Don't Lay S*!t Bricks - 42 Years in the Industry. - The "Level Up" with Duayne Pearce Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
cross a generation gap.
It's a piece of cake.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
I believe productivity right now, in 2025,
is way less than it was fiveyears ago, 10 years ago, 15
years ago.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
As long as the boss man has taught them properly,
that kid will remember something.
But if that kid hasn't beentaught properly one day, he's
going to teach someone else andhe's actually not going to teach
him right.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
There's so many people just not caring.
The construction industry isn'tjust about the buildings we
build.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
And there's one thing I do regret and I never asked
him.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
The thing is, you don't know what you don't know A
much lower standard of work towhat we were 20 years ago.
That will never happen again.
This industry is changingrapidly and you aim to be the
best at what you're doing.
You will be very successful.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
The recipe is actually pretty easy, but no
one's doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
G'day guys.
Welcome back to another episodeof Level Up.
We are back in the shed thisafternoon for an absolute
cracking episode.
Been trying to get this guy onfor a little while.
I've never actually met himbefore, but I've heard a lot
about him.
I think he's one of the bestbrickies in Australia.
From what I've heard Today,we've got for you Andrew Hoskins

(01:20):
.
He's 58 years old.
He's been a brickie for 42years, worked for himself for 30
.
But he's also one of the judgesin the World Skills, which I
definitely want to learn moreabout.
And you also do a lot of workwith taste.
So, mate, thanks for coming onboard today and having a chat.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Mate, my pleasure, dwayne, thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Really good.
It's a pleasure to be here,really good.
I love the topic of Bricklandand we've got to make it better
and we've got to actuallyencourage young people to do the
trade, definitely.
So this is a mission that comesfrom an old fart Now my years

(02:01):
in the trade.
I used to sit in the smoko room, duane, and in the 80s it was
like um, you know, be quiet,don't say anything, you'll be.
You can talk when you're toldto talk, but these days, no, I
sit in the smoko room, isprobably the oldest guy in the
smoko room, but I love all thedifferent trades and, in
particular, the young guys whoare interested in bricklaying

(02:26):
and just construction across theboard.
I find it important, dwayne, Inever take away from anything to
do with tertiary educationSuper important.
A country has to go forward,but let's not forget about
vocational training.
All right, that's the kicker,because we work hard and, as a

(02:51):
general rule, we're reallyproductive.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, mate, you're obviously doing something well,
mate, because you're a very fitand healthy-looking bricklayer.
Like most bricklayers you meetare hunched over, they're all
buggered up, they're worn outLike what's the secret.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well, you're exactly right, dwayne, what you say.
I've always been pretty talland pretty lean.
My old boss, like I said, heactually said to me you're too
tall to be a bricklayer, you'regoing to do your back in.
One thing that I could say toyoung guys I know that
bricklaying is a piece right.
So there's so many bricksyou've got to get laid a day to

(03:30):
cover your costs, to run at aprofit and to advance in the
trade.
But what I've always done is Idon't want to burn myself out.
So I actually pace myself andas I'm getting older, I can
still put a big day in if I wantto myself, and as I'm getting
older, I can still put a big dayin if I want to.
But I always pace myselfbecause I always looked at the

(03:50):
fact of I don't want a bad back.
I don't want, you know, kneeproblems or shoulder problems or
things that come with blocklaying and brick laying.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
But in saying that, it's been my choice not to go
like the clappers I, I like whatyou just touched on, mate,
because you, um, you know howmany bricks you gotta lay a day
to make it worthwhile, yep, andI actually think that is a skill
and it's a skill in itself thatdoesn't get talked about, and I
, I personally look, we might godown a bit of a rabbit hole

(04:20):
here, but I personally believethat everyone's banging on about
the cost of housing andaffordability and all that type
of thing, but no one's talkingabout productivity.
Yeah, and I'm not sure on yourtheory, but I believe
productivity right now, um, in2025, is way less than it was

(04:40):
five years ago, 10 years ago ago.
Yeah, and I've seen some recentstudies and they've done the
numbers Like it's pretty insane.
Yeah, because a lot of youngpeople that get into the
industry like, whether you're abrickie, a plasterer, a
carpenter, whatever, a tiler,like you have to get a certain
amount of work done each day tobe profitable.
That's it, yeah, and a lot ofpeople don't think about that

(05:02):
enough.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
No, look, and this is a problem with the industry we
have Now.
I'm not going to target anybuilding and construction
companies, but the one thingthey've got to realise is for a
trade to be sustainable andcontinue, they have to make sure
that their tradies have theability to get the right money

(05:26):
so that they can employ, theycan train and they can actually
stay in the industry and beviable, relevant and run at a
profit.
There's no use going like hell,burning yourself out and
chucking it in and going by ataxi.
What's that achieved?
Nothing.
If you like your job, you shouldbe able to control your career.

(05:46):
To be able to turn up, put in areally good day, put the
numbers in to pay for.
You also need the right dollarper thousand, per block or per

(06:10):
hourly rate.
You know, and I've always triedto sort of not burn myself out
At 58 this year I've seen awhole heap of burnouts and some
are unfortunate, but some ofthem have been bought on by
themselves.
Yeah, you know.

(06:30):
And?
But the only thing I agree withwhat you said, dwayne
productivity, wise.
Um, the houses are unusualthese days.
They've got a lot of a lot ofglass in them.
The big runs are gone.
Uh, there's not as much sort ofum long run brick work to get
numbers in.
But brick laying you've got tobe productive, you've got to be

(06:52):
able to get the bricks in to pay.
So so that's even like.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
That's something I've never really thought about.
But you're 100 right, likehouses do have less brick work
in them because people wantbigger sliding doors and bigger
windows, so yeah but you wouldmake your cream on your big runs
absolutely when we were younger.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Um, I never thought about it when I was maybe an
apprentice, or even in the firstfive years of going out on my
own, but there was more dollarsto be made and more value in a
long run.
Or or backing up a retainingwall with a nine-inch skin or a
cavity wall.
But these days in a houseyou've got sectional panels,

(07:33):
you've got lots of 24 by 18s, 24high by 3 metres, 3 by 6, lots
of big openings, heaps of glass.
Now, I get that that's thearchitectural thing.
A lot of it is thesustainability of the house,
like everything is involved inthat, but what that's meant is

(07:53):
it's probably more difficult tobe as productive as was what it
was in the 80s and 90s.
Yeah, the style of house isdifferent, you know.
Um, yeah, it just is.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah and what are you ?
I'm sure you'd have an opinionon this as well.
What about the quality of thebricks that you're laying?

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Rightio, here's a burner.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Well, mate, I see it across everything in the
industry.
So I'm sure bricks are nodifferent.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Now this is the and look this question, I've got to
be blunt straight up AustralBricks huge player in the market
, of course.
Then Boral and PGH are, as one,as big companies.
They've got huge turnovers, allright, and I know that they

(08:40):
have to supply the materials,but for a market that's booming.
And let's face Australia'sconstruction industry.
I bat for Australia'sconstruction industry.
I actually think it's biggerthan the mining industry oh it
is, but no one talks about it.
No one talks about it.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
It's way bigger than the mining industry, especially
its offshoots, but I did a, Idid a email a few years ago and
sent it to some governmentofficials and was we're telling
them, basically, they need towake up themselves, because when
you add up, when you everyonetalks about construction in all
these different facets that theydon't really and but they don't

(09:19):
put everything together.
Yeah, but when you add up, likethe construction industry isn't
just about the buildings webuild, like you've got the
buildings we build, obviouslyall the employees and
contractors that come togetherto build that, then you've got
all the suppliers that supplythose materials, then you've got
all the transport companiesthat transport it, then you've
got all the manufacturers thatmake those materials, then

(09:39):
you've got forestry, and andthen on top of that, not only
that, everyone builds a newhouse or moves into a house.
Generally, they'll go and buynew furniture or something to
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just it'shuge, it's massive.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, and look, and to keep up with that, I know the
quality of bricks um the 80s,the fact that I didn't start
until like 83 and then rollthrough as an apprentice.
I know the bricks in the 80sand the 90s are better quality
than they are now.
Yeah, there's a huge colorrange now it's like a paint card

(10:13):
, it's like a paint brochure ofcolors, but the the quality of
the brick seems to be less thanwhat it was in the 80s and 90s.
Sure, occasionally there'sthere's better quality bricks in
some particular brands and alsosome particular lines that
might be.
So the duane brick this sixmonths might be better than the

(10:37):
duane brick next year.
I think it's very dependent onclay materials production
turnover.
It probably has a lot morevariables than what it did years
ago, but we had probably abetter quality brick years ago.
Certainly size-wise veryunusual.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
There's more variance now.
Yeah, bricks aren't as solid aswhat they used to be.
I remember as an apprenticemost bricks were a solid brick
and they had I don't know whatyou call it the like, the
indentation, the bottom of thebrick.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, the frog.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, that's it, yep um, but then these days they
seem to be a lot more hollow, alot more holes in them yeah, um,
when I first started I came umpartially through what we call
dry.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, different states call it different things,
but queensland would call itdry pressed.
So dry pressed bricks have thefrog and they're a dry pressed
brick in a mold.
So they're inclined to come outvery accurate, really accurate
product.
But they're always moreexpensive.
You can still buy them.
There was a a we call it aboutique brickwork in Warwick.

(11:43):
Yeah, yeah, a German familyowned it.
They were magnificent bricks.
That's still going in at theWarwick Well, I'm not 100% sure,
dwayne, it probably still is,but it can never play with the
big players and they know thatthey're not silly.
But we used to call themboutique brickwork and that was
amazing.
Their product they were drypressed but extruded bricks have

(12:07):
the 10 holes, or cord bricks.
I know new south walesvictorium call them cord bricks.
Yeah, um, strangely enough, alot of old boys are going oh,
the frog brick, dry pressedbrick, it'll be the best brick.
Um, they're very hungry forwater.
They, they, drink water.
I know as an apprentice we'dhave to go to work early.

(12:30):
We'd have to be running thehoses on the bricks to actually
make them layable so that whenyou spread your mortar.
They wouldn't absorb themoisture out of the mortar
straight away and be dead offthe trowel so we'd have to go
there and hose the bricks andhose the bricks for like an hour
or an hour before, and half thetime we had to do it at our own

(12:50):
time.
So then the boss would comealong and say, have you got it
all together yet?
And we're like, yeah, it's allready.
Because back then that wasanother thing.
Laborers, they used to turn upearly.
They were expected to turn upearlier.
They had to have everythinggoing, you know, ready to rock
and roll.
I'd love to see it return again.
It's very difficult to findthem.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Good bricklayers, labourers.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
They're rarer.
They're rarer than thebricklayer itself.
You know they're just gone andyet they're a highly important
part of the whole bricklayinggame well, bricklaying's?

Speaker 2 (13:27):
obviously it is.
It's a dying art.
Look, and brickwork isdefinitely well, especially up
here in queensland, it's yeahthere's not, and we were just
talking about before we startedrecording.
Like only two kilometers as acrow flies from my house here,
like when I was an apprentice,there was an enormous clay pit.
I can't remember the name ofthe brickworks, but there's a
huge brickworks and now it's allindustrial land.

(13:48):
Yeah, and there's another oneover on the south side that only
in the last two years, yep hasclosed down as well.
So it's um, there's nowherenear as much brickwork as what
they used to be no, and yet youstill can't get a bricklayer.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
So in construction, in all of these really big
developments, constructioncompanies have struggled to get
bricklayers.
So it always worries meoverseas whatever trade or I've
observed overseas that whatevertrade they struggle to get,
they'll change the material.
If they can't get bricklayers,they'll source out a different

(14:23):
material to clad that buildingor clad that house or do that
factory different.
Um, I didn't experience but uh,as a bricklayer.
But I know, particularly inbrisbane and sydney, huge block
line gangs before tilt up,before tilt up was even a thing,
big block line gangs 60 pluscould be more guys you'd hear

(14:46):
about and laborers laying hugeamounts of concrete blocks on
big developments or shoppingcenters or uh, you know, uh,
block work in the city or subsub area.
You know car parks and whateverin in city developments and
high-rises.
Yeah, they still do to a certaindegree, but nothing like they

(15:07):
used to.
Now the big block-laying gangsdisappear and it's more viable
to do the tilt-up thing Now.
I don't say there's nothingwrong with that, it's great,
there's no problems in it, andit soaks up concrete workers,
steel fixes, the riggers, thecranes.
It still has a huge flow-oneffect for work.
But the old block-laying gangthat's gone, yeah, so I'd hope

(15:31):
that the brick-laying thingstays relevant, particularly in
Australia, because Australia'sonly a puppy yeah, we've got so
much.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
We need more passionate people mate.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
So to take people back.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
So um andrew I've met andrew through um the godfather
, craig stewart, so thegodfather?

Speaker 1 (15:52):
is that what they call him?

Speaker 2 (15:53):
that's what we call him.
He um.
He's a wealth of knowledge,mate, and, just like you, he's
incredibly passionate about hiscraft and um he's been telling
me about you for so long and,like you've got to bloke, you've
got to see his work and I'm notsure we'll try and do it maybe
in the recording of this.
But like the photographs thatyou sent through of your brick
work and some of the it'sartistic mate, like some of the

(16:17):
stuff that you produce is insane.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
And I know there's probably a lot of that that
doesn't get asked for regularly.
Like it's you having a bit of aplay around, is it?

Speaker 1 (16:27):
Well, dwayne, a little bit of both.
One thing I've always I've saidthis to my apprentices, I was
really lucky To be an apprenticein the 1980s meant that you
flowed through a really goodconstruction industry in the 90s
, and in the 90s there was a bitof a hit on design with

(16:47):
federation.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
So it was like federation brickwork.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
So we got the ability to do arch work, to do some
buttress work, to do gable ends,to do front entries with arches
, just a lot of different sortof work which now just to do
with the design of homes and Isuppose the trend of what we're

(17:11):
in that has gone.
Yeah, but not always we'rereally lucky.
Brick companies I say againBoral, pgh and Austral they're
very good.
They still do brick displaycentres.
So some of that work in thosephotos was brick display centres

(17:33):
Also, occasionally we getrequests from them through
architects to actually do workfor architects.
So it's kind of lucky.
It's indirectly and I haven'treally done it, I've probably
only done it through beingpassionate and I've got a bit of
a hunger for doing some designbrickwork.

(17:53):
Doors have opened wheresomebody wants a fireplace.
That's a bit different.
We get a phone call.
So it's become really good.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
It's kind of like a little networky door that's
opened up for design brickworkwell, when you're passionate
about something and you you umlike people pick up on that and
people want that in their workbecause you you're a hard bloke
to find you don't have aninstagram or facebook flying
under the radar but, um, a lotof time.
that's the best way to be like,yeah, you're, um, you're just

(18:23):
poking doing your thing andyou're doing it really well.
But look, tell us a little bitabout, because you do a bit of
work with TAFEs and stuff and Iknow I've heard from my TAFE
teachers that teach myapprentices, my carpentry
apprentices, that bricklayersare getting few and far between,
like there's not a lot of kidscoming through.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, nowhere near enough.
Dwayne, we've got a first-yearapprentice.
He was with us last year as alabourer so he started this year
as a first year.
Now he's at TAFE up SunshineCoast.
There's himself and two kids inthe class, which is crazy.
The Sunshine Coast mate heshould have should be 13 of them

(19:03):
in the class.
Yeah, but it's sort of weird.
I know, and don't get me wrong,all of these trades are
important.
The pick trades from what I seeby going to work every day, the
pick trades are electriciansand plumbers.
Right, they're the two.
They're lined up.
We've got more.

(19:31):
They've got enough electriciansto run a power station, like
it's just insane how manyelectrical and yet when you ring
up to get an electrician youcan't find one.
Yeah, but bricklaying wise 10years ago in kalula.
Now kalula takes a fairly bigarea.
I think we've got 70 000 peoplenow, so, but it is over quite
an expanse.
So it goes to the coast.
You know north, south, east,west.
It's quite a big area.
But in Kooloola 10 years agothere was twice as many

(19:53):
bricklayers in that area.
Now Gympie has boomed in theconstruction industry.
It would have doubled,absolutely, absolutely doubled,
probably more in its populationand there's half as many
bricklayers as what there was 10years ago.
Yeah, and it's really strangebecause now when builders want
to get a bricklayer, they ringme up and I choose.

(20:17):
My choice is to stay small.
So I just have, like my mainoff-sider, I have a tradie and
an apprentice and myself.
So three or four, that's mychoice At 58, I don't want the
brain strain and the wholeshebang, but that's me and
that's how I roll.

(20:38):
But there's so much opportunityfor young bricklayers advancing
through the trade.
They couldn't run out of work.
My catchphrase at the moment isyou could live another life.
Honestly, they couldn't run outof work.
My catchphrase at the moment isyou could live another life.
Honestly.
You couldn't run out of work.
If you tried, you'd have toshoot the boss or something Like
it's, because there's just somuch work out there.
But I say this to the youngguys at TAFE I go and I do a

(21:01):
thing called try a skill and trya trade and I go and help out a
thing called try a skill andtry a trade, and I go and help
out at TAFE on a voluntary basis.
All right Now, I did mytraining and assessment, dwayne,
but I only did it in case Ibroke and I love going to work
and even though some people sayto me aren't you burnt out,
aren't you sick of it?

(21:21):
Have you had a gutful of thatbrick line?
No, I actually haven't, Mate.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
you wouldn't be sitting here with as much energy
as you have bouncing out of thechair if you didn't enjoy what
you're doing.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
But I still do.
But I know, being a bit older,I look at other people's jobs
and I go.
I think to myself if you don'tlike your job, that's it, you're
cooked it.
I think to myself if you don'tlike your job, that's it, you're
cooked, it's finished.
Why are you there?
Yeah, what are you putting in?
You're not really helping thatmany people, you're just
cheesing everyone off beingthere.
Yeah.

(21:53):
So I like going to work in anindustry that's still relevant
and it needs help.
It needs good bricklayers.
Yeah, it needs good bricklayers.
It needs good brick layers.
Yeah, it needs good bricklayers and I um, I've seen a lot
of a huge demographic of bricklayers over the years.
Overall, as a trade, I love it,but it's got a little bit of a

(22:15):
problem.
Its skill level is going thatway instead of that way.
Yeah, now, I have not hugeanswers for to fix that problem.
The only thing that I see is ithas to be taken a little bit
more seriously as a trade andit's got to be treated more
professionally.
Bricklaying is a profession.
It's not just a dog's body gamewhere you turn up and put the

(22:40):
radio on and just smash them in.
That's not it.
Bricklaying as old as timeitself.
You can go all through Europeand you can ask all the old
construction guys.
At college, bricklaying wasrevered as a trade.
It was right up here.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Well, even when I was an apprentice, mate, I remember
bricklayers were respected.
They were a very top qualitybusiness to have, and I don't
see it as much now.
I remember being an apprenticeand the brickies would have
their trade pack trucks andthey'd have it all decked out
with the scaffolding andeverything.
It was all very well organised,yeah, and I don't see a lot of

(23:21):
that anymore.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
No, and it's sort of.
I think then it reflects in thequality of the job.
One thing I've always been toldmy old boss told me this years
ago and I've passed this onbrickwork is the it's.
If you walk up to a house, it'spretty well 80% of what you see
unless it's rendered or timberor whatever.
That's cool.
But if you walk up to a facebrick home like yours here,

(23:45):
duane, it's 80% of what you see.
And do you want 80% crap or doyou want 80% quality?
Yeah, which one do you want?
So, and then I think for yearsrolling down I'll be dead and
gone right.
So I kind of look at it thatthe next generation that's
coming through, as long as theboss man has taught them

(24:07):
properly, that kid will remembersomething.
But if that kid hasn't beentaught properly, one day he's
going to teach someone else.
And he's actually not going toteach them right.
And yet really, when you lookat it, is it the kid's fault?
It's actually not.
It's been the generation that'sactually had it good.

(24:28):
Right now, if they haven'tinstilled it, they can't blame
the next one for popping it.
It's hard.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
That sort of stuff's hard.
We're absolutely under the pumpat the moment.
We've been doing quite a lot ofweekends and stuff and actually
last Saturday I did a big dayon the tools with one of our
labourers and one of the jobs wehad to do was lay some bricks
and look, I'm not a brickie butI was taught Like my boss was
old school.
They did everything If thebrickie didn't show up or it was

(24:57):
a small renovation, like wejust did whatever had to be done
.
Yep, and so we've tidied up theproject.
Last Saturday did some othertasks that we had to get done
for the day and I said right nowwe're going to.
So we used the old.
When we did the demo on the job, we pulled the old brick
fireplace down.
So the big stone base and thenthe brick fireplace.

(25:18):
So the stones we laid out andthat's all getting worked into
the landscaping, and then thebricks we've cleaned up and
we're using them for a littlepath cleaned up and we're using
them for a little path, entry,path to the front door.
And yeah, I just said to himwell, we finished the rocks, the
next job's we're gonna laythese, these bricks.
And he's like what do you mean?
I can lay the bricks, yeah so,but like we have people come
through now and I think this issomething that's really hurting

(25:42):
the industry is we haveapprentices come, they do their
time and they think at the endof their time they're set and
they leave and they go out ontheir own and there's not enough
people sticking around withtheir employer long enough to
actually pick up all the skillsthey need and
so I did.
I hung around with my boss so Ilearned to do the bricklay and

(26:03):
I learned to do the plaster andI got everything.
And this laborer last sundaywas like blown away because like
I'm not on the tools a lot inmy business anymore, yeah, but
he was blown away that I hadlike I still have it surrounding
the shed out there, like Istill have me bucket.
Yeah, that has all the troughsand all the concrete and the
brick laying gear in it and I'mlike I did my.

(26:24):
I finished my apprenticeshipbloody 20 years ago.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, yeah, your finished my apprenticeship
bloody 20 years ago.
Yeah, yeah, um, your pointthere that you made duane's bang
on, and actually, young people,this is a big thing you've got
to remember and you've got totake this on board.
I, when I was younger, Ithought oh, yeah, yeah, whatever
, whatever the old boys wouldtell you something, but your
head's not in the space, right.
But as you get older, youhopefully get a bit wiser.

(26:48):
But one thing that is true isyou really only start learning
after you finish yourapprenticeship.
Yeah, it's really weird.
My old boss we were and this isno disrespect for him a very
knowledgeable, old, skilledbricklayer.
Um, he'd be in the top threebest bricklayers I've ever met.

(27:09):
In saying that, I'm talking notspeed, skill level and an eye
for straight, I always say, likeyou can be a natural at any job
, but to be a natural bricklayeryou've got to have an eye for
straight.
And the other trade that's gota really good eye for straight
is tiling.
You know, like we're all aboutlines.

(27:29):
It's, it's all lines, it's allsymmetry.
It's like I don't want to cutyou off.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
You're on, put you off track.
But even even that like asimple skill, like being able to
sight things, my boys hate iton site now like I rock into
site and from across the roadgetting out of me you got
something all that I'm I'mpointing, and they know when I
come over I'm going to pick,pick them up on something.
People aren't using their eyesanymore.
They rely on lasers foreverything.
Well, dwayne that's quality wenever had a laser when I was an

(27:56):
apprentice.
I didn't even have a laser, mostof my trade.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Now we're coming into a great area here.
This is the area I love.
This is unreal.
You've instigated it.
I love that when You'veinstigated it.
I love that when we first, whenI was an apprentice, I wasn't
going to fart, I couldn't.
I was pretty quiet, believe itor not, but my old boss was a
hard-ass, tough old boy, Agentleman, but old school full

(28:23):
on.
So we never had at that stageof the game.
What I do like about Brick Laneis you can follow it through
the decades.
Do you want to say decades?
I'm only a puppy really, butI've watched four decades.
So in the 80s they'd get out ofthe truck.
There was no profiles, therewas no clamps on the wall to set

(28:53):
the brickwork pole to gauge offthe first thing that was.
And also there was no cut andfill.
So cut and fills never existed.
So the builder would work withthe concreter or the bricklayer
and set out the job profile.
We do a base because there wasno cut and fill.
It might have been a splitlevel home or it might have been
a low base.
Travelling along, they nevertouched the land.
So we then, as the bricklayer,had to get a plan, A plan.

(29:20):
No one looks at a plan anymore.
You do, You're the builder.
But if you hand one to abricklayer, they don't need the
plan anymore.
All they do is measure straightoff the stud 160 mil they're
off.
You had to set it out with thebuilder.
Now, as a whipper I didn't thinkmuch about it.
But when I look back at it nowit was good because the profiles

(29:41):
were there.
We pulled our lines, we plumbedeverything down onto the
footing and we started to buildcorners.
Now I use profiles.
Now I know that I've got abrick saw profiles, a brick
elevator, all the whistles andbells.
But the old way, before thelaser, um, he'd send me off and

(30:01):
we'd have to fill the waterlevel.
Now and when I think about it,I told my apprentice and he's
like a a what, A water level andhow it was.
The builder would have profileseverywhere.
He'd have a datum that was theRL of what your base was going
to end up at as a height andthen we would actually attach

(30:21):
that water level to that pointand then the water level would
be long.
It could be like 30 foot ofclear hose.
It could be more.
That would end up going aroundand follow the bricklayer around
with a plug in the end todetermine his fourth, fifth,
sixth course, wherever the basetopped out and water level never

(30:42):
lies.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Mate.
I've talked about the waterlevel a few times on the podcast
.
It's 100% accurate 100%accurate.
Like cheap as chips.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
It's 100% accurate, 100% accurate Like cheapest
chips yeah, cheapest chips.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
I think we had a 50-meter roll in my boss's truck
.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
It was on like a hose reel.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
That's it.
That's it and it was like anormal during the apprenticeship
.
This was probably only thefirst two or three years, but
eventually Owen Thompson, my oldboss eventually he got the
14-inch masonry drop saw he gotthe laser.
Before the laser we had thedumpy level.
And there's one thing I doregret and I never asked him, I

(31:18):
never knew how to use a cowleylevel.
Have you ever heard of a cowleylevel?
So, it's like the dumpy, butit's even older than the dumpy
and it goes back before thewater level and it's more of a
surveying tool.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, that's the one where it looks like a little
level sitting on a tripod, isn'tit?

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah, I think it is.
You know, and I never knew muchabout that, but it's sort of
weird, those skills.
I think what they did, duane,was they caused you to construct
a corner and build a corner.
Now, all right, tomorrow I'llcall the boys.
You know, this is the wallwe're working on.
We'll set up a profile.
Profiles are industry.

(32:04):
Profiles, used properly, arevery good, um, and you can mark
your gauge.
If you use a profile, you canget a very plumb corner.
If you don't care about theprofile and the profile pulls in
, it's all too late.
You've got your corners run out, but I so I still use them for
speed, but I do like to build acorner every now and then it

(32:28):
teaches, teaches the skill.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Most people wouldn't know what you're talking about,
mate Correct me if I'm wrongwhen you're talking about
building the base up.
So we would go to site, do thefootings and things and then,
exactly like you said, we wouldget the brick laying, because
all the jobs we did for yearswere brick bases and the brickie
would always start building hiscorner up and that corner

(32:50):
depending on how high it was,sort of depending how long it
went out.
That's it, the rack out, yeahand that yep was the start of
the job.
That's it.
Once all the corners were done,then you just pulled your lines
and you filled it in.
That's it um you brought back afew memories, mate, because I
got my ass kicked so many timesfor getting air bubbles in the
water level yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
And look, it's really weird, I the the good
bricklayers, the skilled upbricklayers, they were the
corner builders, the line men.
They run in the line in betweenand that probably was something
that the boss would have.
He would have determined thatthat.
You know, duane's good on thecorner and he's got good level
skills.
And I still tell my boys theprinciple, pardon me, the

(33:34):
principle is gauge first level,plum and then alignment.
Nothing has changed.
Nothing has changed.
It shouldn't change.
Once it changes, you're headingin the wrong direction for
straight brickwork.
So it's gauge, which is height,level which is level, plumb
which is plumb, and alignment toline everything down.

(33:55):
Those simple things really,probably because we're a little
bit archaic.
They don't actually need tochange.
And the bricklayer, who'sproductive and a really good
trowel, he can build a cornerand there's no mucking around.
They just know because theyused to do it years ago.
I know they do it college,still now, but it's not

(34:17):
something that is relied upon.
It's funny.
I've heard young apprenticessay I don't want to build a
corner.
We don't build a corner, we puta profile up and the good TAFE
trainer, the good TAFE trainer,the good TAFE teacher or the
TAFE trainer will go yeah, butyou need to know how to
construct a corner or somethinglike that, or you know what I

(34:39):
mean, where it's actually doingit by trowel and level.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, um and yeah, look you, I'm not telling you
that you don't know.
This is more just for listeners.
But the first probably 10 years, I reckon, of my time the
brickies, the one bricklayerthat did most of my boss's work.
He had a brick saw on the truck, yeah, but it hardly come out.

(35:04):
Holy.
We had a gauge rod, so themorning we flicked the slab out
and marked everything.
Well, a lot of the time you hada brick base, yeah, so it was
very easy.
You'd knock your knockoffcourse off, you'd flick all your
walls out and then you'd do allyour window set out based on
the bricks, that's it.

(35:25):
And so there was no cutting, no, but then, over my time and as
I started so a lot of there wasno cutting, no, but then, over
my time and as I started doing alot of work for myself, there
was so many people just notcaring and the brickies would
always have the shits likethey'd be cut, like some bloke
would be on the saw all day,every day.
Yeah, just cutting bricksbecause no one had taken the
time to set the job out properly.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yep, and this is important because, in reflection
, one generation, if they don'tknow about setting a base out
and the carpenter coming in withthe builder and setting all the
openings out, the windows, thedoors, etc.
Uh he, if he doesn't get toldthat he doesn't know, he doesn't

(36:07):
even think it's a problem thatyou're cutting bricks.
They just put them in anywherethey couldn't care.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Most people in the I know reach out.
A lot of people don't even knowwhat a gauge rod is.
Yeah, yeah, or a height stickis yeah, um, and it's.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
This is where it's kind of goes old school.
It's almost as if the placeneeds, the industry needs, a
little bit of a reboot ofknowledge.
But it's difficult to do that.
But what can be done is theemployer he needs to do.
Now I'll get on to one thinghere WorldSkills Australia and

(36:42):
WorldSkills International.
One of their mottos is bestpractice.
All right, so they promote bestpractice.
These these days, best practiceis straight out the wheelie bin
.
No one gives a crap aboutanything.
All they give a garb about ishow much they're getting a week,
how much they're getting a day,how much they're getting an

(37:04):
hour, whatever it is.
As far as addition up qualityfor the couple's biggest
investment they'll ever make intheir whole life, they couldn't
give a crap.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
And again, I truly believe it comes back to that
rushing to get out of your timeto go and work for yourself.
People just aren't picking upthe skills, and the thing is you
don't know what you don't know,so you rush it on your own and
you just think you're doingeverything right, but you're
actually producing, yeah, a very, a much lower standard of work
to what we were 20 years agoyeah, I'd agree with that.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
It's sort of weird I see kids at tafe, um, because
sometimes in a generalconversation sometimes you can
be guilty of bashing thegeneration.
And yet I know there's reallygood kids out there.
There's good tradies, there'skids who want to be a builder,
they want to be a plasterer,they want to be a bricklayer,

(38:02):
but there's not as much of thatas what used to happen.
I know one thing that I alwaysreally am thankful for I grew up
I'm the oldest of three and Iwas always connected to my old
man.
Anything that he was building,anything that he was doing, any

(38:25):
dogfight that he was in in town,going to the dump, going to the
sawmill, whatever I wanted tobe part of, I was not an indoor
kid, I had to be outdoors.
So and this is before phones,before anything where the I
don't know freedom.

(38:45):
You just did whatever.
I don't know if it's just good.
It's hard to explain, but Idon't have to because people
that are listening they knowkids who were brought up in 70s,
80s, 90s is top shelf, really Ahundred percent.
It actually was top shelf, butI kind of really like the fact

(39:05):
that I spent a lot of time withmy old man doing things, like
the fact that I spent a lot oftime with my old man, um, doing
things.
If he was digging a hole, so hehe basically dug out under what
I'd call I don't like it's not aqueenslander, that's terms used
wrong but a high set timberhome on stumps.
He dug it all out, re-stumpedit all.

(39:25):
It got bricked in eventually.
But like they did in the sortof 70s uh, dads and granddads
they did a lot of it themselvesand I was always part of it.
I couldn't dig enough holeswith the crowbar if I tried.
I just loved it.
It's weird.
At the time I didn't think muchof it, but I look back on it
now.
Um, that's, I think, is a goodthing for a young tradie to

(39:51):
aspire to doing an outdoor jobor a vocational job or a
construction job or painting.
You're going to laugh at this,dwayne.
I wanted to be a bricklayer,but my next pick was painting.
I love painting and people go.
I can't stand painting painting.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
I love painting and people go.
I can't stand painting.
My old boy's been a painter for40 similar to you like 42, 44
years and I just I did a bit oftime with him doing some
painting when I first finishedmy time.
And yeah, man, I I can't standit.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
I'll do a bit of touching up here and there, but
I just can't stand well I usedto work for an old fellow who's
an old boy painter and I'd do iton the weekends and it started
from work experience at highschool and he was a repainter.
So he was a sand abacara, youknow of sanded-down houses and
full timber repaints exteriorand I really liked it.

(40:44):
But I couldn't I know now Icouldn't do it as a job.
But I couldn't I know now Icouldn't do it as a job.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
but I love these things Using your hands yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
There's just something about the whole
creativity thing and if you'rethat way inclined, it's almost
it gives you it's like a bitaddictive.
You know, I really like it.
I go to art galleries and Ilove.
I can't paint for poop, allright, I wouldn't have a clue
how to paint anything.
But I look at art and I can100% appreciate that going to

(41:19):
the Merced d'Orsay in Paris tosee Van Gogh is just how the
hell did that happen?
That will never happen again.
Or Rembrandt, or something likethat.
That's just special, so special, and it comes from these things
and in here.
Yeah, so I kind of love thewhole tradie hand art creativity

(41:41):
thing.
Um, but I just transferred intobrickland and well, you've
definitely done that, mate.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
I don't know how we're going to show some of your
stuff.
I'll have to try and share iton my instagram or something.
But yeah some of that, the umlike.
Obviously there's those thattwisted archway did you see that
?
One.
You like him.
Holy shit, I don't, mate, Idon't.
I can't even start to imaginehow you did that.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah well, that's a helical arch.
So it's a.
You might have noticed um andbrickies and construction guys
if you listen, and we know whata helical pier is.
So a helical pier is like nodifferent than a corkscrew.
So it's built in segments andit's worked out mathematically
for the turn to get 90, 180, 360or 270, 360 depending on how

(42:26):
high you go.
So, um, and then we decidedthat it needs to become an arch.
So it actually we had to workout the arch centre as a cradle
and the cradle it turned.
And this is Dwayne, where I'm abit lucky.
This could never be an industrything that you would be able to

(42:49):
do for Joe Rat Builder, becauseyou can appreciate he can't
afford that time.
But we were lucky.
We did it for brick companiesand they wanted it as a bit of
an expose.
So we got given the goldengoose.

(43:09):
I suppose I'll never do oneagain.
I'll guarantee you as long asmy bum points to the earth it
won't happen again.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
How long did?

Speaker 1 (43:17):
that take?
How long did that take?
It was about a week.
It was because every brick iscut because it turns and arches,
so it buzzes and turns as well,so it was crazy like the
cutting in it.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
But I look at that, so I think you'll be similar to
me, mate.
Like I haven't done a lot oftraveling but the little bit of
traveling I've done, especiallyin Europe, like I can stand and
look at an old building for days, Yep, and I just sit there and
think, like I just appreciatethe labor the creativity, the,

(43:55):
the, just the skill that wentinto those old buildings, like
you just, and it blows my mindlike, well, you know more than I
do talking about the history ofbricks.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Well, that's what I love about our trade is I know
it's relevant for the time.
Labour Costs them nothing, youknow.
Imagine the bricklayers theywould have had on cathedrals and
big government buildingsthroughout Europe.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, thousands of them.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Oh, it would be insane how many they had.
But, relevant to the time, itprobably wasn't a thing that
they even thought about becauseat one period of time, factually
, bricklayer was king,absolutely without a doubt.
Never taking anything away fromthe other trades, bricklayer,
particularly through europe, wasabsolute king.

(44:43):
Um, the place where I've seenand hopefully some of the
listeners have been there,denmark, copenhagen.
Oh my God, father, it's likeyou've died and gone to
brick-lone heaven.
It's like insane, the brickworkin that country.
I found out why, dwayne yearsafter, is that Denmark doesn't

(45:06):
have a forestry industry as such, it's all agriculture.
They don't have a forestryindustry as such, it's all
agriculture.
They don't have timber.
It's not a timber wealthcountry to be able to construct
in timber, nor so much is itsteel, but bricks.
Oh my God, I can't overstate.
I Googled Denmark and brickworkand just this encyclopedia of
construction will come up.

(45:27):
It's insane, and that's kind ofwhy I like the trade and I like
it for its skill level, I likeit for its history and it does
go back a long way.
Brick layers go like bricklayers are around far before
carpenters.
Yeah, and look, it's justprobably because it was a
natural product, it was dug outof the ground, it was mud bricks

(45:50):
.
I'm talking to Shea travelling.
I've been really fortunate totravel through Egypt.
There's a country it's amazingand I love stone, as in granite,
like Egypt's, full of granitefrom Aswan, from the quarries in
Aswan, the red granite thatmakes all of what you would see

(46:10):
as littered down the Nile, butsandstone as well.
But brickwork was mud bricks.
So what's weird is they hadn'treally created the ability to
make a beautiful mud brickproduct, but two and a half,
three thousand years ago agothey were smashing out mud
bricks out of the dial, someonewas laying them.

(46:32):
So it's very unusual.
Like everywhere you go is amasonry trade.
Um, masonry slash, as inbricklaying and stone masonry,
and I've got to say, um, it's a,it'll never happen.
But my favourite trade is, youknow it is brickland, but my

(46:53):
cousin to it is architecturalstone masonry.
Yeah, man, oh man, that is,that's the prime, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
How they turn chunks of stone into the things they do
is incredible.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah, and that's where it gets back to duane
their um ability to be goodcraftsmen.
Um, and it's kind of strange.
I get people come up to me andthey go oh yeah, we're in 2025.
Who gives a shit?
That's not relevant?
Yeah, it is.
It actually is, because that'sthe skill of your trade, all

(47:29):
right.
So if you want to roll it upand throw it in the rubbish bin,
that's not a good thing.
You can still do a qualitybuild for Bob and Mary's brick
veneer at North Lakes and notsmash it up.
So I know we might never getthe opportunity to build.
Actually, this will interestyou.

(47:49):
I'd love to do it.
I don't know whether it willhappen Next year.
Gaudi's Sagrada Familiar inBarcelona is finished, complete.
So you know, gaudi thearchitect, his big cathedral
yeah, now, that's complete in2026.
How long have they beenbuilding that for?

(48:12):
Ah, now, don't quote me on this.
Everybody in in podcast landwill know it better, but it's
like a hundred and somethingyears.
So it's, which is people go yeah, whatever, so what so?
What so?
What?
Um, I want an amazing architect, but what's I find really
unusual is that would be one ofthe few constructions that has
actually been still going overthe last hundred years to

(48:35):
complete a cathedral which theysay is just dumbfounding.
It's just next level.
I know previous, you know 14th,15th, 16th, 17th century
cathedral.
Yes, they're amazing and sure,amazing is not the right word,
it has to be up from that.

(48:56):
But for that Sagrada Familiarto be actually constructed now,
man, that's amazing.
Yeah, so there must bearchitectural stonemasons in
Europe, being German or Austrianor whatever, that are still
doing that work, yeah, which isexciting, because that would be
a tough gig to be anarchitectural stonemason now.

(49:17):
I don't know how you'd stay andwork, but it's just that we
keep Like.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
I personally believe that easy is ruining the world.
It doesn't matter across theboard.
We're all taking the easy road.
Hard work is becoming a thingof the past, and so everything
is just becoming constantlyeasier, and so houses.

(49:44):
I take my job very seriouslyand I talk about this all the
time on the podcast and on mysocials, like I can still like
I'm I don't know if you know I'mfrom gimpy, most of my family's
from up that way, and he's notover there, my uh really yeah,
my mom's family were the weaverslike they owned a lot of mother

(50:05):
mountain.
yeah, had dairy and bean farmsand stuff up there, and so like
there's still a house out onthat property that I can drive
past and that was all.
They cut the timber in thehills, they dragged it down to
the house site, they machined it, they cut it, they built the
house and it's still there.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
And I just think why, like it really frustrates me
that trades these days don'tthink like that, like we should
be put it, we should be buildingthings that are going to last
yeah, like we shouldn't just become in, smash it out.
Let it get it done.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Move on to the next one and I've had this one put to
me all the time is it's alwaysfinancial, it's always a
monetary reason why buildingsgot to be done to a certain
level to people to be able toafford it and sort of pump them
out.
I'm not.

(51:06):
It's really weird as abusinessman, not actually a very
good weird as a businessman.
I'm not actually a very goodone.
This is a fact.
I'm a bit too creative.
I sort of throw the watch awayand I concentrate on the
creativity thing for an outcome,but that's only if it's a
special project.

(51:28):
Now, in saying that, some ofthose photos, we just recently
we did a church chapel, now wedid a vaulted ceiling.
Now I'd done one vault ceilingbefore but this was an
opportunity to do a better one,so that was a very that was a
great customer to have all right.
So he actually paid for all ofthat and everything was a winner

(51:49):
.
But apart from that, I kind ofalways try and put the quality
of a job over sometimes thefinancial outcome of the job, in
saying that you've got to runat a profit and you've got to be
able to pay the bills.
But if I'm doing a job forDuane and it takes a bit longer

(52:13):
and we're on a contract rate andit's per thousand or per block
or whatever it may be.
I'm the businessman.
If it doesn't quite pay, that'slife right.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Yeah, see, that's part of my mission to change
mate, because I think there's alot of really skillful tradies
out there that are undersellingthemselves.
Yeah, you've got to sell yourpassion, you've got to sell your
quality, and it's about you'renot going to do work for every
client.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
No.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Because there is a lot of clients out there that
are purely focused on the dollar.
Yeah, so you've got to find theclients that want the quality
and and appreciate the skillsthat you have.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
that's it and dwayne, I kind of reckon, um, it's a
hard balance.
Uh, weirdly enough, you'd thinkI would have worked it out
after all this time.
But I have a passion forbricklaying, so I kind of look
at it from like differentperspectives.
I always try to teach myapprentice.

(53:16):
I don't give him the broom he'snot a broom apprentice.
I'm trying to make him learnsomething.
But I sort of kids these days,they're a little bit in the
moment.
So what happens is everything'sgot to be instant.
Four years of an apprenticeshipthey go.
Oh my God.
Four years, I can't last thatlong.
That's too long.
Four years is nothing,absolutely nothing.

(53:40):
And in that four years thatactually moulds you as a person
and as a tradesperson to be ableto sort of continue your job
all the way through.
And then it becomes a career,and I know a lot of bricklayers
and maybe other trades too.
Their construction job is not acareer.

(54:03):
It's actually not.
I can pick it a mile off.
Yeah, me too.
They didn't give a crap.
It's not a career.
It's maybe for the next fiveyears.
We're going to knock it out ofthe park and that's it.
So to me it's not a career.
They can tell me all that trashas long as they want to.
It's not a career.
A career is something that youwant to do your best at, to

(54:26):
maybe like through WorldSkillsAustralia.
The reason why I'm with them isI give back to the industry.
So, in my simple way you knowI'm not like the world's best
teacher or the world's bestbricklayer, but it's a way to
give back to the generation.
And one thing I can do and it'sreally weird, and as I go

(54:47):
through life I seem to begetting better at it I can cross
a generation gap.
It's a piece of cake.
It's a piece of cake Like I cango to TAFE and they come out
and they go look at this grumpyold bastard Like the hat, the
frigging sock savers, you knowhe's like Jesus.
Look at this idiot.
Here we go, and yet I'll makethat day interesting for those

(55:13):
kids and I'll be a little bitcool, but I can engage them
because, uh, I'm not buying them, I'm not manipulating them, but
I'm making them realize thatI'm not some grumpy old poop
who's just you don't want tolisten to.
Yeah, so what I find is thenthat's ticked a box, that kid's
gone away from tafe that day andhe's gone.

(55:35):
Wow, dad, I've seen thisbricklayer today as a fruit loop
, like he was as funny as, buthe taught us this, this, this
and this.
Yeah, so you've actually tickedthe box.
If you're a grumpy old shit andyou scream and yell all day,
what's he going to tell mum anddad?
Yeah Well, what's he going tothink of the trade?
And no positives are going tocome out of it.

(55:56):
So I try to be tough on myapprentice, but fair, and I want
him to learn something, and oneof my favourite lines is this
is your future, riley, not mine.
This is yours, but I keeptelling all my young fellas, if
you want to.
If you want to climb the ladder,it'll benefit, it'll pay

(56:18):
dividends in years to come and Iknow he gets it, but it's
difficult.
The world that they live in asan apprentice bricklayer is not
the one that I was in and that Ithink that's the hardest part,
mate.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
I keep telling my young guys all the time like you
, this industry is changingrapidly.
Yeah, and we uh, it is gettingfurther and further.
Between good tradesmen and ifyou work your ass off, you put
in the effort, you put in thatextra one percent every day and
you aim to be the best at whatyou're doing, yep, you will be

(56:51):
very successful.
Yeah, because of the other nineout of ten guys that are coming
through aren't passionate andthey're not putting in the
effort.
Yeah, so I think there's neverbeen a more um, I don't ever
think there's been a better timein my time, anyway, for people
to actually do incredibly wellat their trade.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
And this is one thing I can't speak for.
It's a bit different.
Like I'm in a rural area, so Ican't speak for.
Like a city gang of bricklayers, all right, I can't really
appreciate what it's like forthem to be working for, maybe, a
project builder who is going topromise them, like you know, 60

(57:35):
houses for the year and that'sall they're going to do.
So I can't pass a judgment onthat because I've never been in
that position.
I hear lots of things but I'venever been in that position.
But the only thing is that Ikind of reckon, if you can, no
matter what job you're doing, nomatter what, uh, aim for the

(57:57):
better hourly rate or the betterrate per thousand, but you've
got to deliver something withthat.
And I've had a few guys tell meoh yeah, we get this a brick,
we get that a brick, we get thisa block, this, we get that a
brick, we get this a block, thata block.
We're whacking them in, we'redoing this, we're doing that,
they're building everything,they're conquering the world,

(58:17):
but if they get a better rateper thousand or a better dollar
rate, are they given quality forit?
Because I sort of instill intomy boys.
Are they given quality for it?
Because I sort of instil intomy boys we get good rate of
brick per thousand and goodblocks per block.
But there's one thing moreimportant than that is that if

(58:38):
Dwayne pays the top dollar forthe face brick laid, what does
Dwayne want?
Yeah, yeah, does Dwayne wantquality?
Of course he does.
If he's going to pay for topmoney, he wants a top job.
But that mindset, that's along-term mindset, so it keeps
your trade good.

(58:59):
Because I've always some peopleare going oh, you bricklayers,
you're always putting your rateup and I'm like look, what
you've got to understand is torun at a profit, to pay workers'
comp, to pay public liability,to pay super and all the red
tape, fruit loop stuff along theway.
You've got to run at a profit.

(59:20):
You can't be living five yearsago, you know, just because the
builder says that's all you'regetting.
No, no, no, no, no.
You've got to actually get abetter rate per thousand.
But the offset there's anoffset with everything.
The offset is you've got to doa top job.
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
No shit People only focus on the dollar.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Why are you dishing up rubbish and you want $2.60 a
brick?
If you want $2.60 a brick, it'sgot to be prime yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
It's got to be prime.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Yeah, it's got to be really good.
What is a brick worth thosedays to lay?
Look, we're getting two dollarsforty lay only.
But that can vary and that'swith um.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
It's about that's joe blog's builder it's about time
bricky's got the right rate, saywell, I remember for for years,
you're, you're on 80 cents abrick.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Yeah, yeah.
And look, when I first startedout on my own I was getting
450,000, so 45 cents all right,but relevant to the time, the
rate has gone up, but I've triedto make it climb and obviously
costs climb.

(01:00:28):
Business costs climb.
So do materials.
I've noticed since COVID,materials even in brick line
through the roof.
And our materials are simple,you know, but they've even gone
up.
Well, sand mate, far out.
Yeah, yeah, it's like mad howmuch it is now.
But as opposed to a builder,our materials are nothing but

(01:00:49):
relevant to Bill and Bob andmary's house.
It's still dollars thatshouldn't come out of your
pocket.
It should be within thestructure of your lay rate or
lay rate plus materials, orwhatever it is.
But, um, along with it's got tobe quality, because and I know I
keep getting given to it, butQuality is the number one thing-

(01:01:11):
mate it is it is, and I've saidto my kids before and I've said
to apprentices on the floor atTAFEs the recipe is actually
pretty easy, but no one's doingit If you pay.
X amount of dollars, you expecta quality job.

(01:01:32):
You'll be happy, Like generally.
You'll forget the price.
The quality will remain.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Mate.
It is a daily conversation onmy job sites now, with all of my
trades.
We're all screaming for help.
We need labourers, we needtradesmen, but everyone is
chasing more money than ever.
Yeah, but are they?
Delivering, but the quality islower than ever.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Yeah um, a funny thing that I tell me workers and
, um, my main man, barry hooper.
The guy's been with me for 30.
He remembers it because he hadthe same boss for a period of
time and I took barry over whenowen retired.
But you've worked together for30 years, yeah, one-on-one.
So he knows me better than mywife because he had the same
boss for a period of time and Itook Barry over when Owen
retired.
So you've worked together for30 years, yeah, one-on-one.
So he knows me better than mywife.

(01:02:18):
Serious, I'm not joking you,dwayne, and he'd be probably in
the top five best bricklayersthat I know.
And this is the difference,barry.
He's your all-round skilled upbricklayer who knows he's
actually good enough to be ateacher.

(01:02:39):
He doesn't think he is, he'svery humble, but he he's got a
package and I've always reckonedI look at guys and I go you're
a natural and you really knowwhat you're doing.
You don't think you do, but youactually do.
You move well, you've gotability with a trowel and it's
just an extension of your hand.
Barry's sort of like that.
But he's been the worker, he'sbeen an employee, the perfect

(01:03:03):
employee.
He doesn't want to be the boss,he doesn't want the
responsibility.
And yet when I go away, he runsa place like clockwork and when
I come back there's no fires toput out, there's nothing.
And what this comes from is thefact that he's a very, very
good tradesman.
He's learnt it right.
But in actual fact, what you'dhave to say is and I'm a little

(01:03:28):
bit of it, but mainly Owen aswell, his previous bosses they
did it right, they taught himright.
So he's a product of ageneration that sort of skilled
up their apprentices and theirworkers and he's kind of what
pushes out the sausage machineat the end.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
He's a winner.
Well, he's part of thatgeneration that takes pride in
what they do, and he laughs atthis.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
It used to happen frequently Owen, the old boss
man and Barry's boss.
If we were laying on a wallwith Owen, he would let us go
through till lunchtime andsometimes even in the afternoon,
and then he would go along witha pencil and he'd mark the
bricks that were shit that hadto come out.
So as we went along he didn'ttell us there and then the wall

(01:04:18):
would climb, not a big gang, sothe wall wouldn't climb
excessive.
But at smoko or lunch or in theafternoon he would drive off.
I never had a car.
He'd ring the old man and sayAndrew's on site, he's taking a
few bricks out.
Can you come and get him?
Secretly?
I probably had the shits.

(01:04:39):
But do you know what it taughtme?
Don't lay the chip brick.
Why are you laying chip bricks?
Yeah, you put in, you've buttedthat brick.
You've bedded that brick in thewall face brick.
You've pointed it, jointed it,whatever the joint finish was,
and you've accepted it.
Why have you accepted it?
So he'd go along, put a bigcross on it and then that mud's

(01:05:01):
gone off.
So you'd have to plug andchisel it out and like take it
out and then instill anotherbrick.
So it taught you a lesson don'tlay shit, bricks and you know
it works.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
It actually it actually really works?

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
yeah, because, but at the time I remember this, the
sun would be waning and I'd belike jesus.
This is what have I done, youknow, but it was a lesson.
And then another thing is andI've told past apprentices
action has consequences.
If you do the wrong action,that's the consequence.

(01:05:41):
Pull the brick out.
We're having lunch.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
Catch you in 20.
Can you imagine doing that toan apprentice these days?

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Just bloody go to jail.
Yeah, and I know, but I this iswhere I know that's what's so
difficult these days to get thebalance, to be able to get that
through to a generation that'sdifferent.
They're not an ill-perceivedgeneration, there's nothing,
they've got the skills.
But I just kind of thinksomehow they've got to be

(01:06:09):
instilled in them in a differentway than what we did um, which
that's what I'm trying to figureout, yeah, and I and actually
you're on a mission there and Idon't know I I have covered one
base.
Is that?
Um, if they're younger andyou're older, somehow you've got
to connect.
So you cannot be old fart, thegrumpy old shit that no one

(01:06:32):
wants to listen to.
You've actually got to be theold guy who's pretty cool, he's
all right.
God, he's a pain, he's a bitanal, he's just, oh, he's like
ACD, but he's all right.
So you've got to be a littlebit like that.
Yeah, so that's a difficultthing, I know, mate tell us.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
We'll um.
We'll wrap it up shortly, sorrytell us a bit about this world
skills um and what it's allabout now duane.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
one thing I'll say, and if the listeners, if a big
thing that you can do go outthere and google world skills
australia world skillsinternational now duane, and
Google WorldSkills AustraliaWorldSkills International Now
Dwayne and Shea have done thatand it would have opened a bit
of a world to them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Well, last year I got asked to be a judge for
carpentry at WorldSkills, butthe week they wanted me I was
away in Tasmania, so I never gotto do it, but it's something I
would definitely enjoy doing, Ithink.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Now a guy like Dwayne .
They're the sort of guys thatthey're after because they've
got a passion, they have aknowledge and it's one way that
you can pass it on to people.
So I am just Andrew Hoskingbricklaying.
Tomorrow I go back, get in thetruck off to work, but as a

(01:07:54):
part-time or as a voluntarything.
World skills australia um, theylook for passionate,
well-skilled up um employers ortrainers or tafe trainers
because it is affiliated withtraining to a certain degree and
thereafter people of a likemind who can instill good trade
qualities into every trade.

(01:08:15):
So you would have seen on thewebsite, it's every trade, it's
not exclusive to anything Everytrade.
Now, I started as a regionallevel but I was on the other
side of the fence.
I had apprentices who wereidentified by TAFE teachers and
one of them, bj I'll say beachum I'll.

(01:08:35):
I'll speak of bj um he's.
He's actually a carpenter now.
So he went through bricklaying.
He spent 14 years with me andhe came to me and he said I want
to do my carpentryapprenticeship.
So he left.
But while he was a bricklayerhe had a knack.
He had a good creative mind,good hand skills, good

(01:08:57):
mathematician.
It's really don't know wherethat come from, because
generally bricklayers aren't.
Yeah, we're not real good withthe maths, but, um, he went to
TAFE and in his training, uh,the teacher identified him and
said to me look, you want BJ togo on WorldSkills Regional Comp.
So all that's doing is it'sfostering the skills of a young

(01:09:18):
apprentice to learn more andgive more to the industry
through a competition.
So he's up against regionally.
We were Sunshine Coast, so thismight be Brisbane North, it
could be Brisbane South, itcould be Gold Coast, and it
travels all the way aroundAustralia.
So they get regionalcompetitions where they create a

(01:09:44):
predetermined project.
They have six hours to buildthat project.
Now the bricklaying judgesjudges of which I've been lucky
to become one we judge that andit's judged on measurement
measurement, uh, marking, andalso judgment marking, as in
your, to judge it with your eyes.
So it has a very uh, it has avery technical breakdown of

(01:10:10):
marking scale.
So that then, dwayne wins theregional competition.
All right, as a bricklayer,we'll call you a brickie.
So you win that competitionoutright and you're judged the
best job.
So then you'll move on to thenational competition.

(01:10:30):
So the national competition, sothe national competition, means
that you represent Queenslandin what was just the World
Skills National in Brisbane.
So you're a Queenslandbricklayer.
That was only a few weeks ago,wasn't it?
Yeah, only a couple of weeksago in Brisbane, and it was a
really successful event.
It's been in Brisbane beforeI'm going to say 2006.

(01:10:54):
So did they only?

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
do so.
They had that one in Brisbane.
That was all bricklaying,wasn't?

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Well, no, it was every trade.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Oh, they did have other trades, every trade.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
Because I saw a lot of the brickwork stuff but I
didn't see any other tradesthere.

Speaker 1 (01:11:04):
You know every trade Dwayne is part of it.
Visual, every trade duane is ispart of it.
Um, visual bricklaying isreally visual comp.
So we're kind of lucky.
We draw a good crowd and peoplelove to see what the creation
may be.
So at the one in brisbane Idesigned, I was lucky enough, I
got picked to design theprojects.
So the three projects were thefront facade of the town hall in

(01:11:30):
brizzy, then it was the StoryBridge with the Brisbane River
running under it, and then itwas the map of Queensland with a
lettering that said 2-5 beingthe year.
So they have 18 hours at anational level to construct that
.
Then those jobs are judged andthe winner will move on to

(01:11:53):
Shanghai next year, which is theinternational competition.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Now he'll represent.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Australia.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
It's really good for people to be striving to achieve
those types of things.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Yeah, and look, some people, Dwayne will look at it
and they'll go ah, look, it'sall right, but what a waste of
time.
Everyone's entitled to theirown opinion, but what I like
about it is it's probably aboutthe only outlet where a
bricklayer can go and strive forsomething better, more skilful,

(01:12:24):
at a different skill level andhe can up his skills.
So WorldSkills, Regional,national and International level
and he can up his skills.
So world skills, regional,national and international under
the world skills australiaumbrella.
Um, we'll go to shanghai nextyear and then we'll have one
bricklaying competitor.
There'll be one carpenter, yeah.

(01:12:45):
There'll be one plumber,there'll be one electrician.
They'll be in a team called theSkilleroos and it's like an
Olympic team, yeah, right, sortof.
It's sort of like aCommonwealth Games for trades.
What's the plumbers do?

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
I've seen what carpenters do on the brickies.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
They do a lot of modern plumbing work with the
acrylic systems or whatever theyare that the plumbers use these
days, as well as soldering.
Yeah, and they'll set out.
What would be in a house iscondensed to a wall.
Oh yeah, yeah, and it's anactual plan of which can be
judged, and all of thosecompetitors do the same thing,

(01:13:28):
yeah, so yeah, it just offerschallenges for a young tradie to
be all he meets.
We had 12 open bricklayers andthen they had eight vet in
school.
So vocational education,training in school bricklayers.
So those vet and schoolbrickies they got to see the
open bricklayers create.
So they're the bricklayers thatthose vet and school brickies

(01:13:50):
they got to see the openbricklayers create.
So they're the bricklayers thatare coming through.
So it's got an important, it'sgot a really important aspect
about it, mate what's what for?

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
the young people are listening that may be thinking
about getting into trade andbeing a brickie like.
What advice can you give them?

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
It's a great trade to get into.
In this day and age 25, 26, wereally do command the best money
that we've ever commanded in my40 years, you know, like
without a doubt it's our bestmoney, yet it's still relevant.
You're in Queensland, a boomstate, without a doubt.

(01:14:31):
The olympics is coming.
Whenever the olympic city ishere, we have an influx of
construction.
We have an influx of money.
Infrastructure has to be done,housing will boom.
There'll be a lot of commercialactivity going on in the city.
Uh, my guess would be br willbe like Sydney.
I didn't go, but I rememberprior.

(01:14:54):
I remember the Sydney Olympicsand I know construction-wise it
was huge in Sydney prior to theOlympics.
So it's a great industry andit's not Brickland's a great
industry to be into and it'screative, it's outdoor, it's
healthy.
You get to work with othertrades that are as close to the

(01:15:17):
builder as you can probably get.
In saying that, I always likethe fact that bricklayers work
with carpenters and work withbuilders.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
Mate and you end up to be, like you, 58 and have a
look at you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
you bloody bouncing out of the chair, hey fit
healthy working outdoors, it isgood and look, it's a lot of fun
and you get a good rapport withyour workers.
And I kind of like you're goingto laugh at this.
Bricklaying has a culture.
Now, I'm not talking about theculture of going to the pub, you
know a bit of a slob, a bit ofa downgraded culture.

(01:15:51):
Brickline is historic.
We are brickies, we're not justanything.
Brickline's a good trade.
Yeah, you know, it's beenaround for a long time and we'll
construct things, I think, inAustralia, for a lot more years
to come.
But I'd like to think that in atechnological world, that's

(01:16:11):
what's difficult, dwayne.
It's hard to be able to competewith technology, have you?

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
seen the trucks now that come to site and they lay
the bricks.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
Yeah, yeah and look that's amazing, but it won't
work in cottage work.
It's limited.
It's work, it's limited.
It's limited, it is limited, inthe perfect scenario, in
shopping centres and acontrolled environment, it will
work, can work and it has worked, but it's not cottage work and

(01:16:44):
it's certainly not architecture.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
That won't happen.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
It'll work for boxes, it'll work for boxes.
Architecture that won't happen.
It'll work for boxes it'll workfor boxes.
You know, and but I know atrades got to move forward.
But I think part of brick linesproblem is, if it could.
If the supply of brick layerswas there, brick laying as a
trade would still remainrelevant, because supply and
demand, if you can get them,still you'll use them From a

(01:17:12):
builder's point of view down thetrack.
If you can't get brickies, whatare you going to do?

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
I personally, mate.
I love bricks.
I think they're fantastic.
I think they're underutilizednow.
I think they're a good productto build with.
They're healthy to build with.
They're green.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
They recycle pretty well.
I don't know, they're a greatproduct.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
Even with the rates you're getting now, they're
still economical.
It's still a very economicalway to line a house.

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
That's right, and I say this before we wind it up.
This is something that youngpeople should take on board
Trades across the board.
I said it at the beginning thetertiary education thing is
super important, Mate,absolutely 100% important.
But vocational training everysingle trade is a really

(01:18:04):
important thing.
In a country like Australia,that's young and what happens is
, if you're not a child geniusand you're not going to go to UQ
, you can become part of aconstruction industry and you
can out-earn the UQers.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
Oh, definitely mate.
Most traders these days areout-earning them.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
That's it, and you've got no debt, mate.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
That's right.
They go and do do theirhigh-profile study and they're
paying off debt for years.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
Yeah, and if you're not real scholastic at school,
it's sort of I wasn't, I couldhave done better at school, but
that's the time and the place.
But I like now to learnsomething and I could sort of
really hone in on schoolworkmore now than what I did back
then.
I was probably more interestedin surfing.
But, um, I kind of look at itfrom a kid's point of view.

(01:18:53):
If he's not going to uni and hedoesn't get a real high score
at the end, he should beencouraged to go vocational, to
do a pathway to a trade.
Uh, whereas sometimes and thismight set people on the high

(01:19:13):
horse trades have become adumping ground for all the dumb
asses of school.
All right, and we're actuallynot.
No well, that's okay.
But but that's kind of what hashappened.
It's sort of like oh well, ifyou don't go to uni, you can
always get a trade.
Uh, it should actually be saidwrong.
It should be said differently.
It should be like if you don'twant to go to university, this

(01:19:36):
is a career pathway that youcould pursue mate, the world
would be nowhere if we didn'thave tradies.

Speaker 2 (01:19:41):
That's it but who?
Builds all the houses everyonelives in who builds all the?
Roads, everyone drives on whoyeah people.
It is something that, again,it's part of my mission.
We've got to improve theprofessionalism of the building
industry well, that's a goodmission and it's.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
It's not a mission that everybody is on.
So it's important, because whenwe're all gone, I sort of would
like to think that one of myapprentices in the past would
fly a good flag for their trade,not just a sort of substandard
one.
And then you know, I supposeyour job's done right.

(01:20:19):
Then you know, yeah, yeahdefinitely.

Speaker 2 (01:20:22):
Well, andrew, it's been an absolute pleasure having
a chat to you, mate.
I, uh, I've got a few ideas.
We'll, uh, I'm sure we're goingto do some more stuff together
in the future, but, um,appreciate you driving down,
taking the time to have a chat.
Um, mate, love your passion.
If one bit of advice I can giveanybody that's listening,
whether you're young or old, isyou've got to be passionate.
If you're not passionate,you're never going to be
successful that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
That's it.
And if you're enjoying whatyou're doing because I every now
and then get people go to meare you still bricklaying?
And I'm like is?
I don't say it to them, but Ithink to myself when I walk away
how is that a problem?

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
it's not mate.
It might be to them, but it'snot to you, like, like?

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
it'd be a problem if I was, if I was a problem to the
trade.
But if I like it, I don't seeit as a problem and I kind of um
think, uh, when I, when I'mlucky enough to have
opportunities like this, what Isay may not always be taken on
board by people and a lot ofpeople can have opinions.
That's cool.
But we're very lucky if yousort of like your trade, you can

(01:21:25):
promote your trade.
Yeah, you know, and I don'tthink that's a problem because,
god, brickland needs promotionit definitely does and I and
when I go away overseas or ifI'm in part of tafe, I want
those kids to keep going.
They might be a pain in the ass, like you.

(01:21:47):
You identify the kid over inthe corner.
You want to hit with a shovelall right, you know that.
But if you don't put some timeinto them, what are?
What are they going to do?
What are they going to become?
Yeah, you know, I had a fellowa little while ago, duane, say
to me um, we never take it onboard, but as a generation, each

(01:22:11):
generation, it actually is yourresponsibility to teach the
next one.
It actually is.
I know you think it's a burdenor a pain in the ass but it
actually is your job.

Speaker 2 (01:22:25):
I agree, mate.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
Because if you don't do it and he cocks it up.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
It's adding to the problem.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
Exactly I agree 100%.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
We could definitely go on another hour for it, I
feel.
Well, something that I'vebecome very aware of is good
tradesmen aren't good teachers.
We're not taught to teach.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
That is true.
It is hard to teach.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
It's hard to teach and it's a it takes time.
You've got to build a skill uplike.
You've got to be relatable topeople.
You've got to be able tocommunicate well with people.

Speaker 1 (01:22:55):
You've got to be able to listen to people, so
Actually that's a say, that's aripper thing.
That's actually right too,because it's sort of relevant to
what I said about businessbefore.
A good tradie is not always agood businessman.
I'm all right, I'm still here.
I haven't slid down the razorblade or anything like that, but
I probably could have done somethings differently.

(01:23:17):
But that's very true about theteaching thing.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
It's not easy and we're not trained like a teacher
yeah, like you know, like anagent, and most tradies just
want to go to work.
They want to do their thing.
Yeah, but one.
I'm really encouraging with myteam on site.
You've got to.
We've got to slow down a bit.
We've got to take the timeevery now and then to spend the
time to educate the young guys.
So we can't just be push, pushpush down the track.

Speaker 1 (01:23:45):
I've always been a batter for the apprenticeship
system.
It's a tough gig the four yearsand a lot of people go.
I couldn't put up with them forthat long.
But if you do, it paysdividends later.
Yeah, if you're a good boss andhe's a good employee, I've

(01:24:05):
always gone on.
If you scratch my back, I'llscratch yours.
So if my boys actually ask mefor a day off, if they give me
enough notice, I don't have aproblem with it.
But I also want you to hit thetennis ball back.
So you know, while we're atwork here and I ask you know,
guys, we're topping this walloff.

(01:24:26):
We're going to be another halfan hour.
We need to do that to pull down, to clean splashes and scaffold
.
You're going to be a bit longer.
Is everyone cool with that?
They all go.
Yeah, that's.
You gave, yeah, and then now Igive back.
So but it is difficult.
The teaching thing yeah, um, mywife reckons I wouldn't last
long in the teaching systembecause I'm a little bit

(01:24:47):
politically incorrect and I'dprobably end up in court.

Speaker 2 (01:24:50):
But oh, it's not hard these days, but it's yeah, but
I kind of like it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
I have a try, a skill thing coming up at Bundaberg,
at a job site in Bundaberg underConstruction Skills Queensland.
I won't change the recipe whenI turn up there.
That that grade 12 class.
I want them to respect me, butI also want them to have a good
day, all right.

(01:25:18):
So I don't want them to be ontheir phones.
Phones are no go, they gostraight in the bag.
So but they'll have a good daybecause, um, they'll get
something from the experienceand there might be one out of
those 15 who goes oh, that wasall right, I might ask a
bricklayer for a weekend job orsomething.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
I think more kids should be taking up bricklayer.
It's like going to the gym allday.
You're out in the sun, you'regetting fit and healthy.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
It's a good gig.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
Get into it.
So, look guys, andrew's alittle bit.
He's not on the socials andthat, so I can't give you the
socials.
Go and check him out Sorry.
We'll try and Shay might tryand work some of if you watch it

(01:26:06):
visually board with yourmerchandise.
Yet make sure you go to thewebsite duanepeircecom and that
way we can can help continue tolevel up this building industry.
See you on the next one.

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Don't Lay S*!t Bricks - 42 Years in the Industry.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Don't Lay S*!t Bricks - 42 Years in the Industry.