I Won the Lotto: Spending the Day with Duayne is Life Changing.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I found your podcast only a few months ago when I
found that I just startedlistening to it non-stop.
Since then, in the car it'sbeen on.
And then in one of yourpodcasts, your early days, you
said you put out the challenge.
You said if anyone wants tocome on the podcast, you're
you're welcome to, but you justhave to sit in the seat.
It was a bit of a challengethat and I thought like I don't

(00:20):
really want to do that, but Ithought that was like a lottery
ticket right there.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
The fact that you're treating this experience like
you've won a lottery ticket, Ibelieve is going to end up being
better than you winning thelottery.
Again, I take my hat off toanybody that reaches out and
looks for help early on, becauseit means that you're going to
set yourself up for success andyou're going to avoid a lot of
the headaches that a lot ofbusiness owners have.

(00:46):
G'day guys.
Welcome back to another episodeof Level Up.
We have another crackingepisode for you today.
This one is a little bitdifferent than normal because
the guest I have on today hasactually reached out and he's
actually been driving aroundvisiting some of our job sites

(01:07):
with me today and also sittingin the office seeing a little
bit of what goes on behind thescenes.
So it's been really good.
I've really enjoyed it and Ithink you're going to get a lot
out of this podcast, because theguest we have with us today,
mitch, is doing good things andhe's hit the ground running.
He's been building for 18months and, uh, you're on a

(01:27):
mission, mate, you want to learn.
Yeah, that's it on the missionto learn.
So, um, mate, tell us a littlebit about yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
You're, um, you've been in business for 18 months
yeah, sure, so, um, I've been inbusiness for about five and a
half years.
I started as a carpenter andthen transitioned into a builder
18 months ago, you're not veryold.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
So again, I take my hat off to anybody that reaches
out and looks for help early on,because it means that you're
going to set yourself up forsuccess and you're going to
avoid a lot of the headachesthat a lot of business owners
have.
So what?
What's your drive like?
What made you do that?

Speaker 1 (02:12):
um, you in one of your older.
So I found your podcast only afew months ago, um, and I, when
I found that, I just startedlistening to it, gone, stopped
since then in the car.
It's been on.
And then in one of yourpodcasts, your early days, you
said you put out the challenge.
You said if anyone wants tocome on the podcast you're

(02:33):
welcome to, but you just have tosit in the seat.
It was a bit of a challenge andI thought, oh, like I don't
really want to do that.
But I thought that was like alottery ticket right there, like
knowing that because what I'dstarted doing started this
building company.
It was incredibly hard and youdon't really you don't have any
guidance or anyone to help you.
And so I saw someone therewho's running a successful

(02:57):
business and I thought that'slike an awesome opportunity.
How could I give that up?
And I've got to sit here and dothe podcast, which I'm not that
comfortable about.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
but I'm really here for the, the coaching, the
advice, yeah the learningexperience and you, um, I think
it's amazing, mate, that you'vedone it, even though you're
uncomfortable about it, because,uh, life is all about getting
comfortable.
Being uncomfortable, uh, and Ithink the more you can get used
to that, the more success you'regoing to have.
But, um, the fact that you'retreating this experience like

(03:27):
you've won a lottery ticket, I,I believe, is going to end up
being better than you winningthe lottery like you've, um,
you've spent a half a day today.
You've been to a couple of myjob sites.
You've seen how I interact withthe team, um, you've seen what
goes on.
You've you've been taking notes, you've been asking questions,
um, but that information, thatand the knowledge that you're

(03:49):
going to gain if you go andimplement it, will earn you much
more than what a lottery ticketwill get you.
Um, so, yeah, I really take myhat off to you, mate, for doing
that.
And I guess, to give everybody alittle bit of a background, is
this our third attempt?
Yeah, so, um, we've had a fewgoes at organizing this.
The first time we were supposedto do it, I got double booked.

(04:11):
I had a conference I had to beat, and then the second time was
when Cyclone Alfred come and wehad no power, we had to can
everything.
So yeah, mitch has made his wayup.
You actually like what time didyou leave home this morning to
get here?
4.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
So yeah, Mitch has made his way up.
What time did you leave?

Speaker 2 (04:24):
home this morning to get here 4.30.
Yeah, so 4.30 off the airport,jumped on a plane, I picked you
up in Brizzy at 7 o'clock.
We headed off to a few jobsites.
We've done a lot today.
Mitch has said to me multipletimes this morning is this a
standard day?
And I've said to him it'sactually a bit of a quiet day,

(04:47):
it's good, it's, we're justcruising, it's uh, they're just
like.
I guess it shows you how muchyou can get done when things are
scheduled and organized andyou're like I'm sure you may
have picked up this morning,like most people around me, like
my supervisor, my wife in theoffice, like shay.
Everyone knows their role andwhat they're doing.
So that takes a lot of pressureoff me and allows me to to be
able to get as much shit as Iget done.
Mate, tell us a little bitabout like.

(05:08):
Where did you start Like?
Because being a builder wasn'tyour first option, from what
you've told me.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah.
So I finished school, didn'tyou know, 18 year old, didn't
really know what to do.
I kind of wanted to be either acop or maybe a DT teacher.
Thought I can't go be a copstraight away, I'd be this 18
year old kid trying to tellpeople what to do.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Sorry man, I might be too old.
What's a DT teacher?
Design and tech.
So it was like dick togs orsomething I've never heard of DT
teacher.
So what is it?
Digital design, design and tech, design and tech.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, righto, yeah, learn something new every day.
Yeah, it was like the onlyactual practical um class at
school, like it was like the,the kind of building one.
Yeah, um all right.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
So it's not teaching people how to wear dick dogs, no
, no not at all.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Um, yeah, and then.
So I actually did startteaching first.
Um ended up signing up to likea arts teaching degree and it
was like a lot of art, historyand stuff and I was like, yeah,
this is useless.
So six months later I changedto criminology to cause I was
like I'll study something firstand then I can go do policing

(06:20):
after that.
So criminology did that foralmost three years and then, uh,
came to the end of it and wasjust like this is this is not me
, like I can't.
I hate writing essays.
I just can't stand this wholelife.
Um, at the time I was livingwith my good mate who was doing
a carpentry apprenticeship.
So I left uni and we would comehome from our days and he would

(06:44):
like whinge about laboring andthe stuff that he was doing and
I was just like that soundsamazing, like I would love to do
that.
So, yeah, left uni and thenfound an apprenticeship and just
absolutely loved it.
So I remember our first day wehad just poured a driveway and I
was just sitting there in themud cleaning troughs.

(07:05):
Um, but I was absolutelyfrothing.
I had more joy than I had anyany day at uni.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
So after four or five years of learning and going to
uni and stuff you, you'refinding happiness in scraping
concrete off concrete yeah,that's it.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Um, yeah, and so the journey in carpentry and
building started there.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah um, and so what's the background?
So you like, I like to dig intothis, because I think so many
people think they should knowexactly what they want to do and
just hit the ground running.
But it really doesn't matterwhat, how long it takes.
I guess the the point is thatyou, you need to keep trying
things until you find somethingyou enjoy doing.
That you, you need to keeptrying things until you find
something you enjoy doing.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Otherwise, you're going to spend your whole life
whinging about it yeah, um, Iwent to a private school on
north shore of sydney, um, and Ithink doing a trade wasn't even
wasn't even an option for that,and I think that is generally a
lot of places, um, like, yeah,we don't really promote doing a

(08:07):
trade.
It's not really seen assomething that you can be
successful in, so it wasn't even.
You know, we're trying tofigure out what am I going to do
with my life.
That wasn't even an option,even though when I reflect now
on, like my childhood, it's likethis has always been in me.
It's like this is what I shouldhave done from the start.
In me it's like this is what Ishould have done from the start.

(08:29):
And, yeah, so finishing schooldid okay in the hsc.
Um had some options for uni.
Um didn't really like any ofthem, but just had to pick
something yeah, yeah and then,uh, so what you finished your?

Speaker 2 (08:40):
you did your carpentry apprenticeship, did
you just did.
You smash that out with thesame company.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
So I was 21 when I started that, so technically
mature age, even though I don'tsee how that's mature age.
But that also makes it harderto find a job because you cost
more.
But I did manage to find onewith an awesome builder, a small
company doing renovations uh,it was the dad was the builder

(09:08):
and two sons, um, doing thecarpentry work.
Um, they were incredible.
They, they.
I'm now listening to like yourpodcast and stuff.
You hear a lot about how itshould be done and all the
little tips and tricks ofcarpentry and you know, like,
like planting your arises andthings like that and that when I
listened to those podcasts I'mlike, oh, that's all the stuff

(09:29):
that they taught me.
So I thought this was just thenormal, this is the standard in
the industry.
I only lasted at that companyfor six months.
I didn't really know whathappened.
I got fired after six months.
I think it was because they hada super high standard which was
great to learn from.
But trying to keep up with themwas quite hard and, being very

(09:55):
fresh, I definitely couldn'tkeep up and I think it just
wasn't enough for them.
So I'm grateful for theexperience I had with them, but
then I ended up enough for them.
So I'm grateful for theexperience I had with them.
But then I ended up that was, Istarted that six months before I
started TAFE and then I startedTAFE, so literally I got let go
and then I met people and thenext day I had three job offers.

(10:15):
So it wasn't, it wasn't a bigdeal, yeah.
Then I got another job with aguy who, let's just say, was
probably where I am now.
I was six months ago, veryyoung and just like giving it a
crack, but had a lot to learn,wasn't running a very good
business.
It was just him and threeapprentices and then he was

(10:38):
doing things probably not quiteto scratch, I could tell, even
though I had very limitedexperience.
So after six months I startedsearching for another job and
then found one with a greatbuilder that then I stayed with
through to the end of myapprenticeship.
That was a really awesomeexperience as well.

(10:58):
He another small company again.
The dad was the builder who'dbeen building all his life and
then he had two sons that runthe jobs and um, really good
experience.
I got such a wide range ofexperience from like real big
architectural, like big off-formconcrete bunkers and um, and
then small kind of reno,carpentry based builds, um, and

(11:22):
then at the end of that my bossactually unfortunately passed
away.
He had a heart attack, he was abit of a smoker and yeah.
So that was right at the end ofmy apprenticeship he passed
away and then the eldest sontook over and, um, kind of
didn't have enough work for meto continue on, so he's like he
was happy to sign me off, but itdoesn't, didn't have work for

(11:43):
me to stick around.
So that just naturally meantthat I went out and just started
my own thing.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
So it's a big move to go from finishing an
apprenticeship to starting abusiness.
So you're obviously a verydriven person or you've got
goals you want to achieve.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, I think running my own business was kind of
just in my blood.
It's from my dad he's he runs abig, he's got an accounting
firm and runs a accountingcoaching business, um, and it's
always been in my blood.
I didn't really know what itwas until I started running
business, um, and even when Istarted my carpentry business I

(12:21):
wouldn't.
It was just, uh, self-employed.
It wasn't a business really, Iwas just contracting to builders
, yeah, and then it kind of keptgrowing.
I actually did that for aboutsix months before then I hired
an apprentice, or maybe it was ayear before I hired an
apprentice and then I hiredanother apprentice and then and
then I had like three and thenbut it's getting a bit, you know

(12:41):
, too many apprentices yeah,it's hard to manage and puts a
lot of pressure back on you.
Yeah, yeah, and then just kindof doing that, growing that for
a while.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
So just contracting to other builders, yeah, pretty
much Did very minimal of my work.
Yeah, but it's all buildingcharacter and building
experience.
Isn't it Like trialing and allthat Like how did you go?

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Were the builders you're working for, were they
giving you rates to work to?
Or were you pricing the worklike I was just hourly, so I was
just charging my hourly ratesand charge the boys out at an
hourly rate?
Yeah, yeah, very, I think,quite different to your
experience.
Potentially like it sounds likeyou created a big business
where, yeah, you're quoting forwork and stuff like that is very
much like there's a lot ofsmall builders that I knew and
they, you know, there's a laborshortage and I had all these

(13:31):
guys.
So, um, yeah, it was just likethey were just basically using
my guys as their guys and I wasjust making sure that they're
they're busy.
Yeah, um, yeah, whilst I waspredominantly working for one
builder and then I had a fewguys with me yeah, yeah, but you
but like it's a.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
It's a good thing for a builder to do that, I guess,
every now and then, becauseyou're there to take control of
your team.
So it takes a little bit ofpressure off him if you're
managing your team correctly.
But, um, so where?
What was a?
You obviously had the passionto continue and become a builder
, so were you doing your?
I assume you're doing yourstudy to become a builder.

(14:10):
At the same time you're growinga carpentry business.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yep, so as soon as I finished my carpentry, I just
did my builders at the same time.
Yeah, straight after did mybuilders, whilst I was then
subcontracting, but on my own.
I think I finished the builderscourse just as I signed on my
first apprentice.
So I kind of just yeah, didthat before, yeah, and then

(14:34):
Having a crack, yeah, just keptgoing with it.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
So what, what?
Yeah, what made you likeobviously you thought it was
winning a lottery ticket.
But what made you reach outLike do you have you had some
issues or problems in yourbusiness since?

Speaker 1 (14:47):
you started yep, so definitely so the transition
from a carpentry to a buildingcompany.
I thought, oh, you know, it'sjust taking on more work.
Rather than just managing myguys, I can manage everyone.
Um, and then you know you makemore.
So I thought you know, that'ssweet, let's just do that.
Um applied for my license,eventually got the license and

(15:10):
then could start taking onbigger and bigger jobs.
And then I think I've I've madeevery, every just mistake that
everyone makes.
And and um, yeah, just what are, what are some of the mistakes?
Just not understanding cashflow, not understanding how much
you need to actually put onyour jobs to make money, not

(15:31):
knowing your numbers, taking ontoo many staff before I've got
like the work to keep everyonebusy and actually making profit.
I think the biggest one is justnot knowing your numbers,
taking on debt without anyconsideration.
I think when it started I waslike, oh okay, you know, I've
got one apprentice.
I'm making like five bucks anhour off him.
Oh, cool, I can afford.
You know, I can afford a yardcost me that that covers that.

(15:54):
And then I got another staffmember and you're making another
bit.
You're like, oh okay, I canafford this and that works for a
little while, but then, once itgets big enough, you know you
can't keep track of that andyou're like, oh, I've paid for
this bill, you know using acredit card or something, and
you're like, yeah, I'll pay thatback later.
And then you never do, and thenthat can keep just rolling over

(16:17):
.
You keep kicking the can downthe road until you sit down and
work out your numbers and alllike, if work dries up up, then
like, then it all kind of hitsyou.
So, uh, just before I foundlive life build I was I was at
that point where work had sloweddown a bit and I was starting
to realize how much of a shitshow I was running and, um,

(16:37):
realizing that, yeah, I justdon't have much money, or I
don't have any money, and um,it's a hard thing to like.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
I wouldn't beat yourself up about it because
I've done it.
Most people in the industryhave done it.
But that explanation you justgave is pretty much what happens
.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
So all of a sudden you'reearning a bit more money.
You're employing people and youthink, oh, I'm making a bit of
money out of them or I'm goingto make this much money off this
job.
And it's if you don't know whatyou don't know.

(17:06):
It's very easy to.
Whatever it is, like you said,you're making a few bucks an
hour off these guys.
So you think you've got thatmoney to spend, or whether
you've quoted your job and youthink, oh shit, I had 50 grand
profit in that job.
That's awesome, that's going tocover this.
But yeah, if you don't know allthe other incidentals and the
insurances and the overheads andyou haven't a lot of people, I
feel and I think I had a bit ofthis as well you know it in your

(17:30):
head.
You know, yeah, I got a phonebill.
It's $90 a month.
Or yeah, I got a car paymentit's $300 a month.
It's not that you don't know it,but you're not taking the time
to put it on a document, add itall up and actually see what the
true numbers are.
Because when you it's like whenyou sit down like I do the same

(17:50):
thing now like you, I do likeconstant reviews with my
accounts manager and review whatthe incoming, the outgoing, the
work in progress, all thatstuff, and like you look, you go
through the list of bills andlike, individually they're not
too bad.
You might have a couple littleones, couple of gram.
I have a couple big ones 20, 30gram, 40 gram, whatever, and

(18:11):
like all all of themindividually aren't too bad.
But then you get to the bottomof the page.
You're like, holy fuck, 700thousand dollars.
Like, until you take time todocument things and see it as a
big picture, it can take a longtime to sink in and understand.
And yeah, where you ended up ispretty much where most of our
industry ends up.
You're kicking the can down theroad and waiting for the next

(18:33):
invoice to come in to help youpay for the bills that are
already overdue and so thatmoney goes and you've got no
money left to pay for the billsthat have come in since you got
that bill and it can be veryemotionally and physically
draining, can't it when you'rein that position.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
It's because you're like, scared as well.
It's like I know that I wasn'tmaking any money, but it's like
I don't want to sit down and dothe numbers because I was like,
oh, like, I know there's goingto be a big bill, so you just
focus on trying to solve thenext problem.
It's like, oh, I know this bigbass bill is coming in.
Hopefully I've got enough topay for it, but you know, we'll
see how we go when we get there.
And then, yeah, can you justkeep going?

(19:10):
And then, yeah, you end up in abig hole.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, so, mate, what's so?
You might have heard Mitchmention just before.
So Mitch is now a member of ourLive Life Build Elevate program
.
You actually turned up to alive event we did a couple of
months ago.
What do you think of that?
Yeah, it was unreal.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, the whole thing has been life-changing.
I came at such a pivotal momentas well.
Just where I'm at in businesslife, I kind of feel like I've
hit rock bottom now and I'mhopefully crawling.
Well, I am crawling out now,but it was like at that point,
good pick up, mate yeah.
That came from.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
LiveLiveBuild yeah, the words you used, but what
made you?
I do like to dig into this,because everyone's got a
different reason and it helpsour listeners out.
So what made you take that leapto sign up to LiveLiveBuild?

Speaker 1 (20:05):
So I've got a bit of a journey with business coaching
.
I've had three differentcoaching experiences and the
first one was not very good.
The second one was okay, I gotsome value out of it, and then
this one's been unreal, but Iwas already in kind of the
mindset.
And then this one's been unrealso, but I was already in the

(20:26):
kind of the mindset or I couldsee the value in coaching and
having a mentor, and that alsomassively came from my dad as
well.
So he's been a huge factor inmentoring for business wise.
But being an accountant it's abit not as relevant.
Business is still very muchrelevant and yeah.
So my first experience was notvery good at all and and dad

(20:48):
kind of told me that after Itold him my experience he was
like, yeah, I wouldn't goanywhere near one of those
because he's like it's a lot ofhis words, it's a lot of rah,
rah makes you feel good but itdoesn't actually help you, um.
And then my second experiencewas with another kind of
building um business coachingbusiness, which was okay, I got
some value out of it, but theyum, yeah, they weren't

(21:11):
necessarily builders, so itwasn't as relevant, like they
didn't really know what I wasgoing through or could give.
They gave me some value,definitely helped me in the
business, um.
But yeah, it just wasn't quitewhat I was looking for.
So I was in that space, in thatvery much mental space of I
need a coach, need someone, um,and then actually somebody
mentioned the Level Up podcastin their podcast, um, and I

(21:36):
thought, oh, I'll look that up,found it, and then listened to
one it was.
It was you know.
I was like, oh, this all is sorelatable, it makes so much
sense, um, so then I juststarted listening to it non-stop
.
And then I heard about the Ithink the pack challenge came up
on my facebook um feed so I umsigned up to that halfway

(21:57):
through that.
I just signed up as a member sohow?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
how do you like?
How do you take that punt, butlike, so, like you're not making
money.
So how do you tell yourselfthat I need to do this because
most people are just focused onI can't afford it, instead of
getting involved and and findinga solution that's going to get

(22:21):
them out of the hole they're in?

Speaker 1 (22:22):
yeah, I guess it's probably a a sales pitch from
that first coaching, butactually now I'm grateful for
because it did push me to.
He's like, basically, you can'tnot afford, you can't afford
not to sign up to it.
And it's like you know, if youget this coaching, it'll fast
track your learning and you'llthen, you know, be able to pay

(22:44):
off all your debts and you know,get it, get a good business
going.
Um, so having that understandingwas like yeah yeah, I don't
think at that point as well.
When I signed up, I was I wasfully aware.
I was like I know I'm not doinggreat and I'm like trying to
just do better and better, but Iwasn't fully aware of exactly
where I was at, whilst now Iknow exactly where I'm at.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yeah, because whether you're a builder, you're a
trader, you're an architect,designer, like I just think,
like everybody should havecoaches, like I've got multiple
coaches right now, because forme it's just like why would you
not go and spend time and moneywith someone that's doing or
achieve what you want to achieve, Whether it's business, whether

(23:26):
it's finance, whether it'sinvestment, whether it's health,
like it just sounds like nowthat I'm doing it, I'm so
addicted to it I can't believe Ididn't do it 20 years ago.
You're learning from peoplethat have made the mistakes that
you're going through, that havemade the mistakes that you're
going through.

(23:46):
So why wouldn't you skip allthat heartache, skip all that
bloody, lost money and anxietyand all that sort of stuff that
goes with it, and just go andsurround yourself with people
that are striving to achieve thesame thing as you are?
It just makes so much sense, butit really does like.
It really makes me happy now tosee so many young people like
yourself that are getting onboard with it, because I really

(24:08):
think I was a bit nervous aboutthe future of our industry for a
long time, but I'm reallyexcited about it now because to
see so many young people uh well, so many young people, but also
a lot of people that are youngin business taking the leap to,
to coaching, get help yeah, Iactually think the industry's

(24:29):
got a really bright future.
If you all continue to work onyourselves, work on your
business.
It's better for everybody, it'sbetter for our industry, it's
better for Australian homeowners, it's better for our
contractors, it's better for oursuppliers.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
It benefits everybody Well it's thanks to people like
yourself, creating things likethis and, um yeah, programs,
that's making a massivedifference no cheers, mate.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
I appreciate it.
I definitely appreciate youreaching out um.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
So you reached out to me before you joined live life
build didn't you like yeah, Ithink I you know you said that
call on one of the podcasts, um,so I was like I'm taking that
and then it still stands foranyone that's listening like,
seriously, you want to?

Speaker 2 (25:11):
yeah, if you're out there, you want to spend the day
with me?
Yeah, get in touch, we'll seewhat we can organize.
But, um, the um, it's just likethere's no.
I was actually talking to abuilder.
Um, like, with this level upexperience that we've got coming
up, um, we're going to be doinga lot of marketing and stuff.
And I was talking to a builderthat I've heard in the industry

(25:34):
for a very long time and lookedup to and we're going to get him
to help out with some of ourmarketing and stuff.
And because of the industry thathe's in now, and like he was
just sitting in front of me withhis jaw on the ground, just
absolutely blown away byeverything I'm doing in the
industry.
And he said to me like Dwayne,how have you managed to get

(25:56):
builders and tradies talking toeach other?
Because I've been in theindustry 36 years.
It has never happened.
And I was explaining to him,like that that is one of my
biggest drivers, like becausethat's what will change this
industry, like we're all in thistogether.
We need to talk to each other,we need to help each other out,
we need to give each otheradvice, um, and we, like you've

(26:18):
seen already in the elevatecommunity, like the knowledge
experience, uh, vulnerability,like everything that gets shared
in our community is off thecharts, and like you've only
been with us for a few months,but do you think that's
contributed to your growth, thatyou've had already?

Speaker 1 (26:34):
oh, yeah, massively, hugely.
I think that, um, for somereason maybe it's the australian
tall poppy syndrome or whateverbut people, builders, see each
other as competition.
But, like I think about youknow, if we've, if we've got a
massive housing crisis and youknow trade shortage and

(26:54):
everything like there's, there'sgotta be plenty of work out
there for us.
So there's no way like we canbe.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
You know we're not competitors like we're, we're
actually you, you know helpingeach other out because and like
I've had a lot of collaborationwith builders that I know, like
you know, we share staff andthings like that when we need to
and um, yeah, yeah, it's theonly way forward, like the whole
industry needs to, to worktogether and, um, like I said, I

(27:21):
think we've got a really brightfuture, not only with people
reaching out to get mentoring,coaching and all those sorts of
things, but just people wantingto build better, especially like
the whole healthy home movementand high-performance homes.
It's really just going to helpeverybody.
But let's get back to you andyour business.
Tell us about the name of yourbusiness, because I think it's a

(27:42):
cracker.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Agathe.
So I think when I started mycarpentry business it was called
Kingdom Creations and it kindof just came like I wanted to
have a name and I heard thisname Kingdom Building and I was
like, oh, that's cool.
And then I looked it up and itwas taken, and then so I just
kind of changed it a bit KingdomCreations.

(28:04):
But I was never really thatstoked with it.
It was just kind of somethingthat came up and then when I was
going to change into a buildingcompany, I had to change from a
sole trader to a company.
And then that was the time Iwas like, if I'm going to change
anything, like now is the time.
At the time I was going topartner with a good friend of

(28:26):
mine, um, and so I needed toformally make it a company so
that we could, you know, splitit properly and everything.
Um.
So, okay, I want to give thissome good thought and I want it
to mean something and have somevalue.
Um, so we're both christians,so we wanted to have it some
sort of biblical value.
So we spent a bit of time justthinking, going over it, and

(28:51):
then he opened to this, I think,just like the index in the
Bible, one of the first wordswas agathe, and so the word
means in the Bible.
It's like God created the earthand you know so it's good.
So that's the ancient Greekword there for good, and it
means good both in the moralsense but also in like quality.

(29:12):
So that's what we're trying tostrive towards.
We want to have a qualityproduct that we're producing but
also have good people and youknow, bring up, you know, good
people, solid apprentices andstuff.
A big heart behind the businessas well was how the
construction industry has, like,not a great reputation, and we

(29:34):
don't like the idea of clientsbeing concerned about tradies
coming into the house and thingslike that.
We want to create good peoplewhere it's like you know they'll
happily have you in their houseand have you around and stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
So that was a big heart behind it, the kind of
what do you talk about all thatin your marketing and stuff a
little bit, we've started towait.
That's.
That is the sort of stuff youneed to be getting out there,
like building that personalconnection with people, because
that that's that's a prettystrong meaning for the, for a
name of a company to like haveyou sat, have you ever sat down

(30:08):
and done like, figured out whatyour values are?

Speaker 1 (30:13):
uh, we've done a lot of it, not formally, not like
we've.
We've sat down and like let'slist it out and do that.
This is probably a good, goodthing to do, and I would be
sitting down and listing out allyour core values.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
You might end up with 20, 30, you could end up with
100, but just keep puttingcrosses through them and just
keep refining a list until youend up with I don don't know
four, five, six absolute corevalues, and I would imagine that
those core values are going totie in with what you just talked
about.
It's a powerful exercise to do,because when a business can

(30:46):
identify its core values and youcan use those values in the way
you communicate with people andthe way you're wording in your
documents, that's where youbuild those personal connections
.
I bang on about this all thetime.
A business is only as good asits relationships it builds with
people.
It doesn't matter.

(31:07):
There's no point spendingthousands of dollars on Google
AdWords and thousands of dollarson social media marketing and
new websites and all this typeof stuff if the information that
you're putting out theredoesn't mean anything.
Um, and one thing that I'vedefinitely learned in my journey
like you, you have to do ityourself.

(31:29):
Either you have to sit down anddo it yourself or you need to
sit with someone.
That gets it out of you,because if you're paying a
marketing company to come upwith your spills, to come up
with your posts, to come up withyour wording.
How does that relate to you?
It has to be personal, and whenyou can make it personal and

(31:50):
you can connect with people on apersonal level, that's the
separation between businesses.
It doesn't matter whetheryou're a tradie, you're a
builder.
If you, uh, if, if you're notmaking I'll put it this simple
if you're not making a personalconnection, the only difference
between you and the next guy isthe price.
And as soon as it, as soon asthe only difference is price,

(32:12):
most people will always go withthe cheaper one, because you've
added no value, there's nopersonal connection.
You haven't educated them onwhy they should go with you or
what you do better.
They're just simply looking atthe price on the bottom of a
piece of paper, and you wouldprobably know that from some
purchases you've made over theyears.
If there's no connection there,there you're only looking at

(32:33):
price, and if you're noteducated on what's in that price
, you're going to go with thecheapest every time.
So does it make sense?
yeah yeah, yeah, um, so what'syour, what's your ambitions for
the business?
Mate like you.
So how many?
Let's tell?
Tell me, tell us a little bitabout the business, how many
employees you got at the moment.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah.
So at the moment it's like fiveyeah Ambitions for the business
.
Back in the day when I firststarted, I had big ambitions to
like change the industry.
I saw how, like you know, wegot limited um carpenters out

(33:15):
there.
We and I see a lot of likeyoung guys particularly
struggling and not finding muchpurpose and, um, you know, just
end up drugs and whatnot.
Um, and I found that like formyself as well.
I was like, oh, I just found somuch purpose when I found
carpentry and then, through myearly experiences of hiring a

(33:40):
few apprentices as well, I waslike, oh, more often than not I
give someone a trial and theylove it and it's like.
It's like where, as males likemore commonly slot into this
position quite well, and I waslike I want to create a big
business so that I canaccommodate that for many people
and create a good environmentwhere people are looked after

(34:04):
and they're not, like you know,not abused and things like
create a nice, a nice place tobe and they want to go to and
they actually grow and, yeah, anice place to be and they want
to go to and they actually grow.
Yeah, I think these days,because I've been in a bit of a
hole financially, I've lost alot of that drive.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
So I think it's a good idea to dream a bit more
again.
It takes over right.
It's the most common story inour industry, like that
financial pressure can take awayyour passion, but um, it
doesn't mean that it can't comeback.
Like can you see now from thechanges that you've had in the
last three months that there'sdefinitely everything's possible
?

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely see, it's all
possible.
Uh, what's challenging is that,um, I've the life cycle of a
build renovation is so long, so,like you might meet a client,
you spend.
You could spend 12 monthsplanning and then you could
spend 12 months in construction,and so I'm still in the middle

(35:15):
of uh jobs that I know I'vesigned that like with old
problems, um, and so I've, nowthat I've fixed up the problems,
I'm starting to sign new jobsand have better systems, but I'm
still, you know, eating thefruit of of the old jobs.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
So yeah, and that transition period is the hardest
time because you've learnt toknow your numbers, you've learnt
to price things better.
So new jobs you're lookingforward to because you're going
to make good money.
But then that sort of can get alittle bit pushed to the side
because in your mind you knowthat jobs that you've already

(35:52):
got on you've priced the old way.
You're not possibly going tomake much money or any money out
of them.
So but you've got to keeppushing through that and just
stay focused on what you knownow and and just keep improving
because you'll the new jobs willmake more money and that
becomes the focus.
So don't lose you.

(36:15):
If you have that passion tocreate that big business so you
can house apprentices and bringthat joy to them like you had.
Man, keep going for it, getthat passion back.
It's still there I can tell fromdriving around this morning
with you, you've still got a lotof passion.
The um, I just look, you askedme this morning, um, you've

(36:42):
asked me some questions thismorning that I that has have
made me laugh, because I'm likeI'm no different to to any other
person out there, like I'm justI've been through the shit and
I want to.
Everything I do is just to, Iguess, help people avoid going
through some like I've beenthrough shit that I wouldn't
wish on my worst enemy.

(37:03):
I've lost a lot of money, likeall sorts of things.
But, mate, if you can spend thetime and the money to jump on a
plane and you're willing tospend the day with me and drive
around and take some notes, likefuck, like good, like I just
think it's fantastic, like whywouldn't I give that to people?
Like you haven't stopped mefrom doing anything that I was
meant to do today.
The phone rang like you, like I,just like I've.

(37:26):
It's like you're just a shadowsitting there like um, but just
seeing hearing the questionsthat you've been asking, um, and
just seeing the smile on yourface and seeing you writing down
notes, like mate, that's that'smade my week right.
Um, so yeah, I reallyappreciate you taking the time
out to spend time with me.
So, um, so you, you've got somequestions.

(37:49):
You wanted to ask me somequestions while you're here, so
yeah, let's get into them.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Uh, do you do bonuses with your staff?

Speaker 2 (37:59):
uh, we do, um, we've tried all different types of
things over the years.
Um, it really like people haveto add value, but to me that's
all.
It is like they have to beadding value.
If they're're not adding value,then there's no point giving
bonuses.
A bonus can be anything.

(38:20):
A bonus can be a pat on theback and a hug and well done,
mate, that's awesome.
Good on you, you've done reallywell there.
It could be take out for alunch.
It could be um, give them somehours off but still pay them
their whole um wage.
It could be we, I do all sortsof things.

(38:43):
Okay, I've, like last year,quite often I would turn up to
sites.
I just had a pocket full of 50bcf vouchers and just randomly I
would say, hey, mate, likesince I've been here last time,
it's awesome, you've done reallywell.
Here's a voucher like.
And then we've gone to theother end of the scale where
we've paid for family holidays,like I'm talking 10-15 grand

(39:09):
we've.
We've given people cash, um,like all sorts of things, and
honestly, I feel like the thebest results come from the
smaller bonuses that are donemore regularly, like those
vouchers I gave it last yearlike some of the boys were

(39:29):
absolutely stoked about that,like the fact that it was.
It was literally like justpulled out of the pocket.
Here you go, mate, like and aslab of beer.
Like not so much these days, wedon't do it as often as we used
to, but like occasionally I'lljust say to the supervisor hey,
mate, like um boys have donereally well this week like on
friday, just pick up a few slabsof beer, put them on the credit

(39:50):
card and just drop them off tothe job site.
So I think bonuses can be areally tricky one.
I don't think people.
I was just brought up, I neverexpected a bonus ever and I've
talked about this a lot on mypodcast and I still see it now.
I talk about it all the timeand it still doesn't go through
to people that work for me.

(40:10):
I used to give my boss likegifts because I appreciated my
job.
I think the whole world'schanged.
Like everyone just fuckingthinks I'm living an expensive
lifestyle, you're my boss, youneed to pay for it.
Um, whereas every job I've everhad, christmas always got my
boss gifts, whether it was abottle of alcohol, whether it

(40:34):
was a $50 or $100 voucher.
I've always respected that.
I have a job To me, I'mgrateful, I'm lucky.
So, yeah, I don't know.
I think bonuses are a funnything.
I think anyone that goesthrough life expecting bonuses
is an employee that you don'twant to have.

(40:55):
Bonuses are something that comewhen you're, I don't know like.
We had a young bloke, lockie,on the podcast not that long ago
and he put it really well youhave to prove yourself.
If you want bonuses, you needto prove that, like you need to
prove you're worth it.

(41:15):
You need to prove that you youdon't need your handheld.
You need to prove that you cando the work like um.
So yeah, I don't know, I'mpretty.
I think I'm pretty, probablypretty hard and pretty old
school when it comes to tobonuses.
I definitely don't give themout lightly.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
You, you have to really impress me to get a bonus
yeah, I guess my idea is justtrying to come up with way ways
of motivating the guys to workharder.
Um, not that they you knowthey'll work really well at the
moment, like I'm happy with howthey work, but it's like, oh, if
it was a way I could motivatethem to to just go that much

(41:52):
harder.
Like is there, is there a way Icould do that?
Like I've had ideas like um,because my project managers are
tracking the cost.
It's like, you know, if you can, if you can beat the, the cost
that we've put in here, I'llgive you what x percentage of of
what we make and stuff likethat.
Um, I haven't been thatsuccessful with it.

(42:14):
Like one of the guys even said,you know, it doesn't really
motivate him.
He was like, you know, saveyour money because it's like you
know he's he's he's just happyto come to work and, you know,
have a, have a good day at workand and he wants to go home and
can forget about it.
He's not really motivated bymoney.
So it is true, like you know,it's just a waste of money if
it's not going to achieve itspurpose of motivating someone.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
So yeah, I was just kind of curious if you had ideas
of I think there's so manyparts to that like it's not just
as simple as giving someonesomething.
Um, like I said, my personalbelief is if you've got a team
or people in your team that umexpect bonuses and pay rises all
the time, then I think you'reattracting the wrong types of
people.

(42:57):
I don't believe that, as a boss, like people should expect you
to fund their lifestyle LikeI've never done that.
I think there's a reallyawesome guy I follow on social
media.
Now I'm trying to get him onthe podcast Jack.
I think it's Jack Henderson orsomething.
He's a real estate guy.
I follow on social media.
Now I'm trying to get him onthe podcast, jack, I think it's
Jack Henderson or something.
He's a real estate guy.
Yeah, Jack Henderson and I justthink he's so good he tells us

(43:20):
how it is.
I agree with everything he says.
So do I.
And look, I definitely likethere's no cost of living
problem, like it's a people'slifestyle problem.
It's as simple as that.
Cost of living will continue togo up till the day the earth
ends.
The reality is these days thatpeople want two new vehicles,

(43:44):
they want the new house, theywant to fill the house with all
the new furniture, they want tohave the latest phone, they want
to go on all the holidays.
I don't know, I'm pretty oldschool at that.
If you want something, I'll putit this way.
Like even me as a businessowner, like I, I can't just go
shit.
I want that, I'm gonna, I'mjust gonna get that money.

(44:06):
Like I have to do somethingwith the business to make it
earn more money so that I can dothat.
So like when an employee thinksthat they need a pay rise or
they need a bonus, like thatmoney just doesn't come out of
thin air.
Like it physically has to bepaid for.
It has to be earned by thebusiness to do that.
And like one thing that doesget under my belt a little bit

(44:27):
is like I, I feel.
I do feel sometimes like I Ithere's so much more shit I
could put on social media that Idon't, because people don't
need to know my personal life.
And another reason I don't puta lot of stuff on there is
because if people see you doingwell, they expect more, but they
don't know what you're doingbehind the scenes.
So when you start investing inhouses or you start buying new

(44:49):
cars or whatever the case may be, they just assume that it's
because the business is doingwell and making more money.
They don't see that behind thescenes, like you haven't been
paying yourself much money,you've been saving up, you've
been investing in other thingsand you've created wealth to be
able to do those other things,because wealth is not created by

(45:11):
what you earn.
It's how you spend it.
It and it took me a long timeto understand that and it it
changed my life when I figuredthat out, because for a long
time I did live my life justthinking that I have to earn
more, I have to earn more, Ihave to earn more.
It's nothing to do with that.
You can have someone that earnsa hundred thousand dollars a
year.
That is a multi, multimillionaire.
You can have someone that earnsa million dollars a year, that

(45:31):
is a multi, multi millionaire.
You can have someone that earnsa million dollars a year, that
is almost broke.
It's all to do with how youspend your money, what you spend
it on.
Um I think we touched we had aquick conversation about this
morning like if you cut backyour wants, like you really
don't have to work that much,like you're happy to drive
around with an old car, happy tolive in a just a normal house,

(45:53):
like I think the word averageneeds to be thrown out like live
in a normal house, have anormal car, have a normal life.
You don't have to have all theshit you see on social media.
So back to the bonus thing.
But a lot of the time I seebonuses ruin businesses because,
um, like you take a salesperson, for example, like if they're

(46:14):
working on a, a commission or abonus type scheme, they're going
to just talk shit and talkrubbish, basically to get the
sale, so they get paid andultimately that's attracting the
wrong type of person or thesale to the business or whatever
it is they're trying to sell umand same.

(46:34):
And actually I saw a lot ofthis when I had my carpentry
business.
I would quite often, um well, Istarted out saying to the team
so we would have I've talkedabout this a bit before like,
occasionally, we would have say16, 18 might have 20 carpenters
smashing out a big set of unitsor a big childcare center frame
or something.
And so I'd say, all right, guys, um, if this frame is tied down

(46:58):
, braced, finished, ready for aframe inspection, um, I'll give
you all 200 bucks bonus onfriday.
And so 200 bucks doesn't soundlike a lot, but when you times
it by 20 guys, like it's a fairbit of money.
Um, and so I did that.
And then the boys would runaround, they'd get it all done,
and then we'd get the engineersinspection and they'd be shit

(47:22):
wrong, and so they'd expecttheir bonus.
But then I would have to bepaying them more labor to finish
the work that should have beendone.
And it took me a little, likeit took me a while.
We kept doing that because Iwas like shit, the work's
getting done, going all right.
But then I learned I've got a,I've got to add to that.
So then it started being well,righto, guys, I'll give you 200

(47:43):
bucks on friday if the framepasses frame inspection, so
adding another step in there andit was simple.
And then that made them.
They got it done quickly.
But it also made them pick uptheir quality because just for
that one step, by adding in thatone comment that it had to pass
fire inspection if it doesn'tpass fire inspection, no one

(48:03):
gets a bonus.
So not only did it help thequality pick up, it helped the
team work together, because ifone, if one of them fucked up,
they didn't do their part.
Everyone missed out.
So everyone was communicatingwith each other, helping each
other out, telling people howyou got to do that over there,
like.
So I think bonuses are good butyou've really got to figure out
a structure and you've got to bevery clear, um, on setting

(48:27):
expectations.
I personally believe now thebest bonus you can give anyone
is advice, and that's what Ireally try and do with my team a
lot now and my team are makingsome pretty big headway with it.
The ones that run with theadvice I give and implement it.
It's no different to you comingto Live Life Build or someone
going to a training thing.
Unless you implement something,it's no good.

(48:49):
So the team members that arereaching out to me like.
I got one team member inparticular that has an interest
in investing and property, andso we've had several
conversations about how I'veinvested.
I've put him in contact with mybroker and a few people that I
deal with, and that's been thebest bonus he could have ever

(49:10):
gotten, because he's actuallybeen able to buy his first
investment property.
So I don't think a bonus shouldalways be related to dollars.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
How do you show your markup on a proposal?
So is it, you know, worked intoeach item line, or is it just
at the bottom?
You know your builder's margin.
Your markup shouldn't beanywhere, mate, so you just have
a final price, then final priceand gst amount.
So that's the only like dollarfigure you have on there.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Yeah, okay look, I don't care who the clients are,
what the architect says, whatthe contract says.
There is absolutely no reasonwhatsoever that a client, an
architect, a designer should seeor request a builder's margin
markup, whatever you want tocall it.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
It's no one's business.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
There's no way of like.
It means nothing.
Yeah, it doesn't oh yeah, likeyeah, because the thing is as
soon as they.
Unless they know what's in it,it means absolutely nothing.
So it doesn't matter if it's 10, 20, 30, 40.
As soon as it's on there,whoever want, whoever is

(50:19):
requesting it, is going tocompare it to another quote, and
so you might have one builderthat puts 20, one bill that puts
25.
They're going to go straight tothe bill that puts 25.
Oh mate, why?
Why is your margin so high?
We've got another bill that'sput 25%.
Oh mate, why is your margin sohigh?
We've got another one that's20%.
Because people only see thefigure and the figure means
absolutely nothing unless youknow what's behind it.

(50:40):
The guy that's putting 20% mightnot understand his cost, might
be running a shit show.
The guy that's put 25% mightunderstand everything in his
business and he knows what heneeds to cover his overheads.
The guy that's charging 20could be still on the tools and
doing all the admin work himself.
The guy that's 25 could have asupervisor, could add admin

(51:01):
staff, could be renting anoffice space somewhere, could
own an office space somewhere,like who cares?
A markup means nothing toanybody and it's.
It's one thing that reallyfrustrates me that people think
they even like.
I think it's disrespectful.
Um, I don't think it shouldever be requested and I think

(51:22):
any builder that gets asked tolist it or document it or show
it on their proposal should bewalking away from whoever like
the client, the architect,straight away and going finding
work elsewhere.
But that's that's, that's myview, that's how strong I am on
it.
Like, walk away from the job,they're the wrong client so do
your uh proposals basically have?

Speaker 1 (51:41):
like uh, because you know the a common thing is like
oh, can you give me a bit moreof a breakdown of of this?
Like our proposals are verydetailed and like you know
you've got but everything's umbroken up so you know, detail.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Detail should be scopes of work, detail should
not be line item costings.
Yeah, okay, even line itemcostings.
My, my personal opinion andthis applies to tradies,
plumbers, sparkies, builders, Idon't care anybody you should
not be giving line item costings.
The only costing you should beshowing a potential client is

(52:15):
the final figure and the gstamount that's included in that
figure.
Only other pricing they shouldsee are allowance items.
So prime cost for visual sums,like I've educated all my trades
on to do it like.
So the the.
When I get a quote from theplumber, for example, the only
cost that he'll break down is ifI've asked him to, so if it

(52:35):
might have some specialty pumpsthat we've got to buy, or it
might have some, uh, might havehad a hydraulic engineer
involved and there could be some, um, civil works or something.
So I might get him to break itdown into stack work, rough in,
fit off for one price and thencivil works, another price,
things like that.
I don't expect anyone to giveme a breakdown, because it means

(52:59):
nothing to me and I really itreally gets under my skin.
I don't think that clients,architects, designers should be
asking for it either, because itmeans nothing because as soon
as soon as you show a clientlight item costings, they just
can pick one item.
It can be anything.
They pick painting.

(53:20):
You might have 45 grand forpainting.
So the thing is, when you showsomeone light item costing, they
will pick out the things thatthey personally feel are too
expensive without having a clueabout it.
So they might go through yourproposal.
So you've got 45 grand forpainting.
And in their mind they'll bethinking holy shit, like that 45

(53:43):
.
It can't cost 45 grand to paintmy house.
That's ridiculous.
And so they'll pick up thephone.
They might ring a painter, sayhey, much.
Hey, mate, I've got a threebedroom queenslander.
Uh, what do you think it'sworth to paint?
And the tradie on the other endof the phone is running a shit
show of a business, doesn't knowhow, it doesn't have any
systems or processes, said tohim oh look, the average

(54:04):
queensland is 35 000, withouteven knowing it or looking at it
.
So straight away that homeownerwill come back to you.
Go, I found a painter that'llpaint my house for 35 yeah, and
so that that's the can of worms.
You open up, yeah, and look,even if so, my like, I would
never get myself into thatsituation.

(54:25):
But if you're a builder outthere or a trader out there that
does this type of thing, youshould be learning from this.
Don't, um like, go back to theclient, say, okay, sweet, like,
get them out to site, tell themI want to meet them here, we'll
walk around the job, we'll get aquote.
I guarantee you, once they comeout to site, it ain't going to
be 35 000.
Once they walk around the job,they see the plans or whatever

(54:46):
the case may be, it won't be 35grand anymore.
On top of that, like, a builderhas generally built a
relationship with these trades,so it's not just about the price
, it's about, over time, you'veset expectations.
You've the painter knows whatyou want as a builder.

(55:06):
They know your standard.
They know how many, what, howmany coats you want.
They know what sort of primersyou want.
They know like my painter, forexample um, like, there's always
extra on top of our paintingand what the painter gives us,
because our, our team, coateverything before we lay decking
.
We coat it twice the whole wayaround so that when the painter

(55:29):
comes he's just got to finishthe top of it off, still put two
or three coats on the top, butthe timber's coated the whole
way around it.
Um, any pre-primed timber, it'sall got to be prepped, like the
.
The priming that comes onpre-piped timber is only there
for transport.
You've got to prep it, you'vegot to prime it.
So we prime everywhere thepainter won't be able to get to.
Um, our painter, we paint theunderside of all of our decks

(55:52):
black.
So that's just a standard we'veset.
So our painter allows for that.
So when a client sees line itemcostings and they pick
something out that they think isexpensive and they start asking
questions if they don't havethe relationship with that trade
and they haven't set all thesestandards and all these
expectations, the pricing isnever going to be right.
They're always, always going tofind a cheaper price.

(56:15):
And then you're going to haveto waste your time educating
them on all these things,meeting extra trades, and then
they end up going with thecheaper trade and then you're
the guy that's on site that hasto deal with the shit job yeah,
nice, good answer only show aland on signs mate, the only the
only.
If you're a builder doing a jobfor clients, the only other
costings a client should see isitems that they have to make
personal selections Only show aland of signs mate.
If you're a builder doing a jobfor clients, the only other

(56:35):
costings a client should see isitems that they have to make
personal selections on.
So prime cost for visual stamps.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
This is a concept that I've heard come up a few
times, and it could be a massivething that I'm missing, or it
could just be a thing that, butthis idea of a contingency in
your proposal do you do that, or?

Speaker 2 (56:53):
no, no, I mean it's look, it's something that I've.
I think I think clients shouldhave it.
It's something I've never, everput on my jobs, um, even back
in the day when I was running ashit show like.
I've always taken my job reallyseriously and I think the PAC
process has definitely helpediron it out.

(57:14):
But to me, my personal opinionis, whether you're a trader,
you're a builder, designer,architect, if you're taking your
job seriously enough and you'reputting in the time and the
effort to review the documents,price the documents, work
everything out, create scopes ofwork and price everything
accurately, then there shouldnot be contingencies.

(57:37):
Because my thing withcontingencies always been most
builders are putting it in butthey're not telling the client,
so the contingencies ultimatelyjust getting chewed up with all
the other shit that they'vepriced wrong.
But for the odd builder outthere that prices things right,

(57:58):
do they get to the end of thejob and go hey, here's 100 grand
back because I had 100 grandcontingency?
I think it's a very sneaky wayof operating.
Um, so for me, the only way acontingency should work is that
there should always be adiscussion with a client that
you should have a contingencyfor things that could possibly

(58:19):
go wrong or you might changeyour mind on things.
And so in my business, likewe've gone back and done a full
review.
We've collected, we've checkedall our data and we've actually
created a huge spreadsheet onevery job we've ever done how,
what percentage it went over thecontract price before we were
doing the pack process.
It was a shit show like therewas.

(58:40):
It was quite often because ofamount of variations.
They were a long way over sincewe didn't been doing the
project, the the pack process.
Our jobs are only going overcontract value by I think it
worked out average like I thinkit was 2.4 or 2.7 percent or
something, and most of that'sclient led, uh, requested,
variations.

(59:01):
So I just have a conversationwith clients now because it
always comes up and I just andwe've got two examples and I
just basically say to them look,if it's a new build, it's
completely up to you.
I I would recommend you havesome sort of contingency, maybe
two and a half to five percentum, because we could still have
latent conditions thatunforeseen at the site, that

(59:23):
things that are unforeseen atthe um, things that are
unforeseen at the time ofsigning the contract, buried in
the ground or whatever um, or ifit's a renovation, I generally
tell them look, if reallyprobably should have five to
seven percent up your sleevebecause it's an old home.
You never know.
Like we've done ourinvestigations, we've found,
we've already found some things,but um, like I always use

(59:47):
asbestos as an example like it'snot uncommon when you're
stripping asbestos that thereends up being a second layer or
third layer that wasn'tdiscovered when you're stripping
asbestos that there ends upbeing a second layer or a third
layer that wasn't discoveredwhen you did your site
investigation.
Or we've had multiple jobs wherewe send the asbestos guy out
during the pack process.
He does his samples on thefloors and things he like.
We've had one recently where hewas confident there was only

(01:00:09):
two layers on the floor, um, butwhen they actually started
doing the job there ended upbeing four layers.
There was like underneath thefirst two layers there was a
layer of compressed sheeting,but when they pulled the
compressed sheeting up, therewas actually a layer of um,
fibrous asbestos under that,which is really bad, and there
there obviously was a variationfor that yeah, we had sheets of
asbestos stuck to the undersideof a slab so once we pulled,

(01:00:31):
pulled it up, we discovered itand then it's stuck to it, so
you've got to pay for the wholeslab as asbestos.
Yeah, so I think contingenciesshould be in jobs, but they
shouldn't be the responsibilityof the builder or the architect.
It should be just a discussionthat the clients may have made
aware of that they shouldn'tstretch themselves to their very

(01:00:52):
last dollar and they shouldkeep a little bit up their
sleeve.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
I guess a follow-on question to that is do you ask
for proof of finance 100%?

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Yeah, 100%.
And I guess for anyone that,look, I don't know if I'm pretty
sure all contracts do it.
Up in Queensland here we usethe master builder's contract,
so it actually states like inthe contract that the clients
show proof of funds.
So we stipulate that clause.
It's part of our contractualobligations before we even start

(01:01:22):
on site.
So the usual thing, showing allyour property, identification,
showing that you own the, orvalidating who owns the property
, whether it's a husband, wife,company, whatever, but
definitely proof of funds, andwe get all sorts of things.
Um, I just have a conversationwith our clients on that one and

(01:01:42):
just say, look, that's not onethat has to be emailed to the
whole team like that one.
Just email it to sharon, ouraccounts manager.
She's the only one that needsto know it, her, and I'll have a
conversation about it.
It's completely confidential,but we just need to know that at
the time of signing thecontract the funds are available
to cover the contract amount.
So we ask for that, mate, evenif it's finance, because, uh,

(01:02:08):
like, people can't get financewithout putting some sort of
deposit or having to pay acertain amount themselves.
So even if, if the job'sfinanced, we still ask for proof
of funds, of the amount thatthe client has to put in.
And we get proof of funds in alldifferent ways.
We get people show us theirbank statements.
We get letters from bankmanagers.
We get copies of statements.

(01:02:31):
We get people show us theirshare portfolios.
We get people show like we'vehad a lot of wealthy clients, um
, show us the value of theirproperty portfolios, like all
sorts types of things.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
But if you're a builder out there that's taking
on jobs and you're notrequesting to see proof of funds
, like seriously you, you haveto start doing it yeah, nice I
guess, like if someone shows youtheir share portfolio, you're
taking on a bit of risk because,like what happens if their
shares dip whilst you're, youknow you've got a progress claim

(01:03:07):
coming up and yeah, good, goodpoint.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
So we've had that.
We've had multiple, um, wealthyclients share portfolios, um,
so, yeah, obviously, so,generally, if it's someone
showing us shares and that's howthey're, they're funding the
job through sale of shares, um,and this has happened on one job
, um, I'll get to that in aminute.
So what we do is we actuallyask for proof of funds every

(01:03:30):
time we submit a draw.
So every time we submit a draw,um, we ask for proof of funds
to fund the next.
Or we say, oh look, the nextdraw is going to be roughly this
like show us proof of fundsagain.
There's only been a handful ofjobs that we've done it for
every draw, because most clientsyou build up a relationship and
you can see they got far inexcess of what the job's worth.

(01:03:52):
But we actually have had one jobwhere the share market did
crash during the job and he itwas pretty tight as it was um,
and he basically came back to usand said, oh look, duane, um,
I'm just gonna have to do sortmy finances out because I I
don't like they've fallen and Idon't have enough to fund the
rest of the job.

(01:04:13):
And it was like he was comingback to us to sort of for us to
say, oh yeah, no worries, we'lljust fund the job till you
figure it out.
And I don't think he wasexpecting that.
We went back to him and said,oh, that's no drama, we'll just
put the job on hold until youcan afford to pay for it.
So, again, sticking to our guns, uh, being tough, like it's not
my fucking job to fund yourhouse, um, and so we put the.

(01:04:36):
We basically said that to himlike, if you can't fund the next
draw, um, we'll basicallyfinish up this week and we'll
put the job on hold.
It's easy for us to do.
We just follow the contract.
We stipulate that the, theowner, is unable to fund the
rest of the project, um, andyeah, he turned around.
No, no, no, no, I don't wantthat, you need to keep going.
And um, basically, within Ithink it was two weeks, he'd

(01:04:58):
been out seeing a brokerrefinanced some things and yeah,
was able to get the funding.
So I think that's another thing.
Like, as a builder or as anybusiness owner, like, you've got
to push back on your clients.
Like, don't get caught insituations where the client's
making you feel guilty becausethey can't fund what they've
requested they want.

(01:05:19):
That's not your problem.
They've asked you to buildsomething, they've asked you to
supply something, they've askedyou to finish this project or do
something for them, so it'stheir responsibility to pay for
that.
So don't get stuck in thesesituations where you're feeling
guilty because you've suddenlygot a client putting it back on

(01:05:39):
you that they can't afford topay for what they've asked you
to do.
So, um, be tough, stand yourground and don't be afraid to
put a job on hold.
Like it might sound a bit toughand a bit blunt, but it there's
actually quite a few occasionswhere we will email a client and
say, look, if this doesn'thappen or you can't do this,

(01:05:59):
then we will be putting your jobon hold, and that makes them
sort their shit out real quick.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Yeah, that's a big thing that I've been learning
lately is with cash flow.
And when I started and it wasonly recently that things
changed.
But when I started, you knowyou just got like one main
account for everything.
Cash is coming in, cash iscoming out and you're like, oh
yeah, I'm doing all right,there's cash in the bank.
But if you haven't planned outyour draws well enough, then you

(01:06:28):
know you're either cashflowpositive or negative, and
typically a lot of.
Before I was always negative andyou're having to use like an
overdraft or something to fundthat.
But now I guess what I'verealized is that like I need to
plan that out so that it'scashflow positive because the
client needs to fund their job.
I can't be funding the job forthem because then something

(01:06:49):
happens and they can't afford tofinish job for them because
then something happens and theycan't afford to finish it for
some big variation.
Then like I'm stuck and I'vegot to pay for it now because
I've already paid for stuff.
But, um, so how, how do you dothat?
You're, uh, planning out your Ithink you said in a point every
.
You plan it out every 21 days.
You kind of figure out whatwould be.

(01:07:09):
What would you need for thatthe next 21 days, and then
that's the year.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
Again, it's something that, as builders, we should be
pushing back on.
So we're in a position where wewill walk away from a job if
they don't fund it the way thatwe want it funded.
And we're no different toeveryone else.
We get pushback from banks allthe time.
So I'm educating the client onour payment process right

(01:07:35):
through our PAC process beforewe even go to contract, and I'm
just constantly like theyprobably hear it a dozen times
before we go to contract thathow our progress rules work,
what our expectations are Like.
We use a master builder'scontract, so we only use option
b or c.
So option b is custom draws,which we set um, and then option

(01:07:58):
c is um.
Like we use 21 day payments.
So, uh, right at the moment, um, right at the moment, five of
five out of our six jobs are alljust 21-day payments.
There's no questions asked.
And the way we get around thatis we give people an example of

(01:08:19):
what our draws look like.
So every time we put in a draw,it's scheduled out and we list
exactly what deposits have beenpaid, what work's been done on
site, what materials have beendelivered to site.
They know what they're payingfor and we basically charge them
for that, plus labor, plus ouroverheads, plus our company
profit, and that's our draw forthat 21 days.

(01:08:40):
I reckon it's the most honestway to run a building business
because we're getting paid andcovering everything, we've done
everything, we've orderedeverything, we've all the work
that's been done and theclient's not paying any more.
But if it is a draw where theclient isn't funding it or
there's finance involved andthey'll only do the option B and

(01:09:03):
we have to schedule the drawsout, we will have a lot of draws
.
So we still work the draws outas if we're getting paid every
21 days.
Occasionally it might be amonth.
So we still work the draws outas if we're getting paid every
21 days.
Occasionally it might be amonth.
So I'll work the draws out,I'll go through my proposal and
I'll sit with my accountsmanager and we'll add up the
work that we've scheduled inthat period of time and we'll
work out the draws to be thatroughly that percentage, so that

(01:09:27):
it's covering it and it worksreally really well, so well.
So and again, we're prepared towalk away from jobs.
So we've had multiple jobs inthe last 12 months where we've
educated the client rightthrough the pack process.
They've got all theirpre-finance, they've got
everything going.
They're just waiting for us togive the contract and the final
set of plans so they canfinalize their finance.
And they'll get an email fromtheir broker or the bank saying

(01:09:49):
we're not accepting thiscontract because we'll only do
option A, which is like fivedraws or six draws or something.
And our standard response is nowthat, look, we're really sorry
but we will pull out of theproject if that's the case and
again it might sound blunt, butit's my business I'm setting my
standards.
I am not going to have a bankor a homeowner set expectations

(01:10:15):
how I should run my business.
That's not how like.
That is not how a successfulbusiness operates.
A successful business operatesby everyone contributing to the
standards that I want to set.
So we just send that email backand we basically just tell them
look, we will not move forwardwith the project.
We are quite happy to walk awaybecause it's not worth the

(01:10:36):
stress, it's not worth thefinancial pressure on our
business to run a job like that.
And I'm very blunt with them.
I just tell them look, as asuccessful business operator, I
cannot operate a successfulbusiness under that contract
write a successful businessunder that contract.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
So does that mean you like you?
I guess you've got the depositfirst and that kind of access
funding for that first?
Well, it's essentially a bufferbecause, uh, if you're doing it
every 21 days and basicallycharging for what you've uh had
to spend in the last 21 days,for that 21 days you're funding
that.
So I guess that can come fromthe deposit, or then well, the
deposit's always up here inqueensland.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
The deposit covers the home or insurance.
It covers the q leave um.
Quite often it'll cover a fewdeposits on things we have to
pay early um to put on hold, butyou should always be ahead like
so yeah, the deposit isbasically building up a little
bit of a buffer so that you'realways constantly a little bit

(01:11:32):
ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
But that's how you get good cash flow in a business
but yeah, so, but you do haveto basically fund that 21 days
because, yeah, like you know,you might get your draw and then
next week you've got to pay adeposit for windows or something
, and so you've got to fund thatuntil yeah, but that's, that's
the beauty of 21-day draws.

Speaker 2 (01:11:50):
We've got a job or two jobs at the moment.
One job is a good example.
So we've got one job that thewindows won't be ready for six
months.
The windows are, I think, offthe top of my head, like 187,000
or something, and it's with asupplier that we've never used
before.
It's a new product and I'm verykeen to use it.

(01:12:15):
The client wants to use it, butbecause we haven't got a
reputation there, we don't havean account with them, so they
want a 50 deposit straight up tosign the order.
So we've done that.
In the last few weeks we've hadto sign the order.
We've we've had to pay 50%deposit.
So because we've got a drawnext week, we'll be getting that
50% straight back.

(01:12:35):
So that's the beauty of 21-daydraws You're never too far out.
You're always claiming whatyou're having to spend in that
time period.
How do you?

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
keep track of knowing exactly what you've spent for
that job for the last 21 days.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Easy as mate.
Everything should be entered inyour accounting software.
So, look, I get it.
Smaller businesses that don'thave admin and accountants and
stuff.
It's a little bit different but, believe me, it is something
that you have to spend the timeor you need to invest the money
to hire someone to do it, get abookkeeper or something.

(01:13:10):
So, look, we've got a full-timeaccounts manager in our
business.
Every week the bills are comingin and they're getting entered
into our software.
So every single Tuesday I cansit down with her and she can
just change dates.
We can just pick a period andany invoice at all that's coming
in that period, we can see whatthat job's cost.
So, yes, we did it on Tuesdaythis week and like, literally,

(01:13:35):
because we had a draw to do, andliterally she'll just put in
the dates from the last draw tothis draw and it tells us.
So the only things that we haveto add on to that is if it
falls in the middle, because wepay our team in fortnightly.
If it falls in the middle of apay period, then we just have to
do a quick estimation of howmuch labor our own team and how
much supervision's being spentthere and just add that onto it,

(01:13:57):
because we won't get thosefigures until the following week
when the boys put their timesheets in okay, yeah, because I
can see like I've got um jobmanagement system I can see how
it would work for because, yeah,every time bill's coming in or
timesheets go in it gets loggedstraight away.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
So I can, I know exactly where I'm at um, but I
can't like pick.
You know the timing, like yousaid, but I guess you know I can
see how much I've drawn so far.
So it'll tell me total, howmuch have I spent so far, and
then minus off what have Iclaimed, and then that would be
21 days.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
I would like I don't know, we just do it in our
accounting software, but youshould.
I would imagine you should beable to do it in zero, like most
accounting software is.
You can pick a time period andyeah, zero will work, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
At the moment, though , it's not organized so that, um
, oh, it is.
But if you haven't got it setup to do it, honestly, it's not
organized so that, oh, it is,mate if you haven't got it set
up to do it honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
It's one of the most valuable things you can do in
your business.
You should, at any point intime, be able to look at your
accounting software and knowexactly where your job's at.
If you're entering all yourincomings regularly, that is how
you ultimately get financialfreedom from your business.
You need to be able to look atevery job once a week and know

(01:15:13):
exactly where you're sitting,what's under, what's over, what
you need to adjust, what's leftoutstanding all those types of
things.
We had a good conversationabout that this morning, with
being able to move things aroundand check on things.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
Yeah, yeah Cool.
Do you adjust your pack feedepending on the job?

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
uh, occasionally.
So it's no different tobuilding the house.
So when we do our pack process,which is our paid as a
consultant preliminary process,we don't go into that agreement
generally until the second orthird meeting with the client.
So the client has to make itthrough our inquiry form.

(01:15:54):
They have to meet our criteria.
Uh, we need to.
Once they've met our criteria,we, we make the call.
It's a job for us, we'll have it, I'll go and have a meeting
with them, um, and then againget a feel like, if my guts is
telling, if they're pushing backon things, if they're
questioning what I'm tellingthem, then it's, it's not a job
for us.
I'm not going to spend threemonths, six months, two years,

(01:16:17):
my life, trying to convincesomeone like I want someone that
believes in what we do,believes in what we deliver and
we're going to be able to workwell.
So from there, if they want tomove forward, if it's a good fit
, we'll generally have a meetingwith the building designer,
architect and we'll all meet asa team.
That's generally the thirdmeeting and then from there, by
that point we've got a scope ofworks off them about roughly

(01:16:39):
what they're wanting.
We've got a project spendamount out of them.
We've had a meeting with thedesigner so we sort of know
which direction the job may beheading whether it's a new build
, renovation, extension, andthen we'll prepare a scope of
works based on that and adjustour fee accordingly.
So I would say 80% of our jobsare just a set fee.

(01:17:02):
So our standard fee now, Ithink, is just over $11,000, and
then our highest one to date, Ithink's been close to twenty
thousand dollars, and then we'lllower it a little bit to like
six, I think six, six, sixty orsomething is one of our standard
ones, and that's literally ifit's a backyard pool or

(01:17:24):
something like this, it's not afull job, but, um, pretty much
most jobs are our standard fee.
The only thing that will makeus adjust it normally is if
there's additional, but we'vegot one at the moment that we've
.
We've put up higher becausethere's a lot more site
investigation.
It's a really poorly built homethat they want to do a

(01:17:44):
renovation on.
There's a the with the umthrough the, through the um
initial site meetings.
Um, just by looking around thesite before I left, I picked up
that the neighbors.
I thought the neighbor's fencewas wrong, so, and it's turned
out it is, but we're able tomake the call that we're going

(01:18:05):
to have to do a few more sitevisits.
We're going to have to get asurvey in.
There's going to be additionalsite visits to pull string lines
and identify things.
So we up that price because I'mgoing to have to be outside.
I'm going to have to getprobably my supervisor or
construction manager out there.
So you've got to adjust yourfeed.
It's no different to thebuilding.
Like a building has a scope ofworks.
Your preliminary process needsto have a scope of works.

(01:18:28):
So we give our clients a fullscope of works of what we're
going to deliver in ourpreliminary process.
So how many site visits, howmany design meetings, how many
supplier visits, how many roundsof costings, like it's all
detailed out and then it's alsobesides adjusting our fee to
suit that scope of works.
We make it very clear that ifthat scope of works is exceeded,

(01:18:51):
there will be hourly rates foradditional meetings or my time.
So yeah, you've just got to setexpectations.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Be very clear with people so how does your process
work?
From someone jumps onto yourwebsite, they fill in an inquiry
form, then what happens fromthere till you start like
they've signed a preliminary PACagreement?

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
Mate, it's.
Look, we I'm not afraid to talkabout.
Like.
One thing I say to everybodylike social media is an
incredibly free tool, so useyour social media to talk about
your processes.
So obviously, I talk about it alot on my own socials.
I talk about it a lot on DPSConstructions.
We do it a lot with live lifebuild.
So if someone makes it throughto us and they don't know that

(01:19:37):
we charge a fee, like it's very,very rare.
Most people know, beforethey've even made contact with
us, that they're going to haveto pay for our process.
But if they don't, um, we havean inquiry form that they get
sent out.
So they go on our website, theysend us their details, we send
them an inquiry form.
We've actually got an embeddedvideo.

(01:19:58):
So when they get sent aninquiry form, there's a three or
four minute video there andit's literally just me
explaining our process andletting them know that they're
going to have to pay for it.
And, yeah, we basically, once Isend that information back, we
qualify them.
We're choosy on what we, whatjobs we take on.
So and I think this is a reallyimportant part for all business

(01:20:18):
owners, tradies and builderslike you don't have to take on
every client, and the harder youpush back, the better your
business becomes, because everyjob that you say no to opens up
the door for a quality client.
And so our inquiry form is ourfirst time-saving strategy.
Like, if they can't number one,if they can't take the time to

(01:20:39):
fill out our inquiry form andthey don't respect that process,
I'm not going to work with them.
Like if they think their time's.
Like we have the odd clientthat will send an email back
saying I don't have time to fillout this form.
I just want to talk to Duane.
You're not the client for us.
You don't follow our processFor me straight away.

(01:21:00):
That's see you later, becausethey're already showing me that
they don't respect my time or mybusiness.
They're valuing their time.
So I guarantee any builder thathas a client like that is going
to be the client that is goingto be ringing them after hours,
harassing them on weekends,changing things, because the
client's setting the standards,not the builder, and so they've

(01:21:22):
got to make it through ourinquiry form Quite often.
There can occasionally be a bitof backwards and forwards there.
So because we actually we knowfrom reading what they put in
their inquiry form that a lot ofpeople don't understand what
we're asking for.
So three of the things we askfor is project spend, scope of
work so what they want and thejob address.

(01:21:43):
And they're simple things but alot of people overlook them.
So the very first thing we lookat when we get an inquiry form
back is the job address.
We look it up on google.
If it's on a main road, anintersection, in a school zone,
near a suncourt stadium, I don'twant to know about it.
It's going to cost me ashitload in parking tickets.
I'm going to get have to getparking permits.

(01:22:04):
It's like traffic control.
There's so much cost that goeswith that that the client
doesn't understand and doesn'twant to pay for.
So that would be a job straightaway that we would go back to
and say oh look, really sorry,at this point in time we can't
help you.
Project spend is a good one,like a lot of people, their
project.
So on average, someone's budgetand what they want is 70% out,

(01:22:26):
because people will choose tospend a figure based on how much
money they have in the bank,how much money they can borrow
or what their friends and familyhave told them they'll get for
it.
So they're never aligned.
So quite often we have to goback to them and tell them like
hey guys, we're really sorry butat this point in time we're

(01:22:49):
unable to help you.
Based on the data from ourcurrent projects, for the scope
of works you've given us, yourbudget really needs to be
between this and this.
If that sounds like a budgetyou can possibly spend, then
we're happy to go further.
So we put all these hurdles inplace to make sure by the time
they get time to spend with me,it's quality time.
But we find quite often by doingthat step, a lot of clients

(01:23:12):
will come back and go, oh, mate.
Like, oh, thanks, no, otherbuilders actually guided us on
what we want to send a cost.
We would really appreciate sometime so you can educate us more
, and the job might still not gothrough, but I'm happy to spend
time with a client that hasthat respect and comes back.
We can have a conversation, andwe often find that most clients
, once you educate them, go oneor two ways.

(01:23:34):
They're like oh, look, we, wemight just hold off for now
because we really want that andwe, we just can't afford it at
this point in time.
Or they go oh look, no one'seducated us.
Now that you've educated us onon your process and how things
work, we actually we've got abit more.
We're happy to spend more moneybecause we know that we're
going to get what we want.
So there's a lot of hurdles inthat before they get to that

(01:23:57):
signing our preliminaryagreement, because I'm not going
to go and rush in and sign apreliminary agreement with
someone that's going to waste mytime.
I think this is an importantthing.
In the industry, everyone saysthey have no time and yet
they're quite happy to throw itaway and waste time having
meetings that are going nowhere.
So I think you've got to havethose hurdles in place to figure

(01:24:21):
out who's worth spending timewith and who's not.
And yeah, by the time they makeit through to the end and they
sign our paperwork, we knowthey're going to be a quality
client.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
Yeah, okay.
So if they've come through yourinquiry form, there might have
been a bit of back and forth, umjust via email, or would they
have called you, or you don'tget because they don't get your
number very rare.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
The only way people call me mate is if they've been
given my number.
Like we don't have our numberon anything, so they yeah, they
have to try pretty hard yeah,okay, and then.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
So if you go okay, yeah, this is a job that you're
interested in then will you goout and have a look at, have a
meeting with them and then mywife in the office organized
everything.

Speaker 2 (01:25:01):
so nine to ten, I don't speak to a client until
that initial meeting.
I rock up and and say, g'day,um, my wife may have given him a
call somewhere in that processif she thinks that there's
something that they haven'tfilled out right or that might
need clarification.
She'll ring him up and just sayhey, just want to get
clarification on this before you.
So what we do through our wholeprocess is tell the client

(01:25:25):
whether it's an email or my wifetalking to them we need this
information so that when Duanecomes to meet you, you can get
the best, like we can add thebest value to you in that hour.
And we make it very clear it'sonly an hour.
Like that's it.
You're locked in, you get anhour, so don't waste it.
So when you set, the thing isso many people are scared to set

(01:25:46):
a standard because they thinkif they're too tough on the
client, the client's going torun away.

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
But reality is, the more strict you are, the more
standards you set, the more theclient respects you.
There's more work out therethan the industry can handle if,
if you don't have enough work,it's not, uh, it's not because
there's not enough work outthere, it's because you're doing
something wrong.
It's like because you're not in, you're not marketing yourself
well enough, or like peopledon't know you're around or
whatever.
But yeah, so it's like to fixthat problem.
I need to work on getting myname out there rather than
Social media, mate, it's free.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
Just get out there.
Like don't I tell everyone allthe time, like don't be afraid
what you put out there.
Like so many people wait tillthe job's finished.
They want to put all the fluffyphotos and all the finished
shit.
But, like I talked about thisyesterday, to me that sets a
really false expectation,because when you're attracting
clients because they love allthe fluffy pillows and the nice

(01:26:41):
finished projects, they haven'tseen all the progress.
So when they turn up to siteand it's a shit fight or
something doesn't go to plan orthere's variation in their mind,
they've just seen that perfectpicture and they're like, why is
all this happening?
And then all of a sudden youget these difficult situations
or the relationship sours.
The best thing any business cando is just be real.

(01:27:03):
Get on there, do yourwalkthroughs on site, talk to
clients about why you're doingsomething, how you're doing it.
Introduce your team members.
You about why you're doingsomething, how you're doing it,
introduce your team members.
You have such an incredibleopportunity to build a
relationship with every clientout there that's watching you
before you even meet them andthen, when you meet them, it's
all quality.
I don't waste time anymore.

(01:27:24):
I don't have to sell mybusiness to people I meet, I
don't have to just talk aboutwhat we do so many people when I
first meet them, they're likethey all tell me oh, I feel like
I already know you because I'vealready talked so much shit on
social media.
So it's, it's super valuable,mate, like just don't be afraid
to get on there.
Like I'm I still hate hearingmy voice like you just got to

(01:27:47):
get on there and do it yeah, Iguess I know that uh, investing
that time and will pay offeventually.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
But, being the instant gratification generation
, it's hard to like commit to itwhen you know you start with no
followers and like, no, noone's listening, so you don't
see the fruit of it straightaway.
So that's what makes it kind ofhard and challenging to go
after that.
But everyone's got to startsomewhere, exactly.
Yeah, when do you give jobs astart date or an opportunity to

(01:28:15):
like book in?

Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
um, well, so we don't this surprise a lot of people,
but we don't.
We don't go to contract till weknow we can start the job.
So there's no way in the worldI'm signing a contract on a
house, taking deposit if I knowthat I can't start it for three
months, six months, whatever itis.
So all of our clients areeducated through our PAC process

(01:28:37):
that once everything'sfinalized, once everything's
confirmed, you'll basically justsit in the queue until our team
can manage your job.
I'm not going to take on morejobs than my team can handle,
because that's just going tolead to mistakes and we won't
get the quality that you youdeserve.
Um, so like, I'm just educatingmy clients.

(01:28:59):
So, like even with we talkedabout swimming, like with all
this wet weather, we're alreadyemailing all of our future
clients saying hey look, allthese weather events we're
having is delaying our currentprojects, which means we're
going to be delayed in ouroffice.
So that means your state date'sgoing to be affected.
We will update you as soon aswe know so, but we've got
multiple jobs that we should bestarting in april this year that

(01:29:21):
now, more than likely, probablywon't start till september,
october.
But we're just being honest.
We're telling the clients that,so we'll just send them an
email once we know, once jobsare under.
Current jobs are under control.
We're finishing a few up.
We'll just be emailing them andeducating them.
Hey guys, we're about to handover job.
In eight weeks time, your jobsare next in the queue.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
Um yeah have you ever had anyone like uh say that you
know results in them gettingpushed back too far and they're
like, oh, I want to start sooner, but say you're already through
the PAC process, so they'vealready paid for that, and they
decide they want to go somewhereelse so they can start sooner.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
Look, the situation we're in now, with all the wet
weather we've had, is probablythe worst we've ever been.
We've never had to push so manyjobs out so much.
So again, we're just beinghonest with people and telling
them but like, so, like we'vegot jobs backed up to start,
like lots of jobs, like we'vecurrently got just under $12
million worth of work underconstruction, we've got another

(01:30:25):
$11 million worth of work tostart and we've got another.
I think as of last week therewas nearly another $10 million
worth of work in PAC process andwe, just in the last two days,
we've signed another four PACprocesses.
So we've said to all of thoseclients we've made it very, very
clear that they want to do ourprocess, they want us to do the

(01:30:47):
jobs, and we've just been very,very clear that this is our
current workload.
This is what we already havelocked in um.
So if you would like and I justtell them, if you everything
was signed, sealed, ready to goand your deposit was paid and
you're ready to start your joboh sorry, if everything was
costed, agreed on price,everything was ready to go we

(01:31:11):
would not be starting yourproject until september 2026 or
february 27, like we're tellingthem now.
So we're setting thatexpectation with them.
And I know how people are.
They get excited.
They want to pull thingsforward, move things around.
But every meeting I have with myclients through the whole pack
process I give them an update.
So at the initial, like thesejobs that signed up to a pack

(01:31:33):
process this week, some of themmight have their preliminary
designs designs done in the nexttwo to three months or two
months.
When we have that next meetingto present the preliminary
design, I'll give them an updateof where our current jobs are
at and what I think their startdate might be, because every job
changes.
Like All those jobs, it's amoving target every single day.

(01:31:53):
So I'm just constantly tellingthem where it's at and then that
way they can be organizingtheir finance, they can be
organizing rentals.
So communication is a key.
You just got to constantly beupdating people.
Well, mitch, thanks very muchfor coming up today.
I really take my hat off to youfor reaching out, coming up,
spending the day with me.
It's been a pleasure.
It's been really good having aconversation and asking

(01:32:15):
questions and I hope you'velearned stuff.
Have you learned stuff today?
Absolutely yeah, well, thedifference will be made whether
you implement it or not.
So I know you've taken a lot tonotes.
Go back, reflect on them andany implement things, because
that's what ultimately willcreate change.
So, yeah, we'll see you nexttime you come up a couple of
months time yeah, yeah, youappreciate it all.

(01:32:37):
Good now, guys.
Thanks for watching.
I look forward to seeing you onthe next one.
Look, if you haven't boughtyour tickets yet, make sure you
get on board for the level upexperience.
It is going to be the greatestevent the construction industry
has ever seen.
Tickets are selling fast, somake sure you get on board.
Friday, 30th of May, here inBrisbane.
Global speakers Matt Reisinger,paula Baker-Lepore, plus a

(01:33:00):
whole host of other great Aussieinternational speakers and
seriously, my mission is tocreate a new building industry
and when you come to this daythis Level Up experience you are
going to leave that day on firebelieving in yourself,
believing in your business andbelieving that we can create a
new building industry.
Look forward to seeing youthere.

Speaker 1 (01:33:20):
Are you ready to build smarter, live better and
enjoy life?
Then head over tolivelikebuildcom forward.
Slash, elevate to get started.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
Everything discussed during the Level Up podcast with
me, dwayne Pearce, is basedsolely on my own personal
experiences and thoseexperiences of my guests.
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}I Won the Lotto: Spending the Day with Duayne is Life Changing.

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

All Episodes

I Won the Lotto: Spending the Day with Duayne is Life Changing.

Dateline NBC