July 7, 2025 • 54 mins
Are you living or just existing? This powerful question anchors our conversation with Bill Zujewski, former tech executive and founder of Good Life. What began as a simple year-end spreadsheet became a transformative tool for intentional living. Bill introduces the HELP GROW framework: Health, Environment, Leisure, Purpose, Growth, Relationships, Occupation, and Wealth as a personal scorecard that helps us evaluate how aligned we are with what truly matters.
In a world where we often race through life on autopilot, this framework offers a mirror rather than a rigid formula, helping us recognize both where we're thriving and where we're off track. The conversation also challenges conventional success metrics. Drawing from an 80-year Harvard study, Bill emphasizes that strong relationships, not wealth or geography, are the greatest predictors of health, happiness, and longevity, sometimes equating to an extra decade of healthy life.
As host Mick Spiers walks through his own self-assessment, we see the power of small shifts in creating meaningful change. Whether you're a leader hoping to foster well-being in your team or someone seeking more purpose in your personal life, this episode delivers both inspiration and practical steps. Start by reflecting on your own life score. You might just find the clarity and motivation to take that next step toward the life you truly want.
🌐 Connect with Bill:
• Website: https://www.goodliife.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/billzujewski/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zujewskibill/
📚 You can purchase Bill's book on Amazon:
• What’s Your Life Score: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DT6DXXMC/
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📝 Don’t forget to share your thoughts on the episode in the comments below.
🔔 Join us in our mission at The Leadership Project and learn more about our organisation here: https://linktr.ee/mickspiers
📕 You can purchase a copy of the Mick Spiers bestselling book "You're a Leader, Now What?" as an eBook or paperback at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09ZBKK8XV
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mick Spiers (00:01):
Let me ask you this, are you living or just
existing? If you're like mostpeople, especially leaders, your
days are full, full of meetings,decisions, responsibilities and
goals. But how often do you stopand ask, is this actually the
life I want to be living intoday's episode of The
Leadership Project. We're joinedby Bill Zujewski, former tech
(00:25):
exec and founder of good lifeand the author of watch your
life. Score. What started as asimple spreadsheet scoring
himself at the end of each yearturned into a personal
transformation and now apowerful tool and framework to
help others step out ofautopilot and into an
(00:45):
intentional life. Together, weexplore the eight dimensions of
life that bill believes we allshould measure, not to judge
ourselves, but to reflect, totake stock and to choose what
matters most. This is not yourtypical leadership conversation,
it's personal, it's vulnerable,and it might just change the way
(01:06):
you think about success. So getready to look in the mirror and
maybe, just maybe, to reclaimthe steering wheel of your own
life.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto The Leadership Project. We've
got a special treat for youtoday. We're joined by Bill
Zujewski. Bill is the founderand CEO of an organization
called good life, and he's theauthor of a book called What's
(01:30):
your life score, and it'saccompanied with an app that can
help you measure your life andlook for where you might
improve. So it's going to be avery practical discussion. We're
going to look in the mirrortoday. We're going to look at
your life. Going to think aboutwhere you're at and take some
time to reflect and where youmight focus so you can go on a
(01:53):
pursuit of happiness. If you'renot happy as a leader, you're
not going to be creating theenvironment that is great for
the rest of your team. So it isimportant for us to stop and
reflect and look at ourselves inthe mirror and take action
around our life. So this isgoing to be a deep introspection
today, and I'm really lookingforward to hearing from Bill and
(02:15):
going on this journey with you.
I'm going to be listening toBill. I'll be doing the actions
myself, the things that we comeout of today's discussion I'll
be personally doing as well. Sowithout any further ado, I want
to give bill the stage here.
Bill tell us a little bit moreabout what inspired you to write
this book and develop this appand to help people to measure
(02:38):
their life and take action.
Bill Zujewski (02:41):
Yeah, no. Thanks for having me, Mick, I'd love to
tell the story. You know, Ispent most of my life actually
in corporate marketing, managingmarketing departments for
software companies, but alwayshad an inkling to do my own
thing, and had this concept inthe back of my mind that this
(03:01):
might be an interesting conceptto actually help people and
build a company around. So itgoes way back, 20 years ago, the
engineer and me, at the end ofeach year would do a little
Google spreadsheet and justassess, you know, before New
Year's resolutions, how I didlast year in my my health and
(03:22):
fitness. How do I do my netassets, my finances, my job, and
I'd score myself zero to 10, andit was a very useful exercise
for me. I started using it withmy kids, and then I'm like, I
think there's something here. Ithink there's something around a
personal scorecard, just like acompany has a dashboard. And so
(03:44):
I, about a year ago, launched amobile app to do it and then to
compliment it. I thought itwould be great to help me kind
of get my word out and brand outthere to write this book about
the concept of there's twoscores in there, a Zen score and
a life score. And it's, it'spretty simple. And the my
(04:05):
tagline for the company is, getgood at life. And it's, you
know, we know life is hard, it'scomplex. A lot of people don't
know what to do, and I,hopefully, I've given them here,
you know, almost like a playbookto design a life.
Mick Spiers (04:21):
Yeah, really good, Bill. I hope that we're all out
there trying to get good atlife. However, sometimes we do
find ourselves in almost like anautopilot mode, where we're just
we're not a human being anymore,where we're just a human going
and wandering and meandering. Sowhy do you think it's important
(04:42):
for people to intentionally stopand take a closer look?
Bill Zujewski (04:47):
Yeah, it's interesting. And then, you know,
I've been studying this topicsince my, you know, early days
of my career, I went and when Isay topic, I'm just happiness,
fulfillment, and those concepts.
Because there's, it's such astruggle to get there. And what
I realized was that it makes youpause if you start self
(05:09):
reflecting on your life, likemost of our lives are reactive.
We're just like, Okay, I get,got to get up, go to work, get
the paycheck. But I'm a hugebeliever. I learned these
concepts early on that you cankind of manifest things. If you
have a vision of where you wantto go and what you want to do,
the things you do, day to day,week to week, month to month,
(05:31):
start to kind of help you kindof create that vision you have
for yourself. So I am a hugebeliever that you can kind of
pause, look at what you're doingin these eight areas, which
we'll get to, and design a life,and then make decisions that
create the life that you reallywant to have in 10 years, 20
(05:52):
years, 30 years.
Mick Spiers (05:55):
So the key word that's ringing my head when I
hear this is the wordintentionality, is to actually
take control of your life andmake intentional decisions
instead of the the autopilot,like I was saying. The curious
thing for me, Bill, goingthrough the book, it sounds like
you had been doing this for awhile in like you said in a
spreadsheet before, but when youwrote this book and start doing
(06:18):
yourself, what did you learnabout yourself, Bill?
Bill Zujewski (06:21):
Yeah, well, I definitely, I definitely learned
that I'm an engineer, becauseeverything I was doing I was
organizing around, likeframeworks and, you know, mind
maps and things like that. Andthen I started to think about
(06:42):
what I would do different if Ihad to give advice to people,
and I think, I think I wouldhave spent more time, probably
my some of the friendships earlyon. So that was, that was
actually enlightening. And thenthe other epiphany I'm starting
to have is starting a company isreally hard, and I'm like
(07:04):
questioning, can I actuallymaintain this notion of a
balanced life and all the thingsI am advocating for, and still,
you know, put in the work that'srequired to start a company from
scratch, right? So that'sanother thing I'm starting to
think about.
Mick Spiers (07:21):
Yeah, really good.
I'm hearing a few things there,Bill, one is the realization of
being an engineer, and engineerslike to make sense of the world
so I can, I can see that in you,also a recognition of what you
good at, and maybe things thatmaybe I'm not as good at, and
that's that's fine as well. Andthen taking a deeper look at
yourself that when you, andwe're going to go into some of
(07:43):
the content soon, and startingto realize that personal
relationships are a huge part ofhaving a good life, and then
actually, really go, hang on asecond. How many personal
relationships do I have? And amI investing, intentionally,
investing in thoserelationships? So what I'm
(08:03):
trying to reflect back to you,Bill, is I'm glad that you are
when you're doing the work,you're also looking in the
mirror yourself and going, Hey,hang on a second. Do I do that?
Is that what I'm hearing yeah?
Bill Zujewski (08:15):
Right. No, for sure. The other thing that I
struggle with, and I know thebuzzword is imposter syndrome,
but what I mean by that is like,I'm not Bill Gates or some you
know, famous person. Who am I totell others or suggest what a
good life actually is? So I, atfirst, I had some doubts, and
(08:39):
maybe, not the confidence to dothis. But then I started
thinking about, well, wait asecond, you know, I've got four
kids now who love me, who are intheir 20s. Have I've launched
them into the world, andthey're, they're so far so good.
I have a couple homes. I have anamazing partner and wife, and
(09:01):
I'm very happy. So maybe I dohave some formula or wisdom here
to share. So that was anotherthing that that actually turned
out to be fine, but at first itwas a little bit of a struggle.
Mick Spiers (09:14):
Yeah, there's, there's a couple of elements
there as well, Bill, yeah, soyou're not Bill Gates, but
that's completely fine. You're,Bill zajuski And you're the best
Bill sajewski, you can be thebest one out there, right? But
also, there's a little bit I'mpicking up there about the
comparison syndrome is you don'thave to compare yourself to Bill
Gates. You don't have to compareyourself to anyone. You look at
(09:34):
yourself and go, compareyourself to you, compare
yourself to the you that youwould be proud to be. And can I
share something from my lifethat would be meaningful to
others? And that's what I seethat you've done here. So what
did what did you learn abouthappiness? You did a lot of
research in this book. What didyou learn about, I'm going to
say, some of the misconceptionsabout what makes us happy?
Bill Zujewski (09:57):
Yeah, no, obviously. And this differs
around the world and but in theUnited States, there's no doubt
of that. You know, wealth is theonly real metric and indicator
that people think of when theythink of is this person
successful or not? Amazingly, Ihad dinner a couple years ago
(10:19):
with a head of people fromIreland, and she was new to the
United States, and she's like,she's shocked at how centric we
are around that wealth andcareer and that in Ireland, a
better indicator is how great ofa father and family man, what
you've done to raise your kidsand family. That's a better
measure of success. But onething I've learned about
(10:42):
happiness, though, and it'sbacked by science. In fact,
there's a book, coincidentallycalled good life, by two Harvard
professors who studied 3000families over 80 years, looking
at what attributes of a person'slife led to the most happiness,
fulfillment and longevity andhow long they lived, and it
wasn't even close, Mick, it wasrelationships in the end, in the
(11:06):
last 1020, 30 years, it was likeWho was your partner, who was
the family around you, who werethe friends around you, and that
easily mapped to maybe 10 moreyears of living healthy than
wealth and where you lived anddiet. So to me, in fact, I have
(11:27):
the two eyes in good life. Whenthis company makes it to the
next level, I'm going to makenew logo where those two eyes
are actually two people, becauseI think relationships is
probably the most importantindicator and driver of
happiness.
Mick Spiers (11:42):
You're really good, Bill. So what you're picking up
here is around societalexpectations, and how do we
measure success? Do we measuresuccess by the way society
measures success? Or are wemeasuring success by what really
makes us happy? And I doencourage people listening to
the show. If you research someof these happiness studies,
(12:04):
whether you know Harvard, YaleMartin Seligman, does incredible
work in this space, if youresearch it, you'll be surprised
that the indicator that we lookat someone and go, Oh, wow, look
at them. They're so successful.
That's not the indicators thatend up in these studies to show
that what really driveshappiness, and in fact, it can
be counterintuitive. So let's,let's pick the wealth one. And
(12:27):
you and I were talking aboutthis before we started the show
the wealth one. There's neverenough. There's never enough.
Like if beyond getting to thepoint where you can cover your
basic needs, you can pay yourbills and put food on the table
and shelter over your head,wealth actually becomes
addictive, and you're alwaysstriving for more, and you're
(12:47):
never happy with what you'vegot, and it drives comparison
syndrome, and comparison is thethief of joy. So you start
going, well, you know, I'mearning this much, but the
person next to me is earning 10kmore than me. Now, if you had to
pull the person aside and say,Oh, wow, you know you're earning
$100,000 are you happy withthat? They might have said yes,
until I found out the personnext to them is getting 110,000
(13:09):
all of a sudden they're unhappy.
So it's not money that's makingus happy. It's not money. Isn't
right?
Bill Zujewski (13:17):
No, no, no, there's and there's a lot of
reading I've done, and this is abig actually trend around the
world, I think, trying to becomemore mindful of yourself, right,
and conscious of your thoughtsand everything. But there's this
primitive mind. There's thismillion years of evolution that
where we're wired for some ofthese things, right to to want
(13:40):
more. No matter what we have, wewant more. We want to be the
best in the group, the biggestin the group, the strongest,
right? And we're all and then wehave this whole ego that we've
evolved, and sometimes that egois our biggest nemesis, you
know, telling us that, you know,same thing, you know, we have to
(14:00):
have the what our neighbor has,and it compares what we have to
what you know others have. Andyou've got to almost pause and
think about, you know, is thatyour ego talking, or your your
true self, you really have totry to capture all the
emotional, primitive mind stuff,try to move to a kind of a
(14:23):
higher mind that's more Kinder,giving back to society, giving
back to people and things likethat. So that's what I've tried
to do now, and been able to do alittle bit.
Mick Spiers (14:36):
All right, really good. So we've covered that
wealth is not the answer andmaterial pursuits, because
there's always a bigger car, abigger house, there's always a
bigger paycheck, and if we justkeep on pursuing that, we'll
never reach in fact, the targetgets even further away as we try
to pursue those things. Okay, solet's get into what the
(14:57):
indicators are. So I doencourage everyone to. Get a
copy of the book and to get acopy of the app, and start
following some of these. I'vedone the Zen score myself.
Haven't yet done the life score,but to follow these things, and
you'll start seeing theindicators of where you could
actually start to get good atlife. But over to you, Bill,
(15:17):
you've got a really greatacronym here that can help us to
look at where we should lookyeah.
Bill Zujewski (15:24):
Yeah. So, I mean, I should tell everyone, if I
haven't already, I've been inmarketing most of my career, so
you have to try to create eithera concept or some way, you know,
a mental anchor to rememberthings. And I came up with help
grow. Now, when I started mylittle personal scorecard, the
(15:46):
spreadsheet that I used, youknow, it didn't spell help grow,
but I saw the letters wereclose, but actually let me go
through them, help grow, H, theH in help for health, E for
environment, L for leisure, Pfor purpose. So that's the help
part. And then grow is aroundgrowth, the G, R relationships,
(16:09):
O, occupation and W is wealth.
And those are really the eightmajor things that I try to pay
attention to and make surethey're all aligned, that I'm
not overly consumed in one areaand jeopardizing the the other
areas, right? So those are,those are the eight categories.
Mick Spiers (16:31):
Yeah, really good Bill, and we're going to unpack
it one at a time in a moment.
But you used the word companyscorecard before and I and in
the book, you talk about apersonal balance scorecard. And
what I'm hearing from you here,it's not about wow, I scored 100
in health, but my my leisure iszero, or I scored, you know, 20
on purpose. But it's okay,because everything else is 100
(16:54):
to me, it's the balance thatwe're that we're looking for
here. So by looking through thenwe can identify, Okay, well,
okay, I'm a little bit lackingin the following categories. And
if I want to be good at life, Ineed to be more balanced in
those things. Is what I'm takingaway there.
Bill Zujewski (17:12):
Yeah. And just to be clear with the listeners,
because a lot of people now,when I talk about this notion of
balance, they jump right to thesimpler model of work and non
work, like there's two worlds,and that's not what I'm talking
about here. I'm talking actuallyabout balance and alignment
across all the most importantaspects of a life, right? Your
(17:35):
Health, spending time on that,your home, making sure you have
a home you enjoy, taking timeleisure, right? Taking time to
have fun in life. What wouldlife be without having some
pleasure in it, right? And thenhaving purpose? You know,
there's a, there's a spiritualpart of life as well. And then
the relationships part is soimportant. If you had, you know,
(17:57):
all this wealth, but no one toshare it with, what's the point?
You know, if you don't have therelationships, and then you know
your career obviously pays thebills, so that's still important
and gives you some fulfillment.
And you do need some moneyaround wrong well, so when I
talk about balance, I'm talkingabout across all those eight
categories, and what happens is,if you ignore one or two or
(18:17):
three, it starts to spill overinto causing issues and stress
and anxiety in, you know, inother parts of your life. So
it's all interconnected.
Mick Spiers (18:31):
Yeah. Really good bill, okay, so let's go through
them relatively quickly on eachone and give some indicators of
what good would look like andwhat not so good would look
like, and what people could do,you know, maybe some actions,
if, if they look at this andthey listening to the show, and
they look in the mirror and go,yeah, right, that's that's not
me, what they could do about it.
So, what does good health looklike to you, Bill?
Bill Zujewski (18:56):
Sure, sure. And the scores, actually, there's
two scores, the Zen score, ittakes a minute, and it tells
you, how do you feel about yourhealth, right? And that's one
question, and you score yourselfzero to 10. But then in the life
score, it scores you about youractions and what you're doing.
So it will go ahead and ask youa question, you know, do you
(19:17):
have a nutrient rich diet withwhole foods and lean proteins,
you know. So what's your diet?
Do you smoke? You know, how muchalcohol do you consume? Do you
get the you know, at least sevenhours of sleep. Do you do cardio
exercise at least three times aweek? Do you hydrate regularly?
You know? Do you do somestrength training, right? So
those are the physical aspects,and then on mental aspects, it
(19:37):
talks about, do you setboundaries? Do you do some
mindfulness and self reflection?
Right? So what I, what I've,what I've tried to do, is I'm
not telling people how to livetheir lives. But there's,
there's science and researchthat says you do these things
best practices, you'll have ahealthier life, you'll have more
(19:59):
energy. You. Live longer. Youwon't have, you know, some of
the chronic diseases that startwith kind of your your habits
around what you eat and what youdo. So people can debate that
everyone's different, but Iwould debate that there is kind
of a foundational playbook forhaving a healthy life.
Mick Spiers (20:17):
All right, really, really good Bill, so I'm going
to share a few things as as wego, all right, but I'm going to
interject here with an importantthing of the way I looked, and I
picked this up from the book,and I hope I've done it the
right way, by the way, but Ipicked this up as a thread
through the book. When I wasgiving myself the scores, I was
also coming from a place ofgratitude, right? So I wasn't
(20:38):
just focusing on what I don'thave. I was focusing on being
happy with what I do. Have beenno, not happy, grateful, being
grateful for what I do have,instead of just focusing on what
I don't have. So I'm going togive you my scores as we, as we
go through this and reflect onwhat I was thinking. So health
was not great for me. I putmyself as a seven. I could have
(21:01):
easily put it as a six, a fiveor a four, but I am grateful
that I'm not in hospital. Idon't have a chronic illness. Am
I happy with my level of fitnessand my overall health? No, I've
got a few problems, and I'vebeen at the doctor recently and
had a few things that I've hadto, had to check up. So am I in,
(21:22):
you know, physical fitness? No,but am I grateful that I am not
chronically ill? Yes, so I gavemyself a seven. How does that
like? I'm trying to do this inreal time with you. How does
that sit with you in terms ofthe way I did it?
Bill Zujewski (21:36):
Yeah, no, that's perfect, right? So a seven is
acceptable. You know, it's funnywhen people that can't help but
go to the grading system, right?
I mean, that's what we'retaught. So at least in the US,
your, you know, your scores inthe 70s, and you're giving
yourself a C, so that's aindicator to, you know, in this,
in the app and in the book, thatyou're doing okay, but there's
(21:58):
room for improvement. If youwere three or four, like, then
you'd be saying yourself, oh mygosh, like you're you're scared
you might die or have a heartattack, or you don't have the
energy or capability to dothings you want in life. So you
know that would probably havecome across like a two or three,
a seven says there's no reasonto panic, but, you know, I think
(22:21):
I gave myself a six, and I'mpretty healthy, but I know it's
such an important part of lifethat I need to lose, you know,
the 1015, pounds, and not behuffing and puffing when I'm
walking upstairs. So I'm nothappy, even though I'm grateful.
I'm pretty healthy guy inperson. I have room to work with
(22:42):
there.
Mick Spiers (22:45):
Yeah, good. And this is where I'm going to go
with this is this is going to beone of the indicators I'm going
to work on after having donethis exercise bill. But it's the
same kind of thing. I want to behealthy so I can do the things
that I enjoy, with my kids, withmy wife, with my friends, etc.
If you're not healthy, itimpacts your ability to do some
of the other categories thatwe're going to talk about. Yeah,
(23:07):
really good.
Bill Zujewski (23:08):
It's a coincidence, but it's H is the
first letter it all starts. Youcan't do anything else unless
you're up and out of bed andhealthy and, you know, living.
Mick Spiers (23:19):
All right, okay, so E is environment. What does a
good environment look like toyou, Bill?
Bill Zujewski (23:25):
Yeah, and to me, that's the home, and I take
pride in my home, but what Italk about here is having
somewhere you can relax, you canrecharge, you can entertain
friends to come over like youspend a big chunk of your life
at home, right? And so I knowfor my wife and I, we just built
(23:49):
the house because we wanted wewere the sun was on the wrong
side. Our house was so dark wewere in the middle of the woods.
We just needed a new locationwhere we had more light in our
life and a view. So one of myour goals, and, you know, I'm a
big believer you can design thelife you want. We've been
looking for 20 years and savingtowards, you know, finding the
(24:12):
lot and building the house thatwould give us a place we would,
you know, call home for the restof our lives, because it's such
an important part of life, andthen where it's located, the
weather, the commute, access tohealth. Can you go out for a
walk and, you know, parks, youknow, so your home is a critical
(24:32):
aspect of whether you're goingto be happy or not.
Mick Spiers (24:35):
Yeah, really good.
Bill. All right, so here we goagain. I'm going to show you. I
scored myself an eight here. I'mgrateful for what I have, but
then I'm also aware of whenenvironment impacts me. So let
me give some examples here, andI'm going to give some workplace
and some home examples. Reallysilly one, I'd say nine times
out of 10 I love my home and myfamily and everything that we've
(24:56):
got around here. And thenthere's the occasional. Time
where I'll walk into the livingroom and realize I didn't fold
the laundry. The laundry isstill sitting there, kind of
thing. And it's kind of whatcould have been a I'm going to,
you know, relax now, etc, etc.
It's kind of, no, I can't relaxbecause I didn't fold the
laundry, kind of situation. ButI'm still grateful that I've got
(25:20):
a nice house with roof over myhead, and I've got a comfortable
life when it comes to thecommute. I found that one really
interesting when I was readingthe book. I can tell you when I
drive my car to work and where Ilive and where I go to work. The
traffic the car traffic ishorrendous. It can take me up to
(25:40):
two hours, and it is extremelystressful. So what do I do? I
take an intentional action. WhenI catch the train. I love the
commute. I look out the windowand watch the world go past, or
if I ride my bike, even better,because then I'm working on my
health as well. I enjoy thecommute. And then the same thing
in the workplace. And this is abig one for leaders. We want to
(26:01):
create an environment wherepeople want to come to work,
right? So it's an and now I'mtalking the physical
environment, but also the mentalenvironment, that it's not a
toxic place, that it's a placewhere people treat each other
well and treat each other withrespect. So the environment one
I did give myself an aid, Ithink I've got it in good stead,
but you can still see therewhere I can take some
(26:22):
intentional actions to avoid thethings that would make it worse.
Does that make sense?
Bill Zujewski (26:28):
Right, yeah, 100% and so let me tell you what, how
this would have played out in myapp. So you would have gave
yourself an eight in your zenscore, how you feel about, you
know, your environment. But ifyou went in and then try to did
the life score assessment,there's 10 questions around the
home environment, and one of thequestions is, you know, Rate
(26:51):
yourself zero to 10 in thisquestion, I maintain a clean,
clutter free and organized homeenvironment, right? And if you
didn't, it'd be a wake up callthat some of that is, yeah,
creating some overhead ofthinking about, you know, all
the things you have to do aroundthe house before you can relax.
And then the other one, theother question, one of the other
(27:12):
two of the 10 questions was mycommute or work setup supports
balance and minimizes stress,right? So you probably would
have scored yourself low thereand again, that would have been
telling you maybe, maybe you gotto think about changing my
commute or doing something onit, but that it was a, you know,
an indicator that you weren't,you know, doing the best in that
(27:35):
area.
Mick Spiers (27:36):
Yeah, really. Good, Bill. Okay, excellent. So L is
leisure, or leisure for you. Andpronunciations are interesting.
So leisure or leisure? So, yeah,tell us. What do you think are
the key things here of wherepeople get it right and here
where, where people just get itwrong when it comes to leisure?
Bill Zujewski (27:55):
Yeah. So I think people think of leisure as maybe
simplify, oversimplified as Itake vacation, right? There's
actually, there's 10 areas inyour life. Score for leisure
that I've I've identified. Itstarts with your having some
kind of hobby or interest,whether it's painting or
(28:16):
gardening or playing aninstrument, and then having
outdoor activities, having somemindfulness and rest,
socializing with friends, doingsome digital detox, listening to
music, maybe doing some selfcare or spa, and then having fun
and playing and doing somesocialization like Those are the
(28:37):
10 questions around leisure andpeople who do those kinds of
things help seem to be fresher,happier, right, more optimistic
and really having some pleasurein the life to balance the times
where they're working hard. It'sthe fruit for the labor, right?
Mick Spiers (28:59):
Yeah, really good.
So I'm going to be open here andsay I gave myself a nine. Now
the word is, now I can look atparts of my life where this
would have been a one or twoBill seriously workaholic
tendencies. And, you know, Iwould have scored like, come
back to the word balance. Iwould have scored big scores in
other areas. And this would havebeen really low at different
(29:20):
parts of my life, but, but now Ido intentionally carve out time
i I've now, you know, I playgolf, I play tennis, I spend
quality time with my family andand when I do when I'm spending
time with my son, I put my myphone away, and I am completely
present with him, and getcompletely mindful and in the
(29:40):
moment, and that's when therichness of that experience
comes, instead of beingdistracted, etc, and that's
going to impact some of theothers.
Bill Zujewski (29:49):
Yeah, I could tell you a quick, quick story,
and believe me, I count myblessings, and I'm so grateful I
was able to do this. But youknow, a couple of my companies
have been a COVID. Fired once,twice by Oracle, actually in
2016 PTC acquired exceeda, and Iwas cmo there, and I actually
took a whole year and a halfoff. Mick, I took a sabbatical,
(30:13):
and my kids were middle school,two in high school, I coached a
basketball, baseball it was likea retirement in the middle of my
career. And my rationale, itwas, geez, I still have all this
energy and my kids at home. Youknow, when I'm retired, it's
just going to be me. I couldwork hard then. So I did end up
(30:37):
going back, because I was kindof warned that, because I always
intended to go back, but that ifI stayed too far, you know, into
my sabbatical, that people wouldnot hire me because they think
there'd be a stigma that I lostthe fire to, you know, work, so
I ended up, you know, endingthat, but it was a fun time.
Mick Spiers (30:56):
Yeah, really good.
Okay, all right. So very good onleisure. Let's make sure that we
are carving out time, and we're,we're doing that, alright, gotta
hit all the letters Yes, yeah,exactly. Alright. Let's get to
purpose. Tell us about we've,we've discussed this on the show
a lot, but I want to hear fromyou, Bill, tell us about the
power of purpose.
Bill Zujewski (31:16):
Yeah, and purpose, purpose will change at
through your life, cycle of yourlife, right? And your your your
20s. There's nothing wrong withactually career being your
purpose. You've got to build afoundation to build a life
around and get money home. Ithink as you become a leader the
company you're creating, it'sfine for that to to become, you
(31:41):
know your your purpose again,you're creating jobs for people
so so that that becomes aninteresting purpose for me. One
of the biggest joys and proudpoints for me is that time where
I was building my family andraising four kids that got me
out of bed when, you know, at6am knowing that I was I wanted
(32:04):
to pay for college for all ofthem. I wanted to take them on
vacations every year. And myfamily gave me amazing purpose.
And now I'm in a position whereI think my purpose is, you know,
grander like, Boy, I've learnedso much. How could I life is so
hard. How could I help more andmore people with dealing with
(32:25):
the complexity and difficultiesof life and trying to trying to
do it that way? So there's a lotof elements, but I'm a big
believer in, you know, havingsome purpose that drives you a
super healthy and supermotivating.
Mick Spiers (32:43):
Yeah, really good, Bill. And I'm going to say here
I scored myself a 10. Here, I'ma very purpose driven person. I
did the work. I did the work towork out. Well, one of my
purposes, I have three. One ofmy purposes dawned on me through
a realization 2005 so quitealmost 20 years ago, it was a
very distinct activity that ledto that. And then the rest I've
(33:06):
done the work to go, Okay, whatdoes bring me joy? Like, what
are the things that I enjoy? Buthow is it impactful on the world
and impactful for other humanbeings? And and purpose is
generally at the bottom of theservice of other human beings,
but the intersection ofsomething that you're good at,
something that you enjoy doing,but it means something, it means
something to others and helpingothers. So I did give myself a
(33:29):
10 here for the audience. Wehave covered this on the show
before, but I encourage you, ifyou're still struggling with
purpose, there are exercisesthat you can do. You can look at
the work of Zach Mercuri, hours,examples to go and find your
purpose. There is ways, ifyou're feeling lost, this is one
that you can invest in. Allright, tell me about growth.
Bill Zujewski (33:49):
So growth is, I think again, it's a ingrained in
being a human right. If we'renot growing, we're dying and and
some of the happiest and mostsuccessful people are lifelong
learners. And I've tried toinstill that in my kids. I've
(34:10):
been pretty lucky. It's justnatural. We just love learning,
consuming knowledge. And I thinkanother part of human nature is
just being better, being thebest self person we could so I'm
always trying to extend myself,challenge myself, learn as much
as I can, and then I have alittle secret. So a little hack,
(34:33):
not a hack, but a little guidingprinciple in my life that I
think is one of the simplestdefinitions of happiness for me
is if I set goals and are makingprogress. To me, progress equals
happiness. I feel the best whena day goes by and I've done
something, you know, when I,when I, when I get to bed and I
(34:55):
look back and I wasted a day, Ifeel like nauseous and
miserable, like. Oh, my God. Imean, no progress on anything.
So I think progress is superimportant part of life.
Mick Spiers (35:07):
Yeah, like this, and I can see how progress and
growth going hand in hand.
Absolutely, on this one, Iscored myself a 10 as well. I
study every day. I studypsychology. I'm an engineer as
well. Bill and why? Why I nowstudy psychology I certainly
didn't when I was younger, is Itry to make rational sense of an
sometimes irrational world. So Istudy psychology every day. And
(35:28):
the other little gift I have isthat I get to do this podcast,
and by the time this episodegoes to air, we'll be up to
episode 270, something. I get tosit down in front of people like
Bill zajewski and and learnwonderful things. So I feel very
blessed when it comes to growthinteresting around the progress.
I don't know that I've takenthat into account when I've
(35:51):
given myself a high score. Soyeah, the progress is one for me
to maybe take a look at for theaudience. Ask yourself that,
when was the last time? And someof you probably do do this all
the time, but ask yourself thehard question, look yourself in
the mirror and go, when was thelast time you invested in your
own growth? When was the lasttime you learned something new
intentionally? And how are youmeasuring your progress? So I
(36:14):
think this is one for all of usto look at the growth. All
right. R for relationships,Bill, tell us what this looks
like, and why is it important?
Bill Zujewski (36:25):
Yeah, I talked a little bit about all the studies
that how it's one of this bestcorrelations your relationships
to whether you're going to behappy and healthy. But people
don't. People think they justhappen happenstance, and you
actually have to understand whata good relationship takes and
(36:46):
invest in building thoserelationships. And I think I
mentioned this to you, like, ifyou didn't have other people to
share everything in your life,your joy, your assets, your
home, your vacations with, like,what would be the purpose of
life alone on an island, right?
So I think, I thinkrelationships is naturally
important, but in my life,score, the questions are, you
(37:07):
know, there's like 15 of them. Imean, there's around effective
communication. I communicatehonestly and openly, right?
Empathy, I show empathy andunderstand when to put others
needs first, right? I spendquality time with my family and
friends, with important,important people, right? I
(37:28):
express love regularly, right? Ihave a social circle of friends
I can relax with. I I'm verygrateful and celebrate, you
know, with other people. And so,I mean there, there's like, I
said, that's just off the top ofmy head, some of them, but
there's a nice list of like, Iguess, best practices to improve
(37:49):
the relationships you have inyour life around you.
Mick Spiers (37:55):
So yeah, you're right. The studies keep on
showing this one time and timeagain, the the richness of our
relationships is actually whatis the bigger indicator of of
happiness than anything else,and if we're we're not investing
that time, it's going to be atour detriment. For sure, the
gratitude for other humanbeings, the service of other
(38:15):
human beings, the connectionwith other human beings is where
all this lives now. Here is onethat I'm going to have to
rescore this bill, to be honest.
So when I did it, I first gavemyself a 10, and that was purely
based on the relationship withmy wife, which is an amazing
one, one that I'm grateful forevery single day Mart. When I
look deeper and I listen to youtoday, I've let slip the
(38:39):
personal relationships of longstanding friends that I haven't
spoken to in a long time, andthose friendships are strong
enough that I know that if Irang them today, that we would
reconnect in an instant. But thetruth is, I've unintentionally
let those slip. So I need totake an intentional action to
(39:01):
reach out to those people andsay hello and check in how you
doing, and show them that I thatI care for them. And so this
will be an action that I'll takeas a result of today's
conversation so.
Bill Zujewski (39:15):
I'm glad I had a little bit of impact on you.
Mick, right? That's awesome. Alot of times people, when
they're they feel like stuck or,you know, disconnected, you
know, revisiting some of thefriendships they have can kind
of remind them of the importantthings of life and get them out
of that rut that they're in. Sothere's also an expression you
(39:37):
are, who your friends are,right? So it's, it really, it
really is true. I look closelyat my four kids circles and make
sure they're in the rightcircle, because that circle of
people will have a hugeinfluence in defining who they
are.
Mick Spiers (39:55):
Yeah. Really good.
Okay, all right, very good. Solet's go on to always about.
Occupation. Where doesoccupation come in, Bill?
Bill Zujewski (40:03):
Well, first of all, I I found my ambition, you
know, manageable and sometimesvery fulfilling. You know, when
you're marketing and you hityour numbers, or when I was in
sales and I closed a newcustomer. I mean, maybe it's the
human nature competing andwinning. You know, I play team
sports, and that spilled overinto, you know, the career
(40:25):
choices I made. But it's alsowhere you meet people. It's also
where you spend so much time ofyour life. You want to be around
people you like, you get alongwith who are who are kind. So
you have to pay attention to,you know, the job you choose,
are you being paid fairly? Haveyou found an occupation that
(40:45):
that pays the bills and allowsyou what you allows you to do
what you want to do in life, interms of work life balance? So
occupation may not be the mostimportant, but it's pretty high
up there, and it's a prettyimportant aspect of life that
you need to self reflect around.
Are you at the right company?
Are you in the right career, youknow, and do you have, you know,
(41:09):
the right manager, all thosethings you've got to do a
checkpoint.
Mick Spiers (41:12):
Yeah, really good, Bill, so I gave myself an aid on
this one. I feel very lucky. Iget to do work where I feel
seen, I feel valued. I feelrespected. It's meaningful work
to me. So I gave myself aneight, but I didn't give myself
a 10, and I'll explain why everyjob has its frustrations, first
of all, but that's not what itwas. What I gave myself less
(41:33):
than 10 was because of purposealignment, to make sure that
what we do is aligned to ourpurpose, and where I find why I
didn't give myself a 10 is whereyou end up in elements of
bureaucracy, that there areelements of churn in your job
that aren't connected to yourpurpose. And I think if we can
(41:55):
get rid of some of thoseinefficiencies, you'd go home
feeling more proud that what youdid today was towards achieving
those that purpose and towardsthose goals. So I didn't give
myself a perfect score, but Ifeel very lucky in in occupation
I always have.
Bill Zujewski (42:13):
Yeah, and these scores, these scores, how you
feel about these areas, dochange. You know, year to year,
even month to month, or even dayto day. Sometimes, like, I have
times where, oh my god, I'm solucky to be have the freedom to
be running my own company, andbut then I have days or weeks
where, like, oh my gosh, I haveno income coming in for almost a
(42:34):
year now, trying to build thiscompany. And then what if I
fail? I've done so much good.
And then one of my legacy isactually a company that doesn't
make it. So there's challengeseven to, you know, you know, in
a in the occupation, that nevergoes away, for sure.
Mick Spiers (42:51):
Yeah, yeah. Really good. Okay, so once again,
people, you can reflect on this,have a think about in your
occupation. If you don't giveyourself a high score here, what
would you do differently? Andthat doesn't mean leave the job.
It means start with where you'reat and think about, well, what
little changes could you make,where your occupation could be,
something that has a high score,all right? And the final one is
(43:12):
wealth, and you put it last. Onpurpose, I know this, but it is
important that we at least haveenough money to meet needs,
right? To put food on the tableand put roof over the head. So
tell us more about wealth.
Bill Zujewski (43:25):
Right, right? So, clearly, clearly, like you said,
you want to have some sort ofincome that allows you to live
the life you you know, have avacation, pay the bills, have a
home you're comfortable in, buta lot of the strife and tension
and divorces are fights overmoney, and a lot of that has to
(43:51):
do with this materialistic worldand overspending or the ego. I
think one of my questions is Irefrain from impulse buying,
practice mindful spending andavoid expensive brand purchases
driven by my ego, right? So thatwould be like buying the $3,000
you know, Gucci or Prada bag orsomething or, right? There's
(44:15):
some, there's some stuff or ortrying to keep up with the
Joneses, and spending, you know,half your paycheck on your
monthly mortgage to pay for yourhome. Oh my gosh, you've just
created a stressful life foryourself where you could have
downsized and been just as happyin a smaller home and not
created all all this tension. Soin the wealth score, you know,
(44:40):
I've documented you'll pay yourcredit card off every month. You
know, save 10% make sure yourmortgage is less than 25% of
your monthly pay. You know, havea balanced portfolio. Start
saving for retirement. Have abudget. Spend. You know, be
frugal. You know, all the bestpractices that people who have.
Financial house in order gothrough and do you.
Mick Spiers (45:03):
Really good, Bill.
So I gave myself a seven here,and the reason why it's not a 10
is I don't always make smartdecisions with my money. I can
stick my hand up on that one, sothat's where I need to do a bit
of work make smarter decisions.
But the reason why the score isso high now to go the other way
is I'm grateful for what I haveinstead of being worried about
(45:24):
what I don't have. Yeah, and I Ifeel lucky. I feel lucky that I
don't have to go live paycheckto paycheck. I have a balanced
view on the finances, but Istill don't always make the
smartest decisions.
Bill Zujewski (45:38):
I have a story that I love telling and it's,
you know, I've lost my parentsnow both, but you know, they
came over. I was the first born,and they came over in the 60s
from Poland, and my father wasmechanic, and my mom raised five
kids, and I didn't know it atthe time. I mean, we had a happy
(45:59):
household every weekend, Sundaydinner, friends over, we were
living paycheck to paycheck,like my father was scrambling,
taking on extra jobs to justmake sure he hit the mortgage
payment. None of that wasevident to me until I was like
20, 3040, years old, paying myown mortgage so you can, you can
be happy with without wealth,and I just saw it in my
(46:23):
household, and to me, it justwas a proof point that belief.
Mick Spiers (46:28):
Yeah, really good, Bill, all right, so I'm going to
bring us to towards a close nowand head towards our Rapid
Round. So I'm going to reflectagain to everyone and hold up
for those who are watching onthe video, hold up the book
again. Watch what's your lifescore? And this is about getting
your own life in order so youcan be a better leader, right?
And you can help others then aswell. If you, if you get some of
(46:48):
these categories in control,then you're in a position to
help your team and your lovedones, etc, to work on it as
well. So the help grow, health,environment, leisure, purpose,
growth, relationships,occupation, wealth. Have you got
these things in balance? And dothe score? Do the score in the
app, and it will tell you fromthe scores you give you go, Oh,
(47:10):
here we go. I need to work alittle bit more on health, or I
need to carve out time for moreleisure, or I need to reach out
and connect with more people.
You know, my my friends. Ihaven't connected with them for
a while. It's going to give yousome steers on where you could
act.
Bill Zujewski (47:26):
And by the way, by the way, Mick, by the way,
the happy employees for theleaders and executives out there
are more productive, less likelyto leave their job. All you
know, you know. So all thesethings, I hate to bring it up,
but they actually have strongbenefits for your company
culture.
Mick Spiers (47:45):
Absolutely, there's no doubt about that whatsoever,
all right. And then if you wantto take it a bit further, you
can do the life score element aswell, not not just the Zen
score, and it'll help you withsome more targeted questions on
where you might focus yourenergy to bring more balance in
your life. And yeah, it'shappiness. Is is not the pursuit
of happiness. It's not thepursuit of wealth. It's the
(48:06):
happiness of the pursuit. It'sabout growing every day. So
you'll do, you won't do thesescores. Just once you would,
you'd go back and see how youprogress as you go along.
Bill Zujewski (48:17):
Progress. There you go. You said it the key to
happiness.
Mick Spiers (48:22):
All right, brilliant, Bill, I've loved
this. I'm going to personallyput these things in action, and
I'm encouraging the audience todo so as well. Let's go to our
Rapid Round. These are the samefour questions we ask all of our
guests. Bill, so firstly, what'sthe one thing you know now? Bill
Zujewski that you wish you knewwhen you were 20?
Bill Zujewski (48:40):
Yeah. And again, I'm grateful for my
relationships with my kids, mywife and I have good friends,
but, you know, I sometimes amjealous, and I shouldn't be of
some of these best friends thatpeople have, and I look back, I
probably didn't invest enough,you know, building those super,
(49:04):
super close relationships withpeople earlier in life. You
know, it's one of those thingsthat no one ever actually taught
me. You don't learn in school.
You actually have to invest tobe a good friend.
Mick Spiers (49:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Well said, sir. All right,now, always a curious question
for authors, what's yourfavorite book?
Bill Zujewski (49:25):
Oh, you know, I don't I. I'm sad to say, I read
a lot of non fiction. I'll giveyou two. I'll give you one
fiction. Jeffrey Archer wrotethis book called Cain and Abel,
and just talked about thedichotomy of a overly ambitious,
greedy son versus a moreempathetic son, and how their
life's life's played out. Andthen I do like the tipping point
(49:51):
of Malcolm Gladwell, some a lotof Malcolm Gladwell stuff is
very, very well done.
Mick Spiers (49:58):
Yeah, all right.
Very good. And good suggestions.
Now I feel guilty asking youthis question, because the book
is full of impactful quotes.
What's your favorite quote?
Bill Zujewski (50:08):
Yeah, and I'm going to give you one that
wasn't in the book, so it's abonus. Yeah, it's a bonus. And
it was, and it's one I picked upa couple of years ago and from
Warren Buffett. So someone askedhim about what he would, how he
would qualify a good life, youknow, in a successful life, and
(50:29):
he says, you know, it's simple,the number of people that love
you in the end, that's it,right? That to him, that was the
KPI, KPI of life, that said tohim, whether you led a good life
or not, and it was a goodreflection. And I thought that
was a great way to look at life.
Mick Spiers (50:47):
Yeah, what? And what a great, great way to
summarize what we've beentalking about in today's
discussion as well. Bill, right?
And finally, how do people findyou? There's going to be people
listening to this. Hopefully.
They've been scoring themselvesa little bit in their head as
they go. But how do they findthe book? How do they find the
app? How do they find you, Bill?
Bill Zujewski (51:03):
Yeah, well, just screenshot this right now. If
you're watching because it's ajuice key, is the key. There's
not many of them. So if you justGoogle. Bill Zujewski, I'm the
only one. But go togoodlife.com. You know, with two
eyes, that's, that's you.
You'll, you'll see my story, mybook, my software and all that
LinkedIn, same thing. Connectwith me. I love connecting
people. DM me. And then if youwant to email me,
(51:26):
bill@goodlife.com and if you go
Mick Spiers (51:27):
All right, wonderful Bill, well, thank you
to Amazon and search onZujewski, there's only one book
written, what's your life scoreon Amazon? So that's the best
way to get a hold of me.
for sharing your wisdom for ustoday, and your very practical
book and your practical app. Itreally is something that's easy
(51:47):
for us all to do, but it'smeaningful. It's easy, but
meaningful, I encourage everyoneto do. So thank you so much.
Bill for sharing it with ustoday, and congratulations on
the success of getting it outthere, and what you're doing not
just to help yourself, but tohelp others, to get their life
in order and to be good at life.
Bill Zujewski (52:05):
That's my tagline. Thanks Mick, appreciate
it.
Mick Spiers (52:10):
What an amazing conversation with Bill Zujewski.
What if life really did comewith a scorecard, not to rank
you, but to remind you, to nudgeyou, to pause, to help you live
with intention instead ofinertia. Today, Bill gave us
more than a framework. He gaveus permission, permission to
stop running on autopilot,permission to check in with
(52:33):
ourselves, permission to designthe life we want before it
designs us. So here's yourreflection prompt for today.
What's your life score inhealth, in purpose, in joy, and
what's one small action youcould take today to improve it?
If this conversation resonatedwith you, please share it with
(52:55):
someone who's ready to reflecttoo. You never know who might be
silently struggling behind theirleadership title, and don't
forget to check out Bill's bookand The Good Life app. They're
both great companions on thejourney back to yourself. In the
next episode, we're going to bejoined by Jonathan Stutz, who
talks us about intentionalactions for inclusive
(53:19):
leadership. It.
Thank you for listening to TheLeadership Project
mickspiers.com a huge call outto Faris Sedek for his video
editing of all of our videocontent and to all of the team
at TLP. Joan Gozon, GeraldCalibo and my amazing wife Sei
Spiers, I could not do this showwithout you. Don't forget to
(53:42):
subscribe to The LeadershipProject YouTube channel, where
we bring you interesting videoseach and every week, and you can
follow us on social,particularly on LinkedIn,
Facebook and Instagram. Now, inthe meantime, please do take
care. Look out for each otherand join us on this journey as
we learn together and leadtogether.
Let me ask you this, are you living or just
existing? If you're like mostpeople, especially leaders, your
days are full, full of meetings,decisions, responsibilities and
goals. But how often do you stopand ask, is this actually the
life I want to be living intoday's episode of The
Leadership Project. We're joinedby Bill Zujewski, former tech
(00:25):
exec and founder of good lifeand the author of watch your
life. Score. What started as asimple spreadsheet scoring
himself at the end of each yearturned into a personal
transformation and now apowerful tool and framework to
help others step out ofautopilot and into an
(00:45):
intentional life. Together, weexplore the eight dimensions of
life that bill believes we allshould measure, not to judge
ourselves, but to reflect, totake stock and to choose what
matters most. This is not yourtypical leadership conversation,
it's personal, it's vulnerable,and it might just change the way
(01:06):
you think about success. So getready to look in the mirror and
maybe, just maybe, to reclaimthe steering wheel of your own
life.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto The Leadership Project. We've
got a special treat for youtoday. We're joined by Bill
Zujewski. Bill is the founderand CEO of an organization
called good life, and he's theauthor of a book called What's
(01:30):
your life score, and it'saccompanied with an app that can
help you measure your life andlook for where you might
improve. So it's going to be avery practical discussion. We're
going to look in the mirrortoday. We're going to look at
your life. Going to think aboutwhere you're at and take some
time to reflect and where youmight focus so you can go on a
(01:53):
pursuit of happiness. If you'renot happy as a leader, you're
not going to be creating theenvironment that is great for
the rest of your team. So it isimportant for us to stop and
reflect and look at ourselves inthe mirror and take action
around our life. So this isgoing to be a deep introspection
today, and I'm really lookingforward to hearing from Bill and
(02:15):
going on this journey with you.
I'm going to be listening toBill. I'll be doing the actions
myself, the things that we comeout of today's discussion I'll
be personally doing as well. Sowithout any further ado, I want
to give bill the stage here.
Bill tell us a little bit moreabout what inspired you to write
this book and develop this appand to help people to measure
(02:38):
their life and take action.
Bill Zujewski (02:41):
Yeah, no. Thanks for having me, Mick, I'd love to
tell the story. You know, Ispent most of my life actually
in corporate marketing, managingmarketing departments for
software companies, but alwayshad an inkling to do my own
thing, and had this concept inthe back of my mind that this
(03:01):
might be an interesting conceptto actually help people and
build a company around. So itgoes way back, 20 years ago, the
engineer and me, at the end ofeach year would do a little
Google spreadsheet and justassess, you know, before New
Year's resolutions, how I didlast year in my my health and
(03:22):
fitness. How do I do my netassets, my finances, my job, and
I'd score myself zero to 10, andit was a very useful exercise
for me. I started using it withmy kids, and then I'm like, I
think there's something here. Ithink there's something around a
personal scorecard, just like acompany has a dashboard. And so
(03:44):
I, about a year ago, launched amobile app to do it and then to
compliment it. I thought itwould be great to help me kind
of get my word out and brand outthere to write this book about
the concept of there's twoscores in there, a Zen score and
a life score. And it's, it'spretty simple. And the my
(04:05):
tagline for the company is, getgood at life. And it's, you
know, we know life is hard, it'scomplex. A lot of people don't
know what to do, and I,hopefully, I've given them here,
you know, almost like a playbookto design a life.
Mick Spiers (04:21):
Yeah, really good, Bill. I hope that we're all out
there trying to get good atlife. However, sometimes we do
find ourselves in almost like anautopilot mode, where we're just
we're not a human being anymore,where we're just a human going
and wandering and meandering. Sowhy do you think it's important
(04:42):
for people to intentionally stopand take a closer look?
Bill Zujewski (04:47):
Yeah, it's interesting. And then, you know,
I've been studying this topicsince my, you know, early days
of my career, I went and when Isay topic, I'm just happiness,
fulfillment, and those concepts.
Because there's, it's such astruggle to get there. And what
I realized was that it makes youpause if you start self
(05:09):
reflecting on your life, likemost of our lives are reactive.
We're just like, Okay, I get,got to get up, go to work, get
the paycheck. But I'm a hugebeliever. I learned these
concepts early on that you cankind of manifest things. If you
have a vision of where you wantto go and what you want to do,
the things you do, day to day,week to week, month to month,
(05:31):
start to kind of help you kindof create that vision you have
for yourself. So I am a hugebeliever that you can kind of
pause, look at what you're doingin these eight areas, which
we'll get to, and design a life,and then make decisions that
create the life that you reallywant to have in 10 years, 20
(05:52):
years, 30 years.
Mick Spiers (05:55):
So the key word that's ringing my head when I
hear this is the wordintentionality, is to actually
take control of your life andmake intentional decisions
instead of the the autopilot,like I was saying. The curious
thing for me, Bill, goingthrough the book, it sounds like
you had been doing this for awhile in like you said in a
spreadsheet before, but when youwrote this book and start doing
(06:18):
yourself, what did you learnabout yourself, Bill?
Bill Zujewski (06:21):
Yeah, well, I definitely, I definitely learned
that I'm an engineer, becauseeverything I was doing I was
organizing around, likeframeworks and, you know, mind
maps and things like that. Andthen I started to think about
(06:42):
what I would do different if Ihad to give advice to people,
and I think, I think I wouldhave spent more time, probably
my some of the friendships earlyon. So that was, that was
actually enlightening. And thenthe other epiphany I'm starting
to have is starting a company isreally hard, and I'm like
(07:04):
questioning, can I actuallymaintain this notion of a
balanced life and all the thingsI am advocating for, and still,
you know, put in the work that'srequired to start a company from
scratch, right? So that'sanother thing I'm starting to
think about.
Mick Spiers (07:21):
Yeah, really good.
I'm hearing a few things there,Bill, one is the realization of
being an engineer, and engineerslike to make sense of the world
so I can, I can see that in you,also a recognition of what you
good at, and maybe things thatmaybe I'm not as good at, and
that's that's fine as well. Andthen taking a deeper look at
yourself that when you, andwe're going to go into some of
(07:43):
the content soon, and startingto realize that personal
relationships are a huge part ofhaving a good life, and then
actually, really go, hang on asecond. How many personal
relationships do I have? And amI investing, intentionally,
investing in thoserelationships? So what I'm
(08:03):
trying to reflect back to you,Bill, is I'm glad that you are
when you're doing the work,you're also looking in the
mirror yourself and going, Hey,hang on a second. Do I do that?
Is that what I'm hearing yeah?
Bill Zujewski (08:15):
Right. No, for sure. The other thing that I
struggle with, and I know thebuzzword is imposter syndrome,
but what I mean by that is like,I'm not Bill Gates or some you
know, famous person. Who am I totell others or suggest what a
good life actually is? So I, atfirst, I had some doubts, and
(08:39):
maybe, not the confidence to dothis. But then I started
thinking about, well, wait asecond, you know, I've got four
kids now who love me, who are intheir 20s. Have I've launched
them into the world, andthey're, they're so far so good.
I have a couple homes. I have anamazing partner and wife, and
(09:01):
I'm very happy. So maybe I dohave some formula or wisdom here
to share. So that was anotherthing that that actually turned
out to be fine, but at first itwas a little bit of a struggle.
Mick Spiers (09:14):
Yeah, there's, there's a couple of elements
there as well, Bill, yeah, soyou're not Bill Gates, but
that's completely fine. You're,Bill zajuski And you're the best
Bill sajewski, you can be thebest one out there, right? But
also, there's a little bit I'mpicking up there about the
comparison syndrome is you don'thave to compare yourself to Bill
Gates. You don't have to compareyourself to anyone. You look at
(09:34):
yourself and go, compareyourself to you, compare
yourself to the you that youwould be proud to be. And can I
share something from my lifethat would be meaningful to
others? And that's what I seethat you've done here. So what
did what did you learn abouthappiness? You did a lot of
research in this book. What didyou learn about, I'm going to
say, some of the misconceptionsabout what makes us happy?
Bill Zujewski (09:57):
Yeah, no, obviously. And this differs
around the world and but in theUnited States, there's no doubt
of that. You know, wealth is theonly real metric and indicator
that people think of when theythink of is this person
successful or not? Amazingly, Ihad dinner a couple years ago
(10:19):
with a head of people fromIreland, and she was new to the
United States, and she's like,she's shocked at how centric we
are around that wealth andcareer and that in Ireland, a
better indicator is how great ofa father and family man, what
you've done to raise your kidsand family. That's a better
measure of success. But onething I've learned about
(10:42):
happiness, though, and it'sbacked by science. In fact,
there's a book, coincidentallycalled good life, by two Harvard
professors who studied 3000families over 80 years, looking
at what attributes of a person'slife led to the most happiness,
fulfillment and longevity andhow long they lived, and it
wasn't even close, Mick, it wasrelationships in the end, in the
(11:06):
last 1020, 30 years, it was likeWho was your partner, who was
the family around you, who werethe friends around you, and that
easily mapped to maybe 10 moreyears of living healthy than
wealth and where you lived anddiet. So to me, in fact, I have
(11:27):
the two eyes in good life. Whenthis company makes it to the
next level, I'm going to makenew logo where those two eyes
are actually two people, becauseI think relationships is
probably the most importantindicator and driver of
happiness.
Mick Spiers (11:42):
You're really good, Bill. So what you're picking up
here is around societalexpectations, and how do we
measure success? Do we measuresuccess by the way society
measures success? Or are wemeasuring success by what really
makes us happy? And I doencourage people listening to
the show. If you research someof these happiness studies,
(12:04):
whether you know Harvard, YaleMartin Seligman, does incredible
work in this space, if youresearch it, you'll be surprised
that the indicator that we lookat someone and go, Oh, wow, look
at them. They're so successful.
That's not the indicators thatend up in these studies to show
that what really driveshappiness, and in fact, it can
be counterintuitive. So let's,let's pick the wealth one. And
(12:27):
you and I were talking aboutthis before we started the show
the wealth one. There's neverenough. There's never enough.
Like if beyond getting to thepoint where you can cover your
basic needs, you can pay yourbills and put food on the table
and shelter over your head,wealth actually becomes
addictive, and you're alwaysstriving for more, and you're
(12:47):
never happy with what you'vegot, and it drives comparison
syndrome, and comparison is thethief of joy. So you start
going, well, you know, I'mearning this much, but the
person next to me is earning 10kmore than me. Now, if you had to
pull the person aside and say,Oh, wow, you know you're earning
$100,000 are you happy withthat? They might have said yes,
until I found out the personnext to them is getting 110,000
(13:09):
all of a sudden they're unhappy.
So it's not money that's makingus happy. It's not money. Isn't
right?
Bill Zujewski (13:17):
No, no, no, there's and there's a lot of
reading I've done, and this is abig actually trend around the
world, I think, trying to becomemore mindful of yourself, right,
and conscious of your thoughtsand everything. But there's this
primitive mind. There's thismillion years of evolution that
where we're wired for some ofthese things, right to to want
(13:40):
more. No matter what we have, wewant more. We want to be the
best in the group, the biggestin the group, the strongest,
right? And we're all and then wehave this whole ego that we've
evolved, and sometimes that egois our biggest nemesis, you
know, telling us that, you know,same thing, you know, we have to
(14:00):
have the what our neighbor has,and it compares what we have to
what you know others have. Andyou've got to almost pause and
think about, you know, is thatyour ego talking, or your your
true self, you really have totry to capture all the
emotional, primitive mind stuff,try to move to a kind of a
(14:23):
higher mind that's more Kinder,giving back to society, giving
back to people and things likethat. So that's what I've tried
to do now, and been able to do alittle bit.
Mick Spiers (14:36):
All right, really good. So we've covered that
wealth is not the answer andmaterial pursuits, because
there's always a bigger car, abigger house, there's always a
bigger paycheck, and if we justkeep on pursuing that, we'll
never reach in fact, the targetgets even further away as we try
to pursue those things. Okay, solet's get into what the
(14:57):
indicators are. So I doencourage everyone to. Get a
copy of the book and to get acopy of the app, and start
following some of these. I'vedone the Zen score myself.
Haven't yet done the life score,but to follow these things, and
you'll start seeing theindicators of where you could
actually start to get good atlife. But over to you, Bill,
(15:17):
you've got a really greatacronym here that can help us to
look at where we should lookyeah.
Bill Zujewski (15:24):
Yeah. So, I mean, I should tell everyone, if I
haven't already, I've been inmarketing most of my career, so
you have to try to create eithera concept or some way, you know,
a mental anchor to rememberthings. And I came up with help
grow. Now, when I started mylittle personal scorecard, the
(15:46):
spreadsheet that I used, youknow, it didn't spell help grow,
but I saw the letters wereclose, but actually let me go
through them, help grow, H, theH in help for health, E for
environment, L for leisure, Pfor purpose. So that's the help
part. And then grow is aroundgrowth, the G, R relationships,
(16:09):
O, occupation and W is wealth.
And those are really the eightmajor things that I try to pay
attention to and make surethey're all aligned, that I'm
not overly consumed in one areaand jeopardizing the the other
areas, right? So those are,those are the eight categories.
Mick Spiers (16:31):
Yeah, really good Bill, and we're going to unpack
it one at a time in a moment.
But you used the word companyscorecard before and I and in
the book, you talk about apersonal balance scorecard. And
what I'm hearing from you here,it's not about wow, I scored 100
in health, but my my leisure iszero, or I scored, you know, 20
on purpose. But it's okay,because everything else is 100
(16:54):
to me, it's the balance thatwe're that we're looking for
here. So by looking through thenwe can identify, Okay, well,
okay, I'm a little bit lackingin the following categories. And
if I want to be good at life, Ineed to be more balanced in
those things. Is what I'm takingaway there.
Bill Zujewski (17:12):
Yeah. And just to be clear with the listeners,
because a lot of people now,when I talk about this notion of
balance, they jump right to thesimpler model of work and non
work, like there's two worlds,and that's not what I'm talking
about here. I'm talking actuallyabout balance and alignment
across all the most importantaspects of a life, right? Your
(17:35):
Health, spending time on that,your home, making sure you have
a home you enjoy, taking timeleisure, right? Taking time to
have fun in life. What wouldlife be without having some
pleasure in it, right? And thenhaving purpose? You know,
there's a, there's a spiritualpart of life as well. And then
the relationships part is soimportant. If you had, you know,
(17:57):
all this wealth, but no one toshare it with, what's the point?
You know, if you don't have therelationships, and then you know
your career obviously pays thebills, so that's still important
and gives you some fulfillment.
And you do need some moneyaround wrong well, so when I
talk about balance, I'm talkingabout across all those eight
categories, and what happens is,if you ignore one or two or
(18:17):
three, it starts to spill overinto causing issues and stress
and anxiety in, you know, inother parts of your life. So
it's all interconnected.
Mick Spiers (18:31):
Yeah. Really good bill, okay, so let's go through
them relatively quickly on eachone and give some indicators of
what good would look like andwhat not so good would look
like, and what people could do,you know, maybe some actions,
if, if they look at this andthey listening to the show, and
they look in the mirror and go,yeah, right, that's that's not
me, what they could do about it.
So, what does good health looklike to you, Bill?
Bill Zujewski (18:56):
Sure, sure. And the scores, actually, there's
two scores, the Zen score, ittakes a minute, and it tells
you, how do you feel about yourhealth, right? And that's one
question, and you score yourselfzero to 10. But then in the life
score, it scores you about youractions and what you're doing.
So it will go ahead and ask youa question, you know, do you
(19:17):
have a nutrient rich diet withwhole foods and lean proteins,
you know. So what's your diet?
Do you smoke? You know, how muchalcohol do you consume? Do you
get the you know, at least sevenhours of sleep. Do you do cardio
exercise at least three times aweek? Do you hydrate regularly?
You know? Do you do somestrength training, right? So
those are the physical aspects,and then on mental aspects, it
(19:37):
talks about, do you setboundaries? Do you do some
mindfulness and self reflection?
Right? So what I, what I've,what I've tried to do, is I'm
not telling people how to livetheir lives. But there's,
there's science and researchthat says you do these things
best practices, you'll have ahealthier life, you'll have more
(19:59):
energy. You. Live longer. Youwon't have, you know, some of
the chronic diseases that startwith kind of your your habits
around what you eat and what youdo. So people can debate that
everyone's different, but Iwould debate that there is kind
of a foundational playbook forhaving a healthy life.
Mick Spiers (20:17):
All right, really, really good Bill, so I'm going
to share a few things as as wego, all right, but I'm going to
interject here with an importantthing of the way I looked, and I
picked this up from the book,and I hope I've done it the
right way, by the way, but Ipicked this up as a thread
through the book. When I wasgiving myself the scores, I was
also coming from a place ofgratitude, right? So I wasn't
(20:38):
just focusing on what I don'thave. I was focusing on being
happy with what I do. Have beenno, not happy, grateful, being
grateful for what I do have,instead of just focusing on what
I don't have. So I'm going togive you my scores as we, as we
go through this and reflect onwhat I was thinking. So health
was not great for me. I putmyself as a seven. I could have
(21:01):
easily put it as a six, a fiveor a four, but I am grateful
that I'm not in hospital. Idon't have a chronic illness. Am
I happy with my level of fitnessand my overall health? No, I've
got a few problems, and I'vebeen at the doctor recently and
had a few things that I've hadto, had to check up. So am I in,
(21:22):
you know, physical fitness? No,but am I grateful that I am not
chronically ill? Yes, so I gavemyself a seven. How does that
like? I'm trying to do this inreal time with you. How does
that sit with you in terms ofthe way I did it?
Bill Zujewski (21:36):
Yeah, no, that's perfect, right? So a seven is
acceptable. You know, it's funnywhen people that can't help but
go to the grading system, right?
I mean, that's what we'retaught. So at least in the US,
your, you know, your scores inthe 70s, and you're giving
yourself a C, so that's aindicator to, you know, in this,
in the app and in the book, thatyou're doing okay, but there's
(21:58):
room for improvement. If youwere three or four, like, then
you'd be saying yourself, oh mygosh, like you're you're scared
you might die or have a heartattack, or you don't have the
energy or capability to dothings you want in life. So you
know that would probably havecome across like a two or three,
a seven says there's no reasonto panic, but, you know, I think
(22:21):
I gave myself a six, and I'mpretty healthy, but I know it's
such an important part of lifethat I need to lose, you know,
the 1015, pounds, and not behuffing and puffing when I'm
walking upstairs. So I'm nothappy, even though I'm grateful.
I'm pretty healthy guy inperson. I have room to work with
(22:42):
there.
Mick Spiers (22:45):
Yeah, good. And this is where I'm going to go
with this is this is going to beone of the indicators I'm going
to work on after having donethis exercise bill. But it's the
same kind of thing. I want to behealthy so I can do the things
that I enjoy, with my kids, withmy wife, with my friends, etc.
If you're not healthy, itimpacts your ability to do some
of the other categories thatwe're going to talk about. Yeah,
(23:07):
really good.
Bill Zujewski (23:08):
It's a coincidence, but it's H is the
first letter it all starts. Youcan't do anything else unless
you're up and out of bed andhealthy and, you know, living.
Mick Spiers (23:19):
All right, okay, so E is environment. What does a
good environment look like toyou, Bill?
Bill Zujewski (23:25):
Yeah, and to me, that's the home, and I take
pride in my home, but what Italk about here is having
somewhere you can relax, you canrecharge, you can entertain
friends to come over like youspend a big chunk of your life
at home, right? And so I knowfor my wife and I, we just built
(23:49):
the house because we wanted wewere the sun was on the wrong
side. Our house was so dark wewere in the middle of the woods.
We just needed a new locationwhere we had more light in our
life and a view. So one of myour goals, and, you know, I'm a
big believer you can design thelife you want. We've been
looking for 20 years and savingtowards, you know, finding the
(24:12):
lot and building the house thatwould give us a place we would,
you know, call home for the restof our lives, because it's such
an important part of life, andthen where it's located, the
weather, the commute, access tohealth. Can you go out for a
walk and, you know, parks, youknow, so your home is a critical
(24:32):
aspect of whether you're goingto be happy or not.
Mick Spiers (24:35):
Yeah, really good.
Bill. All right, so here we goagain. I'm going to show you. I
scored myself an eight here. I'mgrateful for what I have, but
then I'm also aware of whenenvironment impacts me. So let
me give some examples here, andI'm going to give some workplace
and some home examples. Reallysilly one, I'd say nine times
out of 10 I love my home and myfamily and everything that we've
(24:56):
got around here. And thenthere's the occasional. Time
where I'll walk into the livingroom and realize I didn't fold
the laundry. The laundry isstill sitting there, kind of
thing. And it's kind of whatcould have been a I'm going to,
you know, relax now, etc, etc.
It's kind of, no, I can't relaxbecause I didn't fold the
laundry, kind of situation. ButI'm still grateful that I've got
(25:20):
a nice house with roof over myhead, and I've got a comfortable
life when it comes to thecommute. I found that one really
interesting when I was readingthe book. I can tell you when I
drive my car to work and where Ilive and where I go to work. The
traffic the car traffic ishorrendous. It can take me up to
(25:40):
two hours, and it is extremelystressful. So what do I do? I
take an intentional action. WhenI catch the train. I love the
commute. I look out the windowand watch the world go past, or
if I ride my bike, even better,because then I'm working on my
health as well. I enjoy thecommute. And then the same thing
in the workplace. And this is abig one for leaders. We want to
(26:01):
create an environment wherepeople want to come to work,
right? So it's an and now I'mtalking the physical
environment, but also the mentalenvironment, that it's not a
toxic place, that it's a placewhere people treat each other
well and treat each other withrespect. So the environment one
I did give myself an aid, Ithink I've got it in good stead,
but you can still see therewhere I can take some
(26:22):
intentional actions to avoid thethings that would make it worse.
Does that make sense?
Bill Zujewski (26:28):
Right, yeah, 100% and so let me tell you what, how
this would have played out in myapp. So you would have gave
yourself an eight in your zenscore, how you feel about, you
know, your environment. But ifyou went in and then try to did
the life score assessment,there's 10 questions around the
home environment, and one of thequestions is, you know, Rate
(26:51):
yourself zero to 10 in thisquestion, I maintain a clean,
clutter free and organized homeenvironment, right? And if you
didn't, it'd be a wake up callthat some of that is, yeah,
creating some overhead ofthinking about, you know, all
the things you have to do aroundthe house before you can relax.
And then the other one, theother question, one of the other
(27:12):
two of the 10 questions was mycommute or work setup supports
balance and minimizes stress,right? So you probably would
have scored yourself low thereand again, that would have been
telling you maybe, maybe you gotto think about changing my
commute or doing something onit, but that it was a, you know,
an indicator that you weren't,you know, doing the best in that
(27:35):
area.
Mick Spiers (27:36):
Yeah, really. Good, Bill. Okay, excellent. So L is
leisure, or leisure for you. Andpronunciations are interesting.
So leisure or leisure? So, yeah,tell us. What do you think are
the key things here of wherepeople get it right and here
where, where people just get itwrong when it comes to leisure?
Bill Zujewski (27:55):
Yeah. So I think people think of leisure as maybe
simplify, oversimplified as Itake vacation, right? There's
actually, there's 10 areas inyour life. Score for leisure
that I've I've identified. Itstarts with your having some
kind of hobby or interest,whether it's painting or
(28:16):
gardening or playing aninstrument, and then having
outdoor activities, having somemindfulness and rest,
socializing with friends, doingsome digital detox, listening to
music, maybe doing some selfcare or spa, and then having fun
and playing and doing somesocialization like Those are the
(28:37):
10 questions around leisure andpeople who do those kinds of
things help seem to be fresher,happier, right, more optimistic
and really having some pleasurein the life to balance the times
where they're working hard. It'sthe fruit for the labor, right?
Mick Spiers (28:59):
Yeah, really good.
So I'm going to be open here andsay I gave myself a nine. Now
the word is, now I can look atparts of my life where this
would have been a one or twoBill seriously workaholic
tendencies. And, you know, Iwould have scored like, come
back to the word balance. Iwould have scored big scores in
other areas. And this would havebeen really low at different
(29:20):
parts of my life, but, but now Ido intentionally carve out time
i I've now, you know, I playgolf, I play tennis, I spend
quality time with my family andand when I do when I'm spending
time with my son, I put my myphone away, and I am completely
present with him, and getcompletely mindful and in the
(29:40):
moment, and that's when therichness of that experience
comes, instead of beingdistracted, etc, and that's
going to impact some of theothers.
Bill Zujewski (29:49):
Yeah, I could tell you a quick, quick story,
and believe me, I count myblessings, and I'm so grateful I
was able to do this. But youknow, a couple of my companies
have been a COVID. Fired once,twice by Oracle, actually in
2016 PTC acquired exceeda, and Iwas cmo there, and I actually
took a whole year and a halfoff. Mick, I took a sabbatical,
(30:13):
and my kids were middle school,two in high school, I coached a
basketball, baseball it was likea retirement in the middle of my
career. And my rationale, itwas, geez, I still have all this
energy and my kids at home. Youknow, when I'm retired, it's
just going to be me. I couldwork hard then. So I did end up
(30:37):
going back, because I was kindof warned that, because I always
intended to go back, but that ifI stayed too far, you know, into
my sabbatical, that people wouldnot hire me because they think
there'd be a stigma that I lostthe fire to, you know, work, so
I ended up, you know, endingthat, but it was a fun time.
Mick Spiers (30:56):
Yeah, really good.
Okay, all right. So very good onleisure. Let's make sure that we
are carving out time, and we're,we're doing that, alright, gotta
hit all the letters Yes, yeah,exactly. Alright. Let's get to
purpose. Tell us about we've,we've discussed this on the show
a lot, but I want to hear fromyou, Bill, tell us about the
power of purpose.
Bill Zujewski (31:16):
Yeah, and purpose, purpose will change at
through your life, cycle of yourlife, right? And your your your
20s. There's nothing wrong withactually career being your
purpose. You've got to build afoundation to build a life
around and get money home. Ithink as you become a leader the
company you're creating, it'sfine for that to to become, you
(31:41):
know your your purpose again,you're creating jobs for people
so so that that becomes aninteresting purpose for me. One
of the biggest joys and proudpoints for me is that time where
I was building my family andraising four kids that got me
out of bed when, you know, at6am knowing that I was I wanted
(32:04):
to pay for college for all ofthem. I wanted to take them on
vacations every year. And myfamily gave me amazing purpose.
And now I'm in a position whereI think my purpose is, you know,
grander like, Boy, I've learnedso much. How could I life is so
hard. How could I help more andmore people with dealing with
(32:25):
the complexity and difficultiesof life and trying to trying to
do it that way? So there's a lotof elements, but I'm a big
believer in, you know, havingsome purpose that drives you a
super healthy and supermotivating.
Mick Spiers (32:43):
Yeah, really good, Bill. And I'm going to say here
I scored myself a 10. Here, I'ma very purpose driven person. I
did the work. I did the work towork out. Well, one of my
purposes, I have three. One ofmy purposes dawned on me through
a realization 2005 so quitealmost 20 years ago, it was a
very distinct activity that ledto that. And then the rest I've
(33:06):
done the work to go, Okay, whatdoes bring me joy? Like, what
are the things that I enjoy? Buthow is it impactful on the world
and impactful for other humanbeings? And and purpose is
generally at the bottom of theservice of other human beings,
but the intersection ofsomething that you're good at,
something that you enjoy doing,but it means something, it means
something to others and helpingothers. So I did give myself a
(33:29):
10 here for the audience. Wehave covered this on the show
before, but I encourage you, ifyou're still struggling with
purpose, there are exercisesthat you can do. You can look at
the work of Zach Mercuri, hours,examples to go and find your
purpose. There is ways, ifyou're feeling lost, this is one
that you can invest in. Allright, tell me about growth.
Bill Zujewski (33:49):
So growth is, I think again, it's a ingrained in
being a human right. If we'renot growing, we're dying and and
some of the happiest and mostsuccessful people are lifelong
learners. And I've tried toinstill that in my kids. I've
(34:10):
been pretty lucky. It's justnatural. We just love learning,
consuming knowledge. And I thinkanother part of human nature is
just being better, being thebest self person we could so I'm
always trying to extend myself,challenge myself, learn as much
as I can, and then I have alittle secret. So a little hack,
(34:33):
not a hack, but a little guidingprinciple in my life that I
think is one of the simplestdefinitions of happiness for me
is if I set goals and are makingprogress. To me, progress equals
happiness. I feel the best whena day goes by and I've done
something, you know, when I,when I, when I get to bed and I
(34:55):
look back and I wasted a day, Ifeel like nauseous and
miserable, like. Oh, my God. Imean, no progress on anything.
So I think progress is superimportant part of life.
Mick Spiers (35:07):
Yeah, like this, and I can see how progress and
growth going hand in hand.
Absolutely, on this one, Iscored myself a 10 as well. I
study every day. I studypsychology. I'm an engineer as
well. Bill and why? Why I nowstudy psychology I certainly
didn't when I was younger, is Itry to make rational sense of an
sometimes irrational world. So Istudy psychology every day. And
(35:28):
the other little gift I have isthat I get to do this podcast,
and by the time this episodegoes to air, we'll be up to
episode 270, something. I get tosit down in front of people like
Bill zajewski and and learnwonderful things. So I feel very
blessed when it comes to growthinteresting around the progress.
I don't know that I've takenthat into account when I've
(35:51):
given myself a high score. Soyeah, the progress is one for me
to maybe take a look at for theaudience. Ask yourself that,
when was the last time? And someof you probably do do this all
the time, but ask yourself thehard question, look yourself in
the mirror and go, when was thelast time you invested in your
own growth? When was the lasttime you learned something new
intentionally? And how are youmeasuring your progress? So I
(36:14):
think this is one for all of usto look at the growth. All
right. R for relationships,Bill, tell us what this looks
like, and why is it important?
Bill Zujewski (36:25):
Yeah, I talked a little bit about all the studies
that how it's one of this bestcorrelations your relationships
to whether you're going to behappy and healthy. But people
don't. People think they justhappen happenstance, and you
actually have to understand whata good relationship takes and
(36:46):
invest in building thoserelationships. And I think I
mentioned this to you, like, ifyou didn't have other people to
share everything in your life,your joy, your assets, your
home, your vacations with, like,what would be the purpose of
life alone on an island, right?
So I think, I thinkrelationships is naturally
important, but in my life,score, the questions are, you
(37:07):
know, there's like 15 of them. Imean, there's around effective
communication. I communicatehonestly and openly, right?
Empathy, I show empathy andunderstand when to put others
needs first, right? I spendquality time with my family and
friends, with important,important people, right? I
(37:28):
express love regularly, right? Ihave a social circle of friends
I can relax with. I I'm verygrateful and celebrate, you
know, with other people. And so,I mean there, there's like, I
said, that's just off the top ofmy head, some of them, but
there's a nice list of like, Iguess, best practices to improve
(37:49):
the relationships you have inyour life around you.
Mick Spiers (37:55):
So yeah, you're right. The studies keep on
showing this one time and timeagain, the the richness of our
relationships is actually whatis the bigger indicator of of
happiness than anything else,and if we're we're not investing
that time, it's going to be atour detriment. For sure, the
gratitude for other humanbeings, the service of other
(38:15):
human beings, the connectionwith other human beings is where
all this lives now. Here is onethat I'm going to have to
rescore this bill, to be honest.
So when I did it, I first gavemyself a 10, and that was purely
based on the relationship withmy wife, which is an amazing
one, one that I'm grateful forevery single day Mart. When I
look deeper and I listen to youtoday, I've let slip the
(38:39):
personal relationships of longstanding friends that I haven't
spoken to in a long time, andthose friendships are strong
enough that I know that if Irang them today, that we would
reconnect in an instant. But thetruth is, I've unintentionally
let those slip. So I need totake an intentional action to
(39:01):
reach out to those people andsay hello and check in how you
doing, and show them that I thatI care for them. And so this
will be an action that I'll takeas a result of today's
conversation so.
Bill Zujewski (39:15):
I'm glad I had a little bit of impact on you.
Mick, right? That's awesome. Alot of times people, when
they're they feel like stuck or,you know, disconnected, you
know, revisiting some of thefriendships they have can kind
of remind them of the importantthings of life and get them out
of that rut that they're in. Sothere's also an expression you
(39:37):
are, who your friends are,right? So it's, it really, it
really is true. I look closelyat my four kids circles and make
sure they're in the rightcircle, because that circle of
people will have a hugeinfluence in defining who they
are.
Mick Spiers (39:55):
Yeah. Really good.
Okay, all right, very good. Solet's go on to always about.
Occupation. Where doesoccupation come in, Bill?
Bill Zujewski (40:03):
Well, first of all, I I found my ambition, you
know, manageable and sometimesvery fulfilling. You know, when
you're marketing and you hityour numbers, or when I was in
sales and I closed a newcustomer. I mean, maybe it's the
human nature competing andwinning. You know, I play team
sports, and that spilled overinto, you know, the career
(40:25):
choices I made. But it's alsowhere you meet people. It's also
where you spend so much time ofyour life. You want to be around
people you like, you get alongwith who are who are kind. So
you have to pay attention to,you know, the job you choose,
are you being paid fairly? Haveyou found an occupation that
(40:45):
that pays the bills and allowsyou what you allows you to do
what you want to do in life, interms of work life balance? So
occupation may not be the mostimportant, but it's pretty high
up there, and it's a prettyimportant aspect of life that
you need to self reflect around.
Are you at the right company?
Are you in the right career, youknow, and do you have, you know,
(41:09):
the right manager, all thosethings you've got to do a
checkpoint.
Mick Spiers (41:12):
Yeah, really good, Bill, so I gave myself an aid on
this one. I feel very lucky. Iget to do work where I feel
seen, I feel valued. I feelrespected. It's meaningful work
to me. So I gave myself aneight, but I didn't give myself
a 10, and I'll explain why everyjob has its frustrations, first
of all, but that's not what itwas. What I gave myself less
(41:33):
than 10 was because of purposealignment, to make sure that
what we do is aligned to ourpurpose, and where I find why I
didn't give myself a 10 is whereyou end up in elements of
bureaucracy, that there areelements of churn in your job
that aren't connected to yourpurpose. And I think if we can
(41:55):
get rid of some of thoseinefficiencies, you'd go home
feeling more proud that what youdid today was towards achieving
those that purpose and towardsthose goals. So I didn't give
myself a perfect score, but Ifeel very lucky in in occupation
I always have.
Bill Zujewski (42:13):
Yeah, and these scores, these scores, how you
feel about these areas, dochange. You know, year to year,
even month to month, or even dayto day. Sometimes, like, I have
times where, oh my god, I'm solucky to be have the freedom to
be running my own company, andbut then I have days or weeks
where, like, oh my gosh, I haveno income coming in for almost a
(42:34):
year now, trying to build thiscompany. And then what if I
fail? I've done so much good.
And then one of my legacy isactually a company that doesn't
make it. So there's challengeseven to, you know, you know, in
a in the occupation, that nevergoes away, for sure.
Mick Spiers (42:51):
Yeah, yeah. Really good. Okay, so once again,
people, you can reflect on this,have a think about in your
occupation. If you don't giveyourself a high score here, what
would you do differently? Andthat doesn't mean leave the job.
It means start with where you'reat and think about, well, what
little changes could you make,where your occupation could be,
something that has a high score,all right? And the final one is
(43:12):
wealth, and you put it last. Onpurpose, I know this, but it is
important that we at least haveenough money to meet needs,
right? To put food on the tableand put roof over the head. So
tell us more about wealth.
Bill Zujewski (43:25):
Right, right? So, clearly, clearly, like you said,
you want to have some sort ofincome that allows you to live
the life you you know, have avacation, pay the bills, have a
home you're comfortable in, buta lot of the strife and tension
and divorces are fights overmoney, and a lot of that has to
(43:51):
do with this materialistic worldand overspending or the ego. I
think one of my questions is Irefrain from impulse buying,
practice mindful spending andavoid expensive brand purchases
driven by my ego, right? So thatwould be like buying the $3,000
you know, Gucci or Prada bag orsomething or, right? There's
(44:15):
some, there's some stuff or ortrying to keep up with the
Joneses, and spending, you know,half your paycheck on your
monthly mortgage to pay for yourhome. Oh my gosh, you've just
created a stressful life foryourself where you could have
downsized and been just as happyin a smaller home and not
created all all this tension. Soin the wealth score, you know,
(44:40):
I've documented you'll pay yourcredit card off every month. You
know, save 10% make sure yourmortgage is less than 25% of
your monthly pay. You know, havea balanced portfolio. Start
saving for retirement. Have abudget. Spend. You know, be
frugal. You know, all the bestpractices that people who have.
Financial house in order gothrough and do you.
Mick Spiers (45:03):
Really good, Bill.
So I gave myself a seven here,and the reason why it's not a 10
is I don't always make smartdecisions with my money. I can
stick my hand up on that one, sothat's where I need to do a bit
of work make smarter decisions.
But the reason why the score isso high now to go the other way
is I'm grateful for what I haveinstead of being worried about
(45:24):
what I don't have. Yeah, and I Ifeel lucky. I feel lucky that I
don't have to go live paycheckto paycheck. I have a balanced
view on the finances, but Istill don't always make the
smartest decisions.
Bill Zujewski (45:38):
I have a story that I love telling and it's,
you know, I've lost my parentsnow both, but you know, they
came over. I was the first born,and they came over in the 60s
from Poland, and my father wasmechanic, and my mom raised five
kids, and I didn't know it atthe time. I mean, we had a happy
(45:59):
household every weekend, Sundaydinner, friends over, we were
living paycheck to paycheck,like my father was scrambling,
taking on extra jobs to justmake sure he hit the mortgage
payment. None of that wasevident to me until I was like
20, 3040, years old, paying myown mortgage so you can, you can
be happy with without wealth,and I just saw it in my
(46:23):
household, and to me, it justwas a proof point that belief.
Mick Spiers (46:28):
Yeah, really good, Bill, all right, so I'm going to
bring us to towards a close nowand head towards our Rapid
Round. So I'm going to reflectagain to everyone and hold up
for those who are watching onthe video, hold up the book
again. Watch what's your lifescore? And this is about getting
your own life in order so youcan be a better leader, right?
And you can help others then aswell. If you, if you get some of
(46:48):
these categories in control,then you're in a position to
help your team and your lovedones, etc, to work on it as
well. So the help grow, health,environment, leisure, purpose,
growth, relationships,occupation, wealth. Have you got
these things in balance? And dothe score? Do the score in the
app, and it will tell you fromthe scores you give you go, Oh,
(47:10):
here we go. I need to work alittle bit more on health, or I
need to carve out time for moreleisure, or I need to reach out
and connect with more people.
You know, my my friends. Ihaven't connected with them for
a while. It's going to give yousome steers on where you could
act.
Bill Zujewski (47:26):
And by the way, by the way, Mick, by the way,
the happy employees for theleaders and executives out there
are more productive, less likelyto leave their job. All you
know, you know. So all thesethings, I hate to bring it up,
but they actually have strongbenefits for your company
culture.
Mick Spiers (47:45):
Absolutely, there's no doubt about that whatsoever,
all right. And then if you wantto take it a bit further, you
can do the life score element aswell, not not just the Zen
score, and it'll help you withsome more targeted questions on
where you might focus yourenergy to bring more balance in
your life. And yeah, it'shappiness. Is is not the pursuit
of happiness. It's not thepursuit of wealth. It's the
(48:06):
happiness of the pursuit. It'sabout growing every day. So
you'll do, you won't do thesescores. Just once you would,
you'd go back and see how youprogress as you go along.
Bill Zujewski (48:17):
Progress. There you go. You said it the key to
happiness.
Mick Spiers (48:22):
All right, brilliant, Bill, I've loved
this. I'm going to personallyput these things in action, and
I'm encouraging the audience todo so as well. Let's go to our
Rapid Round. These are the samefour questions we ask all of our
guests. Bill, so firstly, what'sthe one thing you know now? Bill
Zujewski that you wish you knewwhen you were 20?
Bill Zujewski (48:40):
Yeah. And again, I'm grateful for my
relationships with my kids, mywife and I have good friends,
but, you know, I sometimes amjealous, and I shouldn't be of
some of these best friends thatpeople have, and I look back, I
probably didn't invest enough,you know, building those super,
(49:04):
super close relationships withpeople earlier in life. You
know, it's one of those thingsthat no one ever actually taught
me. You don't learn in school.
You actually have to invest tobe a good friend.
Mick Spiers (49:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Well said, sir. All right,now, always a curious question
for authors, what's yourfavorite book?
Bill Zujewski (49:25):
Oh, you know, I don't I. I'm sad to say, I read
a lot of non fiction. I'll giveyou two. I'll give you one
fiction. Jeffrey Archer wrotethis book called Cain and Abel,
and just talked about thedichotomy of a overly ambitious,
greedy son versus a moreempathetic son, and how their
life's life's played out. Andthen I do like the tipping point
(49:51):
of Malcolm Gladwell, some a lotof Malcolm Gladwell stuff is
very, very well done.
Mick Spiers (49:58):
Yeah, all right.
Very good. And good suggestions.
Now I feel guilty asking youthis question, because the book
is full of impactful quotes.
What's your favorite quote?
Bill Zujewski (50:08):
Yeah, and I'm going to give you one that
wasn't in the book, so it's abonus. Yeah, it's a bonus. And
it was, and it's one I picked upa couple of years ago and from
Warren Buffett. So someone askedhim about what he would, how he
would qualify a good life, youknow, in a successful life, and
(50:29):
he says, you know, it's simple,the number of people that love
you in the end, that's it,right? That to him, that was the
KPI, KPI of life, that said tohim, whether you led a good life
or not, and it was a goodreflection. And I thought that
was a great way to look at life.
Mick Spiers (50:47):
Yeah, what? And what a great, great way to
summarize what we've beentalking about in today's
discussion as well. Bill, right?
And finally, how do people findyou? There's going to be people
listening to this. Hopefully.
They've been scoring themselvesa little bit in their head as
they go. But how do they findthe book? How do they find the
app? How do they find you, Bill?
Bill Zujewski (51:03):
Yeah, well, just screenshot this right now. If
you're watching because it's ajuice key, is the key. There's
not many of them. So if you justGoogle. Bill Zujewski, I'm the
only one. But go togoodlife.com. You know, with two
eyes, that's, that's you.
You'll, you'll see my story, mybook, my software and all that
LinkedIn, same thing. Connectwith me. I love connecting
people. DM me. And then if youwant to email me,
(51:26):
bill@goodlife.com and if you go
Mick Spiers (51:27):
All right, wonderful Bill, well, thank you
to Amazon and search onZujewski, there's only one book
written, what's your life scoreon Amazon? So that's the best
way to get a hold of me.
for sharing your wisdom for ustoday, and your very practical
book and your practical app. Itreally is something that's easy
(51:47):
for us all to do, but it'smeaningful. It's easy, but
meaningful, I encourage everyoneto do. So thank you so much.
Bill for sharing it with ustoday, and congratulations on
the success of getting it outthere, and what you're doing not
just to help yourself, but tohelp others, to get their life
in order and to be good at life.
Bill Zujewski (52:05):
That's my tagline. Thanks Mick, appreciate
it.
Mick Spiers (52:10):
What an amazing conversation with Bill Zujewski.
What if life really did comewith a scorecard, not to rank
you, but to remind you, to nudgeyou, to pause, to help you live
with intention instead ofinertia. Today, Bill gave us
more than a framework. He gaveus permission, permission to
stop running on autopilot,permission to check in with
(52:33):
ourselves, permission to designthe life we want before it
designs us. So here's yourreflection prompt for today.
What's your life score inhealth, in purpose, in joy, and
what's one small action youcould take today to improve it?
If this conversation resonatedwith you, please share it with
(52:55):
someone who's ready to reflecttoo. You never know who might be
silently struggling behind theirleadership title, and don't
forget to check out Bill's bookand The Good Life app. They're
both great companions on thejourney back to yourself. In the
next episode, we're going to bejoined by Jonathan Stutz, who
talks us about intentionalactions for inclusive
(53:19):
leadership. It.
Thank you for listening to TheLeadership Project
mickspiers.com a huge call outto Faris Sedek for his video
editing of all of our videocontent and to all of the team
at TLP. Joan Gozon, GeraldCalibo and my amazing wife Sei
Spiers, I could not do this showwithout you. Don't forget to
(53:42):
subscribe to The LeadershipProject YouTube channel, where
we bring you interesting videoseach and every week, and you can
follow us on social,particularly on LinkedIn,
Facebook and Instagram. Now, inthe meantime, please do take
care. Look out for each otherand join us on this journey as
we learn together and leadtogether.
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