April 2, 2024 • 31 mins
Have you ever found yourself at a crossroads, where one path leads to the ordinary and the other to exceptional? This week's Leadwell podcast guest, Walter Nussbaum, shares his inspiring journey from the former to the latter—how a disciplined mentor and an epiphany over dinner at Bullwinkle Steakhouse set him on a course toward outstanding leadership and personal growth. We delve into those life-altering 'fork in the road' moments, and Walter's narrative serves as a testament to the power of positive influence and the pursuit of excellence.
Leadership is more than a title; it's a complex blend of skills, social savvy, and above all, character. In our conversation with Walter, we uncover the critical elements that define a 'total leader' and the importance of the Arete mindset—a philosophy that champions maximizing current potential and pushing the boundaries of what we can become. This episode isn't just about recognizing one's innate talents but also nurturing them to inspire and encourage growth within teams and organizations.
To wrap up, we explore the often-overlooked force of affection in leadership. Just as an elderly woman gave up smoking out of love, we discuss how affection-driven leadership can transform obligations into passions and foster a culture of excellence. Walter's insights on practicing and instilling these principles in our daily lives are invaluable. If you're ready to embark on a quest for leadership excellence, Walter Nussbaum is the guide you've been looking for, and we've got all the ways you can connect with him in our show notes. Tune in and transform the way you lead.
Connect with Walter and the The Nusbaum Group:
Walter Nusbaum | https://www.linkedin.com/in/wnusbaum/
walter@walternusbaum.com
The Nusbaum Group | http://www.thenusbaumgroup.com, https://www.facebook.com/thenusbaumgroup/,
The Arete Way | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AreteWay, Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theareteway/, Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/c/TheAreteWay
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Order your copy of Jon's book at RedefineYourServantLeadership.com, and don't forget to utilize the additional resources, or purchase access to the Workbook and Coaching Videos.
Send your Leadership and Business questions to Jon at podcast@leadwell.com.
For more information visit https://leadwell.com
The Leadwell Podcast gives mission-driven leaders principled and practical advice to do just that, lead well.
In each episode, your host Jon Kidwell, interviews leaders with great stories, to share strategies that help leaders navigate complex, confusing, and often down-right challenging leadership, personal growth, business, and workplace culture situations.
Jon is a nonprofit executive turned coach, speaker, author, and CEO of a leadership development company. In working with nonprofits and businesses, big and small, he realized the unique challenges leaders face when they are committed to keeping the mission and people the top priority. Those leaders’ commitment to their principles and the people they lead, plus seeing the need for more leaders who strive to do the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons, is what inspired Jon to start a leadership development company dedicated to the success of mission-driven leaders and their organiza...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Leadwell podcast, the podcast
where we interviewmission-driven leaders who are
doing it well.
We ask them what they're doingand how they're doing it so that
it can help you lead yourbusiness and your people well.
Are you settling?
Are you feeling like you'rejust settling for what is
instead of what could be?
(00:21):
We all get complacent sometimes, whether it's as people or as
leaders, with our organizations.
Today's guest, walter Nussbaum,is going to walk us through how
do we pursue excellence and doit well.
Let me tell you a little bitabout Walter.
Walter has spent 20 yearsspeaking and helping senior
executives do just this.
(00:41):
Executives do just this.
In addition to this, walter isthe author of two books Do you
have what it Takes?
And the Sink RadicalTransformation.
With One Small Change Fromsmall private companies to
Fortune 100, walter has helpedthem walk through strategies to
pursue excellence, continue todrive growth and be productive.
(01:04):
And he's here with us today.
Stay tuned and listen to allthat he has to say to us as we
pursue excellence.
Walter, thank you so much forjoining us today.
(01:26):
I am so glad that you are hereand that we can talk about
pursuing excellence as leadersand in the workplace.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
John, thanks for the invitation.
Honestly, anytime I get anemail inviting me to talk about
excellence because so much of mylife was born not from
excellence but mediocrity I takeadvantage of it every single
time.
So thanks for the invite.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Well, you said it.
I feel as though we have to gothat way, and I know from my own
personal experience there'salways something that happens,
that kind of changes myperspective, my view on things,
and it sounds like you've had ittoo.
What's going on there with mostof my life in this mediocrity
camp and now excellence?
You got to tell me what's goingon.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, I was probably I want to say a typical kid, but
I just was a very lazy kid.
I don't know if.
You seem like you're a prettyconscientious guy, so have you
always been a pretty?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
responsible kid.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
As a young kid were you pretty conscientious when
you were a kid.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I may have told people that my father has been
training to be a 40, 50-year-oldman since I was 12, yes, but I
don't know that I've always beenthe most responsible.
I think I am a little bitresponsibly mischievous at times
.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Okay, yeah, well, like any kid, Well for me, I was
just flat out, unfortunately.
I was just flat out lazy inmany ways.
My academics showed it, mydisciplines in my life showed it
.
All of my habits were bad.
I mean, I was an athlete and sothe only area of my life really
that maybe any level ofexcellence showed up was in
athletics.
But that was just because Iloved it, and I talk about that
(02:58):
a lot.
By the way, at some point Ihope we can talk about the role
that the heart and theaffections play in shaping the
human narrative.
But for me, excellence wasn'tsomething I even really thought
much about.
I joke because I'm about asaverage as they come.
You know, I graduated literally50 percent of my class in high
(03:23):
school.
I'm five foot nine and a half.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
That's like I'm in that camp with you.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Okay, brown hair, brown eyes, that's pretty
average.
Everything about my life hasjust been average until a moment
in my life when a guy came intomy life.
When I got to college, I wasunderperforming.
I was going into my senior yearwith a 2.3 GPA, just struggling
through school, very lazy.
And if it wasn't for this guynamed Greg Bodden came into my
life, I probably would.
(03:52):
I don't know where I would be,but I certainly wouldn't be
enjoying the fullness of lifethat I'm having today.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So what was it about that encounter that radically
moved you from?
I got a sense in there like aheart for it's average is okay
to now this desire forexcellence.
What was it about thatencounter with Greg that flipped
this switch for you?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, he began to spend time with me.
He was an athlete, he was alittle bit older than me and he
began just to invest time in me.
And I just watched him.
I watched his life, hisdiscipline, the way that he was
a reader.
I was not a reader, I hatedreading books.
I was very undisciplined withreading.
I don't know how much of areader you were growing up, but
for me I avoided it like theplague.
(04:39):
And as I just watched his life,I remember saying to myself I
want to be like this guy.
And he worked for McKinsey.
He was 27 years old, worked forMcKinsey, drove an Audi,
everything about this guy wascool.
He was a good looking guy, greatathlete, played college
basketball and as I just kind ofwatched him, I just thought I
(05:00):
love the way this guy handleshimself.
I love the way I loved hisfaith.
He had a real deep faith in God.
He had real disciplines in hislife and I just wanted to be
more like this guy.
And he just began to speak intomy life.
And one day he said to me,about six months into hanging
out, he said hey, let's grabsome lunch.
And so we met at a place calledBullwinkle Steakhouse and I met
(05:22):
him.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I remember I just can't imagine a better
steakhouse than BullwinkleSteakhouse, and I met him.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I remember I can't imagine a better steakhouse than
Bullwinkle.
This sounds wonderful,bullwinkle.
It was wonderful.
So we met there three o'clockin the afternoon and he said
before we met he said, hey,bring your grade report from
school.
I was like why.
He said just bring it, I wantto see how you're doing.
And somehow I found a gradereport.
I don't know how I found it.
I found one and I remember Ihanded it to him and he earned
the right to kind of say somethings to me at that point and
(05:47):
he kind of gave me a tonguelashing about my grades.
It was at that point a two toone, and he did it in a loving
but very honest way about justhow I should be ashamed of the
way that I'm treating my mind,this mind that God has given me.
I should just be moreintentional about my life and
(06:09):
what it is that I want.
I've got all this ability thatI'm not even tapping into.
Anyway, long story short, itmade a difference and he gave me
a challenge.
And the challenge he gave mewas he said I want you to start
reading 10 pages a day.
And he said that's 3,600 pagesa year, that's 1,200, 300 page
books a year.
And he said if you do that overtime, you're gonna begin to see
some changes in your life.
(06:30):
And I began to do that, john,and what happened was is people
began in conversations, theywould talk about things and I
would start quoting from thebooks and have you read this
book?
And all of a sudden peoplebegan to see me as somebody that
kind of had something to say.
And just over time, myinfluence and my leadership
began to grow, as my leadershipsbegan to, as my disciplines
(06:53):
began to, to follow suit.
So really that was kind of theimpetus, you know, in terms of
what it was, that began theinitial shift, but it came from
me wanting to be like somebody,and that's really where that's
where it started.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So it's simple.
What he gave you was somethingso simple and you said something
.
You said people started to seeme in this way and I'm just
curious when did you start tosee yourself in that way?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Wow, that's a great.
That's a great question.
Actually, I don't thinkanyone's asked me that question,
john, very good, I wouldprobably say that there was
probably a lot of impostersyndrome in me.
I'm reading these books but Inever really believed this is
who I was.
It probably wouldn't be till mylate 20s that I began to really
see myself as a more seriousperson who really had something
(07:47):
to say, who was going to make acontribution to people's lives,
and eventually I made thatdecision that I want to spend
the rest of my life investing mylife into the lives of people
just like you.
That to me that is the legacy Iwant to leave behind is is my
life going to be a fork in theroad to the people that meet me
where they have to make adecision, just like this guy,
(08:09):
greg?
That he was a fork in the roadfor me, and so I strive that was
my mission statement for yearsis to be a fork in the road to
the people that meet me, and tothis day, that's what I strive
to be.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Wow, that is awesome.
Well, I'm, I am feeling that,that connection, uh, because as
I'm listening to your story, I'mrealizing that me and maybe
others out there are like, ohactually, no, I completely
aligned with, uh, this idea ofaverage and mediocrity, and I
was not a reader and I was alsochallenged to to step up and to
do some of these things.
I had a teacher once that tell,when I went to combat a grade,
that said I don't know who youare, I don't think I've seen you
(08:49):
turn anything in.
Like, what have you done toshow me that you earn anything
different than this and verysimilar right To what it sounds
like in yours, that there's alittle bit of this loving truth.
That, ultimately, is for yourbenefit, my benefit, but it's
also like, excuse me, while Itry to swallow this extremely
(09:13):
hard pill, and so I'm sittinghere connecting and resonating
with a lot of what you aresaying and I'm thinking other
people are going to as well, andI, like you, had to do a lot of
the actions before I believedthat that's actually who I was.
And so what type ofencouragement do you have for
someone that's sitting theresaying either I'm in the middle
(09:35):
of it and it's not working, oryet, no, like I'm never going to
be seen that way, what wouldyou tell them if they're kind of
in the throes of that?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
that way, what would you tell them if they're kind of
in the throes of that?
Well, I mean one thing I do say, and I know you and I probably
would agree with this Aristotleonce said in every act of doing
we are becoming and that is aquote for me that has really
become a life quote.
If it's true that in every actof doing we are becoming, that
means that in the process ofcreating these new disciplines
and behaviors and habits, overtime we will become the
(10:06):
embodiment of those things.
So if you have the patience tostay in it and make the choices
you know you need to make,eventually they become reflexive
.
They no longer become merelydisciplines, they become an
overflow of who we are.
And the problem I had, john, tobe honest with you was you know
, there's an interesting word we, in English it's we get this
word called mediocre.
(10:26):
In English, mediocre comes froma Latin word, medius ocris, and
medius ocris in Latin meansmiddle of the mountain, and it
was a word that was created todescribe a certain kind of
person.
And it was a person who wouldlook at the top of a mountain
and say I want to get to thepeak.
And when they get to the middle, they stop and they look out at
the view and they say this isgood enough.
(10:49):
And this is where the majorityof people are, whether it's
their health, whether it's theirfinances, whether it's their
marriages, their relationships,whether it's their faith.
There's an element where youjust get complacent with good
enough, and that was my life forso many years until this
gentleman entered into my lifeand began to invest in my life,
and then I began to really wantto pursue fulfilling whatever
(11:12):
the potential is that I have.
And there's a beautiful Greekword for that too, and that
Greek word is the word arete.
And so, you know, I startedthis thing called the arete way
and the arete center, and so Italk a lot about arete, and
arete in Greek means excellence,but not like excellence that
you did an excellent job.
It means excellence in that youfulfilled your capacity for
(11:33):
something, and that mindset.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I love how that is so different than what we might
think of an excellence that youyou said.
It means that excellence isthat we have filled the capacity
for something.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That's right, that's exactly right.
So what's great about that?
That means is, no matter who weare I'm not comparing myself to
Roger Federer, I'm notcomparing myself to anybody else
that has fulfilled theircapacity I'm looking at what is
my capacity at this stage oflife.
Right now and every day am Itapping into the capacity that I
(12:07):
have today as a person, andhopefully, over time, that
capacity continues to grow, andso I'm living the RTA way right,
which the RTA way is pursuingexcellence as a way of life.
And so, as your capacity grows,your outcomes grow, and so you
can talk about excellence orarete to a 10 year old, to a 30
(12:29):
year old, to a 60 year old,because at any stage in life,
they have a potential, acapacity that they have the
ability to tap into, and thatwas, that was the light bulb
that turned on for me.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking that was the light
bulb that turned on for me.
Yeah, I'm sitting here thinkingis what you're saying, as I
fulfill that capacity, then Iactually become capable of more,
and thus I get to continue tostrive to fill that new capacity
.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
That's right.
Capacity stretches into newcapacities, and so that's
exactly right.
So every time I move up into afulfillment of some capacity,
just the way we're wired, theway it works, is new capacities
open up to allow me to stretchmyself even further.
Otherwise, I become complacentat the capacity that I'm at,
which becomes the new mediocrefor me, right?
(13:19):
So this becomes a mindset,right?
It's the mindset that we haveto try to embed into the people
around us to say what does itlook like to live up to your
capacity as a husband, yourcapacity as a father?
Your, you find out, is there'sa lot of talented people out
there who live on talent but noton the fullness of their
capacity.
(13:39):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
A hundred percent.
I think that they are extremelytalented and they've not yet
met the potential of all thefull capacity that they have,
and I think you took us there.
So let's keep going there.
I'm a leader in an organization, I'm the CEO, I'm the manager
(14:11):
in the middle of theorganization that has a team of
550, 500 underneath me that issupporting all of the work that
we do, supporting all of thework that we do, and I'm looking
and I see a Walter or a John ora Susan or whomever is there
and thinking, man, they'rereally good, but they're not yet
(14:33):
even close to hitting theirstride.
I see so much for them.
What do I do as that leader forthe person or organizationally
even, what do I do to helpeveryone there follow the RIT
way?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, well, there's three areas that I think
comprise the RIT way for aleader.
So I talk a lot about what'scalled delivery value, and it's
the ability of a person to betruly skilled at the job that
they're doing, so that the valuethat they bring every day is
high to the organization.
And you talk about somethinglike this too, john.
(15:11):
I've seen some of your videosand you talk about this idea of
competence in the workplace, howimportant it is to be able to
deliver at a high level.
So that's one element, butunfortunately that's where most
people stop.
As long as I'm delivering at ahigh level on my job, they feel
like that's the fulfillment oftheir capacity work.
But it's not.
That's just one of the three.
Communicator am I?
(15:31):
How effectively am I able toinspire and motivate the people
around me?
How much am I reproducingmyself in the lives of others,
where I'm mentoring and coachingand training other people?
(15:51):
And then there's that one lastpiece, which is, I would say,
the most important of the three,and that is the character
development of the individual.
What does courage look like inmy life?
Do I speak up when I shouldspeak up?
Do I challenge ideas when Ishould challenge ideas?
Am I risk averse or do I leaninto challenges?
What's my humility in life looklike?
Do I apologize?
Do I go to people andacknowledge my mistakes?
(16:13):
There's so many areas ofcharacter.
What's my self-discipline looklike?
What does wisdom look like inmy life?
All of these things.
So the opportunities for Arate,for excellence to develop,
exists in so many areas of lifethat, whether it's delivery
value, whether it's socialcompetencies or whether it's
(16:34):
character development, thosethree areas all comprise what I
call the total leader.
So that's what I challengeleaders to invest in and their
people every day is their jobskills, their social skills and
their character competencies.
You do those three things andyou're going to help people
begin to develop that R&Tmindset.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Job skills, people skills and character
competencies, and I couldn'thelp it.
As you were talking throughthem, I almost saw them as that
mountain.
And what's going through myhead is you know, we rise to the
level of our talents, we fallto the level of our character.
And yet, as I was listening toyou describe it, it's almost as
(17:15):
though character was thepinnacle, and like, the base
level was I can do my job.
And then the next level was Ican do my job in a way that
builds trust, relates withpeople, can communicate with
people, and then the highestlevel was character.
Is that how you see it?
Am I missing it?
Where or how would you stackthese?
Or is it not even a mountain?
Is it something that's totallydifferent?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
John, I love that.
You probably built my nextmodel for me, but I love the way
you put that together andyou're right Now.
I've always taught thatcharacter is, of the three, the
one that has the most logicalimportance, because if you lack
the character, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and I love how youactually put it in the form of a
mountain.
So in our next podcast togetherI'm going to show the mountain
(17:57):
with character development atthe top social competencies in
the middle and we start withskills, which are probably the
easiest things to teach anyway,right?
People always talk about hardskills and soft skills.
I always call them hard skillsand harder skills.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
To me the hard skills right, isn't that true?
So true.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
You can teach people.
You know hard skills.
It just takes a little bit oftime and training and you'll get
there.
But people skills, that's tough, that's a harder skill.
Yeah, because they're dynamic.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I can systematize my job.
I can't systematize people.
When we do that, we run intomajor problems that we've all
seen.
So it's dynamic and I got to beable to read all of the context
clues that are going there.
I love the way that you putthat hard skills.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I mean how many people have said to you, john,
that the biggest problem theyhave, that they deal with day to
day, is people and cultureissues?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
A hundred percent, every single person every single
day every day.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
That's exactly right.
And so learning the job I meanthat's just learning the job.
You go to school, get someeducation, maybe get some
training, have somebody you know, you shadow somebody.
You're going to learn the job.
Just give us some time.
But the people side of it, man,that requires a real dedication
and commitment to be versatile,to meet people where they're at
, to be able to build trustright.
I've always defined trust asthe degree to which you believe
(19:17):
someone is for you.
So when a leader has theability to demonstrate to
everybody around them thatthey're for them, that takes a
lot of work and capability.
And then, like you said, to getto the top of that mountain
character, humility and courageand wisdom and kindness and
goodness and these things, theseare virtues that actually
(19:38):
become a part of who we are,which means we have to do them
long enough to they become afeature of our DNA, right?
They become features of who weare.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It goes all the way back to what you opened up with
is that you were doing a lot ofthese things before.
It was a part of your identityand that seems to be the same
with character is that I have todo some of these things, kind
of like you said before, where Istarted reading and I was doing
the actions before it became myidentity.
When I am kind, when I am good,when I show up humble, all of a
(20:10):
sudden it starts to become apiece of who I am and what I do
points to who I am becoming.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That is 100% correct.
That's right.
We've become the product of thesum of our choices, right?
So when you think about, forinstance, the word character, it
literally means to etch, andthe reason is because characters
early on were simply symbolics.
They were symbols of language,so it was alphabet, it was the
(20:37):
alphabet, it was numerical, theywere called characters, and
over time that word evolved totake on the idea of the
character of an individual,which means that, just like they
used to have to etch letteringinto stone and wood and marble,
everything we do is an etch intous, and every time you etch
that it becomes more of animprint into you.
(20:58):
And so the more you do it, themore it becomes who you are.
And that's why we saysomebody's character is the sum
of the choices that they've madein their life.
So you don't change yourcharacter overnight.
Your character is formed by theproduct of choices over time,
that suddenly they are like areflex.
You now reflex your characterbecause it's who you are.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And I have a feeling that there is somewhere in there
that idea that points towardsexcellence.
You said early on, there's thiscomponent about the heart and
the affections, and I get thesense that now that you've been
striving, kind of working toreach the capacity, that full
potential, that there's some ofthis that might also be going on
(21:43):
in there, where it's kind ofetched and it just becomes a
part of the ongoing process.
Is there any connection therewith the heart and the
affections and it becoming a wayof your being?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
100%.
That's right.
In fact, the affections areprobably the strongest
transformational element.
The heart is the strongesttransformational element that
gets a person to committhemselves to long-term change.
Let me give you a great example.
I love this story.
I'm walking into a Starbucksone day and as I'm walking in,
there's people outside at thesetables and they're smoking.
(22:16):
And there was an elderly ladyin front of me and I opened the
door for her.
And as we're walking in, shesays to me I sure am glad I
don't do that anymore.
And I said you used to smoke.
And she said I smoked for 50years.
And I said wow.
I said you don't smoke anymore?
And she said no.
And I said can I ask you howyou did that?
And she said two years ago Ibecame a widow.
(22:36):
My husband had passed away.
And she said at my age.
She said you don't ever expectto meet another wonderful man in
your life.
And I did.
She said about a year ago I metthis wonderful man and we began
to spend some time together.
And she said after a couplemonths he said to me he said you
know my wife.
His wife had passed away fromemphysema.
And he says to her every time Isee you smoke.
(23:00):
It's so painful for me to watchbecause of what I went through
with my wife before she passed.
And he said I just don't knowif I can continue to see you.
And she said do you know thatwas the last day I ever smoked a
cigarette.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
And I said not just cold Turkey done.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And I said you quit a 50 year habit right there.
She said I've never smoked acigarette since then.
And I said how did you do that?
And this is what she said.
And it was beautiful.
She said I guess I loved himmore than I loved smoking.
And the point is what she wassaying is that that's the power
of an affection that when yourheart learns to love something,
(23:38):
the behaviors and themotivations naturally flow out
of it.
And so when a person trulyloves the idea of being a leader
, like John, I'm going to assumeone way you and I are a lot
alike.
I can tell just from our timetogether you love the idea of
being a leader.
Is that true?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
100%.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, and everything that comes with it.
And so you love to read aboutleadership, you love to talk
about leadership, you love toinvest in leaders and you don't
even think about it.
You just do it because it's theoverflow of your heart, that's
your affection.
If you've ever worked withsomebody like I have, who being
a leader is not the product oftheir heart, they feel like it's
(24:17):
a duty that they have to dowith their job.
You and I both know that theyare not doing it out of love.
They're doing it out ofobligation, which means they're
not investing in their peopleprobably the way that they could
or should, because it doesn'tflow out of the heart and so.
I talk a lot about this idea ofaffection, and how do you
develop these affections where,now, suddenly, your loves that
(24:40):
you're creating become themotivating factors, of what
drives you to do what you wantto do?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Wow, I love that and just turn it for us here before
we close.
How do I instill some of thatvery practically inside of an
organization?
Right, the immediate one for meis loving the work.
Right, I can go through hiringto make sure that people are
motivated and inspired by thework.
I can focus on communicatingthe mission, vision, values, and
(25:10):
that one was the first one.
But what are some other waysthat I can help people embrace
excellence, kind of grow totheir full potential by focusing
on affections inside of theworkplace.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I talk about very quicklythree things that really
comprise the dynamic thatcreates new loves, and so
everything that you and I love,everything that anyone who's
watching this podcast loves inlife, these three things are
true about them, and you canactually create new things to
love that you've never lovedbefore if you commit yourself to
(25:44):
these three things.
And I know this is true becauseI today love reading, I today
there's things I love running.
I used to hate running, I loverunning now.
There's things I do today thatI used to not love.
In fact, I shunned them andtoday I love them.
So here they are.
The first thing is you have tobe absolutely clear on what the
(26:06):
value of the thing is.
If you don't find value in it,the chances of you loving it is
virtually zero.
I'm married to Stacey because Irealized there's a value in my
wife, Stacey, before she was mywife, and if I didn't find value
in her, I would have nevergotten that relationship off the
(26:27):
ground.
To someday say I love you andI'm sure it's the same with you,
john right.
So there's got to be a realclarity of value, and this is
one thing that leaders don't dowell.
They do not talk consistentlyenough about what is the value
of the work, of the project, ofthe mission, of the vision, of
what we're all about.
(26:47):
So we have got to be valuecreators and value evangelists
in the workplace.
So let everybody know.
This is why what you're doingis so important.
Secondly, you've got to havesomebody, either an individual
or a group of people that youlook up to, that are people that
you want to aspire to be morelike.
(27:08):
This is Greg bought for me.
So when I looked at Greg bought, here's a guy that I valued,
who he was.
I saw value in his life and Iwanted more of what he had and
he loved me and he spent timewith me and he invested in me
and it made me want to spendmore time with him.
As I did that, it got into meand then what he did is he began
(27:30):
to make me do number three,which was to now practice the
thing.
Begin reading 10 pages a day,begin getting up earlier in the
morning, doing my workouts inthe morning and not waiting till
3 o'clock in the afternoon,doing my workouts in the morning
and not waiting till threeo'clock in the afternoon, but do
your workouts at 7am so thatyou are controlling your body
(27:51):
and you're not letting your bodycontrol you.
That's what he used to tell meall the time Do your workouts in
the morning, walter.
It's going to make you learn tohave your mind over your body.
So same thing in the workplace.
We need to create mentors.
We need to create theseprograms where people are
shadowing people that theyadmire and aspire to be more
(28:11):
like.
And if you can do those threethings, over time that thing
will become an affection for you, because you value it, because
you've got somebody you admireand you look up to, that models
it, and because you've beendoing it.
Now you've been doing the thingand over time it becomes part
of who you are.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Wow, I'm sitting here thinking for all the leaders
that you, walter, and I probablyengage with, and sometimes
there's a culture of complacencyand it's hard to talk about
excellence.
It's hard to step into thatdifficult conversation where
we're saying something like youneed to be reading 10 pages a
(28:54):
day, or this isn't the capacitythat I see for you.
What do you see for yourself.
That can be really hard, andyet I hope what all of you just
got from Walter is one.
We need it because, left to ourown devices, we might settle
for mediocre and think thatmiddle of the mountain view is
great.
Two, that it really is fortheir best interest.
(29:18):
And when you come at it with aheart of earning that
relationship and leaning in,it's going to be something that
can be good for everybodyinvolved.
And he's got some framework.
So go back and listen, jot themdown as I have, draw the little
mountain and where all thesethings go.
And, walter, this has been sogreat, but I would be remiss if,
before leaving, I asked you thequestion we ask everybody,
(29:40):
which is Walter what does itmean to you to lead well?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I would say to lead well would be number one.
To lead myself well.
That I've got to be anintegrated person, that who I'm
trying to get other people to be, I'm striving to be myself.
So it's got to start with me.
You can't fake it right.
Eventually it gets found out.
So I've got to be the personthat I'm describing to others,
that they should strive tobecome like.
(30:08):
And then I would say thatleading others well is about
reproducing a part of you inthem.
That leading others is takingyour DNA and imposing that DNA
onto others, that they began tohave the same loves and desires
and influences that influencedyou.
So I think leadership,ultimately leading well, is
(30:30):
about influence.
It's about influencing yourselfand influencing the people
around you.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
You have to lead yourself well before you can
lead others well before you canreplicate the things that you
want to see.
That is awesome, walter.
Thank you so much.
Where can people connect withyou?
I follow you on Instagram.
I know there's a website.
Point us in the direction wherepeople can connect with you.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
LinkedIn.
Obviously, if they want toconnect business-wise, it's
Walter Nussbaum.
There's only one in the entirecountry, thankfully, so I'm easy
to find Walter Nussbaum, yep,so that's probably the best way
on business.
In terms of Instagram, it'sactually the Arate Way.
It's not even my name, it'sA-R-E-T-E.
The Arate Way.
It's a great little fun channel.
I do little short videos and,yeah, connect with me on there
(31:13):
and I'd love to help however Ican.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Awesome and we will make sure those links are in the
show notes so that anybody candownload those.
And, as I said, this is one.
Go back, re-listen to theepisode, take the things in
there, take the encouragement,take the challenge that Walter
also put out there, so that youcan continue to lead well
wherever you are and pursueexcellence, because the work
(31:36):
that you do matters.
My friends, thank you for beingwith us today.
Be well, god bless, and lead on.
Welcome to the Leadwell podcast, the podcast
where we interviewmission-driven leaders who are
doing it well.
We ask them what they're doingand how they're doing it so that
it can help you lead yourbusiness and your people well.
Are you settling?
Are you feeling like you'rejust settling for what is
instead of what could be?
(00:21):
We all get complacent sometimes, whether it's as people or as
leaders, with our organizations.
Today's guest, walter Nussbaum,is going to walk us through how
do we pursue excellence and doit well.
Let me tell you a little bitabout Walter.
Walter has spent 20 yearsspeaking and helping senior
executives do just this.
(00:41):
Executives do just this.
In addition to this, walter isthe author of two books Do you
have what it Takes?
And the Sink RadicalTransformation.
With One Small Change Fromsmall private companies to
Fortune 100, walter has helpedthem walk through strategies to
pursue excellence, continue todrive growth and be productive.
(01:04):
And he's here with us today.
Stay tuned and listen to allthat he has to say to us as we
pursue excellence.
Walter, thank you so much forjoining us today.
(01:26):
I am so glad that you are hereand that we can talk about
pursuing excellence as leadersand in the workplace.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
John, thanks for the invitation.
Honestly, anytime I get anemail inviting me to talk about
excellence because so much of mylife was born not from
excellence but mediocrity I takeadvantage of it every single
time.
So thanks for the invite.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Well, you said it.
I feel as though we have to gothat way, and I know from my own
personal experience there'salways something that happens,
that kind of changes myperspective, my view on things,
and it sounds like you've had ittoo.
What's going on there with mostof my life in this mediocrity
camp and now excellence?
You got to tell me what's goingon.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, I was probably I want to say a typical kid, but
I just was a very lazy kid.
I don't know if.
You seem like you're a prettyconscientious guy, so have you
always been a pretty?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
responsible kid.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
As a young kid were you pretty conscientious when
you were a kid.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I may have told people that my father has been
training to be a 40, 50-year-oldman since I was 12, yes, but I
don't know that I've always beenthe most responsible.
I think I am a little bitresponsibly mischievous at times
.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Okay, yeah, well, like any kid, Well for me, I was
just flat out, unfortunately.
I was just flat out lazy inmany ways.
My academics showed it, mydisciplines in my life showed it
.
All of my habits were bad.
I mean, I was an athlete and sothe only area of my life really
that maybe any level ofexcellence showed up was in
athletics.
But that was just because Iloved it, and I talk about that
(02:58):
a lot.
By the way, at some point Ihope we can talk about the role
that the heart and theaffections play in shaping the
human narrative.
But for me, excellence wasn'tsomething I even really thought
much about.
I joke because I'm about asaverage as they come.
You know, I graduated literally50 percent of my class in high
(03:23):
school.
I'm five foot nine and a half.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
That's like I'm in that camp with you.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Okay, brown hair, brown eyes, that's pretty
average.
Everything about my life hasjust been average until a moment
in my life when a guy came intomy life.
When I got to college, I wasunderperforming.
I was going into my senior yearwith a 2.3 GPA, just struggling
through school, very lazy.
And if it wasn't for this guynamed Greg Bodden came into my
life, I probably would.
(03:52):
I don't know where I would be,but I certainly wouldn't be
enjoying the fullness of lifethat I'm having today.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So what was it about that encounter that radically
moved you from?
I got a sense in there like aheart for it's average is okay
to now this desire forexcellence.
What was it about thatencounter with Greg that flipped
this switch for you?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, he began to spend time with me.
He was an athlete, he was alittle bit older than me and he
began just to invest time in me.
And I just watched him.
I watched his life, hisdiscipline, the way that he was
a reader.
I was not a reader, I hatedreading books.
I was very undisciplined withreading.
I don't know how much of areader you were growing up, but
for me I avoided it like theplague.
(04:39):
And as I just watched his life,I remember saying to myself I
want to be like this guy.
And he worked for McKinsey.
He was 27 years old, worked forMcKinsey, drove an Audi,
everything about this guy wascool.
He was a good looking guy, greatathlete, played college
basketball and as I just kind ofwatched him, I just thought I
(05:00):
love the way this guy handleshimself.
I love the way I loved hisfaith.
He had a real deep faith in God.
He had real disciplines in hislife and I just wanted to be
more like this guy.
And he just began to speak intomy life.
And one day he said to me,about six months into hanging
out, he said hey, let's grabsome lunch.
And so we met at a place calledBullwinkle Steakhouse and I met
(05:22):
him.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I remember I just can't imagine a better
steakhouse than BullwinkleSteakhouse, and I met him.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I remember I can't imagine a better steakhouse than
Bullwinkle.
This sounds wonderful,bullwinkle.
It was wonderful.
So we met there three o'clockin the afternoon and he said
before we met he said, hey,bring your grade report from
school.
I was like why.
He said just bring it, I wantto see how you're doing.
And somehow I found a gradereport.
I don't know how I found it.
I found one and I remember Ihanded it to him and he earned
the right to kind of say somethings to me at that point and
(05:47):
he kind of gave me a tonguelashing about my grades.
It was at that point a two toone, and he did it in a loving
but very honest way about justhow I should be ashamed of the
way that I'm treating my mind,this mind that God has given me.
I should just be moreintentional about my life and
(06:09):
what it is that I want.
I've got all this ability thatI'm not even tapping into.
Anyway, long story short, itmade a difference and he gave me
a challenge.
And the challenge he gave mewas he said I want you to start
reading 10 pages a day.
And he said that's 3,600 pagesa year, that's 1,200, 300 page
books a year.
And he said if you do that overtime, you're gonna begin to see
some changes in your life.
(06:30):
And I began to do that, john,and what happened was is people
began in conversations, theywould talk about things and I
would start quoting from thebooks and have you read this
book?
And all of a sudden peoplebegan to see me as somebody that
kind of had something to say.
And just over time, myinfluence and my leadership
began to grow, as my leadershipsbegan to, as my disciplines
(06:53):
began to, to follow suit.
So really that was kind of theimpetus, you know, in terms of
what it was, that began theinitial shift, but it came from
me wanting to be like somebody,and that's really where that's
where it started.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So it's simple.
What he gave you was somethingso simple and you said something
.
You said people started to seeme in this way and I'm just
curious when did you start tosee yourself in that way?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Wow, that's a great.
That's a great question.
Actually, I don't thinkanyone's asked me that question,
john, very good, I wouldprobably say that there was
probably a lot of impostersyndrome in me.
I'm reading these books but Inever really believed this is
who I was.
It probably wouldn't be till mylate 20s that I began to really
see myself as a more seriousperson who really had something
(07:47):
to say, who was going to make acontribution to people's lives,
and eventually I made thatdecision that I want to spend
the rest of my life investing mylife into the lives of people
just like you.
That to me that is the legacy Iwant to leave behind is is my
life going to be a fork in theroad to the people that meet me
where they have to make adecision, just like this guy,
(08:09):
greg?
That he was a fork in the roadfor me, and so I strive that was
my mission statement for yearsis to be a fork in the road to
the people that meet me, and tothis day, that's what I strive
to be.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Wow, that is awesome.
Well, I'm, I am feeling that,that connection, uh, because as
I'm listening to your story, I'mrealizing that me and maybe
others out there are like, ohactually, no, I completely
aligned with, uh, this idea ofaverage and mediocrity, and I
was not a reader and I was alsochallenged to to step up and to
do some of these things.
I had a teacher once that tell,when I went to combat a grade,
that said I don't know who youare, I don't think I've seen you
(08:49):
turn anything in.
Like, what have you done toshow me that you earn anything
different than this and verysimilar right To what it sounds
like in yours, that there's alittle bit of this loving truth.
That, ultimately, is for yourbenefit, my benefit, but it's
also like, excuse me, while Itry to swallow this extremely
(09:13):
hard pill, and so I'm sittinghere connecting and resonating
with a lot of what you aresaying and I'm thinking other
people are going to as well, andI, like you, had to do a lot of
the actions before I believedthat that's actually who I was.
And so what type ofencouragement do you have for
someone that's sitting theresaying either I'm in the middle
(09:35):
of it and it's not working, oryet, no, like I'm never going to
be seen that way, what wouldyou tell them if they're kind of
in the throes of that?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
that way, what would you tell them if they're kind of
in the throes of that?
Well, I mean one thing I do say, and I know you and I probably
would agree with this Aristotleonce said in every act of doing
we are becoming and that is aquote for me that has really
become a life quote.
If it's true that in every actof doing we are becoming, that
means that in the process ofcreating these new disciplines
and behaviors and habits, overtime we will become the
(10:06):
embodiment of those things.
So if you have the patience tostay in it and make the choices
you know you need to make,eventually they become reflexive
.
They no longer become merelydisciplines, they become an
overflow of who we are.
And the problem I had, john, tobe honest with you was you know
, there's an interesting word we, in English it's we get this
word called mediocre.
(10:26):
In English, mediocre comes froma Latin word, medius ocris, and
medius ocris in Latin meansmiddle of the mountain, and it
was a word that was created todescribe a certain kind of
person.
And it was a person who wouldlook at the top of a mountain
and say I want to get to thepeak.
And when they get to the middle, they stop and they look out at
the view and they say this isgood enough.
(10:49):
And this is where the majorityof people are, whether it's
their health, whether it's theirfinances, whether it's their
marriages, their relationships,whether it's their faith.
There's an element where youjust get complacent with good
enough, and that was my life forso many years until this
gentleman entered into my lifeand began to invest in my life,
and then I began to really wantto pursue fulfilling whatever
(11:12):
the potential is that I have.
And there's a beautiful Greekword for that too, and that
Greek word is the word arete.
And so, you know, I startedthis thing called the arete way
and the arete center, and so Italk a lot about arete, and
arete in Greek means excellence,but not like excellence that
you did an excellent job.
It means excellence in that youfulfilled your capacity for
(11:33):
something, and that mindset.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I love how that is so different than what we might
think of an excellence that youyou said.
It means that excellence isthat we have filled the capacity
for something.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That's right, that's exactly right.
So what's great about that?
That means is, no matter who weare I'm not comparing myself to
Roger Federer, I'm notcomparing myself to anybody else
that has fulfilled theircapacity I'm looking at what is
my capacity at this stage oflife.
Right now and every day am Itapping into the capacity that I
(12:07):
have today as a person, andhopefully, over time, that
capacity continues to grow, andso I'm living the RTA way right,
which the RTA way is pursuingexcellence as a way of life.
And so, as your capacity grows,your outcomes grow, and so you
can talk about excellence orarete to a 10 year old, to a 30
(12:29):
year old, to a 60 year old,because at any stage in life,
they have a potential, acapacity that they have the
ability to tap into, and thatwas, that was the light bulb
that turned on for me.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking that was the light
bulb that turned on for me.
Yeah, I'm sitting here thinkingis what you're saying, as I
fulfill that capacity, then Iactually become capable of more,
and thus I get to continue tostrive to fill that new capacity
.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
That's right.
Capacity stretches into newcapacities, and so that's
exactly right.
So every time I move up into afulfillment of some capacity,
just the way we're wired, theway it works, is new capacities
open up to allow me to stretchmyself even further.
Otherwise, I become complacentat the capacity that I'm at,
which becomes the new mediocrefor me, right?
(13:19):
So this becomes a mindset,right?
It's the mindset that we haveto try to embed into the people
around us to say what does itlook like to live up to your
capacity as a husband, yourcapacity as a father?
Your, you find out, is there'sa lot of talented people out
there who live on talent but noton the fullness of their
capacity.
(13:39):
Would you agree with that?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
A hundred percent.
I think that they are extremelytalented and they've not yet
met the potential of all thefull capacity that they have,
and I think you took us there.
So let's keep going there.
I'm a leader in an organization, I'm the CEO, I'm the manager
(14:11):
in the middle of theorganization that has a team of
550, 500 underneath me that issupporting all of the work that
we do, supporting all of thework that we do, and I'm looking
and I see a Walter or a John ora Susan or whomever is there
and thinking, man, they'rereally good, but they're not yet
(14:33):
even close to hitting theirstride.
I see so much for them.
What do I do as that leader forthe person or organizationally
even, what do I do to helpeveryone there follow the RIT
way?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, well, there's three areas that I think
comprise the RIT way for aleader.
So I talk a lot about what'scalled delivery value, and it's
the ability of a person to betruly skilled at the job that
they're doing, so that the valuethat they bring every day is
high to the organization.
And you talk about somethinglike this too, john.
(15:11):
I've seen some of your videosand you talk about this idea of
competence in the workplace, howimportant it is to be able to
deliver at a high level.
So that's one element, butunfortunately that's where most
people stop.
As long as I'm delivering at ahigh level on my job, they feel
like that's the fulfillment oftheir capacity work.
But it's not.
That's just one of the three.
Communicator am I?
(15:31):
How effectively am I able toinspire and motivate the people
around me?
How much am I reproducingmyself in the lives of others,
where I'm mentoring and coachingand training other people?
(15:51):
And then there's that one lastpiece, which is, I would say,
the most important of the three,and that is the character
development of the individual.
What does courage look like inmy life?
Do I speak up when I shouldspeak up?
Do I challenge ideas when Ishould challenge ideas?
Am I risk averse or do I leaninto challenges?
What's my humility in life looklike?
Do I apologize?
Do I go to people andacknowledge my mistakes?
(16:13):
There's so many areas ofcharacter.
What's my self-discipline looklike?
What does wisdom look like inmy life?
All of these things.
So the opportunities for Arate,for excellence to develop,
exists in so many areas of lifethat, whether it's delivery
value, whether it's socialcompetencies or whether it's
(16:34):
character development, thosethree areas all comprise what I
call the total leader.
So that's what I challengeleaders to invest in and their
people every day is their jobskills, their social skills and
their character competencies.
You do those three things andyou're going to help people
begin to develop that R&Tmindset.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Job skills, people skills and character
competencies, and I couldn'thelp it.
As you were talking throughthem, I almost saw them as that
mountain.
And what's going through myhead is you know, we rise to the
level of our talents, we fallto the level of our character.
And yet, as I was listening toyou describe it, it's almost as
(17:15):
though character was thepinnacle, and like, the base
level was I can do my job.
And then the next level was Ican do my job in a way that
builds trust, relates withpeople, can communicate with
people, and then the highestlevel was character.
Is that how you see it?
Am I missing it?
Where or how would you stackthese?
Or is it not even a mountain?
Is it something that's totallydifferent?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
John, I love that.
You probably built my nextmodel for me, but I love the way
you put that together andyou're right Now.
I've always taught thatcharacter is, of the three, the
one that has the most logicalimportance, because if you lack
the character, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and I love how youactually put it in the form of a
mountain.
So in our next podcast togetherI'm going to show the mountain
(17:57):
with character development atthe top social competencies in
the middle and we start withskills, which are probably the
easiest things to teach anyway,right?
People always talk about hardskills and soft skills.
I always call them hard skillsand harder skills.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
To me the hard skills right, isn't that true?
So true.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
You can teach people.
You know hard skills.
It just takes a little bit oftime and training and you'll get
there.
But people skills, that's tough, that's a harder skill.
Yeah, because they're dynamic.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I can systematize my job.
I can't systematize people.
When we do that, we run intomajor problems that we've all
seen.
So it's dynamic and I got to beable to read all of the context
clues that are going there.
I love the way that you putthat hard skills.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I mean how many people have said to you, john,
that the biggest problem theyhave, that they deal with day to
day, is people and cultureissues?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
A hundred percent, every single person every single
day every day.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
That's exactly right.
And so learning the job I meanthat's just learning the job.
You go to school, get someeducation, maybe get some
training, have somebody you know, you shadow somebody.
You're going to learn the job.
Just give us some time.
But the people side of it, man,that requires a real dedication
and commitment to be versatile,to meet people where they're at
, to be able to build trustright.
I've always defined trust asthe degree to which you believe
(19:17):
someone is for you.
So when a leader has theability to demonstrate to
everybody around them thatthey're for them, that takes a
lot of work and capability.
And then, like you said, to getto the top of that mountain
character, humility and courageand wisdom and kindness and
goodness and these things, theseare virtues that actually
(19:38):
become a part of who we are,which means we have to do them
long enough to they become afeature of our DNA, right?
They become features of who weare.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It goes all the way back to what you opened up with
is that you were doing a lot ofthese things before.
It was a part of your identityand that seems to be the same
with character is that I have todo some of these things, kind
of like you said before, where Istarted reading and I was doing
the actions before it became myidentity.
When I am kind, when I am good,when I show up humble, all of a
(20:10):
sudden it starts to become apiece of who I am and what I do
points to who I am becoming.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
That is 100% correct.
That's right.
We've become the product of thesum of our choices, right?
So when you think about, forinstance, the word character, it
literally means to etch, andthe reason is because characters
early on were simply symbolics.
They were symbols of language,so it was alphabet, it was the
(20:37):
alphabet, it was numerical, theywere called characters, and
over time that word evolved totake on the idea of the
character of an individual,which means that, just like they
used to have to etch letteringinto stone and wood and marble,
everything we do is an etch intous, and every time you etch
that it becomes more of animprint into you.
(20:58):
And so the more you do it, themore it becomes who you are.
And that's why we saysomebody's character is the sum
of the choices that they've madein their life.
So you don't change yourcharacter overnight.
Your character is formed by theproduct of choices over time,
that suddenly they are like areflex.
You now reflex your characterbecause it's who you are.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
And I have a feeling that there is somewhere in there
that idea that points towardsexcellence.
You said early on, there's thiscomponent about the heart and
the affections, and I get thesense that now that you've been
striving, kind of working toreach the capacity, that full
potential, that there's some ofthis that might also be going on
(21:43):
in there, where it's kind ofetched and it just becomes a
part of the ongoing process.
Is there any connection therewith the heart and the
affections and it becoming a wayof your being?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
100%.
That's right.
In fact, the affections areprobably the strongest
transformational element.
The heart is the strongesttransformational element that
gets a person to committhemselves to long-term change.
Let me give you a great example.
I love this story.
I'm walking into a Starbucksone day and as I'm walking in,
there's people outside at thesetables and they're smoking.
(22:16):
And there was an elderly ladyin front of me and I opened the
door for her.
And as we're walking in, shesays to me I sure am glad I
don't do that anymore.
And I said you used to smoke.
And she said I smoked for 50years.
And I said wow.
I said you don't smoke anymore?
And she said no.
And I said can I ask you howyou did that?
And she said two years ago Ibecame a widow.
(22:36):
My husband had passed away.
And she said at my age.
She said you don't ever expectto meet another wonderful man in
your life.
And I did.
She said about a year ago I metthis wonderful man and we began
to spend some time together.
And she said after a couplemonths he said to me he said you
know my wife.
His wife had passed away fromemphysema.
And he says to her every time Isee you smoke.
(23:00):
It's so painful for me to watchbecause of what I went through
with my wife before she passed.
And he said I just don't knowif I can continue to see you.
And she said do you know thatwas the last day I ever smoked a
cigarette.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
And I said not just cold Turkey done.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And I said you quit a 50 year habit right there.
She said I've never smoked acigarette since then.
And I said how did you do that?
And this is what she said.
And it was beautiful.
She said I guess I loved himmore than I loved smoking.
And the point is what she wassaying is that that's the power
of an affection that when yourheart learns to love something,
(23:38):
the behaviors and themotivations naturally flow out
of it.
And so when a person trulyloves the idea of being a leader
, like John, I'm going to assumeone way you and I are a lot
alike.
I can tell just from our timetogether you love the idea of
being a leader.
Is that true?
Speaker 1 (23:55):
100%.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Yeah, and everything that comes with it.
And so you love to read aboutleadership, you love to talk
about leadership, you love toinvest in leaders and you don't
even think about it.
You just do it because it's theoverflow of your heart, that's
your affection.
If you've ever worked withsomebody like I have, who being
a leader is not the product oftheir heart, they feel like it's
(24:17):
a duty that they have to dowith their job.
You and I both know that theyare not doing it out of love.
They're doing it out ofobligation, which means they're
not investing in their peopleprobably the way that they could
or should, because it doesn'tflow out of the heart and so.
I talk a lot about this idea ofaffection, and how do you
develop these affections where,now, suddenly, your loves that
(24:40):
you're creating become themotivating factors, of what
drives you to do what you wantto do?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Wow, I love that and just turn it for us here before
we close.
How do I instill some of thatvery practically inside of an
organization?
Right, the immediate one for meis loving the work.
Right, I can go through hiringto make sure that people are
motivated and inspired by thework.
I can focus on communicatingthe mission, vision, values, and
(25:10):
that one was the first one.
But what are some other waysthat I can help people embrace
excellence, kind of grow totheir full potential by focusing
on affections inside of theworkplace.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I talk about very quicklythree things that really
comprise the dynamic thatcreates new loves, and so
everything that you and I love,everything that anyone who's
watching this podcast loves inlife, these three things are
true about them, and you canactually create new things to
love that you've never lovedbefore if you commit yourself to
(25:44):
these three things.
And I know this is true becauseI today love reading, I today
there's things I love running.
I used to hate running, I loverunning now.
There's things I do today thatI used to not love.
In fact, I shunned them andtoday I love them.
So here they are.
The first thing is you have tobe absolutely clear on what the
(26:06):
value of the thing is.
If you don't find value in it,the chances of you loving it is
virtually zero.
I'm married to Stacey because Irealized there's a value in my
wife, Stacey, before she was mywife, and if I didn't find value
in her, I would have nevergotten that relationship off the
(26:27):
ground.
To someday say I love you andI'm sure it's the same with you,
john right.
So there's got to be a realclarity of value, and this is
one thing that leaders don't dowell.
They do not talk consistentlyenough about what is the value
of the work, of the project, ofthe mission, of the vision, of
what we're all about.
(26:47):
So we have got to be valuecreators and value evangelists
in the workplace.
So let everybody know.
This is why what you're doingis so important.
Secondly, you've got to havesomebody, either an individual
or a group of people that youlook up to, that are people that
you want to aspire to be morelike.
(27:08):
This is Greg bought for me.
So when I looked at Greg bought, here's a guy that I valued,
who he was.
I saw value in his life and Iwanted more of what he had and
he loved me and he spent timewith me and he invested in me
and it made me want to spendmore time with him.
As I did that, it got into meand then what he did is he began
(27:30):
to make me do number three,which was to now practice the
thing.
Begin reading 10 pages a day,begin getting up earlier in the
morning, doing my workouts inthe morning and not waiting till
3 o'clock in the afternoon,doing my workouts in the morning
and not waiting till threeo'clock in the afternoon, but do
your workouts at 7am so thatyou are controlling your body
(27:51):
and you're not letting your bodycontrol you.
That's what he used to tell meall the time Do your workouts in
the morning, walter.
It's going to make you learn tohave your mind over your body.
So same thing in the workplace.
We need to create mentors.
We need to create theseprograms where people are
shadowing people that theyadmire and aspire to be more
(28:11):
like.
And if you can do those threethings, over time that thing
will become an affection for you, because you value it, because
you've got somebody you admireand you look up to, that models
it, and because you've beendoing it.
Now you've been doing the thingand over time it becomes part
of who you are.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Wow, I'm sitting here thinking for all the leaders
that you, walter, and I probablyengage with, and sometimes
there's a culture of complacencyand it's hard to talk about
excellence.
It's hard to step into thatdifficult conversation where
we're saying something like youneed to be reading 10 pages a
(28:54):
day, or this isn't the capacitythat I see for you.
What do you see for yourself.
That can be really hard, andyet I hope what all of you just
got from Walter is one.
We need it because, left to ourown devices, we might settle
for mediocre and think thatmiddle of the mountain view is
great.
Two, that it really is fortheir best interest.
(29:18):
And when you come at it with aheart of earning that
relationship and leaning in,it's going to be something that
can be good for everybodyinvolved.
And he's got some framework.
So go back and listen, jot themdown as I have, draw the little
mountain and where all thesethings go.
And, walter, this has been sogreat, but I would be remiss if,
before leaving, I asked you thequestion we ask everybody,
(29:40):
which is Walter what does itmean to you to lead well?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I would say to lead well would be number one.
To lead myself well.
That I've got to be anintegrated person, that who I'm
trying to get other people to be, I'm striving to be myself.
So it's got to start with me.
You can't fake it right.
Eventually it gets found out.
So I've got to be the personthat I'm describing to others,
that they should strive tobecome like.
(30:08):
And then I would say thatleading others well is about
reproducing a part of you inthem.
That leading others is takingyour DNA and imposing that DNA
onto others, that they began tohave the same loves and desires
and influences that influencedyou.
So I think leadership,ultimately leading well, is
(30:30):
about influence.
It's about influencing yourselfand influencing the people
around you.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
You have to lead yourself well before you can
lead others well before you canreplicate the things that you
want to see.
That is awesome, walter.
Thank you so much.
Where can people connect withyou?
I follow you on Instagram.
I know there's a website.
Point us in the direction wherepeople can connect with you.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
LinkedIn.
Obviously, if they want toconnect business-wise, it's
Walter Nussbaum.
There's only one in the entirecountry, thankfully, so I'm easy
to find Walter Nussbaum, yep,so that's probably the best way
on business.
In terms of Instagram, it'sactually the Arate Way.
It's not even my name, it'sA-R-E-T-E.
The Arate Way.
It's a great little fun channel.
I do little short videos and,yeah, connect with me on there
(31:13):
and I'd love to help however Ican.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Awesome and we will make sure those links are in the
show notes so that anybody candownload those.
And, as I said, this is one.
Go back, re-listen to theepisode, take the things in
there, take the encouragement,take the challenge that Walter
also put out there, so that youcan continue to lead well
wherever you are and pursueexcellence, because the work
(31:36):
that you do matters.
My friends, thank you for beingwith us today.
Be well, god bless, and lead on.
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