What does it take to grow from a 16-year-old garnish guy to a leadership consultant shaping kitchen culture nationwide?
In this episode of The Leadership Table, host Jason E. Brooks sits down with Simon Zatyrka, founder of Culinary Mechanic, to unpack lessons learned from decades in the trenches of the hospitality industry.
In This Episode, We Cover:
✅ Simon’s journey from the line to leadership
✅ The leadership rejection that became his turning point
✅ Building a positive and productive kitchen culture
✅ Why asking more questions makes you a better leader
✅ The importance of systems, recipes, and communication in restaurant operations
✅ Believing in your team’s desire to succeed
About Simon Zatyrka:
Simon is the founder of Culinary Mechanic, where he helps restaurant leaders streamline operations, build stronger teams, and create sustainable kitchen cultures. Learn more at https://culinarymechanic.com.
Connect with Simon:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonzatyrka/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/culinary.mechanic/
Listen & Subscribe:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/09DHB9DjHpQEcV4SSwstx1
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-leadership-table/id1810437949
RSS Feed: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/2471668.rss
Follow Jason E. Brooks for more leadership insights:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-e-brooks/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/2LeadnSucceed/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpAeHGYZ50evlJ2KjH2oDvQ
X (Twitter): https://twitter.com/2LeadnSucceed
Website:
https://www.jasonebrooks.com
If you found value in today’s conversation, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with another leader!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jason E. Brooks (00:05):
Oh man, welcome to the leadership table, where
conversations inspire, lead andelevate.
I'm your host, jason E Brooks,bringing you insights from top
leaders who are shapingindustries through leadership,
culture and success.
And today we're joined by myman, simon Zatyrka, a chef
(00:27):
turned consultant and thefounder of Culinary Mechanic.
Simon's journey from a16-year-old garnish guy to
leading multiple high-volumerestaurants and now advising
culinary operations is nothingshort of inspiring.
Through culinary mechanic, hefocuses on the human aspects of
(00:48):
running restaurants, emphasizingleadership systems and culture.
Before we dive in, be sure tosubscribe and share this episode
with fellow leaders who couldbenefit from today's discussion,
simon, welcome to theleadership table, my man.
We have traveled together,we've been doing shows, we have
(01:12):
had bourbon and wings,appetizers and great
conversation, and now I get thepleasure of having you on my
podcast.
Thank you, sir.
Simon Zatyrka (01:24):
Man, the pleasure is mine.
Thank you, jason.
I just gotta say you saidgarnish guy yeah, put a little
sprinkle in there.
No, no no man lettuce, tomatocheese, olive lettuce tomato
cheese and if it's fajitas,lettuce, tomato cheese, olive
(01:44):
cheese, olive, scoop of guac,scoop of sour, scoop of pico,
that was my life for a year.
Jason E. Brooks (01:50):
That is it, the disher scoops?
Yes, sir.
Simon Zatyrka (01:53):
Yes, sir.
Jason E. Brooks (01:55):
All day long.
So you know you are well knownin the culinary space, well
known in the culinary space.
But I want you to give mylisteners a brief introduction
about your journey from yourfirst job through the kitchen
(02:15):
into culinary mechanic.
Simon Zatyrka (02:21):
Man.
I started being the garnish guyat 16, in 1989.
Uh, I tell people that was whenthe first george bush was still
in office.
Um, and I did a year of that.
And then I I said, okay, I'mgoing to college and I had
really good grades.
I'm like the nerdy kid right,right, 3.93, I think.
(02:45):
And I went to the University ofMassachusetts and instantly I
could feel it.
I was like these are not myfucking people.
Pardon me for swearing rightout the gate, but you know it is
what it is.
These are not my people.
And so I looked around and Ithought long and hard about what
(03:07):
it is I was enjoying in life.
And nothing made me happierthan when I was done with my,
with my studies and and allthose things.
Um, in mathematics, by the way,that's, that was my, my initial
major.
And when I was done with that, Igot to go cook in the evenings
and on the weekends and I was atmy most alive.
So I said, all right, I'm gonnaquit school, I'm gonna cook.
And I just went on this journeyof cooking.
(03:27):
I was cooking in the morning, Iwas cooking at night.
On occasion I was cooking thirdshift and I was trying not to
do all three at once, butsometimes it happened, um, and
just like, just roll throughthat.
I went through them like littledinky, tiny restaurants and all
of a sudden I started.
I found hotel restaurants wherethey wore chef coats.
I was like, oh shit, look atthis paper hats the whole bit.
(03:49):
Um, and then like hotel, okay,cool hotel.
And then I was in new mexico atthe time when I first started
and then all of a sudden I saidnope, I'm gonna do something
different and I hustled my assto florida and I found myself in
where was I?
I was in Indian Rocks Beach,florida, which is right on the
outside of Tampa Bay, and I gotmyself into a little tiny
(04:12):
restaurant within a day of beingthere.
That lasted six weeks becausethey were.
They were a little tinyrestaurant and I just had bigger
thoughts.
So I went to the Sheridan thatwas there and I did that, and
then I, you know, I got anopportunity to be the chef in a
restaurant, in the Chef.
I was nowhere near the Chef.
I was 23 years old and I went toProvincetown, mass and I was
(04:34):
the chef for a summer and ittaught me everything.
I needed to know that I to knowthat I was not the chef yet.
And so I said, okay, take iteasy, go back to Florida, go
back to cooking.
And I just kept on and I wasreading, and I was reading
magazines and I was readingbooks, and I just decided that I
was going to create my owncurriculum because I wasn't in
(04:57):
the position to take myself toculinary school, so I was going
to have to find a way to just dothe thing, let's see.
And then I went to Californiaand I found myself cooking for
four seasons and then a Relayand Chateau property.
That was like where JFK spenthis honeymoon.
(05:20):
And then I found myself in LAand I was working for the Pat
patina group, which is now thismassive entity on both coasts.
But at the time there were 26restaurants and they were
growing at an exponential paceand it was grindy and it was hot
, and it was the kitchens thateverybody that watches the bear
like has nightmares about now,like shit getting thrown,
(05:41):
yelling, screaming, and theremarkable part about that was
that that was for a company, nota single restaurant, but we
still had, in 2003, thatatmosphere of fear.
Um, and then keep going a coupleyears.
Big properties, you know,high-end hotels, um, and just
(06:04):
doing crushing.
I was like an ox.
I felt I was putting on theyoke and I was getting bigger
roles and I was doing more and Iwas getting great results and
fast forward a couple years.
And I I go for this one uh joband the lady says you know, I
hear great things about you,you're amazing, you're a doer,
(06:25):
you, you get stuff done.
She says, but I'm not gonnahire you for this job because
you're not the leader that I'mlooking for.
And that crushed me um, and fromthat day forward I really
started paying attention.
I mean, I came home and I wasweeping a little bit.
My wife looks at me and shegoes okay, next day I, she comes
home and she flips leadershipfor dummies at me.
(06:47):
And then the next day, like twodays after that, she flips uh,
maxwell's little leadership 101at me.
Boom, she goes you're not aleader, figure it out.
Read it like ask questions.
Okay, um, and that began thenext journey.
It it was just leading, leading, leading.
And I was like, eh, it was okay, you know.
And then I worked for a guy no,I'm sorry, this guy worked for
(07:10):
me.
And it changed everything oneday when I said hey, we need a
new saute cook Because we'retaking the saute cook, putting
him on the grill, because wejust lost the grill guy.
Can that dishwasher back?
Do you think he has the?
Do you like, do you think hecould do it?
And the lead cook goes ofcourse he can do it.
And I said, yeah, but this is ahard.
He says no, jefe, you have to,you have to believe only in
(07:36):
their desire.
He says I can teach them therest, you can teach them the
rest.
He says but if you, if youbelieve in their desire to get
the job done and to to learn,then everything will be okay and
that really changed things andit holds.
The big piece of the back of myhead is is desire, and in in
(07:57):
spanish it's ganas right, it'sright in the fire in the belly.
Okay, still moving forward.
All of us go go forward another15 years and I've hit a place
where I cannot be in the kitchenanymore.
Um, I've become a leader whofarms, lead farm sous chefs,
like green beans baby, like Igot sous chefs coming up in the
(08:18):
company I'm working for.
I'm uh, just before I left theindustry, I I had four
restaurants under my finger andwe were just growing and you
know we would look at cooks andsay he or she is ready to be a
lead cook.
The lead cook, that one's readyto be a sous chef, that one's
(08:38):
ready to be a sous chef in a bigstore, and just on and on and
on.
We just kept growing andgrowing and developing and then
I got to the end and I realizedthat I didn't want to do that
anymore.
The company I was working forwasn't as much fun as it had
been.
I think COVID had a lot to dowith that.
And then my wife said you needto stop and you need to think
(09:03):
about how you can make moneysome other way that keeps you
closer to home.
That doesn't make you less.
Make you make it so that you'renot fun when you're not working
, because you used to be fun andI tolerate she's like I
tolerated the fact that you weredriven and hardworking because
you came home and we had a goodtime.
But now you come home andyou're grumpy and you're tired
(09:25):
and sometimes you're depressed.
She says so fuck all that,let's find something new.
So I listened, because she'sthe boss, and I took four months
off and this magic thingstarted happening.
The phone started ringing hey,simon, can you, can you, um, can
(09:46):
you go help this guy with aproject?
He needs a menu, costed andthere's probably other stuff to
dig into.
But can you go do that?
I'd really appreciate it.
Yes, I can.
Two months later, hey, uh,completely different person.
Hey, I just got a call fromthis guy.
He's got a nonprofitorganization and they just need
some technical help.
Can you like, can you just gohelp them dig out of their hole?
(10:08):
I'm like yes, I can.
Boom, uh, two months later Iget a.
I get a text from one of theguys who used to work for me and
then became the guy who tookover my spot when I left the
company and he goes I just got acall from somebody who I really
trust and admire and she needssome leadership help for her
chefs.
Can you go help with that?
And I was like, yeah, and nowI've got three clients.
(10:31):
I'm a consultant and I'mlooking around going, oh, I
guess I'm consulting.
And the culinary mechanic thinghad been almost a joke 10 years
previous it.
It was the product of me notfeeling like the job was sexy
anymore.
Right, like I didn't get to, Ididn't have fun.
(10:52):
Creating it was just take itapart, put it back together,
tune it up, move right.
And that was day in, day outand I'm like I'm just a culinary
mechanic.
And then one day, as many thingshappen, I'm walking the dogs
and I'm like I need a name forthis, for my company, and I need
to do an LLC.
I'm going to do a thing.
I'm a consultant, culinarymechanic is the way and that's
(11:14):
it, man.
That's where I am.
And now I really focus onhelping chefs and restaurant
owners, sometimes separately,sometimes together hone in on
their operations.
It almost always comes down toapplying some leadership
principles, which is why this issuch a fun conversation to have
(11:36):
with you.
And you know it's leadership.
It's trying to create somegreat culture.
Lately I've been saying, sayingwhat we're going to do is
create the way, and if yourrestaurant is called Jimmy's,
then it's Jimmy's way.
We want that to exist and wewant that to sort of live in
perpetuity.
(11:56):
That's where I'm at man.
That's what I'm doing.
Jason E. Brooks (12:01):
Zero to 100.
You have said it many times andI know it's true, but everyone
loves that logo, that logo ofthe uh knife with the fork.
Is that correct?
Simon Zatyrka (12:14):
knife and a spoon .
Spoon, knife and a spoon.
I screwed that okay.
Jason E. Brooks (12:19):
Knife inside a gear and and the gear behind it
around it.
That right there says it sayseverything.
And then the taste everythingmantra that you also have, um,
is very true.
I don't care if it's a fast,casual, brand, quick service, a
(12:42):
fine dining, you tasteeverything.
And you taste it at every linecheck, at every single line
check, because during peakvolume that pan may have changed
out three times on, on thatnext line check, you still taste
everything.
(13:02):
Course, though, this isn't thetasting table, this is the
leadership table.
So I want to dive into a bitmore about your leadership
lessons that you've learned,having led teams in high
pressure kitchens from what?
Arizona, new Mexico, florida,arizona, new Mexico, florida,
(13:24):
all the way up to the north.
Simon Zatyrka (13:26):
Massachusetts.
Jason E. Brooks (13:27):
To Massachusetts, back down to
Florida, back across toCalifornia.
I do believe.
Simon Zatyrka (13:33):
So wherever California, Los, angeles,
oakland and now Seattle you havebeen across the nation, so with
those travels.
Jason E. Brooks (13:41):
So what key leadership lessons have you
learned that apply across thehospitality industry, whether be
it fine dining, large groups,small mom and pops or even
hotels?
What key leadership lessonshave you learned that can apply
across all of those?
Simon Zatyrka (14:03):
You know, I think the biggest.
There's a couple of them, butfor me, the number one lesson
that I've learned is, as theleader, instead of trying to be
the loudest guy in the room andkind of barging in and going,
here's the solution Like, stop,listen and begin by asking more
(14:27):
questions than you makestatements.
And I go for like four questionsto three statements and if I
can pull that off, I almostalways come out with great
consensus and solutions that,like, people are into because
I've taken the time to payattention and be aware of my
surroundings and listen.
Time to pay attention and beaware of my surroundings and
(14:51):
listen.
And that's the second lessonright there for me is pay
attention, like head up, likelook around.
If you're the leader, youshouldn't be head down, you
should be head up, payingattention to the forest, the
trees, the rocks on the ground,right, like be aware of your
surroundings.
Um, and I find that when I workwith people and I get them to
(15:12):
slow down so that they caneventually go faster than they
have ever gone before, we reallytalk about like chin up, pay
attention.
That's, that's my big one,right, man?
Jason E. Brooks (15:24):
right now, man you definitely nailed it.
Even whenever I walk peoplethrough um a session that I call
closing the gap I talk throughwhen you think about the average
restaurant leader.
We are in a high-pacedenvironment.
We are always solving issuesfrom things that have gone on.
(15:47):
We may be rushing into alocation our location we're
trying to help knock down theline, get the kitchen from being
backed up, help out on expo,knock out a truck order, knock
out some payroll, and then allof a sudden our heart rate is up
there and then we go to walkthe dining room floor.
(16:10):
But our heart rate is verydifferent than our customer, the
customer.
When you really think aboutwhat they go through as they
walk into our establishment,their heart rate has slowed down
.
They are in a much darkerenvironment.
They are in a much darkerenvironment when they're sitting
at the table looking at theirmeal.
That finally came out.
(16:31):
It's about 18 inches from theireyes.
That view from 18 inches pullsin more detail.
After they're finished staringat their meal, making sure that
it is correct, they then begineating.
They then lift their chin up.
They start viewing left toright slowly.
That detail that they've gottenfrom that 18 inches now extends
(16:55):
out about three to five feet,to the detail that's on the
walls, the details that's on thebooths, the details that's on
the chairs.
The gap is when we're walkingthrough with that heart rate
pumping because we're all overthe place in which.
That's how we're trained to,but that's a different.
That's a different view fromthe customer.
(17:19):
So going through that exerciseof closing the gap for the
operators to understand what thecustomer sees versus what they
see, all for the operators tounderstand what the customer
sees versus what they seealthough they're in the same
room, is something that reallydoes help them.
But you are absolutely spot on.
Though Now your experience,there are common operational
(17:43):
challenges that restaurants face, similar to closing the gap.
What are some of the commonchallenges that you've also seen
in different type ofrestaurants and then how can
they be addressed effectively?
Simon Zatyrka (18:02):
common problems there's not enough recipes
getting used, right.
That's kind of like we can justpush that one to the side and
we can always come back to it.
But I think for me, the bigproblem in especially back at
house, but definitelyrestaurants is we have doers and
(18:24):
they're great doers, right?
These are people that are likethey show up on time for work,
they're into their job, theywant to do more, they might even
want to make a little moremoney.
And like a supervisor positioncomes up and oftentimes it's
like oh, me, me, pick me, youknow, or sometimes you got to
root through it and find thatone that's good and more often
(18:45):
than not, unfortunately, wethrow them in there.
We hand them some keys and goit's your shift, run it right.
Um, and worse than that, goodluck, take them.
Yeah, man, like I've had thathappen to me.
Like here's your key, bro, I'llbe here at 8 am because they'll
be here at 8 30 am, okay, youknow.
Or even worse than that is lockup, but whatever.
(19:11):
And so we, sometimes it goesokay, sometimes there's training
, sometimes there's not.
But the big overarching, likealmost universal problem is we
have people who are now supposedto be in these leadership
positions that sometimes they'vegot good role models, sometimes
(19:32):
they've got training, but moreoften than not we have leaders
who don't know how to lead.
I mean, that's like partiallywhy you have a business, you
know, it's partially why I havea business, but it's that it's
like, and I get it it's hard foran independent operator to to
(19:52):
like say, okay, we're gonnatrain you to lead and and but
man, that's just everywhere andand so we get.
We get toxic environments.
I feel like we might getincrementally less fewer toxic
environments nowadays becauseit's it's less socially
acceptable to be a freak andyell at people and scream at
people um, you know, but I knowthey're still out there.
(20:15):
I just heard a story the otherday about a guy here in seattle
who you know he just lost hisshit on his team and I was like
man, it's 2025, dog, get up,wake, like, come on, you can do
it.
Here comes the future.
It's going to smack you in theface.
So, yeah, that was my two bigones.
Jason E. Brooks (20:35):
Man, you know I got to say especially that
recipes one that is so important.
I cannot agree more with theleadership.
But even going back to therecipes, even like I'm probably
home when I don't travel a lot,I try to cook at least four to
(20:57):
six days per week and I've beendoing this.
My oldest is 30.
Youngest is 17.
Have a middle that is 26 yearsold and I'm cooking for them
from day one.
I mean from day one.
I'm definitely known as the chefthat is in the house and
(21:17):
there's times that I've madedishes probably 30 times within
the year, twice per month onsome dishes maybe a bit more and
I will always still, 30 yearslater, follow the recipe.
It drives them crazy andthey're like why you've made
(21:38):
this dish, I swear, 300 times,if not 500 times.
Why do you still either look atyour phone or print out a piece
of paper and go buy the recipe?
You should know this and I'mlike it's because I'm human too.
I will have bills on my mind, Iwill have everything else work
(22:01):
whatever that's on my mind, andat the wrong moment I will
forget something and you willtaste it and you will say what
did you do, dad?
It doesn't taste the same.
Simon Zatyrka (22:12):
Tastes, like last time, yeah.
Jason E. Brooks (22:14):
It doesn't taste like last time, and that's
why I always follow and use arecipe.
It is important.
Now it sounds like you've had alot of mentors teach you things
like that, so I know you havedefinitely emphasized the
importance of mentorship in yourcareer.
(22:37):
Can you tell us how mentorshiphas shaped your leadership style
now?
Simon Zatyrka (22:47):
I think.
Well, first of all, I am, uh,one of those people like I
suffer from shiny objectsyndrome, like squirrel fuck,
I'm gone, man.
So for me, like mentorshipoftentimes meant like a quiet 10
minutes at the end of the shift, talking one-on-one, where,
(23:08):
like I gotta focus, and for methat's really important, like I
had one chef who would justscream at me focus, focus.
And when you're done with thatfocus and yes, chef, okay, okay,
I got it.
Um.
And so I think for me, likesome having somebody that
listened to what I, what wasfreaking me out on a daily basis
(23:30):
, or somebody that was payingattention to how I was working
and could then kind of give methat like little jiminy cricket
on the shoulder going you'redoing that really the hard way,
man, you know, um.
And so I think those mentorsfor me, but also like the ones I
worked with guys and gal, Iworked with this one chef and
(23:51):
she, she was.
So I don't think I thought ofher as a mentor at the time, but
when I think back to what Ilearned from her, and here is
the moment she, she looks at meand she goes do you have this?
Oh no, do you have this on thegrill?
No, do you have this on the.
Do you have this on the grill?
No, do you have this on thegrill?
No, uh, do you have this, thisor this on the grill?
(24:12):
I'm like, no, I'm behind.
And she goes.
Okay, and she goes well,fucking, get on behind, cause I
need you to, I need you to getthere.
And so I, okay, regenerativepumping, and all of a sudden
boom, I'm caught up.
And afterwards she goes come on, I'm going to go smoke a
cigarette and you can get somesecondhand smoke.
And we go out the back door andshe goes.
You know what, when push comesto shove, you are one of the
(24:35):
best at getting out of trouble.
She says but I need you to getorganized and focused enough
that you don't get into trouble.
And that changed me once again.
It just shifted me five degreesto where I went on this path of
(24:55):
like, how do I get moreorganized, how do I get so tight
and clean that someday somebodyis going to call me like the
Iceman, because I'm cold and I'mcalculated and I'm operating
right, like that was the goalfor years.
Just get to be Iceman.
And I never got there.
I worked for a couple of guyslike that was the goal for years
just just get to be ice man.
And I never got there.
I worked for a couple of guyslike that, but I know that I
became more clean, moreorganized, more focused and I
(25:16):
stopped having to scramble toget out of things right in the
end.
I created processes for myself.
I created systems for myself onhow I was going to organize
myself.
Didn't know it at the time.
All I wanted to do was likehave that lady, not like kick me
in the shins anymore.
(25:38):
But that's that was.
You know, that's that was somesome great mentoring.
And for me now it's like okay,you're going to climb the tree
and I'm going to tell you thatthat's going to hurt when you
fall out of the tree, but I'mstill gonna let you fall out of
the tree.
I might have a net for you.
Um, and I think that's a lot ofway I, the way I try to go about
working with, uh, chefs andrestaurateurs.
(26:00):
Right now it's like here, I'vedone this for a long time.
This is the next three thingsthat are about to happen if you
keep doing what you're doing.
And it's like one, it's two,it's three and nothing is better
and worse all at the same timethan getting that phone call or
that text that goes.
You know how you said this wasgoing to happen.
It happened like yes, I mean.
(26:22):
Yes, I'm sorry I'm not asoothsayer, but I mean, this is
the way things are Like.
There's only so many variablesin the restaurant business.
Jason E. Brooks (26:34):
Even if you think about everything you you
are just said it is.
It's not only mentorship.
It also helps to help.
It helps to drive culture.
It helps to build that cultureof of the people.
Like us do things like this wedon't focus on being the best at
getting out of trouble, wefocus on being the best at never
(26:57):
getting into trouble, we focuson staying clean, we focus on
mise en place, we focus onwhatever that the culture is.
But that culture piece comingfrom the mentorship is crucial
for any organization.
So how do you approachcultivating a positive and
(27:18):
productive kitchen culture?
Because it's been known forseveral decades, if not
millennia's of kitchens arerough.
It's rough and tough and youget fussed at and things get
thrown at you.
But, as you said, even from theperson that's in Seattle that
(27:38):
is known for for blowing up ontheir team, positive and more
productive kitchen culturestoday are really what drives
that productivity.
So how do you approachcultivating that?
Simon Zatyrka (27:55):
Oh, you're going to laugh at me.
I have three C's for thisCommunication, communication and
communication.
Jason E. Brooks (28:05):
Tell me about the second one, not the first
one.
Simon Zatyrka (28:08):
Ok, you know, I honestly think that you know
reading the room andcommunicating in the appropriate
manner.
Reading a room andcommunicating in the appropriate
manner, right, Like if somebodyis breaking down, like you got
to stop, slow down and give thema moment and you got to be be
close, close to their space, youknow.
But I think that you knowreally working on communication,
(28:34):
and I always remember thatcommunication is two sides right
, Somebody's got to say it,somebody's got to hear it, and I
think if you say it andsomebody else doesn't hear it,
that can really be the personwho's saying it's fault.
But like pay attention, Onceagain, like pay attention to
(28:54):
what that person is maybe goingthrough or the day they're
having.
You know, um and and be, be, bepresent in the moment enough to
communicate in the way that isnecessary.
Jason E. Brooks (29:06):
so that's the second c for me you know um,
it's funny people laugh at meall the time when I say three
c's, but I'm like how?
About the first c, then overcommunicate over, over
communicate.
Simon Zatyrka (29:17):
I tell people like, uh, what's the best
example?
How about the first?
Jason E. Brooks (29:20):
to see, then Overcommunicate.
Simon Zatyrka (29:21):
Overcommunicate.
I tell people, like, what's thebest example?
Okay, mr Front of House Manager, I'm the chef and I'm down two
people and it's going to be arough one, but guess what,
nobody's better at being in theweeds than me.
Nobody's better at handlingrough.
And so I got the prep guy who'sgoing to work salads, because
(29:43):
he's worked salads a coupletimes and I'm going to work the
grill and we are going to getthrough it.
But here's what I need you to do.
I need you to make sure thateverybody on the front of the
house is aware that we're downand we're a little bit hobbled,
and so let's pay attention,let's guide our guests to the,
to the items that really are onon that saute station.
(30:04):
Let's keep them like.
Let's not be like pushing thesalads today.
This is a great day for pastas.
This is a great day for thethings that will help us get
through a little bit easier.
And the product of thatconversation is that the manager
on the other side knows what'shappening.
The team on the other side nowhas some good, focused orders or
(30:28):
direction on how they can helpme right, and meanwhile
everybody knows we're hobbledand we're gonna do our best, but
like this is what it is.
So, over communication, youknow, and and I, and I think
when I've, when I've done, thatis when I've been most
(30:49):
successful in my, in my journeyto to take care of restaurants
and help them really like helpbusinesses grow, you so over
communicating.
Jason E. Brooks (31:00):
Could not agree more, especially with all three
.
C's um it.
Even when you think aboutschool teachers, do do we think
that, even with eighth gradersand and ninth graders that
they've been in school for eight, nine years now, and the
teacher tells them on day onewhat the rules are, do you think
(31:22):
that they stop on day two orweek three or month four?
Nope, they will still, at thebeginning of class, probably say
some of the exact same thingsthat they said or that they've
heard for the last eight years.
So just because you say it oncedoesn't mean that it's stuck
(31:42):
Overcommunicate.
I love that aspect.
We are going to shift gearsinto some of the more signature
questions that I ask all of myguests.
First one, and first are youready?
I am so ready, you were bornready.
(32:03):
Now, if you could sit at around table with three other
leaders, alive or from history,who would you choose and why?
Simon Zatyrka (32:18):
Oof?
This is a hard question, but Igot some fun ones for you.
Number one Phil Jackson, thecoach from the NBA.
Okay, and here's why.
This is a guy who, in the realmof the Chicago Bulls, took one
(32:41):
of the, if not the greatestplayer, one of the greatest
players, and created a systemthat worked to not only make him
stronger but also found a waythat he could have the whole
team be involved.
And that triangle offense wasall about that big word again,
(33:03):
awareness.
It was heads up, and when thegame changes we change.
If they go 30 degrees, we go 30degrees.
And it was all about a shiftinghead on a swivel offense that
really dominated Right, driftinghead head on a swivel offense
(33:24):
that really dominated right.
But then.
But then you go forward intothe lakers time and he was able
to take two titans of basketballthat really didn't seem to like
each other at the beginning andmade them work together and
like they they did.
A male like shaq and kobe werelike stunning to watch together,
absolutely stunning.
So for me, a lot of like.
He has a book called SacredHoops and that thing I've read
(33:48):
like seven times and I honestlylike go read that book if you
haven't read it Because it's anamazing, truly like in current
jargon.
It is a master class infocusing on your environment and
really like finding ways totake reactiveness and making it
(34:09):
proactive.
Number two and this is a weirdone, but I love it Lyndon Baines
Johnson.
Love it, lyndon baines johnson.
This is a politician who wasknown throughout his entire
(34:29):
career as being the mostprepared, the most studied.
This guy had no court, no cardson everybody man, like folks on
the other side of the aisle.
He knew he Senator blah blahblah, you know from Mississippi.
He knew the guy's wife's name,the kid's names, he knew how old
they were, he was prepared, andI don't always love some of the
(34:52):
things that he did.
I like some of them for sure.
Lyndon B Johnson did some greatthings, but I always admired
just how focused and preparedthis guy was to do the business
of governing, and so that for me, was that's.
Number two, um, and numberthree uh, this was the hardest
(35:14):
one, I'll be honest.
There's a woman named FawnWeaver.
She is the founder and CEO ofUncle Nearest.
It is a Tennessee whiskey andshe has created the fastest
growing spirits brand on earth.
Nobody has ever grown a companyas fast, as big as this woman,
(35:36):
she.
She has a five-woman leadershipteam, three of which, including
herself, are women of color.
She has, every time she hits astandard or a norm where they
say, oh, you'll never be able todo it that way, she's like no,
I'm not going to do it that way,I'm going to do it this way.
And she goes 180 degrees in theother way and just destroys the
(36:00):
competition.
And it's just time after timeafter time.
Um, you know, she created her50 state strategy before she
even had two states locked andall the good old boys were like
no, that's not gonna work.
And next thing, you know, likeshe's just outpacing people.
(36:20):
And so I love her.
It doesn't hurt that I knew herback in like 2004 and five we
worked together in a hotel whenshe wasn't a bestselling author
and she wasn't the founder ofthis.
She was a really focused womanwho would come to me as the
executive sous chef of the hoteland she'd have these crazy
banquet orders and I'd be likewhat are you doing?
(36:41):
You're killing.
She's like we're making money,baby, you know.
And that was it, and, and so Ijust love the fact that she was
willing to do things her way andreally she's oh no VC no
venture capital.
Jason E. Brooks (37:01):
No venture capital, wow, none, wow.
Simon Zatyrka (37:04):
Her company is valued at over $1.1 billion
right now.
So there, that's my threepeople.
Jason E. Brooks (37:12):
That is a powerful board of directors
sitting at your table.
That's a great table.
Okay, last question, last butnot least, at the leadership
table, we believe inconversations that inspire, lead
and elevate.
So, as you think back throughyour past and your journey, we
(37:34):
have lots of conversations, lotsof great ones, lots of ones
that do shape us.
But what's one conversation inyour career that profoundly
shaped you as the leader you aretoday?
Simon Zatyrka (37:49):
It's that conversation that I mentioned in
the beginning, back in the sortof my story.
Right, it's going for the jobwhere I want to be the leader.
I want to be the executive chefof this cool and I mean cool
little boutique hotel right inthe center of Beverly Hills.
And the lady says, and it'seven in the same company that I
already work for, I should be ashoo-in, right.
(38:11):
And she says, no, you're a doerand I want a leader.
That was the one.
It was like man, because I'vegot the skills, like I had the
skills at that point, I couldrun that place.
But she didn't want somebodyjust to come in and grind, she
wanted somebody to elevateperformance, she wanted somebody
to lead, and I think for methat's the one that really made
(38:34):
me go huh.
Okay, there's more to this.
Pay attention, attention, focus.
You.
You understand what the bigfolk, big themes in my life are,
right, awareness, pay attentionand focus.
Jason E. Brooks (38:49):
But that's that's like a big conversation
that would absolutely shapeevery single person, and I'm
sure many people had similarconversations or moments that
said the way that I've beendoing things got me here, but
how I want to get there, I'mgoing to have to switch things
(39:09):
up, and that's exactly whathappened, and you created a huge
success from it.
So, simon, before we wrap up,where can our listeners connect
with you and learn more aboutyour work?
Simon Zatyrka (39:25):
Well, I think the easy one is LinkedIn.
First name is Simon.
Last name is Zoturka.
Z isn't zebra A T isn't Tom?
Y-r-k-a.
Zoturka Looks like hell, soundseasy, I think.
The other one is probably justculinarymechaniccom.
That'll get you to my podcast,that'll get you to my, my
(39:46):
advisory and coaching page.
That'll even get you to myemail and we can sit and have a
talk at some point, if, if, theif, the timing is right.
But yeah, that's how you findme.
Linkedin is my playground, butyeah, that's how you find me.
Linkedin is my playground.
I'm on Instagram too, though,like culinarymechanic, where you
can see little snippets of medoing stuff like this because
(40:09):
it's fun.
But yeah, I'm out here kickingit, just having fun, man well.
Jason E. Brooks (40:15):
Thank you so much.
I know our listeners found thisgreat, so today we have
explored the journey oftransforming kitchen operations
and leadership with SimonZaturka.
Simon, thank you for sharingyour experiences and wisdom with
us at the leadership table toour listeners.
If you found value in today'sconversation, be sure to
(40:39):
subscribe, leave a review andshare this episode with a fellow
leader.
You can also visit us atwwwjasonebrookscom for more
leadership insights andresources.
Until next time, keep leadingwith impact and remember manage,
lead.
Coach repeaton.
Simon Zatyrka (41:03):
Thank you jason, as always.
Thank you so much, have a great.
Oh man, welcome to the leadership table, where
conversations inspire, lead andelevate.
I'm your host, jason E Brooks,bringing you insights from top
leaders who are shapingindustries through leadership,
culture and success.
And today we're joined by myman, simon Zatyrka, a chef
(00:27):
turned consultant and thefounder of Culinary Mechanic.
Simon's journey from a16-year-old garnish guy to
leading multiple high-volumerestaurants and now advising
culinary operations is nothingshort of inspiring.
Through culinary mechanic, hefocuses on the human aspects of
(00:48):
running restaurants, emphasizingleadership systems and culture.
Before we dive in, be sure tosubscribe and share this episode
with fellow leaders who couldbenefit from today's discussion,
simon, welcome to theleadership table, my man.
We have traveled together,we've been doing shows, we have
(01:12):
had bourbon and wings,appetizers and great
conversation, and now I get thepleasure of having you on my
podcast.
Thank you, sir.
Simon Zatyrka (01:24):
Man, the pleasure is mine.
Thank you, jason.
I just gotta say you saidgarnish guy yeah, put a little
sprinkle in there.
No, no no man lettuce, tomatocheese, olive lettuce tomato
cheese and if it's fajitas,lettuce, tomato cheese, olive
(01:44):
cheese, olive, scoop of guac,scoop of sour, scoop of pico,
that was my life for a year.
Jason E. Brooks (01:50):
That is it, the disher scoops?
Yes, sir.
Simon Zatyrka (01:53):
Yes, sir.
Jason E. Brooks (01:55):
All day long.
So you know you are well knownin the culinary space, well
known in the culinary space.
But I want you to give mylisteners a brief introduction
about your journey from yourfirst job through the kitchen
(02:15):
into culinary mechanic.
Simon Zatyrka (02:21):
Man.
I started being the garnish guyat 16, in 1989.
Uh, I tell people that was whenthe first george bush was still
in office.
Um, and I did a year of that.
And then I I said, okay, I'mgoing to college and I had
really good grades.
I'm like the nerdy kid right,right, 3.93, I think.
(02:45):
And I went to the University ofMassachusetts and instantly I
could feel it.
I was like these are not myfucking people.
Pardon me for swearing rightout the gate, but you know it is
what it is.
These are not my people.
And so I looked around and Ithought long and hard about what
(03:07):
it is I was enjoying in life.
And nothing made me happierthan when I was done with my,
with my studies and and allthose things.
Um, in mathematics, by the way,that's, that was my, my initial
major.
And when I was done with that, Igot to go cook in the evenings
and on the weekends and I was atmy most alive.
So I said, all right, I'm gonnaquit school, I'm gonna cook.
And I just went on this journeyof cooking.
(03:27):
I was cooking in the morning, Iwas cooking at night.
On occasion I was cooking thirdshift and I was trying not to
do all three at once, butsometimes it happened, um, and
just like, just roll throughthat.
I went through them like littledinky, tiny restaurants and all
of a sudden I started.
I found hotel restaurants wherethey wore chef coats.
I was like, oh shit, look atthis paper hats the whole bit.
(03:49):
Um, and then like hotel, okay,cool hotel.
And then I was in new mexico atthe time when I first started
and then all of a sudden I saidnope, I'm gonna do something
different and I hustled my assto florida and I found myself in
where was I?
I was in Indian Rocks Beach,florida, which is right on the
outside of Tampa Bay, and I gotmyself into a little tiny
(04:12):
restaurant within a day of beingthere.
That lasted six weeks becausethey were.
They were a little tinyrestaurant and I just had bigger
thoughts.
So I went to the Sheridan thatwas there and I did that, and
then I, you know, I got anopportunity to be the chef in a
restaurant, in the Chef.
I was nowhere near the Chef.
I was 23 years old and I went toProvincetown, mass and I was
(04:34):
the chef for a summer and ittaught me everything.
I needed to know that I to knowthat I was not the chef yet.
And so I said, okay, take iteasy, go back to Florida, go
back to cooking.
And I just kept on and I wasreading, and I was reading
magazines and I was readingbooks, and I just decided that I
was going to create my owncurriculum because I wasn't in
(04:57):
the position to take myself toculinary school, so I was going
to have to find a way to just dothe thing, let's see.
And then I went to Californiaand I found myself cooking for
four seasons and then a Relayand Chateau property.
That was like where JFK spenthis honeymoon.
(05:20):
And then I found myself in LAand I was working for the Pat
patina group, which is now thismassive entity on both coasts.
But at the time there were 26restaurants and they were
growing at an exponential paceand it was grindy and it was hot
, and it was the kitchens thateverybody that watches the bear
like has nightmares about now,like shit getting thrown,
(05:41):
yelling, screaming, and theremarkable part about that was
that that was for a company, nota single restaurant, but we
still had, in 2003, thatatmosphere of fear.
Um, and then keep going a coupleyears.
Big properties, you know,high-end hotels, um, and just
(06:04):
doing crushing.
I was like an ox.
I felt I was putting on theyoke and I was getting bigger
roles and I was doing more and Iwas getting great results and
fast forward a couple years.
And I I go for this one uh joband the lady says you know, I
hear great things about you,you're amazing, you're a doer,
(06:25):
you, you get stuff done.
She says, but I'm not gonnahire you for this job because
you're not the leader that I'mlooking for.
And that crushed me um, and fromthat day forward I really
started paying attention.
I mean, I came home and I wasweeping a little bit.
My wife looks at me and shegoes okay, next day I, she comes
home and she flips leadershipfor dummies at me.
(06:47):
And then the next day, like twodays after that, she flips uh,
maxwell's little leadership 101at me.
Boom, she goes you're not aleader, figure it out.
Read it like ask questions.
Okay, um, and that began thenext journey.
It it was just leading, leading, leading.
And I was like, eh, it was okay, you know.
And then I worked for a guy no,I'm sorry, this guy worked for
(07:10):
me.
And it changed everything oneday when I said hey, we need a
new saute cook Because we'retaking the saute cook, putting
him on the grill, because wejust lost the grill guy.
Can that dishwasher back?
Do you think he has the?
Do you like, do you think hecould do it?
And the lead cook goes ofcourse he can do it.
And I said, yeah, but this is ahard.
He says no, jefe, you have to,you have to believe only in
(07:36):
their desire.
He says I can teach them therest, you can teach them the
rest.
He says but if you, if youbelieve in their desire to get
the job done and to to learn,then everything will be okay and
that really changed things andit holds.
The big piece of the back of myhead is is desire, and in in
(07:57):
spanish it's ganas right, it'sright in the fire in the belly.
Okay, still moving forward.
All of us go go forward another15 years and I've hit a place
where I cannot be in the kitchenanymore.
Um, I've become a leader whofarms, lead farm sous chefs,
like green beans baby, like Igot sous chefs coming up in the
(08:18):
company I'm working for.
I'm uh, just before I left theindustry, I I had four
restaurants under my finger andwe were just growing and you
know we would look at cooks andsay he or she is ready to be a
lead cook.
The lead cook, that one's readyto be a sous chef, that one's
(08:38):
ready to be a sous chef in a bigstore, and just on and on and
on.
We just kept growing andgrowing and developing and then
I got to the end and I realizedthat I didn't want to do that
anymore.
The company I was working forwasn't as much fun as it had
been.
I think COVID had a lot to dowith that.
And then my wife said you needto stop and you need to think
(09:03):
about how you can make moneysome other way that keeps you
closer to home.
That doesn't make you less.
Make you make it so that you'renot fun when you're not working
, because you used to be fun andI tolerate she's like I
tolerated the fact that you weredriven and hardworking because
you came home and we had a goodtime.
But now you come home andyou're grumpy and you're tired
(09:25):
and sometimes you're depressed.
She says so fuck all that,let's find something new.
So I listened, because she'sthe boss, and I took four months
off and this magic thingstarted happening.
The phone started ringing hey,simon, can you, can you, um, can
(09:46):
you go help this guy with aproject?
He needs a menu, costed andthere's probably other stuff to
dig into.
But can you go do that?
I'd really appreciate it.
Yes, I can.
Two months later, hey, uh,completely different person.
Hey, I just got a call fromthis guy.
He's got a nonprofitorganization and they just need
some technical help.
Can you like, can you just gohelp them dig out of their hole?
(10:08):
I'm like yes, I can.
Boom, uh, two months later Iget a.
I get a text from one of theguys who used to work for me and
then became the guy who tookover my spot when I left the
company and he goes I just got acall from somebody who I really
trust and admire and she needssome leadership help for her
chefs.
Can you go help with that?
And I was like, yeah, and nowI've got three clients.
(10:31):
I'm a consultant and I'mlooking around going, oh, I
guess I'm consulting.
And the culinary mechanic thinghad been almost a joke 10 years
previous it.
It was the product of me notfeeling like the job was sexy
anymore.
Right, like I didn't get to, Ididn't have fun.
(10:52):
Creating it was just take itapart, put it back together,
tune it up, move right.
And that was day in, day outand I'm like I'm just a culinary
mechanic.
And then one day, as many thingshappen, I'm walking the dogs
and I'm like I need a name forthis, for my company, and I need
to do an LLC.
I'm going to do a thing.
I'm a consultant, culinarymechanic is the way and that's
(11:14):
it, man.
That's where I am.
And now I really focus onhelping chefs and restaurant
owners, sometimes separately,sometimes together hone in on
their operations.
It almost always comes down toapplying some leadership
principles, which is why this issuch a fun conversation to have
(11:36):
with you.
And you know it's leadership.
It's trying to create somegreat culture.
Lately I've been saying, sayingwhat we're going to do is
create the way, and if yourrestaurant is called Jimmy's,
then it's Jimmy's way.
We want that to exist and wewant that to sort of live in
perpetuity.
(11:56):
That's where I'm at man.
That's what I'm doing.
Jason E. Brooks (12:01):
Zero to 100.
You have said it many times andI know it's true, but everyone
loves that logo, that logo ofthe uh knife with the fork.
Is that correct?
Simon Zatyrka (12:14):
knife and a spoon .
Spoon, knife and a spoon.
I screwed that okay.
Jason E. Brooks (12:19):
Knife inside a gear and and the gear behind it
around it.
That right there says it sayseverything.
And then the taste everythingmantra that you also have, um,
is very true.
I don't care if it's a fast,casual, brand, quick service, a
(12:42):
fine dining, you tasteeverything.
And you taste it at every linecheck, at every single line
check, because during peakvolume that pan may have changed
out three times on, on thatnext line check, you still taste
everything.
(13:02):
Course, though, this isn't thetasting table, this is the
leadership table.
So I want to dive into a bitmore about your leadership
lessons that you've learned,having led teams in high
pressure kitchens from what?
Arizona, new Mexico, florida,arizona, new Mexico, florida,
(13:24):
all the way up to the north.
Simon Zatyrka (13:26):
Massachusetts.
Jason E. Brooks (13:27):
To Massachusetts, back down to
Florida, back across toCalifornia.
I do believe.
Simon Zatyrka (13:33):
So wherever California, Los, angeles,
oakland and now Seattle you havebeen across the nation, so with
those travels.
Jason E. Brooks (13:41):
So what key leadership lessons have you
learned that apply across thehospitality industry, whether be
it fine dining, large groups,small mom and pops or even
hotels?
What key leadership lessonshave you learned that can apply
across all of those?
Simon Zatyrka (14:03):
You know, I think the biggest.
There's a couple of them, butfor me, the number one lesson
that I've learned is, as theleader, instead of trying to be
the loudest guy in the room andkind of barging in and going,
here's the solution Like, stop,listen and begin by asking more
(14:27):
questions than you makestatements.
And I go for like four questionsto three statements and if I
can pull that off, I almostalways come out with great
consensus and solutions that,like, people are into because
I've taken the time to payattention and be aware of my
surroundings and listen.
Time to pay attention and beaware of my surroundings and
(14:51):
listen.
And that's the second lessonright there for me is pay
attention, like head up, likelook around.
If you're the leader, youshouldn't be head down, you
should be head up, payingattention to the forest, the
trees, the rocks on the ground,right, like be aware of your
surroundings.
Um, and I find that when I workwith people and I get them to
(15:12):
slow down so that they caneventually go faster than they
have ever gone before, we reallytalk about like chin up, pay
attention.
That's, that's my big one,right, man?
Jason E. Brooks (15:24):
right now, man you definitely nailed it.
Even whenever I walk peoplethrough um a session that I call
closing the gap I talk throughwhen you think about the average
restaurant leader.
We are in a high-pacedenvironment.
We are always solving issuesfrom things that have gone on.
(15:47):
We may be rushing into alocation our location we're
trying to help knock down theline, get the kitchen from being
backed up, help out on expo,knock out a truck order, knock
out some payroll, and then allof a sudden our heart rate is up
there and then we go to walkthe dining room floor.
(16:10):
But our heart rate is verydifferent than our customer, the
customer.
When you really think aboutwhat they go through as they
walk into our establishment,their heart rate has slowed down
.
They are in a much darkerenvironment.
They are in a much darkerenvironment when they're sitting
at the table looking at theirmeal.
That finally came out.
(16:31):
It's about 18 inches from theireyes.
That view from 18 inches pullsin more detail.
After they're finished staringat their meal, making sure that
it is correct, they then begineating.
They then lift their chin up.
They start viewing left toright slowly.
That detail that they've gottenfrom that 18 inches now extends
(16:55):
out about three to five feet,to the detail that's on the
walls, the details that's on thebooths, the details that's on
the chairs.
The gap is when we're walkingthrough with that heart rate
pumping because we're all overthe place in which.
That's how we're trained to,but that's a different.
That's a different view fromthe customer.
(17:19):
So going through that exerciseof closing the gap for the
operators to understand what thecustomer sees versus what they
see, all for the operators tounderstand what the customer
sees versus what they seealthough they're in the same
room, is something that reallydoes help them.
But you are absolutely spot on.
Though Now your experience,there are common operational
(17:43):
challenges that restaurants face, similar to closing the gap.
What are some of the commonchallenges that you've also seen
in different type ofrestaurants and then how can
they be addressed effectively?
Simon Zatyrka (18:02):
common problems there's not enough recipes
getting used, right.
That's kind of like we can justpush that one to the side and
we can always come back to it.
But I think for me, the bigproblem in especially back at
house, but definitelyrestaurants is we have doers and
(18:24):
they're great doers, right?
These are people that are likethey show up on time for work,
they're into their job, theywant to do more, they might even
want to make a little moremoney.
And like a supervisor positioncomes up and oftentimes it's
like oh, me, me, pick me, youknow, or sometimes you got to
root through it and find thatone that's good and more often
(18:45):
than not, unfortunately, wethrow them in there.
We hand them some keys and goit's your shift, run it right.
Um, and worse than that, goodluck, take them.
Yeah, man, like I've had thathappen to me.
Like here's your key, bro, I'llbe here at 8 am because they'll
be here at 8 30 am, okay, youknow.
Or even worse than that is lockup, but whatever.
(19:11):
And so we, sometimes it goesokay, sometimes there's training
, sometimes there's not.
But the big overarching, likealmost universal problem is we
have people who are now supposedto be in these leadership
positions that sometimes they'vegot good role models, sometimes
(19:32):
they've got training, but moreoften than not we have leaders
who don't know how to lead.
I mean, that's like partiallywhy you have a business, you
know, it's partially why I havea business, but it's that it's
like, and I get it it's hard foran independent operator to to
(19:52):
like say, okay, we're gonnatrain you to lead and and but
man, that's just everywhere andand so we get.
We get toxic environments.
I feel like we might getincrementally less fewer toxic
environments nowadays becauseit's it's less socially
acceptable to be a freak andyell at people and scream at
people um, you know, but I knowthey're still out there.
(20:15):
I just heard a story the otherday about a guy here in seattle
who you know he just lost hisshit on his team and I was like
man, it's 2025, dog, get up,wake, like, come on, you can do
it.
Here comes the future.
It's going to smack you in theface.
So, yeah, that was my two bigones.
Jason E. Brooks (20:35):
Man, you know I got to say especially that
recipes one that is so important.
I cannot agree more with theleadership.
But even going back to therecipes, even like I'm probably
home when I don't travel a lot,I try to cook at least four to
(20:57):
six days per week and I've beendoing this.
My oldest is 30.
Youngest is 17.
Have a middle that is 26 yearsold and I'm cooking for them
from day one.
I mean from day one.
I'm definitely known as the chefthat is in the house and
(21:17):
there's times that I've madedishes probably 30 times within
the year, twice per month onsome dishes maybe a bit more and
I will always still, 30 yearslater, follow the recipe.
It drives them crazy andthey're like why you've made
(21:38):
this dish, I swear, 300 times,if not 500 times.
Why do you still either look atyour phone or print out a piece
of paper and go buy the recipe?
You should know this and I'mlike it's because I'm human too.
I will have bills on my mind, Iwill have everything else work
(22:01):
whatever that's on my mind, andat the wrong moment I will
forget something and you willtaste it and you will say what
did you do, dad?
It doesn't taste the same.
Simon Zatyrka (22:12):
Tastes, like last time, yeah.
Jason E. Brooks (22:14):
It doesn't taste like last time, and that's
why I always follow and use arecipe.
It is important.
Now it sounds like you've had alot of mentors teach you things
like that, so I know you havedefinitely emphasized the
importance of mentorship in yourcareer.
(22:37):
Can you tell us how mentorshiphas shaped your leadership style
now?
Simon Zatyrka (22:47):
I think.
Well, first of all, I am, uh,one of those people like I
suffer from shiny objectsyndrome, like squirrel fuck,
I'm gone, man.
So for me, like mentorshipoftentimes meant like a quiet 10
minutes at the end of the shift, talking one-on-one, where,
(23:08):
like I gotta focus, and for methat's really important, like I
had one chef who would justscream at me focus, focus.
And when you're done with thatfocus and yes, chef, okay, okay,
I got it.
Um.
And so I think for me, likesome having somebody that
listened to what I, what wasfreaking me out on a daily basis
(23:30):
, or somebody that was payingattention to how I was working
and could then kind of give methat like little jiminy cricket
on the shoulder going you'redoing that really the hard way,
man, you know, um.
And so I think those mentorsfor me, but also like the ones I
worked with guys and gal, Iworked with this one chef and
(23:51):
she, she was.
So I don't think I thought ofher as a mentor at the time, but
when I think back to what Ilearned from her, and here is
the moment she, she looks at meand she goes do you have this?
Oh no, do you have this on thegrill?
No, do you have this on the.
Do you have this on the grill?
No, do you have this on thegrill?
No, uh, do you have this, thisor this on the grill?
(24:12):
I'm like, no, I'm behind.
And she goes.
Okay, and she goes well,fucking, get on behind, cause I
need you to, I need you to getthere.
And so I, okay, regenerativepumping, and all of a sudden
boom, I'm caught up.
And afterwards she goes come on, I'm going to go smoke a
cigarette and you can get somesecondhand smoke.
And we go out the back door andshe goes.
You know what, when push comesto shove, you are one of the
(24:35):
best at getting out of trouble.
She says but I need you to getorganized and focused enough
that you don't get into trouble.
And that changed me once again.
It just shifted me five degreesto where I went on this path of
(24:55):
like, how do I get moreorganized, how do I get so tight
and clean that someday somebodyis going to call me like the
Iceman, because I'm cold and I'mcalculated and I'm operating
right, like that was the goalfor years.
Just get to be Iceman.
And I never got there.
I worked for a couple of guyslike that was the goal for years
just just get to be ice man.
And I never got there.
I worked for a couple of guyslike that, but I know that I
became more clean, moreorganized, more focused and I
(25:16):
stopped having to scramble toget out of things right in the
end.
I created processes for myself.
I created systems for myself onhow I was going to organize
myself.
Didn't know it at the time.
All I wanted to do was likehave that lady, not like kick me
in the shins anymore.
(25:38):
But that's that was.
You know, that's that was somesome great mentoring.
And for me now it's like okay,you're going to climb the tree
and I'm going to tell you thatthat's going to hurt when you
fall out of the tree, but I'mstill gonna let you fall out of
the tree.
I might have a net for you.
Um, and I think that's a lot ofway I, the way I try to go about
working with, uh, chefs andrestaurateurs.
(26:00):
Right now it's like here, I'vedone this for a long time.
This is the next three thingsthat are about to happen if you
keep doing what you're doing.
And it's like one, it's two,it's three and nothing is better
and worse all at the same timethan getting that phone call or
that text that goes.
You know how you said this wasgoing to happen.
It happened like yes, I mean.
(26:22):
Yes, I'm sorry I'm not asoothsayer, but I mean, this is
the way things are Like.
There's only so many variablesin the restaurant business.
Jason E. Brooks (26:34):
Even if you think about everything you you
are just said it is.
It's not only mentorship.
It also helps to help.
It helps to drive culture.
It helps to build that cultureof of the people.
Like us do things like this wedon't focus on being the best at
getting out of trouble, wefocus on being the best at never
(26:57):
getting into trouble, we focuson staying clean, we focus on
mise en place, we focus onwhatever that the culture is.
But that culture piece comingfrom the mentorship is crucial
for any organization.
So how do you approachcultivating a positive and
(27:18):
productive kitchen culture?
Because it's been known forseveral decades, if not
millennia's of kitchens arerough.
It's rough and tough and youget fussed at and things get
thrown at you.
But, as you said, even from theperson that's in Seattle that
(27:38):
is known for for blowing up ontheir team, positive and more
productive kitchen culturestoday are really what drives
that productivity.
So how do you approachcultivating that?
Simon Zatyrka (27:55):
Oh, you're going to laugh at me.
I have three C's for thisCommunication, communication and
communication.
Jason E. Brooks (28:05):
Tell me about the second one, not the first
one.
Simon Zatyrka (28:08):
Ok, you know, I honestly think that you know
reading the room andcommunicating in the appropriate
manner.
Reading a room andcommunicating in the appropriate
manner, right, Like if somebodyis breaking down, like you got
to stop, slow down and give thema moment and you got to be be
close, close to their space, youknow.
But I think that you knowreally working on communication,
(28:34):
and I always remember thatcommunication is two sides right
, Somebody's got to say it,somebody's got to hear it, and I
think if you say it andsomebody else doesn't hear it,
that can really be the personwho's saying it's fault.
But like pay attention, Onceagain, like pay attention to
(28:54):
what that person is maybe goingthrough or the day they're
having.
You know, um and and be, be, bepresent in the moment enough to
communicate in the way that isnecessary.
Jason E. Brooks (29:06):
so that's the second c for me you know um,
it's funny people laugh at meall the time when I say three
c's, but I'm like how?
About the first c, then overcommunicate over, over
communicate.
Simon Zatyrka (29:17):
I tell people like, uh, what's the best
example?
How about the first?
Jason E. Brooks (29:20):
to see, then Overcommunicate.
Simon Zatyrka (29:21):
Overcommunicate.
I tell people, like, what's thebest example?
Okay, mr Front of House Manager, I'm the chef and I'm down two
people and it's going to be arough one, but guess what,
nobody's better at being in theweeds than me.
Nobody's better at handlingrough.
And so I got the prep guy who'sgoing to work salads, because
(29:43):
he's worked salads a coupletimes and I'm going to work the
grill and we are going to getthrough it.
But here's what I need you to do.
I need you to make sure thateverybody on the front of the
house is aware that we're downand we're a little bit hobbled,
and so let's pay attention,let's guide our guests to the,
to the items that really are onon that saute station.
(30:04):
Let's keep them like.
Let's not be like pushing thesalads today.
This is a great day for pastas.
This is a great day for thethings that will help us get
through a little bit easier.
And the product of thatconversation is that the manager
on the other side knows what'shappening.
The team on the other side nowhas some good, focused orders or
(30:28):
direction on how they can helpme right, and meanwhile
everybody knows we're hobbledand we're gonna do our best, but
like this is what it is.
So, over communication, youknow, and and I, and I think
when I've, when I've done, thatis when I've been most
(30:49):
successful in my, in my journeyto to take care of restaurants
and help them really like helpbusinesses grow, you so over
communicating.
Jason E. Brooks (31:00):
Could not agree more, especially with all three
.
C's um it.
Even when you think aboutschool teachers, do do we think
that, even with eighth gradersand and ninth graders that
they've been in school for eight, nine years now, and the
teacher tells them on day onewhat the rules are, do you think
(31:22):
that they stop on day two orweek three or month four?
Nope, they will still, at thebeginning of class, probably say
some of the exact same thingsthat they said or that they've
heard for the last eight years.
So just because you say it oncedoesn't mean that it's stuck
(31:42):
Overcommunicate.
I love that aspect.
We are going to shift gearsinto some of the more signature
questions that I ask all of myguests.
First one, and first are youready?
I am so ready, you were bornready.
(32:03):
Now, if you could sit at around table with three other
leaders, alive or from history,who would you choose and why?
Simon Zatyrka (32:18):
Oof?
This is a hard question, but Igot some fun ones for you.
Number one Phil Jackson, thecoach from the NBA.
Okay, and here's why.
This is a guy who, in the realmof the Chicago Bulls, took one
(32:41):
of the, if not the greatestplayer, one of the greatest
players, and created a systemthat worked to not only make him
stronger but also found a waythat he could have the whole
team be involved.
And that triangle offense wasall about that big word again,
(33:03):
awareness.
It was heads up, and when thegame changes we change.
If they go 30 degrees, we go 30degrees.
And it was all about a shiftinghead on a swivel offense that
really dominated Right, driftinghead head on a swivel offense
(33:24):
that really dominated right.
But then.
But then you go forward intothe lakers time and he was able
to take two titans of basketballthat really didn't seem to like
each other at the beginning andmade them work together and
like they they did.
A male like shaq and kobe werelike stunning to watch together,
absolutely stunning.
So for me, a lot of like.
He has a book called SacredHoops and that thing I've read
(33:48):
like seven times and I honestlylike go read that book if you
haven't read it Because it's anamazing, truly like in current
jargon.
It is a master class infocusing on your environment and
really like finding ways totake reactiveness and making it
(34:09):
proactive.
Number two and this is a weirdone, but I love it Lyndon Baines
Johnson.
Love it, lyndon baines johnson.
This is a politician who wasknown throughout his entire
(34:29):
career as being the mostprepared, the most studied.
This guy had no court, no cardson everybody man, like folks on
the other side of the aisle.
He knew he Senator blah blahblah, you know from Mississippi.
He knew the guy's wife's name,the kid's names, he knew how old
they were, he was prepared, andI don't always love some of the
(34:52):
things that he did.
I like some of them for sure.
Lyndon B Johnson did some greatthings, but I always admired
just how focused and preparedthis guy was to do the business
of governing, and so that for me, was that's.
Number two, um, and numberthree uh, this was the hardest
(35:14):
one, I'll be honest.
There's a woman named FawnWeaver.
She is the founder and CEO ofUncle Nearest.
It is a Tennessee whiskey andshe has created the fastest
growing spirits brand on earth.
Nobody has ever grown a companyas fast, as big as this woman,
(35:36):
she.
She has a five-woman leadershipteam, three of which, including
herself, are women of color.
She has, every time she hits astandard or a norm where they
say, oh, you'll never be able todo it that way, she's like no,
I'm not going to do it that way,I'm going to do it this way.
And she goes 180 degrees in theother way and just destroys the
(36:00):
competition.
And it's just time after timeafter time.
Um, you know, she created her50 state strategy before she
even had two states locked andall the good old boys were like
no, that's not gonna work.
And next thing, you know, likeshe's just outpacing people.
(36:20):
And so I love her.
It doesn't hurt that I knew herback in like 2004 and five we
worked together in a hotel whenshe wasn't a bestselling author
and she wasn't the founder ofthis.
She was a really focused womanwho would come to me as the
executive sous chef of the hoteland she'd have these crazy
banquet orders and I'd be likewhat are you doing?
(36:41):
You're killing.
She's like we're making money,baby, you know.
And that was it, and, and so Ijust love the fact that she was
willing to do things her way andreally she's oh no VC no
venture capital.
Jason E. Brooks (37:01):
No venture capital, wow, none, wow.
Simon Zatyrka (37:04):
Her company is valued at over $1.1 billion
right now.
So there, that's my threepeople.
Jason E. Brooks (37:12):
That is a powerful board of directors
sitting at your table.
That's a great table.
Okay, last question, last butnot least, at the leadership
table, we believe inconversations that inspire, lead
and elevate.
So, as you think back throughyour past and your journey, we
(37:34):
have lots of conversations, lotsof great ones, lots of ones
that do shape us.
But what's one conversation inyour career that profoundly
shaped you as the leader you aretoday?
Simon Zatyrka (37:49):
It's that conversation that I mentioned in
the beginning, back in the sortof my story.
Right, it's going for the jobwhere I want to be the leader.
I want to be the executive chefof this cool and I mean cool
little boutique hotel right inthe center of Beverly Hills.
And the lady says, and it'seven in the same company that I
already work for, I should be ashoo-in, right.
(38:11):
And she says, no, you're a doerand I want a leader.
That was the one.
It was like man, because I'vegot the skills, like I had the
skills at that point, I couldrun that place.
But she didn't want somebodyjust to come in and grind, she
wanted somebody to elevateperformance, she wanted somebody
to lead, and I think for methat's the one that really made
(38:34):
me go huh.
Okay, there's more to this.
Pay attention, attention, focus.
You.
You understand what the bigfolk, big themes in my life are,
right, awareness, pay attentionand focus.
Jason E. Brooks (38:49):
But that's that's like a big conversation
that would absolutely shapeevery single person, and I'm
sure many people had similarconversations or moments that
said the way that I've beendoing things got me here, but
how I want to get there, I'mgoing to have to switch things
(39:09):
up, and that's exactly whathappened, and you created a huge
success from it.
So, simon, before we wrap up,where can our listeners connect
with you and learn more aboutyour work?
Simon Zatyrka (39:25):
Well, I think the easy one is LinkedIn.
First name is Simon.
Last name is Zoturka.
Z isn't zebra A T isn't Tom?
Y-r-k-a.
Zoturka Looks like hell, soundseasy, I think.
The other one is probably justculinarymechaniccom.
That'll get you to my podcast,that'll get you to my, my
(39:46):
advisory and coaching page.
That'll even get you to myemail and we can sit and have a
talk at some point, if, if, theif, the timing is right.
But yeah, that's how you findme.
Linkedin is my playground, butyeah, that's how you find me.
Linkedin is my playground.
I'm on Instagram too, though,like culinarymechanic, where you
can see little snippets of medoing stuff like this because
(40:09):
it's fun.
But yeah, I'm out here kickingit, just having fun, man well.
Jason E. Brooks (40:15):
Thank you so much.
I know our listeners found thisgreat, so today we have
explored the journey oftransforming kitchen operations
and leadership with SimonZaturka.
Simon, thank you for sharingyour experiences and wisdom with
us at the leadership table toour listeners.
If you found value in today'sconversation, be sure to
(40:39):
subscribe, leave a review andshare this episode with a fellow
leader.
You can also visit us atwwwjasonebrookscom for more
leadership insights andresources.
Until next time, keep leadingwith impact and remember manage,
lead.
Coach repeaton.
Simon Zatyrka (41:03):
Thank you jason, as always.
Thank you so much, have a great.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com