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Join us as we chat with John Oxley from Sydney Beach Homes about his inspiring journey. From the tender age of eight, under the mentorship of a neighbourhood builder, John discovered his calling. Despite the allure of a stable family business, he took the bold path to construction, securing an apprenticeship in a most unconventional way. His story speaks to the power of persistence and making daring life choices that can shape a fulfilling career.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
you feel very vulnerable.
I thought my solution to all myproblems was to work longer and
harder.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
So what drove you to do that Like?
I'm really interested on this.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yeah, if you're unhappy and you don't do
anything about it, you're gonnaremain unhappy.
So I had to make some prettybig decisions in my life.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm giving you a big hug as soon as we stand up.
G'day guys.
Welcome back to another episodeof Level Up.
We are down in Manly today, soShane and I have been up at 3.30
this morning.
We've flown down to Sydneybecause I've got an incredible
opportunity tonight I'm actuallybeing a guest speaker at Manly

(00:39):
Master Builders, manly Warringah, and the reason I'm able to do
that is because of thisincredible person sitting here
with me today John Oxley fromSydney Beach Homes.
How are you, mate?
Good Dwayne, how are you?
Excellent, mate.
I've been looking forward tothis for a very long time and I
really appreciate the offer thatMaster Builders has made to
come down here and get up andspeak in front of people tonight

(01:01):
.
So that's my mission.
I'm absolutely committed togetting in front of as many
builders, as many traders aspossible and just showing
everybody that anybody can turntheir life around, turn their
business around and besuccessful.
Yeah, just quickly give a littlebit of background.
So john and I met about eightor nine years ago.
If you listen to podcasts allthe time you'd hear the story
like that's back when I was, um,doing a little bit of work.

(01:21):
I did three months months withthe Builders Coach and John was
part of that coaching programand I ended up being put into
what was called an inner circlegroup.
John was part of that and, yeah, I guess we just set it off.
We had a few conversations andwe've stayed in touch through
social media, so it wouldliterally be eight years since I
seen you.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, for sure In person, Yep, and it doesn't feel
like that, and I'm surprisedthis hasn't happened sooner.
But here we are.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah Well, we've spoken about it, we've talked
about it a lot, we have, but itjust doesn't happen.
Yeah, we have.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
I feel like we're on very similar pathways.
Yeah, you've definitely 10x'dit.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Well, mate, it's the only way You've got to Look now
like I, I just would have keptgoing round and round circles if
I hadn't pushed myself like yougotta.
You need that consistency, youneed that that drive um.
But like, tell us, john's gotan incredible story, um, and
we've got a lot to talk through.
But like, can you give us alittle bit of background?
Like, obviously you've gotsydney beach homes, um, which is

(02:19):
an amazing company like youguys.
Check them out.
They build incredible homes.
Um, how did you become abuilder, or what drove you to be
a builder?

Speaker 1 (02:26):
yeah, I I can honestly say that that at the
age of eight, um, my interestswere peaked then.
Um lived in a little quietcul-de-sac in avalon and a guy
was building his own house, um,in the street a few doors up,
and I introduced myself and hewas at eight years old, like

(02:46):
yeah, dead set, had plastictools and and thongs and
whatever, and he and he kind ofjust took me under his wing.
It was quite remarkable.
The guy ended up.
He was Bob Ryan, who did atalkback show, building show on
the ABC, and you know myincredible patience for him to
to allow me to work on his siteafter school and on weekends and

(03:09):
stuff for a couple of years.
And yeah, that, I think, wasreally that seed had been
planted then.
And, yeah, fast forward, youknow, went through to HSC and
then almost took over my dad'sbusiness, which is a nets and
ropes business that had beenestablished for over 100 years.

(03:30):
So his great grandfather hadstarted it and I was the
youngest of five siblings andthe others hadn't been
interested.
And so I kind of A lot ofpressure there, yeah, a bit of
pressure, look, it wasn'tsomething I was overly
interested in doing.
A lot of pressure there, yeah,a bit of pressure, look, it
wasn't something I was overlyinterested in doing.
And probably six months afterschool of working there, I just
said, look, I can't do thisanymore.

(03:51):
And I started an apprenticeship, which was hard because it was
sort of halfway through the year.
So what I did was I wroteletters to a lot of builders on
the northern beaches.
I think I got one responsebecause I was at TAFE.
But they said, look, you can'tkeep going with TAFE unless you
get a job as a carpenter.
And then I was actually workingat my dad's factory at

(04:13):
Engleburn, which is miles awayit's like an hour and a half
away down south.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
What made you think of writing letters to people?

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Look, I just think it's a nice way to to introduce
yourself to people.
But I took it to the next level.
There was a a guy building somefactories across the road from
my dad's work and I just wantedover the road and introduced
myself to this bloke and and hewas a big german guy and, uh, he
was building this factory youknow units with his super and he

(04:41):
also had a uh petitioningcompany um and I just said, hey
gang, look, I'm looking for anapprenticeship.
And he also had a petitioningcompany um, and I just said, how
you going?
Look, I'm looking for anapprenticeship.
And he, mate, he just right out, mate, you know, I appreciate
you, you've been up front and hesaid, right, I make sure, turn
up to this job in chatswood onmonday and you can start.
That was it.
That was it and and it was itwasn't the most exciting work,
it was.
It was commercial um, workingwith steel studs and frames and

(05:04):
petitioning and jip rocking andstuff.
But it was an introduction tothe building game and I I kept
pursuing um, I wanted to do thecarpentry, that was my passion
um and kept having had myfeelers out.
I think there was a anotheremployer who was uh used to do
refurbishment of schools andstuff.
So I was with him six months.
A local builder yeah, um, thatwas boring, that was just

(05:28):
rehanging doors and fixing, youknow, termite damage floors and
but still an experience, yeah,um.
And then I ended up with alocal builder, um, in the
cottage industry, uh, who was acraftsman you know, it was just
him and me for the rest of theduration of my apprenticeship
and he was a cabinet maker bytrade.
So he he was super fussy about,like the tension the detail he

(05:52):
would allow me to spend a day tohang a door to get it right.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
You know I think it's important for younger people to
hear this, because you, like somany people, get stuck at jobs
that aren't getting them wherethey want to go, and like I did
the same, like I had two bossesduring my time because the first
boss wasn't really at the time,I didn't think he was giving me
what I needed but, and so Imoved on to another one and I'm
glad I did, because the firstboss was all very custom
architectural, one-off homes,and then the second one was

(06:18):
actually volume work, so I hadthe detail and then the volume
guy got my speed.
So I think you gotta likedifferent experiences yeah, like
yeah, if I think if you don'thave, either you need to get
that experience during yourapprenticeship or when you
finish your apprenticeship youneed to go and sub it to
different builders.
Like I feel like a lot of um,our industry is losing a lot of

(06:39):
craftsmen because they're doingthese apprenticeships where and
it doesn't matter like plumbing,plastering, whatever, like like
you get plumbing apprenticesthat work for big companies and
they they're doing theseapprenticeships where and it
doesn't matter like plumbing,plastering, whatever, like you
get plumbing apprentices thatwork for big companies and
they're in a crew and all theydo is underslabs or all they do
is rough ends.
Or you get a plasterer thatonly does sheeting or only does
setting, or you get a carpenterthat only does framing.
They don't get that widevariety of skills.

(07:00):
They don't get to know theirfull trade.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
No, I agree with that wide variety of skills.
They don't get to know theirfull trade.
No, I agree with that.
And three years of a carpentryapprenticeship completed and
then a fourth year in the trade.
And then I actually had a yearoff traveling.
My old man was into yachts andhe bought a yacht in Finland and
couldn't afford to get itdelivered back to Australia, so
he sent my brother and I over tosail it back, which was an

(07:23):
incredible experience.
That's unreal.
Nine months.
Had you done shit like thatbefore?
Oh look, he'd always had boatsand I used to get dragged out on
.
You know I didn't love it, yeah.
But going across oceans is, oh,it was well incredible Coming
that distance.
My older brother was 25 at thetime.
I'd just turned 21.
Holy, I was 25 at the time, I'djust turned 21.

(07:44):
Holy shit.
Yeah, that was a pretty coolexperience to share with my
brother.
But also, you know, there's Ithink, most of the beautiful
places in the world are on aharbour somewhere.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
I know we're here to talk about building, but, like
you said, finland, finland, yeah.
So where did you have to go?
I assume you had to sort of hugland for a certain time and
then make crossings.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, good question.
We went through the Kiel Canal,through Germany which was an
experience and then went sort ofthrough the North Sea to
Southampton and then across theBay Biscay down to Portugal, and
the plan was my brother had seta course to go right into the
Mediterranean and through theSuez Canal, so that's probably

(08:24):
the shortest way to get toAustralia.
And talk about bad timing.
We'd got to Gibraltar, which isat the mouth of the
Mediterranean, and the Gulf Warhad broken out, that was well
and truly underway, and BobHawke had sent three frigates
which pretty much condemned theAustralian flag.
There were stories of fishingvessels getting shot out of the

(08:46):
water by Iraqi aeroplanes andstuff, so it was a very real
threat.
We got as far as Tunis, northAfrica, which is, you know,
french-speaking but Muslimmostly, yeah, and got a
reasonably hostile receptionthere.
So my brother somehow, you know,at a young age had a hell of a

(09:07):
lot of experience sailingdecided we'd go back out and do
a double Atlantic crossing, soacross to Rio to Cape Town and
then from Cape Town to Melbournethrough the Southern Ocean,
which was I'd been reading booksabout it, and they measured
waves of 200 feet down there andships getting snapped in half
Because you've got the wetsiliesblowing around Antarctica and

(09:28):
the waves don't hit anything, sothey just keep getting bigger
and bigger.
You know, um, not always likethat, but the, I think, 33 days
from Cape Town to Melbourne atsea, um, you know, and it was
cold, we had a couple ofsnowfalls, um, and you know
we're taking Castle Lager beer,which is the South African beer,
out of the cupboard frosty.
So it was cold and we gotknocked down a couple of times.

(09:52):
That was pretty terrifying.
But it was a strong boat, likewhat sort of what?

Speaker 2 (09:57):
size boat we're talking about.
It was 53 feet, yeah, but stillthat's not huge when you're out
in those oceans it was funny.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Will's all about statistics, but I think he said
something like we're closer tothe space station than anyone
else on the planet.
Right now you feel veryvulnerable.
I think there are a couple oftimes there that I thought I've
had enough.
But I think you talk aboutresilience in owning a business
and what have you.
I think getting through thatwas important to do.

(10:27):
It's not like I could havestepped off anyway, so that was
an experience.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
But life's made of experiences, isn't it?
I think we get so caught up inliving lives and we don't.
We're always wanting to getsomewhere else that a lot of the
time, like we don't like.
You're probably getting moreout of that now, remembering
that experience and what youwent through and what you
thought were then.
At the time, you didn't, youtook it for granted.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
I agree with that.
I think that, um, a lot of the,the stress and anxiety that we
build up in ourselves isworrying about things that we
don't have a want.
Yeah, that haven't happened yet.
That haven't happened yet andand you just, um, you know, um
have to have to appreciate nothaving much and and being happy
in that state.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, anyway, we certainly went down a rabbit
hole there, no, but I think it's, I really get a lot out of and
I'm I hope I think the listenerswill as well like you've got a,
I think building like or tradelike trade.
The construction industry is sorelatable to so many different
things and, like you just said,like it's, it's building
resilience, just like running abuilding business or a carpentry
business or whatever it is.
But yeah, it's funny, I I dothink we have to slow down to go

(11:33):
forward.
Like we get so caught up inlife and things that we, we
don't.
Uh, it's something I'm veryconscious of now.
Like even just only a few weeksago, I finished, um, a charity
rally, um, with one of my mateswe got an old vr commodore,
which the box, well, it makes mefeel old because the car was 30
years old and when I wasgrowing up and getting my
license, pretty standard if yourparents had a vr commodore,
like you were, that were doingwell, and now we paid two

(11:56):
thousand bucks for one and tookit, took it through the bush.
But like, just, I didn't thinkit at the time, like during the
rally I I actually thought I'll,um, I want to do more of these,
but I might try another, maybea variety bash or something next
time.
I thought this is just too fullon.
Like 6 30 breakfast, eighto'clock, driver's brief, 170
cars, nine, ten o'clock mostdays if you're, if you're the

(12:19):
back team, by the time you geton the road, 600k's on shit
roads.
Like there was teams thatweren't like breaking down
during the day and then notgetting into camp until 10, 11.
Like well, there was one nightwhere teams were rolling into
camp at one and two in themorning.
But like I've been back fromthat two weeks now and it was
unbelievable.
Like the people we met, thetimes we had, and even though
you're in a, an older cardriving on roads through the

(12:42):
middle of nowhere, theexperience was like it just gave
you time.
There was no reception for fivedays.
Like it just gave you time toreally sit and think, yeah, and
just to appreciate, like what.
Like, even if you like let's behonest even in aust, look.
Even if you like, let's behonest, even in Australia, even
if you have fucking $1,000, likewe're in the luckiest country
in the world and you can be orhave or do whatever you want.

(13:03):
But yeah, we'll get back toyour building.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
So then then three, three years of three nights a
week, post trade, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
And so did you subby, did you come back and go?

Speaker 1 (13:15):
subby the minute, actually the minute I got my
carpenter's licence, I quit myjob.
Yeah, there was no questionthat I had.
I went to boarding school so Iwas fiercely independent and
just felt, you know, like I hadto break the chains off and I
had no job to go to.
I put an ad in the manly dailylocal rag and got my first job

(13:37):
and um made a meal of it and Iremember the lady said oh, you
were the cheapest of 12 quotes.
And I just thought, oh well,this is the start of something
bad, and you know, but learntstuff, you know and I was I was
just enjoying the work.
Yeah, um, I think for 25 years Iwas probably flying by the seat
of my pants.
The only thing that kept megoing was the passion.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
That's what we all do , isn't it?
Yeah, we all get into it, forthe passion of being a plumber,
being a sparky, being a builder,and the stress of the business
takes over that passion veryquickly.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, I think we absolutely all.
We're all technicians to somedegree.
But what that leads us intowhen you become a business
person, you've got skills therethat you don't even know about.
That you need to know.
And that was me to a T.
I think there was certainly asort of boom bust for me style

(14:30):
of working.
You know, I wouldn't know howmuch money I'd made until the
accountant told me and all thissort of stuff, and there was a
complete ignorance and of whatyou know, I don't know how, I
just kept going renovatingpeople's homes and making them
more wealthy and paying for itin the end, yeah, um, but even
what you just said, then, likemost well, we all, we all rely
on someone else telling us howwell we're doing, like and like

(14:54):
knowing what I know.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Now it's absolutely crazy.
But look, you literally putyour heart and soul into what
you do and then you don'tunderstand the business side of
things.
So you completely rely onwhatever you're doing
three-month check-ups, I knowlike back in the day I was doing
it once a year and, like yourely on that one meeting a year
for someone to sit in front ofyou and go, oh, you rely on that
one meeting a year for someoneto sit in front of you and go,
oh, here's all your numbers,you've made a bit of money.

(15:16):
Why the fuck would we not bedoing these checks more often
and knowing our numbers?

Speaker 1 (15:22):
It was when the penny dropped for me.
I think it was about the timethat.
So I'd been through a couple ofrough patches and I look at and
this all translates in, as youwell know, to unhappy family
life and this all translates in,as you well know, to unhappy
family life.
I thought my solution to all myproblems was to work longer and
harder.
So that meant that I was lesspresent and I'll go into.

(15:43):
The end result of that hasultimately been the breakdown of
my marriage.
There's obviously othercontributing things, but it
certainly hasn't helped.
And you know it's hard to notfeel accountable and guilty
about all of that.
But I had my business partner,now Jono.
He gave me a couple of jobswhen I was quiet.

(16:04):
He worked for a mid-tierconstruction company and that
got me out of a bind, you know.
And then he had somechallenging times himself Just,
I think that in that world theyget their pound of flesh from
you and he had very similar workethic to me and thought working
harder and longer was thesolution to everything.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
It's how we're brought up, isn't it?
That's right, it's how we'rebrought up.
Oh yeah, I'm sure you were toldgrowing up.
That's all.
My dad, my uncles, everyonedrummed into me, and even my
bosses.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, there wasn't a lot that my dad imparted onto me
, but that was certainly a lotof things, anyway.
So we've all been in thatposition where he knew he'd had
enough and there was telltalesigns of that.
I won't go into it.
But he rang me and said look,I've left this company and is
there any opportunity for me tocome and work for you?

(16:57):
And I didn't even hesitate.
I knew the calibre of person hewas.
Yeah, so how long ago is this?
That was 2015,.
Say, yeah, we'd also known eachother quite well through our
local surf club, so it wasn'tlike I didn't know him.
Him, we'd known each other for20 years at that point.
Yeah, um, so you know qualityhuman being and and anyway, he,

(17:18):
he started running a job for meand and very quickly could see
that, coming from thatcommercial background, had had
the skills that I didn't have,yeah, um, of how to project,
manage jobs and program them.
And you know, he just couldn'tbelieve the stuff that I was
putting up with Subby's notturning up, and that was okay.
As one example, really, nosystems and processes.

(17:42):
I tried my best, it wasn'tenough.
And then, I don't know, one dayhe sat me down over at coffee
and said look, how would youfeel about partnering and
starting a new venture?
And I went mate, that soundslike a bloody great idea because
I knew he had the skills Ididn't have.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, um that's the only way to make a partnership
work, isn't it?
You've got to have differentstrengths and weaknesses.
I think so.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I think so um, and so , yeah, we, we started with kurt
back then and, and, and, um,you know, spent a lot of time
and energy on marketing.
I was working out of the frontbedroom of our house and so what
?

Speaker 2 (18:14):
what drove you to do that?
Like I'm really interested onthis, yeah, and I try and dig
into it on podcasts and nobodyI've never had one person yet be
able to give me a clear answer,and I can't like it when people
ask me what was your turningpoint, like there's no one thing
.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
But look well for me, my, I didn't know how to be the
person I wanted to be, whichwas to build those big,
beautiful homes.
Like I was like bashing my headagainst the wall.
So you were chasing the job.
You weren't chasing the client,I was chasing my dream.
He was the mechanism that wasgoing to get me there because
all of a sudden, I go okay.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
So when you say he the coach, no, no, my business
partner.
Oh, your business partner.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, businesspartner yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
So I I had this vision of growing this business
and doing these big, beautiful,luxury architectural homes and I
just for life.
We didn't know how to get thereand so, having him, almost as
you suggested in our earlierchat about accountability
partners, it was like this iswhat we need to do, ox.
Like he actually came to mewith this um plan that he put
time into.
He said, right, we need this,we need to do this, we're going

(19:12):
to get out of your bedroom,we're going to get an office and
it's like bang, bang, bang,bang bang, I'm going to get a
business coach.
Um, and we just started thisjourney together and it was.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
It's been pretty cool , you know, like so sydney
beachhams only started 26, 12months before you were working
with kurt yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
So, um, we're both builders, you know, in our own
rights and, and he'd haddifferent experiences, but like
coming from that commercialworld where dog ate dog, and
they trained him, they coachedhim, he knew exactly what needed
to happen.
So that was really thespringboard.
And then I just it was exciting, you know, I remember buying

(19:49):
our office and signing thepaperwork, and then we were both
, we fitted out our own officespace, um, and I remember
sitting and we had these nice umdesks next to each other and
we're both sort of slitting inour chairs, twirling our thumbs.
What happens now, you know?
And and then the phone and ring, and then we get an opportunity
and then, okay, we need someone.
What's our first employee?
And I think it was, um, anoffice admin, um, and then we,

(20:12):
you know, worked, startedgetting more work and employing
more people, and that that wasall challenging and I knew that,
okay, this is starting to getreal and I need to educate
myself.
So I I started investing a lotof time into reading and
listening to podcasts and whathave you, and like, literally,
my I I know you got the big.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
I love the shirt, mate.
Peace, love cash flow.
You got the cardone shirt on.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Well, you know, most people know I'm a big fan of
grant well, he, I, I startedhoovering all this stuff up and,
as I suggested earlier, it wentto one of his seminars and it
cost of like having the courageand and a business partner would
who would support me on that umto invest that amount of money
in your own education.
I think that's a big stumblingblock for most builders and

(21:00):
contractors Not seeing the valuein it and thinking, god, that's
a lot of money, it's probably acon.
I used to tell myself that thishas got to be a con, surely.
And then you just get caught upin it.
You think it's a con.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
I've talked about this a little bit recently.
Like you think it's a conbecause you hear them telling
you things and you think toyourself it can't be that easy.
But it actually is.
But the way the value is iswhen you sign up to a community
or a program or a coach or amentor, the value is the
community and accountability.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Accountability.
So exactly right.
If you invest money insomething, it means that you're
going to put the effort in, andit's funny how we put more value
in material things that wehaven't got and we save up for
that, like a car or a motorbikeor a boat, I think.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
I figured this out recently, man, I believe and
this is across everybody this isnothing, not just our industry.
Yeah, we all chase the shinyobjects, yeah, and so I feel
like like tradies, like you'llbuy the new tool that gives you
a dopamine hit.
Yeah, it's.
It's very, very easy these daysto get finance, so you'll
you'll buy the big 40 thousanddollar tool trailer or you'll

(22:06):
buy the jet ski or the motorbike, or like you don't see any
tradies now driving around in anew dual cab that's older than
10 years and you get thatinstant gratification.
You get the item, you get thedopamine hit and you feel
fantastic.
But then when you invest inyourself, whether it's personal
development or businessdevelopment, you get stuck in

(22:27):
and you start to see results andyou get that dopamine hit, but
then you learn that to keep thebusiness successful, you have to
keep working on it, whereas allthese other things you get and
it's there, you get.
You buy the new dual cab, it'sthere every day, you sit in it.
You, you feel proud, you showoff like look at me, I'm in my
big jacked up truck.

(22:47):
But when a lot of people realizethat, like three months in,
they've implemented things,they've had success, they've
turned the business around andthen they realize shit, this is
actually ongoing.
I need to keep doing this, somany people back off.
And because the shiny objectstarts to become dull, because
they realize it's not somethingthat's instant, like personal
development, businessdevelopment never stops.
Like it's something you got tokeep doing, like I'll never stop

(23:09):
till the day I die.
I believe I'm addicted to it,but that's because I see the
results from the more effort Iput in, the more money I spend,
the more time I spend.
Everything flourishes mybusiness, my relationships, my
kids.
So, yeah, it's funny how theworld works, but, like you just
said, we all think it's a con,but it's not.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, it was kind of.
Some of them are.
They're probably some cons outthere.
Well, look, I felt embarrassed,to be honest, that it took me
that long.
I probably had mostly my wife,you know, in my ear about it,
about getting help or the amountof money you're spending on it.
No, just she would have to havebeen one of my biggest mentors.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
you know, self-aware and emotionally intelligent we
need to listen to women morethey have the answers.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
I mean yeah, yeah, so , yeah, anyway, the business
kind of got bigger and probablyit was only 18 months into it.
We needed to get a biggeroffice.
We got an incredibleopportunity to build a beautiful
home out at Whale Beach andwe're just pinching ourselves
that we're doing jobs of thatstature and very architectural

(24:26):
Look.
They presented challenges andwe were up for it.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
What sort of dollar they?
I know you've done some bigjobs.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, look, you're sort of getting up to the 6
million plus and you know, andabove, I guess, at some point.
Well, I tell you, what wasn'ton the business plan was was
COVID.
We had a couple of big jobsrunning and that that time I
remember when, when, you know,no one knew what was going on in

(24:55):
the world uh, it was a lot ofnervous energy being expended at
that time and I remember havingcrisis meetings with jono in
the office about how we're goingto manage it all.
And I have to say thegovernment did handle it very
well, um, to get everyonethrough.
Um, it was like it was.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
It was a very nervous time there for a little while,
like that.
So, cave, it happened.
Uh, literally two months afterI signed up to one of grant's
personal programs and I was likeme, we've just invested a
shitload of money did that.
Keep going though yeah, it keptgoing.
But, mate, he, he, like, sothey, the states, had already

(25:33):
started like was bad and likeAustralia didn't really start
shutting down and talking aboutthe way it was going to go for a
couple of months Because we sowe'd been to Vegas, we went to
the 10X Growth Conference, thenwe went and visited, did some
business stuff, and then we wentto San Francisco for two weeks
and while we were there it wasall starting to happen.

(25:54):
And then we come back toaustralia and, um, literally
within two months of coming back, it had started affecting
people.
Like, I think the day we landedin australia, australia had its
first case and then it, justover two months, it just started
ramping up and so we justinvested a shitload of money
with Grant Cardone and we were.

(26:19):
So the week I think it was aFriday the Friday they announced
in Australia that they weregoing to be shutting all open
homes, they were going to beputting all these strict
restrictions on job sites wasthe exact same day that we were
doing our final cleaning on ourpersonal development units, that
we were doing our finalcleaning on our personal
development units that we'd justdone, and they were having
their first open home on thatsaturday.

(26:40):
So we had all this privatelending um and we'd invested all
this money in grant and I was.
I had a few moments I was likeholy fuck, yeah, like we we
cannot cash flow this businessfor more than a few months if,
if they do this and the um, thething that got me through covid
mate was grant was doing theseemergency like zooms and like so

(27:03):
he was good, wasn't it?
yeah, and like so this groupthat we're in, he um, he
basically like the group, gotsent an email and he's like I
will give you everything youneed to get through.
Covid and I was jumping onzooms because, like obviously
American time at 1 and 2 in themorning for 3 and 4 and 5 hours
and just hearing like he wouldjust GS up.
Yeah, like you have to expectthe unexpected.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
He was very vocal, wasn't he?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (27:25):
And I just listened to him, mate and I implemented
it and we didn't get through itunscathed, like gave, like we.
We lost a lot of money, which Iknow you did as well.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
but we definitely got through it.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
I believe we we're where we are now because of like
, it wasn't just him, I wasdoing some other coaching at the
time as well, but I just tookeverything they said on board
and just fucking right.
Oh, like, if this is going tohappen, then it ain't going to
fail because of my efforts.
Like, I'm going to do whateverI can yeah, it's good.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Um, and look on straight after things started
opening up in Sydney, there wasstill lockdown LGAs where you
couldn't get contractors and itjust meant programs blew out and
your profit was just gone andmaterial price increases.
And I remember down locally youcould only buy three sticks of
timber a day, like it was.
We literally had our labour inthe truck just going around all

(28:10):
the timber yards picking upsticks of LVLs and stuff.
You know it was a debacle.
Yeah, on top of that we had thewettest year in Sydney's
history, which was diabolical,you know, and you just sort of
had to roll with it.
But I guess where I was goingwith all of that was you kind of

(28:31):
weathered the storm and youlearn a bit more about yourself
during those times.
There's no question thatchallenges I feel are growth
opportunities and, you know,worrying about your team and
their mental health and whathave you.
And I guess you know that was alittle while ago now, but I
think then you know there was achange of government and then
what tends to be the case frommy experience is that with a

(28:53):
change of government you get awhole lot of different policy
changes and it seems to me that,um, the current government seem
to think that that the employerpays for everything, um, and
you know, um, there's a wholeclosing loophole stuff.
But anyway, it kind of justadds extra challenges to running
a business, yeah, and managingemployee expectations, and so

(29:17):
the company was just sort ofgetting by but not doing great.
I think growth is a cost.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
So when is this?
Like I know you had a periodthere where you, like we've
spoken that you really knuckledin on your overheads.
Is that?
Was that around this time?

Speaker 1 (29:32):
No, look it's's sort of.
Probably a year ago there was.
I would say there would be 17.
You know, maybe june last year,17 in the team and yeah, um,
I'm jumping the gun a bit youknow that's okay, it's, it's all
you know, relevant.
I think you know doing thosebig homes, uh, I, I've come to
believe that there's a bit ofego in that, probably a lot of

(29:54):
ego in that, a lot of ego, mate.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
I did the same thing.
Yeah, the first 10 years of mybusiness I chased the jobs
instead of finding my dearclient.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah.
So you know, what we've beendoing in recent times is meeting
the drop in demand andcertainly, you know, the news
was, you know it was all aboutbuilders, insolvencies and and,
look, you know, I sympath,sympathize with a lot of those
companies that were were onfixed contracts during that

(30:24):
tough time and and it was no,you know, wonder that they, they
came unstuck.
What I will say is um, you know, jo, and I have sort of worked
through that and as a businessowner, I don't believe that
there's complete unawarenessthat you're heading in that
direction.
It doesn't just happen.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, and to get to but up until that, like COVID,
was a massive wake up call aswell, because there was so many
people in our industry likesuppliers, builders, tradies
that would just head down, bumup, chasing the next job and
just completely relying onturnover.
And turnover means nothing ifyou're not making money, and
COVID really highlighted how somany businesses trade insolvent

(31:05):
and just don't understand theirrunning cost.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Steve Trang.
Yeah, yeah, the home warrantyscheme in this state is in a
pretty poor state as well.
Like, um, you know I'm membersof both hia and nba and and you
know I've sort of feel like Idon't know why we all have to
endure something that's broken.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Um, it's kind of you're at the well, we don't.
We need to run our own racelike we need to.
That's what that's what allthis is about like people
breaking the old fashioned waysthe industry operates and it's
happening Like we have throughLive Like Builders and the
podcast, like we have thousandsof builders and traders now that
are putting time, energy andmoney into themselves.

(31:46):
It is good mate.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, you're doing a great job there, I think.
I think, just going back to theeducation that we probably had
in the government's wisdom oftrying to get more builders on
paper, fast-trackingqualifications, I see as a
massive issue.
It's huge and it's frustratingbeing in it, that bureaucrats
have kind of created thisproblem for everyone.

(32:07):
There's no accountability atthat level, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Sorry, just about in there on that John, at that
level, that's for sure.
Um, so just about in there onthat john, like, oh, this is
something I'm really passionateabout and I definitely stir
people up when I say this, butthere is a very big difference
between a blue like a tradieworker and and, uh, like someone
that sits in and like has somesort of office job or there's a
lot like uni degree and thosetypes of things and like I
firmly believe I don't care howlong people want to argue with

(32:33):
me like if you don't understand,like we think very differently,
we learn very differently, wereact, we respond Like we are
very different and we interpretthings very differently.
And I think because a lot ofthe people that are making these
decisions and these calls andthese legislations haven't been
in our industry, haven't workedin it, haven't like don't

(32:54):
understand it, they don'tunderstand how different we are.
And so, like it's, it's not anindustry where you can throw
people at it and they can pickit up easily.
Like you would know, like you doyour four years training you,
you don't know a quarter of whatyou need to learn, whereas, and
like, what I'm getting at islike I feel with a lot of the
other side of things, I don'tknow how, like sitting in an

(33:18):
office or doing an office typejob, is a very different
learning environment.
You can sit beside people atdesks, you can share computer
screens, you can give examples,so a lot of it's like numbers
writing, those types of things.
You can't do that on site.
On site you physically have todo things and cut timber and

(33:39):
measure.
I don't know.
I just feel they don'tunderstand the difference.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Well, spending one day in the private sector would
be a good start.
I don't think they have thatexperience, but I agree with
what you say there, inparticular, builders I'm talking
about right now.
There is an incredible array ofthings you need to be across,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
I guess, to wrap that up, what I'm probably trying to
get at is you can't learn whata tradie or a builder does by
reading a textbook Like youcan't.
I don't care how many timesyou've read it like you, just
you can't.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah, I don't care how many times you've read it
like you.
Just you can't.
Yeah, it, it, it.
I do get the sense thateveryone's in a hurry these days
and they're missing the pointbecause, to be a craftsman, at
the top of your game, it's, it'stime, and you know a lot of my
mate's sons are coming to theage where they're leaving school
and what have you and ask usyou know what our advice would

(34:33):
be and John and I feel the sameway about this that why don't
you just finish what you startedat school, like you can do
these pre-apprenticeship courseswhere you're doing school,
you're doing TAFE and you're onsite as well, and I just don't
see that anyone's a winner there.
I understand it yeah, that youknow, trying to encourage people
to get a trade.

(34:54):
It just seems to me that you'restarting leaving year 10 or
whatever.
I just think that extra coupleof years of maturity at school.
Finish that, do the best youcan.
It doesn't matter if you passor fail, just do the time and
then move on to the next thing.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, you've got to have one or the other.
You can't be.
Yeah, I agree, I don't know ifthey do it down here in
queensland, I know, sorry, newsouth wales, I know at home they
, um, there's some private tradeskills now where, like you do
your 11 and 12, like you getyour your english, your maths
and those types of things, butyou're, you're there to learn
how to be a tradie.
I think that has legs andthat's just that.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
The you know shortening of all the
qualifications.
I mean it's even with theamount of time that I spent back
then.
The three years post trade,three nights a week was a big
graft, but still, like yousuggested, it's a fraction of
what you need to know.
Yeah, and there is this like,uh, as you, once you get your
qualification, you know you'rehigh-fiving and you think that

(35:54):
that's it, and that was probablyme for a lot of years, um,
learning on the job and notseeing the value in, in, in
putting that extra time into.
You know, the continuingprofessional development, which
is a joke in its own right,because no one's ever checked
whether I do continuedprofessional development cbd
points should be compulsory.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
Compulsory, do you?

Speaker 1 (36:14):
have them down here?
We do, but you've just got tosign it when you reapply for
your licence.
That you've done it.
No one checks it.
It's just a box-tickingexercise, right?
So I'm very encouraged by thenumber of younger builders
coming to those MBA events thatwe hold monthly.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
It's huge mate.
I feel it's really excitingtimes.
We just finished we call it alaunch with Live Life Build two
days ago, and it really so.
The last two launches we'vedone really big numbers, but
last time it excited me, butthis time it's just off the
charts because I think we've gotover three dozen people that

(36:52):
have come in Like there's bignumbers all up.
I think we've got over threedozen um people that have come
in like there's big numbers allup, but we've got over three
dozen young.
So we've got three, three dozenodd people that are either
carpenters, supervisors,currently doing their builder's
license or just got it.
And the reason I'm so excitedabout that is because these guys
are taking the initiative tolearn the business side of a
building business before they'veeven really put their foot in

(37:14):
the door.
And I just think, man, like ifyou put in the effort now and
you get all your documents, allyour systems and processes in
place in your head, you youunderstand what you need to do.
Not only are you going to runan incredible business, you
touched on it before, you'regoing to have a lot better home
life.
Because, let's face it, likehow many businesses in the
building industry, the businesstakes over the relationship and

(37:37):
you're going to have afinancially stable future Like
it blows my mind.
I just want to run up and givethem all hugs.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Good on you.
Yeah, it's funny.
I think back and I just wishsomeone had covered me and taken
me under their wing.
I guess you've got to be opento it, but would you have taken
it?

Speaker 2 (37:56):
yeah, well, I don't know about that, but um, because
that's the people ask me allthe time yeah like now it's easy
to say you've got to be you've

Speaker 1 (38:02):
got to be in the right frame of mind and I'm just
obviously slow on the uptake,but my, my elder brother's a
maths professor professor, so Ithink I've got the shallow end
of the gene pool.
But yeah, I think you know I'mhere now and you know.
One of the things I wanted totouch on with you, if it's okay,
Duane, is that in the processof, you know, hoovering up heaps

(38:24):
of books, I think I was goingthrough 40 books a year and just
couldn't get enough reallylearning about myself and it
kind of frightened me because I,everything I read, I thought,
shit, there's so much more Ineed to know, Um.
But part of that, what thatallowed me to do, was to try and
help the team and put some timeand energy into into them and
growing the business the rightway and nurturing clients and

(38:45):
the whole bit.
Um.
And we had we had a couple ofmental health, you know
challenges in the team Um.
And then you know, I, the teamum, and then you know I was
having, I was having some somemarital challenges myself and
probably about this time lastyear I, I started getting these
dark thoughts, you know, and Iand I, I know enough about it.
I actually did a mental firstaid course with the nba just to

(39:09):
give me a little bit moreunderstanding of it if it
happened to one of our team.
And all of a sudden this bloodyblack dog turned up at my
doorstep and I was.
It knocked me for six.
I thought shit, um, how didthat happen?
so is it this all snuck upthrough, all obviously dealing
with COVID, and yeah, look it'sa couple years of that like look
, I think, uh, you know I Ican't put my finger on exactly

(39:32):
the issues I think um know whatI've got to learn through a
number of counselling sessionswas that how we're made up is a
result of how we were brought up100%.
And boarding school at 12 didn'thelp, because I didn't.
I lost my you know, primaryfemale influence in my mother.

(39:56):
And the other thing was that Iremember I was very distinct
about look, I'm not keen ongoing to boarding school, and my
mother and father said look,it's okay, you just try it.
If you don't like it, you cancome home.
I said, okay, that's fairenough, and I reckon, not every
night, but a lot of nights aweek, I'd ring them in tears
saying, look, I'm done.

(40:16):
And it just fell on deaf earsand so I, I just um went, okay,
I've got to deal with thismyself.
Um, so I grew apart from my mumand dad pretty quickly and they
you know, which was a bit sadreally um.
I I'm, you know, I've got mykids and I can't understand how
they could easily dismiss melike that.

(40:36):
But so I think that sort ofcarried through into my marriage
those challenges incommunication, just because I
was shut down.
I literally had the emotionalintelligence of a 12-year-old
for most of my life.
Life, I think, yeah, in termsof dealing with females and in
relationships and stuff.
So, um, that was all veryinteresting, um, in hindsight I

(40:59):
suppose, um, and anyway, so I,yeah, I just had to I think I
had the, the foresight when thathappened to lean on some mates
and get some help went to my gp.
Um, jono was incredible.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
I'm trying to get emotional about it, but you know
, I appreciate you talking aboutit, mate, because I think this
happens in every single personin our industry.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, like it has to be spoken about yeah, so that
kind of crept up on me and youknow, jono was amazing as a
friend and a business partnerand you know, in supporting me
through that um and yeah so this, there was a combination of
things and and um, there was the, the marriage broke down and so
I'm I'm separated now, and andthen the business uh downturn

(41:45):
and then old man decided he'dpass away.
That was a couple of months ago, so even though I wasn't close
to him, it was still asignificant life event.
And I remember being in hisbedside, um, in the nursing home
and he wasn't in good shape.
I could tell he was on the wayout and I think they called the
death shakes or whatever, and hewas trying to talk to me and he

(42:06):
couldn't, um, and we're bothfrustrated about that and you
know, because I was interestedto see what he had to say at
that final moment.
But what I was most saddened bywith that event was the, the
life that I didn't get to havewith him, you know, and I kind
of brought that to a head, um,but anyway that I think you know
where am I going with all that.
I just think that if I'mcompletely honest with you, um,

(42:29):
I'm completely at peace witheverything that's happened.
Um, I'm I feel like, uh, I'vebeen doing a lot of reading of
the stoics and um stumbledacross that in a book and
thought why the hell isn't thisstuff not taught at school?

Speaker 2 (42:42):
oh it's.
It's incredible the way they dothings and think about things
and and um, yeah, so uh so whatgot you through that mate, like
what, like that's, it's like youobviously got good people
around you, but like you've gotto make some decisions, it's
mindset.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
You talk about mindset.
A lot Things happen because ofyou, and if you're unhappy and
you don't do anything about it,you're going to remain unhappy.
So I had to make some prettybig decisions in my life, which,
you know, wasn't something Iplanned for.
But here I am, different stageof my life, and it actually came

(43:19):
down to self-care in the end.
I think part of the darkthoughts I was having was a
result of all the guilt.
And how have I stuffed this up,you know, and men, to get, get
beyond that, because ultimatelyit comes down to to you, you
personally, and I.
I got to the point where, um,you know and I'm sure my kids

(43:40):
won't hate me for this but Ididn't give a fuck about anyone
but myself.
Um, they know, I love them todeath and um, but I, literally
it was self-preservation at thatpoint but as selfish as that
sounds like, you have to be likethat because you can't like.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
You cannot be the best person you can be for your
family and the people around youif you're not.
Oh 100 like I.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
I knew that that wasn't a solution to the problem
, that you take that off thetable, because I've had.
We've had it happen in thefamily, we've had it happen in
the community, and you know youmight have read this passage in
a book by someone and it said ifyou are considering suicide,
consider that you've got a whatdo you call it?
A vest on like a what do youcall them?

(44:22):
A bomb?
A bomb, and you get yourhundred of your closest friends
and family in the room and thendetonate it.
Because that's what you'redoing.
You're having an effect, aripple effect, on everyone else
around you, and it's a realshame that it's a spontaneous
thing to do and it can beavoided.
There's plenty of people outthere that can help you, and one

(44:43):
of the most remarkable things Ilearned in that course I did
was it's okay to ask someone areyou thinking about killing
yourself?

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, well, it's actually Are you Okay Day today.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Is it really?
As we're recording this podcastbut um, there you go, yeah, I'm
okay, yeah, I'm gonna I'mgiving you a big hug as soon as
we stand up.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
But, um, I guess for people listening like this, this
is a very um hard subject andif you are having trouble, like
there is a lot of people thatthey're like, that's like tx
boys, the guys from train mightdo an incredible job um lifeline
all those things.
So make sure you do reach outfor help.
But it's man, I got goosebumpsyeah bloody tearing up just
hearing your story.
but the um, it's amazing howmuch like I talk about this a

(45:24):
bit because I I want everybodyto work on it because it is
incredible how much we let theway we're brought up affect and
control the rest of our lives.
And I've said it a lot, Ifirmly believe there'd be 99.9%
of people on this planet thatjust are not living their own
life.
They're stuck with trauma andthoughts and beliefs and just

(45:45):
shit from experiences and peoplethat they've been associated
with growing up.
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
And one of the things that the philosophers 2,000
years ago would say is that theone thing that is in your
control is your thoughts andmind, and it's said that not
even your body.
You don't really have a controlover your body.
You can get sick, you can getcancer and it happens right.
So that's quite powerful.

(46:14):
That it's call it indifference.
Um, that if you allow things toto upset you when you get
stressed about it, well, that's,that's your choice.
Yeah, you know that there's.
That's massive if you can flickthat switch and and think that
whatever happens to you, it'snot you know.
Nothing happens to you.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Everything happens because you know it's oh grant's
saying yeah, nothing happens toyou, everything happens because
you like.
That has stuck with me from thefirst time I heard it and I do.
You think people, like so manypeople I think, think they are
taking responsibility andownership, but they're not like
they might be taking ownershipof one little piece over here,
but there's 10 other pieces overhere that they they're blaming
everybody else for.
Like I'd like, I like that youtouched on, um your kids there,

(46:54):
like they, like I, just knowingwhat I know now like my girls
are 11 and 13 just, but one'sabout 10, 14, um I, and we're
just letting them do what theywant to do, like we want them to
, to just be themselves, likewe're not forcing anything on
them at all.
Um, because I've, like justthrough the breath, work and the

(47:15):
bloody kinesiology, and there'sno weird shit that I have a
crack at now, like it'sincredible, the shit that I've
hung on to, that I just don't,and that, that shit that we're
holding on to is is what'sgiving us back pain or leg pain
or like trauma in our bodies or,um sickness.
So the quicker we can get ridof stuff like that and be more
open to talking about andsharing these experiences, the

(47:36):
better for everybody.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Well, it's interesting.
I think one of the benefits ofwhat you're doing, and what's
probably helped get me through,is being of service, heavily
involved in the surf club butalso happy to impart experiences
onto younger builders like I.
Feel like that that's real,creates real purpose.

(47:59):
Yeah, and if you're feelingsorry for yourself, but just an
act of kindness, like somethingquite simple, yeah, um is enough
to you know, to turn that, turnthe corner and and feel a bit
more upbeat about the day andyou know yeah, you're saying
yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Like when John walked in today, I felt embarrassed
because he's 11 years older thanme and looks like 10 years
younger.
You're looking incredible.
You were saying that fitnesshas played a huge role in
getting you through all thisstuff.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Yeah, so I rode surf boats for a long time and I
think movement is incrediblyimportant and it's funny, um,
you know the whole compoundingeffect of just daily habits and
it's something that I've notever let go, um, but one of the
one of the things that that jonoand I have shared together is
the surf boat rowing and you getyour, your mates, in a boat and

(48:47):
it's pretty cool that you'repushing your body to the extreme
, um, that you can share thoseexperiences and it's more about
mateship than the competitionside of it.
Yeah, the camaraderie in thesurf club's incredible.
It's like an extended familyfor me and my kids went up
through nippers and what haveyou, but a lot of older, wiser

(49:08):
souls in that club that are likesurrogate fathers.
I didn't really have that, so,and my son and my daughter,
cameron, haven't had, you know,a grandfather, yeah, so that's
allowed them to have a bit ofthat.
You know, in the surf club Ifeel you've got older people
nurturing the younger people,yeah, and I feel like I'm kind
of there now all of a sudden.

(49:29):
It's happened very quickly, butbecoming an older member of the
club and, um, it's nice to beinvolved and help and, you know
be part of the community in thatway and is that so?

Speaker 2 (49:39):
is that what's kept you?
Is that the fitness you do islike the training to be able to
do that and get more involvedwith that?

Speaker 1 (49:44):
yeah, look, I just like the idea of being able to
do anything I want physically,whether it's surfing or rowing
or running or swimming or youknow um and that'll pay
dividends in the future.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
I hope 100, you know.
Uh, that's the plan we've gotto keep active.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Hey, yeah, um, you know I've got a lot, a lot of
mates I went to school with umwho haven't kept up with you
know, and I worry about thatbecause it's you only get one
life and, um, it needs to be agood one.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So, mate, we're to like we'llstart to wrap it up a bit, but,
like you've been through a lotin the last three or four years,
what's happening now?

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Look.
So we're just simplified things.
I'm back on the tools.
I touched on that before thepodcast, which I actually love
doing that.
You, you know, peeling it backto basics, that is actually my
passion.
So john is running the business.
He, he's, he's been workinghard, um, you know, with all the

(50:43):
things that you need to do todownsize, um, making sure that
that we've still got jobs comingthrough the door and um, and
like it's kind of evolving againinto whatever it'll be, um, but
I think the experiences thatwe've had, there's no regrets
there.
We're very proud of what weachieved and, um, you know,
you're leaving a real legacythere of of a home that you've

(51:05):
built.
That's um, you know the familyare happy to live in it and you
know, with the outcome, so, yeah, I, so yeah, I think we've
peeled it back to basics feellike we can still deliver great
service and quality because yeah, so without all the added
stresses that have gone into thelast six years or eight years
you know um size and turnovermean absolutely nothing, don't

(51:26):
they?
not really.
No, um, it's quality of lifeand, um, making sure, like you
talk about what gets you out ofbed, and you know I get out of
bed because I love what I do andI'm excited about what the day
brings, and can I leave it in abetter place that I've left it
the day before, sort of thing.
So, just being very consciousof my interactions with people

(51:48):
and how I treat people and speakto them, and you know, you
don't know what's going on inpeople's lives If you get a
contractor that's a to them.
And you know you don't knowwhat's going on in people's
lives If you get a contractorthat's a bit off one day, you
know, rather than get the shitsabout it, have a conversation
with him.
And you know men are prettyhopeless with communication.
You know, when you say G'daymate, how you going, yeah, good,
good, you know, like it's justa default thing.

(52:14):
I was grabbing a coffee a littlewhile ago, local coffee shop,
and this guy I know of I've seenhim around a bit but we're not
close, you know but he came upto me he said can I give you a
hug?
And I said absolutely.
And he started crying and hegoes my dog died and I've had a
shit time with the missus and Isaid that's all good.
You know like it's pretty coolwhen you can be that vulnerable
and you don't feel worse for it,that's for sure.
Sure, yeah, you know.
So I'm big on hugging mates.

(52:34):
You know.
I don't care if they feeluncomfortable about it.
I think it's pretty cool thatblokes can have a close
relationship like that.
And, you know, having a handfulof people that you know you can
talk to about anything has beenhelpful as well.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Yeah, unreal mate.
So, just to wrap it up, whatadvice for people out there
listening, maybe people that aregoing through some tough times
and thinking about throwing thetowel in when it comes to their
trade or building business, likewhat advice have you got?
Look, I think at grassrootslevel.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Don't feel like, don't be too proud to put your
hand up.
I mean, in Surf Life Saving, alot of blokes drown in the water
because they don't put theirhand up, because they're too
proud to admit that they're infucking trouble, right.
So don't think that you're afailure.
In fact, it takes a lot morecourage to put your hand up or
make the phone call and asksomeone.
I am really delighted with thenumber of younger builders

(53:27):
coming through, the masterbuilders locally who take the
time out of their week withtheir young families to come and
educate themselves.
And here's some old dogs tellsome stories that may or may not
save them some money or aheadache.
Like you're not alone.
You're not alone and I lovethat's what you're doing is
you're just putting it out therebig time.

(53:47):
And yeah, I'm proud of whatyou've done, mate, and it's been
a really good friendship, so Ihope we can keep going with it.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Yeah, no, definitely mate.
Definitely it'll only getstronger, but mate really
appreciate your time andappreciate your vulnerability
and sharing your story and yourjourney.
Yeah, absolute pleasure and I'mreally looking forward to
tonight.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Sounds good.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
Appreciate it.
Yeah, look, thanks guys forlistening.
Remember, we've got the newwebsite.
Now go and check out our merch,get on board, because we want
everyone in australia wearinglevel up.
It's got um, keep smashing itout on the back because that's
what we're doing.
We're putting this podcast outthere to share these types of
stories and just help people inthis industry realize that
there's always a better way todo things.

(54:28):
So, um, look forward to seeingyou on the next one.
Like subscribe and uh, yeah,have a great day.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
are you ready to build smarter, live better and
enjoy life?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
then head over to live like buildcom forward,
slash, elevate to get startedeverything discussed during the
level up podcast with me, duanepierce, is based solely on my
own personal experiences andthose experiences of my guests.

(54:59):
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.