31. History Repeats: The Fatal Return of Palmer

Join hosts Dani and Stephanie as they unravel the chaotic criminal history of Edward Palmer, Idaho’s most persistent bad penny. From parole board failures to double murders, this episode dives deep into the dark and twisted tale of how Palmer slipped through the cracks. Expect a mix of true crime storytelling, sarcasm, and a healthy dose of disbelief as our hosts explore how a man convicted of a brutal 1977 murder ended up back on the streets to strike again. Listen in for a saga of bad decisions, mountainside mischief, and the ultimate consequences of a seriously flawed system.

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Episode Transcript

Stephanie (2) (00:30):
Alright everyone, welcome back to the Lethal
Library.
I am your host Stephanie.
And I'm Danny.
And today Danny is gonna tell usyet another sorted case of crime
in Idaho.
What do you got

Dani (00:42):
for us, Danny?
So here's a question for you.
How many times does a guy haveto get busted before someone
says, Hey, maybe this guy shouldstay in prison.

Stephanie (2) (00:56):
Well, I'm Cree great example there, but
sometimes, many times itshouldn't take that much.

Dani (01:03):
Oh, well, apparently in Idaho it takes a few buckle up
Friends, this one is a doubleheader of bad decisions, parole,
board failures and murder in themountains.
Let's dive into the dark storyof Edward Palmer.
Idaho's very own bad penny thatjust won't go away.

(01:27):
Sources used in this episode arearticles from, Bonner County
Daily Bee, the Idaho World, andthat bitch, the Idaho Statesman,
love you On May 20th, 1990,Boise couple, David Middle Mist
and Kathy Enoch took a shortscenic drive towards Idaho City.

(01:51):
the couple was out to deliver astuffed animal machine to the
Clear Creek Lodge, just south ofIdaho City.
And I think that the stuffedanimal machine was a claw
machine.
That's just what I picture.
I bet.
Yeah.
When they arrived at the lodge,the power was off due to a

(02:11):
recent storm in the area, no onewas around.
So they headed up to Idaho Cityto kill a little time.
David and Kathy ended up atKiller Steakhouse in Saloon.
Those who know, no, that iswhere they were last seen about

(02:32):
eight 30 that night at the bar.
Is that the, is that the one,

Stephanie (2) (02:37):
I think it's now the something or other saloon.
Is it the one with the littleoutside area?
Yeah.
Like for a band and Yeah.
I'm pretty sure it's that one.

Dani (02:51):
When the couple didn't return home that evening, the
families called authorities andreported them missing.
'cause this was just not likethem.
Yeah.
And, and Idaho City is a, is ashort, that's a really nice day
trip.

Stephanie (2) (03:05):
Yeah.
And in May you shouldn't behaving bad weather or super
snowy roads.
I will say.
Idaho City is still plagued withpower outages just because it is
in a very mountainous area witha ton of trees.
And so they still do experiencemore outages than most places in
Idaho.

Dani (03:27):
The next day, their families headed up to Idaho City
to try and find them a familymember located David's 1978
Chevy pickup, parked outside ofthe bar.
Inside the truck was Kathy'ssweater and the keys were still
in the ignition.
Red flag.
Red flag.

(03:49):
After speaking with witnessesthat were in the bar that night,
detectives turned to Clear CreekLodge, nine miles south of Idaho
City.
'cause that was their originaldestination.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So did they go back?
Did someone give'em a ride?
What's up?
Authorities were searchingaround the area and even brought
in dog teams to assist in thesearch.

(04:11):
The couple seemed to havevanished, which I will say for
them to be bringing in dogs dayone or two is pretty unique,
especially

Stephanie (2) (04:22):
for adults.
Right.
Definitely.
They're like, how do you knowthey didn't just run off to
Cancun?
Right.
Is always the thing.
Well, they're adults.
They can, they can leave and nottell anyone.
And I feel that most people knowthe type of person that does
that.
And you might have a crazycousin or friend where you're

(04:42):
like, you know there, there wasthat one time that went and did
a like 12 week backpacking inEurope and kind of forgot to let
us know, but we knew that theywere the type to do that.
But when you hear some of thesecases that are so frustrating
where it's like, yes, I knowthat my daughter is 19, but my
daughter would not do this.
She's an adult now.
But this is like, we know whereher car is.

(05:04):
There's like five or six piecesof evidence that are like.
Eh, this is not right.
And they're still like, well,it's the adult rule.
Like let's use some discernment.

Dani (05:14):
Let's So for this small county to start bringing out
search dogs, and recognizingthat there was something wrong
in the 1990s, kudos huge.
That's a big deal.
'cause I mean, we've coveredcases, we've, we've heard cases
where it gets so

Stephanie (2) (05:34):
frustrating.

Dani (05:35):
They're just like, eh, dunno what to tell you.
Yeah.
They're adults.
No, they're adults missing.

Stephanie (2) (05:41):
Yeah.
Ugh.

Dani (05:44):
In June, authorities want to question the Clear Creek
Lodges manager, ed Palmer, theydiscovered Palmer left town just
two days after David and Kathydisappeared.
Not the manager.
Boise County Sheriff CraigLanders said quote, he left

(06:06):
about a day after the peoplewere reported missing and we'd
like to ask him if he knowsanything about it.

Stephanie (2) (06:12):
Yeah, you were the manager, sir.
You're not just some dishwasherthat's floating around through
towns.

Dani (06:19):
It has us a little curious as to why he left.
We want to talk to him.
Awful bad.
We think he could answer a fewquestions for us.

Stephanie (2) (06:28):
How Idaho.
Nice.
You know, we've just really liketo talk to him.
Awful bad.
And we don't have a southernaccent here, but I Idaho Nice.
Is like, people say, people inIdaho are so nice and people are
generally nice and will helpyou.
But Idaho nice and New York niceare different.
New York nice is like extremelygenuine, but kind of an asshole

(06:52):
while saying it.
Idaho Nice is always a pleasantdemeanor even if someone is
being rude to you.
So we'd like to talk to him.
Awful bad.

Dani (07:02):
Awful bad.
Yeah.
And it's not even a southernYeah, but that, I thought that
was, it was very cutesy.
Mm-hmm.
How he was asking this guy, wedo have guns that are looking
for you, uh, and they weredelivering items to your.
Place of business that you weremanaging and so we just we're
just curious.

(07:22):
There's an

Stephanie (2) (07:22):
undertone there.

Dani (07:23):
Yeah, it was.
Yeah.
I love that Sheriff Lands saidPalmer is also wanted for a
parole violation stemming from a1978 felony conviction.
Ooh.
But refuse to release the natureof the crime.
Ooh.
Quote.
We don't have anything showingthat Palmer has a connection

(07:45):
with a disappearance, but we'dlike to question him from what
we hear.
He left on his own.
That's what's kind of strange.

Stephanie (2) (07:57):
Very much like y'all need to tell us where this
person is because just

Dani (08:03):
very weird.
He just up and left and he is onparole.
the owner of Clear Creek Lodge,but Irwin.
It said Palmer left around 4:30PM on May 22nd.
Hmm.
with no leads.
Boise County Sheriff asked theFBI to join the investigation in

(08:26):
July.
They really want to find Palmerand asked the FBI to help in the
investigation because theybelieve he is out of state.

Stephanie (2) (08:38):
You jumped town, you jumped state.
FBI.
Come on in.
They, they're very, veryproactive.
We're not talking about threeyears later like FBI.
Can you help us?
No.
And that's what

Dani (08:49):
super.
And if this county is so tinyand it's tiny now.
Mm-hmm.
It was super tiny.
If that's even val, like supertiny.
Yeah.
in 1990.
Mm-hmm.
Sheriff Lander said, yeah, wehave an idea of where he is at.
Ooh.
So I think that they knew wherehe was at and they're like, yo,
FBI, we can't go over there.

(09:12):
that's not in within ourjurisdiction, but you can so
come help us.
Like we already help us out.
We don't ask for a lot.
We're Idaho.
Nobody lives here.
and also it's not gonna be hardwork'cause we're just gonna tell
you where he's at.
Yeah.
Your time to

Stephanie (2) (09:27):
shine.
Go ahead and say you

Dani (09:28):
found him.
Yeah, but Palmer turned himselfinto authorities on July 7th for
his parole violation

Stephanie (2) (09:38):
But they didn't say what the nature of the crime
was.
But from the seventies,

Dani (09:42):
right?
78, he was a felon, whenquestioned.
So he's like, yeah, I did it.
I broke my parole.
Okay, I'm going back to jail.
When questioned by detectivesabout the missing couple, Palmer
refused to talk.

Break (10:01):
Ooh.

Dani (10:02):
He only stated that he is afraid for his life because of
all the publicity around themissing person's case, and that
he had left Idaho to visit hissick, sick sister in Washington.
Tongue twista.

Stephanie (2) (10:16):
Hmm.
Very convenient.

Dani (10:19):
Very.
On October 14th that year, ahunter was out elk hunting.
He aimed at three cow elk undersome trees and took a shot.
The elk fled and he followed ablood trial to locate the cow.
He had shot.
He got one.

(10:40):
Leroy Griffith said quote, Inoticed all these bones while I
was looking for the elk.
I saw something that looked likea leg bone and some other bones,
but it didn't dawn on me whatthey were.
Then he noticed a round objectbeneath the tree, quote.

(11:00):
I didn't know what it was untilI picked it up.

Stephanie (2) (11:04):
E.
Well, and I would have honestlytwo, because sometimes you only
see a piece and you're like,what is this?
And some of those bones, like ahip bone and stuff from an
animal, like they have roundedpoints and you find some crazy
cool bones out there.
So,

Dani (11:21):
and a bunch of pine needles who mm-hmm.
Like

Stephanie (2) (11:23):
you don't, but still.
But then picking it up andrealizing,'cause there's no
mistaking the shape of a humanskull.
There really isn't.

Dani (11:33):
he said quote, the minute I found out it was a skull, the
elk hunting was over with.
That's so ido.
I went home in a beeline andcalled the sheriff.
It's spooky how I was led to iton the first day of hunting
season.

Stephanie (2) (11:51):
Anyway, good on him for saying, Nope, hunting's
over.

Dani (11:55):
Hunting's over, gotta go.
Yeah.
There's no cell phones, therewas no nothing.
No.
You really gotta just literallycall it a day.
I bet it jolted

Stephanie (2) (12:05):
him it sounds

Dani (12:06):
like.
Oh, I would've been, yeah.
He, you know this, I feel huntermanly man.
Mm-hmm.
But I bet you that wastraumatizing.

Stephanie (2) (12:17):
Oh yeah.

Dani (12:17):
and he just said it in a very calm way, when speaking to
the media, and policedetectives.
But I'm sure when he got home hehad a different, Some

Stephanie (2) (12:28):
that's gotta rock you.
Oh, it's picking it up.
I'd been like, and you know thatit's not like ancient, you know,
no

Dani (12:37):
appropriate timing.
The partially decomposed skullof Kathy Enoch was found about
four miles southeast of ClearCreek Lodge.
She was identified by dentalrecords.
Sheriff Landers brought moredogs into the search area and
another skull was located threedays later.

(12:59):
The authorities believe it'sDavid Sheriff Landers said
quote, I think we finallylocated our two people.
We found the lower portion of abody with some clothing.
We also located a skull and whatappears to be a backbone
terrible in May of 1991.

(13:22):
Ed Palmer is charged with twocounts of first degree murder.
He is accused of shooting Davidand Kathy in the head with a 44
caliber pistol.
A woman that lived and worked atthe lodge, Michelle Taylor said
she had left the lodge that dayto go to Boise with family.

(13:42):
When she returned around sundownthe lodge was locked.
And there's a lot of small townsaround here that you have to
travel.
They're to get

Break (13:51):
mm-hmm.

Dani (13:52):
Things, I mean, they're gonna have a small little
convenience

Stephanie (2) (13:56):
store,

Dani (13:57):
if even Yeah.
I mean, that's gonna be, sometowns have a little grocery
store, but you're paying a lotof money.
Yeah.
And if you're running a lodge,you have to have bulk items.
so the, it's a 45 minute drive,maybe down to Boise.
And so it's a, that's what youdo.
You drive down to the valley andget your stuff.

(14:20):
So take care of any errands youneed to do, your doctors, your
dentist, your, anything youneed.
You wanna buy clothes, you're,unless you want them to say
Idaho City and pay$40, you'redriving to the Valley to get'em.

Stephanie (2) (14:37):
So, absolutely.

Dani (14:39):
Uh, Michelle that day had noticed David's truck, but she
couldn't find anybody at thelodge.
She then drove to Killer's therestaurant and her family
dropped her off around 10:00 PMand shortly after Palmer walked
in the front door.

(15:00):
Michelle said quote that night,I saw Ed.
I didn't think he was drunk.
He looked totally out of it.
Totally.
He seemed to be dazed that hewas, and he was coughing real
bad.
Michelle said quote that night,I saw Ed.
I didn't think he was drunk.

(15:20):
He looked totally out of it.
Totally.
He seemed to be dazed and wascoughing real bad.
Hmm.
Maybe he was out of breath or, Idon't know.
Can sometimes anxiety cause youto like have like a reaction

(15:40):
like that?
Like maybe a coughing

Stephanie (2) (15:42):
or that could maybe do it?
I think it could be an out ofbreath.
'cause listen, if I had to hikeup and down a hill three, four
miles away from my business, Iwould probably just be flat on
the ground coughing.
So,

Dani (16:02):
so he's been, he's been charged and we're clear into
September of 1992 before thetrial begins.
Prosecutor Michael Kane said inhis opening statement that
witnesses saw Palmer stumblealong the streets of Idaho City
on May 20th, as if he was drunk.

(16:23):
So we're getting differentreports,

Stephanie (2) (16:25):
eyewitnesses,

Dani (16:26):
different

Stephanie (2) (16:27):
people are

Dani (16:27):
seeing different things.
Quote, the defendant admits hewas with them.
He said he took them for a rideand then took them back.
Only the defendant knows whathappened over the next two or
three hours referring to thecouple,

Stephanie (16:45):
Hmm.

Dani (16:47):
defense attorney Bob Chastain declined to make an
opening statement.
Why are you gonna be fuckingweird about things?
I

Stephanie (2) (16:54):
don't like

Dani (16:55):
that.
Why do you

Stephanie (2) (16:55):
gotta be weird?
I feel like that's a good chancefor a defense attorney because
for one, you wanna keep anaudience.
Listening and doesn't thedefense usually go last?
Yeah.
So you want to say, listen,you're going to hear this, this,
and this, and you wanna givethem a smidge of, keep this in
mind.
We've got things that show this.
We've got things that show that.

(17:16):
So you just wait and keep thatin your head that way.
Hopefully they haven't won overthe hearts and minds completely.
And they're like, okay, I, Iheard what the prosecution said,
but I do want to hear about thatone thing that he mentioned.
So I'm gonna be listeninginstead of being like, it's a,
it's a closed case.
It's a wrap.
This guy's guilty.
So bad choice in my opinion.

Dani (17:37):
And it's just weird.
Look, if I'm a juror, I'm expectif I watch law and order, I am
expecting opening statements.
Okay.
I don't care.
Yeah.
I am expecting'em.
So if you're gonna be that weirdattorney, it's like, we're gonna
reserve our opening statementsbefore we present our testimony.
Okay.

(17:58):
You're weird.

Stephanie (2) (17:59):
It is weird, especially because the
prosecution likely just railedyour client and was like, I'm
gonna show you this and I'mgonna show you this.
It

Dani (18:06):
gives me immediate doubt.
'cause I'm like, why wouldn'tyou just tell me your story?
Because that's what theseopening statements are.
It's your story.
You're gonna lay out your case,you're gonna tell you why you're
gonna think this way and whatyou're gonna produce and
present.
Yeah.
But you just leave me hanging.

Stephanie (2) (18:24):
Yeah, it's, it's very weird.
I understand a defendant nottestifying.
Right.
I can totally understand that.
This I don't understand

Dani (18:32):
because I feel like why wouldn't you just sit?
Because on the outside lookingin as a juror, I'd be like, oh,
they wanna hear their wholestory before they present their
story.

Stephanie (2) (18:44):
Yeah.

Dani (18:45):
Sketch.
Interesting.
remember Chastain, he waspriest, defense attorney, so
mm-hmm.
We've discussed him before.
during the trial, FBI expertstestify that the bullets that
killed David and Kathy may havecome from Palmer's Black powder

(19:05):
revolver.
A scientist Vincent Gwentestified for the defense, he
said.
And that the FBI made a numberof mistakes when analyzing the
bullets to kill the couple.
He said the copper value fromthe bullets did not come from
the same batch of lead found inother bullets known to be owned

(19:26):
by Palmer.
And there was also a questionabout how they located some of
the other bullets authoritiesclaimed to be palmer's.

Stephanie (2) (19:33):
Hmm.
Now, I wish I could remember,but it was a recent dateline
where lead analysis came intothe equation.
I think it was around this time,maybe earlier a little bit, but
that that is not a science thatis used for gun like guns
anymore.
And it was kind of proven to bejunk science.

(19:55):
I could be wrong if you knowsomething different, if you're a
expert in this field, tell meabout it.
But I feel like I just heardthat on a dateline where the
like, yeah, this isn't even avalid way that you can do
comparing like the lead batch.
It's no good.
For what it's worth.

Dani (20:14):
So let me tell you why he's questioning like, okay,
this is where you got the bulletsamples from.
So when Palmer left town, hewent and gave that gun.
He was like really big intothese black powder guns.

(20:35):
Black.
So he went and gave this gun toa friend of his to hold for him
a, well, I don't, maybe you canhave a black powder.
No, he's a felon.
I don't even know if he could,he bought the guns legally, but
I don't know if he could ownthem legally.
Two different things.
but the, his friend was like, Idon't wanna load a gun around my

(20:57):
house.
'cause they're different.
They're a different type of gun.

Stephanie (2) (21:01):
Well, and why do I need to hold the gun for you?
Regardless what kind of gun itis.

Dani (21:07):
Look.
I could see these good old boysup there being like, Hey, I'm
gonna go outta town, you know,I'm a convicted felon and I
shouldn't be having this gun onme.
Mm-hmm.
so can I just keep it at yourhouse?
I totally can see this.
Okay.
You know, that makes sense.
Or I don't, I don't wanna leaveit in my room at the, he
probably stayed at that.
Yeah, that lodge.

(21:27):
I don't wanna leave it in myroom.
Everybody will know I'm gone.
They'll probably ransack it likeyou don't know, so.
Right.
So, you know, could you justhold, I don't wanna be traveling
with a gun.
I don't need to be travelingwith a gun.
I mean, there's a lot of peoplethat travel with guns, but I
don't feel like it's necessaryto travel with a and if

Stephanie (2) (21:44):
you're a felon.

Dani (21:45):
Okay, that's fair.
What friend did was, becauseit's a black powder gun and he's
like, I don't know how theseguns work, so I'm gonna go and
unload it into my wood pile.
I just, so it's not loaded.
Put it in the house, set it andforget it.

Stephanie (2) (22:03):
Easy gun safety kids.
That's not how you do it, butokay.
Yeah, it was better thannothing.
Sure.

Dani (22:09):
I don't even know how you would unload a black powder.
Like that's a whole notherthing.
Yeah, I, and I didn't researchit.
but then the sheriff said, oh, Iwant you to go out in that wood
pile and find me those bullets.
And they're not, I don't eventhink they're bullets, they're
balls.
I'm not sure.
I should have done more.

(22:30):
My bad.
I should have done someresearch.
So the sheriff said, Hey friend,that wood pile that you
discharged, all those bulletsthat were left in that gun, I
need you to go dig'em outta thatwood pile and bring'em to me.
Fair.
Is that the proper way tocollect evidence though?

Stephanie (2) (22:50):
No.
You probably should get ityourself.
Thank you.
yeah, but sorry Sheriff Lan,like you didn't wanna make the
drive.
I was partying on

Dani (22:57):
you.

Stephanie (2) (22:57):
And

Dani (22:58):
then this happened.

Stephanie (2) (23:00):
Like we got the FBI involved, we got the dogs
involved.
You can't make a quick trip upto Idaho City.
Go,

Dani (23:05):
he lived there.
Yeah.
Just go look, don't be askingthe friend to be, bring you
bullets anyways.
So that's what the defense wassaying, like, you went and you,
he handed you over some bullets.
He dug out of his anyway,

Stephanie (2) (23:19):
didn't follow the proper chain of possession or
whatever they call it.
Like who can be touching whatYeah.

Dani (23:25):
Correct.
And you can go at us and, and,correct us on that terminology.
'cause I know there's a word forit.
I just can't, there's a thingfor it.
I just Chain of custody.

Stephanie (2) (23:34):
Yes.
Nailed it.
There we go.
I knew it was a thing.
We're getting it guys.
We're trying best

Dani (23:43):
cheers.
Uh oh.
All right.
You ready?
Mm-hmm.
Testifying in his own defense.
Oh,

Stephanie (2) (23:58):
and didn't I just mention like, if you were to not
testify, that's, people are okaywith that.
Not making an opening statement.
They're not so okay with it.
So let's do two negatives.
Boom.
Let's go.

Dani (24:13):
Palmer denied killing the couple.
When asked Point blank byChastain, he said quote.
No, I did not.
No, I did not.
Okay.
Palmer admitted he took thecouple for a ride to do his fire
checks.
Palmer was a volunteerfirefighter.
Hmm.

(24:34):
But he said he later droppedthem back off at the lodge and
David and Kathy left.
And he is like, they just tookoff, who knows?
Took them for a little ride.
Showed'em my, I had to do myfire checks.
They disappeared into the dust.

(24:54):
In closing arguments, Kanestated that the motive in the
case was sexual assault.
He said Palmer shot David in thehead execution style and then
chased down Kathy and shot her.
Her remains were found about 200yards from David.
S Kathy's clothes had been foundinside out, but still buttoned.

(25:22):
Cain said this shows her clothesare forcibly removed.

Stephanie (2) (25:27):
No, I think that that could point that direction.

Dani (25:31):
The jury deliberated for 14 hours over two days before
they came back with a guiltyverdict for two counts of first
degree murder.
Prosecutor Kain said he's goingto seek the death penalty.

Stephanie (2) (25:50):
I don't doubt it, especially in this time.
Everybody's kidding everybody.
Idaho was the Oprah of deathpenalty.
I really, I would like to seethe stats and also per capita of
how many death penalties weregiven per capita during this
time, before the Supreme Courtwas like.

(26:10):
Oh, what have you guys beendoing over here for a few

Dani (26:12):
decades?

Stephanie (2) (26:13):
Can we talk about this?
Oh, will you, can you log offreal quick?
We just need to have a chat.

Dani (26:19):
Go ahead and go ahead and lock your, like, will you quiz
sending us these fucking casesto review?
Get your shit together, Idaho,in 1993, so we're three years
after this.
Horrible mm-hmm.
Murder.
These Frank, they were kids.
The sentencing hearing is heldin October.

(26:45):
I don't know what the holds thehold up yet.
I don't know.
prosecutor Kane said the deathpenalty is necessary due to
aggravating circumstances.
The aggravating circumstancePalmer had previously been
convicted of murder.

Stephanie (2) (27:02):
Get out of here.
Is this the probation that hejumped where they would not
release?
Yeah, the information.
Oh, well what the hell were youdoing, Mr.
Palmer?

Dani (27:18):
Yeah.
And you know they can't mentionit during trial.
No, they can't.
That's prejudice.
So,

Stephanie (2) (27:25):
so I see why they held it back, but,

Dani (27:28):
and that's why Sheriff Flanders was very, very
interested.
He was

Stephanie (2) (27:32):
just like, everything will be hunky dory,
bro.
Just wanna have a quick chat.

Dani (27:38):
Few questions.
No big deal.
Wasn't a bad check.
It wasn't selling a little dope.
So I'm gonna take you back.
Yes, I gotta

Stephanie (2) (27:49):
hear this now.

Dani (27:52):
In 1977, Opal Almanza, 58 and Henry Mitchell 57 left the
Spokane area.
In May to go check on herfriend's house in Spirit Lake,
Idaho.
and Spokane is located veryclose to the Idaho border.

(28:12):
Mm-hmm.
And we've done previous cases onthis that went back and forth.
so it's not very far.
and Spokane is really a largertown compared to those towns
that were up in northern Idahoat that time.
Oh yeah.
So that's, people go to Spokane,either grocery shopping, they're
clothes shopping, schoolshopping.
I bet you those kids are goingevery, you know,

Stephanie (2) (28:34):
because what's near there?
Is it Lewiston?

Dani (28:36):
Uh, uh,

Stephanie (2) (28:39):
I might be thinking of the wrong map here.
I get a little turned around.

Dani (28:43):
I think it's Lewison and Coeur d'Alene.
Oh,

Stephanie (2) (28:47):
maybe.

Dani (28:48):
I think it's kind of right in between there.
But it's Panhandle, right?
It's Panhandle for sure.
Okay.
Do you want me to Google it?

Stephanie (2) (28:56):
Let's look.
I just want it for my own.

Dani (29:00):
Because Idaho's a large state, ladies and gents, it is
quite large.
Let's put how far is Spokanefrom Let's do Spirit Lake'cause
that's where they were going.
53 minutes.
Let's look at a map.
Alright, here we go.

(29:22):
we have a gander.
Yeah.
So Spokane is near Coeurd'Alene.
which I think, oh, this is avery good case with the, the
Idaho murderers because Right.
He was going to school there.
It's like a 45 minute jaunt.

Stephanie (2) (29:42):
Yes.
So the Idaho four, if you guysare following that case, Coberg
with, with Moscow.
Yes.
Why do I do that?
Because it everyone, that's whatwe hear on the news all the
time, is like Moscow.
But it's Moscow.
Here.
Here it's Moscow.
That they're in Russia.
It's Moscow here.
Moscow, Russia, Moscow here.

Dani (30:03):
Did I say that right again?
Yeah.
Did I fuck it up?
No, you got it.
So it's very close.
even all the way to Spirit Lakewhere she was going, which is a
little bit more north of Coeurd'Alene, it's still a, a 50
minute drive.
So, um, not far.

Stephanie (2) (30:21):
No.
I drive that for work.
So do you

Dani (30:26):
So let me tell you about Opal.
Okay.
Uh, she's of course from Spokaneand she worked as an activity
director for differenthealthcare centers.
Oh, and she had three sons and adaughter.

Stephanie (2) (30:40):
So four kids.
Okay.
Yeah.

Dani (30:42):
So Opal and Henry, we're gonna go check on Opal's
friend's house up in Spirit.
Lake Opal had just recently metHenry just a few days before.
Henry was his, this is a meetcute.
Oh, Henry was a salesman andwhile out on a sales call, he

(31:02):
went to the wrong housewhoopsie.
And that's where he met Opal.
That is a meet.
Cute.
And this is in 77.
So legit.
He went to the wrong house.
There's no double checking bytexting you, double No Google
map.
No.
And you're definitely notgetting the appointment reminder
in your email.
the two hit it off and they sentsome time together getting to

(31:25):
know each other.
Opal told Henry about herfriend's place and how she
needed to go check on it, buther car wasn't running, so she
asked Henry if he'd like todrive her to Spirit Lake and off
they went.
What a fun day trip.
Like I just met you a couple ofdays ago

Stephanie (2) (31:42):
and this is crazy.

Dani (31:45):
Let's go.
I have to drive up to myfriends, Kevin, and check it
out.
You wanna go with me?
Grab some lunch.
Like, I think it's such total

Stephanie (2) (31:53):
me cute.
Very cute.
This is definitely, it couldhave been a rom-com.
We, I, we can obviously seebased on the charges.
It wasn't, but it started outthat way.

Dani (32:04):
In the early hours of the next morning, Henry went to the
sheriff's office to report Opalmissing.

Stephanie (2) (32:11):
Oh my gosh.
So that went south quickly.
And where is Opal

Dani (32:20):
Opal's body was located 150 yards from the couple's
campsite.
She was partially dressed andher throat had been cut so deep.
She was nearly decapitated.

Stephanie (2) (32:33):
How awful.
Imagine meeting a gal and beinglike, this is so fun.
We're having a great time.
And then you have to report hermissing and this is what's
found.

Dani (32:47):
Henry was a traveling salesman and his last trip back
home, the wife said, mm-hmm.
We're done.
I'm done.
So then he meets, I mean, theseguys are the same age.
He goes on a mist, he, he endsup at the wrong house and he is

(33:09):
like, this is cool.
Let's have some fun.
Like

Stephanie (2) (33:12):
serendipity.

Dani (33:13):
Yeah.
So anyway, authoritiesquestioned two men that were
staying on the property.
Edward D.
Palmer, age 21, and MiltonTarter 35.
They were camping on the sameproperty as Opal and Henry.

(33:34):
The men were arrested andcharged with first degree murder
on June 20th.
Both men pled not guilty tofirst degree murder and are
being held without bond In July,their public defender, Nick
Lamana, filed a motion to allowPalmer and tartar so fucking

(33:54):
ridiculous.
He filed a motion for them tostay in the same cell at the
Bonner County Jail.

Stephanie (2) (34:02):
Um, when is that ever?
You're usually not allowed totalk to any other defendants in
a case, let alone live with themso you can plot and plan and
scheme and get your storystraight.

Dani (34:13):
District Judge Caldwell denied the motion.
He's like,

Stephanie (2) (34:15):
yeah, no, thank you, Caldwell, for being the
only adult in the room.

Dani (34:20):
Attorney Lamana said he was going to file another motion
to get the suspects out ofsolitary confinement.
Bonner County Sheriff MikeGuthrie said his jail doesn't
have special solitaryconfinement cells and that both
men are being kept separate.
Quote, because.
We did not want them talking toeach other before the trial.

Stephanie (2) (34:42):
So you're not in the hole, you're just in a cell
by yourself.

Dani (34:45):
Yeah.
Primadonnas, that's a littledifferent than solitary.
Yes.
Confinement.
Yes it is.
You're not gonna go chit chat itup with your buddy.
No, you don't get to be roomies.

Stephanie (2) (34:56):
They were roommates

Dani (34:58):
who was in the motorcycle gang that was like, I need to
see my girlfriend now.
Yes, Gibson.
This is cruel and unusual.
And then he went to the otherjail and he's like, actually it
wasn't bad there.
I really, can I go back there?
This one's way worse.
judge Cogswell also issued a gagorder for the parties involved.

(35:22):
The trial for Palmer and Tartar.
I don't know if it's tartar ortartar.
Tina.
Tartar.
It's spelled like tartar.
Tartar tartar, tartar sauce.
the trial for Palmer and Tartarstarts in early January, 1978.
In opening statements,prosecutor Gary Finney stated

(35:45):
that after Henry and Opal wentto Spirit Lake to look at the
house, Opal was caring for thecouple, headed to Sandpoint to
visit a friend of Opal's.
Her friend Irene Coleman was awaitress at the Traveler's
Lodge, like, why we're in town.

Stephanie (2) (36:02):
Yeah, I got some friends here.
Let's go travel, let's go have adrink, travel.
And you know what?

Dani (36:05):
Maybe Al was like, look at feeling it.
Like,

Stephanie (2) (36:08):
no, let's go over here.
Can my

Dani (36:10):
friend look at, look at this guy.
Look who I brought.
You know it.
Very cutesy.
Yeah.
Al and Henry were having a fewdrinks when they met Palmer and
Tarter.
After a few hours of drinkingtogether, they were having a
good time.
Yeah.
The four of them went to thecampsite of Palmer and Charter

(36:33):
and Henry's car.
The campsite was actually a 10acre property that Palmer's
parents owned.
Mm.
It was like, Hey come we got a

Stephanie (2) (36:46):
really cool campsite.

Dani (36:47):
Yeah.
Come check it out.
And they probably were hittingit off.
I've met strangers in a bar whenI've been out of town.
Mm-hmm.
And we've chit chatted like geta few drinks.

Stephanie (2) (36:56):
Yeah.
Lemme show you my cabin.
Or like, lemme show you overhere.
Yeah.
There's a cool spot by the creekthat's going fishing.
Yeah.

Dani (37:03):
I've done it.
The two defendants had hitchhikeinto town earlier that day.
That's why they got a ride fromHenry.
I'm sure.
It's all like, Hey, we're headedback.
Oh, we could give you a ride.

Stephanie (2) (37:16):
And especially you've been drinking for a few
hours, you feel you're a little

Dani (37:19):
kinship.
Yeah.
Buddy buddies.
but they had hitchhiked intotown earlier that day to
purchase a part for the brokendown van, and then they headed
to the travelers around noon,like, we're in town.
Let's go get some drinks.
So they've been drinking sincenoon.
The group continued to drink atthe campsite, and when the new

(37:40):
part failed to fix the van, theyheaded back to town for a
different part.

Stephanie (2) (37:45):
My goodness.

Dani (37:46):
Can we just talk about the amount of drinking

Stephanie (2) (37:49):
and going back and I'm sorry.
I'd be like, I guess we'rewaiting until tomorrow for this
part.
Like mm-hmm.
Determined.
Well, you know how guys get,

Stephanie (38:00):
I could fix this van up real, if we just had the
right part, I could have thisthing running.

Stephanie (2) (38:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
That's what I'm picturing.

Dani (38:11):
But when they hit it back into town, they also stopped
back at the travelers for a fewmore cocktails.

Stephanie (2) (38:19):
You know what they're.
the drinking and driving notgood, but how many times have we
been like, you know, it's anearly night, Danny, the last
drink and we're good and then wehave like three or four more
drinks just'cause we'rechit-chatting it up and hitting
it off.
Like,

Dani (38:33):
didn't that happen last time we were, it was midnight.
Yeah.
and we told each other both.
I'm like, I gotta get homeDanny.
It's too late.
Well, this is the problem.
Normally I'm the crying, whinybitch that's ready to go to bed.
I'm like nine o'clock, which isgood for me.
I'm gonna melt at nine o'clock.
I happened to have the day offthe next day.

Stephanie (2) (38:55):
So there was no worries in the world Yeah.
For

Dani (38:59):
me and no bad vibes coming off for me.
Mm-hmm.
Like, it is time to go.
I gotta get my.
You know, if I don't get myfucking eight hours of sleep,
I'm going to shrivel up and die.
I'm like, this is fun.
And oh, I don't have to get upand go to work tomorrow.
So, shit, sorry about your luckstuff.
Let's go.
We're going.
And I'm

Stephanie (2) (39:17):
like, Danny's out past 8:00 PM I have to stay
because this is a what?
A what a treat.
What a rare treat.

Dani (39:26):
How were you feeling the next day?

Stephanie (2) (39:28):
Not good.

Dani (39:29):
I was so hungover.
I went

Stephanie (2) (39:31):
into work late.
Even Rick was like,

Dani (39:35):
I was

Stephanie (2) (39:36):
texting, trying to wake me up and be like,
honey, I think that, I think youhave to get up now.
And I was like, yeah, yeah,

Dani (39:41):
yeah.

Stephanie (2) (39:44):
Anyway,

Dani (39:45):
no, I was not doing well the next day.
This is, I know me.
Yeah.
If I'm drinking, if I am stayingup after 10 o'clock, still
drinking even to like, my idealis nine.
I wanna be in bed.
Yes, in bed.
But'cause I'm an old fuckinglady.
But midnight and I knew it.

(40:07):
Yeah.
I, and

Stephanie (2) (40:08):
Danny saves my ass too, which is why I don't
care when she's like, okay, it'smy bedtime.
I'm like, thank God, someonejust, because now I know I'm
gonna get to work on time thenext day, and I listen.
I usually do.
But man, I, I was late to workthe next day and

Dani (40:23):
it was nothing important that we, we were just,

Stephanie (2) (40:25):
if you know me in real life, no you don't.

Dani (40:31):
I was sick that morning.
Damnit.
Kinda.
I was sick of something.
Alcohol point.
No, it wasn't that bad.
No, no, no.
Seriously.
Like we just, it was just

Stephanie (2) (40:42):
a good night.
We were having a fun time.

Dani (40:44):
Conversation was flowing good.
Mm-hmm.
Apparently.
And for, we created a podcastbecause of it.
So, so these guys are like, yep,let's hit it up.
Let's have another cocktail.
But by this time.
Friend Irene was off of hershift and she sat down with the

(41:05):
group for a few hours and hadShe's ready

Stephanie (2) (41:07):
to start her night.

Dani (41:08):
Yeah.
She's like, oh fuck, I'm done.
so she sat down for a few hoursand had drinks.
This is a long day of drinking.
This is a full on day drinkingepisode here.
Irene offered Opal a place tostay that night, so they didn't
have to drive back to Spokane.
Thank you.

(41:28):
That was very sweet.
And probably the wisestdecision, you know, how you can
get not always making goodchoices mm-hmm.
Under the influence.
So Opal refused the offer,stating that Henry was drunk and
she didn't know him that well.
I am just saying, I get that.

(41:50):
Like I don't wanna hinder youwith somebody, like, look at my
shiny new guy.
Mm-hmm.
Is how it started.
And then she's like, oh, he'sgetting pretty drunk.
I don't wanna bother you withthis.
We don't know

Stephanie (2) (42:01):
how he's gonna be.
Right.
No, I, I totally get it.
And it's,

Dani (42:07):
but also way safer at a friend's house than with a
strange man.
Uh, that um, I shouldn't saystrange man, but somebody
recently that, you know.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, it's

Stephanie (2) (42:20):
a tough line there.
And honestly, hindsight isalways 2020.
Fuck.
Yeah.
If there was big, big, big redflags, I'm sure Irene would've
insisted or done more and beenlike, I really don't want you to
go.
There was a little

Dani (42:35):
bit, let's really, there was a little bit of ready flag,
but a

Stephanie (2) (42:38):
little urging.

Dani (42:39):
but just'cause he, sometimes some people get drunk.
They're way different.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, we're all different whenwe get drunk, but some people go
a little.
Yeah.
And, but Henry shouldn't havebeen of their concern.

Stephanie (2) (42:59):
Hmm.
Okay.

Dani (43:01):
So the group ordered drinks to go and Oh yeah.
Well, to go east, in styrofoamcups.
And they left around 7:00 PM sowe're talking at least seven
hours of drinking.
When they returned, Palmeroffered Henry and Opal a tour of

(43:23):
their 10 acre property.
Go on a little drive.
Well, they went back to thecampsite.
Maybe go on a little walk.
Let me take you on a tour.
I do it at the cabin.

Stephanie (2) (43:33):
Yeah.
But what I'm thinking is thedrive.
Mm-hmm.
With the, our original couple.
Mm-hmm.
Take'em.
Show I'm, do my fire route.
Oh, Hmm.
Oh, it seems a little, and Idon't know the story guys, so I
could be way off, but that'sjust where my mind goes.

(43:53):
I didn't

Dani (43:53):
even think about that.
I was like, yeah, that's apretty normal thing to do.
Like, let me, because you're anormal person.
I'm like, there's a waterfall.
If you go up to the top, yeah,you can see it.
It's really cool.
not bad of a hike, but you cansee it.
If you go down this way, you'regonna see this, you know?
Yeah.
Just like, most of the time,self guided tours, but sometimes

(44:15):
I tag along, you know, justdepends.
And for normal people, it's anormal thing.
But so they started out to golook at the property, but Henry
decided he wanted to return backto the campsite.
Henry, I.
I'm thinking Henry is prettyfucked up.
Henry's like, um, my

Stephanie (2) (44:35):
legs don't work anymore.
You want me to go hike?
What?
To do what?
No.
I am ready to be literallypassed out right

Dani (44:43):
now.
And Tarter stayed behind to workon his van.
Oh.
Henry laid down and fell asleepin his tent for a while.
AKA passed.
Yeah.
The fuck out from day drinking.
Everybody's experienced this.

Stephanie (2) (45:02):
Yes.

Dani (45:03):
And you're like, oh, hit a little too hard, too early.
Mean nap.

Stephanie (45:07):
I go bed now.
I go to bed right now,

Dani (45:09):
and then I'm gonna wake up at like nine, eat and go back to
bed.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I've never done that,

Stephanie (2) (45:15):
ever.

Dani (45:18):
When Henry woke up, no one was around and he freaked out.

Stephanie (2) (45:23):
I would be freaked out even if nothing bad
happened because you're not in afamiliar place.
You're like, I don't know thesepeople.
Where's my car?
Like

Dani (45:30):
how did I end up here?
What did I do this to myself?
Yeah.
So Henry was out of there and hetook off in his car.
He was still drunk and his carwas seen weaving on the road by
an off-duty sheriff's deputydude.

(45:51):
He was in a bad shape.
Yeah, I bet.
The deputy called in for apatrol car.
Henry was pulled over, but theofficers didn't find him drunk
enough to arrest him.

Stephanie (2) (46:05):
They're like, yeah, everybody drinks and
drives a little bit around here.
Hey

Dani (46:08):
buddy.
What they told him was, Hey,just sleep it off in your car
for a few hours.
Don't hear that anymore.
And rightfully so.
But because when you're drunk,you're not making good choices.
You're not making good choicesbecause you even got behind the
will.
Yeah.
Let alone, oh, no, no, no.

(46:29):
Just sleep it off.
No, I'm like, uh, you can sleepit off.
I'm taking your keys.
You hitchhiked to the sheriff'soffice in the morning and we'll
have a little chit chat.
Yeah.
We'll chit chat.
Little chitchat.
Can you pick you up?
Yeah.
We're not driving you anywhere.
Do you have a cell?
Oh wait, it's like he said me.
Oh yeah.
No, he's definitely, uh,hitchhiking.

(46:50):
You can't get an Uber.
Nope.

Stephanie (2) (46:52):
No.
Ubers here.

Dani (46:54):
So Henry woke up around 3:00 AM and he started to drive
back to Spokane.
He looked over and he saw Opal'spurse sitting on the front seat.
I'm not saying probablycompletely sober by 3:00 AM.
Probably has a little bit ofthis spins and he is like, oh

(47:17):
shit, I brought a woman with mehere and I don't have her.
So this changed his mind.
And he headed back to BonnerCounty and went straight to the
sheriff's office where hereported Opal missing, which A
should have B kudos'cause heprobably could have been

(47:38):
arrested for DUI.
Mm-hmm.
He was not sober enough to bedriving.

Stephanie (2) (47:43):
Yeah.
well, and I know the bar is inhell of someone being like, well
sure she's fine.
And I mean, they are kind ofstrangers, barely, not
strangers, right at this point.
So I could see someone beinglike, eh.
Case.
Raw.
Raw.
Like,

Dani (48:03):
sorry about your luck, you know, just bye.
No, but he did turn around so,uh, that was good.
Yeah.
And he went back and he reportedher missing and search and
rescue.
'cause this is literally in themiddle of the night.
So search and rescue wasnotified about a missing person
at 7:00 AM which I'm like, ifyou are call, I mean search and

(48:27):
rescue.
Yes.
But what are you gonna do at4:00 AM versus seven?
You're not seeing shit.
Yeah.
They do

Stephanie (2) (48:32):
not have temperature cameras and drones
and No, they're not

Dani (48:36):
doing anything.
And if you think about thestory, is she a missing person?
'cause she wasn't in your tent.
You drunkard.
Yeah.
Did she just find another bow?
Right.
Did she maybe.
She's sleeping under the start.

(48:57):
Yeah.
Like did you go look like, so

Stephanie (2) (48:59):
like you don't know she's actually missing.
Right.

Dani (49:02):
So I say kudos for the sheriff's department.
I'm being proactive and gettingpeople out there.
Even though instead of sayingyou guys were partying and you
lost each other in the party.
Yeah.
And she'll show up.
Maybe she's at her friendIrene's house.
Yeah.
Who knows, right?

(49:22):
'cause I didn't hear, and in myresearch I didn't hear anything
like he said, you know, like, ohit was really weird with these
dudes, or I don't trust these.
Like, I didn't hear any of thatin any testimony or anything.
So great for the sheriff'soffice getting on it.
Get getting out there.
So the search and rescue wasnotified at 7:00 AM and they

(49:46):
began their search around ninein that morning.
They have to gather people.
Yeah, people have to get outtabed, get resources.
This, you know, this is avoluntary search party.

Stephanie (2) (49:53):
Yes.
And again, people don't havecell phones, right?
So if someone's out, they'reliterally ringing

Dani (49:58):
the these guys at seven o'clock in the morning being
like, all right, we got one foryou.
So by the time they gatheredeverybody, it was around nine
o'clock in the morning.
I wanna remind you, this is 10acres.

Stephanie (2) (50:13):
Yes.

Dani (50:14):
Search and rescue did not find opal until one in the
afternoon.
They found her body partiallyclothed and nearly decapitated.
Items located next to her bodyincluded a styrofoam cup.

(50:36):
The party cup,

Stephanie (2) (50:36):
their Togo cup

Dani (50:38):
to-go is loose Change.
Palmer's wallet.
Mm.
And Opal's?
Dead dog.

Stephanie (2) (50:48):
The dog.

Dani (50:49):
The dog.
I didn't really, oh man.
I didn't know she had her dogwith her either.
But I'm thinking back in theday, she, if it was a good
little dog, she probablycould've ticketed into the bar
with her.

Stephanie (2) (51:01):
Oh, I bet.
Took

Dani (51:02):
at it.

Stephanie (2) (51:02):
They,

Dani (51:03):
that is an official word they can take us.
The dog is to the ticket, thesaloon, in Valley County, there
was a bar that you could takeyour dogs in and I loved it.
It was my favorite.
And some of the dogs would sitactually on a bar stool.
Oh my gosh.
How cute.
Yeah.

(51:23):
And just sit there.
Anyways, I like it.
I know it's

Stephanie (2) (51:25):
more popular now.
Like there's lots of littlebreweries that do it.
No,

Dani (51:29):
this just like a regular old bar.
Yeah.
Regular old bar.

Stephanie (2) (51:32):
Bar where you can have dogs.
Yeah.
That wasn't a, that wasn'tsomething every bar was doing
back in these days.

Dani (51:38):
No.
Now it's trendy and cool, butback in the day

Stephanie (2) (51:42):
it was like we're a food service establishment.

Dani (51:45):
No,

Stephanie (2) (51:46):
I'm surprised about the to go.
'cause I know in some states youcan still do it.
Like Louisiana.

Dani (51:51):
Let me just tell you though, Irene worked there.

Stephanie (2) (51:56):
Right, right, right.

Dani (51:58):
And also this is 78.
and they're, I mean, in thesesmall towns, I think we've even
done a, a story like you couldbuy six packs or a 12 pack when
you left the bar'cause there'snothing else opened.
Mm-hmm.
So they would like literallysell you booze, before you left.
It couldn't be open, but theywould and technically not

(52:19):
supposed to do it, I don'tthink.
Right.
No.
I've even

Stephanie (2) (52:22):
been to small towns now that do that.
Yeah.
And it's, it's not like yourtrendy bar prices, but it's
certainly more than conveniencestore.
But they're like, sure, if youwant to go waddle back to your.
Airbnb or your, you know,there's like 10 little cabins
around.
Sure.
You can have this six pack forhowever ungodly amount

Dani (52:40):
because there's literally nothing open.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I mean, in Cascade, after 10o'clock, the only place
everything's closed.
The only place you were gettingeven a bag of chips was at the
laundromat.
Like that was it.
And the bar was open.
Like, no, there's no, you're notgonna go grab a hot dog or a

(53:01):
microwave burrito, no

Stephanie (2) (53:02):
McDonald's, no, no DoorDash, nothing.
No, you're not

Dani (53:04):
getting anything.
So a lot of, and you know, you,it's money for them.
Yeah.
Yep.
The price.
So, and I also think Ireneworked there.
When you have it in, you have itin, yeah.
So

Stephanie (2) (53:15):
she's, she's like, let me just go get you
some to-go cut.
Yeah.

Dani (53:18):
Let me just,

Stephanie (2) (53:19):
yeah.
Oh my goodness.

Dani (53:21):
defense attorney Lamana stated, there will be a lot of
scientific evidence.
I'm just laughing because of theyear.
And he trusted that after allthe evidence is presented, the
jury would reach a fairjudgment.
Okay, Lamana, what do you got?
Super scientific Judge Cogswellsequestered the jury to a local

(53:46):
motel, and on day six of thetrial, Lamana asked for a
mistrial.

Stephanie (2) (53:53):
Oh, just like

Dani (53:55):
that.
Did somebody mess up?
The motion was made on thegrounds that the evidence and
testimony made earlier about thediscovery of marriage.
Ana was inflammatory andprejudicial,

Stephanie (2) (54:08):
not in this day and age.
It was not.
It.
It was like, you smoke pot,you're a, you're a piece of
shit.

Dani (54:16):
Right?
Because during the search forOpal, authorities noticed a
small baggie that appeared tohave about an ounce of pot in
Palmer's tent,

Stephanie (2) (54:27):
an ounce.
It is a significant amount ofpot.
We're not talking a littleteensy tinsy bag,

Dani (54:38):
but it just still, it said appeared.
Yeah.
the judge denied the motion.
He was like, no, I'm not gonnadismiss this over.
Shut up.

Stephanie (2) (54:47):
Yeah.
By, yeah.
Marijuana's a bad thing.
Back then it was super bad.
So it's like, yeah, you had aounce of marijuana.
You degenerate, like no one isgoing to really be coming to
your aid about mar it's,

Dani (55:03):
you have anxiety.
I think it's, oh, too bad.
I

Stephanie (2) (55:06):
think it's still federally a schedule one drug.
Is it not?
Yeah, it is.
It, it's on the same level asheroin.
It's super still illegal inIdaho Federal.

Dani (55:14):
You cannot have it in this state,

Stephanie (2) (55:16):
so, and I don't agree with that, but especially
back then, they're like, no, alldrugs equal are the same bad.
You could do heroin, you coulddo pot.
It's the same thing.
You're same.
You're a druggie loser.

Dani (55:27):
But I do know that Oregon is enjoying all of the benefits
from Idaho Idahoans.

Stephanie (2) (55:33):
Oh, the, the tax money alone.

Dani (55:35):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
That's why their

Stephanie (2) (55:37):
roads are so nice.
Their roads are immaculate.
You can tell exactly when youcross the border because you're
like, man, I feel like I'm justfloating on air.
And then it's like C Oh, we'rein Idaho, aren't we?
Yep.
If you were taking a nap in theback,

Dani (55:52):
I should.
No, you're not.
I should have researched howmany, what do they call'em?
They're just marijuana stores.
Just have three.
Thank you.
Well, they're marijuana stores.
Dispensaries are in, in Ontario,Oregon, because Ontario, Oregon
is literally 45 minutes from thevalley.

Stephanie (2) (56:08):
Yeah.

Dani (56:09):
Um, there's a lot of Idaho plates.
Yep.
If you drive by, you will see.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
There's one right by the Walmartover there.
Mm-hmm.
And

Stephanie (2) (56:19):
it's

Dani (56:19):
full.

Stephanie (2) (56:20):
There used to be only one in Huntington was the
closest one.
And that's a very tiny town.
And that place was jam packedevery day.

Dani (56:31):
I think that's when it was still maybe just medical.
And then Oregon said, fuck it.
Everything Ontario

Stephanie (2) (56:36):
had to get like their city ordinance.
Oh, is that what it was?
In line.
So even when it was justrecreational Huntington, they
got it in line because

Dani (56:44):
there's a fucking ton.
It boomed.
They were like,

Stephanie (2) (56:47):
boom, 10 dispensaries.

Dani (56:49):
All, all Idahoans, welcome.
Yeah, I'm just saying the stateof Idaho is missing out on some
tax dollars.
Hello?
For the children.

Stephanie (2) (56:57):
Build the schools, build the roads.
Can we get, I'm tired of my tirealmost coming off if I had a
pothole.

Dani (57:05):
Even these roads that they've just chip sealed,
they're fucking horrible.

Stephanie (2) (57:10):
They've already come off.
Ugh.
Okay, we're getting off topic,but man, it's our everyday
lives.

Dani (57:18):
A pathologist testified that sperm cells were located on
the Seminole fluid taken fromOpal's body.
During her autopsy, Henrytestified that he had had a
vasectomy when his seminal fluidwas tested.
It contained no sperm cells.

Stephanie (2) (57:41):
Can I just So there is some science.

Dani (57:43):
There is some science.

Stephanie (2) (57:44):
There's science.
Especially if you had avasectomy.
Right.
And sperm was found.
That's a great, well, we know itwasn't Henry.

Dani (57:50):
I just feel so bad for Henry, you know, and you have to
go knock out some sperm to provethat you're not a murderer.
Well, and because the pressure,

Stephanie (2) (57:57):
it looks like you could be, it's, you're working
against it.
Absolutely.

Dani (58:01):
You were drunk, you were like, this scenario was not
looking good for Henry.
No, it, it just wasn't just thegeneral.
I just met this lady and I wokeup and, oh, she's missing And
you're drunk as a skunk, I meanmm-hmm.
No, yeah, it looked bad.
I'm panicking and being weird,like leaving and leaving her

(58:23):
there.
Yeah.
It was weird.
So, but can you imagine howlike, I bet

Stephanie (2) (58:29):
he thought that vasectomy was the best decision
of his life at that point.
I

Dani (58:32):
know.
He was like, thank fucking God.
But the pressure to do that.
Mm-hmm.
No.
Not fun.
No.
human blood was located onPalmer's clothes, although they
could not tell who it belongedto or how old it was

Stephanie (2) (58:49):
because the science was not silencing
science.

Dani (58:52):
Thank you.
That was the exact thing I wasgonna say.
Palmer and Totter did nottestify in their defense.

Stephanie (2) (59:02):
See, that's okay.

Dani (59:05):
And after four hours of deliberation.
The jury found Palmer guilty ofsecond degree murder.
He is facing 30 years to life.
I'm not sure why this wasn't a,a death penalty case.

Stephanie (2) (59:21):
Yeah.
I don't, I don't know how itwouldn't be.

Dani (59:26):
tarter was found innocent.

Stephanie (2) (59:32):
Well, I mean, he didn't leave his wallet at the
scene, so that was a plus forhim.

Dani (59:37):
Yeah.
And I was testified that he hadstayed, he was working.
He wanted to get that vanworking.

Stephanie (2) (59:44):
He's like, yeah, this, I know we're drunk, but
this was our original mission.
We got the part.

Dani (59:48):
Yeah.
I've done drunk projects before.
Let's go.
And who to say

Stephanie (2) (59:51):
if that's true or not, but

Dani (59:53):
I kind of, I I am kind of leaning.
Yeah.

Stephanie (2) (59:57):
Leaving your wallet at the scene of a crime
is basically like providing yoursignature in Sharpie on the
body.
Mm-hmm.
Put a couple fingerprints onthere too.

Dani (01:00:06):
And nowadays with the technology, they would've had'em
dead to right.
Oh.
Because they would've had DNAeverywhere and Turner to been
like, did you find my DNA onthat fucking cup?
Check all my clothes, right?
Check all my clothes.
I got some grease.
I got some like, yeah.
no.
Maybe a littler jaw me, but I,I'm not being taken somebody up

(01:00:27):
into the forest and murderingthem.
Mm-hmm.
I was working on the fan, yo.
And on February 21st, 1978,Palmer was sentenced to an
indeterminate sentence of 75years.

Stephanie (2) (01:00:46):
So what the hell?
Mm-hmm.
I'm sorry.
I had to, she was processing, Ihad a drink.
I had to do a little subtractionin addition.
And I'm gonna clear it up foryou, please.

Dani (01:00:58):
After serving only 10 years in prison.
Palmer was paroled in April of1988.

Stephanie (2) (01:01:06):
What was the reason?

Dani (01:01:08):
Oh, because Idaho law allows for parole as soon as
five to 10 years for seconddegree murder.
That's such a fucking, oh, no.
Let me get you more mad.
Are you ready?
Yeah, sure.
Okay.
Lay it on me.
He was initially placed onintensive supervision for four

(01:01:31):
months.
We're talking about the parole,right?
Yeah.
And then he was reassigned tomaximum supervision.
So there's, there's intensive,and then MAXIV maximum.
Oh, that.
So

Stephanie (2) (01:01:49):
Inten Intensive is a top.
Maximums Be next below,

Dani (01:01:54):
but by May of 1989.
Palmer was dropped all the waydown to monitor status bypassing
the medium and minimumsupervision levels.

Stephanie (2) (01:02:08):
Was it laziness of the parole or was it his
charm in some way?
I can't imagine like this is arape and murdered woman,
regardless.
That's someone's been guilty of,even if someone is appearing to
be an upstanding member ofsociety, I don't care if they
are building homes for homelesschildren, I don't care.

(01:02:33):
They murdered someone andpossibly raped them too.
So

Dani (01:02:39):
most likely.
Yeah.
And he killed her fucking dog.

Stephanie (2) (01:02:44):
And the matter in which he murdered her was

Dani (01:02:47):
not kind.

Stephanie (2) (01:02:48):
Absolutely disable.
It wasn't

Dani (01:02:50):
like, oh.
Like he panicked'cause she saidno and he shot her.
No, he cut her

Stephanie (2) (01:02:57):
nearly decapitated, which is just
ridiculous.

Dani (01:03:01):
That's overkill.

Stephanie (2) (01:03:02):
And you're full of rage and, and you're fucking
weird in the head to do that to,to any person to ever.

Dani (01:03:09):
Mm-hmm.
Um, so let me tell you whatmonitor status is.
It's gonna piss you off more.
It is self-monitoring, self selfsteer

Stephanie (2) (01:03:26):
parole board.
I am doing great.
I'm awesome.
I'm building houses for homelesschildren.
I'm great.
I'm going to be out of thecountry for three to 10 weeks.
Bye.

Dani (01:03:39):
I almost said something totally inappropriate.

Stephanie (2) (01:03:42):
You know, I, I think I'm.
I'm picking up what you'reputting down, but Yeah.

Dani (01:03:50):
Palmer was required to fill out monthly reports dear,
and mailed them to the stateparole office.
He was only visited once a yearby a parole officer, and two
years after his release hekilled David and Kathy

Stephanie (2) (01:04:11):
and they were just like, oh, he is been on
parole and he is, he, he is beenon parole and I, we haven't
really checked in.

Dani (01:04:20):
I wanna know how he left Bonner County and was allowed.
I do think this is part of theproblem.
That conviction was in BonnerCounty.
And you know, if you move in outof county, don't ask me how I
know this, but I know that ifyou change counties, you have to
get it approved by the paroleboard.
Who the fuck approved him tomove six hours away?

(01:04:45):
Two Boise County.
I dunno.
I know I've been in prison for10 years, but I have this great
job opportunity six hours away,Uhuh.

Stephanie (2) (01:04:58):
Mm-hmm.

Dani (01:04:59):
No,

Stephanie (2) (01:05:01):
you've only been out this long.
We don't know what you're gonnado.
Okay.
There's, wow, this what aninjustice.

Dani (01:05:13):
Yeah.

Stephanie (2) (01:05:14):
And now we see the consequences.
'cause these poor

Dani (01:05:16):
kids would still be alive if he had, if the parole board
had held him accountable and notjust let him willy-nilly move
all over the state.
And lemme just tell, this isthe, just think about this.
He got his parole violation forgoing back up to Spokane,

(01:05:36):
Washington, which is literally45 minutes from Bonner County,
like the Bonner County Borders.
Mm-hmm.
Washington State.
But they let him move all theway down here.
We're a long state, like we arethe entire length of Washington

(01:05:58):
and Oregon.

Stephanie (2) (01:05:59):
So he was up Bonner County and he moved to
somewhere, Bonner County, likePanhandle we're talking like
near Canada.
And he moved all the way down tolike where Boise is.
If you guys know, locals willknow.
Yeah.
But look up where Boise is.
Look up where the border toCanada is.
It's not right on the border,but

Dani (01:06:19):
they're like, yeah, go ahead and move six hours away.
You're good.
You murderer.

Stephanie (2) (01:06:25):
And especially without technology like we have
these days.

Dani (01:06:29):
There was no long chain.
There was no chain

Stephanie (2) (01:06:32):
to the police station where they're like, he's
still on there.

Dani (01:06:36):
Got you.
Good fucker.
Um, yeah, that's a failure.
Uh, so we're back to thesentencing hearing for the
murder of David and Kathy.
Yeah.
So we're all the way back up to1993.
Prosecutor Kane is asking thejudge for the death penalty.

(01:06:56):
Defense attorney Chastain saidlife in prison would be a better
option taking into the accountthat a death sentence would
begin an endless cycle ofappeals fair.
It's true.
And those appeals would be asignificant financial burden to
the small county.
I'm telling you back in, back inthe day, I wanna say there was

(01:07:19):
like.
300 people in probably.
It was so tiny.
So they would have, what wasthat case we did up there where
they had to go take a loan fromthe bank?

Stephanie (2) (01:07:30):
Yes.
The Eastern Idaho one.
Where it was almost in like,

Dani (01:07:35):
no, there was the one where they had killed the guy
and then they, dragged him.
remember they were collectingfirewood?
It was

Stephanie (2) (01:07:43):
right inside.
Yes.
Right inside the line.
It was

Dani (01:07:45):
like a quarter mile inside the county line.
And this little small county hadthe burden of trying that.
And they went, I think he didget the death penalty.
And then it was appeals,appeals, appeals and it just
drained him.
So, um, I think Chastain waskind of like appealing to the

(01:08:06):
judge.
You're right, because rememberwe just, we just said this
should have been a death penaltycase.
Yeah.
But I think that that is why.

Stephanie (2) (01:08:15):
No, I agree.
Because I bet'cause it took theSupreme Court forever to notice.
Right.
But who's gonna notice firstwhen all of these death penalty
cases are getting handed out?
Like freaking candy.
Yeah.
The counties are gonna be like,Hey, hey.
Yeah, I, I get it.
We're on a kick here.
Okay, Oprah, I get it.
But we can't afford that.
We've seen what's been happeningto all these death penalties.

(01:08:37):
We have 300 residents.
How are our taxpayers gonna paythis?

Dani (01:08:42):
so yeah, he, the chastain's like this gonna be a
significant financial burden tothis small county and district.
Judge Schroeder said quote,there is a lingering doubt over
the murder conviction of Palmer.

(01:09:02):
So he sentenced him to life inprison without the possibility
of parole.

Stephanie (2) (01:09:07):
You know what?
In this circumstance, I thinkthat was probably best for
everyone,

Dani (01:09:12):
especially for these families.

Stephanie (2) (01:09:14):
Yes.

Dani (01:09:15):
Um,

Stephanie (2) (01:09:17):
keep him off the streets because that didn't
happen before.

Dani (01:09:21):
It did not.
And we don't wanna see hisfucking face.

Stephanie (2) (01:09:27):
Ever Self-monitoring.
Ugh.
Writing out your own report.
I mean, listen, imagine doingyour own review at work Exceeds
and all exceeds and all like I'ma fucking rock star.
Yeah.
If, and especially if no one'sthe wiser, no one's stopping
you.
You could be CEO in months.

Dani (01:09:49):
I'm a self-proclaimed.
CEO.
Yeah.

Stephanie (2) (01:09:51):
My goodness.

Dani (01:09:53):
Currently in 2025, Edward Palmer is 69 years old and he
resigns at the Idaho StateCorrectional Center.
He is serving two life germs.

Stephanie (2) (01:10:06):
Like to hear his story, like to hear if he was
buddies with Creech or if theyhad a, a beef.
'cause he's been in there withreets then, right?

Dani (01:10:15):
Oh, for sure.

Stephanie (2) (01:10:16):
Long time.

Dani (01:10:18):
Maybe they're best buddies and pals, they're about the same
age, right?
These guys are living in a box.
Yeah,

Stephanie (2) (01:10:26):
but they the real solitary, I bet now he knows
what solitary is.
Yeah.
Compared to what he wascomplaining about when he
couldn't be there with hisco-defendant.

Dani (01:10:34):
You mean I can't get my story straight.

Stephanie (2) (01:10:36):
We've got planning to do

Dani (01:10:39):
some, some twists and turns and, some failure
definitely on, the parole board.
10 years for a brutal murder.
That's a brutal murder.
it wasn't, you didn'taccidentally hit her with a car.

Stephanie (2) (01:10:57):
Yeah.

Dani (01:10:57):
Uh, you weren't.
Yeah, no.
You took her up there and you

Stephanie (2) (01:11:05):
found the situation and then he kind of
made the situation on the secondone.

Dani (01:11:09):
Yeah.
He's like, Hey, yeah,

Stephanie (2) (01:11:10):
I've been here before.
It's so very similar in thepartying together, drinking
together, having fun.

Dani (01:11:17):
And I think that, that David and Kathy were excited to
go up.
I mean, I've met strangers like,come look at this.
I'm like, that is so cool.
He's like, yeah, you can come uphere.
And this is where we look outbecause you know those fire
lookouts?

Stephanie (01:11:30):
Oh yeah.
They're

Dani (01:11:30):
up on a point.

Stephanie (01:11:31):
Amazing.

Dani (01:11:32):
And amazing views and you know those kids, that would be
awesome.
You're gonna, he's probablylike, I have to go do this.
Mm-hmm.
You wanna come with me and thenwe'll finish up business.
I have to go check this rightnow.
Like it's my time.
I'm a volunteer firefighter.
Like I have to go do this.
I can totally see thathappening.
And these guys, he's like, youguys could,

Stephanie (2) (01:11:51):
there's no other way to find the trails back
then.

Dani (01:11:53):
Right?
And he is like, you wanna comewith me?
Or you can wait here.

Stephanie (2) (01:11:57):
No, let's go on a little adventure.
I could totally picture goingand doing that.

Dani (01:12:02):
And then they got a sicko head

Stephanie (2) (01:12:04):
that's like, oh, perfect.
I can't believe how similar thetwo stories are.
Yeah.
So anyway, fuck you Palmer.
Have a nice life instead ofdeath.

Dani (01:12:21):
Did save some heartache, but yeah.
What a miserable experience.

Stephanie (2) (01:12:25):
Yeah.
Well, thank you Danny, for awonderfully researched case.
This was a twist and a turn forsure.
I.
again, follow us on TikTok,Facebook, Instagram, wherever
you like.
we love making little funnyvideos for you, but, any closing
thoughts, Danny,

Dani (01:12:45):
share with your word of mouth is the best way.
Oh, yes.

Stephanie (2) (01:12:50):
Yeah.
Best

Dani (01:12:51):
way to get, our podcast out there.
We're, we're over 30 now.
We've been plugging away.
So, uh, till then,

Stephanie (2) (01:13:00):
ten four rubber ducky.

Dani (01:13:02):
Fuck yeah.