Aussie Builder Business Tips: How Todd Murry Grew a Successful Construction Company in Australia

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
There's a very big difference between intelligent
math and the I always thought itwas the same thing, but it's
completely different.
Yeah.
Like you intelligent people arefucking the dumbest people.
You gotta you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
Yeah, you need to wrong, yeah, exactly.
And then I think that's thebiggest thing, it's just there's
not an off-dite and you have abusiness.
Not branding spot, butChristopher's doing people.

SPEAKER_03 (01:51):
Well, that's the D and the R mate coming in.
But that's that's well, I guess.
Like is it business?
Like, is it is the brain notstopping just because of
business?

SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Because I never stopped.

SPEAKER_03 (02:05):
Yeah, not that's some for some people that's
alright.
Like people tell me I'm crazybecause that's the case, but for
me that's freedom.
Like I for me, sitting downsomewhere quietly on my own for
too long will drive me nuts.

(02:25):
G'day guys, welcome back toanother episode of Level Up.
We are back in the shed thisafternoon for another cracking
episode.
Uh, got the big boy with ustoday, uh, Todd Murray from TKM
Building.
How are you, buddy?
I'm pump, mate.
Good to be here.
Mate, I'm stoked to have you.
You're um we've had some prettygood conversations over the past
few years, but your growth andwhere you've come from is pretty

(02:50):
unbelievable.
But uh, I'm gonna kick thepodcast off by saying, like,
you're not what I expected.

SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
I'll take that.
I hope that's a good thing,mate.

SPEAKER_03 (03:01):
Look, it's funny, you talk to people on the phone
stuff, like obviously when youreached out to your um a member
of Live Life Build, yeah.
Um and talking on the phone islike it's just a voice, you
don't really sort of I don'tpicture what people look like,
but then you turned up not long,like it's only like two or three
months after you joined.

(03:21):
I think that you turned up to alive event.
Yeah, and I was like, Holy shit,like you're a big burly bloke,
tats, like that's not what I wasexpecting.

SPEAKER_02 (03:30):
The quiet voice on the phone, mate.

SPEAKER_03 (03:33):
But um, mate, I yeah, who knows where this
conversation will go today.
I think there's a lot to talkabout.
I I really appreciate you guyscoming on and telling your
stories on this podcast becausethat's what inspires other
people to realize that they'renot doing it on their own, like
seems to be the case with a lotof the building industry.

SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
So yeah, I appreciate the opportunity,
mate.
I think spotcasts like this,especially yours, it's sort of
you know open doors for me to Isuppose, you know, one, to join
Live Life Build, um, and sort ofstart that the journey of you
know bettering yourself andyeah, going from there, I
suppose.

SPEAKER_03 (04:07):
So before we get into like the last couple of
years, like take us back.
Like, what's the story?
Where have you come from?
What have you done?

SPEAKER_02 (04:15):
Um well, I've only had my builder's license for I
think it's about five years now.
So before that, wasn't a realtypical straight path
apprenticeship, jump into that.
Um so pretty much I went toWollongong and my Aldi's or with
my mum, actually.
So went there pretty much assoon as dropped out of year 11,
signed myself out of school,much to mum's disgust.

(04:36):
I got home one day with the soiland paperwork.
Um and then not long after that,we moved to Wollongongong and I
jumped into doing um pretty muchlearned how to surf for the
first four months, spent thatthere, and then um worked with
the bloke doing coping aroundpools.
Um, that's sort of my firstintroduction to you know hard
labour.
But my old man's a builder, soI've been on job sites with him,

(04:59):
you know, when I was a kid, umdoing things like that, and then
he ran me, there was an opening,so he offered me an
apprenticeship.
I think I was I think I justturned 19.
So I moved back to Narandra, uhjumped into an apprenticeship
with him and did three yearswith him.
Um he's like we butt heads, likewe're on the job site, and you

(05:23):
know, so but out of work, likewe're really good mates, go
camping together, do that sortof shit, but on the job side, I
think we're just too much alike.
So three years, um, I was threeyears in, and then my brother
kicked off his apprenticeship.
So we're just blowing all thetime, like the three of us.

SPEAKER_03 (05:38):
So you you, your brother, and your own man all on
the work outside.

SPEAKER_02 (05:41):
Yeah, so I was third year when my brother signed up,
he's four years younger.
Um, so that was sort of yeah,you know, fireworks most days.
Um it's pretty prettyinteresting, uh, six months, and
then my old man's just like,fuck, this is enough.
So he ran one of his mates, he'sa concreter.
They were working an hour awaywith a company from Victoria.

(06:01):
Um, so they had an opening.
So I jumped on with those boys,um doing like they were doing
refill concrete works at umtreatment plants and things like
that.
So I jumped on with them, uh,finished my apprenticeship with
those boys, and pretty I just Iloved it.
Like they they were staying atpubs, I was 19, so they lived in
the pubs, they travelled aroundfor work.
So I was like packed up my unitI had and um pretty much hit the

(06:24):
road with them.
The old man rang, he's like,when are you coming back?
So I'm not.
So I stayed with these boys forI would say three or four years.
Travelled around, lived indifferent parts of the country,
like Victoria, mostly Victoria.
Um, lived in some towns downthere, Langatha, Inverloch.
Um, and then Christy moved downwith us.

(06:44):
Oh, I think we're living inInverloch.
So she came down there for sixmonths, ended up working with in
the office on site.
Um, and just got too much.
We wanted to sort of settle downa bit.
So we went back home, moved backhome with the plan to um save
money and go overseas, and weended up having Amelia.
So like 16 years we're stillthere, so and then drifted in,

(07:07):
in out of like chippy work,subcontracting most of the time,
it's pretty much a subject sinceI finished my time.
Went back with my old man andthen jumped on with a building
company uh in Aranja, prettymuch sort of supervising a lot
of their stuff for two or threeyears, and then jumped in to do
um fly and fly out.
So I did that for close to fouryears, I reckon, between

(07:29):
Queensland, Western Australia,and then about two years in
Darwin on the gas plants upthere.
Um, then came back and justreally meant concreting, uh,
form work at home, likebathrooms, carpentry.
In New South Wales, you don't umfor commercial work, you don't
need a licence.
So we did a lot of concretingwork.

SPEAKER_03 (07:47):
What, any any commercial work?

SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
No, don't need a builder's licence for commercial
work in New South Wales.
So we're doing like you know,$200,000,$300,000 jobs with no
builder's licence, mostly forthe council.
Uh so we got it with them, sowe're doing a lot of their like
refurb work and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 (08:01):
So look, you can do structural work with no licence.
But you gotta what you've got tobe licensed, concrete or
carpenter or something.

SPEAKER_02 (08:08):
Like we had a carpenter's ticket, um, but
that's yeah, so no licenceneeded for commercial work.
I think it's slowly changing.
I think it's New South Wales andI think Northern Territory, the
only two states where you don'thave to.
Yeah, right.
Uh so I did that for sort oftwo, three years, built up the
business, had an apprentice, andthen um I did signed up to do

(08:29):
RPL, so recognition of priorlearned, to get my builder's
license and opened the email andpretty much just shit myself
with how much work there was todo that.
I think there was like 70questions of practical, 70 of
like, and there was likemultiple questions inside that.
So I think the government was abit of a rebate for that.
So I think it was 1500 bucks toget your builder's license.

(08:50):
So I signed up thinking it wasgonna be a piece of peace.
Um, they failed me two or threetimes, and then each time they
charged me, like I think it'slike 1500 bucks, I was up to
about six grand.
And Christy's like, if you donot finish this fucking course,
like um, so and saying they'retrying to run a business, two
young kids, like it was just Ijust keep putting on the back
burner, but they kept chargingme money every time the um

(09:11):
expiry date was sort offinished.
So you're trying to do all yourcourse and everything after
hours and nights, and it's yeah,so and then it was just I had
the guys that were running it,they were like they were pretty
shit outfit.
And the guys that I would talkto, I suppose my assessor, um, I
went through three or four.
One tried to extort me, likefive or six grand, to like sign

(10:29):
me off, said he'd fly down if Ipaid this, and I was like, fuck.
And in the end, like he got theass.
It was a long story, but in theend, um uh some people I know
hit me up to do, they went ownerbuilder and then to do their
extension for him.
So we jumped in to do that, andmy last assessor was awesome.
He's like, mate, if you documentthe job, you know, that's pretty
much all you'll need.

(10:50):
So I documented that.
Had a hernia injury just beforethat, so I got all the paperwork
done during that time, yeah, andthen just did the practical
stuff on this job site and gotsigned off then.
Um, I thought it was all doneand dusted, and then like as you
know, like all the steps youhave to, the hurdles you have to
jump through to get your licenseand then your home warranty and
all that.
Um, so then that's where we gotto.

(11:11):
So now, yeah, we got thebuilder's license 2020, I think.
So we did the whole COVID periodlike on that job pretty much,
which was a bit of a blessing,really.
Like um, it was all cost plus,so and yeah, here we are.
I fast forward five years, andum yeah, we've been two
apprentices now.
The first apprentice didn'tlast, I think he did two years

(11:32):
and sort of wasn't for him.
Um I think that's when I joinedsort of Elevate around that
time.
Like he finished up, and thenwe're just in a pretty shitty
space.
Um signed up another apprenticeand sort of went from there, and
he's still with us.
He's just about hit fourth yearnow, and we've got a first year,
and yeah, things are good.

SPEAKER_03 (11:51):
So just um I want to go back uh to your school days
because that like there's a lotof young people that listen to
the podcast, they quite oftenreach out, they're not sure what
they're gonna do when theyfinish school and things.
So um, and I like to open up thecan of worms about like what
what did you drop out in year11?

SPEAKER_02 (12:08):
Um, I just hated it.
Like, school wasn't for me.
Like, I think as you learn thetrade and everything, I suppose
going through school, you'retold that you'll never mount to
anything, you know, like you'restupid pretty much.
Like you'll never go anywhere,you'll end up in jail or
something like that.
Like, you know, I had plenty ofteachers tell me that.

SPEAKER_03 (12:25):
But is it like because I I'm I'm exactly the
same, but like were you notinterested?
Like, my I just couldn't, Iwasn't interested.
Like, I just wanted to beoutside.

SPEAKER_02 (12:34):
No, and I think uh even now, like when I find
things I'm interested in, likeI'm hyper focused on it, where
school um just didn't fit thatbill.
Like, it was just always askedthe question of like where am I
gonna use this?
And it's funny, like, I hear myyounger daughter say the same
thing to me now, so it's um, butI think it's just yeah, the way
I'm building it.

SPEAKER_03 (12:52):
But what do you tell her?

SPEAKER_02 (12:54):
Um, like school's not for everyone, and she asked
me the same thing, like, Well,I'm never gonna use it.
I'm like, No, you're not, butlike it's just part of you know,
get through year 10 and then seewhere you need to go.
And I think she looked down thatroute, like leaving school, like
she really loves beauty, likebeautician sort of stuff, and
yeah, I think if she's notreally implementing herself at
school, then like we would lookat that route.

(13:15):
But whether she did TAFE orsomething like that outside of
school, but yeah, I just thinklike the focus is when you're
not interested in something,like I just I would zone out.
Yeah, I'm even like that withwork, like even when I would say
fly and fly out, like if Ididn't get given a task for that
day, I would just like I'd loseinterest pretty much and just
I'm gone for the day.

SPEAKER_03 (13:35):
But yeah, I just got my uh big dog Walther outside
the shed barking at something.
If you said that, it's not notTodd or I, but anyway.
Um but I I I think like foryounger people that are thinking
about getting into the trade, umlike there is a lot, like there
is heaps of shit that I was justnot interested at all in school.

(13:57):
And even if I was and I had adone well of it, I don't use the
shit now.
No, like as long as you knowyour basic um English grammar,
like that that's one thing Iwish I had to put more time
into.
But like I was I was good atmaths, like obviously you've got
to be good at maths to be atradie.
Yeah, but as long as you're goodat the basics, um, but I think
one thing I just want to stressfor younger people that are

(14:19):
listening, and and maybe olderpeople as well, but um you don't
have to be a straight A or a Bstudent to do well in life or to
be a successful instructionworker, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 (14:29):
I agree 100%.
I think um, yeah, like I saidbefore, like with that school, I
suppose that's the thing you gettold to, start to believe it.
But and then thinking about thatand saying that, like my two
apprentices, um, they both leftyear 10 to start, so they're
quite young.
Um, they're told the same thing.
And the young fella, he's sortof a little bit, he's a bit

(14:50):
shyer, but he sort of talksabout that as well.
And he said, Oh, you know, likehe would beat himself up a lot
about not being smart or likethis and that.
I said, mate, like I wouldn'thave hired you if I didn't think
you're intelligent enough to dothe job.
So I think like they've gotbright futures in the trade,
like they're smart, you know,they're good with their hands,
they can think outside the box.
And I think when you'reinterested in school, like you
can think outside the box, andwhen you get into the workforce,

(15:12):
if you can utilize that, likeyou can go a long way.

SPEAKER_03 (15:14):
There's a very big difference between intelligent
and smart in there.
Yeah, like I always thought itwas the same thing, but it's
completely different.
Yeah, like you can intelligentpeople are fucking the dumbest
people, like it's you know whatI mean?
Like, yeah, I don't know whatyou're saying.

SPEAKER_02 (15:30):
The book book smart, like book smart and yeah, yeah,
book smart and common sensesmart.
Yeah, and it doesn't go real farin the real world,
unfortunately.
Like it's just um and you bumpinto those people a lot.
I don't know how they've got towhere they are, but you know, um
you sort of you meet people likethat, and you just think, how
the fuck did you get into thatposition?

SPEAKER_03 (15:51):
But uh whether it's who they knew or whatever, but I
think everyone everyone plays arole on this planet, I guess.
So everyone's got their ownstrengths and weaknesses, but
I'm the same mate, it blows mymind.
Like you and I'm you like you'reinto your camping, so I'm sure
you've been in this situation.
Like we we've been camping andsome like whether it's with a
group of friends or whatever,and there's been other people

(16:11):
there that we'd we'd don't know,and like I don't know, the
probably the best examples Italk about quite a bit is it
blows my mind that there's grownmen out there that can't start a
fire.
You have a conversation withthem, and they're a they're a
finance broker or a bank manageror an accountant, like they're

(16:32):
very intelligent people, yeah,but they can't survive in the
wilderness for five seconds tosave their life.

SPEAKER_02 (16:38):
Yeah, I don't know if I should say it, but Christy
calls them handy husbands.
She goes, Imagine not having ahandy husband, like just having
to do everything yourself, andthen like the same thing, go
camping and just nothing'sorganised, I don't know what to
do.

SPEAKER_03 (16:53):
Um, that's what it's all about.
But no, I just want to get thatout there because I I think like
I know what I went through, andyou and I have spoken about it,
and I know there's a lot ofpeople that like younger people
that listen to these types ofpodcasts, and if you I guess if
you're going through that andyou're at school and you're
thinking that you're a drop kickor you're not gonna amount to
anything because of some shityour teacher's saying to you, or

(17:13):
or based on the scores and marksyou're getting on your report
card, like it's it reallydoesn't mean anything.

SPEAKER_02 (17:19):
No, no, and I don't think like the mark the test and
everything don't reflect youknow your individual sort of I
suppose talent or what you'regood at.
So I do say to my youngestdaughter, like, you will find
something that you're good at.
Like, I'm not really worriedabout you failing your maths
test or whatever, like chicken,you know, multiply, do all that
sort of stuff, like but thealgebra and all that sort of
stuff.
I said, like, you will findsomething that you're passionate

(17:40):
about.
She's very much like me.
She will find what she'spassionate about, and she'll dig
into that and she'll do reallywell at it.
Yeah.
So I think that's important tosort of find something that you
enjoy doing.
It's hard when you're youngbecause you sort of have to just
take any job to start with, Isuppose.
But after a while, you can sortof find something that you're
passionate about and move intothat area.

SPEAKER_03 (18:00):
The um so to move on a bit, mate, like what what
position were you at?
Like, what made you reach out orand join Elevate?

SPEAKER_02 (18:08):
Um, so like I said, my old man's a builder.
Um, a lot of other builders I'veworked for.
I thought that was my goaleventually to sort of you know
to get my license, be a builder.
You have no clue what'sinvolved.
I think when you're a chippy,you're running jobs and stuff.
Like, you think it's it'll be apiece of cake.
But I think for me, likewatching my old man, um

(18:30):
brilliant carpenter, but likethe business side of things, I
think it's that like thatgeneration as well.
Like no one could really tellyou how to price a job.
Like, I didn't even know what anoverhead was before I joined
Elevate.
Like, we're putting you know12%, 13% on jobs and getting
into the job, like, where thefuck's all the money?
Like, I almost accuse Christy ofhiding it and thinking she's

(18:50):
gonna run away with my cash.
Like, what there's all themoney?
Like, but I think, and I didn'twant to go down that road, I
didn't want to get my license,you know, you know, bash away
for five, ten years, and thenjust think like there's gotta be
a better way.
I sort of always thought fromday one, there has to be a
better way.
And like I said, we're doingthose commercial jobs and things
like that, and we're doing youknow, two, three hundred

(19:10):
thousand dollar jobs.
We're all gonna have no money atthe end of it, and then it
wasn't until you know we reachedout and got you know help and
coaching that we realised likethe overheads were coming out of
my wage, like of what I wascharging and things like that,
where I had no clue about any ofthat stuff.
I think that was like um thething that really pushed me to

(19:31):
reach out, but it wasn't like Ididn't really know where to
turn.
Like, I read a couple of booksand stuff and listened to
podcasts and all that sort ofstuff, and then found your
podcast.
And we're driving down to amate's place, they live eight
hours from us, so I pretty muchI think it was that you only had
eight or nine at the time, so Iwent through all your podcasts
at the time and sort of learnedmore about that.
Um, and then that led intogetting help.
Like, I just yeah, that was thebig thing.

(19:52):
I didn't want to didn't want tostart off just running a shit
show and like learn from day onehow to run a good business
because I had no didn't evenknow like the difference between
building a builder and running abuilding business.
Like they're two differentthings, I think.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (20:07):
It's been massive, like it's been amazing seeing
you growth, but not just yours,like Christy's as well, your
family.
Like you your everything in yourlife's improved dramatically,
hasn't it, in the last threeyears?

SPEAKER_02 (20:17):
Oh, 100%.
Yeah, like from where we were umthree years ago, like I said,
when that the apprentice quit,um we didn't have much work in
the pipeline.
Uh that was sort of I don't needjust joined elevate then.
Um and I'll probably touch on itlater, but it's more like a lot
of the self-belief stories, andlike the same thing, like the

(20:38):
environment you grow up in, theteachers you hear, all the shit
that you have filled or you feelyour head up on, and you start
to believe it after a while.
And then as you go through life,like you sort of start to piece
things together, but you stillhave that self-doubt about what
you can sort of achieve or whatyou can do.

SPEAKER_03 (20:54):
Um well, on top of that, like I know one of the
things that you um spoke to meseveral times about when you're
thinking about signing up waslike you're in a small town, and
I think you might you probablyasked me about 50 times like can
I will this work in a smalltown?
Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
Because it's gonna same thing, like you just told,
like, that won't work you.
You can't do that, people won'tpay you for pre-construction.
This won't like, and it's allbullshit because like that's
what we do now.
Like, we don't do any jobsoutside of pack process.
Um, like we know our numbers,we're making a profit, like it's
it works.
Like it's whether you're in atown of like 5,000, 6,000 people

(21:31):
where we are, or you know, abigger city, like it definitely
works.

SPEAKER_03 (21:36):
100%.
But you've you've improved everyarea, like you're even on bloody
socials now, doing videos ofyour jobs and educating people.
Like you've you've you'vedefinitely implemented
everything.
There's a big difference inthere between people that um and
you've seen it in your time inElevate.
Like, there's a differencebetween people that just sign up
and just sit there behind thescenes to the ones that actually
implement it and sit and get theresults from it.

SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
Yeah, 100%.
And I think you know, like aplan without action just stays a
plan, like just say somethingwritten on a piece of paper
until you actually action it,um, and put your money where
your mouth is, I suppose, andfollow it up.
And like, like there's no twoways to put it, like it's hard,
like the shit's hard, but likeit's hard not doing it as well.
Like, it's still hard notknowing your numbers, it's hard,

(22:19):
like burying your head in thesand, like it's still hard.

SPEAKER_03 (22:21):
So, how how have you found time to make it happen?
Because you're everyone's thesame, like we all everyone says
I got no time, but you've madethe time to make it work.

SPEAKER_02 (22:28):
Um, yeah, scheduling, and I think like
bullshitting myself as well.
Like, I would say I don't havetime, but really it's like,
well, what am I doing with mytime?
So I've same thing, I likeself-educate, I read a lot of
books, and it was more umauditing what like auditing my
time, I suppose, and reflectingon what I'm actually doing with
my time.
And I think like it wasn't untilI spoke to you about scheduling

(22:51):
and stuff like that, and it'slike, what do you do?
What do you use?
And I was using an app, and thenI've jumped on the Google
Calendar now and pretty muchlike uh everything scheduled,
like my morning, like my morningroutine.
I get up, I'd do that, you know,go to the office, do what I have
to do, have breakfast, and thenI think no, and then the time
too, like it was realizing howmuch time I was wasting through,

(23:13):
I suppose, not um what to say,like respecting my own time.
Like, I would give my time to somany people instead of my
family.
It wasn't until the girlsstarted getting older, I'm like,
fuck, like, I'm wasting so muchtime running around after people
that don't really care, and thensort of going, Well, I'm gonna
take that time back and do havethat time for me.
I think the biggest thing waslike business hours and things

(23:35):
like that.
Like, I would take a phone calllike halfway through dinner,
like the phone rings, it's justthat scarcity mindset, like
fuck, I need to take this callto get to work, just things like
that, until I sort of respectedmy own time and value, you gotta
value it.
Value the time, yeah, exactly.
And then putting, I suppose, um,those things in place, and then
blocking out my time for that,and then it's just working on

(23:56):
the business, like going throughthe stuff in Elevate, the 6p
wheel, just blocking out timeand working on what you need to
work on, identifying that um hasbeen massive.
But like in saying all that,like um knowing your numbers and
everything is one thing, likeall these things are great, but
unless you're like you're likeif you're not happy in what

(24:18):
you're doing, like all thatmeans jack shit, really.
Like, it's um like that's what Ifound, like, and that's what I
meant at the beginning.

SPEAKER_03 (24:25):
Like, you like when I first met you, like, holy
shit, like this is this bigburly bloke, and these are like
the more I've got to know you,like you've been very vulnerable
in a lot of the stuff, not justthe in the conversations that
we've had, but within ourcommunity, yeah.
Um, and I've like I don't knowabout you, but for me, that was
a turning point.
Like, it's all good to be aroundother people and get this advice

(24:48):
and knowledge, but until I wastrue to myself and was
vulnerable enough to put my handup and go, fuck, it's me.
Yeah, like I don't understandthis shit.
Like, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_02 (24:57):
Yeah, um hundred percent.
I think like vulnerability ismassive.
Like some of the you know, thevideos I put up in you know, in
the Facebook group, like I'vehad people reach out, and I was
just it got to a point where Ithink like the first 10-15
videos you do, like your shitscared, you don't really want to
sort of say too much, but Ithink you build on that, you get
feedback, and then it was ummate, I don't know, 18 months

(25:20):
in, two years in, like I justdid like I did a video like just
on the spot, like about how muchit sort of changed my life
personally for the better, likebetter father, better husband,
better friend, like better justall around.
And then I sort of laid it allout there, bared my soul, and I
think the feedback from that, Ihad like four or five other
people sort of reach out andsay, Your video, like that was

(25:42):
fucking unreal, and like that'smade me like you know, not pull
the pin, keep working hard atwhat we're doing, like it'll pay
off.
So I think vulnerability ismassive, and then like the doors
that that's opened for me, sortof you know, three years ago,
like I wouldn't have dreamed ofsort of saying these things, you
know, to people, or like just Iwas probably afraid of what
people would say or the judgmentand how that would reflect on

(26:05):
the business and things likethat.

SPEAKER_03 (26:07):
That that sort of thing's big in a small town,
isn't it?
Oh, 100%.
They um like in a small town,you there's not a lot of place
you can hide.

SPEAKER_02 (26:13):
No, no, and it's like you see it, everyone's
there, so like it's exactlythat, there's nowhere to hide,
and it is um, I suppose it likeit kept me, especially doing
socials and things, for a long,long time.
I remember talking to Ameliaabout it like at the very first
live event, and she just deadpanasked me, and she's like, What
are you really afraid of?
And I'm like, I don't know.

(26:33):
I knew they'd be down, it wasjust judgment of other people
and what they and the shit Iwould cop, like from the
concretors and the tradies, andthe yeah um, you know, you sort
of you start to second guessyourself and like will it work?
But you know, we've powered on,keep doing the socials, and like
the feedback we get from oursocials and the inquiry that
that brings in um has justelevated everything to the

(26:56):
clients that we want to work fornow.
I think it attracts a certaintype of client and the people
that we want to work for, andthen that sort of leads into
having the courage to sort ofsay no to jobs that you don't
want to do.
Where before I would have likedropped everything to take those
jobs, fill your pipeline, andyou're there thinking, why the
fuck am I doing this job?

SPEAKER_03 (27:13):
Like education is like power, like not knowledge
is power.
Like the more um like I feel itchanges everything.
Like people don't believe mewhen that, especially when they
like they're doing their callswith me, and I'm talking them
through the overhead calculatorand stuff, and I'm telling them,
like, once you get this, like itwill change everything, it'll
change the way you show up,it'll change the conversation

(27:34):
you have with people, it'llchange the um response you have
to designers, architects, likepotential clients.
But number one, it it willchange your confidence.
Like when you know your numbersand well, all your data in your
business, like knowledge ispower, so that power gives you
confidence that you can say noto the jobs that you're gonna do
your ass on.

(27:55):
And I don't know, like theuniverse gives back what it what
you put out.
Like you, I don't know how itworks, but when you start doing
that, good shit starts comingyour way.

SPEAKER_02 (28:03):
Yeah, I agree 100%, and like when that the penny
does drop, especially with theoverheads and things like that,
like and you do not you know,you see like people talk about
it all the time, like membersinside elevate, um, just in
general, of like I think whenyou do find that confidence to
say no to those jobs, like theydon't even sit right with them.
Like, you know, from the veryfirst phone call, you're like,
this is like I shouldn't eventake this job, yeah.

(28:25):
Just politely decline, but youlike some at the start, you like
you still take it, but after yousort of start to say no a few
times, like exactly what yousaid, like the universe just
works in funny ways and startsto open doors.
And when one thing, like onedoor closes, another one opens,
and the more I've lent intothat, like the more that's
become reality, and like, yeah,it's you sort of can't really

(28:47):
believe like when you do firstjoin up and then I suppose work
through all that, the doors thatthat will open, you know.
Once you sort of start to havethat confidence to do to move
through that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (28:57):
Um like stories is one it's been a big thing for
you, haven't it?
Like, I know you reallystruggled with a lot of old
stories that you were tellingyourself from the way you
brought up and what people aregonna think and that sort of
thing.
But you just mentioned before westart a recording day, we're
talking about accounting andstuff.
And um, can we talk a little bitabout you've just changed to a

(29:18):
company?
Yeah, but you the reason that'staking so long to happen is
because of stories that you weretelling yourself, but you said
that you picked up on your oldaccountant telling her cell
stories, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (29:30):
That's that's funny, like um 100%.
Yeah, so we're a partnership upuntil the end of this financial
year.
And I think even sort of movingthrough the years of Elevate, um
talking to different people.
I spoke to you about it at alive event, um, and it was funny
sort of how it was how it wasmet to a lot of people.
I couldn't really believe thatit was still a partnership, and
they said, Oh, you know, youshould be a company by now for

(29:52):
asset protection, all thesesorts of things.
Um, but we sort of, you know,she's she's a great accountant,
but there was just differentthings about um why we shouldn't
do it, and I wasn't privy to it,like same thing, like it was we
learned our numbers, you know,you know, project management,
all that sort of stuff thatwe've learned over the last few
years.
That sort of financial side, thecompany side wasn't something we

(30:15):
really dug into much.
It was just talked to a fewpeople about it, but everyone
has their own story about movingthrough it.
Um but so we well, she actuallyretired anyway, that accountant.
So we found a new accountant.
Uh she's local, she's about anhour away, which is local to us
where we live.
Um, and she's amazing.
Like, she's young, she's like umall the things I want to talk

(30:37):
about.
Like, I would come to you knowmeetings with the overhead
calculator and like want to runthrough the numbers and like
project the revenue and allthese sorts of things.
Um, where she's like she frothson that, like she loves it.
So it's yeah, it's been a bit ofa matchmade in heaven, and she's
given us different ideas aboutthings that we want to do in the
future and how to structurethose things, um, you know, and

(30:57):
just sort of build like sort ofyou know, future wealth.

SPEAKER_03 (31:00):
But now that you've got a taste of that part, like
how exciting is it?

SPEAKER_02 (31:03):
Oh, it's I I love it's all I do.
I just I read books on realestate and investing and like
what I'm gonna do with my money,and like because I have no super
because I subbed pretty muchfrom the time I finished, and I
you're young, you don't careabout that shit.
Yeah, it wasn't until I went towhat did fly and fly out um that
I actually got some money in mysuper and then sort of the thing
is talking to those people too,like doing fly and fly out,

(31:25):
they're actually making sort ofgood money and start to learn
where to put money and thingslike that.
But I was like, hang on aminute, like I need to sort of
start thinking about my future.
Um, so it wasn't until you know,like I struggled, like when
we're younger, um financiallywith a lot of things, made a lot
of dumb decisions.
It's really sort of only beenthe last I don't know, like
we're not taught, mate.

SPEAKER_03 (31:45):
Like, we don't know we don't they don't talk about
this shit at school.

SPEAKER_02 (31:48):
No, not one bit.
That's ridiculous.
It's funny as I just saidbefore, like I was talking to
one of my mates today, and boththings, like financially
illiterate, like have no clue.
Like, family really didn'treally talk about that stuff
when you're younger.
It wasn't until like we'vegotten older talking about this
stuff more and more, and thepeople that you meet, um, same
thing like he does, he drivescranes in the mine.
So we've he's talking about realestate now and like how to sort

(32:09):
of you know save tax all thesedifferent things that you learn
as you get older.
Um, exactly what you said, likeyou don't get taught these
things in school, it's all selftaught stuff, and um but it's it
it does become addictive, Matt,because it

SPEAKER_03 (32:21):
Like people, until you sort of become a bit privy
to it, it can seem like it's ait's a world away and it's
unachievable.

SPEAKER_02 (32:28):
It feels like a mile away, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (32:29):
Um like it I bang on all the time.
Like you've you've got to talkto people that have done what
you're wanting to do.
Like, and you you really don'thave to earn a a huge amount of
money.
Like someone that's earning like100 grand is a pretty standard
wage these days, really.
Yeah.
Like if you're earning 100grand, there is no reason that
you can't become a propertymulti-millionaire within five to

(32:51):
ten years if you're putting thatmoney with the right people,
investing it in the right placesand setting your structures up
correctly.

SPEAKER_04 (32:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (32:58):
And I'm like, I'm the same as you, mate.
Like, I just froth at sittingdown with the accountant and the
financial advisor, runningthrough the numbers, like just
hearing what's possible.
If if you save this bit here andyou put that bit there, that's
gonna get you to here.
Like, it's just like and thenand then that just makes me want
more and more and more.
Like, and not so I can just haveheaps of money, but my mind just
doesn't stop spinning with likewhatever helping charities,

(33:21):
helping family, like helpingkids.
Like, yeah, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
Yeah, and like the more I've learned too, like, um,
like I love helping people out,like there's you know, a couple
of young tradies back home, youknow, and they notice sort of
what we've learned, what weimplement, how we run our
business, and things like that,and sort of what we expect from
our trades.
Um, and like the things they'veasked me, and like to sort of be
able to share those things withthem, like they're only sort of

(33:45):
you know 25, something likethat, but like asking all these
sorts of questions about likeand they're young, like real
estate and investing, and likewe had nothing like until we
bought our first house when wewere sort of 27, but houses were
cheap.
I think we paid 90 grand for ahouse in Naranja, like yeah, but
over time we've worked on it,we've built it up, you know,
we've struggled to sort of getwhere we where you get to.
Um, but then after a while, likethe more you learn, the more it

(34:08):
snowballs, you know, and then asyou know, like you can start to
grow your equity, you start tolearn more things, how to
structure it right is like a bigthing, like we talked about
before.
Like, I had no idea about anylike any of that sort of stuff,
and how you just structuredifferent things and the things
that you learn and how toimplement can save you like
years of like learning the hardway, and exactly what you sort
of said before, like it's Ithink reaching out to people too

(34:30):
that are doing what you want todo and not listening to people
you know that talk shit becauselike they're not where I want to
be.

SPEAKER_03 (34:37):
So I don't know if you've experienced this, mate.
I I I think you may have becauseof some of the conversations
we've had, but um I wassurrounded for like for a long
time, I was surrounded by familyfriends that if ever like when
those conversations come up, orwhatever, you might have been at
a having dinner with friends ora family function or whatever,

(34:57):
and you like something came upabout investment.
There was always a negative toit, like oh, we can't achieve
that, or we can't do that, orit's right for them, or their
parents are wealthy, or likethere's just always something
that would like bad mouth theconversation or make it feel
like it was out of reach.
Yeah.
Um, but again, that's justbecause the wrong people were in

(35:18):
the room, yeah, and the storiesthey've been told, and yeah, and
it's yeah, I agree 100%.

SPEAKER_02 (35:23):
Like it's the same thing.
Um you start to I just stoptalking about it pretty much
with those sort of groups ofpeople, like still like all the
you know, family, like my familyis not too bad like that.
That's sort of if you want to godo that, do that.
Like, that's good on you, goodfor trying.
But I think once you sort oflearn these things, and I
suppose like you you understandabout yourself, about the

(35:44):
stories that you've been told,the stories that you believe,
and you sort of start to pickyourself apart, you start to do
the work on yourself and learnthese things, like you start to
see it in other people.
And then I think like notjudging them for that, yeah, I
think has been like a big sortof learning curve for me.
Like, I would get frustrated andangry of like, how do you not
understand how do you not seeit?
Like, and I was prettypig-headed like that for a long,

(36:05):
long time.
Like, yeah, I was angry, likeum, I was pretty stubborn,
pretty opinionated.
Um, and like, yeah, it took along, long time of you know,
just I suppose the self-work forthe anger and things like that
to sort of what what are you?

SPEAKER_03 (36:21):
You've done the disc profiling with yeah, what what
were you?

SPEAKER_02 (36:25):
Um ID.

SPEAKER_03 (36:26):
Oh, ID, yeah, yeah.
You're the same as me.

SPEAKER_02 (36:28):
Yeah, so like direct, don't stop, like don't
fuck around, no time for smalltalk, yeah, get shit done.
Yeah, and it's very and Christyis like on the opposite side of
that.

SPEAKER_03 (36:39):
So it's um what was do you know what she is?

SPEAKER_02 (36:41):
No, I don't, but just for what we've learned,
like she's on the bottom side ofthe circle of the yeah, the diss
profile.
Yeah, um, but yeah, like that'sthat was interesting, and it was
like their podcast was attachedto the stuff that um Helen gave
us.
I listened to that and it was umit blew me away.
Like it's like they were justtalking to me, like they pulled
me apart and just went like thisis why, this is how, this is you
know, I was like, all right.

(37:02):
Like I think learning that, umlike just all the personal
development stuff, mate.
I think that we've talked aboutover the years, like even like
the breath work that you dothrough Live Life Build at live
events, like they've beenlife-changing for me, like those
moments.

SPEAKER_03 (37:15):
Um, did you do breath work before you came to
Live Life Build?

SPEAKER_02 (37:19):
No, no.
So the first one I did withJustin, um Kingscliffe.
At Kingscliffe, uh likecompletely changed my life.
Like, I went home, found abreathwork instructor.
Like, went there, went and didprivate breathwork sessions with
them.

SPEAKER_03 (37:30):
Like actually, I think I remember that.
You and you were driving a fairway, weren't you?
Did you?

SPEAKER_02 (37:33):
Yeah, I went an hour, we'll drive an hour to do
it.

SPEAKER_03 (37:35):
Yeah, an hour's not that far, mate.
At least at least at least in anhour, you probably go 100
kilometres.
Like someone well this morningI'd left here in an hour and 15
minutes, I did 19 kilometres.

SPEAKER_02 (37:44):
Oh man, I'll just think like an hour from the
airport to here.
I was like, running wrong turn,I was in the car for an hour and
a half, but but yeah, like thosethings like with Justin.

SPEAKER_03 (37:52):
So what what was the change?
Like for people that don't dobreath work, like what was the
change?

SPEAKER_02 (37:57):
Um I think just I suppose I don't even know how to
explain the breath work.
Like, you sort of I think itjust takes away the chatter and
the like the I don't know whatyou call it, suppose like the
the everyday brain that youhave, and just the the breath
work sort of takes you to aplace of um I suppose more of

(38:19):
your subconscious mind is what Iprobably describe it as.
And just um like I went prettydeep pretty quick on that very
first session.
Um I felt like I left my body,like saw things, heard things,
felt like felt things like itwas like I just lived, like had
a dream on the beach, and thensort of came out of it, and um

(38:40):
like things have been lifted, Isuppose.
Like like um it's hard toexplain, like just things have
been unblocked, I suppose, forme to think clearly and that
sort of started to unfolddifferent things for me and ask
myself questions about that.
So then, like I said, went home,did more breath work, um found I
think it's Johannes, like foundhis stuff on YouTube and just

(39:02):
did breath work at home, did hisonline stuff, and sort of went
down the rabbit hole with that,and then that led to the ice
bars and that sort of stuff, andum good stuff, build a freezer
in the shed, and like just thosethings um have taught me I
suppose like taking that stepback and not being so quick to
judge, so quick to which youknow all helps running a

(39:24):
building business and having afamily and all the pressure that
you have in a daily life, tosort of you know, take that
pause before you react, and theneven now, like I'll you know,
I'll use breath work, you know.
For example, like have anargument with Christy because
we've been in the office for toolong together, and it's just
like I need to get out.

SPEAKER_03 (39:42):
Um, and just little things through the day, like you
know we'll get onto that in aminute because I know that's
been another big win for you aswell.

SPEAKER_02 (39:47):
Yeah, and like just things with Justin, like talking
to Justin about stuff like that,just the five rounds of five,
like has you know, it's beenunreal like to sort of just take
that break and take the gap,especially with two apprentices
and like a bit of breath work,and you can come back and keep
level-headed, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (40:01):
It's so awesome, mate.
That that first one that youcome to in Kingscliffe with
Justin was a pretty powerfulsession, but like he um like
doing those, he did that valueexercise, I think, before that,
where you had to write themdown.
Like that because that that'ssetting you up to to think about
that.

SPEAKER_02 (40:17):
Yeah, it's pretty uncomfortable that whole
weekend, really.
Like it got us well out of ourcomfort zone.
I left I left King Kings umKingscliffe a new man.
Like, I just you sort of onceyou get pushed through that
comfort zone of something thatyou think you would never do,
like from the ice bars to thebreath work and you know,
staring into another man's soulon the beach at six o'clock in
the morning that Justin made usdo with your partner on the

(40:38):
beach, and it's just like fromthose things it sort of grows
and it's um so what made what Iguess you've got to like
everyone's got excuses, and likeyou you had only like I said
before, you'd only been with usseven or eight weeks or
something, I think.
Yeah, but you wouldn't havethree months or something like
that, I think.

SPEAKER_03 (40:58):
Yeah, but you would have only been with us probably
a few weeks when we releasedthat.

SPEAKER_02 (41:03):
So like you you really like jumped in the deeper
and you didn't really knowanything that you hesitated
because like the same thing,it's that the imposter syndrome,
especially like I suppose comingfrom a small town, Instagram and
social media, you see all theshit, you see the big builders,
and you think like you're noteven in that league to even have
the conversation with them.
And it was funny, like Ihesitated for a long time about

(41:24):
even going to Kingscliffebecause of like you sort of see
the people um on Instagram thathave sort of you know had joined
elevated at that stage, like itwas pretty pretty new, like a
small group of builders, whichwas pretty cool, but it was the
same thing just the impostersyndrome of like I'm not even
gonna talk to them, like whywould they talk to me?
That sort of stuff, but then youget there, I thought, fuck it,

(41:44):
I'm gonna go.
Gonna go just what have I got tolose.
Um, and from the minute, justmeeting people like at the
coffee shop, you know, down theroad that you've seen do Friday
wins or whatever, like, and theconversation was just like that
weekend was unbelievable.
Yeah, that sort of and just setme off of like getting really
out of my comfort zone just togo, like, what can't you do?
And it's sort of just you keeppushing, keep pushing, I

(42:07):
suppose, that ceiling, but thenit's those stories of you know
negative talk or self-beliefstart creeping back in.
It's just it's a constantbattle.
Like, even now, like it's stilllike coming here today, it's
like those voices start runningthrough your head, and you're
just like, shh, like, nah, we'redoing it, like, we're going, you
know.

SPEAKER_03 (42:25):
Yeah, here, it's time to smash it out.
Yeah, um, I just mentionedbefore, like um like Christy, so
that was a big goal of yours,wasn't it?
To work in the family business.

SPEAKER_02 (42:38):
Yeah, it was a big goal of mine.
I don't know if it was hers.

SPEAKER_03 (42:42):
Um, but that that's something that's been able to
happen because you understandyour overheads and like she's
getting paid and all that.

SPEAKER_02 (42:48):
Yeah, and 100%.
And like, you know, I've heardyou tell a story before, like,
even with Camille, like, youthink someone's in the office
and you're not paying them, solike you got the jump.
Um, so you sort of, you know,you've got free labour kind of
thing.
But I never even stopped for aminute to think about how that
made her feel or anything likethat, for one.
Like, I think you sort of justexpect it to sort of help out

(43:08):
because you're on the tools allday, you're coming home, you're
smashing out quotes, like,you're not going to bed till 11
o'clock most nights trying to dostuff.
Um, either that or they feelsorry for you, and they've just
um, but that's sort of where itstarted, and then what like she
was sort of doing you know, samething nights and stuff like
that.
But once we sort of learnt aboutoverheads and the overhead

(43:29):
calculator and how to play withthose numbers and sort of
project that out with differentjobs and things like that, of
how we can make that work.
Um, so then she jumped in forone day and she was at the
school, she was doing three daysa week at the school, and she
was doing the canteen, like hertime was pretty, like, pretty
well chewed up, and then doingour stuff on top of that.
So and the frustration, Isuppose, of that, and then

(43:52):
trying to learn that, and butonce we sort of did that and had
like more discussion about it,um, so she's moved into sort of
two days in the office now, andhaving that over her calculator,
you can see, and like knowingfor me, like I could take a pay
cut, like on the third, likeI'll have an office day
Thursday, and knowing that Icould just pay myself less that

(44:12):
day to get her in the office andunderstand that once you get
your head around that and youcan work with that to get her on
board, bring more jobs in, helpwith the admin, that helps me
bring more jobs in, and you canstart to allocate more costs for
that.

SPEAKER_03 (44:25):
And learning that was huge, and then that is huge,
mate, because that so manypeople struggle to get their
head around that.
Like, the overhead calculator isit's a tool to help you
constantly adjust things, yeah.
And like for business growth,um, people question me all the
time and I say every now andthen I'll take a pay cut.
Like, once you can't managethings if you don't know what's
going on, but like you've justsaid, like you took a pay cut.

(44:47):
Like, yeah, when you understandthe data in your business, it's
very easy to go, all right.
Well, I'm just gonna reduce mypay for the time being because
that's gonna cover this overhere, and then that'll help the
business get to this level here,and then I'll be able to pay
myself more over here.

SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
Like, yeah, and it all becomes quite clear of like
the steps you need to take, andthen sort of you can project
those jobs out and think, well,how long is that gonna take?
Once that job sort of startsbringing in more cash flow, then
yeah, we can bring her in foranother day.
And if I still if I'm on a lowerwage for the my two off on my
office day, like that is what itis, until we can sort of build
that up, and just gives you likeit's really gives you a lot of

(45:20):
clarity around sort of what youcan do, um, and sort of you
know, and then that leads intothe conversations of like where
she wants to be, like whetherit's full-time in the office.
I think she killed me if she wasfull-time in the microphone in
the office, but um, she works atthe school three days a week in
the office there, so you know,that's um she loves that, which
is cool.
So we just we make it work, andI think that leads into a lot of

(45:42):
stuff, you know, we've talkedabout before too, of uh, I
suppose like what you want yourcompany to look like, and I
never understood that until sortof recently about building our
business around what I likedoing or what she likes doing,
and things like that.
Like that's only sort of reallysort of come into play the last
sort of six to twelve months ofhighlighting what I want to do,

(46:02):
and it's taken me a while tosort of work out how to
structure the business and liketo be on site because I have two
apprentices, so for me to be onsite three days a week, to be in
the office two days a week, um,and make that balance and stuff,
you know, has been massive.

SPEAKER_03 (46:16):
Like, so how do you make that work?
Because there'll be a lot ofpeople listening.
How do you get the time awayfrom site when you've got a
young team?

SPEAKER_02 (46:22):
Uh it was hard, like Huddo's um his third year and
Blakey's first.
So it's taken, you know, likewe're before um, so the boys
will go to TAFE on Thursday, sothey can do on-site stuff, but I
send them to it's Wagga Tafe, sothey're an hour away.
So it started off just as theirTAFE day, I would make that an
office day.
Um, because and then I was sortof dropping back because you

(46:44):
can't leave them on site for thefirst year, two years.
So it was more knock off a bitearlier, come home, do a few
hours in the office, and thensort of you you build that up.
Um, and I think when you'restarting out, like you just
gotta do the hard yards.
Like, there's no two ways aboutit.
Like, you've got to do the longnights and all that, and then it
was just as we build that up,because it's hard to get trades
where we are too.
So I've sort of made thedecision to build our business

(47:05):
from the ground up with theapprentices and have that
conversation around them stayingon and things like that.
Um, but then it's it grows, Isuppose it's moved into that as
Hudson's progressed into thirdyear, it's given me more time,
giving him, and I think meletting go as well, giving him
more responsibility.

(47:25):
Like he's just doing his firstbathroom now.
Like this.

SPEAKER_03 (47:28):
People learn very quickly.
Well, depending on what type ofperson they are, but a lot of
people learn very quickly whenyou throw them in the deep end.

SPEAKER_02 (47:34):
Yeah, and I had the tendency of like um, you know,
like the old helicopter parent,like, do it this way, do it
this.
And I was like, and I foundmyself like giving him the
answer before like him askedsome questions, I suppose.
So I've sort of learnt, youknow, through elevate through
reading books and things likethat, of how to sort of
structure that and teach him andthen give him more of the rope,

(47:55):
uh more of the reins, and thensort of back off.
And now it's like that has freedup so much more time in the
office, and even now, still,mate, like there's still like
the last two, three months.
Like, we've been going hard inthe office, like it's weekends.
I don't think I've been in theoffice sort of two or three
weekends in a row, but it's justthe season, like it's just jobs
are changing over, there'sthings that we have to do, like
I said, we changed accountants,software, all that sort of

(48:16):
stuff.
Um so it's just scheduling thetime and just doing it, like
even if it is a Saturday or aSunday, like it's not forever,
and just building that, youknow.

SPEAKER_03 (48:25):
Gotta do shit when it's gotta be done, eh?

SPEAKER_02 (48:27):
Yeah, and that's you know, and Christy and I talk
about it all the time.
Like, we're happy to work aSaturday and a Sunday in the
office, you know, if that'sgonna give us, you know, like a
weekend away with the kids ormore time with the kids, and and
the kids understand that too.
Like, they know you know, mumand dad are in the office,
they're doing that so we can goand do other things, and like um
that's been massive.

SPEAKER_03 (48:44):
Just structuring the time, I suppose, and then
getting that that mindset aroundtreating every day the same is
massive.
Yeah, but there's no weekendsand weekdays.
Like every day's the same,whatever day it is, you just
gotta get shit done, whateverneeds to be done.

SPEAKER_02 (48:56):
Yeah, 100%.
And that's I think that's thebiggest thing, is just there's
no off days when you have abusiness.
Like, my brain doesn't stop.
Like Christie reckons, she canhear me thinking while I'm
asleep.

SPEAKER_03 (49:06):
Well, that's the D and the I, mate, coming out.
Yeah, I know, yeah, yeah.
100%.
But that's that's just well, Iguess.
Like, is it business?
Like, is it is your brain notstopping just because of
business?

SPEAKER_01 (49:17):
Because I No, it's never stopped.

SPEAKER_03 (49:19):
Like, it's yeah, and like that's some for some people
that's alright.
Like, people tell me I'm crazybecause that's the case, but for
me, that's freedom.
Like, I for me sitting downsomewhere quietly on my own for
too long will drive me nuts.

SPEAKER_02 (49:34):
Yeah, it's like a holiday on the beach, like it's
just it's good for a couple ofdays, and then I'm like, Yeah,
what are we doing?
Yeah, I need to go do something.
It drives Christy crazy.
Like, we go on holidays, and I'mlike, me and my eldest daughter,
we're quite similar.
We want to go off adventure, youknow, go do this, that, and
Harry and Willow just want tohang by the pool and like just
you two go, like, leave usalone.
Like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (49:53):
Um it's uh mate, it like I said, I'm I'm super proud
of you.
I I I've messaged you a fewtimes and we've had some
conversations.
Like, I just think it's unrealthe effort you've put in and the
growth you've been able to havein uh in whatever it's been the
two and a half, three years, andyeah, three years, yeah.
I can tell like you've just uhyou're currently doing your

(50:14):
first new build, aren't you?
Yeah, correct, yeah.
And that was a massive goal.
Like you like the thing for meis just to see you setting goals
and reaching them, like it'sexciting.
So it must be exciting for youand Christy.

SPEAKER_02 (50:26):
Oh, it's it's amazing, and it's like that was
a huge goal.
Even you know, when I first gotmy license, like that was just
the end goal, move away fromdoing small, and they're not
shitty jobs, they are what theyare.
Like they get you to where youneed to be, but to move into the
new builds and just extensions,and I suppose to be really known
for that, like where we live,and I think you know, through
the content and stuff like that,to show people the other side of

(50:47):
like using a custom builder asopposed to a volume builder,
things like that, have just umit's been huge, but like you
say, mate, those goals like um Ithink you talk about all the
time, like taking your foot offthe gas.
Like, I still remember likepouring the slab and just
sitting there like on thetrailer, like looking at it,
like and I think reflecting andtaking in those moments is like
really important because I thinkif you don't, like the next goal

(51:10):
like is there, and it's like youdon't take the time to sort of
reflect and sort of look back towhere you've been.
Um, and I think that that gapand game mentality, I suppose,
like yeah, getting stuck in thatand not being in the game and
sort of realizing and lookingback to where you've been and
sort of always looking forwardto the next goal, like because
you just it's like you'rechasing the sunset, like it's um
if you don't enjoy it off topic,mate.

SPEAKER_03 (51:33):
Just a question on your slab there.
I'm pretty sure I saw it on yourinsta.
You did you purchase some macrobrackets?

SPEAKER_02 (51:38):
We did, mate, yeah.
I've got that off your um socialmedia actually.
They're pretty good, eh?
Oh mate, they're unreal.

SPEAKER_03 (51:43):
It's actually I um the guys put a heap of a big
load of gear on one of thetrucks yesterday and it was
outside here, and I wasunloading it last night and I
was unloading the marketbrackets.
Like, shit, I'm gonna ask Toddtomorrow if he I'm sure I saw
those macro brackets on hisvideo.

SPEAKER_02 (51:56):
Yeah, mate, they're unbelievable.
Like, even the boys are like,this is unreal.
Like, where'd you get this from?
I said, Oh, I saw it on like youknow, main social media.

SPEAKER_03 (52:02):
Um mate, it's not one of my secrets.
I I saw them on someone else'ssocial media.
We've had them for years now,but they it's they're unreal.
Like, just they make life somuch easier.

SPEAKER_02 (52:09):
And everything, like you know, like my man, like same
thing as a builder.
Like, we did everything from theground up, like back from the
old days, you do the footing,brick it up, put the infill in,
all that like done all thosetypes of slabs, and like it's
just always the pegs, theoutriggers, you know, the elbow
like there's got to be a betterway.
And I looked at other ones, butthey'll just like they're really
expensive.
We're macabre bracket, likethey're really well priced.

(52:30):
Um they last discount on thenext lot of macabre brackets.
But yeah, like they werebrilliant, and like that ground
where we're working is like itis the hardest.
We have to use like a post hole,um, a petrol post hole um driver
driver to get the pegs in.
Like it was but yeah, mate,they're unreal.

SPEAKER_03 (52:50):
Yeah, um off topic, but yeah, they are a good good
thing.
Um, so mate, where where's TKM?
Like, where you're heading?
What's your what's your goals?
Like you I know like well,actually, on top of that, I know
we're going a little bit aroundin circles, but a lot of people
struggle because they think thatthe town they're in or that
where they live this shit's notgonna work.

SPEAKER_04 (53:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (53:12):
Can we I know we touched on it just a little bit
before, but like you've reallyjust smashed that fucking
mentality out of the park,haven't you?

SPEAKER_02 (53:19):
Yeah.
And I think like we talked aboutit before, and it was like it
honestly goes back to thatconversation I had with Amelia
that weekend.
Like, she just hit me with thehard truth of just like what was
I really afraid of?
And it's judgment, I think, likeof other people, the small town,
like it's never been done anyother way.
And I think like you've said ita million times, like the
construction industry is sobroken from design to like

(53:42):
people just don't know what theydon't know, and it's like I
think that's the biggest thing,and it held me back for a long,
long time.
Um, even after that conversationwith Amelia, like I didn't want
to admit it, or like it was hardto sort of I suppose take action
on it.
Um, to do that first post onsocial media and put that up was
like it was cringy, but like itwas like that step, I suppose,

(54:02):
and it was once you post it,it's out there.
Um I suppose it's just it's justthe small town sort of thing.
I've talked to Maddie, um, youknow, from Amst Constructions
about it before.
He's in a small town as well,and it's just it is hard, it's a
hard hurdle to get over.
But I think once you just do itand you just stop really caring
about what people think, um, youknow, and it's like honestly,

(54:26):
mate, like um one probably a bigmoment for me was like um when
my grandmother passed away a fewyears ago.
Like, I thought about thatmoment, and it's sort of helped
me a lot in that about whatpeople sort of think of you, and
sort of watch someone come intothe last years of their life and
like you think about all thosethings that you didn't do
because of what someone wouldsay or what you thought was
gonna happen, or like the worryabout it, yeah.

(54:48):
Um, I think that sort of likehelped me a lot and just biting
the book and just going, I waslike, fuck it, like I don't
really care what they thinkanymore.

SPEAKER_03 (54:56):
Like, so how's the social media work for you?
Because that that's the samething.
Like, a lot of people thinksocial media is not gonna work
in a small town, but you'rehaving success with it.

SPEAKER_02 (55:04):
Yeah, and it's funny, like we we dropped off,
we started pumping the socials,doing a lot of um we do it all
our own, so make all our stuffthrough Canva, just post the
reels and do all that sort ofstuff.
Um and I didn't really payattention to it, but there was a
big uptick in sort of inquiry,and I saw that was just the ebb
and flow of it.
But I have noticed now, likeonce we sort of stopped doing

(55:25):
socials, or like we took sort ofsix months off.
Even my daughter was saying,Dad, like you haven't done
anything for six months, likeyou know, smarten up.
Um, but like once we sort ofstarted doing the content on the
new build, like the inquiriesjust picked right back up, and
it's just um I think we'll talkabout it sort of before we
started, you know, um thepodcast, like just about they're

(55:46):
just like keeping it raw andreal.
I think like people see thatmuch bullshit on social media.
I think they're happy to seesomeone just bang themselves.

SPEAKER_03 (55:55):
Everyone thinks it's gotta be all the fluffed up
pillows, the finished projects.

SPEAKER_02 (55:59):
Yeah, like and we get the most feedback from those
posts, and like it was funny,like once we sort of started
doing that, and like near just asmall town, like we've talked
about that.
We've had like people just inthe street in the supermarket,
like out walking the dog, likemate, like loving your content,
like just you know, it's awesometo see someone just showing
behind the scenes, like just theshit that you don't see, like

(56:19):
yeah, putting insulation in thewalls, like you know, we had
like so much feedback about aninsulation video, like it's
hilarious.
So, but yeah, it's and I thinklike it works, like small town.
Um, I've talked to a few of theboys in the elevator about it.
Like, just do it, like it'syeah, it definitely works.

SPEAKER_03 (56:39):
So, do you do you get in involved in your
community?
Like, do you support anysporting groups or schools?

SPEAKER_02 (56:44):
Yeah, so we like we do um sponsor the local footy
club and netball club and stufflike that.
Um which yeah, we sort of likewe sort of donate as much as we
can.
Like, I'm not really involvedthat much with the footy club.
I did I coach my daughter'sunder 14 uh netball team this
year, which is a bit bitdifferent, but it's but it's a
full circle, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 (57:03):
Like so it is, yeah.
Like you educating yourcommunity on the building work
you're doing and then showing upin signage or at events, yeah.
Like it's just building yourbrand, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (57:13):
Yeah, and it's I think it's massive, like exactly
what you said.
It's not about um it's buildingthe brand and building, I
suppose, the trust.
Um, and I think being real, likeon our social videos and things
like that, just me being who Iam and doing a video, like I
don't change the person I am onsocials compared to the person
you meet at the supermarket.

(57:33):
I think people really resonatewith that.
And I think like, and eventhough being a small town, like
you don't know everybody, butlike people sort of get to know
you through those videos.
So by the time you have thefirst meeting, like they're
talking to you like they'veknown you for yeah, ever anyway.

SPEAKER_03 (57:47):
Let's build a relationship, yeah, and you
don't even know it.

SPEAKER_02 (57:49):
Yeah, it's it's powerful, like it's um it's
helped the business grow.
Like, I think it's funny like tothink back to that uh when we
first changed our um logo andeverything.
I did an online course um with acompany that did the logo, just
a social media, just sort ofbasically learn about Instagram
and things like that.
And she said from day one, she'sjust like, What do you want to

(58:10):
do?
And I'm like, as in what she's abuilding was like, what are the
projects you want to do?
And I said, like new homesextensions.
She said, just talk about that.
She said, if you don't want todo bathrooms, if you don't want
to do this, she said, don't dovideos on that.
She said, Post content aboutwhat you want to do.
And I was like, I don't thinkthat'll work.
That won't work.
And like she was 100% right.
We sort of, once we sort ofstart pushing that, um, I

(58:31):
suppose that the work that youwant to do, you know, the sort
of you know, like we're talkingabout before, the universe just
sort of works in funny ways andsort of starts to open doors and
those jobs start coming up.
And I think it's just the trust.
Like, people see you aroundtown, they see the signage, they
see the socials, um, you startto build that rapport with
people and that trust, and thatjust leads to you know, these
projects that we want to do,like new homes and extensions.

SPEAKER_03 (58:51):
It's mate, it's powerful stuff.
Like, people don't understand.
Like, for anybody out therethat's scrolling through social
media, like you you stop whensomething resonates with you.

SPEAKER_04 (59:01):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (59:01):
And it's the same for people looking for a
builder, like so getting thatpersonal connection or building
that relationship online is likeis a new word of mouth, I think.
Um, and even if people are stillgetting referred the
old-fashioned way, the firstthing they're gonna do once that
conversation's finished is gohome, jump online, see if you've
got an Instagram page and startfollowing you.

(59:22):
Yeah, the um, but every everyonewill have like I think this this
really excites me.
Um, and I think more buildersand tradies need to take
advantage of it, like, orunderstand it.
Every single person will havesomething different that they
see value in.
Yeah, so like every video youdo, like someone might not care

(59:43):
so much about the slab, but liketo them, the insulation is super
important.
And if you're the only builderin your area that's done a video
on insulation, guess who they'regonna reach out to?
That's right.
Like, yeah, so the more videoand the more content you put out
there on every part of thebuild, um, and I've talked about
this before, like you're you'regoing to attract like-minded

(01:00:03):
clients that are coming to youbecause of what you're gonna
deliver, which means they're notgonna question the price as
much.
Yeah, but yeah, I I reallybelieve that these bit these
builders out there and tradiesthat are just showing the
finished product are creatingtheir own problems.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:17):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, and then or no socials at all,
like, and that's you know, we'rethe only builder in town that
does like social media.
Um, you know, and like there'splenty of work, like the guys
have always got work, like theother builders I know in town,
like always have work, but Ithink it's the work that you
want to do, and I think it justlike is exactly what you said,

(01:00:38):
like it leads to that and itattracts those people, um,
attracts the clients that youwant to work with.
You know, I've heard you talkabout before, like, you know,
there's not one client thatwe've worked for that we've had
a falling out with, or like it'syou know, we could go back and
have a barbecue with them, likeyou know, you see me at the pub,
have a beer with them.
Like it's that's the way it sortof works now, like with you
know, all the jobs that we do,because we attract that type of

(01:00:59):
client.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:59):
Like, it's well that's success, isn't it?
Like when you're when you're incontrol of the people you're
working for, like that's that'ssuccess.
Yeah, if you're stuck in thatmindset that you're like as you
said before, your scarcity,you're taking on every phone
call that comes your way, everyinquiry that comes your way,
that's when you're going to takeon jobs just because you think
you have to to keep the cashflow going.
Yeah, they're gonna be theclients that are gonna give you

(01:01:22):
grief, give you a hard time,take a lot of management.
Yeah, um, but also the ones thatare more likely to probably come
back after the job's finishedand complain about defects or
things going wrong becausethere's no personal connection
there.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:36):
No, and like it's funny, like you know, you know,
I'm not like backing at my oldman or anything like that, but
just like hearing him like talkabout that, like shit clients,
like and it's not I don't thinkit's the client's fault.
Like, yes, you know, there'sdifferent personalities that we
like we've learned with Helen,like that you clash with
different people, but I think alot of them, if you're like not

(01:01:56):
explaining a lot of things tothe client and just assuming a
lot of things, like like youdon't know what you don't know,
and I think that leads to somany problems and things like
that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:04):
Like it's um well a lot of people don't create a
environment where the clientsfeel comfortable enough to be
able to ask things, and so thenext thing you know that it's
too late, like something's beendone, installed, purchased,
whatever, differently to whattheir expectations were.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:21):
Because there was no the relationship wasn't there to
be able to educate them or havethe weekly site meetings or give
them a detailed enough proposal.
Like a yeah, as you say,assumptions.
Like a lot of people makeassumptions.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:32):
Yeah.
And I'll and this I'll say thisto clients, even our current
client, like I'm more than happyto explain things ten times.
Like, if I can't explain it in away where you understand it,
like I'll explain it again.
Like until you understand sortof what we're doing or the
choices that you're making, likeonce it's in there, it's too
late.
So I'm more than happy to havethe conversation now and like we
can work it out.
And I think it's been a bigthing too, like communication.

(01:02:54):
Like probably the last six totwelve months, I've really sort
of worked on that, and the waythat I explain things and
describe things and things likethat about um people that aren't
really visual.
Like, yeah, we do it every day.
So like clients are especiallyit's 90% of clients can't really
sort of picture what you want totalk about.
So it's it's definitelycommunication is a big thing,
and yeah, working through that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:15):
Awesome, mate.
Well, um, we'll start to wrap itup.
But for I guess anyone that'slistening or out there that may
be considering going out ontheir own or possibly is having
troubles in their business atthe moment, what what advice you
got for them?

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:27):
Um get some coaching, I think is probably
the first thing.
Just and we were like, I didn'tthink we could afford it.
Um, like and it's it sounds likea big sort of price tag to start
with, but once you sort ofrealize through the coaching,
um, you know, the help that youcan get sort of highlights so

(01:03:48):
many things that you're doingwrong, like that you make that
money back in no time at all,and sort of what that will
highlight.
Um, I think reach out, askquestions, like on people on
social media that you follow,that you look up to, like, ask
them.
There's anyone that's sort ofdoing you know uh stuff that you
want to do, like 90% of the timethey're gonna get back to you
and sort of help you out becausethey're keen to help other

(01:04:09):
people that are keen to learn.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:11):
So the um, like I said, mate, I'm really proud of
you.
I think just keep smashing out.
I'm keen to see where uh whereyou guys end up.
I'm uh we'll be spending a bitof time together in about six or
seven months.
You're coming on the Kakodatrack?

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:24):
I am, mate.
Yep.
I'm uh just started my training,so it's yeah, it's gonna be a
long few months of training, butI'm I'm pumped for it.
I can't wait.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:31):
I'm pretty keen.
We got a really, really goodbunch of guys going.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:35):
So uh it'll be a laugh in between the crying up
and down the hills, but it'll beuh it'll be it'll be a good
time, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:43):
Is that are you like being a D or being very similar
to me in the uh disc profile?
Do you need challenges to havesomething to aim for?

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:51):
Yeah, 100%.
I think I was talking to Helenabout that not long ago.
It was um I would probably setmyself too many challenges, and
I had the conversation withHelen about it, and it was more
like I would set too manychallenges for myself and then
beat myself up that I couldn'tquite achieve those things, and
I like throw it all away andthen like ah fuck like but she
said, Have you ever thoughtabout like maybe um you know the

(01:05:13):
way that you do it and thingslike that?
And it's more I've come up withthe thing now of like creating a
menu for myself, like where Ican just pick things out of that
menu instead of trying to doeverything because I always have
a list and the list just keepsgrowing, you're like fucking we
talked about before, you know,like to reach those goals, like
you want to sort of you knowenjoy it for a minute before the
next one.
But I seem to just keep startingnew projects before we uh

(01:05:34):
explain the menu thing more.
Uh so instead of like I have alist of like say my morning
routine, for example, like getup, you know, I stretch because
like as you get older, like Ineed to stretch more, so I just
uh get moving for the day.
Yeah, I stretch all those thingsI do in the morning.
Like, if I don't do all thosethings before, like if I was
slept in or whatever, like itwould annoy me for the rest of
the day.
But now I just create a menu,like they're a menu instead of a

(01:05:58):
task list.
So if I just get my stretchingdone, cool, like that's one
thing I ticked off for the day,like, and then that's what I
just build on that through theday, and then same thing at
night time.
Like, as I wind out at night,like um if I don't write stuff
down the night before, like I'llgo to bed thinking about it.
Yeah, so now I just you know dothis and I wind down, read my
book.
Like, if I read my book or dowhatever I do, like I'll just

(01:06:19):
pick one or two things insteadof trying to do so many things,
and I found that through likework as well.
Um, Apples has been good forthat, like you know, writing the
list and highlighting what'smost important, and if I can
achieve sort of 80% of the daywith those things, um so that's
yeah, many things like that now,sort of just trying to do it
all.
Um yeah, it's been huge.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:40):
And mate, it just comes back to you, you gotta
find out what works for you, eh?
Like, yeah, 100%.
We're all different, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:45):
And like whether it's personal or business, like
you once you sort of learn thatand try to adapt everything to
suit what you want to do, andthen like you've talked about it
before, like, then that becomessuccess for you, like, which is
different for me, for you.
Like, it's everyone's sort ofidea of success is different,
sort of trying to live up tosomeone else's idea of it, which
I did for a long time, and untilsort of got comfortable on my

(01:07:05):
own skin to sort of know what Iwant to achieve, what I want to
do for my life and my family.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:10):
Um, that's been yeah, you do seem very content,
yeah.
Like the last event we did, youyou seem very just yeah, humble.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:19):
You're happy, mate.
Yeah, and it's like and I thinkwe talked about it before, you
know, like if you're doing allthese things, like making a
million dollars a year, like ifyou're not happy, like what's
the point?
Like but I think just throughthe work I've done, like um,
yeah, but like a lot ofreflecting, a lot of um, you
know, changing the way I thinkabout things, the stories, all

(01:07:40):
that sort of stuff.
Um, letting go of a lot ofthings has yeah, just made me
content.
And I think like finding my ideaof what success is for me and
sort of what I want to achievehas allowed me to let go of so
much baggage, I suppose youwould call it, and just sort of
achieve what I want to achieve.
So I'm I'm happy, mate.
Like, got a good family, got anamazing wife.
Um, shout out to Christy.

(01:08:01):
Like uh, I wouldn't be where Iam without her.
Like, she's yeah, she's she'samazing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:06):
So yeah, no, you are very lucky, mate.
You're a great couple.
It's um it's a pleasure seeingyou when you both rock up to
live life build events, and uhyeah, we love it.
Yeah, definitely super proud ofboth of you and um mate,
appreciate your time taking thetime out to fly up here and come
on the podcast today.
So um appreciate you having me.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:22):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:22):
Um guys, look as always like, share, subscribe,
all the things.
Um, make sure you go toDwaynePierce.com and check out
the merchandise.
Um, if you want to keepsupporting the level up
movement, um, yeah, I'm gonnasee tradies, builders everywhere
in Australia wearing the levelup gear.
So uh um look, as always, ifyou've got questions, if you
want to know something aboutsomething that I do or that I

(01:08:44):
say, um happy to help you outwherever I can.
If you want to come on thepodcast, let us know.
We'll um we'll reach out, we'llhave a conversation.
But um we really appreciate youhelping continue to make this
Australia's number oneconstruction podcast.
We'll see you on the next one.
All right, guys.
I want to introduce you to areally exciting new product that
I believe is going to play amassive role in Australia

(01:09:05):
building healthier homes.
As you all know, I am extremelypassionate about healthy homes
and I'm doing a lot of researchand putting a lot of time and
effort into making sure myconstruction business is leading
the way when it comes tobuilding healthy homes here in
Australia.
We've teamed up with the guysfrom Highwood Timber.
Highwood Timber are pioneeringcondensation management with

(01:09:27):
their high flow ventilated LVLbatten system.
High flow battons give buildersa stronger, straighter, and
smarter way to create aventilated cavity behind
cladding and underneath roofswithout compromising on
structural performance.
While tackling condensation toimprove building health and ease
of insulation, highwood battonsare built to perform.

(01:09:49):
When it comes to dealing withcondensation and ventilation,
high flow battons will help youcreate continuous ventilated
cavities behind all yourcladding and underneath your
roof sheeting.
They reduce condensation riskand support healthier, longer
lasting buildings.
Being an engineered LVL product,they are stronger, straighter,
and more dimensionally stablethan a solid material such as

(01:10:12):
pine.
This helps resist warping,twisting, and shrinkage,
ensuring more consistentinstalls less prone to splitting
than solid timber.
Howwood timber battons areprecisely manufactured, meaning
that your installation will befaster and easier than other
products on the market.
The part that I like the mostabout these batons are they are
H3 treated for long-termprotection against decay and

(01:10:34):
turmoiles.
They use a waterborne H3treatment which reduces
reactivity with membranes andadhesives when compared to LOSP.
These are the exact battens thatyou want to be using on your
homes and your builds if you areconsidering building healthier
homes or passive homes.
Check them out.
Highwood Timber Products.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:55):
Are you ready to build smarter, live better, and
enjoy life?
Then head over tolivelifebuild.com forward slash
elevate to get started.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:02):
Everything discussed during the level up podcast with
me, Dwayne Pierce, is basedsolely on my own personal
experiences and thoseexperiences of my guests.
The information, opinions, andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in

(01:11:25):
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.

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