August 7, 2025 • 41 mins
The Virtuous Act of Hospitality: Restoring Generosity and Culture with Steve Fortunato
👤 Guest:
Steve Fortunato
Founder & CEO, Hospitality Collaborative
Author of The Urgent Recovery of Hospitality
đź“ť Episode Summary:
In this episode of The Leadership Table, Jason E. Brooks sits down with Steve Fortunato to explore hospitality as a virtuous act—one rooted in generosity, intentionality, and human connection.
From his early experiences in a hosting home to founding roomforty, Pharmacie Bar + Kitchen, and the broader Hospitality Collaborative, Steve’s journey reframes catering not as an afterthought—but as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for meaning and impact.
Steve also shares insights from his book The Urgent Recovery of Hospitality, unpacking how value creation, not value extraction, defines the future of great leadership. The conversation covers practical frameworks for speaking the good, building team culture, and creating virtuous cycles that elevate both guest experience and internal growth.
🔑 Key Takeaways:
- Hospitality is fundamentally about creating meaningful, affirming experiences.
- Foundational moments—especially in childhood—shape leadership instincts.
- Catering should be mind-blowing, not “good for catering.”
- Intentionality matters more than appearance or volume.
- Value creation is the defining trait of future-ready leaders.
- Recognizing and celebrating others fosters lasting loyalty.
- Small, authentic check-ins build strong team culture.
- Leaders grow by noticing, affirming, and re-centering on purpose.
⏱️ Chapters:
00:00 – The Essence of Hospitality
 01:59 – Foundational Experiences in Leadership
 04:56 – Convergence of Values and Intentions
 07:57 – Redefining Catering in Hospitality
 13:50 – The Virtuous Act of Hospitality
 19:48 – Creating a Virtuous Cycle in Leadership
 26:22 – Building Culture and Accountability
 30:38 – Leadership Lessons from Influential Figures
đź’¬ Sound Bites:
“It’s a virtuous act.”
 “Catering should be mind blowing.”
 “We are encouraged into growth.”
đź”— Guest Links:
- Website: stevefortunato.com
- Instagram: @steve_fortunato
- LinkedIn: @Steve Fortunato
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🎧 Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you listen.
If this conversation resonated with you, please:
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- đź’Ś Share it with a hospitality or service-minded leader in your circle
For more insights, tools, and frameworks to scale smarter and lead stronger, visit jasonebrooks.com and check out the weekly coaching circle at aimdrivescale.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Leadership Table, where we dive
into conversations that helphospitality leaders scale
smarter and lead stronger.
I'm your host, jason E Brooks,and today I'm joined by Steve
Fortunato, founder ofHospitality Collaborative and
the author of the UrgentRecovery of Hospitality.
(00:27):
Steve's work is a powerfulreminder that hospitality is
more than service.
It's a virtuous act, so let'sget into it.
Steve, welcome to theleadership table.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
How's it been?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
going.
It's been going really well.
It's been going really well.
It's been an exciting time.
It's been fun.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Good stuff, good stuff.
You are in the SouthernCalifornia area where it's
always sunny, never rainy.
Is that actually true?
Or is that just some cool 90sR&B song of?
It Never Rains in SouthernCalifornia.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I love that song.
I love that song.
You just dated yourself.
I just felt completely in goodcompany.
It's sunny most of the time,man, really.
Yeah, currently I'm actually inMontana and it is beautiful and
there's trees everywhere andit's a little more temperate.
(01:28):
Southern California can get tothe 90s in March, so it's nice
to be on a trip.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You not only travel in life, but you've also
traveled within your career.
You know your journey begunbusing tables at 15 to building
out hospitality collaborative.
That is incredible.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
What foundational experiences shaped your
leadership approach early on.
I would say one of the earliestfoundational experiences would
be my childhood, just growing upin a hosting home and growing
up with an attention to detailand seeing how details set the
table and it sort of provided acontainer for the experience.
(02:28):
Simultaneously, I would say Icouldn't name this.
But a second foundationalexperience would be the
dissatisfaction with what washappening at the table, feeling
like we have gone to theselengths and I feel like this
should feel more comfortable.
(02:48):
I feel like conversation shouldbe more engaging or more fun.
That would be a secondexperience.
I think the third experience wasjust cannonballing into the
restaurant world and into thehospitality world, as you said,
as a very young person.
I was 14 and 15 when I firststarted working in restaurants
(03:09):
and I was by far the youngestguy on the totem pole.
I was working with post-collegestudents and there was a
recognition from the managementthat for a teenager, this kid
has intuitive instincts around atable and I think that was a
foundational experience,recognizing a comfortability and
(03:31):
a familiarity with guestssitting at a table, with serving
, with clearing, with talkingabout food, with reading
intuitively what was happeningat a table.
So those were some earlyexperiences.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Now you said hosting home.
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
What I mean by that is that my parents were often
inviting people over to stay inour home or to come over for a
meal, and my mom would prepare ameal and what that looked like
was sort of elaborate meals withrecipes.
At the time she read GourmetMagazine and so she would read
(04:13):
this elaborate recipe and she'dbe cooking for a while, and I
grew up with seasonal dishes, sowe had a set of dishes for each
season and then we had thechina cabinet that we'd bring
the you know the fine china outof which was don't get me wrong,
that was my home.
I also grew up a surfer rompingaround in the Redwoods, so I
(04:37):
was.
There was definitely a someparadox to my early years to my
early years.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You know it's great that you are on the right
podcast with the leadershiptable, and your table did
revolve a lot of people from alot of different walks of life.
Not only that, but then, onceyou got into the business, you
were also understanding a verydifferent view of what that
table is.
How do you think that thatshaped you getting into building
(05:15):
brands and reflecting yourvalues?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I would describe it as convergence.
Hmm, I would describe it asconvergence, I think, often
(05:43):
early Jason, how do I get toTennessee?
And you said, well, youdefinitely don't go to Oregon,
you really don't want to go toOregon.
I get it, but how do I get toTennessee?
How do I accomplish where Iwant to go?
And so once reaction and sortof anti gets out of you, then
(06:04):
you have to set your North Star.
So that was certainly acomponent, was getting really
clear on what I didn't want todo, but I think, simultaneously
feeling like in my early yearsthere was attention to detail
but we missed the forest for thetrees and and the intention had
come a distant second to theattention of detail.
(06:40):
Something has entered the worldof hospitality the experience of
our gatherings.
That is not the highest goal ofwhy we're gathering, which is
attention around this restaurant, attention around this chef,
attention around the design.
All of those things are meantto serve what I believe is a
(07:00):
higher purpose, which is what ishappening amongst us
relationally and collectivelyand energetically, as we sit and
eat together and experiencebeauty and then try to reflect
that beauty.
So that was sort of the secondthing that shaped my approach.
And then I think the thirdthing was being really inspired
as an entrepreneur by brandsthat were disrupting questions
(07:22):
that they were asking why do wehave to do it that way?
What if we did it that way?
What if we did it this way?
And studying the lives and thebusiness trajectories and the
work cultures of some of thosecompanies really inspired me.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So I think all of those things sort of converged
to begin to shape how Iapproached what I was building
of converge to begin to shapehow I approached what I was
building, even as you say that,when I of course did my research
on Room 40 and pharmacy bar andkitchen.
It is a very different type ofgathering space, a different
(08:00):
type of catering approach, evendown to the skills put into the
seating and the tables.
How did you?
You just explained that truly.
But that approach in buildingbrands is it common?
Do you think that it reallyfills the void of what you saw
(08:26):
from your past, or what you sawthat customers guessed not just
customers guessed needed inorder to see that intentionality
in where they were eating, whythey were eating there and then
the conversations that they'rehaving at that table?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
that they're having at that table.
Yeah, I want to be careful tonot represent this over.
Clear picture of the future.
Intention and path aresometimes two different things.
You can set your intention, butthen the reality path sets in.
You know, you can set yourintention to be a great fighter
(09:06):
and, as Mike Tyson said,everybody's got a plan until
they get hit in the mouth.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Until they get hit in the mouth.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah.
So I think that there was someintention set and, like all
entrepreneurs, you kind of failforward and you hit some brick
walls and you experience theemotion of that and the whatever
emotion you're having, theincredulity, the sense of
failure, the confusion, thinkingI thought I saw where we were
(09:35):
headed.
But invariably, if you letthose brick walls actually begin
to shape your path, you kind ofstumble in to what your path is
meant to be and there's sort ofan aha.
And that's really what happenedfor me is that I had this
intention of what I wanted toaccomplish.
I had some really good adviceand someone came and said start
(10:00):
doing some gatherings, do itoutside of the restaurant.
I worked in a white tableclothrestaurant and at the time the
lines around white tableclothand fine dining were drawn very
clearly.
Pop-ups were not yet a movementyet and so I started doing
these gatherings, that sort ofjuxtaposed fine dining and
unorthodox spaces and museumsand galleries and private
(10:23):
estates, talking about thisrestaurant that I was going to
open called Room 40.
And the brick walls came inforce as I was sending LOI after
LOI after LOI to theselandlords trying to get a
restaurant lease, and I couldnot get a restaurant lease,
which I found confusing becauserestaurants open and close in LA
all the time and people werecoming to these dinners that I
(10:47):
was doing saying, man, I wish wehad this as a catering event.
Man, I wish you could havecatered my wife wedding, I wish
you could have catered my 40th.
But you know you're not doingthat.
You're opening a fancyrestaurant and I kind of read
the writing on the wall as Ispoke about earlier disruption,
blue ocean thinking, which iseveryone's doing all these ideas
(11:09):
very similarly and it's turnedinto a red ocean.
There's a great big blue oceanout there.
What could we try, what if?
And I just had a real change ofperspective and paradigm and I
realized catering is a follower.
In the hospitality space,restaurants are the leader and
that's kind of tragically ironicbecause you go to these
(11:30):
phenomenal restaurants and it'sjust thursday night but on a
once in a lifetime, once in adecade event, you kind of go.
It wasn't bad for catering,which is ironic because you're
never going to experience thisevent Again.
Catering should be mind-blowing.
And that's when I kind of had achange of perspective and I
(11:51):
said you know what?
What if there was an experienceof catering that really closed
that gap between the greatrestaurant experience and the
catered format, which is reallyhard for lots of reasons
Obviously, the logisticalreasons, the lack of a
commercial kitchen on some ofthe event spaces that you go to,
one of the greatest problemsworking with an itinerant staff
(12:14):
it's a gig-based worker economy.
So you have this grand canyon ofinvestment between the client
and the front line.
The client has never been thisinvested in the event.
You know if you're spending$1,000 or $300 at a great
restaurant experience, you'respending $30,000 at, you know, a
(12:35):
catered event.
So you've never been soinvested as a client and as a
frontline worker server,bartender you might work for 10
different catering companies andthis is just one more event on
your gig roster.
So how do you close that gapand really provide that great
experience of service?
(12:55):
How do you execute six coursesin a vineyard up on a mountain?
How do you continue to getcatering events in the space
that you want to cater whencatering, especially in Southern
California, is cyclical?
So there was a lot ofchallenges in embracing that as
the world I wanted to get in,but 18 years later I'm really
(13:19):
glad I did.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
And it sounds like you're doing very well.
Now I actually work with theOff-Premise Growth Academy with
Earl Dardick, and I didn't evenknow we were going to really get
this deep into the cateringworld is levitating miles above
what most people picturecatering as.
(13:42):
But the way that you justdefined it, it's very specific.
In you go to a nice restaurant,a really nice one, and, yes,
it's just another Thursday, andhow catering should be is a once
(14:04):
in a lifetime event.
That's how we should treat itwithin the execution as well.
I think you said that soelegantly, so you know.
I also want to get into yourbook.
Your book frames hospitality asa virtuous act, similar to how
(14:26):
you view catering as well, youknow, one that rebuilds
communities.
What sparked you to write theUrgent Recover of Hospitality
and what's the core message youhope leaders take away?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
What sparked me was recognizing in myself an inner
conflict.
I was trying to build thiscompany that was mission driven,
that was disruptive, and I wastrying to build this company
that was mission driven, thatwas disruptive.
And companies that aredisruptive for a good cause they
often get noticed and itcreates this sense of inertia.
(15:08):
Where they've set what it isthat they want to do, they start
doing it, they get noticed,they're able to accomplish more
good, they're able to increasetheir impact, and it felt like
that kind of recognition waseluding me and I was really
(15:28):
frustrated by that.
I had been building my companyand I had been working hard to
create a great culture and agreat product and it felt like
the recognition and the valuethat I was looking for as an
entrepreneur, as a founder, as aservice provider, as a you know
, we call ourselves momentarchitects as a moment architect
(15:48):
, it felt like that was eludingme and I was frustrated.
And I had this moment ofclarity where I realized I'm
looking for recognition, I'mlooking for our company to be
valued in an industry that isall about, or should be all
(16:11):
about, recognizing others andvaluing others.
And I realized that as Iidentified that dilemma inside
of me.
I began to see that dilemmainside of me, I began to see
that dilemma outside of me and Ibegan to file a lot of my
experiences in hospitality intwo vastly different categories.
Some of them just felt sowelcoming and they brought
(16:36):
something out in me by way ofgratitude and generosity that I
just wanted to return to theprovider and it just created
this virtuous cycle, this senseof generativity where we had a
great conversation or a memorywas made.
Then there were these otherexperiences where I felt like I
(16:56):
was a kid in a playground tryingto get in the game and there
was a bouncer checking to see ifI qualified and I wanted to
look at them and say you know,I'm the customer right.
And I identified what is thethrough line in these two vastly
(17:18):
different experiences withinthe same industry.
Ah, one of these experiences islooking to get value, is
looking to be recognized for thevalue they bring for their
craftsmanship, and one of themis looking to value others and
recognize others.
And I saw that, that conflictthat I had identified in myself
(17:39):
looking to be valued, proving myvalue, looking for validation,
for recognition, in a momentthat should be about recognizing
others, valuing others.
I recognized that dilemma andthat paradox within my industry.
And then I looked beyond myindustry and I recognized it and
(18:00):
identified it everywhere,recognized it and identified it
everywhere.
And just our interactions ashumans.
What happens when we whether itis an interaction with a fellow
parent on the PTA community, ora spouse or an employee or
someone that is checking you inon an airplane, whatever level
(18:21):
of interaction we're having withpeople when both parties are
looking to be valued, when bothparties are looking to be
recognized, it breaks the sauce.
But when someone goes I'm goingto go first.
It's very similar to breathing,jason.
If I want to get that nextbreath that is critical for my
(18:43):
existence, I have to give thebreath that I have away.
And when I give that breathaway, I make space to take that
other breath.
And that is how life happens,that is how generativity happens
, that is the ecology of value,of existence.
And so I know that sounds wildlyesoteric, but as I played this
(19:11):
thing, you know, as I sort ofreverse engineered, recognizing
this dilemma in me going, I'mtrying to be valued and in these
moments I should actually bevaluing others.
I'm trying to be recognized andin these moments I should be
recognizing others.
I'm trying to be celebrated formy craft and instead I should
be leveraging my craft tocelebrate others.
(19:32):
I recognized this dilemma andthe circles that I saw this
dilemma existing in just gotwider and wider and wider, and
that is what really sparked thisdesire to write this book, not
from a place of.
I have realized this, I havemastered this, and now let me
(19:55):
bring the pearls that I've minedto everybody else.
More like, oh my God, thistension so exists inside of me
and I'm discovering ways that Ican reset my North Star and it's
creating something different,energetically with me and my
(20:15):
people with me and myrelationships with me and my
clients.
So it was really from thisplace of enthusiasm and
excitement that I wanted to sayhere's some things I'm
discovering that are helping me.
I'd love to share it.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
What are some ways that our listeners, business
owners, operators, executiveshow can they take this virtuous
cycle and begin viewing guestexperience differently, or team
development differently, withintheir four walls or within their
(20:52):
organization?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, there is a framework that I unfold in the
second part of the book, but Ithink the very first thing is
just recognizing it.
I think that this movement fromlooking for recognition what I
call the vicious cycle thismovement from the vicious cycle
to the virtuous cycle, it's nota one and done transaction.
(21:17):
There's no snake oil formulathat's going to permanently
transform you into operating onthe virtuous cycle.
I think it's just noticing.
It's noticing what's happeninginside of ourselves first and
that's really what EQ is is it'srecognizing the impact of us on
(21:37):
others.
And I think that in noticingthese cycles, the first thing we
do is we recognize ourintentions.
What am I trying to get out ofthis moment?
What do I want out of thisinteraction?
And I think then, once we'venoticed that we talk about four
things that leaders can do tobegin to create more of these
(21:59):
virtuous cycles and it's afour-part framework, virtuous
cycles.
And it's a four-part framework,it starts with speaking the
good, honoring those you serve,earning the respect of others as
opposed to expecting it andthen celebrating and improving.
Sometimes we have thesecultures of celebration and it's
just enthusiasm andeverything's great.
Other times we have theseenvironments that are just
(22:20):
unrelenting in their push forgrowth.
I feel wisdom is found inparadox.
So speaking the good words havepower.
What you focus on grows, and Ithink the very first thing
leaders need to do is they needto speak the good in themselves.
Oftentimes leaders are reallyreally hard on themselves, but
(22:41):
that is an economy if you'reexisting in, even if you are
trying to edit your language tothose that you lead and those
that you follow.
Inside there's an internalcritic and that sense of
criticism is going to leak outin your leadership and I believe
that we, as hosts, can't makepeople feel at home until we're
(23:03):
at home with ourselves.
So the way the first thing wedo is we just start to speak the
good inside of us.
We just start to notice thegood.
Because we are over the longtail, we are encouraged into
growth.
There is certainly a shortseason, maybe for one
accomplishment, one accolade,one vista that we're trying to
(23:24):
climb, that driving voice mightget us there short term.
But if we're looking at growthas a long-tail game, nobody is
berated into growth.
If you think of a little kidwhen they're learning how to
walk or learning how to dosomething new, the parents are
around jumping up and downsaying you're doing it, you're
doing it, keep going.
The parents are around jumpingup and down saying you're doing
(23:45):
it, you're doing it, keep going.
And, as you know, as a host ofleaders and as a leader yourself
, leadership is very lonely.
It's a very difficult journeyto quantify for those around you
, and so it really starts withspeaking the good in yourself.
Then we talk about speaking thegood in your company, your
(24:07):
colleagues, your clients.
Oftentimes there's a tendencyto get loose-lipped with our
exasperation with clients, sortof that reaction from the
customer is always right,knowing the customer is not
always right, but we can getexasperated with these clients.
And I think that when we beginto speak the good toward our
(24:28):
clients' intentions, ourcolleagues' intentions, our
company's intentions, and wedon't fall for that us against
the man thing, but we actuallygo, what's the good that I can
speak?
That starts the cycle beginningto turn, and I won't go through
the whole framework, but thereare practical, there's
(24:50):
principles, and then there'spractices that I talk about in
the book.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Now, steve, I love your framework.
Whenever you and I spoke a fewweeks ago, we talked through
both of our frameworks orapproaches to what we coach, to
our mantra, to how we build andlive, because it's not just a
(25:16):
business, it's how we view life,and your framework reminds me
of two of my frameworks.
Of course, one is aim drive,scale, and that drive phase is
when generosity fuelsaccountability and teams move
(25:37):
from being reactive to proactivein their leadership, because,
even though it is a team underor working for a individual
there, they they are still beingproactive within their own
leadership as well.
Leadership isn't just a tag fora boss, it is how you view and
(26:00):
and approach things.
How you view and approachthings.
One of my other frameworks isleading with the right mindset,
and one of the core questionsthat I think whenever leaders
are able to have the rightmindset going into situations,
is, by asking a very simplequestion of what does this
(26:24):
situation need from me, or whatdoes this person need from me,
and giving that pause andthinking through what does this
situation need from me or of me,you're able to, more so, lead
with a.
Does it need structure?
Does it need vision?
(26:44):
Does it need growth, does thisperson need growth?
But taking that pause to beable to understand where you're
currently at, what the goal isfor this situation, to help move
to success for that environment, person or situation, that's
what helps to give that rightmindset.
(27:06):
So, as you speak through yourframeworks, it also helps me or
reminds me thinking through mine, with the aim, drive, scale and
also with the leading, with theright mindset, which is
managing versus leading, versuscoaching.
Now, a lot of what we teachhelps to build culture within
(27:28):
individuals, also within brands,and building culture across
multiple brands is no small feat.
How do you instill leadershipand accountability inside your
teams while still keeping theheart of hospitality at the
center?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I've learned the power of leading small moment by
small moment, small interactionby small interaction.
I think the concept ofprotracted periods of silence,
followed by a quarterly review,followed by a quarterly review,
(28:09):
that model, I think, is becomingmore and more antiquated for
people to feel seen, for peopleto feel guided, for people to
experience what you have triedto set as your culture.
So how have I done it?
I do it one small moment at atime, whether that be a specific
check-in about you knowsomeone's life.
(28:30):
Hey, how was your weekend?
How was your daughter'sgraduation?
I know you were celebratingyour mom's birthday.
How did that go?
Noticing something that they'redoing, catching them doing
something right, not making itthis formal presentation, not
making it a sit down, but sayingsomething more specific than
you know good job, which isobviously something I'm sure
(28:51):
you've heard.
You know good job is notspecific.
So, giving, we all need to hearan attaboy, attagirl.
We all need to feel like we'redoing, we're on the right track.
And then, secondarily, when itcomes to accountability, I think
accountability starts withclear expectations.
One of the things that leadersoften presume is that they're
(29:13):
being heard, and so one of mysmall practices is, after I
communicate, I say what is itthat you heard?
And after someone elsecommunicates to me, I say this
is what I hear you saying.
Did I get that right?
(29:33):
And giving people theopportunity to clarify, because
I think that feeling seen andfeeling heard are two
prerequisites to people feelingengaged, people feeling part of
your culture, people wanting tofollow your leadership, people
feeling safe and trusted.
So we could assume, based onsomeone's body language or based
(29:58):
on their eye contact, that theyare feeling seen and they are
feeling heard.
But I think it requires acheck-in.
Did I hear what it was that youwere needing me to hear?
How are you feeling after thisinteraction?
Did you get what you needed?
Or, if I'm the onecommunicating, what is it that
you hear me saying?
(30:19):
And oftentimes they'll repeatsomething back which was not at
all what you were saying, and itgives you the opportunity to
clarify and say no, I'm notsaying that, here's what I
really want you to hear, andtake a second pass at it.
So those are small littlepractices.
They're not grand philosophies,they're not esoteric treasures.
(30:43):
They're just little ways that,day in and day out, we begin to
ask questions, clarify, setexpectations, mirror what we
heard, ask other people tomirror what they heard.
Check in with them.
On a personal note, those arethe types of things that we do
that help imbue culture and holdpeople accountable.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Every single leader listening and watching right now
can take today and apply todaythat clarification, that
verification of how you're beingheard, if you're being heard
and also what you're hearing aswell.
That can close the window on somuch confusion within not just
(31:50):
our business life but ourpersonal life as well.
Now I know I've I have had youhostage for almost 30 minutes
now, so we are going to closewith some signature questions
that I ask everyone that comesto the leadership table,
questions that I ask everyonethat comes to the leadership
table.
If you had a seat at aleadership roundtable with three
others, living or historicalwho would you choose and why?
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Oh man, jason, that's a tough question for lifelong
learners.
I see your bookshelf you canimagine mine's packed with the
lives of leaders that have soinspired me.
I am really inspired by YvonneSchuenard culture and great
(32:42):
impact on the planet on a causegreater than themselves.
Even if you might not identifywith the cause that he has
picked as his own, there is analignment that he has worked
into the fabric of his company,where his products are, like I
said, they're very high quality.
(33:02):
Nobody would ever second guessthe quality of Patagonia and
they are an adventurer's or anature person's product.
It's not a product for peoplethat aspire to nature but don't
want to pay for the higherquality, and his culture is
filled with people that arepassionate about what he's
(33:24):
passionate about, and his impactand what he does with his
profits goes beyond his owninterests.
I find that very inspiring.
I find the leadership of PeteCarroll very inspiring.
I'm a football fan.
I've been a Seahawks fan.
I've been struggling with whatto do now that he's the coach of
(33:45):
the Raiders.
But whether or not you are afootball fan, one of the things
that Pete Carroll doubled downon was that you could draw out
excellence, the highest level ofexcellence from your team while
(34:07):
being an encourager and anaffirmer of them, and that is in
no way to say there's anabsence of accountability.
People get cut from the teamleft and right, people get
benched, people get disciplined,but he doubled down on the way
to actually draw sustained, longterm excellence while
(34:27):
simultaneously building a greatculture.
I'm going to do that throughaffirming people, by noticing
the good and also taking aholistic view of leadership.
You know, pete Carroll was thefirst NFL coach to invite Brene
Brown into the locker room andmost people would not think of
you know someone like BreneBrown?
(34:48):
Now they would, but at the time, brene Brown coming into an NFL
team room was a jarringjuxtaposition and I just really
admire his leadership.
I think Joe of Trader Joe's youknow, in looking at how he was
incredibly savvy, how, again, hewas a disruptor, he didn't look
(35:13):
at the way that the groceryexperience happened and go how
can we do it?
The same, but just a little bitdifferent?
You know, he literally had afraction of the number of SKUs
that most grocery stores had,which was just.
It defied logic.
Well, if it's a grocery store,you need to have 12 different
(35:35):
types of X, and you know to thisday, trader Joe's.
You know, if you go to acertain grocery store and you
say do you have tahini paste,they'll say I don't know.
And if you go to other grocerystores and you say, do you have
tahini paste?
They'll say check out five.
If you go to Trader Joe's andyou say, do you have tahini
(35:57):
paste?
They'll say come with me.
And the way that that visionhas, for decades, worked itself
out into his front line, wherehere you have an experience of
baggers, checkers, stalkers, andthey feel happy to be at their
job, even amid what is happeningin our current society with how
(36:21):
people feel about work and howpeople show up for work.
You walk into Trader Joe's andit's a different experience.
How did he do that?
That inspires me and I wouldlove to just sit down with those
three leaders and ask a couplequestions and then shut up.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Well, I am absolutely jealous of your roundtable
leadership board members.
Those three are amazing.
So now for the final questionCan you share a single
conversation?
I know you've had lots ofconversations throughout your
journey and you're still havingthem to this day, but can you
(37:02):
share a single conversationmaybe unexpected that shifted
how you lead, hire or servetoday?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
serve.
Today I'm actually sitting inthe place where I wrote a lot of
the book.
I'm up in Montana and I broughta friend, a very dear friend,
with me and I describe this inthe book.
I brought a very dear friendwith me who is also a writer and
a thinker and basically we wereon a writing retreat and our
wives had given us theirblessing to take off and we were
(37:40):
.
He was on one floor of thehouse and I was on another floor
of the house and we wrote for13 or 14 hours a day and I sort
of was wrapping up my philosophythat I had espoused in the book
.
And he looked at me and he saidyou know, society has been in a
(38:00):
hunting and gathering mindsetsince we have existed.
We have been in a valueextraction mindset and the
leaders of the future will bethinking about value creation
and they will shift from a valueextraction mindset to a value
creation mindset.
(38:21):
And this is one of my bestfriends, brock, and he was
essentially saying what he hadjust heard me describe in great
detail, but it so encapsulatedeverything that I think we need
to be focused on in ourleadership, everything that we
need to be focused on, on whatit is that we're creating, the
(38:42):
ideas we're trying to mobilize,the thoughts that we are trying
to espouse, the learnings, thediscoveries, the reconciliations
that we're trying to unfold,the conflicts that we are trying
to deescalate trying to unfoldthe conflicts that we are trying
to deescalate and the problemswe're trying to solve.
If we think about valuecreation instead of value
extraction, what can I get outof this?
(39:02):
What can I take out of this?
You're still going to getsomething.
Again, this is not beingaltruistic, it's being strategic
.
It's going the way that I getwhat I need is I give what I
want, and if I give value, I'mgoing to get it back.
But someone's got to go first.
And I think that recognizingthat that is not altruistic,
(39:25):
that is not being a doormat,that is not forfeiting our
interests and our needs, it'srecognizing the way the
ecosystem of value works issomeone goes first and when you
go first, you begin to kick offthat cycle, that virtuous cycle
of generativity, and I thinkthat it was that conversation
(39:48):
that really it put a casingaround the sausage of what it is
that I've been describing.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
That sounds like it was an amazing writing trip.
It's great that your wives wereable to say, yeah, go do your
thing.
My wife won't let me leave forfour hours.
She's like honey, get your buttback home right now.
She's like honey, get your buttback home right now.
But no, steve before we close.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Where can listeners connect with you?
Learn more about your brands,learn more about your framework?
Or pick up a copy of the UrgentRecovery of Hospitality.
Thank you for that.
You can get the book anywherebooks are sold Amazon.
Wherever you buy your books, Ithink the easiest way for people
to look at my content wouldjust be stevefortunatocom.
You can contact me via thatwebsite.
That website will take you toyou know the different brands,
to room 40, which is ourcatering company, etc.
(40:49):
But probably the easiest way isto just go to stevefortunatocom
.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Excellent, and we will definitely put that in the
show notes, but probably theeasiest way is to just go to
SteveFortunatocom.
Excellent, and we willdefinitely put that in the show
notes.
Steve, thank you for pulling upa seat at the leadership table.
Your heart for restoring truehospitality and leading through
generosity.
It's something we all need tobe reminded of every single day
To our listeners.
(41:13):
Thanks for also pulling up aseat with us today.
If you're building a peoplefirst brand and this episode
sparked something for you,subscribe and share it with
anotherasonebrookscom and learnabout our weekly coaching circle
at aimedrivescalecom.
(41:39):
Until next time, keep leadingwith clarity, with consistency
and with care.
And remember manage, lead,coach, repeat.
Thank you, have a great day.
Welcome to the Leadership Table, where we dive
into conversations that helphospitality leaders scale
smarter and lead stronger.
I'm your host, jason E Brooks,and today I'm joined by Steve
Fortunato, founder ofHospitality Collaborative and
the author of the UrgentRecovery of Hospitality.
(00:27):
Steve's work is a powerfulreminder that hospitality is
more than service.
It's a virtuous act, so let'sget into it.
Steve, welcome to theleadership table.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
How's it been?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
going.
It's been going really well.
It's been going really well.
It's been an exciting time.
It's been fun.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Good stuff, good stuff.
You are in the SouthernCalifornia area where it's
always sunny, never rainy.
Is that actually true?
Or is that just some cool 90sR&B song of?
It Never Rains in SouthernCalifornia.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I love that song.
I love that song.
You just dated yourself.
I just felt completely in goodcompany.
It's sunny most of the time,man, really.
Yeah, currently I'm actually inMontana and it is beautiful and
there's trees everywhere andit's a little more temperate.
(01:28):
Southern California can get tothe 90s in March, so it's nice
to be on a trip.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You not only travel in life, but you've also
traveled within your career.
You know your journey begunbusing tables at 15 to building
out hospitality collaborative.
That is incredible.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
What foundational experiences shaped your
leadership approach early on.
I would say one of the earliestfoundational experiences would
be my childhood, just growing upin a hosting home and growing
up with an attention to detailand seeing how details set the
table and it sort of provided acontainer for the experience.
(02:28):
Simultaneously, I would say Icouldn't name this.
But a second foundationalexperience would be the
dissatisfaction with what washappening at the table, feeling
like we have gone to theselengths and I feel like this
should feel more comfortable.
(02:48):
I feel like conversation shouldbe more engaging or more fun.
That would be a secondexperience.
I think the third experience wasjust cannonballing into the
restaurant world and into thehospitality world, as you said,
as a very young person.
I was 14 and 15 when I firststarted working in restaurants
(03:09):
and I was by far the youngestguy on the totem pole.
I was working with post-collegestudents and there was a
recognition from the managementthat for a teenager, this kid
has intuitive instincts around atable and I think that was a
foundational experience,recognizing a comfortability and
(03:31):
a familiarity with guestssitting at a table, with serving
, with clearing, with talkingabout food, with reading
intuitively what was happeningat a table.
So those were some earlyexperiences.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Now you said hosting home.
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
What I mean by that is that my parents were often
inviting people over to stay inour home or to come over for a
meal, and my mom would prepare ameal and what that looked like
was sort of elaborate meals withrecipes.
At the time she read GourmetMagazine and so she would read
(04:13):
this elaborate recipe and she'dbe cooking for a while, and I
grew up with seasonal dishes, sowe had a set of dishes for each
season and then we had thechina cabinet that we'd bring
the you know the fine china outof which was don't get me wrong,
that was my home.
I also grew up a surfer rompingaround in the Redwoods, so I
(04:37):
was.
There was definitely a someparadox to my early years to my
early years.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You know it's great that you are on the right
podcast with the leadershiptable, and your table did
revolve a lot of people from alot of different walks of life.
Not only that, but then, onceyou got into the business, you
were also understanding a verydifferent view of what that
table is.
How do you think that thatshaped you getting into building
(05:15):
brands and reflecting yourvalues?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I would describe it as convergence.
Hmm, I would describe it asconvergence, I think, often
(05:43):
early Jason, how do I get toTennessee?
And you said, well, youdefinitely don't go to Oregon,
you really don't want to go toOregon.
I get it, but how do I get toTennessee?
How do I accomplish where Iwant to go?
And so once reaction and sortof anti gets out of you, then
(06:04):
you have to set your North Star.
So that was certainly acomponent, was getting really
clear on what I didn't want todo, but I think, simultaneously
feeling like in my early yearsthere was attention to detail
but we missed the forest for thetrees and and the intention had
come a distant second to theattention of detail.
(06:40):
Something has entered the worldof hospitality the experience of
our gatherings.
That is not the highest goal ofwhy we're gathering, which is
attention around this restaurant, attention around this chef,
attention around the design.
All of those things are meantto serve what I believe is a
(07:00):
higher purpose, which is what ishappening amongst us
relationally and collectivelyand energetically, as we sit and
eat together and experiencebeauty and then try to reflect
that beauty.
So that was sort of the secondthing that shaped my approach.
And then I think the thirdthing was being really inspired
as an entrepreneur by brandsthat were disrupting questions
(07:22):
that they were asking why do wehave to do it that way?
What if we did it that way?
What if we did it this way?
And studying the lives and thebusiness trajectories and the
work cultures of some of thosecompanies really inspired me.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
So I think all of those things sort of converged
to begin to shape how Iapproached what I was building
of converge to begin to shapehow I approached what I was
building, even as you say that,when I of course did my research
on Room 40 and pharmacy bar andkitchen.
It is a very different type ofgathering space, a different
(08:00):
type of catering approach, evendown to the skills put into the
seating and the tables.
How did you?
You just explained that truly.
But that approach in buildingbrands is it common?
Do you think that it reallyfills the void of what you saw
(08:26):
from your past, or what you sawthat customers guessed not just
customers guessed needed inorder to see that intentionality
in where they were eating, whythey were eating there and then
the conversations that they'rehaving at that table?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
that they're having at that table.
Yeah, I want to be careful tonot represent this over.
Clear picture of the future.
Intention and path aresometimes two different things.
You can set your intention, butthen the reality path sets in.
You know, you can set yourintention to be a great fighter
(09:06):
and, as Mike Tyson said,everybody's got a plan until
they get hit in the mouth.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Until they get hit in the mouth.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah.
So I think that there was someintention set and, like all
entrepreneurs, you kind of failforward and you hit some brick
walls and you experience theemotion of that and the whatever
emotion you're having, theincredulity, the sense of
failure, the confusion, thinkingI thought I saw where we were
(09:35):
headed.
But invariably, if you letthose brick walls actually begin
to shape your path, you kind ofstumble in to what your path is
meant to be and there's sort ofan aha.
And that's really what happenedfor me is that I had this
intention of what I wanted toaccomplish.
I had some really good adviceand someone came and said start
(10:00):
doing some gatherings, do itoutside of the restaurant.
I worked in a white tableclothrestaurant and at the time the
lines around white tableclothand fine dining were drawn very
clearly.
Pop-ups were not yet a movementyet and so I started doing
these gatherings, that sort ofjuxtaposed fine dining and
unorthodox spaces and museumsand galleries and private
(10:23):
estates, talking about thisrestaurant that I was going to
open called Room 40.
And the brick walls came inforce as I was sending LOI after
LOI after LOI to theselandlords trying to get a
restaurant lease, and I couldnot get a restaurant lease,
which I found confusing becauserestaurants open and close in LA
all the time and people werecoming to these dinners that I
(10:47):
was doing saying, man, I wish wehad this as a catering event.
Man, I wish you could havecatered my wife wedding, I wish
you could have catered my 40th.
But you know you're not doingthat.
You're opening a fancyrestaurant and I kind of read
the writing on the wall as Ispoke about earlier disruption,
blue ocean thinking, which iseveryone's doing all these ideas
(11:09):
very similarly and it's turnedinto a red ocean.
There's a great big blue oceanout there.
What could we try, what if?
And I just had a real change ofperspective and paradigm and I
realized catering is a follower.
In the hospitality space,restaurants are the leader and
that's kind of tragically ironicbecause you go to these
(11:30):
phenomenal restaurants and it'sjust thursday night but on a
once in a lifetime, once in adecade event, you kind of go.
It wasn't bad for catering,which is ironic because you're
never going to experience thisevent Again.
Catering should be mind-blowing.
And that's when I kind of had achange of perspective and I
(11:51):
said you know what?
What if there was an experienceof catering that really closed
that gap between the greatrestaurant experience and the
catered format, which is reallyhard for lots of reasons
Obviously, the logisticalreasons, the lack of a
commercial kitchen on some ofthe event spaces that you go to,
one of the greatest problemsworking with an itinerant staff
(12:14):
it's a gig-based worker economy.
So you have this grand canyon ofinvestment between the client
and the front line.
The client has never been thisinvested in the event.
You know if you're spending$1,000 or $300 at a great
restaurant experience, you'respending $30,000 at, you know, a
(12:35):
catered event.
So you've never been soinvested as a client and as a
frontline worker server,bartender you might work for 10
different catering companies andthis is just one more event on
your gig roster.
So how do you close that gapand really provide that great
experience of service?
(12:55):
How do you execute six coursesin a vineyard up on a mountain?
How do you continue to getcatering events in the space
that you want to cater whencatering, especially in Southern
California, is cyclical?
So there was a lot ofchallenges in embracing that as
the world I wanted to get in,but 18 years later I'm really
(13:19):
glad I did.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
And it sounds like you're doing very well.
Now I actually work with theOff-Premise Growth Academy with
Earl Dardick, and I didn't evenknow we were going to really get
this deep into the cateringworld is levitating miles above
what most people picturecatering as.
(13:42):
But the way that you justdefined it, it's very specific.
In you go to a nice restaurant,a really nice one, and, yes,
it's just another Thursday, andhow catering should be is a once
(14:04):
in a lifetime event.
That's how we should treat itwithin the execution as well.
I think you said that soelegantly, so you know.
I also want to get into yourbook.
Your book frames hospitality asa virtuous act, similar to how
(14:26):
you view catering as well, youknow, one that rebuilds
communities.
What sparked you to write theUrgent Recover of Hospitality
and what's the core message youhope leaders take away?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
What sparked me was recognizing in myself an inner
conflict.
I was trying to build thiscompany that was mission driven,
that was disruptive, and I wastrying to build this company
that was mission driven, thatwas disruptive.
And companies that aredisruptive for a good cause they
often get noticed and itcreates this sense of inertia.
(15:08):
Where they've set what it isthat they want to do, they start
doing it, they get noticed,they're able to accomplish more
good, they're able to increasetheir impact, and it felt like
that kind of recognition waseluding me and I was really
(15:28):
frustrated by that.
I had been building my companyand I had been working hard to
create a great culture and agreat product and it felt like
the recognition and the valuethat I was looking for as an
entrepreneur, as a founder, as aservice provider, as a you know
, we call ourselves momentarchitects as a moment architect
(15:48):
, it felt like that was eludingme and I was frustrated.
And I had this moment ofclarity where I realized I'm
looking for recognition, I'mlooking for our company to be
valued in an industry that isall about, or should be all
(16:11):
about, recognizing others andvaluing others.
And I realized that as Iidentified that dilemma inside
of me.
I began to see that dilemmainside of me, I began to see
that dilemma outside of me and Ibegan to file a lot of my
experiences in hospitality intwo vastly different categories.
Some of them just felt sowelcoming and they brought
(16:36):
something out in me by way ofgratitude and generosity that I
just wanted to return to theprovider and it just created
this virtuous cycle, this senseof generativity where we had a
great conversation or a memorywas made.
Then there were these otherexperiences where I felt like I
(16:56):
was a kid in a playground tryingto get in the game and there
was a bouncer checking to see ifI qualified and I wanted to
look at them and say you know,I'm the customer right.
And I identified what is thethrough line in these two vastly
(17:18):
different experiences withinthe same industry.
Ah, one of these experiences islooking to get value, is
looking to be recognized for thevalue they bring for their
craftsmanship, and one of themis looking to value others and
recognize others.
And I saw that, that conflictthat I had identified in myself
(17:39):
looking to be valued, proving myvalue, looking for validation,
for recognition, in a momentthat should be about recognizing
others, valuing others.
I recognized that dilemma andthat paradox within my industry.
And then I looked beyond myindustry and I recognized it and
(18:00):
identified it everywhere,recognized it and identified it
everywhere.
And just our interactions ashumans.
What happens when we whether itis an interaction with a fellow
parent on the PTA community, ora spouse or an employee or
someone that is checking you inon an airplane, whatever level
(18:21):
of interaction we're having withpeople when both parties are
looking to be valued, when bothparties are looking to be
recognized, it breaks the sauce.
But when someone goes I'm goingto go first.
It's very similar to breathing,jason.
If I want to get that nextbreath that is critical for my
(18:43):
existence, I have to give thebreath that I have away.
And when I give that breathaway, I make space to take that
other breath.
And that is how life happens,that is how generativity happens
, that is the ecology of value,of existence.
And so I know that sounds wildlyesoteric, but as I played this
(19:11):
thing, you know, as I sort ofreverse engineered, recognizing
this dilemma in me going, I'mtrying to be valued and in these
moments I should actually bevaluing others.
I'm trying to be recognized andin these moments I should be
recognizing others.
I'm trying to be celebrated formy craft and instead I should
be leveraging my craft tocelebrate others.
(19:32):
I recognized this dilemma andthe circles that I saw this
dilemma existing in just gotwider and wider and wider, and
that is what really sparked thisdesire to write this book, not
from a place of.
I have realized this, I havemastered this, and now let me
(19:55):
bring the pearls that I've minedto everybody else.
More like, oh my God, thistension so exists inside of me
and I'm discovering ways that Ican reset my North Star and it's
creating something different,energetically with me and my
(20:15):
people with me and myrelationships with me and my
clients.
So it was really from thisplace of enthusiasm and
excitement that I wanted to sayhere's some things I'm
discovering that are helping me.
I'd love to share it.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
What are some ways that our listeners, business
owners, operators, executiveshow can they take this virtuous
cycle and begin viewing guestexperience differently, or team
development differently, withintheir four walls or within their
(20:52):
organization?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, there is a framework that I unfold in the
second part of the book, but Ithink the very first thing is
just recognizing it.
I think that this movement fromlooking for recognition what I
call the vicious cycle thismovement from the vicious cycle
to the virtuous cycle, it's nota one and done transaction.
(21:17):
There's no snake oil formulathat's going to permanently
transform you into operating onthe virtuous cycle.
I think it's just noticing.
It's noticing what's happeninginside of ourselves first and
that's really what EQ is is it'srecognizing the impact of us on
(21:37):
others.
And I think that in noticingthese cycles, the first thing we
do is we recognize ourintentions.
What am I trying to get out ofthis moment?
What do I want out of thisinteraction?
And I think then, once we'venoticed that we talk about four
things that leaders can do tobegin to create more of these
(21:59):
virtuous cycles and it's afour-part framework, virtuous
cycles.
And it's a four-part framework,it starts with speaking the
good, honoring those you serve,earning the respect of others as
opposed to expecting it andthen celebrating and improving.
Sometimes we have thesecultures of celebration and it's
just enthusiasm andeverything's great.
Other times we have theseenvironments that are just
(22:20):
unrelenting in their push forgrowth.
I feel wisdom is found inparadox.
So speaking the good words havepower.
What you focus on grows, and Ithink the very first thing
leaders need to do is they needto speak the good in themselves.
Oftentimes leaders are reallyreally hard on themselves, but
(22:41):
that is an economy if you'reexisting in, even if you are
trying to edit your language tothose that you lead and those
that you follow.
Inside there's an internalcritic and that sense of
criticism is going to leak outin your leadership and I believe
that we, as hosts, can't makepeople feel at home until we're
(23:03):
at home with ourselves.
So the way the first thing wedo is we just start to speak the
good inside of us.
We just start to notice thegood.
Because we are over the longtail, we are encouraged into
growth.
There is certainly a shortseason, maybe for one
accomplishment, one accolade,one vista that we're trying to
(23:24):
climb, that driving voice mightget us there short term.
But if we're looking at growthas a long-tail game, nobody is
berated into growth.
If you think of a little kidwhen they're learning how to
walk or learning how to dosomething new, the parents are
around jumping up and downsaying you're doing it, you're
doing it, keep going.
The parents are around jumpingup and down saying you're doing
(23:45):
it, you're doing it, keep going.
And, as you know, as a host ofleaders and as a leader yourself
, leadership is very lonely.
It's a very difficult journeyto quantify for those around you
, and so it really starts withspeaking the good in yourself.
Then we talk about speaking thegood in your company, your
(24:07):
colleagues, your clients.
Oftentimes there's a tendencyto get loose-lipped with our
exasperation with clients, sortof that reaction from the
customer is always right,knowing the customer is not
always right, but we can getexasperated with these clients.
And I think that when we beginto speak the good toward our
(24:28):
clients' intentions, ourcolleagues' intentions, our
company's intentions, and wedon't fall for that us against
the man thing, but we actuallygo, what's the good that I can
speak?
That starts the cycle beginningto turn, and I won't go through
the whole framework, but thereare practical, there's
(24:50):
principles, and then there'spractices that I talk about in
the book.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Now, steve, I love your framework.
Whenever you and I spoke a fewweeks ago, we talked through
both of our frameworks orapproaches to what we coach, to
our mantra, to how we build andlive, because it's not just a
(25:16):
business, it's how we view life,and your framework reminds me
of two of my frameworks.
Of course, one is aim drive,scale, and that drive phase is
when generosity fuelsaccountability and teams move
(25:37):
from being reactive to proactivein their leadership, because,
even though it is a team underor working for a individual
there, they they are still beingproactive within their own
leadership as well.
Leadership isn't just a tag fora boss, it is how you view and
(26:00):
and approach things.
How you view and approachthings.
One of my other frameworks isleading with the right mindset,
and one of the core questionsthat I think whenever leaders
are able to have the rightmindset going into situations,
is, by asking a very simplequestion of what does this
(26:24):
situation need from me, or whatdoes this person need from me,
and giving that pause andthinking through what does this
situation need from me or of me,you're able to, more so, lead
with a.
Does it need structure?
Does it need vision?
(26:44):
Does it need growth, does thisperson need growth?
But taking that pause to beable to understand where you're
currently at, what the goal isfor this situation, to help move
to success for that environment, person or situation, that's
what helps to give that rightmindset.
(27:06):
So, as you speak through yourframeworks, it also helps me or
reminds me thinking through mine, with the aim, drive, scale and
also with the leading, with theright mindset, which is
managing versus leading, versuscoaching.
Now, a lot of what we teachhelps to build culture within
(27:28):
individuals, also within brands,and building culture across
multiple brands is no small feat.
How do you instill leadershipand accountability inside your
teams while still keeping theheart of hospitality at the
center?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I've learned the power of leading small moment by
small moment, small interactionby small interaction.
I think the concept ofprotracted periods of silence,
followed by a quarterly review,followed by a quarterly review,
(28:09):
that model, I think, is becomingmore and more antiquated for
people to feel seen, for peopleto feel guided, for people to
experience what you have triedto set as your culture.
So how have I done it?
I do it one small moment at atime, whether that be a specific
check-in about you knowsomeone's life.
(28:30):
Hey, how was your weekend?
How was your daughter'sgraduation?
I know you were celebratingyour mom's birthday.
How did that go?
Noticing something that they'redoing, catching them doing
something right, not making itthis formal presentation, not
making it a sit down, but sayingsomething more specific than
you know good job, which isobviously something I'm sure
(28:51):
you've heard.
You know good job is notspecific.
So, giving, we all need to hearan attaboy, attagirl.
We all need to feel like we'redoing, we're on the right track.
And then, secondarily, when itcomes to accountability, I think
accountability starts withclear expectations.
One of the things that leadersoften presume is that they're
(29:13):
being heard, and so one of mysmall practices is, after I
communicate, I say what is itthat you heard?
And after someone elsecommunicates to me, I say this
is what I hear you saying.
Did I get that right?
(29:33):
And giving people theopportunity to clarify, because
I think that feeling seen andfeeling heard are two
prerequisites to people feelingengaged, people feeling part of
your culture, people wanting tofollow your leadership, people
feeling safe and trusted.
So we could assume, based onsomeone's body language or based
(29:58):
on their eye contact, that theyare feeling seen and they are
feeling heard.
But I think it requires acheck-in.
Did I hear what it was that youwere needing me to hear?
How are you feeling after thisinteraction?
Did you get what you needed?
Or, if I'm the onecommunicating, what is it that
you hear me saying?
(30:19):
And oftentimes they'll repeatsomething back which was not at
all what you were saying, and itgives you the opportunity to
clarify and say no, I'm notsaying that, here's what I
really want you to hear, andtake a second pass at it.
So those are small littlepractices.
They're not grand philosophies,they're not esoteric treasures.
(30:43):
They're just little ways that,day in and day out, we begin to
ask questions, clarify, setexpectations, mirror what we
heard, ask other people tomirror what they heard.
Check in with them.
On a personal note, those arethe types of things that we do
that help imbue culture and holdpeople accountable.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Every single leader listening and watching right now
can take today and apply todaythat clarification, that
verification of how you're beingheard, if you're being heard
and also what you're hearing aswell.
That can close the window on somuch confusion within not just
(31:50):
our business life but ourpersonal life as well.
Now I know I've I have had youhostage for almost 30 minutes
now, so we are going to closewith some signature questions
that I ask everyone that comesto the leadership table,
questions that I ask everyonethat comes to the leadership
table.
If you had a seat at aleadership roundtable with three
others, living or historicalwho would you choose and why?
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Oh man, jason, that's a tough question for lifelong
learners.
I see your bookshelf you canimagine mine's packed with the
lives of leaders that have soinspired me.
I am really inspired by YvonneSchuenard culture and great
(32:42):
impact on the planet on a causegreater than themselves.
Even if you might not identifywith the cause that he has
picked as his own, there is analignment that he has worked
into the fabric of his company,where his products are, like I
said, they're very high quality.
(33:02):
Nobody would ever second guessthe quality of Patagonia and
they are an adventurer's or anature person's product.
It's not a product for peoplethat aspire to nature but don't
want to pay for the higherquality, and his culture is
filled with people that arepassionate about what he's
(33:24):
passionate about, and his impactand what he does with his
profits goes beyond his owninterests.
I find that very inspiring.
I find the leadership of PeteCarroll very inspiring.
I'm a football fan.
I've been a Seahawks fan.
I've been struggling with whatto do now that he's the coach of
(33:45):
the Raiders.
But whether or not you are afootball fan, one of the things
that Pete Carroll doubled downon was that you could draw out
excellence, the highest level ofexcellence from your team while
(34:07):
being an encourager and anaffirmer of them, and that is in
no way to say there's anabsence of accountability.
People get cut from the teamleft and right, people get
benched, people get disciplined,but he doubled down on the way
to actually draw sustained, longterm excellence while
(34:27):
simultaneously building a greatculture.
I'm going to do that throughaffirming people, by noticing
the good and also taking aholistic view of leadership.
You know, pete Carroll was thefirst NFL coach to invite Brene
Brown into the locker room andmost people would not think of
you know someone like BreneBrown?
(34:48):
Now they would, but at the time, brene Brown coming into an NFL
team room was a jarringjuxtaposition and I just really
admire his leadership.
I think Joe of Trader Joe's youknow, in looking at how he was
incredibly savvy, how, again, hewas a disruptor, he didn't look
(35:13):
at the way that the groceryexperience happened and go how
can we do it?
The same, but just a little bitdifferent?
You know, he literally had afraction of the number of SKUs
that most grocery stores had,which was just.
It defied logic.
Well, if it's a grocery store,you need to have 12 different
(35:35):
types of X, and you know to thisday, trader Joe's.
You know, if you go to acertain grocery store and you
say do you have tahini paste,they'll say I don't know.
And if you go to other grocerystores and you say, do you have
tahini paste?
They'll say check out five.
If you go to Trader Joe's andyou say, do you have tahini
(35:57):
paste?
They'll say come with me.
And the way that that visionhas, for decades, worked itself
out into his front line, wherehere you have an experience of
baggers, checkers, stalkers, andthey feel happy to be at their
job, even amid what is happeningin our current society with how
(36:21):
people feel about work and howpeople show up for work.
You walk into Trader Joe's andit's a different experience.
How did he do that?
That inspires me and I wouldlove to just sit down with those
three leaders and ask a couplequestions and then shut up.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Well, I am absolutely jealous of your roundtable
leadership board members.
Those three are amazing.
So now for the final questionCan you share a single
conversation?
I know you've had lots ofconversations throughout your
journey and you're still havingthem to this day, but can you
(37:02):
share a single conversationmaybe unexpected that shifted
how you lead, hire or servetoday?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
serve.
Today I'm actually sitting inthe place where I wrote a lot of
the book.
I'm up in Montana and I broughta friend, a very dear friend,
with me and I describe this inthe book.
I brought a very dear friendwith me who is also a writer and
a thinker and basically we wereon a writing retreat and our
wives had given us theirblessing to take off and we were
(37:40):
.
He was on one floor of thehouse and I was on another floor
of the house and we wrote for13 or 14 hours a day and I sort
of was wrapping up my philosophythat I had espoused in the book
.
And he looked at me and he saidyou know, society has been in a
(38:00):
hunting and gathering mindsetsince we have existed.
We have been in a valueextraction mindset and the
leaders of the future will bethinking about value creation
and they will shift from a valueextraction mindset to a value
creation mindset.
(38:21):
And this is one of my bestfriends, brock, and he was
essentially saying what he hadjust heard me describe in great
detail, but it so encapsulatedeverything that I think we need
to be focused on in ourleadership, everything that we
need to be focused on, on whatit is that we're creating, the
(38:42):
ideas we're trying to mobilize,the thoughts that we are trying
to espouse, the learnings, thediscoveries, the reconciliations
that we're trying to unfold,the conflicts that we are trying
to deescalate trying to unfoldthe conflicts that we are trying
to deescalate and the problemswe're trying to solve.
If we think about valuecreation instead of value
extraction, what can I get outof this?
(39:02):
What can I take out of this?
You're still going to getsomething.
Again, this is not beingaltruistic, it's being strategic
.
It's going the way that I getwhat I need is I give what I
want, and if I give value, I'mgoing to get it back.
But someone's got to go first.
And I think that recognizingthat that is not altruistic,
(39:25):
that is not being a doormat,that is not forfeiting our
interests and our needs, it'srecognizing the way the
ecosystem of value works issomeone goes first and when you
go first, you begin to kick offthat cycle, that virtuous cycle
of generativity, and I thinkthat it was that conversation
(39:48):
that really it put a casingaround the sausage of what it is
that I've been describing.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
That sounds like it was an amazing writing trip.
It's great that your wives wereable to say, yeah, go do your
thing.
My wife won't let me leave forfour hours.
She's like honey, get your buttback home right now.
She's like honey, get your buttback home right now.
But no, steve before we close.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Where can listeners connect with you?
Learn more about your brands,learn more about your framework?
Or pick up a copy of the UrgentRecovery of Hospitality.
Thank you for that.
You can get the book anywherebooks are sold Amazon.
Wherever you buy your books, Ithink the easiest way for people
to look at my content wouldjust be stevefortunatocom.
You can contact me via thatwebsite.
That website will take you toyou know the different brands,
to room 40, which is ourcatering company, etc.
(40:49):
But probably the easiest way isto just go to stevefortunatocom
.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Excellent, and we will definitely put that in the
show notes, but probably theeasiest way is to just go to
SteveFortunatocom.
Excellent, and we willdefinitely put that in the show
notes.
Steve, thank you for pulling upa seat at the leadership table.
Your heart for restoring truehospitality and leading through
generosity.
It's something we all need tobe reminded of every single day
To our listeners.
(41:13):
Thanks for also pulling up aseat with us today.
If you're building a peoplefirst brand and this episode
sparked something for you,subscribe and share it with
anotherasonebrookscom and learnabout our weekly coaching circle
at aimedrivescalecom.
(41:39):
Until next time, keep leadingwith clarity, with consistency
and with care.
And remember manage, lead,coach, repeat.
Thank you, have a great day.
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