February 16, 2025 • 42 mins
15. The Nampa Nightmare: A Tale of Divorce, Desperation, and a Disastrous Getaway
Welcome back to the Lethal Library with Stephanie and Danny as they dive into a harrowing crime tale from Nampa, Idaho. It's the tragic story of Colleen Hubbard, who faced fatal circumstances at the hands of her estranged husband, Roger Hubbard. Amidst contentious custody battles, Colleen's encounter with Roger escalated into violence, leading to a horrific police chase through the NNU campus. Listen as they recount the events, the senseless and brutal attack, and the eventual arrest and sentencing of Roger Hubbard. Expect dark humor, shocking details, and a local twist that will leave you shaken.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stephanie (00:32):
All right.
Welcome back again to the lethallibrary.
I am Stephanie and I'm Danny andToday we're gonna be going
another crime tale from Idaho.
Very local especially for thosein Nampa, you're going to see
some familiar street names.
That's really all that I'veheard about it.
nightkeeper, you know, I'm, I'malmost always in the dark
(00:54):
completely.
I might know like the area thatit happened or just some very
basic details of the case, butjust so I can have a fresh
perspective on it, that's kindof how we do it.
So I will let Danny take it awaywith what are we going to be
hearing today?
Dani (01:12):
Well, everybody needs to just calm down.
Divorce can be nasty, especiallywhen it involves children, but
keep your shit together, please.
I'm going to tell you about aguy that lost it on his soon to
be ex wife, and his actions willhave a lifelong effect on so
(01:33):
many people, including his poorchildren.
I see that a lot.
On September 27th, 2006.
Colleen Hubbard left work topick up her children at her
estranged husband's home onHolly Street in Nampa, Idaho.
and for you locals, like Hollyand Hawaii.
(01:57):
In Nampa.
In Nampa, so y'all know wherethat's at.
she worked late, and, and so itwas a little bit later While on
her way home, she called herboyfriend, Michael Ramey.
The call was placed at 1035 andit woke him up.
Colleen was calling to let himknow that she had a flat tire
and she was getting it fixed andshould be home in about 10 or 15
(02:19):
minutes.
Forty two year old Colleen hadrecently filed for divorce from
her husband Roger Hubbard inJuly.
The pair had married in 2001.
She had filed because herhusband's employment was
inconsistent.
That's the polite way of saying,um, uh, uh, uh, go get a
Stephanie (02:38):
job! I didn't sign up for an additional child.
I signed up for a partner, butsure, let's go
Dani (02:45):
inconsistent.
just the day before the couplehad been ordered into mediation
for custody and visitationissues.
for their two daughters who aretwo and four.
At 1057, Colleen called 911 fromthe trunk of her car.
That escalated.
(03:06):
She told dispatchers that shehad been stabbed and was
bleeding.
She described her vehicle andits location.
When the police were approachingher location, they saw a car
speed off.
Officer Tyler Gray found a poolof blood by the driveway along
with a pair of sunglasses.
(03:28):
He went into the home to checkfor the possible victim when he
encountered Colleen andHubbard's four year old daughter
crying in the hallway.
It's so sad.
Other officers were on thechase.
They chased Colleen's ChevyMetro through the neighborhood.
(03:48):
The vehicle veered through theNNU campus and neighborhood
lawns at speeds up to 50 milesper hour.
Stephanie (03:57):
Now let me just comment on that, because for
those not familiar with thearea, around the NNU campus is
many, very curvy, S curve roads,like, not dangerous, you can do
a safe 35, I mean, but if you'regoing 45 or over, that's a, not
an easy feat.
(04:18):
We just
Dani (04:19):
had that recently.
Yes, tell them about it.
We just had a car, was a couplemonths ago.
In the middle of, it was aSunday morning, like at 7.
30 in the morning, I don't knowwhat they were doing, speeding,
but they were speeding throughthose curves, and the car
literally fucking launched overa house and landed on another
house.
Stephanie (04:38):
Yeah, there was a bur they completely missed, did not
even, it seems like, attempt todo the curve.
And we're going all close to 100and hit a berm in front of
someone's house, launched overthat house, clipped their
chimney, and lodged themselvesinto the roof of the next house.
There was three people in thecar.
One of them died.
It's wild that this happened ona Sunday.
(05:02):
No, we're not talking snow,slippery roads, none of that.
I have no idea why someone wouldthink they could be going that
speed on these curves.
So 50, sure, maybe you could doit, but that's very dangerous
territory.
And
Dani (05:17):
can we just talk about the vehicle?
Stephanie (05:20):
Right, we've got what was a Chevy?
A
Dani (05:22):
Chevy Metro.
Oh, no.
Stephanie (05:24):
They're not known for their great suspension.
Did you not pick that up?
I was like, stuff.
Dani (05:28):
It's, it's a Chevy Metro.
Bro.
No.
I don't know what we werethinking here.
The tires are probably like 12inches big.
What's
Stephanie (05:38):
happening?
Dani (05:41):
During the chase, officers could see what appeared to be
blood draining from the back ofthe vehicle.
What?
What in the
Stephanie (05:52):
hell?
Dani (05:53):
Two of the tires were flattened during the escapade.
No shit, they're 12 inch tires.
And she is in the back of hercar.
Sparks are flying.
The noise.
Stephanie (06:09):
She's bleeding.
Enough for them to see the bloodfalling.
Dani (06:14):
Yeah.
This
Stephanie (06:19):
Very shitty.
Very shitty stuff happeninghere.
Dani (06:22):
The driver had to flee the disabled car.
And after a short foot race,they were able to arrest a blood
covered Roger Hubbard.
36.
it was a short chase through analley near NNU.
So, you know those streets overthere, Steph.
They're real alleys.
We're not talking, you know,subdivisions.
(06:44):
They're real alleys.
Oftentimes with huge potholesand people's trash cans.
Funny you should mention that.
Stephanie (06:51):
Is that what flattened the tires?
Dani (06:53):
Hubbard had tripped over a tree trunk and fell forward onto
his face.
Oopsie.
Don't feel bad.
Uh, me either.
He was struggling with thepolice while saying, just kill
me.
One officer finally tasered himin the leg to subdue him.
Like, just
Stephanie (07:11):
quit.
What are you doing?
And the whole just kill mething, it's like, then why were
you even running and where didyou think you were going to go?
You thought you were going todrive down to Mexico in the
Chevy Metro with two flat tires?
Let's, I know that it's heated,but once again, sometimes you
cannot believe just how stupidand so little forethought these
(07:34):
people have.
Like, what?
Dani (07:39):
When police opened the trunk of the car, they found
Colleen bleeding from a, fromstab wounds to her shoulders and
back.
When asked, who stabbed you?
By a police officer, sheresponded, Roger.
According to court documents,she stopped breathing after
stating who her attacker was.
(08:01):
That is so tragic, and Can youimagine being, like, you are on
the phone with the poli You'vebeen injured, you're on the
phone with police Like alifeline And the fucker will not
stop You can, she heard all ofthat
Stephanie (08:25):
And driving with two flat tires, that's very loud And
if you're getting down to therims, sparks are flying, like
You're being jostled around in adark ass trunk and
Dani (08:41):
not being able to, you're dying.
Stephanie (08:43):
Yeah.
Dani (08:44):
Hubbard was arrested and charged with second degree
murder, second degreekidnapping, and eluding the
police.
He was charged this way becausethe crime was deliberate and
with malice, but notpremeditated.
So I was like, why didn't he getfirst degree?
Stephanie (09:05):
Well, and sometimes I feel like first degree is harder
to prove because if someone'swilling to do this, you can't
tell me they haven't thoughtabout it before, which if they
didn't write it down and plan itout and whatever, I feel like
some of these people they'vethought they have thought about
it, but they can make it looklike it's a heat of the moment
(09:27):
type thing.
Dani (09:29):
I, I'm I'm gonna let you listen to this story.
This is why people I'm surethere's more.
People just need to calm down.
While awaiting his trial,Harbord wrote a letter to a
woman in Maryland, by the way, agirlfriend
Stephanie (09:45):
in Maryland?
Prison pen pal things are sostrange to me.
I'll never understand it.
That
Dani (09:52):
was read and copied by the deputies, which is standard
procedure.
Like, oh, you're gonna send aletter?
Oh, we're gonna read that shit.
Every single word.
I think he did this maybe onpurpose, but in this letter he
states quote I am NOT amurderer, but I did cause her to
die.
I can't deny that I only hopethat you're not repulsed by what
(10:16):
I have done Oh, he's trying tojust salvage a little bit of
something of a relationship.
Trying to rewrite
Stephanie (10:23):
what happened to make himself
Dani (10:25):
feel better Is what it sounds like to me.
He said that his daughters weresupposed to spend the night with
him on September 27th ButColleen showed up and demanded
the girls come with her.
He claims that Colleen hit himwith a tire iron.
He threw it back at her and thenwent inside to get a knife.
(10:48):
He put, he put the knife in hisback pocket after he saw Colleen
on her cell phone.
When he saw her next, she wassitting on the open trunk of the
car and he told her to go homeand they would talk this out
later.
The pair then just, they got ina fight.
They were threatening each otherwith custody of the kids, like,
(11:10):
he, he, quote.
It gets messy.
It, it's very messy.
And those poor babies are insidethat house.
And having to listen to it,yeah.
Uh, quote, I just lashed out andtold her I was gonna make sure
she never got custody and thather parents and boyfriend were
going to find out the cruelthings that she had been doing.
(11:30):
I told her that, that she wouldbe alone and then she snapped
and flew at me.
This is when she swung the tireiron.
At him quote.
Next thing I know, I had a knifein my hand.
When I got hit in the jaw.
I stabbed her shoulder.
I wasn't trying to kill her.
Just stopped her.
(11:51):
Just stop her.
I stabbed her again.
And that's when she stopped.
She fell down, and I thinkthat's what she realized when
she realized that's what I'ddone.
She looked so scared.
Of course, I regretted what Ihad done.
What I had felt forced to do.
Stephanie (12:14):
Okay, I'm gonna keep listening.
Dani (12:17):
He said in the letter he helped, Colleen get off the
ground and back to the car whereshe laid down in the trunk.
Hubbard wrote, he closed the lidand took off because he thought
she was dead and was filled withanger, fear, remorse, and
confusion.
Stephanie (12:33):
Okay, this is where I gotta say, there was plausible
deniability up to this pointwhere it's like she walked over
to the trunk and laid down and.
I closed it figuring she wasdead.
I don't believe that for asecond.
The rest I could say, maybe.
(12:55):
You know, his side of the story.
Or, or he could have viewed itas such.
I don't think that it was quitelike that.
You know, there's his side, herside.
And what's really, what reallyhappened.
But, you're telling me that sherealized she was stabbed and
said The best thing I can do atthis time is cuddle up in the
trunk of my car.
My life's in danger.
Let me get into this trunk.
(13:16):
Come on.
Sorry to interrupt, but what,
Dani (13:19):
what the fuck?
But when Hubbard was arrested,he had cuts and bruising on his
forehead, neck, and cheek, alongwith two abrasions on his back,
to his back.
You ran from the police, sir.
Stephanie (13:36):
And he, they had to tase him to subdue him.
Yeah.
And there could have been afight.
I don't know how much it wouldhave been that severe of a fight
on her part, but it does happen.
Could have happened.
Dani (13:48):
But you also ran from the police.
Yeah,
Stephanie (13:52):
with someone with blood dripping out of the trunk.
Dani (13:56):
You have a dying woman in the back of your car and you
ran.
And you Oh, wait, no! Didn'tthat happen when you fell over
the tree trunk?
Stephanie (14:04):
Well,
Dani (14:04):
and
Stephanie (14:06):
I feel like if she was calling the cops, that she
may have screamed as well.
I don't I think it's possible.
I mean,
Dani (14:17):
it might be, I don't know how, I heard, I read that the 9
1 1 tape that was played incourt was very garbled and hard
because she had been stabbed inthe lung.
So I don't know, because she wasstabbed, you know, in her, but
(14:39):
it, it punctured her lung.
And so, I don't know if shewould actually have The ability
to scream.
The ability to scream and belike, What the fuck are you
doing?
Like, I don't, I, I, From justmy research, I feel like it was
a very Desperate, quiet 9 1 1call, As quiet as it can be with
(15:03):
all the chaos, Because sheliterally
Stephanie (15:08):
Yeah, that's a, that's not a good injury for
sure.
But for someone to go, I knowI'm being a broken record on
this, but for someone to go andbe like, I'm gonna go cuddle up
in the trunk, and then yourresponse is, well, guess she's
dead.
What?
Dani (15:28):
His trial begins in October of 2007.
The prosecutor, Ted Fleming, inopening statement said, a knife
and time killed Colleen.
Quote, he was killing Colleenwith every second of that drive.
(15:49):
I just had to put this intoperspective at this point.
I was gonna, I didn't write thisin here.
Hawaii and 12th Avenue is wherethe hospital's at.
Stephanie (16:01):
Literally right there.
Dani (16:02):
It's a city block away.
Like, what is that?
She could have maybe
Stephanie (16:07):
gotten there herself.
Dani (16:09):
Walking.
It's very, very, very close.
Stephanie (16:14):
But she chose to go and take a nap in a trunk.
Even, even if you think thatsomeone's going to take you to
the hospital, why would youchoose the trunk?
Maybe the back seat, sure, soyou can lay down something.
Sure, sure.
Maybe in the driver's seat.
Maybe you think you're going todrive yourself.
But you say, no, I'm probablybleeding to death.
(16:35):
The next best course of actionis for me to get into the
hospital.
Dani (16:41):
The hospital sign is literally on that corner.
Stephanie (16:45):
You can, yeah, you can see it.
It's literally
Dani (16:47):
on that corner.
So, defense attorney TomSullivan is claiming self
defense.
Quote, he's not guilty becausethe only reason he was stabbing
her was because she wasattacking him with that tire
iron.
Stephanie (17:05):
Which is, you know, me and my brain.
This is what I was thinkingthat.
When he was continuing to drivearound and around that he was
hoping that she would die.
And that he could be like, well,what do you do?
Which, so many people do notunderstand self defense
Dani (17:25):
laws and how they
Stephanie (17:26):
work.
Dani (17:28):
And that's a, and that could possibly, I mean, be a
reason because he might not haveknown that she was on 9 1.
That she was actually on thephone.
That she still had her
Stephanie (17:37):
phone and was, Yeah.
I mean,
Dani (17:40):
obviously the cops are behind him, but did he actually
understand that she was on thephone?
Yeah.
Stephanie (17:45):
Cause no one has ring cameras at this time.
There's no surveillance.
The kids are in the house,they're young.
It's your word against hers.
And who's to say that someonedidn't attack you and you had to
make a tough decision, but itjust doesn't add up so far for
me.
Dani (18:04):
Sullivan also stated that he went inside to get a knife
because he thought Colleen wascalling her boyfriend and
Thought he might need it if hecame over.
I just look like there's noeloquence in these opening
statements Just so you know,this is not me.
I mean, I don't have eloquenceWhen writing anyway, but but
(18:27):
sometimes
Stephanie (18:27):
these lawyers, they're just like painting a
picture like a novel, right?
It's not
Dani (18:32):
happening here He went in Got a gun, or got a knife, just
in case.
he said Colleen was bigger thanHubbard and very strong.
I mean, she was older.
Stephanie (18:46):
What are we talking here?
I need to see pictures.
I just kind of like,
Dani (18:51):
prove her it didn't happen.
The jury also heard that Hubbardwas trying to drive to a
payphone because he didn't havea phone in his home.
Stephanie (19:01):
Which is the logical, what, what you would do.
If someone's bleeding to deathin your car and the hospital's
within walking distance, go tothe Circle K three miles that
way.
Okay,
Dani (19:12):
let me ask you this.
Where do you think the closestpayphone would be from that
location?
The Maverick.
Wouldn't it be faster just to goto the fucking ER?
Stephanie (19:22):
Exactly.
No, it is.
It is closer.
The Maverick by the high schoolor the Holly Albertson.
Yeah.
Holly Shopping Center.
Yeah.
Maybe.
The Stinker over
Dani (19:33):
there.
Is it still Stinker or Sinclair?
Whatever.
I think so.
Yeah.
That
Stephanie (19:37):
would be
Dani (19:37):
closer.
Right.
Right.
But out of all those locations,guess what was closer?
The
Stephanie (19:42):
hospital.
Dani (19:43):
The emergency room.
Stephanie (19:44):
And you don't need a phone to call 9 1 1 for medical
help if you are at the placethey'd be taking you anyway.
This is why this shit justdoesn't add up.
Dani (19:58):
I was just so pissed off about that.
And you're,
Stephanie (20:03):
additionally, There's police behind you.
Stop the car.
And you're saying, I can't stop.
I've got to get to a payphone.
Police have radios.
They work with EMTs.
If anything, if you saw a copand someone is in a medical
emergency, You stop.
Flag them down and say, help,look what's, please help.
(20:26):
Can I finish doing this?
Dani (20:27):
And then
Stephanie (20:28):
we can talk.
Yeah, you don't say, I can'tstop right now.
I need to find
Dani (20:32):
a payphone a mile down the road.
Uh, and, and then you, what'sthe wrong fucking way, dude?
That's not the way.
Yeah, you're, not the way.
Goodness gracious.
A detective testified that whenhe told Hubbard his wife was
dead, he acted shocked andupset.
(20:54):
A paramedic testified that bythe time Colleen arrived at the
hospital, she was bleeding pinkbecause she had lost so much
blood.
All that was in her was IVfluid.
God,
Stephanie (21:08):
I didn't know that was a thing that happened if you
lost that much blood.
That's,
Dani (21:12):
I, I haven't, I haven't heard of that either.
Ugh.
Colleen had called, just to putthe timeline into perspective
here, Colleen had called 9 1 1at 10 55, and the paramedics
arrived at 11 14.
(21:32):
So by the time the cops showedup, let's give it, he was
driving around in that car.
For like 15 minutes.
And all through that area.
Yeah.
That
Stephanie (21:42):
curvy.
He wasn't stopping.
Dani (21:44):
I mean, I would think that the police just based on the
location, they probably hadofficers there in five to seven
minutes.
Stephanie (21:51):
Yeah.
Dani (21:52):
With that kind of a phone call.
Because we just, we aren't thatdramatic.
Well, and that's
Stephanie (22:00):
so sad because she just called her boyfriend at
1035.
Right.
Not even an hour later.
She's dead.
Dani (22:08):
Okay, the case has handed over to the jury to To
deliberate.
By day three, the jury tellsJudge Rene Hoff that they're at
an impasse on the second degreemurder charge.
They told Judge Hoff that theyhave reached verdicts on the
second degree kidnapping andeluding an officer.
(22:31):
Judge Hoff earlier had told thejury that in order to convict
Hubbard of second degree murder,they needed to agree that he
intended to cause Colleen greatbodily harm or injury.
And I don't understand thispart.
I'm just gonna be honest, but IOr, they could consider a lesser
charge of voluntarymanslaughter.
(22:54):
How does that work, Steph?
In like a criminal case, Ithought, these are the charges,
A or B.
Stephanie (23:03):
I didn't know you could just throw in like an
alternative.
That's why I'm so confused.
If anybody has any input onthat.
Because otherwise, why wouldn't,why, so like let's say there's
one victim, why wouldn't peoplebe like.
The prosecutor I'm gonna do thefirst and second degree murder
and voluntary manslaughter Andall the charges.
I'm charging you with all ofthem and the jury just picks
what they think it is You don'tsee that do you?
(23:27):
I don't think I have.
Dani (23:28):
I have seen ones where I where they have done Like second
degree murder or manslaughter,but they're up for both, but I
didn't see that he was chargedwith that.
So maybe I, I missed somethingin my research, which is
(23:49):
possible, but I kind of feellike she's like, meh.
This is the gist that I've gotfor my research.
It's like, well, if you guyscan't decide on that, you can at
least get a manslaughter.
Stephanie (24:01):
Can we at
Dani (24:01):
least get a manslaughter charge?
Which I'm like, yo judge.
So anyways.
Because
Stephanie (24:08):
if you're not charged with that, how does the defense
fight and say, well, accordingto manslaughter, you have to do
this, this, this.
I don't know how that works.
I don't either.
Maybe it's a
Dani (24:17):
thing.
Stephanie (24:18):
I don't know.
Dani (24:19):
Email us.
After the jury told Judge Hoffof the impasse, she asked for
them to give it another try.
Defense attorney Sullivan saidthe court was pushing the jury
(24:41):
too far and that the judgeshould claim a mistrial.
Stephanie (24:45):
Eh, kinda, yeah.
I don't, it seems like in a lotof cases, when they come back
with their first, we can't, Ifeel like I've always heard the
judge says, please try again.
Maybe try to talk over whateveris the impasse points.
(25:05):
I don't, and I think a judgeshould say, say that because you
can have someone that says, I'mnot changing my vote.
I'm not changing my vote.
And then if you really just findout what, what's the root cause
of you not changing your vote.
Dani (25:20):
So let's take into account,
Stephanie (25:25):
they did go three days.
Thank you.
That's right.
It wasn't three hours.
It wasn't three hours.
Dani (25:31):
So, anyway, just food for thought.
Hough said, I do think I amtreading on very delicate
ground.
However, I have tried to be verycareful and In the inquiry, I've
made to this jury, they mightlike some guidance, I could give
(25:52):
them that guidance.
An hour later, the jury handeddown guilty convictions on
second degree murder, seconddegree kidnapping, and eluding
the police.
Stephanie (26:02):
Which, you know, I wonder if there's any case,
files that have gone into, causePeople cite certain trials and
stuff.
So I wonder if there has beenTrials where the judge even if
it's gone four days and they saywe're at an impasse What if the
judge doesn't say I'd like youto try again and please ask me
(26:26):
if there's policy or legalPlease ask me if there's things
that you guys would like to,because sometimes they go out to
the crime scene.
Sometimes they're like, changeto a tree.
Yeah, I wanna see something.
So I wonder if there's thingswhere it has come back on appeal
(26:46):
because a judge doesn't say, canyou give it one more try?
Dani (26:51):
And in all fairness, the Menendez jury was out for like
30 days or something ridiculous.
So that's a bit of a stretch tome.
Anyway.
Yeah.
I, I, I totally see your pointand, and I'm not disagreeing
with that.
It was just like the defenseattorney is like, Hey, mistrial,
(27:17):
yo,
Stephanie (27:17):
let's go anyway.
It's crazy, but it only tookthem an hour after that.
It's an hour.
That's a, it is touchy on bothsides.
She must have gave
Dani (27:29):
some great fucking guidance.
Stephanie (27:33):
She has a very stern glare.
She said, um, I, I really likeit to not be a mistrial, side
eye, bombastic side eye.
If you need any advice, feelfree to reach out.
Per my last email, please reacha verdict.
Dani (27:57):
Oh shit.
The sentencing hearing is inJanuary of 2008.
This is, this would piss me off.
It did piss me off.
Family members showed up totestify, but instead were turned
away when the hearing wasrescheduled for March.
Mmm.
(28:19):
The delay was due to Hubbard notcompleting his portion of the
pre sentence investigationpaperwork.
Okay.
So, despite the side eye, shewas very patient with this
fucker.
Judge Hoff reluctantly grantedthe continuance.
(28:41):
She told Hubbard, quote, youbetter have that paperwork
filled out.
She's not fucking around.
I'd just thrown the book at himat that point.
I would have been so pissed.
Like, what have you been doingin jail?
You have, you got a bookschedule.
You have nothing.
Stephanie (29:02):
Couldn't pencil in your paperwork anywhere.
Finish
Dani (29:05):
the paperwork so we can get this over with.
Stephanie (29:08):
Too many activities going on in the prison.
I'll play you guys some music.
You're dancing to too muchmusic.
We cannot love
Dani (29:16):
music.
Prosecutor Bozzoli pointed outthe emotional, mental, and
financial toll that this hastaken on the victim's family.
Fair.
Yeah.
I mean that's such a build up toa day when you're gonna go And,
you're going to a sentencinghearing to testify about what
(29:38):
your loss is, what this has doneto you.
You've made time for it.
The build up and just theemotional.
I'd be a, I'd be a wreck.
Stephanie (29:49):
Mm hmm.
Ugh! For the day of?
Dani (29:52):
Yeah!
Stephanie (29:53):
Yeah, that's a little, that's some fuckery, for
sure.
Dani (29:56):
The court did allow, Colleen's brother to testify.
He came from North Carolina andwill be unable to return to
March.
He testified, this monster of aman right here took her from us.
She'll never see her babiesagain, which is so sad because I
think, I mean that is sad,right?
(30:17):
But the finality of saying yourstatement, saying all the things
that you want to say to this manthat murdered somebody you love,
Stephanie (30:27):
and then you
Dani (30:28):
want to see him Then you want to see him convicted and
walk away with some satisfactionfrom that, like, okay, I mean,
it's not going to be completelysatisfied, there's nothing that
can replace a life, but you'relooking for, and I know people
will disagree with the wordclosure, but it's like, okay,
I've said my piece and he'sgoing to prison for X amount of
(30:50):
time and I know now I'm, putthis out of my brain.
Done.
Stephanie (30:56):
No, it is some closure and it's hopefully to
Demonstrate the finality of itDemonstrate the impact the
person had upon your life, youknow, it's it's your one chance
to impact Anything, you know ina meaningful way There's other
(31:18):
things that you can do but it'sso hard to be a participant once
something like this goes totrial Like this is your chance.
Dani (31:27):
Well, and we've had family members even kept from trial.
We've went through that way It'sjust there's been family members
that have done their owninvestigations Badass.
In March the sentencing finallytakes place Hubbard testified in
court that it was the biggestmistake he'd ever made made and
(31:48):
a guilt He will have to bear forthe rest of his life.
Quote.
I'm sorry, and I regret herdeath Judge Hoff said she took
into account the letters Hubbardwrote while awaiting his trial.
Hubbard had wrote, quote, evenin death she is still screwing
me over and I don't think Icould hate anyone more.
(32:11):
Unquote.
A little contradictory.
Well, they're reading that shitand they're listening to you.
I mean, this isn't 1977.
Yeah.
They are listening to your phonecalls and your letters and
You're an idiot if you thinkdifferent.
And
Stephanie (32:31):
they're gonna take anything, even if something is
said that isn't thatinflammatory, but could be
construed to where you're like,I hate it in here, and there's
ways you could say things whereit's like, is he trying to,
like, blame, or this, or, like,that's a very Direct, like, this
bitch is still fucking up mylife and she's dead.
(32:53):
Pretty much.
Oh, you fucked up there.
Dani (32:57):
Shouldn't have done that.
Hoff said, quote, Your attitudewhile incarcerated continues to
disturb me.
You brutally and violently tookher life, and instead of
accepting responsibility, youhave chosen to blame others.
Fair.
I think so too.
(33:17):
Judge Hoff sentenced Hubbard to45 years in prison with the
eligibility of parole after 25.
Hoff said she gave Hubbard theopportunity for parole because
he lacked any early warningflags like a history of drug or
alcohol abuse or a criminalrecord.
Hoff told Hubbard, quote, I havenot fixed your sentence.
(33:38):
There is a light at the end ofthe tunnel.
You can choose to deal with thatin whatever fashion.
I suggest you use itconstructively.
Stephanie (33:48):
I think that she summarized this very well of
like Basically, even if let'ssay that it was an accident.
We all know it wasn't firstdegree murder But she's like for
you to act like this You'remaking it like you're still a
threat to which you got tofigure your stuff out Stop
(34:14):
acting like it's someone else'sfault that they died because you
stabbed them And maybe we'lltalk in 25 years.
So, do you want to, do you wantto take that road and we can
talk in 25 years and you willhave a chance?
Or are we going to talk in 25years and you're going to say
some stupid shit like this?
(34:34):
Yes.
See you then.
Sayonara, sucka.
Hmm.
What
Dani (34:40):
do you think?
Well Hubbard was, I think shewas like you're a d bag why
would you ever write that downon paper?
You're being a dipshit! You'regiving us so many reasons.
Because he really didn't haveany, uh, and even, Colleen's
(35:02):
divorce attorney said there wasno history of domestic violence
or any issues Drug use on paper.
Yeah, right, but well, but therewas no they have not there was I
really do think that he was justlazy and she's like I am she
worked a hard job Out at the,Idaho State Hospital.
(35:23):
I mean, you, it takes a lot outof you to go and just.
And you have two children.
Yeah, two and four.
So she's out there, and she wasgetting off at like 1030 at
night.
So she was going out there, sheworked.
Afternoon, evening shift, right?
She's out there showing theseguys how to do daily tasks and
you have to be very patient andUnderstanding to do that kind of
(35:49):
work.
You do and so and then she'scoming home to this lazy
motherfucker Who won't get ajob?
Won't get a job and he mighthave been one of those guys like
I'm not watching my kids Untilthey're separated and then
that's all he had was to claspon to this.
You know, those guys, you know,they're out there and women to
(36:12):
not judging, but like, they'relike, all of a sudden, like, Oh,
my kids, my kids.
Well, they care so much.
They weren't there when youneeded them.
So, I mean, this is allspeculations, but I could see
it.
but Hubbard was stoic during thesentencing until Judge Hoff
ordered a no contact order.
(36:32):
Issued between Hubbard and histwo children until they were 18.
Hubbard then hung his head.
Got you good, fucker.
That one hurt.
That got him.
Roger Hubbard is currently 54years old, and in Saguaro
(36:56):
Correctional Center in Arizona.
He will be eligible for parolein 2031.
Fun fact.
Stephanie (37:05):
Tell me this fun fact.
Dani (37:08):
He's in the same prison and same unit as Alfredo
Martinez.
Unit L for loser Actually, Ilooked that up today cuz I was
like, oh my gosh that prisonsounds very familiar And I
looked it up and it's like Ican't believe you found that
it's a private prison so thestate of Idaho is shipping these
(37:32):
guys out to Arizona and I thinklike the L unit is like the
Idaho unit.
We got the Taterland folks overhere.
Maybe I should look up and seewho's all in the L unit.
What are y'all doing?
I see they're playing.
Are you playing cards together?
Sharing ramen?
Stephanie (37:49):
Well, and Alfredo seemed like a pretty blamey,
like, that was a, such a cruelcrime, that he was like, yeah, I
murdered my girlfriend, and Iput her in the closet, and I
went to the strip club with myfriends.
And he was,
Dani (38:04):
well, and, and Martinez was just a bad dude, he'd beat
up a lot, I mean, he had donethings before and been in and
out of prison.
I do think that Hubbard herejust,
Stephanie (38:15):
lost his shit,
Dani (38:16):
literally lost his shit, and it doesn't make it okay, and
I'm not justifying.
Anything, but I do think he, Ido think he thought that her
boyfriend was coming over.
I really do think that hethought that and he put that, he
should, this would have went acompletely different way if he
never put that knife in hispocket.
I don't believe he wanted, hisintentions were not.
(38:41):
to murder her that evening.
Absolutely not, you know.
He went and got it and concealedit.
And then, just don't, don't do,don't play with weapons, It just
makes
Stephanie (38:55):
the rest of your story not, believable as much,
where it's like, if you reallythought that your life was in
danger, you go in, you hide aknife.
And then you come, like, why didyou come back out?
Dani (39:09):
Right.
Stephanie (39:09):
Lock the doors, or stay there with the knife, and
if someone enters, then youmight actually have a good self
defense claim.
Right.
You might.
But you fucked that all up,buddy.
Dani (39:20):
His best bet that night would have been to lock the door
and let her call the police, andthen they would have said, This
is a domestic issue, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.
You need to separate.
Yep, and she would have wenthome, and he would have stayed
home, and everybody would havebeen okay.
They would have, becauseeventually, not doing the loop
de loops around NNU, becauseeventually after A divorce.
(39:44):
Hopefully, for most people, itcalms down.
You quit being so pissed off,and you realize that you should
just parent your childrentogether.
And you let some shit go, andrealize that that's not a big fo
That shouldn't be your mainfocus of your life.
To fuck your partner.
Your ex partner.
and also, fuck your kids out ofhaving a relationship with the
(40:04):
other parent.
Stephanie (40:05):
Well, it's
Dani (40:05):
just
Stephanie (40:05):
that they were left there
Dani (40:06):
alone.
I know, that's so sad.
Stephanie (40:09):
Ridiculous.
Dani (40:10):
This just could have went a lot of other ways.
But I don't think it waspremeditated at all.
Stephanie (40:16):
So, I don't think they, that they, even if it was
that they couldn't have provedit, proven it, they couldn't
have proved that stuff.
Ha ha ha! Alrighty guys, well,that's what we have.
A shorty one today, but to thepoint.
No, it wasn't a death penaltycase, so.
No, it wasn't, but it was.
Dani (40:35):
It's uh, I just, um, I chose this case because they're
like, these people were justliterally having custody issues.
And then there's the policeturned into a police chase.
And also it's very.
(40:55):
local, and so it kind of caughtmy eye.
and that the hospital isliterally like 60 seconds, not
kidding, 60 seconds away.
You could see the hospital sign.
It, well the hospital sign's onthe corner.
I bet you, if you just walked upa smidge and looked at the right
angle.
You could probably see at leastthe medical center that's there.
(41:17):
So just yeah, so it caught itcaught my eye.
Anyway Uh, we're listening.
Yeah, like subscribe Go checkout our tiki talks and our
Facebook.
Yeah, we're doing we're tryingto be tick talkers now badly,
but It's kind of funny.
It's kind of funny.
So and apologies for thelanguage Risa
Stephanie (41:41):
Risa, we are working on, I feel like we did a, I said
gosh darn at least two timestoday.
Not even on purpose, but I waslike, Risa's gonna be proud of
me.
Oh my god.
Maybe one of these days we'llhave one with no swear words
that will never happen.
And we'll send it to her.
But thank you for putting us onthe right path, girly.
We love you.
(42:02):
Tan four, rubber ducky.
Fuck yeah.
All right.
Welcome back again to the lethallibrary.
I am Stephanie and I'm Danny andToday we're gonna be going
another crime tale from Idaho.
Very local especially for thosein Nampa, you're going to see
some familiar street names.
That's really all that I'veheard about it.
nightkeeper, you know, I'm, I'malmost always in the dark
(00:54):
completely.
I might know like the area thatit happened or just some very
basic details of the case, butjust so I can have a fresh
perspective on it, that's kindof how we do it.
So I will let Danny take it awaywith what are we going to be
hearing today?
Dani (01:12):
Well, everybody needs to just calm down.
Divorce can be nasty, especiallywhen it involves children, but
keep your shit together, please.
I'm going to tell you about aguy that lost it on his soon to
be ex wife, and his actions willhave a lifelong effect on so
(01:33):
many people, including his poorchildren.
I see that a lot.
On September 27th, 2006.
Colleen Hubbard left work topick up her children at her
estranged husband's home onHolly Street in Nampa, Idaho.
and for you locals, like Hollyand Hawaii.
(01:57):
In Nampa.
In Nampa, so y'all know wherethat's at.
she worked late, and, and so itwas a little bit later While on
her way home, she called herboyfriend, Michael Ramey.
The call was placed at 1035 andit woke him up.
Colleen was calling to let himknow that she had a flat tire
and she was getting it fixed andshould be home in about 10 or 15
(02:19):
minutes.
Forty two year old Colleen hadrecently filed for divorce from
her husband Roger Hubbard inJuly.
The pair had married in 2001.
She had filed because herhusband's employment was
inconsistent.
That's the polite way of saying,um, uh, uh, uh, go get a
Stephanie (02:38):
job! I didn't sign up for an additional child.
I signed up for a partner, butsure, let's go
Dani (02:45):
inconsistent.
just the day before the couplehad been ordered into mediation
for custody and visitationissues.
for their two daughters who aretwo and four.
At 1057, Colleen called 911 fromthe trunk of her car.
That escalated.
(03:06):
She told dispatchers that shehad been stabbed and was
bleeding.
She described her vehicle andits location.
When the police were approachingher location, they saw a car
speed off.
Officer Tyler Gray found a poolof blood by the driveway along
with a pair of sunglasses.
(03:28):
He went into the home to checkfor the possible victim when he
encountered Colleen andHubbard's four year old daughter
crying in the hallway.
It's so sad.
Other officers were on thechase.
They chased Colleen's ChevyMetro through the neighborhood.
(03:48):
The vehicle veered through theNNU campus and neighborhood
lawns at speeds up to 50 milesper hour.
Stephanie (03:57):
Now let me just comment on that, because for
those not familiar with thearea, around the NNU campus is
many, very curvy, S curve roads,like, not dangerous, you can do
a safe 35, I mean, but if you'regoing 45 or over, that's a, not
an easy feat.
(04:18):
We just
Dani (04:19):
had that recently.
Yes, tell them about it.
We just had a car, was a couplemonths ago.
In the middle of, it was aSunday morning, like at 7.
30 in the morning, I don't knowwhat they were doing, speeding,
but they were speeding throughthose curves, and the car
literally fucking launched overa house and landed on another
house.
Stephanie (04:38):
Yeah, there was a bur they completely missed, did not
even, it seems like, attempt todo the curve.
And we're going all close to 100and hit a berm in front of
someone's house, launched overthat house, clipped their
chimney, and lodged themselvesinto the roof of the next house.
There was three people in thecar.
One of them died.
It's wild that this happened ona Sunday.
(05:02):
No, we're not talking snow,slippery roads, none of that.
I have no idea why someone wouldthink they could be going that
speed on these curves.
So 50, sure, maybe you could doit, but that's very dangerous
territory.
And
Dani (05:17):
can we just talk about the vehicle?
Stephanie (05:20):
Right, we've got what was a Chevy?
A
Dani (05:22):
Chevy Metro.
Oh, no.
Stephanie (05:24):
They're not known for their great suspension.
Did you not pick that up?
I was like, stuff.
Dani (05:28):
It's, it's a Chevy Metro.
Bro.
No.
I don't know what we werethinking here.
The tires are probably like 12inches big.
What's
Stephanie (05:38):
happening?
Dani (05:41):
During the chase, officers could see what appeared to be
blood draining from the back ofthe vehicle.
What?
What in the
Stephanie (05:52):
hell?
Dani (05:53):
Two of the tires were flattened during the escapade.
No shit, they're 12 inch tires.
And she is in the back of hercar.
Sparks are flying.
The noise.
Stephanie (06:09):
She's bleeding.
Enough for them to see the bloodfalling.
Dani (06:14):
Yeah.
This
Stephanie (06:19):
Very shitty.
Very shitty stuff happeninghere.
Dani (06:22):
The driver had to flee the disabled car.
And after a short foot race,they were able to arrest a blood
covered Roger Hubbard.
36.
it was a short chase through analley near NNU.
So, you know those streets overthere, Steph.
They're real alleys.
We're not talking, you know,subdivisions.
(06:44):
They're real alleys.
Oftentimes with huge potholesand people's trash cans.
Funny you should mention that.
Stephanie (06:51):
Is that what flattened the tires?
Dani (06:53):
Hubbard had tripped over a tree trunk and fell forward onto
his face.
Oopsie.
Don't feel bad.
Uh, me either.
He was struggling with thepolice while saying, just kill
me.
One officer finally tasered himin the leg to subdue him.
Like, just
Stephanie (07:11):
quit.
What are you doing?
And the whole just kill mething, it's like, then why were
you even running and where didyou think you were going to go?
You thought you were going todrive down to Mexico in the
Chevy Metro with two flat tires?
Let's, I know that it's heated,but once again, sometimes you
cannot believe just how stupidand so little forethought these
(07:34):
people have.
Like, what?
Dani (07:39):
When police opened the trunk of the car, they found
Colleen bleeding from a, fromstab wounds to her shoulders and
back.
When asked, who stabbed you?
By a police officer, sheresponded, Roger.
According to court documents,she stopped breathing after
stating who her attacker was.
(08:01):
That is so tragic, and Can youimagine being, like, you are on
the phone with the poli You'vebeen injured, you're on the
phone with police Like alifeline And the fucker will not
stop You can, she heard all ofthat
Stephanie (08:25):
And driving with two flat tires, that's very loud And
if you're getting down to therims, sparks are flying, like
You're being jostled around in adark ass trunk and
Dani (08:41):
not being able to, you're dying.
Stephanie (08:43):
Yeah.
Dani (08:44):
Hubbard was arrested and charged with second degree
murder, second degreekidnapping, and eluding the
police.
He was charged this way becausethe crime was deliberate and
with malice, but notpremeditated.
So I was like, why didn't he getfirst degree?
Stephanie (09:05):
Well, and sometimes I feel like first degree is harder
to prove because if someone'swilling to do this, you can't
tell me they haven't thoughtabout it before, which if they
didn't write it down and plan itout and whatever, I feel like
some of these people they'vethought they have thought about
it, but they can make it looklike it's a heat of the moment
(09:27):
type thing.
Dani (09:29):
I, I'm I'm gonna let you listen to this story.
This is why people I'm surethere's more.
People just need to calm down.
While awaiting his trial,Harbord wrote a letter to a
woman in Maryland, by the way, agirlfriend
Stephanie (09:45):
in Maryland?
Prison pen pal things are sostrange to me.
I'll never understand it.
That
Dani (09:52):
was read and copied by the deputies, which is standard
procedure.
Like, oh, you're gonna send aletter?
Oh, we're gonna read that shit.
Every single word.
I think he did this maybe onpurpose, but in this letter he
states quote I am NOT amurderer, but I did cause her to
die.
I can't deny that I only hopethat you're not repulsed by what
(10:16):
I have done Oh, he's trying tojust salvage a little bit of
something of a relationship.
Trying to rewrite
Stephanie (10:23):
what happened to make himself
Dani (10:25):
feel better Is what it sounds like to me.
He said that his daughters weresupposed to spend the night with
him on September 27th ButColleen showed up and demanded
the girls come with her.
He claims that Colleen hit himwith a tire iron.
He threw it back at her and thenwent inside to get a knife.
(10:48):
He put, he put the knife in hisback pocket after he saw Colleen
on her cell phone.
When he saw her next, she wassitting on the open trunk of the
car and he told her to go homeand they would talk this out
later.
The pair then just, they got ina fight.
They were threatening each otherwith custody of the kids, like,
(11:10):
he, he, quote.
It gets messy.
It, it's very messy.
And those poor babies are insidethat house.
And having to listen to it,yeah.
Uh, quote, I just lashed out andtold her I was gonna make sure
she never got custody and thather parents and boyfriend were
going to find out the cruelthings that she had been doing.
(11:30):
I told her that, that she wouldbe alone and then she snapped
and flew at me.
This is when she swung the tireiron.
At him quote.
Next thing I know, I had a knifein my hand.
When I got hit in the jaw.
I stabbed her shoulder.
I wasn't trying to kill her.
Just stopped her.
(11:51):
Just stop her.
I stabbed her again.
And that's when she stopped.
She fell down, and I thinkthat's what she realized when
she realized that's what I'ddone.
She looked so scared.
Of course, I regretted what Ihad done.
What I had felt forced to do.
Stephanie (12:14):
Okay, I'm gonna keep listening.
Dani (12:17):
He said in the letter he helped, Colleen get off the
ground and back to the car whereshe laid down in the trunk.
Hubbard wrote, he closed the lidand took off because he thought
she was dead and was filled withanger, fear, remorse, and
confusion.
Stephanie (12:33):
Okay, this is where I gotta say, there was plausible
deniability up to this pointwhere it's like she walked over
to the trunk and laid down and.
I closed it figuring she wasdead.
I don't believe that for asecond.
The rest I could say, maybe.
(12:55):
You know, his side of the story.
Or, or he could have viewed itas such.
I don't think that it was quitelike that.
You know, there's his side, herside.
And what's really, what reallyhappened.
But, you're telling me that sherealized she was stabbed and
said The best thing I can do atthis time is cuddle up in the
trunk of my car.
My life's in danger.
Let me get into this trunk.
(13:16):
Come on.
Sorry to interrupt, but what,
Dani (13:19):
what the fuck?
But when Hubbard was arrested,he had cuts and bruising on his
forehead, neck, and cheek, alongwith two abrasions on his back,
to his back.
You ran from the police, sir.
Stephanie (13:36):
And he, they had to tase him to subdue him.
Yeah.
And there could have been afight.
I don't know how much it wouldhave been that severe of a fight
on her part, but it does happen.
Could have happened.
Dani (13:48):
But you also ran from the police.
Yeah,
Stephanie (13:52):
with someone with blood dripping out of the trunk.
Dani (13:56):
You have a dying woman in the back of your car and you
ran.
And you Oh, wait, no! Didn'tthat happen when you fell over
the tree trunk?
Stephanie (14:04):
Well,
Dani (14:04):
and
Stephanie (14:06):
I feel like if she was calling the cops, that she
may have screamed as well.
I don't I think it's possible.
I mean,
Dani (14:17):
it might be, I don't know how, I heard, I read that the 9
1 1 tape that was played incourt was very garbled and hard
because she had been stabbed inthe lung.
So I don't know, because she wasstabbed, you know, in her, but
(14:39):
it, it punctured her lung.
And so, I don't know if shewould actually have The ability
to scream.
The ability to scream and belike, What the fuck are you
doing?
Like, I don't, I, I, From justmy research, I feel like it was
a very Desperate, quiet 9 1 1call, As quiet as it can be with
(15:03):
all the chaos, Because sheliterally
Stephanie (15:08):
Yeah, that's a, that's not a good injury for
sure.
But for someone to go, I knowI'm being a broken record on
this, but for someone to go andbe like, I'm gonna go cuddle up
in the trunk, and then yourresponse is, well, guess she's
dead.
What?
Dani (15:28):
His trial begins in October of 2007.
The prosecutor, Ted Fleming, inopening statement said, a knife
and time killed Colleen.
Quote, he was killing Colleenwith every second of that drive.
(15:49):
I just had to put this intoperspective at this point.
I was gonna, I didn't write thisin here.
Hawaii and 12th Avenue is wherethe hospital's at.
Stephanie (16:01):
Literally right there.
Dani (16:02):
It's a city block away.
Like, what is that?
She could have maybe
Stephanie (16:07):
gotten there herself.
Dani (16:09):
Walking.
It's very, very, very close.
Stephanie (16:14):
But she chose to go and take a nap in a trunk.
Even, even if you think thatsomeone's going to take you to
the hospital, why would youchoose the trunk?
Maybe the back seat, sure, soyou can lay down something.
Sure, sure.
Maybe in the driver's seat.
Maybe you think you're going todrive yourself.
But you say, no, I'm probablybleeding to death.
(16:35):
The next best course of actionis for me to get into the
hospital.
Dani (16:41):
The hospital sign is literally on that corner.
Stephanie (16:45):
You can, yeah, you can see it.
It's literally
Dani (16:47):
on that corner.
So, defense attorney TomSullivan is claiming self
defense.
Quote, he's not guilty becausethe only reason he was stabbing
her was because she wasattacking him with that tire
iron.
Stephanie (17:05):
Which is, you know, me and my brain.
This is what I was thinkingthat.
When he was continuing to drivearound and around that he was
hoping that she would die.
And that he could be like, well,what do you do?
Which, so many people do notunderstand self defense
Dani (17:25):
laws and how they
Stephanie (17:26):
work.
Dani (17:28):
And that's a, and that could possibly, I mean, be a
reason because he might not haveknown that she was on 9 1.
That she was actually on thephone.
That she still had her
Stephanie (17:37):
phone and was, Yeah.
I mean,
Dani (17:40):
obviously the cops are behind him, but did he actually
understand that she was on thephone?
Yeah.
Stephanie (17:45):
Cause no one has ring cameras at this time.
There's no surveillance.
The kids are in the house,they're young.
It's your word against hers.
And who's to say that someonedidn't attack you and you had to
make a tough decision, but itjust doesn't add up so far for
me.
Dani (18:04):
Sullivan also stated that he went inside to get a knife
because he thought Colleen wascalling her boyfriend and
Thought he might need it if hecame over.
I just look like there's noeloquence in these opening
statements Just so you know,this is not me.
I mean, I don't have eloquenceWhen writing anyway, but but
(18:27):
sometimes
Stephanie (18:27):
these lawyers, they're just like painting a
picture like a novel, right?
It's not
Dani (18:32):
happening here He went in Got a gun, or got a knife, just
in case.
he said Colleen was bigger thanHubbard and very strong.
I mean, she was older.
Stephanie (18:46):
What are we talking here?
I need to see pictures.
I just kind of like,
Dani (18:51):
prove her it didn't happen.
The jury also heard that Hubbardwas trying to drive to a
payphone because he didn't havea phone in his home.
Stephanie (19:01):
Which is the logical, what, what you would do.
If someone's bleeding to deathin your car and the hospital's
within walking distance, go tothe Circle K three miles that
way.
Okay,
Dani (19:12):
let me ask you this.
Where do you think the closestpayphone would be from that
location?
The Maverick.
Wouldn't it be faster just to goto the fucking ER?
Stephanie (19:22):
Exactly.
No, it is.
It is closer.
The Maverick by the high schoolor the Holly Albertson.
Yeah.
Holly Shopping Center.
Yeah.
Maybe.
The Stinker over
Dani (19:33):
there.
Is it still Stinker or Sinclair?
Whatever.
I think so.
Yeah.
That
Stephanie (19:37):
would be
Dani (19:37):
closer.
Right.
Right.
But out of all those locations,guess what was closer?
The
Stephanie (19:42):
hospital.
Dani (19:43):
The emergency room.
Stephanie (19:44):
And you don't need a phone to call 9 1 1 for medical
help if you are at the placethey'd be taking you anyway.
This is why this shit justdoesn't add up.
Dani (19:58):
I was just so pissed off about that.
And you're,
Stephanie (20:03):
additionally, There's police behind you.
Stop the car.
And you're saying, I can't stop.
I've got to get to a payphone.
Police have radios.
They work with EMTs.
If anything, if you saw a copand someone is in a medical
emergency, You stop.
Flag them down and say, help,look what's, please help.
(20:26):
Can I finish doing this?
Dani (20:27):
And then
Stephanie (20:28):
we can talk.
Yeah, you don't say, I can'tstop right now.
I need to find
Dani (20:32):
a payphone a mile down the road.
Uh, and, and then you, what'sthe wrong fucking way, dude?
That's not the way.
Yeah, you're, not the way.
Goodness gracious.
A detective testified that whenhe told Hubbard his wife was
dead, he acted shocked andupset.
(20:54):
A paramedic testified that bythe time Colleen arrived at the
hospital, she was bleeding pinkbecause she had lost so much
blood.
All that was in her was IVfluid.
God,
Stephanie (21:08):
I didn't know that was a thing that happened if you
lost that much blood.
That's,
Dani (21:12):
I, I haven't, I haven't heard of that either.
Ugh.
Colleen had called, just to putthe timeline into perspective
here, Colleen had called 9 1 1at 10 55, and the paramedics
arrived at 11 14.
(21:32):
So by the time the cops showedup, let's give it, he was
driving around in that car.
For like 15 minutes.
And all through that area.
Yeah.
That
Stephanie (21:42):
curvy.
He wasn't stopping.
Dani (21:44):
I mean, I would think that the police just based on the
location, they probably hadofficers there in five to seven
minutes.
Stephanie (21:51):
Yeah.
Dani (21:52):
With that kind of a phone call.
Because we just, we aren't thatdramatic.
Well, and that's
Stephanie (22:00):
so sad because she just called her boyfriend at
1035.
Right.
Not even an hour later.
She's dead.
Dani (22:08):
Okay, the case has handed over to the jury to To
deliberate.
By day three, the jury tellsJudge Rene Hoff that they're at
an impasse on the second degreemurder charge.
They told Judge Hoff that theyhave reached verdicts on the
second degree kidnapping andeluding an officer.
(22:31):
Judge Hoff earlier had told thejury that in order to convict
Hubbard of second degree murder,they needed to agree that he
intended to cause Colleen greatbodily harm or injury.
And I don't understand thispart.
I'm just gonna be honest, but IOr, they could consider a lesser
charge of voluntarymanslaughter.
(22:54):
How does that work, Steph?
In like a criminal case, Ithought, these are the charges,
A or B.
Stephanie (23:03):
I didn't know you could just throw in like an
alternative.
That's why I'm so confused.
If anybody has any input onthat.
Because otherwise, why wouldn't,why, so like let's say there's
one victim, why wouldn't peoplebe like.
The prosecutor I'm gonna do thefirst and second degree murder
and voluntary manslaughter Andall the charges.
I'm charging you with all ofthem and the jury just picks
what they think it is You don'tsee that do you?
(23:27):
I don't think I have.
Dani (23:28):
I have seen ones where I where they have done Like second
degree murder or manslaughter,but they're up for both, but I
didn't see that he was chargedwith that.
So maybe I, I missed somethingin my research, which is
(23:49):
possible, but I kind of feellike she's like, meh.
This is the gist that I've gotfor my research.
It's like, well, if you guyscan't decide on that, you can at
least get a manslaughter.
Stephanie (24:01):
Can we at
Dani (24:01):
least get a manslaughter charge?
Which I'm like, yo judge.
So anyways.
Because
Stephanie (24:08):
if you're not charged with that, how does the defense
fight and say, well, accordingto manslaughter, you have to do
this, this, this.
I don't know how that works.
I don't either.
Maybe it's a
Dani (24:17):
thing.
Stephanie (24:18):
I don't know.
Dani (24:19):
Email us.
After the jury told Judge Hoffof the impasse, she asked for
them to give it another try.
Defense attorney Sullivan saidthe court was pushing the jury
(24:41):
too far and that the judgeshould claim a mistrial.
Stephanie (24:45):
Eh, kinda, yeah.
I don't, it seems like in a lotof cases, when they come back
with their first, we can't, Ifeel like I've always heard the
judge says, please try again.
Maybe try to talk over whateveris the impasse points.
(25:05):
I don't, and I think a judgeshould say, say that because you
can have someone that says, I'mnot changing my vote.
I'm not changing my vote.
And then if you really just findout what, what's the root cause
of you not changing your vote.
Dani (25:20):
So let's take into account,
Stephanie (25:25):
they did go three days.
Thank you.
That's right.
It wasn't three hours.
It wasn't three hours.
Dani (25:31):
So, anyway, just food for thought.
Hough said, I do think I amtreading on very delicate
ground.
However, I have tried to be verycareful and In the inquiry, I've
made to this jury, they mightlike some guidance, I could give
(25:52):
them that guidance.
An hour later, the jury handeddown guilty convictions on
second degree murder, seconddegree kidnapping, and eluding
the police.
Stephanie (26:02):
Which, you know, I wonder if there's any case,
files that have gone into, causePeople cite certain trials and
stuff.
So I wonder if there has beenTrials where the judge even if
it's gone four days and they saywe're at an impasse What if the
judge doesn't say I'd like youto try again and please ask me
(26:26):
if there's policy or legalPlease ask me if there's things
that you guys would like to,because sometimes they go out to
the crime scene.
Sometimes they're like, changeto a tree.
Yeah, I wanna see something.
So I wonder if there's thingswhere it has come back on appeal
(26:46):
because a judge doesn't say, canyou give it one more try?
Dani (26:51):
And in all fairness, the Menendez jury was out for like
30 days or something ridiculous.
So that's a bit of a stretch tome.
Anyway.
Yeah.
I, I, I totally see your pointand, and I'm not disagreeing
with that.
It was just like the defenseattorney is like, Hey, mistrial,
(27:17):
yo,
Stephanie (27:17):
let's go anyway.
It's crazy, but it only tookthem an hour after that.
It's an hour.
That's a, it is touchy on bothsides.
She must have gave
Dani (27:29):
some great fucking guidance.
Stephanie (27:33):
She has a very stern glare.
She said, um, I, I really likeit to not be a mistrial, side
eye, bombastic side eye.
If you need any advice, feelfree to reach out.
Per my last email, please reacha verdict.
Dani (27:57):
Oh shit.
The sentencing hearing is inJanuary of 2008.
This is, this would piss me off.
It did piss me off.
Family members showed up totestify, but instead were turned
away when the hearing wasrescheduled for March.
Mmm.
(28:19):
The delay was due to Hubbard notcompleting his portion of the
pre sentence investigationpaperwork.
Okay.
So, despite the side eye, shewas very patient with this
fucker.
Judge Hoff reluctantly grantedthe continuance.
(28:41):
She told Hubbard, quote, youbetter have that paperwork
filled out.
She's not fucking around.
I'd just thrown the book at himat that point.
I would have been so pissed.
Like, what have you been doingin jail?
You have, you got a bookschedule.
You have nothing.
Stephanie (29:02):
Couldn't pencil in your paperwork anywhere.
Finish
Dani (29:05):
the paperwork so we can get this over with.
Stephanie (29:08):
Too many activities going on in the prison.
I'll play you guys some music.
You're dancing to too muchmusic.
We cannot love
Dani (29:16):
music.
Prosecutor Bozzoli pointed outthe emotional, mental, and
financial toll that this hastaken on the victim's family.
Fair.
Yeah.
I mean that's such a build up toa day when you're gonna go And,
you're going to a sentencinghearing to testify about what
(29:38):
your loss is, what this has doneto you.
You've made time for it.
The build up and just theemotional.
I'd be a, I'd be a wreck.
Stephanie (29:49):
Mm hmm.
Ugh! For the day of?
Dani (29:52):
Yeah!
Stephanie (29:53):
Yeah, that's a little, that's some fuckery, for
sure.
Dani (29:56):
The court did allow, Colleen's brother to testify.
He came from North Carolina andwill be unable to return to
March.
He testified, this monster of aman right here took her from us.
She'll never see her babiesagain, which is so sad because I
think, I mean that is sad,right?
(30:17):
But the finality of saying yourstatement, saying all the things
that you want to say to this manthat murdered somebody you love,
Stephanie (30:27):
and then you
Dani (30:28):
want to see him Then you want to see him convicted and
walk away with some satisfactionfrom that, like, okay, I mean,
it's not going to be completelysatisfied, there's nothing that
can replace a life, but you'relooking for, and I know people
will disagree with the wordclosure, but it's like, okay,
I've said my piece and he'sgoing to prison for X amount of
(30:50):
time and I know now I'm, putthis out of my brain.
Done.
Stephanie (30:56):
No, it is some closure and it's hopefully to
Demonstrate the finality of itDemonstrate the impact the
person had upon your life, youknow, it's it's your one chance
to impact Anything, you know ina meaningful way There's other
(31:18):
things that you can do but it'sso hard to be a participant once
something like this goes totrial Like this is your chance.
Dani (31:27):
Well, and we've had family members even kept from trial.
We've went through that way It'sjust there's been family members
that have done their owninvestigations Badass.
In March the sentencing finallytakes place Hubbard testified in
court that it was the biggestmistake he'd ever made made and
(31:48):
a guilt He will have to bear forthe rest of his life.
Quote.
I'm sorry, and I regret herdeath Judge Hoff said she took
into account the letters Hubbardwrote while awaiting his trial.
Hubbard had wrote, quote, evenin death she is still screwing
me over and I don't think Icould hate anyone more.
(32:11):
Unquote.
A little contradictory.
Well, they're reading that shitand they're listening to you.
I mean, this isn't 1977.
Yeah.
They are listening to your phonecalls and your letters and
You're an idiot if you thinkdifferent.
And
Stephanie (32:31):
they're gonna take anything, even if something is
said that isn't thatinflammatory, but could be
construed to where you're like,I hate it in here, and there's
ways you could say things whereit's like, is he trying to,
like, blame, or this, or, like,that's a very Direct, like, this
bitch is still fucking up mylife and she's dead.
(32:53):
Pretty much.
Oh, you fucked up there.
Dani (32:57):
Shouldn't have done that.
Hoff said, quote, Your attitudewhile incarcerated continues to
disturb me.
You brutally and violently tookher life, and instead of
accepting responsibility, youhave chosen to blame others.
Fair.
I think so too.
(33:17):
Judge Hoff sentenced Hubbard to45 years in prison with the
eligibility of parole after 25.
Hoff said she gave Hubbard theopportunity for parole because
he lacked any early warningflags like a history of drug or
alcohol abuse or a criminalrecord.
Hoff told Hubbard, quote, I havenot fixed your sentence.
(33:38):
There is a light at the end ofthe tunnel.
You can choose to deal with thatin whatever fashion.
I suggest you use itconstructively.
Stephanie (33:48):
I think that she summarized this very well of
like Basically, even if let'ssay that it was an accident.
We all know it wasn't firstdegree murder But she's like for
you to act like this You'remaking it like you're still a
threat to which you got tofigure your stuff out Stop
(34:14):
acting like it's someone else'sfault that they died because you
stabbed them And maybe we'lltalk in 25 years.
So, do you want to, do you wantto take that road and we can
talk in 25 years and you willhave a chance?
Or are we going to talk in 25years and you're going to say
some stupid shit like this?
(34:34):
Yes.
See you then.
Sayonara, sucka.
Hmm.
What
Dani (34:40):
do you think?
Well Hubbard was, I think shewas like you're a d bag why
would you ever write that downon paper?
You're being a dipshit! You'regiving us so many reasons.
Because he really didn't haveany, uh, and even, Colleen's
(35:02):
divorce attorney said there wasno history of domestic violence
or any issues Drug use on paper.
Yeah, right, but well, but therewas no they have not there was I
really do think that he was justlazy and she's like I am she
worked a hard job Out at the,Idaho State Hospital.
(35:23):
I mean, you, it takes a lot outof you to go and just.
And you have two children.
Yeah, two and four.
So she's out there, and she wasgetting off at like 1030 at
night.
So she was going out there, sheworked.
Afternoon, evening shift, right?
She's out there showing theseguys how to do daily tasks and
you have to be very patient andUnderstanding to do that kind of
(35:49):
work.
You do and so and then she'scoming home to this lazy
motherfucker Who won't get ajob?
Won't get a job and he mighthave been one of those guys like
I'm not watching my kids Untilthey're separated and then
that's all he had was to claspon to this.
You know, those guys, you know,they're out there and women to
(36:12):
not judging, but like, they'relike, all of a sudden, like, Oh,
my kids, my kids.
Well, they care so much.
They weren't there when youneeded them.
So, I mean, this is allspeculations, but I could see
it.
but Hubbard was stoic during thesentencing until Judge Hoff
ordered a no contact order.
(36:32):
Issued between Hubbard and histwo children until they were 18.
Hubbard then hung his head.
Got you good, fucker.
That one hurt.
That got him.
Roger Hubbard is currently 54years old, and in Saguaro
(36:56):
Correctional Center in Arizona.
He will be eligible for parolein 2031.
Fun fact.
Stephanie (37:05):
Tell me this fun fact.
Dani (37:08):
He's in the same prison and same unit as Alfredo
Martinez.
Unit L for loser Actually, Ilooked that up today cuz I was
like, oh my gosh that prisonsounds very familiar And I
looked it up and it's like Ican't believe you found that
it's a private prison so thestate of Idaho is shipping these
(37:32):
guys out to Arizona and I thinklike the L unit is like the
Idaho unit.
We got the Taterland folks overhere.
Maybe I should look up and seewho's all in the L unit.
What are y'all doing?
I see they're playing.
Are you playing cards together?
Sharing ramen?
Stephanie (37:49):
Well, and Alfredo seemed like a pretty blamey,
like, that was a, such a cruelcrime, that he was like, yeah, I
murdered my girlfriend, and Iput her in the closet, and I
went to the strip club with myfriends.
And he was,
Dani (38:04):
well, and, and Martinez was just a bad dude, he'd beat
up a lot, I mean, he had donethings before and been in and
out of prison.
I do think that Hubbard herejust,
Stephanie (38:15):
lost his shit,
Dani (38:16):
literally lost his shit, and it doesn't make it okay, and
I'm not justifying.
Anything, but I do think he, Ido think he thought that her
boyfriend was coming over.
I really do think that hethought that and he put that, he
should, this would have went acompletely different way if he
never put that knife in hispocket.
I don't believe he wanted, hisintentions were not.
(38:41):
to murder her that evening.
Absolutely not, you know.
He went and got it and concealedit.
And then, just don't, don't do,don't play with weapons, It just
makes
Stephanie (38:55):
the rest of your story not, believable as much,
where it's like, if you reallythought that your life was in
danger, you go in, you hide aknife.
And then you come, like, why didyou come back out?
Dani (39:09):
Right.
Stephanie (39:09):
Lock the doors, or stay there with the knife, and
if someone enters, then youmight actually have a good self
defense claim.
Right.
You might.
But you fucked that all up,buddy.
Dani (39:20):
His best bet that night would have been to lock the door
and let her call the police, andthen they would have said, This
is a domestic issue, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.
You need to separate.
Yep, and she would have wenthome, and he would have stayed
home, and everybody would havebeen okay.
They would have, becauseeventually, not doing the loop
de loops around NNU, becauseeventually after A divorce.
(39:44):
Hopefully, for most people, itcalms down.
You quit being so pissed off,and you realize that you should
just parent your childrentogether.
And you let some shit go, andrealize that that's not a big fo
That shouldn't be your mainfocus of your life.
To fuck your partner.
Your ex partner.
and also, fuck your kids out ofhaving a relationship with the
(40:04):
other parent.
Stephanie (40:05):
Well, it's
Dani (40:05):
just
Stephanie (40:05):
that they were left there
Dani (40:06):
alone.
I know, that's so sad.
Stephanie (40:09):
Ridiculous.
Dani (40:10):
This just could have went a lot of other ways.
But I don't think it waspremeditated at all.
Stephanie (40:16):
So, I don't think they, that they, even if it was
that they couldn't have provedit, proven it, they couldn't
have proved that stuff.
Ha ha ha! Alrighty guys, well,that's what we have.
A shorty one today, but to thepoint.
No, it wasn't a death penaltycase, so.
No, it wasn't, but it was.
Dani (40:35):
It's uh, I just, um, I chose this case because they're
like, these people were justliterally having custody issues.
And then there's the policeturned into a police chase.
And also it's very.
(40:55):
local, and so it kind of caughtmy eye.
and that the hospital isliterally like 60 seconds, not
kidding, 60 seconds away.
You could see the hospital sign.
It, well the hospital sign's onthe corner.
I bet you, if you just walked upa smidge and looked at the right
angle.
You could probably see at leastthe medical center that's there.
(41:17):
So just yeah, so it caught itcaught my eye.
Anyway Uh, we're listening.
Yeah, like subscribe Go checkout our tiki talks and our
Facebook.
Yeah, we're doing we're tryingto be tick talkers now badly,
but It's kind of funny.
It's kind of funny.
So and apologies for thelanguage Risa
Stephanie (41:41):
Risa, we are working on, I feel like we did a, I said
gosh darn at least two timestoday.
Not even on purpose, but I waslike, Risa's gonna be proud of
me.
Oh my god.
Maybe one of these days we'llhave one with no swear words
that will never happen.
And we'll send it to her.
But thank you for putting us onthe right path, girly.
We love you.
(42:02):
Tan four, rubber ducky.
Fuck yeah.
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