How do you keep your team going when every second counts and the stakes couldn't be higher? Join us as Amanda Coleman, a press officer with the Greater Manchester Police at the time the incident occurred, shares her gripping experience managing the aftermath of the Manchester Arena terrorist attack. Amanda opens up about the initial misjudgment of staffing needs, the rapid burnout of her team, and the critical lessons learned from the delay in requesting help. She provides a vivid recount of the logistical challenges and the emotional challenges of coordinating political visits, family support, and public unrest.
Amanda doesn't hold back on discussing the emotional and logistical hurdles faced by senior leaders during such traumatic events. Discover the human touch she maintained even while delivering press briefings under immense pressure, and the surprising significance of a simple prop that provided emotional stability. Learn about the rare unity within the organization immediately following the attack, and the intricate balance needed to manage community relations alongside high-profile visits like that of Prime Minister Theresa May without disrupting critical operations.
The mental health toll on crisis responders and affected communities is a focal point in this episode. Amanda sheds light on the often-overlooked issue of PTSD among responders, sharing valuable lessons on recognizing the signs and encouraging individuals to seek help. Hear her insights on keeping affected individuals at the center of the response, the need for flexibility in crisis plans, and the importance of long-term support. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to understand the complexities of crisis management and the critical importance of mental health support.
We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Mueller (00:06):
And welcome back to the Leading in a Crisis podcast
.
On this podcast we talk allthings crisis management.
We deliver that throughinterviews, storytelling and
lessons learned from experiencedcrisis leaders.
I'm Tom Mueller.
With me again is Mark Mullen.
We're continuing ourconversation now with Amanda
Coleman, who was on duty as apublic information officer for
(00:30):
the Greater Manchester Policefollowing a terrorist attack at
an Ariana Grande concert inManchester, England.
Let's pick up the conversationnow.
Let's pick up the conversationnow.
Amanda, you talked about youknow sort of the scale of the
(00:50):
incident.
How was your staffing levels?
Were you able to scale up andadd people to support the effort
or was that a struggle for youin those early hours?
Amanda Coleman (01:06):
Oh gosh, where do I start with that?
That my, you know, massivelearning and I and what I say
all the time is, no matter howmany staff you think you've got,
you will never have enough todeal with any kind of serious
incident.
And I suppose my stupidity ofbeing quite complacent in that I
had reasonable size staffing soI was fairly confident we would
be able to last for, you know,five days, six days, um, bearing
(01:28):
in mind we were working 24hours a day.
Um, you run out of peoplereally quickly.
Um, yeah, I should have pressedthe button that night for for
the mutual aid kind ofadditional support that other
police service, uh, comms teamswould have have provided,
because there's always a delay,isn't there to get additional
people there, and I didn't.
(01:50):
And what it led to is somepeople really invested in
wanting to do the job, do thejob really well, who wouldn't
disconnect, who were kind ofreally burning themselves out
very, very quickly.
So, yeah, that night wasn't, um, overnight when it happened,
(02:10):
wasn't really a massive issue interms of like staffing levels.
There was, uh, four of us inovernight.
Um, because it was a lot aboutbeing proactive and just, you
know, kind of dealing with theinitial incident.
It was the next kind of daywhere it became way more
complicated, because you've gotpolitical visits, you've got,
you know, people wanted to docertain things, you've got kind
(02:32):
of family support aspects thatneeded to start to kick in, and
you know.
So that's when it got way morecomplicated.
So I spent most of that nightmessaging people to say who were
saying you want me to come in,jump, do you want me to come in?
To say no, please go to bed andtry and get some sleep because
I need you fresh for tomorrow.
Tomorrow's going to be hard.
So we were working 12-hourshifts.
(02:56):
12-hour shifts becomes like 13by the time you've got your
handovers at either end, gotyour handovers at either end.
Um, we, we definitely needed umpeople much more, uh, quickly
than they actually came and muchquicker than they came.
And and that was my, that wasmy learning point because, um,
we ended up getting people youknow, kind of a week into it.
(03:19):
Um, by that point I've got lotsof really tired staff because
you, you've inevitably got oneof the members of staff who was
ill at the morning of the arenaattack at the night he had
terrible kind of cold stroke,flu, and so we had to send him
home and he was ill for thefirst few days and when he came
(03:40):
back in towards the end of thatweek he was really apologetic.
I'm so sorry that, you know,I've not been here and you've
had to deal with and I'm like wereally need you because you're
fresh, you're a fresh set ofeyes, you can check what we've
done, you can see if we'vemissed anything.
Um, you can give your views,you know, and.
But it's hard when you've beenkind of part of all of what we
(04:03):
all expected to do was to bethere when something happened.
Um, so, yeah, I mean reallydifficult and trying to give
people time off, trying to, youknow, trying to do a rota.
I'm not good at working out whowe've got and where we put them
and the rotas.
I mean it's just not where mybrain is, so, um, so yeah,
(04:23):
staffing level was nowhere nearwhat we needed and and, um, we
ended up having to get extrahelp, but I should have asked
for it much, much quicker and arelated question how long did
you have to staff that way?
Marc Mullen (04:36):
Amanda a related question - how long did you have
to staff that way?
W as it a two week, three week,two month?
How long did you have tomaintain your office?
Amanda Coleman (04:43):
We used to work kind of long hours but not 24
hours.
Um, the metropolitan police inLondon have a 24-hour desk that
they set up that way because of,uh, the amount of things they
have to deal with.
Um, so, yeah, we were 24 hoursvirtually for the for the full
week, um, after which we thenreduced slightly to extended,
(05:03):
but slightly less than 24 hours.
But really I suppose, staffingwise, in terms of the work we
were doing, unless somethingthat came in was absolutely
urgent, critical, we didn'treally do any other work for
probably nearly a month you knowit's definitely three to nearly
four weeks because there werejust so many angles to it.
There was like the communityimpact, many angles to it.
(05:24):
There was like the communityimpact, um, you know, there was
hate crime incidents and tryingto deal with the kind of public
unrest on that level.
T here was a load of transportinfrastructure and kind of
nightmares because of where thethe arena is, on one of the main
railway lines and one of themain kind of transport hubs, and
there was all the family kindof support elements.
(05:46):
There was a big policeinvestigation.
That that, you know, kind ofwas was, um, just went on for
quite a while, quite a few yearsactually, before it came to
some kind of thing, some kind ofconclusion, um, so there's just
that, with so many elements toit, that it really takes a long
time.
And then when do you start tomove forward?
(06:08):
And I would say you can't dothat unless the community is
ready to move forward.
And whilst people talk about,well, we're in recovery mode,
kind of operationally fairlyearly on, to be fair.
Operationally fairly early on,to be fair.
Um, we were myself and then thekind of head of communications,
the, the manchester citycouncil, was saying we can't
(06:29):
talk that publicly becausenobody else is in the same space
.
So, um, it wasn't until therewas a kind of tribute concert, a
one love concert that was heldabout three, three and a half
weeks sort of afterwards, whenit almost like the mood shifted
a little bit and people feltlike we were going to start to,
um, to move forward in some way.
(06:51):
Um, I have to say I hated thatconcert because I was sat in the
office just just with a massivekind of you know turmoil, my
head and stomach going.
Oh, my God, you know, I reallyjust need this not to nothing to
happen.
You know, please, let it justjust be fine.
Tom Mueller (07:12):
A normal concert tonight, please.
Amanda Coleman (07:15):
Yeah, yeah, because because it's and it's
weird, because the first time Iwent back to a concert at the at
the arena, um, I found it veryunnerving.
It was really weird because itwas way after all, this had
happened.
But it's surprising kind of howit seeps into you and it sinks
into you and you know, andyou'll know, as you know, people
(07:36):
dealing with kind ofemergencies and crisis.
I kind of go to differentplaces and I see all the
problems in a way that Isometimes wish I wasn't seeing
all the problems.
But yeah, it's a difficult one,but yeah, I think the toll it
has on staff, and particularlycommunication staff, often gets
overlooked.
(07:58):
You recognise the impact it hasand policing in the UK has got
very good mental health andwellbeing support for officers
who are caught up in theimmediacy of something.
Health and well-being supportfor officers who are caught up
in the immediacy of something,um, but often other people, like
you know, communications kindof public information officers
kind of don't see them in thesame way.
And actually the informationthat you've learned, that you
(08:20):
see, the things you get to know,you can't ever unlearn or know.
So I think the support's reallyneeded there as much as it is
anywhere else.
Marc Mullen (08:31):
Right, well, and you dealt with the real dynamic,
which is a response inevitablyends.
They clean it up, they replacethe glass, they clear the way,
but people don't recover thatquickly and it takes time.
And so did you deal as theincident went on or as the
response went on?
(08:51):
Did you deal with the tensionbetween command center that
wanted to be done with it andyour understanding and knowledge
that it wasn't time to be donewith it yet?
Amanda Coleman (09:03):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I think that bit of thefocus that we always had on how
it was affecting people and andum the families and how they
were feeling, because that wasalways so central it was, it was
it was easy to go.
This is where people are.
We got a system where we wouldalways make sure that the if
(09:24):
there was any publicannouncement about anything,
that the bereaved families wouldalways get information first,
the if there was any publicannouncement about anything,
that the brief families wouldalways get information first.
So if there was any issue thatthey had or any concerns, you
know, they could raise things,and I think that's that's the
way it kind of helped to go.
This is where people are and Ithink that focus on um, those
people right at the center ofwhat had happened, um made it a
(09:46):
lot easier to argue.
Your case of this is where youcan't kind of airbrush and try
and move forward.
I think it's just a naturalthing for a response
organisation.
It's an emergency response.
We've done that bit.
Now we need to do this bit.
It's very kind of focused,isn't it, on getting through
those situations, but becausewe'd made the, the response
(10:10):
support, that kind of put thethe families at the heart of it.
Um, it was much easier to sayyou know, this is where the
people are.
Um, and things like socialmedia much as they're a
nightmare in lots of respectsfor emergency response um, they
are really helpful in terms ofkind of where people are, what
people are feeling and howthings are kind of developing.
(10:32):
So I think, again, it's usingthat information to feed it back
to support what you're tryingto say if response officers are
not seeing the same situation.
Marc Mullen (10:43):
So did your response leaders catch on to
that, so that you didn't have toworry about them standing
before the mic and sayingsomething like they want their
life back or anything like that?
Amanda Coleman (10:55):
yeah, no, no, that was never an issue.
I say because all ourstatements always started with
with a kind of reference to thepeople who were affected.
Uh, right from that, uh fromthat first night, right the way
through, that was always thestarting point or whatever we
said.
So you know.
So it made it a lot easier thenfor people not to say that.
And also, I think we were allkind of really heavily
(11:15):
personally invested in wantingto, to, to help do our best to
get through the really difficulttime that, yeah, it became your
life and actually that you know, I suppose for me there's quite
a privilege for being able toin some way, hopefully help
through some of that.
Tom Mueller (11:37):
Amanda, I know the chief constable conducted the
press briefings that you hadovernight at 3 am and then again
at 7 am.
How easy or challenging is itto prep that sort of crisis
leader to do the press statement, and do they get time to
(11:57):
rehearse it a little bit, or doyou hand them a statement, they
step out and deliver it?
Amanda Coleman (12:04):
Yeah, I mean every situation is different.
With with this it was quitedifficult because there was some
really clear boundaries aboutwhat we could and couldn't say
about what had happened becauseof the nature of the incident.
So we would have normally havedone, uh, some, some kind of
statement to the media and thenanswer questions.
We were in a position,particularly that first night,
we couldn't answer questionsbecause we knew all the
(12:26):
questions would be about theareas that we couldn't talk
about.
Um, so it was very much aboutkind of reading um, a prepared,
agreed statement, focused in theright way, um, and that kind of
covered as much as we could.
Um, rapid I mean it's seniorpolice officers, particularly
when they get to that sort ofchief constable level have dealt
(12:49):
with lots of different things.
So to a certain extent they'requite used to dealing with
challenging situations.
I think the issue with this wasit was the very personal kind of
emotional element um, you know,it's happened on your watch,
you're the person in charge andthis has happened, which adds a
kind of different dimension toit.
It was, we did run through it,but you also want it to be as
(13:13):
natural as possible.
You don't want it to feel asthough there's no emotion in
there and actually it's abouttrying to be human and that's
what we were.
You know we tried to do, sothere wasn't a huge amount of
rehearsal.
I think one of the mostchallenging things and it's
always the little things youremember was we didn't want to
have like a scrap of paper whenit was being filmed because it
(13:34):
would look really, you know,kind of look a bit ropey.
So we were searching around totry and find some kind of folder
or something which would allowthem to hold the piece of paper
and not look, I mean, it's justthese weird things that you end
up having to deal with and itand we used to have um sort of a
, a booklet surround thing forcertificates for long service
(13:57):
and good conduct and all thesethings, and we ended up having
to kind of repurpose one ofthose we found in the office, um
, which became the kind of youknow the prop that I think
helped him to be able to deliverwhat he needed to deliver.
So it became a bit of like asort of I suppose a bit of an
emotional support.
So where's my folder?
I need my folder, and it waslike that for the first sort of
(14:19):
you know few press briefings,because it's a tough one.
It's a really tough one becauseyou've got a lot of things
you've got to wrestle with as asenior leader.
Because you've got a lot ofthings you've got to wrestle
with as a senior leader.
You've got so much to try andgrapple with the impact of it,
the national kind of pressureyou get in terms of government
leaders wanting to speak to you,the drive to be visible to the
(14:43):
officers who were involved inall the response.
I mean it really is a huge,huge challenge.
But yeah, it's weird thatthat's the one thing I kind of
remember from that night.
Marc Mullen (14:54):
Did you have any challenges with unofficial
spokespeople, the people in thecommunity or the experts in
their fields th at would step upand start to take get the media
attention and start deliveringa separate message.
Or were you able to control themessage fairly tightly?
Amanda Coleman (15:12):
yeah, I wouldn't say we could control the
message, because I don't think,I don't think anybody can, um,
but I do think this was one ofthose really rare occasions
where, because of what hadhappened, because of the loss of
life, because of the trauma toparticularly lots of young
people and um, and as well asfamilies and actually we didn't
(15:32):
have a lot of of that from fromum any source really um, and
historically as myself smilinghistorically the police can be
quite leaky in terms ofinformation, you know, leaking
out into media sources, and thiswas one of those occasions
where I don't remember any ofthat actually happening because
(15:55):
everybody was too invested intrying to make do the best they
could at that point in time.
That it is a very weirdsituation where, in in the
aftermath of the horrificevening and then into the next
few days and weeks, theorganization came together in a
way I'd never seen it.
It was a really positiveexperience for quite a few weeks
(16:20):
until, inevitably, these thingsnever last, do they?
Infighting and problems andissues and all the rest of it.
But there was a nice periodwhere I think there wasn't that
leaking of information, therewasn't that attempt to cause any
problems and I think peopleexternally were very supportive.
(16:45):
The same, it was challenging onthe kind of community relations
and hate crime issue because ofthe different communities, that
, um, that we had and trying tobalance this with some horrific
things, that messages and state,the things that would come
across social media around it,um, but you have to try and
navigate that the best way youcan because just the emotion's
(17:07):
so high, isn't it, whensomething, uh, something happens
amanda, in a minute I'm goingto just kind of ask you to
summarize your key lessonslearned from a communications
perspective.
Tom Mueller (17:19):
I wanted to just ask you briefly - I believe the
Prime Minister, Theresa May,came out to the site the next
day following the explosion, andso now you've got senior
government leaders coming intotown.
That is a whole differentdynamic to your response and
(17:39):
your plan for the day.
How did you guys deal with itand did it really affect your
day?
Amanda Coleman (17:48):
Oh, yeah, yeah, um, and it's difficult because I
understand that politicians andsenior politicians have to be
seen to be there supporting,doing things.
You know, I, I totallyunderstand that, and they get
heavily criticized when they'renot, don't they?
So I kind of understand that.
I think the challenge that thatwe had was it wasn't it was
(18:11):
less than 24 hours after it hadhappened, it was the kind of
afternoon after, uh, the attackhad happened the evening before
and it brought with it extrawork, extra responsibilities,
extra challenges, things thatneeded sorting out, liaison with
you know comms, people from,from the government, a time when
(18:32):
you're already short-staffedand you've already got like a
million other things to do, um,and, unfortunately, like with a
lot, a lot of things, um, ifit's a problem with the media,
even if it's not to do with, ifit's a kind of practically,
where are they going to stand,it becomes the press office's
job, because you're the mediapeople and this is the media, so
(18:52):
you'll do it.
When actually it's not, it'slike a front of house, you know
operational, where do you wantthem to stand to not be a
problem to the.
You know access to the, to thebuilding.
So, yeah, it's it.
It's not the best, it does addmassive challenges.
Um, I I do understand why ithappens and there's a real
positive to.
(19:13):
I mean, in the days thatfollowed it wasn't necessarily
kind of straight away, but inthe days that followed, the
Queen at the time and otherroyal members royal family came
to visit hospitals and also tothe police headquarters to see
some of the responders and thatwas a massive boost to people.
So I kind of I do understandthat was a massive boost to
people.
So I kind of I do understandthat.
I think the challenge we hadwas just how quickly they made
(19:37):
their way from from London up toManchester, for that, which we
had never anticipated, thatwasn't part of the plan and
became another aspect of thework that you have to try and
deal with.
Tom Mueller (19:50):
Do you recall - was there an election cycle running
at that point?
Amanda Coleman (19:56):
ctually I can't remember that.
No, I don't think there was likea national election, but we had
we just 10 days before theattack happened.
I think it was about 10 daysbefore we'd had elections for a
local mayor because they weresetting up a new kind of mayoral
approach, a bit like they havein London and he'd only been in
post um literally like justover a week when the attack
(20:18):
happened.
I mean, he's a very seasonedpolitician and the guy who's
elected Andy Burnhams, and he'dbeen a local MP and we obviously
you know there was a reasonableworking relationship there
anyway, um, but that just shows,and you just never know when
these things are going to happen, and new political leaders have
to be ready for whateverhappens the minute they've been
(20:41):
elected, and sometimes I don'tthink we recognize that at all
of holding elected office rightis you need to be prepared
quickly and you need to liaisewith your key emergency services
and build those relationshipsand all of that and for some
(21:01):
it's not a priority, but glad tosee it worked out well in this
case.
Marc Mullen (21:06):
You have to learn the art of being there without
getting in the way, which isvery difficult.
Amanda Coleman (21:15):
I think there's a whole new episode of your
podcast just on that.
You know being there but notgetting in the way.
Marc Mullen (21:25):
Too bad, the people that need to hear it won't
listen to it Real quick.
You mentioned earlier about howlong it took one of your staff
to finally realize they needhelp.
How, how have you since thendealt with the whole issue of
ptsd and the challenges of evenas you yourself said, you walk
in the stadium and you're onedge.
(21:46):
So is there something else thatshould be considered or planned
or prepared early on, becauseyou know it's coming?
Amanda Coleman (21:57):
Yeah, absolutely .
I know.
When I'm doing any work withany organization, I say you know
your crisis plan needs toinclude where you're going to
provide support.
How quickly can you get thatsupport there for people?
Because some people will haveit after the first shift.
Some people, like, will takeyear.
You know, a year, even longerum to to admit, and you can't
(22:19):
push people to take help.
You know, no matter you do, youdo the best you can.
Um and the organization thepolice that was was really quite
um good at recognizing the, theemotional impact that it would
have had.
Um and, as I say, even to thepoint of um, including the
communications team, albeit, youknow, they didn't quite realize
(22:40):
that.
You know, one of the pressofficers who'd been dealing with
the families um who'd beenbereaved was in a briefing with
a, with a welfare officer andwith a few others, and he was
like I know you're not frontline staff, but you know you can
still be affected, and she justkind of stopped you can I just
tell you what I've been doingfor the last week, you know,
speaking to families who've justjust been bereaved in this
(23:01):
horrific way, and he was likeI'm so sorry because they don't
think people recognized the kindof roles that we were doing.
So for me that's essential.
It's got to be a strand of anykind of crisis response.
You've got to get the messagesout to the workforce to make
sure they know how to accesshelp, and we need to encourage a
(23:23):
conversation about it.
And I think that was the bigthing was actually trying to get
people to comfortable sayingI'm struggling, I need some help
, and not feeling as thoughthey've got to be that sort of
you know.
Well, you know it's like me.
I used to think I could dealwith anything.
I could deal with anything.
I'd seen so much stuff it wasfine I could deal with it and I
didn't.
And it took me a while torecognise I didn't.
(23:46):
But in the end I accessed somereally good counselling which
helped me to kind of workthrough it.
But you, you know, we've got tomake it easier for people to to
access you know support and torecognize what they need it is.
It's an interesting statisticthat I kind of always remember.
That was something like 10 ofthe workforce had access some
(24:08):
sort of help within the first umsix months or so, um six months
to a year.
And if you think about the sizeof the workforce and the amount
of people who would have beennot necessarily on duty that
night and dealing with things,it shows the kind of impact it
can have.
So, yeah, you know we all needto get better at being
(24:29):
comfortable with beingvulnerable and recognizing we're
not indestructible.
Tom Mueller (24:37):
Yeah, we normally think of PTSD, as you know, for
our military service members anddealing with that, but issues
like this have, you know, asimilar kind of impact even for,
you know private companies thathave to deploy people out into
communities.
For you know private companiesthat have to deploy people out
into communities, right, andthey're, you know, talking to
(25:01):
people every day who areimpacted by an oil spill or a
chemical release or whatever itis, and they're angry and your
staff are dealing with thatemotion and they're under attack
.
You know, day after day, beingin the communities, all of that
stuff takes a toll.
Amanda Coleman (25:13):
I think one of the challenges as well,
certainly in the uk, that therethat stuff takes the tolls.
I think one of the challengesas well it's certainly in the UK
that there's been, and I don'tthink we've, I don't think we've
got a plan yet for it and isthat organizations like
emergency response are gettingreally good at providing that
support.
But when you think about thepeople who were in the middle of
it, the people who have beenbereaved, when it's not
(25:34):
necessarily the support's notthere in the same way, which is
rightly kind of really upsettingfor them, and you think, oh,
hang on a minute, how come thosepeople that were responding on
that night have got all thissupport, but I've not?
So we've got to get thatsupport to those affected people
(25:54):
in the same way as we do to theresponders.
Tom Mueller (25:58):
Well, Amanda, if you don't mind, just take a
minute and summarize for us sortof your key lessons learned
that you think would beworthwhile for younger
generation of responders comingup behind us to take away from
your experience here.
Amanda Coleman (26:17):
Yeah, the biggest thing for me is always
to keep focused on the peoplewho are affected and make sure
that your response never losesight of them and where they are
and what they need.
And that may mean rewritingplans, um, and focusing things
in a slightly different way.
(26:38):
Um, the resource in which wementioned um.
You know you will always needmore support.
Make sure that you've workedout where that's going to come
from.
I know from an emergencyresponse position you get.
You know there's a network ofhow you get additional support
businesses.
It's not always as easy toidentify.
So I think it's aboutrecognizing where you can get
(27:00):
that support from um and um andthe and the well-being element.
So not losing sight of um, howmuch of an impact it can have on
people and over an extendedperiod of time.
So make sure that that supportis in place and that people can
access it pretty quickly and foran extended period of time as
(27:22):
well.
Tom Mueller (27:24):
Amanda, thank you so much for taking time out of
your busy day to share yourexperiences with us from that
incident back in 2017.
Really appreciate your sharingthose lessons learned.
And, for folks who areinterested in Amanda's books,
check the podcast notes andwe'll leave some links to her
(27:47):
publications out there that youcan check out if you'd like to.
So, amanda, thank you again.
Amanda Coleman (27:52):
Thanks very much , Tom.
Thanks Marc.
Tom Mueller (27:55):
All right, and that's going to do it for this
episode of the Leading in aCrisis podcast.
We really appreciate you beingwith us today, so thanks again
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in a Crisis podcast.
And welcome back to the Leading in a Crisis podcast
.
On this podcast we talk allthings crisis management.
We deliver that throughinterviews, storytelling and
lessons learned from experiencedcrisis leaders.
I'm Tom Mueller.
With me again is Mark Mullen.
We're continuing ourconversation now with Amanda
Coleman, who was on duty as apublic information officer for
(00:30):
the Greater Manchester Policefollowing a terrorist attack at
an Ariana Grande concert inManchester, England.
Let's pick up the conversationnow.
Let's pick up the conversationnow.
Amanda, you talked about youknow sort of the scale of the
(00:50):
incident.
How was your staffing levels?
Were you able to scale up andadd people to support the effort
or was that a struggle for youin those early hours?
Amanda Coleman (01:06):
Oh gosh, where do I start with that?
That my, you know, massivelearning and I and what I say
all the time is, no matter howmany staff you think you've got,
you will never have enough todeal with any kind of serious
incident.
And I suppose my stupidity ofbeing quite complacent in that I
had reasonable size staffing soI was fairly confident we would
be able to last for, you know,five days, six days, um, bearing
(01:28):
in mind we were working 24hours a day.
Um, you run out of peoplereally quickly.
Um, yeah, I should have pressedthe button that night for for
the mutual aid kind ofadditional support that other
police service, uh, comms teamswould have have provided,
because there's always a delay,isn't there to get additional
people there, and I didn't.
(01:50):
And what it led to is somepeople really invested in
wanting to do the job, do thejob really well, who wouldn't
disconnect, who were kind ofreally burning themselves out
very, very quickly.
So, yeah, that night wasn't, um, overnight when it happened,
(02:10):
wasn't really a massive issue interms of like staffing levels.
There was, uh, four of us inovernight.
Um, because it was a lot aboutbeing proactive and just, you
know, kind of dealing with theinitial incident.
It was the next kind of daywhere it became way more
complicated, because you've gotpolitical visits, you've got,
you know, people wanted to docertain things, you've got kind
(02:32):
of family support aspects thatneeded to start to kick in, and
you know.
So that's when it got way morecomplicated.
So I spent most of that nightmessaging people to say who were
saying you want me to come in,jump, do you want me to come in?
To say no, please go to bed andtry and get some sleep because
I need you fresh for tomorrow.
Tomorrow's going to be hard.
So we were working 12-hourshifts.
(02:56):
12-hour shifts becomes like 13by the time you've got your
handovers at either end, gotyour handovers at either end.
Um, we, we definitely needed umpeople much more, uh, quickly
than they actually came and muchquicker than they came.
And and that was my, that wasmy learning point because, um,
we ended up getting people youknow, kind of a week into it.
(03:19):
Um, by that point I've got lotsof really tired staff because
you, you've inevitably got oneof the members of staff who was
ill at the morning of the arenaattack at the night he had
terrible kind of cold stroke,flu, and so we had to send him
home and he was ill for thefirst few days and when he came
(03:40):
back in towards the end of thatweek he was really apologetic.
I'm so sorry that, you know,I've not been here and you've
had to deal with and I'm like wereally need you because you're
fresh, you're a fresh set ofeyes, you can check what we've
done, you can see if we'vemissed anything.
Um, you can give your views,you know, and.
But it's hard when you've beenkind of part of all of what we
(04:03):
all expected to do was to bethere when something happened.
Um, so, yeah, I mean reallydifficult and trying to give
people time off, trying to, youknow, trying to do a rota.
I'm not good at working out whowe've got and where we put them
and the rotas.
I mean it's just not where mybrain is, so, um, so yeah,
(04:23):
staffing level was nowhere nearwhat we needed and and, um, we
ended up having to get extrahelp, but I should have asked
for it much, much quicker and arelated question how long did
you have to staff that way?
Marc Mullen (04:36):
Amanda a related question - how long did you have
to staff that way?
W as it a two week, three week,two month?
How long did you have tomaintain your office?
Amanda Coleman (04:43):
We used to work kind of long hours but not 24
hours.
Um, the metropolitan police inLondon have a 24-hour desk that
they set up that way because of,uh, the amount of things they
have to deal with.
Um, so, yeah, we were 24 hoursvirtually for the for the full
week, um, after which we thenreduced slightly to extended,
(05:03):
but slightly less than 24 hours.
But really I suppose, staffingwise, in terms of the work we
were doing, unless somethingthat came in was absolutely
urgent, critical, we didn'treally do any other work for
probably nearly a month you knowit's definitely three to nearly
four weeks because there werejust so many angles to it.
There was like the communityimpact, many angles to it.
(05:24):
There was like the communityimpact, um, you know, there was
hate crime incidents and tryingto deal with the kind of public
unrest on that level.
T here was a load of transportinfrastructure and kind of
nightmares because of where thethe arena is, on one of the main
railway lines and one of themain kind of transport hubs, and
there was all the family kindof support elements.
(05:46):
There was a big policeinvestigation.
That that, you know, kind ofwas was, um, just went on for
quite a while, quite a few yearsactually, before it came to
some kind of thing, some kind ofconclusion, um, so there's just
that, with so many elements toit, that it really takes a long
time.
And then when do you start tomove forward?
(06:08):
And I would say you can't dothat unless the community is
ready to move forward.
And whilst people talk about,well, we're in recovery mode,
kind of operationally fairlyearly on, to be fair.
Operationally fairly early on,to be fair.
Um, we were myself and then thekind of head of communications,
the, the manchester citycouncil, was saying we can't
(06:29):
talk that publicly becausenobody else is in the same space
.
So, um, it wasn't until therewas a kind of tribute concert, a
one love concert that was heldabout three, three and a half
weeks sort of afterwards, whenit almost like the mood shifted
a little bit and people feltlike we were going to start to,
um, to move forward in some way.
(06:51):
Um, I have to say I hated thatconcert because I was sat in the
office just just with a massivekind of you know turmoil, my
head and stomach going.
Oh, my God, you know, I reallyjust need this not to nothing to
happen.
You know, please, let it justjust be fine.
Tom Mueller (07:12):
A normal concert tonight, please.
Amanda Coleman (07:15):
Yeah, yeah, because because it's and it's
weird, because the first time Iwent back to a concert at the at
the arena, um, I found it veryunnerving.
It was really weird because itwas way after all, this had
happened.
But it's surprising kind of howit seeps into you and it sinks
into you and you know, andyou'll know, as you know, people
(07:36):
dealing with kind ofemergencies and crisis.
I kind of go to differentplaces and I see all the
problems in a way that Isometimes wish I wasn't seeing
all the problems.
But yeah, it's a difficult one,but yeah, I think the toll it
has on staff, and particularlycommunication staff, often gets
overlooked.
(07:58):
You recognise the impact it hasand policing in the UK has got
very good mental health andwellbeing support for officers
who are caught up in theimmediacy of something.
Health and well-being supportfor officers who are caught up
in the immediacy of something,um, but often other people, like
you know, communications kindof public information officers
kind of don't see them in thesame way.
And actually the informationthat you've learned, that you
(08:20):
see, the things you get to know,you can't ever unlearn or know.
So I think the support's reallyneeded there as much as it is
anywhere else.
Marc Mullen (08:31):
Right, well, and you dealt with the real dynamic,
which is a response inevitablyends.
They clean it up, they replacethe glass, they clear the way,
but people don't recover thatquickly and it takes time.
And so did you deal as theincident went on or as the
response went on?
(08:51):
Did you deal with the tensionbetween command center that
wanted to be done with it andyour understanding and knowledge
that it wasn't time to be donewith it yet?
Amanda Coleman (09:03):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I think that bit of thefocus that we always had on how
it was affecting people and andum the families and how they
were feeling, because that wasalways so central it was, it was
it was easy to go.
This is where people are.
We got a system where we wouldalways make sure that the if
(09:24):
there was any publicannouncement about anything,
that the bereaved families wouldalways get information first,
the if there was any publicannouncement about anything,
that the brief families wouldalways get information first.
So if there was any issue thatthey had or any concerns, you
know, they could raise things,and I think that's that's the
way it kind of helped to go.
This is where people are and Ithink that focus on um, those
people right at the center ofwhat had happened, um made it a
(09:46):
lot easier to argue.
Your case of this is where youcan't kind of airbrush and try
and move forward.
I think it's just a naturalthing for a response
organisation.
It's an emergency response.
We've done that bit.
Now we need to do this bit.
It's very kind of focused,isn't it, on getting through
those situations, but becausewe'd made the, the response
(10:10):
support, that kind of put thethe families at the heart of it.
Um, it was much easier to sayyou know, this is where the
people are.
Um, and things like socialmedia much as they're a
nightmare in lots of respectsfor emergency response um, they
are really helpful in terms ofkind of where people are, what
people are feeling and howthings are kind of developing.
(10:32):
So I think, again, it's usingthat information to feed it back
to support what you're tryingto say if response officers are
not seeing the same situation.
Marc Mullen (10:43):
So did your response leaders catch on to
that, so that you didn't have toworry about them standing
before the mic and sayingsomething like they want their
life back or anything like that?
Amanda Coleman (10:55):
yeah, no, no, that was never an issue.
I say because all ourstatements always started with
with a kind of reference to thepeople who were affected.
Uh, right from that, uh fromthat first night, right the way
through, that was always thestarting point or whatever we
said.
So you know.
So it made it a lot easier thenfor people not to say that.
And also, I think we were allkind of really heavily
(11:15):
personally invested in wantingto, to, to help do our best to
get through the really difficulttime that, yeah, it became your
life and actually that you know, I suppose for me there's quite
a privilege for being able toin some way, hopefully help
through some of that.
Tom Mueller (11:37):
Amanda, I know the chief constable conducted the
press briefings that you hadovernight at 3 am and then again
at 7 am.
How easy or challenging is itto prep that sort of crisis
leader to do the press statement, and do they get time to
(11:57):
rehearse it a little bit, or doyou hand them a statement, they
step out and deliver it?
Amanda Coleman (12:04):
Yeah, I mean every situation is different.
With with this it was quitedifficult because there was some
really clear boundaries aboutwhat we could and couldn't say
about what had happened becauseof the nature of the incident.
So we would have normally havedone, uh, some, some kind of
statement to the media and thenanswer questions.
We were in a position,particularly that first night,
we couldn't answer questionsbecause we knew all the
(12:26):
questions would be about theareas that we couldn't talk
about.
Um, so it was very much aboutkind of reading um, a prepared,
agreed statement, focused in theright way, um, and that kind of
covered as much as we could.
Um, rapid I mean it's seniorpolice officers, particularly
when they get to that sort ofchief constable level have dealt
(12:49):
with lots of different things.
So to a certain extent they'requite used to dealing with
challenging situations.
I think the issue with this wasit was the very personal kind of
emotional element um, you know,it's happened on your watch,
you're the person in charge andthis has happened, which adds a
kind of different dimension toit.
It was, we did run through it,but you also want it to be as
(13:13):
natural as possible.
You don't want it to feel asthough there's no emotion in
there and actually it's abouttrying to be human and that's
what we were.
You know we tried to do, sothere wasn't a huge amount of
rehearsal.
I think one of the mostchallenging things and it's
always the little things youremember was we didn't want to
have like a scrap of paper whenit was being filmed because it
(13:34):
would look really, you know,kind of look a bit ropey.
So we were searching around totry and find some kind of folder
or something which would allowthem to hold the piece of paper
and not look, I mean, it's justthese weird things that you end
up having to deal with and itand we used to have um sort of a
, a booklet surround thing forcertificates for long service
(13:57):
and good conduct and all thesethings, and we ended up having
to kind of repurpose one ofthose we found in the office, um
, which became the kind of youknow the prop that I think
helped him to be able to deliverwhat he needed to deliver.
So it became a bit of like asort of I suppose a bit of an
emotional support.
So where's my folder?
I need my folder, and it waslike that for the first sort of
(14:19):
you know few press briefings,because it's a tough one.
It's a really tough one becauseyou've got a lot of things
you've got to wrestle with as asenior leader.
Because you've got a lot ofthings you've got to wrestle
with as a senior leader.
You've got so much to try andgrapple with the impact of it,
the national kind of pressureyou get in terms of government
leaders wanting to speak to you,the drive to be visible to the
(14:43):
officers who were involved inall the response.
I mean it really is a huge,huge challenge.
But yeah, it's weird thatthat's the one thing I kind of
remember from that night.
Marc Mullen (14:54):
Did you have any challenges with unofficial
spokespeople, the people in thecommunity or the experts in
their fields th at would step upand start to take get the media
attention and start deliveringa separate message.
Or were you able to control themessage fairly tightly?
Amanda Coleman (15:12):
yeah, I wouldn't say we could control the
message, because I don't think,I don't think anybody can, um,
but I do think this was one ofthose really rare occasions
where, because of what hadhappened, because of the loss of
life, because of the trauma toparticularly lots of young
people and um, and as well asfamilies and actually we didn't
(15:32):
have a lot of of that from fromum any source really um, and
historically as myself smilinghistorically the police can be
quite leaky in terms ofinformation, you know, leaking
out into media sources, and thiswas one of those occasions
where I don't remember any ofthat actually happening because
(15:55):
everybody was too invested intrying to make do the best they
could at that point in time.
That it is a very weirdsituation where, in in the
aftermath of the horrificevening and then into the next
few days and weeks, theorganization came together in a
way I'd never seen it.
It was a really positiveexperience for quite a few weeks
(16:20):
until, inevitably, these thingsnever last, do they?
Infighting and problems andissues and all the rest of it.
But there was a nice periodwhere I think there wasn't that
leaking of information, therewasn't that attempt to cause any
problems and I think peopleexternally were very supportive.
(16:45):
The same, it was challenging onthe kind of community relations
and hate crime issue because ofthe different communities, that
, um, that we had and trying tobalance this with some horrific
things, that messages and state,the things that would come
across social media around it,um, but you have to try and
navigate that the best way youcan because just the emotion's
(17:07):
so high, isn't it, whensomething, uh, something happens
amanda, in a minute I'm goingto just kind of ask you to
summarize your key lessonslearned from a communications
perspective.
Tom Mueller (17:19):
I wanted to just ask you briefly - I believe the
Prime Minister, Theresa May,came out to the site the next
day following the explosion, andso now you've got senior
government leaders coming intotown.
That is a whole differentdynamic to your response and
(17:39):
your plan for the day.
How did you guys deal with itand did it really affect your
day?
Amanda Coleman (17:48):
Oh, yeah, yeah, um, and it's difficult because I
understand that politicians andsenior politicians have to be
seen to be there supporting,doing things.
You know, I, I totallyunderstand that, and they get
heavily criticized when they'renot, don't they?
So I kind of understand that.
I think the challenge that thatwe had was it wasn't it was
(18:11):
less than 24 hours after it hadhappened, it was the kind of
afternoon after, uh, the attackhad happened the evening before
and it brought with it extrawork, extra responsibilities,
extra challenges, things thatneeded sorting out, liaison with
you know comms, people from,from the government, a time when
(18:32):
you're already short-staffedand you've already got like a
million other things to do, um,and, unfortunately, like with a
lot, a lot of things, um, ifit's a problem with the media,
even if it's not to do with, ifit's a kind of practically,
where are they going to stand,it becomes the press office's
job, because you're the mediapeople and this is the media, so
(18:52):
you'll do it.
When actually it's not, it'slike a front of house, you know
operational, where do you wantthem to stand to not be a
problem to the.
You know access to the, to thebuilding.
So, yeah, it's it.
It's not the best, it does addmassive challenges.
Um, I I do understand why ithappens and there's a real
positive to.
(19:13):
I mean, in the days thatfollowed it wasn't necessarily
kind of straight away, but inthe days that followed, the
Queen at the time and otherroyal members royal family came
to visit hospitals and also tothe police headquarters to see
some of the responders and thatwas a massive boost to people.
So I kind of I do understandthat was a massive boost to
people.
So I kind of I do understandthat.
I think the challenge we hadwas just how quickly they made
(19:37):
their way from from London up toManchester, for that, which we
had never anticipated, thatwasn't part of the plan and
became another aspect of thework that you have to try and
deal with.
Tom Mueller (19:50):
Do you recall - was there an election cycle running
at that point?
Amanda Coleman (19:56):
ctually I can't remember that.
No, I don't think there was likea national election, but we had
we just 10 days before theattack happened.
I think it was about 10 daysbefore we'd had elections for a
local mayor because they weresetting up a new kind of mayoral
approach, a bit like they havein London and he'd only been in
post um literally like justover a week when the attack
(20:18):
happened.
I mean, he's a very seasonedpolitician and the guy who's
elected Andy Burnhams, and he'dbeen a local MP and we obviously
you know there was a reasonableworking relationship there
anyway, um, but that just shows,and you just never know when
these things are going to happen, and new political leaders have
to be ready for whateverhappens the minute they've been
(20:41):
elected, and sometimes I don'tthink we recognize that at all
of holding elected office rightis you need to be prepared
quickly and you need to liaisewith your key emergency services
and build those relationshipsand all of that and for some
(21:01):
it's not a priority, but glad tosee it worked out well in this
case.
Marc Mullen (21:06):
You have to learn the art of being there without
getting in the way, which isvery difficult.
Amanda Coleman (21:15):
I think there's a whole new episode of your
podcast just on that.
You know being there but notgetting in the way.
Marc Mullen (21:25):
Too bad, the people that need to hear it won't
listen to it Real quick.
You mentioned earlier about howlong it took one of your staff
to finally realize they needhelp.
How, how have you since thendealt with the whole issue of
ptsd and the challenges of evenas you yourself said, you walk
in the stadium and you're onedge.
(21:46):
So is there something else thatshould be considered or planned
or prepared early on, becauseyou know it's coming?
Amanda Coleman (21:57):
Yeah, absolutely .
I know.
When I'm doing any work withany organization, I say you know
your crisis plan needs toinclude where you're going to
provide support.
How quickly can you get thatsupport there for people?
Because some people will haveit after the first shift.
Some people, like, will takeyear.
You know, a year, even longerum to to admit, and you can't
(22:19):
push people to take help.
You know, no matter you do, youdo the best you can.
Um and the organization thepolice that was was really quite
um good at recognizing the, theemotional impact that it would
have had.
Um and, as I say, even to thepoint of um, including the
communications team, albeit, youknow, they didn't quite realize
(22:40):
that.
You know, one of the pressofficers who'd been dealing with
the families um who'd beenbereaved was in a briefing with
a, with a welfare officer andwith a few others, and he was
like I know you're not frontline staff, but you know you can
still be affected, and she justkind of stopped you can I just
tell you what I've been doingfor the last week, you know,
speaking to families who've justjust been bereaved in this
(23:01):
horrific way, and he was likeI'm so sorry because they don't
think people recognized the kindof roles that we were doing.
So for me that's essential.
It's got to be a strand of anykind of crisis response.
You've got to get the messagesout to the workforce to make
sure they know how to accesshelp, and we need to encourage a
(23:23):
conversation about it.
And I think that was the bigthing was actually trying to get
people to comfortable sayingI'm struggling, I need some help
, and not feeling as thoughthey've got to be that sort of
you know.
Well, you know it's like me.
I used to think I could dealwith anything.
I could deal with anything.
I'd seen so much stuff it wasfine I could deal with it and I
didn't.
And it took me a while torecognise I didn't.
(23:46):
But in the end I accessed somereally good counselling which
helped me to kind of workthrough it.
But you, you know, we've got tomake it easier for people to to
access you know support and torecognize what they need it is.
It's an interesting statisticthat I kind of always remember.
That was something like 10 ofthe workforce had access some
(24:08):
sort of help within the first umsix months or so, um six months
to a year.
And if you think about the sizeof the workforce and the amount
of people who would have beennot necessarily on duty that
night and dealing with things,it shows the kind of impact it
can have.
So, yeah, you know we all needto get better at being
(24:29):
comfortable with beingvulnerable and recognizing we're
not indestructible.
Tom Mueller (24:37):
Yeah, we normally think of PTSD, as you know, for
our military service members anddealing with that, but issues
like this have, you know, asimilar kind of impact even for,
you know private companies thathave to deploy people out into
communities.
For you know private companiesthat have to deploy people out
into communities, right, andthey're, you know, talking to
(25:01):
people every day who areimpacted by an oil spill or a
chemical release or whatever itis, and they're angry and your
staff are dealing with thatemotion and they're under attack
.
You know, day after day, beingin the communities, all of that
stuff takes a toll.
Amanda Coleman (25:13):
I think one of the challenges as well,
certainly in the uk, that therethat stuff takes the tolls.
I think one of the challengesas well it's certainly in the UK
that there's been, and I don'tthink we've, I don't think we've
got a plan yet for it and isthat organizations like
emergency response are gettingreally good at providing that
support.
But when you think about thepeople who were in the middle of
it, the people who have beenbereaved, when it's not
(25:34):
necessarily the support's notthere in the same way, which is
rightly kind of really upsettingfor them, and you think, oh,
hang on a minute, how come thosepeople that were responding on
that night have got all thissupport, but I've not?
So we've got to get thatsupport to those affected people
(25:54):
in the same way as we do to theresponders.
Tom Mueller (25:58):
Well, Amanda, if you don't mind, just take a
minute and summarize for us sortof your key lessons learned
that you think would beworthwhile for younger
generation of responders comingup behind us to take away from
your experience here.
Amanda Coleman (26:17):
Yeah, the biggest thing for me is always
to keep focused on the peoplewho are affected and make sure
that your response never losesight of them and where they are
and what they need.
And that may mean rewritingplans, um, and focusing things
in a slightly different way.
(26:38):
Um, the resource in which wementioned um.
You know you will always needmore support.
Make sure that you've workedout where that's going to come
from.
I know from an emergencyresponse position you get.
You know there's a network ofhow you get additional support
businesses.
It's not always as easy toidentify.
So I think it's aboutrecognizing where you can get
(27:00):
that support from um and um andthe and the well-being element.
So not losing sight of um, howmuch of an impact it can have on
people and over an extendedperiod of time.
So make sure that that supportis in place and that people can
access it pretty quickly and foran extended period of time as
(27:22):
well.
Tom Mueller (27:24):
Amanda, thank you so much for taking time out of
your busy day to share yourexperiences with us from that
incident back in 2017.
Really appreciate your sharingthose lessons learned.
And, for folks who areinterested in Amanda's books,
check the podcast notes andwe'll leave some links to her
(27:47):
publications out there that youcan check out if you'd like to.
So, amanda, thank you again.
Amanda Coleman (27:52):
Thanks very much , Tom.
Thanks Marc.
Tom Mueller (27:55):
All right, and that's going to do it for this
episode of the Leading in aCrisis podcast.
We really appreciate you beingwith us today, so thanks again
for joining us and if you likewhat you're hearing, please like
and subscribe to the podcastand tell your friends and
colleagues about us as well.
We'll see you again soon foranother episode of the Leading
in a Crisis podcast.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!