May 7, 2024 • 39 mins
Imagine carving a path that leaves a trail of inspiration for others to follow. That's the essence of leadership that endures, a theme we unpack with Josh Parnell, a leadership coach with an extraordinary journey from film school to the Air Force. Together, we explore the nuanced art of crafting a legacy, emphasizing adaptability and intention in decision-making. Our conversation reveals how the trials and triumphs of Josh's experiences have cemented his belief in leadership that transcends daily tasks to forge a lasting impact in all facets of life.
Have you ever been weighed down by the relentless pull of negative thoughts? You're not alone. In this episode, we confront this challenge head-on, examining the transformative power of journaling and the science-backed success of writing down goals. Josh shares personal anecdotes from his own goal-setting journey, stressing the importance of actionable steps over distant objectives. We dissect the concept of intentional change, asserting that the most significant shifts stem from the small, deliberate actions we take today.
Lastly, we guide you through the 'J Curve' of growth, a path marked by initial setbacks that pave the way to success. By employing thoughtful communication strategies, leaders can shepherd their teams through this period of discomfort, fostering an environment rich in safety and trust. Drawing parallels with the influential coaching styles of the NFL, we dissect the nuances of servant leadership and the crucial distinction between empathetic listening and mere hearing. It's a candid discussion about the ripple effects of leadership and the role communication plays in shaping a legacy that resonates beyond the boardroom.
Connect with Josh and grab his book:
Josh Parnell | LinkedIn
Josh Parnell | Email
Lead a Legacy Book | Amazon
Limitless Leadership | Website
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Order your copy of Jon's book at RedefineYourServantLeadership.com, and don't forget to utilize the additional resources, or purchase access to the Workbook and Coaching Videos.
Send your Leadership and Business questions to Jon at podcast@leadwell.com.
For more information visit https://leadwell.com
The Leadwell Podcast gives mission-driven leaders principled and practical advice to do just that, lead well.
In each episode, your host Jon Kidwell, interviews leaders with great stories, to share strategies that help leaders navigate complex, confusing, and often down-right challenging leadership, personal growth, business, and workplace culture situations.
Jon is a nonprofit executive turned coach, speaker, author, and CEO of a leadership development company. In working with nonprofits and businesses, big and small, he realized the unique challenges leaders face when they are committed to keeping the mission and people the top priority. Those leaders’ commitment to their principles and the people they lead, plus seeing the need for more leaders who strive to do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons, is what inspired Jon to start a leadership development company dedicated to the success of mission-driven leaders and their organiza...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jon Kidwell (00:00):
Welcome to the Lead Well podcast, the podcast where
we interview mission-drivenleaders who are doing it well.
We ask them what they're doingand how they're doing it to help
you lead your business and yourpeople well, have you ever
thought about the legacy thatyou're leaving as a leader?
Many of us don't spend a wholelot of time thinking about that,
(00:21):
and yet that's one of the keysof leading is that we are
reproducing and replicatingourselves and helping people to
achieve a big old shared purpose.
And today's guest, josh Parnell, is the author of Leading a
Legacy and he is the founder ofLimitless Leadership.
He is a leadership coach and hehas been helping develop
leaders for over 20 years.
(00:42):
While it may have started with afun story about film school,
the United States Air Force andeverything in between, he's
going to walk us through how wegot here today and how we can
lead a legacy where we are atwork, in life, with the people
around us.
Let's jump right in with Josh.
Josh, my friend, I am so gladthat you are here with us today
(01:17):
on the Leadwell Podcast.
I cannot wait to dive in and,as everybody else can see, we
are on location because if youhave not yet watched Josh and I
on his podcast.
You need to do that right.
Josh Parnell (01:27):
This is the trade.
Jon Kidwell (01:28):
So thank you for being here and trading.
It's such a great thing to beable to get to know you better.
Have you on the podcast.
Josh Parnell (01:34):
John.
Thank you, man.
Thank you for having me.
It's an honor to be here andcertainly a pleasure.
I'm excited to do this with you.
Jon Kidwell (01:39):
So I'm going to ask Josh all about his book Leading
a Legacy, and you all can getit.
You can get it on Amazon.
I'll let Josh tell you moreabout wherever you can get it
elsewhere.
But one of the things that Ithought was really cool that you
all heard in the opening is howyou got into the military, and
I am just.
I am grateful for your service,Thank you.
(02:01):
And I love the different storiesof what people pick up through
that and how they've kind ofworked through that.
So if you wouldn't mind justsharing with everybody a little
bit of that journey, especiallykind of that military lens to
all of the wonderful family thatyou have and how we're here
today, Of course.
Josh Parnell (02:15):
Well, man, I appreciate the opportunity to
share and once again, thank youfor having me on.
Yeah, you know, my journeybegins after high school.
I had hopes and dreams andaspirations of going into
Hollywood to become the nextSteven Spielberg.
So clearly that did not happen.
But back then I had a stronginterest in filmmaking and I
found out that the University ofNorth Texas in Denton, near
(02:36):
Dallas, had a great radio, TVand film program.
So I went to UNT and I plannedon being there for four years.
But after a year and a half,UNT said hey, Josh, thanks for
playing, but your grades areterrible.
Jon Kidwell (02:46):
You need to leave.
We've learned just enough to dopodcasts at the level that we
do them right, exactly right.
Josh Parnell (02:51):
So clearly I had a lot of growing up to do.
I wasn't making school apriority.
I knew that I couldn't go backto school, I didn't want to come
back home.
But this was around time that9-11 happened and that really
impacted me on a pretty greatlevel, and so I decided to look
into the military and I foundout that videography was a
career field available in theAir Force.
(03:12):
So I went to my nearest AirForce recruiter's office and
walked in and introduced myselfand I said, hey, you know I have
an interest in filmmaking.
He said well, great, we havevideography available.
He said now, just so.
You know it's not availableright now, but when you get into
basic training it will be.
All you got to do is sign thedotted line and I was like all
right, let's do this, sign me upAgain.
Unt dismissed me for a reasonright.
(03:34):
So I wasn't the sharpest toolin the shed, but I took him for
his word and I signed the dottedline without a guaranteed job,
expecting to go into the AirForce to eventually become a
filmmaker in the Air Force.
But of course, when I got intothe Air Force, videography was
(03:55):
still not available.
So, much to my dismay, I wasgoing to be doing something
different, but I said that'sokay.
This was the first time I had achoice to make.
I had a decision to make andrecognize look, everything
happens for a reason.
I think we've all heard thephrase if you want to make God
laugh, tell him what your plansare.
And he got a good chuckle outof my plans and pretty quickly
course corrected me accordingly.
Now an important part of thestory is that as I get into
(04:17):
basic training, everyone firesthe M16.
And at the time I think nowit's the M4, but at the time it
was the M16 rifle and I hadnever shot a weapon in my life.
So I'm going into basictraining.
Jon Kidwell (04:28):
What are you talking about Like you're in
Texas, like I'm in Texas?
You don't just walk around withthis in your pocket.
Josh Parnell (04:34):
Hey, hey, don't let the looks fool you.
If you're watching this episode, you know I have a beard.
I probably look like I gohunting quite a bit.
I've actually never hunted aday in my life.
Jon Kidwell (04:43):
So newsflash for everyone that's not in Texas.
That is one of the things thatis very common, but neither one
of us actually go into any ofthose things.
Josh Parnell (04:51):
Hey, you know, I grew up playing sports.
That was something that thatthat really was a passion of
mine, but I had never shot aweapon, and so I got pretty
minimal instruction in basictraining and I tried my best,
but I was a bad shot.
I mean, you know, in order tobecome I wonder why?
Right?
Well, in order to become anexpert marksman in in with the
M16, you have to hit the targetor specific parts of the target
(05:13):
at least 45 times or more out of50 rounds.
And I'll tell you john the, therange instructor, got so
frustrated with me that he threwan extra 30 round magazine in
my rifle, so I did score a 45.
However, it was out of 80rounds.
So the only people who knew thatI shot 80 rounds were me and
the range instructor, becauseeven on my score sheet it showed
(05:35):
a 45 out of 50.
So I jokingly say that I'mstill technically the worst
expert marksman in the historyof the Air Force.
But that's an important part ofthe story, because when it came
time for them to determine whatcareer field I was going to go
into, they said well, you're anexpert marksman, you're going to
be a cop, which is securityforces and I'm thinking like
that's not really my personality.
(05:56):
I mean, can we do somethingdifferent than security forces?
And they're like get out ofhere, you're going to be a cop.
And so, again, I have adecision to make.
Right, we know that not everyday is going to be a good day,
but we can find the good inevery day.
I was not excited about beingin security forces, but once
again, I knew that everything ishappening for a reason, and I
learned then and there also,that the two things that we can
(06:18):
control in our life every day isour attitude and our effort.
And so I'm not saying that it'seasy, but I'm saying it's
possible.
I wasn't excited about what wasto come because that wasn't
what I was planning on doing,but God, of course, course,
corrected me, which I'm thankfulfor, you know, to this day.
But ultimately I said you knowwhat?
Here's the good news If I'mfinding the good in every day.
(06:39):
You know we've heard the phrasewhen it rains, it pours.
We can also say when it rains,look for rainbows.
And if I'm looking for rainbows, here's what I know.
I also joined to travel and Ithought you know what Every base
needs a cop, so I can still goto Germany, italy, belgium,
spain.
I wanted to go to Europe, right, I wanted to go overseas, get
some culture under my belt.
But once again, john, the AirForce had other plans.
(07:00):
Instead, they sent me tobeautiful Minot, north Dakota.
John, at this point I'mthinking all right, somebody
does not like me in the airforce.
I joined to be a filmmaker inItaly and instead I'm a cop in
North Dakota.
Jon Kidwell (07:15):
But I will tell you , man, you know, in all
seriousness, I am I'm sorry, I'mlaughing because I have a very
dear friend who was in Minotflying bombers, wow and what I
know about Minot is the nearesttarget is two hours away.
So for those of us that can'tcontextualize what might be
going on in Minot and we're tooyoung to fully comprehend the
Fargo movie, just know that yournearest target is two hour
(07:37):
drive.
Josh Parnell (07:37):
I'll tell you, man , it was a culture shock, to say
the least.
I wanted to get some cultureunder my belt, but that's not
the culture I was looking for.
Jon Kidwell (07:45):
So I'll say that, okay, so if we could, before we
go on, I want to pull because somany of us especially lately,
especially for the listeners wework in organizations, we're
mid-level executives, we'remanagers, we're leaders, and
sometimes organizations havedifferent ideas than what I have
, and that's a lot of what Iheard in your story is,
(08:07):
university had a different planfor me than I had for me, that
the military had this, that Imay have been bait and switched,
and then I find myself as a copand, okay, you're talking now
to the manager, to thatmid-level executive, maybe to
someone that's a CEO, that'skind of quote, unquote, topped
out, and maybe they got toswitch industries or they're
being told they got to switchindustries.
(08:29):
What, what lesson and kind ofwhat would you tell them from
your story on how to have theattitude, the effort and to kind
of take control of where youare inside of places?
Josh Parnell (08:43):
you might be moved that you don't.
You don't think you want to go.
You just said the key wordcontrol.
Focus on what you can controland try your best not to worry
about what you can't control.
You know what I could havecontrolled when I was at UNT my
grades right.
I mean I could have controlledthat.
If I had done a little moreresearch, I could have
controlled what career field Iwas going to get into in the Air
Force.
There's certainly learningcurves that we're going to go
(09:05):
through.
We're going to talk about alearning curve here in a bit.
But there's learning curvesthat we go through.
But ultimately, trust theprocess.
Focus on what you can control.
Invest in yourself, pour intoyourself.
Hire a mentor, hire a coach.
Find someone who's willing togive you the hard truth.
Jon Kidwell (09:28):
Find someone who's willing to help you with
perspective, because withperspective, the way that we
view things drives the way thatwe do things, but ultimately
focus on what you can controland try your best not to worry
about what you can't control.
Yeah, that is so, so good, andjust from your attitude, and one
that has chosen to move andbeen moved, I think, going into
it, I had the encouragement oncefrom someone that said focus on
(09:49):
the work and doing the workthat you can do and that you
want to do, and it goes back toyour attitude thing, right.
So okay, if you want to gothere, how do you tie it in with
your ultimate kind of goals andwhere you might be going?
Sure, how can you flip this tobe a time of learning, of paid
practice, of whatever it mightbe for what you got coming?
Because your attitude justvibes off of it so much and I
(10:12):
get it so much when I readthrough the book, especially
that story.
Way fun to hear live.
I'm so glad you all got tobecause it's there.
But talking to us about leadinga legacy which you got to take
control and ownership of thelegacy you want to lead, what is
the theme and what you hopepeople pull out of that book?
Josh Parnell (10:32):
Sure.
So the subtitle of the book ishow to Live Today to Make an
Impact for Tomorrow and for alot of coaches whether you're
coaching people in leadership,whether you're coaching people
in finance, whether you're afitness coach a lot of coaches
need to begin with mindset,because what we know is that our
thoughts will dictate ourfeelings, and our feelings will
(10:53):
dictate our actions, and ouractions will dictate our legacy.
So if we want to change ourlegacy, it begins with our
thoughts.
Here's the problem, though.
Studies show that humans haveup to 60,000 thoughts per day.
I just had seven.
Jon Kidwell (11:06):
There you go Right.
Josh Parnell (11:07):
Hey, let the rest of the day go by, because you're
going to have a lot more.
But 60,000 a day.
And studies also show that 80%of those thoughts are negative
and 90% of those thoughts arerepetitive.
So it's no wonder why weregularly experience stress and
worry and doubt and concern andanxiety and fear.
Jon Kidwell (11:23):
Can you say that was a?
Can you say that again?
Because that was powerful.
How many, how many thoughts arenegative?
Josh Parnell (11:28):
80% of our 60,000 of 60,000.
Jon Kidwell (11:31):
And then this one was the key to me when I think
about when I'm stuck in a loop.
What did you just say about the?
Josh Parnell (11:36):
90% of those thoughts, oh my goodness.
And so, a lot of listeners, youcan think to your own thoughts
and, yeah, like I get it now,like I understand, and you know,
we saw an uptick in anxiety in2020 when COVID hit right, and
so, for a lot of us, werecognize how these thoughts.
Of course, we're going to haveanxiety and stress if we don't
(11:56):
know how to manage our thoughts,but we also know that fear is
typically the root of a lot ofthe thoughts that stem from
limiting beliefs, and we knowthat fear is simply false
evidence appearing real and, asour boy John Acuff would say, we
know that one of the greatestmistakes any of us can make is
assuming all of our thoughts aretrue, and so we're always gonna
find evidence in the thingsthat we believe.
How can we start shifting aparadigm and challenging the
(12:19):
thoughts that we're having?
We've talked before about howit's so important to ask
questions.
Ask questions of those thatwe're leading, but also asking
questions of ourselves.
Start challenging the thoughtsthat we're having by asking
questions about those thoughts.
It's almost like thisverbalization of journaling.
I'm a big believer injournaling, which I talk about
in chapter one of the book, andwith journaling, the things that
(12:41):
we write are the things that weinvite.
So I'm going to share anotherstat with you that's really
eye-opening for a lot of folks.
We have a 42% more likelychance of achieving our goals by
simply writing them down.
And when I say we're writinggoals down, but we're also
writing down our thoughts.
By doing so, we're able to getclarity and direction through
(13:04):
the process.
I want to take a step back for asecond, john, and share how a
goal of mine was to go to UNT,and another goal of mine was to
go to Hollywood, to be the nextSteven Spielberg, to go into
filmmaking in the Air Force.
All of these are easy to setgoals on.
Oh, what do you want to do?
This is what I want to do.
Boom, just set a goal, just setfour goals right.
(13:24):
Where I failed when I wasyounger was, you know, in the
book Seven Habits of HighlyEffective People, stephen Covey
talks about beginning with theend in mind, and the key is
beginning, because my end inmind was Hollywood.
My end in mind was filmmaking.
My end in mind was fill in theblank.
Where I failed was shifting myfocus from the end in mind to
the steps that I need to take inorder to get there and this is
(13:47):
where a lot of folks makemistakes on is what's your goal?
I want to lose weight and eathealthy right, that's the number
one new year's resolution everysingle year, right?
So how are we going to do that?
This is where we need to stayfocused on the steps that we
take in order to get here, buttoo many of us are so caught up
and just creating the goal andalmost like a wishful thinking
(14:08):
yeah, and, and so theopportunity is to you're trying
you mean manifesting it, you'retrying.
Jon Kidwell (14:12):
Hey, there you go, yeah, yeah, a more a're
manifesting it.
Josh Parnell (14:14):
You're trying to manifest it.
There you go.
Yeah, A better way to say it,yeah, I'm going to manifest this
weight loss this year, right,but this is an opportunity area
that a lot of us don't capture,which is what you said earlier
putting in the work.
We've got to do the work.
Jon Kidwell (14:27):
Yeah, wow, I think that was a great tie back into
how do I live today with smallsteps, which you and I are huge
fans of.
Right, and we keep pulling onthe thread that if you haven't
yet watched the episode on JoshParnell leadership podcast, you
need to go do that.
You just pair really welltogether.
The only problem is you get tolisten to both of us, but that's
also a good thing.
So, so there you go, but backinto this and what you talked
(14:51):
about in the subtitle live.
There you go, but back intothis and what you talked about
in the subtitle live today tomake an impact for tomorrow.
And you just talked about all ofthese baby steps and I'm I'm
thinking specifically around thechapter of effect change yes,
and drawn back into that ceothat's looking and saying the
things like this is a big shipand I don't know if we can turn
the big ship.
And if we do take the big ship,it takes time, right, like
we've all heard that type of oryou're, you're in the middle of
(15:13):
the organization, saying look,josh, like I'm trying to meet
the needs of my team, serve themwell, and I'm also getting it
from above with my leaders andyou, you want me to affect
change and I'm just trying toget through the day.
Yeah, Right, so what can Istart focusing on and how can I
start doing this and affectingchange from where I am today?
Josh Parnell (15:35):
Great question, John.
So intentionality,intentionality plus time spent
equals value received andintentionality.
Jon Kidwell (15:43):
Okay, so I'm thinking about what I'm doing.
I'm you're, you're baking intome that I have to think about
what I want to do.
Kind of begin with the end ofmine.
Josh Parnell (15:50):
Yeah.
Jon Kidwell (15:51):
Time spent so um with my team in research and my
PB and J right Pause books injournal or prayer, bible and
journal in the morning, whateverthat is.
Like you're telling me, I gotto do these things, I got to
spend time in that, and then thevalue is what is produced
Ultimately you get the valuethat, but here's what is
(16:11):
produced Ultimately.
Josh Parnell (16:12):
you get the value, but here's.
Here's the thing.
A lot of us we start outintentionally and we start out
investing in the time, but wetrail off, and that's really
what a lot of chapter fiveaffecting change talks about.
Jon Kidwell (16:23):
Well then, help us because, like you said and you
and I know this cause, we bothdo trainings If you don't do
anything with the trainingwithin 48 hours is gone, you
just it's not going to happen.
And if there's not something tosupplement it, if we're not
following up, if we're notinviting coaching, if we're not
doing some of those things tohelp with the application and
you do something about it, thediminishing value is still there
(16:45):
, right?
So this is, this is everywhere.
Sure, help us, take thatintentionality and keep it on
the tracks.
Josh Parnell (16:52):
Yeah Well you know , with training, you know, we
know that the fortune is in thefollowup, and so, for a lot of
us, we go to training and that'sgreat, but, to your point, 70%
of what you got today isforgotten tomorrow and 90% is
forgotten in 30 days.
So what are you doing with the,with the content and the
curriculum that you justreceived?
What are you doing to focus onaffecting change through new
information?
(17:13):
You know, I begin the chapterby asking a question, and the
question is would you ratherthat I give you $1 million in
cash, tax-free, in hand rightnow, john?
Jon Kidwell (17:25):
I'm tempted.
I'm tempted right.
Josh Parnell (17:27):
Or I give you one penny that's going to duplicate
in value each day over thecourse of the next 30 days.
So just for-.
Jon Kidwell (17:34):
This is like that old marshmallow test Like, do
you?
Want one marshmallow now, or doyou want two marshmallows later
?
This is what I'm feeling, likeyou're asking me.
Josh Parnell (17:40):
Well, I want to make sure I'm being clear with
the audience.
So today it's one cent,tomorrow it's two cents, day
three it's four cents, eightcents, 16 cents and so forth and
so on.
So which of those would youtake a million dollars right now
?
But what if I die on day four,josh?
Then you probably should take amillion dollars four days ago.
All right, yeah.
Jon Kidwell (17:57):
Yeah, but this is the, this is the real poll,
right, and we're talking aboutcompound interest and that type
of thing, Right?
But it's I'm sitting here andthinking like, well, it depends,
like I could do a lot of thingswith those million dollars
Exactly.
And uh, and I know where you'retrying to build to.
Yeah, I do know, yeah, so helpme want that piece of it.
(18:17):
Of course I want to take thepenny, of course.
Josh Parnell (18:20):
So why do I?
Jon Kidwell (18:21):
want to take the penny and tell me how much it's
going to be worth to me.
Josh Parnell (18:23):
Absolutely.
Well, you know, uh, disparityin $1 million versus a
compounding penny, to where thelistener's probably thinking,
well, there's got to be a catchhere, or I feel like it's the
penny, but it just doesn'tmathematically make sense right
now, without me seeing the chart.
But if you do see the chart inchapter five of the book, you'll
(18:44):
see that just 10 days later, 10days ago, you could have had a
million dollars.
10 days later you're only at$5.12.
And another 10 days after thatyou're at $5,242.
But here's where what youshared earlier compound interest
, the compound effect takesplace day 27.
You're at $671,000.
(19:06):
The next day you're at 1.3 andsome change.
By day 30, John, you're at $5.3million.
30 days.
Jon Kidwell (19:14):
Not 30 years, right 30 days, because all of our
retirement people tell us after30 years you'll be a millionaire
.
You're telling me 30 days of adoubling penny or a doubling
value Right, and all of a sudden, 30 days in.
I'm well beyond $5.3 million 5Xthat return.
Josh Parnell (19:31):
It's crazy to think right, but here's the
thing.
This is where theintentionality plus the time
spent equals value received.
I want to go back to losingweight and eating healthy.
Every year, the number one NewYear's resolution for
resolutioners is to lose weightand eat healthy, which I think
is that it's about 25% ofresolutioners want to lose
weight and eat healthy.
So if we're putting ourselvesinto 25%, what are some things
(19:54):
that we're going to start doingin order to lose weight and eat
healthy?
We're going to go get a gymmembership if we don't already
have one, so we're going tospend money on a gym membership.
We're going to replace a lot ofour sugary, starchy foods in
our fridge and pantry and soforth with the sugar-free, the
calorie-free, carb-free productsthat are going to taste like
(20:15):
cardboard, but we're going togrin and bear it.
Hey we're trying to get six-packabs.
Hey man, crunchy granola allthe way, let's do this, so we're
going to hey, you know what,John.
Jon Kidwell (20:22):
Until nighttime.
Then it's ice cream time.
Josh Parnell (20:29):
I'm going to go buy new running shoes because'm
going to start meal prepping.
These are all the things thatI'm going to start doing.
Oh, I found a treadmill onCraigslist.
I bought that too right?
I'm doing all these things andI haven't even started working
out yet, and so then we're goingto start working out, we're
going to wake up a little bitearlier each day, we're going to
start meal prepping, we'regoing to go to the gym and we do
fine for the first week or two,but what happens is life.
(20:53):
Life happens For a lot of us.
We're trying to make thismassive 180-degree shift
overnight and we know thatultimately, that's not
sustainable.
There is literally a day in theyear, called Quitter's Day,
which falls on the second Fridayin January Because,
statistically speaking, by thesecond Friday in January, over
half of the New Year'sresolutioners have already quit
(21:15):
their New Year's resolutions.
And so when I talk about how,how important it is to recognize
the learning curve and to gothrough things in order to grow
through things, if we're goingback to let's, let's step back
for a second and look at thechart on in chapter five On day
20, we're only at $20.
So so keep in mind this is likeif we're, if we're shifting to
(21:38):
our own life and we tried towork out, need healthy, I'm
sorry.
On day 12, we're shifting toour own life and we tried to
work out and eat healthy, I'msorry.
On day 12, we're at $20.
By the way, the reason I'msaying 12 is because on this
year, quitter's Day fell onJanuary 12th.
So on January 12th, that'sQuitter's Day.
This year, if I'm looking atthe chart, I'm only at $20 on
day 12.
(21:58):
Yeah, that's not veryencouraging and it's not yet a
million dollars.
It's not.
And this is why people quit,because we overestimate what we
can accomplish in a month, butwe underestimate what we can
accomplish in a year, or fiveyears, or 10 years.
Or 30 days, or 30 days becauseintentionality plus time spent
equals value received.
So this falls in line with theJ curve.
(22:21):
We talk about a J curve andwhat the J curve looks like is
literally a letter J, and if youpicture the letter J, you can
you know we're starting on thelower end of the letter J.
Jon Kidwell (22:31):
Okay, so I'm not going to do it like I draw, but
I start kind of where I finishwhen I write Correct, correct.
Josh Parnell (22:37):
So you're starting on the lower end of the J and
the intent is to ultimately beon the higher end of the J.
So this is the equivalent ofgoing from good to great right.
Jon Kidwell (22:45):
Or I like to say great to greater.
Josh Parnell (22:47):
So let's say we're starting on the lower end of
the J and we're trying newthings.
We're implementing theseconcepts that we learned in
training through coaching.
What have you right?
We're trying new things.
Naturally it's going to feeldifferent, because it is.
It's going to feel awkward,it's going to feel challenging,
it's going to be uncomfortable,but we're going to get
(23:09):
comfortable being uncomfortable.
We know that growth and comfortcannot coexist.
They do not.
So what we do is we recognizethere should be and will be an
inevitable dip in progress, insuccess, in accuracy, in
efficiency.
So what happens is we'restarting to follow the path of
that J, right, and you'll noticethat there is that's the curve.
(23:31):
You know the term learningcurve is a real thing, because
you have to go through thiscurve in order to grow through
this curve.
But what happens is we get tothe bottom of the dip and we
quit in the dip.
Jon Kidwell (23:42):
Yeah, because it's exhausting, because I don't even
feel like I have $12 becauseI've spent $1,200 on all of
these equipment I've invested mytime.
And guess what?
This J curve is not just foryou.
Seth Godin wrote a book calledthe Dip, and all of us do it.
We get up and then we come down.
Organizational change models wego up because we launched this
(24:05):
new thing.
Everyone's super excited.
We don't have a system and wedon't follow through.
And we go down and if we don'tfigure those things out, we
never come back up.
That's it.
Josh Parnell (24:12):
So how do we come back up, well, I think it begins
spent equals value received.
I can't, I really can'temphasize that enough, because
we have to recognize there'sgoing to be a dip.
So, first, recognize andacknowledge there's going to be
a dip.
And for a lot of us, we get onday 12 of January of 2024 and we
(24:35):
say you know what?
It's not working.
I'm going to go back to how Iwas doing it.
Good was good, right, it wasn'tgreat, but I'll tolerate, good,
I'll settle.
Jon Kidwell (24:43):
This is just how it's going to be.
Josh Parnell (24:44):
I'll settle for good.
You know, John, one of myfavorite quotes comes from Brian
Wilson of the Beach Boys, andhe says beware the lollipop of
mediocrity.
Lick it once and you'll suckforever.
Oh, that was a good one.
We want to recognize that we'regoing to go through something
and subsequently grow throughsomething, but we have to know
(25:06):
it's going to take some time.
Jon Kidwell (26:32):
o okay, so I'm being intentional, I'm putting
in the time.
The super great thing that Ithink about is if I am a leader
in an organization or of a team,this immediately is starting to
create ripple effects beyond me, and so this feels to me like
the beginning of a legacy andthat perhaps, yeah, I'm $12 in,
(26:54):
or I'm $1,200 in and you've toldme this is coming, so walk me
through, kind of.
If I'm going through hell, howdo I keep going?
Right that kind of idea so thatI can see the things that are
happening around me and I startto see the ripples of all of
these change.
Where would you take me?
If I'm committed, I'm throughthe dip, I'm coming up the
(27:15):
upside, I'm committed to beingintentional, to putting in the
time.
I got glimmers of hope.
Tell me how we get past thatmillion dollars.
Josh Parnell (27:23):
It starts with communication.
You know, john, any change thatgets made, big or small, it's
going to start raising someeyebrows.
The questions are going tostart getting asked.
We, as leaders, want to makesure that we're providing two
things for every person.
Every person deserves twothings in any relationship,
especially professionallyclarity and direction.
So, as leadership coaches, youknow that we want to create two
(27:43):
things so that we can providetwo things.
We want to create safety andtrust so that we can provide
clarity and direction.
Any team member that you'releading, you want to establish
safety and trust so that you canprovide clarity and direction.
It begins with communication.
Jon Kidwell (27:56):
So talk us through that.
Just yeah, communicating, takeme down the path of
communicating, because I've donethis way too many times.
I get into that meeting andI've gone through a book like
yours and all of a sudden I'mlike, yes, this is what I'm
going to do, this is how I'mgoing to change.
And I show up in that Mondaymeeting and all of a sudden I'm
just like I mean, guys, we'vealways done it this way, like
(28:24):
this is just how it abandon whatI used to think, or the fact
that I've completely disregardedthat.
I may have quit some sort oforganizational change management
model on January 12, whateverthat might be, but I've brought
in this new thing.
So help me communicate in a waythat shows that this is a
process and that we're makingprogress.
Josh Parnell (28:36):
We know that nothing changes if nothing
changes, and so one thing thatthe entire team needs to know is
that we're going to be pivotingaccordingly If we're
recognizing the three questions.
Which is where are we going?
That's our vision.
How are we getting there?
That's our mission.
Why are we doing it?
That's our purpose.
There are pieces of each thatcould change to some degree
(28:58):
because we're trying to makesure that we are still driving
towards the ultimate visionthat's been casted and the
mission that's going to take usthere, but as things change,
questions start arising.
So I like to implement the fivesteps to effective communication
through what I call afoundational conversation.
So foundational conversationsare important for any team
(29:18):
member, regardless of tenure, ofcourse.
As a new person on board, whenyou're onboarding someone, you
want to walk them through whatthe expectations looks like,
what the standards looks like,what the culture is, and ask
them any questions that you canthink of that will help them
recognize that we're all on thesame team.
It's a we before me mentality,but even with tenured team
(29:39):
members, it's okay to sit downand reestablish the foundational
conversation because you'relaying the groundwork, you're
creating a firm foundation foreveryone a part of the team.
So the five steps I like to walkthrough is first, assume
positive intent.
Recognize that we may notalways make the same decision
that each other would, but it'scoming from a good place.
People don't care how much youknow until they know how much
(30:01):
you care, and so when someoneknows truly how much we care
about each other on a team, weknow that we can assume positive
intent.
The second is to seek first tounderstand than to be understood
.
Too often we as leaders aretrying to provide directives
versus direction, and we canprovide direction through
questions.
One of the questions is hey,help me understand, help me
(30:21):
understand what's going on right.
So I'm not going to go to youand immediately give you a
directive without asking somequestions.
I want to help you learn how tobecome a better problem solver
and critical thinker, someonewho can think outside the box
through asking questions.
Jon Kidwell (30:34):
I hope everybody that's listening all of a sudden
starts to see how this startsto lead a legacy, because now
you are a leader who'sdeveloping leaders just by the
way that you are leading.
That is exactly where you aretaking us right here In sports
analogies.
Josh Parnell (30:48):
To me it's like a coaching tree.
You look at coaching trees inthe NFL.
I think Andy Reid.
He just came off his thirdSuper Bowl win in the last five
years or so and he's developed acoaching tree over the years.
It's very similar.
As a leader, what you're doingis you are as a servant leader,
as you know, john, you'repouring into people, you're
investing in people.
You are so focused on thegrowth and development of people
(31:12):
for the sake of them being ableto create a legacy for
themselves.
Like, ultimately, we're allgoing to be leaving a legacy at
the end of our life.
So the legacy that we'releading today determines the
legacy that we're leavingtomorrow.
So, as we get into the thirdstep of effective communication,
something I like to talk aboutis falling in love with asking
(31:33):
questions.
We're asking a lot of questionsand, of course, when uh when
we're asking questions.
The fourth step is listening,and I think the key here is
knowing that there's adifference between listening and
hearing.
If we're hearing someone, we'resimply waiting for them to stop
talking so we can tell themwhat we want to say.
If we're listening, we'rereceiving information, we're
processing information and we'reutilizing that information to
(31:55):
best serve that person, but,furthermore, listening
empathetically.
I think empathy is anopportunity that a lot of
leaders are not capturing, andwhat I mean by this is
empathizing with someone doesn'tmean that we necessarily have
to experience the same situationas that person, but it does
mean that we can imagine theircircumstances and accept their
(32:18):
feelings without invalidatingthem, and I think the key word
here is invalidating them.
Sometimes we inadvertentlyinvalidate when we don't listen.
We simply hear them, becausewe're listening to respond
versus listening to understand.
Jon Kidwell (32:31):
Or I take my own thing of.
I don't know that I can handlewhat you're throwing at me,
that's so good.
And so I, to protect myself,have to shut it down, when in
reality, just accepting it, nottaking it on as something that I
have to carry for you, but thatwe can be with each other
together, is somewhere that wecan move kind of through that
(32:55):
and beyond it and I can stillserve you.
Josh Parnell (32:57):
Something I've learned over the years, john, is
how important it is just to youcan literally verbalize empathy
through modeling it like thisyou thank the person for sharing
this with you.
John, I want to thank you forsharing this with me.
I want to acknowledge yourfeelings and validate what you
shared.
I want you to know that I'mhere for you.
I'm going to do everything Ican to serve you and support you
(33:17):
in the best way possible.
So, just starting withsomething like that, they feel
heard, understood andacknowledged.
And so I think, for a lot offolks, when we don't validate
the feelings, that again, thatyou don't necessarily have to
completely understand, butyou're accepting those feelings
of that person withoutinvalidating them, that can go a
(33:37):
long way in leadership.
And lastly, is staying positive.
And so there's kind of athree-piece combo with staying
positive, and that is toimplement the no complaining
rule.
So we know, man, when we'restarting complaining about
things, we're allowingnegativity and toxicity to seep
in and creep in, which canreally be detrimental to the
(33:59):
culture of the organization.
We also want to make sure thatwhen there is a problem, we're
going to pair that with asolution.
Now, here's the thing, john,one thing I've learned and I
think you and I even talkedabout this off camera is this
applies at work.
It doesn't always apply at home, sometimes.
What?
Jon Kidwell (34:18):
are you trying to tell me, Josh?
Josh Parnell (34:20):
Sometimes our spouse may not want us to to
bring a solution, and vice versa, you know, I think it's okay to
admit that.
Look, there are times whenventing can be healthy.
And if there's a time when youknow our spouse is sharing a
problem with us.
Something my wife and I havehave gotten pretty pretty good
at is asking each other inadvance Do you want me to listen
(34:41):
or do you want me to reply?
Essentially, I'm saying I'masking do you want me to provide
a solution or do you want me tojust listen, because I need to
know how you need me to show upfor you in this moment.
Jon Kidwell (34:51):
Yeah, one of the things that we use and say is I
can contain that, right, if youjust have to vent, I can contain
that and I can move forwardafter this without being
emotionally hijacked.
Contain that, and I can moveforward after this without being
emotionally hijacked, withouthaving to come in and do that.
And I just it keyed on it whenyou were saying it that
sometimes it's still a problemin a solution, but it doesn't
(35:12):
mean that we have to bring thesolution.
Yeah, that's so good Means thatwe need to be the one to help
get to a solution.
And that might just be.
What do you want to do?
Right, that's right.
What do you think?
Or was was that the solution?
Like, is there anything else?
Sometimes the vent sesh is justit, and that is, in fact, the
solution.
I've discharged and now I'mgood, I can move right.
So I I still feel like there'salways a resolution and a
(35:36):
solution.
That's there, even with ourwives sorry, meg, uh, but I I
promise not to solve all of themunless I'm invited into it.
And it's still, there is arelease.
Josh Parnell (35:47):
There's also a time and place, because it
doesn't mean that just becausewe're not developing a solution
right now doesn't mean that aresolution will come right.
So we're just planting the seedand we're sharing with our
partner how we can show up forthem.
Jon Kidwell (36:00):
You mean, we don't have to solve every problem
every single day, we do notactually have to do that.
That's the crazy thing, right.
Josh Parnell (36:06):
But going back to communication, what we know is
that when there's a breakdown incommunication, voids tend to
get created and oftentimesnegativity fills those voids.
So when I talk about theimportance of communication, we
also know that there areoftentimes three different
conversations happening for theone that's actually happening,
which is the one that you'rehaving, the one that I'm having
and the one that we're having.
So one of the greatestmisconceptions about
(36:28):
communication is the fact thatit's actually happening.
So this you know, implementingthe five steps to effective
communication allows you to getrealigned with your team so that
we can collectively we beforeme, we can collectively move
that mission towards the visionthat was casted, even as changes
do begin to occur.
Jon Kidwell (36:48):
And I just I hope that you all are so encouraged
about kind of the intentionality, the time spent, the value
received, and then how to workthrough that in communication.
Josh, before I turn it over,you tell everybody about where
to get the book, where they canget all the end pieces that we
haven't had time to cover yettoday, and I ask you a question
what's something that you wantto share, that you want to point
(37:11):
people to in the book, orthat's just a good piece to know
?
Josh Parnell (37:15):
before we go.
Thank you for asking, john.
I think that, ultimately,something I struggled with as
I've gotten older, even into myadulthood, was I didn't fully
believe that I was a leader, andI think it's important to share
with everyone.
If you're listening to thispodcast, no matter your tenure,
no matter what title you hold,even if you don't have a job,
(37:36):
you are a leader.
Because being a leader meansthat you are a leader, yeah,
amen.
Because with, with, with a,being a leader means that you
have a perspective that no oneelse has, so you have your own
unique individual perspectivethat makes you one of one you're
.
There's no one else in theworld like you.
So, with perspective, you havethe ability to be influential,
and if you can be influential,you can affect change.
(37:57):
Anyone who is a change agent isa leader a good friend that
that.
Jon Kidwell (38:03):
He said he walked into a training and he walked up
to the table and it said thistable is reserved for leaders.
And he walked to the next tableand said this table is reserved
for leaders, third table.
He finally got it that it wasfor leaders.
Josh Parnell (38:17):
Love that.
Jon Kidwell (38:18):
You just heard Josh say, for every single one of
you is that you are a leader andyou have a legacy to lead and
leave today.
So where can we get this andlearn more about you, josh, so
that we can continue and maybeeven begin, but at least move
forward in?
Josh Parnell (38:37):
leading a legacy.
Thank you, john.
So you can find Le leading alegacy on Amazon.
You can also purchase the bookuh through my website, which is
limitlessleadershipco.
Uh, not com uh, but co solimitlessleadershipco.
Jon Kidwell (38:50):
It's cool.
Josh Parnell (38:52):
Um, so yeah, limitlessleadershipco, and if
you do purchase through mywebsite, I'll also send a signed
copy, uh, to you.
Jon Kidwell (38:58):
Um and um go there today If you do it right, right,
right, right right now.
I will just take it with me andI'll shoot it to it.
Just kidding, but you should godo that.
Josh Parnell (39:06):
There's more, that's right, but yeah you can
go to Amazon orLimitlessLeadershipco to
purchase Leading a Legacy today,and you can find me on most
social media platforms at theBearded Leader.
So at the Bearded Leader, soyou can see if you're watching
this episode the beard and ofcourse, I am a leadership coach
but at thebeardedleader you canalso find me.
Just search my name, JoshParnell, P-A-R-N-E-L-L, and I'd
(39:30):
love to connect with you.
That's awesome.
Jon Kidwell (39:32):
Josh, thank you for letting me and us come on
location in your home.
We got to do the pod swap,which was super fun Before you
go.
What does it mean to you tolead well?
Josh Parnell (39:48):
John, I think leading well to me means
connection before content.
Jon Kidwell (39:53):
Tell me just a little bit more about that.
Josh Parnell (39:54):
Yeah, being able to connect.
I think we can connect throughthree different ways, which is
authenticity, humility andvulnerability, and I think it's
okay for every leader torecognize you don't have to have
all the answers, you don't haveto be the best at what you do,
but you have to have a heart forserving people and you can
serve people throughauthenticity, humility and
vulnerability when you putconnection before content.
Jon Kidwell (40:16):
Connection before content so that you can lead
well.
This is Josh Parnell.
He leads well wherever he goes.
Thank you so much for can leadwell.
This is Josh Parnell he leadswell wherever he goes.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
We will see you next time anduntil then, be well, lead on and
God bless.
Welcome to the Lead Well podcast, the podcast where
we interview mission-drivenleaders who are doing it well.
We ask them what they're doingand how they're doing it to help
you lead your business and yourpeople well, have you ever
thought about the legacy thatyou're leaving as a leader?
Many of us don't spend a wholelot of time thinking about that,
(00:21):
and yet that's one of the keysof leading is that we are
reproducing and replicatingourselves and helping people to
achieve a big old shared purpose.
And today's guest, josh Parnell, is the author of Leading a
Legacy and he is the founder ofLimitless Leadership.
He is a leadership coach and hehas been helping develop
leaders for over 20 years.
(00:42):
While it may have started with afun story about film school,
the United States Air Force andeverything in between, he's
going to walk us through how wegot here today and how we can
lead a legacy where we are atwork, in life, with the people
around us.
Let's jump right in with Josh.
Josh, my friend, I am so gladthat you are here with us today
(01:17):
on the Leadwell Podcast.
I cannot wait to dive in and,as everybody else can see, we
are on location because if youhave not yet watched Josh and I
on his podcast.
You need to do that right.
Josh Parnell (01:27):
This is the trade.
Jon Kidwell (01:28):
So thank you for being here and trading.
It's such a great thing to beable to get to know you better.
Have you on the podcast.
Josh Parnell (01:34):
John.
Thank you, man.
Thank you for having me.
It's an honor to be here andcertainly a pleasure.
I'm excited to do this with you.
Jon Kidwell (01:39):
So I'm going to ask Josh all about his book Leading
a Legacy, and you all can getit.
You can get it on Amazon.
I'll let Josh tell you moreabout wherever you can get it
elsewhere.
But one of the things that Ithought was really cool that you
all heard in the opening is howyou got into the military, and
I am just.
I am grateful for your service,Thank you.
(02:01):
And I love the different storiesof what people pick up through
that and how they've kind ofworked through that.
So if you wouldn't mind justsharing with everybody a little
bit of that journey, especiallykind of that military lens to
all of the wonderful family thatyou have and how we're here
today, Of course.
Josh Parnell (02:15):
Well, man, I appreciate the opportunity to
share and once again, thank youfor having me on.
Yeah, you know, my journeybegins after high school.
I had hopes and dreams andaspirations of going into
Hollywood to become the nextSteven Spielberg.
So clearly that did not happen.
But back then I had a stronginterest in filmmaking and I
found out that the University ofNorth Texas in Denton, near
(02:36):
Dallas, had a great radio, TVand film program.
So I went to UNT and I plannedon being there for four years.
But after a year and a half,UNT said hey, Josh, thanks for
playing, but your grades areterrible.
Jon Kidwell (02:46):
You need to leave.
We've learned just enough to dopodcasts at the level that we
do them right, exactly right.
Josh Parnell (02:51):
So clearly I had a lot of growing up to do.
I wasn't making school apriority.
I knew that I couldn't go backto school, I didn't want to come
back home.
But this was around time that9-11 happened and that really
impacted me on a pretty greatlevel, and so I decided to look
into the military and I foundout that videography was a
career field available in theAir Force.
(03:12):
So I went to my nearest AirForce recruiter's office and
walked in and introduced myselfand I said, hey, you know I have
an interest in filmmaking.
He said well, great, we havevideography available.
He said now, just so.
You know it's not availableright now, but when you get into
basic training it will be.
All you got to do is sign thedotted line and I was like all
right, let's do this, sign me upAgain.
Unt dismissed me for a reasonright.
(03:34):
So I wasn't the sharpest toolin the shed, but I took him for
his word and I signed the dottedline without a guaranteed job,
expecting to go into the AirForce to eventually become a
filmmaker in the Air Force.
But of course, when I got intothe Air Force, videography was
(03:55):
still not available.
So, much to my dismay, I wasgoing to be doing something
different, but I said that'sokay.
This was the first time I had achoice to make.
I had a decision to make andrecognize look, everything
happens for a reason.
I think we've all heard thephrase if you want to make God
laugh, tell him what your plansare.
And he got a good chuckle outof my plans and pretty quickly
course corrected me accordingly.
Now an important part of thestory is that as I get into
(04:17):
basic training, everyone firesthe M16.
And at the time I think nowit's the M4, but at the time it
was the M16 rifle and I hadnever shot a weapon in my life.
So I'm going into basictraining.
Jon Kidwell (04:28):
What are you talking about Like you're in
Texas, like I'm in Texas?
You don't just walk around withthis in your pocket.
Josh Parnell (04:34):
Hey, hey, don't let the looks fool you.
If you're watching this episode, you know I have a beard.
I probably look like I gohunting quite a bit.
I've actually never hunted aday in my life.
Jon Kidwell (04:43):
So newsflash for everyone that's not in Texas.
That is one of the things thatis very common, but neither one
of us actually go into any ofthose things.
Josh Parnell (04:51):
Hey, you know, I grew up playing sports.
That was something that thatthat really was a passion of
mine, but I had never shot aweapon, and so I got pretty
minimal instruction in basictraining and I tried my best,
but I was a bad shot.
I mean, you know, in order tobecome I wonder why?
Right?
Well, in order to become anexpert marksman in in with the
M16, you have to hit the targetor specific parts of the target
(05:13):
at least 45 times or more out of50 rounds.
And I'll tell you john the, therange instructor, got so
frustrated with me that he threwan extra 30 round magazine in
my rifle, so I did score a 45.
However, it was out of 80rounds.
So the only people who knew thatI shot 80 rounds were me and
the range instructor, becauseeven on my score sheet it showed
(05:35):
a 45 out of 50.
So I jokingly say that I'mstill technically the worst
expert marksman in the historyof the Air Force.
But that's an important part ofthe story, because when it came
time for them to determine whatcareer field I was going to go
into, they said well, you're anexpert marksman, you're going to
be a cop, which is securityforces and I'm thinking like
that's not really my personality.
(05:56):
I mean, can we do somethingdifferent than security forces?
And they're like get out ofhere, you're going to be a cop.
And so, again, I have adecision to make.
Right, we know that not everyday is going to be a good day,
but we can find the good inevery day.
I was not excited about beingin security forces, but once
again, I knew that everything ishappening for a reason, and I
learned then and there also,that the two things that we can
(06:18):
control in our life every day isour attitude and our effort.
And so I'm not saying that it'seasy, but I'm saying it's
possible.
I wasn't excited about what wasto come because that wasn't
what I was planning on doing,but God, of course, course,
corrected me, which I'm thankfulfor, you know, to this day.
But ultimately I said you knowwhat?
Here's the good news If I'mfinding the good in every day.
(06:39):
You know we've heard the phrasewhen it rains, it pours.
We can also say when it rains,look for rainbows.
And if I'm looking for rainbows, here's what I know.
I also joined to travel and Ithought you know what Every base
needs a cop, so I can still goto Germany, italy, belgium,
spain.
I wanted to go to Europe, right, I wanted to go overseas, get
some culture under my belt.
But once again, john, the AirForce had other plans.
(07:00):
Instead, they sent me tobeautiful Minot, north Dakota.
John, at this point I'mthinking all right, somebody
does not like me in the airforce.
I joined to be a filmmaker inItaly and instead I'm a cop in
North Dakota.
Jon Kidwell (07:15):
But I will tell you , man, you know, in all
seriousness, I am I'm sorry, I'mlaughing because I have a very
dear friend who was in Minotflying bombers, wow and what I
know about Minot is the nearesttarget is two hours away.
So for those of us that can'tcontextualize what might be
going on in Minot and we're tooyoung to fully comprehend the
Fargo movie, just know that yournearest target is two hour
(07:37):
drive.
Josh Parnell (07:37):
I'll tell you, man , it was a culture shock, to say
the least.
I wanted to get some cultureunder my belt, but that's not
the culture I was looking for.
Jon Kidwell (07:45):
So I'll say that, okay, so if we could, before we
go on, I want to pull because somany of us especially lately,
especially for the listeners wework in organizations, we're
mid-level executives, we'remanagers, we're leaders, and
sometimes organizations havedifferent ideas than what I have
, and that's a lot of what Iheard in your story is,
(08:07):
university had a different planfor me than I had for me, that
the military had this, that Imay have been bait and switched,
and then I find myself as a copand, okay, you're talking now
to the manager, to thatmid-level executive, maybe to
someone that's a CEO, that'skind of quote, unquote, topped
out, and maybe they got toswitch industries or they're
being told they got to switchindustries.
(08:29):
What, what lesson and kind ofwhat would you tell them from
your story on how to have theattitude, the effort and to kind
of take control of where youare inside of places?
Josh Parnell (08:43):
you might be moved that you don't.
You don't think you want to go.
You just said the key wordcontrol.
Focus on what you can controland try your best not to worry
about what you can't control.
You know what I could havecontrolled when I was at UNT my
grades right.
I mean I could have controlledthat.
If I had done a little moreresearch, I could have
controlled what career field Iwas going to get into in the Air
Force.
There's certainly learningcurves that we're going to go
(09:05):
through.
We're going to talk about alearning curve here in a bit.
But there's learning curvesthat we go through.
But ultimately, trust theprocess.
Focus on what you can control.
Invest in yourself, pour intoyourself.
Hire a mentor, hire a coach.
Find someone who's willing togive you the hard truth.
Jon Kidwell (09:28):
Find someone who's willing to help you with
perspective, because withperspective, the way that we
view things drives the way thatwe do things, but ultimately
focus on what you can controland try your best not to worry
about what you can't control.
Yeah, that is so, so good, andjust from your attitude, and one
that has chosen to move andbeen moved, I think, going into
it, I had the encouragement oncefrom someone that said focus on
(09:49):
the work and doing the workthat you can do and that you
want to do, and it goes back toyour attitude thing, right.
So okay, if you want to gothere, how do you tie it in with
your ultimate kind of goals andwhere you might be going?
Sure, how can you flip this tobe a time of learning, of paid
practice, of whatever it mightbe for what you got coming?
Because your attitude justvibes off of it so much and I
(10:12):
get it so much when I readthrough the book, especially
that story.
Way fun to hear live.
I'm so glad you all got tobecause it's there.
But talking to us about leadinga legacy which you got to take
control and ownership of thelegacy you want to lead, what is
the theme and what you hopepeople pull out of that book?
Josh Parnell (10:32):
Sure.
So the subtitle of the book ishow to Live Today to Make an
Impact for Tomorrow and for alot of coaches whether you're
coaching people in leadership,whether you're coaching people
in finance, whether you're afitness coach a lot of coaches
need to begin with mindset,because what we know is that our
thoughts will dictate ourfeelings, and our feelings will
(10:53):
dictate our actions, and ouractions will dictate our legacy.
So if we want to change ourlegacy, it begins with our
thoughts.
Here's the problem, though.
Studies show that humans haveup to 60,000 thoughts per day.
I just had seven.
Jon Kidwell (11:06):
There you go Right.
Josh Parnell (11:07):
Hey, let the rest of the day go by, because you're
going to have a lot more.
But 60,000 a day.
And studies also show that 80%of those thoughts are negative
and 90% of those thoughts arerepetitive.
So it's no wonder why weregularly experience stress and
worry and doubt and concern andanxiety and fear.
Jon Kidwell (11:23):
Can you say that was a?
Can you say that again?
Because that was powerful.
How many, how many thoughts arenegative?
Josh Parnell (11:28):
80% of our 60,000 of 60,000.
Jon Kidwell (11:31):
And then this one was the key to me when I think
about when I'm stuck in a loop.
What did you just say about the?
Josh Parnell (11:36):
90% of those thoughts, oh my goodness.
And so, a lot of listeners, youcan think to your own thoughts
and, yeah, like I get it now,like I understand, and you know,
we saw an uptick in anxiety in2020 when COVID hit right, and
so, for a lot of us, werecognize how these thoughts.
Of course, we're going to haveanxiety and stress if we don't
(11:56):
know how to manage our thoughts,but we also know that fear is
typically the root of a lot ofthe thoughts that stem from
limiting beliefs, and we knowthat fear is simply false
evidence appearing real and, asour boy John Acuff would say, we
know that one of the greatestmistakes any of us can make is
assuming all of our thoughts aretrue, and so we're always gonna
find evidence in the thingsthat we believe.
How can we start shifting aparadigm and challenging the
(12:19):
thoughts that we're having?
We've talked before about howit's so important to ask
questions.
Ask questions of those thatwe're leading, but also asking
questions of ourselves.
Start challenging the thoughtsthat we're having by asking
questions about those thoughts.
It's almost like thisverbalization of journaling.
I'm a big believer injournaling, which I talk about
in chapter one of the book, andwith journaling, the things that
(12:41):
we write are the things that weinvite.
So I'm going to share anotherstat with you that's really
eye-opening for a lot of folks.
We have a 42% more likelychance of achieving our goals by
simply writing them down.
And when I say we're writinggoals down, but we're also
writing down our thoughts.
By doing so, we're able to getclarity and direction through
(13:04):
the process.
I want to take a step back for asecond, john, and share how a
goal of mine was to go to UNT,and another goal of mine was to
go to Hollywood, to be the nextSteven Spielberg, to go into
filmmaking in the Air Force.
All of these are easy to setgoals on.
Oh, what do you want to do?
This is what I want to do.
Boom, just set a goal, just setfour goals right.
(13:24):
Where I failed when I wasyounger was, you know, in the
book Seven Habits of HighlyEffective People, stephen Covey
talks about beginning with theend in mind, and the key is
beginning, because my end inmind was Hollywood.
My end in mind was filmmaking.
My end in mind was fill in theblank.
Where I failed was shifting myfocus from the end in mind to
the steps that I need to take inorder to get there and this is
(13:47):
where a lot of folks makemistakes on is what's your goal?
I want to lose weight and eathealthy right, that's the number
one new year's resolution everysingle year, right?
So how are we going to do that?
This is where we need to stayfocused on the steps that we
take in order to get here, buttoo many of us are so caught up
and just creating the goal andalmost like a wishful thinking
(14:08):
yeah, and, and so theopportunity is to you're trying
you mean manifesting it, you'retrying.
Jon Kidwell (14:12):
Hey, there you go, yeah, yeah, a more a're
manifesting it.
Josh Parnell (14:14):
You're trying to manifest it.
There you go.
Yeah, A better way to say it,yeah, I'm going to manifest this
weight loss this year, right,but this is an opportunity area
that a lot of us don't capture,which is what you said earlier
putting in the work.
We've got to do the work.
Jon Kidwell (14:27):
Yeah, wow, I think that was a great tie back into
how do I live today with smallsteps, which you and I are huge
fans of.
Right, and we keep pulling onthe thread that if you haven't
yet watched the episode on JoshParnell leadership podcast, you
need to go do that.
You just pair really welltogether.
The only problem is you get tolisten to both of us, but that's
also a good thing.
So, so there you go, but backinto this and what you talked
(14:51):
about in the subtitle live.
There you go, but back intothis and what you talked about
in the subtitle live today tomake an impact for tomorrow.
And you just talked about all ofthese baby steps and I'm I'm
thinking specifically around thechapter of effect change yes,
and drawn back into that ceothat's looking and saying the
things like this is a big shipand I don't know if we can turn
the big ship.
And if we do take the big ship,it takes time, right, like
we've all heard that type of oryou're, you're in the middle of
(15:13):
the organization, saying look,josh, like I'm trying to meet
the needs of my team, serve themwell, and I'm also getting it
from above with my leaders andyou, you want me to affect
change and I'm just trying toget through the day.
Yeah, Right, so what can Istart focusing on and how can I
start doing this and affectingchange from where I am today?
Josh Parnell (15:35):
Great question, John.
So intentionality,intentionality plus time spent
equals value received andintentionality.
Jon Kidwell (15:43):
Okay, so I'm thinking about what I'm doing.
I'm you're, you're baking intome that I have to think about
what I want to do.
Kind of begin with the end ofmine.
Josh Parnell (15:50):
Yeah.
Jon Kidwell (15:51):
Time spent so um with my team in research and my
PB and J right Pause books injournal or prayer, bible and
journal in the morning, whateverthat is.
Like you're telling me, I gotto do these things, I got to
spend time in that, and then thevalue is what is produced
Ultimately you get the valuethat, but here's what is
(16:11):
produced Ultimately.
Josh Parnell (16:12):
you get the value, but here's.
Here's the thing.
A lot of us we start outintentionally and we start out
investing in the time, but wetrail off, and that's really
what a lot of chapter fiveaffecting change talks about.
Jon Kidwell (16:23):
Well then, help us because, like you said and you
and I know this cause, we bothdo trainings If you don't do
anything with the trainingwithin 48 hours is gone, you
just it's not going to happen.
And if there's not something tosupplement it, if we're not
following up, if we're notinviting coaching, if we're not
doing some of those things tohelp with the application and
you do something about it, thediminishing value is still there
(16:45):
, right?
So this is, this is everywhere.
Sure, help us, take thatintentionality and keep it on
the tracks.
Josh Parnell (16:52):
Yeah Well you know , with training, you know, we
know that the fortune is in thefollowup, and so, for a lot of
us, we go to training and that'sgreat, but, to your point, 70%
of what you got today isforgotten tomorrow and 90% is
forgotten in 30 days.
So what are you doing with the,with the content and the
curriculum that you justreceived?
What are you doing to focus onaffecting change through new
information?
(17:13):
You know, I begin the chapterby asking a question, and the
question is would you ratherthat I give you $1 million in
cash, tax-free, in hand rightnow, john?
Jon Kidwell (17:25):
I'm tempted.
I'm tempted right.
Josh Parnell (17:27):
Or I give you one penny that's going to duplicate
in value each day over thecourse of the next 30 days.
So just for-.
Jon Kidwell (17:34):
This is like that old marshmallow test Like, do
you?
Want one marshmallow now, or doyou want two marshmallows later
?
This is what I'm feeling, likeyou're asking me.
Josh Parnell (17:40):
Well, I want to make sure I'm being clear with
the audience.
So today it's one cent,tomorrow it's two cents, day
three it's four cents, eightcents, 16 cents and so forth and
so on.
So which of those would youtake a million dollars right now
?
But what if I die on day four,josh?
Then you probably should take amillion dollars four days ago.
All right, yeah.
Jon Kidwell (17:57):
Yeah, but this is the, this is the real poll,
right, and we're talking aboutcompound interest and that type
of thing, Right?
But it's I'm sitting here andthinking like, well, it depends,
like I could do a lot of thingswith those million dollars
Exactly.
And uh, and I know where you'retrying to build to.
Yeah, I do know, yeah, so helpme want that piece of it.
(18:17):
Of course I want to take thepenny, of course.
Josh Parnell (18:20):
So why do I?
Jon Kidwell (18:21):
want to take the penny and tell me how much it's
going to be worth to me.
Josh Parnell (18:23):
Absolutely.
Well, you know, uh, disparityin $1 million versus a
compounding penny, to where thelistener's probably thinking,
well, there's got to be a catchhere, or I feel like it's the
penny, but it just doesn'tmathematically make sense right
now, without me seeing the chart.
But if you do see the chart inchapter five of the book, you'll
(18:44):
see that just 10 days later, 10days ago, you could have had a
million dollars.
10 days later you're only at$5.12.
And another 10 days after thatyou're at $5,242.
But here's where what youshared earlier compound interest
, the compound effect takesplace day 27.
You're at $671,000.
(19:06):
The next day you're at 1.3 andsome change.
By day 30, John, you're at $5.3million.
30 days.
Jon Kidwell (19:14):
Not 30 years, right 30 days, because all of our
retirement people tell us after30 years you'll be a millionaire
.
You're telling me 30 days of adoubling penny or a doubling
value Right, and all of a sudden, 30 days in.
I'm well beyond $5.3 million 5Xthat return.
Josh Parnell (19:31):
It's crazy to think right, but here's the
thing.
This is where theintentionality plus the time
spent equals value received.
I want to go back to losingweight and eating healthy.
Every year, the number one NewYear's resolution for
resolutioners is to lose weightand eat healthy, which I think
is that it's about 25% ofresolutioners want to lose
weight and eat healthy.
So if we're putting ourselvesinto 25%, what are some things
(19:54):
that we're going to start doingin order to lose weight and eat
healthy?
We're going to go get a gymmembership if we don't already
have one, so we're going tospend money on a gym membership.
We're going to replace a lot ofour sugary, starchy foods in
our fridge and pantry and soforth with the sugar-free, the
calorie-free, carb-free productsthat are going to taste like
(20:15):
cardboard, but we're going togrin and bear it.
Hey we're trying to get six-packabs.
Hey man, crunchy granola allthe way, let's do this, so we're
going to hey, you know what,John.
Jon Kidwell (20:22):
Until nighttime.
Then it's ice cream time.
Josh Parnell (20:29):
I'm going to go buy new running shoes because'm
going to start meal prepping.
These are all the things thatI'm going to start doing.
Oh, I found a treadmill onCraigslist.
I bought that too right?
I'm doing all these things andI haven't even started working
out yet, and so then we're goingto start working out, we're
going to wake up a little bitearlier each day, we're going to
start meal prepping, we'regoing to go to the gym and we do
fine for the first week or two,but what happens is life.
(20:53):
Life happens For a lot of us.
We're trying to make thismassive 180-degree shift
overnight and we know thatultimately, that's not
sustainable.
There is literally a day in theyear, called Quitter's Day,
which falls on the second Fridayin January Because,
statistically speaking, by thesecond Friday in January, over
half of the New Year'sresolutioners have already quit
(21:15):
their New Year's resolutions.
And so when I talk about how,how important it is to recognize
the learning curve and to gothrough things in order to grow
through things, if we're goingback to let's, let's step back
for a second and look at thechart on in chapter five On day
20, we're only at $20.
So so keep in mind this is likeif we're, if we're shifting to
(21:38):
our own life and we tried towork out, need healthy, I'm
sorry.
On day 12, we're shifting toour own life and we tried to
work out and eat healthy, I'msorry.
On day 12, we're at $20.
By the way, the reason I'msaying 12 is because on this
year, quitter's Day fell onJanuary 12th.
So on January 12th, that'sQuitter's Day.
This year, if I'm looking atthe chart, I'm only at $20 on
day 12.
(21:58):
Yeah, that's not veryencouraging and it's not yet a
million dollars.
It's not.
And this is why people quit,because we overestimate what we
can accomplish in a month, butwe underestimate what we can
accomplish in a year, or fiveyears, or 10 years.
Or 30 days, or 30 days becauseintentionality plus time spent
equals value received.
So this falls in line with theJ curve.
(22:21):
We talk about a J curve andwhat the J curve looks like is
literally a letter J, and if youpicture the letter J, you can
you know we're starting on thelower end of the letter J.
Jon Kidwell (22:31):
Okay, so I'm not going to do it like I draw, but
I start kind of where I finishwhen I write Correct, correct.
Josh Parnell (22:37):
So you're starting on the lower end of the J and
the intent is to ultimately beon the higher end of the J.
So this is the equivalent ofgoing from good to great right.
Jon Kidwell (22:45):
Or I like to say great to greater.
Josh Parnell (22:47):
So let's say we're starting on the lower end of
the J and we're trying newthings.
We're implementing theseconcepts that we learned in
training through coaching.
What have you right?
We're trying new things.
Naturally it's going to feeldifferent, because it is.
It's going to feel awkward,it's going to feel challenging,
it's going to be uncomfortable,but we're going to get
(23:09):
comfortable being uncomfortable.
We know that growth and comfortcannot coexist.
They do not.
So what we do is we recognizethere should be and will be an
inevitable dip in progress, insuccess, in accuracy, in
efficiency.
So what happens is we'restarting to follow the path of
that J, right, and you'll noticethat there is that's the curve.
(23:31):
You know the term learningcurve is a real thing, because
you have to go through thiscurve in order to grow through
this curve.
But what happens is we get tothe bottom of the dip and we
quit in the dip.
Jon Kidwell (23:42):
Yeah, because it's exhausting, because I don't even
feel like I have $12 becauseI've spent $1,200 on all of
these equipment I've invested mytime.
And guess what?
This J curve is not just foryou.
Seth Godin wrote a book calledthe Dip, and all of us do it.
We get up and then we come down.
Organizational change models wego up because we launched this
(24:05):
new thing.
Everyone's super excited.
We don't have a system and wedon't follow through.
And we go down and if we don'tfigure those things out, we
never come back up.
That's it.
Josh Parnell (24:12):
So how do we come back up, well, I think it begins
spent equals value received.
I can't, I really can'temphasize that enough, because
we have to recognize there'sgoing to be a dip.
So, first, recognize andacknowledge there's going to be
a dip.
And for a lot of us, we get onday 12 of January of 2024 and we
(24:35):
say you know what?
It's not working.
I'm going to go back to how Iwas doing it.
Good was good, right, it wasn'tgreat, but I'll tolerate, good,
I'll settle.
Jon Kidwell (24:43):
This is just how it's going to be.
Josh Parnell (24:44):
I'll settle for good.
You know, John, one of myfavorite quotes comes from Brian
Wilson of the Beach Boys, andhe says beware the lollipop of
mediocrity.
Lick it once and you'll suckforever.
Oh, that was a good one.
We want to recognize that we'regoing to go through something
and subsequently grow throughsomething, but we have to know
(25:06):
it's going to take some time.
Jon Kidwell (26:32):
o okay, so I'm being intentional, I'm putting
in the time.
The super great thing that Ithink about is if I am a leader
in an organization or of a team,this immediately is starting to
create ripple effects beyond me, and so this feels to me like
the beginning of a legacy andthat perhaps, yeah, I'm $12 in,
(26:54):
or I'm $1,200 in and you've toldme this is coming, so walk me
through, kind of.
If I'm going through hell, howdo I keep going?
Right that kind of idea so thatI can see the things that are
happening around me and I startto see the ripples of all of
these change.
Where would you take me?
If I'm committed, I'm throughthe dip, I'm coming up the
(27:15):
upside, I'm committed to beingintentional, to putting in the
time.
I got glimmers of hope.
Tell me how we get past thatmillion dollars.
Josh Parnell (27:23):
It starts with communication.
You know, john, any change thatgets made, big or small, it's
going to start raising someeyebrows.
The questions are going tostart getting asked.
We, as leaders, want to makesure that we're providing two
things for every person.
Every person deserves twothings in any relationship,
especially professionallyclarity and direction.
So, as leadership coaches, youknow that we want to create two
(27:43):
things so that we can providetwo things.
We want to create safety andtrust so that we can provide
clarity and direction.
Any team member that you'releading, you want to establish
safety and trust so that you canprovide clarity and direction.
It begins with communication.
Jon Kidwell (27:56):
So talk us through that.
Just yeah, communicating, takeme down the path of
communicating, because I've donethis way too many times.
I get into that meeting andI've gone through a book like
yours and all of a sudden I'mlike, yes, this is what I'm
going to do, this is how I'mgoing to change.
And I show up in that Mondaymeeting and all of a sudden I'm
just like I mean, guys, we'vealways done it this way, like
(28:24):
this is just how it abandon whatI used to think, or the fact
that I've completely disregardedthat.
I may have quit some sort oforganizational change management
model on January 12, whateverthat might be, but I've brought
in this new thing.
So help me communicate in a waythat shows that this is a
process and that we're makingprogress.
Josh Parnell (28:36):
We know that nothing changes if nothing
changes, and so one thing thatthe entire team needs to know is
that we're going to be pivotingaccordingly If we're
recognizing the three questions.
Which is where are we going?
That's our vision.
How are we getting there?
That's our mission.
Why are we doing it?
That's our purpose.
There are pieces of each thatcould change to some degree
(28:58):
because we're trying to makesure that we are still driving
towards the ultimate visionthat's been casted and the
mission that's going to take usthere, but as things change,
questions start arising.
So I like to implement the fivesteps to effective communication
through what I call afoundational conversation.
So foundational conversationsare important for any team
(29:18):
member, regardless of tenure, ofcourse.
As a new person on board, whenyou're onboarding someone, you
want to walk them through whatthe expectations looks like,
what the standards looks like,what the culture is, and ask
them any questions that you canthink of that will help them
recognize that we're all on thesame team.
It's a we before me mentality,but even with tenured team
(29:39):
members, it's okay to sit downand reestablish the foundational
conversation because you'relaying the groundwork, you're
creating a firm foundation foreveryone a part of the team.
So the five steps I like to walkthrough is first, assume
positive intent.
Recognize that we may notalways make the same decision
that each other would, but it'scoming from a good place.
People don't care how much youknow until they know how much
(30:01):
you care, and so when someoneknows truly how much we care
about each other on a team, weknow that we can assume positive
intent.
The second is to seek first tounderstand than to be understood
.
Too often we as leaders aretrying to provide directives
versus direction, and we canprovide direction through
questions.
One of the questions is hey,help me understand, help me
(30:21):
understand what's going on right.
So I'm not going to go to youand immediately give you a
directive without asking somequestions.
I want to help you learn how tobecome a better problem solver
and critical thinker, someonewho can think outside the box
through asking questions.
Jon Kidwell (30:34):
I hope everybody that's listening all of a sudden
starts to see how this startsto lead a legacy, because now
you are a leader who'sdeveloping leaders just by the
way that you are leading.
That is exactly where you aretaking us right here In sports
analogies.
Josh Parnell (30:48):
To me it's like a coaching tree.
You look at coaching trees inthe NFL.
I think Andy Reid.
He just came off his thirdSuper Bowl win in the last five
years or so and he's developed acoaching tree over the years.
It's very similar.
As a leader, what you're doingis you are as a servant leader,
as you know, john, you'repouring into people, you're
investing in people.
You are so focused on thegrowth and development of people
(31:12):
for the sake of them being ableto create a legacy for
themselves.
Like, ultimately, we're allgoing to be leaving a legacy at
the end of our life.
So the legacy that we'releading today determines the
legacy that we're leavingtomorrow.
So, as we get into the thirdstep of effective communication,
something I like to talk aboutis falling in love with asking
(31:33):
questions.
We're asking a lot of questionsand, of course, when uh when
we're asking questions.
The fourth step is listening,and I think the key here is
knowing that there's adifference between listening and
hearing.
If we're hearing someone, we'resimply waiting for them to stop
talking so we can tell themwhat we want to say.
If we're listening, we'rereceiving information, we're
processing information and we'reutilizing that information to
(31:55):
best serve that person, but,furthermore, listening
empathetically.
I think empathy is anopportunity that a lot of
leaders are not capturing, andwhat I mean by this is
empathizing with someone doesn'tmean that we necessarily have
to experience the same situationas that person, but it does
mean that we can imagine theircircumstances and accept their
(32:18):
feelings without invalidatingthem, and I think the key word
here is invalidating them.
Sometimes we inadvertentlyinvalidate when we don't listen.
We simply hear them, becausewe're listening to respond
versus listening to understand.
Jon Kidwell (32:31):
Or I take my own thing of.
I don't know that I can handlewhat you're throwing at me,
that's so good.
And so I, to protect myself,have to shut it down, when in
reality, just accepting it, nottaking it on as something that I
have to carry for you, but thatwe can be with each other
together, is somewhere that wecan move kind of through that
(32:55):
and beyond it and I can stillserve you.
Josh Parnell (32:57):
Something I've learned over the years, john, is
how important it is just to youcan literally verbalize empathy
through modeling it like thisyou thank the person for sharing
this with you.
John, I want to thank you forsharing this with me.
I want to acknowledge yourfeelings and validate what you
shared.
I want you to know that I'mhere for you.
I'm going to do everything Ican to serve you and support you
(33:17):
in the best way possible.
So, just starting withsomething like that, they feel
heard, understood andacknowledged.
And so I think, for a lot offolks, when we don't validate
the feelings, that again, thatyou don't necessarily have to
completely understand, butyou're accepting those feelings
of that person withoutinvalidating them, that can go a
(33:37):
long way in leadership.
And lastly, is staying positive.
And so there's kind of athree-piece combo with staying
positive, and that is toimplement the no complaining
rule.
So we know, man, when we'restarting complaining about
things, we're allowingnegativity and toxicity to seep
in and creep in, which canreally be detrimental to the
(33:59):
culture of the organization.
We also want to make sure thatwhen there is a problem, we're
going to pair that with asolution.
Now, here's the thing, john,one thing I've learned and I
think you and I even talkedabout this off camera is this
applies at work.
It doesn't always apply at home, sometimes.
What?
Jon Kidwell (34:18):
are you trying to tell me, Josh?
Josh Parnell (34:20):
Sometimes our spouse may not want us to to
bring a solution, and vice versa, you know, I think it's okay to
admit that.
Look, there are times whenventing can be healthy.
And if there's a time when youknow our spouse is sharing a
problem with us.
Something my wife and I havehave gotten pretty pretty good
at is asking each other inadvance Do you want me to listen
(34:41):
or do you want me to reply?
Essentially, I'm saying I'masking do you want me to provide
a solution or do you want me tojust listen, because I need to
know how you need me to show upfor you in this moment.
Jon Kidwell (34:51):
Yeah, one of the things that we use and say is I
can contain that, right, if youjust have to vent, I can contain
that and I can move forwardafter this without being
emotionally hijacked.
Contain that, and I can moveforward after this without being
emotionally hijacked, withouthaving to come in and do that.
And I just it keyed on it whenyou were saying it that
sometimes it's still a problemin a solution, but it doesn't
(35:12):
mean that we have to bring thesolution.
Yeah, that's so good Means thatwe need to be the one to help
get to a solution.
And that might just be.
What do you want to do?
Right, that's right.
What do you think?
Or was was that the solution?
Like, is there anything else?
Sometimes the vent sesh is justit, and that is, in fact, the
solution.
I've discharged and now I'mgood, I can move right.
So I I still feel like there'salways a resolution and a
(35:36):
solution.
That's there, even with ourwives sorry, meg, uh, but I I
promise not to solve all of themunless I'm invited into it.
And it's still, there is arelease.
Josh Parnell (35:47):
There's also a time and place, because it
doesn't mean that just becausewe're not developing a solution
right now doesn't mean that aresolution will come right.
So we're just planting the seedand we're sharing with our
partner how we can show up forthem.
Jon Kidwell (36:00):
You mean, we don't have to solve every problem
every single day, we do notactually have to do that.
That's the crazy thing, right.
Josh Parnell (36:06):
But going back to communication, what we know is
that when there's a breakdown incommunication, voids tend to
get created and oftentimesnegativity fills those voids.
So when I talk about theimportance of communication, we
also know that there areoftentimes three different
conversations happening for theone that's actually happening,
which is the one that you'rehaving, the one that I'm having
and the one that we're having.
So one of the greatestmisconceptions about
(36:28):
communication is the fact thatit's actually happening.
So this you know, implementingthe five steps to effective
communication allows you to getrealigned with your team so that
we can collectively we beforeme, we can collectively move
that mission towards the visionthat was casted, even as changes
do begin to occur.
Jon Kidwell (36:48):
And I just I hope that you all are so encouraged
about kind of the intentionality, the time spent, the value
received, and then how to workthrough that in communication.
Josh, before I turn it over,you tell everybody about where
to get the book, where they canget all the end pieces that we
haven't had time to cover yettoday, and I ask you a question
what's something that you wantto share, that you want to point
(37:11):
people to in the book, orthat's just a good piece to know
?
Josh Parnell (37:15):
before we go.
Thank you for asking, john.
I think that, ultimately,something I struggled with as
I've gotten older, even into myadulthood, was I didn't fully
believe that I was a leader, andI think it's important to share
with everyone.
If you're listening to thispodcast, no matter your tenure,
no matter what title you hold,even if you don't have a job,
(37:36):
you are a leader.
Because being a leader meansthat you are a leader, yeah,
amen.
Because with, with, with a,being a leader means that you
have a perspective that no oneelse has, so you have your own
unique individual perspectivethat makes you one of one you're
.
There's no one else in theworld like you.
So, with perspective, you havethe ability to be influential,
and if you can be influential,you can affect change.
(37:57):
Anyone who is a change agent isa leader a good friend that
that.
Jon Kidwell (38:03):
He said he walked into a training and he walked up
to the table and it said thistable is reserved for leaders.
And he walked to the next tableand said this table is reserved
for leaders, third table.
He finally got it that it wasfor leaders.
Josh Parnell (38:17):
Love that.
Jon Kidwell (38:18):
You just heard Josh say, for every single one of
you is that you are a leader andyou have a legacy to lead and
leave today.
So where can we get this andlearn more about you, josh, so
that we can continue and maybeeven begin, but at least move
forward in?
Josh Parnell (38:37):
leading a legacy.
Thank you, john.
So you can find Le leading alegacy on Amazon.
You can also purchase the bookuh through my website, which is
limitlessleadershipco.
Uh, not com uh, but co solimitlessleadershipco.
Jon Kidwell (38:50):
It's cool.
Josh Parnell (38:52):
Um, so yeah, limitlessleadershipco, and if
you do purchase through mywebsite, I'll also send a signed
copy, uh, to you.
Jon Kidwell (38:58):
Um and um go there today If you do it right, right,
right, right right now.
I will just take it with me andI'll shoot it to it.
Just kidding, but you should godo that.
Josh Parnell (39:06):
There's more, that's right, but yeah you can
go to Amazon orLimitlessLeadershipco to
purchase Leading a Legacy today,and you can find me on most
social media platforms at theBearded Leader.
So at the Bearded Leader, soyou can see if you're watching
this episode the beard and ofcourse, I am a leadership coach
but at thebeardedleader you canalso find me.
Just search my name, JoshParnell, P-A-R-N-E-L-L, and I'd
(39:30):
love to connect with you.
That's awesome.
Jon Kidwell (39:32):
Josh, thank you for letting me and us come on
location in your home.
We got to do the pod swap,which was super fun Before you
go.
What does it mean to you tolead well?
Josh Parnell (39:48):
John, I think leading well to me means
connection before content.
Jon Kidwell (39:53):
Tell me just a little bit more about that.
Josh Parnell (39:54):
Yeah, being able to connect.
I think we can connect throughthree different ways, which is
authenticity, humility andvulnerability, and I think it's
okay for every leader torecognize you don't have to have
all the answers, you don't haveto be the best at what you do,
but you have to have a heart forserving people and you can
serve people throughauthenticity, humility and
vulnerability when you putconnection before content.
Jon Kidwell (40:16):
Connection before content so that you can lead
well.
This is Josh Parnell.
He leads well wherever he goes.
Thank you so much for can leadwell.
This is Josh Parnell he leadswell wherever he goes.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
We will see you next time anduntil then, be well, lead on and
God bless.
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