Building Better: Relationships, Homes, and Mental Health

#149 Anthony Hickey from Two-Tone Constructions shares his journey from struggling carpenter to successful builder, revealing how vulnerability, mental health awareness and building quality above code standards transformed his business. His authentic approach to leadership and relationships has created a thriving Melbourne-based renovation company that builds primarily within his own neighbourhood.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're doing something that I haven't seen
any other builders do, butyou're creating a connection.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
We are all about building great relationships,
and so I've got a young family.
We have no want or need to beleaving Yarraville anytime soon,
so I want to be able to walkdown the street with my head
held high when the neighboursare popping out and I've built
their house.
I don't want to be looking downhoping they don't tell me
they've got a hairline cracksomewhere.
I want them to be looking down,hoping they don't tell me

(00:29):
they've got you know, a hairlinecrack somewhere.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I want them to be, you know, proud and happy to be
seeing me g'day.
Guys, welcome back to anotherepisode of level up.
We are back in the shed foranother cracking episode today,
uh, today's one.
We're going to be talking allabout, uh, mental health,
business development andpersonal development, and today
I've got an awesome guest foryou.
He's a cracking bloke.
He's been a member of ourElevate community for quite a

(00:52):
while now and he's had somemassive improvements.
So big warm welcome to Anthonyfrom Two Tone Constructions.
How are you, buddy?

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, good mate.
Thank you for having me.
I must admit it's a bit of abucket list here being here, so
I really appreciate you havingme on, mate.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
I appreciate you flying all the way out from
Melbourne to have a chat, soit's we're doing a group one
after this.
We got the godfather comingdown from Gympie as well, so
we're all going to have a chat,so that's pretty exciting.
But, um, mate, tell it likebefore we get into the juicy
stuff, like let's go back alittle bit like how, how did it
all start?
How did you get into thebuilding industry?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
uh, yep, so I am one.
What am I?
I'm a third generation, uh,carpenter.
So my grandpa and my dad wereboth carpenters.
Um, ever since you know myfirst memories, I can remember
smelling timber coming off mydad and him in Kaki, and I just
loved it.
I was building tree houses inthe backyard on the apple tree

(01:50):
when I was four or five yearsold, with nails and my old man's
hammer, and I fell in love withit from an early age and I
don't know, deep down I think itis sort of somewhat in my blood
or in my genes.
So from there I obviously wentthrough school, started my
apprenticeship quite soon afterfinishing school and started a

(02:14):
job there with a boss and athird-year apprentice, and I
think I was with them for aboutsix months, still getting paid I
think it was $250 cash, I think.
I asked about seven times whendo I start school?
And it was still coming andcoming.
Um, and, yeah, I mean the firstday I started on that

(02:35):
apprenticeship, or what Ithought was an apprenticeship,
um, I, they had me holding Iknow eight meter wide trusses
with the apprentice on the otherside and demanding me to stand
on the top plate and walk themacross and I was petrified and,
mind you, I was climbing up youknow double story frames in the
new estates in our area when Iwas in primary school, like I

(02:56):
love climbing but holding atruss and trying to stand up at
the same time and you know,years down the track you
actually realize you work wellwhen you're working against each
other.
So it does work.
But I remember scooting on thetop plate and them just giggling
at me whilst berating or hazingme and so, yeah I I ended up
giving up on carpentry, like Ihad a really you know pretty

(03:18):
crap taste in my mouth and I didsome personal training, became
qualified personal trainer.
I was still playing footythroughout those years.
I really enjoyed my football.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
You did pretty well with your football, didn't you?

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Oh, I'm glad you asked.
No, if I was a foot taller anda bag full more talented, I
could have made a really greatcareer out of it.
But I was lucky enough to getinto the VFL, which is the one
under the AFL, and from thereget recruited to play in
Queensland in their state league.
So I was only playing down atRedland Redland Bombers here,

(03:54):
and you know, the universe worksin mysterious ways.
And by being recruited to comeup here, I ended up meeting my
now wife, who was on holiday uphere, and now we have two
beautiful children and, yeah,the rest is history.
But yeah, footy aside, leavingthat apprenticeship was the best
thing I could do, because it'ssort of the way that the

(04:16):
universe has worked.
It's got me to here.
But when I came back fromQueensland with my partner at
the time back from Queenslandwith my partner at the time,
which was Gers, who I've nowmarried I then went to work with
my dad, who was a chippy whoworked for a builder, and I
still wanted to be a carpenter,but I just didn't like the

(04:38):
builder I worked for at the timeand I knew it couldn't be like
that.
I knew that wasn't everyone'sstory.
So, yeah, dad took me on underthe guise of the builder and I
think for my first year I waspretty much sweeping the floor
and watching and being told thatI'm not doing things right.
Even if I was sweeping, Iremember he was telling me to

(05:00):
push, not pull, or vice versa,and I was like the dirt's still
moving, like I'm getting what Ineed to get done.
But dad was one of those andstill is one of those incredible
craftsmen.
He really loved what he did, tothe point I remember we had,
you know, we've got all thesefancy bubbles and lasers now,
you know, to put a door jam inand we had everything there and

(05:24):
we're like it's good to go.
And dad still wouldn't believeit and so he got his plumb bob
out.
He and um, you know, had thatgoing down to be able to measure
off and it's that kind ofquality control and you know
it's a little bit old school butum pride in his work that
thankfully, some listenerswouldn't even know what a plumb
bob is.
Mate yeah, well, if I didn'twork with my old man I don't

(05:44):
think I would have either, butlike he still has all these
chisels from when he was anapprentice Like I'm talking no
more than an inch little snub onit still.
So, yeah, I had some greatyears with dad before the
builder went quiet and then Iwent to another builder.
I went as a third year to acompany called Appetite for

(06:09):
Construction, met them throughthe footy club I was playing at
the time.
The coach's friend was one ofthe directors, and Nick and Ed
there.
They were amazing and that'swhere I really sort of
catapulted into running jobs andreally started to love the
craft.
And you know, I was at secondhalf of my third year
apprenticeship and they, youknow, threw me a set of plans
and said this is your job, lookafter it and give us a call if

(06:29):
you have any questions.
The poor buggers, the poorbuggers.
Thankfully they were paying myphone bill because I just called
them all the time, because Ijust didn't want to excuse the
language, but I didn't want tofuck it up, but it was the best
way and quickest way that Icould learn and grow is, which
is what I'm doing here throwingmyself in the deep end.

(06:50):
So I have so much admiration.
I'm still really great mateswith both of them.
We actually just had we weresubbing for them the last little
while because we had a job thatfell through so we had a hole
to fill, and it's that kind ofrelationship that you create
with great people and, you know,never burn bridges and um, yeah
, so that's sort of where Ilearned, uh, my craft.

(07:12):
And then, yeah, one thing ledto another and I sort of went
out of my own that's awesome,mate.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
There's so much just we could unpack in the in that
what you've just talked aboutfor the last five-10 minutes.
Relationships are everything,hey, in business.
I'm a big believer that youshouldn't burn any bridges.
The fact that you've been ableto go back now and fill a gap
with someone that taught youjust shows how important

(07:39):
relationships are.
Otherwise, you would have to befine or something to keep your
team going for the time being,but going out on your own.
How did you go from that stepfrom being a carpenter to taking
the punt to go and start yourown business?

Speaker 2 (07:59):
I think like a lot of like.
I love the podcast and so it'sactually how I first found out
about Live Life Build, which I'ma part of now and have been for
two years.
But the stories that I hear onhere is very similar to mine,
which is I am and was a greatcarpenter I could run a job, I

(08:20):
could make someone else money,but when I went out and so
initially I went out with abusiness partner, maddy, who was
actually an apprentice at thesame place, maddy and I were
together for a little bit beforehe was moving to Tassie, so
then that was initially underhis license, and then I became

(08:41):
licensed and had my own soledirector of the company.
But I just I didn't know mynumbers and so we have an
incredible rapport andrelationship with all our
clients that we've built, forI'm lucky enough to build,
certainly now predominantlywithin five, no more than eight

(09:03):
Ks from where I live, butthere's seven or eight beautiful
houses around my area that Irenovated that we didn't make
any money on and the only waythat we continued was because I
was still on the tools and Ijust put the extra hours in, and
that's not the client's faultand they obviously want to only

(09:24):
pay well at this period in, andthey obviously want to only pay
well at this period in time.
They just wanted to pay asminimal as possible to get as
much as they can, which iswhat's standard for a lot of
people and me, not knowing mynumbers, if I needed to shave
some money off to get the job, Idid it back then and not
knowing the consequences.
Knowing the consequences, notknowing what an overhead was, um

(09:49):
.
So I learned, yeah, pretty, um,pretty quickly, uh, that I
didn't have a clue what I wasdoing as far as the business
side of things was.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
There's a lot of people out there like I'm, the
same.
I can drive past jobs.
We did in the early days thatthey basically got a free house
yeah like it cost like I paidfor that yeah, yep and um again.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Whether it be like I love my um, self-help, um,
self-help.
What am I trying to say?
I love my audio books toprofessionally and personally
develop myself.
That's my go-to niche, which,again, is what I love about live
life build.
We have mindset coaches.
Everything that we're learningis not only bettering our
business but it starts withbettering ourselves, and so my

(10:34):
mindset and mantra around theseerrors and continued challenges
that we have that pop up runninga business is that we either
win or we learn.
Sometimes the cost of thoselearning is a little bit more
than what you'd like, but I wassort of reflecting on it
yesterday, thinking about whatI'd talk about here.

(10:55):
People go to uni.
They have a huge, hex debt.
They might start their careerand then realize that they don't
like it.
They might start their careerand then realize that they don't
like it.
We theoretically get paid tolearn on site.
Then if we God forbid want togo to become a builder and run a
business, there's still a priceto pay at times and thankfully

(11:17):
I don't want to be going over atthe same time, but sorry,
continuously.
But live life build is an avenuefor people to learn so they
don't have to make the samemistakes that a lot of other
builders have, and certainly forme, if I was able to start some
coaching business coachingearlier, I would have absolutely

(11:37):
had a lot more money in thebank.
But that is the cost of theeducation that I had at the time
, and I'm you know.
I sit here today knowing thatI've never made the same mistake
twice, and so for that it is alearning, and so it also becomes
a win.
And even just that mindset initself has been able to pick me
up off the ground when you thinkyou've finally nailed it and

(11:58):
worked it out.
And then the universe just goesyou've still got a little bit
to learn and throws you one morelittle curveball.
You've just got to have thatmindset to keep on going.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
That's a really good way of thinking about it.
It's all to do with the wordswe use and the stories we tell
ourselves.
That's what life's all about.
If you're telling yourself shitstories all the time, your
life's going to be pretty shitty.
But if you change your wordingand the stories you tell
yourself, who knows what canhappen?
But you're very aware of whatgoes on.

(12:31):
So in our Elevate program andthis is definitely not a sales
pitch, this podcast for Elevate,but we do what we call Friday
wins, and Anthony definitelydoes some of the best Friday
wins, but I always love yourFriday wins You're very aware of
what has either gone on or whatyou're working on, or what you
need to do to improve something,and I think that's something

(12:54):
that a lot of people um, I don'tknow if it's an ownership thing
or responsibility thing.
They don't want to be aware ofit or they choose not to be
aware of it.
I'm not sure.
But I think the fact thatyou're very aware of things has
definitely helped your growth,because you know what you need
to focus on.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
I've been blessed with an incredible family.
My mum is one of.
I'll happily put my hand up andsay I'm a mummy's boy.
I have been throughout my life.
I'm the youngest of three boysand I knew how to play the game
to make sure I got what I wantedand mum knew what she was doing
.
But we just, you know, we loveeach other.

(13:34):
I was her baby, I still am herbaby and you know, I guess,
being around someone who is soempathetic to the nth degree and
would do anything for anyoneelse before they do it for
themselves, that's bled into meand it is a beautiful trait.
Sometimes it comes with itschallenges, in that you may

(13:58):
overthink things and overthinkhow other people are feeling,
and it can affect you, becauseit's sort of, you know, you
start feeling the load of whatthey might be at, might be
taking.
But it's also a bit of asuperpower, because that, uh,
empathy and authenticity towardsother people's challenges means
that you can connect with themand try to help them, um,

(14:18):
without trying to be a rescuer,but you know, it does help me
connect with other people andit's through seeing how my mum's
been able to do it, um, and sogoing to the friday wins.
Um, like I've seen from myfirst video we would have put up
or I would have put up onfacebook to now it's chalk and

(14:40):
cheese.
Like I was a nervous wreck,which is much probably like when
I started this podcast andhopefully I'm warming into it,
but I find it I don't know ifcathartic is the right term, but
to be able to discuss to mylittle camera that I know is
going to all the members how myweek's been.
Sometimes there's incrediblewins that are super exciting and

(15:03):
sometimes the wins just gettingthrough the week that I thought
was going to be hell and we'vegot through to the other side
and I've got another weekendwith my family before I have
another crack.
But I also found, throughrepetition and being open and
vulnerable, that I had othermembers connecting with me and
saying thanks very much for that, because that really, you know,

(15:24):
resonated with me.
And saying thanks very much forthat because that really, you
know, resonated with me.
And, um, it's nice to know thatI'm not the only one going
through those challenges andlike that's why I became a
member of live life build,because I saw someone like
yourself saying that you know,you had a big company, a big
carpentry crew and we're runninga business.
But it was a shit show in yourown words, and sadly, that's

(15:45):
where I was too.
But it was because I didn'tunderstand.
I didn't know how to run abusiness.
And that is my own fault, but Ididn't know where to look.
There was nothing thrown downmy throat that I needed to know.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
I don't know if it's your fault we don't know what we
don't know and if you've spentyour whole schooling and, more
importantly, I guess, the earlydays of your career around other
people that don't know whatthey don't know it's very hard
to break that cycle and that'swhy I just take my hat off to

(16:20):
everybody now that can see thatthere's better opportunities and
better ways to do things.
But probably the biggest thing Itake my hat off to everybody
now that can see that there'sthere's better opportunities and
better ways to do things.
Um, but probably the biggestthing I'd take my hat off to
people like yourself is howvulnerable you are because, um,
like we've talked about onplenty of other podcasts, when
you're vulnerable, shit changes.
Yeah, like, if you're, ifyou're stuck in that old fashion

(16:41):
and and I like, I guess, to goback to the footy like, is it
hard to be vulnerable coming upfrom a sporting background where
you're stuck in that oldfashion?
And I guess to go back to thefooty, is it hard to be
vulnerable coming up from asporting background where you're
around blokes all the time?
I imagine vulnerability isn'tsomething that's talked about in
the bloody change rooms.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, look, it's a good question At the heart of it
, and I don't want to soundarrogant.
I really don't want to soundarrogant.
I really don't want to soundarrogant.
I was lucky enough to bereasonably talented at what I
did, certainly in the clubs thatI played at, and so that
commanded, demanded, gave me abit of respect around the people

(17:18):
that I played with.
I took that as that's how I wason the field.
But off field I didn't play acharacter.
I was who I was and I've alwaysbeen someone who is open and
honest and if I see somethingthat's not right or someone

(17:40):
being downtrodden, I'll look tomake sure that they're all right
.
Someone being downtrodden I'lllook to make sure that they're
all right.
The part of footy that I didn'tenjoy certainly later on, when
it became a bit more of a jobfor me was that whole sort of
bogan.
You know.
We play footy and then we goand get pissed and it's
whoever's you know doing thestupidest things.
I was a kid and that was fun ata certain point, but then I

(18:03):
grew up and I'm not better thananyone else, but I that wasn't
me anymore, and sometimes in afooty culture, that is the
culture, that's just how itstays, and so you get left out
because you're not doing whatthey're doing.
And I was okay with that.
So I'd play footy, have mylittle you know connections that
I have there, and then I'd beout of there, I wouldn't be

(18:24):
hanging around, and so I gotwhat I needed to out of footy,
which was being able to expressmyself physically, um, but I
guess, yeah, the the wholeculture around certain clubs and
you know the negativeconnotations about it.
I didn't need to be around thatand so I just I just removed
myself and just found my peopleagain.

(18:44):
Very aware, mate, you knowwhat's going on.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
I'm getting old.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
I'm nearly 40 now.
So I'm starting to, you know,I'm starting to reflect a little
bit more yeah, but back to thevulnerability thing yes it's not
easy to do like, especially forblokes yeah so why?

Speaker 1 (19:01):
how do you what?
What makes you comfortableenough to be vulnerable with
people?

Speaker 2 (19:05):
uh, there's a few things.
One, it is just who I am.
Um, as a kid, I would like Icouldn't stay at other people's
houses.
In primary school I was.
I'd get homesick as daytime wasbeautiful.
As soon as I got night time, Ifeel violently ill.
I need to get home, which issadly hilarious because it's

(19:26):
happening in my family now aswell.
Like, our kids are the same.
So I couldn't hide that emotion.
That emotion just bubbled outof me.
I didn't have the ability tomask, and so I thought that was
a real weakness of mine.
If someone was abusive to me atschool, whether it be a fight,

(19:47):
an argument, my eyes would wellup, I'd bubble and, like the
emotion came out, fast forward.
You know, 10, 15 years, I'verealized that.
That vulnerability and lack ofbeing able to have a poker face,
if you will, or mask, that ismy strength and that's my

(20:08):
ability to connect with peopleand to answer your question.
How has it come about?
I don't know.
I'm one of three boys.
I've been brought up in anincredible family, a hardworking
family, my mum's side.
We were were all able to chat.
My mum, especially my mum,would be very open.

(20:29):
My dad was quite closed off.
Um as he became a granddad hereally softened um, which is has
been great to see um, but hewas the hard-working dad that
made the money, um, and thenwould come home and it was mum's
job to look after us and then,you know, to keep us three boys
in you know, a private school ora Catholic school, she had to

(20:53):
work as well.
Like it was tough during ourprimary and secondary school
years for our parents and I wasoblivious to it.
I was the youngest of three,still swindling to get whatever
I wanted at Kmart when I washome and, you know, pretending
to be sick.
So I'd have a day off just tospend with mum.
And yeah, since becoming aparent, I'm sort of going off on

(21:13):
a tangent, but since becoming aparent, running a business and
having a mortgage, like I thinkas soon as we had my daughter
Edie, our firstborn, I had likea light bulb moment, just an
incredible more gratitude for myparents and understanding of
how much they sacrificed for us.

(21:33):
And it's sad that it took me tobecome a father to say that, but
like, yeah, they're my guardianangels in a way, like I
wouldn't be who I am withoutthem, so I don't know where it
comes from.
They're my guardian angels, ina way, like I wouldn't be who I
am without them.
So, um, I don't, I don't knowwhere it comes from.
I'm really grateful and, um,perhaps, that I am this way I
wasn't when I was a kid, andit's only through being open and

(21:55):
vulnerable to the right people.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah, um, that I've understood that, uh, it is
something beneficial and thatI'm proud of yeah, well, I guess
what you just said then to theright people, yeah, and it's
like you see a lot ofvulnerability in our community,
in the Elevate community, andI'm super proud of that because
it means that it's a safe spacefor people.
Because you're right, like, ifyou're vulnerable in front of

(22:20):
the wrong people, it can make abad situation a lot worse.
Yeah, absolutely.
So making sure you'resurrounding yourself with the
right people, becausevulnerability is a big thing and
whether it's with our wives,our kids, our people in our
business or whatever like a lotcomes out of being vulnerable.
Yeah, there's a lot of progresson the other side.

(22:43):
Yeah, you've just got to findthat opportunity, I guess, to be
vulnerable in the beginning toallow that progress to come
through yeah, and like our group, uh, my team, um on-site team,
are awesome.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
We've we've got a really good um little thing
going at the moment and uh, we,we, again, through live, life,
build of um, I've learned tocreate a good culture that it's.
There's a lot of differentgamuts and one of them is to
understand what their goals are.
Um, like we sort of workthrough what our team values are
.
What their values are is justum people and feedback.

(23:22):
When I was telling the boys thatI was going to be on your
podcast, the overwhelmingfeedback was to just be yourself
, like the reason, like we did awe call it leading teams in the
footy field where you'd havesomeone sit out the front and
everyone would ask you questionsand let you know how you can
improve things.
And I'd take that into my uhworking role and ask the boys

(23:48):
for constructive criticism andhow I can better myself for the
business.
Um, this was a few months agoand the feedback was just keep
being yourself, just be you like, stick to being you.
And that's pretty powerful andpretty awesome and also great to
have a team that respect me inthat way, and not because I'm

(24:10):
the boss, but because theyrespect me as a person.
So yeah, it was pretty specialand it's pretty easy to do, to
be yourself.
There's only one person doingit, so teams, teams, really
important.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Man.
I know you're, um, like you'repretty proud of your team.
It's something you mentionedquite a bit in your friday wins,
um.
But like, how do you attractlike a lot of people um want to
know how do you attract theright people to work in your
business.
So what have you done sinceyou've started to build that
team?

Speaker 2 (24:38):
uh, I think the first thing for us, and the most
important thing in our hiring,is to work out if they're a good
person, like what their valuesare, more so than their skill
set, especially, maybe, if it'sa specific role, that would be
how you weigh their skill baseup.
But for us it comes down to likedo they have a good moral

(25:01):
compass, are good human beings?
And we can do the rest.
And, and so all our umemployees that we have now of
either uh, known previously insome way or another um, so met
them outside of work before wehired them or um, they've a

(25:21):
couple of them have actuallycome from another local business
who do a lot more volumerenovations in our area, but
it's their methodology versusours, and so they had seen how
we were building, that we weretrying to raise the bar and the
standard of how we build, not tothe NCC, but our standard,
which is above, and that's whatmade them want to come over,

(25:46):
because they want to becomebetter and better themselves as
well as their skills, and so Iguess for me it's been partially
through our loosely call itmarketing, but what I put up on
Instagram, which is just whatwe're doing and how we do it.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
You do for anyone that wants to see some good
marketing stuff, go and checkout anthony's two-tone
construction instagram page,because it made again to come
from where you were um, I don'tknow what, 18 months ago, two
years ago to now two years doingum.
What do you call them?

Speaker 2 (26:19):
you do uh questions that absolutely nobody asked.
I actually need to get back onit.
I've got one that I've filmedbecause someone did ask a
question and it was actually myfather-in-law.
So shout out to Mark andapologies, but it's a ripping
question and I think I answeredabout seven times and the
godfather I kept sending it toour A-team group.
So we've got a group in LiveLife Build where, because we've

(26:41):
got such a great amount ofmembers, we break up into sort
of eight to ten people and thenwe can connect with each other
on like our WhatsApp group.
And I kept sending it overbecause I wanted them to
critique it before I put it, youknow, to the masses of all my
fans.
And Craig the godfather kepthaving, you know, little things
that I might have slightly saidthat could have been tweaked a

(27:02):
bit better, and I think I got tothe seventh one.
I was like, ah, I'm going tocome back to this and then I
just never sent it.
So, um, watch this space, I'llwait until this podcast comes
out maybe?

Speaker 1 (27:12):
yeah, but they're cracking little videos.
I think they're great, mate,like it's.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
You're breaking the ice, you're educating people
like that's um it is great and,like I honestly I wouldn I've
always been a bit cheeky, likein my environment, like
certainly with footy.
I was confident with what I didand that exerted into
everything I did around thatarea.
Um, becoming a builder andlanding flat on your face time

(27:36):
and time again it sort of cutaway at my confidence in that
field.
Um and so like, being onsomething like today was just
terrifying and you know it'd belike I'm about to be found out,
but through, through, uh, beinga part of live life, build,
understanding what otherbuilders in across australia are
doing and the challenges theygo through, and you know how it

(27:58):
is reflective of mine and justcontinually learning and growing
and implementing bit by bit hascreated this confidence in me
in this industry, which is anever-changing industry that
you'd need to keep constantlylearning and growing from.
But yeah, I guess I haven'treally thought of it.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
I do seem to uh, I think they're fantastic.
I um, I haven't.
Like.
I probably need to go back toyour main page and just have a
look at all of them, but anyonethat pops up, I make sure I
check it out multiple times.
It's um.
Like again, it's creating.
You're doing something that Ihaven't seen any other builders
do, but you're creating aconnection, like because people

(28:39):
are going to see that thenthey're gonna go shit.
This bloke's awesome.
Like I want to build with thisbloke because he's got a bit of
sense of humor about him.
Like, and that through thosevideos, you can pick up the type
of person you are and your typepersonality, and I just think
it's great.
Like, more builders need.
That's the separation we needin our industry.
Like, instead of this race tothe, the bottom for cheapest
price, um, which brings me backto you just mentioned before um,

(29:04):
you're building to yourstandard not the ncc and it's
something I'm really passionateabout, and I want more builders
and more tradies as wellprobably more tradies than
anything to understand like weneed to set our own standards.
Don't just like the ncc shouldbe the absolute bare minimum.
Worst case scenario.
Yeah, um, it shouldn't besomething you're trying to

(29:25):
achieve.
So how are you because,obviously, to build your
standard more than likely costmore, yes, how are you selling
that to your clients?

Speaker 2 (29:35):
uh, what's education?
It's purely letting them knowlike.
And our standards, our quality,is top notch.
Our, the guys that work for meare amazing and every time I
have my site meetings, um, andthe clients are wrapped with
things I take minimal to no um,you know credit for it because
they're the team doing it.

(29:56):
Um, our standards is we'rewe're steering clear of uh using
any anti-con blankets.
So our biggest part of ourstandard is our cavity batten
system, um and our wrb.
So you know, I only renovatedmy house just under 10 years ago
and we've got our uh.

(30:19):
I think we mightn't have putfoil wrap on at the time, thank
God, but it was the initial sortof class four.
It might have been a classthree at the time.
Wrb weatherboards on theoutside just nailed straight
through it.
I insulated all the walls, allthe ceilings, but didn't do the
floor because it wasn't a thingat the time.
Like the builds that we diddidn't have the insulation on

(30:41):
the floor required, let alonespecified.
So our standards now is to makesure that we are completely
enclosing the house with areally high quality WRB.
What?
Are you using?
Well, we use Depends.
So we've got Pro Clber.
Um is our number one and if wecan afford to do it on projects

(31:03):
that's what we'll use.
But there are other class forum wrbs out there that are very
high standard um.
We actually have our um.
Rep jack from bowens took usthrough their um store and went
through all the different wrbsthat they've got there and told
us the price point difference.
But what also the difference isin the quality.

(31:25):
So there is still an ability touse a really great class 4 wrb
without having to use proclimate.
But in saying that, proclimateis always our number one go-to.
So between that and our cavitybatten system it means you're
basically giving yourself asecond layer, probably the most

(31:45):
important layer to keep moistureand water out of your house
before any roof or claddingsystem.
So for us, water ingress islike what 80, not 90 of all
issues that builders face.
If we can mitigate that, likebefore, we've even cladded the
house or plastered the house.
Um.
Plus it also helps us speed upthe build because once we've got

(32:06):
a good wrb on top of the roof,theoretically we could be
insulating and plastering insideum.
It's a no-brainer for us.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
What are you using for your cavity battens?

Speaker 2 (32:17):
What timber?
Yeah, so we're still justripping down our pine.
So there's a bit of an argumentbetween do you use treated pine
or normal pine and I've beenlistening, what side of the
fence are you on?
Well, I don't know yet.
We're happy to use currentlywe're happy to use just standard

(32:40):
MGP10, because sometimestreated pine can react to the
cladding that you use on theoutside, and so you don't want
to have that as an issue.
So there's pros and cons toboth and it's a little bit of a
rabbit hole and it's funny as abuilder what we get into and
what rabbit holes we go down.
But what's your uh opinion?
I'd love to know what yours is.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Oh, look nervous I'm no, I'm definitely no expert, I
am.
We're sticking to the treated.
Yeah, so we're ripping down the90 by 19 um rated decking yes,
um, we stick to the treated liketerm out termites terrible up
here.
So to me, that's my number onereason for it, because if

(33:23):
termites can bridge or get inthere somehow, the first thing
they're going to take out isthose battens.
Yeah, but I also use it justlike treated pine stands up a
lot better to moisture and like,theoretically, that's the
cavity where we're trying to umprevent moisture getting into
the building.
So there still is a chance thatthere's going to be moisture

(33:45):
within that area yeah so byusing treated timber, I'm
hopefully mitigating my risk ofany rot or anything in that
timber.
But, um, and then, yeah, likeit's a good, really good point
that you brought up like you dohave to, um, check on the types
of cladding you're using,because, yeah, obviously treated
timber does react, um, withsome claddings.
So there's a lot, there is alot to know with it and I'm

(34:09):
definitely, like I said, I'm noexpert, but I'm really, really
keen and just every day reachingout to people on instagram
asking questions, reaching outsuppliers, like, because, just
like you, that our bare minimumstandard now is the proclimer
app, the cavity batting system,um, I just think it's a
no-brainer like once youunderstand why you're doing it

(34:29):
and how it all works, it's anabsolute no-brainer yeah, and
it's.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
It's interesting because the rabbit holes like
we're going down.
I became a passive housetrained tradesman last year,
which is one of those thingsthat when you start to learn to
that degree of the importance ofjust building better and
healthier, there's so manythings that you can take out of
that that you'll never forget.
Whether or not we'll build apassive house, I'm not sure but

(34:57):
the importance of the WRB andunderstanding how to make an
airtight home, and then theimportance of then, if you are
making an airtight home, to belooking at mechanical
ventilation and how that willmake the home healthier for a
long time for the people who areoccupying it.
It's all that knowledge that isonly going to benefit not only
myself but the clients.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
So how do you sell it to your client?
Because, it does cost more,like that whole system costs
more.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Yeah, so for us to like, as in to sell the air
tightness side of things, orWell just like your process.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
So you're using the better wraps, you're using the
cavity batten system like it'smore material, it it's more
labor, it's more um costs.
So how are you?
Do your clients know thatyou're doing that or how are you
marketing that?

Speaker 2 (35:45):
absolutely so like we were saying, I do post things
on uh instagram.
I don't I'm not really tacticalas such, as it's very sort of
um, uh, off the cuff.
As as far as what we're doingon the job side, I'll just let
people know and maybe try and doa little bit of a laugh or a
funny spin on it.
But in our pre-construction.

(36:06):
So we are at a point now wherewe don't engage any clients or
won't engage with them unlessthey work through our
pre-construction, which is huge.
Again, we're talking.
Two years ago or two and a halfyears ago, I was tendering work
, um, and just cutting anyprofit possible out just to keep

(36:27):
people working, like keep myteam working, and to fast track.
Two years on and like we have,we've currently got our biggest
project, which is about to startin the next week or two.
We have another two projectsgoing on.
We're all throughpre-construction and then we
have I think we're up to six inour pack process at the moment.

(36:48):
That's awesome, mate.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
I'm super proud of you.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, thank you, and I started not believing that
anyone would.
Even why would anyone want topay me to be a part of the
design stage and listen to me?
But that's where we educatethem, so we explain to them how
we build and why we build andthe importance of what we're
doing and the reasons for it,and acknowledging that it does
cost a little bit more.

(37:11):
But the reality is, thelongevity of the home and the
quality of the build means thatit's not a 25 year old
renovation.
This is going to last the testof time for the time that you're
there, because, again, buildingin a local area like we're in
the inner west of melbourne, inyarraville, where this the
biggest project that we've doneto date, which is about to start

(37:34):
, they're two doors down from myhouse, so that'll be the sixth
house that we've renovated on mystreet.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
And the street's not more than 300, maybe 350 metres
long.
Mate, that is a testament toobviously yourself and your
quality.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah, and I think it's also like my team's role
and my role is to not onlycreate an incredible space for
the clients and build anincredible product, but we are
all about building greatrelationships.
And so I've got a young familybeautiful 80, you know age six

(38:15):
and Lenny's three.
We have no want or need to beleaving Yarraville anytime soon,
so I want to be able to walkdown the street with my head
held high.
When the neighbors are poppingout and I've built their house,
I don't want to be looking downhoping they don't tell me
they've got you know a hairlinecrack somewhere.
I want them to be, you know,proud and happy to be seeing me.
And, you know, up to date atthis point we are still there.

(38:38):
That's our goal every time webuild.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
It would be a pretty cool feeling to walk down the
street and have your young kidsgo.
Did you build that house, Daddy?
Yeah, You're awesome.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
My little boy, lenny, is like the apple didn't fall
far from the tree, and itreminds me of me when I was with
my dad at his age.
He comes on site and H&S work,health and safety.
I make sure everything's safeand he's got his boots on and
he's always with me.
But he has to come and see whatwe're up to and where we're at.
So after everyone's outfinished for the day.

(39:11):
The boys love him, he's upthere all the time and they sort
of give him a bit of stick andhe loves it and he'll come on
site see what's going on.
And I can see in him he justwants to be like his dad, which
is what I did, and it's prettyspecial.
It's unreal and I need to bepresent because I sometimes, you

(39:32):
know, with life, things arepressing.
We've got a trade coming, sothis has to be done.
But then, as I'm leaving, knowto get to site.
Lenny is saying something to meand I know if I keep cutting
him and shutting him out, it'sgoing to kill his potential
dream to do what I'm doing or bea part of the industry, um, and
so I'm in a very advantageousposition where-.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
There's that awareness again, mate, you're
just full of awareness.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah Well, thank you.
It is like I'm in anadvantageous position where our
jobs are close to home.
I can help out with drop-offand pick-ups.
I am being the dad that Iwanted to be.
At times I can still slip upand be not present when I need
to be, be on my phone waitingfor an email or something, and

(40:21):
there's always room forimprovement.
But, like we do a lot of inLive Life Build, reflecting back
, like we talk about what asuccessful builder is, and
certainly for us, we'vestruggled on the profit side of
things.
But, um, you know, we use ouroverhead calculator now and,
like everything that we aretracking with our cost tracking,
everything's looking like it'sgetting to where we want to get

(40:43):
to, which is great, but all theother gamuts of it, uh, like
being able to be around for mykids, um, while still juggling a
business, being able to get offthe tools, which I thought was
the be all and end all you like.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
That hasn't been, you haven't all.
That hasn't been a long time,has it since you got off the
tools?

Speaker 2 (41:01):
No no.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Because I know when you first signed up, that was a
big goal of yours.
Yeah, you were struggling withthat transition.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
And you know what's funny.
So I've done that.
I've got an incrediblesupervisor.
We sort of have a supervisor,slash leading hand, slash
foreman.
That's our role, which is whatI did at Appetite and I loved.
So Mark's come on.
Shaki he was my apprentice isnow qualified, he's taking on
more responsibility and so I'vebeen able to step back.

(41:28):
But I was only with the boys.
I think it was last Fridaydigging trenches in the rain, in
the mud.
Actually, I tell a lie, itwasn't raining yet, it was the
week after, so it was dry.
It was hard, I had a whole daythere.
I was meant to come back atlunchtime to relieve my wife so
she could go and do some stuff,but I was having too much fun

(41:49):
and so I had to call it in.
I stayed with the boys and Dougall day, and what it's reminded
me is I still need that.
I still need that sort ofconnection with the team and
being on site, and my enjoymentis doing things with my hands.
That's why I got into building,that's why I became a carpenter
and so, moving forward as we'vegot these jobs starting, my

(42:14):
goal is to spend a day with eachapprentice on each job site.
So we've only got twoapprentices.
One's just about to start,which will be the second.
And yeah, my goal is to helpthe supervisors be able to take
a little bit of pressure offthem so they can be building and
not have to completely holdhands, and so I can then also

(42:34):
train the apprentices how Iwould like to, and I then also
get to be on site with the boysand have a bit of banter.
And how I've been able to dothat is, again, overhead
calculator, and Ryan fromLoxbeck has been a great help.
I've put on VA, so Ryan and Ijob share a VA.

(42:55):
Who does our estimating?

Speaker 1 (42:57):
That's really cool.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
And so estimating for me, computers in general are
something that I'm quite slow at.
Probably should have paid alittle bit more attention at
school, but, alas, I just neededmy login and that's all I
needed at the time, so they'vebeen really helpful.
We've got Jyre out in thePhilippines and he is killing it
and he's so clever, smart, um,he's made a huge difference in

(43:22):
freeing up time for me to beable to do that, so it's funny.
I had this goal of getting offthe tools and then realize that
my happiness was when I wasthere.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, and I think that's that's a really important
point because, like I try andstress to builders or tradies,
like it's, you structure yourbusiness however you like, but
there is a point there whereyou've got to get off the tools
to get the growth.
But ultimately the growthshould be setting your business
up for you to have the role thatsuits you the best, that you're

(43:51):
most efficient at, that youenjoy doing.
Because if you're in a businessand you're not doing what you
enjoy doing, sooner or lateryou're going to lose your
passion and you're going to hateit.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, and that was happening to me because I was
feeling disconnected from myteam because I was in the office
all the time doing proposals.
Then I'd be going out.
I love going to site meetingswith clients.
I love going to meet potentialclients to try and make a
connection.
I'll continue to do that and Iwant to have two days on site.

(44:23):
So that's what I'm now gearingthings toward and, yeah, it's by
putting people in places to dothings more efficiently than me
and more cost effective, so thatI can be more value elsewhere
and bring more value to thecompany, which is pretty cool
I'm playing with it, I'm playingwith it.
I'm playing with the company.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, it's awesome.
I'm super, super proud of you.
I get so much joy.
Out of nearly every memberthat's ever been in Elevate, I
can remember where I was whenthey first reached out or called
me, yeah, or where I made firstcontact with them and it just

(45:04):
yeah, it gives me immense joyjust thinking back to, like holy
shit, like to have thatconversation we had back here
and now, to be able to sit herewith you now and you're rattling
all this business stuff off andit's just fucking awesome.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
It's surreal, isn't it't it?
And I love it Like not to, youknow, take it down a dark path,
but I became, uh, I started withLaunchpad because it was my
last ditch attempt.
I kept, you know, makingmistakes, fumbling, losing money
.
I'm a catastrophizer at thebest of times so, like you know,
when one bill comes in, I thinkI'm going to lose the house and

(45:37):
it's, you know, it's rewiringmy brain there and it's like a
muscle you go to the gym as youkeep doing it, you get stronger
and more resilient.
But yeah, starting withLaunchpad, there was a huge
amount of aha moments and youknow I'm so blessed to have
continued on with Elevate.
The reason that I knew I had todo something was I had a dear

(46:02):
friend of mine who became aregistered builder.
When I became a registeredbuilder, about the same time,
and so, as we initially startedpicking up work, one of us would
be busy and the other onewouldn't, so we'd chop and
change and help each other outlabor-wise.
When I first had my first job,that's where I first was
introduced into the feelings ofanxiety and overwhelm.

(46:22):
Prior to then, I don't know howI did it, but, other than being
nervous for oral presentationat school.
I was pretty chilled andeverything sort of just fell
into place.
The universe just worked for me.
And then, all of a sudden, myfirst job.
I had a client who was overseaswhile we were renovating their
laundry and bathroom and I wasgetting phone calls and emails

(46:44):
like at three or four in themorning and apologies.
I didn't know the time framedifference, even though they
were born in Melbourne.
So, anywho, I was triggered, Ithought I had to reply then and
there, and I remember just notsleeping for a few days, not
eating.
I thought I'd fried my brainbecause I'd never experienced
anything like that before, andso I went through a huge amount

(47:04):
of again we talk aboutvulnerability and being open.
I couldn't bottle that up andhide it from anyone.
It was written on my forehead.
I was struggling.
Within a day or two I'd seen adoctor to get a referral to see
a psychologist.
The first psychologist was alot about the science behind it

(47:25):
and that didn't really connectwith me.
And the second psychologist Isaw was like a mom, like you
know, warm, loving, caring, andso I connected, of course, and
Sandra's been my psychologistfor the best part of nearly 10
years now and she's beenincredible.
She doesn't want to see meanymore, and so I just keep

(47:46):
peppering her because I like togo and get a tune-up.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
I was just going to say.
I think one thing that I've gotout of you is we've got to
treat ourselves just like we doour cars.
Don't go and see a psychologistjust when you're in the bad
moment.
Go and get a tune-up.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah, get a what do we call it?
A mental health net positive.
So you know, while things aregood, that's when you can work
on stuff that you wouldn'tusually.
Yeah, but going back to the carside, I'm terrible at looking
after my car, so that doesn'treally work for me.
I couldn't tell you the lasttime I've checked my oil or
water.
But, yeah, so that's been agreat journey for me and it's

(48:23):
been like a grind initially, butwhat I thought was the thing
that was going to break me waswhere I've drawn the greatest
strength from, and it's from apoint from there is where I
really grew into the person I am, because up until then I hadn't
trained that, I'd never had agreat deal of.
I guess I didn't haveresilience in that field, in the

(48:52):
mental health side of things,because I'd never been truly
challenged in that way whereeverything was going to land on
me and it was me that wasresponsible.
And so, thankfully, throughbeing vulnerable, I was going to
land on me and it was me, youknow, that was responsible, and
so, thankfully, through beingvulnerable, I was able to seek
help, and this builder mate ofmine he had some struggles also
through his first job, and I wastrying to be a voice of reason

(49:13):
for him and, you know, be an earto lend, or however you say it,
and, um, unfortunately, he tookhis own life on the job site.
Sorry to hear that, mate yeah,um, and so having that be the
case and feeling like I'd triedmy best to help navigate it with
him and point him in the rightdirection, it just showed me how

(49:37):
dark it can get for some people.
And so trying to reach out andactually better myself through
the business side of things wasa no-brainer for me because I
needed to try every avenuebefore I just called it quits
and didn't do it anymore becauseit was a huge risk that, like I

(49:58):
was taking, considering I wasgoing blind into it, I didn't
actually know how, because itwas a huge risk that, like I was
taking, considering I was goingblind into it.
I didn't actually know how torun a business.
I knew how to build but not runa business.
And you know I have anincredible network of friends
and family.
Like my wife is my biggest rockand my biggest supporter,
obviously my parents, my uncleBill, which I think I've spoken
a fair bit on my videos, likehe's he's been a footy mentor, a

(50:19):
business mentor.
He's just a incredible humanbeing and I've had all these
people to lean on um during myhardest times and really open up
and let know what's going on.
And I'm not sure I'm not sureif damo had the personality um
to be able to do that, and so itbottled up a bit more in into
him and um it's a hard like.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
The construction industry is a hard industry.
Yeah, like really, um, I had ameeting with the guys from tx
yesterday and they're runningthrough some stats of um, the
people that are reaching out tothem and like the trades that
they come from and theindustries and all those types
of things, and the constructionindustry is right up at the top
and, uh, it was actually, andcarpenters were number one.

(51:02):
Yeah, um, so it's it.
Just, it shouldn't be like that.
Like we, we need to supporteach other and again I think it
comes back to it's a bloke thing.
Like you, you feel like you've,you're a big boy, you've a girl
, you've, you've stepped out,you've started your own business
.
Like you, you should be fine,like it's.

(51:23):
It's like it's hard to, I guess, figure out that it's not your
fault that you're not doing welland it's okay to ask questions
or it's okay to reach out toother people in the industry.
Or it's okay to reach out tolike the likes of tx and that's
those sorts of people like it'sagain, if you don to other
people in the industry.
Or it's okay to reach out tothe likes of T-Acts and those
sorts of people.
It's again, you don't know whatyou don't know and, as you

(51:44):
found out, it can happen on yourvery first job.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, yeah, and like Damo, my mate, we've got his
initials on the back of all oursinglets and tops.
That was a conscious decision Imade, like straight away, um,
because every time I wear atwo-tone top he's with me.
It also gives um my team, anunderstanding that it's okay to

(52:10):
not be okay, um, to be able tofeel like.
For me, it's very important tocreate a culture and a space
where they feel like they canlet me know what's going on, um,
and if they need to take timeoff or anything, or if they want
to just chew the fat, like,whether they like it or not, I I
go through so many scenariosand you know I'm an oversharer

(52:31):
and I'm talking to them knowingthat as a, as the business owner
am, I meant to be talking toyou like this and talking about
this, but but it's who I am andlike it lands with them well.
And yeah, it is such animportant and it's not only men
like life's tough in general andpeople just need to be able to
let other people get things offtheir chest.

(52:54):
And also, people need to givepeople grace, because you never
know what someone else is goingthrough and you know we're quick
to judge and take.
You know we feel like upset orsomeone's judged us a certain
way, but there could be amillion and one different
reasons how they got to that.
And yeah, just everybody, loveeverybody.

(53:15):
That's a pretty good way to go.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yeah Well, you can't make it personal.
Like people aren't.
Like I do find it hard, evenwith, uh, like employees taking
days off and those types ofthings.
Like it's it's not alwaysbecause they're they're sick or
they're not feeling well.
Like you never know whetherthere's been an argument in
their relationship or they couldbe under like financial

(53:39):
pressure.
Like you just never know whatthere's been an argument in
their relationship or they couldbe under financial pressure.
You just never know what'sgoing on with someone.
I'm pretty calm these days Iwasn't in the early days but I
don't want to go off at someoneor put someone in an even worse
mood.
That's going to push them overthe edge.
I'm probably similar to you,mate.
I do tend to overshare andprobably try and step in a bit

(54:05):
too much here and there.
But I I want to make sure myteam on site is is in, like
coming to work and enjoyingtheir work.
Like, if they are havingpressures at home, financially
or relationship wise, whateverideally I'd like work to be the
place where they come to, tofeel relaxed and comfortable and
the team can support them.
And it's not always easy, youwould know.
As a business owner, it'sprobably the hardest thing of

(54:28):
running a business is trying tokeep everybody on site.
The cogs turn it all the time.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
We've been very lucky to do a disc profile recently
to sort of understand you knowwhere my personality is, and
then it made me understandpotentially where some of the
guys in our team um theirpersonalities lie and um, it's
always, it's a constant juggle.
You know, being a parent, beinga husband and being a business
owner, like you do feel like attimes you're barely keeping the

(54:58):
balls up, um, but you know youjust got to try your best and
make sure you try to keep thoseconversations going and um, like
for me, like you were sayingbefore me, trying to get a few
days back on the work side isbecause if I um schedule things
correctly when I'm on site,theoretically my phone doesn't

(55:19):
have to be right there with me,which you know.
If I'm of late, like I'm therebut I'm not there because I'm
sending an email for somethingwhen we were just digging and
we're digging all day orwhatever we're doing on site, I
just get in the zone, you getinto that flow state and you
just you know it's everyoneworking towards a common goal
and there's just a energy aboutit that is, you know, contagious

(55:42):
and I love it.
So, um, hopefully me doing abit more with the boys like they
already have it, but I feellike I'm, I must be, you know,
the greatest of energies forthem.
So when I'm there I really tryand lift spirits and you know a
bit of kumbaya and um, just havea bit of fun at my, my expense,
and then they realize that I'man idiot and I reckon your job

(56:03):
sites would be fun, mate.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Just going by the stuff you put out on your
instagram would be be prettycool.
It's um mate, how like I guesswhat's some advice for people
that are thinking about startingtheir own business, like going
from your experience yeah, um,definitely seek some
professional help as far ascoaching, and god who knows if

(56:24):
you're struggling, seekprofessional help anyway.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
Um, for me, my business has changed and I
personally have changed throughgetting coaching.
Um, it was all, it was all partof me, um, but it's opened
doors and opened things up in meand given me the confidence to
shine in certain areas thatprobably lay dormant or, you
know, was suppressed by having afew years of we'll call it bad

(56:50):
luck in the building industry.
It's number one is just, yeah,educate yourself and look after
yourself as well, becausefitness is a big part of my life
and certainly helps my mentalside.
So, you know, I've got a, I'vegot a list as long as my arm in
my mental toolbox of you know,if I start to feel anxious and

(57:12):
overwhelmed, number one thingthat I do is go for a run.
The endorphins I get after arun makes whatever overwhelm I
have, you know, at leastdiminished by 50%.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Can we talk about that for a minute?
Yeah, Having that well you saidlike a toolbox to deal with
that, because anxiety is huge.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Yeah, look at me now.
I'm comfy as I might take yourseat in a second, but you would
have known when I came on here.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
I thought I was going to vomit when I first sat down,
so yeah, well, I definitely youcouldn't have picked that, but
like so you, you said beforethat you, um, when you first
experienced anxiety, you, youdidn't know what it was yeah you
thought you were throwing yourbrain.
So yeah, what?
Talk us through that, because Ifeel like a lot of people are
probably dealing with anxietyand they're not quite sure what
it is.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah, so for me it was just the I don't know
incessant is that the right term?
I just had voices in my headand they were all negative about
not being able to.
So a bit of context.
The job it was a bathroomlaundry reno.
I climbed under the brickveneer home and thought I got to

(58:20):
where the bathroom was and thiswas.
I was doing pre-constructionwhen I didn't even know what
pre-construction was.
It was just to price it up andI thought I got to where the
bathroom was, I saw someplumbing pipes and I was like
beautiful, it's a suspended.
You know, we had a subfloorunder there.
When we started the demo werealized that it was a concrete
slab and it was infill.
So I'd never done, uh, I'dnever moved plumbing or had the

(58:41):
plumbers move plumbing in a slab.
So I thought it was going tonot be possible.
And, um, the world was ending.
My plumber came, you know, thenext day and told me that it's
all doable and this will be fine, it's a little bit slower, it
won't be too much more.
But my brain was still tellingme that I can't finish this like
.
This is my first job and I'veruined everything.
I'm going to lose the house,and it didn't matter what anyone

(59:03):
told me, I wouldn't calm down.
I was still getting chased by atiger and I'd never had that
before.
Like a pretty rational personat most times, and I'm able to
listen to people, and none of itwas landing.
And that's when I knew therewas a problem.
And and I'm not a terriblesleeper, I'm the opposite, I'm
an incredible sleeper, much tothe detriment of my poor wife

(59:26):
wanting to watch a show on thecouch, because I'll be snoring,
and I learned that from dad butI wasn't able to sleep for
probably two and a half days ortwo days in a row, um, for
probably two and a half days ortwo days in a row, um, and on
the third days, when I went andsaw a doctor, um, I didn't eat,
uh, and it just it steamrolledreally quickly for me, which, in
hindsight, is a great thingbecause I had to action it

(59:48):
straight away.
It was not feasible for me tokeep going down that route, or
else I would have yeah, I wouldhave lost my marbles big time.
So that's what it was for me.
Now, how it sort of bubbles up,I can start to feel that sense
of overwhelm or lack of control,and usually it's when I'm
projecting into the future whatifs.

(01:00:10):
And for me, when I startgetting into that headspace, I
start getting into thatheadspace.
I tend to start to work on mymental toolbox.
So, whether it be not havingany beers during the week,
sometimes if the footy for us inthe AFL they're playing footy
on Thursday nights now, so itseems to be an excuse to start

(01:00:31):
drinking a day earlier.
But I know if I'm starting tobe overwhelmed, the booze
completely goes.
I start eating healthier and mybig one is just exercise, like
I need to get that energy, thattension out of my body.
And for me, yeah, running hasbeen incredible, to the point
where you know I've done itenough and dealt with anxiety

(01:00:51):
enough.
I've ran a few marathons andit's a big part of my life, yeah
.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
I think it's important to speak about that
sort of stuff because on a dailybasis, like I don't even know,
we've got a few members in ourteam that I know deal with bad
anxiety and they um, I know theydon't have steps in place to
deal with it and you can seethem through the day just get
worse and worse and worse, andI'd it always worries me, but
they take that home.

(01:01:18):
So, yeah, I'm really gratefulfor you to speak about that,
mate, and put it out there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
No, mate, it's super important and that's only been,
you know, sort of by fumblingthrough and obviously seeking
help with the psychologists thatthey give you ideas and then
it's what you put in practiceand what is something that you
see value in.
I guess it's like we're talkingto a client, but what I enjoy

(01:01:44):
most now in the Live Life Buildfield is there's people that are
coming in, like where I waswhen I first started and I never
visualized myself as anyonedifferent and I'm not any
different to any of the guys andgirls that are in live life
build.
But for people to reach out tome, um, for advice and then let

(01:02:07):
me know how they're going,that's huge.
Now, like for me to be any kindof leader to these guys who are
also builders and, um feel likethey're comfortable enough to
ask me for assistance or opinion.
That's awesome.
That's a really humbling sortof feeling and I'm really

(01:02:27):
grateful that that happens.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Well, you've put in the effort, you've implemented
things.
Consistency, I think, is amassive thing and you've
definitely been consistent, Ithink is a massive thing.
And, like you've definitelybeen consistent, like you show
up all the time, um, and I thinkthat's that's something that
gets overlooked like you've gotto be consistent, you've got to
implement what you're learningand you've done both and that's
now showing because, um, you'vebecome a leader.

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
yeah, like people look up to you thank you, um I
again going back to footy.
I was an incredible leader.
I should have been captain afew times and I was pipped and
was just vice captain at redlandover here, but um no, it's,
it's, it's great.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
I do you think sports helps you become who you are
now in your business?

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
100 um, so that, and being the youngest boy of three,
nothing was given to me exceptfrom mum, but on like playing
cricket or footy my brothers.
I was a young little turd.
They didn't want to be given itto me, so I had to get the ball
off them, and that put me insuch good stead for playing
bigger bodies from a young age.

(01:03:32):
I forgot the question now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
How did footy help you?
Has footy helped you becomebetter in business.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Absolutely yeah.
So it's the part ofunderstanding.
On a physical aspect, if I pushharder than the other person at
some point they'll break beforeme, because I knew that I'd
done the reps.
So pre-season training, duringtraining, so we'd train two
nights a week, three nights aweek.
If it was in the higher levelsand I would go for I'd get there

(01:04:03):
early and go for a runbeforehand, and so mentally I
knew that whatever they did thatday, I'd done more.
And so when that came out ontothe footy field I knew that
regardless of how skillful andhow talented the person that I
was playing against was, I Iknew I could outgrind him.
So I'd be running as hard as Icould in the first quarter as I

(01:04:23):
was in the last quarter, andthat mentality has helped with
business.
In the sense that, andcertainly in Live Life Build,
it's overwhelming how muchinformation and knowledge there
is in the platform.
But if you just incrementallyjust work on little bits that
you need in your business andthere's always things you can
sharpen I just, when we do the6P wheel, I just worked on the

(01:04:46):
things that were glaringlyobvious and then, once that was
starting to look better, Iworked on the next one.
But as long as I kept workingon things, I knew it was
progressively getting better andI learned that through sport,
like just hard work pays offyeah, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
Well, I'm gonna wrap it up on that mate that landed
well didn't that mate.
You, yeah, look, I'm, I'm superproud of you.
You deserve everything.
You're achieving you, um,you're putting the hard work,
you're consistent, you show up,you, you take an ownership.
Like I just think the world'syour oyster mate.
Like, just keep smashing it out, so um, thank you thanks for
having me.
No, it's been a pleasure, mate.

(01:05:22):
I was like, seriously, I could,we could keep talking for hours
, but um, look guys, thanks forlistening.
Um, it's been another crackingpodcast.
So make sure you like, share,subscribe all those things so
that we can continue to makethis australia's number one
construction podcast.
Um, stay tuned, we'll see youon the next one.
Are Are you ready to buildsmarter?

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
live better and enjoy life.
Then head over tolivelikebuildcom forward slash
elevate to get started.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Everything discussed during the Level Up podcast with
me, dwayne Pearce, is basedsolely on my own personal
experiences and thoseexperiences of my guests.
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in

(01:06:17):
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.