NEAR DEATH Experience Set Me On My Path in The Building Industry

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#133 Byron shares his remarkable journey from struggling school student to successful building business owner, revealing how finding his passion completely transformed his educational experience and career trajectory.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you're in that flow state and you're pumping
frames, got the tunes orwhatever you're doing, like man,
it's the best feeling in theworld.
Yeah, when you've got a goodcrew, like, yeah, it's
unstoppable, like it's really,it's one of the funnest things,
that's what you get hooked on.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
G'day guys.
Welcome back to another episodeof Level Up.
We are back in the shed foranother cracking episode this
afternoon.
I'm pretty pumped about thisone.
The guest we've got with ustoday sent us an email with a
bit of a, I guess, outline ofhis life story, and it is
absolutely gull.
So sit back, buddy, grab a canof Coke or a drink of water or

(00:40):
whatever you want to grab, andthis one's going to be a cracker
.
So massive shout out to Byron.
How are you, mate?
Good mate, thanks for having meon looking.
Been looking forward to it.
Yeah, mate, I'm stoked thatyou're here.
So Byron reached out to me onInstagram a lot of like a fair
while ago now yeah, yeah, maybeSeptember or something last year
.
Yeah, started chatting aboutsome things yeah, good, a good

(01:01):
six, seven months ago.
And and as I say all the time,I put it out there that anyone
that wants to come on thispodcast have a chat, I'm happy
to coach, mentor and give youadvice or whatever.
And yeah, byron's one of theguys that have put his hand up
and he's come on the.
We're going to have a chattoday about just what he's up to
, what he's doing and how we cando that.
So you run a building businessLimit yeah, limitless building.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Co is um my company, so yeah, where the name come
from.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Um, it's got a bit of a story.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
It's just I suppose it's a guy.
It's a book called limitless um.
It's a guy that sort ofstruggled to learn through
school and everyone sort of quiton him and he found his way
like, and learned to speed readand really learned to learn in
his own way.
And it's a book to help peoplelike pretty much all of us
builders with ADHD and all thatsort of stuff that struggle at

(01:48):
school.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Just to learn.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, like just to get through it all and comes
from that.
And then just there's anotherbook called Relentless Not that
it ties to the name, but it'ssort of like that same pursuit,
and that's about Kobe andMichael Jordan and all that.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Have you been diagnosed with ADHD?
Like, I mean, that's about Kobeand Michael Jordan and all that
.
Have you been diagnosed withADHD?
Ah no, we'll come back.
I haven't worried about it.
We'll come back to that, butyeah, well, that's an awesome
story behind getting a name.
Yeah, so Do you know who wrotethat?
I've read that book.
I can't remember who.
I've got it written down, butyeah yeah, shane might be able
to look that up.
But yeah, it's awesome when youlike.

(02:24):
I think it's something I wish Ihad done better.
When I got my name, like I'vetalked about before, the
accountant just said what do youwant to call it?
Dps Constructions.
Like you've actually put timeand effort into thinking about
it, so it means something.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, and I knew from the start, like, not to nothing
against you, I never wanted myname tied to it, because I knew
from the start where I wanted togo and I knew that a name
couldn't be tied to it becauseit needed to be.
It wanted to be a company, andthen sissy companies and an
entity, you know all that sortof stuff.
And I was like limeless canlast in the small scale and it
can last in a big scale and Iwas like, well, it's that name

(02:59):
plus limeless obviously ties inand there is no limit.
So yeah, that was.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Jim Quick.
Yeah, yeah, look it up, jimQuick.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
It's a really good book.
For anyone that's a little slow, it is a really good book.
Yeah, and if you're learning toread properly too, like speed
reading and all that sort ofstuff.
So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
So, like, obviously this podcast is aimed at traders
and builders and theconstruction industry and stuff.
And your email you sent throughwith like a bit of a brief on
your life, like honestly, likeit was only a page long or
something, but almost out ofteremor because it's a very
common story.
Yeah, so do you mind if we goback and talk about stuff?

(03:40):
Yeah, do you want to tell us alittle bit about your childhood?
Yeah, stuff.
So do you want to tell us alittle bit about?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
your childhood, yeah, yeah.
So I grew up in an army family,mum and dad.
Dad joined when he was 15, mumnot too long afterwards, so they
were in very early.
They had me pretty young too,like mum would have been like 20
.
And they split very early too,when I was about three, which

(04:05):
like never affected me as achild.
I was like you don't understandall that stuff till you get
older.
Um, but my dad wasn't aroundmuch and it's like I don't see
this.
It's his fault.
He's on tour, like he's in umoverseas protecting us with you
know all his friends, aseveryone does, but do you know
your old man?
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, youknow all his friends, as

(04:26):
everyone does, but do you knowyour old man?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,nothing's wrong with any of
those relationships, but yeah,it's just um, it was just tough,
I suppose, like not having himaround.
You know, um, and then thatsplit parenthood sucks and I
think you don't really see thebyproduct of that till you're a
bit older, till you're smartenough, um, so, yeah, and then,
yeah, I think that was just anon-flow effect through school,
socially and academically, andthat, as I said in the email, I

(04:47):
was pretty bad, like real bad,at school.
Um, till, yeah, year 11 and 12,what are your classes?
Really bad like, oh, just like,straight d student yeah, didn't
want to be there.
No home attention yeah, I was introuble, yeah, I was just bored
, like I didn't understand, likeall of us, like obviously maths
and English matters, but therest of it like I don't need it.

(05:09):
You know, I still haven'treally even used the maths.
Like we use a little bit of iton site and stuff, but it's not
one of those things and so, yeah, I was just not very good at it
till 11 and 12, went to thetrade college over there at
Scarborough and then pretty muchstraight A, b sort of student,
because we just did maths,english, business and my trade.
That was it.
So I did four weeks of school,four weeks of work through 11

(05:33):
and 12 and, yeah, set me uppretty good.
I was qualified when I was 20.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
So we've had quite a few of our apprentices go.
I've gone blank.
What's the name of the tradecollege over there?

Speaker 1 (05:45):
I think it's Australianralian trade college
yeah, yeah, it's an awesomesetup yeah, I think emerald
owner or something.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah but, um, I think it's like
our people need to be encouragedto do trades, especially now
with all the issues we're havingwith housing shortages and the
cost of housing and stuff, butlike the old-fashioned days of
trying to push everyone touniversity and to finish like.

(06:10):
I'm definitely not a believerthat people should finish year
11 and 12.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Because, just like you just said, if you have no
interest in being there andyou're not getting anything out
of it, why waste your fuckingtime?
Yeah yeah, so and I think it'sawesome to hear like your
turning point because that wehear it all the time from guests
on this podcast like when youflick that switch and all of a
sudden you've got an interest insomething.
Yeah, your brain switches on.

(06:35):
You're keen to learn like yeahoh it's.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
It's like all of us, like even you know, I suppose,
in building itself, um, I'dbecome a builder.
But I love carpentry, like, I'mvery passionate about it.
Like I watch YouTube and Iwatch awesome framers and I I
learned the fastest way to frameand the most efficient ways and
I get hooked on that stuff Like.
And so when you like really dolove that stuff, when you're a

(06:58):
carpenter, then you're like Iwant to be a builder, but then
carpentry is almost got nothingto do with being a builder,
builders, a builder but thencarpentry's almost got nothing
to do with being a builder.
Builders, marketing, sales,accounting, you know all that
sort of stuff.
But now I'm hooked on business,like I just love it, I love
watching it all work.
I love the leadership side ofthings, which is my new hobby, I
suppose, like really trying tobe a better leader, team,
organizational health, you knowall that sort of stuff.

(07:20):
So yeah, yeah, just I think youhave to be super passionate
about what you're doing,otherwise there's no attention
there, like I'm, I'm still thesame now.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
So what?
Um, just go back to your school.
How did that affect the rest ofyour life?

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Um, it made it tough like through up until year 10,
like just, yeah, as I said,struggled socially, like just,
and academically.
So I didn't really fit in, Ithink.
And what I meant by Iunderstand it later on in life
was I almost had likeabandonment issues, which is
what I sort of thought like, andI didn't figure that out like
recently.
But I was like, oh, no one isgoing to stick around, if you

(07:54):
know what I mean, like, and Ididn't know that when I was a
kid, but I think that's what Ithought, like you know, so I
would never try to get too closeto anyone and all that sort of
stuff, because I was like, oh,he's going to leave, or like it
wasn't genuine or something likethat.
So I struggled.
And then, yeah, year 11, 12,when we're just around like just
normal people, like all of us,and I don't know, it just got

(08:17):
easier, I suppose, and I gotthrough some of that stuff
somehow.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Like I didn't figure it out at the time, but it sort
of just started working.
So, yeah, it's much better onceI'm in school.
So yeah, but the, um, theteachers seem to be a lot better
as well, like when you go tothose trade colleges and TAFEs
and things like obviously, thoseteachers there because they've
got a passion as well, yeah, um,I know what you thought at
school, but I know when I was atschool, like the and look, it's
probably a whole other subject,but teachers should be paid a
lot more, I guess.
Like so many of them are justhating their lives and, like our

(08:52):
kids, are getting sat in thoseclassrooms in front of people
that hate their lives and don'twant to be there.
So how do you think the kid'sever going to learn and be
passionate about things that thepeople that are sitting in
front of them will stand infront of them and tell them what
to do when they're passionate?

Speaker 1 (09:04):
I totally agree.
I think teachers should be someof the most highest paid people
around, because I've got twoyoung boys as well and their
education system in Australiahas failed like absolutely huge
failure.
They know it.
I think we just scored some ofthe lowest academic results ever
in the world.
We're not doing good and Ithink a lot of it's got to do

(09:26):
with that.
Like the teachers and stuff.
Like I know Not all teachers.
There are some, yeah, there aresome really good teachers, like
the teacher I had at tradecollege, the ones that are like
really take the time to get toknow you and understand you.
Like they're the guys that areworth like 300 grand, like and
if schools and the unions orhowever that stuff works, knew
that like yeah, we just needmore of those people, I suppose

(09:49):
that's how the world works,isn't it like the main doesn't
go to the right places, liketeachers, firefighters, police
officers, ambulance officerslike they definitely need to
even nurses, like I thoughtnurses would have come up after
covid, but they still haven'tmet no lesson.
Like you, you know they're thefirst line too.
So yeah, I think Australia andthe world needs to wake up to
some of that stuff.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah.
So yeah, what happened afterthat?
Like you finished your.
So when you do go to thosetrade schools like I've sent
some of my apprentices there,but that's part of my
apprenticeship sitting thereLike did you have an
apprenticeship or were those twoyears just just taken to sort
of working towards yourapprenticeship?

Speaker 1 (10:26):
no, so, um, yeah.
So when I got there, you couldhave gone there with an
apprenticeship for year 11.
I didn't have one.
Yet it was really tough in well, it was tough for me anyway, in
2010 or 11 or whatever year itwas, we couldn't find an
apprenticeship, um, but mystepdad he's a builder, like a
big commercial builder here inQueensland, so we couldn't find
one apprenticeship.
But my stepdad he's a builder,like a big commercial builder
here in Queensland, so wecouldn't find one.

(10:47):
And then dad I call him my dad,like he's been there since I
was about five, but went withhim, started with FKG Group and
did commercial stuff for about ayear and, like I soon realized,
commercial not really for me.
I just wanted to get intoresidential.
I wanted to wear in a cubra,wear a singlet, you know, just,

(11:09):
you know all that stuff.
Like I don't know.
That's why I got into it at thestart.
I want to be outside, um.
So I wasn't doing that oncommercial sites.
I was wearing hard hats, longs,had to work 12 hours a day.
I was like, no, that's not forme.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
So it is a um, it is a lifestyle thing.
Hey, being trading oh, I'mchippy.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
You gotta have cruiser cubra and a kelpie like
that's chippy, so yeah, but umand so how did you end up
getting an apprenticeship andstuff?
yeah, so started with dad.
They um, gave me thatapprenticeship, which was
awesome, like so thankful, andstill have very strong ties to
that organization and my stepdad.

(11:48):
And then, through one of thesubbies on one of those sites,
his dad was an architecturalbuilder and we sort of voiced my
concerns about wanting to gointo residential and that sort
of thing and then, yeah, itworked out.
So I left that company and thenwent to work with them and work
with them for about a year anda half so I was just about third

(12:09):
year or something like that um,and got real quiet, um, and
like last to come first to leavethat sort of stuff, four of us
four or five of us got laid off,um, but had good recommendation
and got in with another localbuilder that just lives around
the corner actually, um,finished my apprenticeship with
him and he was in that customarchitectural space and he was

(12:33):
awesome for me, like he's justjust a real genuine guy and
obviously we're all local andall that stuff really plays a
big part for me, um, so, yeah,finished my apprenticeship with
him and then started doing somesubbie work from there, like
after I was done.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
So, yeah, yeah, did you?
How long did you stay with yourboss once you'd finished your
time before you started subbinguh?

Speaker 1 (12:55):
it wasn't long because it got quiet for him too
and, um, like he sort of runshis company as chippy's, like
subbies and stuff like that,like not how, but have full-time
employees yeah um, so it wasn'tlong.
We're doing bits and drabs.
And then I was like I'll justfind some work, and yeah just
sort of happened like thatorganically, uh, which was fine.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
There's no skin off my nose, like you have to, uh,
you have to grow up quick, hey,when you get in the real world.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, subcontracting yeah, and I did learn quickly.
It's probably the next part ofthe story, but just worked for
some awful people Not like awfulpeople, but awfully run
businesses.
Nice guys like don't get mewrong, but shit show.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
You don't know what you don't know eh.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, that's right and I think if this, the
education that was around now,even back then, like it'd be a
different story because it wasthis guy like getting burnt, so
we're getting burnt and it'sjust everyone getting burnt so
yeah, and actually completelyleft the industry at that point
and um went drilling, did all ongas all around australia for
three years yeah, so how'd thatgo?

Speaker 2 (13:58):
I loved it.
Yeah, that's hard work, isn'tit?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:01):
yeah, yeah, there's, that's work ethic.
No one in brisbane can tell methey've ever worked hard until
they've done that.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's my new favourite show at the moment,
now that Yellowstone's finishedLandman, landman.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
That's what it's like .
Like on the rigs, yeah, that'swhat it's like.
Everyone's like, oh, you workin the mines.
I'm like, no, I don't, we dowith mines and there is no
policing and there's no rules.
It's yeah, it's a show.
So what was your role out there?
Like um, so I started.
So there's like six on a crew,so it's like lease hand, floor

(14:34):
hand, motorman, derrickman anddriller, and then you have your
day push and night push who arelike your rig managers and stuff
like that.
So I started out there as alease hand, um worked, did floor
hand, worked my way to motorsbefore I sort of come back to
chipping in.
But yeah, I thought I knew howto work and then I went out
there and a lot changed for mebecause everyone out there comes

(14:56):
from the school of hard knocks,like talking, like light
criminals.
You know stuff like that.
What's a light criminal?
Well, no, you wouldn't like Idon't know.
It's not murder, just otherstuff.
So they're hard dudes.
There's not a lot of sympathy.
There's no sympathy, empathy.
It was just yelling and a lotof running.

(15:18):
And you know it's 12-hour days,three weeks on, one week off,
like yeah, I did a lot of cryingat the age of 21, like, let's
put it that way, yeah it was.
It was tough.
It's everything I needed,though, I think, to grow up like
real quick and get a work ethicthat I have today.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, so it's tough at the time, isn't it?
Because when you're goingthrough that and you, you're
getting treated like a dog andyelled at and, yeah, pushed hard
, like at the time, you're likefuck this, this, like what am I
doing?
But yeah, we all need that, youneed to go.
We all need that at some pointin our life.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Like I'd call my mum, I'd calleveryone that would answer the
phone after work, like I do me12 hours.
I called mum yesterday.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
I called dad, called grandma, called my grandpa, then
back to mom.
That's how you're just a cycle.
I was like, hey, I'm struggling, like they're like no, just
stay at it.
I'm like, right, hey, yeah, so,yeah, um, but it's awesome that
you can talk about this mate,like oh yeah, this is a
conversation that need to be hadbecause, yeah, there's a lot of
people that are probably inthat situation right now in in
their job, that are wonderingwhether they should be pulling
the pin or might have somedepression and things.
There's a lot at the end of thetunnel for everybody.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, oh, a hundred percent.
Like it took.
It took a while.
Like it took me like maybe fourswings, um, cause the blokes
out there like they need tobreak you, like they, they I
think that's why they push youso hard, cause there's also
green in this.
Like they pushed me to myabsolute limits, where I was
like no, I'm going to quit.
And then the boys turned aroundand it was all good.

(16:53):
Like I become, I moved throughthe ranks very quickly because
of my driller, like he was thehardest on me but he also taught
me everything he knew and letme do roles above my roles and
stuff like that.
So I think once you prove tothem that you got the guts to do
it and you got to be prettysmart out there, like people

(17:13):
don't, drilling is different,it's petroleum engineering and
you got to guess what's going on6 000 meters below the ground
and you need to do it in aninstant, otherwise you kill your
whole crew and $50 millionworth of equipment.
So that's why they're on edgeand that's why they're so hard
on you.
So once you respect that andyou understand how dangerous it

(17:34):
is out there and that, I thinkyou learn to really think about
your team, like everyone aroundyou, like you can't just be
thinking with the fairies andstuff, like you need to be onto
it like all day, yeah.
So that's why I think peopleare on edge out there and are so
tough because they don't wantanyone getting hurt.
Yeah, and it is something whereyou can get really hurt out

(17:55):
there.
I've seen it.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Um, it was actually one of the reasons why I sort of
left, um, but yeah, it's stilllike shit, like you see on land
man, like that, like that shithappens.
Yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
That's called a blowout, Like what happens.
Um, but a lot of that runninggear.
Like you can't have sparks,can't have phones, can't have
torches, Like you gotta havespecial it's all special
equipment.
Um, that was on oil, like thatwas oil drilling.
We were doing gas drilling,which is way worse.
Um, Um, I've done oil stuff inSouth Australia but the gas
drilling is, yeah, really scary.

(18:26):
Um, it's more of the pressures,like so some of the wells that
we drill, like drilled, werelike over 20,000 PSI.
Like that will cut 40 mil steel, like that.
Like just the amount ofpressure.
So yeah, it's very dangerous.
You see, like we had flaretanks catching fire, like all
sorts of stuff.
If you ever seen DeepwaterHorizon?

(18:46):
I've seen that in real life.
Yeah, right, yeah, like thatstuff happens, like it's really
real and you grow up prettyquick when you see that.
Like not, you grow up, but youunderstand, like have a real
respect for the game.
It's a real way of how quickly,shit goes wrong.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, I think that's why they try to break everyone,
because it's like if you can'thandle the pressure from a
person, imagine handling thepressure from a blowout, and
your mate next to you is likedead and you still need to shut
in the well to save everyoneelse.
Like that's a very realscenario out there, holy shit.
Yeah, so I think that's whythey try to be hard on you.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, well, it makes sense.
Yeah, that's high risk.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, super, and they've got to snort all of us
out there.
I wouldn't do that yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
So what made you come back from that and get back in
the building?

Speaker 1 (19:36):
So I had a pretty close call, like real close,
similar to the movie DeepwaterHorizon, like a packer
underground failed and it's like, yeah, pressure came out.
Luckily it was on the otherside, because that's how we get
taught to like, take down aChristmas tree is what it's

(19:56):
called and yeah, it was on theother side and I was like it
shouldn't have happened whathappened, and we pretty much
nipped it back up.
I got down off the EWP, got inthe truck and drove to Toowoomba
Never went back.
Yeah, right, yeah so, and thenI was always doing cashies when
I was at home, so I always hadmy finger on the pulse, sort of

(20:18):
thing.
Saved a lot of money.
That's all I did was out there.
I got into stocks, got intocrypto, started reading huge
amounts of books, yeah, and thenwas able to start Limitless
with cash, obviously, and leadsand yeah, just come back pretty
much.
I worked for my previousemployee for a year just to get

(20:42):
my head around things againteams and jobs and stuff Because
at that point I never reallyhad a whole lot of
responsibility.
Did that for a year and thenwent back out subbing again and
yeah, all happened organicallyfrom there.
So, yeah, it's been a bit of awild ride, but yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, but look, I think it's really important for
people to share their stories.
There's always a backstory topeople and where they've come
from and how they've gottenthere and share their stories.
There's always a backstory topeople and where they've come
from and how they've gottenthere, and everyone just looks
at the like now yeah, whatyou've got, where you're at,
what you're doing, and no onesees.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
It's like that iceberg picture, like no one
sees the fucking huge lump, yeah, below the water yeah, 100%,
like yeah, you can never judge abook by their character or,
yeah, perceptions, everythingyou know.
Yeah, really respect it.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, 100%.
So you've got your builder'slicense.
Now, don't you, in a way, yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
So I suppose that's what's been tricky as of
recently.
So I went to get my builder'slicense for myself.
As usual, you get your low rise, but I did it about four weeks
after they changed the rules,and the new rules are you have
to have two years pay yg slipsas a site supervisor yeah, this

(21:54):
is in queensland, queensland,sorry, yeah, queensland.
Um, and you need to show thatyou are using like zero or myob
for the company you're workingfor, like which none of my boys
use it like.
My bookkeeper does that and Ido that.
So I'm like don't know howyou're supposed to get this
experience, um, and just thisbig criteria, which I thought
was crazy.
So I got denied regardless.
Um, even I had referrals fromarchitects, engineers, like

(22:17):
clients.
I had everything but that thingand got denied um.
And then so you got two optionsand qbscc will like flat out
tell you this is close, yourwhole company, shut it all down
and go work for someone, um,which wasn't an option for me.
So or you can pay a nomineesupervisor, they become your
nominee and you can build youlike you build, your company

(22:40):
gets a builder's license, so tospeak, or however it works so
how does that work?

Speaker 2 (22:44):
are you spreading the risk with them?

Speaker 1 (22:45):
obviously like yeah, yeah so it was like all the risk
is still on us, like thecompany, it's all my problem,
like still, if that makes sense.
So, and then I have to workunder him for two years just to
show that I have those pay slipsor whatever as a supervisor,
and then I get my license.
So I got another year and, yeah, I get my license.
But yeah, like it's gonna endup costing me like 140 grand to

(23:08):
get my license.
So, yeah, it's not ideal.
Yeah, still achieving it andlike it like I do get why qbc
are doing it.
Like I don't I'm not likepissing them on, and but because
there's a lot of builders outthere that probably shouldn't
have a license and there's stilldodgy ways of getting it.
Like, don't get me wrong, Ijust I thought if you're a guy

(23:29):
that cuts corners from the start, it's a flow on effect.
Yeah, and I didn't want to dothat.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
So I think it's like I say all the time like if it
had harder, but I think they goabout it the wrong way, I agree.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
I think getting a builder's license should be a
lot more respected for sure, andI get why they're.
I get that framework.
I think it was more that no oneknew.
It's not like they publiclyannounced it.
So I think that was probablythe hard bit, because everyone,
in everyone's mind, like you goon all the carpentry pages,
everyone's just trying to subby.
I'm like, well, do youunderstand that you're not going

(24:10):
to get your license?
Like, and they don't understandthat, and they're like, oh no,
there's a way.
I'm like there's not anymore,like it doesn't exist.
It's not people driving aroundthe sites and you give them five
grand and you get an openlicense, which used to happen,
and this just doesn't happenanymore.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah, I operate under a low-medium rise.
I don't have any ambitions fordoing high-rise and things, but
I did.
I did go and do all that Like Idid everything, did all the
study, I passed all the tests, Idid all the paperwork, just to
say that I had my open bills andliterally, like you like, went

(24:44):
finished the final exam, yeah,and they're like, oh, mate, you,
uh, you need to have two yearsproof that you've actually
worked on a high rise site.
I'm like, fuck, I'm not goingto business.
That's very profitable, makingme heaps of money.
I'm having a great lifestyleyeah just so I can say I've got
a fucking open ticket.
Yeah, yeah, and uh, yeah, so Ijust let it slide.
But yeah, obviously if I wantedto chase that work I would have

(25:05):
had to keep pushing.
But um, I think it's importantfor people to know, or like, if
they have ambitions to get to amedium rise or an open license.
Like, yeah, you do have tofollow a path now to be able to
do that in queensland anyway,I'm not so sure on other states.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
But you need to honestly like it's a 10-year
plan, because which is?

Speaker 2 (25:24):
good like it's like.
People need to get thatexperience yeah, kind of.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, I don't disagree with the um experience
whatsoever.
Like I think two years minimum.
Um, like I learn every day, youknow, like I learn every job,
like when the new products ornew architects, you know it's
all different.
So it's like it's.
It is tricky, and like even allyour numbers like you speak
about and just understandingprobably the core of your

(25:49):
business, I don't think a lot ofpeople like that's why so many
people get in trouble becausethey don't know all that stuff.
Yeah, especially when you'recoming from sub in, like you you
don't, you just don't reallyhave control of all that sort of
stuff yet.
So I think experience is betterand if your boss is sharing
that information with you too,like that's huge and you should
respect him a lot if he's happyto help you out.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think the building industry is going to go a long
way now.
There's a lot of builders thatare looking for improvement and
I think a lot of our issues thatwe've had in our industry
trades and builders like.
We're all taught by people thataren't taught to our to run a
business, so you just pick uptheir bad habits and before you
know it, you're on a shit show,just like they were.
Like, yeah, the um, and look,it's definitely not our industry

(26:33):
.
I think it's.
I think it's all industries.
Like, whether you're a chef oran accountant or fucking banker,
it doesn't really matter.
Like, yeah, people get into arole because they they're
focused on that role.
Yeah, no one tell teachersanything.
Like it should be taught atschool.
Like, yeah, yeah, businessshould be a subject and you
should be told that, no matterwhat you want to be in life, you

(26:54):
need to understand businessyeah, 100, and that's that's
like.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
That's like when you get promoted in any, I think,
probably their biggest ones,when you go from, like, leading
hand to foreman to supervisor orsomething it's like.
I think a lot of people forgetabout the human part of all that
, like the soft work.
Like, if you don't understandmanagement, if you don't
understand leadership, if youdon't understand like psychology

(27:18):
, like all this soft stuff, it'slike I'm not just paying you to
supervise, you need to like runyour crews, you need to
understand the people.
Like, and that all getsforgotten in construction, I
think.
Um, well, it's not.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
We're not taught to do that.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, we're not taught to do that, that's right.
And again, they're subjectsthat should be taught at school.
Yeah, yeah, and then it's.
It's like a big focus.
Mine now, like my biggest thingis my team, organizational
health and just the overallwell-being of everyone.
Like I'm really trying toprotect that at all costs, like
as I'm learning about leadershipnow, like I'm not a strong lead

(27:54):
up, I'm really trying to belike I'm.
I'm doing everything I can totry and learn about being a
better leader and teach my boysabout leadership too, cause it's
the same, they need the help aswell.
Cause what are you doing tobecome a better leader?
I read a lot.
I read heaps, um, I suppose,and just read or audible, both

(28:14):
read, write and audible.
So, yeah, usually audible andwrite and then read, write and
then, yeah, fly space.
I just do all that and justregurgitate and then try to
implement it in our like.
We have team meetings once amonth, so I go to like dinner,
I'll go go-karting or whateverthat stuff is, and I'll, um,
I'll do a book summary, like, soI just read, um Motive by John,

(28:35):
someone or something, I but,and then I did a book summary
and then just keynotes and we'lltalk about that next Wednesday
night at the pub and what Ithink, what they think about it.
Um, I send it to them.
I actually send it to mysubbies this time, which I got a
good response because part ofmy team.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
So how does your team take that?

Speaker 1 (28:53):
good.
Well, they're all learning itas well.
They're like, oh, I neverthought about that, like it was
a difference.
In this book I just read theytalk about the word, like the
acronym whatever, ceo.
Obviously everyone says chiefexecutive officer, but that's
wrong.
It should be chief executingofficer.
You're not supposed to behands-off like.
You're supposed to be managingthose smaller teams and that's
pretty much all your job.

(29:13):
It's like, yes, you need to knoweverything, but you also need
to have your finger on the pulseon all those smaller teams and
the leadership of all of that.
And that was just a big one forme, because I'm like it's still
my responsibility to knoweverything on site, whether it's
through the because I run twoteams and it's through those
leaders, like through theforeman.
Talk to the apprentice, youknow all that sort of stuff.

(29:34):
And then just having more likepeer-to-peer accountability it
shouldn't be the apprenticecomes to me and then I have to
go to them.
It should be why don't you justconfront them, have a chat
about it and then, you know,regurgitate it, something.
So that's like something we'refocusing on.
Yes, because I've got a goodteam now, but now we just need a
, just become a high performingteam how many is in your team?

(29:58):
Six, yeah, so just two teams ofthree plus me, my partner,
estimator and bookkeeper, stufflike that.
Yeah, yeah, patrick Lenciani,is that what it is?
Yeah, yeah, and now I'm readingthe Advantage same guy.
So, yeah, really really goodleadership books.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah, no, I'll to um check them out.
You need to check out, uhleadership eq mate for
leadership for the everydayleader.
Okay, she's.
Uh, she's only just around thecorner, mate.
I highly recommend helenrogerson.
Yeah, get her to come and dosome teamwork with your team.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
She is unbelievable, that's yeah, that's what I want
to do.
I want to do like corporatepsychology and understand each
other, like, and yeah, all thatthat soft work.
I know a lot of people are like, oh, that's not important, but
it is, man, like it's huge.
If you want to create a teamthat's going to go a long way, I
think it's pretty important,like it's my everything at the
moment.
Like, yes, you can like theskills and all that, yes, we can

(30:51):
all do that.
Like it's great.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
But I, the right people on the right bus in the
right seats is way moreimportant.
Well, mate, uh, this podcastshould be out before it, but, um
, I've managed to pull togetherthe the best event that the
construction industry has everseen in australia.
It's on the 30th of may thisyear.
Yeah, um, we can't.
I won't say too much more thanthat at the moment, but, um,
because I I know that, like forthis industry to to and break
its old habits, we've got tofocus on ourselves.

(31:22):
Yeah, so, yeah, we're going tobe covering it's going to be a
full day of full-on personaldevelopment with world-class
leaders in their fields, as wellas covering a lot of building
science and building biology,because I also believe that
that's a massive area that getsforgotten about or people don't
know enough about in ourindustry.
But I think it's incredible,like it's addictive, eh, like,

(31:44):
are you addicted to that 100%?

Speaker 1 (31:47):
I just honestly, like I read the motive and then
obviously got hooked on thatauthor.
Now, like I've downloadedhere's I'm doing Audible because
I've already spent too much onbooks but yeah, there's like six
other books now I'm just goingto read them all, I write about
it and then, yeah, send out allmy book summaries to like my dad
and everyone, the subbies andstuff and we just have chats

(32:09):
about it and just learn what wecan.
You know like I love it.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
That's a frigging awesome idea.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, I just think it's the only way forward, like
with you know, none of us havethat formal education like I
suppose not into psychology andstuff like that, but I think you
can still learn a lot frombooks.
Like all leaders are readers, Idon't care what people say, um,
I think it's massive like youhave to read and audible or
whatever.
But just that education afterschool is you should never start

(32:35):
.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
You should never start learning like ever I think
that's um grant cardone talksabout some stat in america and
it's like I'll get the numbersway wrong, but it's still.
Even if I exaggerate it still,it still means a lot like the
average person in america readslike 2.6 books a year or
something yeah the average ceoor leader reads like fucking 68

(32:59):
or some shit yeah 100%.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
I've read seven since news.
Yeah, I've read and listened,oh yeah, yeah, I think it's
important.
I know I'm pretty sure you're afan of Alex Lamosi.
I love him.
I've read, actually, grantCadone's books too, like the
Sales and all that sort of stuff.
I love that stuff.
But Alex is huge.
Like Alex is one of my.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
He has an incredible way of summarizing things.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, I'd love to be in his brain.
He just he's unapologetic aboutjust wanting to do business and
work hard and I really I thinkthat's why I, um, really like
his stuff is like hey, you don'thave to have a balance like
life.
If you love work, send it andthat's what I'm like.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Like people, yeah, everyone's like oh, you fucking
need this work life balance.
Like no, you know everyoneneeds to do what they are
comfortable with yeah 100 andlike.
Well, reality is if is, if youwant to be successful, and
whether success is.
Success means a lot of thingsto everyone, whether it means
how much money in your bankaccount or how much free time
you want to have with yourfamily.
Success, fucking, only comesfrom hard work and putting in

(34:12):
the time and the effort.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah, I think.
Yeah, all the woke ideas aroundbalanced life and all this
stuff, yeah, I think it's allfor lazy people, like for sure,
or if you're happy with nothingor whatever you want to do.
Like I'm not financially drivenor anything, I just I love the
work.
Like I think it's cool, like Ilove learning.
I knew where I was last yearand this year is completely

(34:34):
different and that's allself-taught, you know.
Like I think that's allself-taught, you know like I
think that's incredible everyceo reads 60 books per year yeah
, well, I wasn't far off.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
I said 60, 68, yeah a lot, yeah, sorry and that's uh,
like that says a lot, mate,because that's definitely been a
huge change in my life.
Like I never used to payattention to anything, I didn't
even read the newspaper oranything, and I still wouldn't
now read the newspaper.
But a massive turning point inmy life was getting starting to

(35:05):
well, I started to try and readbooks and I was just way too
slow.
And then I got audible and Ijust haven't looked back.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah, yeah, I think you like, you gotta.
It's like school over again.
You gotta learn how you learn.
You know like there's a lot ofpeople that don't have the
attention span for reading, andI do know what that feels like.
I can't read at any point inthe day.
I have to either read early,early morning, like 4 am, or
late at night.
I know I can't read during theday because I'm like oh, what
are the boys doing?

(35:31):
My mind does drift.
But Audible, because we drive somuch as builders is wonderful,
and then yeah you can just usethe app on your phone and record
your thoughts and then you caneither keep them there or write
them down and then just buildlittle biographies in your books
and checkpoints and go overthem and chat about them with

(35:51):
mates, family or business owners.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
I like books because for someone to take the time to
write a book, it means they'repassionate about it and they put
everything into it, yeah, sofor me it says a lot about it's
the subject, and it's well worthreading, like yeah because
someone's actually put theirheart and soul into it.
Yeah, um, it's not like, it'svery and and so I really like

(36:15):
going to seminars andconferences that people will be
there that I've listed theirbooks yeah, um, because I know
that they put a lot of effortand they're very passionate
about what they do.
Yeah, it's very differentsitting in a classroom with
someone that's just been paid tobe there for the day and tell
you the same shit that they'vefucking been printed out and
told to present.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
The system, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Like the system tells them what to do.
Yeah, um, so we'll, we'll keepmoving on a bit, but from that,
off the back of that, um, likeyou've done, coaching, yeah, I
think coaching is a no brainer,like everyone needs to be doing
it.
Yep, I totally agree.
What was your turning point to?
To realizing you need to getsome coaching?

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Um, like we sort of spoke about before the podcast.
I had a mentor which guided meup until that point.
So I got a coach, probablyseven months before I got my
license, just to, yeah, start tounderstand everything, because
I thought I had, I thought Iknew things.
And then I was like, talking tomy mentor about it, he's like,
oh, you should probably do somecoaching.

(37:14):
I was like, righto.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
So when explain to people what you call your mentor
?

Speaker 1 (37:20):
I'm like a friend.
So when explain to people whatyou call your mentor, like, um,
like a friend, like it wouldjust, you know, have coffee once
a month I'd have a lot ofquestions and he'd teach me and,
yeah, he was like he was.
He's a builder himself, likewhere I pretty much where I'd
love to be like he's just, yeah,I'll always be trailing him as
he goes up, um, and justlearning from him and what he
implements.
And then like, obviously, I trywhat my way and you know just

(37:41):
stuff like that mentorship sortof become a friendship.
And then, yeah, he, he was theone that sort of recommended
coaching.
I did coaching for that 12months and then that coaching
brand just got real stale andluckily spoke about and there's
just repetitive crap.
Um, I think you can take awaythe basics and then you can
pretty much take everything tothe next level yourself, but you

(38:04):
still like I still want anothercoach, I want to hunt for a new
coach.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
So what we talked about that a bit before and you
were saying that one of thedownfalls was they.
They weren't in the industry.
They're trying to teach.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
So, whether you want a mentor or a coach, like my
theory is like you, you have tobe working with someone.
That's where you want to be,yeah, and if they're not
actually physically doing it,yeah, then I call bullshit.
Yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Any, none of these guys, as far as I know, have
built there.
You know, like this, the thestructure of this um coaching
company was to have theirdepartments and to have like
their department heads, likesales, marketing, social media,
all that sort of stuff, numbers,and then they just have guys
there, but none of them arebuilders, they just work for

(38:50):
this company.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
What's your opinion, mate?
I think all traders andbuilders will agree with me.
If you haven't run a businessin the building industry, you
don't know what you're talkingabout.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
No no.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Unless you've done it day to day and you understand
the things that come up on adaily basis, the fires that have
to be dealt with, yeah, theconstant communication, the
constant rescheduling andchecking on people.
And yeah, like you, you can't.
It's very easy to sit in frontof people and say, oh, you need
to do this.
Yeah, um, and I find that likethat's where I struggle a little
bit with my training businessof life bill, because I don't
talk shit like I tell people howit is.

(39:28):
I'm not, I'm not perfect.
My business building businessstill has uh issues, but it's
how my mindset works and how Ideal with it and makes the
biggest difference yeah, 100it's all about.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
I think in construction is speed really
like just fixing problems orjust having solutions there all
the time, not getting maybe likedwelled down on issues and you
just need to deal with things ina fast manner and I know
clients love that.
Like we've had that, Like noneof my jobs have been like oh
yeah, just three stars, Likewe've had things.

(39:59):
But the clients like we're allfriends now, Like we still talk,
because they're all friendsLike now, like we still talk,
but cause they're like you, whena something arose, you dealt
with it fast.
Whether it was raining on aSunday and something got wet, I
was there, I was on the roof, Iwas doing everything and they
were always like you didn't haveto come.
I do.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Like you paid me to do it, us, yeah, um, so what
like?
But what was a apart from yourmentor saying how you need to
get a coach, like what?
At that point in time, what waslike, what were the things that
you thought you needed?

Speaker 1 (40:30):
help with mainly the numbers, I think.
Yeah, just understanding um,markups, net margins, even
whipper, like all all thosebasic stuff I had no idea about.
You know not, there wasn'ttracking anything, um, just,
yeah, pretty much anything to dowith accounting.
I'd had didn't really have agood idea about it.

(40:50):
Um, that's probably the biggestthing I learned from them.
The rest of it was just fluff,like, like, yeah, like, and that
was only three, um threesubjects.
So the rest of it was probablya waste of time for me.
Yeah, but yeah, it's justprobably understanding that.
And then all that did was Iwent and talked to more people
about it.
I didn't even talk to themabout it, I just went to my
account and I was like, hey, nowI've learned about this, what I

(41:11):
need to do, and justunderstanding, um, like, yeah,
cost of sales and just likelabor hours and just all that
sort of stuff.
And then understanding, like,the lag effect of invoicing and
just all that sort of stuff, andlike progress claims and
understanding probablyscheduling to suit all that,
like knowing when that money iscoming out or what people are

(41:34):
billing you and having the moneythere, and just all that sort
of stuff that has that cash flowbecause, like I've had cash
flow issues pretty much up untilnow, like just because it was
just all wrong, I suppose.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
You didn't know what you didn't know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
I'm still learning now and implementing new things
and always trying to get better.
But yeah, it was just all thenumber stuff I was just going
backwards.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
The biggest thing in our industry, mate, is you don't
know what you don't know.
Yeah, again, it's one of thosethings like I'm definitely
addicted to it now.
Like just every job, constantlyreviewing things where can we
improve, what can we do betternext time?
Like, what went wrong?
Where'd we lose money?
What, why'd that happen?
Did we underquote it?
Did we not give enoughinformation to the subbies?
Like, yeah, we not get enoughdocumentation at the beginning

(42:20):
of the job.
Like, yeah, just constantlyreviewing things, looking for, I
guess, black holes in thebusiness, looking for
profitability leaks.
Like, yeah, um, because we allhave them.
But again, it's, it's made,it's being aware.
Like that's what most people'sproblem people aren't aware of
what's actually going on,because they don't know yeah,
yeah, let's, yeah, totally agree.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
and, um, yeah, you get addicted to it now, like I'm
.
I love like back costing jobsand understanding labor hours
and how long it took them andyeah, just all that sort of
stuff and maybe new techniquesand new products.
And that guy is a bigdifference between using like a
hume cavity slider to like atornx cavity slider the hours
and you know that goes into it,or using this type of cladding

(43:01):
and all that and actuallyunderstanding all that and like
the time and the intricacy ofall of it, I suppose, and just
so you get the next job better,like you said, just get like
just a more efficient and moreefficient and I think like
project management softwarereally comes into that.
Stuff that I use is awesome.
I love it.

(43:22):
What are you using?
uh, wonder, build, yeah there'sa lot of people jumping on the
wonder build bandwagon yeah, Igot in like real early, so like
I talked to the developer allthe time.
Oh, hey, mate, can we uh sortthis out?
And he's like, yeah, right,I'll get the developers onto it.
So it's um, it's good, he'sthere from melbourne, so it's
pretty easy to use um, but it isgood to have someone like you
can just talk to about it.
And, uh, if it's pretty easy touse um, but it is good to have

(43:42):
someone like you can just talkto about it, and if it's a good
idea, and other builders aresaying the same stuff, like
they'll just change things tosuit, and there's lots of things
like that.
So over the last like seven,eight months it's been that's
getting better, and so it'sgetting better for us too, and I
I think it will sort of takethe charge.
You'll'll definitely outpace.
What's the one that everyoneuses?

(44:05):
There's a few out there.
Yeah, it's definitely gettinggood recommendations around the
place yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Sorry.
So, mate, what's the goals?
So you've done all yourcoaching.
You're sort of getting on topof things.
Are you structured in the waythat you forecast?
Have you got a one-year,three-year, five-year plan?
Yeah, I in the way that youforecast.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
So you've got a one-year, three-year, five-year
plan.
Yeah, I'd say so just really.
Like I said before, I just wantto focus on my team.
I want to get some of thoseyeah, that leadership and all
that sort of stuff really dialedbefore they maybe expand in the
next couple of years.
I want to get very proficientat what we do too.
Like I wouldn't say like we'vebeen in it for like five minutes

(44:43):
, like, don't get me wrong, I'mnot a lucky you guys.
Like I'm not the best builder,I'm not haven't been in the game
long enough to know the ins andouts of absolutely everything.
But I just want to get betterand like that's all I want for
the team.
I want to keep them together,um, like I protect them at all
costs, pretty much like I doanything to protect what I have.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Um how do you keep your workflow coming in, like
what are you doing for marketingand that sort of?

Speaker 1 (45:07):
thing, yeah, just marketing advertising.
So like, obviously, google ads,all the seo stuff, websites,
instagram, facebook, reels, um,do that constantly now, um, and
that's starting to work too,because I don't.
Word of mouth is great, butit's not how you get, it's not
how you have a constant workflowand be 12 months, 24 months, 36

(45:29):
months ahead.
Instagram is a new word ofmouth, mate.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, People are watching everything.
I had a client tell me todaylike we, the last two, we're
just getting out of the ground.
Like the last two weeks he'squite a busy person.
The last two weeks he's likelike oh no, it's all right,
we're driving past like we knowwhat's going on.
Like you're only, you're stilldigging a big hole, though yeah,
um, anyway, finally got intosight today and we had a really
good chat about the schedule andwhat's happening and we've just

(45:53):
finished the bulk earthworks,we're starting to do the pool
and everything.
And he's like man I like youexplained things so well in your
, in your stories on socialmedia like I don't need to come
to site.
Yeah, well, mate, don't get inthat mindset, because I want you
at site every day.
But he's like diane, it is sounreal, like how you do your
walkthroughs.
You talk about what's going onand he has um.
For me as a client, it justgives me peace of mind, like if

(46:15):
you're willing to put thatinformation out there and talk
about what you're doing, likethat just gives me confidence
that everything's going to becorrect.
So, yeah, I, I love socialmedia.
I think it's the most powerfulfree tool you could possibly get
for a business.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
So yeah, it is now for sure.
I totally agree.
We're really, yeah, trying to,um, get on the camera more.
It's something I need to do is,like educate, even though I
don't know everything, but youstill, like education is key.
Like you're helping potentialclients, chippies that might be
working around, like if you'redoing, if you've got a certain
detail, how you frame or docladding or concrete, or you

(46:50):
know tricks, like it's all, it'sall good, like people will
follow you If you know stuff, ifyou're very well educated and
that's something I do, wouldlove to get into.
I just probably need to getbetter in front of the camera I
know I tell everyone all thetime I don't.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Everyone says, oh, I hate my voice, I hate this, I
hate that.
But like, seriously, like Ithink everyone gets so caught up
on they.
They think they're doing it togain thousands or tens of
thousands of followers.
Like, does your business needtens of thousands of followers?
Oh no, no and this is the thinglike, honestly, you could have
a few hundred or a couple ofthousand quality followers that

(47:28):
actually are interested andengaged, yeah, and that will
keep your business flourishingfor years.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, I think you said it, that key word there
engaged.
It might not even be the personthat follows you.
They might follow you and thentheir friend might be like, oh,
I'm looking for a builder, buthey man, I watch this guy like
every week and that, yeah, ithappens organically, like that.
And that's why, yeah, we'redefinitely on a pursuit of
social media this year.
I probably haven't reallypushed it that hard before, but
now I do understand that youneed to have word of mouth and

(47:58):
like pushing through thoseavenues as well.
Pushing through those avenuesas well.
Obviously most builders get alot of their work through
architects and stuff like thatand that's all great.
But sometimes I went through itlast year where I was like, oh
crap, where's the next job?
And I'm like I don't want to,like, I don't want to experience
that again.
So that's why I'm spending themoney on marketing you can't be.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Um no, you, honestly, don't have to spend money no it
social instagram just put, putyourself there, talk about what
you do, talk about what you'repassionate about, because, yeah,
we talk about this a lot inlive life build like I believe
all marketing companies aredoing it very wrong.
Like you, um, for you to have asuccessful building business
that thrives on attracting theright types of clients, you have

(48:38):
to make a personal connection.
Yeah, so when you're on cameratalking about what you're
passionate about on site whetherit's a detail, whether it's
about a product you're using, orwhether you're just getting on
there and doing your job,updates and educating like
education is the key.
Yeah to um, for attracting theright types of clients, because

(49:00):
every client is different.
Like some people want a healthyhome, some people want a
sustainable home, some Somepeople want a sustainable home,
some people just want to knowthat their house is getting
built correctly.
Like our most successfulbuilders, our most successful
videos on our platform arealways the ones behind the
scenes.
Yeah, and I am adamant, likeI'll go toe to toe, I'll bet
money on it.
Like the builders out therethat own this show the flashy

(49:21):
shit, the nice fluffed uppillows and all the finished
photos are having the mostproblems.
Yeah, because they're settingan unclear expectation with the
people that are following them.
Yeah, our most engaged clients,our best clients, are the ones
that see, like we do the sitewalkthrough.
They see a little bit of messhere and there.
We talk about what's in thecavities of the walls before we
line them and and I I think alot of people's hide shit.

(49:45):
Yeah, um, whereas we just tellit how it is.
Yeah, and clients love it like.
Clients want to know thatyou're putting time and effort
into the shit that they can'tsee.
Yeah, yeah, um and yeah, as Isaid, I believe it attracts a
very different type of client?

Speaker 1 (50:00):
yeah for sure.
Yeah, I think they, theydefinitely they love all the
information.
I suppose it's like us withthat education we're hooked on
getting better and sort of.
I think sometimes they get likethat too, though okay, look at
these builders, are they really?
They're trying to be better andtrying to break all those, um,
like stigmas around us.
You know what I mean?
There's a lot out there.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

(50:21):
I think when they meet somedifferent ones like oh, yeah
they are truly, really trying tobreak all that and be better
and help everyone, where a lotof people don't think that we're
there to help them, I supposesometimes yeah, well, mate, look
the industry's got like decadesof just shit media and shit
coverage like everything.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Every story is a bad story like yeah I think that's
another powerful thing aboutinstagram.
Like you can put your own storyon there, you can tell people
how it really is and, yeah, um,people really relate to that.
Like, creating those personalconnections with clients is well
with your team, with yourclients, with your contractors.
Like, yeah, that's another bigpart of being a successful

(51:01):
business.
Yeah, yeah, um, you've got tomake it personal.
But, mate, what's um, likeyou're only a young fella, like
you're obviously putting a lotinto growing a successful
business.
Yeah, like, what's the chillout?

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Uh, not a lot of them are just hanging out for my two
young boys, um, but yeah, Ijust love being outside, whether
that's surfing, mountain bikingjust come back from snowboard
trip, like anything.
Is that uh that high rush, highadrenaline?
I race motocross my whole lifeLike.
I love being on the edge sortof thing, and that's a very

(51:35):
relaxing for me because it meansI can't think about anything
else.
So I'm on the edge, I'm likethat.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Yeah, well, let's go back to the ADHD thing.
I think so I'm on the edge.
I'm like, yeah, let's go backto the adhd thing.
I think that's um, I'm exactlythe same, like that.
The only time my, my brainswitches off is well, I've done
drag racing, I've done bloodycircuit racing, I've done
motocross.
Like that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
In that moment I do not think about anything else
and I I feel so refreshed afterthat, yeah, 100, yeah, 100,
because if you, if you do notconcentrate, like when I race
motocross, you have to thinkabout like two corners where the
people are, what gear you're in, like just so much goes into it
, like so much foresight, thereis absolutely no room Like.
And even like I took my boysgo-karting and I was just I

(52:19):
loved it.
I was in the zone Like I wasjust like I can't think, I'm
like trying to be that fast, mylines and just all that sort of
stuff.
I'm like I wish I couldreplicate that on a weekly basis
, but I obviously can't.
Mountain biking's okay, but Ican still think, so it's not
really cutting it at the moment.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Not going to fast stuff yet, yeah, so let's go
back to the ADHD thing Like you,to the adhd thing like you
brought it up very early in thispodcast, like what you, so you
haven't been diagnosed with it.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
No, no, I never bothered, but I suppose I think
it.
I think it's more common thannot really like.
It's pretty easy to spot, so Icop a lot of flack.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Every time I talk on the podcast about adhd and I say
, oh look, I'm confident of god,I've never been diagnosed.
People are fucking message meand go, oh fuck you.
Like you can't say you're goodif you haven't been diagnosed,
and like you don't know, youdon't understand it and all that
sort of shit.
But I've read about it yeah likeand I'm, I am 100 positive.
Like if I went and got tested,they would tell me you've got
that, you've got dyslexic.

(53:15):
Like you're dyslexic, I wouldhave a fucking list as long as
my arm.
Yeah, yeah, I choose to justuse it as my superpower, like I
know what works for me and, yeah, I run with that I think that's
why I like I never bothered.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
I thought about it for a while but I'm like I don't
want to take the pills or like,because I don't like all that
sort of stuff.
So I was like I'm living andI've lived fine, I've felt I
found my ways to do it.
But yeah, I'm, I agree.
Like I think I'm dyslexic too.
Like I'll see your phone numberor numbers and that and I'll
just say them completely wrong.
But I'll get all the numbersright and same with words.

(53:50):
Like sometimes I'll see themand they'll just be mixed and
when I type they're mixed, allthe right stuff just all over
the place.
And lucky I have ChatGPT and AIand all that sort of stuff to
help me out, because I'mterrible at all that sort of
stuff.
But yeah, I think, like yousaid, I used to when I was
running a crew and I was on theground as well.

(54:11):
Like you find that flow stateoh, that's your day.
Like when you're in that flowstate and you're pumping frames,
got the tunes or whateveryou're doing, like man, it's the
best feeling in the world andto try.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
I don't think people understand it, mate, like some
of my couple of my businesspartners just don't.
I know they just don't get it.
And I talk about it all thetime and they look at me like
I'm a dick and they tell me thatother industries deal with the
same shit and I'm like it'sdifferent yeah, oh yeah, I'd
agree.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Like you get in that zone, I suppose, and I don't
know, like framing is verycomplicated, but you, I don't
know you can really get into itonce, like if you got good
chippies too, like you'd go awhole day without talking if you
got good guys, you know, I mean, you really could, you could
test that no, it is like unreala when.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
So like the guy's cutting, the guy's setting out,
the guy's nailing and everyone'sjust flowing after each other
like the tunes cranking and yeah, just like everyone knows, when
the wall's nailed off and readyto stand up, the next one's
laid out like yeah.
And you look back at the end ofthe day like fuck, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
When yeah, when you got a good crew, like yeah, yeah
, unstoppable, like it, it'sreally it's.
It's one of the funnest things.
That's what you get hooked on.
If you love carpentry, lovethat.
I think, like framing wouldhave to be my favorite thing
because it is fast.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Just hearing air nail guns, yeah, I love it so, um,
yeah, but again back to the adhdthing.
Like, look, I don't know, I'llprobably get more bloody people
reaching out telling me I'm awanker.
But my personal opinion is, alot of people, rather than take

(55:50):
accountability andresponsibility for their life
they because to me, I actuallythink I would be this type of
person you become a victim, yeah, and so you go get the test and
like, yep, you've got it.
All of a sudden in yourmindset's changing yeah I've got
an excuse now, yeah, likesomething goes wrong.
I've got an excuse.
I can say I've got adhd.

(56:11):
Yeah, I can say I got dyslexic.
Like I'm dyslexic, yeah, um,and I, I truly believe a lot of
people that's how they livetheir life.
Yeah, like they get these tests, they get told they got things
and then all of a sudden thatthat is the excuse for I can't
do good in business.
I, I failed at this, I can'tmake enough money.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Like, yeah, I don't know what's your opinion.
I 100% agree.
Um, it's funny.
Before I went to japan, I talkedto my psychologist about this
because I was trying tounderstand why I don't have
empathy, just doesn't seem tooperate in my brain, and I asked
him I was like why?
I was like I don't like peoplethat don't think they're in

(56:49):
control of their own life.
I'm like I hate people thatthink they can't change their
thoughts like that, because youcan.
And I was asking thesequestions because I have people
around me that are like this andmy relationships aren't good
because I don't.
I don't understand them and Idon't understand why they think
they're victims when they canchange.
So this is a good topic becauseI believe and you know it's very

(57:12):
close to home for me becauseI'm dealing with, I've dealt
with it for probably four orfive years with very close
family and, um, I don't, yeah, Idon't get it like it's I
struggle with, and that's whyI'm trying to get help to
understand other people that dosee themselves as victims,
because I'm like I suppose likeyou, I'm just like, hey, I can
change my thoughts.
I can be sad right now and Ican also be happy right now.

(57:34):
I can.
Yeah, I think it's all energyand I think it's all thoughts
and, yeah, I 100% agree.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
It is so easy to be the victim.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Yeah, thoughts and yeah, I 100% agree.
Like it is so easy to be thevictim?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
yeah, it is, and I think in this world they support
it.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
As soon as you tell yourself you're the victim, yeah
, you literally have an excusefor everything yeah, let's say
yeah, 90% of the peoplesubscribe to that, you know,
like in the world, and but theyshouldn't.
Because you look at, like Ilove elon musk.
I don't really care what peoplethink of him, but he is a
dropout.
Like all of them are dropouts,they all have.
He has so many screws loose,but he's the smartest guy in the
world.
You know what I mean.
Like I don't know.

(58:07):
Same as bezo, same as likewarren buffett, same as all
these exponential dudes, likethey all have problems, like
einstein everybody on the planethas problems.
Yeah, einstein ever dropped outsuper early as well, and I don't
think you can actually get thatgood at stuff without ADD,
because you need to behyper-focused on things.
If you can't hyper-focuswithout like drugs, like Ritalin

(58:29):
and all that sort of stuff,like I don't know how you get
there because these guys arejust, they get so focused and
fixated.
Like everyone tells me, I havea very addictive personality and
I totally agree I'd be screwedif I went down the wrong route
in life, but I have one.
So everything I get interestedin I go all in or nothing.

(58:54):
I'm just not a guy that it'shalf in half out.
I'm all in or yeah, don't worryabout it, man like I think it's
an ADHD thing made up, I'm thesame.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Yeah, yeah, there's no cutting corners Like, yeah,
if you're interested insomething, you go.
Like you.
Yeah, I would say I've wasted alot of time of the year just
going down rapid aisles becauseall of a sudden I just get so
focused on something that I allof a sudden have an interest in.
But it's just like.

(59:26):
I think it's just getting Idon't know if we're more aware
of it these days or it isgetting more accepted, but I
feel like they, just as soon asthey put labels on things, it's
just, it gives everybody anexcuse.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Yeah, I talked to my grandma about this the other day
because she's like me, Isuppose, probably where I got it
from.
But you know, in the 50s noneof this crap existed.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
None of it was around .
Well, it was around.
It wasn't too long ago.
Yeah, we didn't have labels forit.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Yeah, and everyone was just fine.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
I don't know, it's probably an unpopular opinion,
but there's a bit more Like I dobelieve there's a lot of
chemicals in our foods anddrinks and things these days
that have definitely had amassive process, yeah, yeah, on,
uh, on our, our makeup ashumans.
Um, that's why my wife and Iare definitely on this journey

(01:00:12):
to live off the land and supportourselves and, um, be all
organic and that sort of thing.
But it's like I get sad aboutit, like because I, like you
touched on like I've got a lotof family members that just it's
victim.
Yeah, like I am the victim,like everything's hard, like I

(01:00:32):
can't start over again.
Oh, I can't do this, I can't dothat, I'll never have that.
I shouldn't.
Like why they got all that.
Like, yeah, I've heard that myentire life and, just like you,
it I get very angry about itbecause I'm like, I know, like
if you just do this.
You will be, you'll change, butyou um, you can lead a horse to

(01:00:53):
water.
You can't make it drink.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Nah, and yeah, that's .
I think that's what I'm, that'smy journey this year is to
really cause you can't give upon those like relationships, not
when they're that close.
So that's why I'm going downthat rabbit hole to try fix,
help myself understand otherpeople that don't have those
qualities.
There's nothing against anyone,because perception is

(01:01:15):
everything too.
You know.
Like, just because we see theworld this way doesn't mean the
next person sees this world thatway.
I think you have to have a lotof respect for that and that's
definitely something Iunderstand very well.
But I just want to help like Idon't.
I'm like life is so short, likeit is finite, you know, and I
just like don't waste your time,man, like that's where my

(01:01:37):
frustration comes from yeahbecause I see people just
wasting their lives yeah, I getsad before I get angry.
Like I'm like, I'm like man,like yeah, I was it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Yeah, makes me very sad and then I get angry about.
It's a bit cool to go and see apsychologist.
Yeah, it's like what um like,do you?
Only is that something you'vejust done recently, or have you
done?

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
it.
Yeah, literally, like a coupledays before I went to japan.
Um, like I'm fine, I don't needa psychologist, I just wanted
to talk to a professional and itwas.
He was a waste of my timebecause I knew everything he
said and I was like damn it, andit cost me a lot of money.
But yeah, you wouldn't haveknown if you didn't go.
Yeah, exactly, and that's whateveryone says, like you've got
to find someone and then so I'vebooked a whole bunch of

(01:02:25):
different people just to tryfind out the things, because,
yeah, there's like I read a lotof books and like reading
psychology books, but I don'tknow.
I think you need to hear itfrom someone.
I would like to hear it fromsomeone, but unfortunately, what
old mate was telling me, like Ialready knew, and it just
didn't really help me.
Um, but I am trying to findthose answers so I can be a
better brother and son and dadfor these.
Yeah, for people.
And yeah, that's why I'm goingdown that route, to try to be

(01:02:50):
better for them and understand,and because you can't just be
cutthroat, like not all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Yeah, yeah, no, I get it.
I get it.
It's been a 10, probably a10-year journey now that I've
been on, and even just thismorning actually, I had a bit of
a frustrating conversation withmy parents about some stuff
that's going on and it just likeman, like why do you do this?
yeah fuck like you could have anincredible retirement.
Why don't you like, yeah, justdo something different.

(01:03:14):
Yeah, it's hard.
Um well, mate, look, I reallyappreciate you coming on this
afternoon.
Uh, thanks for reaching out onInstagram.
Before we wrap it up, is thereany advice that you would give
people out there in the industrythat are either young people
wanting to get into it, someonethat might be struggling?

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
Yeah, probably, just don't be afraid to reach out.
Hey, like, if you talk to otherbuilders, heaps, like, I feel
like this new generation iscoming through and it's because
of people like yourself.
But look, I, I talk to everyone, like almost.
So we got to a point last yeara bit off context, but we were
slow on work and I messagedevery builder on my instagram,

(01:03:53):
said, hey, if you have smalljobs that you don't want to do
whatever and I did that and I'vemade so many friends from that
and we got rid of that quiettime because of that.
Um, there's a lot more peoplethat are willing to help you now
and understand that the marketshare in brisbane is huge, oh,
and everywhere else.
But, and everyone has the sameproblems, like, we're all the
same builders, like, and we'reall on different levels, yeah,

(01:04:14):
all the trades as well, probablythe trades big time as well,
because, like, they don't, Isuppose, like they need just as
much help as us.
And, um, I think, yeah, I thinkit's important for everyone to
just reach out and like,coaching's massive.
I know there's coaches forsubbies as well and obviously
business coaches, but then, yeah, builders, getting a coach,

(01:04:36):
getting a mentor, is massive,like it would save you millions.
A good mentor will save youmillions of dollars like 100 but
they'll make you lots ofmillions yeah exactly Like I've
definitely skipped some reallyhard stuff because of that.
Because you hear the stories,like, you know what I mean, Like
, and I've missed some of thatstuff, I think by just learning

(01:04:56):
about qualifying clients and youknow just all those little
things.
You just know, like, what'sthat.
So, yeah, reach out.
Your network is your net worth,so make it huge.
You know, like, be friends witheveryone.
Reach out to architects buyingcoffees, building designers,
engineers, everyone.
They're all interested inhaving friends, but some people
are just massive introverts.

(01:05:16):
So, yeah, I think it'simportant.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Man awesome advice, mate.
Well, look guys.
Important man uh, awesomeadvice mate.
Well, um, look guys.
I hope you've enjoyed this uhcracking episode of level up.
Um, look, stay tuned, we uhwell, actually, by the time this
podcast comes out, you willprobably know about it, but, uh,
the 30th of may this year, 2025, will be the best event that
the construction industry hasever seen in australia.
So, um, go to the dwayne pierce, the level up website and get

(01:05:42):
your tickets and and lookforward to seeing everybody
there.
It will be huge, so make sureyou get on board with that and,
yeah, as always, make sure youlike, subscribe, purchase our
merchandise and help support mymission to create a new building
industry.
Look forward to seeing you onthe next one.
Are you ready to build?

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
smarter, live better and enjoy life.
Then head over tolivelikebuildcom forward slash
elevate to get started.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
Everything discussed during the Level Up podcast with
me, dwayne Pearce, is basedsolely on my own personal
experiences and thoseexperiences of my guests.
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in

(01:06:38):
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.