June 23, 2023 • 43 mins
What happens when you combine the fascinating world of technology with the insights of Gen-Xer and Haneke Design owner, Jody Haneke? You get an eye-opening conversation about the rapid growth of AI and its impact on various industries, including real estate and healthcare. Join us as we discuss everything from the iPhone revolution to the potential use of AI in creating hyper-personalized experiences.
In this episode, we explore the many ways AI tools like chatGPT are being used for tasks like listing descriptions, blog posts, and SEO purposes. However, we won't shy away from discussing the dangers of AI and the need for regulation to prevent erroneous conclusions based on data. Throughout the conversation, Jody shares her journey from selling beepers to building custom software and how the iPhone changed the game for her business.
As we look into the future, we delve into AI's impact on art and education, as well as its role in problem-solving and innovation. We discuss the many ways AI is shaping our world, including the potential ethical implications and the need for humans to still be involved in decision-making. Don't miss this insightful conversation with Jody Haneke, as we explore the ever-evolving world of technology and its impact on our lives.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrew Hoek (00:01):
This is the Legacy Wealth Code podcast helping you
build long term wealth and alasting legacy to real estate
investing tax strategies andmotivational stories from some
of the most successful andinfluential people out there.
Here are your hosts real estateinvestor and entrepreneur, l
Knotbaum, and real estateinvestor and attorney, Andrew
Hoek.
Michael Notbohm (00:22):
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of
the Legacy Wealth Code podcast.
This is Michael No Knotbaum.
I'm here with my partner crime,Andrew Hoek.
Hey guys, what's going on?
And today we are honored tohave a friend of mine, Jody
Haneke, who owns Haneke Design.
one of the premier marketingand tech based companies here in
the Tampa Bay area started backin 2002.
(00:42):
Jody and Old Soul graduatedcollege in 1995, but we are
honored to have you here today.
Welcome to the podcast, OldSoul.
How about?
Jody Haneke (00:51):
just like Gen X.
Yeah, we'll go with that, i'llgo with that.
Michael Notbohm (00:54):
All right, fair , fair.
I mean.
Plus, we're going to talk allthis tech stuff today, so I mean
you can't be that old.
Jody Haneke (00:59):
No, no, i can't Definitely.
Like I said, the Gen X thing isinteresting because that
generation has seen the mostchange in technology.
I mean, i remember records.
I remember 8 tracks.
I remember cassette tapes, iremember CDs, i remember the
iPod, i remember Napster, iphone.
You know what I mean.
It's an unbelievable I thinkit's a great generation to be
(01:22):
part of, because I have seen somuch change in technology.
Michael Notbohm (01:25):
Well, think about it.
I remember my first job.
I was in high school.
I sold beepers and then Iworked for T-Mobile and I
remember we got the first colorscreen phone and then we got the
Razor, which was the flip phone, and then, of course, trying to
sell internet to people ontheir phone.
They were like why would I wantthe internet on my phone?
It's so interesting.
And now we're here.
Jody Haneke (01:46):
Yeah, well, i mean, that has a lot of parody to my
story.
As far as the company isconcerned and what I've been
doing prior to the iPhone comingout, we basically build custom
software is what we do, and whatwe started off doing was mainly
like websites and things ofthat nature.
And then, prior to the iPhonecoming out, we got hooked up
(02:08):
with a friend of mine who hasworked for a large text
messaging company and they weredoing mobile marketing on cell
phones, which were flip phones,blackberries, things of that
nature.
Once he had asked us he saidhey, these phones can access the
web now And our clients areasking for things like.
One of his clients was Target.
We did a bunch of work for themAnd they're doing these mobile
(02:29):
in-store sweepstakes, but theywant the response message to
have a store locator or view theproducts associated with this
campaign.
And he's like can you figureout how to do that?
And I was like I guess so.
And then we realized like it'snot Holy cow.
Michael Notbohm (02:44):
we have this.
imagine the opportunity.
Jody Haneke (02:46):
Yeah, It was crazy.
It was hard too, because rightnow you have a smartphone, all
the screen sizes are large andthey all support JavaScript and
all the fancy stuff.
Back then, some flip phonesdidn't even support HTML.
It was like this old Well,you'd text and you'd be like.
Michael Notbohm (03:03):
K was like four twice.
It took you like 11 minutes towrite one sentence.
So now it's like and you'redone.
Jody Haneke (03:10):
Yeah.
So we figured that out and wewere serving up these dynamic
mobile microsites for textmessaging campaigns.
And then the iPhone came outand I was like oof, okay, i've
seen this before.
Being part of the whole dot comboom and subsequent bust, i did
know that that was going to bea game changer and that's what
got us into building true customsoftware.
(03:33):
As we decided to go all in whenthe iPhone came out and have
been kind of go to for iOS,android applications and now
full stack, the whole thing.
Michael Notbohm (03:42):
Well, you think about, like I remember when the
first iPhone I had I think Imight even have had the first
one period And then, like thenext year it comes out and I was
always like why would you getbasically another phone?
I just got this one a year agobut they've created like this
model now, where every year ortwo you're always needing to get
the new phone becausetechnology has changed so much
(04:02):
that the other one Yeah, it isamazing And that kind of slowed
down a little bit more recentlywhere, like, how much more
powerful is this pocket can be?
Jody Haneke (04:11):
Super computer need to be.
But I think the advancement onthe photography side is probably
one of the biggest new featuredrivers of new phone adoption is
that just I look at mydaughter's Instagram.
I mean obviously like if Icould take a better picture I'm
going to need a new phone, right?
Yeah, so I think a lot of thatis driving it.
Michael Notbohm (04:29):
Well, that's always with you.
Yeah, You know, like if youneed to take a picture, I always
laugh when people are at theconcerts and they're like
videoing the whole concert,they're not actually watching
any of it.
I'm like when are you going towatch this again?
Like you're here now, butProbably the minute they get
home.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Exactly.
Michael Notbohm (04:43):
I don't think I've ever watched any video I've
ever taken at a concert again.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Well, we were talking about the quality.
that was it yesterday.
You were filming that video andyou're like it's not even the
Yeah, it wasn't even the backcamera.
It's not even the back cameras,it's the front camera and the
quality of that, i mean.
It looks like a professionalvideographer.
Jody Haneke (04:58):
Yeah, I remember the days when the first digital
camera came out and that waslike early dot com days And I
was partners in this companythat were growing like crazy,
And I remember somebody broughtin a digital camera and we were
looking at it and it was likethe most pixelated little
postage stamp and everyone'slike this is the future.
And like being an art schoolkid and all that and being into
(05:21):
photography and processing myown photos and printing them and
stuff.
I was like no way, this isn'tgoing to be the thing.
Now here we are with insanecapabilities as far as digital
photography is concerned.
Michael Notbohm (05:33):
And the only thing that's still weird is if
you have a friend that has anAndroid I don't feel like
they're real people And the textis green or you send them a
video and it's like the littletiny version of it.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
It's like although I had a buddy that's dunked his in
the pool like overnight and itstill worked Yeah.
Michael Notbohm (05:47):
So yeah, so pretty much, i mean it's
definitely like two gangs, yeah,like there's the Android gang
and the iPhone gang.
They'll never get along.
Jody Haneke (05:55):
They won't.
Yeah, I mean we're on one group.
We've excommunicated all theAndroid Right.
Actually we forced somebody tobuy an iPhone.
Yeah, somebody got an iPhonespecifically for our group text.
It's a phone.
Michael Notbohm (06:04):
We're like dude , you can't be on our group text
anymore if you don't get aniPhone.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Yeah, Jody, is there a part of you that misses kind
of the purist side of that, likeyou said about going back and
actually like hand developingphotos?
Jody Haneke (06:15):
I mean, i think that art is art and creativity
is creativity and there'smultiple different outlets for
that.
I think the thing for me andyou guys know this is I do crazy
stuff.
Like I own a company thatharvests commercial stone crab,
you know.
Like you know, it's so theopposite of sitting in front of
a computer.
So I think I get my.
(06:35):
I still get like all therewards of building creative
products and design, even if itis digital.
But the things I miss more arelike just working with my hands
and being outside and stuff likethat.
I think that's the stuff that Ireally kind of go back to.
Michael Notbohm (06:50):
And it's probably frowned upon to smoke a
cigar in the office.
Jody Haneke (06:52):
Yes, stone crabbing , you can smoke cigars all day,
like six a day, yeah exactly,yeah.
Michael Notbohm (06:57):
So let's shift gears a little bit.
You know, one thing we wantedto talk to you about today is,
you know, obviously you're thetech guy, we're the real estate
guys And I think that there's ahuge shift with AI for everyone.
And like, how fast it'shappening is scaring a lot of
people.
I use it So, for example, i usechat GTP for all my listing
descriptions.
I've got a blog thing I think Iwas telling you about off off
(07:21):
the off the air that writes mekeyword rich blog posts and then
post it on on my website forSEO purposes.
I mean that's insane, that it'sthe stuff it spits out and it's
like instantly.
So like what do you think?
I mean just seeing how muchit's grown in to me it's.
I'm sure you probably know howlong it's been around, but it
(07:42):
seems like maybe the last yearwhere it's really like becoming
a mainstream.
Jody Haneke (07:46):
Yeah, I mean, from what I've seen, i think a few
years ago we were seeing trendstowards chat, like just chat in
general, right, like a lot ofchat agents being integrated
with websites right, yeah,they'll answer stuff Exactly.
And we actually noticed also,like in healthcare, like we were
trying to solve a problem oncare management and we did some
(08:07):
research and we we found outthat, like the best, what like
the best outcomes come from incare management when you have a
loved one or a caregiver likeasking you how you're doing or
sending you a text, did you takeyour medication and we're
tasked to design a userinterface for care management
and we're like this is chat,right, and that's the best mode
(08:29):
in which we can help peopleinteract with.
So can our system act as thecaregiver?
right, and can the interface bemore of a chat interface?
And would that be better,especially for, you know, the
aging population, the boomersand whatnot, and they're
embraced chat fully.
So that started happening, ithink, a few years ago, where
you just started to see peoplekind of take a step back and say
, like can we create a simpleruser interface that's more chat
(08:51):
based?
And then now you have somethinglike chat GPT come along that
supercharges that with seeminglyintelligent responses.
So, and a lot of that work thatyou're doing, i think is great
because it's basicallyshort-cutting a lot of research
that you would do on your own.
The problem is I think theproblem is and we'll get over it
(09:12):
is that people need to realizelike this it's only as good as
the data it's sourcing, and alot of times that data can be
bad, it can be misinterpreted.
So you have this technologythat's basically trying to look,
feel and sound human in itsresponses And it might, and it
might seem you might read it andbe like, wow, that makes a lot
of sense, but in fact it doesn'tmake any sense, right?
Michael Notbohm (09:34):
Right, like the stats it's spitting out, like
man, this thing is smart andlike none of it's accurate.
Jody Haneke (09:38):
Yeah, I've heard of that, Exactly A lot And you
know, we know that recent storya month ago where the lawyer in
New York got in trouble becausehe asked ChatGPT to create
references to case law that hesubmitted to the court and like
two of them were completely madeup Like it.
Just you know and I thinkyou'll find you know like as an
(09:59):
example.
When I first started playingaround with it, i asked it to
write the ChatGPT to write mybio and it sounded awesome, but
it said I went to the Universityof South Florida, which I
didn't, and had a master'sdegree.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
So I wonder where it found that information.
Yeah, where's it pulling thatfrom any?
Jody Haneke (10:13):
idea.
I think again, it's trying totake existing data sources and
reference different elements ofit to come up with something
that sounds reasonable.
So I know that I've been to USFspeaking at different events.
I know there's probably pressreleases out there about that
And I think it misconstrued thatinformation with something else
(10:33):
.
Michael Notbohm (10:34):
So think about like you know, like stock
earnings come out right And youknow they'll give out like their
entire financial data, and noone I mean, i don't read it.
I'm sure there's people that do, but you could ask it like, hey
, what does this say?
And it'll like instantly gothrough that and give you the
data you want without you havingto actually go through it.
Jody Haneke (10:52):
Yeah, i think that it's funny.
I was just talking to a clientabout this earlier.
A lot of the folks that we'reworking with are in these
different industries, likehealthcare or finance or real
estate or logistics or whatever.
I think you're going to seepeople want to like narrow the
folk, like go with agents orbots that are limited in their
ability to go out and look atall information, because I think
(11:13):
a lot of the issues and theerrors are coming by mashing two
different pieces of informationtogether that are, and making
assumptions on what that means,what the meaning of that is,
versus like, hey, if you're infinance or in your real estate,
like, these are the databasesthat we want the agent to access
, not anything more, notanything less.
And the same thing likehealthcare, but you can give it
that prompt.
Right, You could say only lookin this particular data set,
(11:38):
Yeah, but I mean as far as, likecreating a product, like if we
were to go and create a productfor a client that incorporated a
chat bot style feature wherethe user could not limit the
search right.
You know what I mean.
We would want it allpreconfigured and narrowed down
to like providing this data fromthese sources, so that you
can't tell somebody that theyneed to have an operation when
(12:01):
in fact, skin disorder.
Winding up with informationthat's doesn't isn't accurate.
Michael Notbohm (12:07):
Basically what happens when you go on WebMD
you're like you're dead.
Jody Haneke (12:10):
My nose itches.
Michael Notbohm (12:11):
You probably have brain cancer or a cold, or
you just got bit by a mosquito.
It's one of the three andyou're like man, this could.
It's pretty wide range here.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Do you see that from a standpoint of like, like the
small amount of errors that itis picking up and making?
do you see that changing andimproving over time as the
technology continues to improve,or is that more something that
you just have to narrow thefunnel and the focus on?
Jody Haneke (12:35):
I think they'll only be able to improve that to
a certain point.
I think we're probably a littleways off before you can, in a
general sense, not have toreview the products that it
exports in order to make surethat things are accurate, but it
will get to the point alsowhere, like, what is accurate
(12:56):
Like I mean, that's the thing Istruggle with too is like, if
you're using, like, all the datathat's been available on the
internet since 2021 or evensooner, i can show you two
pieces of data that seem likethey're telling you what the
answer is and they completelyconflict each other.
If you look at If you'rewatching CNN and Fox News.
Michael Notbohm (13:15):
Exactly So Same data, totally different
perspective, i think.
Jody Haneke (13:19):
I mean, my prediction is that we'll see
this used, incorporated, in alot of different ways.
I think any web asset or mobileasset where search is
incorporated, you're going tosee this as an alternate to
search, so you'll be able tochat as opposed to search, and
it will just be a better way tofind an answer.
So I think that's going tohappen like across the board.
(13:40):
So like, yeah, you can searchGoogle for real estate listings,
but you go into Zillow and ithas a search feature too, right?
So different search, differentchat agents, different areas I
think you're going to see that,as far as like having just one
chat bot that knows everythingabout everything, that's going
to be.
I think that's going to beharder.
I think what we're going to seemore and I think Apple could
(14:00):
wind up doing this where Siri'salways been a big swing and a
mess, right.
I mean, the whole idea of Siriwas like this is going to be
this Jarvis-like thing whereit's going to know who I am and
it's going to be able to give methe responses I want.
I think Apple has theopportunity to create something
that you own, that's like onyour device.
It's your data, it's yourpersonalized agent, it's going
(14:20):
to start to understand.
It's going to make mistakes,but it's going to correct itself
, right.
And so it's going to ask youlike, hey, you know, or you're
going to ask it, i need to, ineed a coffee.
Find me a coffee shop near me.
Hey, there's two blocks awayThere is a Starbucks.
And I'm going to say I hateStarbucks, never do that again.
And it's going to be like okay,jody does not like Starbucks.
(14:41):
Okay, so it's going to start tointroduce other options.
But, more importantly, it'sgoing to use that inference that
like why does Jodi not likeStarbucks?
Maybe it starts asking me somequestions, right, like what is
it about Starbucks, you know,and be like well, i don't, i'm
not in alignment with their,their executive team.
You know what I mean.
I don't like the way they runthe company.
Oh well, what does that mean?
Right?
(15:01):
So now it's going to use likethe personalization that seems
like basic to create like ahyper personalized agent that's
my assistant, that knows what Ilike, that can now start to
really understand.
And this also the problem.
So that that's the plus side.
The downside is, i think thisis further.
This is what's happening insocial media, now with echo
(15:21):
chambers, i think you're goingto see the same thing happen,
right?
If you can have these bots thatstart to learn about you, that
are going to behyper-personalized which again I
think it will be And it's goingto know, like, where you, it's
going to get you data that itthinks you'll think is correct,
right?
Michael Notbohm (15:37):
So you're always seeing.
You know like you might notlike the executive team of
Starbucks, but it may not referyou to like a fishing store
because that executive teamshares similar values as
Starbucks.
Jody Haneke (15:49):
It's just going to serve you up things that are all
with, like I said, within yourecho chamber, i don't.
I don't I see it becoming verymuch the same type of problem,
just a new user interface.
And I mean Google's coming along way with their, with their
solution too.
Yeah, what's it called?
Bard Bard, bard Bard?
and they've got some veryrecent updates where I mean
everyone's saying like, oh, thisis going to be like the death
(16:11):
of Google or whatever.
But from what I've seen withwhat they're doing, they're just
incorporating a.
It's just going to be a bettersearch.
It really is.
It's going to be a chatinterface for their search
engine And they're still goingto offer up, you know, yelp
reviews or this or that.
I mean they're still going tobe able to monetize this and
then sponsored references andwhatnot.
In the same way, it's justreally a different user
interface paradigm And I thinkso.
(16:33):
I think we'll see.
I mean everybody's kind of likewaiting and seeing kind of how
things go.
But Google's definitely puttingthe the pedal down on this And
I think, i think I think Googlehas an opportunity to continue
to be, you know, the absoluteleader in search.
I think we'll see independentlike assets, like you know, yelp
or this or that, or Expedia orwhatever, still exploit this
(16:54):
within their own column.
And then I see, you know, applehaving the opportunity to
really, you know, give us whatwe all wanted when we were kids
in the 80s, which is like yourC3PO or whatever you know more
of that personalized experience.
Michael Notbohm (17:07):
Well, there's this guy.
I was at this affiliatemarketing event a couple of
weeks ago and he's got an AI dog.
Have you heard about this thing?
What is that?
It's like a robot but it's likea dog And it it basically like
follows you, hangs out at yourhouse just like a regular dog
does, but it's a robot andthey're like $130,000.
Shoo, and he's like.
He had his Instagram story upand he's bragging about it And
(17:28):
I'm like you take it to the vet,you don't have to take it out
or anything.
I mean, the nice thing is islike it's a dog but you don't
have to take it out.
You know, does it look like adog?
Yeah, i mean, i can't rememberthe name of it, but if you, i'm
sure if you Google like roboticAI dog, it'll come up.
Jody Haneke (17:43):
Well, I think I've spent more than $130,000 on
animals over the course of mylife.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Yeah, so the vet bills just keep going up and up.
So maybe that's the way of thefuture right there, i don't know
.
And they'll outlive you tooYeah.
Michael Notbohm (17:55):
Right, yeah, i guess that you know what's crazy
is.
I was there's a rapper that wasthat came out and said if
anyone comes out with any musicthat you know like is my voice
but not me doing it, i'm goingto sue them.
And then there was somethingabout Tupac having like a new
album, because they're I guessyou can play his voice in AI and
(18:15):
then it'll sound just like him.
You could write a new rap songand then it and then make that
voice wrap it.
Right, yeah.
Jody Haneke (18:21):
I think we're I mean, i legally, we're going to
catch up to all that.
I think Bruce Willis, recently,like he's he's not doing very
well.
He's got some some type of Idon't know if it's dementia or
something, but he, you know he'sstarting to have some issues
with that And I think he justsold his voice like for that
very reason, so that in order touse it it, you know, his trust
(18:43):
gets paid or something orwhatever.
But I mean, i mean that's justa matter of time.
You know, i remember in thelate 80s, early 90s, when, like
people were like sampling, likeLed Zeppelin, like on the BC
Boys license to ill album, andit was like no big deal And it
was like wait a second, like youcan't do that Right.
So I think that'll go the sameway as like the sample, you know
, as far as licensing isconcerned and whatnot.
Michael Notbohm (19:03):
Yeah Well, you talked earlier about like being
Gen X and how much stuff'schanged.
Like CDs were always a bigthing, you know you'd go get a
new CD, and now I don't evenhave a CD player at home, or
even in my car.
I know you probably do, andrew,because you've had the same car
for 35 years But 2008 didn'thave Bluetooth yet.
But now everything's on Spotifyor iHeart Radio or you know
(19:26):
Apple, you know iTunes, etcetera.
I mean, all of that stuff haschanged so dramatically And I
think that when you startlooking at, like, the pace at
which AI is being integratedinto stuff, you know we talk.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Well, look, i mean, the first time I heard about
chat CBT was when you were inNashville, right?
We were sitting at dinnertalking to that girl And she's
telling us how she has it createstories for her kids to go to
bed And that was the first timeI'd heard about it.
And then we fast forward,whatever it is five, six months,
nine, six months, but and Imean it's everywhere Like you
(19:58):
read about it everywhere, hearabout it everywhere.
I mean the implementation ofthat has been crazy as far as
how fast it's spread.
Michael Notbohm (20:05):
How do you think real estate investors can
use it Like you know, not justwriting listing descriptions,
but kind of like on a deeperlevel, like helping them find
properties?
Jody Haneke (20:15):
Yeah, i mean I haven't done much testing to see
what those results would belike, but I imagine I mean I
mean, at the end of the day, ithink the things you mentioned
are perfect, like anything.
the way that I look at it is,if you had an intern working for
you, anything that you wouldask that intern to go and
research or go comb the web andfind X, y and Z.
If the answer to that questionis like, if I had an intern, i
(20:36):
would ask them to do this, thenthat's a good use case and see
how well and and what would youdo.
You would get it back and you'dreview it, right, you know you
wouldn't feel like an internjust come in first assignment
and just publish it or submit itto the court.
Yeah, so I think it's.
I think for now and in theshort term it's going to.
it's not eliminating jobs.
I think the smart people willuse it to be more efficient And
(20:59):
I think it's going to shortcut alot of the research work that
people are doing and,potentially, some content
generation.
Now, being an artist and and youknow I struggle with the
generation, part of it, you know, and if you think about it,
it's.
I always I look at it like wementioned sampling and mashups
and all that kind of stuff.
So I've been part of thatculture my whole life.
(21:21):
So I like the idea of liketaking stuff and mashing it
together.
But you know, at at the end ofthe day that's what it's doing.
You know what I mean.
It's basically taking referencepoints to create something new,
which is cool, you know, but Idon't I'm not sure how far
that's going to get away fromlike the human, human experience
of creating art.
Michael Notbohm (21:38):
Well, what about?
you know, like Rylan startshigh school in the fall and you
know writing.
I remember writing book reportswas pretty standard.
I mean, now you don't have to dothat anymore.
And you know the argument is,colleges and stuff have come out
and said well, we know ifyou've used chat GTP, and now
there's another AI tool thatwill take the chat GTP version
and basically rewrite it so thatit can't be you know, detected
(22:02):
Right, yeah, i mean, that's likethere was always a little bit
of that though I mean the cutand paste feature even when I
was in college, like yeah, butyou could like plagiarism was a
real thing, sure, but now youcould literally take that same
article and say rewrite this.
Jody Haneke (22:14):
So I mean, look, people will take shortcuts and
they'll do the wrong thing.
I mean, i think the right thingto do would be to ask chat GTP
to write, write a report, readthat report yourself and then
rewrite it, like the same waythat you would you if you went
off and researched and readother people's articles on the
same subject.
it's still going to give yousome context and some reference
points.
(22:34):
I think chat GTP would be thesame thing.
Just use it as an opportunity,as another reference point to
then write the final product.
Michael Notbohm (22:42):
The question is will you do it?
You know, like kids that arereading a book, that they really
can't stand.
Well, it goes back to parenting.
Yeah, but they're just going tobe like I'm not reading this.
I'm just going to ask chat GTPto write me a book report, yeah,
and then I'm going to use theother AI to make sure that they
can't be detected.
Jody Haneke (22:56):
I think that I think that there's a difference
between, like, generating awritten document based on
research and solving problems.
Right, i think that's where,like, looking at this, you know
the higher level thing, like, isthis replacing humans or
whatever?
like you know, we do a lot ofwork where people come to us and
they, they express a bunch ofpain points Like, hey, we're
(23:17):
having issues, you know, with,you know, like working in
logistics, like we're, you knowwe've got truck drivers who you
know get to a mill and they theyhave to get out of their truck
and walk into a building andit's a whole big, cumbersome
process.
How can you guys taketechnology and solve that
problem?
I struggle to see like, how,like chat GTP I mean it might
(23:38):
find some similar solutions outthere case studies or whatever
but to basically come up with anew, unique, innovative solution
that hasn't been done before.
I think jury's out on thatstill.
Michael Notbohm (23:52):
Yeah Well, that's the thing You're
constantly learning, right?
So, like, as the AI continuesto evolve, i think it's just
going to get smarter.
For example, like we use avirtual assistant in the
Philippines to make a ton ofcalls And mostly you know hey,
do you want to cash off for yourhouse?
No, you know, go jump off abridge, hang up, call again.
Most people hate that job.
(24:12):
The people in the Philippineslove it, but the problem is they
can't really go off scriptbecause they're not in real
estate.
So we give them a script, askthem this.
This is the likely responses.
But if they respond outside ofthat, the call pretty much just
fails.
And I think AI you couldliterally teach it.
Here's the script.
It'll sound, you know, you canmake it sound like me.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
I can do that Well, especially on the texting
features, right?
I mean you could train it toanswer those text messages, i'm
sure.
Michael Notbohm (24:41):
Right, yeah, if the person says this, respond
with this And then and thedifference between the AI and
what's been out, because youcould always do that, you know.
Like, if you chat on a website,How can I help you?
Here's like the couple options.
But AI will learn, not justhere's the responses It can
actually learn based on.
It can be any response andit'll just consistently get
(25:04):
better and better.
Yeah.
Jody Haneke (25:06):
I mean, the old school chatbots are just
glorified like decision treesand multiple choice questions
and answers.
Right If they say this, then theanswer is yes.
Yeah, this is that's the gamechanger with this is what?
but the use cases are the same,just as you described, like
where are the use cases?
Like, that's it right, a muchbetter version of what you're
doing with this outsourcedPhilippine model, a technology
solution that incorporates likechatGPT, is going to perform way
(25:27):
better than a human being inthat scenario.
I mean, that's the perfect usecase for it.
Michael Notbohm (25:31):
Yeah, And you don't have to pay it hourly and
you don't have to do benefits.
I mean there's definitely goingto be jobs that I think it will
replace for sure.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Yeah, i mean I think, going back to kind of the real
estate stuff, i had aconversation with a guy out of
Atlanta a couple of weeks agoand they're in commercial real
estate and they're using it alot to kind of replace some of
that upfront research like youwere talking about.
So they'll go in and they'llsay give us the breakdown of the
MSA of like Houston, you knowwhat's the median household
(26:00):
income, how many people arethere?
you know all the stuff that youused to have somebody go
research and compile in a report, and now it's done like that
And so you know that kind oflike low level front person
analyst.
Maybe you're getting thatdisrupted a little bit.
Michael Notbohm (26:17):
Well, there's one that came across my
Instagram the other day I thinkit's tomeai And you could so
just like what you just said,like what's the Houston MSA, and
it'll literally make aslideshow for you with
PowerPoint slides, all designedwith images and everything in
like 30 seconds Right.
Jody Haneke (26:36):
I mean even folks that are in development like,
hey, we're in this market,here's where the property is,
here's what we're thinking wewant to build, can we build in,
how much will it cost?
And so we get to the pointwhere it's going to look at the
local, city and state codes andthink about all the research and
data that goes into like thefeasibility of like a
development project.
Michael Notbohm (26:56):
Pricing, you know, right.
And so the BARD one is the AItool that uses active internet
web right, whereas chat GTP justhas its own database and it's
not in real time updated, notyet, yeah, and BARD, i think, is
I mean it's cool, right?
Jody Haneke (27:11):
So yeah, that's a good advantage.
Michael Notbohm (27:15):
Because it's a feasibility for this property
here with pricing, blah, blahblah, And I think part of this
whole thing is knowing what toask it.
Jody Haneke (27:23):
Yeah, so there's people that are now specializing
in basically like promptmasters.
That's what they're going tomarket.
As We know how to ask it, theright questions to get the right
results, which is prettyinteresting that that's actually
a field now.
Michael Notbohm (27:39):
That's right, it does make a big difference.
Remember that.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
That's like the new, the new CO type stuff.
Michael Notbohm (27:45):
She was like when she was talking about real
estate.
She's like write me a blogarticle about the Tampa Bay real
estate market in the interestof somebody who's considering
moving here or somebody that'srelocating or somebody's moving
from the Northwest And now itwrites the article in the
interest of that person, saying,well, you're used to a pretty
hot, you know tax, heavy state,et cetera, et cetera, whereas,
(28:08):
like, if you didn't write thatit wouldn't.
You know, it's just going towrite like a pretty generic
article, so you can kind of getas detailed as you want.
Jody Haneke (28:15):
Which is also part of that human aspect we were
talking about earlier, which isyou know like what problem
you're trying to solve.
You know, at the end of the day, i mean someone's got to
generate the question and theyhave to relate that to a
business goal or objective.
You know that's.
You know when is that gone?
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Yeah, you know I'm curious, though.
So a lot of what we talkedabout is sort of the making
things more efficient and theproductivity of it, which all
sounds great.
But the article that you wrote,though something you read last
night, you touched on, i canremember the guy's name that
left Google but is kind ofspeaking out against AI to a
certain extent, like where's the, where's the concern on that
(28:53):
side, and like the nefariousstuff that you think is
realistic.
Jody Haneke (28:57):
Well, i mean, the government's getting involved,
right?
So, you know, trying to look atregulation around these things,
and I think the biggest issuesthat people are talking about is
, you know, misinformation, youknow the deep fake type stuff,
you know propaganda, i meanthere's a lot, a lot there, i
mean.
So I mean it is a powerful tool, i think, you know.
I think it is something that weneed to look at and maybe some
(29:22):
regulation is in order.
But I think, look at, you know,the same thing happened with
the internet, same thinghappened with e-commerce, like,
oh my God, you're putting yourcredit card in a website.
You know people start by fearand then we figure out how to
live with something.
You know sometimes there's badoutcomes.
I mean there's a lot aboutsocial media.
That's not great, sure, ithasn't been great for society,
but then there's been a lot ofgood.
There's a lot of peopleemployed and you know growth of
(29:46):
our country by the internet,internet technology.
So I mean, i think, at the endof the day, i think some level
of regulation, some level ofpolicying, like do's or don'ts
around its use and limitations,probably not a bad idea.
Michael Notbohm (30:04):
So do you think it's going to get much?
you know, obviously it's goingto keep evolving, but you know
the basis of it I think we'reall in agreement right now is
more just efficiency.
It's not actually replacingsomething.
Jody Haneke (30:16):
Well, that's what I'm saying.
I mean, you know, at the end ofthe day, if it's plagiarizing
for you is what it's doing?
It's going out and findingeverything that exists and
trying to put it together in anintelligent narrative language,
And you know that's helpful andthat can shortcut research.
But until it's making thedecisions, it doesn't make the
(30:40):
decisions.
Now, Like, we make thedecisions, we ask it.
It's not operating on its own.
When that happens, it's a wholedifferent story.
Why would we make that happen?
You know what I mean?
That's the other question.
Sure.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you
should Is that the basis of theTerminator.
Michael Notbohm (30:54):
Basically Yeah, pretty much Yeah, which I think
that I mean there's definitelyan element of fear, i think.
I mean even I'm slightlyconcerned.
You know, I love using it forefficiencies, but it is kind of
scary, like how much has alreadyhappened with it and then what
could possibly it evolve into?
Jody Haneke (31:11):
I mean, look, have we given it autonomy yet?
Right, i mean, you know, i meanwe ask it questions.
Does it ask us questions?
You know, i think you knowthat's a way to look at it too
is, once we get to that point,you know, and we've got, i mean
I guess we have had some ofthose scary back and forth
conversations I don't know ifyou've seen some of those like
reporters were asking itquestions about do you value
(31:31):
humans?
and no, you know, like weirdcreepy responses and stuff.
But still, i mean you know ittakes us, prompting it, it takes
us.
you know it's not proactive inwhat it does right now.
Yeah, which is again part ofthat.
I think what people are tryingto work out is like, you know,
if we give it the ability to,you know, if we flip it around,
you know then what happens.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
So one of the things I keep coming back to here is it
feels like to me there's a lotof like front end work that AI
can do right.
Like we're going to cut down onsome of the the more you know
tedious tedious tasks and cutthrough some of the time expense
, But at some point to humanelements still has to step in
(32:13):
when you're developing something.
And I'm just curious about ifthere's a look at this from like
the back end.
Do you guys take that intoconsideration as like how far
can it go before it has to get ahuman touch?
Jody Haneke (32:25):
I mean everything that we design and develop.
We look at where thoseinflection points are.
Where in this process doessomething need to be moderated
or reviewed?
That's a constant part of whatwe do when we design a solution
And in some cases we want toautomate as much as possible,
but obviously we need to verifyand eliminate errors.
(32:45):
So we're always of that moneyset and the decisions really are
a collaboration between us andthe client.
Like, hey, where do you thinkit's safe to let this go versus
where do you think you wantsomebody to put their eyes on
this and ensure that theinformation is accurate?
Yeah, and I mean for right now,i think we'll see a lot of that
.
We'll see a lot of using it,machine learning and big data in
(33:10):
order to basically take a largeamount of information, reduce
that down to something moremanageable and then have that
reviewed by a human being asmore of the standard use case,
especially in finance and thingsof that nature, insurance stuff
like that.
Michael Notbohm (33:26):
So you deal with, obviously, a variety of
different industries.
Aside from AI, is there anyother tech stuff that is kind of
emerging and cool?
Jody Haneke (33:35):
So I mean, i look at the big shifts, right, and I
think we're in the third bigshift of my lifetime probably
ours too.
We're about the same age, butobviously actually probably four
.
I think the obviously thepersonal computer is a big one,
then the internet itself, mobiletechnology, the smartphone and
(33:59):
now AI.
I think that that's kind of thenext.
I'm pretty confident.
That's the next big thing.
Now, between like mobile andnow we have like Web 3, you know
, and the whole Bitcoin fiasco,if you will, a lot of people
were saying that you know, hey,that's the next big thing and
everything's going to move tothe blockchain, blah, blah, blah
(34:20):
.
I don't think that's the case.
I think there's a lot of hypearound that, but I'm pretty
confident.
As far as AI is concerned, it'shere to stay.
Michael Notbohm (34:30):
I mean blockchain does make a lot of
sense.
I mean we talked about it intitle.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Everybody talks about it in title, and then I ask a
question and nobody can.
I don't know how that wouldwork.
I've never been able to getthat.
Jody Haneke (34:40):
Here's the thing and I'll be perfectly honest,
I've never bought anycryptocurrency in my life
because I honestly neverunderstood it.
I never understood, like, thevalue of the coins.
Somebody explained blockchainto me.
I'm like, oh, that makes sense.
Like why are we not using thatfor more things, to have these?
Michael Notbohm (34:59):
contracts.
I know the artist really movingto that.
To like this is a real originalpiece of art.
There's the blockchain thatbacks it up.
Jody Haneke (35:07):
I don't get that, but the hype almost overshadowed
any of the actual commercialapplications.
I think people were toointerested in gambling on crypto
.
Michael Notbohm (35:19):
Well, when you can make your own coin over the
weekend and now you have acryptocurrency that's crazy
Again.
Jody Haneke (35:26):
it didn't have this worldwide implication.
AI does Again, if you look at,what does that mean?
what is the internet Like?
the internet is search.
Everything about the internetis search.
It's the internet.
it's indexed and we search it,and then when we get to a site,
we search in that site.
So we're talking about atotally new way of doing all of
(35:49):
that.
That's pretty enormous.
And how that's going to shakeout, and is Google still going
to own it, that's big.
So I think we're at a reallybig inflection point right now.
I think ARVR was in there too,and Apple just came out with
their new headset.
We'll see.
I mean, yeah, that looks prettysick.
It looks very cool, but peopleare knocking it like ski goggles
(36:10):
blah, blah, blah.
The big issue there is, unlikeyour smartphone, which is in
your pockets right now, eventhough I don't see it, that can
be ubiquitous, like walkingaround with these goofy goggles
on your head, everyone doingthat.
that's not happening.
So I've said this since we'vedone a lot of ARVR projects, but
until we have glasses that justlook like glasses, it's going
(36:33):
to be tough for that to becomelike a super ubiquitous thing
and not just something nerds doin their bedrooms.
I can see that.
Michael Notbohm (36:39):
I think Snapchat has sunglasses now.
They look like normalsunglasses, but you're actually
doing Snapchat.
That's scary, i know.
Jody Haneke (36:47):
I mean commercial applications.
if you look at people that workat Boeing and they need to fix
airplane engines and they put onone of those headsets and they
literally had the instructionmanuals or reference schematics
and whatnot while they wereworking on things like okay, you
know, there's situations wherecommercialization of that
technology I think makes sense,but as far as it being just this
(37:10):
thing that everyone is doingand has, like a smartphone, not
yet.
Michael Notbohm (37:14):
Well, think about it I know we were talking
the other day about that one ofyour first projects, that really
big project, the World Trade.
Jody Haneke (37:20):
Center one right.
So we built an interactiveapplication that they rent to
visitors at the One World TradeCenter.
Michael Notbohm (37:26):
And it's an iPad, basically right now.
Jody Haneke (37:28):
The version that we launched with a few years ago
is an iPad.
Yep, and interesting storyabout that.
We wanted we explored doingthat as an AR application.
So it would use the camera onthe backside of the iPad to
basically know what you werelooking at at the window.
And we went up there to do someresearch and testing and it was
a cloudy day And you couldbarely see things and there's no
(37:51):
way that image recognition wasgoing to work based on that.
So, and we also realized thatwalking around with a tablet
like in front of your face isnot very safe when you've got
steps and you've got people infront of you.
So that's like a lot of thework that we do is like not just
like, hey, go build thesoftware, but like go see and
feel how this gets used in reallife.
So what we did was we actuallyphotographed a 360 degree
(38:15):
panoramic and put it inside ofthe iPad, and then, as you move
the iPad around, so does thepano, and we were able to offset
that, so you didn't have tohold it in front of your face.
You know what you see straightin front of you if you look down
is the same view.
And then we provided littlehotspots on there.
You could okay, i'm looking atthe Empire State Building tap it
, we fly out the window and givelike a 10, 20 second overview,
(38:40):
educational overview of 128different locations.
Michael Notbohm (38:43):
So that could be something that could shift to
the goggles.
Jody Haneke (38:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, i could for sure, but, like you
know, cost like $3,500, i thinkI mean above three grand per
that becomes pretty hard to dofrom a business model
perspective.
But it can be more of like apremium type solution or
whatever And we're actuallylooking at maybe offering that
up Well in Plasma TVs were like10 grand when they first came
out and now you can get like a65 inch for 400 bucks at Walmart
(39:09):
.
Michael Notbohm (39:10):
I mean it's crazy, like so all that stuff?
I'm sure will come down, butit's just wild to see all the
stuff that's happening.
Yeah, it is How quickly it'shappening.
Jody Haneke (39:17):
Yeah, and again, like I said, everybody.
You look at each thing and yousay, like, does this have?
like does this impact everyone?
ARVR has not impacted everyoneso far, like you're going to be.
You know, a certain type ofperson or individual who wants
to geek out on that and has themoney to pay for it.
The blockchain stuff, i mean itreally the commercialization of
that never really happenedright, so it had a certain
(39:40):
number of folks that were kindof in that space and obsessing
with it.
Where we're at now with AI andthings like chat, gpt it has, it
will have an impact for everysingle individual who interacts
with the web, whether it'sthrough a web browser or a
mobile application.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Yeah.
So what's your advice for kindof the next generation?
And I kind of lay this out inthe sense of I was at an
economic summit meeting theother day and the economist was
talking about the shift from the70s into the 80s where we kind
of left manufacturing and wewent into more of like a service
focus sector And everybody wasgoing to become accountants and
(40:19):
physicians and attorneys, etcetera.
It seems like we're coming outof that and we probably have
already come out of that.
But what's your advice to, likeyou know your own kids in
college and people going tocollege.
like what are they?
what should they be looking atfrom a standpoint of like this
these are going to be the hotjobs for the next 20 years.
Jody Haneke (40:39):
So I'll go back to what I was originally trained to
do, which is to creativelysolve problems.
Not simply do research, notsimply data mine, not simply
perform repeatable tasks, but toliterally be able to jump in,
understand a business,understand what challenges
(41:01):
they're having with top linerevenue, bottom line revenue,
what types of user supportissues they're having, and then
basically invent something thatnever existed before.
I'm still confident thatsolving problems using creative
processes and design thinking,things of that nature, that's
(41:23):
still not going to say futureproof, because who knows?
you know what I mean.
But as of right now and kind ofwhere things are going, i think
that those, the people that canfigure out how to solve
problems, how to ask chat, gpt,the right questions, right, you
know, for now, those people aregoing to be in a good spot And
we've known this for a while.
Right, we've known withoutsourcing and we've known
where we're going as a countryand as an educated society, that
(41:47):
you know the knowledge workersthat are really dealing in like
solution architecting and thingsof that nature are going to be,
you know, much more marketablethat somebody's research analyst
, right?
So that would be.
My advice is just understand,like, what path you're taking
and say, like you know, am Ipart of the solution generation
process for this, whatever it is, you know, or am I just a piece
(42:08):
of the machine that's workingon repeatable tasks?
Michael Notbohm (42:11):
Because those are likely the ones that'll be
replaced, correct, yeah?
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Good advice.
Michael Notbohm (42:16):
Well, i think I've learned a lot.
Cool.
I think Andrew is, I mean, iwould say, out of all my friends
, probably the least tech savvy,and it's well, he kept up
pretty good.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
I was going to say it's pretty cool to see This
actually makes more sense to methan like I can't stand.
He gives me a lot of time.
I hate Google Drive Like don'tsend me something.
Michael Notbohm (42:33):
He'll ask me something.
I'm like dude, so manydifferent drives.
Jody Haneke (42:35):
You know You're like I have to log it.
Can you just send me ascreenshot?
Yeah, I want to look at it onmy phone.
I don't want to click a linkand then log in.
Michael Notbohm (42:44):
But we did have a Skype call this morning and
he got on there No problem.
I mean, I was on a phone devicetoo, Yeah leaps and bounds.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
It called my cell phone and I actually got on it
through an iPad.
So yeah, i'm making big steps.
Michael Notbohm (42:55):
Well, hey, thanks for coming on today.
We certainly appreciate it.
I think all of us can take somepearls of wisdom away from this
AI chat and hopefully integrateit into our own businesses.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Yeah, it's going to be interesting to watch moving
forward, for sure.
Jody Haneke (43:07):
Yeah.
So, we'll maybe do this againin a year and see what actually
happens.
I was going to say it'd be kindof cool to see where we're at.
Michael Notbohm (43:12):
Yeah, Until next time onward.
Andrew Hoek (43:15):
Thank you for joining us for another episode
of the Legacy Wealth Codepodcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,click subscribe now and never
miss an episode Until next timeonward.
This is the Legacy Wealth Code podcast helping you
build long term wealth and alasting legacy to real estate
investing tax strategies andmotivational stories from some
of the most successful andinfluential people out there.
Here are your hosts real estateinvestor and entrepreneur, l
Knotbaum, and real estateinvestor and attorney, Andrew
Hoek.
Michael Notbohm (00:22):
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of
the Legacy Wealth Code podcast.
This is Michael No Knotbaum.
I'm here with my partner crime,Andrew Hoek.
Hey guys, what's going on?
And today we are honored tohave a friend of mine, Jody
Haneke, who owns Haneke Design.
one of the premier marketingand tech based companies here in
the Tampa Bay area started backin 2002.
(00:42):
Jody and Old Soul graduatedcollege in 1995, but we are
honored to have you here today.
Welcome to the podcast, OldSoul.
How about?
Jody Haneke (00:51):
just like Gen X.
Yeah, we'll go with that, i'llgo with that.
Michael Notbohm (00:54):
All right, fair , fair.
I mean.
Plus, we're going to talk allthis tech stuff today, so I mean
you can't be that old.
Jody Haneke (00:59):
No, no, i can't Definitely.
Like I said, the Gen X thing isinteresting because that
generation has seen the mostchange in technology.
I mean, i remember records.
I remember 8 tracks.
I remember cassette tapes, iremember CDs, i remember the
iPod, i remember Napster, iphone.
You know what I mean.
It's an unbelievable I thinkit's a great generation to be
(01:22):
part of, because I have seen somuch change in technology.
Michael Notbohm (01:25):
Well, think about it.
I remember my first job.
I was in high school.
I sold beepers and then Iworked for T-Mobile and I
remember we got the first colorscreen phone and then we got the
Razor, which was the flip phone, and then, of course, trying to
sell internet to people ontheir phone.
They were like why would I wantthe internet on my phone?
It's so interesting.
And now we're here.
Jody Haneke (01:46):
Yeah, well, i mean, that has a lot of parody to my
story.
As far as the company isconcerned and what I've been
doing prior to the iPhone comingout, we basically build custom
software is what we do, and whatwe started off doing was mainly
like websites and things ofthat nature.
And then, prior to the iPhonecoming out, we got hooked up
(02:08):
with a friend of mine who hasworked for a large text
messaging company and they weredoing mobile marketing on cell
phones, which were flip phones,blackberries, things of that
nature.
Once he had asked us he saidhey, these phones can access the
web now And our clients areasking for things like.
One of his clients was Target.
We did a bunch of work for themAnd they're doing these mobile
(02:29):
in-store sweepstakes, but theywant the response message to
have a store locator or view theproducts associated with this
campaign.
And he's like can you figureout how to do that?
And I was like I guess so.
And then we realized like it'snot Holy cow.
Michael Notbohm (02:44):
we have this.
imagine the opportunity.
Jody Haneke (02:46):
Yeah, It was crazy.
It was hard too, because rightnow you have a smartphone, all
the screen sizes are large andthey all support JavaScript and
all the fancy stuff.
Back then, some flip phonesdidn't even support HTML.
It was like this old Well,you'd text and you'd be like.
Michael Notbohm (03:03):
K was like four twice.
It took you like 11 minutes towrite one sentence.
So now it's like and you'redone.
Jody Haneke (03:10):
Yeah.
So we figured that out and wewere serving up these dynamic
mobile microsites for textmessaging campaigns.
And then the iPhone came outand I was like oof, okay, i've
seen this before.
Being part of the whole dot comboom and subsequent bust, i did
know that that was going to bea game changer and that's what
got us into building true customsoftware.
(03:33):
As we decided to go all in whenthe iPhone came out and have
been kind of go to for iOS,android applications and now
full stack, the whole thing.
Michael Notbohm (03:42):
Well, you think about, like I remember when the
first iPhone I had I think Imight even have had the first
one period And then, like thenext year it comes out and I was
always like why would you getbasically another phone?
I just got this one a year agobut they've created like this
model now, where every year ortwo you're always needing to get
the new phone becausetechnology has changed so much
(04:02):
that the other one Yeah, it isamazing And that kind of slowed
down a little bit more recentlywhere, like, how much more
powerful is this pocket can be?
Jody Haneke (04:11):
Super computer need to be.
But I think the advancement onthe photography side is probably
one of the biggest new featuredrivers of new phone adoption is
that just I look at mydaughter's Instagram.
I mean obviously like if Icould take a better picture I'm
going to need a new phone, right?
Yeah, so I think a lot of thatis driving it.
Michael Notbohm (04:29):
Well, that's always with you.
Yeah, You know, like if youneed to take a picture, I always
laugh when people are at theconcerts and they're like
videoing the whole concert,they're not actually watching
any of it.
I'm like when are you going towatch this again?
Like you're here now, butProbably the minute they get
home.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Exactly.
Michael Notbohm (04:43):
I don't think I've ever watched any video I've
ever taken at a concert again.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Well, we were talking about the quality.
that was it yesterday.
You were filming that video andyou're like it's not even the
Yeah, it wasn't even the backcamera.
It's not even the back cameras,it's the front camera and the
quality of that, i mean.
It looks like a professionalvideographer.
Jody Haneke (04:58):
Yeah, I remember the days when the first digital
camera came out and that waslike early dot com days And I
was partners in this companythat were growing like crazy,
And I remember somebody broughtin a digital camera and we were
looking at it and it was likethe most pixelated little
postage stamp and everyone'slike this is the future.
And like being an art schoolkid and all that and being into
(05:21):
photography and processing myown photos and printing them and
stuff.
I was like no way, this isn'tgoing to be the thing.
Now here we are with insanecapabilities as far as digital
photography is concerned.
Michael Notbohm (05:33):
And the only thing that's still weird is if
you have a friend that has anAndroid I don't feel like
they're real people And the textis green or you send them a
video and it's like the littletiny version of it.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
It's like although I had a buddy that's dunked his in
the pool like overnight and itstill worked Yeah.
Michael Notbohm (05:47):
So yeah, so pretty much, i mean it's
definitely like two gangs, yeah,like there's the Android gang
and the iPhone gang.
They'll never get along.
Jody Haneke (05:55):
They won't.
Yeah, I mean we're on one group.
We've excommunicated all theAndroid Right.
Actually we forced somebody tobuy an iPhone.
Yeah, somebody got an iPhonespecifically for our group text.
It's a phone.
Michael Notbohm (06:04):
We're like dude , you can't be on our group text
anymore if you don't get aniPhone.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Yeah, Jody, is there a part of you that misses kind
of the purist side of that, likeyou said about going back and
actually like hand developingphotos?
Jody Haneke (06:15):
I mean, i think that art is art and creativity
is creativity and there'smultiple different outlets for
that.
I think the thing for me andyou guys know this is I do crazy
stuff.
Like I own a company thatharvests commercial stone crab,
you know.
Like you know, it's so theopposite of sitting in front of
a computer.
So I think I get my.
(06:35):
I still get like all therewards of building creative
products and design, even if itis digital.
But the things I miss more arelike just working with my hands
and being outside and stuff likethat.
I think that's the stuff that Ireally kind of go back to.
Michael Notbohm (06:50):
And it's probably frowned upon to smoke a
cigar in the office.
Jody Haneke (06:52):
Yes, stone crabbing , you can smoke cigars all day,
like six a day, yeah exactly,yeah.
Michael Notbohm (06:57):
So let's shift gears a little bit.
You know, one thing we wantedto talk to you about today is,
you know, obviously you're thetech guy, we're the real estate
guys And I think that there's ahuge shift with AI for everyone.
And like, how fast it'shappening is scaring a lot of
people.
I use it So, for example, i usechat GTP for all my listing
descriptions.
I've got a blog thing I think Iwas telling you about off off
(07:21):
the off the air that writes mekeyword rich blog posts and then
post it on on my website forSEO purposes.
I mean that's insane, that it'sthe stuff it spits out and it's
like instantly.
So like what do you think?
I mean just seeing how muchit's grown in to me it's.
I'm sure you probably know howlong it's been around, but it
(07:42):
seems like maybe the last yearwhere it's really like becoming
a mainstream.
Jody Haneke (07:46):
Yeah, I mean, from what I've seen, i think a few
years ago we were seeing trendstowards chat, like just chat in
general, right, like a lot ofchat agents being integrated
with websites right, yeah,they'll answer stuff Exactly.
And we actually noticed also,like in healthcare, like we were
trying to solve a problem oncare management and we did some
(08:07):
research and we we found outthat, like the best, what like
the best outcomes come from incare management when you have a
loved one or a caregiver likeasking you how you're doing or
sending you a text, did you takeyour medication and we're
tasked to design a userinterface for care management
and we're like this is chat,right, and that's the best mode
(08:29):
in which we can help peopleinteract with.
So can our system act as thecaregiver?
right, and can the interface bemore of a chat interface?
And would that be better,especially for, you know, the
aging population, the boomersand whatnot, and they're
embraced chat fully.
So that started happening, ithink, a few years ago, where
you just started to see peoplekind of take a step back and say
, like can we create a simpleruser interface that's more chat
(08:51):
based?
And then now you have somethinglike chat GPT come along that
supercharges that with seeminglyintelligent responses.
So, and a lot of that work thatyou're doing, i think is great
because it's basicallyshort-cutting a lot of research
that you would do on your own.
The problem is I think theproblem is and we'll get over it
(09:12):
is that people need to realizelike this it's only as good as
the data it's sourcing, and alot of times that data can be
bad, it can be misinterpreted.
So you have this technologythat's basically trying to look,
feel and sound human in itsresponses And it might, and it
might seem you might read it andbe like, wow, that makes a lot
of sense, but in fact it doesn'tmake any sense, right?
Michael Notbohm (09:34):
Right, like the stats it's spitting out, like
man, this thing is smart andlike none of it's accurate.
Jody Haneke (09:38):
Yeah, I've heard of that, Exactly A lot And you
know, we know that recent storya month ago where the lawyer in
New York got in trouble becausehe asked ChatGPT to create
references to case law that hesubmitted to the court and like
two of them were completely madeup Like it.
Just you know and I thinkyou'll find you know like as an
(09:59):
example.
When I first started playingaround with it, i asked it to
write the ChatGPT to write mybio and it sounded awesome, but
it said I went to the Universityof South Florida, which I
didn't, and had a master'sdegree.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
So I wonder where it found that information.
Yeah, where's it pulling thatfrom any?
Jody Haneke (10:13):
idea.
I think again, it's trying totake existing data sources and
reference different elements ofit to come up with something
that sounds reasonable.
So I know that I've been to USFspeaking at different events.
I know there's probably pressreleases out there about that
And I think it misconstrued thatinformation with something else
(10:33):
.
Michael Notbohm (10:34):
So think about like you know, like stock
earnings come out right And youknow they'll give out like their
entire financial data, and noone I mean, i don't read it.
I'm sure there's people that do, but you could ask it like, hey
, what does this say?
And it'll like instantly gothrough that and give you the
data you want without you havingto actually go through it.
Jody Haneke (10:52):
Yeah, i think that it's funny.
I was just talking to a clientabout this earlier.
A lot of the folks that we'reworking with are in these
different industries, likehealthcare or finance or real
estate or logistics or whatever.
I think you're going to seepeople want to like narrow the
folk, like go with agents orbots that are limited in their
ability to go out and look atall information, because I think
(11:13):
a lot of the issues and theerrors are coming by mashing two
different pieces of informationtogether that are, and making
assumptions on what that means,what the meaning of that is,
versus like, hey, if you're infinance or in your real estate,
like, these are the databasesthat we want the agent to access
, not anything more, notanything less.
And the same thing likehealthcare, but you can give it
that prompt.
Right, You could say only lookin this particular data set,
(11:38):
Yeah, but I mean as far as, likecreating a product, like if we
were to go and create a productfor a client that incorporated a
chat bot style feature wherethe user could not limit the
search right.
You know what I mean.
We would want it allpreconfigured and narrowed down
to like providing this data fromthese sources, so that you
can't tell somebody that theyneed to have an operation when
(12:01):
in fact, skin disorder.
Winding up with informationthat's doesn't isn't accurate.
Michael Notbohm (12:07):
Basically what happens when you go on WebMD
you're like you're dead.
Jody Haneke (12:10):
My nose itches.
Michael Notbohm (12:11):
You probably have brain cancer or a cold, or
you just got bit by a mosquito.
It's one of the three andyou're like man, this could.
It's pretty wide range here.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Do you see that from a standpoint of like, like the
small amount of errors that itis picking up and making?
do you see that changing andimproving over time as the
technology continues to improve,or is that more something that
you just have to narrow thefunnel and the focus on?
Jody Haneke (12:35):
I think they'll only be able to improve that to
a certain point.
I think we're probably a littleways off before you can, in a
general sense, not have toreview the products that it
exports in order to make surethat things are accurate, but it
will get to the point alsowhere, like, what is accurate
(12:56):
Like I mean, that's the thing Istruggle with too is like, if
you're using, like, all the datathat's been available on the
internet since 2021 or evensooner, i can show you two
pieces of data that seem likethey're telling you what the
answer is and they completelyconflict each other.
If you look at If you'rewatching CNN and Fox News.
Michael Notbohm (13:15):
Exactly So Same data, totally different
perspective, i think.
Jody Haneke (13:19):
I mean, my prediction is that we'll see
this used, incorporated, in alot of different ways.
I think any web asset or mobileasset where search is
incorporated, you're going tosee this as an alternate to
search, so you'll be able tochat as opposed to search, and
it will just be a better way tofind an answer.
So I think that's going tohappen like across the board.
(13:40):
So like, yeah, you can searchGoogle for real estate listings,
but you go into Zillow and ithas a search feature too, right?
So different search, differentchat agents, different areas I
think you're going to see that,as far as like having just one
chat bot that knows everythingabout everything, that's going
to be.
I think that's going to beharder.
I think what we're going to seemore and I think Apple could
(14:00):
wind up doing this where Siri'salways been a big swing and a
mess, right.
I mean, the whole idea of Siriwas like this is going to be
this Jarvis-like thing whereit's going to know who I am and
it's going to be able to give methe responses I want.
I think Apple has theopportunity to create something
that you own, that's like onyour device.
It's your data, it's yourpersonalized agent, it's going
(14:20):
to start to understand.
It's going to make mistakes,but it's going to correct itself
, right.
And so it's going to ask youlike, hey, you know, or you're
going to ask it, i need to, ineed a coffee.
Find me a coffee shop near me.
Hey, there's two blocks awayThere is a Starbucks.
And I'm going to say I hateStarbucks, never do that again.
And it's going to be like okay,jody does not like Starbucks.
(14:41):
Okay, so it's going to start tointroduce other options.
But, more importantly, it'sgoing to use that inference that
like why does Jodi not likeStarbucks?
Maybe it starts asking me somequestions, right, like what is
it about Starbucks, you know,and be like well, i don't, i'm
not in alignment with their,their executive team.
You know what I mean.
I don't like the way they runthe company.
Oh well, what does that mean?
Right?
(15:01):
So now it's going to use likethe personalization that seems
like basic to create like ahyper personalized agent that's
my assistant, that knows what Ilike, that can now start to
really understand.
And this also the problem.
So that that's the plus side.
The downside is, i think thisis further.
This is what's happening insocial media, now with echo
(15:21):
chambers, i think you're goingto see the same thing happen,
right?
If you can have these bots thatstart to learn about you, that
are going to behyper-personalized which again I
think it will be And it's goingto know, like, where you, it's
going to get you data that itthinks you'll think is correct,
right?
Michael Notbohm (15:37):
So you're always seeing.
You know like you might notlike the executive team of
Starbucks, but it may not referyou to like a fishing store
because that executive teamshares similar values as
Starbucks.
Jody Haneke (15:49):
It's just going to serve you up things that are all
with, like I said, within yourecho chamber, i don't.
I don't I see it becoming verymuch the same type of problem,
just a new user interface.
And I mean Google's coming along way with their, with their
solution too.
Yeah, what's it called?
Bard Bard, bard Bard?
and they've got some veryrecent updates where I mean
everyone's saying like, oh, thisis going to be like the death
(16:11):
of Google or whatever.
But from what I've seen withwhat they're doing, they're just
incorporating a.
It's just going to be a bettersearch.
It really is.
It's going to be a chatinterface for their search
engine And they're still goingto offer up, you know, yelp
reviews or this or that.
I mean they're still going tobe able to monetize this and
then sponsored references andwhatnot.
In the same way, it's justreally a different user
interface paradigm And I thinkso.
(16:33):
I think we'll see.
I mean everybody's kind of likewaiting and seeing kind of how
things go.
But Google's definitely puttingthe the pedal down on this And
I think, i think I think Googlehas an opportunity to continue
to be, you know, the absoluteleader in search.
I think we'll see independentlike assets, like you know, yelp
or this or that, or Expedia orwhatever, still exploit this
(16:54):
within their own column.
And then I see, you know, applehaving the opportunity to
really, you know, give us whatwe all wanted when we were kids
in the 80s, which is like yourC3PO or whatever you know more
of that personalized experience.
Michael Notbohm (17:07):
Well, there's this guy.
I was at this affiliatemarketing event a couple of
weeks ago and he's got an AI dog.
Have you heard about this thing?
What is that?
It's like a robot but it's likea dog And it it basically like
follows you, hangs out at yourhouse just like a regular dog
does, but it's a robot andthey're like $130,000.
Shoo, and he's like.
He had his Instagram story upand he's bragging about it And
(17:28):
I'm like you take it to the vet,you don't have to take it out
or anything.
I mean, the nice thing is islike it's a dog but you don't
have to take it out.
You know, does it look like adog?
Yeah, i mean, i can't rememberthe name of it, but if you, i'm
sure if you Google like roboticAI dog, it'll come up.
Jody Haneke (17:43):
Well, I think I've spent more than $130,000 on
animals over the course of mylife.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
Yeah, so the vet bills just keep going up and up.
So maybe that's the way of thefuture right there, i don't know
.
And they'll outlive you tooYeah.
Michael Notbohm (17:55):
Right, yeah, i guess that you know what's crazy
is.
I was there's a rapper that wasthat came out and said if
anyone comes out with any musicthat you know like is my voice
but not me doing it, i'm goingto sue them.
And then there was somethingabout Tupac having like a new
album, because they're I guessyou can play his voice in AI and
(18:15):
then it'll sound just like him.
You could write a new rap songand then it and then make that
voice wrap it.
Right, yeah.
Jody Haneke (18:21):
I think we're I mean, i legally, we're going to
catch up to all that.
I think Bruce Willis, recently,like he's he's not doing very
well.
He's got some some type of Idon't know if it's dementia or
something, but he, you know he'sstarting to have some issues
with that And I think he justsold his voice like for that
very reason, so that in order touse it it, you know, his trust
(18:43):
gets paid or something orwhatever.
But I mean, i mean that's justa matter of time.
You know, i remember in thelate 80s, early 90s, when, like
people were like sampling, likeLed Zeppelin, like on the BC
Boys license to ill album, andit was like no big deal And it
was like wait a second, like youcan't do that Right.
So I think that'll go the sameway as like the sample, you know
, as far as licensing isconcerned and whatnot.
Michael Notbohm (19:03):
Yeah Well, you talked earlier about like being
Gen X and how much stuff'schanged.
Like CDs were always a bigthing, you know you'd go get a
new CD, and now I don't evenhave a CD player at home, or
even in my car.
I know you probably do, andrew,because you've had the same car
for 35 years But 2008 didn'thave Bluetooth yet.
But now everything's on Spotifyor iHeart Radio or you know
(19:26):
Apple, you know iTunes, etcetera.
I mean, all of that stuff haschanged so dramatically And I
think that when you startlooking at, like, the pace at
which AI is being integratedinto stuff, you know we talk.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Well, look, i mean, the first time I heard about
chat CBT was when you were inNashville, right?
We were sitting at dinnertalking to that girl And she's
telling us how she has it createstories for her kids to go to
bed And that was the first timeI'd heard about it.
And then we fast forward,whatever it is five, six months,
nine, six months, but and Imean it's everywhere Like you
(19:58):
read about it everywhere, hearabout it everywhere.
I mean the implementation ofthat has been crazy as far as
how fast it's spread.
Michael Notbohm (20:05):
How do you think real estate investors can
use it Like you know, not justwriting listing descriptions,
but kind of like on a deeperlevel, like helping them find
properties?
Jody Haneke (20:15):
Yeah, i mean I haven't done much testing to see
what those results would belike, but I imagine I mean I
mean, at the end of the day, ithink the things you mentioned
are perfect, like anything.
the way that I look at it is,if you had an intern working for
you, anything that you wouldask that intern to go and
research or go comb the web andfind X, y and Z.
If the answer to that questionis like, if I had an intern, i
(20:36):
would ask them to do this, thenthat's a good use case and see
how well and and what would youdo.
You would get it back and you'dreview it, right, you know you
wouldn't feel like an internjust come in first assignment
and just publish it or submit itto the court.
Yeah, so I think it's.
I think for now and in theshort term it's going to.
it's not eliminating jobs.
I think the smart people willuse it to be more efficient And
(20:59):
I think it's going to shortcut alot of the research work that
people are doing and,potentially, some content
generation.
Now, being an artist and and youknow I struggle with the
generation, part of it, you know, and if you think about it,
it's.
I always I look at it like wementioned sampling and mashups
and all that kind of stuff.
So I've been part of thatculture my whole life.
(21:21):
So I like the idea of liketaking stuff and mashing it
together.
But you know, at at the end ofthe day that's what it's doing.
You know what I mean.
It's basically taking referencepoints to create something new,
which is cool, you know, but Idon't I'm not sure how far
that's going to get away fromlike the human, human experience
of creating art.
Michael Notbohm (21:38):
Well, what about?
you know, like Rylan startshigh school in the fall and you
know writing.
I remember writing book reportswas pretty standard.
I mean, now you don't have to dothat anymore.
And you know the argument is,colleges and stuff have come out
and said well, we know ifyou've used chat GTP, and now
there's another AI tool thatwill take the chat GTP version
and basically rewrite it so thatit can't be you know, detected
(22:02):
Right, yeah, i mean, that's likethere was always a little bit
of that though I mean the cutand paste feature even when I
was in college, like yeah, butyou could like plagiarism was a
real thing, sure, but now youcould literally take that same
article and say rewrite this.
Jody Haneke (22:14):
So I mean, look, people will take shortcuts and
they'll do the wrong thing.
I mean, i think the right thingto do would be to ask chat GTP
to write, write a report, readthat report yourself and then
rewrite it, like the same waythat you would you if you went
off and researched and readother people's articles on the
same subject.
it's still going to give yousome context and some reference
points.
(22:34):
I think chat GTP would be thesame thing.
Just use it as an opportunity,as another reference point to
then write the final product.
Michael Notbohm (22:42):
The question is will you do it?
You know, like kids that arereading a book, that they really
can't stand.
Well, it goes back to parenting.
Yeah, but they're just going tobe like I'm not reading this.
I'm just going to ask chat GTPto write me a book report, yeah,
and then I'm going to use theother AI to make sure that they
can't be detected.
Jody Haneke (22:56):
I think that I think that there's a difference
between, like, generating awritten document based on
research and solving problems.
Right, i think that's where,like, looking at this, you know
the higher level thing, like, isthis replacing humans or
whatever?
like you know, we do a lot ofwork where people come to us and
they, they express a bunch ofpain points Like, hey, we're
(23:17):
having issues, you know, with,you know, like working in
logistics, like we're, you knowwe've got truck drivers who you
know get to a mill and they theyhave to get out of their truck
and walk into a building andit's a whole big, cumbersome
process.
How can you guys taketechnology and solve that
problem?
I struggle to see like, how,like chat GTP I mean it might
(23:38):
find some similar solutions outthere case studies or whatever
but to basically come up with anew, unique, innovative solution
that hasn't been done before.
I think jury's out on thatstill.
Michael Notbohm (23:52):
Yeah Well, that's the thing You're
constantly learning, right?
So, like, as the AI continuesto evolve, i think it's just
going to get smarter.
For example, like we use avirtual assistant in the
Philippines to make a ton ofcalls And mostly you know hey,
do you want to cash off for yourhouse?
No, you know, go jump off abridge, hang up, call again.
Most people hate that job.
(24:12):
The people in the Philippineslove it, but the problem is they
can't really go off scriptbecause they're not in real
estate.
So we give them a script, askthem this.
This is the likely responses.
But if they respond outside ofthat, the call pretty much just
fails.
And I think AI you couldliterally teach it.
Here's the script.
It'll sound, you know, you canmake it sound like me.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
I can do that Well, especially on the texting
features, right?
I mean you could train it toanswer those text messages, i'm
sure.
Michael Notbohm (24:41):
Right, yeah, if the person says this, respond
with this And then and thedifference between the AI and
what's been out, because youcould always do that, you know.
Like, if you chat on a website,How can I help you?
Here's like the couple options.
But AI will learn, not justhere's the responses It can
actually learn based on.
It can be any response andit'll just consistently get
(25:04):
better and better.
Yeah.
Jody Haneke (25:06):
I mean, the old school chatbots are just
glorified like decision treesand multiple choice questions
and answers.
Right If they say this, then theanswer is yes.
Yeah, this is that's the gamechanger with this is what?
but the use cases are the same,just as you described, like
where are the use cases?
Like, that's it right, a muchbetter version of what you're
doing with this outsourcedPhilippine model, a technology
solution that incorporates likechatGPT, is going to perform way
(25:27):
better than a human being inthat scenario.
I mean, that's the perfect usecase for it.
Michael Notbohm (25:31):
Yeah, And you don't have to pay it hourly and
you don't have to do benefits.
I mean there's definitely goingto be jobs that I think it will
replace for sure.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Yeah, i mean I think, going back to kind of the real
estate stuff, i had aconversation with a guy out of
Atlanta a couple of weeks agoand they're in commercial real
estate and they're using it alot to kind of replace some of
that upfront research like youwere talking about.
So they'll go in and they'llsay give us the breakdown of the
MSA of like Houston, you knowwhat's the median household
(26:00):
income, how many people arethere?
you know all the stuff that youused to have somebody go
research and compile in a report, and now it's done like that
And so you know that kind oflike low level front person
analyst.
Maybe you're getting thatdisrupted a little bit.
Michael Notbohm (26:17):
Well, there's one that came across my
Instagram the other day I thinkit's tomeai And you could so
just like what you just said,like what's the Houston MSA, and
it'll literally make aslideshow for you with
PowerPoint slides, all designedwith images and everything in
like 30 seconds Right.
Jody Haneke (26:36):
I mean even folks that are in development like,
hey, we're in this market,here's where the property is,
here's what we're thinking wewant to build, can we build in,
how much will it cost?
And so we get to the pointwhere it's going to look at the
local, city and state codes andthink about all the research and
data that goes into like thefeasibility of like a
development project.
Michael Notbohm (26:56):
Pricing, you know, right.
And so the BARD one is the AItool that uses active internet
web right, whereas chat GTP justhas its own database and it's
not in real time updated, notyet, yeah, and BARD, i think, is
I mean it's cool, right?
Jody Haneke (27:11):
So yeah, that's a good advantage.
Michael Notbohm (27:15):
Because it's a feasibility for this property
here with pricing, blah, blahblah, And I think part of this
whole thing is knowing what toask it.
Jody Haneke (27:23):
Yeah, so there's people that are now specializing
in basically like promptmasters.
That's what they're going tomarket.
As We know how to ask it, theright questions to get the right
results, which is prettyinteresting that that's actually
a field now.
Michael Notbohm (27:39):
That's right, it does make a big difference.
Remember that.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
That's like the new, the new CO type stuff.
Michael Notbohm (27:45):
She was like when she was talking about real
estate.
She's like write me a blogarticle about the Tampa Bay real
estate market in the interestof somebody who's considering
moving here or somebody that'srelocating or somebody's moving
from the Northwest And now itwrites the article in the
interest of that person, saying,well, you're used to a pretty
hot, you know tax, heavy state,et cetera, et cetera, whereas,
(28:08):
like, if you didn't write thatit wouldn't.
You know, it's just going towrite like a pretty generic
article, so you can kind of getas detailed as you want.
Jody Haneke (28:15):
Which is also part of that human aspect we were
talking about earlier, which isyou know like what problem
you're trying to solve.
You know, at the end of the day, i mean someone's got to
generate the question and theyhave to relate that to a
business goal or objective.
You know that's.
You know when is that gone?
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Yeah, you know I'm curious, though.
So a lot of what we talkedabout is sort of the making
things more efficient and theproductivity of it, which all
sounds great.
But the article that you wrote,though something you read last
night, you touched on, i canremember the guy's name that
left Google but is kind ofspeaking out against AI to a
certain extent, like where's the, where's the concern on that
(28:53):
side, and like the nefariousstuff that you think is
realistic.
Jody Haneke (28:57):
Well, i mean, the government's getting involved,
right?
So, you know, trying to look atregulation around these things,
and I think the biggest issuesthat people are talking about is
, you know, misinformation, youknow the deep fake type stuff,
you know propaganda, i meanthere's a lot, a lot there, i
mean.
So I mean it is a powerful tool, i think, you know.
I think it is something that weneed to look at and maybe some
(29:22):
regulation is in order.
But I think, look at, you know,the same thing happened with
the internet, same thinghappened with e-commerce, like,
oh my God, you're putting yourcredit card in a website.
You know people start by fearand then we figure out how to
live with something.
You know sometimes there's badoutcomes.
I mean there's a lot aboutsocial media.
That's not great, sure, ithasn't been great for society,
but then there's been a lot ofgood.
There's a lot of peopleemployed and you know growth of
(29:46):
our country by the internet,internet technology.
So I mean, i think, at the endof the day, i think some level
of regulation, some level ofpolicying, like do's or don'ts
around its use and limitations,probably not a bad idea.
Michael Notbohm (30:04):
So do you think it's going to get much?
you know, obviously it's goingto keep evolving, but you know
the basis of it I think we'reall in agreement right now is
more just efficiency.
It's not actually replacingsomething.
Jody Haneke (30:16):
Well, that's what I'm saying.
I mean, you know, at the end ofthe day, if it's plagiarizing
for you is what it's doing?
It's going out and findingeverything that exists and
trying to put it together in anintelligent narrative language,
And you know that's helpful andthat can shortcut research.
But until it's making thedecisions, it doesn't make the
(30:40):
decisions.
Now, Like, we make thedecisions, we ask it.
It's not operating on its own.
When that happens, it's a wholedifferent story.
Why would we make that happen?
You know what I mean?
That's the other question.
Sure.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you
should Is that the basis of theTerminator.
Michael Notbohm (30:54):
Basically Yeah, pretty much Yeah, which I think
that I mean there's definitelyan element of fear, i think.
I mean even I'm slightlyconcerned.
You know, I love using it forefficiencies, but it is kind of
scary, like how much has alreadyhappened with it and then what
could possibly it evolve into?
Jody Haneke (31:11):
I mean, look, have we given it autonomy yet?
Right, i mean, you know, i meanwe ask it questions.
Does it ask us questions?
You know, i think you knowthat's a way to look at it too
is, once we get to that point,you know, and we've got, i mean
I guess we have had some ofthose scary back and forth
conversations I don't know ifyou've seen some of those like
reporters were asking itquestions about do you value
(31:31):
humans?
and no, you know, like weirdcreepy responses and stuff.
But still, i mean you know ittakes us, prompting it, it takes
us.
you know it's not proactive inwhat it does right now.
Yeah, which is again part ofthat.
I think what people are tryingto work out is like, you know,
if we give it the ability to,you know, if we flip it around,
you know then what happens.
Speaker 4 (31:52):
So one of the things I keep coming back to here is it
feels like to me there's a lotof like front end work that AI
can do right.
Like we're going to cut down onsome of the the more you know
tedious tedious tasks and cutthrough some of the time expense
, But at some point to humanelements still has to step in
(32:13):
when you're developing something.
And I'm just curious about ifthere's a look at this from like
the back end.
Do you guys take that intoconsideration as like how far
can it go before it has to get ahuman touch?
Jody Haneke (32:25):
I mean everything that we design and develop.
We look at where thoseinflection points are.
Where in this process doessomething need to be moderated
or reviewed?
That's a constant part of whatwe do when we design a solution
And in some cases we want toautomate as much as possible,
but obviously we need to verifyand eliminate errors.
(32:45):
So we're always of that moneyset and the decisions really are
a collaboration between us andthe client.
Like, hey, where do you thinkit's safe to let this go versus
where do you think you wantsomebody to put their eyes on
this and ensure that theinformation is accurate?
Yeah, and I mean for right now,i think we'll see a lot of that
.
We'll see a lot of using it,machine learning and big data in
(33:10):
order to basically take a largeamount of information, reduce
that down to something moremanageable and then have that
reviewed by a human being asmore of the standard use case,
especially in finance and thingsof that nature, insurance stuff
like that.
Michael Notbohm (33:26):
So you deal with, obviously, a variety of
different industries.
Aside from AI, is there anyother tech stuff that is kind of
emerging and cool?
Jody Haneke (33:35):
So I mean, i look at the big shifts, right, and I
think we're in the third bigshift of my lifetime probably
ours too.
We're about the same age, butobviously actually probably four
.
I think the obviously thepersonal computer is a big one,
then the internet itself, mobiletechnology, the smartphone and
(33:59):
now AI.
I think that that's kind of thenext.
I'm pretty confident.
That's the next big thing.
Now, between like mobile andnow we have like Web 3, you know
, and the whole Bitcoin fiasco,if you will, a lot of people
were saying that you know, hey,that's the next big thing and
everything's going to move tothe blockchain, blah, blah, blah
(34:20):
.
I don't think that's the case.
I think there's a lot of hypearound that, but I'm pretty
confident.
As far as AI is concerned, it'shere to stay.
Michael Notbohm (34:30):
I mean blockchain does make a lot of
sense.
I mean we talked about it intitle.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Everybody talks about it in title, and then I ask a
question and nobody can.
I don't know how that wouldwork.
I've never been able to getthat.
Jody Haneke (34:40):
Here's the thing and I'll be perfectly honest,
I've never bought anycryptocurrency in my life
because I honestly neverunderstood it.
I never understood, like, thevalue of the coins.
Somebody explained blockchainto me.
I'm like, oh, that makes sense.
Like why are we not using thatfor more things, to have these?
Michael Notbohm (34:59):
contracts.
I know the artist really movingto that.
To like this is a real originalpiece of art.
There's the blockchain thatbacks it up.
Jody Haneke (35:07):
I don't get that, but the hype almost overshadowed
any of the actual commercialapplications.
I think people were toointerested in gambling on crypto
.
Michael Notbohm (35:19):
Well, when you can make your own coin over the
weekend and now you have acryptocurrency that's crazy
Again.
Jody Haneke (35:26):
it didn't have this worldwide implication.
AI does Again, if you look at,what does that mean?
what is the internet Like?
the internet is search.
Everything about the internetis search.
It's the internet.
it's indexed and we search it,and then when we get to a site,
we search in that site.
So we're talking about atotally new way of doing all of
(35:49):
that.
That's pretty enormous.
And how that's going to shakeout, and is Google still going
to own it, that's big.
So I think we're at a reallybig inflection point right now.
I think ARVR was in there too,and Apple just came out with
their new headset.
We'll see.
I mean, yeah, that looks prettysick.
It looks very cool, but peopleare knocking it like ski goggles
(36:10):
blah, blah, blah.
The big issue there is, unlikeyour smartphone, which is in
your pockets right now, eventhough I don't see it, that can
be ubiquitous, like walkingaround with these goofy goggles
on your head, everyone doingthat.
that's not happening.
So I've said this since we'vedone a lot of ARVR projects, but
until we have glasses that justlook like glasses, it's going
(36:33):
to be tough for that to becomelike a super ubiquitous thing
and not just something nerds doin their bedrooms.
I can see that.
Michael Notbohm (36:39):
I think Snapchat has sunglasses now.
They look like normalsunglasses, but you're actually
doing Snapchat.
That's scary, i know.
Jody Haneke (36:47):
I mean commercial applications.
if you look at people that workat Boeing and they need to fix
airplane engines and they put onone of those headsets and they
literally had the instructionmanuals or reference schematics
and whatnot while they wereworking on things like okay, you
know, there's situations wherecommercialization of that
technology I think makes sense,but as far as it being just this
(37:10):
thing that everyone is doingand has, like a smartphone, not
yet.
Michael Notbohm (37:14):
Well, think about it I know we were talking
the other day about that one ofyour first projects, that really
big project, the World Trade.
Jody Haneke (37:20):
Center one right.
So we built an interactiveapplication that they rent to
visitors at the One World TradeCenter.
Michael Notbohm (37:26):
And it's an iPad, basically right now.
Jody Haneke (37:28):
The version that we launched with a few years ago
is an iPad.
Yep, and interesting storyabout that.
We wanted we explored doingthat as an AR application.
So it would use the camera onthe backside of the iPad to
basically know what you werelooking at at the window.
And we went up there to do someresearch and testing and it was
a cloudy day And you couldbarely see things and there's no
(37:51):
way that image recognition wasgoing to work based on that.
So, and we also realized thatwalking around with a tablet
like in front of your face isnot very safe when you've got
steps and you've got people infront of you.
So that's like a lot of thework that we do is like not just
like, hey, go build thesoftware, but like go see and
feel how this gets used in reallife.
So what we did was we actuallyphotographed a 360 degree
(38:15):
panoramic and put it inside ofthe iPad, and then, as you move
the iPad around, so does thepano, and we were able to offset
that, so you didn't have tohold it in front of your face.
You know what you see straightin front of you if you look down
is the same view.
And then we provided littlehotspots on there.
You could okay, i'm looking atthe Empire State Building tap it
, we fly out the window and givelike a 10, 20 second overview,
(38:40):
educational overview of 128different locations.
Michael Notbohm (38:43):
So that could be something that could shift to
the goggles.
Jody Haneke (38:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, i could for sure, but, like you
know, cost like $3,500, i thinkI mean above three grand per
that becomes pretty hard to dofrom a business model
perspective.
But it can be more of like apremium type solution or
whatever And we're actuallylooking at maybe offering that
up Well in Plasma TVs were like10 grand when they first came
out and now you can get like a65 inch for 400 bucks at Walmart
(39:09):
.
Michael Notbohm (39:10):
I mean it's crazy, like so all that stuff?
I'm sure will come down, butit's just wild to see all the
stuff that's happening.
Yeah, it is How quickly it'shappening.
Jody Haneke (39:17):
Yeah, and again, like I said, everybody.
You look at each thing and yousay, like, does this have?
like does this impact everyone?
ARVR has not impacted everyoneso far, like you're going to be.
You know, a certain type ofperson or individual who wants
to geek out on that and has themoney to pay for it.
The blockchain stuff, i mean itreally the commercialization of
that never really happenedright, so it had a certain
(39:40):
number of folks that were kindof in that space and obsessing
with it.
Where we're at now with AI andthings like chat, gpt it has, it
will have an impact for everysingle individual who interacts
with the web, whether it'sthrough a web browser or a
mobile application.
Speaker 4 (39:56):
Yeah.
So what's your advice for kindof the next generation?
And I kind of lay this out inthe sense of I was at an
economic summit meeting theother day and the economist was
talking about the shift from the70s into the 80s where we kind
of left manufacturing and wewent into more of like a service
focus sector And everybody wasgoing to become accountants and
(40:19):
physicians and attorneys, etcetera.
It seems like we're coming outof that and we probably have
already come out of that.
But what's your advice to, likeyou know your own kids in
college and people going tocollege.
like what are they?
what should they be looking atfrom a standpoint of like this
these are going to be the hotjobs for the next 20 years.
Jody Haneke (40:39):
So I'll go back to what I was originally trained to
do, which is to creativelysolve problems.
Not simply do research, notsimply data mine, not simply
perform repeatable tasks, but toliterally be able to jump in,
understand a business,understand what challenges
(41:01):
they're having with top linerevenue, bottom line revenue,
what types of user supportissues they're having, and then
basically invent something thatnever existed before.
I'm still confident thatsolving problems using creative
processes and design thinking,things of that nature, that's
(41:23):
still not going to say futureproof, because who knows?
you know what I mean.
But as of right now and kind ofwhere things are going, i think
that those, the people that canfigure out how to solve
problems, how to ask chat, gpt,the right questions, right, you
know, for now, those people aregoing to be in a good spot And
we've known this for a while.
Right, we've known withoutsourcing and we've known
where we're going as a countryand as an educated society, that
(41:47):
you know the knowledge workersthat are really dealing in like
solution architecting and thingsof that nature are going to be,
you know, much more marketablethat somebody's research analyst
, right?
So that would be.
My advice is just understand,like, what path you're taking
and say, like you know, am Ipart of the solution generation
process for this, whatever it is, you know, or am I just a piece
(42:08):
of the machine that's workingon repeatable tasks?
Michael Notbohm (42:11):
Because those are likely the ones that'll be
replaced, correct, yeah?
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Good advice.
Michael Notbohm (42:16):
Well, i think I've learned a lot.
Cool.
I think Andrew is, I mean, iwould say, out of all my friends
, probably the least tech savvy,and it's well, he kept up
pretty good.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
I was going to say it's pretty cool to see This
actually makes more sense to methan like I can't stand.
He gives me a lot of time.
I hate Google Drive Like don'tsend me something.
Michael Notbohm (42:33):
He'll ask me something.
I'm like dude, so manydifferent drives.
Jody Haneke (42:35):
You know You're like I have to log it.
Can you just send me ascreenshot?
Yeah, I want to look at it onmy phone.
I don't want to click a linkand then log in.
Michael Notbohm (42:44):
But we did have a Skype call this morning and
he got on there No problem.
I mean, I was on a phone devicetoo, Yeah leaps and bounds.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
It called my cell phone and I actually got on it
through an iPad.
So yeah, i'm making big steps.
Michael Notbohm (42:55):
Well, hey, thanks for coming on today.
We certainly appreciate it.
I think all of us can take somepearls of wisdom away from this
AI chat and hopefully integrateit into our own businesses.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Yeah, it's going to be interesting to watch moving
forward, for sure.
Jody Haneke (43:07):
Yeah.
So, we'll maybe do this againin a year and see what actually
happens.
I was going to say it'd be kindof cool to see where we're at.
Michael Notbohm (43:12):
Yeah, Until next time onward.
Andrew Hoek (43:15):
Thank you for joining us for another episode
of the Legacy Wealth Codepodcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,click subscribe now and never
miss an episode Until next timeonward.
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