From Imposter Syndrome to Industry Leadership.

#148 Ryan Smith from Locspec shares his remarkable transformation from traditional carpenter to successful business owner, revealing how vulnerability and community support revolutionised both his company and personal life.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think I spent a long time not like thinking
locally that I'm against him.
I'm against him Like, are wequoting against each other?
Do I undercut him?
All those sort of things.
Now I look at it I'm like I'dbe better off having a chat to
that builder saying are you allgood?

Speaker 2 (00:15):
The more we all talk, the more we're vulnerable, the
more we share stories.
It's the only way that ourindustry is going to thrive,
only way that our industry isgoing to thrive.
G'day guys.
Welcome back to another episodeof Level Up.
We are back in the shed todayfor another cracking episode.

(00:35):
I am really looking forward tothe podcast episode we've got
coming up today because we'vegot Ryan from Loxbeck.
He's one of our Elevate membersin Live Life Build.
He's a fantastic guy and I justI can't wait to share your
story, mate, like your growth inthe last what 12, 18 months,
two years?

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, best part of two years now.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, it's been pretty phenomenal.
So thanks for making the tripup from Wollongong.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah, it was a bit of a journey today, but we're here
now, so it's all good.
The weather's much better uphere.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Mate, we've had shocking weather up here, but
today is a cracking day.
It'd be a bit chilly down yourway, wouldn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, we had a big storm during the week.
We had a tree come through ourliving room actually.
Oh no, I left my house withabout 20 SES people in our
living room, so that was fun.
My wife's dealing with that, soshe's a bit of a superstar, so
she'll be sweet with it.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah Well, we'll talk about your wife a bit today as
well, because she's in thebusiness as well.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
eh, Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
So, mate, let's go back.
Look before you became part ofElevate.
Tell us a little bit about yourbackground.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, so I did my apprenticeship with my old boy.
He's a builder, a residentialbuilder, based in a little town
called Jamboree, which is, Ithink there's about 1,000 people
there, and we just basicallybuild renovations, new homes in
the area.
I wanted to be an architect tostart, like when I was in school
.
I probably didn't listen wellenough at school to make that a

(02:09):
reality, so I just naturallycame down the path of dad told
me to stop mucking around atschool so come to work pretty
much.
So that was that's how thatcome about.
But I look back on it now and Istill do have a passion for the
design part of building.
But, um, I love, I've, I'vere-found my passion for building

(02:31):
in the last couple of years,which is I really needed that um
, and that's a lot to do with,like the community I've got
around me now and um, just thethings that we've put in place
with both personally andprofessionally.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
So that's been really cool, so did you go down the
standard apprenticeship path.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yep, yep.
So I did my time over fouryears through TAFE and then I
did my builder's license when Istarted in my second year of my
apprenticeship.
So I literally finished myapprenticeship one week.
The following week I finishedmy builder's license the
following week.
After that I flew to London forthree years.

(03:09):
I was only gone for six months,but I ended up staying for
three years and, probably likemost young builders, I thought I
was king shit.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
So did you work over there or just tour yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:22):
I started working over there.
The full intention was just togo over there and have a bit of
fun.
I was there with my now wife.
We were just going to work inbars there and do heaps of
traveling.
We quickly found out thatwhatever savings we had were
gone within about six weeks.
So we were enjoying our timethere, but we very quickly

(03:43):
realized that we were probablygoing to have to get a proper
job.
So we did that and that wasreally cool and I started as a
site foreman over there, whichis a little bit different.
It was really exciting, but Idefinitely probably put myself
in a position and said I coulddo things that I couldn't do.
Like we built.

(04:03):
I was a site fore former forSimon Cow from X Factor.
We were building a pretty coolhouse in Chelsea for him, and
it's that part of things, thatpart of the journey, was pretty
cool, but I was definitelypromising things that I couldn't
do, and now that I look backwhen I'm what 20 years, nearly
20 years later I was justincredibly naive of probably the

(04:25):
things I knew and what I, whatI didn't know as well.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
So how did it all pan out?

Speaker 1 (04:30):
I actually there was a part they'll ask me to uh
basically run the, the liftportion of the of the job and I
they basically put told me to goin there and lay the vessel
blocks and for the lift shaftand I don't know what to do
there and then had a big bluewith lift shaft.
I'm like I don't know what todo there.
And then I had a big blue withthe project manager.
I said that's not my job, buttypical bull in the ring sort of

(04:51):
scenario.
I was like I got my back up, hegot his back up and obviously
he was a bit more superior thanI was, so he basically told me
to pack my bag.
But then again I went down thepath to another residential
builder there and did the samerole.
That one went much, much betterbecause it was much smaller
scale, which was cool.
Still some pretty decent staffthat we were building, but not

(05:22):
to the extent of tens ofmillions of pounds of jobs.
But yeah, that next role wentfor probably 12 to 18 months,
which was really cool, and itgave me a lot of opportunities
to see three quarters of theworld actually.
So it's um, looking back on itnow, it was pretty cool
opportunity yeah, it's unreal.
Got to do a bit of traveling andyeah build your career as well
yeah, so there's a different wayof building too.
Like I, I probably didn't graspor realize how much fun that

(05:46):
was and and the differenttechniques that they have, like
the underpinning of basementsand just, and you know, two,
three hundred year old housesand stuff like that.
It was so cool it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, they dig down under old places over there and
they're basically buildingunderground yeah, and then
dewatering and all that yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, it was really, really cool looking back on it
now.
But yeah, I was very muchrunning by the seat of my pants
for a long time, like I thinkmost young dudes do.
But I mean, that's justmaturing, I suppose as well,
realising that you can't doeverything at once.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
So what happened?
When you come back to Oz, mate,did you get straight back into
carpentry and building?

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, I did.
I came back straight back and Ijust started subbing to my old
man again.
So he family business.
He probably couldn't say no.
I suppose he did need my help,which is cool.
He had myself and my brother asthe carpenters and then we had
some subbies and stuff and I wassort of always somewhat of his,

(06:46):
I suppose, leading hand when hewasn't on site um, and my
brother was.
He was he's a he's, he's agreat chippy, my brother um, and
then he uh, it's probablyimportant to say that we had a
lot of blues on site um, mybrother, my dad and myself I can
only imagine I think I think Iquit twice in my four years as

(07:08):
an apprentice and my brotherquit 17 times.
So looking back on it, it was,it's a looking back on it now,
like we're just we're three ofthe same people and we just
clash the whole time yeahthere's one story there where
we're all at a job we must haveall just got our license and um
either had a ute, the one of thework utes dad had one of the
work utes and my brother had theother work ute and we all went

(07:30):
there.
My dad had a blue with my otherbrother.
With my brother he said, fuck,yeah, I'm going.
So he left the ute there andthen, like half an hour later I
had a blue with the old boy aswell.
So I said the same thing andwe're both walking, going to
walk 10Ks home, and Dad rings usup with his tail between his

(07:51):
legs saying that can you comeback?
I'm sorry, we need to get thework cars home.
So we finally got one back onhim on that one.
But looking back he was my oldboy.
He's really known for beingquite stern and um in like you
could probably say a crankyprick, I suppose along.

(08:11):
But he was very, very respectedand ironically I'm not touching
it later he's probably theclosest um builder carpenter
that I've ever met.
That comes up to one of mygreat friends, craig stew
Stewart.
So like just the way, theirmannerisms, their techniques, so
that that really set me in goodstead for what I've been a good

(08:32):
chippy.
Um, I didn't learn much as a, asa businessman, like I was.
Like I said, I was quite naive,um, as a builder.
But I mean, I just threw myselfin when I got home, went out to
start subbing to the old boy.
Then I think we just finished aspeccy for dad and then another

(08:53):
builder mate of mine said doyou want to come contract to our
bigger company?
They weren't a volume builder,but they were doing, you know,
probably 10 to 12 houses a yearand they needed, uh, subby
chippies.
So I went for myself and then Iwent to one apprentice and at
one stage I think I had fiveguys just working for us and we
were just subby chippies.

(09:13):
Um, we're like they were doingsome like award-winning houses
and stuff like that.
So we weren't, we weren'tbuilding garbage, so we were
earning what's the word I'mtrying to say?
We were building goodtechniques, like we were doing
the right things.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
And it gets you speed up.
Eh, that was the best.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
I look back on it now and I'm like that's so good.
That's the part that reallyhelped us a lot.
I was fortunate enough to bringmy brother with us.
He's very much inherited mydad's temper to the demise of a
couple of apprentices I lostover that time and that was.
And then, while we were doingthe contracting stuff, that's

(09:58):
where I really learnt how to runa business and what to do and
what not to do.
I did struggle with that for along, long time and then towards
the end of it, I just got.
I got Jack of subbing.
I look at it.
I look at it now.
We I think we subbed to themfor about five years full time
and at the time I was like whatare these guys doing?

(10:19):
Like the builders, like theowners of the business, what are
they doing?
Like we're out here buildingall their houses.
Just so naive, just thinkinglike the carpenters do all the
work sort of thing, and and Ilook back on it now I'm just
like far out, like knowing whatI know.
Now I'm just like those poorbuggers.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
So it's hard like when you're well, yeah when
you're on site just throwingwalls up, like you don't.
You don't understand how muchit takes for those packs of
timber, all those trusses, toturn up on site roughly when
you're going to need them yeahall your nails, your fixings,
you yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
So I look at that now and like reflect I do a lot of
reflecting down.
It helps me mentally processthings.
I look at that time of my lifeand the time of my career as it
was really, really valuable,like I learned a lot of things,
like I I learned how to dealwith apprentices that don't

(11:14):
really want to be there, how toum deal with, you know, multiple
guys on site, and then it wasjust it was a really cool
stepping stone to what we do nowas a business.
But yeah, I mean the personalside of things.
There's still some demons orstruggles that I have.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
So how did you, just before we get into that, how
long did you sub it?
For how long was it before youdecided to go out and start your
own building business?

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Probably three and a half and a half, maybe four
years, yeah, because I think Ijust got sick of again.
I had the attitude of like whatare these guys like?
I can do all this myself.
And there was, towards the end,it felt very much like I was
like running their jobs andorganizing their plumbers and
sparkies and having sitemeetings with the clients and
stuff like that.
So I'm like, what am I doing?
Like I should be doing thismyself.
And we started it.
I think we started just doing acouple bathroom renovations and
then like decks for goalers,bathrooms, extensions for house

(12:13):
renos and then and now to likenew builds as well.
But, um, yeah, there was, therewas a few really great learning
curves through that process sohow do you?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
um, like it's a pretty common story, there's a
lot of people in the industrythat have come through working
for dads or uncles or, yeah,whatever other family members.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
It can be a really challenging process, can't it,
because you do get stuck with alot of bad habits yeah it can be
hard to change um, yeah, I look, I look at dad and hopefully I
don't get too emotional this,but, um, like, I do look at dad
and and the way the traits thathe did teach us, like other than

(12:54):
the crankiness that weinherited- I can't imagine you
being cranky mate, like thewhole time I've known you just
like a big teddy bear.
Yeah, thanks, um, that's cutstraight from Dwayne's mouth,
guys.
No, I did.
For a while I'd lose my temperand for a long time, before I

(13:17):
did anything to probablymentally prepare for being a
business owner, I'd really feelmuch like.
Over the last two years I'vedefinitely turned myself in from
being a builder to a businessowner and that's probably thanks
to like platforms like thatyou've um helped us with.
But I, I was definitely acranky, cranky prick as well.
Well, during the subby stuff,because because you paid rates,

(13:37):
you you got to run to make moneyand you're putting the pressure
on the boys, and I've alwaysbeen quite proud of the way we
leave things and like thequality of the product.
So it's kind of like, hey,hurry up and throw those frames,
but if the frames aren't plumb,well, that's when we'll, when
we'll sub in.
If they're not plumb, you'vegot to come back and fix them
anyway.
So it's like a really fine line, um.

(13:59):
But yeah, so to go back toaround picking up bad habits
from dad, I think the only badhabits I picked up from him is
probably my temper, to be honest, which I look back on it now,
and it was a good thing that Ihad a bit of a temper because I
had some proper rat bags thatworked for me at the early
stages at Loxbeck.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
So you sorted them out?

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yeah, I think my brother sorted them out before I
did, which was good.
But there was a couple when Ilost my brother because we
weren't busy enough to have himthere for a while.
So I kind of had to step backinto the grumpy pants, shoes.
But even I was thinking on theflight up here today, like some
of the kids that I had well,they're men, really.

(14:43):
I'd look them back now andyou'd still call them on the
flight up here today like someof the the kids that I had, um,
well, they're men, really.
I'd look back now and they'dstill.
You'd still call them littleshits because the things that
they'll do, and it's just likefiring up.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
But then what are they?

Speaker 1 (14:53):
doing.
I had a guy that he came to mewith.
He probably listens to podcasts, I'll be careful.
Um, he worked for me.
He came to me as a third yearapprentice and in nine months he
had 42 days off yeah, it's just, and then and then he had TAFE
on top of that as well.
So and then it got to the pointwhere I said, dude, like you
gotta, I'm trying, and he comefrom a pretty, pretty bad

(15:14):
background too.
So I was trying to do the rightthing by giving him a job, I
suppose, and trying to nurturethat um, I suppose transition to
giving him that opportunity,and it just kept biting me in
the ass.
And anyway, I said to him atthe end and he was quite toxic
as well, so he was filteringinto the other apprentices, and
so I just had to nip it in thebutt and two days later he'd

(15:37):
come to me and he's like oh.
And he actually came to me withfive mates like jumping out of
the car and I was on siteputting a window in with another
bloke and he came to me he'sgot like all these puffed up
chairs like at me, he's only,he's only like two foot, nothing
, and I'm I'm not small, so Iwasn't that intimidated but it
was kind of like you're adickhead mate, like pull your

(15:59):
head in.
I've done the best I can.
Like you lost your job becauseyou are the things that you've
done.
I really didn't.
And their mates like and he hadhis mates that were like 40, 40
years old, just chirping at melike you're a and I'm like mate,
I've never, not once, paid you.
I've never done anything wrong.
But I mean again, knowing whatI know now, there's a lot of
systems and processes I probablycould have had in place to to

(16:22):
avoid stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
So again, I've got to learn from it, Don't know it,
don't know it yeah yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
So I mean that was a part of the journey that
eventually eventuated into usgoing and becoming more lock
spec and buy ourselves, whichwas a good stepping stone yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
It is crazy, mate.
Hey, look for anyone thathasn't owned or run a business
like it's.
It's almost like it's not worthwasting your breath trying to
explain things to a mate.
It just goes in one ear and outthe other.
Um, and you, I do think ittakes a pretty special person to
, like a lot of people, have acrack and want to go out on

(17:02):
their own, but it does takespecial people to push and stay
in business, yeah, and continueto improve things and end up
with a good business, because alot of businesses fail, yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
So you got to be a special breed to keep pushing on
yeah, I look at the crew I'vegot now and they're going to
love the shout out, but we'reprobably the smallest crew I've
had in a long, long time.
I think there's only three guyson site.
We've probably got that againin the office, but that's sort
of another story.
But the guys I've got on siteactually want to be there, they

(17:39):
actually want to come to work,they actually want to grow and
develop themselves as well.
And I mean, I do take a littlebit of pride in that too,
because, like you know you, youstart to attract people.
That that, that what you're,what you're putting out there,
is who you attract as well, sothat I'm I'm really proud of

(18:00):
that now.
So, um, yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Did you think you would be where you are now, I
think?
Can you tell us a story abouthow you got involved with
Elevate?
Yeah, cause you come on board,and then you went or you did our
um launchpad, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
I did you come on board.
And then you went or you didour launch pad.
Yeah, I did launch pad.
Please don't take this thewrong way.
I did launch pad probably eight, nine months prior to probably
a bit longer, maybe 12 monthsprior to joining Elevate.
And I remember doing launch padand I did it half-assed, truth
be told, and that was probablythe part where I was starting

(18:37):
starting to do renovate, fullhouse renovations, our bigger
projects, um, and I remember Iremember going, oh, that's
really awesome, like puttingthose things in place and I'd
like sort of put it in the shelfand come back to it later.
And then I had a really, reallydifficult job where the clients
and again it's a lot ofownership's on me about it,
because I didn't sort of set thestandard of what I expect as as

(19:00):
as them, as a client as well,but, um, we were arguing all the
time the solicitors had to getinvolved for, like, late
payments and and those sort ofthings, and I did lose money in.
In hindsight and theconversations I've had now, I
lost a little bit of money, butnot much.
But it's probably been the bestjob I've ever had, purely

(19:21):
because of what's come out of it.
I look at it now and that wasthe catalyst to join Elevate
because I'm just like I can'tkeep.
I overstop building or I make adecent crack of it or I make a
decent crack of it.
And then when I did Launchpad Iwas like and we spoke about

(19:41):
joining Elevate I was like I'mnot spending 10 grand or
whatever it was, on a membershipto be a builder.
That's just crazy, that's juststupid.
I would pay tenfold over onthat.
The things that I know now andthe relationships I've built in
elevate now, um, it's just, youjust don't know what you don't
know and, um, the, the little,the little tricks and the

(20:07):
conversations that you, that youwork with the other builders
and stuff like that has beenamazing.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
so yeah, no, mate, you're great, like it's shown in
your growth.
Like you, um, you've reallycome out of your shell a lot
since you've joined.
But like not only I think haveyou had enormous uh growth in
your business, but likepersonally as well, I've seen
massive changes yeah well, Ithink anybody that really knows
me quite well.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
this is probably the most awkward thing I can do is
public speaking, and I was onlytalking to Anthony the other day
.
I've done quite a few best menspeeches, I think four or five.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
There's probably a few cans of courage involved
there, bart yeah probably.
I know one or two did.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
You can't do that, as you're on an appealing business
but I I really don't liketalking about myself, but I also
love putting myself out thereif it's going to help other
people, like I can hand on heart, when I, when I joined elevate,
I was in there for probably amonth or two before a live event
was on in the gold coast and wedid this thing called um like a

(21:17):
hot seat, and I remember prettyclearly that I think yourself
and amelia um were standingthere and said, oh, everyone's
going to get up on stage and saythat um, he's going to be going
on the hot seat.
So I'm like all right, well,everyone's going to do it, I'll
do it.
And so I just put my hand up todo it straight away, and I love
put myself myself inuncomfortable positions, I

(21:37):
suppose.
And then the irony of it, Ithink only three people had to
do it that weekend.
I was like damn it, I couldn'tput it away.
But what I took away from thatis like it was quite vulnerable,
which is there's a lot ofgrowth and vulnerability.
What I took away from that waslike holy shit, I can do that,
like that was really cool, holy.

(21:58):
From that was like holy shit, Ican do that, like that was
really cool.
Holy shit, I'm not actuallygoing as bad as what I think.
Holy, I've just got so muchgreat things going for me.
I really took a lot away fromthat that literal there's a lot
of self-doubt in there yeah, I,I do.
I suffer from massive impostersyndrome and a lot of self-doubt
, and it's conversations thatyou have with, like the

(22:19):
community and now so many greatmates, that help with that.
Um, like this week alone, I'vebeen nervous for probably three
weeks to have this chat, but thepeople I've been able to talk
to about it like they're justlike, for the love of god, just
see yourself the way we see you,and I take a lot of that.
I took a lot of that today,thinking about that, and I'm

(22:41):
just a lot of people would be inthe same boat as me.
Most people mate.
Like.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
I'm still in the same boat as you.
Like I have imposter syndromejust as much as everybody else.
But like if you don't putyourself out there, you're not
going to get the rewards but.
If you don't put yourself outthere, you're not going to get
the rewards, but you dropped abomb just then.
Vulnerability is where it allstarts.
You've got to surround yourselfwith community and people that

(23:06):
make you feel safe enough thatyou can be vulnerable, and I
think that's one of the thingswe're most proud of with Live
Life Build.
I don't believe you'll find acommunity like it anywhere.
And yeah, when you're'revulnerable, to me, that that's
when the floodgates open.
Yeah, that's when you reallystart to understand what you
need to work on and you youbecome more open-minded and take

(23:29):
ownership for things yeah, Ithink it took me quite a while
to know that I had an issue.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
I suppose because it took that one particular job
that made me think, all right,there's better ways to do things
, and conversations withyourself and other members and
stuff like that I was able togrow and then I honestly can say
that I enjoy being a buildermore than I ever have.

(23:57):
Now we're still having issuesand I don't think those issues
will ever grow ever go away.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Any business mate that says they don't have issues
is kidding themselves.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Especially a building business.
Every single day is a schoolday.
Yeah, you're just constantlylearning how to do it better.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So tell us more about thispersonal stuff, because I look,
the building stuff is one sideof it, but a lot of the time,
like if I say it all the timelike broken record, like if
we're not right, nothing aroundus can be right, and like I know

(24:31):
, like since joining Elevate,like you've had massive personal
growth but relationship growthwith wife, with kids, like it's
been across the board yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
So I would say my my biggest struggle is and
hopefully I can hold it togethermy biggest struggle is
definitely my relationship withmy kids.
Um, I I often have got a badhabit of saying that they're my
priority and not showing it, Isuppose, and I really struggle,
like internally.
I really struggle with thatbecause I know I can do so much

(25:03):
more.
Like my oldest son, we clash alot, he's got it's okay, but
like he's got ADHD and we reallydon't have a relationship that
I was hoping to have.
When I was growing up, I used tothink I want to be an architect

(25:25):
and I want to be a dad Like theother two things.
I'm like that's what I want todo right in this world, and I
can honestly say I'm not thebest dad I want to be right now.
But I know that I've definitelyput things in place and
understanding part of it, likeunderstanding especially my
son's condition and it's not theend of the world, it's
important to know that butunderstanding the way his brain

(25:47):
operates, to um, talk to doctorsand like psychologists and
those sort of things as evenI've been diagnosed with ADHD
and I medicate as well now butto find um, to find the way
their brains work as a, as a 10year old at the time he was an

(26:08):
eight year old and what hisbrain is missing with that like
diagnosis, is just like far out.
But being a typical dad and, um,you know, a pretty busy dude,
you, when they do somethingwrong, that the first thing I'm
doing is I lose my temper.
And I know I'm not alone insaying, like a lot of dads are
like that, and I'm just at astage in my life where I really

(26:31):
want to prioritize um being abetter dad than than what I have
been.
Um, and I know I'm not a baddad, I definitely know that, but
I, I know I can be a better dad.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
It's um so what do you mean?
Be a better day like just moretime?

Speaker 1 (26:47):
yeah, more time, more being more present, like just
and I know a lot of people sayput your phone down when they're
around, like that just littlesimple things like that.
I mean I journal a lot, whichwhich really really helps
reflect on the, the improvementsI've made, but I typically
journal for professional stuffprobably equally, if not more,

(27:08):
than what I do about thepersonal stuff.
So it's probably showing methat my priorities aren't
aligned with you know, mypersonal side of things.
This year I've made heaps ofimprovements.
I'm coaching his footy team,coaching my other son's soccer
team, and it's so rewarding so Ilove doing that.
I loved footy growing up.

(27:32):
I never made it to the NRLl butI made a fairly decent level.
But the to be able to help theyoung bloke and show him those
sort of things was, um, it'sreally cool to just to all.
Right, this is, this is what Ishould be doing.
As you know, clocking off atfour o'clock and then being able
to go and spend time with thekids is what I should have been

(27:55):
prioritizing years ago.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, so it's.
It's pretty important, like thewhole part of the healthy life
is healthy relationships and allthat sort of thing.
I'm the same mate Like I I Idefinitely know I can be a
better father and a betterpartner, like it's.
It's something.
I'm not sure I haven't beendiagnosed with ADHD.
I'm positive I do have it.

(28:17):
I find it really like I've gotto really put in a lot of effort
to focus on those types ofthings.
I don't know if you're the sameLike I know I want to do it and
I know I should do it, but yeah, I'm not sure.
Sometimes it just gets a bitlost.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah, I mean, for me, the biggest switch I've made
over the last few years aroundlike my understanding of the way
ADHD works, is how people'sbrains operate differently.
And, as an adult, to see yourkid, your young bloke he's not,

(28:55):
he doesn't got the same likecoping mechanisms that the other
kids have got like straightaway you're like, all right,
what am I going to do to helphim?
And things like that.
So, um, there's definitelymassive, massive improvements I
can make with my relationshipwith him, but it's baby steps, I
suppose at this stage yeah, butyou're very.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
It's good that you're very aware of it I think that's
the number one thing like onceyou become aware of it, you you
work a lot harder towards it.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, yeah, and there's so much information out
there that you can talk, likeyou can educate yourself of it,
so there's, um you know,countless podcasts that talk
about it.
There's yeah, you gotta, yougotta want to do it too, though,
though that's the biggest thing.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, yeah.
I get so much satisfaction nowjust seeing the smiles on my
girls' faces Like that.
Like just to be able to sitback every now and then and
watch them they're right intotheir horse riding now Like just
to be able to sit on thesidelines and watch them and see
the growth in them.
Like, for me, that's prettymuch what I live for now.

(29:55):
Like I just love it.
Yeah, the same with you sittingback seeing your boy playing
his footy and soccer and yeah,yeah, I do.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
I get a lot out of it and like, even like they score
a try, the first person or theyscore a goal, the first person
they turn around, look at youand smile is is me, and there's
so much joy in that moment.
It's just like firing up.
It's pretty cool.
I don't know if he's going tobe I'm, he goes, all right.
So I don't know if he's goingto like make it down.

(30:22):
I really he supports paramounteels for some stupid reason, but
I don't know I don't know wherethat's come from, because, well
, I mean, my mom supportsparamount up but it's definitely
hasn't come from mom, it's justI think they're just all like
Mitchell Moses for some reason.
I can't hold it against them.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
No, no, I mean, it's his choice I suppose even though
it's the wrong one, but evenyour relationship with your wife
as well, because she's in thebusiness full-time now.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yep, yep.
So we've always gone down the Ithink it's a pretty typical
path where she was astay-at-home mum for a while and
our business was paying her awage.
As the business grew, I neededmore help in the business and
she's come on board.
At one stage it was like oneday, two days.

(31:14):
Now she's three days a week,but really she's probably four,
four and a half, because I'malways hey, can you do this or
can you do that sort of thing?
She runs um, runs the officeand the account side of things
and she's like to see her growthin the last 12 months and
probably, and where she was twoyears ago to now is just yeah, I

(31:36):
mean everybody, all their mosthusbands love their wives, but
I'm just Well, you hope so.
Yeah, you've got to be careful.
But I've grown more in lovewith her, I suppose because of
seeing the growth in her and sheis a really insecure person
like myself, but to see her grow, I suppose professionally, I'm

(32:02):
now even more in love.
It's just yeah, it's prettycool stuff.
She's doing things that she wasnever trained to do in the
business or at school, but she'sdoing things that she's just
got heaps of driving.
Most mums have got that.
It's just a natural thing.
But yeah, she's, she's killingit.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
So I get, like camille and I get reached out to
a lot, um, because everyonesees what we do and knows that
we work together and it's likesome people just say it's like
ridiculous, so they could neverdo it, but I think it's the best
thing ever and and look we Iwon't sugarcoat it like we
definitely, like I don't know,probably the first three, four,

(32:45):
five years, like there was a lotof arguments and look, even
even now there might be the oddargument and we butt heads on
things.
But, um, I think it's learningto respect each other, yeah, and
understand what ticks eachother off and what each other
can handle.
I know it's been a massive onefor me to learn with camille
like I, I can handle a lot ofshit.

(33:08):
Like I don't care, like peoplejust keep throwing shit at me,
I'll just keep taking it.
But um, like with like witheverything, workload, the whole
lot, whereas Camille gets veryanxious if she starts to get too
overwhelmed by how much she'sgot to do or manage or whatever
the case may be.
And then you throw the kids ontop of that and all the other
stuff that comes with it, and um, and that's where I've sort of

(33:31):
learned I need to step up alittle bit.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Um, not, I've sort of learned I need to step up a
little bit.
Yeah, not just at work, butlike we can't both be working in
the business and then herlooking after the kids.
Like I need to help with thekids, I need to cook dinner, I
need to do things.
Yeah, again, I'll put my handup, like I definitely drop the
ball on the cooking, the dinnerthing quite regularly, but, yeah
, I've got to consciously putsome effort into that.
But I just think it's the bestthing ever, mate, like yeah, to

(33:56):
be able to work together, get onwell, be able to schedule our
lives and our businesses aroundwhat our family wants to do and
holidays and yeah, horse likekids events and things like I
just think it's brilliant yeah,I, I actually enjoy having my
wife in the business more than Ithought I would.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
to be fair, yeah.
And I love to be able to say mywife's in the business, because
it's kind of like a feather inyour cap sort of thing that
you're making it work asprofessionally and personally,
because, like you said, somepartners wouldn't be able to do
that and there's nothing wrongwith that, but it's kind of like
this is pretty cool that we cando that yeah we can.

(34:38):
If the kids have got like asports carnival or something
like that, all right, let's bothbe there for the kids and all
right, I might have to work backanother half an hour that night
or something like that, butwe're both there and the kids
see that.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
That's that's pretty.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, I think it's huge and Ithink that's all part of running
a successful building businessis structuring it to suit
yourself, your life, your kids,like um, yeah, or your holidays
and those types of things I knowwith camille another big
thing's just been um like meunderstanding when she needs

(35:11):
time out.
Yeah, like I don't know if yousee it, but I'm not very good at
recognizing that.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
I I do, but I'm also, um, my wife, she, she puts a
lot of things in place to makeherself busy instead of
prioritizing herself.
And it's that's probably wherewe hug you, to be fair, because
I'm like can you please just goget a massage or can you go in,
like whatever, go for a walk, orsomething like that.

(35:39):
But she's like oh, I've got todo lunches or I've got to go.
So, yeah, I'm still learning topolitely kick her out the door
to go do those sort of things,but I think it's you've got to
make that a real key sort ofgoal, to be able to prioritize
you, their mental well-being aswell as your own and like how do
you find it managing the like?

Speaker 2 (36:00):
do you do you work from home or you got an office?

Speaker 1 (36:02):
yep, oh, we're about to make the transition into an
office space, which is reallyexciting because I mean, at the
moment, um, I mean no kids havedone wheeze on the fall and
fallen through I know the storyum, but at the moment, like it
in especially rush hour beforeschool and I'm on a meeting, a
call or something like that, youcan hear all the the screaming

(36:25):
and the foot pedal, the footsteps upstairs.
But it also gives me theopportunity like if she's really
struggling, I can run upstairsand pull them in the line.
So professionally it's probablynot the best setup to be fair,
but personally it's.
If I can be there, be there tohelp, it's all right.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
So yeah, yeah, um.
So mate, where, like where tofrom here, like you've you've
had a lot of growth in the lastfew years like what's um, what's
on the radar, um I'm at.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
I am at a bit of a crossroads at the moment, to be
honest.
But, um, personally I want to.
I want to prioritize mypersonal well-being definitely.
I've got quite a lot of passionaround having conversations
with dads and other builders andstuff like that.
Um, but business-wise, I mean,we've got a lot of work in
pre-construction currently, butthey're months away and

(37:20):
thankfully we've got a littlerenovation opportunity for
ourselves for the next sixmonths.
So, going forward, my pipelineis really important to me to get
right as part of the business.
So I've always struggled toreach out to designers and
architects.
That's something that, um, I'vegotten really much better at.

(37:43):
I don't know if I'm perfect atit yet, but I'm.
I used to have theseconversations like if I was to
reach out to a designer, I would.
I think I even was at one stagewriting scripts of how I should
look up for other businesstraining and stuff like that pre
the pre-course script and stuffReally really helpful.
But now I can ring up adesigner if a plan's come across
our table and I can just chewthe fat, which is really good

(38:06):
because I'm growing as abusiness.
So, yeah, professionally,that's basically where I'm
sitting with that one.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Because you do the odd speccy for yourself as well
yeah, um, like, is more of thatstuff on the radar?
Or like now that you've like,because you hear the story in
the industry the whole time,like every builder wants to do
their own projects yeah, how hasthat?
Scenario changed a little bitnow that you've figured out how
to run your business better um,I think I'll always probably

(38:38):
probably aspire to do one ofthose a year.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Um, I definitely don't think it's as appealing as
what it probably was once upona time.
If you've got to borrow money,in particular, um, if you
haven't set it up properly, likeand again with your accounting
side of things, you've got tomake sure you've got the right,
like who's borrowing the money,who's building who's those type
of things.
There's a lot in the backgroundthat's got to be considered.

(39:02):
It's not just as simple asgoing to buy a block of land for
you know 500 grand, going tobuild a house for you know 700
and sell it for 1.5.
It's just, it doesn't work likethat, um.
But I know that my business cancan now more so than ever now,
and the things that we'velearned over the last few years
is it can handle a lot more thanwhat it could have two years

(39:24):
ago, 12 months ago.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
So yeah, I think it's important, uh, to point out
like I I feel there's a lot ofmom and dad, developers and um
investors and things out therethat are making a lot of money
off the back of builders, thatare running shit businesses yeah
yeah, because they're literallymaking the cream that, yeah,
the builder should have beenmaking as part of his profit.

(39:46):
Yeah, um, by doing the work.
Yeah, um, so, yeah, it'ssomething I'm a big advocate for
.
Like, part of getting buildersrunning better businesses is, um
, to, I guess, stop peopletaking advantage of them.
Yeah, like be blunt, I guess,but, um, it's definitely not
what it's all cracked up to be,is it like?
Yes, you can make good moneyout of it, but, um, because I

(40:07):
know, when we started doing ourown developments, like you, you
sell them or you, you keep themin your random out or whatever,
and you think, oh man, this isfantastic like I've made
whatever 100 grand, 400 grand,whatever the case may be,
depending on the job.
But now, like doing everythingthat I do, like being able to
make the proper margins throughdoing work for clients and not

(40:32):
having all the stress of havingto fund the projects, manage the
projects and not having all thestress of having to fund the
projects, manage the projects,keep the team busy, like all
those types of things just Ithink is freaking fantastic.
But, like you say, we stillwant to do the projects on the
side because it is like a littlebit of cream.
But do you run your projects asif you're doing them for
somebody else, like you set up acompany or whatever trust or

(40:54):
however you structure it do youbuild it for that person no.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
so the one I've done most recently I kind of was
almost like a do and chargething, so very, very naive and
very unprofessional of myself todo that.
But I won't be doing it likethat again because, like for one
, I didn't make as much money asI would have thought because we
really specced it up to go onfor some awards.
But in hindsight I would havebeen 100% better off just going

(41:23):
to build a million-dollarproperty for a client, because
now I know my numbers, now allthe things that I know I've got
to put in, and then I wouldn'thave had any risk whatsoever,
knowing that you're running agood business and there's no
risk in doing that and you dodeliver a good product.
So it's not as if they're goingto come back to you and, you

(41:46):
know, take you to the cleaners,but I don't know.
There's a really fine line, Ithink.
But you can't do it just goingin there with not educating
yourself and having the rightteam around you particularly
like your accountant and maybefinancial advisor and stuff like
that.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
So, yeah, it takes it's like everything.
It takes a big team effort.
You got to make sure you searcharound, get the right advice
and things we um, we learned allthat the hard way as well.
Like now, we do a developmentand it's like I treat the
development just like I wouldtreat any other client like it's
set up properly and my buildingbusiness quotes it for that
other entity and we treat thatentity as a client.
We still do all the contract, westill do variations, all those

(42:25):
types of things, because, um, Iwant all my entities to make
money.
I don't want to just dodevelopments for myself.
And, yeah, um, my buildingbusiness looks like it suffers
or has made a loss or hasn'tmade a lot of money, but I feel
like I've made a like some moneyby selling a project.
Yeah, I think people get reallysucked into that.
Yeah, um, yeah, so it's good.

(42:46):
I love talking to otherbuilders that are, that are
doing developments and growingtheir businesses and things,
because it's it's really, reallyimportant that not only
builders but trades, like we all, talk to each other.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Hey, yeah, yeah, I, um, so I for a long time, like I
said earlier, I I suffer fromimposter syndrome, um, and I
don't think that's ever going togo away, but I'm like I've
learned to live with that nowactually.
So that's a, that's a positive,but they're like, I would say,
about six to nine months agothere was a local guy that I

(43:19):
honestly thought it wascompetition, because I've never
had a conversation with him.
I honestly thought we werepricing against each other.
I got to know him just throughjust reaching out, just checking
in.
He put something up and Ireached out to him saying, hey,
just checking in to see howyou're going, and we catch up

(43:39):
every single week to have a chat, and the stuff that he goes
through is just like holy shit.
We've never been competitive.
As I look at it now, he's doinglike your four or five million
dollar builds, but mentallywe've been able to be there for
each other and bounce off eachother.
Some of the stuff he's got togo through hopefully he doesn't

(44:00):
mind me mentioning this actually, but some of the stuff he's had
to go through over the lastcouple of months it's just those
simple conversations that we'vehad together has really helped
each other, which is really,really cool and I take a lot of
enjoyment out of out of that.
I I take as much enjoyment ofum putting myself out there for

(44:21):
other people.
If that, if it can help them,that makes me feel good.
And I don't know if that's aselfish thing or not, but I kind
of, I kind of like, I likebeing vulnerable if it's going
to help other people and I lovehaving those conversations and
I'm the same.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
I don't think it's been.
Yeah, I don't think it's like.
I think that's what, what helpsyeah like the more we all talk,
the more we're vulnerable, themore we share stories like yeah
it's, it's the only way that ourindustry is gonna, yeah, thrive
.
Yeah, um, because otherwiseeveryone's just batting their
butt in the head against a wall,yeah, dealing with the same

(44:55):
shit that everyone else hasalready been through.
So why not spread the knowledgeand help each other out?

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, I think I spent a long time not thinking
locally that I'm against him.
I'm against him.
Are we quoting against eachother?
Do I undercut him, all thosesort of things now and now?
Not that particular builder,but like in generalization, now
I look at it, I'm like I'd bebetter off having a chat to that

(45:21):
builder saying are you good,like I know for a fact that I
get put up against oneparticular builder all the time
and we just won a job veryrecently that we were, I think,
another 20 grand more than them,but the client chose us because
of the relationship that I andthe client had.
But that builder's beenslagging me about it and I'm

(45:42):
just like maybe let's just catchup for a chat, because I'm not
trying to undercut you, I'm justit's a very old school
mentality.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
There is no competition.
Yeah, yeah, builders I thinkthat whole like architects have
created that competition throughthe tendering scenario.
Yeah, because ultimately,that's all the tendering
scenario is.
It's a competition to be thelowest price.
Yeah, as simple as that.
Yeah, and that model is never,ever going to get anyone a great

(46:11):
outcome.
Yeah, like I.
I wish there was data on it,but I would.
I would imagine that I wouldhighly doubt that most contracts
that get awarded throughtendering scenarios end up being
that value Zero.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Maybe I would say it's near zero.
Everyone just knows.
The reality is, if you win acontract through a tendering
scenario, there is always goingto be variations and things.
Things change, but thereshouldn't be competition in the
building industry.
Like people this this has beencoming up a lot in the last

(46:52):
couple of weeks.
Actually, like the wholeindustry needs to really get
away from that race to thebottom and and the focus on the
price.
Yeah, race to the bottom andand the focus on the price.
Yeah, because the focus needsto be on the value that the
building business adds to thehomeowner, whether it's through,
uh, improving their life,through building them a

(47:13):
healthier home, whether it'sthrough, um, just creating a new
lifestyle for them through anew home or renovation, like,
whatever, like there's a millionthings it can be?

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Where do you see that conversation happening with
clients, though?

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Well, I don't talk about costs at all.
Really, like my wholeconversation with clients now is
all based around on the valuethat I can add to them.
Like I really see like we'reseeing a lot more of it the more
that I educate.
Like we've got a client at themoment actually, um, probably a
really good example that I'vejust seen this big like they

(47:54):
want a healthy home and, uh,we're really going down that
path heavily, um to the pointwhere we're creating our own
healthy home specification, butthe architect on this particular
job is just really missing.
Like I feel like we havemeetings and I take in what the

(48:14):
client says, but the architecthas missed it quite badly and
we've got the first round ofdrawings and all just
preliminary sort of ideas andlike I've literally looked at it
for five minutes and gone.
That is absolutely nothing likewhat the client is trying to
achieve, yeah, and so I've hadto put my big boy shoes on and

(48:36):
step in and say hang on a minute, like that.
I'm like this is only mypersonal opinion, but from
everything that I've heard atthe meetings, that house isn't
what you want.
Yeah, and it's a hard decisionto have, because now I got the
architect on my back.
Yeah, I'm the bad guy, but Ithink where builders really need
to, um, step up a bit more islike we wouldn't have any work

(49:03):
if it wasn't for clients.
Yeah, so we're there becausethe client trusts us to build
them something, or they've cometo us because of they've seen
our socials, they've heard ouradvice, or whatever the case may
be.
They've come to us because theythey've trust us.
Yeah, so I take that prettypersonally and I want to make
sure that I give them as muchinformation as I possibly can.

(49:23):
Um, I make it very clear withclients that you may not like my
opinions, but I'll always putthem forward.
Um, my opinions are only everbased on my interpretation of
what you've told me you want.
Yeah, and it's always along thelines that I want to make sure
I get you the best product I canfor what you want to spend with
me.
And, like when you start havingconversations like that,

(49:45):
clients just fall in love withit, yeah.
So, yeah, back to what you'veasked for.
We've really had to step in onthis job and it's gone.
It's been it's over a fewmonths period now, but it's
really gone on this long journeyfrom the client pulling the

(50:11):
brakes on the project, wantingto do more homework around
materials, coming back anddeciding that they're more than
happy to reduce the size of thehouse to make sure they actually
get materials that they want.
Yeah, to now actually only inthe last couple of days them
going well, look we actuallywe're going.
We're going to increase ourbudget by like.
So it started at 800, went to1.2, and now they're talking

(50:34):
about a two million dollarbudget.
And that is all purely througheducation, because they now have
a really good understanding.
So we've sent them links tothings.
We've actually now had two sitemeetings on past projects.
We've put them in contact withpeople that I don't have enough
expertise in so that they can dotheir own research, and they

(50:56):
just love it.
They're like this is what we'vewanted.
So these guys actually havetried to build twice before um,
and both times they've ended upwith drawings that didn't suit
what they wanted and they feltlike people weren't listening to
them.
Wow, and now, after dealing withus for three months, they're
like this is what we've wantedthe entire time we just wanted
someone that was going to sitand listen to what we wanted,

(51:19):
not give us all everything theywanted, not tell us what their
business was going to give us.
Yeah, and educate us on.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
Give us the options, and they're just over the moon
so on that, though, like you we,you've clearly got a business
to teach builders how to do runbetter businesses.
Do you believe, like theassociations, could do more to
help educate clients around?
because I, in my business, I'vestruggled with um, um, like we

(51:48):
don't do, probably the bigger asbigger projects as what you do,
but and it's mostly young mumand dad, so they're I don't
think it matters on the size ofthe project, matt no, no, but
like the more I struggle a lotaround educating clients, uh,
what their expectation of whatthings cost to the reality of
what things cost, and I like tothink I can articulate things

(52:09):
pretty well, but it's still likeI'm constantly banging my head
up against the wall and I dobelieve it's.
I don't know if I'm allowed tosay it, but there's shows like
on the block and on those, um,like telling people that you can
build a house for you know acouple hundred grand and and

(52:30):
being able to walk away.
I just, I just really thinkthat the missing link could be
something like an associationthat links the builders, the
clients and the and the ownersto help train them and educate
themselves, and I know there isplatforms out there.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
I'm not sure.
Obviously, amelia and I do thata lot.
She does the undercoverarchitect thing as well and
teaches the homeowners a lot ofstuff.
But look, mate, again it allcomes back to pricing.
You look at everything that'sin the media, look at all the
I've just seen a few this weekfrom our associations.
Like everybody is banging onabout the cost of living and the

(53:07):
affordability of housing andhow much price increase, like
how much it's increased to buildsomething over the last sort of
three or four years.
And then, like you see thenumbers that come out in the
last three weeks with um, we'reon track this financial year,
literally in a few days' time,end of this financial year to go

(53:28):
over 3,000 builders goinginsolvent in a 12-month period.
So that's three times what itwas pre-COVID and that just
proves my point and the datathat I keep talking about.
Like I firmly believe that over80 percent of builders are
trading insolvent.
So instead of the industry,associations and bodies and

(53:51):
governments banging on about howmuch it costs to build, they
actually need to fucking figureout how how building a building
business operates.
Yeah, because you like evenyou're seeing a lot of tier one
builders or like tier one,builders that have been around
for, like I think there's one atthe moment that they're worried
it's going to go under andthey've been around for 100
years and that's because, likethey spruik about it, like they

(54:15):
turn out, you hear all thesestories about these builders
turn over hundreds of millionsof dollars or billions of
dollars and making two percentprofit margins.
Yeah, like it's unsustainable,which is getting proven now by
the numbers of builders that aregoing broke.
So I am I dead set, believe thatwith everything we teach at

(54:36):
live life building, our elevateprogram, um, I like I'd love to
get in front of government, mate, I'm so confident that I can, I
can reduce the cost of housing.
We can build more houses.
We can definitely deliverbetter quality.
Yeah, um, through runningbetter businesses, yeah, like,

(54:59):
to me it's a no-brainer.
Like you, you think about, like, how many people come into our
Live Life Build program.
Like you've seen a lot ofmembers that come in and the
improvements they have.
So like if you can take theaverage builder, which we know,
that the average builder inAustralia builds between one and
three jobs a year.
They're generally on the toolsthemselves, but if you give them

(55:20):
the right tools, the rightadvice, the right systems and
processes, they can go frombuilding one to three jobs a
year, not making much money,running around like headless
chickens, not delivering goodquality or not the quality
they'd like to deliver, becausethey're all too focused on
trying to build cheaper so theycan win more work and actually

(55:43):
get them running a business,where generally most of the time
it's by putting someone inplace to help them with
administration yeah they can twoto four times their profit,
their turnover, their businessby becoming more efficient and
actually delivering clientsbetter products.
So just by learning how to run abetter business.

(56:03):
You and this like you'retalking one builder.
If one builder goes from one tothree homes a year to two to
six homes a year, yeah, like youimagine if every single builder
in australia had that growth?
Yeah, that's how that solvesour housing problem.
Like we've just built enoughhouses to house everybody.
Yeah, then you add to that thatthe builder's running a

(56:25):
profitable business.
So you imagine if we get everybuilder in australia running
profitable businesses, that willreduce the cost of housing
because we are all paying moreto cover the costs that are
getting lost by builders goingbankrupt.
Like I know two businesses thisfinancial year that between
both one's a hardware business,one's a metal business Between

(56:48):
those two businesses like thisis only two businesses between
two businesses here in SoutheastQueensland they're going to
write off over $11 million inthis financial year of unpaid
invoices from builders thatcan't pay their bills or have
gone broke.
Wow, so that money just doesn'tdisappear.
Like that money is built intothe cost that I pay for my metal
and that I pay for my hardware.

(57:09):
Yeah, so if we can get everybuilder running profitable
businesses that actually paytheir bills, all of our costs
will come down, because everybusiness in the building
industry, all the supply chain,transport, everyone will stop
having to cover bills thataren't getting paid.
Yeah, like it's huge, mate.
I love it.
I just need to get in front ofthe right people, yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
How do you do that?
Who are you going to talk to?

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Just keep talking shit on this podcast, mate, and
more people listen.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
We're not talking shit.
It's real, that's the best.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
it's real, mate, it's real, like I'll just tell it
how it is.
So, um, but look, it's builderslike yourself, mate, that are
putting in the effort, like if,if, like you, coming here today
telling your story, will inspiremore builders to reach out, get
help work on themselves,improve their business.
So it it's growing like thetidal wave started.
Yeah, like um, you were up herea few weeks ago, you saw, you

(58:05):
saw my event yeah, yeah, thatwas amazing.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
It's um.
Fortunately, I've been to a fewlive events, but nothing like
that before.
Um, just to see the, the growthin the room and the, the young.
I like seeing the young dudesthere.
I don't think they were therejust for the beer, but, like
everyone like Well.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
I can tell you they weren't mate because we were
very sorry to butt in there butwe were pretty conservative of
our beer amount that we neededto get Like, I think we only
allowed like two or three beersper person.
Yeah, we had a pallet and ahalf of beer left over, wow, so
there was not a lot of drinkingyeah, that's not a bad thing

(58:47):
though which is like you thinkin a building industry you put
an event on like.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
But if anything that's a good like I think, it's
great the people were there forthe right reason yeah, that's
great yeah, like that's what Ireally enjoyed seeing the young
dudes.
I was able to take our leadinghand up with us and he loved it.
He was starstruck when he sawyou.
He was starstruck when he sawCraig.
But I was the same.
I can still remember the firsttime I spoke to you and to Craig

(59:15):
and a couple of the real keymembers of Elevate, but at that
event last week we were allthere.
We're all there as mates.
We're all there sharinginformation.
The elevate members that wereon stage were sharing their
stories and and I still look Italk to those guys weekly and I
still look at them as very muchheroes like, um, yeah, the.

(59:39):
The information that you canget by a simple conversation of
another builder or another youngdude is just limitless, I
reckon yeah, we've all got totalk more like that's yeah, my
um, we'll definitely do anotherevent next year because of the
feedback's just been unreal.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Like even people that weren't even there, like
everyone that's there is justtalking about it.
So like people that aren't,like we're getting messages from
people that weren't even therethat are like hey, like how do
we book for next year?
like we've got to make sure weshow up to this thing.
So, look, I'd love to get 2 000people next year.
Yeah, like, we.
Um, we ended up having 832, Ithink it was for the day.

(01:00:19):
Wow, um.
So, yeah, next year the goal isto try and crack 1500, 2000.
Yeah, um, but again, that justties into what I just talked
about.
Like, every builder that we canget running and not just
builders like tradies as well,but every person in the building
industry that we can getrunning a better business, more

(01:00:39):
profitable, more successful.
Um, for me, the, the, thewinner out of all this is the
homeowners.
Yeah, like, we've got to get.
Homeowners need to startgetting what they should be
getting.
Yeah, like, and uh, we're goingto see a lot of change with
that, with the new codes andthings, with healthy homes and
all the new uh rules andregulations and stuff.

(01:01:00):
So, look, I'm really excitedabout the future.
I think it's fantastic.
Guys like yourself sharingstories, it's all helping, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
I think the new code changes is going to be the best
thing, like we're finallybuilding houses the way we
should be building and there's abit of a mandate that it has to
be done that way now, which onI think for the last they're not
10 or so years there hasn'tbeen any, any accountability for
that.
So it's pretty excitingactually and, like you said, the

(01:01:32):
best thing is the owners, the,the clients, are the ones that
are going to benefit from thatas well as the young dudes
coming up too, because nowthey're learning how to do
things properly.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Yeah, actually, mate, before we wrap it up, you've
mentioned that you've had lotsof apprentices over the years
and stuff.
How do we get more young peopleinto the industry and get them?

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
to stay, to stay, I would say, training.
This might be contentious, butI believe the incentives that
are offered to the apprenticesis the wrong way around.
I believe they're going toincentivize the, the builder,
obviously, to give the money tothe, to the apprentice, but hey,

(01:02:15):
make sure you go buy, like yourtools, or let's take you to a
training seminar or somethinglike that.
That's how I think it because,that's how it should be.
I don't believe it should belike here's 10 grand, go go buy
your you know eight thousanddollar kit and keep the rest,
sort of thing.
Um, I just I believe, bringingyour, your, your team, to like

(01:02:35):
um training events, taking themto show them, like not long ago
we took um our team down to theFrames and Trusts company, it
doesn't sound like a funexcursion, but to watch the guys
learn and I learned a lot aswell that's got to help.
It's just to keep theminterested in the industry.

(01:02:57):
I really believe that they'vegot to have a goal and they've
got to have a boss that wants tohelp them with that goal as
well so it's like a two-partthing, I suppose yeah,
definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
I agree, 100, mate, the.
The incentives need to be givento the employers yeah, um,
employers need to like, be ableto, and and look it's hard
because, like, a lot ofemployers will just pocket it.
Yeah, but there needs to besome sort of way that's used to
help them get a good toolkit,get the right training.

(01:03:28):
Yeah, and I think another bigpart of it is being healthy as
well, like we've got to getyoung guys being healthier and
turning up to work.
I don't know what it is thesedays, but I used to have some
absolute benders and I wouldstill turn up to work.
It was on me but I just knew Ihad to work.

(01:03:48):
I'm not sure about your team,but we just see so many days off
from our younger people.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Yeah, I mean of my team now.
I don't think any of us aredrinkers now, but yeah, the
young bloke I spoke about before, I think it consistently was a
Friday or a Monday that he wastaken off and I'm just like I'm
not an idiot mate, Like it'sjust that sort of stuff, Like
that education, I believe.
And I do believe that thegeneration is shifting, Like

(01:04:17):
there's less partying andwhatnot, but probably they're
starting to vary growth morethan what they probably would
have in the past.
So that's something to lookforward to, I suppose, finally.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
So I definitely.
I hope so, man.
I hope you're right, because mygirls are getting to that age
where they're not far off goingout and I hope they're.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
I hope it's all about growth and not partying you're
a pretty decent place to havesome parties either, yeah that's
um mate.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Look, really appreciate you flying up today
and having a chat and um, I knowyou're hanging around.
We're going to do a grouppodcast.
We got the godfather coming in,so I'm looking forward to that
one as well yeah but, um, mate,keep doing what you're doing,
like I'm I'm super proud of you.
I think it's fantastic.
Your growth is I've said thisto you a few times, but you can

(01:05:04):
see in your posture and yourglow how you've changed.
You're more confident inyourself, you speak better and I
just think it's fucking awesome.
Appreciate it, mate.
That's awesome.
All right guys, look, I hopeyou've enjoyed today's podcast.
Uh, make sure you like,subscribe all those types of

(01:05:24):
things.
Tell every person in thebuilding industry about this.
If you haven't been to mywebsite, duanepeircecom, and got
a hold of your merch, make sureyou get on board with it.
And, um, yeah, we'll see you onthe next episode.
Are you ready to build smarter,live better and enjoy life?

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
then head over to live like buildcom forward slash
, elevate to get started.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Everything discussed during the Level Up podcast with
me, dwayne Pearce, is basedsolely on my own personal
experiences and thoseexperiences of my guests.
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in

(01:06:15):
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.