September 25, 2025 • 56 mins
Jason Berkowitz, Founder & CEO of Arrow Up Training, joins Jason E. Brooks on The Leadership Table to share how compliance and safety training can do more than just “check the box”—it can actually shape culture, lower turnover, and strengthen leadership.
With 50+ restaurant openings under his belt and leadership roles at Umami Burger, Tocaya Organica, and The Madera Group, Jason has seen firsthand how proper training impacts both employees and guests.
In this episode, Jason and Jason discuss:
- ✅ Why onboarding sets the tone from day one
- ✅ How supervisors bridge expectations and execution
- ✅ Making compliance engaging (yes, even fun)
- ✅ The role of empathy and storytelling in coaching
- ✅ Jason’s new initiative We Arrow Up—free restaurant essentials training nationwide
If you lead people—whether in hospitality or beyond—you’ll walk away with practical strategies to improve clarity, accountability, and culture in your organization.
🔗 Connect with Jason Berkowitz:
Website: https://arrowuptraining.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasondberkowitz/
Instagram: @arrow_up_training | Twitter/X: @jdberko
📚 Connect with Jason E. Brooks:
Books & Resources: https://jasonebrooks.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonebrooks/
Instagram: @jasonebrooks
🎧 Subscribe to The Leadership Table for more conversations that inspire, lead, and elevate.
#Leadership #RestaurantTraining #Hospitality #Culture #ArrowUpTraining
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Leadership Table, where
conversations inspire, lead andelevate.
I'm your host, jason E Brooks,and today I'm joined by Jason
Berkowitz, hospitality veteranand founder of Arrow Up Training
.
Jason has opened more than 50restaurants, led operations at
major brands and now works toturn compliance and safety
(00:26):
training into culture, buildingexperiences that stick.
We'll talk about why onboardingsets the tone from day one, how
supervisors bridge expectationsand execution, and Jason's
vision for we Arrow Up a freeessentials training platform for
restaurants nationwide.
Let's dive in.
(00:46):
You know I like to ask apersonal question, just so the
listeners get to know the personyou know.
So quick, rapid fire Book,podcast or playlist that's been
in your rotation lately.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So here's how I work with books.
At nighttime I try to not readanything that's going to get my
brain going, because then Ican't sleep.
So nighttime are for fiction,nonfiction, biographies, fun
books.
I started the Harry Potterseries, not even restarted.
(01:25):
I've seen the movies.
I'm going back to the books,which is great for daytime books
.
I have started audio books,which is somewhat new to me, and
I'm on this train right now.
Maybe you'll audio, you knowyou'll VO yours at some point.
Maybe it's coming out, maybenot, doesn't need to happen, but
(01:48):
to me I love that while sort ofworking out or doing something.
So a recent book is Abundance.
Ezra Klein's one of theco-writers of it.
I made it through the wholething.
I appreciate its perspective,which is saying that the
Democratic Party used to be aparty of building.
It was a party of making thingswhich led to economic prosperity
(02:10):
and the middle class and alongthe way, due to lack of trust
with somewhat of the government,started to put up a lot of
regulation and barriers andlawsuits and stopped building
things.
And if we want to actually havea world of abundance abundant
energy, abundant, you know,health care, things like that
that matters then the DemocraticParty for itself needs to look
(02:33):
and say at what cost you know,is all of these death by a
thousand paper cuts?
That matters to me very much inthe restaurant business out
here in Los Angeles, where I'm afounding member of the
Independent HospitalityCoalition, because we're working
diligently to remove a lot ofthe red tape that we deal with
(02:54):
when opening up restaurants inCalifornia, whether it be
permitting, costs, delays,mismanagement, you know.
So I like that book and I'mfiguring out how to take that
down to a level of a fairly bluestate, because to me the heart
of community is small business.
So that is a book that I'verecently just finished.
(03:17):
I'm starting a new one and I'mdigging the audio books and I
like it during the daytime andgetting my brain going.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I was just about to say you would know more than
just about anyone about thatabundance mindset and the
negative kickback that hashappened from the shift of what
that party used to be and whatit shifted towards.
And you have front row seats toseeing that in California.
(03:49):
So, yes, that makes sense.
All right, not to get toopolitical.
But next question Best concertlast five years, best concert
you've been to and I know thatyou're a musician so you have
you always want to give praise.
At the same time you'recritical.
Best concert last five years.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I went to the Grateful Dead at the Sphere and
that was really awesome.
And that's aging myself andthat's doing everything, but it
was my birthday, it was thisyear.
Yeah, it was just such a funexperience because even it
begins before you even enter thesphere.
If you go to the sphere for anyreason, see a show, I love
entering through for any futureshows.
(04:31):
To go enter through the walkwaycoming from I think it's a
Venetian or the Palazzo Hotel,whether you stay there or not,
go have a bite to eat, a drinkor whatnot.
As you're walking over, you'rewalking over with everybody and
the culture of the community, ofwhatever the band and the vibe
is.
So for that it was great,because you had multiple
(04:51):
generations of people grandkids,grandparents, kids everybody
together, whether they'rerocking their tie dye or their
skull and steal your face ordancing bears.
There was just this feeling ofjoy that was in the air and
there was this moment feeling ofjoy that was in the air.
And, um, there was this momentin the show.
Right before the show, somebodyspilled something on the steps
(05:12):
and it must have been bad.
I couldn't really see but oneof the attendants who worked
there uh, you know, one of thethe team members cleaned it up
and apparently had like it wasthis big spill and did this
thorough job.
And then, once they finishedaround them, everyone gave them
an applause.
I was like man, this is, and itwas this big spill and did this
thorough job.
And then, once they finishedaround them, everyone gave him
an applause.
I was like this is and it was asincere one, it was sincere
appreciation, it was like it'slike, first off, how cool is
(05:35):
that?
Right, that this person waslike that's cool, thank you.
Secondly, that a thorough jobwas done, or that would be first
for safety, because if you slipon these steps, it is no bueno,
yeah.
But thirdly, I was like man, Idig this, this group of people,
this truly appreciative, youknow, some would say maybe soft
in some areas but big hearted inothers.
(05:56):
I just loved that moment.
And then the band came on, itcrushed it and the visuals and
the experience and this, youknow, multidimensional thing.
And so when we think aboutrestaurants, what is the all
encompassing experience at theend of the day?
It's how you feel.
Sometimes it's just the food,the music, right, if you
transfer it over.
What's the product that you'recommunicating?
(06:17):
But then can you take itfurther and you know what's the
full experience and how's theemotion.
So, tying it back to this theme, that was just powerful, you
know.
Then I went to a concert wheresomebody was on an acoustic
guitar and that was powerful.
It's what you do with the toolsyou have.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You know.
Speaking of tools, you havewent through a whole tool chest
in your you know background, inyour resume.
You've opened 50 plusrestaurants.
You've held senior leadershiproles.
But out of all of that, whatare the things you learned from
opening restaurants, runningrestaurants, being as a leader
(06:59):
that inspired you to launch?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
arrow up training, though one very basic notion
that I learned years ago.
Everybody just needs to know,or wants to know, two things
what's my job and how am I doing?
And what's my job is in settingand training expectations.
(07:22):
So so you've documented whatgood looks like and you've
trained it in a way that landsand communicates.
The second one is how am Idoing and how am I doing?
Is in feedback, any sort offeedback?
It could be a checklist thatchecks off, that says this was
what was expected, this wascompleted.
It could be a more formalizedreview, it could be little
(07:44):
flybys just want to let you know.
You crushed it last night,things like that.
And when I was opening uprestaurants or when I was coming
in as a no matter what myposition was, as long as I was
somewhat above store authority,up to from director of service,
up to chief operating officer, Iwould say you know, no one
(08:04):
talked to me for two weeks to 30days because I'm just going to
go, put a full training programin place, because if I open up
my emails, even I'm done,because now I'm working on
what's urgent and if I'm workingon what's urgent, I can't focus
on what's important, and bydoing that I was going to
mitigate so many of the problemsthat were going to become
urgent and then at that point Isaid you know what, I can start
(08:29):
to systematize this and rollthis out as a bit of a blanket.
You know off the shelf toolkitfor restaurants to use, so that
they're not starting at zero,they're starting at one or two
or three or four right, and thenthey can fill in the gaps.
Oh, they're starting at one ortwo or three or four right, and
then they can fill in the gaps.
And you know, we'll get intohow we started and where we
moved.
But if there's any takeawaysfor any leader or anyone here
(08:51):
and I mean you're crushing whatyou're sharing with them and how
to give feedback and when togive feedback and all of that
are you answering these twoquestions for anybody who
reports to you or reports up oryou support?
If you aren't, go focus on thatimmediately.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
If you have emerging managers who need to grow into
confident leaders, or if you'repart of a nonprofit, a culinary
workforce program or a pro-starteducation foundation looking to
equip students and alumni withleadership skills.
That's exactly why we createdCoachUp.
It's a cohort-based programthat helps new leaders
(09:30):
communicate clearly, coach withconfidence and succeed in
leadership roles.
In just a few weeks, they'llhave the skills to thrive and
you'll see the difference inyour people.
Learn more at jasonebrookscomforward slash coach up.
Why is it that we seem to berevisiting the question of
(09:54):
training and how to train somuch?
It seems like we tend to haveone of those industries that
it's it's.
It is almost always a reset orpeople figuring out the how to
do it whether it's a new brandlaunching or whatever and
(10:15):
they're always trying to figureout how do I actually train
right and how, not just trainright?
How do we stop sucking, notjust train right?
How do we stop sucking?
And when I look at otherindustries, does it really
happen that often or is it thatI'm just not in those circles to
see that sucking that much?
Is it just me or have you seenit that that we keep coming back
(10:40):
to?
We need to do better attraining our people.
You you put together a verygreat tool that people are able
to really dig in and do it.
But why is it that that peoplestarting new in their business
need to answer that question ofhow do we stop sucking at
training?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I think it's a great question and I think I think
every industry struggles with it.
I think restaurants strugglewith it probably more for a few
reasons.
One is such high turnover,thinking about the cost centers
and how that's actuallyaffecting you in so many, you
know, holistic and unholisticways, and I think there's not
(11:22):
that many out of the boxsolutions that make it easy for
people to take, adapt and buildon.
So we're getting deep into SOPs, out-of-the-box, just here you
go.
Here's, even beyond training.
Here's your standard operatingprocedures, literally
out-of-the-box, ready to go, andthat 80% to 90% of what you
need is there.
You can fill in the gaps onyour recipes and stuff like that
which is bigger than the 10%,but I'm saying is all the other
(11:45):
stuff it's out of the box andit's ready to go.
So I think it's lack ofbandwidth.
I think it's a lot offirst-time owners that get into
the game and don't realize theydon't know what they don't know
and they're not listening tothese podcasts and they're not
absorbing, and so they'restarting a little too late and
behind the ball.
And then, once you're behindthe ball, you're putting out
(12:11):
fires and then at that momentyou are, once you get to the
point that you're focusing onwhat's urgent over what's
important and you're not doing abalance of it at some point,
then you're behind the ball.
And so that's one of thesolutions why we're coming in
saying look, here you go.
It's not everything you need,but it is so much of what you
need out of the gates.
Get going, let's get you moving, and then you figure out who
(12:34):
your rock stars are, becauseorganized people work for
organized environments, and thenthey'll help you fill in the
gaps for the other stuff.
So it's turnover, it's industry,it's new owners, it's lack of
resources out there, it's, it'sa lot of these things, and and
sometimes it's just in theeducation of, like you know,
owners will say people areterrible, they don't, they don't
(12:56):
get it.
Well, did you set them up forsuccess?
And fortunately that attracts alot of restaurant owners.
Restaurant owners, especiallysmall independents a lot of the
best are out of their mind andso they're so good at certain
things and not at others.
That's why, when I was aconsultant, I learned to have a
very thick skin and I would sayto them fire your bullets at me,
(13:19):
not any team members and let mefigure out how to communicate
them and translate that intoaction, because they're not
going to understand what you'retrying to solve and actually
what you think you want to solve.
Right now you're notcommunicating in the right way,
but I know what we need to solve.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Let's go to the opposite end of that spectrum,
so we just talk through thosethat hit the ground running and
don't think through theprocesses needed to actually get
training done, the right way tobe the most effective.
Let's look at the other end ofthat spectrum, that end of the
(13:57):
spectrum where the brand's beenaround since 1960.
There's a thousand locationsand they got that damn
compliance training back from1982.
And no one feels it, no onegets it.
They're just crying their eyesout Like please just let it stop
(14:18):
, stop the bleeding.
How do you make compliancetraining, especially something
as sexy as compliance?
How do you make it engaging andrelatable?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And we say come for the compliance day for the vibe.
Thanks for that setup, you knowor we used to say we make
sexual harassment training sexyand she's got to have a little
bit of fun with it Got to hit itright on the nose.
Just hit it right on the nose,man Right on the nose.
So thanks for that lob.
It's a good lob and a goodsetup with that.
Let me tell you a story thatcame to mind only this past week
(14:56):
and I didn't even think aboutit while we were building out
our anti-harassment training.
I remember when I was a new Ithink it was my first job as a
restaurant manager in a finedining restaurant and I was
front of house and the sous chefused to every morning love,
because I was the morningmanager.
I'm paying my dues at 6 amshowing up.
(15:18):
And the sous chef used to loveto come out every morning and
pull out his flip phone and showme just terrible, disgusting
images or short little videos orlittle things on it that was
just like just very chef driventerrible.
Some of that was absolutelyhilarious and you know I have a
(15:40):
high tolerance and some of itwas just I can't get the image
out of my brain.
Disgusting and and it was likehe, he didn't do it to make me
laugh so much, it was a powerplay and it was a you know this,
this power move and and this,this move to make me feel
awkward and that's what he wasgoing for.
I want to see how awkward I canmake you.
And I laughed because I neededhim to like me, because when the
(16:06):
back of house likes you, lifeis easier in the restaurant than
not, and I absolutely hate that.
And I've done a good job ofworking on that in any
restaurant that I was a leadoperator in and we're working on
that through moving the culture.
Now, that's not a story I told,but that's a story that we get
and understand and we have a lotof stories like this that we
(16:29):
captured on our training and sowe go back to.
How do you make it interesting?
You capture real stories ofmoments that we can all relate
to that are not the obvious quidpro quo.
You know, if you sleep with meI'll give you the better shifts,
because we all know that andyou've got to communicate that.
That ain't right.
But other things that are alittle bit of the gray area and
(16:52):
a little bit of the lines ofjust when we know like, oh my
God, that did happen to me andto me our training is modern
because we're telling realstories that people are talking
about.
We're folding it into GIFs andmemes and mixed media stew, you
know, I love it.
Somebody just took our trainingto see about bringing it on
(17:14):
board and they said it's like adocumentary.
You know, I feel like thistraining should be on Netflix
and I was like that's awesomeBecause we're capturing these
videos.
That's awesome's awesome, andthey signed and they're a big
company, um, and we and I and Iabsolutely love that.
And then they talked about how.
But then, all of a sudden,you're going into all these like
(17:34):
fun little interactions andstories and memes and gifts and
podcasts.
So that's how we do it, but why?
But why do I care about that?
For our training?
What am I looking to do?
Well, if you're in a state thatrequires it, then you need to
do it anyway.
So, as somebody said to mebefore we started, can you make
something a little less painful,please?
We went further, but whetheryou are or not in a place that
(17:59):
it's mandatory, hopefully itachieves three things.
Number one is you'veestablished as a company to say,
cool, right, and so that story,I'll get that story on.
You know, other people have toldstories that we just we know
right, let's make it clear thatwe don't accept this.
Second is let's try to put itin the chef's brain or
(18:19):
whomever's doing it.
Right, that you know.
Let's show you what it's likefrom the other perspective.
Do you want to be this person?
Like God?
I didn't really think about it.
You're right.
Wow, you know.
This individual has otherthings from their past that
they're bringing to the table.
And when I do this, I'mtriggering stuff that I don't
want to do Like.
I don't want to be that person.
(18:40):
So let's give them theopportunity to kind of see, like
this is a professional place,this isn't it's restaurants.
We're all weird, be weird.
Just can we point out to howyou're making now, if you still
want to do that, well then okay.
(19:03):
Part one is said we've clearedthat you shouldn't be, you
shouldn't do it, so now you'restaying or going.
The second is let's hold amirror to it.
And then the third is let'sempower the people with real
tools to get out of it.
So for myself, right Today, I'dbe able to say look, you got to
do better than this.
That's disgusting.
You want to make me laugh?
I love something funny in themorning.
Come up with something that'ssmarter than that.
That ain't smart.
Come on, you could do better.
And to put it on top of that,and to redirect it and handle
(19:26):
that bully in that moment.
And there's a lot of veryspecific stories and examples
that we use of how somebody gotout of a situation or redirected
a situation or help somebodyelse in a situation, before
taking it up a notch Now,absolutely, you take it up a
notch, but if anyone's listeningto this, one of the reasons I
(19:47):
don't subscribe to a governmentissued course is they're not
looking out for you as the smallbusiness.
They're looking to cover theirown ass.
And so I like a course thatsays let's see if you can figure
out how to handle theplayground yourself, says let's
see if you can figure out how tohandle the playground yourself,
and if it's not working, let'smake sure there are the right
(20:09):
reporting mechanisms in placeand the right triggers and the
rightdocumentation, to handle it
Absolutely and protect everybodywho needs to be protected.
But in the meantime, you know,because restaurants are
America's number one first job.
You know because restaurantsare america's number one first
job.
So a lot of these kids are justlearning how to be in a
professional environment andtoday there's less interaction
(20:30):
than there was when you and Istarted in restaurants.
There's more online gaming.
There's more things that thatare less personal skills that
people are developing, sothey're developing them at work,
so we get into the whole thing.
It's not just you can't do this.
It's like, okay, this is astrange situation you're
probably going to encounter.
Let's bring in somebody and howthey dealt with it right, or
(20:52):
hey, this is an awkwardsituation, but you're going to
grow from it.
It's not harassment or abuse,but like, figure out how to
navigate this moment, becausethat's going to give you a life
skill.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
I think you're absolutely right in trying not
trying in forcing our way, forlack of better terms to manage
the gray, because that graythese days is really deep
because of the point that youmade of there's a less human
interaction between people, withthe people that are getting
(21:25):
into restaurants the number oneindustry has a first job and
them getting into it.
They have less practice beingaround people, talking to people
.
What happens online is a reallythick gray line to where
(21:58):
there's lots of inappropriatethings happening and no one
there kind of guiding them andputting up those guardrails of
what should be said or done orshown between people and what
shouldn't Male, female, male,male, female, female, it doesn't
matter.
Male female, male, male, female, female, it doesn't matter.
But managing that gray area andgetting that from day one, from
the onboarding, from theorientation, making that stick
so that people can understandhow to then take that into
whether they're going to be aschool teacher or build rockets,
(22:19):
it doesn't matter.
But we can't turn our back onthat gray area and it needs to
be laid out more within a waythat is relatable to the people
that are hearing it and it'sbeing taught too.
So I love the I think you saidmedia stew that you're making in
order to help find the piecesthat stick for them, to get them
(22:45):
to understand what it's like tobe the other person on the
other end of that conversation.
Because when you're online,they're probably not thinking
about what it's like to be theother person in that big old
dark room called the internet.
They don't really care.
They just want to voice howthey feel, what they feel, in
whatever words that they choose.
And when you're in aprofessional setting, that's not
(23:08):
something that's going to stickor is going to have you
employed for that long if youdon't understand what those
boundaries are and how thatmakes someone else feel.
Now, a lot of this is good for,for the people that are coming
up as a pantry cook, as a server, as a grill cook, grill chef, a
(23:34):
maitre d' but I think, in myopinion, I love focusing in on
that, on those, on thosesupervisors opinion I love
focusing in on those supervisors, on those supervisors that are
helping to really draw theinfluence, have influence on the
culture that is happening inand around those four walls when
everyone else isn't looking.
(23:54):
So I know that you agree thatsupervisors are the bridge
between expectations andexecution, but what do they
really need in order to succeed,though?
Because we may put them inposition, but what are the
(24:14):
things that may be missing inorder to help them succeed when
they're helping to create thatculture?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So I remember being a supervisor, I remember being
the employee who showed up incollege working at this place
called Cafe Venezia and I'm 19working there and I'm
responsible and I love it.
And the owner came to me andwas like I got a position, for I
need somebody to be opener inthe morning and closer at night.
(24:41):
You know, not clopening but,like you know, taking on the
different positions, you'reresponsible.
Would you want the position?
I was, like you know, comeswith a raise.
I was like you know, let's doit.
And so here I am.
I have two things that mostsupervisors get, which is keys
to the door, which is a hell ofa responsibility, and the
ability to comp food and a drink, and immediately we make sure
(25:06):
that those are given.
What I was not given was okayand I'm showing up and I'm going
to make it on time.
And you know, the person who Iwanted to like, who was two
years older than me at thefraternity, showed up a little
(25:27):
bit late.
And how do I say come on, man,like I need you here.
You know, of course I'm notgoing to do that because that's
going to affect my socialrelationship with this
individual, and so I have notools of how to communicate them
, and there wasn't nearly thestructure in place that I
(25:48):
wouldn't need to communicatethis to them, because it was
clearly communicated in anobjective system.
And so you know we all start tofault.
I'm not going to take that risk, which means the restaurant's
going to be struggling becausethings aren't going to be
opening on time, which meanseventually I'm going to give up
(26:09):
my position as a leader becauseI don't want to deal with it,
because it's not worth it.
Revolving door and also behaviorisn't being coerced and
corrected, influenced andcorrected.
And so how do we set that up?
(26:32):
And that's part of what you andI are into and to me, I'm
approaching it from a couple ofdifferent ways.
And first is teaching an 18year old how to have an awkward
conversation with an 18 year old, and how do we do this?
I go back to stories where I'mnot going to tell them what to
do.
I grabbed a story of a fellow18-year-old that was like, let
me tell you what happened.
And I asked somebody andthey're like, why don't you try
to do it like this next time?
Say it like this, right?
(26:53):
And so really giving them thepractice and the tools to have
these.
Now you just you got to learnit in real time too, so you got
to get out there.
But let's arm you with thepractice and the tools and the
role playing so that you knowwhat to say and how to do this
(27:13):
and what to set it up.
That's the first the otherthing.
So arm them with theinformation.
The other thing is it's on us toestablish systems so we can
minimize the micromanaging asmuch as possible, and the way we
do that is through in training,constant general pressure of
micro messaging, and we do thatwith our media stew of different
things, of continually, youknow, rolling out how we need
(27:36):
you to behave.
And the second is any form oftraining or system in place so
that I'm not the jerk to tellyou you know you got to show up
on time.
Or let's put the rag back intothe sanitizer bucket, which is a
huge one.
You'll see that's a big one,right, it's illegal.
You can't leave the rag out.
I'm not going to take that, I'mjust going to keep putting it
(27:56):
in for people who didn't do it.
Or you know that shouldn't be myresponsibility and me to tell
you to do it.
You know, I don't want to nagyou.
Maybe you are, you know, notthe jerk, but you suck a little
bit because you're putting me ina position that I got to
continue to nag you.
Well, that only is in.
That's only clear if, from thetop down, the organization we've
(28:19):
said this is training.
This is the expectation.
Everybody, when you pass the rag, if you see it outside the
bucket, you throw it in the redbucket.
It's done that way.
Let's minimize the need tomicromanage.
Let's not make me the nudge,but let's put you in the
position of power.
Employee, fellow team member,that why'd you got, why'd you
put me in this position?
(28:39):
And most managers you knowrestaurant managers are just us
cool people, shift leads thatare just taking on more
responsibility.
Why are we putting them in theposition to have to like we're
the jerks, to put them in theposition to have to manage?
Us Managers should only bethere to support, manage the
situation, not the people.
(28:59):
Support the people, manage themoment.
That is how we Support thepeople, manage the moment.
That is how we do it.
That's how I'm looking to do it.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I like how you used the tactic of telling stories
and I think that's veryeffective, not only in branding.
And we're always told Seanwalsheft, tell your story, make
sure you, you, you, you tellyour story and if you feel
(29:30):
you've told it a thousand times,tell it a thousand more.
But telling stories to anyone,it doesn't matter if they're
tech savvy, um, or if they wereraised in sports since the age
of seven and have always beentold what to do.
It doesn't matter between thosetwo gaps, because if they're a
(29:51):
tech person that has been online, they've been on social media,
they've been, they've had freewill to say and do what they
want and go and learn what theywant when they want and express
themselves.
Typically, if you just tellthem, do this and don't do this,
that might not sink in as tothe why.
(30:12):
But when you can tell thatstory and you can help connect
those emotions to those triggerpoints within their nervous
system and then begin to see andfeel what you're saying, not
because there's this fence, thisguard up and someone's trying
to tell me what to do, butthey're picturing the moment in
(30:34):
what you're speaking towards andthey can feel the characters
that you're speaking to and thenthey understand.
So telling that story veryimpactful tactic in order to
help people understand thedifference between right and
wrong, while giving actionablefeedback in the moment to help
(30:57):
change future behavior.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
A hundred percent, and sometimes, just to
counterpoint that a little bit,the why works without the story,
so that when the story comes inyou know it's it, it's the
mixed media stew.
You got to flip it around alittle bit, but it, but, but the
and the why is just so vital inthis, in in, just like the
quickest way, because this, we,we do it like this right, and
(31:23):
you and you kind of set it up alittle bit, and, and so both of
those pieces together are huge.
Something that you touched on,that I know you're a big
proponent on, is, and if you'reconstantly reinforcing something
, whether it be positive or oryou know expectations or
anything, if you're reinforcingit maybe, then you throw a story
in the middle.
You're doing things maybe, thenyou throw a story in the middle
.
You're doing things Either way.
(31:44):
As a leader, you have thisconstant interaction and
communication and you teach.
Your frontline shift leads todo this.
Well then, if you need to coachsomebody, there's less of the
chance that they're putting upthat barrier you talked about
that.
This person's coming to correctme, because it's not always a
defense mechanism.
You're just expecting theinformation, because sometimes
it's very complimentary,sometimes it's very constructive
(32:06):
, whatever it is.
It's not always constructivewhen you're talking to me or
negative.
Therefore, I'm not putting upthis immediate block.
The most important thing toconnect with the other
individual and we learned this,building de-escalation training
(32:26):
was empathy, and the way thatyou get empathy is to see that
this person's on my side, sohaving something positive,
something that you agree on,whatever it is.
So this idea, this constantgeneral pressure, the person's
open to this idea that, whateverit is, you're here here, you
got my back, so I'm going tolisten to it which then allows
the story to resonate to land,the why to resonate to land.
(32:49):
But that constant coaching andstuff you touch on is huge for
the individual to not put upthose immediate defenses that we
do when we think thisindividual doesn't have my back.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
It really does boil down to how we start off those
conversations.
I have this one document thatsays say this, not that.
And yes, it is a piece of paper, but what it does is it helps
to teach people who don't knowhow to use their words.
Don't start off a conversationlike this.
(33:25):
Start it off like this versussaying man, you keep burning up
that sauce, billy, and everytime you burn up that sauce it
just sucks, because then we haveto redo it and we are losing
time on this order.
Versus, hey, billy, I've seenyour sauce come out great, but
I've noticed the past few timesit's been breaking.
(33:46):
Do me a favor, turn down theheat.
Let me see your sauces the nextfew times and let's make sure
that the heat control whatever.
But the start of it, the thestart of that conversation, is
going to either a have them hearevery other word or just hear,
billy, you suck, or they hearyou stating how to change future
(34:11):
behavior and the fact thatyou've seen them do better in
the past.
When they get used to hearingyou having that gun that type of
constructive feedback to whereit's not going straight negative
, you can always tie in thegreat moments, not always.
Every moment doesn't need a tiein of something great, but how
(34:33):
you start to that conversationwill either change future
behavior or cause them to pushback more, which, in place,
waste more time, kind of likeI'm doing with this conversation
.
This is your show, jason.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I'm just your guest.
Well, right, right, exactly.
So let's pick up, let's unravelthat a little bit.
So 100%.
I love that idea of you'recoming out of the gates by
saying hey, we, I noticed thatyou've really been doing this
great.
But recently and recently andwe think about the ands and the
(35:10):
buts there's been a couple timeswhere it's been breaking.
I got a suggestion on what Ithink we can move through this.
Are you open to that?
You know, cool, let's try this.
And you want to do it in a kindof casual way and you, if you
can, and be be a person talkingto a person and not be the hall
monitor and formalize it and andblow it up to be bigger than it
(35:32):
needs to be and just kind ofhave that, that, that
conversation with them, and thatknow that you're looking out to
that 100.
Another thing in addition tothat, as you started it by, by
the way, side note, I hate thecompliment sandwich or I'm not a
fan of it, so it can't becontrived and inauthentic.
We're just talking about thelead in.
That shows the brain.
This person's on my side.
(35:53):
A little compliment, a littlesomething On the other side of
it.
Or, in addition, I was talkingto a leader, a as experienced as
I am.
I'm helping him kind of, likeyou know, off the books, just
kind of weekly, giving a call,talking to him, helping him on
track as some changes arehappening in their organization.
(36:13):
And he was supposed to give me,you know, an update on a thing
that I had asked, which was, youknow, set your weekly goals and
whatnot.
And he was like you know, hetalked about kind of, and he did
.
He got really busy and pulledaway a little bit and the little
old school in me because oldschool to old school, because
I'm not talking to a youngermanager who reports up I was
(36:33):
really about to come out and belike listen, man, drop my F-bomb
and go do it or don't do it,and I'm not talking to you, this
is my time and don't waste.
You know.
And that could have beeneffective in a particular point.
But I said to him all right, dome a favor.
I know you want to deliver thisbecause you're asking me to
help and you've appreciated this.
He's like, you know, I said.
He's like, yeah, I said so,something's getting in the way.
(36:56):
Let's kind of figure out what'sgetting in the way so we can
move through this.
And he's like well, I picked upa couple other.
You know we lost a DO directorof ops, and so now I'm driving
around to people's locations andI'm in the car far more than I
was before.
I was like okay, that I canwork with.
Here's what we're going to doOpen up ChatGPT and we're going
(37:17):
to work this way and you'regoing to set the list and talk
about it and ask it to populatea PDF for me at the start of the
week and then the end of theweek of how you did and along
the week, just go back to thatchat while you're in the car and
update it, and it will producethe report for me.
He's like I didn't think aboutthat.
I was like do you think thatwill solve where we are?
He's like, absolutely.
I was like, okay, well, if itdoesn't, we're going to move
(37:39):
through the next one or I'mstopping these conversations
Right.
Then the little old school mecame out.
It was and so we'll see whathappens on Monday how the call
goes.
It was that idea, though, ofsaying and going back to the
sauce or whatever, and sayingthis is, we know what standard
is.
We've we've agreed to somethingit's not hitting.
(38:03):
Talk to me about, like, what doyou think is getting in the way
?
Because sometimes your cookmight say, truthfully, these
burners suck, they'reinconsistent, or it happens.
Or, truthfully, this floor mator John keeps coming over.
Something gets in the way.
So open up that conversationand get buy-in, because they
might have the exact solution.
Either way, they take ownership, and that's that I love.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
That's money, that is .
That is pure gold.
Ok, now you your execution oftraining is, I can absolutely
say, miles above what people areused to training, whether in
the restaurant industry or not.
(38:44):
They are so used to seeing in2D and you are in 4D with a
shadow.
What is your long term visionof standardized training, not
just the top shelf of training?
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Not just the top shelf of training.
What is your vision ofstandardized box and ready to go
so that any restaurant couldturn it on and it's out of the
box, digitized, and you justbegin, like I said, 80% of it
there.
I started with compliancebecause we had some other issues
to tackle that we got into,then we moved into safety, then
we moved into leadershipdevelopment.
Now we're moving into whatyou're talking about and the way
(39:40):
what's really kind of crazy is,unless you're fine, fine, fine
dining and there's some specificthings aside from the menu.
Like I said, 80 to 90% of it isgoing to be the same for quick
service to quick service, fastcasual to fast casual and full
service to full service,training being digitized as we
(40:09):
speak on our platform or others,because we are not just about
the tech.
I want to be where people are.
I think is going to really help, at least for now, small to
medium-sized businesses navigatethe pitfalls that a lot of
people hit and then attractorganized people, because
organized people want to workfor organized environments.
Now let's talk about somethingwe're about to launch Just here,
(40:31):
just now spoken.
What's coming down the pipeline?
It's going to be the beginningthat leads to this next phase.
What we are launching is weArrow Up.
Now it's not there yet it'scoming because we're working
with a couple sponsors.
We Arrow Up is wearrowupcom.
(40:53):
It's a template, but you'll seewe are rolling out free micro
training to anyone who wants it,because restaurants are
America's number one first job,as we said, and a lot of these
people need the skills and thetools and whatnot to get going.
So there is the eight-minutemicro course of the basics, the
one-on-ones of working together.
(41:14):
Talks about showing up on time,not a way that's like you gotta
show up on time like peopletelling a story.
It's got slips, trips and falls.
It's got how these are lifeskills right.
Then we go into micro course, afour-minute course, five
minutes on communication how dowe speak, the words we use, as
we said, the difference betweencan you move and I'm behind
(41:35):
right here, and letting peopleknow, because those things
matter.
Kitchen commandments Some ofthe Ten Commandments of what we
expect from you working in thekitchen.
It's a minute and a half funlittle video attached to a
course that I absolutely love.
Kind of like, say, knife behindyou know hurt All that stuff and
(42:00):
when to taste the food and youknow, use the salt.
Manager feedback, cashiering101.
And what we're going to do isnow we're still selling our
compliance training to anyonewho is from small business to.
You know, our last one had 350units.
We got the best anti-harassmentsafety courses.
Come to ArrowUpTrainingcom andwe will, you know, get you the
(42:25):
right price for compliancetraining.
But for all of these otherthings we arrow up.
My vision is we're going to rollthis out, give it for free to
everybody, let them tell us whatthey need, start to build on it
.
We're not we're not giving awayall the secret sauce on
leadership We'll see, but somuch that's helping the
frontline staff.
(42:45):
And then my goal is to haveco-sponsors funding it with us
so that we can continue to givethis away and get the arrow up
way of doing things out toeverybody and build, get that
zero to one that restaurantsneed.
That's coming down the pipelinevery, very quickly, and then
(43:08):
it's going to be all communitybuilt right.
We're going to work with peopleto keep building this up.
So I'm really excited.
That will then be also a greatnet to see who wants to come on
the platform and do moretrackable training and task
management and standardoperating procedures.
But let's get this out toeverybody.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
You know I'm honored you shared that on this podcast.
I am Wow.
That would be awesome, Jason.
I mean that would be.
It really is a huge gap thatthe small to medium sized
restaurants out there have instating that we don't have the
(43:47):
budget in order to do training.
Right, I just need you to watchme and do what I do, but don't
say what I say, because I'm theboss, you know.
I mean that's not.
That's not real training andbeing able to, to offer that
free training, micro training toeveryone yes, I can see that as
(44:08):
the future.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
You like it.
It's cool.
Yeah, we'll see how it goes.
I mean, we'll see.
I can just tell you I'm excitedand we're calling it the
Restaurant Essentials.
And so the Restaurant Essentialsare the basics that are
universal across the board.
So we've established a cohesive, agreed upon language and set
of expectations.
Let's pass on the right.
So we've established a cohesive, agreed-upon language and set
of expectations.
Let's pass on the right.
You know, when we're walkingtowards each other that's how we
(44:31):
do it in the States when we'reright in the corner behind
picking things up off the floor.
All of those basics and down tothe idea of, yeah, the worst
shift you've ever experiencedmost likely is when a coworker
didn't show up.
So are you going to do that toyour other coworkers?
Right?
And so we just really start tobuild all that into it, and
(44:55):
that's part of it.
As Sean says, you knoweveryone's a media company.
I mean, you're an incrediblemedia company.
That's a piece of our mediacompany.
And these are, these are highdesign courses, high produce,
high design, micro training.
So it's a blanket way, goingback to the idea of let's just
do it the arrow up way and thenlaid a framework to the basics
and then every culture withinitself, because you've
(45:18):
established expectations andtrackability.
Well, now the culture is goingto live inside the experience
you're uniquely providing andwho the people are and what
music you're playing.
Right, our goal is to get tothe point that we don't tell you
what your culture is.
We just cover the basics so youcan actually curate the culture
and not be hamstrung anddealing with all the other crap.
That was manageable and really,if you just were proactive with
(45:42):
it, you were going to clearthat stuff out of the way so you
can get to the good stuff Ilove it.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, you, you, you definitely don't want to be the
one that uh helps to shape ordefine that culture.
That's going to come, naturally, with the owner, with the
founders, with the team.
It is uh managing the minutia,the basics, the essentials, in
order to help get to where thatculture can grow.
(46:09):
I have two more questions foryou.
Two more, okay, two more.
If you could sit at aleadership table with three
other leaders, whether alive orfrom history, who would you
choose, and why?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, I thought about this.
I appreciate you setting it up,and so here are three, because
I'm going to talk about threevery specific moments.
So these are maybe a littleheady and old school, for I
don't know.
I know the expansive oflisteners.
First is John F Kennedy, rightat the decision of the Bay of
Pigs time of to literally go towar or not go to war.
(46:48):
I want to be there and I wantto know, and I've read books on
it and whatnot, but I want toknow what.
How did you know to make thatdecision?
Because, at the end of the day,it's about deciding right and
it's about deciding, and that, Ithink, might be another
question coming up, so I'm goingto hold off on that.
(47:08):
The second would be MartinLuther King Jr, right when he
was done with the.
I have a dream speech, notbefore but right after Celebrate
.
Did you let excitement fill theroom?
Was it so serious and of amoment that you couldn't even
take the time for that?
You know what was the room likeright after that.
(47:32):
You know when people werehugging you and being like you
crush this, this thing is goingto live forever.
What was he like?
What was that Like?
Do you let that moment sink inor not sink in?
I really would love to havebeen in the room in that moment
and the third is Lincoln.
Abraham Lincoln, right beforegoing on stage for the
(47:55):
Gettysburg Address.
And that one again what wouldyou think that you're about to
accomplish?
You're on a battlefield.
You're honoring those that havelost the country's figuring out
if it's worth it or not worthit, but you have ideals and you
need to say something that'sgoing to inspire people to
continue to lose their lives andthe lives of their children to
believe in something bigger thanthemselves.
(48:17):
Tell me, right before you go on, aside from winning the war,
what does, what does successlook like and what?
What is the conviction that youfelt really comfortable?
Being able to tell people to dothis?
Why?
Why were you so sure that thiswas something that you could say
?
So I loved that question and Iappreciate you setting it up,
(48:39):
because it's not just a leaderand being able to pick their
brain.
But there was a moment in timefor each three of these leaders
and I want to know what the hellwas up at that moment.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
That's deep, that's, that's that is next level that
we don't tend to go back and domeaning.
(49:11):
Whenever we fail, we tend tolet it drag us through for the
next week, the next month, thenext year, 10 years.
We hold on to that negativemotion or emotion more than
something positive, whenever weget into the, whenever it
happened.
How come we don't really goback and hit the pause and
(49:32):
understand the why and actuallylearn from that and then mimic
that.
Not just mimic it, but make itsystematic to where we are able
to have those moments more oftenor spread them on to others.
So I love that.
Last question what's oneconversation in your career that
(49:54):
profoundly shaped how you leadtoday?
And I know you've had lots ofconversations, lots of great
ones, but what's one that comesto mind that says this one,
right here, is what helped buildthe foundation of how I do what
I do.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
The picking up a little bit on the last answer.
I was a young vice president ofa restaurant group, little
experience for my position, andI kind of took that position
from director up because Ineeded to control the ops, to
run service, and I was reallylooking to be democratic.
(50:34):
I had my team, I had mydirector of learning with me, I
had my director of operationswith me and a few other people,
and we're sitting in the roomand we're trying to figure out
how do we push the openings andwhat do we do, because the
money's, you know, demandingparticular things of us and I
and I went around the room and Igot everybody's opinion and
(50:58):
then, instead of just making adecision, I kept talking about
it and I asked a couple morequestions, not necessarily
because I needed theirinformation, but I was trying to
be a little bit more democraticand make sure everybody truly
felt heard and that I was notready to decide.
And so it was part mefloundering and part me also
(51:22):
wanting to be extremelydemocratic with the room.
And my director of learningsaid who was a GM with us and
worked our way up, look, doesn'tmatter, at this point You're
our boss, you just got to make adecision and we'll follow you.
And I was like, oh my God, andit hit me like a ton of bricks,
(51:43):
right.
Oh my God, and it hit me like aton of bricks, right.
People would rather followdecisiveness, even off a cliff
multiple times, than work undera leader who can't make up their
mind or who's trying to just beso democratic that everybody
(52:03):
feels heard.
And you want to make sureeveryone's heard and you
absolutely want to make surethat you get the right input,
especially from your seniorleadership, because they're
going to give you theinformation you need.
But then just decide.
Even if it's right or wrong.
The fact that you decided wasthe most important thing.
If it's time, it's time, anddon't wait a second longer.
(52:24):
Make sure you don't do it toosoon, but when it's time, far
too many leaders wait too long,myself included.
And that moment hit me rightover the head and I would like
to think since then, I'vepracticed that.
I've really, really practicedthat.
So be a decisive leader foryour team, I agree 100%.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Ted Lasso does a really good job.
I'm sure you know who Ted Lassois.
Ted Lasso does a really goodjob of using that democratic
coaching style in order to getthe voice of everyone in the
room that needs to have a say inthat choice, and then, but just
know that after you hear thosevoices, that you are still the
(53:15):
one that has to make that choice.
I also like how Amazon Bezoshas one of his rules of the only
people that need to be in theroom for a meeting is just
enough for to feed two pizzas.
If there's more people in theroom, that would eat more than
(53:39):
two boxes of pizza.
You have too many people at thetable.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
The only reason why how big of a pizza, I'd say
medium, medium.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Okay, the only reason why someone is in a meeting and
this is one of my rules theonly reason why someone is in a
meeting, you ask them to be in ameeting because if they weren't
there then decisions would notbe able to be made in that 30
(54:13):
minutes or 60 minutes.
If they are asked to be in ameeting and they have nothing to
do with any decision that isbeing made, that they're not the
core, then why are they in themeeting?
They can be told what the thingis going to happen afterwards,
so that's also one thing.
Now, my listeners I'm sure theyabsolutely loved a lot of what
(54:38):
you said.
Some of them know you.
A lot of them may not.
Where can they find out moreabout Jason Berkowitz?
Arrow Up Training, and we ArrowUp as well.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
So love it, Appreciate the opportunity.
I am on LinkedIn, jason DBerkowitz for LinkedIn.
You will find me there and bothJason's Brooks and Berkowitz
have LinkedIn presence.
We like to communicate with ourplatform and our people and our
community, arrowuptrainingcom,and we just put together a new
(55:15):
compliance tab.
Check that out Prettystraightforward, with pricing
and all of what we do and how wedeliver our compliance training
for restaurant operators byrestaurant operators.
So there's a reason to use that.
And then, depending on whenthis launches but let's say
(55:35):
October 1st by October 1st go towearrowupcom and then let us
know There'll be some emails andstuff.
Take, and then let us knowThere'll be some emails and
stuff.
Take some courses and let usknow what we should build next,
because that's what it's goingto be.
It's going to be communitysourced.
And then, a year from now,hopefully, we got American
(55:55):
Express and Coca-Cola and allthose people sponsoring this and
we're just going to keepbuilding.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Jason, thank you for sharing your insights and your
passion and your stories becausethey help to really connect
those dots.
And to everyone tuning in, ofcourse, if you like the episode
and it resonated with you, don'tjust say this was great,
Subscribe, leave a review, shareit with a leader that can
(56:21):
benefit from better training,stronger teams or even just
better stories.
You can visit jasonebrookscomfor more leadership tools and
resources.
And until next time, remember,manage, lead, coach, repeat.
Thank you so much, Jason.
Thanks for joining me.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Leadership Table, where
conversations inspire, lead andelevate.
I'm your host, jason E Brooks,and today I'm joined by Jason
Berkowitz, hospitality veteranand founder of Arrow Up Training
.
Jason has opened more than 50restaurants, led operations at
major brands and now works toturn compliance and safety
(00:26):
training into culture, buildingexperiences that stick.
We'll talk about why onboardingsets the tone from day one, how
supervisors bridge expectationsand execution, and Jason's
vision for we Arrow Up a freeessentials training platform for
restaurants nationwide.
Let's dive in.
(00:46):
You know I like to ask apersonal question, just so the
listeners get to know the personyou know.
So quick, rapid fire Book,podcast or playlist that's been
in your rotation lately.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So here's how I work with books.
At nighttime I try to not readanything that's going to get my
brain going, because then Ican't sleep.
So nighttime are for fiction,nonfiction, biographies, fun
books.
I started the Harry Potterseries, not even restarted.
(01:25):
I've seen the movies.
I'm going back to the books,which is great for daytime books
.
I have started audio books,which is somewhat new to me, and
I'm on this train right now.
Maybe you'll audio, you knowyou'll VO yours at some point.
Maybe it's coming out, maybenot, doesn't need to happen, but
(01:48):
to me I love that while sort ofworking out or doing something.
So a recent book is Abundance.
Ezra Klein's one of theco-writers of it.
I made it through the wholething.
I appreciate its perspective,which is saying that the
Democratic Party used to be aparty of building.
It was a party of making thingswhich led to economic prosperity
(02:10):
and the middle class and alongthe way, due to lack of trust
with somewhat of the government,started to put up a lot of
regulation and barriers andlawsuits and stopped building
things.
And if we want to actually havea world of abundance abundant
energy, abundant, you know,health care, things like that
that matters then the DemocraticParty for itself needs to look
(02:33):
and say at what cost you know,is all of these death by a
thousand paper cuts?
That matters to me very much inthe restaurant business out
here in Los Angeles, where I'm afounding member of the
Independent HospitalityCoalition, because we're working
diligently to remove a lot ofthe red tape that we deal with
(02:54):
when opening up restaurants inCalifornia, whether it be
permitting, costs, delays,mismanagement, you know.
So I like that book and I'mfiguring out how to take that
down to a level of a fairly bluestate, because to me the heart
of community is small business.
So that is a book that I'verecently just finished.
(03:17):
I'm starting a new one and I'mdigging the audio books and I
like it during the daytime andgetting my brain going.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I was just about to say you would know more than
just about anyone about thatabundance mindset and the
negative kickback that hashappened from the shift of what
that party used to be and whatit shifted towards.
And you have front row seats toseeing that in California.
(03:49):
So, yes, that makes sense.
All right, not to get toopolitical.
But next question Best concertlast five years, best concert
you've been to and I know thatyou're a musician so you have
you always want to give praise.
At the same time you'recritical.
Best concert last five years.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I went to the Grateful Dead at the Sphere and
that was really awesome.
And that's aging myself andthat's doing everything, but it
was my birthday, it was thisyear.
Yeah, it was just such a funexperience because even it
begins before you even enter thesphere.
If you go to the sphere for anyreason, see a show, I love
entering through for any futureshows.
(04:31):
To go enter through the walkwaycoming from I think it's a
Venetian or the Palazzo Hotel,whether you stay there or not,
go have a bite to eat, a drinkor whatnot.
As you're walking over, you'rewalking over with everybody and
the culture of the community, ofwhatever the band and the vibe
is.
So for that it was great,because you had multiple
(04:51):
generations of people grandkids,grandparents, kids everybody
together, whether they'rerocking their tie dye or their
skull and steal your face ordancing bears.
There was just this feeling ofjoy that was in the air and
there was this moment feeling ofjoy that was in the air.
And, um, there was this momentin the show.
Right before the show, somebodyspilled something on the steps
(05:12):
and it must have been bad.
I couldn't really see but oneof the attendants who worked
there uh, you know, one of thethe team members cleaned it up
and apparently had like it wasthis big spill and did this
thorough job.
And then, once they finishedaround them, everyone gave them
an applause.
I was like man, this is, and itwas this big spill and did this
thorough job.
And then, once they finishedaround them, everyone gave him
an applause.
I was like this is and it was asincere one, it was sincere
appreciation, it was like it'slike, first off, how cool is
(05:35):
that?
Right, that this person waslike that's cool, thank you.
Secondly, that a thorough jobwas done, or that would be first
for safety, because if you slipon these steps, it is no bueno,
yeah.
But thirdly, I was like man, Idig this, this group of people,
this truly appreciative, youknow, some would say maybe soft
in some areas but big hearted inothers.
(05:56):
I just loved that moment.
And then the band came on, itcrushed it and the visuals and
the experience and this, youknow, multidimensional thing.
And so when we think aboutrestaurants, what is the all
encompassing experience at theend of the day?
It's how you feel.
Sometimes it's just the food,the music, right, if you
transfer it over.
What's the product that you'recommunicating?
(06:17):
But then can you take itfurther and you know what's the
full experience and how's theemotion.
So, tying it back to this theme, that was just powerful, you
know.
Then I went to a concert wheresomebody was on an acoustic
guitar and that was powerful.
It's what you do with the toolsyou have.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You know.
Speaking of tools, you havewent through a whole tool chest
in your you know background, inyour resume.
You've opened 50 plusrestaurants.
You've held senior leadershiproles.
But out of all of that, whatare the things you learned from
opening restaurants, runningrestaurants, being as a leader
(06:59):
that inspired you to launch?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
arrow up training, though one very basic notion
that I learned years ago.
Everybody just needs to know,or wants to know, two things
what's my job and how am I doing?
And what's my job is in settingand training expectations.
(07:22):
So so you've documented whatgood looks like and you've
trained it in a way that landsand communicates.
The second one is how am Idoing and how am I doing?
Is in feedback, any sort offeedback?
It could be a checklist thatchecks off, that says this was
what was expected, this wascompleted.
It could be a more formalizedreview, it could be little
(07:44):
flybys just want to let you know.
You crushed it last night,things like that.
And when I was opening uprestaurants or when I was coming
in as a no matter what myposition was, as long as I was
somewhat above store authority,up to from director of service,
up to chief operating officer, Iwould say you know, no one
(08:04):
talked to me for two weeks to 30days because I'm just going to
go, put a full training programin place, because if I open up
my emails, even I'm done,because now I'm working on
what's urgent and if I'm workingon what's urgent, I can't focus
on what's important, and bydoing that I was going to
mitigate so many of the problemsthat were going to become
urgent and then at that point Isaid you know what, I can start
(08:29):
to systematize this and rollthis out as a bit of a blanket.
You know off the shelf toolkitfor restaurants to use, so that
they're not starting at zero,they're starting at one or two
or three or four right, and thenthey can fill in the gaps.
Oh, they're starting at one ortwo or three or four right, and
then they can fill in the gaps.
And you know, we'll get intohow we started and where we
moved.
But if there's any takeawaysfor any leader or anyone here
(08:51):
and I mean you're crushing whatyou're sharing with them and how
to give feedback and when togive feedback and all of that
are you answering these twoquestions for anybody who
reports to you or reports up oryou support?
If you aren't, go focus on thatimmediately.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
If you have emerging managers who need to grow into
confident leaders, or if you'repart of a nonprofit, a culinary
workforce program or a pro-starteducation foundation looking to
equip students and alumni withleadership skills.
That's exactly why we createdCoachUp.
It's a cohort-based programthat helps new leaders
(09:30):
communicate clearly, coach withconfidence and succeed in
leadership roles.
In just a few weeks, they'llhave the skills to thrive and
you'll see the difference inyour people.
Learn more at jasonebrookscomforward slash coach up.
Why is it that we seem to berevisiting the question of
(09:54):
training and how to train somuch?
It seems like we tend to haveone of those industries that
it's it's.
It is almost always a reset orpeople figuring out the how to
do it whether it's a new brandlaunching or whatever and
(10:15):
they're always trying to figureout how do I actually train
right and how, not just trainright?
How do we stop sucking, notjust train right?
How do we stop sucking?
And when I look at otherindustries, does it really
happen that often or is it thatI'm just not in those circles to
see that sucking that much?
Is it just me or have you seenit that that we keep coming back
(10:40):
to?
We need to do better attraining our people.
You you put together a verygreat tool that people are able
to really dig in and do it.
But why is it that that peoplestarting new in their business
need to answer that question ofhow do we stop sucking at
training?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
I think it's a great question and I think I think
every industry struggles with it.
I think restaurants strugglewith it probably more for a few
reasons.
One is such high turnover,thinking about the cost centers
and how that's actuallyaffecting you in so many, you
know, holistic and unholisticways, and I think there's not
(11:22):
that many out of the boxsolutions that make it easy for
people to take, adapt and buildon.
So we're getting deep into SOPs, out-of-the-box, just here you
go.
Here's, even beyond training.
Here's your standard operatingprocedures, literally
out-of-the-box, ready to go, andthat 80% to 90% of what you
need is there.
You can fill in the gaps onyour recipes and stuff like that
which is bigger than the 10%,but I'm saying is all the other
(11:45):
stuff it's out of the box andit's ready to go.
So I think it's lack ofbandwidth.
I think it's a lot offirst-time owners that get into
the game and don't realize theydon't know what they don't know
and they're not listening tothese podcasts and they're not
absorbing, and so they'restarting a little too late and
behind the ball.
And then, once you're behindthe ball, you're putting out
(12:11):
fires and then at that momentyou are, once you get to the
point that you're focusing onwhat's urgent over what's
important and you're not doing abalance of it at some point,
then you're behind the ball.
And so that's one of thesolutions why we're coming in
saying look, here you go.
It's not everything you need,but it is so much of what you
need out of the gates.
Get going, let's get you moving, and then you figure out who
(12:34):
your rock stars are, becauseorganized people work for
organized environments, and thenthey'll help you fill in the
gaps for the other stuff.
So it's turnover, it's industry,it's new owners, it's lack of
resources out there, it's, it'sa lot of these things, and and
sometimes it's just in theeducation of, like you know,
owners will say people areterrible, they don't, they don't
(12:56):
get it.
Well, did you set them up forsuccess?
And fortunately that attracts alot of restaurant owners.
Restaurant owners, especiallysmall independents a lot of the
best are out of their mind andso they're so good at certain
things and not at others.
That's why, when I was aconsultant, I learned to have a
very thick skin and I would sayto them fire your bullets at me,
(13:19):
not any team members and let mefigure out how to communicate
them and translate that intoaction, because they're not
going to understand what you'retrying to solve and actually
what you think you want to solve.
Right now you're notcommunicating in the right way,
but I know what we need to solve.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Let's go to the opposite end of that spectrum,
so we just talk through thosethat hit the ground running and
don't think through theprocesses needed to actually get
training done, the right way tobe the most effective.
Let's look at the other end ofthat spectrum, that end of the
(13:57):
spectrum where the brand's beenaround since 1960.
There's a thousand locationsand they got that damn
compliance training back from1982.
And no one feels it, no onegets it.
They're just crying their eyesout Like please just let it stop
(14:18):
, stop the bleeding.
How do you make compliancetraining, especially something
as sexy as compliance?
How do you make it engaging andrelatable?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And we say come for the compliance day for the vibe.
Thanks for that setup, you knowor we used to say we make
sexual harassment training sexyand she's got to have a little
bit of fun with it Got to hit itright on the nose.
Just hit it right on the nose,man Right on the nose.
So thanks for that lob.
It's a good lob and a goodsetup with that.
Let me tell you a story thatcame to mind only this past week
(14:56):
and I didn't even think aboutit while we were building out
our anti-harassment training.
I remember when I was a new Ithink it was my first job as a
restaurant manager in a finedining restaurant and I was
front of house and the sous chefused to every morning love,
because I was the morningmanager.
I'm paying my dues at 6 amshowing up.
(15:18):
And the sous chef used to loveto come out every morning and
pull out his flip phone and showme just terrible, disgusting
images or short little videos orlittle things on it that was
just like just very chef driventerrible.
Some of that was absolutelyhilarious and you know I have a
(15:40):
high tolerance and some of itwas just I can't get the image
out of my brain.
Disgusting and and it was likehe, he didn't do it to make me
laugh so much, it was a powerplay and it was a you know this,
this power move and and this,this move to make me feel
awkward and that's what he wasgoing for.
I want to see how awkward I canmake you.
And I laughed because I neededhim to like me, because when the
(16:06):
back of house likes you, lifeis easier in the restaurant than
not, and I absolutely hate that.
And I've done a good job ofworking on that in any
restaurant that I was a leadoperator in and we're working on
that through moving the culture.
Now, that's not a story I told,but that's a story that we get
and understand and we have a lotof stories like this that we
(16:29):
captured on our training and sowe go back to.
How do you make it interesting?
You capture real stories ofmoments that we can all relate
to that are not the obvious quidpro quo.
You know, if you sleep with meI'll give you the better shifts,
because we all know that andyou've got to communicate that.
That ain't right.
But other things that are alittle bit of the gray area and
(16:52):
a little bit of the lines ofjust when we know like, oh my
God, that did happen to me andto me our training is modern
because we're telling realstories that people are talking
about.
We're folding it into GIFs andmemes and mixed media stew, you
know, I love it.
Somebody just took our trainingto see about bringing it on
(17:14):
board and they said it's like adocumentary.
You know, I feel like thistraining should be on Netflix
and I was like that's awesomeBecause we're capturing these
videos.
That's awesome's awesome, andthey signed and they're a big
company, um, and we and I and Iabsolutely love that.
And then they talked about how.
But then, all of a sudden,you're going into all these like
(17:34):
fun little interactions andstories and memes and gifts and
podcasts.
So that's how we do it, but why?
But why do I care about that?
For our training?
What am I looking to do?
Well, if you're in a state thatrequires it, then you need to
do it anyway.
So, as somebody said to mebefore we started, can you make
something a little less painful,please?
We went further, but whetheryou are or not in a place that
(17:59):
it's mandatory, hopefully itachieves three things.
Number one is you'veestablished as a company to say,
cool, right, and so that story,I'll get that story on.
You know, other people have toldstories that we just we know
right, let's make it clear thatwe don't accept this.
Second is let's try to put itin the chef's brain or
(18:19):
whomever's doing it.
Right, that you know.
Let's show you what it's likefrom the other perspective.
Do you want to be this person?
Like God?
I didn't really think about it.
You're right.
Wow, you know.
This individual has otherthings from their past that
they're bringing to the table.
And when I do this, I'mtriggering stuff that I don't
want to do Like.
I don't want to be that person.
(18:40):
So let's give them theopportunity to kind of see, like
this is a professional place,this isn't it's restaurants.
We're all weird, be weird.
Just can we point out to howyou're making now, if you still
want to do that, well then okay.
(19:03):
Part one is said we've clearedthat you shouldn't be, you
shouldn't do it, so now you'restaying or going.
The second is let's hold amirror to it.
And then the third is let'sempower the people with real
tools to get out of it.
So for myself, right Today, I'dbe able to say look, you got to
do better than this.
That's disgusting.
You want to make me laugh?
I love something funny in themorning.
Come up with something that'ssmarter than that.
That ain't smart.
Come on, you could do better.
And to put it on top of that,and to redirect it and handle
(19:26):
that bully in that moment.
And there's a lot of veryspecific stories and examples
that we use of how somebody gotout of a situation or redirected
a situation or help somebodyelse in a situation, before
taking it up a notch Now,absolutely, you take it up a
notch, but if anyone's listeningto this, one of the reasons I
(19:47):
don't subscribe to a governmentissued course is they're not
looking out for you as the smallbusiness.
They're looking to cover theirown ass.
And so I like a course thatsays let's see if you can figure
out how to handle theplayground yourself, says let's
see if you can figure out how tohandle the playground yourself,
and if it's not working, let'smake sure there are the right
(20:09):
reporting mechanisms in placeand the right triggers and the
rightdocumentation, to handle it
Absolutely and protect everybodywho needs to be protected.
But in the meantime, you know,because restaurants are
America's number one first job.
You know because restaurantsare america's number one first
job.
So a lot of these kids are justlearning how to be in a
professional environment andtoday there's less interaction
(20:30):
than there was when you and Istarted in restaurants.
There's more online gaming.
There's more things that thatare less personal skills that
people are developing, sothey're developing them at work,
so we get into the whole thing.
It's not just you can't do this.
It's like, okay, this is astrange situation you're
probably going to encounter.
Let's bring in somebody and howthey dealt with it right, or
(20:52):
hey, this is an awkwardsituation, but you're going to
grow from it.
It's not harassment or abuse,but like, figure out how to
navigate this moment, becausethat's going to give you a life
skill.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
I think you're absolutely right in trying not
trying in forcing our way, forlack of better terms to manage
the gray, because that graythese days is really deep
because of the point that youmade of there's a less human
interaction between people, withthe people that are getting
(21:25):
into restaurants the number oneindustry has a first job and
them getting into it.
They have less practice beingaround people, talking to people
.
What happens online is a reallythick gray line to where
(21:58):
there's lots of inappropriatethings happening and no one
there kind of guiding them andputting up those guardrails of
what should be said or done orshown between people and what
shouldn't Male, female, male,male, female, female, it doesn't
matter.
Male female, male, male, female, female, it doesn't matter.
But managing that gray area andgetting that from day one, from
the onboarding, from theorientation, making that stick
so that people can understandhow to then take that into
whether they're going to be aschool teacher or build rockets,
(22:19):
it doesn't matter.
But we can't turn our back onthat gray area and it needs to
be laid out more within a waythat is relatable to the people
that are hearing it and it'sbeing taught too.
So I love the I think you saidmedia stew that you're making in
order to help find the piecesthat stick for them, to get them
(22:45):
to understand what it's like tobe the other person on the
other end of that conversation.
Because when you're online,they're probably not thinking
about what it's like to be theother person in that big old
dark room called the internet.
They don't really care.
They just want to voice howthey feel, what they feel, in
whatever words that they choose.
And when you're in aprofessional setting, that's not
(23:08):
something that's going to stickor is going to have you
employed for that long if youdon't understand what those
boundaries are and how thatmakes someone else feel.
Now, a lot of this is good for,for the people that are coming
up as a pantry cook, as a server, as a grill cook, grill chef, a
(23:34):
maitre d' but I think, in myopinion, I love focusing in on
that, on those, on thosesupervisors opinion I love
focusing in on those supervisors, on those supervisors that are
helping to really draw theinfluence, have influence on the
culture that is happening inand around those four walls when
everyone else isn't looking.
(23:54):
So I know that you agree thatsupervisors are the bridge
between expectations andexecution, but what do they
really need in order to succeed,though?
Because we may put them inposition, but what are the
(24:14):
things that may be missing inorder to help them succeed when
they're helping to create thatculture?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So I remember being a supervisor, I remember being
the employee who showed up incollege working at this place
called Cafe Venezia and I'm 19working there and I'm
responsible and I love it.
And the owner came to me andwas like I got a position, for I
need somebody to be opener inthe morning and closer at night.
(24:41):
You know, not clopening but,like you know, taking on the
different positions, you'reresponsible.
Would you want the position?
I was, like you know, comeswith a raise.
I was like you know, let's doit.
And so here I am.
I have two things that mostsupervisors get, which is keys
to the door, which is a hell ofa responsibility, and the
ability to comp food and a drink, and immediately we make sure
(25:06):
that those are given.
What I was not given was okayand I'm showing up and I'm going
to make it on time.
And you know, the person who Iwanted to like, who was two
years older than me at thefraternity, showed up a little
(25:27):
bit late.
And how do I say come on, man,like I need you here.
You know, of course I'm notgoing to do that because that's
going to affect my socialrelationship with this
individual, and so I have notools of how to communicate them
, and there wasn't nearly thestructure in place that I
(25:48):
wouldn't need to communicatethis to them, because it was
clearly communicated in anobjective system.
And so you know we all start tofault.
I'm not going to take that risk, which means the restaurant's
going to be struggling becausethings aren't going to be
opening on time, which meanseventually I'm going to give up
(26:09):
my position as a leader becauseI don't want to deal with it,
because it's not worth it.
Revolving door and also behaviorisn't being coerced and
corrected, influenced andcorrected.
And so how do we set that up?
(26:32):
And that's part of what you andI are into and to me, I'm
approaching it from a couple ofdifferent ways.
And first is teaching an 18year old how to have an awkward
conversation with an 18 year old, and how do we do this?
I go back to stories where I'mnot going to tell them what to
do.
I grabbed a story of a fellow18-year-old that was like, let
me tell you what happened.
And I asked somebody andthey're like, why don't you try
to do it like this next time?
Say it like this, right?
(26:53):
And so really giving them thepractice and the tools to have
these.
Now you just you got to learnit in real time too, so you got
to get out there.
But let's arm you with thepractice and the tools and the
role playing so that you knowwhat to say and how to do this
(27:13):
and what to set it up.
That's the first the otherthing.
So arm them with theinformation.
The other thing is it's on us toestablish systems so we can
minimize the micromanaging asmuch as possible, and the way we
do that is through in training,constant general pressure of
micro messaging, and we do thatwith our media stew of different
things, of continually, youknow, rolling out how we need
(27:36):
you to behave.
And the second is any form oftraining or system in place so
that I'm not the jerk to tellyou you know you got to show up
on time.
Or let's put the rag back intothe sanitizer bucket, which is a
huge one.
You'll see that's a big one,right, it's illegal.
You can't leave the rag out.
I'm not going to take that, I'mjust going to keep putting it
(27:56):
in for people who didn't do it.
Or you know that shouldn't be myresponsibility and me to tell
you to do it.
You know, I don't want to nagyou.
Maybe you are, you know, notthe jerk, but you suck a little
bit because you're putting me ina position that I got to
continue to nag you.
Well, that only is in.
That's only clear if, from thetop down, the organization we've
(28:19):
said this is training.
This is the expectation.
Everybody, when you pass the rag, if you see it outside the
bucket, you throw it in the redbucket.
It's done that way.
Let's minimize the need tomicromanage.
Let's not make me the nudge,but let's put you in the
position of power.
Employee, fellow team member,that why'd you got, why'd you
put me in this position?
(28:39):
And most managers you knowrestaurant managers are just us
cool people, shift leads thatare just taking on more
responsibility.
Why are we putting them in theposition to have to like we're
the jerks, to put them in theposition to have to manage?
Us Managers should only bethere to support, manage the
situation, not the people.
(28:59):
Support the people, manage themoment.
That is how we Support thepeople, manage the moment.
That is how we do it.
That's how I'm looking to do it.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I like how you used the tactic of telling stories
and I think that's veryeffective, not only in branding.
And we're always told Seanwalsheft, tell your story, make
sure you, you, you, you tellyour story and if you feel
(29:30):
you've told it a thousand times,tell it a thousand more.
But telling stories to anyone,it doesn't matter if they're
tech savvy, um, or if they wereraised in sports since the age
of seven and have always beentold what to do.
It doesn't matter between thosetwo gaps, because if they're a
(29:51):
tech person that has been online, they've been on social media,
they've been, they've had freewill to say and do what they
want and go and learn what theywant when they want and express
themselves.
Typically, if you just tellthem, do this and don't do this,
that might not sink in as tothe why.
(30:12):
But when you can tell thatstory and you can help connect
those emotions to those triggerpoints within their nervous
system and then begin to see andfeel what you're saying, not
because there's this fence, thisguard up and someone's trying
to tell me what to do, butthey're picturing the moment in
(30:34):
what you're speaking towards andthey can feel the characters
that you're speaking to and thenthey understand.
So telling that story veryimpactful tactic in order to
help people understand thedifference between right and
wrong, while giving actionablefeedback in the moment to help
(30:57):
change future behavior.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
A hundred percent, and sometimes, just to
counterpoint that a little bit,the why works without the story,
so that when the story comes inyou know it's it, it's the
mixed media stew.
You got to flip it around alittle bit, but it, but, but the
and the why is just so vital inthis, in in, just like the
quickest way, because this, we,we do it like this right, and
(31:23):
you and you kind of set it up alittle bit, and, and so both of
those pieces together are huge.
Something that you touched on,that I know you're a big
proponent on, is, and if you'reconstantly reinforcing something
, whether it be positive or oryou know expectations or
anything, if you're reinforcingit maybe, then you throw a story
in the middle.
You're doing things maybe, thenyou throw a story in the middle
.
You're doing things Either way.
(31:44):
As a leader, you have thisconstant interaction and
communication and you teach.
Your frontline shift leads todo this.
Well then, if you need to coachsomebody, there's less of the
chance that they're putting upthat barrier you talked about
that.
This person's coming to correctme, because it's not always a
defense mechanism.
You're just expecting theinformation, because sometimes
it's very complimentary,sometimes it's very constructive
(32:06):
, whatever it is.
It's not always constructivewhen you're talking to me or
negative.
Therefore, I'm not putting upthis immediate block.
The most important thing toconnect with the other
individual and we learned this,building de-escalation training
(32:26):
was empathy, and the way thatyou get empathy is to see that
this person's on my side, sohaving something positive,
something that you agree on,whatever it is.
So this idea, this constantgeneral pressure, the person's
open to this idea that, whateverit is, you're here here, you
got my back, so I'm going tolisten to it which then allows
the story to resonate to land,the why to resonate to land.
(32:49):
But that constant coaching andstuff you touch on is huge for
the individual to not put upthose immediate defenses that we
do when we think thisindividual doesn't have my back.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
It really does boil down to how we start off those
conversations.
I have this one document thatsays say this, not that.
And yes, it is a piece of paper, but what it does is it helps
to teach people who don't knowhow to use their words.
Don't start off a conversationlike this.
(33:25):
Start it off like this versussaying man, you keep burning up
that sauce, billy, and everytime you burn up that sauce it
just sucks, because then we haveto redo it and we are losing
time on this order.
Versus, hey, billy, I've seenyour sauce come out great, but
I've noticed the past few timesit's been breaking.
(33:46):
Do me a favor, turn down theheat.
Let me see your sauces the nextfew times and let's make sure
that the heat control whatever.
But the start of it, the thestart of that conversation, is
going to either a have them hearevery other word or just hear,
billy, you suck, or they hearyou stating how to change future
(34:11):
behavior and the fact thatyou've seen them do better in
the past.
When they get used to hearingyou having that gun that type of
constructive feedback to whereit's not going straight negative
, you can always tie in thegreat moments, not always.
Every moment doesn't need a tiein of something great, but how
(34:33):
you start to that conversationwill either change future
behavior or cause them to pushback more, which, in place,
waste more time, kind of likeI'm doing with this conversation
.
This is your show, jason.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
I'm just your guest.
Well, right, right, exactly.
So let's pick up, let's unravelthat a little bit.
So 100%.
I love that idea of you'recoming out of the gates by
saying hey, we, I noticed thatyou've really been doing this
great.
But recently and recently andwe think about the ands and the
(35:10):
buts there's been a couple timeswhere it's been breaking.
I got a suggestion on what Ithink we can move through this.
Are you open to that?
You know, cool, let's try this.
And you want to do it in a kindof casual way and you, if you
can, and be be a person talkingto a person and not be the hall
monitor and formalize it and andblow it up to be bigger than it
(35:32):
needs to be and just kind ofhave that, that, that
conversation with them, and thatknow that you're looking out to
that 100.
Another thing in addition tothat, as you started it by, by
the way, side note, I hate thecompliment sandwich or I'm not a
fan of it, so it can't becontrived and inauthentic.
We're just talking about thelead in.
That shows the brain.
This person's on my side.
(35:53):
A little compliment, a littlesomething On the other side of
it.
Or, in addition, I was talkingto a leader, a as experienced as
I am.
I'm helping him kind of, likeyou know, off the books, just
kind of weekly, giving a call,talking to him, helping him on
track as some changes arehappening in their organization.
(36:13):
And he was supposed to give me,you know, an update on a thing
that I had asked, which was, youknow, set your weekly goals and
whatnot.
And he was like you know, hetalked about kind of, and he did
.
He got really busy and pulledaway a little bit and the little
old school in me because oldschool to old school, because
I'm not talking to a youngermanager who reports up I was
(36:33):
really about to come out and belike listen, man, drop my F-bomb
and go do it or don't do it,and I'm not talking to you, this
is my time and don't waste.
You know.
And that could have beeneffective in a particular point.
But I said to him all right, dome a favor.
I know you want to deliver thisbecause you're asking me to
help and you've appreciated this.
He's like, you know, I said.
He's like, yeah, I said so,something's getting in the way.
(36:56):
Let's kind of figure out what'sgetting in the way so we can
move through this.
And he's like well, I picked upa couple other.
You know we lost a DO directorof ops, and so now I'm driving
around to people's locations andI'm in the car far more than I
was before.
I was like okay, that I canwork with.
Here's what we're going to doOpen up ChatGPT and we're going
(37:17):
to work this way and you'regoing to set the list and talk
about it and ask it to populatea PDF for me at the start of the
week and then the end of theweek of how you did and along
the week, just go back to thatchat while you're in the car and
update it, and it will producethe report for me.
He's like I didn't think aboutthat.
I was like do you think thatwill solve where we are?
He's like, absolutely.
I was like, okay, well, if itdoesn't, we're going to move
(37:39):
through the next one or I'mstopping these conversations
Right.
Then the little old school mecame out.
It was and so we'll see whathappens on Monday how the call
goes.
It was that idea, though, ofsaying and going back to the
sauce or whatever, and sayingthis is, we know what standard
is.
We've we've agreed to somethingit's not hitting.
(38:03):
Talk to me about, like, what doyou think is getting in the way
?
Because sometimes your cookmight say, truthfully, these
burners suck, they'reinconsistent, or it happens.
Or, truthfully, this floor mator John keeps coming over.
Something gets in the way.
So open up that conversationand get buy-in, because they
might have the exact solution.
Either way, they take ownership, and that's that I love.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
That's money, that is .
That is pure gold.
Ok, now you your execution oftraining is, I can absolutely
say, miles above what people areused to training, whether in
the restaurant industry or not.
(38:44):
They are so used to seeing in2D and you are in 4D with a
shadow.
What is your long term visionof standardized training, not
just the top shelf of training?
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Not just the top shelf of training.
What is your vision ofstandardized box and ready to go
so that any restaurant couldturn it on and it's out of the
box, digitized, and you justbegin, like I said, 80% of it
there.
I started with compliancebecause we had some other issues
to tackle that we got into,then we moved into safety, then
we moved into leadershipdevelopment.
Now we're moving into whatyou're talking about and the way
(39:40):
what's really kind of crazy is,unless you're fine, fine, fine
dining and there's some specificthings aside from the menu.
Like I said, 80 to 90% of it isgoing to be the same for quick
service to quick service, fastcasual to fast casual and full
service to full service,training being digitized as we
(40:09):
speak on our platform or others,because we are not just about
the tech.
I want to be where people are.
I think is going to really help, at least for now, small to
medium-sized businesses navigatethe pitfalls that a lot of
people hit and then attractorganized people, because
organized people want to workfor organized environments.
Now let's talk about somethingwe're about to launch Just here,
(40:31):
just now spoken.
What's coming down the pipeline?
It's going to be the beginningthat leads to this next phase.
What we are launching is weArrow Up.
Now it's not there yet it'scoming because we're working
with a couple sponsors.
We Arrow Up is wearrowupcom.
(40:53):
It's a template, but you'll seewe are rolling out free micro
training to anyone who wants it,because restaurants are
America's number one first job,as we said, and a lot of these
people need the skills and thetools and whatnot to get going.
So there is the eight-minutemicro course of the basics, the
one-on-ones of working together.
(41:14):
Talks about showing up on time,not a way that's like you gotta
show up on time like peopletelling a story.
It's got slips, trips and falls.
It's got how these are lifeskills right.
Then we go into micro course, afour-minute course, five
minutes on communication how dowe speak, the words we use, as
we said, the difference betweencan you move and I'm behind
(41:35):
right here, and letting peopleknow, because those things
matter.
Kitchen commandments Some ofthe Ten Commandments of what we
expect from you working in thekitchen.
It's a minute and a half funlittle video attached to a
course that I absolutely love.
Kind of like, say, knife behindyou know hurt All that stuff and
(42:00):
when to taste the food and youknow, use the salt.
Manager feedback, cashiering101.
And what we're going to do isnow we're still selling our
compliance training to anyonewho is from small business to.
You know, our last one had 350units.
We got the best anti-harassmentsafety courses.
Come to ArrowUpTrainingcom andwe will, you know, get you the
(42:25):
right price for compliancetraining.
But for all of these otherthings we arrow up.
My vision is we're going to rollthis out, give it for free to
everybody, let them tell us whatthey need, start to build on it
.
We're not we're not giving awayall the secret sauce on
leadership We'll see, but somuch that's helping the
frontline staff.
(42:45):
And then my goal is to haveco-sponsors funding it with us
so that we can continue to givethis away and get the arrow up
way of doing things out toeverybody and build, get that
zero to one that restaurantsneed.
That's coming down the pipelinevery, very quickly, and then
(43:08):
it's going to be all communitybuilt right.
We're going to work with peopleto keep building this up.
So I'm really excited.
That will then be also a greatnet to see who wants to come on
the platform and do moretrackable training and task
management and standardoperating procedures.
But let's get this out toeverybody.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
You know I'm honored you shared that on this podcast.
I am Wow.
That would be awesome, Jason.
I mean that would be.
It really is a huge gap thatthe small to medium sized
restaurants out there have instating that we don't have the
(43:47):
budget in order to do training.
Right, I just need you to watchme and do what I do, but don't
say what I say, because I'm theboss, you know.
I mean that's not.
That's not real training andbeing able to, to offer that
free training, micro training toeveryone yes, I can see that as
(44:08):
the future.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
You like it.
It's cool.
Yeah, we'll see how it goes.
I mean, we'll see.
I can just tell you I'm excitedand we're calling it the
Restaurant Essentials.
And so the Restaurant Essentialsare the basics that are
universal across the board.
So we've established a cohesive, agreed upon language and set
of expectations.
Let's pass on the right.
So we've established a cohesive, agreed-upon language and set
of expectations.
Let's pass on the right.
You know, when we're walkingtowards each other that's how we
(44:31):
do it in the States when we'reright in the corner behind
picking things up off the floor.
All of those basics and down tothe idea of, yeah, the worst
shift you've ever experiencedmost likely is when a coworker
didn't show up.
So are you going to do that toyour other coworkers?
Right?
And so we just really start tobuild all that into it, and
(44:55):
that's part of it.
As Sean says, you knoweveryone's a media company.
I mean, you're an incrediblemedia company.
That's a piece of our mediacompany.
And these are, these are highdesign courses, high produce,
high design, micro training.
So it's a blanket way, goingback to the idea of let's just
do it the arrow up way and thenlaid a framework to the basics
and then every culture withinitself, because you've
(45:18):
established expectations andtrackability.
Well, now the culture is goingto live inside the experience
you're uniquely providing andwho the people are and what
music you're playing.
Right, our goal is to get tothe point that we don't tell you
what your culture is.
We just cover the basics so youcan actually curate the culture
and not be hamstrung anddealing with all the other crap.
That was manageable and really,if you just were proactive with
(45:42):
it, you were going to clearthat stuff out of the way so you
can get to the good stuff Ilove it.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, you, you, you definitely don't want to be the
one that uh helps to shape ordefine that culture.
That's going to come, naturally, with the owner, with the
founders, with the team.
It is uh managing the minutia,the basics, the essentials, in
order to help get to where thatculture can grow.
(46:09):
I have two more questions foryou.
Two more, okay, two more.
If you could sit at aleadership table with three
other leaders, whether alive orfrom history, who would you
choose, and why?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, I thought about this.
I appreciate you setting it up,and so here are three, because
I'm going to talk about threevery specific moments.
So these are maybe a littleheady and old school, for I
don't know.
I know the expansive oflisteners.
First is John F Kennedy, rightat the decision of the Bay of
Pigs time of to literally go towar or not go to war.
(46:48):
I want to be there and I wantto know, and I've read books on
it and whatnot, but I want toknow what.
How did you know to make thatdecision?
Because, at the end of the day,it's about deciding right and
it's about deciding, and that, Ithink, might be another
question coming up, so I'm goingto hold off on that.
(47:08):
The second would be MartinLuther King Jr, right when he
was done with the.
I have a dream speech, notbefore but right after Celebrate
.
Did you let excitement fill theroom?
Was it so serious and of amoment that you couldn't even
take the time for that?
You know what was the room likeright after that.
(47:32):
You know when people werehugging you and being like you
crush this, this thing is goingto live forever.
What was he like?
What was that Like?
Do you let that moment sink inor not sink in?
I really would love to havebeen in the room in that moment
and the third is Lincoln.
Abraham Lincoln, right beforegoing on stage for the
(47:55):
Gettysburg Address.
And that one again what wouldyou think that you're about to
accomplish?
You're on a battlefield.
You're honoring those that havelost the country's figuring out
if it's worth it or not worthit, but you have ideals and you
need to say something that'sgoing to inspire people to
continue to lose their lives andthe lives of their children to
believe in something bigger thanthemselves.
(48:17):
Tell me, right before you go on, aside from winning the war,
what does, what does successlook like and what?
What is the conviction that youfelt really comfortable?
Being able to tell people to dothis?
Why?
Why were you so sure that thiswas something that you could say
?
So I loved that question and Iappreciate you setting it up,
(48:39):
because it's not just a leaderand being able to pick their
brain.
But there was a moment in timefor each three of these leaders
and I want to know what the hellwas up at that moment.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
That's deep, that's, that's that is next level that
we don't tend to go back and domeaning.
(49:11):
Whenever we fail, we tend tolet it drag us through for the
next week, the next month, thenext year, 10 years.
We hold on to that negativemotion or emotion more than
something positive, whenever weget into the, whenever it
happened.
How come we don't really goback and hit the pause and
(49:32):
understand the why and actuallylearn from that and then mimic
that.
Not just mimic it, but make itsystematic to where we are able
to have those moments more oftenor spread them on to others.
So I love that.
Last question what's oneconversation in your career that
(49:54):
profoundly shaped how you leadtoday?
And I know you've had lots ofconversations, lots of great
ones, but what's one that comesto mind that says this one,
right here, is what helped buildthe foundation of how I do what
I do.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
The picking up a little bit on the last answer.
I was a young vice president ofa restaurant group, little
experience for my position, andI kind of took that position
from director up because Ineeded to control the ops, to
run service, and I was reallylooking to be democratic.
(50:34):
I had my team, I had mydirector of learning with me, I
had my director of operationswith me and a few other people,
and we're sitting in the roomand we're trying to figure out
how do we push the openings andwhat do we do, because the
money's, you know, demandingparticular things of us and I
and I went around the room and Igot everybody's opinion and
(50:58):
then, instead of just making adecision, I kept talking about
it and I asked a couple morequestions, not necessarily
because I needed theirinformation, but I was trying to
be a little bit more democraticand make sure everybody truly
felt heard and that I was notready to decide.
And so it was part mefloundering and part me also
(51:22):
wanting to be extremelydemocratic with the room.
And my director of learningsaid who was a GM with us and
worked our way up, look, doesn'tmatter, at this point You're
our boss, you just got to make adecision and we'll follow you.
And I was like, oh my God, andit hit me like a ton of bricks,
(51:43):
right.
Oh my God, and it hit me like aton of bricks, right.
People would rather followdecisiveness, even off a cliff
multiple times, than work undera leader who can't make up their
mind or who's trying to just beso democratic that everybody
(52:03):
feels heard.
And you want to make sureeveryone's heard and you
absolutely want to make surethat you get the right input,
especially from your seniorleadership, because they're
going to give you theinformation you need.
But then just decide.
Even if it's right or wrong.
The fact that you decided wasthe most important thing.
If it's time, it's time, anddon't wait a second longer.
(52:24):
Make sure you don't do it toosoon, but when it's time, far
too many leaders wait too long,myself included.
And that moment hit me rightover the head and I would like
to think since then, I'vepracticed that.
I've really, really practicedthat.
So be a decisive leader foryour team, I agree 100%.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Ted Lasso does a really good job.
I'm sure you know who Ted Lassois.
Ted Lasso does a really goodjob of using that democratic
coaching style in order to getthe voice of everyone in the
room that needs to have a say inthat choice, and then, but just
know that after you hear thosevoices, that you are still the
(53:15):
one that has to make that choice.
I also like how Amazon Bezoshas one of his rules of the only
people that need to be in theroom for a meeting is just
enough for to feed two pizzas.
If there's more people in theroom, that would eat more than
(53:39):
two boxes of pizza.
You have too many people at thetable.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
The only reason why how big of a pizza, I'd say
medium, medium.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Okay, the only reason why someone is in a meeting and
this is one of my rules theonly reason why someone is in a
meeting, you ask them to be in ameeting because if they weren't
there then decisions would notbe able to be made in that 30
(54:13):
minutes or 60 minutes.
If they are asked to be in ameeting and they have nothing to
do with any decision that isbeing made, that they're not the
core, then why are they in themeeting?
They can be told what the thingis going to happen afterwards,
so that's also one thing.
Now, my listeners I'm sure theyabsolutely loved a lot of what
(54:38):
you said.
Some of them know you.
A lot of them may not.
Where can they find out moreabout Jason Berkowitz?
Arrow Up Training, and we ArrowUp as well.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
So love it, Appreciate the opportunity.
I am on LinkedIn, jason DBerkowitz for LinkedIn.
You will find me there and bothJason's Brooks and Berkowitz
have LinkedIn presence.
We like to communicate with ourplatform and our people and our
community, arrowuptrainingcom,and we just put together a new
(55:15):
compliance tab.
Check that out Prettystraightforward, with pricing
and all of what we do and how wedeliver our compliance training
for restaurant operators byrestaurant operators.
So there's a reason to use that.
And then, depending on whenthis launches but let's say
(55:35):
October 1st by October 1st go towearrowupcom and then let us
know There'll be some emails andstuff.
Take, and then let us knowThere'll be some emails and
stuff.
Take some courses and let usknow what we should build next,
because that's what it's goingto be.
It's going to be communitysourced.
And then, a year from now,hopefully, we got American
(55:55):
Express and Coca-Cola and allthose people sponsoring this and
we're just going to keepbuilding.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Jason, thank you for sharing your insights and your
passion and your stories becausethey help to really connect
those dots.
And to everyone tuning in, ofcourse, if you like the episode
and it resonated with you, don'tjust say this was great,
Subscribe, leave a review, shareit with a leader that can
(56:21):
benefit from better training,stronger teams or even just
better stories.
You can visit jasonebrookscomfor more leadership tools and
resources.
And until next time, remember,manage, lead, coach, repeat.
Thank you so much, Jason.
Thanks for joining me.
Thank you.
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