August 28, 2025 • 57 mins
In this episode of The Leadership Table, Jason E. Brooks sits down with Lissa Bowen, Fractional Program & Partnerships Director at The Good Work Collective
— a nonprofit creating trauma-informed, paid workforce training for individuals impacted by incarceration, foster care, and systemic barriers.
With deep roots in hospitality, HR, and leadership development, Lissa shares how building systems rooted in belonging, accountability, and opportunity transforms lives and workplaces alike.
🔍 Topics include:
- What makes The Good Work Collective’s model different from typical workforce prep
- Why frontline leadership matters more than ever
- How trauma-informed systems unlock true potential
- What the restaurant industry gets right about second chances
- Why radical welcome and real accountability can (and should) co-exist
🎧 Full show notes + links at jasonebrooks.com/podcast
🔗 Learn more about Lissa’s work: https://gwcollective.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Leadership Table.
Today's guest is someone I'veknown and respected for over a
decade Actually, it's been over20 years.
We first worked together backin Charlie's even into Focus
Brands, now GoToFoods, and I'vewatched her leadership journey
(00:30):
evolve in really powerful ways.
Lisa Bowen is currently theFractional Program and
Partnerships Director at theGood Work Collective, a
nonprofit helping peopleimpacted by incarceration,
foster care and trauma rewritetheir stories and build
(00:51):
sustainable, thriving lives.
She's also someone that livedthis mission, serving as a
foster parent, adopting her sonthrough the system, adopting her
son through the system andvolunteering with organizations
like Ignite and Experience LifeConnected that uplift kids and
families in powerful ways.
(01:12):
But long before that, she washelping franchise brands,
restaurant operators andfrontline teams build better
cultures from the inside out.
Lisa, I'm so glad you're here.
This is going to be somethingmeaningful.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I tell you what it is so good to see you.
It has been a while, but, likeyou said, we go back a long way.
So I've watched your career.
I'm so proud of you.
I am just delighted to be herewith you today.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Thank you.
You know a lot of people don'tunderstand.
Well, no slash that.
Because the people that listento this podcast, they know our
industry is small, talked abouthow many different people that
we know, how they have impactedlives, teams, relationships in
(02:20):
many ways, and it's crazy howsmall this world is.
We think, oh, I would love togo here and meet this person and
meet that person, the people wemeet and the places we go
within this industry.
Although you don't want towrite a novel, we can absolutely
write several novels based onthese amazing characters.
So I thank you for wanting tobe on this podcast sitting at
(02:43):
the leadership table and helpingto let people know some of the
amazing things that you've beenworking on now.
You've led teams in restaurants, franchises and now nonprofits.
What's that red thread thatconnects it all and what brought
you to the Good Work Collective?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
That is a great question.
And a long, long time ago, backin O'Charlie's days, actually,
one of the vice presidents Iremember him saying to me Bowen,
we're in the people business,food is our product.
So that stuck with me for thelast 25 years.
(03:27):
And so the red thread that tiesall of these experiences I've
had together and brought me tothe Good Work Collective is just
that it's all about people.
My whole career, regardless ofwhat industry I was in, I
believe that the success of thatbusiness is dependent on the
people.
(03:47):
So I've always looked at it andsaid how can we build systems
where people can belong, feellike they're part of something
bigger than them and grow?
And the reason is because it'sjust good business right.
Everybody wins.
When you hire the right people,put them in the right place,
give them a fun, safe, clean,healthy place to work where
(04:10):
people care about them, yourresults are better it's.
You know, numbers don't lie.
So I think that you know so muchof what we do is dependent on
our frontline workers.
Because, at the end of the day,who has more contact one-on-one
(04:30):
contact with our guests, ourcustomers?
You know, depending on whatindustry you're in, if any
customer facing industry, whohas more contact.
It's the folks on the frontline.
So it's our responsibility, Ithink, to invest in them and
provide opportunities for themto be seen and heard so that
(04:52):
they can actually meet theirfull potential, and ultimately,
that's how you build ahigh-performing team.
So Good Work Collective allowsme to use all of the things I've
learned about people in thelast you know I don't even want
to say how many decades I'vebeen in this industry, because
it'll make me old but learningall of that about how to build
(05:13):
these cultures where people loveto be, good Work Collective
just allows me to use thosesuperpowers for something good.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Tell people about what the Good Work Collective is
, though, because, again, we cando research.
Check out your bio.
You are amazing, but the wayyou explained what the Good Work
Collective is, I was evenfloored by it.
Collective is I was evenfloored by it.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So essentially what the Good Work Collective does
and it's kind of a play on goodwork, right, because I spent a
lot of my career in recruitingand what I learned is that if
you give people the opportunityto do good work, that they're
motivated to do, that they liketo do and that they're
appreciated for, then they canprovide for their families, they
(06:08):
can grow, they can becomemanagers, they can become
directors of operation.
I mean, it isn't dependent.
Beautiful thing about theindustry is it's not dependent
on necessarily where you camefrom, but what you bring today.
And so the Good Work Collectiveworks with formerly
incarcerated or justice-impactedindividuals we're in Cleveland,
(06:31):
ohio, so our Clevelandneighbors that are impacted by
the justice system and formerlyincarcerated to give them job
skills and kind of a returningfrom prison entry into the world
and I'll talk a little bit moreabout that when we get deeper
into it.
(06:51):
And we do the same thing forkids who are aging out of foster
care.
My husband and I were fosterparents.
We adopted my youngest son fromfoster care and you know the
outcomes for kids that age outwithout any support net are
really not great.
And as we learned that as wegot into the system, that's when
(07:12):
we focused our own fostercareers on working with teens
who were going to age out of thesystem so that hopefully they
could have some tools andresources that once they aged
out they'd be able to actuallyget good work and be able to,
you know, not end up as one ofthose statistics and a bad
outcome.
So the Good Work Collectiveactually provides
(07:43):
trauma-informed education andresources with a paid program so
that they come into our programand they start to get paid day
one.
We're going to do culinarytraining because in the building
that we're housed in, which isa former settlement house in
(08:03):
Cleveland that is the newsettlement house now we're going
to have commissary kitchens anda cafe that our program
participants will learn in fromsome local chefs who are going
to come in and help with theprogramming.
On some of the technical skills.
They're going to get ServSafecertified.
We're going to do somecommunication and leadership
(08:25):
development so that theyactually can build their ability
to communicate with people whoare different than they are.
We're going to use DISC.
We're going to use situationalleadership.
We're going to use a lot of thetools that I came up with in the
industry so that people canthen graduate from our program
and essentially be ready to goin a kitchen in a front of the
(08:51):
house where they can get a job.
Some may go to culinary school,some may go to trade school,
some may go into entry levelcustomer service jobs jobs.
It really depends.
But we're going to give themall of those resources, in
addition to wraparound serviceswith other nonprofits who help
with, for example, adjudicationservices and housing services,
(09:16):
and there are just a number ofpeople that work that do a lot
of the similar work in differentarenas like housing and
transportation and differentkinds of therapies and things
like that.
That we'll all work together asa community and serve these
folks in our neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
That is amazing work and we are so similar, so a like
our focus on how can we makepeople better at being working
beside creating environmentswith other people.
There's a lot of times that wewill focus on so many other
(10:01):
technical skills, but how manyprograms do we have that help
make leadership better withinyour business model to provide
(10:22):
not only, of course, betterprofits, but just a better
systematic approach to buildingteams that know how to get the
goals that they set out?
For it doesn't matter if thatgoal is to build a daycare,
build a rocket, or build akitchen to put out some amazing
(10:44):
sauces, or build a kitchen toput out some amazing sauces.
How do you help put together ateam to do the impossible at a
very fast-paced, hot-working,emotional environment and be
successful at it?
And so I'm so glad that youaccepted to come on to the
(11:06):
leadership table to help definethat.
Now the good work is absolutelydoing that.
Your program, as you spelledout, it's not the typical
workforce prep.
It is very different from whatmost people get taught when it
comes down to workforce prep,and the people coming in have
(11:29):
different challenges.
Not that they're bad, theyaren't bad challenges, they're
just different challenges.
Now you've led, you've co-ledsome initiatives like Gangsta to
Genius and Foster to Fly.
How are those structured andwhat principles shape their
(11:50):
success for these initiatives?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I have to tell you I'm always about a good name and
a good tagline.
I can't help it, but we builtthese programs.
I will tell you how some ofthis stuff came to be right.
I did a half-day simulation nottoo long ago.
It was held at the JusticeCenter in my town and basically
(12:13):
you had to live through theexperience of being released
from jail after a felony andthey had people there from like,
probation and the drug testingplace and people that you could
go try to get a job with and youknow, food stamp people and
housing people and the pawn shopand going to get your ID and
(12:34):
all this kind of stuff.
And you had to go and executeall this stuff in a certain
amount of time, just like you doin real life life.
And when I got out I had asocial security card, a birth
certificate, a Walkman and 20bucks.
(12:57):
I didn't have enough money foran ID.
So I had to figure out how am Igoing to go get an ID, because
I can't go to probation, I can'tgo to get housing, I can't go
to get, can't do anythingwithout an ID.
So I was like, well, I'm goingto sell this Walkman, right, so
I go to sell the Walkman Guesswhat?
You need to go to a pawn shopand sell something, you need an
ID.
So I went through this andthere was an opportunity.
They created opportunitieseverywhere for you to steal, for
(13:21):
you to steal money, for you tosteal stuff, and we were told it
was okay as long as we don'tget caught.
But if we get caught we have togo back to jail, and getting a
job was impossible.
Everybody turned me down,partly because I didn't have an
ID.
I did have a Social Securitycard and a birth certificate,
(13:44):
but it was.
I was so upset by the time itwas over, and I was so angry
because I do understandrecidivism rates.
Right, it's part of my job.
Two out of three formerlyincarcerated people are
rearrested within three years.
Sixty percent remain unemployeda year after their release.
(14:06):
Anybody other than me think thatthose two things could be
related?
Right, if you can't have goodwork, you're going to have to
figure out a different way toput food on the table, and we
don't create environments wherepeople can do that.
So same thing with foster care.
Right, 50% of youth aging outare either homeless or
(14:29):
incarcerated before they're 25years old.
We give people like there'sthis sense that you can pull
yourself up by your bootstraps,but if there's not any access to
bootstraps, you don't get to dothat.
So what we're trying to doabout these systemic barriers
(14:50):
for people in these situationsis kind of providing them with
the bootstraps, if you will.
So what we want to do is createprograms, paid programs, so
that they're not actually tryingto steal to put food on the
(15:14):
table for their families.
I had a kid when I got out in myprogram and I had to buy school
supplies and I had to do stuff.
So what we do is we actuallyhave built these programs
essentially so that they'll havepaid training.
We will help them withoutplacement, hopefully working
(15:37):
with great hospitality companieswho want to hire our graduates
right.
Graduates right will work withculinary schools.
My son, my youngest son, wentto culinary schools, so there
are plenty of culinary schoolsout there that offer wonderful
scholarship programs but workwith them on things that will
(16:00):
help them build lives.
I mean, if you really look at it, the whole idea behind
incarceration is our justicesociety giving somebody their
debt to society.
You have to pay your debt tosociety, and that's what prison
is about, or jail or whatever itmay be.
When you get out, your debt isrepaid, according to our justice
(16:25):
system.
So why not provide somebodywith the resources so that they
can move forward after they'vepaid their debt and be able to
have a happy, productive life?
And that's what we designed ourprograms to do.
(16:45):
So, if you think about it, thepaid training is a big, big part
of this.
Without the paid training, itdoesn't work because they still
need to put food on the table.
So we designed the program tobe trauma-informed so that we
understand some of the behaviors, that we can work with people
(17:07):
that have those behaviors, andso that we can give them the
resources they need to get upjust to get some traction, to
get their bootstraps on, so theycan then pull themselves up by
them.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Now you are scaling these systems for bootstraps,
scaling these systems to heal.
You're helping license thismodel to new communities, not
just in Ohio.
How do you preserve heart andhumanity while designing these
systems for growth?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I will tell you, this is where some of my restaurant
experience is really coming inhandy, because I'm treating this
expansion and the scaling kindof like a high-touch hospitality
brand, right.
So when you franchise yourrestaurant space or license it,
(18:08):
you don't just give them amanual and walk away, right,
you're trying to keep the coreingredients the same in our case
trauma-informed care, paidpathways, leadership,
development and the fact thatthe community wraparound
(18:29):
services are there.
So, just like a restaurantfranchise, though, we let that
local market kind of influencethe flavor of what they're going
to ultimately produce.
So I think that piece of it andcreating licensing so that we
(18:50):
can scale this beyond Clevelandinto other distressed markets is
going to be the key.
But honestly, I'm just lookingat it like a restaurant
franchise.
We're going to provide support,we're going to provide the
playbook, we're going to providethe training programs.
But you know, the local peoplein the community, the ones who
(19:12):
are running this program,they're the ones who are going
to be on the news, you know, onthe morning show, on the radio
show, on a podcast like yours,talking about the work that
they're doing in their community, and it's very community
specific and, I think, just likeany restaurant company.
That's how we're looking at itand we're not chasing fast
(19:35):
growth.
That's not the idea.
That might be one place wherewe might differentiate from
restaurant franchising.
I think sometimes we grow alittle too fast in the
franchising world and we've seensome symptoms of that with some
of the closures and buybacks.
But that's not what we'rechasing.
We're more about chasing kindof a deep root, community-based
(20:03):
expansion, and for me it's waymore important that each
location does carry the samespirit of like radical welcoming
and accountability that we havein our program and that's more
(20:23):
important than you know puttingone in every city in the next
year, right.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I love the radical welcoming.
You know you've speaking ofrestaurant, restaurant industry
and the restaurant business.
You've sat on both sides of thetable and a lot of restaurant
owners, a lot of restaurantexecutives and HR teams know and
(20:53):
basically understand a littlebit about hard to hire talent.
But what should businessleaders know about hiring people
with justice or fosterbackgrounds?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Well, I think that there's a myth around them being
risky hires.
I will tell you from my ownexperience, people who have been
through the foster care systemor the justice system are some
of the most resourceful, loyal,hardworking people you will ever
(21:32):
meet in your life.
I agree, hardworking people youwill ever meet in your life.
In some cases they come fromgenerational trauma,
generational poverty and reallykind of haven't had a fair shot,
and I think when you give themone with the right support, like
what we're doing at Good WorkCollective, they'll knock it out
(21:57):
of the park.
And, frankly, there's data tosupport that.
By the way, the Harvard BusinessSchool actually did a research
paper and I'll provide it to you.
It's called Hidden Talent.
It's around staffing andfinding people to staff in kind
of hidden places, and I'm happyto share that with you so you
(22:18):
can share it with your audience.
But they found that employersreported to them that they have
higher retention rates informerly incarcerated team
members than they do from thegeneral population, than they do
from the general population Iwould love for you to send that
over and I will definitely putthat in the show notes with a
(22:42):
link to it.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And I think you're right.
Whenever we look at people thathave that kind of background,
there is a lot of commitmentthat they find because they know
that they're looked at acertain way.
They aren't blind to that fact.
And when someone not even takesa chance because it's not a
(23:05):
chance, gives the opportunity tobring them in, to offer them
good work, to help provide goodwork as well, that commitment is
tenfold than what we find outof any other applicant coming in
our doors or applying online.
(23:26):
So I agree with that statement.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, and I mean, it's one thing that I have
always loved about therestaurant industry and, like I
said, I've spent decades in it,from the time I was 13 years old
and working at the PurpleTurtle Dariette back before
there was T-Ball, there wereactual baseball teams that came
in, you know little tiny kidsfor ice cream.
(23:50):
But from those times untiltoday, our industry doesn't just
accept people from all walks oflife, but allows them to
actually reach their fullpotential.
Right.
It's always been about thequality of their work,
regardless of their past.
(24:11):
Look, you and I both knowpeople that have run divisions,
have run regions, have been vicepresidents, coos of restaurant
companies, have been owners,have been franchisees that never
set foot in a college classroom.
But I'll bet you, if you lookedat a job description, it would
(24:31):
say a college degree is required.
But what's required is somebodywho's really good at this, who
understands that.
High-quality food, keeping aplace clean, providing great
food, providing exceptionalhospitality.
I don't know.
I think that's something that'sjust ingrained in who you are
(24:54):
as a human, regardless of thecircumstances of your past.
And again, I'll bring back updebt to society paid.
Perhaps it would make sense forhiring managers to invest in
people who have paid their debtto society.
And let's face it, foster kidsare there through no fault of
(25:17):
their own, through no fault oftheir own, regardless of how bad
their situation was at home.
They would have way rather beenwith their family than been in
foster care.
It just wasn't safe for them,right?
That's not their fault.
And so many at a certain agedon't actually even get placed
into foster homes.
(25:37):
They go into group homes wherethey get very little kind of
individualized attention.
But you know, imagine themanager that takes that kid
under their wing and shows thema path to something that could
be way better.
There's going to be loyaltythere, I'm telling you right now
(25:58):
, and they will perform beyondyour wildest dreams.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I'm telling you, it is all about belonging and
accountability.
It's not either or it is both.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's not either or it is both.
So how can operators and execsbuild cultures that expect more
and support more?
Really important and some ofthis is kind of my
trauma-informed background byworking with foster kids but a
lot of leaders and way too many,by the way, in my opinion avoid
really what they call difficultconversations or, you know,
hard conversations in the nameof being nice or trying to be
kind.
But the truth is clear.
Expectations are kindness,right.
(27:01):
Accountability isn't theopposite of compassion.
It's actually an expression ofcompassion, right.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
So we look at this at Goodwill Collective and we say
I call it positiveaccountability.
That's how I've taught it mywhole career.
It means that we're honestabout what's expected.
We're going to set clearexpectations, but we are not
punitive.
And I think this comes down toexamining your own motives for
(27:32):
those difficult conversations.
Right, are you a manager that'sgoing to go into this
conversation with Jason becausehe's late all the time, really
letting him know who's boss?
Are you going into thatconversation to just show him
who's right, or are you goinginto that conversation with
Jason so that you can help Jasonbe better?
And I think there are managersthat go into that conversation
(27:57):
that say I'm going to show himwho's the boss, and I think
that's the exact wrong way to goabout it.
I think that a lot of times weand I'm not for lowering the
standard, don't get me wrong youraise the level of support, you
don't lower the standard,because people will always
(28:17):
perform to your level ofexpectation.
Always, if you set the bar high, people will either perform to
that level or they will leave.
They will select, self-selectout, because they don't want to
work that hard.
They can't do it, whatever itmay be, or you'll be able to
show that they can't do it right.
If you lower the bar, I canassure you with absolute
(28:41):
certainty that people willeither drop to that level of
expectation or they will leavebecause they don't want to work
like that.
So lowering the bar is neverthe answer, but what you do have
to do is have clarity aroundwhat success looks like, and
that starts with your jobdescription.
(29:02):
I raised two kids that are inthis workforce right now and
they want to know what'sexpected of them with clarity,
because they want to do good.
They want to do good, they'renot lazy, they don't not want to
work, they work really hard.
But if they don't know whatsuccess looks like, what are
(29:24):
they supposed to do?
Then you have to use feedbackas fuel, not to beat people up,
not to create fear, and I'vewatched people use feedback like
a weapon.
I mean just bludgeon the heckout of somebody with their
feedback.
Constructive criticism,whatever you want to call it.
It's a shame-based thing and itreally shouldn't be.
(29:47):
It should be about movingforward, gaining agreement.
Hey, jason, you've been late, alot lately.
Is there something happeningthat I need to know about to
help you be on time?
You might say, oh, my kid'sschool schedule changed.
It's really hard for me to behere at nine o'clock.
In which case you look at thebusiness and say can I bring you
(30:09):
in at 915 instead?
Would that be helpful?
All of a sudden, jason's backon time again.
If it's not, then you have tosay okay, what can we do?
You explain how you know itaffects the team, how it affects
the guest, how it affects thebusiness, how it affects them,
and say can you agree, jason,that this behavior needs to
(30:31):
change and you need to be ontime.
And for the most part, if theyunderstand why they go, yeah,
lisa, that makes perfect sense.
What can I do to be on time?
Right, and then don't just letthat go.
People just go.
Okay, we've agreed, and thenit's done.
You have to visit, revisit andrevisit and come back to it and
be consistent.
(30:51):
And then you celebrate when ithappens.
You know you're a manager thatsays what do you need from me?
And then they do what you'veasked and you go.
Well, yeah, you did, because Itold you you had to.
Why don't you go, man?
That's awesome, you've donegreat, right.
So I think it's around.
People are going to makemistakes, heart of growing.
(31:16):
You've made them, I've madethem.
I make them all the time.
I mess stuff up all the time,but the same guy that told me I
messed up this morningAbsolutely.
Right, I logged into thisyesterday because I thought it
was Wednesday, look at the endof the day, you know, we all
make mistakes, and the same guythat told me it's all about
people, he's the one that toldme that if you don't make
(31:42):
everybody makes mistakes, justdon't make the same one over and
over and over again.
Right?
So growth includes mistakes.
And guess what, when people arenot afraid to fail, they're not
afraid that they're going tohave their manager beat the heck
out of them.
They learn faster and they dobetter faster, because failing
(32:06):
is just part of growth.
It's not something to beashamed of.
So I think those honestly.
If you know, that's how Iexplain it.
But I think it all starts withclear expectations.
This is a person who spent asmuch of my time in recruiting as
possible.
Being honest about what the jobis is where that all starts
Radical transparency.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I actually want to go back to your definition of
accountability, because I speakto the same thing.
People take the termaccountability as that last step
right before they fire someoneand it's like, no, that's not
what accountability is.
Accountability is you havingthe true clarity, painting that
(32:55):
clear picture of what successlooks like within a specific
role, and it's not just one time, like you said.
Yes, it needs to be in the jobdescription, but it also needs
that reminder nearly every day.
Why?
Because we don't have AI thatworks for us.
Yes, some of us use chat, gptevery single day like they are
(33:20):
an employee, but when peoplewalk in your door, they have
many things that are on theirmind, whether it's bills or
things that need to get fixedwith their car or insurance or
medical or relationships orsocial media.
Yes, that is a real challengefor a lot of the people that
(33:41):
work for us.
But accountability is paintingthe picture of what does success
look like today, for the nextfour hours, the next eight hour
shift, next eight hour shift.
What does that look like fortoday?
To help them reset, to feellike that they know what success
looks like, how they can belongand get and reach to that
(34:04):
expectation and then giving thefeedback, like you said, in the
right way.
No, there's not always positivefeedback, but it is the way that
you deliver that feedback thatgets them to either A tune in
and then to react positively forfuture behavior or go on
(34:26):
defense just to try to tell thewhy they did something.
The why start with why, yes,but within that feedback context
, why does it matter?
It is changing future behaviorfor a better outcome by one
percent.
Just as long as it's by onepercent, then, yes, we are
(34:47):
making progress.
Want to shift gears?
Some, all right, many leaderstalk about impact, but your life
is built around it, from beinga foster parent to serving on
boards like Ignite andExperience Life Connected.
(35:08):
How do these personalcommitments influence the way
you show up in your work?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Well, I think I show up the same way in my life as I
show up in my work, and you knowwe had that conversation a
little bit earlier.
I believe that inStrengthsFinder I'm a maximizer,
right, I want to take good andmake it great, and that's just
how I look at people.
(35:39):
I think everybody has potentialand they just need resources,
they just need a chance, right,and not everybody's gonna.
You know, I've beendisappointed, right.
I mean not everybody's showedup the way that I wanted them to
, but it doesn't mean I'm goingto stop trying, right.
(36:00):
I'm not going to take the nextkid and say, you know, you're
not going to be okay because thelast one, you know, was a
challenge.
I'm just not.
It's not how I'm wired.
And you know my son was.
I'll give you an example of howI'm the same at home and at
work.
My youngest son was in culinaryschool and he did his capstone
(36:26):
project.
Which of all things?
He chose a Greek restaurant andI don't know, but he had
swordfish.
It was this delightful, likelemon swordfish, it was really
good.
And he had a gyro, like youwould expect.
But he I said, alex, you know,don't be surprised if it doesn't
(36:47):
go as well as you think it'sgoing to go, because I don't
know how many people are goingto come for Greek food.
He ended up having the schoolopened when I was in high school
, so it's been open for a verylong time and he had the third
largest sales of anyone else.
And I said why, why, how didthat happen?
You know, because I want toknow, it's Greek food.
And he said because we soldeverything.
(37:15):
And I said okay, tell me more.
And he said well, most of therestaurants they don't sell
everything because they can'tget it all out of the kitchen in
the time that we have, becausethey only serve for like two
hours a day.
You went in from 11 to 1, youcould go get lunch.
And he said they couldn't getall the food served so they
couldn't sell it all.
Right, and I said okay.
And I said they couldn't sellit all right.
(37:36):
And I said okay.
And I said well, why did yousell all of yours?
And he said well, when I had toassign people to stations, I put
them in the stations where theywere best.
I didn't put my friends in thegood stations and put other
people that I didn't like likein stations I knew they wouldn't
like.
He said I put them in thestations where they were going
to be good and I said, okay,aces in places, right.
(38:00):
And then he said and then whenthey were doing their prep, I
went to each one and I workedwith them for a little bit,
asked them if they neededanything and made sure that they
had their stuff ready to go ontime.
And then when we were inservice, I went back on the line
and helped them when I neededto.
But then I left them to dotheir thing and I went out in
the dining room and I talked toeverybody.
(38:21):
I made sure the servers wereokay and I said well, didn't
everybody else do that?
Don't they teach you that?
And he said, yeah, mom, no,they don't teach us that.
I said well, how did you knowto do it?
He goes, you taught me that.
He said you've been teachingMitchell and I that, since we
could string sentences together,how to like maximize people's
(38:41):
effort, and I didn't even know Idid it until he told me that.
But then when I was with mylast company, because of it we
actually created a leadershipprogram that stacked on top of a
high school culinary programthat taught leadership and how
to teach people to communicatewith people who are different
than they are.
You know, everybody in myfamily's taken a disc.
(39:03):
Everybody in my family's takenStrengthsFinder.
Like it's all around, likeunderstanding that who you are
at work is also who you are.
When you're not at work you mayhave some more relaxed behavior
, but at the end of the dayyou're the same person and the
activities you take place inoutside of work are probably a
(39:25):
reflection of the same kinds ofactivities that you have when
you're at work.
So I think, and a lot of it'sshaped by my parents, my parents
.
I grew up poor, but I neverknew we were poor Really,
because we always had a biggarden and we always had a cow
and a pig and you never namedthem and we had chickens and so
(39:47):
we always had fresh eggs.
My dad was a beekeeper.
You know, like I never knewthat we were poor really, until
I got to college and then peoplesaid what do you mean?
You make your own clothes.
And I was like I want stuffthat's different, you know.
So I go to the fabric store,you know.
You asked me where I got thisskirt.
(40:08):
You must like it, you know.
So I didn't know, but theytaught us that you know a good
book and a good meal.
You're not poor, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
And you give some to everybody else too right.
Wow, I mean first going back toyour youngest son's capstone
with mise en place, aces inplaces, matching the people on
your team's skill set with therole, servant leadership, and
(40:49):
then being the mayor of his fourwalls to make sure that
everyone was taken care of Allof the things.
That really makes restaurantbusiness work.
And what's crazy is you said it, you said it A lot of schools
don't teach that because it'snot sexy.
(41:11):
Yeah, like that, but what's notsexy is teaching true
leadership skills.
And that is just crazy to methat more schools don't lean on
(41:34):
that aspect when they have thedata, with him selling the third
highest sales since WithSwordfish.
It was crazy.
I mean, we live in a small town.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
I didn't think anybody would order it.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Thank you.
So anyways, I don't know thatwas.
That was amazing, but look, wecould.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
You know, and I will tell you that you know, this is
what I think.
I love the restaurant industry,which is why this work that
we're doing now, which is whythis work that we're doing now.
We made a conscious decision totie it into the restaurant
industry because these are goodjobs.
They're good jobs for goodpeople who just want to do good
(42:17):
work.
So if we can teach them theskills to be able to come out of
the gate after this nine to 12month program, we don't just
it's not a six week thing.
We work with them for anywherebetween nine months and a year
to get them up on their skills,to give them some experience, to
really allow them to grow andteach them.
(42:40):
You know things aroundself-awareness and managing
stress and communicating withpeople who are different than
you are, and you know when toapply direction and when to
apply support in leadership.
All of this stuff goes alongwith what we're doing, in
addition to therapy and thewraparound services that are
going to be provided by someother people.
(43:00):
But you know, restaurants areawesome.
They're awesome places to workand I will fight anybody who
argues with me about the factthat working in a restaurant a
busy restaurant on a Friday orSaturday night when everything
is hitting on all cylinders,it's the most fun you'll ever
(43:21):
have at work.
And if you say it's not, Iswear I will fight you because
it is so fun to work inrestaurants.
I mean, think about what we do.
We're literally table side atthe most important moments of
people's lives anniversaries,birthdays, graduations.
I remember one time I had someguys come into the restaurant
it's the middle of the day andthey got this huge table and
(43:43):
they were having cocktails outon the patio and I took them
some appetizers because theywere all drinking pretty good.
And I go, what are you guysdoing?
And they said we just came froma friend of ours funeral and
we're just telling stories abouthim and I was like y'all stay
as long as you want.
If you need cabs to get youhome, I'll get them for you.
It was back before Uber, but Iwas like I will do whatever you
(44:04):
need to do.
You guys enjoy yourselves.
I'll bring out some more appsfor you.
And you know, we don't know,because they don't always tell
you why they're there, but thereare moments that people
oftentimes can't get back.
You can't get back a first date.
You can't get back a 50thanniversary.
You can't get back the dinnerwhen the first kid in your
family graduates from college.
(44:26):
We just every moment thatpeople share or don't share with
us are special moments.
All life's special moments havefood and drink involved, almost
you know.
So we provide a service that'sinvaluable and training people
and getting them prepared to beable to do that and having
(44:48):
partners in the industry thatsee the value in that and are
willing to like work with us, tohire some of our folks or
sponsor a kitchen or whatever itneeds to be.
You know we're I'm always goingto work in the restaurant
industry in some way, shape orform.
I'm never going to work in therestaurant industry in some way,
(45:09):
shape or form.
I'm never going to.
From the time I was 13,probably earlier than that, I
was like nine when my parentsgave me an Easy-Bake oven for
Christmas and I would make thosestupid cakes and they're cooked
with a light bulb for the loveof all that's holy and I would
give them to my dad when hewould get home from a hard day
at work.
My dad was a carpenter.
I'd give him these cakes and hewould eat them.
He didn't even like sweets verymuch.
He would tell me how awesomethey were and I was like I'm
(45:31):
going to do this forever in someway, shape or form.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
And you know, good Work Collective is just allowing
me to do it in a different way.
Oh, lisa, your causes, yourmentality around leadership,
giving back and people isexactly what we should all be
striving towards Now.
I need to.
We could speak all day, but Iwant to get these, these, these
(46:01):
two signature questions, becauseI am really biting at the bit
to figure out what you're goingto say.
All right, so if you could sitat a leadership table with any
three leaders, a live or fromhistory, who would you choose
and why?
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Okay.
So you gave me a heads up aboutthis question, by the way,
which I appreciated, becausethree people is almost
impossible.
It's like so, and I'm a littlebit of a challenge the rules
kind of girl.
So I'm going to have threecategories of people.
(46:42):
Okay, categories of people so,but all of them, all of them
have a common thread of buildingsystems, creating environments
where people can thrive, doingsomething to make the world
(47:03):
better, and and that that, to me, is important.
So those are the people that Irespect.
So I put it into three buckets.
So I think about what people dowith their money is my first
category.
So from that standpoint, Iwould put Mackenzie Scott at my
table.
I would love to pick her brain.
(47:24):
She gives away a lot of money.
She has a lot of money.
She gives away big and fast andwithout strings.
It's not like a typical grant.
You can't go and apply to getmoney from Mackenzie Scott.
She finds you and she admiresthe work you're doing and then
(47:44):
she gives it and she trusts theleaders closest to the work to
use the money in the mostappropriate way.
It's brilliant.
Mark Cuban is another guy I'dput into that category.
I went to Kentucky, saw him abig basketball fan.
He bought a basketball team,which is cool, but that's not
why I would put him at my table.
He looked at the prescriptionmedicine system and said there's
(48:07):
got to be a better way.
Getting your medicationshouldn't bankrupt people.
So he built, took his moneythat he worked hard for, and he
built this platform that allowspeople to get more affordable
prescription medicines.
So I'd love to talk to himabout that.
The second category of peoplethat I would want to talk to are
(48:30):
people that built theirbusinesses around human beings,
right.
So one of my heroes and I heardyou talk about red threads
earlier and stuff like that Ilove Marcus Buckingham and, man,
I would give a million dollarsto pick that guy's brain if I
had it, which I don't but dataand dignity can exist together,
(48:58):
right.
And he takes data and appliesit to people no-transcript.
(49:28):
And we don't do that at GoodWork Collective either.
We don't fix people.
We provide resources for peopleto win.
So I would love to talk toMarcus Buckingham about how he
even came up with the idea ofstrengths-based leadership.
And the other person I put inthat bucket is Richard Melman
from Let Us Entertain you.
I'll put you in the way backmachine friend Once again.
(49:51):
I wanted to work for RichMelman so bad back in the 80s
because what he was doing aroundpeople-centered leadership was
unheard of.
I mean, this is back whenpeople would throw a six pan at
you just because they didn'tlike how your hair was that day
and he was in there like doingthe right thing all the time,
(50:12):
not even a ninth pan, a sixthpan full.
No, like I'm going to hurt youwith this thing, right, and he
was out there buildingrestaurants around people, and I
never moved to Chicago.
I went up there in this is howlong ago it was.
I went, my husband and I wentin January to go visit Chicago
(50:33):
because it's one of my favoritecities and I had to buy a Sunday
paper so that I could see whatjobs were open for Richard
Melman.
That was my plan.
But if you've ever been toChicago in January, I remember
leaving with my big fat Sundaypaper on my lap and looking at
my husband going.
I don't think I can live here,it's too cold.
So I never worked for RichMelman, but I still have an
(50:55):
enormous amount of respect forhim because I think innovators
and disruptors are the peoplethat I want at my table and I
want to figure out how they cameup with the idea and what makes
them tick.
And then the last one is aroundthe simple truth that no one is
(51:15):
beyond redemption.
And that was his philosophy andthat's how he lived his life
and that's Nelson Mandela no oneis beyond redemption.
And he also said by the way,when you talked about the
impossible, people don't want todo the impossible.
He said it's only impossibleuntil somebody does it.
So those are the people I wouldhave at my table.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
You have an impressive set of board of
directors.
I tell you.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
I know right, I wish.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
I could actually get them all at a table together.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
I'm like we're doing some cool stuff.
You guys would love it, okay.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah.
So for the last question and Iknow you've been in recruiting
retention operations for manyyears not like that many but you
definitely know.
You know people.
You've had amazingconversations, whether it's how
(52:19):
they're helping shape others orhow you're giving them feedback
on how they shape others.
But what's one conversation inyour life or career that
reshaped how you show up as aleader?
Speaker 2 (52:38):
That's a really good question.
And a long time ago when I firststarted recruiting, I spent the
first 10 or so years of mycareer in operations.
I was a restaurant operator.
I was out there boots on theground every day and when I went
into recruiting, you knowpeople say how did you get into
(53:01):
recruiting?
And I always say did not askenough questions, right
recruiting.
And I always say did not askenough questions right.
But at the end of the day I gotinto recruiting because our VP
of operations came into myrestaurant one day and said you
have a great team, you have agreat staff, you hire really
great people.
You should apply for ourrecruiting position.
(53:21):
And I said I just hire peoplewho want to do this job and
would love it right.
And he said well, that's whatwe need.
So I applied and I got the jobagainst all the odds.
I still have no idea how I gotthat job, but I remember sitting
with him one day and we werekind of doing succession
planning, but I didn't know itwas succession planning at the
time.
But we were looking at where wehad some openings and we were
(53:45):
getting ready to open arestaurant in a fairly rural
area and I said I can't findanybody.
I just, you know, I don't knowwhat to do.
It's like it's a problem.
You know it's a big problem.
And he looked at me and I'llnever forget he had like one of
those voices, almost like JamesEarl Jones kind of voice, and he
looked at me and he said, lisa,when somebody comes to me and
(54:09):
they have a problem and theydon't have any recommendations
for solutions, that meansthey're whining and I don't like
whiners.
And I thought I mean I woulddrive the getaway car in a bank
robbery for this guy, like Iwould do anything for this guy.
(54:30):
And he just told me I was awhiner of all things right, I've
never been a whiner.
And it locked me up hard.
I was like oh my gosh.
And I told him.
I looked at him, I said I willnever do that again.
And he said doesn't matter ifyour solution is the one adopted
.
He said just never go in with aproblem that you don't at least
(54:52):
have ideas for solutions.
And it literally changed how Iview problems, because I don't
ever look at something like it'sa problem.
I always look at something likewhat are potential solutions to
this situation that I have thatI'm not going to call a problem
(55:13):
, because then I'll be a whiner.
And I try to come up with thembecause Tom Root calling me a
whiner like it broke me a littlebit and I was like I can't let
this happen anymore and to thisday he is one of the people that
I admire most.
But he taught me that lessonthat there is no problem that
(55:33):
doesn't have a solution.
You know, be the architect ofyour own problem, be the
architect of your own solution.
And I think I've used that andit's become a bit of a
superpower, because I thinkabout what could go wrong and
(55:53):
how can we plan for that, youknow.
And so people would always cometo me and they'd say I have
this idea, here's my idea.
What questions are they goingto ask me about this?
Where are the gaps?
What's missing?
Where am I going to get hit?
Because I'm always going tolook at something and go what
could be better?
How could I make this problemor this solution even better
(56:16):
than it is?
And he taught me that and whileit a little bit like it took me
aback because he never saidanything to me, that was like
negative before, but it reallyit tied a knot in my tail a
little bit, and I thought aboutthe world a little bit
differently after that.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
Very true words.
No one needs another voicestating what the issue is.
That's exactly why this meetingor phone call or conversation
is happening.
We need to speak to what areoptions for solutions.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yes, love that.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
Lisa, thank you so much for reminding us that
leadership is about designingsystems where people can rise,
especially those most overlookedTo our listeners.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with someone,
(57:17):
building a people first culture.
So subscribe, leave a reviewand visit Jason Ebrookscom for
more conversations like this.
Lisa, thank you so much forsitting down at the leadership
table and until next time,manage, lead, coach.
(57:40):
Repeat Lisa, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
I enjoyed it thoroughly.
It's so good to see you.
Speaker 1 (57:48):
Excellent.
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Leadership Table.
Today's guest is someone I'veknown and respected for over a
decade Actually, it's been over20 years.
We first worked together backin Charlie's even into Focus
Brands, now GoToFoods, and I'vewatched her leadership journey
(00:30):
evolve in really powerful ways.
Lisa Bowen is currently theFractional Program and
Partnerships Director at theGood Work Collective, a
nonprofit helping peopleimpacted by incarceration,
foster care and trauma rewritetheir stories and build
(00:51):
sustainable, thriving lives.
She's also someone that livedthis mission, serving as a
foster parent, adopting her sonthrough the system, adopting her
son through the system andvolunteering with organizations
like Ignite and Experience LifeConnected that uplift kids and
families in powerful ways.
(01:12):
But long before that, she washelping franchise brands,
restaurant operators andfrontline teams build better
cultures from the inside out.
Lisa, I'm so glad you're here.
This is going to be somethingmeaningful.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I tell you what it is so good to see you.
It has been a while, but, likeyou said, we go back a long way.
So I've watched your career.
I'm so proud of you.
I am just delighted to be herewith you today.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Thank you.
You know a lot of people don'tunderstand.
Well, no slash that.
Because the people that listento this podcast, they know our
industry is small, talked abouthow many different people that
we know, how they have impactedlives, teams, relationships in
(02:20):
many ways, and it's crazy howsmall this world is.
We think, oh, I would love togo here and meet this person and
meet that person, the people wemeet and the places we go
within this industry.
Although you don't want towrite a novel, we can absolutely
write several novels based onthese amazing characters.
So I thank you for wanting tobe on this podcast sitting at
(02:43):
the leadership table and helpingto let people know some of the
amazing things that you've beenworking on now.
You've led teams in restaurants, franchises and now nonprofits.
What's that red thread thatconnects it all and what brought
you to the Good Work Collective?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
That is a great question.
And a long, long time ago, backin O'Charlie's days, actually,
one of the vice presidents Iremember him saying to me Bowen,
we're in the people business,food is our product.
So that stuck with me for thelast 25 years.
(03:27):
And so the red thread that tiesall of these experiences I've
had together and brought me tothe Good Work Collective is just
that it's all about people.
My whole career, regardless ofwhat industry I was in, I
believe that the success of thatbusiness is dependent on the
people.
(03:47):
So I've always looked at it andsaid how can we build systems
where people can belong, feellike they're part of something
bigger than them and grow?
And the reason is because it'sjust good business right.
Everybody wins.
When you hire the right people,put them in the right place,
give them a fun, safe, clean,healthy place to work where
(04:10):
people care about them, yourresults are better it's.
You know, numbers don't lie.
So I think that you know so muchof what we do is dependent on
our frontline workers.
Because, at the end of the day,who has more contact one-on-one
(04:30):
contact with our guests, ourcustomers?
You know, depending on whatindustry you're in, if any
customer facing industry, whohas more contact.
It's the folks on the frontline.
So it's our responsibility, Ithink, to invest in them and
provide opportunities for themto be seen and heard so that
(04:52):
they can actually meet theirfull potential, and ultimately,
that's how you build ahigh-performing team.
So Good Work Collective allowsme to use all of the things I've
learned about people in thelast you know I don't even want
to say how many decades I'vebeen in this industry, because
it'll make me old but learningall of that about how to build
(05:13):
these cultures where people loveto be, good Work Collective
just allows me to use thosesuperpowers for something good.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Tell people about what the Good Work Collective is
, though, because, again, we cando research.
Check out your bio.
You are amazing, but the wayyou explained what the Good Work
Collective is, I was evenfloored by it.
Collective is I was evenfloored by it.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So essentially what the Good Work Collective does
and it's kind of a play on goodwork, right, because I spent a
lot of my career in recruitingand what I learned is that if
you give people the opportunityto do good work, that they're
motivated to do, that they liketo do and that they're
appreciated for, then they canprovide for their families, they
(06:08):
can grow, they can becomemanagers, they can become
directors of operation.
I mean, it isn't dependent.
Beautiful thing about theindustry is it's not dependent
on necessarily where you camefrom, but what you bring today.
And so the Good Work Collectiveworks with formerly
incarcerated or justice-impactedindividuals we're in Cleveland,
(06:31):
ohio, so our Clevelandneighbors that are impacted by
the justice system and formerlyincarcerated to give them job
skills and kind of a returningfrom prison entry into the world
and I'll talk a little bit moreabout that when we get deeper
into it.
(06:51):
And we do the same thing forkids who are aging out of foster
care.
My husband and I were fosterparents.
We adopted my youngest son fromfoster care and you know the
outcomes for kids that age outwithout any support net are
really not great.
And as we learned that as wegot into the system, that's when
(07:12):
we focused our own fostercareers on working with teens
who were going to age out of thesystem so that hopefully they
could have some tools andresources that once they aged
out they'd be able to actuallyget good work and be able to,
you know, not end up as one ofthose statistics and a bad
outcome.
So the Good Work Collectiveactually provides
(07:43):
trauma-informed education andresources with a paid program so
that they come into our programand they start to get paid day
one.
We're going to do culinarytraining because in the building
that we're housed in, which isa former settlement house in
(08:03):
Cleveland that is the newsettlement house now we're going
to have commissary kitchens anda cafe that our program
participants will learn in fromsome local chefs who are going
to come in and help with theprogramming.
On some of the technical skills.
They're going to get ServSafecertified.
We're going to do somecommunication and leadership
(08:25):
development so that theyactually can build their ability
to communicate with people whoare different than they are.
We're going to use DISC.
We're going to use situationalleadership.
We're going to use a lot of thetools that I came up with in the
industry so that people canthen graduate from our program
and essentially be ready to goin a kitchen in a front of the
(08:51):
house where they can get a job.
Some may go to culinary school,some may go to trade school,
some may go into entry levelcustomer service jobs jobs.
It really depends.
But we're going to give themall of those resources, in
addition to wraparound serviceswith other nonprofits who help
with, for example, adjudicationservices and housing services,
(09:16):
and there are just a number ofpeople that work that do a lot
of the similar work in differentarenas like housing and
transportation and differentkinds of therapies and things
like that.
That we'll all work together asa community and serve these
folks in our neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
That is amazing work and we are so similar, so a like
our focus on how can we makepeople better at being working
beside creating environmentswith other people.
There's a lot of times that wewill focus on so many other
(10:01):
technical skills, but how manyprograms do we have that help
make leadership better withinyour business model to provide
(10:22):
not only, of course, betterprofits, but just a better
systematic approach to buildingteams that know how to get the
goals that they set out?
For it doesn't matter if thatgoal is to build a daycare,
build a rocket, or build akitchen to put out some amazing
(10:44):
sauces, or build a kitchen toput out some amazing sauces.
How do you help put together ateam to do the impossible at a
very fast-paced, hot-working,emotional environment and be
successful at it?
And so I'm so glad that youaccepted to come on to the
(11:06):
leadership table to help definethat.
Now the good work is absolutelydoing that.
Your program, as you spelledout, it's not the typical
workforce prep.
It is very different from whatmost people get taught when it
comes down to workforce prep,and the people coming in have
(11:29):
different challenges.
Not that they're bad, theyaren't bad challenges, they're
just different challenges.
Now you've led, you've co-ledsome initiatives like Gangsta to
Genius and Foster to Fly.
How are those structured andwhat principles shape their
(11:50):
success for these initiatives?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I have to tell you I'm always about a good name and
a good tagline.
I can't help it, but we builtthese programs.
I will tell you how some ofthis stuff came to be right.
I did a half-day simulation nottoo long ago.
It was held at the JusticeCenter in my town and basically
(12:13):
you had to live through theexperience of being released
from jail after a felony andthey had people there from like,
probation and the drug testingplace and people that you could
go try to get a job with and youknow, food stamp people and
housing people and the pawn shopand going to get your ID and
(12:34):
all this kind of stuff.
And you had to go and executeall this stuff in a certain
amount of time, just like you doin real life life.
And when I got out I had asocial security card, a birth
certificate, a Walkman and 20bucks.
(12:57):
I didn't have enough money foran ID.
So I had to figure out how am Igoing to go get an ID, because
I can't go to probation, I can'tgo to get housing, I can't go
to get, can't do anythingwithout an ID.
So I was like, well, I'm goingto sell this Walkman, right, so
I go to sell the Walkman Guesswhat?
You need to go to a pawn shopand sell something, you need an
ID.
So I went through this andthere was an opportunity.
They created opportunitieseverywhere for you to steal, for
(13:21):
you to steal money, for you tosteal stuff, and we were told it
was okay as long as we don'tget caught.
But if we get caught we have togo back to jail, and getting a
job was impossible.
Everybody turned me down,partly because I didn't have an
ID.
I did have a Social Securitycard and a birth certificate,
(13:44):
but it was.
I was so upset by the time itwas over, and I was so angry
because I do understandrecidivism rates.
Right, it's part of my job.
Two out of three formerlyincarcerated people are
rearrested within three years.
Sixty percent remain unemployeda year after their release.
(14:06):
Anybody other than me think thatthose two things could be
related?
Right, if you can't have goodwork, you're going to have to
figure out a different way toput food on the table, and we
don't create environments wherepeople can do that.
So same thing with foster care.
Right, 50% of youth aging outare either homeless or
(14:29):
incarcerated before they're 25years old.
We give people like there'sthis sense that you can pull
yourself up by your bootstraps,but if there's not any access to
bootstraps, you don't get to dothat.
So what we're trying to doabout these systemic barriers
(14:50):
for people in these situationsis kind of providing them with
the bootstraps, if you will.
So what we want to do is createprograms, paid programs, so
that they're not actually tryingto steal to put food on the
(15:14):
table for their families.
I had a kid when I got out in myprogram and I had to buy school
supplies and I had to do stuff.
So what we do is we actuallyhave built these programs
essentially so that they'll havepaid training.
We will help them withoutplacement, hopefully working
(15:37):
with great hospitality companieswho want to hire our graduates
right.
Graduates right will work withculinary schools.
My son, my youngest son, wentto culinary schools, so there
are plenty of culinary schoolsout there that offer wonderful
scholarship programs but workwith them on things that will
(16:00):
help them build lives.
I mean, if you really look at it, the whole idea behind
incarceration is our justicesociety giving somebody their
debt to society.
You have to pay your debt tosociety, and that's what prison
is about, or jail or whatever itmay be.
When you get out, your debt isrepaid, according to our justice
(16:25):
system.
So why not provide somebodywith the resources so that they
can move forward after they'vepaid their debt and be able to
have a happy, productive life?
And that's what we designed ourprograms to do.
(16:45):
So, if you think about it, thepaid training is a big, big part
of this.
Without the paid training, itdoesn't work because they still
need to put food on the table.
So we designed the program tobe trauma-informed so that we
understand some of the behaviors, that we can work with people
(17:07):
that have those behaviors, andso that we can give them the
resources they need to get upjust to get some traction, to
get their bootstraps on, so theycan then pull themselves up by
them.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Now you are scaling these systems for bootstraps,
scaling these systems to heal.
You're helping license thismodel to new communities, not
just in Ohio.
How do you preserve heart andhumanity while designing these
systems for growth?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I will tell you, this is where some of my restaurant
experience is really coming inhandy, because I'm treating this
expansion and the scaling kindof like a high-touch hospitality
brand, right.
So when you franchise yourrestaurant space or license it,
(18:08):
you don't just give them amanual and walk away, right,
you're trying to keep the coreingredients the same in our case
trauma-informed care, paidpathways, leadership,
development and the fact thatthe community wraparound
(18:29):
services are there.
So, just like a restaurantfranchise, though, we let that
local market kind of influencethe flavor of what they're going
to ultimately produce.
So I think that piece of it andcreating licensing so that we
(18:50):
can scale this beyond Clevelandinto other distressed markets is
going to be the key.
But honestly, I'm just lookingat it like a restaurant
franchise.
We're going to provide support,we're going to provide the
playbook, we're going to providethe training programs.
But you know, the local peoplein the community, the ones who
(19:12):
are running this program,they're the ones who are going
to be on the news, you know, onthe morning show, on the radio
show, on a podcast like yours,talking about the work that
they're doing in their community, and it's very community
specific and, I think, just likeany restaurant company.
That's how we're looking at itand we're not chasing fast
(19:35):
growth.
That's not the idea.
That might be one place wherewe might differentiate from
restaurant franchising.
I think sometimes we grow alittle too fast in the
franchising world and we've seensome symptoms of that with some
of the closures and buybacks.
But that's not what we'rechasing.
We're more about chasing kindof a deep root, community-based
(20:03):
expansion, and for me it's waymore important that each
location does carry the samespirit of like radical welcoming
and accountability that we havein our program and that's more
(20:23):
important than you know puttingone in every city in the next
year, right.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I love the radical welcoming.
You know you've speaking ofrestaurant, restaurant industry
and the restaurant business.
You've sat on both sides of thetable and a lot of restaurant
owners, a lot of restaurantexecutives and HR teams know and
(20:53):
basically understand a littlebit about hard to hire talent.
But what should businessleaders know about hiring people
with justice or fosterbackgrounds?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Well, I think that there's a myth around them being
risky hires.
I will tell you from my ownexperience, people who have been
through the foster care systemor the justice system are some
of the most resourceful, loyal,hardworking people you will ever
(21:32):
meet in your life.
I agree, hardworking people youwill ever meet in your life.
In some cases they come fromgenerational trauma,
generational poverty and reallykind of haven't had a fair shot,
and I think when you give themone with the right support, like
what we're doing at Good WorkCollective, they'll knock it out
(21:57):
of the park.
And, frankly, there's data tosupport that.
By the way, the Harvard BusinessSchool actually did a research
paper and I'll provide it to you.
It's called Hidden Talent.
It's around staffing andfinding people to staff in kind
of hidden places, and I'm happyto share that with you so you
(22:18):
can share it with your audience.
But they found that employersreported to them that they have
higher retention rates informerly incarcerated team
members than they do from thegeneral population, than they do
from the general population Iwould love for you to send that
over and I will definitely putthat in the show notes with a
(22:42):
link to it.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And I think you're right.
Whenever we look at people thathave that kind of background,
there is a lot of commitmentthat they find because they know
that they're looked at acertain way.
They aren't blind to that fact.
And when someone not even takesa chance because it's not a
(23:05):
chance, gives the opportunity tobring them in, to offer them
good work, to help provide goodwork as well, that commitment is
tenfold than what we find outof any other applicant coming in
our doors or applying online.
(23:26):
So I agree with that statement.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, and I mean, it's one thing that I have
always loved about therestaurant industry and, like I
said, I've spent decades in it,from the time I was 13 years old
and working at the PurpleTurtle Dariette back before
there was T-Ball, there wereactual baseball teams that came
in, you know little tiny kidsfor ice cream.
(23:50):
But from those times untiltoday, our industry doesn't just
accept people from all walks oflife, but allows them to
actually reach their fullpotential.
Right.
It's always been about thequality of their work,
regardless of their past.
(24:11):
Look, you and I both knowpeople that have run divisions,
have run regions, have been vicepresidents, coos of restaurant
companies, have been owners,have been franchisees that never
set foot in a college classroom.
But I'll bet you, if you lookedat a job description, it would
(24:31):
say a college degree is required.
But what's required is somebodywho's really good at this, who
understands that.
High-quality food, keeping aplace clean, providing great
food, providing exceptionalhospitality.
I don't know.
I think that's something that'sjust ingrained in who you are
(24:54):
as a human, regardless of thecircumstances of your past.
And again, I'll bring back updebt to society paid.
Perhaps it would make sense forhiring managers to invest in
people who have paid their debtto society.
And let's face it, foster kidsare there through no fault of
(25:17):
their own, through no fault oftheir own, regardless of how bad
their situation was at home.
They would have way rather beenwith their family than been in
foster care.
It just wasn't safe for them,right?
That's not their fault.
And so many at a certain agedon't actually even get placed
into foster homes.
(25:37):
They go into group homes wherethey get very little kind of
individualized attention.
But you know, imagine themanager that takes that kid
under their wing and shows thema path to something that could
be way better.
There's going to be loyaltythere, I'm telling you right now
(25:58):
, and they will perform beyondyour wildest dreams.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
I'm telling you, it is all about belonging and
accountability.
It's not either or it is both.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's not either or it is both.
So how can operators and execsbuild cultures that expect more
and support more?
Really important and some ofthis is kind of my
trauma-informed background byworking with foster kids but a
lot of leaders and way too many,by the way, in my opinion avoid
really what they call difficultconversations or, you know,
hard conversations in the nameof being nice or trying to be
kind.
But the truth is clear.
Expectations are kindness,right.
(27:01):
Accountability isn't theopposite of compassion.
It's actually an expression ofcompassion, right.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
So we look at this at Goodwill Collective and we say
I call it positiveaccountability.
That's how I've taught it mywhole career.
It means that we're honestabout what's expected.
We're going to set clearexpectations, but we are not
punitive.
And I think this comes down toexamining your own motives for
(27:32):
those difficult conversations.
Right, are you a manager that'sgoing to go into this
conversation with Jason becausehe's late all the time, really
letting him know who's boss?
Are you going into thatconversation to just show him
who's right, or are you goinginto that conversation with
Jason so that you can help Jasonbe better?
And I think there are managersthat go into that conversation
(27:57):
that say I'm going to show himwho's the boss, and I think
that's the exact wrong way to goabout it.
I think that a lot of times weand I'm not for lowering the
standard, don't get me wrong youraise the level of support, you
don't lower the standard,because people will always
(28:17):
perform to your level ofexpectation.
Always, if you set the bar high, people will either perform to
that level or they will leave.
They will select, self-selectout, because they don't want to
work that hard.
They can't do it, whatever itmay be, or you'll be able to
show that they can't do it right.
If you lower the bar, I canassure you with absolute
(28:41):
certainty that people willeither drop to that level of
expectation or they will leavebecause they don't want to work
like that.
So lowering the bar is neverthe answer, but what you do have
to do is have clarity aroundwhat success looks like, and
that starts with your jobdescription.
(29:02):
I raised two kids that are inthis workforce right now and
they want to know what'sexpected of them with clarity,
because they want to do good.
They want to do good, they'renot lazy, they don't not want to
work, they work really hard.
But if they don't know whatsuccess looks like, what are
(29:24):
they supposed to do?
Then you have to use feedbackas fuel, not to beat people up,
not to create fear, and I'vewatched people use feedback like
a weapon.
I mean just bludgeon the heckout of somebody with their
feedback.
Constructive criticism,whatever you want to call it.
It's a shame-based thing and itreally shouldn't be.
(29:47):
It should be about movingforward, gaining agreement.
Hey, jason, you've been late, alot lately.
Is there something happeningthat I need to know about to
help you be on time?
You might say, oh, my kid'sschool schedule changed.
It's really hard for me to behere at nine o'clock.
In which case you look at thebusiness and say can I bring you
(30:09):
in at 915 instead?
Would that be helpful?
All of a sudden, jason's backon time again.
If it's not, then you have tosay okay, what can we do?
You explain how you know itaffects the team, how it affects
the guest, how it affects thebusiness, how it affects them,
and say can you agree, jason,that this behavior needs to
(30:31):
change and you need to be ontime.
And for the most part, if theyunderstand why they go, yeah,
lisa, that makes perfect sense.
What can I do to be on time?
Right, and then don't just letthat go.
People just go.
Okay, we've agreed, and thenit's done.
You have to visit, revisit andrevisit and come back to it and
be consistent.
(30:51):
And then you celebrate when ithappens.
You know you're a manager thatsays what do you need from me?
And then they do what you'veasked and you go.
Well, yeah, you did, because Itold you you had to.
Why don't you go, man?
That's awesome, you've donegreat, right.
So I think it's around.
People are going to makemistakes, heart of growing.
(31:16):
You've made them, I've madethem.
I make them all the time.
I mess stuff up all the time,but the same guy that told me I
messed up this morningAbsolutely.
Right, I logged into thisyesterday because I thought it
was Wednesday, look at the endof the day, you know, we all
make mistakes, and the same guythat told me it's all about
people, he's the one that toldme that if you don't make
(31:42):
everybody makes mistakes, justdon't make the same one over and
over and over again.
Right?
So growth includes mistakes.
And guess what, when people arenot afraid to fail, they're not
afraid that they're going tohave their manager beat the heck
out of them.
They learn faster and they dobetter faster, because failing
(32:06):
is just part of growth.
It's not something to beashamed of.
So I think those honestly.
If you know, that's how Iexplain it.
But I think it all starts withclear expectations.
This is a person who spent asmuch of my time in recruiting as
possible.
Being honest about what the jobis is where that all starts
Radical transparency.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
I actually want to go back to your definition of
accountability, because I speakto the same thing.
People take the termaccountability as that last step
right before they fire someoneand it's like, no, that's not
what accountability is.
Accountability is you havingthe true clarity, painting that
(32:55):
clear picture of what successlooks like within a specific
role, and it's not just one time, like you said.
Yes, it needs to be in the jobdescription, but it also needs
that reminder nearly every day.
Why?
Because we don't have AI thatworks for us.
Yes, some of us use chat, gptevery single day like they are
(33:20):
an employee, but when peoplewalk in your door, they have
many things that are on theirmind, whether it's bills or
things that need to get fixedwith their car or insurance or
medical or relationships orsocial media.
Yes, that is a real challengefor a lot of the people that
(33:41):
work for us.
But accountability is paintingthe picture of what does success
look like today, for the nextfour hours, the next eight hour
shift, next eight hour shift.
What does that look like fortoday?
To help them reset, to feellike that they know what success
looks like, how they can belongand get and reach to that
(34:04):
expectation and then giving thefeedback, like you said, in the
right way.
No, there's not always positivefeedback, but it is the way that
you deliver that feedback thatgets them to either A tune in
and then to react positively forfuture behavior or go on
(34:26):
defense just to try to tell thewhy they did something.
The why start with why, yes,but within that feedback context
, why does it matter?
It is changing future behaviorfor a better outcome by one
percent.
Just as long as it's by onepercent, then, yes, we are
(34:47):
making progress.
Want to shift gears?
Some, all right, many leaderstalk about impact, but your life
is built around it, from beinga foster parent to serving on
boards like Ignite andExperience Life Connected.
(35:08):
How do these personalcommitments influence the way
you show up in your work?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Well, I think I show up the same way in my life as I
show up in my work, and you knowwe had that conversation a
little bit earlier.
I believe that inStrengthsFinder I'm a maximizer,
right, I want to take good andmake it great, and that's just
how I look at people.
(35:39):
I think everybody has potentialand they just need resources,
they just need a chance, right,and not everybody's gonna.
You know, I've beendisappointed, right.
I mean not everybody's showedup the way that I wanted them to
, but it doesn't mean I'm goingto stop trying, right.
(36:00):
I'm not going to take the nextkid and say, you know, you're
not going to be okay because thelast one, you know, was a
challenge.
I'm just not.
It's not how I'm wired.
And you know my son was.
I'll give you an example of howI'm the same at home and at
work.
My youngest son was in culinaryschool and he did his capstone
(36:26):
project.
Which of all things?
He chose a Greek restaurant andI don't know, but he had
swordfish.
It was this delightful, likelemon swordfish, it was really
good.
And he had a gyro, like youwould expect.
But he I said, alex, you know,don't be surprised if it doesn't
(36:47):
go as well as you think it'sgoing to go, because I don't
know how many people are goingto come for Greek food.
He ended up having the schoolopened when I was in high school
, so it's been open for a verylong time and he had the third
largest sales of anyone else.
And I said why, why, how didthat happen?
You know, because I want toknow, it's Greek food.
And he said because we soldeverything.
(37:15):
And I said okay, tell me more.
And he said well, most of therestaurants they don't sell
everything because they can'tget it all out of the kitchen in
the time that we have, becausethey only serve for like two
hours a day.
You went in from 11 to 1, youcould go get lunch.
And he said they couldn't getall the food served so they
couldn't sell it all.
Right, and I said okay.
And I said they couldn't sellit all right.
(37:36):
And I said okay.
And I said well, why did yousell all of yours?
And he said well, when I had toassign people to stations, I put
them in the stations where theywere best.
I didn't put my friends in thegood stations and put other
people that I didn't like likein stations I knew they wouldn't
like.
He said I put them in thestations where they were going
to be good and I said, okay,aces in places, right.
(38:00):
And then he said and then whenthey were doing their prep, I
went to each one and I workedwith them for a little bit,
asked them if they neededanything and made sure that they
had their stuff ready to go ontime.
And then when we were inservice, I went back on the line
and helped them when I neededto.
But then I left them to dotheir thing and I went out in
the dining room and I talked toeverybody.
(38:21):
I made sure the servers wereokay and I said well, didn't
everybody else do that?
Don't they teach you that?
And he said, yeah, mom, no,they don't teach us that.
I said well, how did you knowto do it?
He goes, you taught me that.
He said you've been teachingMitchell and I that, since we
could string sentences together,how to like maximize people's
(38:41):
effort, and I didn't even know Idid it until he told me that.
But then when I was with mylast company, because of it we
actually created a leadershipprogram that stacked on top of a
high school culinary programthat taught leadership and how
to teach people to communicatewith people who are different
than they are.
You know, everybody in myfamily's taken a disc.
(39:03):
Everybody in my family's takenStrengthsFinder.
Like it's all around, likeunderstanding that who you are
at work is also who you are.
When you're not at work you mayhave some more relaxed behavior
, but at the end of the dayyou're the same person and the
activities you take place inoutside of work are probably a
(39:25):
reflection of the same kinds ofactivities that you have when
you're at work.
So I think, and a lot of it'sshaped by my parents, my parents
.
I grew up poor, but I neverknew we were poor Really,
because we always had a biggarden and we always had a cow
and a pig and you never namedthem and we had chickens and so
(39:47):
we always had fresh eggs.
My dad was a beekeeper.
You know, like I never knewthat we were poor really, until
I got to college and then peoplesaid what do you mean?
You make your own clothes.
And I was like I want stuffthat's different, you know.
So I go to the fabric store,you know.
You asked me where I got thisskirt.
(40:08):
You must like it, you know.
So I didn't know, but theytaught us that you know a good
book and a good meal.
You're not poor, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
And you give some to everybody else too right.
Wow, I mean first going back toyour youngest son's capstone
with mise en place, aces inplaces, matching the people on
your team's skill set with therole, servant leadership, and
(40:49):
then being the mayor of his fourwalls to make sure that
everyone was taken care of Allof the things.
That really makes restaurantbusiness work.
And what's crazy is you said it, you said it A lot of schools
don't teach that because it'snot sexy.
(41:11):
Yeah, like that, but what's notsexy is teaching true
leadership skills.
And that is just crazy to methat more schools don't lean on
(41:34):
that aspect when they have thedata, with him selling the third
highest sales since WithSwordfish.
It was crazy.
I mean, we live in a small town.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
I didn't think anybody would order it.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Thank you.
So anyways, I don't know thatwas.
That was amazing, but look, wecould.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
You know, and I will tell you that you know, this is
what I think.
I love the restaurant industry,which is why this work that
we're doing now, which is whythis work that we're doing now.
We made a conscious decision totie it into the restaurant
industry because these are goodjobs.
They're good jobs for goodpeople who just want to do good
(42:17):
work.
So if we can teach them theskills to be able to come out of
the gate after this nine to 12month program, we don't just
it's not a six week thing.
We work with them for anywherebetween nine months and a year
to get them up on their skills,to give them some experience, to
really allow them to grow andteach them.
(42:40):
You know things aroundself-awareness and managing
stress and communicating withpeople who are different than
you are, and you know when toapply direction and when to
apply support in leadership.
All of this stuff goes alongwith what we're doing, in
addition to therapy and thewraparound services that are
going to be provided by someother people.
(43:00):
But you know, restaurants areawesome.
They're awesome places to workand I will fight anybody who
argues with me about the factthat working in a restaurant a
busy restaurant on a Friday orSaturday night when everything
is hitting on all cylinders,it's the most fun you'll ever
(43:21):
have at work.
And if you say it's not, Iswear I will fight you because
it is so fun to work inrestaurants.
I mean, think about what we do.
We're literally table side atthe most important moments of
people's lives anniversaries,birthdays, graduations.
I remember one time I had someguys come into the restaurant
it's the middle of the day andthey got this huge table and
(43:43):
they were having cocktails outon the patio and I took them
some appetizers because theywere all drinking pretty good.
And I go, what are you guysdoing?
And they said we just came froma friend of ours funeral and
we're just telling stories abouthim and I was like y'all stay
as long as you want.
If you need cabs to get youhome, I'll get them for you.
It was back before Uber, but Iwas like I will do whatever you
(44:04):
need to do.
You guys enjoy yourselves.
I'll bring out some more appsfor you.
And you know, we don't know,because they don't always tell
you why they're there, but thereare moments that people
oftentimes can't get back.
You can't get back a first date.
You can't get back a 50thanniversary.
You can't get back the dinnerwhen the first kid in your
family graduates from college.
(44:26):
We just every moment thatpeople share or don't share with
us are special moments.
All life's special moments havefood and drink involved, almost
you know.
So we provide a service that'sinvaluable and training people
and getting them prepared to beable to do that and having
(44:48):
partners in the industry thatsee the value in that and are
willing to like work with us, tohire some of our folks or
sponsor a kitchen or whatever itneeds to be.
You know we're I'm always goingto work in the restaurant
industry in some way, shape orform.
I'm never going to work in therestaurant industry in some way,
(45:09):
shape or form.
I'm never going to.
From the time I was 13,probably earlier than that, I
was like nine when my parentsgave me an Easy-Bake oven for
Christmas and I would make thosestupid cakes and they're cooked
with a light bulb for the loveof all that's holy and I would
give them to my dad when hewould get home from a hard day
at work.
My dad was a carpenter.
I'd give him these cakes and hewould eat them.
He didn't even like sweets verymuch.
He would tell me how awesomethey were and I was like I'm
(45:31):
going to do this forever in someway, shape or form.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
And you know, good Work Collective is just allowing
me to do it in a different way.
Oh, lisa, your causes, yourmentality around leadership,
giving back and people isexactly what we should all be
striving towards Now.
I need to.
We could speak all day, but Iwant to get these, these, these
(46:01):
two signature questions, becauseI am really biting at the bit
to figure out what you're goingto say.
All right, so if you could sitat a leadership table with any
three leaders, a live or fromhistory, who would you choose
and why?
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Okay.
So you gave me a heads up aboutthis question, by the way,
which I appreciated, becausethree people is almost
impossible.
It's like so, and I'm a littlebit of a challenge the rules
kind of girl.
So I'm going to have threecategories of people.
(46:42):
Okay, categories of people so,but all of them, all of them
have a common thread of buildingsystems, creating environments
where people can thrive, doingsomething to make the world
(47:03):
better, and and that that, to me, is important.
So those are the people that Irespect.
So I put it into three buckets.
So I think about what people dowith their money is my first
category.
So from that standpoint, Iwould put Mackenzie Scott at my
table.
I would love to pick her brain.
(47:24):
She gives away a lot of money.
She has a lot of money.
She gives away big and fast andwithout strings.
It's not like a typical grant.
You can't go and apply to getmoney from Mackenzie Scott.
She finds you and she admiresthe work you're doing and then
(47:44):
she gives it and she trusts theleaders closest to the work to
use the money in the mostappropriate way.
It's brilliant.
Mark Cuban is another guy I'dput into that category.
I went to Kentucky, saw him abig basketball fan.
He bought a basketball team,which is cool, but that's not
why I would put him at my table.
He looked at the prescriptionmedicine system and said there's
(48:07):
got to be a better way.
Getting your medicationshouldn't bankrupt people.
So he built, took his moneythat he worked hard for, and he
built this platform that allowspeople to get more affordable
prescription medicines.
So I'd love to talk to himabout that.
The second category of peoplethat I would want to talk to are
(48:30):
people that built theirbusinesses around human beings,
right.
So one of my heroes and I heardyou talk about red threads
earlier and stuff like that Ilove Marcus Buckingham and, man,
I would give a million dollarsto pick that guy's brain if I
had it, which I don't but dataand dignity can exist together,
(48:58):
right.
And he takes data and appliesit to people no-transcript.
(49:28):
And we don't do that at GoodWork Collective either.
We don't fix people.
We provide resources for peopleto win.
So I would love to talk toMarcus Buckingham about how he
even came up with the idea ofstrengths-based leadership.
And the other person I put inthat bucket is Richard Melman
from Let Us Entertain you.
I'll put you in the way backmachine friend Once again.
(49:51):
I wanted to work for RichMelman so bad back in the 80s
because what he was doing aroundpeople-centered leadership was
unheard of.
I mean, this is back whenpeople would throw a six pan at
you just because they didn'tlike how your hair was that day
and he was in there like doingthe right thing all the time,
(50:12):
not even a ninth pan, a sixthpan full.
No, like I'm going to hurt youwith this thing, right, and he
was out there buildingrestaurants around people, and I
never moved to Chicago.
I went up there in this is howlong ago it was.
I went, my husband and I wentin January to go visit Chicago
(50:33):
because it's one of my favoritecities and I had to buy a Sunday
paper so that I could see whatjobs were open for Richard
Melman.
That was my plan.
But if you've ever been toChicago in January, I remember
leaving with my big fat Sundaypaper on my lap and looking at
my husband going.
I don't think I can live here,it's too cold.
So I never worked for RichMelman, but I still have an
(50:55):
enormous amount of respect forhim because I think innovators
and disruptors are the peoplethat I want at my table and I
want to figure out how they cameup with the idea and what makes
them tick.
And then the last one is aroundthe simple truth that no one is
(51:15):
beyond redemption.
And that was his philosophy andthat's how he lived his life
and that's Nelson Mandela no oneis beyond redemption.
And he also said by the way,when you talked about the
impossible, people don't want todo the impossible.
He said it's only impossibleuntil somebody does it.
So those are the people I wouldhave at my table.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
You have an impressive set of board of
directors.
I tell you.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
I know right, I wish.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
I could actually get them all at a table together.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
I'm like we're doing some cool stuff.
You guys would love it, okay.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
Yeah.
So for the last question and Iknow you've been in recruiting
retention operations for manyyears not like that many but you
definitely know.
You know people.
You've had amazingconversations, whether it's how
(52:19):
they're helping shape others orhow you're giving them feedback
on how they shape others.
But what's one conversation inyour life or career that
reshaped how you show up as aleader?
Speaker 2 (52:38):
That's a really good question.
And a long time ago when I firststarted recruiting, I spent the
first 10 or so years of mycareer in operations.
I was a restaurant operator.
I was out there boots on theground every day and when I went
into recruiting, you knowpeople say how did you get into
(53:01):
recruiting?
And I always say did not askenough questions, right
recruiting.
And I always say did not askenough questions right.
But at the end of the day I gotinto recruiting because our VP
of operations came into myrestaurant one day and said you
have a great team, you have agreat staff, you hire really
great people.
You should apply for ourrecruiting position.
(53:21):
And I said I just hire peoplewho want to do this job and
would love it right.
And he said well, that's whatwe need.
So I applied and I got the jobagainst all the odds.
I still have no idea how I gotthat job, but I remember sitting
with him one day and we werekind of doing succession
planning, but I didn't know itwas succession planning at the
time.
But we were looking at where wehad some openings and we were
(53:45):
getting ready to open arestaurant in a fairly rural
area and I said I can't findanybody.
I just, you know, I don't knowwhat to do.
It's like it's a problem.
You know it's a big problem.
And he looked at me and I'llnever forget he had like one of
those voices, almost like JamesEarl Jones kind of voice, and he
looked at me and he said, lisa,when somebody comes to me and
(54:09):
they have a problem and theydon't have any recommendations
for solutions, that meansthey're whining and I don't like
whiners.
And I thought I mean I woulddrive the getaway car in a bank
robbery for this guy, like Iwould do anything for this guy.
(54:30):
And he just told me I was awhiner of all things right, I've
never been a whiner.
And it locked me up hard.
I was like oh my gosh.
And I told him.
I looked at him, I said I willnever do that again.
And he said doesn't matter ifyour solution is the one adopted
.
He said just never go in with aproblem that you don't at least
(54:52):
have ideas for solutions.
And it literally changed how Iview problems, because I don't
ever look at something like it'sa problem.
I always look at something likewhat are potential solutions to
this situation that I have thatI'm not going to call a problem
(55:13):
, because then I'll be a whiner.
And I try to come up with thembecause Tom Root calling me a
whiner like it broke me a littlebit and I was like I can't let
this happen anymore and to thisday he is one of the people that
I admire most.
But he taught me that lessonthat there is no problem that
(55:33):
doesn't have a solution.
You know, be the architect ofyour own problem, be the
architect of your own solution.
And I think I've used that andit's become a bit of a
superpower, because I thinkabout what could go wrong and
(55:53):
how can we plan for that, youknow.
And so people would always cometo me and they'd say I have
this idea, here's my idea.
What questions are they goingto ask me about this?
Where are the gaps?
What's missing?
Where am I going to get hit?
Because I'm always going tolook at something and go what
could be better?
How could I make this problemor this solution even better
(56:16):
than it is?
And he taught me that and whileit a little bit like it took me
aback because he never saidanything to me, that was like
negative before, but it reallyit tied a knot in my tail a
little bit, and I thought aboutthe world a little bit
differently after that.
Speaker 1 (56:37):
Very true words.
No one needs another voicestating what the issue is.
That's exactly why this meetingor phone call or conversation
is happening.
We need to speak to what areoptions for solutions.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yes, love that.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
Lisa, thank you so much for reminding us that
leadership is about designingsystems where people can rise,
especially those most overlookedTo our listeners.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with someone,
(57:17):
building a people first culture.
So subscribe, leave a reviewand visit Jason Ebrookscom for
more conversations like this.
Lisa, thank you so much forsitting down at the leadership
table and until next time,manage, lead, coach.
(57:40):
Repeat Lisa, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
I enjoyed it thoroughly.
It's so good to see you.
Speaker 1 (57:48):
Excellent.
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