Don't Take it Personally, it's Just Business.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So how do you deal with builders that?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
don't pay bills.
I've seen builders on site andI've pulled up at the job site
and I've bailed them up on thescaffold in front of all their
boys, where the f*** is themoney.
Why haven't you paid thef***ing bill?

Speaker 1 (00:17):
G'day guys.
Welcome back to another episodeof Level Up.
We are back in the shed foranother cracking episode this
afternoon.
Before we get into today'sepisode, make sure you go and
check out our new website,duanepeircecom, and purchase the
Level Up merchandise.
We want to see every builderand tradie in Australia wearing
our merchandise, or anyone else.
If you want to get on boardwith it, go and check it out.

(00:38):
But today we have the husbandand wife duo of Abba Hart
Roofing.
This one's going to be anabsolute cracker because, uh,
mike, I know we see him on site.
He's the one on site kickingout and doing all the work.
And then his wife, justine.
I've only ever spoken on thephone until today, but she
always manages to crack me upand, uh, we have a lot of cool

(00:59):
conversations.
So, um, big welcome to you guys.
How are you?
Yeah, good good.
Thanks for coming on board.
We've actually got my wife,camille with us.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
I was going to say I'm here as well.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
We've actually got my wife, camille, with us today as
well, because today's episodeis going to be quite a bit
around husband and wife'sworking together in the building
industry, and this podcastcould go absolutely anywhere,
given my past conversation withJustine on the phone, so I'm not
even sure where to start.
But, like how you guys find theindustry at the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Well, everyone's saying it's getting quiet, but
we don't see it.
I guess.
I suppose we're lucky in therenovation sort of market.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
You know everyone's yeah, I'm not sure what people
are talking about, like it'syeah, but you talk to suppliers,
reps.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
you know such and such a squad or such and such a
closing up shop, but today we'repretty much booked out to
Christmas.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
We're just shut short .

Speaker 2 (01:56):
And booking into the new year?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Well, let's jump into like why I think that happens,
because we were having someconversation before we jumped on
today.
So we know we've got a lot ofgood topics to talk about.
But that comes back to you havea good duo, you have a very
good administration side.
You have a good site team.
Camille and I were just sayingbefore we started recording
today one of our selectioncriteria, I guess, for trades is

(02:24):
how well their administrationis and how much they, how
quickly they respond to us yeahand you guys do that really
really well and if Justinecalled, like Justine calls and
we go through stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
If there's any questions, like it's prompt,
it's not wait two weeks and thenask me a question yeah, it's
probably half an hour it's agood introduction to the project
.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
My logic is so I get plans in and if I get an email,
I'll save them and then I'll gointo the details and I'll write
it all down what everything isfor the job, and then, if I have
any, I'll put the plans into mysoftware and then, if I see
anything that's not, then I'mlike, oh, I should ask a
question, literally probablywithin a day.
Yeah, because I know that everyquestion you guys then have to

(03:07):
go to an architect.
Yeah, exactly, and ask those,and architects can take as long
as they take.
Yeah, nicely.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
That's true, yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
But how did you guys get to that, like you were just
saying, like how you got intothe industry?

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Well, what I yeah, I worked for a guy for a long time
, that sort of just, I guess,run its course, didn't happen,
you know, didn't sort of happenhow it was meant to, how he said
it was working for him and thenwent out on my own subbing and
then, you know, had a couple ofguys and we'd just go just
subbing to other roofingcompanies, got my QBCC license

(03:43):
and then obviously went on thejourney of running your own
supply and fit company.
At the start I used to do allthe quoting.
Justina do payroll, but I'll doall the quoting, I'll just do
everything.
How'd you learn to do that?
I just worked it out.
I should have asked a lot morequestions at the start.
Like there was like stuff thatI mean there's still stuff today

(04:03):
, like I'm still working out.
And that's probably one of mydownfalls is I don't reach out
to people and go, hey, fucking,what do you do here?
Or how would you do this?
I just worked it out.
And then justine was a nannyfor a long time and what that?
Just 20 years.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
I think I was with the same family in camp hill for
12 years holy Holy doy Yep,from the time the kids were
babies, like eight weeks old,and there were three kids over
that 12 years.
And then it got to the pointwhere Mike got too busy yeah,
and it was just, he was I thinkgot to a point where he was

(04:41):
quite literally too busy and alittle bit of not keeping up.
Yeah, and everyone gets to thatpoint.
I think they get to their peakand they're like whoa, I've got
to kind of do something to makea change, because this isn't
working.
He was up till 3 am quoting andthen going to work at six.
Yeah, and I'm like you can'tsustain it like this is not,
it's not a house.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Like, yeah, people that do it like it's not healthy
especially, yeah, danger money,you know how did you guys?

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I think it's good to talk about this because I
personally believe that theconstruction industry would fall
over if it wasn't for the wivesand partners that sit behind
the scenes, and a lot of, ormost of them are doing it for
free.
Yes, and when Camille?
It wasn't really planned.
When Camille came into ourbusiness either, I had an admin
lady that gave notice that shewas leaving and I'm like, fuck,
what are we going to do?

(05:23):
And camille was finishing upmaternity leave with her second,
still on maternity leave, andit's like, do I?

Speaker 3 (05:28):
go back, or do I think so?
I'm assuming you're in the samekind of position.
Um, what were you like?

Speaker 4 (05:34):
no, I was nannying, I was off a roof, I need to stop.
I was full-time nannying andthen I kind of said to him I've
kind of got, I've got to step inbecause you can't do it all.
You're getting behind andyou've got builders ringing you
it was letting people down.
It was bad.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
That's the tall and short of it.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
And, like a lot of men, when he got stressed, he
just did not.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
I thought I could just work my way.
I just thought, as long as I goto work every day and just keep
, just as long as I'm at workand I'm doing something, it's
going to be all right.
Long as I'm at work and I'mdoing something, it's going to
be all right.
We'll just get through it.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
But no, no not, and then he got behind and so I was
full-time nannying and thendoing all the quoting and stuff
amongst that, and then I thinkit was probably I think I left
my job July 22 because wefinally got to it.
Oh, you've only been into twoyears before that, so yeah so I
was working and quoting and theroofing queen of brisbane and

(06:29):
just like two years, everything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so so no, andit was, it was just.
And I think the bonus of thewhole husband wife thing is you
have the same goal.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, you're aiming for the same thing well, that
you guys do, and I think we donow.
We do now.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
We do now.
At the start I didn't.
I just thought I was a punchingbag, but you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
But you guys like, how did you guys work through it
?
Because I've talked about it alot Like when Camille came into
our business, back then I wasrunning a shit show.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Because this?
Well, what's this?

Speaker 1 (06:59):
It wasn't a complete shit show made well, the
building sort of thing was allright, but we weren't running a
good business like the first.
When camille made the decisionthat she was going to come in,
we thought like we're going tobe ahead of everyone else.
Free labor, and it's the worstthing did you get paid?

Speaker 3 (07:12):
justin, did you get paid?

Speaker 4 (07:14):
I only started getting paid when you left when
I left my job.
Yeah, yeah, so it was literallywhen I gave up my job full, so
that that how many years prior,not because I was getting an
income from nannying, but thenJuly 22,.
That was when we got to thepoint where we felt like the
business could support thefamily.
Yeah, because that's literallywhat it is.
Yeah, that's so good it is, youknow, supporting.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Because it's hard, isn't it Like people, like most
partners, are not getting paidin the business and, knowing
what we are now like, it'sobviously terrible for your
mental health.
Oh, totally.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
And you?
You just feel like you're notworth.
Why am I not being paid?
I'm doing a full-time job.
If I went somewhere else,they'd be paying me, yeah yeah
yeah yeah, I think yeah, formental health.
You have to do it, because beinga mum is also one of those jobs
where you're not paid and youdon't expect to be paid, but you
don't get a lot of recognitionbut yeah, and then, of course,

(08:11):
with a business and yourhusband's the person that
everyone sees you in thebackground, yeah, and if you
weren't getting paid, you'd belike, yeah, you know, I'm doing
these two jobs, yeah I do.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
I feel sorry for you guys because I like, obviously I
put myself out there a lotdoing this podcast and socials
and things.
But I'm very open and tellpeople all the time like
Camille's, the one running thisshow now Like the wheels would
fall off if she didn't do whatshe did, and I'm sure your
business is the same.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Oh, I'm always like I'll get phone calls from people
about scheduling and I'm juststraight away you gonna have to
ring justine, like don't, do nottalk to me about that.
Like I know where to be and Iknow when we've got to be there
and I know we've got to havestuff there.
But if you ring me going right,we're going to be ready this
day.
You know it might be two monthstime, it's gone.

(08:58):
It's gone.
Like yeah, like send the email,send it to justine.
She'll put it in the calendarand when, when it gets close,
we'll be like you're right,we've got this coming up.
That might overlap, we'll haveto.
You know, do a bit of juggling,but generally you run a tight
ship.
I guess she does.
She does Keeps us all honest.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
She does very well.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
I can't believe you've been only doing it for
two years and I walked in like,literally, quite honestly, I had
to print out a photo of thecomponents of a roof.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
When I started I was going to say I didn't even know.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
I didn't even know what a ridge cap was.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah or fascia.
I remember someone saying getthis something with fascia.
I'm like fascia.

Speaker 4 (09:34):
Yeah, that's right.
Like I had a photo and I lookedat it.
I was like rightio.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
And then I said this and he's like, and he was doing
it with a ruler and a piece ofpaper, so I just do all my
meterage and stuff I justprinted out.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
I just knew it worked and and I came in and I was
like that's not happening and Igot you know the software and
paid the hundred and somethingdollars a month because it is
really quick, like with that ifyou're not doing a full deed
like a massive job, yeah.
But yeah, I literally knewnothing.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, and he wasn't very helpful.
Oh look.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
He was like oh look, you'll just, and I'm like what
if I make a massive mistake?
There's been a, you know,there's been a couple of doozies
.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah, there's been a couple, but it's just all gross.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
It's a learning curve .
Yeah, I call it uni fees.
Now, like so many traders andbuilders whinge about these big
losses they've had, but like youthink about uni students and
that that go to college foryears, have I don't know, 140,
$200 hex debts and things Likeour fuck-ups are our uni fees?

Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah, a couple of double orders and you know, yeah
, it's been you know, wrongcolour, wrong profile.
Few and far between, though nowWe've kind of got been, you
know, wrong colour, wrongprofile, few and far between,
though now We've kind of got it,you know.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
But I mean everyone does it.
It's a part of getting the jobdone.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
I guess and it's a big part of us being aware of
that, isn't it?
Like I'm really big on tellingour team on site now, especially
the younger guys like I don'tcare if you fuck up, like fuck
ups are how you're going tolearn.
Just don't make them over andover.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
and over again.
That's right.
You gotta own.
If you own your fuck up and belike all right, I fucked up, why
did I do it?
This is why you did it right.
I try you know, don't do itnext time or you'll know.
You'll know, if you do thatnext time, this is going to be
the result.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
So yeah, like first time, okay, it is what it is.
Second time what's going onhere?
Third time, it's coming out ofyour pocket that's right yeah
yeah, like you've got to givepeople opportunity to learn.
Hey, like if you're.
I think a lot of people arescared to learn because they're
worried about getting their asskicked or not not even having a

(11:41):
go because they're worried aboutthe outcome yeah, and I think,
like he said, um, a lot of it isnot wanting to ask questions
and it's the only like whenyou've got kids.

Speaker 4 (11:50):
I think two-year-olds ask on average 265 questions a
day and you had two of them.
And that's how they learn, likeit's literally how they learn.
So if you don't ask questions,you're not going to learn.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Well, yeah, you don't ask if they don't know.

Speaker 4 (12:01):
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, that's what I've said to Don't.
I was lucky.
We had trades that were nicealmost them because I would ring
and be like I'm really sorry,but what is this?
Yeah, and they'd take the timeto answer it.
So I've just realised maybe weneed to start a tradie wife
course on how to do takeoffs.
That could be our next thing.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
just yes, because I had no idea but yeah, we just
get thrown in the deep end.
That's right, and that's thesame.
It's a communication as well.
It's.
Another thing is between us, Ithink, because we know each
other so well, that, oh, we knowwhat you're thinking.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
So this is yeah, yeah , well, I mean I can remember
one of my one of my favoritecomments were to study the plans
, you need to study the plans.
Comments were just study theplans, you need to study the
plans, you need to study theplans.
Just look at the plans, look atyour elevations, look at the
elevations, look at yourschedule.
What's she looking at, though?

Speaker 4 (12:54):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
But here I am going, I'm on site and then she's
ringing me and nearly crying.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
I don't know what to do.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
I'm it.
And the next thing you knowyou're having an argument and
then you get home and youfucking hate each other.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
And you haven't even seen each other.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, the only reason I made that comment is I used
to do the same thing to Camille,Like she'd be ringing me to
sort shit out and I'd be goinggo to page 3-00.
Like, look at it.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
I didn't even know what 3-00 was.

Speaker 4 (13:20):
I'm reading gibberish right now.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
What stupid methods of naming numbering plans 3-00.
It's all this and then if youlook at that, that cuts that to
that plan.
I'm like I'm out, I'm out, yeah.
I don't want to know.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, but they're like, yeah, our industry would
fall over if it wasn't for wivesand partners helping out behind
the scenes.
So I think there's a lot ofrecognition that needs to.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Talked about there.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
But look, I know there's a lot of like I tell
traders and builders now, likeyou cannot do it on your own.
Like, figure out whatever.
Like increase your prices,figure out your overheads, do
whatever you need to do, but youneed to get someone to help you
, like, whether it is yourpartner, and if it is, they need
to get paid or get a VA or getadmin or get something.

(14:02):
But you can't go to work, slogyour guts out all day on the
tools and then try to quote docontracts, payroll, like all
that shit of a night time, likeit's a recipe for disaster.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
I get so many emails from 3am onwards.
I know from our builders, frommany of our small builders that
we work for, and I say to themhow do you function?

Speaker 3 (14:23):
yeah, it's how do you get up at 3am?
It's really common, it's reallycommon.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
I talk to a lot of people now that I say, yeah them
, how do you function?
Yeah, it's so important, how doyou get up at 3am?
It's really common.
It's really common.
I talk to a lot of people andthey'll say, yeah, I'm in the
office from 4.
Yeah, and then you know, 6o'clock I'm in the car off to
site.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Four to five.
There's like Threes.
I've had quite a few threeslately.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
And these guys on the phone they're like where do we
find it, justine, that's thething.
They don't need to have afull-time person.
It could be a day a week or twodays a week, and it could be
two days, two half days a weekthat they can then make sure
that they're in the office from12 till 4 with no interruptions,
to get that done.
Like I spoke to a builderyesterday and I said he goes oh,
how long do you reckon it'lltake to do this type of house
for a quote?
And I'm like, look, it's veryhard for me to judge, depending

(15:06):
on how you do it.
But I said if you turn off yourphone, turn off your emails,
turn off everything and just getit done, then you'll get it
done.
It's not going to take you twoweeks, because that's the thing,
if we're in the office andwe've scheduled out time for
quoting guaranteed there,guaranteed there's a million
phone calls and we try and do it.
But you need to focus that timeto do it.

(15:26):
And if they can just do acouple of hours, Uninterrupted.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
That's the major problem.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Like with our software business, like Camille
does all the training with thatand I resonate with them because
I used to do it.
But like some of the stuff thatbuilders and tradies are trying
to do on their own is justinsane, like it's going to burn
them out, like.
And then I don't know if yougot to a point, mike, but like
you, you just lose your passion,like you start.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Oh, he was burnt out, he was gone.
There was, yeah, yeah, therewas that.
And then I got screwed by abuilder and then that was that
was like a five-year battle, andlike in the middle of that, I
questioned I was like why the amI doing this?
Yeah, but when I first started,I was like how good's this?
This is awesome.
Like, yeah, I'm doing it.

(16:13):
And then, like halfway throughthat, I was going there's got to
be a bit like the why am Idoing this?
Like this is how to you know,how do people do this?
And and it's like this isfucking bullshit.
How do people fucking do thisshit?
It's the business, though,isn't it?
It's just.
I think it's one thing I've hadto teach myself is like
business is business, it's notpersonal.

(16:35):
Like when that person goes home, at the end of the day, they
don't give a fuck what you'redoing.
They couldn't give a shit, youknow, or a customer.
It's like once that job's done,they don't give a shit, unless
there's a fucking leak.
They don't care what you'redoing.
Like you know, like they'redone with you.
That's it.
Yeah, move on.
Yeah, I just, yeah, questioned,yeah, I questioned why I was

(16:59):
doing it.
Yeah, but I was like you've justgot to tell yourself right,
this is not personal, it isbusiness um switch off, I guess
like yeah like it's hardsometimes to switch off, but
I've had to sort of tell myself,right, it'll be there tomorrow,
it's going to be there the nextday, it'll be there the day
after that.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
To just yeah, I suppose don't be so hard on
yourself sometimes do you findhaving like working with justine
, like just being able to pickup the phone every now and then
and say like whether it's a goodthing or a bad thing, like just
being able to have that chat?

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Oh, we'll talk.
Sometimes I'll talk two orthree times a day just about
fucking.
I don't know whatever's goingon or what's something on the
side, or you know like, yeah, ithelps, it helps.
It's like I guess you just vent, yeah, Like, oh, fucking, this
happened and he didn't fuckingshow up for work today.
And for fuck's sake, Like youknow, it's always it's raining.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
Yeah it's always a day when you see, don't even say
the word Dwayne, You're notallowed to say that word.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
But it's.
I can't imagine what you guysare like.
It can be the lightest rain andI wake up in the night, and
especially if we've got concreteor something coming up.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Oh, yeah, I cannot go back to sleep.
That is the one thing thatstill stresses me out.
If there's heavy rain like ahuge downpour, I just sit and I
just wait, you wait for thephone to ring.
It's not often, admittedly,pretty lucky with the board,
like my guys on site.

(18:28):
They know They've got the samecare I've got, like they
actually care about the job.
It's not like, right, I've justgot to get through today and go
home and then I'll come do ittomorrow.
Like actually they give a shit,they care about what happens
and so they take the care to.
You know, try and forecast,right, if I do that it's going

(18:48):
to leak.
So we'll do it like this.
Yeah, so I haven't.
I suppose we haven't had.
I haven't had a major leak, likeI haven't had a major leak
where someone's just dropped thephone, lost a ceiling or
something.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
But work like as builders most of the time we've
still got something to fall backon Inside or something yeah,
but if it rains, you're out.
Oh, gutters.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Nah, we're lucky because we do a little bit of
cladding so we might have like acladding job going and it'll be
like the back end of that sothey can go do some cat window
flashings or downpipes.
So it's should.
I don't think they've had.
They wouldn't have had a rainday for a while.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Not for a while.
Well, that's Josie, we've gotsmart.
Yeah, I was going to say you'rescheduling, you're moving
things around.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
I always say to the boys look, you don't have to go
to work in it.
It's up to you.
If you want to go, get thehours in, all good, but don't
feel like I'm like you have togo to work.
It's raining, I don't give ashit.
I mean, I grew up in NewZealand.
Roofing in New Zealand it'slike just another day of
trudging through the mud, justdon't fall off.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
So what is it Like?
You wouldn't be able to layanicon and lay roof sheets in
rain, would you?

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Oh, like, if you've got a day of, say, it might rain
at 11 o'clock, you're not goingto call your day off, you go,
all right, well, we'll just dowhat we can.
It rains, get off the roof,wait it out and then jump back
up and, yeah, just get back intoit.
Um, I know there's a lot ofguys that are like what is the
old?

Speaker 3 (20:20):
two drops on the tally yeah, yeah, like, yeah,
you know tires screeching.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah, see you later back tomorrow but, yeah, I think
we've learned that, like everytime it rains, you get more and
more behind.
Yeah, so we've tried to get it,so we've got things in the
background that we can revert to, ie cladding down pipes.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
So you're not screeching holes, there's rain.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
You know I'll start worrying about you.
Every time it rains and Ialways think oh, poor Justine,
God, two days of rain.

Speaker 4 (20:51):
We've had so much rain in the last couple of years
that it's just you have to kindof come up with a new master
plan well, that's the thing youhave to just switch gears and
figure it out.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Hey, yeah, I know you can't just stop yeah, you've
got to come up with somethingwhen it's raining for four weeks
straight.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
You can't just go.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
You know, pull pin yeah, it's like it's not just um
I think you guys probably takethis, the series as we do like
it's not just us that getsaffected.
Like we know, our team's gotbills to pay and needs to show
up so they can get paid and allthose types of things.
So it is like running abusiness in the construction
industry is pretty stressfulwhen you take all that into
consideration.
And then, like you say, one dayof rain and it'd be worse for

(21:29):
you guys, because if you get oneday of rain, I don't know, you
guys probably work for 20 or 30builders, I assume.
So all those builders getaffected by rain.
That's right.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
It pushes everyone back.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, one day ends up being a week of like just.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Shuffling.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, delays.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, so how do you keep everyone happy with that?

Speaker 4 (21:47):
You just no, I won't say you don't Try your best.
Then you've got the builders.
So then you've got the builderswho forget that it's rained and
they think we're still in ourspot and I'm like have you
forgotten?
It rained four days ago, likeyou should know.
If it rains, it's not just yougetting pushed, it's everyone
after that day of rain, likeit's.
You know, it's just got tohappen.

(22:07):
Because you can't prioritize,you just have to say right, this
is it.
Everyone move a day.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah how do you go with employees?

Speaker 2 (22:15):
like that's the one thing that that fucking kills me
.
That's.
That's probably the one thingthat takes up the most time in
my brain during the day.
Yeah, like I'll fucking look atyour phone in the morning.
You're like, oh yeah, you got atext from so and so I'm not
coming in, fucking all right.

(22:36):
So then you got a text fromso-and-so I'm not coming in,
fucking all right.
So then you've sent one of themoff here to do a one-man job
and you've sent three of themoff to do a three-man job.
Now there's only two.
Then you've got, well, you know, a three-man job, but
two-and-a-half blokes show up,but then it's only one a half
blokes when old mates call insick.

(22:56):
So it's a juggling act.
The problem with roofing it'slike a whore trade.
People just move around, theydo not.
Not really, there's not like Imean, like I said, I'm super
lucky with the guys.
I've got One of the guys thatworks for me.

(23:17):
I've either worked with him orhe's worked for me for the last
12 years, so I know what toexpect.
He knows what to expect.
And then one of them's familyQuite literally.
Then I've got a.
Well, he's not the apprenticeanymore, he's the tradesman and
he's good.

(23:37):
If they say they're going to dosomething, they do it.
They're the kind of guys thatwill.
They'll do the extra hour inthe afternoon To get that job
done so they don't have to goback the next morning.
And without those guys I'd befucked.
You couldn't, you just wouldn'treplace them, like, like you

(23:58):
couldn't find anyone to replacethem how's?

Speaker 1 (24:01):
um, look, because a lot of time the employees don't
understand that.
Do they like if one of them andlook people get sick, I get
that, but like they don'tunderstand that it you have to
reschedule things, like ifyou've got your day planned and
there's a certain amount of guysthat you've allowed to do a
certain job and then you'veallowed a certain amount of
money to get that job done, allthose types of things like it
throws a whole spanner in theworks and then all of a sudden

(24:22):
you've got to reschedule thingsand reorganize things.

Speaker 4 (24:24):
Like that's what they don't get is the scheduling
side of things.
They don't understand thatwe've told a builder that we're
going to be there tomorrow, yeah, with three guys to lay a roof,
and then, if only two turn up,that's us behind schedule from
the get-go yeah because we'reonly getting two-thirds of the
work done, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
So one thing I'll try and not do I used to do when I
was a subbie, and when I was Iwasn't.
I was just angry on site, justlike, fucking, hurry go, fuck,
we're gonna get this fuckingdone.
You're like, because you'relike subbie, you got to get to
the next job.
You're just just trying to turnthem over.
One thing I've just told myselfyou just do not say like this

(25:03):
has to be fucking done today,like you never put a time stress
on them, because that is likethat's the worst I've found is
if you say, fuck, this has gotto be fucking done today because
we've got to get to thisfucking next job and we've got
to get to the next one afterthat, that's like that will
start affecting them and they'llbe fucking just start dragging
the chain and it just like thewhole atmosphere just yeah,

(25:25):
change.
Because I've showed up to sitelike fuck, we've got this done.
Who the fuck was it not done?
And they're like, oh, fucking,yeah, fuck, why is he being a
cock?

Speaker 4 (25:34):
why have you been here?
Why aren't you fucking?

Speaker 2 (25:37):
helping.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
So one thing I'll like I always I just I try and
give them more than enough timeand that's worked like wonders,
do you ever put it on them andlike say, hey boys, how long do
you reckon this is going to takeus today, or whatever, like
give them a bit of input into.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
I'll always have a chat with them in the arbo.
I'll say how'd you get on, um,where are you at like?
Just so I know for like.
So if you're, if you're ahead,then I know all right well, so
they might get to that job early.
So I've got to make sureeverything's sorted for that.
I'll always have a conversationwith them, try, and you know
they can pretty much tell mewhere they're at.
Yeah, um and and.
Then you know you sort of justgo from there.
But every day is different.
Like you might have.
You know you might have twoweeks of just everything's just

(26:23):
going super smooth oh, howgood's this and then fucking,
just a week.

Speaker 4 (26:27):
The wheels fall off.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Just like, oh, fucking white me, like, what
have I done to deserve this?
But I imagine that's everyone.
Yeah, but I imagine that'severyone.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, well, I think that's just part of it, because
everyone that used to eat me upand I'd be ringing Camille on
the same thing like what thefuck?
Why are we doing this?
Let's pack up, let's fuckinghit the road.
But there's so many movingparts, like it's not just us.
One thing I've definitelylearned like you don't know if
they've had a fight with theirpartner that morning, or their
kids have been sick that night,or there's so much shit going on

(26:58):
in people's lives these daysand everyone's flat out and
they're eating shit food.
Like you don't know whatthey're dealing with.
Yeah, so when you crack theshits and start to put more
pressure on them, yeah, it'smore pressure in general on.
Yeah, sometimes it just yep,fuck, the wheels are off, like,
and then your whole day shitlike, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
You start off shitting it and shitting it A
week's shit, and then it's yeah,it just keeps going.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
Yeah, yeah, it does, and I think with the time
restraints, like how he doesn'tgive them time, it's like he
doesn't put a number on itdays-wise.
That also helps with quality,because you're not in a hurry
and that's kind of how we base.
That's not in a hurry, yeah,that's kind of how we base.
That's what he lives by, isdoing a good job.

(27:41):
Yeah, like he he kind of hassaid to me in the past you know,
if I know it's not right, Iknow it's not right if there's
something he said, just becausenot everyone sees the roof, that
doesn't mean it's not thereyeah he said so I will go back
and do it or get them to redo itor tweak it, so I know it's
done properly oh it's.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
That's cost me a lot of money over the years, but,
like I just go, sometimes it'sbetter to just go.
All right, that needs to befixed.
Let's just get what we need andthen you just put it behind you
rather than going fuck.
It's gonna cost me this fuckingx amount of fucking dollars to
get it fixed, because, fucking,why don't?
Sometimes it's easy, you justgo fuck, it's fucked.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
All right, let's just fucking fix it, move on well
I've known about other builders,but like that's why I would
keep people like it, becauselike it might have cost you
money at the time to make therepair.
But like I as a builder, Iwould see that and I go for fuck
.
He's just doing all my workbecause I just know he takes
pride in what he's doing.
So yeah, even though you'velost a bit of money to do that,
you're going to get all theother new work that's right,

(28:36):
yeah, yeah, you've got a.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
I think it's like, yeah, you've got to look two
years down the track, yeah wellI do think there's a lot of
trades out there that go theother way, but you're like oh,
that's that, can stay like that,oh you see it all the time,
like like we need to work forlike a lot of different builders
and like like me and the boyswill sit there and we'll have a
chat about oh fucking, how was acarpenter and that was fucking
terrible.

(28:58):
And then, oh, oh, fuck, yeah,like you know, they do a good
job, or, um, one of my guys islike big on like a clean site.
Yeah, like if if he shows up toa like a job and it's like just
a clean site, he's happy to bethere, like he.
He's like sweet yeah, how good,clean site, fucking not
tripping over shit, all goodshows up to a fucking messy site
.
He's like sweet yeah, how good,clean sight, fucking not
tripping over shit, all goodshows up to a fucking messy site

(29:19):
.
He's like, oh, he's fuckingidiots.

Speaker 4 (29:22):
You know fucking shit everywhere and shit scaf and
yeah fuck this, it just yeah, itliterally puts him in a bad
mood yeah, that's, yeah, yeah,yeah, so that's his one little
trick that's his thing.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yes, he's, yeah, but but that is just that's him,
just throughout his life.
Life, yes, that's the person heis and he is like, I mean his
quality is how do you go findingstuff?

Speaker 1 (29:47):
We're just finding it harder and harder and harder to
find good quality stuff.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
Yeah, we advertise often and get one or two hits,
which usually turn into nothing.
Shit, yeah, Like you know,eight weeks in and Mike's like
hits, which usually turn intonothing.
Yeah, like you know, eightweeks in and Mike's like right,
I've had enough.
Yeah.
It's not worth it.
There's nothing.
Stick with what we've got.
Stay smaller, yeah, keep on topof it.
And then when someone comesalong, I've found the best way
to do it is to not look oh, 100%.

(30:12):
I was just about to say Waitfor them to come to you.
And then it seems to be theywant it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
They reach out, they're like, hey, I love your
stuff, is there any opportunity?
And you're like, oh, not rightnow, but I'll call you in a
couple of months or whatever.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Well, we've had that and I don't know people might
take this the wrong way orwhatever.
But I just feel like a lot ofthe younger people that are
thinking they want to get intotrades.
Like you get them on site andlike a couple of days and
they're like fuck, don't we sitin every half an hour?
Don't I get to look at my phone50 times a day?
Yeah, oh shit.
Do I have to work till 4.30?
Like it's, yeah, you're lookingat me pretty strange there.

Speaker 4 (31:03):
Yeah, no, it's Well yeah, the young guys.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, I've had young guys and they've.
So.
I had a young guy start of theyear.
He left the first.
He quit on me the first week.
It rained right after Christmasand we're doing a job.
It was like we had a timerestraint on this job.
It was a daycare centre.
They were opening up on thisdate.
We had a window.
The weather was fuckingatrocious.

(31:28):
It was just like that was theworst first job back I've had in
fucking.
I think, as long as I canremember the young fella, had he
just stuck it out.
Yeah, I was about to say hewould have been like he would
have been great, it would havebeen great, he just needed to
stick it out.
But he quit on that first week,obviously, working in the rain,

(31:48):
just shit, uh, and what did hedo?
He was gonna go.
You know the trampolines in themalls and they had the kids on
the trampolines.
Yeah, he was gonna go do thatand he was good.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
He did have what it took.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
But why is it?
Why not just stick it?
No, resilient, like what is?

Speaker 2 (32:02):
it, there's no resilience they just, they just
see like the easy road, likethat's easy.
I get to stand inside, hooksome kids up, chuck them on the
tramp for their 10 minutes,whatever next I mean that's a
happy job, they're having fun.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
They all want to be a tradie like that.

Speaker 4 (32:20):
That's right yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
And they don't want to put in the yards to get to
that point?
Yeah, but everyone's got to dothe hard yards.
That's how we all learn.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
That's right, yeah, but I don't know.
Is it parents aren't being hardenough on their kids or is it
like what is it?
Is it?
Is it social media?

Speaker 3 (32:40):
going oh, I can go be a youtuber or I can.
It's instant gratification.
A lot of the times I think,like our daughter sorry, lilly
going into teenage years, likewe are like that's great and
you've done really well.
And we're always telling her aslong as you try, it doesn't?
You know, we don't care aboutthe results.
As long as you're putting inthe effort and you're trying and
we can see that you're doing it, that's fine.
But if we give her constructivecriticism like oh, you could

(33:03):
have done that better, you couldhave done that, like I know
she's hormonal, but it's likethe end of the world.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
We don't just let her go.
That's cool, everything's okay.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
Everything's positive .
It's all fluffy and rainbow.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
I got in trouble on the weekend because they were in
the netball finals.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
My 37-degree heat.
Four things were dying.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
And I got in trouble by everyone.
I say shit how it is.
And they had training on theFriday night.
And at the training on theFriday night, three-quarters of
the team is already talkingabout they're going to lose, and
so I'm like girls it's mindset,don't worry about how hard you
play.
It's mindset.
And then they didn't play verywell and at the end of the game

(33:43):
they were asked how did theyplay?
And they said great.
And I said fucking bullshit.
No, you actually played shitand you lost the game before you
started and I got in trouble.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
Because you went into it with a negative mindset, but
yeah, I found that really hotthe whole season.
I'm like you weren't even meantto be in this division.
No one thought you should be inthis division.
You proved them wrong.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
You've come from second, last place to be third
and you made the finals andthey're like, yeah, but we're
still going to lose.
I'm like oh yeah, that there.
That's like setting yourself upfor failure.
That's what you think, that'swhat you're gonna get.
That's what you're gonna get.
Yeah, if you say, no, we'regonna go out, we're just gonna
fucking give it a best crack,yeah and fucking, but I find
that a lot with the young peoplethat it is that instant

(34:31):
gratification.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Like they, they want.
They want to become the tradiea lot quicker than it takes.
Like even I.
I'm not sure about your trade.
I'm imagining it's pretty muchthe same, but in four years.
There is no way that someonefinishes a carpentry
apprenticeship in four years andknows everything about
carpentry Like you've got tophysically get out there and do
it yourself and make mistakes.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Well, what do they say?
It's 10,000 hours to be amaster of your trade.
Yeah well, that's way more thanfour years.
Yeah, that's like.
What would that I mean?
Don't even.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
I'm maths-minded, but I'm not that maths-minded.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
You know 38-hour week , times that by 52.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
Yeah, well, it's like our apprentice that's just
qualified.
Yeah, like Mike always says,you know he's now a tradesman,
but he doesn't know the wholetrade.
He's got another probably fouryears on top of what he's just
done to actually get to a pointno, it's constant learning.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
So they need to be told that after the four years,
yes, you may be qualified.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yes, but you are never going to stop learning
they want to finish their timebecause they want the paycheck
that's right, they want yeahyeah, they want the big paycheck
because they want to know whatthe noise is in the shed that's
going on I heard chickens before, but I don't think that was a
chicken dog, but probably walteryeah, they want to.
They want to get that sign offas quickly as possible so they

(35:46):
can earn more money.
But they, like you've got I'mnot sure about you, mike, but
like I when I finished my timelike you still had to earn your
weight as a tradesman, like youstill had to prove that you knew
what you were doing and youstill had to put in the hard
yards.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
Oh, 100% Like.
It was like when I was younger.
It was like to have a job.
It was like a privilege to havea job, like you've got a job In
New Zealand.
You fucking do everything youcan to not fuck this up, but now
it's like like it's a privilegefor us to have you working for
us, so you quit.

(36:20):
Yeah, oh, you, you know someonemight quit.
And then, yeah, they do.
They just chase the money.
Yeah, just check.
But they might be shit at whatthey do, yeah, but they might be
good at shit talking.
So they shit talk their wayinto good money and you know,
but they still don't shit work,yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
So it's like we just said, like, because I think
that's definitely somethingthat's lost, like I, I that I,
my personal opinion is that youshould be grateful that you have
a job.
Like it doesn't matter whatlevel you are apprentice, trader
, supervisor, whatever like youshould be respectful of the
company you work for and showthat you're grateful to have a
job like because it is aprivilege, isn't it, to have a

(37:01):
job.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Well, you think how many I I try and like sometimes
when I'm having a fucking badday and nothing's going right.
I think like you got to thinklike there's probably 10 000
people that would just fuckinglove to be in my position, like
like they would give anything tobe in my position, and then
you're here going fuck this andfuck that and that's your shit,

(37:22):
but you gotta, I was gonna fuckher.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Oh well, it's actually not that bad yeah, it's
just a bad day, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we are very lucky thatthat's right.
Well, I say lucky, but we'veall worked very hard to get
where we are.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah, we've created our life, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah, you've got to create yourown luck.
Yeah, but yeah, I don't know.
I just find I worry a bit aboutwhere the industry is going to
go because, like personally, Ithink it goes right back to
school.
I think there's got to be morepunishment, like people need to.
If you do something wrong,there needs to be punishment for
it, because they get no thesedays.

(38:02):
They get no these days.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
They get no punishment, even if it's
detention, things through school, like the cane and shit, like
we didn't do shit, because I cansee you, like justine, over
there, but we never got the canedid you get the cane.
Yeah, I never got the girlsschool over here.
I did too, but I think I mighthow old are you?

Speaker 4 (38:12):
I'm old, I'm gonna say we won't say don't go there,
like getting that yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, it's a bit of a fear factor.
It taught you that if you didsomething wrong, there was a
consequence for it.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
There's a consequence .
That's right.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yep, and like you see it now, like even like at
schools and things, and then,like you see all these Northside
crew and these young gangsgoing around like right, oh well

(38:46):
, this is our start time, thisis when we have smoko, this is
when we finish, this is what wedo and they're just really
casual because at school they'reallowed to do whatever they
want, but feel like there's no,there's nothing setting them up
to be successful in in lifethere's no major rules anymore.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
Yeah, there's no.
If you do this, this willhappen yeah, is it?

Speaker 2 (39:05):
I mean, is it a case of as well parents are busy,
just just trying to?
Just a hundred percent, yeah, Ithink that's a big part you
know, muddle along, get throughit like they're, like you know,
and maybe because everything isjust so fucking fast-paced- yeah
, it is.
It's like fucking here, there,everywhere, like there is maybe
sort of back.
You know 80s, 90s it was a bitslower and like Lungs were at

(39:28):
home.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Like everything's sort of changed.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, yeah, a bit more, yeah, like a bit more time
.
Like the old man, he'd fuckinggive you a fucking hiding.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah, you were scared , though I was scared of my kids
I think your dad gets home frommilking.

Speaker 4 (39:43):
That's what I used to hear.
You can't hit kids.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
It's like, well, one of our kids, you give him a
smack on the ass and he'll go.
That's child abuse.

Speaker 4 (39:51):
Literally, literally.
I haven't seen a child do thatyet.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
But it's, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
And that's what they're seeing on social media,
because people are putting onsocial media that your parents
aren't allowed to hit you,they're not allowed to do this,
they're not allowed to do that,and it's like you know, take a
phone off them, wait till theyget phones and you take a phone
off them.
I was just going to say that is.
One thing I say is I'll takeyour phone and I'm like, oh my
god, we're living in a worldwhere, yeah, the first
punishment is taking your phone.
Yeah, it's crazy like it, youknow, oh, but our second to the

(40:22):
phone would be the bike, becausethey live on their bikes so I'd
like to do that at work.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
There's nothing to do more than everyone just sitting
on their phones at smoker, likewhat happened to old school
just conversation.
Hey mate, what'd you do on theweekend?
How's the kids?
What are you doing?
What was it?

Speaker 2 (40:35):
yeah, it's a football yeah I find myself sitting
there and I'll be like, hey,I'll be on my phone too, and
then I'll look up and I'll belike this is fucking sad.
Yeah, no one's actually havinga conversation or you know
talking shit.
Yeah, they're just fucking.
Yeah, I mean I'm bad for it.
Yeah, I think we all sort ofwell it's.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
It's become so common that you like if no one else is
communicating.
What are you going to do?

Speaker 4 (40:59):
That's right.
If you're sitting there withsix people, and five of them on
their phones, what are yousupposed to do?
Talk to yourself.
Yeah, like sit there and lookat the clouds.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah, maybe we should have a site phone box.
No one has put their phones ina box.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
Actually, when I picked the kids out from school
today it was like, oh, there'sactually a lockbox with 20
phones in it in the office.
There's lots of kids that taketheir phones and they have to
put them in the lockbox, or theygot busted on their phones
Maybe.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
But, that's the thing .
Lottie's at high school andwhen she, I happened to pick her
up one day randomly and I wastrying to call her to say look,
I'm out the front, don.
And I was trying to call her tosay, look, I'm out the front,
don't go to the bus.
And she wasn't answering herphone.
And I was getting so frustratedbecause she wasn't answering
her phone because every girlthat walked out of their school
was like this and she finallyrang me back she's like what's

(41:45):
wrong, mum?
And I said are you the onlygirl at this school that does
not have her phone on her facethe minute you walk?
She's like I don't touch untilI get on the bus and I'm like
I'm down the front of the schoolarea and then I felt really bad
because she's obviously talkingto her friends instead of being

(42:06):
on her phone yeah, and I'mfreaking out because I'm holding
up the car line at the front ofthe school.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Yeah, but yeah, I was like it's awful it is crazy the
way the world's going with allthat sort of thing.
But like to move on to anothertopic, like how do you guys find
like you guys get to work for alot of different builders so
you see a lot of shit ones, Iimagine and good, like how do
you, as subbies, pick and choosethe builders you're going to
work for?
Like what, what's things tolook out for?
How do you know you're going toget paid?

Speaker 4 (42:28):
should I give them my answer, or do you want to give
them yours?
no, no, you give them yours, doboth perspectives um, what I do
is literally give them onechance.
So he goes in there, does thejob and if it goes nicely and
everything's, you know there'sgood communication, deposits are
paid on time, no one taking 20photos when we're halfway
through a job and picking itstuff and then calling me, then

(42:52):
we'll do another job for them.
Yeah, but if we get to thepoint where we're halfway
through and it's like, oh my God, why did we do it, that's when
we say this will be our one andonly.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Oi, yeah, yeah, a big thing for like us on site is.
So you go have a site meetingwith someone like you put time
aside to go have a site meeting,go over the job.
Like'll always try and meetsomeone there, like whoever,
whether it be the boss or theiroffside, or you'll always try
and meet someone there, go overit.

(43:23):
Um, I'll always say, oh, we'regonna need some timber work done
here, blah, blah, blah.
If you so you've done that.
And then you sent the boys tosite and then they ring in you
going was this not done?
Was this and that like thatthere, yeah, that's like, oh,
fuck, it's gonna be this, it'sgonna be another fucking waiting
for them to do their job beforewe can do it another thing is

(43:45):
like, like you give a little,you get a little.
Like like, as long as there'sthat, yeah, you know to and fro
like, oh, I need this or oh, canyou guys, you know we're gonna
need you to do this, that's allgood.
But if, like, it's likeone-sided and then they're just
fucking, just cocks about it,yeah, then you're like yeah,
right, well, I probably won't bedoing another one for you yeah,

(44:08):
it's got to be give and take,isn't there?

Speaker 1 (44:10):
like if you go out of your way to go meet someone and
organize everything, likeyou've got to think that they're
going to follow through andhave it ready for you when you
show up.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah, and another thing like sometimes you just
don't mesh, like you'll meetsomeone and you're like, yeah,
this isn't going to work, likeyou're just completely different
people.
Yeah, Like I had one builder afew years ago and he rang me and
he said I need you here, I needyou here, I need you here, I, I
need you here, I need you here,I need you here.
I said yeah, well, it's rainedfor a week, you and everyone

(44:37):
else are calling me.
And he just kept at me, kept atme and ended up in an argument
and I said what?
So when you say jump, I'm meantto jump and he goes yeah,
pretty much.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
That's what I pay you for.
That's how it went.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, and that was like.
You know, people no Give andtake, there's no give and take,
it's just their way and that'sit, yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Because you did a lot of referral work, wouldn't you
Like?
If you do a good job for abuilder, they tell another
builder and then they try to.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
There is a bit of word of mouth.
We don't.
The only advertising we have ison our vehicles, quite
literally.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
We don't do anything of that, yeah, and then we get
word of mouth did like, yeah,like at the start, like you know
, fresh, and put the instagraminstagram up and like you know,
like, got that going and thatgot that, got the wheels turning
, yeah, um.
But then when you get busy,like, then you just get busy and
you just got another fuckingyeah coming in.
Then yeah, and then too busy.
The next thing, you know, youjust fucking swamped with work.
I mean, it's a good thing mostof the time.

(45:39):
It can be a bad thing sometimes.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, but I think it's really important to know
your client.
Like so many tradies just keeptaking on the wrong clients and
it's the cause of a lot of theirproblems.
Like you're going with yourguts and just knowing who you
don't want to work with.

Speaker 4 (46:01):
That's a huge part of a successful business.
Yeah, it is.
Um, I think between the two ofus, when it comes to the admin
side and then the on-site side,we kind of have a conversation,
see how it's going, and he'll,you know, he'll say to me oh you
know, I dealt with this today,or this guy's a dickhead.
Pretty much that's how it goes,um, and then you know, you get
I was just saying to him on theway here sometimes there's
builders who will say you've gotthe job and then just pay you a
deposit without even becausethey think then they've got you

(46:24):
Like yeah, yeah yeah, likeyou're locked in.
You're locked in, so you can'tsay no to this job.
We've paid you a deposit andI'm like no, no, no, no, don't
send me a deposit until I sendyou an invoice, because we don't
invoice, oh, before you've evensent an invoice.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, becausethey think that's literally got
a gun to our head, so to speak.
Yeah, and you're locked in forthis job.
So when we want you, you willbe there and you will jump.

(46:44):
Yeah, and to me that's awarning signal of there's no
give and take.
This is you pushing yourself onus.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Do you get builders that do that and think that by
doing that they're showing youthat they're good payers, but
then come the next pay when theydon't pay?

Speaker 4 (46:59):
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, no, it might be
that, but to me it always feelslike they're just being a bit
too pushy.
Yeah, and I never invoice untilthe material's ordered, because
you never know what can happenbetween site measure and
delivery.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
I, that's what I was just thinking, like it could be
like we work on jobs togetherfor six or 12 months.
It could be price and we alwayscheck is this current still
before we get a contract.
Yep, make sure everything'sgood.
Have we missed anything?
Or this has changed, or there'snew sets of plans or whatever?

Speaker 4 (47:27):
Yeah, like you can't foresee that stuff, I've looked
at it and just seen.
You can't give me a price rise,wait a minute.
The faces have changed.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah, and then come back to you with they've made
changes.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
Yeah, that's right, but it's no.
Yeah, I had one of those thismorning and I was just like, oh
you know.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
So how do you deal with builders that don't pay
bills, like I got, even right atthe moment?
I was telling you just before,like we've got a couple of
subbies that are continuing todo work for builders that are
120 days out, 60 days out.
I just keep telling them stopdoing the work.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
That's what we do.
We literally just say we willnot be attending site until
you're paid to date, and then wewill come back, and when I
invoice you, if you don't pay itagain, we will stop doing work.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
It's just you've got at the moment, especially in the
current climate, you've got toplay hardball.
You go yeah, I mean you just gomoney's owed complaint.
That's, that's the pc way ofdoing it.
I guess you know like, gothrough the motions, money's
owed complaint if they haven'tpaid you, what's that?

Speaker 4 (48:27):
qbcc money's owed complaint talking through that.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Uh, so where are we building that pays our bills?

Speaker 3 (48:32):
so through, like the bifact or whatever it's called
um.

Speaker 4 (48:35):
If you've got a contract, it it's the contract,
or if you don't have a contract,it reverts to the BIFACT.
Yeah, but the QBCC areliterally toothless tigers.
So we had, so do you have acontract?

Speaker 1 (48:44):
with every builder you work for no no.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Oh, you have your subcontractor agreement.

Speaker 4 (48:51):
Yeah, that's right yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
But like not every job, you're not Signing a
contract.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah it's just a blanket.
And then you get I think you doit with us like you get us to
sign off your quote and pay adeposit.

Speaker 4 (49:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
So I think that's by us signing your quote off.
That's saying that we.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
That's a contract.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
That's sort of like legally binding, isn't it?
That's a contract, federal.
Revert to the perfect, yeah,but if you don't pay within,
that certain period.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
And also, sharon, if there's an issue with the
invoice not with Honey with you,but if there's an issue from an
invoice from a trade she has torespond within a certain amount
of days to say we're not payingyou because of this.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
I think it's 15 days.
You've got 15 days to respondwith a payment schedule.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
But not.
A lot of trades have just seenan office to do that.
Yeah, so that's where I think alot of people get unstuck.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
Yes, and when you're owed like a lot of these guys
that are owed, you know,$100,000, they probably just
think I'll just keep going towork because I've got to keep
making money, because they'renot paying me so I've got to
find it somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
I hear stories all the time like a lot of builders
go oh look, if you come and dothis, I'll fix you up that.
More work.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
And they still don't get fixed up no, because that
builder is trying to get to thenext stage.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Claim yeah, yeah.
So the next job, yeah, ispaying this job's paying for the
previous job.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
That's stealing from peter to pay paul yeah yeah,
that's what they, you know, andif you're trading in solvent,
that's how it works yeah, so howdo you like, do you get many of
those type of?
I'd say we lose maybe 50 granda year.
Nah, what have we lost 50?
Last year, two builders Oneliterally went MIA.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
I mean I've gone to, I've seen builders on site and
I've pulled up at the job siteand I've bailed them up on the
scaffold in front of all theirboys Like where the fuck's the
money, why haven't you paid thefucking bill?
Oh, I'll pay it, I'll pay it.
And then one guy, he reallytook off to Adelaide, Just got
his licence suspended and thentook off to Adelaide.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
Yeah With, you know half-finished properties.
I think two half-finishedproperties, oh no, it's if you
dig like.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
So when I went through, so the builder that
screwed me and it took us fiveyears to get the money out of
them.
They've just Gone toliquidation, yeah, yeah.
So they went to liquidationthis year, which is like that's
the best thing that could haveever happened To them.
Building industry in Brisbane,Like Justine started digging and
like digging, digging, digging,digging, Relentless digging of

(51:21):
digging.
And like digging, digging,digging, digging, relentless
digging.

Speaker 4 (51:22):
And like the amount of people that they owed money
to was I think at their firstcreditors meeting they were up
to 14 million holy shit.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Well, that's a, that's a big.
They must have been doing a lotof homes to get that sort of
money.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Well, they just ah well, they were doing government
stuff, I think, like, like youknow, gold coast, high rise,
high right, eight story buddyapartment buildings and stuff
like that and just still need topay for yeah so this is to me,
like I just think it's.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
I actually think it's criminal that our industry
doesn't have some sort ofregistration that if you're a
subbie that hasn't been paid andlook, there's always two sides
to the story but if you're ifsubbie that hasn't been paid,
and look, there's always twosides to the story but if you've
got a certain amount of moneythat's been outstanding for I
don't know, let's say 60 days or100 days, you can't go to this
registry, put their details onthere to show every other subbie

(52:09):
and client and everybody outthere that this person's on this
registry.
Because if you're running agreat business, you understand
your overheads, you're chargingthe right money and your money's
like your cash flow should befine.
You shouldn't have to worryabout like we as a builder, like
we shouldn't have to worryabout you getting our roof on so
that we can go and do a draw toour client, Like it's our

(52:31):
responsibility as a buildingcompany to be able to fund
whatever work, the money,whatever work we need to done on
site to get it to that stage sothat we can put a drawing.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
yep, well, that's how I do it yeah, 100, yeah, yeah,
oh, that that's a big thing.
Is like, oh, I need to get thison because I need to need to
make a draw, and that's likealarm bells.
Well, it's a pain in the assfrom like a stress point of view
, because it's like you'll putlike yeah, we're here doing it,
but you're like more pressure on, don't put your financial
pressure on me, like that's yourthing.

(53:02):
I'm here doing the job, we'llget it done.
Don't, yeah, don't, offloadyour shit onto me.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
I guess I've got enough of my own crap to deal
with on a daily basis, so how,like you've recently been
through it, so you were part ofa builder that got sent into a
shutdown, yeah, so the processis QBCC money's.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
I complaint, and then if the builders are
well-schooled in how the processworks, they will literally just
say we're disputing theinvoices and then the QBCC don't
have any power.
What they literally say to youif you want to take it further,
go to QCAT, get a lawyer.
And that's when it getsexpensive.
And that's when it getsexpensive.
So this builder, we put theupper roof on and then I put two

(53:45):
20% claims in and they didn'tpay them and they were two weeks
late paying their deposit,which was off the bat, bad luck.
And then, when the invoice wasoverdue by 40 days, they came to
me and said oh, we've got adefect.
And I'm like I find it a bitstrange that you've waited 40
days to bring this up.
I spoke to your husband a fewweeks ago and he said no, no,

(54:08):
your quality's great, we'rereally happy with it,
everything's fine.
I was like, right, ok.
So then I thought actually I'lljust start digging, I'll do
what I do and I'll just startdigging, I'll do what I do.
And then found out they owed ascaffolding company from the day
the scaffold had been put up.
They hadn't paid a cent overfrom February till July August.
Oh no, yep.

(54:28):
And then another roofer from aprevious job, the plumber from
the job that we were on painter,and it ended up being $190,000.
So we just got affidavits fromeveryone from the job that we
were on painter and it ended upbeing 190 grand.
So we just got affidavits fromeveryone and we did the stat
deck, which is a wind-up on acompany, and the judge said if

(54:48):
it was just for the 23 grand youwere owed, maybe not, but
because you've got all thistogether and it's now 190, done.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
So you really should be talking to your other trades
on site to make sure thateveryone's, and that's what I
think builders that are tradinginsolvent.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
They rely on the fact that trades don't talk.
Everyone's a separate gangBecause we're in first we're one
of the first roofs on then geteveryone in.
So we don't really see anyoneon site apart from the chippies.
Yeah, so our builder that tookus for 75 grand.
Five years ago that was thesame thing.

(55:24):
So we were there, theycancelled the contract and
trespassed the company.
If you turn up, we're going tocall the cops.
You know hadn't paid us 75grand for three separate houses.
And then I started talking topeople and it was massive
amounts of money between myselfand the electrician that was on
the same job.
Huge, yeah, I think yeah like I.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Like I got a few people reach out to me now, even
like our own tradies, say, oh,have you heard this about this?
Or whatever, like I think oneof the first thing traders
should do if they think aboutdoing work for a new builder is
say to the builder, like can yougive us a list of 10 of your
trades?

Speaker 4 (55:58):
oh, it's like us getting credit with someone
references.
Yeah, why should they not haveto give up?

Speaker 3 (56:04):
yeah, I agree.
I was just about to say surelythere needs to be some kind of
registry.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Well, we can all talk .
When we were going through thethat big one where they took us
for the 75, we had two peoplegoogled us and it came up with
the qcat thing and they askedthe question.
They said oh, what, like?
What's the story?

Speaker 4 (56:23):
did you not finish a job, or you know?
And I said, no, no, we are theapplicants we have, so you can
like yeah, you can get on theold yeah.
So it negatively impacted ourbusiness yeah when we hadn't
been paid.
Yeah, so, but it was just a bitof grit and I just, you know,
didn't give up, but that's$75,000.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Yeah, like that's someone's nearly yearly wage.
That's right.
That's just not what you thatthey're losing.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Like, if you like, in reality that's not.
It's not $75,000.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Like for you to make profit out of 75,000.
You've got to earn triple thatto get that money back.
Well, we were 100 grand in thehole to a supplier and it took
us 12 months to pay them off.
Get the communication up,justine.
I mean, she's queen ofcommunication.
She just rings everyone andannoys them, and just this is
where we're at.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
This is the situation Every time I see Justine come
up.

Speaker 4 (57:19):
I'm like, oh see, justine I feel bad when I don't
know I'm like a little bit winkyscreen.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Yeah, she got a new screen, though the other day she
ran like how did you get that?
I want that.
On what?
Was it it comes up with the thelag like the logo.
I did that of a chicken and youtold me to take it down.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
Yeah, he's like.
What is this?
I said you can change yourprofile to be a chicken.
And then I thought I'm going tochange it to the poo emoji, so
when I call it, comes up withthat.
But that wasn't funny eitherbut it's um, I, I.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
The other excuse I really hate is like you touched
on before as builders, um,dragging it out and then saying
there's a defect, like thatshits me to tears.
Like if you put a roof on there, like our process is, once the
roof goes on, we get whoeverneeds to come in might be Sparky
, put solar on antenna orwhatever.
Todd or I do a walk of the roofand check it before the

(58:06):
scaffold's coming down.
So literally we're doing aninspection, I would say normally
within three, five days of use,finishing the roof.
The fact that someone's waiting40 to make an excuse to not pay
some money they don't have,yeah, like it's just ridiculous
and you hear it all the time.
Like we hear it from our tilersand our plasterer like, yeah,
no, I'm not getting paid becausethey've told me that I haven't

(58:26):
done the plastering properly andyet.
And then he goes back to checkit and it's all painted and tile
.
But yeah, mate, come on, butyou can't get.

Speaker 4 (58:34):
Continue with all the other trade if there's an
obvious defect, you would havewanted me to fix that before you
carried on.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Yeah, yeah yeah, like there's a lot of signs that
builders um I I feel like a lotof tradies need to just start
saying no, like just walk awayfrom these builders that aren't
running good businesses andaren't paying bills and they're
fucking people around yeah, Ithink, yeah, it can be hard to
well.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Well, not hard, I think you're always.
You're always like fuck, allright, I've got to make sure the
work's there, I've got to makesure I've got work coming in.
And that's where you can getcaught out because you're like
right, we fucking.
Yeah, all right, we probablyneed this job because this will
take us through to here and thenthat one will start, and then,

(59:21):
but you're right, you're right.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
Sometimes, if you just say no, like we, we'll say
no to something and then, a weeklater, just be flooded with
emails from new builders yeah,quote this, so it's as crazy as
it is.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Honestly, the universe rewards you.
If you say no, if you followyour gut, like, at the end of
the day, if we all followed ourguts and said, look, sorry, mate
, can't do your work like, theuniverse will reward you.
That's right, sending youbetter, quality jobs yeah, it
does the same with clients.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
If you get a feeling like we're just not the people,
like yes, you'll be right forsomeone else, just not for us.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
It's like him with some builders just don't mish.
Yeah, it's just not gonna work.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
All right.
So, moving on to another lastsubject, probably Just working
together.
Couples working together.
Eh, this is a it's always a hottopic.
Camilla and I have done a fewsolo podcasts together talking
about this, Like how do you guysstay?

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
Married.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Well, yeah, healthy, healthy relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Oh, I suppose Do you want to do this one-on-one, no,
no.
Like.
So I suppose, like I say tothis to the boys on site like if
we have a disagreement or mighthave words about something, you
leave it at the gate, like it'sgot to be the same, Like we'll
have an argument about somethingat work but it never carries

(01:00:36):
through, to like dinner timewhere we're sitting at the table
as the kids.
It's like whatever, if I candeal with that tomorrow, fuck it
is what it is.
Like it's going to happen.
Like fucking.
Some days I'm just like, forfuck's sake, same, it's the same
.
And then other dayseverything's all good and then
she might get fucked off with mebecause I've fucking done

(01:00:59):
something or I fucking said Iwas going to do something and I
just didn't do it or I ran outof time or it's just, I don't
know.
I suppose you just deal with itand you can't take it personally
.

Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
You know, it took me a while to not take it
personally.
Yeah, yeah, because you knoweach other, but you while to not
take it personally.
Yeah, yeah, because you don't.
You know, you know each other,but you're not working together
from day dot.
And then, when you startworking together, you're like oh
, some days you're like I don'teven know if I like this guy
anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
I think it's also nice that like we chat yes, like
we don't chat all the time- butCamille and I have a good
little session every couple ofweeks, yeah, and yeah, you're
not only in that position likewe.
I think we all go through.
It's very similar.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
So I think every yeah wife yeah, tradie, that's
working in the.
You know the back office.
Yeah, it's all the same typesof issues you go through and
feelings and yeah there's, youknow it's, but I think if you've
got a good relationship and youcan communicate, that's a major
which most folks can't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
We know, nah, she has it out what we interpret as
something, you interpret assomething very different.
But I liked what you saidbefore, like you've got the same
goal.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
That's right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Like it took us a little while, I think, to get on
that same page.
Yeah, like I don't know,camille might have a different
view, but with her getting likeI'm sure a building business
wasn't her first choice.
So the goals at the beginningwere very different, because I
always wanted to have asuccessful building business.
So we did buttheads and therewas a lot of times when shit
would hit the fan.
She's like I don't even fuckingwant to do this, but we got

(01:02:37):
through it all.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Still don't know if I want to do this.
He just keeps piling stuff ontomy desk.
I'm thinking about doing this,but we were talking the other
day like I enjoy the challengeas much as I whinge about it
Like you're like, oh, I thinkI'm going to get a website
together.
I'm like okay, cool, and then Ijust do it.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
It becomes part of your deal.
That's right, I should saythat's good for you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Oh, that's good, you have fun with that and like the
farm, like I want to do this andI'm like I just want to sit up
there and drink coffee and reada book.
I don't want to talk to people.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
I don't're gonna do this, so we're gonna do that,
and, like I'm not cleaningtoilets like everything and but
now I'm like, okay, so we'renearly there, that's right.
The website's.
I'm like, yes, and I think, um,the challenge, yeah, doing it
together, yeah as a like commongoal, it's a, it's a mission,
but it's a, I think, um what wekind of always look ahead.
It's always what's what's next,what's it done this, and we've
done this and we've renovated,and now we're at this point.
What are we doing next?

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
I definitely don't think we wouldn't be in the
position we are if it wasn't forJustine Like just going all
right, I'm just going to saddleup and I'm really stubborn.
This is me now.
It would have just been like afucking yeah and I would have
fucking flaming mess and fuckingI'd be probably working to

(01:04:03):
someone like you know, you canonly do so much in a day and
without being like getting burntout and that's kind of why I
stepped in, because he's good atwhat he does.

Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
Yeah, he loves doing what he does, but if you're
doing too much then, like yousaid, you don't enjoy it and you
lose the love for it.
And that's where he was gettingto and I was like he can't not
do this because he's good at it.
Yeah, so he just needs a bit ofhelp and it'll be all right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Yeah, yeah there's a lot of benefits, like once
you're both working together,like you like just the things
you get to do with family andyou can like, you can plan
around, like if you know what'sgoing on with family, you can
plan, work around it and allthose types of things.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
Like there's huge amounts of benefits I think,
yeah, like with school and stufflike sports days and you know,
having a couple of hours to zipto a cross country or something
you know, yeah, that's somethingyou don't really like, because
nannying I didn't get to do anyof that stuff.
Yeah, so it's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
It's having the flexibility to enjoy things a
little more I think anotherthing is like like trust, like
you know you can trust yourpartner.
Yeah, it's always going to dothe right, what's right for the
business, what's right for thefamily, yeah, and you like,
there's never that sort of oh,fuck, fuck are they, you know,

(01:05:20):
are they going to rip me off, orare they taking this seriously,
or are they going to drop theball?
Or, you know, like pimping yourwife?
It's like, oh, you know what toexpect.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
Most of the time, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Like does it excite you guys?
Obviously you've come a longway.
Like, honestly, I didn't,honestly, you were doing our
work before you.
I'll still be, in my mind.
Knowing that you were a nannywhen you started doing our work,
because I would never haveexpected that you were doing
something else.
Well, you were doing splitshifts.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
I was doing split shifts.
Yeah, come home during the day,pump out a few plans, go back
to work at 2.30.

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
Oh, my god so.
I'd work from 7 till 9, getwork at 2.30.
Oh my God, yeah.
So I'd work from 7 till 9, gethome at 9.30, and then leave
home at 2.
So from 9.30 till 2 every day Iwas Aberhart roofing, yeah, and
then at night time quite oftentoo.
Because I kind of think I'm notgetting enough done then to
keep up with what's coming invia email, I'll just make it up
at night time when the kids aregoing to bed the kids are going

(01:06:15):
to bed?

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
Yeah, but does it like it excites you now seeing
how far you guys are coming insuch a short period, like you're
like what's next?

Speaker 4 (01:06:19):
Because we moved here in 2000,.
Well, it was 2009 and he was2010 and we literally had.
I had $2,000 in the bank at 30and then he came about six
months later with $1,500, Ithink.
And there, just and that was itjust absolutely dug it in and
all right because you've donewell like.
And then, what is it?
What are we?
10 years business, 10 years, Ithink we.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Our ibm was august 2013, so 11 yes yeah, and see,
that's a good lesson for peopleas well who think they've been
in business for two or threeyears and, oh, we're making this
and that, like it is a long, ohthe like yeah, yep, and the the
you know the fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
is this going to pay off?
Yep, but then when you're outthe other end or well, you're
never really out- the other end,but you know like when you
reach that, like that milestoneof oh fuck, actually you know
it's all running right, likeeverything's paid on time.
Everyone's paid on time, yeah,like you're like all right sweet
.

Speaker 4 (01:07:23):
And then time like there's never like, you're like
all right, sweet, and then like,once you got that sort of
mastered, then you can focus onthe next thing.
Yeah, it's just evolving allthe time it is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
It's never stagnant, there's never nothing to do or
worry about, or I think you'realways trying to better yourself
, like I've probably steppedback off the tools a little bit
more this year and like now it'slike like it's all learning
again.
I'm like all right, so if I'mgonna fucking do this properly,
I've got to like I've got to getmy shit together and actually
master.
Making sure he is on, he is onsite, everything's right, the

(01:07:46):
boys know where they're at.
If there's a problem, you knowyou deal with the problem, get
that sorted so you know itdoesn't cost you time.
Yeah, so you're always learning.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
I think the day you go, I know it all, it's probably
the day you should retire yeah,yeah, yeah, the um, like I, I
just think it's so, like it, Ikeep getting addicted by it,
like the more that thingsimprove and the better you do it
.
Just, you just want to keepgoing.
That next level and that nextlevel and I think, like people
need to understand that it is.
It's you've got to keep goingto that next level, because the

(01:08:19):
grind never stops.
It doesn't.
Yeah, yeah, but like, howexcited.
I'm sure you guys are sayinglike for me it's been incredibly
exciting, like when I thinkback to the days where our cash
flow was shit and we didn't knowour numbers, and like I still
remember, like sitting down likesharon, our accounts manager,
like she's been with me 19 years, they um.
Like I remember the days whereI had to sit with her, we'd

(01:08:40):
print all the bills out and I'dhave to go through them with a
red pen and a ruler and I'd putlines through the ones that we
could afford to pay and we usedto have to go well, these are
the ones we can pay, those oneswe're going to have to make an
excuse and send an email and say, oh, we'll pay you next week or
whatever.
Yep, and it wasn't months.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
It was like next week .
Yeah, it wasn't months, it wasdays, days or weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
But going from that position to now, like I, very
rarely get asked Like the billscome in.
They just get paid Like thebusiness has got cash flow.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Yeah, she's like this is here, that's there, that's
there, that's there there, andyou're like, okay, cool, but it
takes a long time to learn that,yeah and to get into a routine
and how it all works but that Ithink that comes back to I think
you're saying before about likehaving like guys that are
coming up going.
I can't afford an admin person.
Yeah, it's like no, you need tobe able to, probably should

(01:09:31):
prioritize that, because if youdon't prioritize that and I mean
we saw it at the start Like wedidn't take it seriously Well,
it's not that we didn't take itseriously, it was just like it
was all learning and all new andlike fuck, you know how do we
do this?
And not wanting to ask for help.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah just being stubborn and going Nah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
I've got this.
I can get this sorted.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Well, we've built the Training business like, we've
systemized everything.
Like we know from systemizingeverything, like 80 of the task
it takes to run a trade orbuilding business is off site.
Like when you think about likethe only things that happen on
site are the physical, puttingthe materials, together like,
everything else is off site thepricing, the ordering, the

(01:10:16):
specifications, the plans, thelike, scheduling, like and so
like.
When you're a tradie that justgoes to site and throws a roof
on or smashes a frame up or likein your head, it's very hard to
have that transition from goingfrom a tradie to a business and
that's what many people don'tunderstand.

Speaker 4 (01:10:36):
Like we always talk about that, the fact that people
see what we're doing and how itworks, and they see instagram
and they see all that stuff, butthey don't actually know how
much goes in behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Yeah, to get that roof on that building and that,
like whether it's a trade or abuilder, like that, 80 is the
most expensive part, yeah, and.
But everyone will look withroofing like everyone just
questions the roofing, oh, theroofing that should only cost
that much.
But they don't realise that theother money is spent in the
running of the business.
That's right, and if you want agood job, you have to be

(01:11:08):
running the business.
Yeah yep.
It's yeah, I'm a big thing Like.
I think every tradie anyonethat's listening to this every
tradie needs to figure out,understand their costs.
Charge more to have admin help,like and, and.
If it is their partner or wifeor whatever, that's fine, but
they have to get paid pay themand learn how to communicate

(01:11:31):
with each other.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
Figure out your roles and tasks because, like we were
talking about the and I'vetalked about this before on the
podcast the tradie wives and thebuilders, all those Facebook
pages and the horror stories youhear, and half the time it's
like push on, like it's okay,just talk to him, like, or you,
or figure out, like if you knowyour roles and tasks and you
understand what the process forthe day is or the week or
whatever job's going on, likeyou'll be fine, you'll be fine,

(01:11:54):
just keep pushing, yeah.
But the ones that are just likeoh no, can't do it anymore, he
doesn't.
You have to listen to eachother and you have to learn how
to communicate with each otherat work and then, like you said,
go home and like just behusband and wife yeah, let it go
.
Yeah, like last night.
Oh, what about this?
I'm like.
I'm not actually talking to youabout this.
I've clocked out.
Can you send?

(01:12:14):
me an email.
Send me an email.
I burnt my hand cooking theother night because you annoyed
me so much because you wereasking me questions.
I grabbed the pen.
I'm like that's your fault.
That's your fault.
I occasionally try and sleep ina bit it might not be about DPS
, it could be about anything,but I'm like it's work, I'm not
interested yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
I need.
I'm sure you're the same wayLike I think tradies, like we
just like number one, we'reblokes, so we don't communicate
very good.
And ladies Anyway, and yeah,there's females out there as
well now but we just think sodifferently, like, and it's, we
get into it because, like I'msure you're the same as me Like

(01:12:53):
I got into it because I justloved being outside.
I didn't want to sit in aclassroom, I didn't want people
telling me what to do and I justwanted to go and build shit.
That's exactly right, and thento get to have a business.
It's a whole other thing.
And then, like I even know now,like I still interpret things
very different to what morehigher educated people do.
I say things to people that I Isay because I think I'm

(01:13:13):
explaining it correctly, butthey take it very differently.
Like we all seem to have thisdifferent way of it's thinking
as well.

Speaker 4 (01:13:20):
It's the way of thinking some people like
tradies are very practical.
Yeah, they literally they'redoers with their hands, they
want to make stuff, they want todo stuff.
So someone that writessomething for a living doesn't
pick up what you're putting down.
Yeah, when it comes topracticality, which is is and
that's a communication.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
Yeah, I've been picking that up a little bit
lately and we've been talkingabout it.
I think I need to create moreexplanations around certain
products and things that are onsite Like and it could be like a
roofing thing, like if thedesigner, architect I may not
know if they've explained theprofile of that roof or the
cladding or what it's going tolook like.
So I think I need to providemore visual aspects to the

(01:14:00):
clients because, or like windowsor hinges or this like it might
just be a standard hinge, butwhat is that?
because different types ofpeople interpret things in
different ways and terminologyand terminology, and like I want
people and clients and trades,whoever if you don't understand,
like, ask the question becauseit's not because you're dumb, no

(01:14:21):
, it's because you do not know.
Yeah, and if you don't ask thequestion, because if we can all
just communicate and ask thequestion, it'll be fine yeah,
but it's, it's, it is.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
It's a really tricky one because you don't.
You don't know what you don'tknow no, but it's the same with
codies.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
I'm like does that make sense?
Like, please tell me, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
So I don't know that I should be asking you a certain
question like yeah, I mean,that comes back to the uh, this
always pops up communication,like that is the one thing
everyone's like communication,communication, communication,
yeah, yeah, yeah it is a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
We'll start to wrap it up.
You guys got anything else youwant to get off your chest or
you're talking to the industry.
No, how can people find you?
How do they find abahartroofing?

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
instagram yeah, just just look us up on instagram.
We don't, yeah, don't do muchadvertising.
No website, no, a lot of justword of mouth yeah, yeah, good
job, I suppose, yeah, you'rejust drawing there, just try and
keep the quality there and thework generally follows.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:15:23):
And I think being good to deal with is a major
yeah, yeah.
Like that's a big part of it isbeing available is first thing.
If you miss a call, call theperson back, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
Oh, I love that we have a phone tag.

Speaker 4 (01:15:37):
Our games are great good.
Yeah, I'm like she's probablyon the phone to someone else and
she's going oh, justine'sringing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Guys really appreciate you coming on having
a chat, um, I guess for alltraders and bills out there,
they're listening to this likeyou've heard a lot of, I guess,
behind the scenes today, of uh,what it takes to run a
successful business.
So, um, take it on board, takenotes, have a think about things
.
Um, yeah, go and check outabahart roofing.
They do great work.
If you're a builder in brisbane, go and check them out if you
need a new roofer.

(01:16:03):
But, um, and as we said at thebeginning, go to the
duanepeircecom website and loadup on merch.
We want to see every tradiebuilder, um, client, anybody,
kids, women, anybody.
We're a level up merch.
So, um, look forward to seeingyou on the next podcast.
Please hit the subscribe buttonand we'll keep doing what we do
.

Speaker 5 (01:16:21):
Cheers, guys are you ready to build smarter, live
better and enjoy life?
Then head over to live likebuildcom forward, slash, elevate
to get started.
Everything discussed during thelevel up podcast with me, duane

(01:16:42):
pierce, is based solely on myown personal experiences and
those experiences of my guests.
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.

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