February 16, 2025 • 24 mins
Discover the secrets of crisis management on social media with our special guest, Destin Singleton, a seasoned corporate communications expert. Recognized as one of the top 20 business management podcasts in Texas, we're thrilled to bring you Destin's insights on effectively navigating localized incidents. From discussing the merits of creating temporary local social media channels to sharing strategies for engaging communities, this episode promises to equip you with the knowledge to build trust and maintain strong stakeholder relationships. Destin also recounts a riveting tale of handling a sudden marine crisis in Anchorage, highlighting the indispensable role of preparation and media relationships in crisis situations.
Explore the delicate balance between technology and old-school methods in crisis communication, particularly within a Joint Information Center. We dive into the benefits and challenges of using digital tools like Teams and Jetty while emphasizing the need to keep internal teams informed, illustrated by the American Airlines incident. Understand the importance of strategic hashtag creation and controlled narratives during a crisis, and the value of understanding Public Information Assistance Team roles. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to enhance their crisis response strategies and build robust communication frameworks.
We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leading in a
Crisis podcast.
Happy to have you with us today.
As you know, on this podcast weshare stories from the front
lines of crisis management andwe're happy to have a frontline
crisis expert with us today.
So we're continuing ourconversation with Destin
Singleton, a very experiencedcorporate communications
(00:30):
professional, who's going toshare some of her stories with
us today.
And, of course, mark Mullen, myco-host, is with us as well.
Hey, I have a news bulletin totell you, because I just got a
notification yesterday that ourpodcast has made it into the top
20 best Texas managementpodcasts.
(00:52):
Data mining company calledFeedspot.
They aggregate data and sharedata on a contract basis, but
they also track podcasts, and sothey just notified us that we
were number 13 in the state ofTexas for their business
management podcast.
So kudos to the team and to allour listeners who helped make
(01:13):
that possible.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
That is truly amazing and I do love your podcast.
I am an avid listener from thebeginning and I you know I
recognize and fully empathizewith situations that your other
guests have been through, so Ihope this is just as useful for
one of them.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Terrific.
So, destin, I want to talk toyou a little bit about social
media, and particularly in acrisis situation.
We all know social media isjust taking on a life of its own
.
There are so many aspects tothis and it can be daunting
actually when you think about it, because you know your company
(01:58):
probably has a Facebook page ortwo, you've probably got an
Instagram account, certainlyyou've got a Twitter X account
and you know who knows what elseis coming account.
So there's all of those thingsgoing on and you know you want
to, I guess, leverage all ofthose when you get into a crisis
(02:20):
situation, but you know it canbe a little daunting to work
through that.
So, as you think about dealingwith social media in a crisis,
particularly, you know, a local,more localized type incident,
what are your thoughts on bestpractices for doing that?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, thank you.
So definitely, what I counselmy clients essentially is in a
crisis, you need to be listening, you need to be engaging and
you need to be, you know,publishing yourself, and so,
like, as long as you're kind ofthinking through and are able
(02:59):
and prepared to do those threethings, you're in a much better
place.
Prepared to do those threethings, you're in a much better
place and I actually, with myclients, run them through a
social simulation tool thathelps them do that in a safe way
when we are doing tabletopexercises.
However, when you're talkingabout kind of the landscape as a
(03:21):
whole, so say, you are amultinational company, publicly
traded large, but yet you havean incident in a smaller
community that is reallyimpacting that community.
Yes, it might have a broaderreputational impact, but it may
(03:41):
not affect all of yourstakeholders.
So one thing that is a bit of abest practice here is to, you
know, really focus on thehyperlocal, if that's where the
impact is, focus there.
So there are multiple ways ofdoing that and we can talk about
a few of those in a bit.
But it may not be that you wantto use your global social media
(04:04):
channels, but it may not bethat you want to use your global
social media channels.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
You know that's always an interesting bit of a
conundrum, right?
Because, yeah, you may not,because your corporate channel
is probably globally focused.
So you're talking tostakeholders all over the world
when you're dealing, when you'reposting to that channel, and
it's probably run by theheadquarters social media team.
But, yeah, when you get downinto more localized events, you
(04:31):
need probably a different handleor different account that
you're posting from for that.
So would you counsel then localfacilities to kind of have
their own Facebook pages, theirown Twitter accounts and that
for posting locally?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
There's yes and no, so it really depends on their
broader reputation program inthat community.
If there is a need to have yourown channels locally and you
have the staff and the abilityto maintain it and, you know,
utilize it fully.
(05:10):
You don't want to establishsomething and then leave it cold
.
What you want is to build thattrust and that stakeholder base
through those channels.
So if it exists, that's great.
If it doesn't, and you findyourself in a situation where
there is a need for hyperlocalcommunication, you can certainly
(05:32):
establish them.
If there's a unified command,then it would potentially make
sense for the unified command toestablish, you know, local
channels.
If there is not, then theincident right could be just a
command, not a unified command,and so you know, in that way you
can turn it on and turn it backoff, you know, as the need
(05:55):
arises.
So you know this is part of thebeauty of the web.
You have the ability to createand decommission as needed.
And then, of course, you cancertainly use your broader
channels to push to the local.
You know your broader globalstuff.
(06:16):
But essentially the otherbiggest thing, in addition to
publishing, it's about listeningand engaging in the channels
that already exist, meetingpeople where they are right.
That's just basic stakeholderengagement.
And so if you know you're wetalked a bit about just a moment
(06:39):
ago an organization that mightalready have those existing you
know local Facebook page, forexample, then they potentially
are already connected to theother local Facebook pages or
community groups, or it might bethe neighborhood that is right
next to your facility, and allof those are really important.
(07:02):
These are the people that live,work and play in your community
.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So, having those existing relationships, or at
least knowing where they are andhaving in your crisis plan- and
this can be a little daunting,particularly know then the
(07:31):
complexity of posting to thoseaccounts can become quite
intense, right, and so trying toleverage company messaging with
there could be a problem, butif it's internet specific, then
a unified command type socialmedia account makes perfect
sense.
The other thing I've seen is,well, where I've seen it most
(07:54):
effective is like municipalitiesand police departments, right,
who are getting more and moreastute about using social media
to keep people informed, and Ihave a case study that I share
with clients about a chemicalrelease from a small chemical
facility up in Atchison, kansas,some years ago, and it forced a
(08:19):
shelter in place, kind ofacross the town, and people were
trying to figure out well, whatabout the schools?
Are the kids okay, are theybeing evacuated, what's
happening?
And so the community's socialmedia page, through City Hall,
became sort of the clearinghousefor that, as well as the police
(08:39):
department, and people wereposting information onto the
municipality Facebook page, andit just became that natural
sharing channel for all thatinformation channel, for all
that information.
So that I think one of thechallenges, though, is figuring
(08:59):
out where are people going to dothat, right?
Which place are they going?
Is it a Facebook accountsomewhere.
Is it Twitter, and who'srunning that?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, and that's part of having it in your crisis
plan.
You know, evaluating thatstakeholder landscape ahead of
an event is key.
Just your, tom, your example, Imean I in my, you know, smaller
community, there was a lockdownat the local high school and if
(09:30):
there was a place to findinformation, there's a local
newspaper, but it's daily.
You know there's in which a lotof communities don't even have
Right.
So, let's face it, there's newseverywhere.
So we're lucky that we have apaper, but they did not.
They did not publish, they didnot post anything.
(09:53):
It really was the local policedepartment and and and anytime
something happens in thiscommunity, the first place
people go is to the socials,right, and in particular,
facebook, instagram, that sortof thing.
So, and there are communitygroups within these channels
that ideally, you would bealready be joined, you would
already be engaging, and Inoticed that here in Texas,
(10:15):
utilities, right, they've beenthrough many issues of their own
since that winter storm Uri andbeen through many since, and
what I see is that utilitiesjoin and engage in local groups
(10:35):
in order to be listening andengaging in these groups ahead
of time and so taking a pagefrom seeing what happened there
and really again meeting yourstakeholders where they are
meeting your stakeholders wherethey are.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
How do you feel about the issue of hashtags and
trying to establish a hashtagfor your particular incident?
I mean, I hear conversationspro and con on that and in my
view, I'd like to try and setthe hashtag and it'd be, you
know, x incident response asopposed to company explodes,
(11:19):
community hashtag, right, and sowhat's your thoughts on dealing
with the whole hashtag thing?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I again pros and cons .
I do so.
It's an aggregator.
A hashtag is an aggregator,right, so that you're allowed.
That allows you to hashtag Xresponse, um, or you know
whatever the the name of of theincident, or or um, you know, it
could be hashtag, you knowplaying, or whatever it is Right
, um, and so that aggregator isan opportunity.
(11:54):
It's an opportunity for you tolisten and to hear the
conversations that are happeningabout you.
So huge pros.
But you can't control whatpeople are using.
So it's great to be able to tryto.
If you are establishing yourown unified command or command
socials, establish your hashtagsthen as well, and you could
(12:17):
just call it the name of theresponse, just as you're calling
the name of your new X account,and allow you know, like, if
you can set that tone yourself,then that's a great way to do it
.
But again, it's an aggregator.
You cannot control how peopleare using them or what they're
using.
But it's an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah Right, your aggregator may not get visited
like their aggregator does.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
True?
Yeah, that's absolutely true,and you need to scan and find
out which is the most popularhashtag, which is getting the
most traffic.
So, but it's to me it's alwaysan interesting conversation.
Try and set a hashtag that'sless inflammatory than what you
know.
A group that's anti yourcompany might set up.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Hey, what other quick topic I'd like to just cover
with you.
Destin, while we have, you isjust thinking about, you know,
the first hours of a crisisresponse and walking in cold to
a situation and getting thingsorganized and all of that.
It can be very daunting,especially if you haven't been
(13:34):
going through exercises andpracticing this.
But I wonder if you have a youknow, a particular story that
you could share around thechallenges that you would face
walking in cold to a crisisresponse.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, we talked a bit earlier in another episode
about practice, practice,practice, and not only pulling
your plans out and evaluatingand practicing those, but also
fully understanding andpracticing how ICS works, what
(14:11):
your role is in ICS, andpracticing multiple roles,
because you never know whereyou're going to be deployed.
And so I'll tell you just aquick story of what happened to
me in 2012.
It was New Year's Eve and I hadI was out camping with my
(14:34):
family and I get a call.
It was about 10, 11 am on NewYear's Eve and I had two small
kids.
So they said hey, can you be ona plane by two or three in the
afternoon?
And I was about an hour or soaway.
So we packed up, packed up thelittles and got in the car.
(14:56):
I found a friend who had awinter coat because I was
heading to Anchorage.
So it was essentially.
I was working for Shell at thetime and there was a marine
incident.
There was a vessel that hadbroken from its moors and was a
potential reputation, you know,issue for the organization, as
(15:20):
well as wanting to make surethat everyone was safe.
So I was being sent in as amedia spokesperson.
I was to be the APIO for media.
But so I borrow the winter coat, I have a hastily packed bag
and I walk on and on an airplane.
It was a private jet because,no, you couldn't get a
(15:42):
commercial flight on New Year'sEve and get you there quickly.
So it was myself and a coupleof other responders and we were
on our way.
No briefing, there was no time.
No briefing, there was no time.
Um, there was limited people onthe ground, um and um, and they
were preparing for the firstpress conference.
(16:03):
So no briefing, only a minorupdate, while we were boarding,
about the current situation, um,and then I, you know, got there
, dropped my bag, um, and walkedinto the Joint Information
Center and I was handedliterally handed a ringing phone
(16:24):
.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Glad you're here.
Yeah, hold this hand grenade,will you?
We'll get you the pin later.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yes, and so I answered and I said, if you
wouldn't mind, please hold justfor a moment.
And thankfully I had been aspokesperson for the company.
I dealt with media.
I had lots of, I had lots ofrelationships with media of
(16:51):
preparation, know your role andunderstand where you would most
likely play and understand howthat role works in ICS.
And then essentially briefedmyself by utilizing the status
(17:11):
board and, you know, looking atthe, the, you know the 209s, you
know using all of the ICS, likelooking at what the current
situation is.
And they even had rumors on theboard.
Right, they had.
And so I just looked and ittook me 30 seconds to be ready
(17:32):
enough to answer that phone.
So just utilize the tools thatexist and trust your instincts.
I was a spokesperson, so I hadtalked to media plenty.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Let me take you down a little sidebar here, just
around status boards, because,as you know, companies are using
more and more technology andvirtual command posts to you
know, to manage incidents.
And you know I grew up whereyou walk in the room and you've
got post-it notes on the wall.
(18:10):
Each is a different statusboard of you know facts that you
know rumors, you know aproduction schedule for your
press releases and FAQs and allof that and it's very analog
kind of approach.
But you can stand in the roomand get the big picture of how
things are operating.
(18:30):
Right.
Your incident commander couldwalk in the room and instantly
get a big picture view of whatyou're working on, how efficient
you are managing resources hereand that.
But you know it seems likethat's, you know, going by the
wayside, I guess, when you'reusing teams to manage a response
(18:52):
.
What's your take on thetechnology versus analog
approach?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Ah, um, I also grew up in the analog world, um, so I
, I get it and that was ananalog situation.
But I have seen, um, uh, myclients and I have seen, and,
and I've also with the, you know, iep type software.
(19:22):
I've seen it work, but inparticular for a joint
information center, it is superhelpful to have you know both
and having staff dedicated tomaking sure that it is up to
date and being utilized fully.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, Mark.
Any thoughts on this one?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I'm just agreeing with what I hear.
There's no point in addingsomething to that comment,
except one thing I think we needto remember for the JIC and
I've seen this in real eventsand in exercises both we make
the assumption that all of ouraudiences are external, but the
truth is, the JIC is a source ofinformation about the total
(20:07):
response and what's going on forthe people in the room too.
And that's where, again, do iton teams, if you want, or do it
by covering the window into theroom you're working from, but
don't forget that you have aninternal audience as well.
And, by the way, that'ssomething in that American
Airlines accident they made veryclear that they were speaking
(20:29):
and informing with theiremployees, which I just think is
really critical.
And the one challenge with Teamsmy own experience is it's a
great tool, but everyorganization tends to set it up
the way they want to set it up.
So the first thing you have tolearn is is where are you
putting the 201?
Where are you putting the 209?
(20:50):
, and so on and Dustin, realquick too.
Another thing on this is thinkabout how much things have
changed since 2012.
If that happened today, youwould have been on the phone on
the plane, with your laptop open, looking at anything you needed
to look at, and so we live in aworld where we can get
information and deal with itmuch more rapidly.
(21:11):
We have to remember thateverybody around us does too,
though.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Does too, too, though Does too Exactly, exactly, and
you know, another big part ofthe lesson there, too, was not
only we talked about practice,talked about trusting your
instincts.
We talked about, you know,status board as one of the tools
, but you know, we're alsoutilizing a system that allowed
you kind of like a CRM for thiskind of situation.
(21:38):
There are multiple tools, butone of them is currently called
Jetty Right, so that's a systemthat a lot of my clients use and
that is super helpful, becauseyou can walk into a situation
where you have a shift changeand everyone knows which
stakeholders have called, whatthey've been told.
You have a list of the peoplethat you could reach out to.
(22:01):
So I mean, there's you know, toutilize the tools that are out
there and be prepared, betrained on them.
And also another big lesson andI was lucky to be working for a
company like Shell, who had Ihad trained multiple times a
year.
I had trained with the CoastGuard.
(22:21):
I knew my stakeholders, I knewthe people that might be sitting
next to me.
You know it was, you know, abig lesson about ensuring that
you have those, that you havethose relationships, and I also
had worked with, you know thePIAT, which is the Public
(22:45):
Information Assistance Team.
Yeah, so this is the CoastGuard's kind of rapid response
team where, within 24 hours, ifit's a large enough maritime
incident, they will send um atleast two people um to support,
um, to to work in thecommunications department.
Um, it just an incredible team,and I had worked with them
(23:07):
before I had understood theirpriorities, um, and so that's uh
, you know just, you knowputting yourself in that
situation ahead of time, becauseyou know, as you know, having a
role like a, you know anexternal role like a, like a
spokesperson for a largeorganization, it's just part of
your job, and being ready forthat hand grenade was that it
(23:31):
was.
It was great, well, good youknow there.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
We should spend an episode or two just walking
through the refresh of and bestpractices for running a JIC or
PIO team and how to keep thingsmoving Right that's what the
exercises are for an episode anddive into that at some point
(23:57):
too, because it's always a goodrefresh for listeners just to
think through how this is.
You know what are the differentsections under the PIO and what
are they all supposed to do,and how do I manage?
You know status boards andtracking media inquiries.
It's a very complex type ofsituation and it takes a little
practice to do it.
Well, Destin, thank you again,Mark.
(24:18):
Thank you as always, sir, Goodto see you.
And that's going to do it forthis episode of the Leading in a
Crisis podcast.
We do thank you for joining us.
If you want to reach out to thepodcast, you can email me at
tom at leadinginacrisiscom, andwe'll see you soon for another
episode, Take care.
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leading in a
Crisis podcast.
Happy to have you with us today.
As you know, on this podcast weshare stories from the front
lines of crisis management andwe're happy to have a frontline
crisis expert with us today.
So we're continuing ourconversation with Destin
Singleton, a very experiencedcorporate communications
(00:30):
professional, who's going toshare some of her stories with
us today.
And, of course, mark Mullen, myco-host, is with us as well.
Hey, I have a news bulletin totell you, because I just got a
notification yesterday that ourpodcast has made it into the top
20 best Texas managementpodcasts.
(00:52):
Data mining company calledFeedspot.
They aggregate data and sharedata on a contract basis, but
they also track podcasts, and sothey just notified us that we
were number 13 in the state ofTexas for their business
management podcast.
So kudos to the team and to allour listeners who helped make
(01:13):
that possible.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
That is truly amazing and I do love your podcast.
I am an avid listener from thebeginning and I you know I
recognize and fully empathizewith situations that your other
guests have been through, so Ihope this is just as useful for
one of them.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Terrific.
So, destin, I want to talk toyou a little bit about social
media, and particularly in acrisis situation.
We all know social media isjust taking on a life of its own
.
There are so many aspects tothis and it can be daunting
actually when you think about it, because you know your company
(01:58):
probably has a Facebook page ortwo, you've probably got an
Instagram account, certainlyyou've got a Twitter X account
and you know who knows what elseis coming account.
So there's all of those thingsgoing on and you know you want
to, I guess, leverage all ofthose when you get into a crisis
(02:20):
situation, but you know it canbe a little daunting to work
through that.
So, as you think about dealingwith social media in a crisis,
particularly, you know, a local,more localized type incident,
what are your thoughts on bestpractices for doing that?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, thank you.
So definitely, what I counselmy clients essentially is in a
crisis, you need to be listening, you need to be engaging and
you need to be, you know,publishing yourself, and so,
like, as long as you're kind ofthinking through and are able
(02:59):
and prepared to do those threethings, you're in a much better
place.
Prepared to do those threethings, you're in a much better
place and I actually, with myclients, run them through a
social simulation tool thathelps them do that in a safe way
when we are doing tabletopexercises.
However, when you're talkingabout kind of the landscape as a
(03:21):
whole, so say, you are amultinational company, publicly
traded large, but yet you havean incident in a smaller
community that is reallyimpacting that community.
Yes, it might have a broaderreputational impact, but it may
(03:41):
not affect all of yourstakeholders.
So one thing that is a bit of abest practice here is to, you
know, really focus on thehyperlocal, if that's where the
impact is, focus there.
So there are multiple ways ofdoing that and we can talk about
a few of those in a bit.
But it may not be that you wantto use your global social media
(04:04):
channels, but it may not bethat you want to use your global
social media channels.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
You know that's always an interesting bit of a
conundrum, right?
Because, yeah, you may not,because your corporate channel
is probably globally focused.
So you're talking tostakeholders all over the world
when you're dealing, when you'reposting to that channel, and
it's probably run by theheadquarters social media team.
But, yeah, when you get downinto more localized events, you
(04:31):
need probably a different handleor different account that
you're posting from for that.
So would you counsel then localfacilities to kind of have
their own Facebook pages, theirown Twitter accounts and that
for posting locally?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
There's yes and no, so it really depends on their
broader reputation program inthat community.
If there is a need to have yourown channels locally and you
have the staff and the abilityto maintain it and, you know,
utilize it fully.
(05:10):
You don't want to establishsomething and then leave it cold
.
What you want is to build thattrust and that stakeholder base
through those channels.
So if it exists, that's great.
If it doesn't, and you findyourself in a situation where
there is a need for hyperlocalcommunication, you can certainly
(05:32):
establish them.
If there's a unified command,then it would potentially make
sense for the unified command toestablish, you know, local
channels.
If there is not, then theincident right could be just a
command, not a unified command,and so you know, in that way you
can turn it on and turn it backoff, you know, as the need
(05:55):
arises.
So you know this is part of thebeauty of the web.
You have the ability to createand decommission as needed.
And then, of course, you cancertainly use your broader
channels to push to the local.
You know your broader globalstuff.
(06:16):
But essentially the otherbiggest thing, in addition to
publishing, it's about listeningand engaging in the channels
that already exist, meetingpeople where they are right.
That's just basic stakeholderengagement.
And so if you know you're wetalked a bit about just a moment
(06:39):
ago an organization that mightalready have those existing you
know local Facebook page, forexample, then they potentially
are already connected to theother local Facebook pages or
community groups, or it might bethe neighborhood that is right
next to your facility, and allof those are really important.
(07:02):
These are the people that live,work and play in your community
.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So, having those existing relationships, or at
least knowing where they are andhaving in your crisis plan- and
this can be a little daunting,particularly know then the
(07:31):
complexity of posting to thoseaccounts can become quite
intense, right, and so trying toleverage company messaging with
there could be a problem, butif it's internet specific, then
a unified command type socialmedia account makes perfect
sense.
The other thing I've seen is,well, where I've seen it most
(07:54):
effective is like municipalitiesand police departments, right,
who are getting more and moreastute about using social media
to keep people informed, and Ihave a case study that I share
with clients about a chemicalrelease from a small chemical
facility up in Atchison, kansas,some years ago, and it forced a
(08:19):
shelter in place, kind ofacross the town, and people were
trying to figure out well, whatabout the schools?
Are the kids okay, are theybeing evacuated, what's
happening?
And so the community's socialmedia page, through City Hall,
became sort of the clearinghousefor that, as well as the police
(08:39):
department, and people wereposting information onto the
municipality Facebook page, andit just became that natural
sharing channel for all thatinformation channel, for all
that information.
So that I think one of thechallenges, though, is figuring
(08:59):
out where are people going to dothat, right?
Which place are they going?
Is it a Facebook accountsomewhere.
Is it Twitter, and who'srunning that?
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, and that's part of having it in your crisis
plan.
You know, evaluating thatstakeholder landscape ahead of
an event is key.
Just your, tom, your example, Imean I in my, you know, smaller
community, there was a lockdownat the local high school and if
(09:30):
there was a place to findinformation, there's a local
newspaper, but it's daily.
You know there's in which a lotof communities don't even have
Right.
So, let's face it, there's newseverywhere.
So we're lucky that we have apaper, but they did not.
They did not publish, they didnot post anything.
(09:53):
It really was the local policedepartment and and and anytime
something happens in thiscommunity, the first place
people go is to the socials,right, and in particular,
facebook, instagram, that sortof thing.
So, and there are communitygroups within these channels
that ideally, you would bealready be joined, you would
already be engaging, and Inoticed that here in Texas,
(10:15):
utilities, right, they've beenthrough many issues of their own
since that winter storm Uri andbeen through many since, and
what I see is that utilitiesjoin and engage in local groups
(10:35):
in order to be listening andengaging in these groups ahead
of time and so taking a pagefrom seeing what happened there
and really again meeting yourstakeholders where they are
meeting your stakeholders wherethey are.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
How do you feel about the issue of hashtags and
trying to establish a hashtagfor your particular incident?
I mean, I hear conversationspro and con on that and in my
view, I'd like to try and setthe hashtag and it'd be, you
know, x incident response asopposed to company explodes,
(11:19):
community hashtag, right, and sowhat's your thoughts on dealing
with the whole hashtag thing?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
I again pros and cons .
I do so.
It's an aggregator.
A hashtag is an aggregator,right, so that you're allowed.
That allows you to hashtag Xresponse, um, or you know
whatever the the name of of theincident, or or um, you know, it
could be hashtag, you knowplaying, or whatever it is Right
, um, and so that aggregator isan opportunity.
(11:54):
It's an opportunity for you tolisten and to hear the
conversations that are happeningabout you.
So huge pros.
But you can't control whatpeople are using.
So it's great to be able to tryto.
If you are establishing yourown unified command or command
socials, establish your hashtagsthen as well, and you could
(12:17):
just call it the name of theresponse, just as you're calling
the name of your new X account,and allow you know, like, if
you can set that tone yourself,then that's a great way to do it
.
But again, it's an aggregator.
You cannot control how peopleare using them or what they're
using.
But it's an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah Right, your aggregator may not get visited
like their aggregator does.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
True?
Yeah, that's absolutely true,and you need to scan and find
out which is the most popularhashtag, which is getting the
most traffic.
So, but it's to me it's alwaysan interesting conversation.
Try and set a hashtag that'sless inflammatory than what you
know.
A group that's anti yourcompany might set up.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Hey, what other quick topic I'd like to just cover
with you.
Destin, while we have, you isjust thinking about, you know,
the first hours of a crisisresponse and walking in cold to
a situation and getting thingsorganized and all of that.
It can be very daunting,especially if you haven't been
(13:34):
going through exercises andpracticing this.
But I wonder if you have a youknow, a particular story that
you could share around thechallenges that you would face
walking in cold to a crisisresponse.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, we talked a bit earlier in another episode
about practice, practice,practice, and not only pulling
your plans out and evaluatingand practicing those, but also
fully understanding andpracticing how ICS works, what
(14:11):
your role is in ICS, andpracticing multiple roles,
because you never know whereyou're going to be deployed.
And so I'll tell you just aquick story of what happened to
me in 2012.
It was New Year's Eve and I hadI was out camping with my
(14:34):
family and I get a call.
It was about 10, 11 am on NewYear's Eve and I had two small
kids.
So they said hey, can you be ona plane by two or three in the
afternoon?
And I was about an hour or soaway.
So we packed up, packed up thelittles and got in the car.
(14:56):
I found a friend who had awinter coat because I was
heading to Anchorage.
So it was essentially.
I was working for Shell at thetime and there was a marine
incident.
There was a vessel that hadbroken from its moors and was a
potential reputation, you know,issue for the organization, as
(15:20):
well as wanting to make surethat everyone was safe.
So I was being sent in as amedia spokesperson.
I was to be the APIO for media.
But so I borrow the winter coat, I have a hastily packed bag
and I walk on and on an airplane.
It was a private jet because,no, you couldn't get a
(15:42):
commercial flight on New Year'sEve and get you there quickly.
So it was myself and a coupleof other responders and we were
on our way.
No briefing, there was no time.
No briefing, there was no time.
Um, there was limited people onthe ground, um and um, and they
were preparing for the firstpress conference.
(16:03):
So no briefing, only a minorupdate, while we were boarding,
about the current situation, um,and then I, you know, got there
, dropped my bag, um, and walkedinto the Joint Information
Center and I was handedliterally handed a ringing phone
(16:24):
.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Glad you're here.
Yeah, hold this hand grenade,will you?
We'll get you the pin later.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yes, and so I answered and I said, if you
wouldn't mind, please hold justfor a moment.
And thankfully I had been aspokesperson for the company.
I dealt with media.
I had lots of, I had lots ofrelationships with media of
(16:51):
preparation, know your role andunderstand where you would most
likely play and understand howthat role works in ICS.
And then essentially briefedmyself by utilizing the status
(17:11):
board and, you know, looking atthe, the, you know the 209s, you
know using all of the ICS, likelooking at what the current
situation is.
And they even had rumors on theboard.
Right, they had.
And so I just looked and ittook me 30 seconds to be ready
(17:32):
enough to answer that phone.
So just utilize the tools thatexist and trust your instincts.
I was a spokesperson, so I hadtalked to media plenty.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Let me take you down a little sidebar here, just
around status boards, because,as you know, companies are using
more and more technology andvirtual command posts to you
know, to manage incidents.
And you know I grew up whereyou walk in the room and you've
got post-it notes on the wall.
(18:10):
Each is a different statusboard of you know facts that you
know rumors, you know aproduction schedule for your
press releases and FAQs and allof that and it's very analog
kind of approach.
But you can stand in the roomand get the big picture of how
things are operating.
(18:30):
Right.
Your incident commander couldwalk in the room and instantly
get a big picture view of whatyou're working on, how efficient
you are managing resources hereand that.
But you know it seems likethat's, you know, going by the
wayside, I guess, when you'reusing teams to manage a response
(18:52):
.
What's your take on thetechnology versus analog
approach?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Ah, um, I also grew up in the analog world, um, so I
, I get it and that was ananalog situation.
But I have seen, um, uh, myclients and I have seen, and,
and I've also with the, you know, iep type software.
(19:22):
I've seen it work, but inparticular for a joint
information center, it is superhelpful to have you know both
and having staff dedicated tomaking sure that it is up to
date and being utilized fully.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, Mark.
Any thoughts on this one?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I'm just agreeing with what I hear.
There's no point in addingsomething to that comment,
except one thing I think we needto remember for the JIC and
I've seen this in real eventsand in exercises both we make
the assumption that all of ouraudiences are external, but the
truth is, the JIC is a source ofinformation about the total
(20:07):
response and what's going on forthe people in the room too.
And that's where, again, do iton teams, if you want, or do it
by covering the window into theroom you're working from, but
don't forget that you have aninternal audience as well.
And, by the way, that'ssomething in that American
Airlines accident they made veryclear that they were speaking
(20:29):
and informing with theiremployees, which I just think is
really critical.
And the one challenge with Teamsmy own experience is it's a
great tool, but everyorganization tends to set it up
the way they want to set it up.
So the first thing you have tolearn is is where are you
putting the 201?
Where are you putting the 209?
(20:50):
, and so on and Dustin, realquick too.
Another thing on this is thinkabout how much things have
changed since 2012.
If that happened today, youwould have been on the phone on
the plane, with your laptop open, looking at anything you needed
to look at, and so we live in aworld where we can get
information and deal with itmuch more rapidly.
(21:11):
We have to remember thateverybody around us does too,
though.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Does too, too, though Does too Exactly, exactly, and
you know, another big part ofthe lesson there, too, was not
only we talked about practice,talked about trusting your
instincts.
We talked about, you know,status board as one of the tools
, but you know, we're alsoutilizing a system that allowed
you kind of like a CRM for thiskind of situation.
(21:38):
There are multiple tools, butone of them is currently called
Jetty Right, so that's a systemthat a lot of my clients use and
that is super helpful, becauseyou can walk into a situation
where you have a shift changeand everyone knows which
stakeholders have called, whatthey've been told.
You have a list of the peoplethat you could reach out to.
(22:01):
So I mean, there's you know, toutilize the tools that are out
there and be prepared, betrained on them.
And also another big lesson andI was lucky to be working for a
company like Shell, who had Ihad trained multiple times a
year.
I had trained with the CoastGuard.
(22:21):
I knew my stakeholders, I knewthe people that might be sitting
next to me.
You know it was, you know, abig lesson about ensuring that
you have those, that you havethose relationships, and I also
had worked with, you know thePIAT, which is the Public
(22:45):
Information Assistance Team.
Yeah, so this is the CoastGuard's kind of rapid response
team where, within 24 hours, ifit's a large enough maritime
incident, they will send um atleast two people um to support,
um, to to work in thecommunications department.
Um, it just an incredible team,and I had worked with them
(23:07):
before I had understood theirpriorities, um, and so that's uh
, you know just, you knowputting yourself in that
situation ahead of time, becauseyou know, as you know, having a
role like a, you know anexternal role like a, like a
spokesperson for a largeorganization, it's just part of
your job, and being ready forthat hand grenade was that it
(23:31):
was.
It was great, well, good youknow there.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
We should spend an episode or two just walking
through the refresh of and bestpractices for running a JIC or
PIO team and how to keep thingsmoving Right that's what the
exercises are for an episode anddive into that at some point
(23:57):
too, because it's always a goodrefresh for listeners just to
think through how this is.
You know what are the differentsections under the PIO and what
are they all supposed to do,and how do I manage?
You know status boards andtracking media inquiries.
It's a very complex type ofsituation and it takes a little
practice to do it.
Well, Destin, thank you again,Mark.
(24:18):
Thank you as always, sir, Goodto see you.
And that's going to do it forthis episode of the Leading in a
Crisis podcast.
We do thank you for joining us.
If you want to reach out to thepodcast, you can email me at
tom at leadinginacrisiscom, andwe'll see you soon for another
episode, Take care.
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