44. Blood on the Highway: The Turner-Gaylor Tragedy

n this wild and tragic tale from Idaho and Utah, Dani and Stephanie unravel the chaotic and heartbreaking story of Natalie Turner, her ex-husband John Ock, and Natalie's fiancé, David Gaylor. A dramatic custody battle over two children escalates into a bitter war that spills into gunfire, leaving Natalie dead, John critically injured, and David facing serious charges. Tune in for an episode filled with courtroom drama, poor decisions, and the devastating consequences of a custody war gone terribly wrong. With dark humor and a touch of sarcasm, our hosts navigate this mess, reminding everyone to keep cool during divorces and, seriously, don't bring a gun 'just in case.'

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Episode Transcript

Dani (00:00):
A bitter custody war turned into bloodshed on a Utah
highway, two counties, guns anda family torn apart.
Yikes.
By the time the shootingstopped, 31-year-old, Natalie
Turner was dead.
Her ex-husband, John Ock, wasbleeding from two gunshot wounds

(00:24):
and her fiance was in jail.
It started with a fight over twochildren.
And ended with two funerals.

Stephanie (01:03):
welcome back to the Lethal Library.
I am Stephanie and I'm tan.
And today we're back withanother true crime tale out of
Idaho.
I don't know much about thisone.
I know that it did happen in adifferent state, but the folks
involved are Idahoans.
So Danny, what are we in storefor today?

Dani (01:25):
This is, it's a, it's a lifetime movie.
What you're gonna hear today.
Really?
Yeah.
Okay.
You're just like, how does thiseven happen?
sources used, today are articlesfrom the Salt Lake Tribune, the
park record, and the DailySpectrum, all Utah Papers.
I picked this up though fromjust an Idaho paper, but mm-hmm.

(01:45):
I went straight to the source onthis and figured they had, and
they did have a lot more.
The

Stephanie (01:49):
local papers are always gonna have all the tea.

Dani (01:54):
So this case is, a mess.
Yeah, it sounds like mess.
It's a nasty look.
It's a nasty, nasty divorce withnasty, nasty custody battles and
it just turns tragic.
This is why you gotta keep yourheads on, ladies and gentlemen,
when you are getting a divorcebecause you can fly off the

(02:14):
rails and Yeah, and then it's,it's tragic.
So.
David and Shauna Turner ofOgden, Utah were locked in a new
legal battle with their formerson-in-law, John Pooch.
I'm gonna butcher that name.

(02:35):
I'm gonna butcher it the wholeway through.
I have listened to thepronunciation like 20 times, and
I'll probably say it wrongthrough the whole thing, so
apologies.
Now, the.
The legal battle was over theirgrandchildren.
On September 8th, 2003 fourthdistrict Judge Donald Iyer

(02:59):
signed a protective ordergranting temporary custody of a
7-year-old boy and a 4-year-oldgirl to their father.
Members of the Pooching Oakfamily drove to Haley, Idaho to
retrieve them from theirmaternal grandmother's home.
The Turner's vowed to fightquote absolutely.
Until my last breath, DavidTurner told reporters, he's the

(03:22):
grandfather.
It's, you're gonna see, it'slike this, just, this mess just
continues.
Things escalate.
I'm sensing.
Yeah.
Yes.
The Turners claimed that theyhad been the children's primary
caregivers since August 8th,2003, and that removing them

(03:42):
would cause emotional harm.
John Poach still recovering fromtwo gunshot wounds beneath his
heart and through his liver.

Stephanie (03:50):
Damn

Dani (03:51):
argued the children needed stability and protection.
The children are both registeredfor school in the Wasatch County
area.
And to the best of my knowledge,they're not attending any type
of school since the Turners havecommandeered them, his filing
read.
And so the Turners

Stephanie (04:08):
are his in-laws?
Ex in-laws.
Ex in-laws.
So grandma and grandpa fromchildren's mother?
Yes.
Okay.
Just making sure I'm correct.
So the grandparents

Dani (04:21):
are Natalie Turner's, who is now deceased parents.
Okay.
So.

Stephanie (04:29):
Hmm.
Very.
It's, it's already a mess.

Dani (04:31):
It's already a mess.
Yeah, because I'm not, well, Iknow, but I mean,

Stephanie (04:36):
I don't know.

Dani (04:37):
You dunno why they had the children to begin with.
Okay, so we're gonna get intoit.

Stephanie (04:41):
We'll get there

Dani (04:45):
October, 2003.
The Turner's petitioned seconddistrict court in Ogden for
guardianship.
Asserting that there'sdaughter's death and John's
ongoing recovery made them theproper custodians'cause he's
recovering from those gunshotwounds.
And I can,

Stephanie (05:02):
I don't know the story yet, so my insight might
be wrong here, but if I was theparent recovering in the
hospital of a nasty divorce withmy partner, I would not prefer
my partner's parents to be.
I mean, I thi I think that'sjust kind of how it goes, you
know?
So,

Dani (05:23):
to quote Mrs.
Doubtfire, there're is goddamnkids too.
Yeah.

Stephanie (05:30):
Like I'm healing in the hospital.
You don't get to just as theysaid, commander, the kids.
We'll see if I feel the same asthe story goes on, but.

Dani (05:40):
John Counter filed for a restraining order saying that he
feared for the children's quote,physical, emotional, moral, and
mental health and safety.
His attorney, Rick Green, wrotethat David Turner had allowed
Natalie's fiance, David Gayler,a convicted sex offender to live
under the same roof as theminors.
Mm.

(06:00):
So the child's mother'sboyfriend, fiance, fiance, Was a
convicted sex offender.
Don't love that.
And so he's saying, you know,it, it is with the Turner's, the
Turner's approval, despite thefact that Gaylor was a convicted
child molester and a registeredsex offender in California and

(06:21):
Idaho,

Stephanie (06:24):
multi-state sex.
I'm sorry.
I don't, I don't like that onebit.
No.
So he is like, yeah, no.
And if, and if she's deceasedand they were never married.

Dani (06:33):
Hm.

Stephanie (06:34):
I don't know how long they were together, but who the
hell's this dude?
Right?
He's not family, right?
Why are you letting a convicted?
Yeah.
Sex offender, stepdad doesn'tneed to be anywhere in the
equation.
In my opinion.

Dani (06:50):
By late fall that year, both sides agreed to stay away
from each other.
Good.
The judge converted theprotective order into a mutual
restraining order and affirmedthat John held sole custody.
Okay.
We thought that everybody wasacting in good faith and John is
pleased Green told the parkrecord.
After that hearing, the Turner'swithdrew their guardianship

(07:15):
request, but soon filed a newmotion seeking visitation
rights.
The minor children have asubstantial relationship with
the Turners and the loss orcessation of that relationship
is likely to cause harm.
Their attorney, Sharon s Sipes,wrote, they asked for
alternating weekends, holidayvisits, birthdays, and two

(07:36):
summer weeks.
This is like full on splitcustody,

Stephanie (07:40):
like with another parent.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Dani (07:43):
they're a therapist.
Gregory Mayer supported thatrequest quote, I find no reason
to consider the Turner'sinappropriate to have visitation
rights with their grandchildrenfrom the point of view of their
psychological status he wrote tothe court.
So these guys are, they'repulling out all the stops.
Sounds like it.
Yeah, they're they're going fullon.
Yep.
The children's therapistdisagreed.

(08:07):
Although my general opinion isthat grandparents add to the
enrichment and positiverelational experience in a
child's life, I believe thecircumstances do not warrant the
rights of visitation for theseparticular grandparents.
She wrote,

Stephanie (08:21):
she said, mm, yeah, but not these ones, though.

Dani (08:26):
She said Currently the children are carrying a dual
concept of John, their father.
Mm-hmm.
One based on hearsay.
And the one on their ownexperience.
What I take from that is grandmaand grandpa talking shit.

Stephanie (08:44):
Oh yeah.

Dani (08:45):
Major shit about Dad.

Stephanie (08:47):
Oh yeah.
And there's probably, there'sgotta be documented or evidence.
For the children's therapist tosay this.
Yeah, link.
They had to have broughtsomething up.

Dani (08:56):
Normally, yes.
Say grandparents are good, butthese grandparents, they'd be
talking mad shit.
Yeah.

Stephanie (09:01):
But Nana says that my dad's a shithead.
Exactly.
Like, you know, whatever it is.
And that's honestly to be achild in this type of situation,
I've kind of been there beforein like weird divorce and
fighting parent times and it's.

(09:21):
I think to involve children andtalk to a child and try to get
them on their, your side, evenif you're in the right, even if
it's true what you're sayingabout the other, it fucks with
you as a kid.
So I'd much rather parents justshut the fuck up.
I mean, yeah, unless it'ssomething like, you know, well

(09:42):
daddy did try to stab mommy 36times.
Like maybe, you know, you couldbe like, it's not safe or
whatever, but.
The drama of, oh, your mom thisand, oh, your dad, this and
this, child support, and then tohave the grandparents

Dani (09:57):
feeding into that.
Yes.
It's just, it's not healthy.

Stephanie (10:00):
Try to keep it if, if anyone's going through a weird
divorce, try to not involve yourkids and then they're babies.
Be aware that as they grow, ifyou are in the right.
They will learn that on theirown and they need to learn it on
their own if that's the case,

Dani (10:23):
because they can become defensive of the parent that's
being put put down and then it'sgonna because they love their
parents, right?
Yeah.
It's so right to love theirparents regardless.
Mm-hmm.
Of how shitty a parent can be,not your business.

Stephanie (10:36):
Kids will learn though.
Mm-hmm.
As they grow, even if that, theywill learn their parents' flaws
on both sides, so you don't needto do it for them.
They will come to whatconclusions they can and just
focus on your own relationshipbecause it's fucked up to
include your kid in the drama.

Dani (10:55):
The hearing stretched into mid 2004.
Damn.
This is ongoing long process.
A lot of fuckery happening.
John told the court that thechildren have been traumatized
by misinformation.
It was also clear to me that thechildren had been misinformed or
inappropriately introduced tofacts regarding the case.

(11:17):
Their mother and me, hisaffidavit read.
He said that they had sufferedfear for his welfare and needed
routine, not litigation

Stephanie (11:26):
Well, and she is deceased at this point, right?
Mm-hmm.
So that, I mean, I can imaginehe's in a weird situation of
like.
You're hearing all this about meno matter what the situation is,
whoever's right or wrong,they're already missing a
parent.
She's

Dani (11:40):
dead.
Yeah.
And

Stephanie (11:41):
so even if she was wrong, what are you gonna speak
on?
Their dead mother?

Dani (11:45):
Well, I, this is all coming from the grandparents.
He's fighting for thegrandparents wanting, you know,
they're, they're asking forvisitation.
Well, first custody.
And then, yeah, some attorneyprobably said that shit's never
gonna happen.
So not let's go to the nextthing, which is visitation
rights.
But they're asking for like.
Normal.
Well, what I grew up with, likenormal split custody every other

(12:07):
weekend.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the Turner's maintained thatcontact was in the children's
best interest.
We're trying to do what's bestfor our grandkids.
David Turner set outside of thecourthouse.
They requested phone calls,notification of school events,
and the chance to celebratebirthdays.
That's a little bit morereasonable.
And John's attorney argued thatwhile John was open to the

(12:30):
occasional visits, structuredcourt ordered time was not
appropriate.

Stephanie (12:36):
And I feel like that too, because as a parent, I
mean, I think we all have oneproblematic family member at
least.
Like what if your sibling, yourbrother, your sister, wanted to
do this?
And yes, typically it doesenrich a child's life.
But what if you're like, I'msorry.
No.
Like my weird ass brother.
Isn't gonna get court ordered orif you have a toxic parent, like

(12:59):
to be court ordered for as aparent for your kid to see
anyone is That's not the otherparent.
Parent.
Yeah, the other parent.
Sure.
Anyone else?
Who the fuck's gonna tell methat I have to take my kid
anywhere?
Like that's weird to me.
Well, what his attorney

Dani (13:16):
said, this is golden.
I love this.
His attorney said John will dowhat's in the best interest of
his children.

Stephanie (13:23):
Yeah.
So like, yeah, I'm, we canconsider visitation, but I'm not
going to be court ordered.
Court ordered court.
So

Dani (13:30):
quit fucking this up for yourselves because that's how I
would be, I mean, like, you arejust making this way harder for
me to even let them see you.
Yeah.
You know, come spend a week withyou in the summer and you know,
hang out on birthdays.
Yeah.
Like, you're making it soawkward.

Stephanie (13:43):
Creating a total shit show.

Dani (13:47):
The dispute revealed how much pain remained beneath the
surface.
There's a lot of healing thatneeds to be done, said guardian
ad litem, Sharon Kushner, whohad represented the children
since the shootings.

Stephanie (14:02):
The shootings.

Dani (14:05):
By late 2004, both sides were exhausted.
The Turner's petition forvisitation remained under
review.
The children were settled inWasatch County schools, and John
was slowly rebuilding his healthand his construction business.
For the court, the matter wasroutine for the families.
It was the last echo of acustody war that had already

(14:28):
cost lives.
So this

Stephanie (14:30):
shit's been fucked up

Dani (14:32):
for a while.
And I'm gonna tell you myresearch, I just think it kind
of went away.
I couldn't find either, theyweren't reporting on it.
I don't know what the finaloutcome of that, but they were
exhausted.
And this was a big case overthere at this time.
Yeah.
If it's in the press.
but I, I didn't see anyresolution to this, so, and

(14:52):
sometimes, you know, things justfizzle out.
Everybody's exhausted.
So I just wanted to let you knowI did look, I didn't see
anything.

Stephanie (14:59):
Okay.

Dani (15:00):
All right.
So I started out.
With the ending.
Mm-hmm.
Let me tell you why they got,how did we get here exactly?

Stephanie (15:09):
Yeah.

Dani (15:11):
On the night of August 8th, 2003, a four hour drive
from Haley, Idaho ended ingunfire outside Park City, Utah,
around 6:30 PM.
Neighbors in the Deer Mountainestate subdivision called
dispatch to report gunfire at along home belonging to

(15:32):
50-year-old John Ock.
The property six miles east ofPark City was one of several
luxury cabins built by John'sown company.

Stephanie (15:45):
Mm-hmm.

Dani (15:46):
Natural choice construction.
Witnesses told dispatchers thatafter several shots rang out,
three people left the home in asilver Mitsubishi and sped
towards State Route 2 48, UtahHighway Patrol.
Sergeant Dan Rosenheim describedwhat officers found we located

(16:08):
blood at the residence.
He said around that timeofficers observed a vehicle
matching the description,leaving the area at a high rate
of speed.

Stephanie (16:17):
Hmm.

Dani (16:18):
Don't

Stephanie (16:18):
be suspicious

Dani (16:20):
as the The blood.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Killer Racing car gunshots.
A Summit County Deputy and aDivision of Wildlife Resources
officer joined the pursuit.
The car accelerated down BrownsCanyon Road topping 85 miles an
hour.
They had that thing pedal to themetal, and I kind of, I'm

(16:43):
thinking Browns Canyon Road.
It's probably a little windy.
Yeah.
A Utah Highway Patrol trooperfollowed them behind them.
So now we got three in pursuit.

Stephanie (16:54):
Yeah.

Dani (16:56):
When the vehicle finally stopped, officers could see
movement inside.
Quote, they could see a strugglegoing on between two passengers.
Rosenhan said, commands wereissued, but the struggle
continued.
Two shots went off inside thecar.
Oh my gosh.
Then the passenger door opened.
What can you imagine?

(17:17):
And they're, are they moving orstopped at this point?
They, they've stopped.
Oh my gosh.
31-year-old Natalie Turnerstepped outta the car, bleeding
from the head and holding a 3 57caliber revolver.
Oh shit.
Natalie ignored commands to dropthe weapon.
She raised the gun towards thethree law enforcement officers

(17:40):
that were about 45 feet away.
The Summit County deputy fired ashotgun loaded with buckshot and
the wildlife officer fired oncewith a 40 caliber handgun.
The highway patrol trooper heldthis fire Turner, fell to the
shoulder of the road.
The revolver landed beside hermedics pronounced her dead at

(18:01):
the scene.

Stephanie (18:03):
Oh, this is not good.
What in the fuck was going on inthat car?
And just.
And you just listen.
You can't take a da, you can'ttake a candy bar outta your
pocket.
If the police are pointingweapons at you, you certainly
can't point an actual gun andlisten, I, you just can't, like,

(18:29):
that's no go you, you couldsneeze wrong in a certain, you
know, some officers have nofucking self control and.
So yeah.
Point pointing a gun, it's, it'snever gonna end well.

Dani (18:42):
Inside the car officers found Turner's ex-husband John,
slumped in the backseat with twogunshot wounds to his torso.
Oh, oh, no shit.
One beneath the heart, anotherthrough the liver.
He was conscious but losingblood.
This is wild.
The driver 31-year-old DavidGayler of Haley was pulled from

(19:04):
the car and arrested withoutincident.

Stephanie (19:06):
Who the hell are you?

Dani (19:07):
David?
Officers from Summit and WasatchCounty tried piecing together.
What happened?
The car was riddled with bulletholes and streaked with blood.
Yeah.
What's happening in this fuckingcar inside?
I'm not smiling.
I'm smiling because like really?
What a fucking mess, right?

Stephanie (19:27):
Yeah.
Botched, whatever the hellanyone was trying to do, it did
not go to plan.
This is not

Dani (19:32):
working out.
No.
Inside were the spent shellcasings from a 3 57 revolver and
signs of a violent struggle.
Detectives from both countiesexamined where the jurisdiction
lines divided The evidencequote, the crime scene spanned
two counties, said Sheriff DaveEdmonds.

(19:52):
We had to work together from thestart.
Utah Highway Patrol Trooperslogged the position of every
casing, measured the distancesbetween the cars and collected
the revolver for ballisticshospital officials confirmed
that John underwent emergencysurgery through the night.
He had been shot twice with thebullets passing just under his

(20:12):
heart, but through his liver,and the other one went through
his liver.

Stephanie (20:17):
Gnarly

Dani (20:18):
surgeons removed fragments and repaired internal damage.
He was listed critical, butexpected to survive.
Here we go.

Stephanie (20:28):
Yeah, let's what in the hell happened

Dani (20:31):
long before the gun fire?
The relationship between NatalieTurner and John had already
begun to collapse under years ofmistrust and courtroom strain.
Their marriage once lookedideal.
Turner, born and raised in Utah.
Graduated from Weber StateUniversity at 19 with Woman of
the Year honors 19.

(20:52):
Smart as hell.
She met John through her work atan advertising firm in the early
nineties.
He was nearly 20 years older.
He was a Park city home builder,known for his log cabin
craftsmanship.
He also was, did gourmet cookingand poetry.

Stephanie (21:09):
Yeah, sounds ideal.
Both of them.

Dani (21:12):
They married on June 5th, 1993 in Deer Valley.
Friends remembered it as alavage and picturesque wedding.

Stephanie (21:21):
I bet.
I mean, he's a home builder.
She's smart as hell, likeprobably has some Did you say
what job she had?
Did she have a job?
I don't know.

Dani (21:30):
She was working at an advertising firm.
Oh,

Stephanie (21:32):
that sounds like money.

Dani (21:34):
And afterward they honeymooned Paris.
For several years, the coupleappeared happy they had a son
and a daughter, but the strainof raising two small children
and running their businessesbegan to show.
By 1998, they were arguing overfinances.

(21:54):
John accused Natalie of takingon excessive debt through her
business, herbs for help on MainStreet in Park City.
You know this Is she, she ifit's in Park City?

Stephanie (22:04):
Yeah.

Dani (22:05):
He said she forged his name on loan documents and
credit applications.
Oh, in fact, read his 2000 aaffidavit.
Natalie had forged my name onnumerous bank documents, credit
card applications, contracts,letters, and the like, and I was
being contacted by her creditorsas though I was personally

(22:27):
liable for those debts.

Stephanie (22:29):
Well, if you're married, you kind of are.

Dani (22:31):
I know.
Oh, she accused him of physicalabuse and emotional cruelty.
In an affidavit DA dated October30th, 2000, she wrote that the
couple had separated that Augustquote.
At that time, John hadphysically attacked me.
She stated, John has contactedhotels to find out if I've made

(22:52):
reservations.
He's contacted local lawenforcement agencies and
disparaged me.
Police were called to the homemore than once on domestic
disturbance reports, but nocriminal charges were ever
filed.
Natalie filed a protective orderon August 25th, 2000, alleging
that John had assaulted her anddragged her from the house in

(23:13):
front of their son.

Stephanie (23:16):
This is a nasty divorce.
Uh, yeah.
I'm not liking it.
Clearly, very toxic.

Dani (23:23):
The divorce process began the following month and
stretched into 2001.
Both parents accused the otherof being unfit.
Court records show multipleevaluations by psychologists and
social workers.
One evaluator wrote,unfortunately, John and Ms.
Turner's mutual animosity hascaused them to spend the

(23:44):
majority of the last two yearsthrowing mud rather than working
together to raise theirchildren.
Yikes.
Still both were found to beadequate parents except for the
mud singing and calling,

Stephanie (23:56):
but they're, they're just digging in both of them, it
sounds like.
And I've, I've seen that.
I've done that.
Not in a, I've never had like a.
This episode brought to you byour big, what's our biggest fan?
What?
Come, come on in, Adam, whichway should I go?
So I don't, whichever you want.

(24:16):
Come say what you need to say.
Round of applause.
For our biggest fan, Adam.
Adam is one of our biggest fans.
You know what, Adam?
Have a seat.

Dani (24:25):
Hey, say what you need to say.
Have

Adam (24:27):
a seat.
I don't even really have a wholelot to say.
I just wanna say, uh.
I don't even know.
You put me on the spot.
You're not on yourself on thespot.
Hey, you call me.
I made it happen.
Do you hear any noise?
No,

Stephanie (24:39):
it was, you quieted it down.
Adam

Dani (24:41):
did.
Quiet it down because this wasbrought to you by drunk boys in
the garage.
Uh,

Stephanie (24:47):
none of the men in our lives have inside voices,
and so when they're alltogether, absolutely not.
Absolutely not as you, I'm gonnahave to edit the phone.

Adam (24:53):
This Hey, I'm just saying,

Stephanie (24:57):
he said the,

Adam (24:58):
Hey.
Yeah, I'm looking at youmotherfuckers.
Hey, thank you for allowing meto be up here, ladies.

Stephanie (25:06):
Cheers.
Best our

Adam (25:08):
biggest fan.
Cheers.
I am your biggest fan.
This is pretty awesome.
I hope this makes Cut.
It's gonna make it

Dani (25:16):
TikTok,

Adam (25:16):
I think.
Yeah.
And I would like a little moreshout outs to the number one
fan.
You know, all y'all, we havedone it before.
I only had one and I'm the onlyone that this is all the
episodes.
So I would like to that youknow.
You know what?

Stephanie (25:28):
How about this, Adam, you get a lethal library tattoo.
We'll shut you out every singleepisode.

Adam (25:35):
A lethal library tattoo.

Stephanie (25:38):
Walking billboard advertising.

Adam (25:42):
I don't

Stephanie (25:42):
know,

Adam (25:42):
man, that I, you know, are you the number one fan or are
you not?
I'll sleep on it.
Okay.
I'll sleep on it.
I, I think I can put like alittle ll somewhere.

Dani (25:55):
Yeah.
Have you seen our shield?
It's pretty cute.

Adam (25:58):
Did you

Dani (25:59):
say

Adam (25:59):
it right here?
Yeah.

Stephanie (26:00):
On my, on your your, on your

Adam (26:04):
what?
You're not

Stephanie (26:05):
putting my, on your, on your, on your what?

Adam (26:07):
A doula.
Ob No, I do not have a tattoo onmy, a doula ob motherfucker.
No, that's not happening.
I'm sweating.
You know what a nice try though.
You guys kick ass.
I love this show.
Everybody should love thisfucking show.
If you don't like me saying,fuck you, fuck you, you don't

(26:27):
deserve even listen to thisshit.

Stephanie (26:29):
You heard it here first.
Folks, if you, if you like it,great.
If you don't fuck you.

Adam (26:33):
Yep.
And I'm gonna say it right now.
Live on air.
I miss the rubber ducky and thefuck.
Yeah.
All right.
I miss that shit.

Stephanie (26:42):
Let's throw it back in for Adam.
Throw it back in that

Adam (26:44):
shit.
Throw it

Dani (26:45):
back for Adam.
I

Adam (26:46):
miss it.

Stephanie (26:47):
Throw it back for Adam.
Can I get a high five for that?
All right.

Adam (26:50):
Oh fuck.

Stephanie (26:51):
Be

Adam (26:51):
gentle with the Danny.
I'm sorry I made a rock.
Ugh.
Get outta the studio.

Stephanie (26:58):
Time is

Adam (26:58):
up.
We love you guys.
Thank you for having me.

Dani (27:03):
Bye brother.

Adam (27:04):
You guys, the shit is awesome.

Dani (27:06):
Everybody listen.
Thank you.
Thank you, Adam.
You're gonna end up on TikTok.
Oh, well, I need a smoke break.
I'm sweating

Stephanie (27:18):
this episode.
Brought to you by our biggestfan.
Adam, thank you for this specialguest visit.
Oh, get out.

Dani (27:28):
I'm fucking sweating.
So bad.
one evaluator wrote.
Unfortunately, John and Ms.
Turner's mutual animosity hascaused them to spend the

(27:49):
majority of the last two yearsthrowing mud rather than working
together to raise theirchildren.
Still, both were found to beadequate parents.

Stephanie (27:58):
So they are both capable parents.
They just hate each other.
They are just really digging into fuck the other one over is
what it sounds like.
Kinda.
And this is like a third partybeing like, yeah, you both have
financially and parentally canparent children, but y'all are

(28:18):
being wild.

Dani (28:19):
Yeah.
Quit hating your ex so bad.
They're gonna be in your lives.
For the giving up.
There's gonna be weddings, nevereven mind, like graduations and
stuff.
There's gonna be weddings,grandchildren's grandkids.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Get over it.
So after the divorce, Nataliemoved to Haley, Idaho.
Where she became the executivedirector of the Haley Chamber of

(28:40):
Commerce.
She said the position allowedher to balance work with
parenting.
John stayed in Park City'causethat's where they lived.
Mm-hmm.
Expanding his constructionbusiness and working on homes in
the posh Deer Mountain Estatesdevelopment.
Oh, very posh.
He, these, these guys havemoney.

Stephanie (28:58):
Yeah.
Well, a home builder and he'sthe, I mean, and she's in
advertising agencies or whateverlike.

Dani (29:05):
Well, now she's the director of the whole.
Yeah, the whole chamber.
And Hayley is

Stephanie (29:09):
B isn't, is it close to Sun Valley?
Yeah.
So for those that don't know,sun Valley is the place to be.
If you're a millionaire,billionaire, mark Zuckerberg,
several celebrities.
Aaron Paul, Idaho native played,who on Breaking Bad, what's his

(29:30):
name?
Jesse.

Dani (29:31):
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie (29:31):
Breaking Bad.
He has a gorgeous cabin therethat was featured on the
Architectural Digest.
I want it.

Dani (29:38):
and also Bruce Willis and Yes, very, I'm not sure if it's
right daily.
And they do,

Stephanie (29:44):
they, they do like a conference there every year
where everyone brings theirprivate jets to do this like
tech conference.
Yeah, very

Dani (29:53):
bge.
So, but this distance reignitedthe legal war.
Oh, I bet John argued thatNatalie's relocation violated
their custody agreement andlimited his visitation and the
court agreed.

Stephanie (30:07):
I think that's, that is fair.
And I, four hours is far and itmakes it very difficult.
And again, especially for thekids, I know people gotta do
what they gotta do.
So you can't really faultsomeone for having to move,
whether it's for a job orwhatever, or just wanting to be,
I understand it, but there's areason that a lot of times the

(30:28):
courts will say, mm-hmm.
No, not without a previousagreement or some type of
concessions.

Dani (30:35):
On August 4th, 2003, third district Judge Bruce Lubeck
found Natalie in contempt ofcourt for living out of state.
Oh.
He gave her 30 days to relocatecloser to John or face, 30 days
in jail and a thousand dollarsfine.

Stephanie (30:52):
Oh, that's not good.
I can't imagine being under,listen, I don't wanna move ever.
Tell me you have to move in 30days.
She moved.
She did, but I mean, I can,'cause this is August 4th of oh
three.
The craziness happened theeighth.

Dani (31:07):
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie (31:07):
So I can, I'm already seeing it's escalating.
She, she's feeling the pinch andthe pressure.

Dani (31:13):
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie (31:13):
And.
I don't know what happens next,but I'm eager to hear it.

Dani (31:19):
The judge also warned that if she did not comply before the
school year started very

Stephanie (31:23):
soon, that's like the end of August, right?
That's less than 30 days.
Probably custody

Dani (31:27):
would be transferred to John.

Stephanie (31:29):
Oh, there's too much at stake.

Dani (31:32):
During that same hearing, the judge ordered John to pay
nearly$6,000 in back alimony andset child support at$927 per
month.

Stephanie (31:41):
So the both.
Not happy.

Dani (31:43):
They're both not doing what they're supposed to

Stephanie (31:44):
be doing.
They're both being crazies.
They're both gettingconsequences.

Dani (31:50):
Escalation city.
In a letter to the court,Natalie wrote quote, while the
clock ticks and our case grindsslowly through the legal
process, I am forced to live inthe real world.
The burden of feeding clothingand providing shelter for my
children has fallen square uponmy shoulders.
This is not aboutresponsibility.

(32:11):
I should bear on my own.
I kind of feel, and I don't knowif she moved first and then he
withheld child support or if hewas withholding child support.
So she just took a job that shecould get.
I don't know.
But you see the whole gist.
Tit for tap.
The stabbing, stabbing and mudslinging.
Yeah.

(32:31):
Family member said that thatruling broke her though the, the
30 days moving back or she's

Stephanie (32:38):
trying to establish, and I'm not excusing right, but
I'm just understanding howsomeone could become desperate.

Dani (32:47):
Quote, that battle over financial support and the fight
to stay in Idaho eventually ledNatalie to snap Her father said
later and sounds like snap.
She did.
Yeah.
and during going through herdivorce, Natalie, had met David
Gaylor.
Around this time.
I mean, this was going on foryears, right?

(33:09):
Yeah.
They met in an onlinescreenwriting forum while both
were submitting scripts to theHBO's project, Greenlight
competition.
Do you remember that?

Stephanie (33:19):
I don't know if I do.
What was it?

Dani (33:21):
it was, I wanna say it was, I think I wrote it down.
Maybe I didn't.
It was like Ben Affleck and,

Stephanie (33:27):
Dam.
Matt, Matt Damon

Dani (33:29):
did a whole thing with HBO about like producing a movie.
'cause this was like the whole,it's

Stephanie (33:33):
kind of ringing a bell.
I don't know if I remember itthough, but, so

Dani (33:36):
it was a big deal.
It was like a whole HBO series.
so the two began talking dailyand then they met in person.
Gayla revealed that he had had apast conviction for child sexual
abuse in California.
So Natalie was fully aware.
Friend said the pair becameinseparable and gay proposed to

(33:57):
her at a project Green lightparty in LA in front of cameras
and a crowd of writers.

Stephanie (34:02):
I think that's a red flag.
That type of proposal.
And listen, I don't know thecontext, I don't love it,

Dani (34:11):
quote.
It was one of the most genuinelyromantic moments that attendee
Julie Mullen.
They really loved each other.
Maybe they discussed it before.
I don't know.
Maybe I, and I felt like it,like I said,

Stephanie (34:24):
I don't know the exact terms of their
relationship, but for me, publicproposals especially, like this
is another event, like theycould be getting recognition for
something else and kind ofhijacking that.
I just don't love it personally.
Pet peeve for me doesn't meanit's wrong pet peeve,

Dani (34:44):
but by the end of that summer, after that.
hearing the court's deadlineloomed.
Yeah.
Natalie was

Stephanie (34:52):
pressure's on.

Dani (34:53):
Natalie confided in her friends that she was terrified
of losing custody.
She told her father, she plannedto go to Park City to quote,
make a deal with John DavidTurner.
Said, sweetie, are you okay?
And she said, dad, we've got aplan.
I'm all right.

(35:13):
And that's the last thing heever heard from her.

Stephanie (35:17):
And I wouldn't think that right off the bat, knowing
where this goes, you know?

Dani (35:27):
So we're back to David.
'cause they, they got him.
Mm-hmm.
David wasn't shot.
He was the only one that wasn'tshot.
He was interrogated in theWasatch County jail.
Prosecutors quickly charged himwith attempted aggravated murder
and aggravated kidnapping.
Both first degree felonies.
Along with possession of adangerous weapon by a restricted

(35:48):
person and failure to respond toan officer's signal to stop.
'cause this went on for miles.
They're not fucking around.
Yeah.
They're like, no.
Gaylor told investigators, theybrought the gun quote just in
case to scare John.
Never bring a gun just in case.
Never works out well and neverpoint a gun

Stephanie (36:07):
unless you plan to shoot like this.
This was a a shit show waitingto happen.

Dani (36:16):
But the investigators believe they came to kill John
There's simply no question in mymind that's what's going on
here.
Sheriff Edmund said it was apremeditated attempted homicide.

Stephanie (36:29):
It was their plan.
I.
I don't even know everything,but I'm, I can see putting
myself in her shoes, I can justsmell the desperation.

Dani (36:41):
Absolutely.
Back in Haley, the new stuncolleagues at the Chamber of
Commerce acting president, JeffBurtz, told reporters it was
known.
She was kind of in the midst ofsome custody issues, but we were
shocked.
Just shocked.

Stephanie (36:57):
Oh, I bet they, they didn't know what was bubbling
beneath the surface.

Dani (37:02):
Mm-hmm.
Investigators determined Turnerhad sustained at least five
gunshot wounds in total.
Two to the chest, one under herarm, one to the neck, and one
grazing wound to the head oof.
Authorities believe she mighthave been wounded Earlier during
the altercation at the house,Rosenhan said the head and neck

(37:26):
injuries likely occurred duringthe struggle in the car.

Stephanie (37:30):
This is why, like, I'm just the, the chaoticness of
it.
So many bullets and.
In a car speeding.
Gun shots in a like,

Dani (37:41):
this is wild to me.
Forensic evidence suggested afight for the gun.
Yeah.
Sounds like it.
Blood spatter inside the car andalong the passenger side door
showed that Natalie and John hadstruggled over the weapon.
It happened in a matter ofseconds.
Rosen Han said, then she got outof the car, the revolver, a six

(38:03):
shot 3 57 had been firedmultiple times.
Police said some of the roundsmay have been reloaded during
the altercation.

Stephanie (38:12):
What a shit show.
I'm just imagining this in myhead of, can you picture, it's
like being chased by police,struggling for a gun in a car,
someone driving erraticallytrying to get away.
There's blood everywhere.
It's a

Dani (38:25):
movie.

Stephanie (38:26):
Yes.
And not a movie

Dani (38:28):
I want to be in.
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie (38:31):
I am sure that you're gonna get into this, but, or
maybe you will, maybe you won't,but I'm just like, again, how
did we get here?
You went there, you shot him inthe house, or it sounds like,
did you think he was dead andthen he sprung back?
Like, why in the hell, listen,I'm not advocating for it, but

(38:52):
if I was.
There and had made that decisionand shot someone twice, I think
I'd wanna make sure they weredead and shoot them in the head
because, I mean, you can'treally tell where a bullet's
gone.
I mean, we're talking below theheart and the liver.
Mm-hmm.
That's, you have no idea wherethat's went, like, how is, is
this happening in a car, in apolice chase?

(39:16):
Poor planning, like I said, I.
I told Danny this earlier whenwe were on a break, but I'm just
like, this is a woman thatgraduated when she was 19 from
college.
Sounds like this was very messy,and again, not advocating for
it, but honey, where was theplanning?

(39:36):
What I, the bar is higher for mewith women, and so it's just
like, what's, what's, what'sgoing on here?

Dani (39:46):
Wasatch County Attorney.
Thomas Lowe filed charges onAugust 28th.
Authorities say Natalie Turnerand Gaylor went to John's log
cabin style home with the intentto kill him on August 8th.
He told reporters, yeah,

Stephanie (40:02):
sounds like it.

Dani (40:03):
After the chase and shootout, police found John
bleeding from the two gunshotwounds in the backseat of the
car, driven by Gaylor.
So he is talking about thecharges against Gaylor.
in an interview from jail with aSalt Lake Tribune, Gaylor
maintained his innocence, quote.
I personally don't feel like Ihave anything to hide.

(40:24):
He said I didn't do anythingwrong.

Stephanie (40:29):
Eh, you sure about that?

Dani (40:32):
Gaylor described the drive from Idaho as calm.
She was a little bit nervousabout going down there.
But was not anticipating what itturned into.
Neither of us were.
He claimed, he had stayed in thecar while Natalie went inside to
talk to John.
I heard shots and went in.

(40:53):
John was on the ground bleeding.
Gayler said they both helpedJohn into the backseat to get
him medical help.
Hmm.
But investigators saw adifferent story.
Quote, despite statementssuggesting Natalie and Gaylor
were taking John to get medicalattention, I believe their

(41:14):
intent was to finish off the joband go dump the body.
Yeah.
Somewhere, somewhere

Stephanie (41:19):
else.
Because honestly, if he would'vejust gotten him to get into the
car and could have murdered himout elsewhere, that probably
would've been the best'causethen who knows where he went?
No blood at the, at his house.
Yeah.
And, and, and if so.
Why wouldn't you stop for policeand be like, help us, escort us
right to the hospital, please.

(41:40):
Let's put on those fuckinglights.
Let's go.
Like, went through two

Dani (41:42):
counties.
Look,

Stephanie (41:43):
looking.
He's bleeding.
Unless you know that he's gonnabe like, yeah,'cause these
motherfucker shot me.

Dani (41:51):
Sheriff, Edmond said quote, it was premeditated
attempted homicide.
records confirm that Gaylor wasa registered sex offender ale in
1995.
He had pleaded guilty inCalifornia to continuous sexual
abuse of a child, and lewd actswith a child under 14.

(42:12):
Absolutely not.
Nope, I can, Nope.
And of course, that convictionmade his possession of a
firearm, a second degree felonyunder the Utah law.
Yeah.
Immediately, no.
When Gaylor appeared in fourthDistrict Court on August 29th,
judge Donald Ier read thecharges allowed.

(42:33):
Do you understand the chargesagainst you?
The judge asked.
I do.
Gala replied his attorney, ToddInger, God, these names are
killing me today.
Todd Inger told the pressafterward.
Quote, he's mourning the loss ofNatalie.
He is under personal stress,worrying about how her kids are
doing.

Stephanie (42:54):
Can I just, I know this might take some looking
back for you, but just for somecontext,'cause I know that this
was a concern of John, is thatthis motherfucker was still
around this sex offender, Gaylordude.
Mm-hmm.
How long were they actuallytogether?

Dani (43:13):
I am not sure.
Actually, and that disappointsme that you two years or less?
No, it had to have been lessthan two years.

Stephanie (43:20):
Who the fuck is this guy that wants to still be in
the kids' lives with thein-laws?
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
I don't know the whole storyyet, but I'm just like, move on
buddy.
Like there's no way that youhave a bond with these kids that
you need to be around them.
You fucking creep.
Like

Dani (43:39):
kinda.
Yeah.

Stephanie (43:40):
I don't like it.

Dani (43:41):
I don't, yeah.
The bond was at a hundredthousand dollars cash only for
Gaylor.
Prosecutors said the case mightalso draw some federal interest
because Gaylor had carried afirearm across state lines.
They're gonna get this.
Fuck up.
You're fucked.
Quote that combined with thefact that the man is a convicted

(44:03):
felon has peaked the interest ofthe US Attorney's office.
That one that he

Stephanie (44:07):
gave an interview that's like, I don't think I did
nothing.
What?
You're a fucking

Dani (44:13):
felon, bro.
No.
The Utah investigators portrayedTurner and Gay as conspirators
and a botched murder plot inIdaho.
Friends saw them as a coupleoverwhelmed by years of custody
warfare.
Brian McNeary, the chief ofpolice, and Hailey said, quoted
upsets me because I knew her.

(44:34):
We had no negative dealings withTurner or Gayler,

Stephanie (44:38):
and that's what is so unfortunate is yes, you may be
in the right, yes, you may be.
You know, things get fuckingmessy in relationships, but
John.
Didn't try to kill her, andmaybe he didn't try to kill her
yet.
Who knows?
It sounds like this could haveescalated to craziness on both

(45:00):
sides, but you can't go aroundtrying to murder people about
it.
Can't murder back like that.
You, you lose all credibility atthat point.
Like, I don't, it sounds like.
Yeah.
Everyone agreed that they wereboth playing very dirty and
being incredibly shitty to eachother.
So, and John

Dani (45:21):
was winning in court.
Mm-hmm.
And that's where you see thedesperate he was winning and the
30 day, yeah.
I

Stephanie (45:27):
total I can or lose cus like it'll be au
automatically given to him.
Yep.
Yeah.
Panic.
That was her worst fear.
Mm-hmm.
That was her worst fear.
She's trying to establishherself.
Again, not an excuse, but y'allgotta not get.
Dig your heels in about thisshit.
Like you have to find a way tocompromise, and I know how it is

(45:49):
when you have a very tumultuousending but can't be doing this
shit.
This is what happens.

Dani (46:00):
The autopsy confirmed what officers had reported at the
scene.
Turner died from multiplegunshot wounds, at least two of
which were inflicted by lawenforcement officers,

Stephanie (46:09):
so she may have been shot

Dani (46:11):
by him.
The medical examiner notedinjuries consistent with a
violent struggle before sheexited the car.
By the end of August, the casefile grew to hundreds of pages.
Split between was Hutch andSummit Counties'cause they're
dealing with two counties.
Dual counties always makes it amess.
Quote, we're anxious to go, butout of the respect, two other

(46:33):
agencies will wait.
Lowe said, of the decision tofile federal charges.
Edmonds added using evidencefrom a crime scene that spans
two counties.
Investigators are puttingtogether a puzzle they hope will
reveal what occurred that nightat John's home and what led to
John's gunshot wounds.
Turner's death at the hands ofdeputies and gay's arrest in

(46:54):
connection with the incident.
So much, so much messy.
Yeah, and everyone wants to gettheir ducks in a row, so the
autopsy turner was struck fivetimes.
Shit.
authorities said she diedinstantly.
Edmonds told reporters, quote,that is the scariest thing you
can encounter as a peaceofficer, an armed assailant.

Stephanie (47:17):
Yeah.

Dani (47:20):
Wasatch County attorney Thomas Lowe, reached the same
conclusion.
According to Natalie's father,Gaylor shot him.
He said the case has been fullyinvestigated and Wasatch County
will not charge John in thematter.

(47:40):
The investigative reportreconstructed the final struggle
inside the eclipse.
Oh, so what happened?
John was bleeding significantlyfrom two gunshot wounds during
the struggle.
John apparently obtained the 357 handgun and fired several
shots inside the vehicle atNatalie

Stephanie (48:00):
Chaos

Dani (48:00):
with some of them striking her dash cam video from three
patrol vehicles recorded themoments before Turner stepped
out of the passenger door with arevolver.

Stephanie (48:12):
So, yeah, kind of a, it sounds like she was going a
little body and Clyde like if,if she, if the dash cam, I
haven't seen the footage oranything, but if the dash cam
shows her doing that, what thehell are you doing girl?
It was not pretty

Dani (48:31):
John was the victim here, Edmund said at a press
conference.
The evidence supports that thiswas a premeditated attempt on
his life by Natalie Turner andDavid Gayler.
The sheriff added that hisdepartment's review board has
already exonerated the deputywho fired the shotgun quote.
We don't anticipate any problemswith that at all.
So they're saying, you know,they're clear, there's no,

(48:53):
they're clear in the guys foul

Stephanie (48:54):
play.
Yeah.

Dani (48:56):
David Turner did not agree.
The Ogden father said UtahHighway Patrol investigators
told him the video showed Johnshooting his daughter twice.
They see very clearly that Johnshot Natalie.
He said he believed John shouldbe charged.

Stephanie (49:14):
I'm sorry if I've been shot twice.
How is anything after that notself-defense?
What do they say?
Never go to the second location.
Uhuh.
If I get the gun, you've shot metwice and I get the gun, I
fucking started blasting.
Like, like if I, can you imagineand listen, I, once again, the

(49:41):
dash cam isn't gonna show whathappened in the car and
everything.
But from what I have heard, ifI, if you have been shot twice.
And are lucky enough to somehowcontain the gun.
The gun.
I'm shooting.
I'm shooting everythingeverywhere.

(50:01):
I am pulling that trigger.
And because that doesn't happen,that doesn't happen.
And so if you pajamas even stillalive after being shot twice.
Yes.
Almost in the heart.
Yeah.
And so.
No, I am.
I am clawing my way back fromhell, bitch.
You better believe it.

(50:23):
Well, David

Dani (50:24):
Turner said he believed that John should be charged.

Stephanie (50:27):
Sorry, dad.
That's her dad, right?
Yep.
I'm so sorry, but in what world?
Absolutely not

Dani (50:38):
he, he said, we just wanna know, we know there wasn't any
time for any investigation.
We're outraged.
he was literally shot.
I don't at his house.

Stephanie (50:51):
Listen, I know a parent's love.
I know he wants to ride for hisdaughter, but this just sounds
ridiculous to me.
Little common sense pro.
How in the hell if it was theother way around, would you say
that she needs to be charged?
If he had shot her twice right,and was driving her somewhere
that she didn't know, and thenshe got the gun and wouldn't

(51:12):
pull over for authority.
If you really help me get to thehospital, bro.
Mm-hmm.
Put those red and blues on forme.
Are you shitting my dick?
I'm sorry.
I, I get the fatherly love, butyou gotta have some, we, we have
to be based in reality here.

Dani (51:34):
John's family remained mostly silent.
His adult daughter, April toldreporters that her father was
doing phenomenally well and thatthe family was focused on
gaining full custody of thechildren.
He has full custodial rights ofthose kids.
She said he had multiplegunshots.
In multiple different areas.

(51:56):
These organs were removed andrepaired.
She said surgeons had repaireddamage to his liver, spleen,
kidneys, intestines, and otherabdominal organs.
Yeah, he was fucked up.
And just so you know, April,because John was 50, this, he
had older children.
Mm-hmm.
So April, I believe she was 20in her, at least her early

(52:18):
twenties.
So sure she was an adult.
While prosecutors built theircase, Gaylor said in the Wasatch
County jail, writing letters toTurner's family.
According to David Turner quote,he was very genuine and very
sweet.
He worshiped my daughter and heprobably ruined his life because

(52:38):
he worshiped my daughter.

Stephanie (52:41):
So let him around the grandkid like what?
What?

Dani (52:48):
Just after 3:00 PM on September 1st, 2003, an inmate
inside the Wasatch County Jailnoticed something wrong through
an opening between the cellblock and the bathroom wall.
He saw the bottoms of a man'sfeet hanging.
guards Rushed in, cut down.
31-year-old David Gayler andbegan CPR.

(53:12):
Sergeant Jeff Winterton laterdescribed what they found.
Gaylor had tied a sheet to a toprail.
He said deputies cut him down.
CPR was performed and his pulsewas established before he left
the jail.
Gayler was airlifted to theUniversity of Utah Health
Sciences Center in Salt LakeCity E.

(53:36):
His attorney, Todd Inger, saidhis client was on life support
quote.
Now the family is basicallydeciding what to do.
It's a foregone conclusion.
He's going to die.
Oh, at this point it's just amatter of time.
The next day on September 2nd,gay's family authorized doctors
to remove life support.

(53:59):
She's just sort of stunned bythe whole thing as any parent
would be.
As zinger said of gay's mother,Naomi Leonard, who had flown in
from California.
Gaylor died within 12 hours.

Stephanie (54:11):
Damn.

Dani (54:12):
Is this just a fucking tragedy?
All the way all around?
Yeah.

Stephanie (54:15):
It just.
Everyone that touched this isexperience like the kids, the
parents, the boyfriend.
Like, I don't, people need towoo saw they, they do need to.
Woo saw

Dani (54:30):
authorities later discovered that Gayler had
written a 22 page letter before,the attempt outlining his love
for Natalie and her twochildren.
David Turner said he planned tokeep the letter for the
grandchildren until they wereold enough to read it.
Quote, this kid is very fragile.
He told the park record, I'vebeen worried about him since day

(54:50):
one, and the letter Gaylordescribed guilt and grief.
He wanted to be with Natalie.
David Turner said,

Stephanie (55:02):
why?
This is literally likeShakespearean and, and I am
still struggling.
Again, I wasn't, I don't knowall the ins and outs.
We never will.
But for the, the father ofNatalie to be like, I'm keeping
this for the grandkids, for mygrandkids, her kids.

Dani (55:24):
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie (55:25):
It's, to me, my opinion is that it's a little
strange that, that this man thatwas not their father.
I just, maybe the kids felt thesame way.
Maybe he was a really cool guy,really cool stepdad.
I don't know.
But just knowing that he is likea sex offender for like 14 and

(55:47):
under.
Like why are we, I don't know ifI would, I,

Dani (55:54):
Sorry.
I didn't know if I was being,but I'm, I'm agreeing with you.
Like, I don't know shit.

Stephanie (56:00):
Yeah, it's, it's just from the outside looking in and
that's what we are doing.
That's a bit

Dani (56:06):
strange to me.
No, I really think that herfamily really liked this guy,
and maybe even if

Stephanie (56:15):
you, I mean, for me, a two year relationship is like
kids in high school do that likethat.
If it was like.
Oh, had raised them, you know,seven, eight year maybe I would
understand a bit more, butclearly he didn't have good
judgment If he was willing toindulge her plan and help her as

(56:38):
a felon, and not be like, listenbabe, this is, listen babe, I
get the feeling.
We can't actually do thatthough.
Like there's.
And with such poor planning andhow terribly it went, like who's
the adult in the room?
There wasn't one,

Dani (56:57):
and I didn't do the math thing on how old he was when he
got this charge in 95.
Like, you know, was he, was he18 and the girl was 13?
Still not, but back then in thenineties that was a thing.
Yeah, you could do that.
So I times maybe, but under 14really?

(57:17):
Because if it would've beenunder 16, I was like, well, was
she 15 and he was 18?
But I didn't, I couldn't findanything like detailed on like
to put it together, how old thechild was, how old.
I could do some math, but Ididn't.

Stephanie (57:32):
Regardless,

Dani (57:34):
I don't, I don't, and

Stephanie (57:35):
they didn't charge people with that back then.
Mike know.
I don't know any man that comesinto a life as a step.
Fuck it.
I don't know any man that comesinto children's life as a
stepdad and within two yearswould be deserving.
Less than two years would bedeserving of like, oh, I wanna

(57:57):
keep something to give to thekid, like the grandkids.
That's really fucking you up,isn't it?
It it just, maybe it was aspecial case.
I don't, I don't know, but justthat.
they wanted to fight legally andget grandparents' rights and
they were willing to keep him inknowing that obviously that
doesn't look good for a court,that he has children, sexual

(58:21):
offenses, like, it's just verystrange.
Like people can be veryconvincing and very charming,
and I'm just like, you werewilling to keep this guy in your
life even though you wanted tofight to the teeth and nail to
get custody of these kids.
It's just.

Dani (58:37):
That would be the first thing I would do as a
grandparent.
Like, oh, this guy cut off.
Yes,

Stephanie (58:41):
you gotta go.
No, you're not gonna get that onme in court.
No, absolutely not.
But that you were like, no, heneeds to be part of their lies.
He's, yeah.
What?

Dani (58:51):
Wasatch County attorney?
low close the criminal case.
Days later it's done.
He told reporters we're stillawaiting the death certificate,
but the case is closed.

Stephanie (59:02):
Yeah.

Dani (59:04):
Family members authorized gay's, burial in Colorado near
other relatives.
David Turner said he visited thehospital before life support was
withdrawn.
He wanted to be with Natalie.
He repeated again I, the SummitCounty Attorney's letter had
already cleared both officers ofwrongdoing.

(59:27):
The final paragraph confirmedthat Turner's revolver had
misfired before she was shot.
Quote, Natalie Turner asked theofficers to shoot her, and she
raised the hand gun.
She was over in the generaldirection of the officers and
pulled the trigger.
Turner then aimed the weapondirectly at some of the officers

(59:48):
and pulled the trigger again.
The gun didn't fire.

Stephanie (59:52):
Oh, this is literally tragic.

Dani (59:56):
By late September, both counties had closed their files.
The case was considered over.
But closure on paper didn't easethe grief that stretched between
Ogden Park City and Hailey.
David Turner still insisted hisdaughter had gone to Utah only
to reason with her ex-husband.
Quote, she must have snapped.

(01:00:17):
She did something she shouldn'tdo.
He said,

Stephanie (01:00:22):
I mean, that's, that's as much as he is gonna
say, but.
I think we all know in the end,

Dani (01:00:30):
no one won.
No everyone lost.
Two parents were gone.
Two children were left withquestions cor, and a custody
battle that began in a courtroomended on the side of the
highway.

Stephanie (01:00:44):
No, this is terrible.
All around, like we said.
Don't let it get this ccra.
Like you just can't be wildedout like this.

Dani (01:00:57):
So my takeaway from this, I've, I think Natalie went
there, shot John, then shemessed up.
Mm-hmm.
Threw him in the car.
I, I kind of feel like she mighthave been taking him to the
hospital maybe.

(01:01:18):
And during that, and this is alljust speculation, like right,
this is just, yeah, my thoughtprocess.
But during that ride, John wasfighting with her, right?
Fighting for his life.
He didn't know where he wasgoing.
No, maybe they weren't takinghim for help, but he was
fighting with her walking.

(01:01:38):
And would you

Stephanie (01:01:38):
trust someone that just shot you, even if they
promised you that they were,

Dani (01:01:42):
uh, and he got that gun?
He did shoot her a couple oftimes.
That's fact.
And then Gaylor probably sawNatalie was shot and finally was
like, I'm not driving anymore.
Like, like,

Stephanie (01:01:53):
this has escalated too.

Dani (01:01:54):
I didn't know we were gonna do this.

Stephanie (01:01:56):
Not this

Dani (01:01:57):
crazy.
No, but I'm really surprised.
I really do think it wasdesperate.
Like she didn't care anymore.
She was like, fuck it, shoot me.
Mm-hmm.
Do not, you cannot, like yousaid, can't find a gun.

Stephanie (01:02:08):
No, she, she was, I think that she knew that there
was.
She had reached a point of noreturn.
Yep.
And so doozy, this is liter.
Like all I can keep saying isShakespearean.
Yeah.
Of like

Dani (01:02:25):
it's a lifetime movie That's, I was just, that started
reading.
I'm like, what the, she what?

Stephanie (01:02:34):
Yeah.
So folks, nothing is worth this.
No, it doesn't help anyone.
It hurts everyone.
Try if you can, to keep it civiland don't listen.

Dani (01:02:45):
Don't bring your gun

Stephanie (01:02:46):
to talk.
Yeah.
You're, because if you're

Dani (01:02:49):
saying I'm bringing a gun to just to talk some common
sense and to say, no, you'renot, even

Stephanie (01:02:54):
though, no you're not.
And don't do that.
No bad idea.
All around.
and those poor children, theyare the ultimate victims

Dani (01:03:04):
in this.
Right?
Yeah.
And Natalie's par, I mean, itsounds like Dad was really,
yeah.
She was probably a daddy's girl.
Dad was her.
He's gonna defend her till themm-hmm.
Till the day he, you know, yeah,it's sure.
Messy,

Stephanie (01:03:18):
messy, all around bad folks.
Revenge sounds good on paper,but then this is what really
happens.
So we saw, is all we can say,again, follow us on our socials.
We just so y'all know.

(01:03:38):
We've released some things onFacebook recently that were
released on TikTok like weeksago.
Everyone loves it.
Love that.
You guys love it.
TikTok is the most up to date.
If you're anti TikTok, that'sokay.
Yeah.
You'll see things on Facebook.
You'll be a little late to theparty, but it's okay.
You are still invited.
Yeah, so we still love it, butfashionably late.

(01:04:01):
If you want the most UpToDatesilliness.
Go to the TikTok, email us anyquestions, comments, concerns,
case recommendations, the [e-mail].
Anything else?
Danny?

Dani (01:04:16):
Tell your friends.

Stephanie (01:04:17):
Tell your friends.
Word of mouth.
All right.
Well, ten four river ducky.
Fuck yeah.