that just tookover and started being directive

(03:22):
everywhere.
It was the calm ones that tookeverything in, was able to cut
through the chaff and work outwhat needed to happen.
So what is your leadership like?
Under pressure, can you turn upthe dial in terms of being more
intentional, do more listeningand then remaining calm and

(03:45):
giving the team a cleardirection as to what to do next.
The next segment was about thisconcept called the delegation
dial, and I love this.
It's a brilliant concept.
The delegation dial.
It's a visual metaphor.
Imagine a dial you can turn.
All the way to the left is fullcontrol and micromanagement.
All the way to the right isfull control and micromanagement
.
All the way to the right isfull autonomy and hands-off

(04:08):
leadership.
The point isn't to set andforget.
The point is to adjust the dialbased on the situation, the
person and the context.
This is what adaptive andsituational leadership is all
about.
Adaptive leadership is adaptingto the person.
Depending on the person that'ssitting in front of you, they

(04:29):
may have different needs as tohow much direction they need.
It's very different to lead anintern compared to a 30-year
veteran in your industry.
So you need to adapt to theperson that's sitting in front
of you.
And then situational leadershipis adapting to what the
situation is calling for.
Are you in a crisis mode?
Is it steady state operation?

(04:51):
Are you going into newterritory that no one's ever
done before?
So the true skill is knowingwhen to turn the dial and having
the self-awareness and trust todo it intentionally.
So ask yourself where is yourdelegation dial set right now
and is it where it should be?
Great leaders are the ones thatknow when to step in and step

(05:13):
up and when to step back andempower and trust and let their
team get on with it.
One of the greatest things thatyou can do is get out of your
team's road if they know whatthey need to do and they don't
need you right now and knowingwhen to step in when they do
need you, and having that rightrelationship with your team that

(05:36):
they know when to escalate toyou, when to bring you in.
These are the things that canmake you a truly great leader.
The next topic from Sabina wasthis comment the power isolates
you from the truth.
Now think about that for amoment.
When you step into a positionof leadership, the dynamics

(05:56):
change, often in ways you don'teven notice.
At first, people begin tofilter their words, they
sugarcoat feedback, theyhesitate to challenge you, not
because they don't care, butbecause you now hold positional
power.
Whether you like it or not,this is how it'll be perceived,

(06:17):
and over time, if you're notintentional, a dangerous gap
forms between how you thinkthings are going and what your
people are actually experiencing.
It reminds me of Tim McClure'sfamous quote the greatest fear
of any organization is whentheir most passionate people
become quiet.

(06:37):
Now let's unpack that for awhile.
It's not that they've gotnothing to say, it's that the
power dynamic has changed andthey feel like it's not worth
speaking up.
So why do they go quiet?
Is it because they feel like noone's listening?
Because they've tried to speakup before and they've been
ignored, dismissed or punished?

(06:59):
Or because the truth became toocostly to share?
This really comes to the heartof psychological safety and
about fear, and there is fear inorganization.
There's no such thing asfearless.
But when we have psychologicalsafety, it's because people
perceive the benefit of speakingup being greater than the fear

(07:21):
of doing so.
And if you have achieved that,people will still find their
voice and you won't have thisissue that Tim is talking about,
where people go quiet.
But this is the risk ofleadership without awareness.
When people stop telling youthe truth, it's not because
everything is fine.
It's because they no longerfeel safe.
And here's the scary part mostleaders don't even realize it's

(07:43):
happening.
So I want to challenge youtoday who tells you the truth?
Who's willing to challenge yourthinking or push back with care
and courage?
And are you creating the kindof environment where the truth
can surface despite any fear?
Because real leadership isn'tabout looking like you've got it

(08:03):
all together.
It's about being open enough tohear what's really going on,
even when it's hard.
A true test of this is whensomeone does speak up.
How are you going to react?
And if you come down on themlike a ton of bricks, I can
guarantee you they're not goingto speak up again next time.
So when someone comes to youwith an uncomfortable truth.

(08:25):
Pause, take a few deep breathsand get curious.
Ask them powerful questions,thank them for speaking up, say
thank you so much for telling methis.
Tell me more.
That will be what creates theenvironment where people are
willing to tell you the truth.
And the final one from theconversation with Sabina this

(08:48):
was a really amazing concept.
It's very simple but also verypowerful the multiple meanings
exercise.
The premise is simple Before youreact to someone's behavior,
pause and ask yourself what elsecould this mean?
If someone's curt in a meeting,it doesn't necessarily mean

(09:13):
they're disrespecting you.
Maybe they're stressed, maybethey're distracted, maybe they
just got some bad news.
By exploring at least threepossible meanings, you create
space between stimulus andresponse and in that space you
get to choose your response.
You get to lead, not just react.
I've started using this myselfand I'll tell you it changes the
tone of your conversations.

(09:33):
It turns frustration intocuriosity.
It makes you a bettercommunicator and makes you a
more empathetic leader.
So if you find yourself makingassumptions about someone else's
behavior, you start havingquestions in your head going oh,
that person only did thatbecause, or why did that person
do that?

(09:53):
And start going into almost anaccusation mode.
Stop and pause and think.
Think of at least threedifferent meanings as to what
the person is doing and whythey're behaving in the way that
they're doing.
And here's the funny thingUsually the simplest and most
innocent explanation is usuallythe right one.

(10:14):
It doesn't mean that there'snot an issue there, but take the
time, before you react, tothink about what are three
possible meanings for whythey're doing what they're doing
, why they're saying whatthey're saying and the way that
they're behaving.
So think what else could thismean?

(10:34):
Then ask again, and ask againand make at least three meanings
before you then get curious andgo and ask them.
So hey, notice that you weren'tquite yourself in the meeting
today.
What's going on, are you okay?
Get curious, notice that youweren't quite yourself in the
meeting today.
What's going on, or are youokay?
Get curious, and then you cango and explore which of those

(10:55):
meanings that you've come upwith, or even a fourth meaning
that you didn't think of.
Get curious first, don't react.
So a final reaction, likeleadership, is hard.
That's why you're listening tothis podcast.
It is hard, especially underpressure.
But if there's one thing I tookfrom Sabina's wisdom, it's this
we have more power than wethink, not over others, but over
ourselves, over our tone, ourpresence and how we choose to

(11:18):
respond.
Pressure will come.
Power dynamics will alwaysexist, but we get to decide the
kind of leader we become.
So I'll leave you with thiswhen are you feeling pressure
right now?
What's your delegation dial setto?

(11:40):
Who's telling you the truth andwhat assumptions are you making
that need to be challenged?
Some of the keys to greatleadership are intentionality
about how you show up, andcuriosity, to make sure you
always remain curious aboutwhat's going on around you and
how the people are in your teamand in your business.
So that's it for today'sepisode.
In the next episode, I'm goingto be joined by the amazing

(12:02):
Jamie Wolfe and Dr Chris Belland we're going to be exploring
about how to create a culture ofcreativity and how you can
create inclusiveness in yourstorytelling.
Until then, remember to stayfocused, stay intentional and
stay curious.

(12:25):
Thank you for listening to theLeadership Project at
mickspearscom.
A huge call out to Faris Sadekfor his video editing of all of
our video content, and to all ofthe team at TLP Joanne Goes On,
gerald Calabo and my amazingwife Say Spears.
I could not do this showwithout you.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe Leadership Project YouTube

(12:46):
channel, where we bring youinteresting videos each and
every week, and you can followus on social, particularly on
LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
Now, in the meantime, please dotake care, look out for each
other and join us on thisjourney, as we learn together
and lead together.