Should you get rid of a poor performing employee?

In today's episode, we'll answer the question: Should you get rid of a poor-performing employee?

It's an age-old, notoriously difficult question for leaders... but it is 100% solvable.

We'll unpack the question, discuss strategies and give you practical tips to take away and apply back with your own team.

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Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:01):
All right, today we are getting stuck in with a
wonderful topic on whether ornot you should move someone on
from your team. Now, this is notan easy topic is it? It's been
quite topical lately, especiallywith the talent crunch, you
know, we're short staffedeveryone short staffed, the
talent just isn't in the market,people are not putting up with

(00:22):
nonsense. Replacing people isincredibly difficult. And that
shouldn't be the defaultconsideration. We would never
advocate for that. I definitelywouldn't. But it's a
consideration, right? If youhave people on your team, and
you're going to move one on,potentially, you might not be
able to fill that role formonths or weeks, or whatever it
is. So factoring that is, is acritical consideration. It

(00:45):
really is.
But let's park that bit for now,as we come to the broader issue
in the question for today, whichis, should I move a person on
from my team?
It's an interesting one, right?
Because I've heard a lot lately,leader saying things like, oh,
you know, that person's just notvery good at their job, or that
person really doesn't get thevalues here? Or hey, you know,

(01:08):
I'mI just don't think they can get
there. So I'm going to flip thisquestion on its head, because I
think the precursor to thisquestion is far more important
than this question itself. Andthe precursor to this question
that I always lead into withcoaching is, what have you done
to test whether this personshould stay on the team?

(01:36):
And they'll go, Well, I've giventhem lots of chances. Or you
might think, well, they've beenhere long enough? Well, that's
not really a test. That's justkind of saying they should have
figured it out by now. And I'mreally bullish on this idea of
being anti well, they shouldhave figured it out by now.
So today, when we unpick thisquestion, I'm going to give you

(01:58):
the criteria that I look at notall of them, because that's a
very long conversation. But whatare some of the criteria you
need to get stuck into so youcan go sh1t, they're really not
clued in and ready or? Allright, it's time let's do it,
get the rip the band aid off andget them out of here.
Now, how do you know you've putin the effort? How do you know
you've tested it correctly? Andhow do you know you've set them

(02:18):
up for success? So there's areally good analogy that's used
in kind of strategic executionaround a bus. And I think it's
still a really salient one, itworks well, that kind of gives
you a mental image of it. Andthat is, if you're heading
somewhere as a team, or anorganization or a group of
project, people working onsomething as what's the bus

(02:39):
first we ask? So what's thebutler? What's this thing look
like in terms ofcomposition? Really? And then
where's it going? Right, sowhere are we going with this
bus? Then once we know that,what that goal is eg Where are
we going? We can go? Well, whatare the seats on the bus? And
the seats are really well? Whatare the jobs to be done? And who
sits in each of those jobs? Andthen we get to wall? Who is the

(03:03):
person sat in that seat? Whatare the attributes of them? What
skills do they have? How do theyget those jobs done? So if you
think about that, what's thedirection? What are the people
we need on the team? And whatare the skills and attributes
and behaviors of those teammembers? Think about that hold
that in your mind as we workthrough the rest of the topic

(03:23):
today. And it's really a goodanalogy to carry forward.
Because there's so many timeswhen people are talking about
strategy, and we're doingstrategic planning with clients.
I go, Well, what are the seatswe're talking about here? And
they can't answer that questionor go, well, what's the skill of
the person sat in that seat? Oh,I haven't really, you know, it's
not clear. So that's where Itake you to today's topic, if
you've defined the direction thebus is going in, right? So we

(03:44):
know where we're trying to goand achieve. We've defined the
seat. So we know there's somejobs to be done. But we haven't
defined the skills, theattributes, what good looks like
how they're contributing withother members, aka other seats
on the bus. Well, how can youeven hope to answer the question
of well, should I move them on?

(04:06):
And you'd be shocked at howoften when I say things like,
tell me about how you're feelingabout the staff member? Let's do
that today. Picture the staffmember you have in your mind or
someone on your team. In pastwhen you've had to do this and
you go, I'm not really sure ifthey're a good fit, I kind of
want to move them on. Picturethat person in your head. Now
want you to answer the followingthings for me.
One, what's the seat that I'veput them in?

(04:30):
What are the attributes of thatseat? What are the objectives?
What are the KPIs it needs toachieve? What's the plan? What
really clearly what is the jobof that seat to achieve?
Can you define that? Can youexplain that to me?
If you can't, well, how the h3llcan they? And you'd be shocked

(04:51):
at the number of people who sayOh, well, you know, it kind of
looks a bit like this and wallchanges from week to week and I
go, Okay, first x Majan that bigred X on this first exercise
well, how the h3ll can theyachieve a goal and be a good fit
for this team? If you don't evenknow what that looks like,
strike, right strike walk. Thennext I go okay, okay, okay,

(05:12):
let's park that for now I wantyou to go and do some homework,
figure that out. And today ifyou can't answer that question,
you need to go away and figurethat out. That's the first piece
of advice. Second is, maybe youcan define that seat, or you've
committed to going away anddefining it will say, Well, what
is good look like in that seat?
You know, what are theattributes? How does the person
behave? How do they engage withother people? What are some of

(05:34):
the things they're doing reallywell? How are they passing
information to you? You know,what a success get measured?
Based on if you can't answerthose questions, and that's
Strike two. So for example, ifI've got a clear thing I need to
achieve on a second part or sokind of component of this role.

(05:54):
And I've defined that this isthe goal that needs to be
achieved, but haven't definedtheir skills needed to achieve
that and what their specificrole and path is for that, well,
then I haven't set them up forsuccess. So now when I asked
that question, in coaching, Isay, Well, tell me about their
skills like what are they ableto kind of handle customers?
While are they managingprojects, like what's required

(06:16):
to execute on this? Again, ifthat can't be answered, then
there's that struck?
So we need to get clear on thisseat. Okay, what's the things
it's achieving, and the personin the seat? What are their
skills and behaviors and kind ofmeasurements for them
specifically? Now, once you'vedone those two, I then turn your

(06:37):
attention to the third elementhere where you can either get a
tick or a strike, which isgive me some specific examples,
scenarios, occurrences,memories, recollections,
whatever they are measurementsrecently, of where they have
performed or not performedagainst that seat, and the
definition of those skills ofthe person in that seat.

(07:01):
Like, oh, you know, they kind ofdid this. And I go, Well, how
does? How does that fit into therole description in the things
you've asked them to do? Haveyou been clear? Did they have a
clear set of expectations? Dothey know that you're measuring
this? Do they know what you wantto be reported back as a result
of that? If you can't do any ofthose things? And how can you

(07:22):
possibly expect the person tosucceed? Imagine me saying to
you, I've appointed you, asmanager of this team, look at I
don't really have the time orthe clarity to say to you, what
I'll be measuring you on, Ihaven't really checked, if you
even know what that looks like,Please don't bother me too much
with your questions. And a monthor two from now I come and sit

(07:42):
you down and go like, I don'treally think you're performing
very well. I'm concerned aboutyour performance and fit with
this team. Imagine that.
And I see that quite often.
So if you're doing those threethings, you're not doing those
three things, you either getticks or crosses. And then what
that allows us to do to answerthe question of, should I move

(08:02):
this person on from the team?
Should they stay on this team ornot? Is to go well, how have you
managed the lack of performance?
So if the person hasn'tperformed well? What feedback?
Have you given them? Have yougone? Hey, you know, let's take
a look at this. This is notgood. Here's what good would
look like, or, Hey, come talk tome about what happened here, I'd

(08:23):
like to better understand yourthinking when you did that
thing. These are reallyimportant feedback mechanisms,
you know, in your one on ones,and if you say you're not having
one on ones, you and me aregonna have a conversation, but
in your regular one on ones withthe team member, are you giving
them feedback? And are yougiving them that feedback in
between those one on ones? Ifnot, again? Well? How? How can
that possibly lead to behavioralchange, if they're not aware?

(08:46):
It's like people inrelationships, they get to a
break point. They don't sayanything to their partners they
get, it gets worse and worse andworse, and bottles, bottles
bottles, and then there's thisbig event where they're like, I
don't think this is working. Youhave decided that maybe we
should part ways, you know,like, wait, what, like what's
happened here? How did we get tothis place happens with
relationships with friendships,and with work, the leaders carry

(09:08):
around an immense amount ofstress, the role you are in as a
leader is f*cking stressful.
There's no denying that. But areyou carrying around this bottled
up feedback that you haven'thanded out? Candidate to them?
See how they respond? You'd beshocked at how many team members
once you give them a bit offeedback. Oh, okay, fine. Yeah,
I need to do better. Now, somewill not. I'm not blind to that.

(09:29):
And that my job here isn't topreach to you. My job here is to
give you the tools and thethinking to be a f*cking amazing
leader. And to do that, you haveto give people feedback. Now for
the ones that come back to thatfeedback and go, I don't agree,
or I don't like it. I don'tthink there's a problem. Then
that's where we start to get adifferent answer to that
question of should I move themon? If you give them the

(09:51):
feedback, they make the change,they're open to it or they're at
least trying and they need someskills or some further coaching
you rate, it's always easier toimprove or retain a staff member
than it is to recruit becauserecruiting is a gamble. And you
might end up with someone worsethan the current one or the
person might not accept theoffer. And then you're back to

(10:12):
recruiting. And even the salarycost of that, you know, you're
talking about 30 to 50%, in thestats of salary burned to
recruit a replacement, justbetween the handover and the
gaps and the recruitment costs.
It just gets really, reallyexpensive. So if you can turn
around a mediocre or poorperforming staff member, that's
sure as sh1t a better optionthan going to market.

(10:35):
Now, if they say, Nope, don'tagree, not interested, don't
want to play this game don'tcare. Great. Now, as the leader,
I know this is crystal clear. SoI work back through all that
checklist. Yes, I've defined theseat. I've defined the roles and
attributes of the person on thebus, I've been really explicit
in those expectations. And I'veeven been giving them feedback

(10:55):
to tick, tick, tick, tick tickacross those four areas. And
they say, Nope, not interested.
Cool. Performance Management.
Here we come. And you go, Oh,but I don't want to lose them.
It's like, but do you reallywant someone on your team? Who
says to you, either throughtheir behaviors or explicitly, I
don't want to change? Do youwant that person on your team?

(11:17):
H3ll no. Because that is goingto have a toxic effect on you,
and stress you out, it's goingto have a toxic effect on your
team, because they're gonna goWhy the h3ll is the boss letting
this person stick around. Andthat's going to have a brand and
reputation damage to your team,your business and to the
perception of those customerswho experience it. You cannot
allow someone toxic to stay onyour team. And I often will say

(11:40):
to people, and I've done this inmy own business, I would rather
have a vacancy and empty seatthan to have someone toxic and
destructive sitting in theredoing the work but doing a poor
job or damaging the brand or theteam, you are much better off to
have that vacancy in the shortterm than to have someone who
causes massive damage for youboth wellbeing wise and

(12:01):
reputation wise.
So that's the answer today tothe question of, should I move a
staff member on work throughthose four areas that we've
covered? And that gives you areally good starting place? As
always, we've answered onequestion today, and we will
answer one question intomorrow's episode as well. If
you enjoy the podcast, pleasesubscribe and share. It's always
good to see more and more peoplelistening every day as we

(12:24):
publish content. But as you'llsee, these are 15 Minutes or
Less generally, and they giveyou one topic area to progress
in take away back into theworkplace. I've been your host,
Travis Thomas, check us out onour website and I look forward
to seeing you next time. Stayawesome.