August 30, 2025 • 36 mins
What does it take to lead through chaos? Tracy Nolan knows firsthand. This remarkable Fortune 100 executive has repeatedly stepped into roles most would consider overwhelming - from transforming struggling retail operations to merging telecom giants during a global pandemic. She also likes to solve puzzles.
Tracy's journey from retail buyer to telecom executive to healthcare leader reveals a unique talent: she thrives in crisis. "Give me a job that needs transformation," she explains, likening crisis management to solving a complex puzzle. Her approach centers on genuine human connection - creating space for people to be heard when uncertainty reigns.
When tasked with merging Sprint and T-Mobile while simultaneously navigating COVID restrictions, Tracy faced an unprecedented challenge. With 14,000 employees looking to her for direction, she implemented creative solutions like shift-based staffing and drive-through wireless services. Throughout the process, she maintained open communication channels, hosting weekly calls where she simply listened to employee concerns. "During crisis times, I slow down and take time to listen," she reveals, countering the common executive instinct to act quickly without gathering input.
Tracy also shares profound insights about leadership sustainability. She acknowledges the importance of scheduled downtime and maintaining boundaries, noting how her team appreciates when she's not sending weekend emails. Her philosophy on team development stems from a powerful personal experience when a boss believed in her more than she believed in herself - a gift she now pays forward by creating growth opportunities for her team members.
For executives facing seemingly insurmountable challenges, Tracy offers wisdom earned through decades of crisis navigation: "Realize that nothing is done in a day. Take a deep breath, figure out what's the most critical item you need to address today." This incremental approach, combined with honest communication and self-compassion, creates a sustainable path through even the most turbulent circumstances.
Find our more about Tracy on LinkedIn or at tracynolan.com.
Email the podcast via tom@leadinginacrisis.com
We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom Mueller (00:07):
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leading in a
Crisis podcast.
We're happy to have you with usagain today.
On this podcast we talk allthings crisis management and we
talk to people who have been onthe front lines of crisis
management to share theirstories and real-life
experiences.
I'm Tom Mueller.
With me today is special guestTracy Nolan.
(00:29):
Tracy is a highly experiencedFortune 100 executive who's
worked her way through a numberof major corporations, helping
those corporations buildbusiness and develop leaders.
Tracy, welcome to the podcast.
Tracy Nolan (00:46):
Tom, thank you for having me here today.
I'm excited to spend a littletime talking about crisis
management with you.
Tom Mueller (00:53):
Well, you've had a very interesting career run so
far.
Give us just a quick thumbnailof the highlights from your
career and what's gotten you tothis point.
Tracy Nolan (01:07):
Tom, the real funny thing is I never thought I'd be
doing what I'm doing today, butI absolutely love it.
You know, out of college Istarted retailing and I did
everything from run retailstores to design stores and
actually even, you know, be aclothing buyer in New York and
gifts and things like that.
And then I got a call one dayto go work in telecom and it was
(01:30):
at a time when, you probablyremember, cell phones were a lot
larger than they are today.
You didn't have the coverage.
You did, and you know we still,everybody still had landline
phones, but they needed someonewho knew retail, who could come
in and make it consumer friendly.
And so my, my role was to howdo you bring consumer experience
(01:53):
and set up stores and do allthat into wireless?
That kind of catapulted my nextyears in telecommunications and
going through a lot oftransition and change from
Frontier Cellular to Bell LabMobile to Verizon, and I did
some startups, turnarounds.
I got into the buyback tradingphone business and I think you
(02:15):
might remember the days when youused to get a cell phone and go
to get a new one and you'dstick the old one in a drawer.
Well, there was a time when wedidn't trade in our phones and I
actually started up the tradein business for Verizon and ran
that for a while and then got anopportunity to go transform
Sprint.
(02:36):
It was at a time when, you know, they were in some trouble and
it was either turn it around orit could go bankrupt.
And so I worked for Sprint.
We turned it around, sold it toT-Mobile and that was and took
that through transition andchange during COVID.
And then I ended up getting acall by a headhunter one day and
(02:59):
that headhunter said hey,there's this thing in in
healthcare called Humana.
Will you come work at Humanaand do run all of sales?
And I was like I don't think atthis point that I want to do
that.
They called me again aboutthree months later and said, hey
, we really want you.
And I said, okay, well, I reallywant to talk to the hiring
manager and if we can make thatwork and I don't have to go
(03:22):
through all the steps younormally do to make a job change
and do all that, and actuallyfell in love with the idea of
getting back to something thatreally is very meaningful for me
but allows me to use myexpertise of what I you know my
professional career is gettingback and helping people who you
(03:44):
know find the right health careneeds and the right right
company to go with to be able to, you know, have better health
outcomes.
So love what I'm doing, lovethe fact that I can hopefully
make a difference in the waypeople shop for their health
care insurance, and that's kindof where I've been.
(04:06):
Again, I never thought I'd bedoing what I'm doing today, but
I just absolutely love it.
Tom Mueller (04:12):
You know it's one of the core tenets of being good
at crisis management is you'vegot to be calm under pressure
and you have to be willing towork in a semi-chaotic
environment.
Right, and so it sounds likejust with the jobs you've taken,
the challenges you've taken on,you're not somebody who shies
(04:33):
away from new and differentenvironments and challenges.
Tracy Nolan (04:48):
I always say it gives me a job that is like a
role that is going well anddoesn't need a transformation.
Now it couldn't be going reallywell, but I really thrive in
environments where there issignificant amount of change or
crisis management.
Or it's just something withinme that I love to help people
through a difficult period oftime and come out stronger on
the other end.
Tom Mueller (05:09):
Well, as I said, that's a sort of a unique
managerial talent there, or atleast the people who are good at
that, you know, rise to the tophere and are able to lead
organizations effectively.
But not all of us are cut outto do that.
And in your leadership role,you know, I'm curious.
You know, when you've beenworking through some of the
(05:31):
organizational changes thatyou've had, you've had younger
executives working for you whomaybe weren't as comfortable in
those types of environments andmaybe struggle with that.
What's your advice for peoplewho may struggle in a time of
(05:54):
crisis like that to be able tobe effective, as you are in your
career?
Tracy Nolan (05:58):
I think, tom, how I got super comfortable was in a
crisis situation.
I was fairly young, I wasworking in retail and, as I call
it, the big bad may companycame in and bought out a local
you know retailer and I was theyou know, the last standing
(06:18):
operator.
I would say you know of this,of all of the stores, and this
was, you know, a company who hadbeen in existence for over 50
years.
Family owned company, 27 storesin upstate New York.
People's grandparents hadworked at the store.
I mean, this was an icon.
And when May came in, theydidn't just, you know, take over
(06:42):
the stores and buy them out,they actually wanted to shut
them all down and we had to letall the employees go and my job
at that time I think I was maybe28.
My job was to crisis managethrough that process of, you
know, letting people go but alsoclosing down the store.
(07:07):
So I still needed them to workand we still needed to get
through this.
And you know I my advice isexactly what I learned real
quickly was I was so taskoriented that I was about you
know what hours are we keepingopen?
How are we scheduling?
You know what are we?
You know how much inventory dowe have left to sell through?
(07:27):
And all that.
And I realized quickly that Icouldn't get through it without
the people and without realcommunication and slowing down
during a crisis to take time tolisten to people, especially
when you're a type A like I am,and one that also people may not
(07:49):
.
Say, tom that I'm normally calmI don't think calm is usually a
word they use to describe mebut during crisis times I slow
down and I take time to listen.
Another example I use is wewere going through time to
listen, you know.
Another example I use is wewere going through you know, a
(08:15):
another buyout when, whenBellinic Mobile bought Frontier
Cellular and you know we weregoing through name changes and
department changes andeverything.
And I just decided one day like, hey, we're going to go through
this and we're going to gothrough it together and
hopefully a lot of us will staytogether, but some of us may not
want to make it through thechange and all that.
But I set up just a bridge oncea week where I got on and
instead of being the voice thatwas talking to everybody, I said
(08:38):
I'll give you 10 minutes or 15minutes of update.
Then I'm just leaving thebridge open for the next 45
minutes just to listen, and Iwant you to ask me anything.
There's nothing off the table,even if it comes down to hey,
are you going to do?
You know, if there's otherlayoffs, I will tell you
everything I humanly possiblycan, unless legal has told me I
(08:59):
can't or I'm under some sort ofsomething.
I can't and I've got to tellyou.
The first time I did it, westood there and my direct team
was with me and they're likeTracy, nobody's asking questions
.
And I said that's fine, we'lljust sit here.
And by the third or fourth weekI was getting all sorts of
questions right and peoplestarted getting more comfortable
(09:20):
.
So as you go through crisis,one of the biggest pieces people
miss is it really is about thepeople, and you're not going to
get any work done, you're notgoing to be able to manage
through it, if people don't feellike they're being heard and
that you're not providing themas much feedback and time.
And as leaders, we get superbusy and it's really hard to
(09:43):
always say you need to give time, but it's one of the most
important lessons I've learnedin crisis management.
Tom Mueller (09:50):
Yeah, what a fantastic story and experience
to share there.
As you were telling that story,I was just thinking back to
some of my longer wavelengthcrisis response situations where
you know the leader who wasmanaging this entire incident
and just I don't know how theydid it.
(10:12):
They kept going every day, justquiet, plotting, consistent
(10:39):
every day.
But, as you've said, you knowto be with people, to be present
in the moment and to make eachof them feel like they're
important because, in reality,they are to your process,
because in reality, they are toyour process.
So that's it's.
It's a fascinating skill set.
Not all of us have that, sokudos to you for taking that,
(11:02):
leveraging that.
Tracy Nolan (11:09):
It was.
It was.
I've had to learn it because I,you know also, I had at one
point I thought I was a greatlistener, but I'm also a talker
and what I realized was thatreally true communication is
more listening and less talking.
And it's so easy to get in thehabit, if you're the leader, to
do all the talking, and Iliterally have to schedule it
even to this day, like to dolistening sessions with you know
(11:31):
roundtables of people, becausea lot of times we also, as
leaders, think we knoweverything, and I guarantee you
we don't.
The people who know everythingare the ones that are actually
working with the customers oryou know, in that and even
simple things.
Like you know, I realized thatall these people aren't going to
have jobs, and this was beforeLinkedIn, when this, you know,
(11:52):
we were, you know in other waysof recruiting.
So I got creative and said letme go find you know another
retailer who might need peopleand let's figure out how to get
you know some people interviewsand just by helping them with
what's next.
You know, just that littleextra time that I took for that
(12:13):
meant a lot to people and I havecarried that with me throughout
my career.
Tom Mueller (12:19):
Well, I know you've worked.
Clearly.
You know the big merger typesituations.
Here In particular, I wasreading about the merger between
Sprint and T-Mobile and youwere right in the middle of that
and of course, that's anothersort of longer wavelength
(12:40):
business situation, but in verymany ways, it's a crisis that
has to be managed through,because you're trying to
preserve the value of thebusiness, you're trying to
maintain your employees, you'retrying to keep people motivated
and yet move forward every daywith this response that's
(13:01):
happening.
So talk us through a little bitabout your role in managing
that merger to be managed, youknow, from if we look at it
through the crisis lens ofdelivering every day and trying
to get things better and bringthis to a conclusion.
Tracy Nolan (13:23):
Yeah, so this one was, it was.
It was a long time coming.
So I look at it not like on theday of merger, but I look at it
from the day that there was anannouncement that there might be
a merger.
Because as soon as you say thewords merger, people are worried
about their jobs, right, andyour partners are worried
(13:43):
whether they're going to bepartner of this new new co in
the long time and this it was athree year stint from the time
that they announced that therewould be a merger, with a 50-50,
sometimes 70-40, sometimes30-70 type of opportunity,
whether it would even beapproved to go through or not.
(14:05):
So I look at kind of crisismanagement starting from that
point.
And then also people notknowing who was going to be
chosen to be part of the goforward, the new co, and was it
going to be?
Was Tracy going to be part ofit going forward, or is my
leader not going to be there?
And how do I do it?
So I started with painting avision of what the future could
(14:28):
be and the reasons for themerger and, again, a lot of
communication about you know,hey, it may be bumpy, we don't
know where the plane's going toland, but I can tell you that
you know, when you put the twoassets together, it's going to
be an incredible thing is goingto be, you know, a company that
has more spectrum than any otherwireless carrier.
(14:50):
There's so many, you know,possibilities.
So it's kind of helping peopleknow what the future is, or what
the future could be, so thatthey can get super comfortable
with where we are and wherewe're going.
And I never once, you know, Ididn't know exactly, but if I
knew, if I knew that theultimate goal was going to be
something good, so it was reallykeeping that on the forefront,
(15:15):
but also keeping people focusedon what we were doing and what
our responsibility was on aday-to-day basis to take care of
our customers.
And I will tell you that I had14,000 people reporting to me at
the time of this.
And finally, in January of 2020, we get yes, this is going to
(15:36):
happen and we're going to getthis, you know merger through,
super excited about it, but itwould take, you know, another
four or five months.
And I'll never forget the callin February when I heard got a
call about something calledCOVID and I was like COVID, what
is this?
And, if you remember, itstarted up in Seattle, which is
(16:02):
the headquarters of where youknow T-Mobile is, and we were
supposed to go up on a trip andthey said, no, no, no, there's
some sort of disease orsomething up there, we can't go.
And then we get told hey, we'reall going to start to work from
home.
And now you're talking about,you know, I'm responsible for
all the stores across thecountry and I'm trying to think
of how do I keep people safe inworking in shifts, because we
(16:26):
were, you know, deemed, you know, a organization that needed to
stay open because of, you know,wireless services being very
important to everyone andkeeping our employees safe.
And then trying to do thisduring COVID and on April 1, we
get the announcement of a merger.
(16:48):
So now I'm merging people, twocompanies, in the middle of a
pandemic, when we're trying tomanage how to take care of our
customers and our employees andhaving to get highly creative.
And this is where, you know,processes have to be thrown out
and you have to be comfortableas a leader to say, okay, if
(17:10):
it's 70% baked, it's not 100%that it's going to work, perfect
, but it's better to do thatthan to do the way that we've
always done it, because if youdon't do it and like, just an
example was like we decided towork people in shifts, so I
would have, you know, five toeight employees who were, you
know, shift one, and they wouldwork in the store for three days
(17:31):
in a row and then I deep cleanthe store the night while they
left, and I mean really deepclean it, industrial strength,
deep clean it, and then a nextgroup would come in and then
that group would, you know,quarantine, because if anybody
got it, then that one group wentdown and not you know a mixture
of people.
(17:52):
You had to be kind of creativeon how you had to reinvent you
know different ways.
We also did things we didn'thave.
We didn't have a system thatwas like a drive up, you know,
talk to someone on the phonewhile they're in their car and
then go out and deliver, like wewere.
We were literally like you know, kind of doing a drive through
wireless kind of scenario, so soyou know, customers didn't have
(18:15):
to come into their store.
Like you had to recreate everysort of way.
Tom Mueller (18:19):
Oh really.
Oh yeah, I was going to saythat's a face-to-face kind of
business, right, that retailinterface, so you were able to
work it out there where peoplecould just sort of drive up and
pick up a phone, basically.
Tracy Nolan (18:32):
Either that or we would say, hey, stay in your car
, we'll call you when there's noone else in, or we can have,
you know, nine feet in between.
Right, and so it had.
But all that had to be donesuper fast and with 14000 people
.
And then all of a sudden it'slike, oh, now we're merging
together, so now signs arechanging on buildings and the
(18:53):
way policies are, and we'redoing it all virtually.
So again, through that, throughcrisis management, it's to your
point, you said being, you know, calm.
It's really.
The other part is, is I likepuzzles and I think of a crisis
is almost a puzzle and I have totake it out from being personal
, kind of putting it on thetable.
(19:14):
What's the problem on the table?
I kind of putting it on thetable, what's the problem on the
table?
I kind of treat it as a puzzleand then I try to figure out,
like, how best to do it andasking people and communicating
again all along with it.
Tom Mueller (19:26):
Yeah, that's a fascinating example and there's
so many places to go with that.
But you know, oftentimes I'mgoing to throw the lawyer angle
in at you for just a secondright, because you know we work
closely with the legal teams inmost instances in our businesses
(19:47):
, but particularly in crisis,because we don't want to make
things worse by doing or sayingsomething that you know that
further harms the company.
So I'm curious did you have tonavigate any of those kind of
you know landmines as you weredeveloping this strategy?
You know the sort of 70%solution.
(20:07):
Was everybody on board with youor did you really have to arm
wrestle people to get there?
Tracy Nolan (20:14):
Well, I think there's like my, my, have two.
I have a left and right arm,one's usually HR and the other
one's legal Right.
But I need them to be businessfocused and I need them to spell
out what the risk profile is ofwhatever decisions we're making
, not not really tell me yes orno unless it's something
absolutely like I'm really goingto do something that's going to
(20:36):
be highly disruptive to theorganization long term.
But we didn't really know whatthe legal ramifications were
going to be on a lot of thedecisions that we had to make.
But I needed a great businesspartner who could help me figure
(20:59):
out, like, okay, is it?
You know in that 70-30, what ismy risk profile?
So I always kind of go on arisk profile, look of, how much
risk am I willing to take.
And we as a leadership team hadmade the determination that like
, hey, we're going to have totake some risk here, probably a
heavier dose of risk than wenormally do, but ultimately if
(21:22):
it's in the best interest of thecustomer.
And you know this is a sad COVIDwas super sad, and for many
reasons, to me because we hadpeople in hospitals who couldn't
even go visit their spouses andit weighed heavy on me that
(21:42):
some of the only communicationthat they could have is they
couldn't even call, you know,the nurse's desk to get
information because the nurseswere so busy they didn't have
time like they were, hospitalswere overrun.
The only communication somepeople had with spouses who were
very, very sick, and some thatdidn't make it was via, you know
(22:04):
, wireless connection.
You know internet wirelessconnection.
So you know there was more risktaken in those situations.
But yes, you have to look atthe risk.
But I think in a crisissituation you take on a little
more risk if it's in thebetterment for people think
(22:36):
about leadership, particularlyincidents like this, where
you're dealing with COVID and orany merger type situation.
Tom Mueller (22:39):
Now your challenge is to maintain your edge for
months and months, and months ata time and to keep your people
motivated throughout that.
And I know you've talked aboutlistening here a little bit as a
way to help people stay engaged.
But you know, I'm curious kindof what's your secret sauce for
(23:02):
keeping yourself engaged,motivated, when you know you're
going to be slogging throughthis for six months or eight
months or whatever it is, andkeeping your team going as well?
How do you see that challenge?
Tracy Nolan (23:18):
It's, this whole capacity and ability is
something that makes me smile,because I have worked for bosses
who I've said, oh my gosh, Idon't even know how they do it
or how they keep up.
And it wasn't until probablytwo years ago I actually had
some person who works for me sayto me Trace, I need a break,
(23:40):
like I have got to go to walkaround, I don't know how you're
keeping going on this topic, andit's like I can't.
I can't, like I can't.
And it did make me laughbecause I thought, oh my gosh, I
now know what that felt likeyears ago when I had a boss who
I just didn't know how they keptgoing.
First of all, I do think thereis, as you know, getting highly.
(24:04):
Getting comfortable in thoseuncomfort zones, as I call them,
is something that you do buildup resilience and ability to do
it the more that you've enduredit, um.
But I also think that mypassion for um helping others.
(24:24):
You know, I had somebody oncesay to me hey, trace, like you
know, you probably shouldn't bein in, you know business, you're
probably should be.
You know, a nurse, a doctor.
Or you know, uh, you knowbusiness, you're probably should
be, you know, a nurse, a doctor, you know you know work in some
other business because you caretoo much for people.
But I honestly think that's kindof a superpower for me, because
when crisis hits, it's usuallyhow do I help people out, and
(24:49):
that that that energizes me andI'm willing to go a long time
without it.
But I will tell you that I needmy downtime and I do need like
and when I'm talking downtime,tom, I'm like no TV, like
husband, stop talking to me, Ijust need my space and I may be
(25:11):
doing, I may be just playing acomputer game, I may be doing
some craft or playing with mydog, but like, just I need, I
need to like.
I do know when I need torecharge and I make sure that I
do that.
Tom Mueller (25:26):
Yeah, does that for you personally?
Is that something that everyday you take that time?
Or it's just you know, after aprolonged period of high energy
exertion you're like, okay, I'mhitting the wall, it's time to
step away.
Tracy Nolan (25:41):
I would say Saturday morning, saturday.
I try to get one day on theweekend where I really step away
and I've also learned that youknow the days of feeling like
you have to be on 24 by seven tobe an effective leader is
really not great.
I and I have been one that hasbeen known to work, work, work.
(26:04):
But I find that if I can taketime away and it's interesting
getting into working for Humana,I remember, like people not
always like because we're ahealthcare company it's a little
different.
We all work super hard butpeople do, you know, they do
(26:24):
respect downtime and vacationand doing it.
So I take two weeks, definitelyat least a week at a time off
twice a year because that helpsme.
And then I definitely take, youknow, longer weekends because I
just need that time.
It's super important for yourmental health and your physical
(26:45):
health, but it's.
I have to plan For me, I have toplan it, and I usually plan
Saturday mornings to dosomething.
It may not be anything, butit's something for me, like it
may be just downtime and that'sgreat.
Tom Mueller (26:58):
Do you think your team appreciates when you go
away for a week or two as well,so they get a break?
Tracy Nolan (27:12):
encourage my team to take what I call we don't do
fake time off, which is a wordthat people have used for a long
time fake time off that I doencourage them to take time off
and I get for them.
And then when I go away, I'vegotten a lot better at not
checking in and allowing them torun, because I think it's
important.
If you're checking in all thetime then I question you have
the right people right and youneed to give people their space
(27:36):
so that they can step up and doit and develop.
I mean, that's what it's allabout.
So I, if you look at it as agreat time for others to be
developed and take the time.
I think my team has gotten me toalso not do emails as much on
the weekends, like I know thatbothers them, so I've learned
(27:57):
not to do it.
Okay, I also have learned howin Outlook I can put it so
nothing gets delivered till 8amon Monday morning.
But I do think when I heardKate's man, they're like this
girl's, a little bit of a nut.
She does a lot of emails on theweekends, so I've had to adapt.
Tom Mueller (28:19):
And kudos to you for recognizing that and doing
that.
I think that's your type Achallenge, right?
It's because you're always on.
There's always things going onin your brain, you're firing on.
There's always things going onin your brain, you're firing out
emails.
But if you want your team to beable to stand down, then you
have to give them some space todo that as well.
Tracy Nolan (28:39):
And that's important as a good leader, to
allow your team to have that.
Tom Mueller (28:46):
Yeah, how do you get comfortable with you know
stepping away?
How do you get comfortable withyou know stepping away and you
know how do you know when you'vegot team members who are ready
to lead, or do you just have tosort of take a chance on that a
little bit?
I I that that feels weirdsaying that but you got to give
(29:06):
people the opportunity to stepup and lead right.
Tracy Nolan (29:10):
You do and you know .
I go back to Ron Boylett, whowas one of my, the leader who
actually got me into wireless,and I'll remember.
The story I love to tell abouthim is he I had just gotten
promoted to director of all ofsales and literally 10 days
later he wanted me to present tothe CEO my strategic plan.
(29:32):
And I was like I knew I had runthree of the sales channels but
I hadn't run all of them andthis was a step up for me.
So I was a bit uncomfortableand I wanted to put together my.
You know, I put together apresentation of a high level
strategy only 10 days in and Isaid, hey, ron, let's go review
(29:52):
it.
And he's like I'm not reviewinganything that you're saying.
I go, well, let me tell you atleast the outline, and he's like
, nope, I'm not going to doanything.
Wow, he trusted me to walk intothis new CEO and do this
presentation.
He, you know of everything thatI was going to do and I
(30:13):
presentation he, you knoweverything that I was going to
do.
And I, to this day, havelearned from Ron that he
believed in me more than Ibelieved in myself and he was
willing to give me a shot.
And I remember what I literallyfinished my presentation and
answered all these questions andCEO was like two hours late, so
we were just sitting waiting,which made it even worse, and I
(30:34):
remember leaving because he hadhe was staying on to do other
meetings and walking away andgoing.
I think I did okay, I don't know, but like I was, you know, kind
of self-doubting, going throughthe whole thing and like two
hours later he's like you nailedit and I thought you know what.
Thank you, ron, for trusting inme more than I trust in myself.
(30:54):
So my philosophy is is that aone presentation, like he knew
that if, even if I bombed it, Iwould have another chance, but
like he was willing to give methat space and not feel like he
had to control it.
And so I try to give my teamand a lot of times I put people
(31:17):
in front of you know to handle ameeting or in situations that
they don't even know if they cando.
But I have enough faith andwillingness to do it and I think
again it's another piece of whyI've been successful is because
it's not about me, it's aboutmy team and giving them the
opportunity and to shine and I,you know if I can, if somebody
(31:41):
else can say Tracy Nolan the wayI say about Ron Boylett, that
would be.
That would be like I'veachieved.
What my goals here on life areabout is really helping others
achieve goals and greater goodthan what they thought they
could do.
Tom Mueller (31:56):
Well, it's such a boost for you know, for up and
coming executives, to have thatkind of vote of confidence in
you.
I mean, I think back to youknow, something that I've
experienced, actually, and seenin others, is that impersonator,
complex, right when you feellike man, I'm in over my head
here.
I'm not sure I can do this andyou don't really know until you
(32:21):
step in, step up and do it, butit really requires somebody to
support you and help you throughthat.
Have you seen that in you knowsome of your people.
Tracy Nolan (32:35):
I personally had it numerous times when I got.
I remember when, you know,verizon said hey, you're going
to go run one of the largestmarkets.
I was from upstate New York.
Hey, you're going to go runChicago, you know, and it was a
market that had had two regionpresidents in the last two years
.
And then they said, hey, you'reup, you're going, and here I am
, from upstate New York, goingto a big city and running this
(32:57):
market.
I remember getting out of theplane going, oh my gosh, like
this is what I'm.
You know, I have over a billiondollar P&L that I'm responsible
for and I've had it myself,right and it's.
It can be debilitating andreally make you not perform well
, but I have had to getcomfortable and this is what I
(33:22):
tell everybody is like you don'tneed to know everything.
You know, like that's why youknow, I always look to hire
really great people around methat know more than I do, which
a lot of leaders don't want todo because they're worried
they're going to be outshined.
But a great leader surroundsthemselves with really strong
people who know something thatyou can teach them and they can
(33:43):
teach you.
And until you get comfortablewith that, you're going to have
that imposter syndrome rightwith that.
You're going to have thatimposter syndrome right.
And then realizing that everyday I just I used to also
because of the type type A andjust wanting to be perfect all
the time, I've had to realizelike, stop grading myself on
every little thing that I do,because that is very unhealthy,
(34:06):
and as long as I do my besttoday and then try harder
tomorrow, like that is it, it'sokay.
If I got on a call and I didn'thave the perfect answers, or I
even missed a call by accidentbecause I was running over and
something like just giveyourself a little grace.
Like we're all human right andsomeone entrusted you enough to
(34:28):
have that seat at the table orhave that job.
Like that should be a boost,enough confidence for you to be
able to do what you need to do.
Tom Mueller (34:38):
Yeah, if only, if only.
But yeah, that imposter thingfeels it's something I think so
many of us feel at differenttimes in our careers and our
lives.
So thanks for sharing yourperspective on that and for
taking time to chat with ustoday.
(34:59):
What's your final sort ofadvice to executives who find
themselves in that situationwhere you know there's a very
steep mountain ahead, lots ofchaos, rules.
How do you get through thatsuccessfully?
Tracy Nolan (35:20):
Realize that nothing is done in a day, and
you know.
Take a deep breath, figure outwhat's the most critical item
that you need to address today.
Breath, figure out what's themost critical item that you need
to address today.
Don't think about like fixingit all or making all that change
happen immediately.
As long as you're movingforward, that's all.
(35:40):
That is a great step in theright direction.
And don't be afraid.
Like so many people, don't wantto have to give bad news or
have that.
Just be honest and talk to theteam as if you would want to be
talked to, and you canaccomplish a lot and probably
more than you even think you cando if you just take that deep
(36:02):
breath and realize that it can'tbe all done today.
Just focus on the mostimportant.
Tom Mueller (36:08):
Tracy Nolan, thanks so much for joining us today.
Tracy Nolan (36:12):
Thank you, Tom.
Tom Mueller (36:13):
And that's going to do it for this episode of the
Leading in a Crisis podcast.
Thank you again for being withus today.
Hey, if you want to email theshow, you can reach out to me at
tom at leadinginacrisiscom, andwe'll see you again soon on
another episode.
Take care.
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leading in a
Crisis podcast.
We're happy to have you with usagain today.
On this podcast we talk allthings crisis management and we
talk to people who have been onthe front lines of crisis
management to share theirstories and real-life
experiences.
I'm Tom Mueller.
With me today is special guestTracy Nolan.
(00:29):
Tracy is a highly experiencedFortune 100 executive who's
worked her way through a numberof major corporations, helping
those corporations buildbusiness and develop leaders.
Tracy, welcome to the podcast.
Tracy Nolan (00:46):
Tom, thank you for having me here today.
I'm excited to spend a littletime talking about crisis
management with you.
Tom Mueller (00:53):
Well, you've had a very interesting career run so
far.
Give us just a quick thumbnailof the highlights from your
career and what's gotten you tothis point.
Tracy Nolan (01:07):
Tom, the real funny thing is I never thought I'd be
doing what I'm doing today, butI absolutely love it.
You know, out of college Istarted retailing and I did
everything from run retailstores to design stores and
actually even, you know, be aclothing buyer in New York and
gifts and things like that.
And then I got a call one dayto go work in telecom and it was
(01:30):
at a time when, you probablyremember, cell phones were a lot
larger than they are today.
You didn't have the coverage.
You did, and you know we still,everybody still had landline
phones, but they needed someonewho knew retail, who could come
in and make it consumer friendly.
And so my, my role was to howdo you bring consumer experience
(01:53):
and set up stores and do allthat into wireless?
That kind of catapulted my nextyears in telecommunications and
going through a lot oftransition and change from
Frontier Cellular to Bell LabMobile to Verizon, and I did
some startups, turnarounds.
I got into the buyback tradingphone business and I think you
(02:15):
might remember the days when youused to get a cell phone and go
to get a new one and you'dstick the old one in a drawer.
Well, there was a time when wedidn't trade in our phones and I
actually started up the tradein business for Verizon and ran
that for a while and then got anopportunity to go transform
Sprint.
(02:36):
It was at a time when, you know, they were in some trouble and
it was either turn it around orit could go bankrupt.
And so I worked for Sprint.
We turned it around, sold it toT-Mobile and that was and took
that through transition andchange during COVID.
And then I ended up getting acall by a headhunter one day and
(02:59):
that headhunter said hey,there's this thing in in
healthcare called Humana.
Will you come work at Humanaand do run all of sales?
And I was like I don't think atthis point that I want to do
that.
They called me again aboutthree months later and said, hey
, we really want you.
And I said, okay, well, I reallywant to talk to the hiring
manager and if we can make thatwork and I don't have to go
(03:22):
through all the steps younormally do to make a job change
and do all that, and actuallyfell in love with the idea of
getting back to something thatreally is very meaningful for me
but allows me to use myexpertise of what I you know my
professional career is gettingback and helping people who you
(03:44):
know find the right health careneeds and the right right
company to go with to be able to, you know, have better health
outcomes.
So love what I'm doing, lovethe fact that I can hopefully
make a difference in the waypeople shop for their health
care insurance, and that's kindof where I've been.
(04:06):
Again, I never thought I'd bedoing what I'm doing today, but
I just absolutely love it.
Tom Mueller (04:12):
You know it's one of the core tenets of being good
at crisis management is you'vegot to be calm under pressure
and you have to be willing towork in a semi-chaotic
environment.
Right, and so it sounds likejust with the jobs you've taken,
the challenges you've taken on,you're not somebody who shies
(04:33):
away from new and differentenvironments and challenges.
Tracy Nolan (04:48):
I always say it gives me a job that is like a
role that is going well anddoesn't need a transformation.
Now it couldn't be going reallywell, but I really thrive in
environments where there issignificant amount of change or
crisis management.
Or it's just something withinme that I love to help people
through a difficult period oftime and come out stronger on
the other end.
Tom Mueller (05:09):
Well, as I said, that's a sort of a unique
managerial talent there, or atleast the people who are good at
that, you know, rise to the tophere and are able to lead
organizations effectively.
But not all of us are cut outto do that.
And in your leadership role,you know, I'm curious.
You know, when you've beenworking through some of the
(05:31):
organizational changes thatyou've had, you've had younger
executives working for you whomaybe weren't as comfortable in
those types of environments andmaybe struggle with that.
What's your advice for peoplewho may struggle in a time of
(05:54):
crisis like that to be able tobe effective, as you are in your
career?
Tracy Nolan (05:58):
I think, tom, how I got super comfortable was in a
crisis situation.
I was fairly young, I wasworking in retail and, as I call
it, the big bad may companycame in and bought out a local
you know retailer and I was theyou know, the last standing
(06:18):
operator.
I would say you know of this,of all of the stores, and this
was, you know, a company who hadbeen in existence for over 50
years.
Family owned company, 27 storesin upstate New York.
People's grandparents hadworked at the store.
I mean, this was an icon.
And when May came in, theydidn't just, you know, take over
(06:42):
the stores and buy them out,they actually wanted to shut
them all down and we had to letall the employees go and my job
at that time I think I was maybe28.
My job was to crisis managethrough that process of, you
know, letting people go but alsoclosing down the store.
(07:07):
So I still needed them to workand we still needed to get
through this.
And you know I my advice isexactly what I learned real
quickly was I was so taskoriented that I was about you
know what hours are we keepingopen?
How are we scheduling?
You know what are we?
You know how much inventory dowe have left to sell through?
(07:27):
And all that.
And I realized quickly that Icouldn't get through it without
the people and without realcommunication and slowing down
during a crisis to take time tolisten to people, especially
when you're a type A like I am,and one that also people may not
(07:49):
.
Say, tom that I'm normally calmI don't think calm is usually a
word they use to describe mebut during crisis times I slow
down and I take time to listen.
Another example I use is wewere going through time to
listen, you know.
Another example I use is wewere going through you know, a
(08:15):
another buyout when, whenBellinic Mobile bought Frontier
Cellular and you know we weregoing through name changes and
department changes andeverything.
And I just decided one day like, hey, we're going to go through
this and we're going to gothrough it together and
hopefully a lot of us will staytogether, but some of us may not
want to make it through thechange and all that.
But I set up just a bridge oncea week where I got on and
instead of being the voice thatwas talking to everybody, I said
(08:38):
I'll give you 10 minutes or 15minutes of update.
Then I'm just leaving thebridge open for the next 45
minutes just to listen, and Iwant you to ask me anything.
There's nothing off the table,even if it comes down to hey,
are you going to do?
You know, if there's otherlayoffs, I will tell you
everything I humanly possiblycan, unless legal has told me I
(08:59):
can't or I'm under some sort ofsomething.
I can't and I've got to tellyou.
The first time I did it, westood there and my direct team
was with me and they're likeTracy, nobody's asking questions
.
And I said that's fine, we'lljust sit here.
And by the third or fourth weekI was getting all sorts of
questions right and peoplestarted getting more comfortable
(09:20):
.
So as you go through crisis,one of the biggest pieces people
miss is it really is about thepeople, and you're not going to
get any work done, you're notgoing to be able to manage
through it, if people don't feellike they're being heard and
that you're not providing themas much feedback and time.
And as leaders, we get superbusy and it's really hard to
(09:43):
always say you need to give time, but it's one of the most
important lessons I've learnedin crisis management.
Tom Mueller (09:50):
Yeah, what a fantastic story and experience
to share there.
As you were telling that story,I was just thinking back to
some of my longer wavelengthcrisis response situations where
you know the leader who wasmanaging this entire incident
and just I don't know how theydid it.
(10:12):
They kept going every day, justquiet, plotting, consistent
(10:39):
every day.
But, as you've said, you knowto be with people, to be present
in the moment and to make eachof them feel like they're
important because, in reality,they are to your process,
because in reality, they are toyour process.
So that's it's.
It's a fascinating skill set.
Not all of us have that, sokudos to you for taking that,
(11:02):
leveraging that.
Tracy Nolan (11:09):
It was.
It was.
I've had to learn it because I,you know also, I had at one
point I thought I was a greatlistener, but I'm also a talker
and what I realized was thatreally true communication is
more listening and less talking.
And it's so easy to get in thehabit, if you're the leader, to
do all the talking, and Iliterally have to schedule it
even to this day, like to dolistening sessions with you know
(11:31):
roundtables of people, becausea lot of times we also, as
leaders, think we knoweverything, and I guarantee you
we don't.
The people who know everythingare the ones that are actually
working with the customers oryou know, in that and even
simple things.
Like you know, I realized thatall these people aren't going to
have jobs, and this was beforeLinkedIn, when this, you know,
(11:52):
we were, you know in other waysof recruiting.
So I got creative and said letme go find you know another
retailer who might need peopleand let's figure out how to get
you know some people interviewsand just by helping them with
what's next.
You know, just that littleextra time that I took for that
(12:13):
meant a lot to people and I havecarried that with me throughout
my career.
Tom Mueller (12:19):
Well, I know you've worked.
Clearly.
You know the big merger typesituations.
Here In particular, I wasreading about the merger between
Sprint and T-Mobile and youwere right in the middle of that
and of course, that's anothersort of longer wavelength
(12:40):
business situation, but in verymany ways, it's a crisis that
has to be managed through,because you're trying to
preserve the value of thebusiness, you're trying to
maintain your employees, you'retrying to keep people motivated
and yet move forward every daywith this response that's
(13:01):
happening.
So talk us through a little bitabout your role in managing
that merger to be managed, youknow, from if we look at it
through the crisis lens ofdelivering every day and trying
to get things better and bringthis to a conclusion.
Tracy Nolan (13:23):
Yeah, so this one was, it was.
It was a long time coming.
So I look at it not like on theday of merger, but I look at it
from the day that there was anannouncement that there might be
a merger.
Because as soon as you say thewords merger, people are worried
about their jobs, right, andyour partners are worried
(13:43):
whether they're going to bepartner of this new new co in
the long time and this it was athree year stint from the time
that they announced that therewould be a merger, with a 50-50,
sometimes 70-40, sometimes30-70 type of opportunity,
whether it would even beapproved to go through or not.
(14:05):
So I look at kind of crisismanagement starting from that
point.
And then also people notknowing who was going to be
chosen to be part of the goforward, the new co, and was it
going to be?
Was Tracy going to be part ofit going forward, or is my
leader not going to be there?
And how do I do it?
So I started with painting avision of what the future could
(14:28):
be and the reasons for themerger and, again, a lot of
communication about you know,hey, it may be bumpy, we don't
know where the plane's going toland, but I can tell you that
you know, when you put the twoassets together, it's going to
be an incredible thing is goingto be, you know, a company that
has more spectrum than any otherwireless carrier.
(14:50):
There's so many, you know,possibilities.
So it's kind of helping peopleknow what the future is, or what
the future could be, so thatthey can get super comfortable
with where we are and wherewe're going.
And I never once, you know, Ididn't know exactly, but if I
knew, if I knew that theultimate goal was going to be
something good, so it was reallykeeping that on the forefront,
(15:15):
but also keeping people focusedon what we were doing and what
our responsibility was on aday-to-day basis to take care of
our customers.
And I will tell you that I had14,000 people reporting to me at
the time of this.
And finally, in January of 2020, we get yes, this is going to
(15:36):
happen and we're going to getthis, you know merger through,
super excited about it, but itwould take, you know, another
four or five months.
And I'll never forget the callin February when I heard got a
call about something calledCOVID and I was like COVID, what
is this?
And, if you remember, itstarted up in Seattle, which is
(16:02):
the headquarters of where youknow T-Mobile is, and we were
supposed to go up on a trip andthey said, no, no, no, there's
some sort of disease orsomething up there, we can't go.
And then we get told hey, we'reall going to start to work from
home.
And now you're talking about,you know, I'm responsible for
all the stores across thecountry and I'm trying to think
of how do I keep people safe inworking in shifts, because we
(16:26):
were, you know, deemed, you know, a organization that needed to
stay open because of, you know,wireless services being very
important to everyone andkeeping our employees safe.
And then trying to do thisduring COVID and on April 1, we
get the announcement of a merger.
(16:48):
So now I'm merging people, twocompanies, in the middle of a
pandemic, when we're trying tomanage how to take care of our
customers and our employees andhaving to get highly creative.
And this is where, you know,processes have to be thrown out
and you have to be comfortableas a leader to say, okay, if
(17:10):
it's 70% baked, it's not 100%that it's going to work, perfect
, but it's better to do thatthan to do the way that we've
always done it, because if youdon't do it and like, just an
example was like we decided towork people in shifts, so I
would have, you know, five toeight employees who were, you
know, shift one, and they wouldwork in the store for three days
(17:31):
in a row and then I deep cleanthe store the night while they
left, and I mean really deepclean it, industrial strength,
deep clean it, and then a nextgroup would come in and then
that group would, you know,quarantine, because if anybody
got it, then that one group wentdown and not you know a mixture
of people.
(17:52):
You had to be kind of creativeon how you had to reinvent you
know different ways.
We also did things we didn'thave.
We didn't have a system thatwas like a drive up, you know,
talk to someone on the phonewhile they're in their car and
then go out and deliver, like wewere.
We were literally like you know, kind of doing a drive through
wireless kind of scenario, so soyou know, customers didn't have
(18:15):
to come into their store.
Like you had to recreate everysort of way.
Tom Mueller (18:19):
Oh really.
Oh yeah, I was going to saythat's a face-to-face kind of
business, right, that retailinterface, so you were able to
work it out there where peoplecould just sort of drive up and
pick up a phone, basically.
Tracy Nolan (18:32):
Either that or we would say, hey, stay in your car
, we'll call you when there's noone else in, or we can have,
you know, nine feet in between.
Right, and so it had.
But all that had to be donesuper fast and with 14000 people
.
And then all of a sudden it'slike, oh, now we're merging
together, so now signs arechanging on buildings and the
(18:53):
way policies are, and we'redoing it all virtually.
So again, through that, throughcrisis management, it's to your
point, you said being, you know, calm.
It's really.
The other part is, is I likepuzzles and I think of a crisis
is almost a puzzle and I have totake it out from being personal
, kind of putting it on thetable.
(19:14):
What's the problem on the table?
I kind of putting it on thetable, what's the problem on the
table?
I kind of treat it as a puzzleand then I try to figure out,
like, how best to do it andasking people and communicating
again all along with it.
Tom Mueller (19:26):
Yeah, that's a fascinating example and there's
so many places to go with that.
But you know, oftentimes I'mgoing to throw the lawyer angle
in at you for just a secondright, because you know we work
closely with the legal teams inmost instances in our businesses
(19:47):
, but particularly in crisis,because we don't want to make
things worse by doing or sayingsomething that you know that
further harms the company.
So I'm curious did you have tonavigate any of those kind of
you know landmines as you weredeveloping this strategy?
You know the sort of 70%solution.
(20:07):
Was everybody on board with youor did you really have to arm
wrestle people to get there?
Tracy Nolan (20:14):
Well, I think there's like my, my, have two.
I have a left and right arm,one's usually HR and the other
one's legal Right.
But I need them to be businessfocused and I need them to spell
out what the risk profile is ofwhatever decisions we're making
, not not really tell me yes orno unless it's something
absolutely like I'm really goingto do something that's going to
(20:36):
be highly disruptive to theorganization long term.
But we didn't really know whatthe legal ramifications were
going to be on a lot of thedecisions that we had to make.
But I needed a great businesspartner who could help me figure
(20:59):
out, like, okay, is it?
You know in that 70-30, what ismy risk profile?
So I always kind of go on arisk profile, look of, how much
risk am I willing to take.
And we as a leadership team hadmade the determination that like
, hey, we're going to have totake some risk here, probably a
heavier dose of risk than wenormally do, but ultimately if
(21:22):
it's in the best interest of thecustomer.
And you know this is a sad COVIDwas super sad, and for many
reasons, to me because we hadpeople in hospitals who couldn't
even go visit their spouses andit weighed heavy on me that
(21:42):
some of the only communicationthat they could have is they
couldn't even call, you know,the nurse's desk to get
information because the nurseswere so busy they didn't have
time like they were, hospitalswere overrun.
The only communication somepeople had with spouses who were
very, very sick, and some thatdidn't make it was via, you know
(22:04):
, wireless connection.
You know internet wirelessconnection.
So you know there was more risktaken in those situations.
But yes, you have to look atthe risk.
But I think in a crisissituation you take on a little
more risk if it's in thebetterment for people think
(22:36):
about leadership, particularlyincidents like this, where
you're dealing with COVID and orany merger type situation.
Tom Mueller (22:39):
Now your challenge is to maintain your edge for
months and months, and months ata time and to keep your people
motivated throughout that.
And I know you've talked aboutlistening here a little bit as a
way to help people stay engaged.
But you know, I'm curious kindof what's your secret sauce for
(23:02):
keeping yourself engaged,motivated, when you know you're
going to be slogging throughthis for six months or eight
months or whatever it is, andkeeping your team going as well?
How do you see that challenge?
Tracy Nolan (23:18):
It's, this whole capacity and ability is
something that makes me smile,because I have worked for bosses
who I've said, oh my gosh, Idon't even know how they do it
or how they keep up.
And it wasn't until probablytwo years ago I actually had
some person who works for me sayto me Trace, I need a break,
(23:40):
like I have got to go to walkaround, I don't know how you're
keeping going on this topic, andit's like I can't.
I can't, like I can't.
And it did make me laughbecause I thought, oh my gosh, I
now know what that felt likeyears ago when I had a boss who
I just didn't know how they keptgoing.
First of all, I do think thereis, as you know, getting highly.
(24:04):
Getting comfortable in thoseuncomfort zones, as I call them,
is something that you do buildup resilience and ability to do
it the more that you've enduredit, um.
But I also think that mypassion for um helping others.
(24:24):
You know, I had somebody oncesay to me hey, trace, like you
know, you probably shouldn't bein in, you know business, you're
probably should be.
You know, a nurse, a doctor.
Or you know, uh, you knowbusiness, you're probably should
be, you know, a nurse, a doctor, you know you know work in some
other business because you caretoo much for people.
But I honestly think that's kindof a superpower for me, because
when crisis hits, it's usuallyhow do I help people out, and
(24:49):
that that that energizes me andI'm willing to go a long time
without it.
But I will tell you that I needmy downtime and I do need like
and when I'm talking downtime,tom, I'm like no TV, like
husband, stop talking to me, Ijust need my space and I may be
(25:11):
doing, I may be just playing acomputer game, I may be doing
some craft or playing with mydog, but like, just I need, I
need to like.
I do know when I need torecharge and I make sure that I
do that.
Tom Mueller (25:26):
Yeah, does that for you personally?
Is that something that everyday you take that time?
Or it's just you know, after aprolonged period of high energy
exertion you're like, okay, I'mhitting the wall, it's time to
step away.
Tracy Nolan (25:41):
I would say Saturday morning, saturday.
I try to get one day on theweekend where I really step away
and I've also learned that youknow the days of feeling like
you have to be on 24 by seven tobe an effective leader is
really not great.
I and I have been one that hasbeen known to work, work, work.
(26:04):
But I find that if I can taketime away and it's interesting
getting into working for Humana,I remember, like people not
always like because we're ahealthcare company it's a little
different.
We all work super hard butpeople do, you know, they do
(26:24):
respect downtime and vacationand doing it.
So I take two weeks, definitelyat least a week at a time off
twice a year because that helpsme.
And then I definitely take, youknow, longer weekends because I
just need that time.
It's super important for yourmental health and your physical
(26:45):
health, but it's.
I have to plan For me, I have toplan it, and I usually plan
Saturday mornings to dosomething.
It may not be anything, butit's something for me, like it
may be just downtime and that'sgreat.
Tom Mueller (26:58):
Do you think your team appreciates when you go
away for a week or two as well,so they get a break?
Tracy Nolan (27:12):
encourage my team to take what I call we don't do
fake time off, which is a wordthat people have used for a long
time fake time off that I doencourage them to take time off
and I get for them.
And then when I go away, I'vegotten a lot better at not
checking in and allowing them torun, because I think it's
important.
If you're checking in all thetime then I question you have
the right people right and youneed to give people their space
(27:36):
so that they can step up and doit and develop.
I mean, that's what it's allabout.
So I, if you look at it as agreat time for others to be
developed and take the time.
I think my team has gotten me toalso not do emails as much on
the weekends, like I know thatbothers them, so I've learned
(27:57):
not to do it.
Okay, I also have learned howin Outlook I can put it so
nothing gets delivered till 8amon Monday morning.
But I do think when I heardKate's man, they're like this
girl's, a little bit of a nut.
She does a lot of emails on theweekends, so I've had to adapt.
Tom Mueller (28:19):
And kudos to you for recognizing that and doing
that.
I think that's your type Achallenge, right?
It's because you're always on.
There's always things going onin your brain, you're firing on.
There's always things going onin your brain, you're firing out
emails.
But if you want your team to beable to stand down, then you
have to give them some space todo that as well.
Tracy Nolan (28:39):
And that's important as a good leader, to
allow your team to have that.
Tom Mueller (28:46):
Yeah, how do you get comfortable with you know
stepping away?
How do you get comfortable withyou know stepping away and you
know how do you know when you'vegot team members who are ready
to lead, or do you just have tosort of take a chance on that a
little bit?
I I that that feels weirdsaying that but you got to give
(29:06):
people the opportunity to stepup and lead right.
Tracy Nolan (29:10):
You do and you know .
I go back to Ron Boylett, whowas one of my, the leader who
actually got me into wireless,and I'll remember.
The story I love to tell abouthim is he I had just gotten
promoted to director of all ofsales and literally 10 days
later he wanted me to present tothe CEO my strategic plan.
(29:32):
And I was like I knew I had runthree of the sales channels but
I hadn't run all of them andthis was a step up for me.
So I was a bit uncomfortableand I wanted to put together my.
You know, I put together apresentation of a high level
strategy only 10 days in and Isaid, hey, ron, let's go review
(29:52):
it.
And he's like I'm not reviewinganything that you're saying.
I go, well, let me tell you atleast the outline, and he's like
, nope, I'm not going to doanything.
Wow, he trusted me to walk intothis new CEO and do this
presentation.
He, you know of everything thatI was going to do and I
(30:13):
presentation he, you knoweverything that I was going to
do.
And I, to this day, havelearned from Ron that he
believed in me more than Ibelieved in myself and he was
willing to give me a shot.
And I remember what I literallyfinished my presentation and
answered all these questions andCEO was like two hours late, so
we were just sitting waiting,which made it even worse, and I
(30:34):
remember leaving because he hadhe was staying on to do other
meetings and walking away andgoing.
I think I did okay, I don't know, but like I was, you know, kind
of self-doubting, going throughthe whole thing and like two
hours later he's like you nailedit and I thought you know what.
Thank you, ron, for trusting inme more than I trust in myself.
(30:54):
So my philosophy is is that aone presentation, like he knew
that if, even if I bombed it, Iwould have another chance, but
like he was willing to give methat space and not feel like he
had to control it.
And so I try to give my teamand a lot of times I put people
(31:17):
in front of you know to handle ameeting or in situations that
they don't even know if they cando.
But I have enough faith andwillingness to do it and I think
again it's another piece of whyI've been successful is because
it's not about me, it's aboutmy team and giving them the
opportunity and to shine and I,you know if I can, if somebody
(31:41):
else can say Tracy Nolan the wayI say about Ron Boylett, that
would be.
That would be like I'veachieved.
What my goals here on life areabout is really helping others
achieve goals and greater goodthan what they thought they
could do.
Tom Mueller (31:56):
Well, it's such a boost for you know, for up and
coming executives, to have thatkind of vote of confidence in
you.
I mean, I think back to youknow, something that I've
experienced, actually, and seenin others, is that impersonator,
complex, right when you feellike man, I'm in over my head
here.
I'm not sure I can do this andyou don't really know until you
(32:21):
step in, step up and do it, butit really requires somebody to
support you and help you throughthat.
Have you seen that in you knowsome of your people.
Tracy Nolan (32:35):
I personally had it numerous times when I got.
I remember when, you know,verizon said hey, you're going
to go run one of the largestmarkets.
I was from upstate New York.
Hey, you're going to go runChicago, you know, and it was a
market that had had two regionpresidents in the last two years
.
And then they said, hey, you'reup, you're going, and here I am
, from upstate New York, goingto a big city and running this
(32:57):
market.
I remember getting out of theplane going, oh my gosh, like
this is what I'm.
You know, I have over a billiondollar P&L that I'm responsible
for and I've had it myself,right and it's.
It can be debilitating andreally make you not perform well
, but I have had to getcomfortable and this is what I
(33:22):
tell everybody is like you don'tneed to know everything.
You know, like that's why youknow, I always look to hire
really great people around methat know more than I do, which
a lot of leaders don't want todo because they're worried
they're going to be outshined.
But a great leader surroundsthemselves with really strong
people who know something thatyou can teach them and they can
(33:43):
teach you.
And until you get comfortablewith that, you're going to have
that imposter syndrome rightwith that.
You're going to have thatimposter syndrome right.
And then realizing that everyday I just I used to also
because of the type type A andjust wanting to be perfect all
the time, I've had to realizelike, stop grading myself on
every little thing that I do,because that is very unhealthy,
(34:06):
and as long as I do my besttoday and then try harder
tomorrow, like that is it, it'sokay.
If I got on a call and I didn'thave the perfect answers, or I
even missed a call by accidentbecause I was running over and
something like just giveyourself a little grace.
Like we're all human right andsomeone entrusted you enough to
(34:28):
have that seat at the table orhave that job.
Like that should be a boost,enough confidence for you to be
able to do what you need to do.
Tom Mueller (34:38):
Yeah, if only, if only.
But yeah, that imposter thingfeels it's something I think so
many of us feel at differenttimes in our careers and our
lives.
So thanks for sharing yourperspective on that and for
taking time to chat with ustoday.
(34:59):
What's your final sort ofadvice to executives who find
themselves in that situationwhere you know there's a very
steep mountain ahead, lots ofchaos, rules.
How do you get through thatsuccessfully?
Tracy Nolan (35:20):
Realize that nothing is done in a day, and
you know.
Take a deep breath, figure outwhat's the most critical item
that you need to address today.
Breath, figure out what's themost critical item that you need
to address today.
Don't think about like fixingit all or making all that change
happen immediately.
As long as you're movingforward, that's all.
(35:40):
That is a great step in theright direction.
And don't be afraid.
Like so many people, don't wantto have to give bad news or
have that.
Just be honest and talk to theteam as if you would want to be
talked to, and you canaccomplish a lot and probably
more than you even think you cando if you just take that deep
(36:02):
breath and realize that it can'tbe all done today.
Just focus on the mostimportant.
Tom Mueller (36:08):
Tracy Nolan, thanks so much for joining us today.
Tracy Nolan (36:12):
Thank you, Tom.
Tom Mueller (36:13):
And that's going to do it for this episode of the
Leading in a Crisis podcast.
Thank you again for being withus today.
Hey, if you want to email theshow, you can reach out to me at
tom at leadinginacrisiscom, andwe'll see you again soon on
another episode.
Take care.
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