July 18, 2025 • 14 mins
Harnessing Storytelling for Effective Leadership
In this episode of the Learning to Lead Show, we reflect on the recent interview with Shon Isenhour, focusing on the power of storytelling as a leadership strategy. The discussion covers how purposeful storytelling can drive organizational change, the concept of the Valley of Despair in change initiatives, and book recommendations to further enhance storytelling skills. Key points include the distinction between mere story time and impactful storytelling, as well as tips for navigating and marketing the journey through challenging phases of change. Listeners are encouraged to download Leader Notes for a summary of key takeaways and explore further learning resources.
00:00 Introduction to the Learning to Lead Show
00:19 Introducing Leader Notes
02:06 The Power of Storytelling in Leadership
09:01 Navigating the Valley of Despair
11:59 Recommended Reads for Leaders
14:10 Conclusion and Call to Action
Learning To Lead Free Resources
- Free Book: The Trust Gap
- Get your Free Learning to Lead Leadership Reading Guide Here
- The Learning To Lead Newsletter
- LeaderNotes
🔎 About LeaderNotes
LeaderNotes is a quick-hit companion to each episode of The Learning to Lead Show. In just 5–10 minutes, Mark Cundiff recaps the top leadership insights, frameworks, and action steps from each interview, designed for busy, growth-minded leaders who want to review and apply the episode’s biggest takeaways on the go.
It’s like the highlight reel + playbook—all in one.
Download This Episode's Leadernotes Here: LeaderNotes
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello.
Welcome to the Learning to LeadShow where we help leaders grow
on the go.
Our objective of everything thatwe do is to help good leaders
continue to lead, grow, and movetheir leadership up the level to
where they're moving from.
A good leader to be a greatleader.
Today's podcast is Leader Notes.
(00:22):
It will be a reflection back onthe interview we just had with
Shon Isenhour in the previoustwo episodes.
What I want to do is dive deep aon a few things that Shon
highlighted in order for us tohave some good takeaways.
One of the things that happensto me a lot of times when I
listen to a podcast is that yougo through the podcast, you hear
(00:43):
it, you're listening to it inyour car.
Or while you're walking orexercising and you hear some
really great points, but youdon't have time to reflect on
those, you don't have anotebook, and a pen to help you
write down what you've learned.
So there's two things I wannado.
One, I'm going to provide adocument that summarizes the key
points of the podcast and thatwill be called Leader Notes.
(01:07):
I will put those links in theshow notes for you to be able to
get those.
But I also want to have anepisode after each interview and
just give you some reflection ofthe main points that I got out
of the interview, what reallystuck with me.
So there's three that I want tocover today from our interview
with Shon Isenhour.
And again, if you haven'tlistened to those episodes, it's
(01:28):
the previous two episodes tothis one.
Go back and listen to those andsee what you get out of them for
yourself.
Are you a busy leader whostruggles finding time to learn
and grow?
If so, I then I have the perfectresource for you, the Learning
to Lead Newsletter that Ipublish weekly with five to
seven minutes of quickleadership insights, book
reviews, and tips to help yougrow as a leader, you can get
(01:51):
instant access by going tomarkjcundiff.com/newsletter.
Again, that'smarkjcundiff.com/newsletter or
by clicking the link in the shownotes.
Now let's dive in today I'mgonna dive deep on a few of the
things that he talked about.
One, the power of storytellingto affect change.
(02:14):
One of the things I really wasimpressed with when I listened
to Shon answer the questionabout how he's trying to drive
change in organizations is howhe focused on storytelling.
I've worked in industrialmanufacturing for nearly 40
years.
That has not been a prioritythat you would see in the
communication plans or any ofthe communications activities of
(02:36):
most organizations that are outthere in the industrial
manufacturing some of the thingsthat he highlighted is that the
power of storytelling can affectchange if it's done correctly.
It can be a, it can be a vehiclefor transformation.
His annual theme for hisorganization this year was to
learn to study, storytelling, tounderstand how to do that.
(02:57):
The difference between storytime and purposeful
storytelling.
Some people are really good,they're like.
Jerry Clower, the old comedianor some of the comedians that
you know are out there, JeffFoxworthy, that can tell a good
story and have a good laugh, butthere's no purpose behind the
story that they're telling.
What you have to have in orderto affect change is purposeful
(03:19):
storytelling.
When he talks aboutstorytelling, it's not a
throwaway line, it's aleadership strategy.
It's a specific way to use.
Story to drive improvements.
So many times we get caught upin PowerPoints and statistics
and charts and performancedashboards, that we really lose
(03:41):
the audience and we lose thepower of the moment to drive the
change.
In one organization I workedfor, there was a methodology
that was used when I joined thatorganization when we were trying
to sell a client.
We just fire hosed them to deathwith PowerPoints and data to try
to sell them.
(04:02):
In those situations you mighthave a PowerPoint that would be
upwards 70 slides, sometimeseven a hundred slides full of
charts and data.
All the information in there wasgood information.
It was important information,but what happened by the time
you got about 20 minutes intothat, most of the audience,
their eyes were glazed over andthey didn't have the ability to
(04:24):
really connect the dots with howthat data that was being
presented would move them toneed.
Our organization to help themimpact change.
Later on during my time withthat organization, I worked for
some different leaders where weimplemented some significant
changes in the way we presentedthis material.
(04:45):
We were able to move to more ofa storytelling type of process,
where at the most we would have20 slides.
Most of the times would have 10to 12 slides.
What we would do is we wouldhave the information in the
background if they wanted todive deeper into the statistics
or know more about how we cameto the conclusions that we did,
(05:06):
but we told a story about whattheir current situation was, how
we could help them go through atransformation.
And how that would look and whattheir involvement would be in
that, and what our involvementwould be on that.
Then we give them a picture ofwhat things would look like five
years down the road afterworking with us.
(05:26):
We moved to very much away froma statistical and charts type of
presentation over to astorytelling type of
presentation, and our salesdramatically changed as a result
of that.
Landed some significantaccounts.
During my time working in thatpart of the business.
We booked over a hundred milliondollars in contracts I would
(05:48):
have to say that one of thestrategies.
That we move to storytelling andpainting a picture of the
transformation journey thatwould take place.
Why does stories matter inleadership?
Shon Isenhour's challenge toleaders, especially in technical
and engineering driven culture,is this.
Somewhere along the way wedecided spreadsheets and
(06:09):
acronyms were the best way tocommunicate.
We know that's not true.
It's about the storytelling,about telling a transformation
story that you're going to takethese people on.
That leads me to my first bookrecommendation.
Building a StoryBrand by DonaldMiller.
this book can be used.
In your organization to developa culture story, to develop a
(06:33):
selling culture of what you'retrying to do from a project
standpoint so that you can getprojects approved.
It really takes you through aseven step process of not being
the hero of the story, but beingthe guide.
When you become the guide,you're able to take.
A customer, a client, apotential person that you're
(06:55):
trying to lead and influencethrough a journey where you're
showing them the transformationthat's gonna take place by
working with you or doing thechange initiative that you're
talking about.
Shon argues that leaders are notjust visionaries, they are
storytellers.
People who are able to walktheir people through a journey
(07:20):
of transformation to tell astory about how they're going to
go from point A to point B andgive them a vision of the future
through the power of a story.
He argues that most successfulchange leaders aren't just
visionaries, they'restorytellers.
They don't just roll out chartsor quote productivity gains.
They connect the technical workto the real life wins, these are
(07:42):
not just antidotes, they areculture shaping moments that
need to be told, retold andinternalized.
Storytelling alone isn't enough.
Shon Isenhour warns us that,what he calls the story time
syndrome, where someone enjoysthe spotlight, spends a few fun
tells, but they fail to connectthe dots.
You gotta use storytelling in aneffective manner.
(08:05):
You have to finish the story,and then you have to unpack it
and connect it to what the realworld results are going to be,
and how they impact theorganization in a positive way.
You gotta clarify the takeaway.
You gotta tie it to a principleand you gotta help the listener
see how to apply it.
A good story doesn't justentertain us, it equips us, it
(08:30):
enables us to understand thejourney of transformation that
we're on it could be a forcemultiplier to your
effectiveness.
In his framework, it buildstrust by creating shared
understanding.
It drives change by makingabstract ideals tangible.
It reinforces learning bylinking principles to real
(08:51):
outcomes.
It sustains momentum through thevalley of despair, and it also
creates culture by defining whatwe do and how we do it.
The second key point that I wantto dive into today is the valley
of despair.
I wanna highlight just a fewmoments about this because it
really goes to selling throughthe hard part of change and
(09:15):
using the storytelling to helpyou get through the value of
despair.
What happens many times, we havethis exploitation when we roll
out a change initiative that.
It's just going to be like astraight rocket up of success.
What happens, a lot of timesyou'll have a momentary bump
with some initial excitement andthings improve, but then you go
through a learning curve wherethere's actually a valley in the
(09:38):
performance before you startascending back up.
Just getting back to where youwere before the change
initiative started so what isthe Valley of Despair?
It's a point in every change ininitiative where these things
happen, the initial excitement,AKA, the Hawthorne effect wears
off.
You have that initialassignment, you have some
momentum.
Things start looking good, butthen what happens next?
(10:01):
The new way still seems awkwardand unfamiliar, so people become
slower in doing some of thethings.
They become unsure.
They make more mistakes thanusual.
The old way is still lingeringin the background.
It's a tendency to rubber bandback to the way it used to be.
The return on investmentdefinitely has not occurred yet,
(10:21):
and resistance starts whisperingor shouting, this isn't working.
So you have the naysayers, whichyou always have naysayers when
you go through a changeinitiative that are going to get
louder during the valley ofdespair.
Before you start a changeinitiative, you need to create
an expectation, especially withsome of the higher up executives
in in the company, that there isgoing to be a value of despair,
(10:44):
that there is going to be sometime when things do not go well,
where there's a dip inperformance, and then it won't
be a straight line of justmaking this change initiative
and shooting to recordsovernight, but that there will
be some ups and downs and thatvalley despair.
Will be a trying time foreveryone involved, but you gotta
(11:04):
work through that to get to thegreat results and reap the
benefits on the other side.
So part of it's creatingexpectation.
The second part selling throughthe hard part of change, making
sure that you incorporate thatstorytelling.
You talk about the changes thatyou're making.
Talk about the positive smallmicro winds that you have.
You might have to go and showthat you did this setup in less
(11:26):
time than you've ever done it.
Maybe you have to show that overhere on this machine, their
waste is actually starting todrop because they're catching on
to what's going on.
So you might have to share somemicro winds during that process
to show the things that arehappening that once put all
together are going to make thereturn on investment pay for
(11:46):
going through the Valley ofChange.
So marketing the journey.
Not just the destination is akey.
If you don't sell and marketduring the Valley of despair,
you may never get the chance toreach their ROI, I want to give
you a list of books for those ofyou that want to dive deeper.
There's always people in theaudience that want to learn
(12:06):
more, to go deeper, to studythings a little more.
Again, building the StoryBrandby Donald Miller.
There's a book by Matthew Dixcalled Story Worthy.
It really goes through theprocess of learning how to tell
a story in a good way.
He has a process in there wherehe challenges you to do homework
for life, where you actually.
(12:26):
Capture stories in aspreadsheet.
In other words, this is justyour run of the mill everyday
stories.
It could be a story about yourfamily, it could be a story
about your childhood as theycome to memory.
I'll put a chart in the leadernotes to show you an example of
that.
But it's just a process ofcapturing stories.
One of the things you could doin your workplace is have a
(12:47):
spreadsheet for capturingstories about things that are
going well, things that maybedidn't go well.
To use those stories when you'retrying to sell a change
initiative or sell somethingthat you need to sell in your
organization or promotesomething or celebrate
something.
If you document and keep thesestories in a spreadsheet, then
you have things that'll triggeryour memories.
(13:09):
You're not starting from a blankslate.
The Art of Explanation by LeeLafe has some really good
information about how to explainthings in a way.
That are effective.
The 16 Undeniable Laws ofCommunication by John Maxwell is
a good one about how tocommunicate more effectively,
making numbers count by ChipHeath.
(13:30):
Same author for the Power ofMoments.
Both those books help youcommunicate technical data or
technical information, theMaking numbers Count book.
My son is actually using thatbook as a finance analyst for a
company that he just startedwith, and he's using that when
they try to present some oftheir financial information to
different folks in theorganization.
(13:51):
He also mentioned.
Leading Change by Kotter.
He's got a really good bookabout how you actually go
through the change process in alarge organization.
These are applicable to evensmaller organizations, but he
goes through all the differentstages and all the different
work that you need to do todrive change.
I hope highlighting some ofthese key points will help you
(14:14):
take and put into action whatwe've learned from Sean during
these two episodes.
I hope these books are helpfulto you.
They will be in the leader notesyou can download.
Also, I would encourage you togo to.
Your favorite podcast player andgive us a five star rating.
It would help us get morelistens, also make sure that you
(14:35):
subscribe and if this has beenimpactful for you, please share
with a friend to help us get theword out about the learning to
lead show.
Hello.
Welcome to the Learning to LeadShow where we help leaders grow
on the go.
Our objective of everything thatwe do is to help good leaders
continue to lead, grow, and movetheir leadership up the level to
where they're moving from.
A good leader to be a greatleader.
Today's podcast is Leader Notes.
(00:22):
It will be a reflection back onthe interview we just had with
Shon Isenhour in the previoustwo episodes.
What I want to do is dive deep aon a few things that Shon
highlighted in order for us tohave some good takeaways.
One of the things that happensto me a lot of times when I
listen to a podcast is that yougo through the podcast, you hear
(00:43):
it, you're listening to it inyour car.
Or while you're walking orexercising and you hear some
really great points, but youdon't have time to reflect on
those, you don't have anotebook, and a pen to help you
write down what you've learned.
So there's two things I wannado.
One, I'm going to provide adocument that summarizes the key
points of the podcast and thatwill be called Leader Notes.
(01:07):
I will put those links in theshow notes for you to be able to
get those.
But I also want to have anepisode after each interview and
just give you some reflection ofthe main points that I got out
of the interview, what reallystuck with me.
So there's three that I want tocover today from our interview
with Shon Isenhour.
And again, if you haven'tlistened to those episodes, it's
(01:28):
the previous two episodes tothis one.
Go back and listen to those andsee what you get out of them for
yourself.
Are you a busy leader whostruggles finding time to learn
and grow?
If so, I then I have the perfectresource for you, the Learning
to Lead Newsletter that Ipublish weekly with five to
seven minutes of quickleadership insights, book
reviews, and tips to help yougrow as a leader, you can get
(01:51):
instant access by going tomarkjcundiff.com/newsletter.
Again, that'smarkjcundiff.com/newsletter or
by clicking the link in the shownotes.
Now let's dive in today I'mgonna dive deep on a few of the
things that he talked about.
One, the power of storytellingto affect change.
(02:14):
One of the things I really wasimpressed with when I listened
to Shon answer the questionabout how he's trying to drive
change in organizations is howhe focused on storytelling.
I've worked in industrialmanufacturing for nearly 40
years.
That has not been a prioritythat you would see in the
communication plans or any ofthe communications activities of
(02:36):
most organizations that are outthere in the industrial
manufacturing some of the thingsthat he highlighted is that the
power of storytelling can affectchange if it's done correctly.
It can be a, it can be a vehiclefor transformation.
His annual theme for hisorganization this year was to
learn to study, storytelling, tounderstand how to do that.
(02:57):
The difference between storytime and purposeful
storytelling.
Some people are really good,they're like.
Jerry Clower, the old comedianor some of the comedians that
you know are out there, JeffFoxworthy, that can tell a good
story and have a good laugh, butthere's no purpose behind the
story that they're telling.
What you have to have in orderto affect change is purposeful
(03:19):
storytelling.
When he talks aboutstorytelling, it's not a
throwaway line, it's aleadership strategy.
It's a specific way to use.
Story to drive improvements.
So many times we get caught upin PowerPoints and statistics
and charts and performancedashboards, that we really lose
(03:41):
the audience and we lose thepower of the moment to drive the
change.
In one organization I workedfor, there was a methodology
that was used when I joined thatorganization when we were trying
to sell a client.
We just fire hosed them to deathwith PowerPoints and data to try
to sell them.
(04:02):
In those situations you mighthave a PowerPoint that would be
upwards 70 slides, sometimeseven a hundred slides full of
charts and data.
All the information in there wasgood information.
It was important information,but what happened by the time
you got about 20 minutes intothat, most of the audience,
their eyes were glazed over andthey didn't have the ability to
(04:24):
really connect the dots with howthat data that was being
presented would move them toneed.
Our organization to help themimpact change.
Later on during my time withthat organization, I worked for
some different leaders where weimplemented some significant
changes in the way we presentedthis material.
(04:45):
We were able to move to more ofa storytelling type of process,
where at the most we would have20 slides.
Most of the times would have 10to 12 slides.
What we would do is we wouldhave the information in the
background if they wanted todive deeper into the statistics
or know more about how we cameto the conclusions that we did,
(05:06):
but we told a story about whattheir current situation was, how
we could help them go through atransformation.
And how that would look and whattheir involvement would be in
that, and what our involvementwould be on that.
Then we give them a picture ofwhat things would look like five
years down the road afterworking with us.
(05:26):
We moved to very much away froma statistical and charts type of
presentation over to astorytelling type of
presentation, and our salesdramatically changed as a result
of that.
Landed some significantaccounts.
During my time working in thatpart of the business.
We booked over a hundred milliondollars in contracts I would
(05:48):
have to say that one of thestrategies.
That we move to storytelling andpainting a picture of the
transformation journey thatwould take place.
Why does stories matter inleadership?
Shon Isenhour's challenge toleaders, especially in technical
and engineering driven culture,is this.
Somewhere along the way wedecided spreadsheets and
(06:09):
acronyms were the best way tocommunicate.
We know that's not true.
It's about the storytelling,about telling a transformation
story that you're going to takethese people on.
That leads me to my first bookrecommendation.
Building a StoryBrand by DonaldMiller.
this book can be used.
In your organization to developa culture story, to develop a
(06:33):
selling culture of what you'retrying to do from a project
standpoint so that you can getprojects approved.
It really takes you through aseven step process of not being
the hero of the story, but beingthe guide.
When you become the guide,you're able to take.
A customer, a client, apotential person that you're
(06:55):
trying to lead and influencethrough a journey where you're
showing them the transformationthat's gonna take place by
working with you or doing thechange initiative that you're
talking about.
Shon argues that leaders are notjust visionaries, they are
storytellers.
People who are able to walktheir people through a journey
(07:20):
of transformation to tell astory about how they're going to
go from point A to point B andgive them a vision of the future
through the power of a story.
He argues that most successfulchange leaders aren't just
visionaries, they'restorytellers.
They don't just roll out chartsor quote productivity gains.
They connect the technical workto the real life wins, these are
(07:42):
not just antidotes, they areculture shaping moments that
need to be told, retold andinternalized.
Storytelling alone isn't enough.
Shon Isenhour warns us that,what he calls the story time
syndrome, where someone enjoysthe spotlight, spends a few fun
tells, but they fail to connectthe dots.
You gotta use storytelling in aneffective manner.
(08:05):
You have to finish the story,and then you have to unpack it
and connect it to what the realworld results are going to be,
and how they impact theorganization in a positive way.
You gotta clarify the takeaway.
You gotta tie it to a principleand you gotta help the listener
see how to apply it.
A good story doesn't justentertain us, it equips us, it
(08:30):
enables us to understand thejourney of transformation that
we're on it could be a forcemultiplier to your
effectiveness.
In his framework, it buildstrust by creating shared
understanding.
It drives change by makingabstract ideals tangible.
It reinforces learning bylinking principles to real
(08:51):
outcomes.
It sustains momentum through thevalley of despair, and it also
creates culture by defining whatwe do and how we do it.
The second key point that I wantto dive into today is the valley
of despair.
I wanna highlight just a fewmoments about this because it
really goes to selling throughthe hard part of change and
(09:15):
using the storytelling to helpyou get through the value of
despair.
What happens many times, we havethis exploitation when we roll
out a change initiative that.
It's just going to be like astraight rocket up of success.
What happens, a lot of timesyou'll have a momentary bump
with some initial excitement andthings improve, but then you go
through a learning curve wherethere's actually a valley in the
(09:38):
performance before you startascending back up.
Just getting back to where youwere before the change
initiative started so what isthe Valley of Despair?
It's a point in every change ininitiative where these things
happen, the initial excitement,AKA, the Hawthorne effect wears
off.
You have that initialassignment, you have some
momentum.
Things start looking good, butthen what happens next?
(10:01):
The new way still seems awkwardand unfamiliar, so people become
slower in doing some of thethings.
They become unsure.
They make more mistakes thanusual.
The old way is still lingeringin the background.
It's a tendency to rubber bandback to the way it used to be.
The return on investmentdefinitely has not occurred yet,
(10:21):
and resistance starts whisperingor shouting, this isn't working.
So you have the naysayers, whichyou always have naysayers when
you go through a changeinitiative that are going to get
louder during the valley ofdespair.
Before you start a changeinitiative, you need to create
an expectation, especially withsome of the higher up executives
in in the company, that there isgoing to be a value of despair,
(10:44):
that there is going to be sometime when things do not go well,
where there's a dip inperformance, and then it won't
be a straight line of justmaking this change initiative
and shooting to recordsovernight, but that there will
be some ups and downs and thatvalley despair.
Will be a trying time foreveryone involved, but you gotta
(11:04):
work through that to get to thegreat results and reap the
benefits on the other side.
So part of it's creatingexpectation.
The second part selling throughthe hard part of change, making
sure that you incorporate thatstorytelling.
You talk about the changes thatyou're making.
Talk about the positive smallmicro winds that you have.
You might have to go and showthat you did this setup in less
(11:26):
time than you've ever done it.
Maybe you have to show that overhere on this machine, their
waste is actually starting todrop because they're catching on
to what's going on.
So you might have to share somemicro winds during that process
to show the things that arehappening that once put all
together are going to make thereturn on investment pay for
(11:46):
going through the Valley ofChange.
So marketing the journey.
Not just the destination is akey.
If you don't sell and marketduring the Valley of despair,
you may never get the chance toreach their ROI, I want to give
you a list of books for those ofyou that want to dive deeper.
There's always people in theaudience that want to learn
(12:06):
more, to go deeper, to studythings a little more.
Again, building the StoryBrandby Donald Miller.
There's a book by Matthew Dixcalled Story Worthy.
It really goes through theprocess of learning how to tell
a story in a good way.
He has a process in there wherehe challenges you to do homework
for life, where you actually.
(12:26):
Capture stories in aspreadsheet.
In other words, this is justyour run of the mill everyday
stories.
It could be a story about yourfamily, it could be a story
about your childhood as theycome to memory.
I'll put a chart in the leadernotes to show you an example of
that.
But it's just a process ofcapturing stories.
One of the things you could doin your workplace is have a
(12:47):
spreadsheet for capturingstories about things that are
going well, things that maybedidn't go well.
To use those stories when you'retrying to sell a change
initiative or sell somethingthat you need to sell in your
organization or promotesomething or celebrate
something.
If you document and keep thesestories in a spreadsheet, then
you have things that'll triggeryour memories.
(13:09):
You're not starting from a blankslate.
The Art of Explanation by LeeLafe has some really good
information about how to explainthings in a way.
That are effective.
The 16 Undeniable Laws ofCommunication by John Maxwell is
a good one about how tocommunicate more effectively,
making numbers count by ChipHeath.
(13:30):
Same author for the Power ofMoments.
Both those books help youcommunicate technical data or
technical information, theMaking numbers Count book.
My son is actually using thatbook as a finance analyst for a
company that he just startedwith, and he's using that when
they try to present some oftheir financial information to
different folks in theorganization.
(13:51):
He also mentioned.
Leading Change by Kotter.
He's got a really good bookabout how you actually go
through the change process in alarge organization.
These are applicable to evensmaller organizations, but he
goes through all the differentstages and all the different
work that you need to do todrive change.
I hope highlighting some ofthese key points will help you
(14:14):
take and put into action whatwe've learned from Sean during
these two episodes.
I hope these books are helpfulto you.
They will be in the leader notesyou can download.
Also, I would encourage you togo to.
Your favorite podcast player andgive us a five star rating.
It would help us get morelistens, also make sure that you
(14:35):
subscribe and if this has beenimpactful for you, please share
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