September 23, 2025 • 54 mins
In this episode of The Leadership Project, host Mick welcomes Tamara Jackson, founder of Beacon Ship and the Beacon Show. They delve into how belief, resilience, and gratitude translate into everyday leadership, creating meaningful impact, and the integration of faith into the workplace.
Tamara shares her journey from a successful corporate career to entrepreneurship, inspired by a personal tragedy, emphasizing the importance of faith-driven decision making, and the GRASP framework (Gather, Reflect, Ask, Strategize, Proceed with Faith).
The episode underscores the significance of being a beacon of hope, aligning personal values with professional actions, and striving for significance over mere success.
🌐 Connect with Tamara:
• Website: https://beaconship.co/ and https://leadreviver.pro/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachtam/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebeaconship/
📚 You can purchase Tamara's book on Amazon:
• 265 Point: https://www.amazon.com/dp/149446537X/
✅ Follow The Leadership Project on your favourite podcast platform and listen to a new episode every week!
📝 Don’t forget to share your thoughts on the episode in the comments below.
🔔 Join us in our mission at The Leadership Project and learn more about our organisation here: https://linktr.ee/mickspiers
📕 You can purchase a copy of the Mick Spiers bestselling book "You're a Leader, Now What?" as an eBook or paperback at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09ZBKK8XV
If you would like a signed copy, please reach out to sei@mickspiers.com and we can arrange it for you too.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mick Spiers (00:01):
What do you truly stand for when no one's
watching? How do you lead withconviction without imposing your
beliefs on others? And if lifereminded you tomorrow that time
is short, would you be proud ofhow you're showing up today? In
today's episode, I'm joined byTamara Jackson, founder of
(00:21):
Beacon ship, and host of thebeacon Show. Today we explore
how belief, resilience andgratitude translate into
everyday leadership, whatauthentic, inclusive faith looks
like at work, and how to be abeacon for others amid pressure
and uncertainty. Thisconversation is about
courageously aligning your innercompass with your outer
(00:45):
leadership, without judgment,without dogma, and with a whole
lot of love and impact. Let'sdive in.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto The Leadership Project. I'm
greatly honored today to bejoined by Tamara Jackson. Tamara
is the founder of anorganization called Lead
Reviver, and after a successfulcorporate career, also the
(01:06):
founder of an organizationcalled beaconship, and the host
of the beacon show. And shelooks to help people combine
faith together with innovationand technology. And we're going
to talk a little bit about therole of faith in leadership.
Does it have a role? Does ithave a conflicting role with
looking to run a business, butit's also very important to a
(01:31):
lot of people their faith. Sothis is going to be a really
interesting conversation. Iinvite you to come into this
with an open mind and an openset of ears, and let's hear from
Tamara about this integration offaith into her leadership. So
Tamara, without any further ado,please say hello to the
audience. Tell us a little bitabout your background, but I'm
(01:52):
most interested to know whatinspired you to transition from
a very successful corporatecareer into founding beacon ship
and the bacon show?
Tamara Jackson (02:02):
Yeah. Thank you so much, Mick, for the
opportunity to be here and sharewith this audience. I know that.
I'm sure lots of people want tobe here, so I'm honored to be
able to spend time with you andyour community today. A little
bit about me as you've shared. Igrew up in the corporate space,
had a 25 year career infinancial services. Started out
(02:25):
very, very frontline associatetype of role. I was answering
the phone just trying to kind ofget my foot in the door. And I
was persistent, and over time, Iwas able to move up that ladder,
got the coveted VP title. Had apretty amazing career and
salary, but I did get to a pointabout halfway through my
(02:48):
experience in corporate where Istarted having the itch for
more, and maybe someone that iswatching or listening to us can
identify with that. Assuccessful as I was, I felt like
something was missing, that Iwanted to make an impact in a
different way. So actually, forhalf of my corporate career, I
was I would have what manypeople would describe as a side
hustle. So I had differentbusiness interests that I
(03:11):
pursued on the side. So was verydedicated to that corporate
career, but in evenings andweekends, where I could squeeze
in time, I would be working onother things. So there was a
part of me that always knew thatentrepreneurship was something
that I wanted to pursue fulltime, but the question for me
was, how and when? How do Itransition from corporate to
(03:33):
working full time, and then whatis the right timing? And because
I could not answer thatquestion. Mick, for so long, I
stayed I worked really longhours trying to fulfill my
corporate duties, and then Iwould stay up late into the
night and work most Saturdaystrying to make sure that my side
hustles for were successful. Somaybe someone that's that's
(03:55):
watching or listening to meright now can identify with
that. And the question that youasked, is a really important
one, and I love the word choice.
You said, what inspired me tostep out of that and work full
time in projects that I'mpassionate about, I think for
me. Mick, it was the realizationthat life is fragile. In 2022 my
mom was diagnosed with stagefour breast cancer, and the
(04:20):
doctor shared with us that there
was a 50 (04:23):
50, chance that she would be here a year from now.
So at that point, I literallyput everything on hold, my
corporate career, the sidehustles that I was juggling, and
I left Charlotte, NorthCarolina, went back to Richmond,
Virginia, where I grew up, and Iwent there to be with my mom, so
I spent that time with her. Sheended up not making it a full
(04:45):
year. She passed away about 10months later, but I'm so
grateful for that time that Igot to spend with her. We had
great conversations, lots oflaughs, and I have memories that
I will be able to carry with menow that I wouldn't have had. If
I could not have spent that timewith her, but at the same time,
Mick, what that time with hertaught me, and then the years
(05:08):
since that's happened, shepassed away in 2023 it's just
helped me to realize that thereare no guarantees, like you
don't know how much time youhave on the clock. And so what
inspired the decision to leavecorporate and to step into
entrepreneurship full time wasjust the realization that I had
these things that I wanted todo, and my ability to do them
(05:30):
while juggling the corporatecareer was going to be limited.
So I finally just came to thisrealization, there's no better
time than the present. I rippedthe band aid off and step full
time into entrepreneurship. Sobeacon ship really spoke to the
side of me that is very faithdriven, that wants to make an
impact in the businessmarketplace, not necessarily
(05:53):
behind a pulpit, but I wanted tobe to bring that faith lens into
the marketplace. And then the AIcompany lead Reviver is a
passion project of mine. I'vebeen using AI since 2021 long
before chatGPT and all the otherAI platforms that are now
mainstream. So I loved tinkeringwith AI. So when I figured out
(06:14):
that aI had the potential tosolve problems that solopreneurs
and small teams face every day,I knew it was something that I
wanted to be a part of so longanswer, but that's what inspired
me, and that's why I'm heretoday.
Mick Spiers (06:28):
Yeah, that's great, Tam. Look, first of all, sorry
for your loss, but I'm alsopleased to hear that you got to
spend those precious momentswith your mum in those last
moments, what was screaming outto me when I was listening to
you, first of all, theimpermanence of life, and we
forget this, that is actuallywhat makes life beautiful, and
(06:51):
to realize that we all havelimited time, whether that can
be a traumatic event or it couldbe just, you know, life is
impermanent. So so to thinkabout the choices that we make,
and for you, what I'm hearing isthat trauma in your life made
you stop and realize, well, hangon a second, what's really
important. And that leads meback to one of the first things
(07:13):
you said, is you, even beforethat trauma, you were looking in
your day job and you weresuccessful, but something was
missing, and you wanted more.
But what I heard is the morewasn't more money, a bigger
house, a bigger car, it wassomething else. So tell us more
about that. What was thesomething missing?
Tamara Jackson (07:36):
Yeah, so I think for me, Mick, and maybe others,
can identify with this. I knew Iwas making an impact in my role,
like I could look at, you know,the score cards that we were
evaluated against. I could lookat my annual review. So I knew I
was making a difference, but itwasn't making a difference in
the way that was most meaningfulto me, like I didn't have the
(07:58):
ability to see how people'slives were truly dream being
transformed through the workthat I did. I knew that we were
making the company more revenue.
I knew that we were becomingmore operationally efficient and
conceptually. I know that thatimpacts people, but I had a
desire to impact people on anheart and soul level, and I
(08:19):
wasn't really getting that andthe corporate career, and I
think that's what kept pullingme to these side hustle
projects, is I wanted to workwith people and really get in
the trenches with them and helpthem to grow and develop because
that had been so helpful to me.
I had so many people that camealong, both personally and
professionally, that mentoredme, that shared things with me,
(08:43):
that I wouldn't be the personthat I am today without them,
and I wanted to be a part ofhaving that same type of impact
on others.
Mick Spiers (08:52):
Really good, Tamara, I'm going to say there's
two words screaming in my head,impact and meaning. So bear with
me for a second. I'm going tosay to the audience, you can be
impactful in any job, in anycompany. But the question is, is
that impact meaningful? Is itmeaningful to you? Is it
something that you go home atthe end of the day proud of
(09:12):
going I made a difference today.
So impact? Yes, but meaningful,impact is where the difference
is made. Now tell me, Tam, I'mgoing to put you on the spot
here a little bit. How does itfeel? The difference between
impact and meaningful impact?
How does that feel?
Tamara Jackson (09:32):
Yeah, I think that that when you have impact,
but it's not meaningful to you.
And to your point, how we answerthat question is going to vary
from person to person, but whenit is meaningful impact you you
go to bed differently, like nowI'm able to go to bed and know,
listen, I planted some seeds,even if they haven't come to
(09:55):
fruition yet. I planted someseeds that. Can just imagine a
year from now, two years fromnow, five years from now, what
that's going to lead to. Andthere's a sense of satisfaction
from that that makes me, youknow, believe that even if I
hope I have more time, but evenif I left here today, I just
have this feeling like I gave itall that I could, I made all the
(10:19):
impact that I could make withthe time that I have, the
skills, the talents, theresources that I have when I
wasn't operating in the spacewhere it was truly meaningful.
It was just this, this void. Itwas this hollowness, is how it
would describe it to what I wasdoing is I knew that the, you
know, the all of the things thatpeople often hold up as success,
(10:43):
were there, but in my heart ofheart, I knew that there was
still a void, that there wasmore that I could do that I
wasn't doing. So that's how Iwould describe the difference
between the two.
Mick Spiers (10:56):
Yeah, really good, Tam. Now I'm going to illustrate
something with you here and say,like it meaningful impact is
different for for differentpeople. So I'm going to share my
meaningful impact the way that Iview it. So I've spent the
second half of my career in theurban mobility industry, so
railway signaling and traincontrol systems and all kinds of
(11:17):
things, and of obviously, I'vegot the Leadership Project is
also a huge inspiration andcalling for me as well. But when
I when I look at it, let's gowith the urban mobility world. I
could have impact by growing thebusiness, more revenue, more
sales, all this kind of stuff.
But what's more important to meis the impact that we have on
people's lives, that we create aworld where people can get to
(11:40):
and from work without delays,without disruptions, without
stress, and to get home safelyto their families at the end of
the day. That's the meaningfulimpact, the impact that we make
money along the way. That'shelpful because it fuels the the
impact. But the meaningfulimpact is the impact on people's
lives. And for the leadershipproject, it's got meaningful
(12:00):
impact is to remember thatpeople spend up to 1/3 of their
life in the workplace, soanything that we do to help
leaders to create a betterenvironment is enriching
people's lives, because they'renot going into stressful, toxic
workplaces. So I'm justillustrating that that that for
you, Tam, your meaningfulimpact, you're founded. But
(12:22):
anyone can find it, and itdoesn't even have to mean
changing jobs. You can find itwhere you are, depending on
where you are. You canpotentially find it where you
are. How does that sit with you,this meaningful impact? And
working out, what is the endresult of what I'm doing here,
not just the money and theresults, the end result?
Tamara Jackson (12:42):
Yeah, I think that ultimately, that's what
many of us are looking for,Mick, we're looking for
significance, like we want toknow that when we leave here,
the world is somehow differentand better, and so I think
that's what we are, whether werealize it or not. That's what
many of us are searching for isnot just success, but I want to
(13:06):
do something significant. I knowthat I'm here for a reason.
Every day that I think tomyself, every day that I wake
up, I mean, I'm still herebecause there must be more for
me to do. And I think we're onthis journey as leaders to
figure out what is, what doessignificance look like for me,
so that I have the satisfactionthat I have fulfilled. I love
(13:26):
the word that you used earlier,the calling that I have. I do
believe that we all have thatthere's lots of things that we
can do, but I believe that weall have a calling to fulfill,
and none of us wants to leavehere having not done that. And
so yeah, I'm tracking with you100%.
Mick Spiers (13:46):
There's so many great words that are coming from
this interview, Tam. Thank youso much. So first of all, I'm
gonna put this to the audience'squestions right now. Are you
being impactful? Is Questionone, that's fine, but is it
meaningful impact? And thenlisten to what tam just said,
don't just strive for success,strive for significance. And are
you leaving the world a betterplace behind you? And that world
(14:10):
can be your household, can beyour team, can be your
workplace, but are you leavingit in a better place than the
way that you found it and willpeople, it's almost like a
legacy this significance. Willpeople remember the impact that
that Tam Jackson had on thepeople that she intersected
with?
Tamara Jackson (14:30):
Yeah, that's really how I think about it.
Mick is all of this is about, atleast for me, in this season of
my life, it's about legacy, likeit's it's not. I mean, making
more money is great. Gettingaccolades is wonderful. It's
always great to be appreciatedand recognized. But at this
stage in my life, what is mostimportant to me is what I leave
(14:51):
behind. And it's not because Iwant specifically people to be
talking about me for years andyears and years i. After I leave
here, but it's more of theexample that my mom left for me.
So one of the things that Ireally took away from her
passing is how well people spokeabout the impact that she made
(15:13):
in their lives. I went to herold job, and people just were
flocking to me to tell theywanted to specifically tell me
stories about how my mom hadsupported them, how they had how
she had encouraged them. She wasreally big on goals, so she
would always ask people abouttheir goals and how they were
progressing towards it. Shefinancially gave to people that
(15:35):
you know were going back toschool and doing this and that,
and so it's more about that typeof experience, not because I
want my name in light, but Iwant people to when I leave
here, to be able to tell storiesof how something that I said,
something that I did, hopefully,through the work that we're
doing with the beacon, show thatsomething has made their life
(15:57):
better. And I believe that manyof us have a desire to leave
that same type of legacy.
Mick Spiers (16:04):
Yeah, I love it, Tamara, I'm gonna share with
you. I love the pride in yourvoice when you talk about your
mum, and what I hear is a leaderof significance and a leader
that had a meaningful impact onpeople around her, right So, and
that's exactly what we'retalking about now. That leads me
to what what's important to younow, you're you're a very much a
(16:25):
person of faith. Tell me whatfaith means to you and how it
intersects the way you show up?
Tamara Jackson (16:33):
Yeah. So for me, faith is believing in more than
what you see. That's thesimplest way that that I could
describe it, because the realityof life, Mick and everyone that
is that is watching andlistening to us is life has ups
and downs. I talked about, verytransparently, one of the lowest
(16:53):
lows that I have experienced inmy 51 years. And what has
enabled me to weather that andother storms is my faith. It's
helping me to see that the waythings are is not the way they
will always be, that there ishope for tomorrow, even if today
is really, really challenging,and even on the on the flip side
(17:14):
of that, when things are really,really amazing, it gives you a
sense of gratitude, of like,Hey, listen, I know what it's
like to have those Valleymoments. I'm so grateful that I
was blessed to be in this spacein this time. So faith is my
rock. It's what steadies me. Itwhat's it's what keeps me
hopeful. It's when all elsefails. It is what I hold on
(17:38):
onto. So how does that impacthow I show up in the world? I
think most people that that knowme on a one to one basis know
that my faith is important to mebecause it it oozes through
honestly through, you know how Ishow up, the conversations that
I have and don't have, thethings that I want to be a part
(18:00):
of and don't want to be a partof, because for me, faith is
kind of the guide to my decisionmaking. That's something that
I've really, really leaned intomore and more, is letting faith
lead when it comes down tomaking decisions, and even in
instances where all the optionsseem to be good options, one of
the things that I've learned isthat there is still a difference
(18:23):
between following the path thatis laid out for you and
following a path that canultimately look good but lead
you down the wrong place. Sofaith shows up in every aspect
of how I show up, how I lead,how I run both businesses.
Beacon ship is very faithforward. Lead Reviver is faith
(18:44):
driven, like I bring the valuesthat I believe in into the work
that we do, but we don't leadwith faith in that space. But it
doesn't change that the internaloperating principles that I use
and the people that I'm blessedto work alongside, we still show
up with those same values inboth spaces. So that's my
(19:06):
thought on how I would answerthat question.
Mick Spiers (19:08):
Really good, Tam I'm going to share three words
that are ringing in my head whenI hear you, the word belief, the
word resilience and the wordgratitude. So first of all, the
word belief, or what I'm hearinghere, and we can even just use
Henry Ford here. You know,whether you believe you can or
you can't, you're probablyright. So without some kind of
(19:30):
belief, you're really limitingyour your chance of being
successful in whatever that inendeavor was going to be. Then
the resilience that this tooshall pass. If you're going
through tough times, this tooshall pass. But if you're going
through good times, guess what?
This too shall pass, so.
Tamara Jackson (19:49):
That's going to pass too, yeah? That's true.
Mick Spiers (19:52):
Yeah. So be careful. So be careful and and
then there's the gratitude thatwhen you've. Taken notice of the
bad times. You can be verygrateful for the good times and
grateful for what you do haveinstead of being, I'm going to
say, upset about what you don'thave. So be grateful for what
you do have instead of beingupset for what you don't have.
(20:14):
And that's what can drive youforward. How does the three
words sit with you? The belief,the resilience, the gratitude?
Tamara Jackson (20:23):
I think that if we can hold on to those three
things, Mick, we will, we willbe doing great, right? Because
those three things are what, inmy opinion, allow us to stay
optimistic about our personallives and the world that we live
in. The reality is, it's notjust, you know, even though
sometimes it seems that way,Mick, it's just us on an island,
(20:45):
the reality is that we're also apart of this bigger world. So
even when things are going wellfor me, there can be challenges
in my family, in my community,there can be challenges in the
country that I live in, or forthose that have a heart for
others that even aren't in thesame country, you know, you can
look at the news, you can seethe tragedy and the trauma that
(21:07):
others are experiencing. Sothings can be really, really
good for me, but not be good forothers and vice versa. It is
that belief, that resilience andthat gratitude that allows us to
stay anchored in both scenarios,believing that things can get
better, that not just in ourhuman resilience, but in the
(21:29):
resilience of people incommunities, in nations, to be
able to survive these things andgratitude, gratitude for when
things are going Well for us,and you know, it's our season to
kind of shine and to feel thatsignificance and success, but
also gratitude, that I hopethose that are really embracing
(21:52):
that title of leaders, gratitudeto be in a position where you
can help others. So one of thethings that I try to focus on is
whether things are good for meor not. How can I focus on the
positive? What is it that Istill am really blessed in
whether that's time, whetherthat's money, whether it is
encouragement, just being ableto say something to someone that
(22:15):
can help them? How can I letlive in gratitude and allow some
of my blessings to overflow toother people. So that's how I
think about the three words thatyou've highlighted here.
Mick Spiers (22:28):
Yeah, I love that, Tam, and it's very, very much
from a service point of view.
And to be a beacon, I'm going touse your word to be a beacon. If
you're able to do that, you canbe a beacon for others. They
might be going through toughtimes themselves, and you might
be the very person that theyneeded in their life right now,
if you're able to show up withthat belief, with the
(22:48):
resilience, with the gratitude,but also to be able to your
gifts might be the very giftsthat someone else is is waiting
on. That's really interesting.
Tam, alright, so I want to godeeper into into faith on two
things. The second one is goingto be about the faith based
decision making. But before weget there, when I heard you talk
(23:10):
about faith, I was listeningvery carefully, and I didn't,
and I know that you're aChristian, I didn't hear the
word God Jesus anywhere there. Iheard a lot about belief,
resilience, gratitude, that wespoke about about values. I
heard a lot about values. Ididn't hear a lot about specific
religion. Now, why am I bringingthis up? I'm going to tell you
(23:32):
that when people hear the wordfaith based leadership, I can
tell you that half the audienceare going to be sitting up in
their chair going, Yeah, I'm I'ma person of faith. Tell me more.
How do I how can I bring myfaith into my leadership, and
then half the audience are goingto be going, Oh, please don't
impose your religious beliefs onme. How do you balance that,
(23:55):
Tam, how do you balance that,that you are a Christian and you
you have your religious beliefs,but that's not what I heard when
you said about faith basedleadership. How do you balance
that some people are going tohave the same religious beliefs
of you and some are notreligious at all, or have
different religious beliefs?
Tamara Jackson (24:14):
Yeah, it's a really great question, and I
think it's it's probably onethat many people, especially the
group that you described, thefirst group that you described,
they're like, Yeah, I'm allabout faith based leadership.
They've probably struggled withthat tension before. I can think
about many times in my journeywhere I was in situations where
(24:34):
people made me feel like I hadto choose, and something inside
of me just didn't sit well withme. I just didn't like the idea
that in order to be successful,I had to put my beliefs on the
shelf. But it did challenge,challenge me, Mick to say, okay,
not everyone has the samereligious beliefs that I have.
(24:56):
Not everyone believes in God,not everyone believes in Jesus.
And. Is me shouting from therooftops that I'm a Christian,
the most important thing as afaith driven leader, and my
answer to that, believe it ornot, is no. Because when I think
about the example for those thatdo follow Christianity, the goal
(25:16):
was not to shout from therooftops who I am. It was about
meeting people where they werehaving relationship with them,
and through that relationship,you got to know one another. The
love was felt in thatrelationship. And in some
instances, that meant thatpeople came to believe more of
(25:38):
what you believe. And then inother instances, that's not how
it turned out, but the way thatyou treat people, the way that
you show up, the way that youlead, does not change. And so
for me, that is why I answeredthe question the way that I did.
I have operated in both spacesenough to know that some people
are really going to identifywith faith driven leader, and
(26:01):
some are not, but I justpersonally believe this is true
for so many things. Mick, thatwe focus too much on what makes
us different. And what I wouldlove to see is for us to focus
more on where we align. And Ithink the principles that we
talked about today are somethingthat 99% of people align on and
(26:23):
then as we get intorelationship, maybe as people
listen more to what I have tosay, maybe they check out who I
am beyond this interview, maybethey will get to know me more.
And even if they don't believe,maybe they will still find value
in what I'm able to share. Andso my focus is on relationship,
and I trust that throughrelationship, it will grow. For
(26:46):
those that are attracted to thatreligious or faith based
message, then great, but somepeople will never be attracted
to that. But when I look at theBible, Jesus spent time around
people that did not share all ofthe same beliefs, and so my goal
is to follow the example that Iwas given. And I'm I'm not the
(27:06):
one that's going to do that workanyway. So that's not that
outcome is not on me.
Mick Spiers (27:12):
Really interesting, Tam, so I love the inclusion.
Everything you're talking aboutis very inclusive of all people,
of all beliefs. And I love thisword relationship and and what
I'm taking away from it is thatonce you have that relationship
and that connection, and you'regetting closer to the person,
what I'm projecting is that thenmost likely, then going to get
(27:33):
curious and goes, Yeah, tell memore about that, Tam. And then
you can be in a dialog aboutyour your faith and your
religion, but it's an inviteddialog. It's not an imposed
dialog, where the person mightif you opened up, Hi, I'm Tam,
I'm Christian zealot, and I'mnot calling you a zealot, by the
way, I'm just exaggerating.
Tamara Jackson (27:53):
Yes, I got you.
Mick Spiers (27:55):
Hi, my name's Tam.
I'm a I'm a Christian, Christianseller. They, they're going to
shut down straight away. But ifyou build a relationship with
you, with them based on yourvalues, they're going to see
your values in action, andthey're going to get drawn to
you, and then they're going toget curious, and then you can
have a religious conversationsome other time, if appropriate,
if and when appropriate. Howdoes that sit with you?
Tamara Jackson (28:16):
That's exactly right. You know, in my view,
that's ultimately what a beaconis. They are light. I think,
when I think about because Ithink about that, you know, we
don't talk about them much now.
Mick, but we I think about thoselighthouses that are out there
that, you know, will guide thatship to keep it from crashing on
the shore, right? It's thatlight that kind of guides people
(28:38):
along the sea, the you know, theocean, wherever they're they're
at right? And so that's reallyhow I think about my role. It is
not to convert x number ofpeople to Christianity or beat
people over the head with mybeliefs. At the end of the day,
my goal is to be a beacon inevery space that I'm in, and
(28:59):
some people are going to beattracted to that light, and
then that gives me anopportunity to have that
conversation with them.
Mick Spiers (29:08):
Yeah, nice. And once again, back to this word
beacon, which I love, by theway, the other thing I'm that's
screaming in my head is the wordauthenticity, Tam, and the word
that you used before issomething just didn't sit right
with me. So there's anauthenticity of showing up as a
faith based leader, that youknow what your values are, you
(29:29):
know what you believe in. Andwhen something doesn't sit right
with you, you can go, hang on asecond. That's that's not true
to myself, That's not true to myvalues. I need to do something
different. So there's a deepauthenticity in knowing what
your values are. And for you, itis Christian based values, but
for anyone that has values andthey've done the work to know
(29:51):
who they are and what they standfor and what they won't stand
for, by the way, because that'swhere injustice comes in. If you
know your values. You can thenshow up as your authentic self,
because you're not, once again,you're not imposing your beliefs
on someone else, but you'resticking true to your own
values. How does that sit withyou?
Tamara Jackson (30:11):
Yeah, 100% and I believe that that's where we
need to get to. I just, I feellike there's a couple of things
that are going on right now,Mick, there are some people that
are afraid to be authenticbecause they're concerned about
how people will respond to them.
Are they going to get canceled?
Are they going to no longer beaccepted in certain circles that
(30:33):
they're in? So I think there'sthe camp that's kind of like,
I'm afraid to be who I reallyam, because there might be
consequences to me doing it. Andthen I think there are also
people that are so authenticthat they are intolerant. And I
think this is, this is a spacethat I don't want to be in,
(30:54):
because I believe that we shouldhold true to our beliefs, to our
values, but I don't think we dothat to the extent that it means
that no one else, no one else'sopinions, no one else's
feelings, no one else's beliefsare valid. And so what I would
love to see is us beingauthentic in our beliefs and at
(31:16):
the same time, willing to listento others. It doesn't mean I
have to agree. Doesn't mean thatwe have to be on the same page,
but sometimes we need to agreeto disagree, but still be able
to be in relationship. And I'dlove to see us be able to do
that more. I think that's whatcauses that first group to shy
away from authenticity, becauseunfortunately, sometimes it does
(31:38):
happen is as soon as yourealize, oh, we're not on the
same page. We don't think thesame thing, we don't believe the
same thing. Then now, all of asudden, I can't be in
relationship with you. I can'tbe in personal relationships. I
can't do business with you. AndI think we are all we all miss
out when we do that. I learn alot from people that don't share
the same faith values that Ihave, but it doesn't mean that I
(32:01):
can't learn from them, and thenthe same is true. I have clients
that don't believe all the samethings that I believe, but they
appreciate the rigor that webring to our work, the
integrity, the discipline, thediscernment that we bring to the
work that we do. So I think weare all missing out when we
don't operate in authenticityand at the same time, be willing
(32:24):
to be in relationship withothers that don't share those
same values.
Mick Spiers (32:29):
I love this. This is a beautiful compass, Tam, so
I am concerned about what yousaid about people that may be
shying away from from beingtheir true self and worried like
the fear of being canceled orfear of being ostracized,
whatever the case may be. Soanyone listening to tam about
this be true to yourself andstep in and be true to yourself,
(32:51):
but do so in a way that's notintolerant of other beliefs and
other other ways of seeing theworld. And then we can go into a
world of co creation Tam, whereif you come with your beliefs
and your thoughts, but you areopen to other ideas, to at least
listen to them, you'll walk awayfrom any conversation richer
(33:13):
than you walked in. If you'rewalking away from every
conversation with the sameknowledge and thoughts is that
you walked in, you're not reallylistening, and you're not being
tolerant of other perspectives.
So that's a bit of a compass foreveryone to think about, be
yourself, but also be tolerantthat that there are people that
are not the same as you. We'reall different.
Tamara Jackson (33:34):
Yeah. And I think if we really think of this
as relationship, that willchange everything. I think so
many times it's a battle ofwho's right and who's wrong. And
I think you know, all of us,when we really step back and
look at the most importantrelationships in our lives, no
(33:56):
one is always right, no one isalways wrong. Even when you
think you're right, you mighthave to compromise sometimes,
right? So if we bought that, ifwe bought that same energy into
these spaces where we don'talways agree, I just, I just can
imagine things being so muchbetter, and maybe, you know, you
(34:16):
you would convince me of somethings that I, you know right
now, I'm like, I don't knowabout that, but if you really
treated me like a person thatyou wanted to be in a
relationship with, I would bemore open to what you have to
say. And the same is true. Likehow I approach people is going
to determine their receptivenessto what I have to say. Sometimes
(34:37):
people just don't listen becauseof the how. And it's not what
you're doing, but it's howyou're doing it.
Mick Spiers (34:43):
How you're doing it, how you said it. Are you
aggressive, you know, all kindsof things. Yeah, really good
time. Relationship is a wordthat keeps coming back in the
conversation. I really lovethat, you know, share a funny
saying that I sometimes use, andmy wife and I laugh about this,
but there's a real message init. Yeah. And that is, we
sometimes say, Oh, do you wantto be always right, or do you
want to be married?
Tamara Jackson (35:06):
They can't do both right?
Mick Spiers (35:10):
But you can. I'm talking marriage there, but you
can do that in any relationship,
Tamara Jackson (35:14):
Any relationship that's right.
Mick Spiers (35:15):
Can be business relationship with customers. Do
you want to be always right, ordo you want to have a business
relationship, any relationship,you can apply the the same
ruling, okay, yeah. That leadsus to, what does faith based
decision making look like?
Tamara Jackson (35:32):
Yeah, and, you know, Mick, this is, this is a
really important question forme, because, you know, I can
think back several years ago, Iwouldn't have, I wouldn't have
had an answer to this question,like, as a matter of fact, even
though my values, my faith, wasreally, really important to me,
and I tried, you know, to makedecisions that I knew wouldn't
(35:52):
clearly violate those beliefs Ididn't realize until recently,
Interestingly enough, after Istepped out of the corporate
space and had more time toreflect, more time to sit, more
time to follow my faithpractices, it wasn't until then
that I realized, wow, thereactually is a space For my faith
(36:19):
in how I approach decisions, andover time, what that developed
into is a little acronym that Iuse to keep myself on track. So
I love to share it with theaudience. So the acronym is
grasp, so the first letter is G,and what I realized as I look
(36:39):
back over my life and some ofthe decisions that I made,
personally and professionally,is that I didn't always gather
enough information. Sometimes Irushed into a decision because I
felt pressured. You know,there's this deadline, there's
this thing that we've got to do,or I was just really excited
about it. I could see so muchpotential in it, and because I
(37:00):
felt good about it, and eventhough I may have prayed about
it a little bit here and there,but more so as I went along, I
just was like, Oh, this has gotto be good. This has got to be a
good thing. It looks good. I'mgoing to go ahead and do it. And
one of the things that I'velearned is, you know what, Tam,
sometimes you really just needto slow down. You need to ask
them more questions. You need todo some more research. You need
(37:22):
to maybe ask some people abouttheir experience. If it's
something that someone thatyou're looking at going into
business with, you need to taketime, slow down, gather some
information, and that will helpyou make better decisions. The R
is for reflection. So once youhave gathered this information.
It's really important to me.
I've learned I need space. Ineed to pause a little bit. I
(37:45):
need to digest this information.
I need to try to discern what Ishould take away from it.
Because sometimes, especially inthis day and age, we have so
many tools at our disposal. It'snot just like back in the day
where you had an encyclopedia tolook up, to look in, or to go to
library like at your fingertips,you can type a couple of words
(38:07):
in Google and get all of thisback. And now, in the age of AI,
we can leverage chat, GPT andall these other tools to get
information overload. Socreating space to really reflect
on what I have gathered isreally important. The A stands
for ask for guidance. And as aperson of faith, for me, that is
(38:27):
two fold. One, I'm asking forthat spiritual guidance. Of
course, I'm doing that everyday, and everything that I'm
doing anyway, but this is a veryintentional, specific time on
this particular decision thatI'm looking to make, asking God
for guidance on this, the paththat I should take, and at the
same time also asking peoplethat are really knowledgeable
about this subject. You know, Irecognize, looking back, that a
(38:51):
lot of decisions that I made, Iprobably could have saved myself
some heartache, some money, somelost time by just asking people
that were wise, that hadexperience in that space about
what their advice would be. So Ais asking for guidance. The S is
the part that I find to bereally fun, but again, many
(39:12):
times I had skipped the stepsleading up to this, and that's
coming up with a strategy. Okay,now I want to strategize, but I
want to make sure that I'mstrategizing wisely based on the
information that I've gathered.
I've given myself time toreflect. I've asked for
guidance. What does this allsay? You know, how can I put
together a plan to start movingin a direction that I believe
(39:33):
that I need to go in, but maybenot, you know, go all in, maybe
not. Put all of my eggs in onebasket. How can I be wise about
the first steps that I'm goingto take? And then once I have
come up with that strategy,which may also mean that I need
input from others in developingthat, then I'm ready to proceed
in faith. And again, the faithis not, of course, the you know,
(39:56):
my. Values are undergirdingeverything that I do, but when I
talk about faith here, it's moreabout just just believing in
that resilience that we talkedabout earlier. It's not proceed
in faith. I am 100% sure thateverything is going to work out
exactly like I thought it would,according to this plan that I
(40:18):
developed, but it's a beliefthat, hey, some things are going
to work out, some things aren't,but I am resilient enough that I
am going to be able to keepgoing. I'm going to be able to
figure out what works that andwhat doesn't, and eventually I'm
going to get to the place that Ineed to be, which, interestingly
enough, in my experience, Mickis not always the place that I
(40:39):
started off going to, but I endup where I am supposed to be. So
that's what faith based decisionmaking looks like for me these
days.
Mick Spiers (40:50):
That's really good, Tam. I'm going to play back to
you some of the things thatyou've just said, but also
things that have built up for methrough our conversation. And
the first one, I'm going to keepon coming back to the things
that you've said, where yousaid, Oh, something just didn't
feel right. Okay. So, so interms of the faith based
decision making in business, I'mextrapolating a little bit here,
(41:11):
and I'm testing it with you, andthen I'm going to come to the
Grasp framework as to how itmight show up. So I'm going to
say to the audience, if you'rein business, and you're making a
decision, but something doesn'tfeel right. That might be
alerting you to the decisionyou're about to base, about to
make is maybe contrary to yourvalues. You can call it
(41:33):
intuition, you can call it gutfeeling, but I think it's
signaling to you, hang on asecond pause that doesn't feel
right. It's trying to tell yousomething, and what I'm trying
to say here is, is to look, ifyou're looking at making a
decision and look on surface, itlooks like a good business
decision, but it doesn't feelright, then it's not the right
decision. If you're looking at adecision that is aligned with
(41:57):
your values, but is a badbusiness decision, then it's the
wrong decision. So we're lookingto always not, not to be at the
expense of the other. So a goodbusiness decision shouldn't be
at the expense of your values,and a good values based decision
shouldn't be at the expense ofyour business, is what I'm
trying to say here. So if you'regetting that feeling, then pause
(42:20):
and grasp gather more data,reflect on what that data means,
ask from guidance, from whoeverthat is that you trust to give
you some guidance. Have astrategy on what the first step
might be, and then to proceedwith faith and the proceed with
faith. Tam, it came back to thatHenry Ford thing for me, if, if
you start out on a journeythinking it's going to fail.
(42:41):
It's it's going to fail.
Starting out on the journeythinking it's going to succeed
doesn't automatically mean it'sgoing to succeed, but it's got a
better chance now, right? Soabsolutely, so proceed with
faith. Otherwise, don't proceed.
If you go, Ah, whatever. Let'stry. If you, if you're starting
the conversation with let's try.
It's not going to work. It's notgoing to work. You have to. Once
(43:03):
you've decided you need toproceed with faith, how does a
let's hit with you. This, thisgut feeling, this balancing
between, don't make a decisionthat compromises one or the
other. And then if you findyourself in that situation,
pause, it's the wrong decision.
Pause, pause and gather,reflect, ask for guidance,
(43:24):
develop a strategy and proceedwith faith.
Tamara Jackson (43:27):
Yeah, I love the way that you sum that up, Mick,
because I think it describes howcomplex making decisions really
is. You know, one of the thingsthat I've realized is I can't
remember. I don't know if youhad this experience. Mick, but I
can't remember anybody actuallysitting me down at any point in
(43:47):
my 51 years to say, hey, Tam,here's how you make decisions.
So I think we kind of pick upways. We observe other people.
We might read this or that. Wemight pick up something from
here or there, but there's not awhole lot of hey, this is the
framework. This is the path thatyou take when you're making a
(44:11):
decision. And sometimes they'rereally big decisions, and
sometimes they may seem likesmall decisions, but often have
big consequences. And so thetension that you've described
does resonate with me is I'mtrying to find that balance
between my values and what is agood sound decision. And for me,
(44:31):
being able to come up with thisacronym was the answer for that,
because until I had it, I wastrying different things here and
there, and I was thinking that Iwas kind of, you know, going
through the steps that I neededto take, and it wasn't until I
was able to put to papersomething that I can literally,
when I first started out withthis, I wrote it down a lot like
(44:54):
I would literally write down myanswers to each piece of it,
like out either in my phone.
Phone, or sometimes I'm kind ofold school, I would write it in
a notebook, and I still do thatin some instances. But there are
also many times where I'mliterally, like in my mind,
going through these steps tomake sure that I'm not
forgetting something, that I'mnot overlooking something
(45:15):
important. Because we have thisability as humans, once we get
really excited about something,we can talk ourselves into it.
And so this has been a reallyimportant journey for me to get
to a place where I'm able to bemore objective. I think that's
the word that comes to mind as Ithink about this, is being able
to be more objective in mydecisions and not just lead with
(45:38):
my feelings, because sometimesmy feelings can get me in
trouble.
Mick Spiers (45:45):
Yeah, really good, Tam, and that's also a very
aware situation, to understandthat your feelings are part of
that decision, not it doesn'thave to be the decision. But if
you're doing this graspframework, you're bringing it
all in together. So you're notgoing to a Excel spreadsheet
where everything is going to bevery academic. Either you're not
(46:05):
ignoring the feelings, butyou're not. Yeah, it's it's that
balance. It's really good. Tam,look, you've given us so many
great things to to think aboutin today's show. I'm going to
reflect on some of them and takeus to our final round of our
Rapid Round questions. So you'vereally made a stop and think
about not just impact, butmeaningful impact. Where can you
(46:27):
find meaningful impact in yourcurrent job or around you? Where
can you find meaningful impact?
Instead of just striving forsuccess, strive for
significance, to be significantto others around you to be that
beacon. It could be a beacon ofhope that people need right now,
but to be that beacon thatpeople can gravitate towards,
that you can show up as a faithbased leader and be authentic
(46:51):
and be true to yourself, be trueto your values. Who are you?
What do you stand for? Whatwon't you stand for? And let
that be your compass when you'remaking decisions and how you
show up as a leader. And ifsomething doesn't feel right,
check in with yourself. Use thisframework, this grasp framework,
(47:11):
to gather more information, toreflect, to ask for guidance, to
have a strategy and then proceedwith faith. But don't ignore the
signal. If it doesn't feelright, it's telling you
something. And get more curiousbefore you make that decision.
All right. Tim, absolutely lovethis. Let's go to our final four
(47:32):
questions. These are the samefour questions that we ask all
of our guests. So what's the onething you know now? Tamara
Jackson, that you wish you knewwhen you were 20?
Tamara Jackson (47:44):
Yeah, I think the first thing that comes to
mind is Enjoy your youth,because it goes fast. What I
mean by that is, you know, I canremember being a teenager, being
in such a rush to grow up, likeI wanted to have a job, I wanted
to have a car, I wanted to haveall those things. And now that I
know what being an adult and allthe responsibilities that come
(48:06):
with being an adult, I wouldtell myself, listen, don't be in
such a rush. Enjoy your youth.
Take more chances. I was in arush to get in a stable career
and have all of these things. IfI had known then what I know
now, I think I would have takenmore chances, and I would have
enjoyed being a young adult andnot being in such a rush to get
older fast.
Mick Spiers (48:30):
Oh, this is so true, Tam. We spend our first
years wanting to be older. Wespend our last years. Oh, I
wish.
Tamara Jackson (48:36):
I was ready to be young.
Mick Spiers (48:41):
What is your favorite book, Tam?
Tamara Jackson (48:44):
Yeah, this is, this is tough, because if you
guys were to zoom out into myoffice, I have literally
hundreds of books. So for you toask a person like me what my
favorite book is, is really,really challenging, but here,
here's the answer that comes topof mind for me. My favorite book
(49:05):
is Jesus calling. It's a verysmall book that just has a short
devotional in it for each day.
It makes a relationship forthose that can identify with my
beliefs, it makes a relationshipwith Christ personal, and so I
really appreciate being able tohave that short encouragement as
a start to my day and reallyground me and get me in a place
(49:27):
where I realize, okay, I'm notalone in this world. I have, you
know, that support that I need,and just getting that little
dose of information really makesa difference for my day. So
that's my answer for today.
Mick Spiers (49:45):
I can definitely see the meaning for you. That's
really good. Tim, what's yourfavorite quote?
Tamara Jackson (49:50):
That is tough too. But you know what? When you
asked me, you told me thisquestion was coming earlier, the
quote that came to mind is aquote. Quote by Jim Rohn, and
he's no longer with us, but wasa really popular motivational
speaker, and I used to have itwhen I was in corporate. I used
to have it actually taped on mycubicle, and he said, don't wish
(50:14):
it were easier. Wish you werebetter. He also had this sailing
about this saying about notwishing for a smooth seas, but
wanting to be a better sailor,or something to that effect.
What I took from those quotes,and I had no idea of, you know,
the ups and downs that I waswould experience in my life, but
(50:36):
it gave me perspective. Is like,don't wish for things to be
easier, because the reality oflife is we are going to have
those those tough moments. Buthow can I become stronger? How
can I become more resilient? Howcan I become more grounded? How
can I remain optimistic, evenwhen there are times when it
(50:57):
doesn't seem like there'sanything to be optimistic about.
That is a skill that I think cancarry us through some really
difficult situations.
Mick Spiers (51:06):
Really good, Tam, you had me captivated there with
all of that. And yeah, we doneed to stop and reframe these
things. It's really great. Andfinally, Tamara Jackson, how do
people find you? There's goingto be people listening to this.
They could be at any end of thatspectrum, but I'm going to say
there's going to be people thatgo that do want to be a faith
based leader and and be true totheir values and beliefs. How do
(51:30):
people find you if they'd liketo know more?
Tamara Jackson (51:33):
Yeah, so I would, I would share a couple of
ways. LinkedIn is the platformthat I hang out on most, and I
actually talk about both on thatplatform. So I'd love for you to
connect with me on LinkedIn.
Tamara Jackson, you'll be ableto find me there, and you'll see
both beacon ship and leadReviver. If being inspired by
beacons is of interest to you. Iwould love for you to find us on
(51:55):
YouTube the beacon show. We'verecorded two seasons of episodes
with faith driven leaders in allspaces. So some operate in
ministry. Some operate multimillion dollar corporations.
It's been really fun and cool.
Some are in the arts, in moviesand theater. It's been really
(52:17):
cool to sit down with people andunpack some of the leadership
lessons that they've learnedalong the way. So I'd love for
you to subscribe to the beaconshow on YouTube, and then if you
want to be a part of thebeaconship community, you can
visit us @beaconship.co and ifAI is something that tickles
your fancy and you want to see,well, how does a person leverage
(52:40):
AI for actually a business case.
I'd love for you to visit ourwebsite @leadreviver.pro Mick,
thank you for the opportunity toshare today.
Mick Spiers (52:51):
All right, brilliant. Tam, absolutely
wonderful. Thank you. You aretruly a beacon. You're a beacon,
and I have love listening to youtoday. Thank you for sharing
your time with us today, butalso for authentically sharing
sharing with us your values andbeliefs. And I certainly walk
away from this conversationricher and wiser than when we
began. Thank you.
Tamara Jackson (53:12):
Awesome. Thank you, Mick.
Mick Spiers (53:14):
What a powerful conversation with Tamara Jackson
as you reflect on tomorrow'sjourney, ask yourself this,
where do my deepest values needto show up more boldly in how I
lead this week? Who needs me tobe a beacon right now? And what
small act of belief, resilienceor gratitude could I offer them?
And if my calendar reflected myconvictions, what would change
(53:37):
first? If you enjoyed this, makesure you check out tomorrow's
work, subscribe to the beaconshow on YouTube, or explore the
beacon ship community. And asalways, if this episode sparks
something in you, share it witha leader who's ready to show up
with courage and heart. In thenext episode, we'll be joined by
Phil Wilson, seven times authorand advocate for creating
(54:00):
extraordinary workplaces wherewe'll be talking about
approachable leadership andshrinking the power distance
between boss and employee.
Thank you for listening to TheLeadership Project,
mickspiers.com a huge call outto Faris Sedek for his video
editing of all of our videocontent and to all of the team
(54:23):
at TLP. Joan Gozon, GeraldCalibo And my amazing wife Sei
Spiers, I could not do this showwithout you. Don't forget to
subscribe to The LeadershipProject YouTube channel where we
bring you interesting videoseach and every week, and you can
follow us on social,particularly on LinkedIn,
Facebook and Instagram. Now inthe meantime, please do take
(54:45):
care, look out for each otherand join us on this journey as
we learn together and leadtogether.
What do you truly stand for when no one's
watching? How do you lead withconviction without imposing your
beliefs on others? And if lifereminded you tomorrow that time
is short, would you be proud ofhow you're showing up today? In
today's episode, I'm joined byTamara Jackson, founder of
(00:21):
Beacon ship, and host of thebeacon Show. Today we explore
how belief, resilience andgratitude translate into
everyday leadership, whatauthentic, inclusive faith looks
like at work, and how to be abeacon for others amid pressure
and uncertainty. Thisconversation is about
courageously aligning your innercompass with your outer
(00:45):
leadership, without judgment,without dogma, and with a whole
lot of love and impact. Let'sdive in.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto The Leadership Project. I'm
greatly honored today to bejoined by Tamara Jackson. Tamara
is the founder of anorganization called Lead
Reviver, and after a successfulcorporate career, also the
(01:06):
founder of an organizationcalled beaconship, and the host
of the beacon show. And shelooks to help people combine
faith together with innovationand technology. And we're going
to talk a little bit about therole of faith in leadership.
Does it have a role? Does ithave a conflicting role with
looking to run a business, butit's also very important to a
(01:31):
lot of people their faith. Sothis is going to be a really
interesting conversation. Iinvite you to come into this
with an open mind and an openset of ears, and let's hear from
Tamara about this integration offaith into her leadership. So
Tamara, without any further ado,please say hello to the
audience. Tell us a little bitabout your background, but I'm
(01:52):
most interested to know whatinspired you to transition from
a very successful corporatecareer into founding beacon ship
and the bacon show?
Tamara Jackson (02:02):
Yeah. Thank you so much, Mick, for the
opportunity to be here and sharewith this audience. I know that.
I'm sure lots of people want tobe here, so I'm honored to be
able to spend time with you andyour community today. A little
bit about me as you've shared. Igrew up in the corporate space,
had a 25 year career infinancial services. Started out
(02:25):
very, very frontline associatetype of role. I was answering
the phone just trying to kind ofget my foot in the door. And I
was persistent, and over time, Iwas able to move up that ladder,
got the coveted VP title. Had apretty amazing career and
salary, but I did get to a pointabout halfway through my
(02:48):
experience in corporate where Istarted having the itch for
more, and maybe someone that iswatching or listening to us can
identify with that. Assuccessful as I was, I felt like
something was missing, that Iwanted to make an impact in a
different way. So actually, forhalf of my corporate career, I
was I would have what manypeople would describe as a side
hustle. So I had differentbusiness interests that I
(03:11):
pursued on the side. So was verydedicated to that corporate
career, but in evenings andweekends, where I could squeeze
in time, I would be working onother things. So there was a
part of me that always knew thatentrepreneurship was something
that I wanted to pursue fulltime, but the question for me
was, how and when? How do Itransition from corporate to
(03:33):
working full time, and then whatis the right timing? And because
I could not answer thatquestion. Mick, for so long, I
stayed I worked really longhours trying to fulfill my
corporate duties, and then Iwould stay up late into the
night and work most Saturdaystrying to make sure that my side
hustles for were successful. Somaybe someone that's that's
(03:55):
watching or listening to meright now can identify with
that. And the question that youasked, is a really important
one, and I love the word choice.
You said, what inspired me tostep out of that and work full
time in projects that I'mpassionate about, I think for
me. Mick, it was the realizationthat life is fragile. In 2022 my
mom was diagnosed with stagefour breast cancer, and the
(04:20):
doctor shared with us that there
was a 50 (04:23):
50, chance that she would be here a year from now.
So at that point, I literallyput everything on hold, my
corporate career, the sidehustles that I was juggling, and
I left Charlotte, NorthCarolina, went back to Richmond,
Virginia, where I grew up, and Iwent there to be with my mom, so
I spent that time with her. Sheended up not making it a full
(04:45):
year. She passed away about 10months later, but I'm so
grateful for that time that Igot to spend with her. We had
great conversations, lots oflaughs, and I have memories that
I will be able to carry with menow that I wouldn't have had. If
I could not have spent that timewith her, but at the same time,
Mick, what that time with hertaught me, and then the years
(05:08):
since that's happened, shepassed away in 2023 it's just
helped me to realize that thereare no guarantees, like you
don't know how much time youhave on the clock. And so what
inspired the decision to leavecorporate and to step into
entrepreneurship full time wasjust the realization that I had
these things that I wanted todo, and my ability to do them
(05:30):
while juggling the corporatecareer was going to be limited.
So I finally just came to thisrealization, there's no better
time than the present. I rippedthe band aid off and step full
time into entrepreneurship. Sobeacon ship really spoke to the
side of me that is very faithdriven, that wants to make an
impact in the businessmarketplace, not necessarily
(05:53):
behind a pulpit, but I wanted tobe to bring that faith lens into
the marketplace. And then the AIcompany lead Reviver is a
passion project of mine. I'vebeen using AI since 2021 long
before chatGPT and all the otherAI platforms that are now
mainstream. So I loved tinkeringwith AI. So when I figured out
(06:14):
that aI had the potential tosolve problems that solopreneurs
and small teams face every day,I knew it was something that I
wanted to be a part of so longanswer, but that's what inspired
me, and that's why I'm heretoday.
Mick Spiers (06:28):
Yeah, that's great, Tam. Look, first of all, sorry
for your loss, but I'm alsopleased to hear that you got to
spend those precious momentswith your mum in those last
moments, what was screaming outto me when I was listening to
you, first of all, theimpermanence of life, and we
forget this, that is actuallywhat makes life beautiful, and
(06:51):
to realize that we all havelimited time, whether that can
be a traumatic event or it couldbe just, you know, life is
impermanent. So so to thinkabout the choices that we make,
and for you, what I'm hearing isthat trauma in your life made
you stop and realize, well, hangon a second, what's really
important. And that leads meback to one of the first things
(07:13):
you said, is you, even beforethat trauma, you were looking in
your day job and you weresuccessful, but something was
missing, and you wanted more.
But what I heard is the morewasn't more money, a bigger
house, a bigger car, it wassomething else. So tell us more
about that. What was thesomething missing?
Tamara Jackson (07:36):
Yeah, so I think for me, Mick, and maybe others,
can identify with this. I knew Iwas making an impact in my role,
like I could look at, you know,the score cards that we were
evaluated against. I could lookat my annual review. So I knew I
was making a difference, but itwasn't making a difference in
the way that was most meaningfulto me, like I didn't have the
(07:58):
ability to see how people'slives were truly dream being
transformed through the workthat I did. I knew that we were
making the company more revenue.
I knew that we were becomingmore operationally efficient and
conceptually. I know that thatimpacts people, but I had a
desire to impact people on anheart and soul level, and I
(08:19):
wasn't really getting that andthe corporate career, and I
think that's what kept pullingme to these side hustle
projects, is I wanted to workwith people and really get in
the trenches with them and helpthem to grow and develop because
that had been so helpful to me.
I had so many people that camealong, both personally and
professionally, that mentoredme, that shared things with me,
(08:43):
that I wouldn't be the personthat I am today without them,
and I wanted to be a part ofhaving that same type of impact
on others.
Mick Spiers (08:52):
Really good, Tamara, I'm going to say there's
two words screaming in my head,impact and meaning. So bear with
me for a second. I'm going tosay to the audience, you can be
impactful in any job, in anycompany. But the question is, is
that impact meaningful? Is itmeaningful to you? Is it
something that you go home atthe end of the day proud of
(09:12):
going I made a difference today.
So impact? Yes, but meaningful,impact is where the difference
is made. Now tell me, Tam, I'mgoing to put you on the spot
here a little bit. How does itfeel? The difference between
impact and meaningful impact?
How does that feel?
Tamara Jackson (09:32):
Yeah, I think that that when you have impact,
but it's not meaningful to you.
And to your point, how we answerthat question is going to vary
from person to person, but whenit is meaningful impact you you
go to bed differently, like nowI'm able to go to bed and know,
listen, I planted some seeds,even if they haven't come to
(09:55):
fruition yet. I planted someseeds that. Can just imagine a
year from now, two years fromnow, five years from now, what
that's going to lead to. Andthere's a sense of satisfaction
from that that makes me, youknow, believe that even if I
hope I have more time, but evenif I left here today, I just
have this feeling like I gave itall that I could, I made all the
(10:19):
impact that I could make withthe time that I have, the
skills, the talents, theresources that I have when I
wasn't operating in the spacewhere it was truly meaningful.
It was just this, this void. Itwas this hollowness, is how it
would describe it to what I wasdoing is I knew that the, you
know, the all of the things thatpeople often hold up as success,
(10:43):
were there, but in my heart ofheart, I knew that there was
still a void, that there wasmore that I could do that I
wasn't doing. So that's how Iwould describe the difference
between the two.
Mick Spiers (10:56):
Yeah, really good, Tam. Now I'm going to illustrate
something with you here and say,like it meaningful impact is
different for for differentpeople. So I'm going to share my
meaningful impact the way that Iview it. So I've spent the
second half of my career in theurban mobility industry, so
railway signaling and traincontrol systems and all kinds of
(11:17):
things, and of obviously, I'vegot the Leadership Project is
also a huge inspiration andcalling for me as well. But when
I when I look at it, let's gowith the urban mobility world. I
could have impact by growing thebusiness, more revenue, more
sales, all this kind of stuff.
But what's more important to meis the impact that we have on
people's lives, that we create aworld where people can get to
(11:40):
and from work without delays,without disruptions, without
stress, and to get home safelyto their families at the end of
the day. That's the meaningfulimpact, the impact that we make
money along the way. That'shelpful because it fuels the the
impact. But the meaningfulimpact is the impact on people's
lives. And for the leadershipproject, it's got meaningful
(12:00):
impact is to remember thatpeople spend up to 1/3 of their
life in the workplace, soanything that we do to help
leaders to create a betterenvironment is enriching
people's lives, because they'renot going into stressful, toxic
workplaces. So I'm justillustrating that that that for
you, Tam, your meaningfulimpact, you're founded. But
(12:22):
anyone can find it, and itdoesn't even have to mean
changing jobs. You can find itwhere you are, depending on
where you are. You canpotentially find it where you
are. How does that sit with you,this meaningful impact? And
working out, what is the endresult of what I'm doing here,
not just the money and theresults, the end result?
Tamara Jackson (12:42):
Yeah, I think that ultimately, that's what
many of us are looking for,Mick, we're looking for
significance, like we want toknow that when we leave here,
the world is somehow differentand better, and so I think
that's what we are, whether werealize it or not. That's what
many of us are searching for isnot just success, but I want to
(13:06):
do something significant. I knowthat I'm here for a reason.
Every day that I think tomyself, every day that I wake
up, I mean, I'm still herebecause there must be more for
me to do. And I think we're onthis journey as leaders to
figure out what is, what doessignificance look like for me,
so that I have the satisfactionthat I have fulfilled. I love
(13:26):
the word that you used earlier,the calling that I have. I do
believe that we all have thatthere's lots of things that we
can do, but I believe that weall have a calling to fulfill,
and none of us wants to leavehere having not done that. And
so yeah, I'm tracking with you100%.
Mick Spiers (13:46):
There's so many great words that are coming from
this interview, Tam. Thank youso much. So first of all, I'm
gonna put this to the audience'squestions right now. Are you
being impactful? Is Questionone, that's fine, but is it
meaningful impact? And thenlisten to what tam just said,
don't just strive for success,strive for significance. And are
you leaving the world a betterplace behind you? And that world
(14:10):
can be your household, can beyour team, can be your
workplace, but are you leavingit in a better place than the
way that you found it and willpeople, it's almost like a
legacy this significance. Willpeople remember the impact that
that Tam Jackson had on thepeople that she intersected
with?
Tamara Jackson (14:30):
Yeah, that's really how I think about it.
Mick is all of this is about, atleast for me, in this season of
my life, it's about legacy, likeit's it's not. I mean, making
more money is great. Gettingaccolades is wonderful. It's
always great to be appreciatedand recognized. But at this
stage in my life, what is mostimportant to me is what I leave
(14:51):
behind. And it's not because Iwant specifically people to be
talking about me for years andyears and years i. After I leave
here, but it's more of theexample that my mom left for me.
So one of the things that Ireally took away from her
passing is how well people spokeabout the impact that she made
(15:13):
in their lives. I went to herold job, and people just were
flocking to me to tell theywanted to specifically tell me
stories about how my mom hadsupported them, how they had how
she had encouraged them. She wasreally big on goals, so she
would always ask people abouttheir goals and how they were
progressing towards it. Shefinancially gave to people that
(15:35):
you know were going back toschool and doing this and that,
and so it's more about that typeof experience, not because I
want my name in light, but Iwant people to when I leave
here, to be able to tell storiesof how something that I said,
something that I did, hopefully,through the work that we're
doing with the beacon, show thatsomething has made their life
(15:57):
better. And I believe that manyof us have a desire to leave
that same type of legacy.
Mick Spiers (16:04):
Yeah, I love it, Tamara, I'm gonna share with
you. I love the pride in yourvoice when you talk about your
mum, and what I hear is a leaderof significance and a leader
that had a meaningful impact onpeople around her, right So, and
that's exactly what we'retalking about now. That leads me
to what what's important to younow, you're you're a very much a
(16:25):
person of faith. Tell me whatfaith means to you and how it
intersects the way you show up?
Tamara Jackson (16:33):
Yeah. So for me, faith is believing in more than
what you see. That's thesimplest way that that I could
describe it, because the realityof life, Mick and everyone that
is that is watching andlistening to us is life has ups
and downs. I talked about, verytransparently, one of the lowest
(16:53):
lows that I have experienced inmy 51 years. And what has
enabled me to weather that andother storms is my faith. It's
helping me to see that the waythings are is not the way they
will always be, that there ishope for tomorrow, even if today
is really, really challenging,and even on the on the flip side
(17:14):
of that, when things are really,really amazing, it gives you a
sense of gratitude, of like,Hey, listen, I know what it's
like to have those Valleymoments. I'm so grateful that I
was blessed to be in this spacein this time. So faith is my
rock. It's what steadies me. Itwhat's it's what keeps me
hopeful. It's when all elsefails. It is what I hold on
(17:38):
onto. So how does that impacthow I show up in the world? I
think most people that that knowme on a one to one basis know
that my faith is important to mebecause it it oozes through
honestly through, you know how Ishow up, the conversations that
I have and don't have, thethings that I want to be a part
(18:00):
of and don't want to be a partof, because for me, faith is
kind of the guide to my decisionmaking. That's something that
I've really, really leaned intomore and more, is letting faith
lead when it comes down tomaking decisions, and even in
instances where all the optionsseem to be good options, one of
the things that I've learned isthat there is still a difference
(18:23):
between following the path thatis laid out for you and
following a path that canultimately look good but lead
you down the wrong place. Sofaith shows up in every aspect
of how I show up, how I lead,how I run both businesses.
Beacon ship is very faithforward. Lead Reviver is faith
(18:44):
driven, like I bring the valuesthat I believe in into the work
that we do, but we don't leadwith faith in that space. But it
doesn't change that the internaloperating principles that I use
and the people that I'm blessedto work alongside, we still show
up with those same values inboth spaces. So that's my
(19:06):
thought on how I would answerthat question.
Mick Spiers (19:08):
Really good, Tam I'm going to share three words
that are ringing in my head whenI hear you, the word belief, the
word resilience and the wordgratitude. So first of all, the
word belief, or what I'm hearinghere, and we can even just use
Henry Ford here. You know,whether you believe you can or
you can't, you're probablyright. So without some kind of
(19:30):
belief, you're really limitingyour your chance of being
successful in whatever that inendeavor was going to be. Then
the resilience that this tooshall pass. If you're going
through tough times, this tooshall pass. But if you're going
through good times, guess what?
This too shall pass, so.
Tamara Jackson (19:49):
That's going to pass too, yeah? That's true.
Mick Spiers (19:52):
Yeah. So be careful. So be careful and and
then there's the gratitude thatwhen you've. Taken notice of the
bad times. You can be verygrateful for the good times and
grateful for what you do haveinstead of being, I'm going to
say, upset about what you don'thave. So be grateful for what
you do have instead of beingupset for what you don't have.
(20:14):
And that's what can drive youforward. How does the three
words sit with you? The belief,the resilience, the gratitude?
Tamara Jackson (20:23):
I think that if we can hold on to those three
things, Mick, we will, we willbe doing great, right? Because
those three things are what, inmy opinion, allow us to stay
optimistic about our personallives and the world that we live
in. The reality is, it's notjust, you know, even though
sometimes it seems that way,Mick, it's just us on an island,
(20:45):
the reality is that we're also apart of this bigger world. So
even when things are going wellfor me, there can be challenges
in my family, in my community,there can be challenges in the
country that I live in, or forthose that have a heart for
others that even aren't in thesame country, you know, you can
look at the news, you can seethe tragedy and the trauma that
(21:07):
others are experiencing. Sothings can be really, really
good for me, but not be good forothers and vice versa. It is
that belief, that resilience andthat gratitude that allows us to
stay anchored in both scenarios,believing that things can get
better, that not just in ourhuman resilience, but in the
(21:29):
resilience of people incommunities, in nations, to be
able to survive these things andgratitude, gratitude for when
things are going Well for us,and you know, it's our season to
kind of shine and to feel thatsignificance and success, but
also gratitude, that I hopethose that are really embracing
(21:52):
that title of leaders, gratitudeto be in a position where you
can help others. So one of thethings that I try to focus on is
whether things are good for meor not. How can I focus on the
positive? What is it that Istill am really blessed in
whether that's time, whetherthat's money, whether it is
encouragement, just being ableto say something to someone that
(22:15):
can help them? How can I letlive in gratitude and allow some
of my blessings to overflow toother people. So that's how I
think about the three words thatyou've highlighted here.
Mick Spiers (22:28):
Yeah, I love that, Tam, and it's very, very much
from a service point of view.
And to be a beacon, I'm going touse your word to be a beacon. If
you're able to do that, you canbe a beacon for others. They
might be going through toughtimes themselves, and you might
be the very person that theyneeded in their life right now,
if you're able to show up withthat belief, with the
(22:48):
resilience, with the gratitude,but also to be able to your
gifts might be the very giftsthat someone else is is waiting
on. That's really interesting.
Tam, alright, so I want to godeeper into into faith on two
things. The second one is goingto be about the faith based
decision making. But before weget there, when I heard you talk
(23:10):
about faith, I was listeningvery carefully, and I didn't,
and I know that you're aChristian, I didn't hear the
word God Jesus anywhere there. Iheard a lot about belief,
resilience, gratitude, that wespoke about about values. I
heard a lot about values. Ididn't hear a lot about specific
religion. Now, why am I bringingthis up? I'm going to tell you
(23:32):
that when people hear the wordfaith based leadership, I can
tell you that half the audienceare going to be sitting up in
their chair going, Yeah, I'm I'ma person of faith. Tell me more.
How do I how can I bring myfaith into my leadership, and
then half the audience are goingto be going, Oh, please don't
impose your religious beliefs onme. How do you balance that,
(23:55):
Tam, how do you balance that,that you are a Christian and you
you have your religious beliefs,but that's not what I heard when
you said about faith basedleadership. How do you balance
that some people are going tohave the same religious beliefs
of you and some are notreligious at all, or have
different religious beliefs?
Tamara Jackson (24:14):
Yeah, it's a really great question, and I
think it's it's probably onethat many people, especially the
group that you described, thefirst group that you described,
they're like, Yeah, I'm allabout faith based leadership.
They've probably struggled withthat tension before. I can think
about many times in my journeywhere I was in situations where
(24:34):
people made me feel like I hadto choose, and something inside
of me just didn't sit well withme. I just didn't like the idea
that in order to be successful,I had to put my beliefs on the
shelf. But it did challenge,challenge me, Mick to say, okay,
not everyone has the samereligious beliefs that I have.
(24:56):
Not everyone believes in God,not everyone believes in Jesus.
And. Is me shouting from therooftops that I'm a Christian,
the most important thing as afaith driven leader, and my
answer to that, believe it ornot, is no. Because when I think
about the example for those thatdo follow Christianity, the goal
(25:16):
was not to shout from therooftops who I am. It was about
meeting people where they werehaving relationship with them,
and through that relationship,you got to know one another. The
love was felt in thatrelationship. And in some
instances, that meant thatpeople came to believe more of
(25:38):
what you believe. And then inother instances, that's not how
it turned out, but the way thatyou treat people, the way that
you show up, the way that youlead, does not change. And so
for me, that is why I answeredthe question the way that I did.
I have operated in both spacesenough to know that some people
are really going to identifywith faith driven leader, and
(26:01):
some are not, but I justpersonally believe this is true
for so many things. Mick, thatwe focus too much on what makes
us different. And what I wouldlove to see is for us to focus
more on where we align. And Ithink the principles that we
talked about today are somethingthat 99% of people align on and
(26:23):
then as we get intorelationship, maybe as people
listen more to what I have tosay, maybe they check out who I
am beyond this interview, maybethey will get to know me more.
And even if they don't believe,maybe they will still find value
in what I'm able to share. Andso my focus is on relationship,
and I trust that throughrelationship, it will grow. For
(26:46):
those that are attracted to thatreligious or faith based
message, then great, but somepeople will never be attracted
to that. But when I look at theBible, Jesus spent time around
people that did not share all ofthe same beliefs, and so my goal
is to follow the example that Iwas given. And I'm I'm not the
(27:06):
one that's going to do that workanyway. So that's not that
outcome is not on me.
Mick Spiers (27:12):
Really interesting, Tam, so I love the inclusion.
Everything you're talking aboutis very inclusive of all people,
of all beliefs. And I love thisword relationship and and what
I'm taking away from it is thatonce you have that relationship
and that connection, and you'regetting closer to the person,
what I'm projecting is that thenmost likely, then going to get
(27:33):
curious and goes, Yeah, tell memore about that, Tam. And then
you can be in a dialog aboutyour your faith and your
religion, but it's an inviteddialog. It's not an imposed
dialog, where the person mightif you opened up, Hi, I'm Tam,
I'm Christian zealot, and I'mnot calling you a zealot, by the
way, I'm just exaggerating.
Tamara Jackson (27:53):
Yes, I got you.
Mick Spiers (27:55):
Hi, my name's Tam.
I'm a I'm a Christian, Christianseller. They, they're going to
shut down straight away. But ifyou build a relationship with
you, with them based on yourvalues, they're going to see
your values in action, andthey're going to get drawn to
you, and then they're going toget curious, and then you can
have a religious conversationsome other time, if appropriate,
if and when appropriate. Howdoes that sit with you?
Tamara Jackson (28:16):
That's exactly right. You know, in my view,
that's ultimately what a beaconis. They are light. I think,
when I think about because Ithink about that, you know, we
don't talk about them much now.
Mick, but we I think about thoselighthouses that are out there
that, you know, will guide thatship to keep it from crashing on
the shore, right? It's thatlight that kind of guides people
(28:38):
along the sea, the you know, theocean, wherever they're they're
at right? And so that's reallyhow I think about my role. It is
not to convert x number ofpeople to Christianity or beat
people over the head with mybeliefs. At the end of the day,
my goal is to be a beacon inevery space that I'm in, and
(28:59):
some people are going to beattracted to that light, and
then that gives me anopportunity to have that
conversation with them.
Mick Spiers (29:08):
Yeah, nice. And once again, back to this word
beacon, which I love, by theway, the other thing I'm that's
screaming in my head is the wordauthenticity, Tam, and the word
that you used before issomething just didn't sit right
with me. So there's anauthenticity of showing up as a
faith based leader, that youknow what your values are, you
(29:29):
know what you believe in. Andwhen something doesn't sit right
with you, you can go, hang on asecond. That's that's not true
to myself, That's not true to myvalues. I need to do something
different. So there's a deepauthenticity in knowing what
your values are. And for you, itis Christian based values, but
for anyone that has values andthey've done the work to know
(29:51):
who they are and what they standfor and what they won't stand
for, by the way, because that'swhere injustice comes in. If you
know your values. You can thenshow up as your authentic self,
because you're not, once again,you're not imposing your beliefs
on someone else, but you'resticking true to your own
values. How does that sit withyou?
Tamara Jackson (30:11):
Yeah, 100% and I believe that that's where we
need to get to. I just, I feellike there's a couple of things
that are going on right now,Mick, there are some people that
are afraid to be authenticbecause they're concerned about
how people will respond to them.
Are they going to get canceled?
Are they going to no longer beaccepted in certain circles that
(30:33):
they're in? So I think there'sthe camp that's kind of like,
I'm afraid to be who I reallyam, because there might be
consequences to me doing it. Andthen I think there are also
people that are so authenticthat they are intolerant. And I
think this is, this is a spacethat I don't want to be in,
(30:54):
because I believe that we shouldhold true to our beliefs, to our
values, but I don't think we dothat to the extent that it means
that no one else, no one else'sopinions, no one else's
feelings, no one else's beliefsare valid. And so what I would
love to see is us beingauthentic in our beliefs and at
(31:16):
the same time, willing to listento others. It doesn't mean I
have to agree. Doesn't mean thatwe have to be on the same page,
but sometimes we need to agreeto disagree, but still be able
to be in relationship. And I'dlove to see us be able to do
that more. I think that's whatcauses that first group to shy
away from authenticity, becauseunfortunately, sometimes it does
(31:38):
happen is as soon as yourealize, oh, we're not on the
same page. We don't think thesame thing, we don't believe the
same thing. Then now, all of asudden, I can't be in
relationship with you. I can'tbe in personal relationships. I
can't do business with you. AndI think we are all we all miss
out when we do that. I learn alot from people that don't share
the same faith values that Ihave, but it doesn't mean that I
(32:01):
can't learn from them, and thenthe same is true. I have clients
that don't believe all the samethings that I believe, but they
appreciate the rigor that webring to our work, the
integrity, the discipline, thediscernment that we bring to the
work that we do. So I think weare all missing out when we
don't operate in authenticityand at the same time, be willing
(32:24):
to be in relationship withothers that don't share those
same values.
Mick Spiers (32:29):
I love this. This is a beautiful compass, Tam, so
I am concerned about what yousaid about people that may be
shying away from from beingtheir true self and worried like
the fear of being canceled orfear of being ostracized,
whatever the case may be. Soanyone listening to tam about
this be true to yourself andstep in and be true to yourself,
(32:51):
but do so in a way that's notintolerant of other beliefs and
other other ways of seeing theworld. And then we can go into a
world of co creation Tam, whereif you come with your beliefs
and your thoughts, but you areopen to other ideas, to at least
listen to them, you'll walk awayfrom any conversation richer
(33:13):
than you walked in. If you'rewalking away from every
conversation with the sameknowledge and thoughts is that
you walked in, you're not reallylistening, and you're not being
tolerant of other perspectives.
So that's a bit of a compass foreveryone to think about, be
yourself, but also be tolerantthat that there are people that
are not the same as you. We'reall different.
Tamara Jackson (33:34):
Yeah. And I think if we really think of this
as relationship, that willchange everything. I think so
many times it's a battle ofwho's right and who's wrong. And
I think you know, all of us,when we really step back and
look at the most importantrelationships in our lives, no
(33:56):
one is always right, no one isalways wrong. Even when you
think you're right, you mighthave to compromise sometimes,
right? So if we bought that, ifwe bought that same energy into
these spaces where we don'talways agree, I just, I just can
imagine things being so muchbetter, and maybe, you know, you
(34:16):
you would convince me of somethings that I, you know right
now, I'm like, I don't knowabout that, but if you really
treated me like a person thatyou wanted to be in a
relationship with, I would bemore open to what you have to
say. And the same is true. Likehow I approach people is going
to determine their receptivenessto what I have to say. Sometimes
(34:37):
people just don't listen becauseof the how. And it's not what
you're doing, but it's howyou're doing it.
Mick Spiers (34:43):
How you're doing it, how you said it. Are you
aggressive, you know, all kindsof things. Yeah, really good
time. Relationship is a wordthat keeps coming back in the
conversation. I really lovethat, you know, share a funny
saying that I sometimes use, andmy wife and I laugh about this,
but there's a real message init. Yeah. And that is, we
sometimes say, Oh, do you wantto be always right, or do you
want to be married?
Tamara Jackson (35:06):
They can't do both right?
Mick Spiers (35:10):
But you can. I'm talking marriage there, but you
can do that in any relationship,
Tamara Jackson (35:14):
Any relationship that's right.
Mick Spiers (35:15):
Can be business relationship with customers. Do
you want to be always right, ordo you want to have a business
relationship, any relationship,you can apply the the same
ruling, okay, yeah. That leadsus to, what does faith based
decision making look like?
Tamara Jackson (35:32):
Yeah, and, you know, Mick, this is, this is a
really important question forme, because, you know, I can
think back several years ago, Iwouldn't have, I wouldn't have
had an answer to this question,like, as a matter of fact, even
though my values, my faith, wasreally, really important to me,
and I tried, you know, to makedecisions that I knew wouldn't
(35:52):
clearly violate those beliefs Ididn't realize until recently,
Interestingly enough, after Istepped out of the corporate
space and had more time toreflect, more time to sit, more
time to follow my faithpractices, it wasn't until then
that I realized, wow, thereactually is a space For my faith
(36:19):
in how I approach decisions, andover time, what that developed
into is a little acronym that Iuse to keep myself on track. So
I love to share it with theaudience. So the acronym is
grasp, so the first letter is G,and what I realized as I look
(36:39):
back over my life and some ofthe decisions that I made,
personally and professionally,is that I didn't always gather
enough information. Sometimes Irushed into a decision because I
felt pressured. You know,there's this deadline, there's
this thing that we've got to do,or I was just really excited
about it. I could see so muchpotential in it, and because I
(37:00):
felt good about it, and eventhough I may have prayed about
it a little bit here and there,but more so as I went along, I
just was like, Oh, this has gotto be good. This has got to be a
good thing. It looks good. I'mgoing to go ahead and do it. And
one of the things that I'velearned is, you know what, Tam,
sometimes you really just needto slow down. You need to ask
them more questions. You need todo some more research. You need
(37:22):
to maybe ask some people abouttheir experience. If it's
something that someone thatyou're looking at going into
business with, you need to taketime, slow down, gather some
information, and that will helpyou make better decisions. The R
is for reflection. So once youhave gathered this information.
It's really important to me.
I've learned I need space. Ineed to pause a little bit. I
(37:45):
need to digest this information.
I need to try to discern what Ishould take away from it.
Because sometimes, especially inthis day and age, we have so
many tools at our disposal. It'snot just like back in the day
where you had an encyclopedia tolook up, to look in, or to go to
library like at your fingertips,you can type a couple of words
(38:07):
in Google and get all of thisback. And now, in the age of AI,
we can leverage chat, GPT andall these other tools to get
information overload. Socreating space to really reflect
on what I have gathered isreally important. The A stands
for ask for guidance. And as aperson of faith, for me, that is
(38:27):
two fold. One, I'm asking forthat spiritual guidance. Of
course, I'm doing that everyday, and everything that I'm
doing anyway, but this is a veryintentional, specific time on
this particular decision thatI'm looking to make, asking God
for guidance on this, the paththat I should take, and at the
same time also asking peoplethat are really knowledgeable
about this subject. You know, Irecognize, looking back, that a
(38:51):
lot of decisions that I made, Iprobably could have saved myself
some heartache, some money, somelost time by just asking people
that were wise, that hadexperience in that space about
what their advice would be. So Ais asking for guidance. The S is
the part that I find to bereally fun, but again, many
(39:12):
times I had skipped the stepsleading up to this, and that's
coming up with a strategy. Okay,now I want to strategize, but I
want to make sure that I'mstrategizing wisely based on the
information that I've gathered.
I've given myself time toreflect. I've asked for
guidance. What does this allsay? You know, how can I put
together a plan to start movingin a direction that I believe
(39:33):
that I need to go in, but maybenot, you know, go all in, maybe
not. Put all of my eggs in onebasket. How can I be wise about
the first steps that I'm goingto take? And then once I have
come up with that strategy,which may also mean that I need
input from others in developingthat, then I'm ready to proceed
in faith. And again, the faithis not, of course, the you know,
(39:56):
my. Values are undergirdingeverything that I do, but when I
talk about faith here, it's moreabout just just believing in
that resilience that we talkedabout earlier. It's not proceed
in faith. I am 100% sure thateverything is going to work out
exactly like I thought it would,according to this plan that I
(40:18):
developed, but it's a beliefthat, hey, some things are going
to work out, some things aren't,but I am resilient enough that I
am going to be able to keepgoing. I'm going to be able to
figure out what works that andwhat doesn't, and eventually I'm
going to get to the place that Ineed to be, which, interestingly
enough, in my experience, Mickis not always the place that I
(40:39):
started off going to, but I endup where I am supposed to be. So
that's what faith based decisionmaking looks like for me these
days.
Mick Spiers (40:50):
That's really good, Tam. I'm going to play back to
you some of the things thatyou've just said, but also
things that have built up for methrough our conversation. And
the first one, I'm going to keepon coming back to the things
that you've said, where yousaid, Oh, something just didn't
feel right. Okay. So, so interms of the faith based
decision making in business, I'mextrapolating a little bit here,
(41:11):
and I'm testing it with you, andthen I'm going to come to the
Grasp framework as to how itmight show up. So I'm going to
say to the audience, if you'rein business, and you're making a
decision, but something doesn'tfeel right. That might be
alerting you to the decisionyou're about to base, about to
make is maybe contrary to yourvalues. You can call it
(41:33):
intuition, you can call it gutfeeling, but I think it's
signaling to you, hang on asecond pause that doesn't feel
right. It's trying to tell yousomething, and what I'm trying
to say here is, is to look, ifyou're looking at making a
decision and look on surface, itlooks like a good business
decision, but it doesn't feelright, then it's not the right
decision. If you're looking at adecision that is aligned with
(41:57):
your values, but is a badbusiness decision, then it's the
wrong decision. So we're lookingto always not, not to be at the
expense of the other. So a goodbusiness decision shouldn't be
at the expense of your values,and a good values based decision
shouldn't be at the expense ofyour business, is what I'm
trying to say here. So if you'regetting that feeling, then pause
(42:20):
and grasp gather more data,reflect on what that data means,
ask from guidance, from whoeverthat is that you trust to give
you some guidance. Have astrategy on what the first step
might be, and then to proceedwith faith and the proceed with
faith. Tam, it came back to thatHenry Ford thing for me, if, if
you start out on a journeythinking it's going to fail.
(42:41):
It's it's going to fail.
Starting out on the journeythinking it's going to succeed
doesn't automatically mean it'sgoing to succeed, but it's got a
better chance now, right? Soabsolutely, so proceed with
faith. Otherwise, don't proceed.
If you go, Ah, whatever. Let'stry. If you, if you're starting
the conversation with let's try.
It's not going to work. It's notgoing to work. You have to. Once
(43:03):
you've decided you need toproceed with faith, how does a
let's hit with you. This, thisgut feeling, this balancing
between, don't make a decisionthat compromises one or the
other. And then if you findyourself in that situation,
pause, it's the wrong decision.
Pause, pause and gather,reflect, ask for guidance,
(43:24):
develop a strategy and proceedwith faith.
Tamara Jackson (43:27):
Yeah, I love the way that you sum that up, Mick,
because I think it describes howcomplex making decisions really
is. You know, one of the thingsthat I've realized is I can't
remember. I don't know if youhad this experience. Mick, but I
can't remember anybody actuallysitting me down at any point in
(43:47):
my 51 years to say, hey, Tam,here's how you make decisions.
So I think we kind of pick upways. We observe other people.
We might read this or that. Wemight pick up something from
here or there, but there's not awhole lot of hey, this is the
framework. This is the path thatyou take when you're making a
(44:11):
decision. And sometimes they'rereally big decisions, and
sometimes they may seem likesmall decisions, but often have
big consequences. And so thetension that you've described
does resonate with me is I'mtrying to find that balance
between my values and what is agood sound decision. And for me,
(44:31):
being able to come up with thisacronym was the answer for that,
because until I had it, I wastrying different things here and
there, and I was thinking that Iwas kind of, you know, going
through the steps that I neededto take, and it wasn't until I
was able to put to papersomething that I can literally,
when I first started out withthis, I wrote it down a lot like
(44:54):
I would literally write down myanswers to each piece of it,
like out either in my phone.
Phone, or sometimes I'm kind ofold school, I would write it in
a notebook, and I still do thatin some instances. But there are
also many times where I'mliterally, like in my mind,
going through these steps tomake sure that I'm not
forgetting something, that I'mnot overlooking something
(45:15):
important. Because we have thisability as humans, once we get
really excited about something,we can talk ourselves into it.
And so this has been a reallyimportant journey for me to get
to a place where I'm able to bemore objective. I think that's
the word that comes to mind as Ithink about this, is being able
to be more objective in mydecisions and not just lead with
(45:38):
my feelings, because sometimesmy feelings can get me in
trouble.
Mick Spiers (45:45):
Yeah, really good, Tam, and that's also a very
aware situation, to understandthat your feelings are part of
that decision, not it doesn'thave to be the decision. But if
you're doing this graspframework, you're bringing it
all in together. So you're notgoing to a Excel spreadsheet
where everything is going to bevery academic. Either you're not
(46:05):
ignoring the feelings, butyou're not. Yeah, it's it's that
balance. It's really good. Tam,look, you've given us so many
great things to to think aboutin today's show. I'm going to
reflect on some of them and takeus to our final round of our
Rapid Round questions. So you'vereally made a stop and think
about not just impact, butmeaningful impact. Where can you
(46:27):
find meaningful impact in yourcurrent job or around you? Where
can you find meaningful impact?
Instead of just striving forsuccess, strive for
significance, to be significantto others around you to be that
beacon. It could be a beacon ofhope that people need right now,
but to be that beacon thatpeople can gravitate towards,
that you can show up as a faithbased leader and be authentic
(46:51):
and be true to yourself, be trueto your values. Who are you?
What do you stand for? Whatwon't you stand for? And let
that be your compass when you'remaking decisions and how you
show up as a leader. And ifsomething doesn't feel right,
check in with yourself. Use thisframework, this grasp framework,
(47:11):
to gather more information, toreflect, to ask for guidance, to
have a strategy and then proceedwith faith. But don't ignore the
signal. If it doesn't feelright, it's telling you
something. And get more curiousbefore you make that decision.
All right. Tim, absolutely lovethis. Let's go to our final four
(47:32):
questions. These are the samefour questions that we ask all
of our guests. So what's the onething you know now? Tamara
Jackson, that you wish you knewwhen you were 20?
Tamara Jackson (47:44):
Yeah, I think the first thing that comes to
mind is Enjoy your youth,because it goes fast. What I
mean by that is, you know, I canremember being a teenager, being
in such a rush to grow up, likeI wanted to have a job, I wanted
to have a car, I wanted to haveall those things. And now that I
know what being an adult and allthe responsibilities that come
(48:06):
with being an adult, I wouldtell myself, listen, don't be in
such a rush. Enjoy your youth.
Take more chances. I was in arush to get in a stable career
and have all of these things. IfI had known then what I know
now, I think I would have takenmore chances, and I would have
enjoyed being a young adult andnot being in such a rush to get
older fast.
Mick Spiers (48:30):
Oh, this is so true, Tam. We spend our first
years wanting to be older. Wespend our last years. Oh, I
wish.
Tamara Jackson (48:36):
I was ready to be young.
Mick Spiers (48:41):
What is your favorite book, Tam?
Tamara Jackson (48:44):
Yeah, this is, this is tough, because if you
guys were to zoom out into myoffice, I have literally
hundreds of books. So for you toask a person like me what my
favorite book is, is really,really challenging, but here,
here's the answer that comes topof mind for me. My favorite book
(49:05):
is Jesus calling. It's a verysmall book that just has a short
devotional in it for each day.
It makes a relationship forthose that can identify with my
beliefs, it makes a relationshipwith Christ personal, and so I
really appreciate being able tohave that short encouragement as
a start to my day and reallyground me and get me in a place
(49:27):
where I realize, okay, I'm notalone in this world. I have, you
know, that support that I need,and just getting that little
dose of information really makesa difference for my day. So
that's my answer for today.
Mick Spiers (49:45):
I can definitely see the meaning for you. That's
really good. Tim, what's yourfavorite quote?
Tamara Jackson (49:50):
That is tough too. But you know what? When you
asked me, you told me thisquestion was coming earlier, the
quote that came to mind is aquote. Quote by Jim Rohn, and
he's no longer with us, but wasa really popular motivational
speaker, and I used to have itwhen I was in corporate. I used
to have it actually taped on mycubicle, and he said, don't wish
(50:14):
it were easier. Wish you werebetter. He also had this sailing
about this saying about notwishing for a smooth seas, but
wanting to be a better sailor,or something to that effect.
What I took from those quotes,and I had no idea of, you know,
the ups and downs that I waswould experience in my life, but
(50:36):
it gave me perspective. Is like,don't wish for things to be
easier, because the reality oflife is we are going to have
those those tough moments. Buthow can I become stronger? How
can I become more resilient? Howcan I become more grounded? How
can I remain optimistic, evenwhen there are times when it
(50:57):
doesn't seem like there'sanything to be optimistic about.
That is a skill that I think cancarry us through some really
difficult situations.
Mick Spiers (51:06):
Really good, Tam, you had me captivated there with
all of that. And yeah, we doneed to stop and reframe these
things. It's really great. Andfinally, Tamara Jackson, how do
people find you? There's goingto be people listening to this.
They could be at any end of thatspectrum, but I'm going to say
there's going to be people thatgo that do want to be a faith
based leader and and be true totheir values and beliefs. How do
(51:30):
people find you if they'd liketo know more?
Tamara Jackson (51:33):
Yeah, so I would, I would share a couple of
ways. LinkedIn is the platformthat I hang out on most, and I
actually talk about both on thatplatform. So I'd love for you to
connect with me on LinkedIn.
Tamara Jackson, you'll be ableto find me there, and you'll see
both beacon ship and leadReviver. If being inspired by
beacons is of interest to you. Iwould love for you to find us on
(51:55):
YouTube the beacon show. We'verecorded two seasons of episodes
with faith driven leaders in allspaces. So some operate in
ministry. Some operate multimillion dollar corporations.
It's been really fun and cool.
Some are in the arts, in moviesand theater. It's been really
(52:17):
cool to sit down with people andunpack some of the leadership
lessons that they've learnedalong the way. So I'd love for
you to subscribe to the beaconshow on YouTube, and then if you
want to be a part of thebeaconship community, you can
visit us @beaconship.co and ifAI is something that tickles
your fancy and you want to see,well, how does a person leverage
(52:40):
AI for actually a business case.
I'd love for you to visit ourwebsite @leadreviver.pro Mick,
thank you for the opportunity toshare today.
Mick Spiers (52:51):
All right, brilliant. Tam, absolutely
wonderful. Thank you. You aretruly a beacon. You're a beacon,
and I have love listening to youtoday. Thank you for sharing
your time with us today, butalso for authentically sharing
sharing with us your values andbeliefs. And I certainly walk
away from this conversationricher and wiser than when we
began. Thank you.
Tamara Jackson (53:12):
Awesome. Thank you, Mick.
Mick Spiers (53:14):
What a powerful conversation with Tamara Jackson
as you reflect on tomorrow'sjourney, ask yourself this,
where do my deepest values needto show up more boldly in how I
lead this week? Who needs me tobe a beacon right now? And what
small act of belief, resilienceor gratitude could I offer them?
And if my calendar reflected myconvictions, what would change
(53:37):
first? If you enjoyed this, makesure you check out tomorrow's
work, subscribe to the beaconshow on YouTube, or explore the
beacon ship community. And asalways, if this episode sparks
something in you, share it witha leader who's ready to show up
with courage and heart. In thenext episode, we'll be joined by
Phil Wilson, seven times authorand advocate for creating
(54:00):
extraordinary workplaces wherewe'll be talking about
approachable leadership andshrinking the power distance
between boss and employee.
Thank you for listening to TheLeadership Project,
mickspiers.com a huge call outto Faris Sedek for his video
editing of all of our videocontent and to all of the team
(54:23):
at TLP. Joan Gozon, GeraldCalibo And my amazing wife Sei
Spiers, I could not do this showwithout you. Don't forget to
subscribe to The LeadershipProject YouTube channel where we
bring you interesting videoseach and every week, and you can
follow us on social,particularly on LinkedIn,
Facebook and Instagram. Now inthe meantime, please do take
(54:45):
care, look out for each otherand join us on this journey as
we learn together and leadtogether.
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