June 25, 2024 • 29 mins
Unlock the secrets to leading with kindness and accountability as we catch up with Kenneth Rose, President and CEO of UChicago Medicine AdventHealth Bolingbrook. After 16 years, Kenneth returns to share his remarkable journey from Grand Rapids to Chicago, emphasizing the critical role of genuine care in high-pressure environments like healthcare. Discover how establishing a people-centered culture, grounded in clear mission statements and intentional priorities, can build a robust and accountable team environment where staff members feel genuinely valued.
How do you build trust and morale in an organization? Kenneth and I examine the operational intricacies of an HR department, highlighting the importance of staying updated with team benefits and fostering educational and career growth. We dive into the significance of bi-annual team member engagement surveys and actionable plans designed to enhance workplace engagement and morale. Leaders will find valuable insights into striking the delicate balance between grace and accountability, setting clear expectations, and providing routine feedback. We also tackle the unique struggles faced by leaders who are natural people-pleasers, offering strategies for delivering constructive feedback while maintaining a caring atmosphere.
Kenneth's personal and professional journey is a testament to resilience and growth. From moving to Texas for his first executive role to enduring family highs and lows, his story includes opening a new hospital just before a major COVID-19 spike. Through these experiences, we explore the importance of balancing personal and professional growth, recognizing the dangers of pride and ego, and integrating personal and professional lives. Kenneth's wisdom on empathy, self-awareness, and leading oneself well provides practical leadership strategies that encourage us all to lead with heart and stay blessed. Join us for a conversation filled with heartfelt insights and powerful lessons in leadership.
Connect with Kenneth:
Kenneth Rose | LinkedIn
UChicago Medicine - AdventHealth Bolingbrook | Instagram | LinkedIn | Website
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The Leadwell Podcast gives mission-driven leaders principled and practical advice to do just that, lead well.
In each episode, your host Jon Kidwell, interviews leaders with great stories, to share strategies that help leaders navigate complex, confusing, and often down-right challenging leadership, personal growth, business, and workplace culture situations.
Jon is a nonprofit executive turned coach, speaker, author, and CEO of a leadership development company. In working with nonprofits and businesses, big and small, he realized the unique challenges leaders face when they are committed to keeping the mission and people the top priority. Those leaders’ commitment to their principles and the people they lead, plus seeing the need for more leaders who strive to do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons, is what inspired Jon to start a leadership development company dedicated to the success of mission-driven leaders and their organiza...
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Episode Transcript
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Jon Kidwell (00:01):
Welcome to the Leadwell Podcast, the show where
we interview mission-drivenleaders doing it well.
We talk to them about whatthey're doing and how they're
doing it so that you can getwhat you need to lead your
business and your people well.
And today with me I haveKenneth Rose.
He is the President and CEO atUChicago Medicine, advent Health
(00:21):
, bowling Green and strategicoversight at Glenn Oaks, and
this is a fun reconnection forKenneth and I, or K-Rose, if you
will, because we were justtalking and I think it's been 16
years in Grand Rapids where wefirst got connected, right.
Kenneth Rose (00:39):
Which is scary because I'm only like 19 years
old.
Jon Kidwell (00:42):
You and me both man , so I don't know how that
happened, but it was a.
It was a great time inpreschool up there in Grand
Rapids and and since then you'vebeen all over the country
You've done a stint in Dallas.
Thank you for being bound downhere by me and with us, and now
you are up in Chicago doing whatwe just laid up there.
Kenneth Rose (01:02):
Yes, it's been a great career.
It's funny how you know yourcareer will follow all sorts of
paths if you allow it, and Itruly believe that your steps
are ordered, and I've just triedto follow those doors as God
has opened them, and it's led tosome cool responsibilities and
(01:24):
opportunities.
Jon Kidwell (01:26):
Absolutely, and we're going to talk about that.
And specifically, I was kind ofteeing up and asking you about
leading in a place where there'shigh demand, kind of high
expectation on performance, onthe need for accountability, and
yet every single one of us isleading a person and so people
(01:49):
are probably starting to thinkright.
In construction and doingelectricity there's high demand,
high accountability, because itcan damage somebody's life.
You and I.
You fly on planes, I fly onplanes.
I wanna make sure that thatplane has some high
accountability because I'dprefer that it gets where it's
supposed to go, Right.
And that exists in medicine andfor a lot of us that have high
(02:13):
mission, high compassion, highfocus on people, sometimes it
gets a little challenging tomake sure that we keep up with
the performance and theaccountability.
Keep up with the performanceand the accountability.
What are, what are some of thepieces that that are unique to
you as you start to look at thatand then start to guide us
through kind of how medicineapproaches.
Some of that too, if you would.
Kenneth Rose (02:33):
Yeah, well, for me , you know, I think it always
the foundation that I try tolead from in every aspect is
based in kindness and love.
Um, you know, people will.
People will allow themselves tobe in a system where they are
(02:57):
held accountable If they knowit's a system that truly cares
about them as a person, doesthat make sense?
Jon Kidwell (03:03):
Mm.
People will allow themselves tobe in a system where there is
accountability if they know thatthere is truly love.
Yes, that is powerful.
Kenneth Rose (03:15):
Yes, so you know.
That's why it's the foundationof what I do.
I never aspired to be a niceguy or a nice leader, but I
definitely want to be seen andknown as kind and loving to
people.
So that kindness sometimescomes with necessary
accountability, and inhealthcare especially.
(03:36):
You're absolutely right.
Something that's important tous at AdventHealth is we wear
these monikers for our badge.
Jon Kidwell (03:42):
I care for you like my.
Kenneth Rose (03:44):
I've got my wife Alyssa on there.
And what that does is that givesyou some personal
accountability.
If I, as a frontline teammember, a nurse or a tech or a
physician or a leader, trulybelieve that I want to care for
you like someone that I love,well then I want it to be an
accountable system.
(04:04):
I want to make sure that wehave good hand washing.
I want to make sure that we dotimeouts before we do procedures
to make sure that we'reoperating on the right side of
the person and everyone islocked in and ready to go.
So you know, there's just thereal basic approach to
accountability and making surethat there are high levels of it
(04:29):
, and that starts with havingthat kindness and love at the
foundation.
And some people getuncomfortable when you talk
about love or kindness in abusiness setting, a work setting
, and I would just say there isno other way for you to truly
foster high levels ofaccountability and strong
(04:51):
culture if you don't have that.
Jon Kidwell (04:55):
One, I'm going to find myself an Advent Health
partner.
Hospital health system, becausethat badge right there.
Hospital health system becausethat badge right there.
I can only imagine the comfortand the trust that is
immediately built with a patientwhen it sees I will care for
you, just like I do my wife,alyssa, just like I do my child
(05:15):
If I put one of my kiddos namesin there, whatever that might be
.
Oh man, that hits.
And you touched on culture,right, and you even you brought
in that someone will allowthemselves to be a part of this
if they also know that they'regoing to be cared for.
We talk a lot about kind ofmutually agreed upon
(05:37):
expectations and that culturethat it's not just you, kenneth,
it's not just a nurse, shiftsupervisor that's doing this.
What does that culture ofaccountability look like once
you get people that are allbought in on that same idea?
We're going to be kind, we'regoing to love.
We opt into this level ofaccountability because of the
(05:59):
work we want to do.
How does that start to playitself out once that culture
starts to exist?
How does that start?
Kenneth Rose (06:04):
to play itself out once that culture starts to
exist.
Yeah, it's powerful when youreally get all these things
working together and make themvery clear for people.
You know, with our team, themodel that I've made for our
team to help us know how ourculture works.
We're a people-centered cultureand we're based in this
foundation of our missionstatement.
Our mission statement at AdventHealth is extending the healing
(06:26):
ministry of Christ.
That just grounds everythingthat we do.
It makes it very clear who weare.
And then we have threepriorities that are in a very
intentional order.
That's care for each other,which is all about team.
Then we care for our patientsand their family members.
And that's an intentional orderbecause I want to make sure our
(06:46):
team's cups are filled, they'recared for, they're loved,
because then they can pour thatout on the patients and their
families.
If you're burnt out, if yourcup is empty, if you don't feel
cared for, it's real hard tofake it with a patient and their
family Right.
And the last piece, our thirdpriority, is to care for this
business.
So we believe in goodstewardship and that's not just
(07:09):
reductions and cost managementand expense, it's about growth.
How do we find new ways for usto grow this business and invest
wisely in what we've been given.
So we've got those threepriorities and then, across to
the three, are our four servicestandards for AdventHealth.
Those four service standardsare love me, keep me safe, make
(07:33):
it easy and own it.
So in all three of thosepriorities there's an
opportunity to love, there's anopportunity to own it to not
just be a renter, but an owner.
There's an opportunity to keepsomeone safe, whether that be a
team member or a patient.
Our business, our investmentkeep it safe.
(07:54):
And you know, making it easy issomething that again translates
to all three of those pillars.
We want to make it easy for ourteam members to come and work
and do a great job.
We want to make it easy for ourteam members to come and work
and do a great job.
We want to make it easy for ourpatients to access the
healthcare they need and to getthe help that they need.
So those are the bones of thestructure.
(08:16):
And then the very pointy top ofit is that you know we want to
be transformative to people, andwhat that means within Advent
Health is that we will beholistic, we will be viable,
affordable, exceptional, andwhen you put all those things
and we'll be connected as thefifth, when you put all those
(08:37):
things together, it describeswhat transformation looks like,
because when you've got aholistic experience which is a
big part of who we are as AdventHealth body, mind and spirit
that's something that I thinkeveryone needs in the world
today.
They need a holistic approachto health care.
We don't want to just be anacute care provider when you're
(09:02):
in crisis, but how do we helpprevent some of the crisis when
you're in crisis?
But how do we help prevent someof the crisis?
And then a lot of physicalissues actually stem from mental
and spiritual issues.
Jon Kidwell (09:21):
You don't force people to take that from us, but
we gladly offer it if they'dlike it.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah,absolutely.
(09:51):
It is amazing howinterconnected the entire kind.
Other day going over his bike,he's fine, all is well now,
right, and, like you, you get usat a place of vulnerability, of
crisis, and I've been around somany healthcare providers that
they care so deeply, so I'm kindof pulling us back to this.
We care for each other.
We your patients in the generalpopulation are good at always
(10:16):
needing you and at some pointthose people are going to run
dry on the cup.
So I'm kind of I know I'm goinga little operational here, but
how do you work that out andwalk that out in an industry
with a mission where we couldall justify just never shutting
(10:37):
it off, kind of going, going,going, going.
So how do you all practicallykind of care for each other and
make sure that there is anintentional refilling?
Kenneth Rose (10:47):
Yeah, that's great , great question.
There's a number of differentinitiatives and things that we
do, and I'll just share a fewthat I think are most impactful.
One of the key things that Ilove about our hospital is that
the leaders that we have in thedepartment that we call Mission
and Ministry, which aretraditional chaplains.
Obviously they are focused onour patients and caring for them
(11:14):
, but we also employ them totake great care of our team
members, and so there's a numberof different initiatives that
this Mission and Ministrydepartment has come up with.
So there's a number ofdifferent initiatives that this
mission ministry department hascome up with.
Things like what we call SoulCafe, which is a cart that they
push around and it haschocolates and it has herbal
(11:35):
teas and it has, I think, a neckmassager, and anyone can order
the Soul Cafe cart, order thesoul cafe cart, and basically it
goes to the unit.
If someone is having a hard dayor they're going through
something personally, their teammembers can can know that and
can reach out to missionministry and say, hey, you know,
can we get the soul cafe cartfor this team member?
(11:57):
And in those moments too, john,what's beautiful is then the
mission and ministry leader hasan opportunity to see if that
team member wants to open upabout what's going on, to talk
through it, to have a safe,confidential space where they
can unpack some of thosechallenges that they're going
through.
(12:18):
They can get prayer if they'dlike to have it, and so that's
one of the most fundamental waysfundamental ways and, I think,
most impactful that we care.
And then when you talk aboutsome of the operational things
that sit within our traditionalHR department, it's a lot of
little things Making sure ourbenefits are staying up to date
with with what our team needs.
(12:39):
You know things like paternityleave and benefits from day one.
So when you start with us,you've got all of the benefits.
You don't wait for a 90-dayperiod.
Making sure that we're doingeverything we can to help you
advance your education, if youwant to, and help you grow in
your career.
We have a team member engagementsurvey that we do twice a year,
(13:03):
once in the spring, once in thefall and that's a pulse check.
Tell us honestly, how are youfeeling?
You know, is the organizationgoing in the direction that
you're comfortable with?
And then in between those twosurveys, we do action plans
where it's just, it's one or twothings.
Every leader sits with theirteam and says, okay, here's what
we said in the survey as a team, how engaged we are, what's one
(13:27):
thing that we want to keepdoing because we feel like we're
really moving in the rightplace?
And then what's one opportunityfor us to improve and make you
feel like this is an engagingplace to be and that gives us
actionable, intentional movementin the right direction?
Perfect it.
Uh.
You know there's varying levelsof expertise, um, with our
(13:51):
leaders and how they do, uh,those action plans and follow up
on them.
Excuse me, but it's a it's avery clear system that we want
to know how our team members arefeeling.
We want to be intentional aboutfollowing up on that to make
sure that we're improving.
Jon Kidwell (14:05):
That is awesome.
We just had a guest on CoreyShear who wrote the book Closing
the Trust Gap, and one of thethings he talked about in trust
and as well, I mean care forteam members and nurturing that
culture.
He said one of those criticalactions is routine feedback
combined with action based onwhat we heard and that is what I
just heard you say inside ofthat engagement survey and how
(14:28):
powerful that is.
So sometimes when we hear theword love and we hear the word
accountability, I might have atendency to let you slide right
and grace is 100%, a 100% neededand good thing, and there's
(15:09):
probably opportunities and needsinside of a piece where this is
what we need to rise to.
Otherwise, I'm just going toreally be kind as we move in a
different direction.
How does that kind of love,culture of kindness and
accountability to the mission,to each other, to your patients,
how does that start to playitself out when things might not
(15:29):
be going as best as we wouldhope?
Kenneth Rose (15:32):
Yeah, exactly, I think that that's an important
nuance and point, and I think itmay be a Brene Brown quote, but
clarity is kindness and, likeyou talked about earlier, the
clarity of expectations.
So how does that go hand inhand with with grace?
Is, I will be very clear withthe expectations of of what each
(15:57):
person is expected to do andthen, depending on I mean,
there's there's differentdegrees of it, right Depending
on what type of a mistake ismade, there's room for grace.
So everyone's going to makesome sort of a mistake and
that's where that grace comes in.
I believe, the first time thatyou make a mistake, or as you're
learning, as you're developing,it's a gentle correction.
(16:20):
Remember, the expectation isthis and in this situation, you
missed the expectation.
This is where we want you to be, where we need you to be.
Now, when it comes to a secondand third time, if it becomes
habitual, then that's where it'sa different conversation, right
, that's where it's.
I care for you enough that Ineed to give you this direct
(16:41):
feedback on how I need you toimprove and making sure people
understand why.
So you know so many narrativesand rumors and things that
organizations just naturallywill create, and if we as
leaders are not very clear aboutthe why behind some of the
(17:02):
things that we do or decisionsthat we make or expectations
that we have.
I mean, every organization has.
Well, you know they just wantme to do this for them to get a
bonus.
Or you know they just want meto do this so they don't have to
do it.
Or you know you got to bereally clear with people about
why those expectations are whatthey are and then just hold
(17:23):
holding people to that.
So, yeah, it's a mixture of ofthe grace, but caring enough to
people, um, to not only be clearbut care enough to confront I
think that's that's one that'sthat's missed at times is, um,
and I think that's in the niceculture uh, is what you're
describing?
uh, well, you know, you know,I'm sure they meant to do the
(17:43):
right thing, but actually thatmeans that you don't care about
them enough to confront them andlet them know that they're
outside of the expectation.
Right now.
I want to help you get lined upwith the expectation of what we
need.
Jon Kidwell (17:58):
Yeah, you are coaching me and speaking
language that I have coachedmyself into over the last decade
because I am a recoveringpeople.
Kenneth Rose (18:05):
pleaser, that is 100 percent.
Jon Kidwell (18:08):
The thing that I have coached myself into over
the last decade, because I am arecovering people pleaser that
is 100% the thing.
I've had to really learn a lotof the language.
Like, like you're using right,being clear is being kind, uh,
and and doing that, so, uh, whatI also know is that there are
people out there like me, uh,that are probably like I don't
know that I can do this.
Uh, k Rose, like you're, you'recalm, you're collected, you're
cool, you got this right here,uh, but, uh, I'm going to walk
(18:32):
into that room and be like allright, um, so you know that
thing that happened last weeklike okay, uh, and then they
leave, right, and we neveractually get to the thing and
it's not quite clear.
And then we, and then we got ourfriends that are over there
that, uh, that they they may bemore of what we would describe
as as a hammer, uh, looking fornails and sometimes thumbs.
Thumbs get in the way, uh, weforget to pull that thumb and
(18:54):
they're going to strike hard,right, so, uh, so you have a
temperament about you, you got atone about you, you got this
focus about you.
Help some of us that are tryingto walk that straight and
narrow in.
How am I really clear and kind?
What are some of the thingsthat you think about or the ways
that you approach some of thisdelivery to make sure the
(19:14):
message is understood reallyclearly?
But we leave there knowing thateven if we've just had a spat,
I care for you, I'm still onyour side, I'm still here, but
this is where it's going toleave at the level of
expectation.
Guide us through a little bitof your process there and how
you make sure you do that.
Kenneth Rose (19:34):
Yeah, I tell you, um, part of this starts so early
on, right?
So something that I implementedyears ago, based on a coaching
that I got from anorganizational department
organizational developmentdepartment in the past, was
(19:55):
viewing people like bankaccounts, and it sounds strange,
but hang with me.
So, for every withdrawal thatyou need to make from your bank
account, you've got to make surethat you have deposits, and if
you have no deposits but you'reonly making withdrawals, you've
(20:16):
overdrawn your account andthat's going to become a real
problem.
For people that struggle withkind confrontation, what I would
tell them is with a team thatyou're working with or that
you're leading, that you need tohold accountable, you need to
make sure that you're startingwith a lot of deposits.
(20:37):
What are deposits?
Deposits are catching peopledoing things really well and
giving them that specific,positive feedback.
Hey, when you took that patientexactly where they needed to go
instead of giving them eightstep directions, that was
perfect.
That was awesome.
That's what we believe in here.
Thanks for doing that.
Something that I put intopractice with deposits is for
(21:00):
all of my direct reports.
The top of our agenda everytime we meet is give me someone
to recognize for doing greatwork.
Give me somebody who deserveskudos, and what I do when I get
that name is I write them a noteand have it mailed to their
home.
If it's the second or thirdtime, then I'll call them.
I'll pick up the phone and callthem, or I'll walk and I'll
(21:21):
find them and recognize them,and so little things like that
start to permeate and create aculture that then, when you need
to have conversations aboutexpectations and accountability
Well, that's not the firstconversation that we've had.
The first conversation, thefirst couple of conversations we
(21:41):
had, were building you up andcheering you on about the great
work that you do.
And since I know that you'recapable of that and since I've
seen you do great work, I'm surethat this was just a
misunderstanding, of you gettingout of alignment with the
expectations.
So I want to make sure you'reaware this is where we need to
be in the work that we're doingand making sure people know that
you believe in them, in thework that we're doing, and
making sure people know that youbelieve in them, that you care
(22:03):
for them and that you have agenuine kindness in your
interactions with them.
And then, for the peoplepleasers, something you got to
realize is you can't controleveryone's reaction to
accountability, but I'm suregoing to try.
I'm just telling you that that'sright and there will be some
people that you'll have a greatconversation.
(22:24):
You will have made deposits,you have done everything right
and they won't be able to handlethat accountability and that is
not anything that you need toworry about or take on yourself.
Some people will struggle withit.
As long as you've been true toyourself and you've gone through
the right steps as best aspossible, the rest will fall in
(22:47):
place what?
Jon Kidwell (22:49):
what a good encouragement.
And and I'm just going back toeven on your positive feedback,
it was not just that.
Hey, I had a girl, I had a boy.
You gave very specific,constructive, positive feedback.
Hey, you took an eight stepthing and you whittled it down
and made it really easy for ateam member, for a patient, for
whatever.
(23:10):
That is a very specific,reinforcing positive thing that
if anyone else caught that theygrabbed it.
If not, we want to highlightthat.
That is.
That's an amazing thing to turnin there.
Before I ask you my lastquestion, which is what does it
mean for you to lead?
Well, any last things that youhave for us on this topic of
(23:31):
kind, loving, clear expectationsand how we live that out in
high stakes, high demand areas.
Kenneth Rose (23:39):
Yeah, I think that's something I learned a
couple of years back, john.
I actually, you know, over thepast couple of years, I've had a
challenging personal andprofessional journey, you know,
starting back in 2016, we movedto Texas, my wife and I, and we
(24:00):
didn't have any kids, and wewere getting started.
I was my first executive roleand that was a challenge when
you're your first time executiveand trying to figure out what
that means and how you fit on anew team.
And then we started having kidsin 2018.
And what was a challenge in2018 is, in April, we found out
(24:21):
that my wife was pregnant andtold my parents, told her
parents, everyone was excited,and then, in May of 2018, I
actually lost my dad, collapsedof a massive heart attack and
died on the spot.
He was 55.
We were weeks, weeks pasttelling him he was going to be a
(24:41):
grandfather for the first time.
We were weeks past telling himhe was going to be a grandfather
for the first time.
And so that affects yourpersonal and your professional
side.
You're one person, you're awhole person.
You can't really separate thetwo and leave them apart.
And then I got the opportunityto be the CEO of opening and
building a new hospital, andthat came with challenges.
(25:06):
We opened two weeks before thesecond COVID spike.
So we were a brand new hospitaland dealing with COVID and ups
and downs, and then on top ofthat we had some financial
struggles.
We lost 24 million our firstyear and we were able to lose
about 13 13.
So obviously that puts a lot ofprofessional stress on you as a
leader, as a CEO, andeventually our team pulled
(25:30):
together and rallied and, eventhough we went through some
difficult things in thatsituation, we came out on the
other end.
We were blessed in a lot ofways.
Through that situation, youknow, I could definitely see
God's hand in it when it reallyshouldn't have worked and it did
, um.
But amongst that time too, goingback to the personal, you know,
(25:50):
my wife and I experienced themiscarriage, um, which was a
really challenging, uh, personalthing as well.
And, uh, you know, we movedhouses.
Among that time, we had allthree of our kids.
In that time we I mean it was,it was we moved houses.
Among that time we had allthree of our kids.
In that time it was a lothappening and what that season
taught me, this long story, whatthat taught me was, as leaders,
(26:10):
for us to lead well, we have tobe balanced, whole people.
I'm notorious for wanting to bevery accountable and working
hard to get the results that areneeded, whatever it takes, and
the wall that I hit about twoyears ago was just burnout, of
(26:35):
shouldering all of theresponsibility, trying to get it
all done on my own.
And I went through anexperience with an opportunity
to fast and pray, and one of thethings that came out of that
was just this idea that I wasliving with a lot of pride and
ego, and it's a slippery sloperight that pride and ego was hey
(26:59):
, I'll figure this out, I'll dothe work, I'll be here, I'll get
it done.
You know, it's just going totake drive, it's going to take
grit.
And while that is true, it wasa lot about what I'm going to do
, all the things that I'll getdone, all the effort that I'll
put in.
And when I surrendered a lot ofthat in my personal walk with
(27:19):
God and brought him into it andcommitted a lot of this to
prayer and I realized that Ididn't have to figure it all out
, I also realized that I neededto have a better balance to my
personal and professional life.
It's not bad to take time offof work.
It's not bad to leave workearly to get home to your kids
(27:40):
and swim or go to the park,because you need that.
I wasn't bringing my best selfto work because I was unbalanced
.
So I would say that's a greatthing to keep in mind.
Is leading well, is leadingyourself well first.
Jon Kidwell (27:55):
Wow, every single one of us, myself included,
going back and just listening tothat piece, because there's
there's a whole lot of depth anda whole lot of learning inside
of there, and one of the thingsI found personally is, when we
go through really challengingexperiences, we either get
(28:18):
bitter or we get better.
We kind of move away frompeople or we have a different
level of empathy, and I hear thelatter in all of what you just
shared with us and teeing us upthat, as leaders, to lead well,
we have to start leadingourselves and we have to look at
this as a balanced, holisticapproach.
Kenneth, it was amazing, myfriend.
(28:42):
I am so glad that we got backtogether and that you carved out
the time to come talk with meand share your story as well as
how you lead, where you lead,with everybody else.
Thank you for doing that.
Kenneth Rose (28:56):
Happy to.
I'm just honored that you askedand allowed me to get on here
and ramble a little bit.
I had a great time.
Jon Kidwell (29:02):
Good, good and for everybody else.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Be well, lead on and God bless.
Welcome to the Leadwell Podcast, the show where
we interview mission-drivenleaders doing it well.
We talk to them about whatthey're doing and how they're
doing it so that you can getwhat you need to lead your
business and your people well.
And today with me I haveKenneth Rose.
He is the President and CEO atUChicago Medicine, advent Health
(00:21):
, bowling Green and strategicoversight at Glenn Oaks, and
this is a fun reconnection forKenneth and I, or K-Rose, if you
will, because we were justtalking and I think it's been 16
years in Grand Rapids where wefirst got connected, right.
Kenneth Rose (00:39):
Which is scary because I'm only like 19 years
old.
Jon Kidwell (00:42):
You and me both man , so I don't know how that
happened, but it was a.
It was a great time inpreschool up there in Grand
Rapids and and since then you'vebeen all over the country
You've done a stint in Dallas.
Thank you for being bound downhere by me and with us, and now
you are up in Chicago doing whatwe just laid up there.
Kenneth Rose (01:02):
Yes, it's been a great career.
It's funny how you know yourcareer will follow all sorts of
paths if you allow it, and Itruly believe that your steps
are ordered, and I've just triedto follow those doors as God
has opened them, and it's led tosome cool responsibilities and
(01:24):
opportunities.
Jon Kidwell (01:26):
Absolutely, and we're going to talk about that.
And specifically, I was kind ofteeing up and asking you about
leading in a place where there'shigh demand, kind of high
expectation on performance, onthe need for accountability, and
yet every single one of us isleading a person and so people
(01:49):
are probably starting to thinkright.
In construction and doingelectricity there's high demand,
high accountability, because itcan damage somebody's life.
You and I.
You fly on planes, I fly onplanes.
I wanna make sure that thatplane has some high
accountability because I'dprefer that it gets where it's
supposed to go, Right.
And that exists in medicine andfor a lot of us that have high
(02:13):
mission, high compassion, highfocus on people, sometimes it
gets a little challenging tomake sure that we keep up with
the performance and theaccountability.
Keep up with the performanceand the accountability.
What are, what are some of thepieces that that are unique to
you as you start to look at thatand then start to guide us
through kind of how medicineapproaches.
Some of that too, if you would.
Kenneth Rose (02:33):
Yeah, well, for me , you know, I think it always
the foundation that I try tolead from in every aspect is
based in kindness and love.
Um, you know, people will.
People will allow themselves tobe in a system where they are
(02:57):
held accountable If they knowit's a system that truly cares
about them as a person, doesthat make sense?
Jon Kidwell (03:03):
Mm.
People will allow themselves tobe in a system where there is
accountability if they know thatthere is truly love.
Yes, that is powerful.
Kenneth Rose (03:15):
Yes, so you know.
That's why it's the foundationof what I do.
I never aspired to be a niceguy or a nice leader, but I
definitely want to be seen andknown as kind and loving to
people.
So that kindness sometimescomes with necessary
accountability, and inhealthcare especially.
(03:36):
You're absolutely right.
Something that's important tous at AdventHealth is we wear
these monikers for our badge.
Jon Kidwell (03:42):
I care for you like my.
Kenneth Rose (03:44):
I've got my wife Alyssa on there.
And what that does is that givesyou some personal
accountability.
If I, as a frontline teammember, a nurse or a tech or a
physician or a leader, trulybelieve that I want to care for
you like someone that I love,well then I want it to be an
accountable system.
(04:04):
I want to make sure that wehave good hand washing.
I want to make sure that we dotimeouts before we do procedures
to make sure that we'reoperating on the right side of
the person and everyone islocked in and ready to go.
So you know, there's just thereal basic approach to
accountability and making surethat there are high levels of it
(04:29):
, and that starts with havingthat kindness and love at the
foundation.
And some people getuncomfortable when you talk
about love or kindness in abusiness setting, a work setting
, and I would just say there isno other way for you to truly
foster high levels ofaccountability and strong
(04:51):
culture if you don't have that.
Jon Kidwell (04:55):
One, I'm going to find myself an Advent Health
partner.
Hospital health system, becausethat badge right there.
Hospital health system becausethat badge right there.
I can only imagine the comfortand the trust that is
immediately built with a patientwhen it sees I will care for
you, just like I do my wife,alyssa, just like I do my child
(05:15):
If I put one of my kiddos namesin there, whatever that might be
.
Oh man, that hits.
And you touched on culture,right, and you even you brought
in that someone will allowthemselves to be a part of this
if they also know that they'regoing to be cared for.
We talk a lot about kind ofmutually agreed upon
(05:37):
expectations and that culturethat it's not just you, kenneth,
it's not just a nurse, shiftsupervisor that's doing this.
What does that culture ofaccountability look like once
you get people that are allbought in on that same idea?
We're going to be kind, we'regoing to love.
We opt into this level ofaccountability because of the
(05:59):
work we want to do.
How does that start to playitself out once that culture
starts to exist?
How does that start?
Kenneth Rose (06:04):
to play itself out once that culture starts to
exist.
Yeah, it's powerful when youreally get all these things
working together and make themvery clear for people.
You know, with our team, themodel that I've made for our
team to help us know how ourculture works.
We're a people-centered cultureand we're based in this
foundation of our missionstatement.
Our mission statement at AdventHealth is extending the healing
(06:26):
ministry of Christ.
That just grounds everythingthat we do.
It makes it very clear who weare.
And then we have threepriorities that are in a very
intentional order.
That's care for each other,which is all about team.
Then we care for our patientsand their family members.
And that's an intentional orderbecause I want to make sure our
(06:46):
team's cups are filled, they'recared for, they're loved,
because then they can pour thatout on the patients and their
families.
If you're burnt out, if yourcup is empty, if you don't feel
cared for, it's real hard tofake it with a patient and their
family Right.
And the last piece, our thirdpriority, is to care for this
business.
So we believe in goodstewardship and that's not just
(07:09):
reductions and cost managementand expense, it's about growth.
How do we find new ways for usto grow this business and invest
wisely in what we've been given.
So we've got those threepriorities and then, across to
the three, are our four servicestandards for AdventHealth.
Those four service standardsare love me, keep me safe, make
(07:33):
it easy and own it.
So in all three of thosepriorities there's an
opportunity to love, there's anopportunity to own it to not
just be a renter, but an owner.
There's an opportunity to keepsomeone safe, whether that be a
team member or a patient.
Our business, our investmentkeep it safe.
(07:54):
And you know, making it easy issomething that again translates
to all three of those pillars.
We want to make it easy for ourteam members to come and work
and do a great job.
We want to make it easy for ourteam members to come and work
and do a great job.
We want to make it easy for ourpatients to access the
healthcare they need and to getthe help that they need.
So those are the bones of thestructure.
(08:16):
And then the very pointy top ofit is that you know we want to
be transformative to people, andwhat that means within Advent
Health is that we will beholistic, we will be viable,
affordable, exceptional, andwhen you put all those things
and we'll be connected as thefifth, when you put all those
(08:37):
things together, it describeswhat transformation looks like,
because when you've got aholistic experience which is a
big part of who we are as AdventHealth body, mind and spirit
that's something that I thinkeveryone needs in the world
today.
They need a holistic approachto health care.
We don't want to just be anacute care provider when you're
(09:02):
in crisis, but how do we helpprevent some of the crisis when
you're in crisis?
But how do we help prevent someof the crisis?
And then a lot of physicalissues actually stem from mental
and spiritual issues.
Jon Kidwell (09:21):
You don't force people to take that from us, but
we gladly offer it if they'dlike it.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah,absolutely.
(09:51):
It is amazing howinterconnected the entire kind.
Other day going over his bike,he's fine, all is well now,
right, and, like you, you get usat a place of vulnerability, of
crisis, and I've been around somany healthcare providers that
they care so deeply, so I'm kindof pulling us back to this.
We care for each other.
We your patients in the generalpopulation are good at always
(10:16):
needing you and at some pointthose people are going to run
dry on the cup.
So I'm kind of I know I'm goinga little operational here, but
how do you work that out andwalk that out in an industry
with a mission where we couldall justify just never shutting
(10:37):
it off, kind of going, going,going, going.
So how do you all practicallykind of care for each other and
make sure that there is anintentional refilling?
Kenneth Rose (10:47):
Yeah, that's great , great question.
There's a number of differentinitiatives and things that we
do, and I'll just share a fewthat I think are most impactful.
One of the key things that Ilove about our hospital is that
the leaders that we have in thedepartment that we call Mission
and Ministry, which aretraditional chaplains.
Obviously they are focused onour patients and caring for them
(11:14):
, but we also employ them totake great care of our team
members, and so there's a numberof different initiatives that
this Mission and Ministrydepartment has come up with.
So there's a number ofdifferent initiatives that this
mission ministry department hascome up with.
Things like what we call SoulCafe, which is a cart that they
push around and it haschocolates and it has herbal
(11:35):
teas and it has, I think, a neckmassager, and anyone can order
the Soul Cafe cart, order thesoul cafe cart, and basically it
goes to the unit.
If someone is having a hard dayor they're going through
something personally, their teammembers can can know that and
can reach out to missionministry and say, hey, you know,
can we get the soul cafe cartfor this team member?
(11:57):
And in those moments too, john,what's beautiful is then the
mission and ministry leader hasan opportunity to see if that
team member wants to open upabout what's going on, to talk
through it, to have a safe,confidential space where they
can unpack some of thosechallenges that they're going
through.
(12:18):
They can get prayer if they'dlike to have it, and so that's
one of the most fundamental waysfundamental ways and, I think,
most impactful that we care.
And then when you talk aboutsome of the operational things
that sit within our traditionalHR department, it's a lot of
little things Making sure ourbenefits are staying up to date
with with what our team needs.
(12:39):
You know things like paternityleave and benefits from day one.
So when you start with us,you've got all of the benefits.
You don't wait for a 90-dayperiod.
Making sure that we're doingeverything we can to help you
advance your education, if youwant to, and help you grow in
your career.
We have a team member engagementsurvey that we do twice a year,
(13:03):
once in the spring, once in thefall and that's a pulse check.
Tell us honestly, how are youfeeling?
You know, is the organizationgoing in the direction that
you're comfortable with?
And then in between those twosurveys, we do action plans
where it's just, it's one or twothings.
Every leader sits with theirteam and says, okay, here's what
we said in the survey as a team, how engaged we are, what's one
(13:27):
thing that we want to keepdoing because we feel like we're
really moving in the rightplace?
And then what's one opportunityfor us to improve and make you
feel like this is an engagingplace to be and that gives us
actionable, intentional movementin the right direction?
Perfect it.
Uh.
You know there's varying levelsof expertise, um, with our
(13:51):
leaders and how they do, uh,those action plans and follow up
on them.
Excuse me, but it's a it's avery clear system that we want
to know how our team members arefeeling.
We want to be intentional aboutfollowing up on that to make
sure that we're improving.
Jon Kidwell (14:05):
That is awesome.
We just had a guest on CoreyShear who wrote the book Closing
the Trust Gap, and one of thethings he talked about in trust
and as well, I mean care forteam members and nurturing that
culture.
He said one of those criticalactions is routine feedback
combined with action based onwhat we heard and that is what I
just heard you say inside ofthat engagement survey and how
(14:28):
powerful that is.
So sometimes when we hear theword love and we hear the word
accountability, I might have atendency to let you slide right
and grace is 100%, a 100% neededand good thing, and there's
(15:09):
probably opportunities and needsinside of a piece where this is
what we need to rise to.
Otherwise, I'm just going toreally be kind as we move in a
different direction.
How does that kind of love,culture of kindness and
accountability to the mission,to each other, to your patients,
how does that start to playitself out when things might not
(15:29):
be going as best as we wouldhope?
Kenneth Rose (15:32):
Yeah, exactly, I think that that's an important
nuance and point, and I think itmay be a Brene Brown quote, but
clarity is kindness and, likeyou talked about earlier, the
clarity of expectations.
So how does that go hand inhand with with grace?
Is, I will be very clear withthe expectations of of what each
(15:57):
person is expected to do andthen, depending on I mean,
there's there's differentdegrees of it, right Depending
on what type of a mistake ismade, there's room for grace.
So everyone's going to makesome sort of a mistake and
that's where that grace comes in.
I believe, the first time thatyou make a mistake, or as you're
learning, as you're developing,it's a gentle correction.
(16:20):
Remember, the expectation isthis and in this situation, you
missed the expectation.
This is where we want you to be, where we need you to be.
Now, when it comes to a secondand third time, if it becomes
habitual, then that's where it'sa different conversation, right
, that's where it's.
I care for you enough that Ineed to give you this direct
(16:41):
feedback on how I need you toimprove and making sure people
understand why.
So you know so many narrativesand rumors and things that
organizations just naturallywill create, and if we as
leaders are not very clear aboutthe why behind some of the
(17:02):
things that we do or decisionsthat we make or expectations
that we have.
I mean, every organization has.
Well, you know they just wantme to do this for them to get a
bonus.
Or you know they just want meto do this so they don't have to
do it.
Or you know you got to bereally clear with people about
why those expectations are whatthey are and then just hold
(17:23):
holding people to that.
So, yeah, it's a mixture of ofthe grace, but caring enough to
people, um, to not only be clearbut care enough to confront I
think that's that's one that'sthat's missed at times is, um,
and I think that's in the niceculture uh, is what you're
describing?
uh, well, you know, you know,I'm sure they meant to do the
(17:43):
right thing, but actually thatmeans that you don't care about
them enough to confront them andlet them know that they're
outside of the expectation.
Right now.
I want to help you get lined upwith the expectation of what we
need.
Jon Kidwell (17:58):
Yeah, you are coaching me and speaking
language that I have coachedmyself into over the last decade
because I am a recoveringpeople.
Kenneth Rose (18:05):
pleaser, that is 100 percent.
Jon Kidwell (18:08):
The thing that I have coached myself into over
the last decade, because I am arecovering people pleaser that
is 100% the thing.
I've had to really learn a lotof the language.
Like, like you're using right,being clear is being kind, uh,
and and doing that, so, uh, whatI also know is that there are
people out there like me, uh,that are probably like I don't
know that I can do this.
Uh, k Rose, like you're, you'recalm, you're collected, you're
cool, you got this right here,uh, but, uh, I'm going to walk
(18:32):
into that room and be like allright, um, so you know that
thing that happened last weeklike okay, uh, and then they
leave, right, and we neveractually get to the thing and
it's not quite clear.
And then we, and then we got ourfriends that are over there
that, uh, that they they may bemore of what we would describe
as as a hammer, uh, looking fornails and sometimes thumbs.
Thumbs get in the way, uh, weforget to pull that thumb and
(18:54):
they're going to strike hard,right, so, uh, so you have a
temperament about you, you got atone about you, you got this
focus about you.
Help some of us that are tryingto walk that straight and
narrow in.
How am I really clear and kind?
What are some of the thingsthat you think about or the ways
that you approach some of thisdelivery to make sure the
(19:14):
message is understood reallyclearly?
But we leave there knowing thateven if we've just had a spat,
I care for you, I'm still onyour side, I'm still here, but
this is where it's going toleave at the level of
expectation.
Guide us through a little bitof your process there and how
you make sure you do that.
Kenneth Rose (19:34):
Yeah, I tell you, um, part of this starts so early
on, right?
So something that I implementedyears ago, based on a coaching
that I got from anorganizational department
organizational developmentdepartment in the past, was
(19:55):
viewing people like bankaccounts, and it sounds strange,
but hang with me.
So, for every withdrawal thatyou need to make from your bank
account, you've got to make surethat you have deposits, and if
you have no deposits but you'reonly making withdrawals, you've
(20:16):
overdrawn your account andthat's going to become a real
problem.
For people that struggle withkind confrontation, what I would
tell them is with a team thatyou're working with or that
you're leading, that you need tohold accountable, you need to
make sure that you're startingwith a lot of deposits.
(20:37):
What are deposits?
Deposits are catching peopledoing things really well and
giving them that specific,positive feedback.
Hey, when you took that patientexactly where they needed to go
instead of giving them eightstep directions, that was
perfect.
That was awesome.
That's what we believe in here.
Thanks for doing that.
Something that I put intopractice with deposits is for
(21:00):
all of my direct reports.
The top of our agenda everytime we meet is give me someone
to recognize for doing greatwork.
Give me somebody who deserveskudos, and what I do when I get
that name is I write them a noteand have it mailed to their
home.
If it's the second or thirdtime, then I'll call them.
I'll pick up the phone and callthem, or I'll walk and I'll
(21:21):
find them and recognize them,and so little things like that
start to permeate and create aculture that then, when you need
to have conversations aboutexpectations and accountability
Well, that's not the firstconversation that we've had.
The first conversation, thefirst couple of conversations we
(21:41):
had, were building you up andcheering you on about the great
work that you do.
And since I know that you'recapable of that and since I've
seen you do great work, I'm surethat this was just a
misunderstanding, of you gettingout of alignment with the
expectations.
So I want to make sure you'reaware this is where we need to
be in the work that we're doingand making sure people know that
you believe in them, in thework that we're doing, and
making sure people know that youbelieve in them, that you care
(22:03):
for them and that you have agenuine kindness in your
interactions with them.
And then, for the peoplepleasers, something you got to
realize is you can't controleveryone's reaction to
accountability, but I'm suregoing to try.
I'm just telling you that that'sright and there will be some
people that you'll have a greatconversation.
(22:24):
You will have made deposits,you have done everything right
and they won't be able to handlethat accountability and that is
not anything that you need toworry about or take on yourself.
Some people will struggle withit.
As long as you've been true toyourself and you've gone through
the right steps as best aspossible, the rest will fall in
(22:47):
place what?
Jon Kidwell (22:49):
what a good encouragement.
And and I'm just going back toeven on your positive feedback,
it was not just that.
Hey, I had a girl, I had a boy.
You gave very specific,constructive, positive feedback.
Hey, you took an eight stepthing and you whittled it down
and made it really easy for ateam member, for a patient, for
whatever.
(23:10):
That is a very specific,reinforcing positive thing that
if anyone else caught that theygrabbed it.
If not, we want to highlightthat.
That is.
That's an amazing thing to turnin there.
Before I ask you my lastquestion, which is what does it
mean for you to lead?
Well, any last things that youhave for us on this topic of
(23:31):
kind, loving, clear expectationsand how we live that out in
high stakes, high demand areas.
Kenneth Rose (23:39):
Yeah, I think that's something I learned a
couple of years back, john.
I actually, you know, over thepast couple of years, I've had a
challenging personal andprofessional journey, you know,
starting back in 2016, we movedto Texas, my wife and I, and we
(24:00):
didn't have any kids, and wewere getting started.
I was my first executive roleand that was a challenge when
you're your first time executiveand trying to figure out what
that means and how you fit on anew team.
And then we started having kidsin 2018.
And what was a challenge in2018 is, in April, we found out
(24:21):
that my wife was pregnant andtold my parents, told her
parents, everyone was excited,and then, in May of 2018, I
actually lost my dad, collapsedof a massive heart attack and
died on the spot.
He was 55.
We were weeks, weeks pasttelling him he was going to be a
(24:41):
grandfather for the first time.
We were weeks past telling himhe was going to be a grandfather
for the first time.
And so that affects yourpersonal and your professional
side.
You're one person, you're awhole person.
You can't really separate thetwo and leave them apart.
And then I got the opportunityto be the CEO of opening and
building a new hospital, andthat came with challenges.
(25:06):
We opened two weeks before thesecond COVID spike.
So we were a brand new hospitaland dealing with COVID and ups
and downs, and then on top ofthat we had some financial
struggles.
We lost 24 million our firstyear and we were able to lose
about 13 13.
So obviously that puts a lot ofprofessional stress on you as a
leader, as a CEO, andeventually our team pulled
(25:30):
together and rallied and, eventhough we went through some
difficult things in thatsituation, we came out on the
other end.
We were blessed in a lot ofways.
Through that situation, youknow, I could definitely see
God's hand in it when it reallyshouldn't have worked and it did
, um.
But amongst that time too, goingback to the personal, you know,
(25:50):
my wife and I experienced themiscarriage, um, which was a
really challenging, uh, personalthing as well.
And, uh, you know, we movedhouses.
Among that time, we had allthree of our kids.
In that time we I mean it was,it was we moved houses.
Among that time we had allthree of our kids.
In that time it was a lothappening and what that season
taught me, this long story, whatthat taught me was, as leaders,
(26:10):
for us to lead well, we have tobe balanced, whole people.
I'm notorious for wanting to bevery accountable and working
hard to get the results that areneeded, whatever it takes, and
the wall that I hit about twoyears ago was just burnout, of
(26:35):
shouldering all of theresponsibility, trying to get it
all done on my own.
And I went through anexperience with an opportunity
to fast and pray, and one of thethings that came out of that
was just this idea that I wasliving with a lot of pride and
ego, and it's a slippery sloperight that pride and ego was hey
(26:59):
, I'll figure this out, I'll dothe work, I'll be here, I'll get
it done.
You know, it's just going totake drive, it's going to take
grit.
And while that is true, it wasa lot about what I'm going to do
, all the things that I'll getdone, all the effort that I'll
put in.
And when I surrendered a lot ofthat in my personal walk with
(27:19):
God and brought him into it andcommitted a lot of this to
prayer and I realized that Ididn't have to figure it all out
, I also realized that I neededto have a better balance to my
personal and professional life.
It's not bad to take time offof work.
It's not bad to leave workearly to get home to your kids
(27:40):
and swim or go to the park,because you need that.
I wasn't bringing my best selfto work because I was unbalanced
.
So I would say that's a greatthing to keep in mind.
Is leading well, is leadingyourself well first.
Jon Kidwell (27:55):
Wow, every single one of us, myself included,
going back and just listening tothat piece, because there's
there's a whole lot of depth anda whole lot of learning inside
of there, and one of the thingsI found personally is, when we
go through really challengingexperiences, we either get
(28:18):
bitter or we get better.
We kind of move away frompeople or we have a different
level of empathy, and I hear thelatter in all of what you just
shared with us and teeing us upthat, as leaders, to lead well,
we have to start leadingourselves and we have to look at
this as a balanced, holisticapproach.
Kenneth, it was amazing, myfriend.
(28:42):
I am so glad that we got backtogether and that you carved out
the time to come talk with meand share your story as well as
how you lead, where you lead,with everybody else.
Thank you for doing that.
Kenneth Rose (28:56):
Happy to.
I'm just honored that you askedand allowed me to get on here
and ramble a little bit.
I had a great time.
Jon Kidwell (29:02):
Good, good and for everybody else.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
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