The 1 Percenters to Become a Better Craftsman.

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Get rid of this old.
I think it's old-fashioned.
Like near enough is good enough.
Yep, there's too much of thatin the industry.
Like near enough is not goodenough.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Aiming for the one percenter.
You know, do one percenterbetter today than you did
yesterday?
Yeah, definitely, and I thinkthat if the industry took that
on board, we'd have a lot betterindustry.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yeah, oh, 100% G'day guys.
Welcome back to anothercracking episode of Level Up.
We are back with the Godfathertoday.
I've been looking forward tothis.
It's his fifth appearance onthe Level Up podcast and, yeah,
a big, warm welcome to CraigStewart from Stewart Homes and

(00:39):
Renovations.
How are you, mate?
I'm well.
Thanks, soyan.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thanks for having us back, and it's always a pleasure
to be here, mate.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh, mate, I love Craig and I've I don't know,
we've become a bit of arelationship.
We talk quite regularly, don'twe?
We chew the fat and talk aboutthings and Craig's always
reaching out and it's beenreally good.
But before we get into it toomuch, so we're putting on the
Level Up Experience.
So on the 30th of May this year, the Level Up Experience.

(01:06):
It is going to be the greatestevent that the construction
industry has ever seen inAustralia.
If you're a builder, a trader, adesigner, an architect, a
homeowner, anybody that isinterested in healthy homes,
building science, betterbusinesses, personal development
, you name it you can't affordto miss this event.
And actually the godfathersitting here is actually going

(01:26):
to be a part of the event thatday.
And after listening to thepodcast and what he's got to
offer today, you do not want tomiss it, especially if you're a
young, young tradie orapprentice.
So make sure you head across tothe duanepeircecom website to
make sure you secure yourtickets, because tickets are
limited.
Yeah, and can't wait to see youthere, but we'll get cracking

(01:46):
into this podcast, mate.
And uh, the reason we got craigback today, um, what was it?

Speaker 2 (01:52):
maybe the last one we did where we just talked about
some tips and hints and thingsduring the podcast and you just
got flooded with people reachingout to you for advice yeah, I
was really sort of taken back bythe amount of young guys that
reached out and there's still acouple of guys that reach out to
me now on different occasionsjust to ask questions or just
some advice and I was reallyhappy about that, because I

(02:13):
think that the youngergeneration are missing out on so
much it's not being taught tothem.
So that was sort of next levelfor me and I was, yeah, just a
bit taken back that there wasthat many people that were keen
and the response we got and yougot a massive amount as well,
which I thought was like nextlevel.
I thought that was great.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
There's still people who got some passion out there I
think it was like I got a lotout of it, because it was really
good to see that there's stillpeople coming into this industry
that are passionate about ityeah and not just worried about
going and smashing up a frame asquick as they can.
So I'm excited about todaybecause craig's actually put a
list together and, uh, Iactually think I'm going to
learn a lot as well.
But, um, mate, let's get intoit.

(02:49):
Like what, what do you got inthat book over there?
What are?

Speaker 2 (02:50):
we talking all right.
Well, it's probably a bitrandom the way I put it together
, but they're just as thingscome to my head.
I'll put some notes down andwe'll just put them as a topic
and then we'll start to talkabout them so, basically, it
doesn't, doesn't matter whattype of trader you are, that
you're going to learn somethingfrom this.
Yeah, a lot of this is basedaround carpentry, but other
things will come from it nodoubt as well.
So my first carver off the rankis carver random stones.

(03:12):
So it's just a stone that youbuy that we use for finishing
the edges of our fibro shooting.
So when you're cutting fibro alot of us cut these days sheets
is, you know, cut with dustlesscutters and all those sort of
things and you get that burr onthere.
So that burr edge it's going togo into your plastic molding
strips.
So the carburettum stone isjust like a similar to a oil

(03:34):
stone, rectangular size stone,but we're using that to put the
bevel back on there, put an arison it, you can straighten edges
with it and those sort ofthings.
So it just gives a nice edgethat you can work with it and
you're not fighting it whenyou're putting it back into your
H-moles and those sort ofthings.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
A lot of like.
I've never heard of it.
I was always taught in myapprenticeship you've got a bit
of Besser block or a bit ofbrick or something and you
rubbed your edges with that, buta lot of I would imagine a lot
of young carpenters evenplasterers, like people that are

(04:11):
working with billboard and fcsheets, aren't even doing
anything.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Uh, no, they wouldn't be.
So the proper random stone willwork, the same as a besser
block, the main one I've got inmy trailer.
I've probably had for over 30years and, like a besser block,
will wear it, doesn't?
it doesn't wear so where do youbuy them?
Um, just at your tool place orbunning sell them.
Yeah, never heard of it, andBuddy's actually made one now
that's got a handle on it wheremine is just like a rectangular
block basically.
Yeah, but my main one that I'vegot like I bought a couple of

(04:33):
others that the boys use andthey drop them and they get
cracked and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
But my main one I've had for over 30 years worn, has
been a bit worn.
It doesn't get different thanthe day I bought it.
Well, there you go, man.
I've learned something straightoff the bat.
But um, it's those littledetails in that that makes a
craftsman, because, like I seeit, with new, new carpenters
that we put on like they don't,they cut the sheets and they
don't even do anything with it.
That's right, at a bare minimum.
I was kicked in the ass duringmy apprenticeship, like at a
bare minimum.
You got your chisel out, youturned your chisel on the edge
and you put your thumb on it andyou dragged your chisel along
it and you took the edge off ityeah, that's right, you always
cleaned your edges before youput them into a joint well, it's

(05:10):
making the next step easier.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, so if you, if you cut it and it's all bird,
you're going to fight it,putting it into your h mold
where you beat us in joints.
So you're just trying to takethat bit of finesse and a bit of
care, but there's a reason forthat.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
So it makes it simpler to do the next stage of
it and, like you say, like thesedays you're seeing a lot of
people cutting it with bloodydust or saws or grinders, like
people cut it with a grind, thenjust smash the side off with a
grinder and a lot of time I knowlike I've been to quite a few
jobs and you can tell thatpeople have done it with a
grinder because they don't givea fuck, they they're rushing it,
they smash the grinder alongthe edge of it and the grinder's

(05:45):
gone too far, like wider thanthe joining strip.
When you look along the joiningstrip you see all these little
grooves from the grinder.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, and it shows up in the paint when it's painted.
Yeah, accentuates it.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, no mate.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Very good one Straight off the bat.
What about nailing soffitsheets or nailing fibro?
Uh, how many times you see itget nailed and the nails are
flush.
So if you actually read thejames hardy specification, the
back of the nail should be firmagainst the sheet.
But the head should be proud,because if you punch the head in
, potentially it can pop andcome down.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Well, as soon as you punch well, I think this is an
important one, like peopleshould be reading the
specifications and the installeddocuments of any fc product
they're using.
Yes, because some of them saythat you can punch them in, but
most of them say that, yeah,like you say, the back of the
nail, the underside of the nail,needs to be firm to the
sheeting.
Yep, but because as soon as youpunch that head in flush, most

(06:40):
like that's void your warranty.
That's correct, yeah, soanything ever goes wrong or the
sheet falls down or the clienthas a claim it's going to come
back to the builder?

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, 100%.
So, like you said, read thespecification.
But a lot of your externalcladdings and your soffits and
that the head stays proud.
Yeah, available in things thatgoes in, because obviously it's
going to get said or told orwhatever the case may be.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, yeah.
But I think with ones like this, it's important that tradies
understand this, because I'vehad it in my time where an
architect's been on site tellingme that they want the nails
punched in Yep, and I know, likeback in the day I was like
whatever, like if I don't dowhat you say, I don't get paid,

(07:21):
but these days I'm like man, I'mnot doing it.
That's right.
The specification says this iswhat has to happen, and so that
is what I.
If I don't do what you say, Idon't get paid, but these days
I'm like man, I'm not doing it.
The specification says this iswhat has to happen, and so that
is what I'm doing, so it's on menot on you?

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, 100%.
I know of a case.
It was about 10 years ago.
The builder put there was afailure on a cladding sheet on
the outside so they broughtJames Hardy out, they did the
inspection, everything else, andhe had too many nails and it
failed.
So he didn't get warrantybecause he'd put extra nails in.
Yeah, and I don't know what theextent was, whether it was five
or 20 extra nails, but there'sextra nails, yeah.
So he didn't get the warrantyon it and he had to foot the

(07:54):
builder.
I know he'd do all the work butreplace the sheets up as well.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, and I think this is an important part,
because a lot of contractorsdon't give a shit about this
sort of thing because they justknow that it's on the builder.
Yeah, but this is why it's soimportant for builders to be
reading specifications, notrelying on their contractors to
just do it correctly, because,yeah, if push comes to shove,
it's back on the builder and thebuilder will have to pay for it

(08:19):
?

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Oh, definitely, and just print off the install specs
and give it to your guys.
So we often do that on site.
Yeah, bring it up on the phone,tablet, whatever.
Go through it, read it together.
Yeah, and it's not just metelling them.
Then there's actually somethingto back it up.
This is what needs to be donethat way.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, we had a painter starting a job today.
It's our first job in four orfive years that we've used
linear board and four or fiveyears that we've used linear
board, and so most of ourcladdings are always hardwood
timbers or some sort of chamferboards or things.
So it's just common practicethat the the painter gaps
everything.
But you're actually not meantto get or yeah, there's no, we

(08:56):
rung the ref about and you'reactually not supposed to gap the
underside of a linear board.
Yeah, but it is in theirspecification that before the
wall's painted, you you can runyour eye over it and if there
are any boards that are wobblyor bowed, you can put pressure
on it with your palm and you canuse a stainless steel Seabrad
to pull it in and face fix it.
Yeah, so yeah, like I see somany jobs, like we just thought,

(09:18):
oh yeah, the paint is starting,it'll get the whole job.
But we thought, oh shit, webetter just check on that, right
.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
But um, yeah, you gotta read your specifications
and your install manuals soimportant.
Yeah, yeah, it doing the jobproperly, but you're covering
yourself as well.
Yeah, if there's a problem onit, you've done everything else,
but what?
The bus you're doing?

Speaker 1 (09:35):
yep, yeah, right all right, what's up next?

Speaker 2 (09:38):
um, the next one I've got down is nailing.
Safoot shoots not only only thenails but the actual action.
So many guys can't underhandnails and they can't get it out
of their wrists.
They're always trying to do theoverhand.
So that's another one that sortof gets me going a bit.
So it's just, I suppose,learning hammer techniques.
We have another thing that onthe job if I start coughing it

(10:02):
means that someone's chokingtheir hammer.
The boys know that.
They start looking aroundpretty quick because if you're
using your hammer, make it workfor you, don't you work for it?
And it's like I try and teachthe apprentices and stuff that
using the hammer, it comes fromthe elbow and it's a flick of
the wrist.
You see too many guys trying tonail out of their elbow and
they complain their elbow's sorebecause of the action they're

(10:23):
using.
Let the hammer do the work, letthe weight of it do the
dropping.
You shouldn't feel the weight ofyour hammer in your elbow.
No, no, but so many guys nailfrom their elbow so the elbow
bends but the flick is in thewrist and that looks after your
joints and everything else.
But yeah, that underhandnailing, a lot of guys just
can't get that.

(10:43):
It takes practice but it's somuch easier and quicker and if
you've got pine battens that area bit springy you can get a lot
more accurate and force in yourhit.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yep, I don't know if it's on your list there, mate,
but tying in with that, I can'tstand people that can't feed
nails through their fingers.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
That's further on my list about rolling nails.
Yeah, yeah, through theirfingers.
That's further on my list.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, about rolling nails yeah, yeah, like you
should be able to.
Yeah, like I got cane when Iwas an apprentice mate, like and
then.
But like we would I've talkedabout this a lot of time, it's
just me and my boss like wewould.
Uh, he would have generallyenough planks, like a lot of the
new homes we did with low setum 180, 242 meters.
So, like with the planks andthe and the um stools that we

(11:25):
had on the back of the ute, wecould pretty much always do half
the house.
So, like you would in the firstthing in the morning, like you
get all the gear out, you runyour stools, run your planks
around, yeah, put your levelsacross, flick your lines, get it
, get everything cut, get allyour framing done.
But and then, when it come tosoffit sheets, like we would
basically cut every sheet forthe side of the house, we would

(11:46):
go along the brickwork, mark thelengths of sheets, do a
storybook for all of our sheets,all the ins and outs around the
brickwork, all the vent sheetsabove windows, and then lay it
out.
And two of us would basicallystart at one corner of the house
and just go.
You put the sheet up.
Both of you would get a nail init, one guy would put the cover
strip on and while he's doingthat you would finish putting

(12:10):
the last three or four nails inthat sheet.
But you didn't look at anything.
Like you put your hand in yourpocket while you're still
looking up.
You picked up half a dozennails and while you're finishing
one nail off, you're rollingthe other nail in your fingers.
It's ready to go.
Go bang straight up.
Next nail's in, finish that.
Like you just went along, likeyou weren't even looking at your
hands or your pocket.
And I turn up to site now and,one nail at a time, put it up

(12:35):
yeah, next nail, next nail.
Yeah, like there's efficiencythere.
Like you do that all day, everyday.
Like fuck, you've lost a.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Like 30 minutes, lost a lot of time, yeah.
So another one was that, um, doa lot of hand drives, a lot of
thin frees, thick frees well,that's what I call them.
So you're 3.15, 3.75, yeah.
So you grab like a reasonableamount of handful and you look
at them and you just pull allthe ones that were heads down
and turn them over.
Yeah, so then you could justkeep rolling out of your hand
and before that nails finishbeing nailed, people wouldn't

(13:06):
even know what you're talkingabout.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Mate, the next one's in your hand, ready to go yeah,
yeah, we used the 3.15 bulletheads for every like, all of our
tack and all our temporarybracing on our frames, but when
you're up on the roof likethere's no, and I personally, I
still think it's quicker.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Well, we still do, yeah, so I call them thin threes
and thick threes.
Yeah, I've got oil containersin the trailer.
They've got the tops cut outand part of the handle's still
there, and then across the frontis 50 mil, so two inch thin
threes, thick threes, and thenit goes back into soffit nails,
connector nails and gun nailsand across the back is all the
gals.
Yeah, and we still do all ourbraces because you can pull them

(13:44):
back out.
You haven't got to drive themhome, you can pull them back out
easy.
And we're still doing trusses,tacking our trusses on, because
you've got three or four guysdoing trusses.
I know these days you've gotgas guns, battery guns.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
But I still think all your temporary bracing is
quicker doing it like that.
I think we've talked about thisyou have all your roof braces
marked with your, already tacked, with your nails in it, and
you'd lean them at certainpositions around the frame and
when you started standingtrusses you'd just grab those
braces, pull them up, smash anail in.
It was quick, it's nice andeasy.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
But even if you've got to make an adjustment,
you've got five mil, eight milnails sticking out.
You can pull it up.
You can pull it up, you canmove it, you can tap it back in
again.
Put a second one if you have to.
Yeah, as soon as you use a gun,you don't get it back very
easily and then you startdisturbing everything else.
Yep, so, yeah, we do a lot ofthat, yeah.
So while we're on this topic,another one of my pets hate is
people that pull gun nails aparthand drives but the people

(14:38):
don't even.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
And look, I'll put my hand up.
My business doesn't currentlybecause there's guys on all
different sites.
Well, I shouldn't say a coupleof my tradies do.
But when I was on the toolsfull time and all my
apprenticeship, all my subbingyears, like you said, you had
all your nails in the ute.
And the day you started theroof truss you went to the ute.

(14:59):
You got a pocket full ofthree-inch nails.
You had gun nails in one side,loose nails in the other side.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Clean your bag out for whatever task you're doing,
take the hand drives out, putthe soffit nails in, whatever
you need to do.
Yeah, see, another thing.
People don't realize, or theyprobably just don't care about
it, but a gun nail is what theycall a coagulator nail.
So it's got the glue on it, soit's designed to be shot quickly
with force.
So it glues the nail in becauseit's quite a thin nail and they
don't have any sort of ribs orstuff on them, so the glue
actually holds them in and theydon't hold as good if you hand

(15:30):
drive them to a hand-dried nailyou're right.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Well, there you go.
I learned something else andthat's why they called
coagulated.
Yeah, yeah, the um.
We've talked about this um.
So one of my jobs as anapprentice mate, my boss had an
empty bucket and like he wouldpick up, like when we're roofing
or whatever, like we'll denailembracers.
You'd, every nail you pulledout would go in your bag and at

(15:57):
the end of the day you'd emptyyour bag and you'd put all the
these nails into this bucket.
Yeah and yeah, it was on rainydays and shit.
That was one of my jobs, like Ihad to go through that bucket
and straighten all the nails out, yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
So yeah, I don't like pulling gun nails apart.
I'm like so the boys have gothand drives, yeah, and it takes
a while to get their mindset tochange because they're just so
used to doing it.
It's actually more expensivethan going and buying five kilos
of hand-dried nails.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, really good point.
Really good point.
Like I said, anyone listeningto this podcast, if you are
listening to these things aswe're going through them and you
want to know more information,or it's not making sense to you,
whatever, and you've gotquestions, make sure you reach
out to Craig or I, because it isreally really important that
these little skills don't getlost because that's what this is

(16:49):
about.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, if you want other people to learn from it,
from this, um might just triggera thought pattern or it might
be a different question, butthis might trigger something for
them.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah, I'm started yeah, don't just become a lazy
chippy that has a fuckingcordless gun hanging off your
belt and uses it for everything.
I can't stand it like there's atime and a place for everything
, like, yes, yeah, cordless gunshave their place, but it shits
me that people are using foreverything.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, well, sometimes it's sort of the point.
Why do they even have a hammer?
You know because because theyjust don't want to use it.
But you become a bettertradesman and craftsman if you
understand how to use your toolsproperly yeah, how they perform
, and use them how they're meantto be, then you become better.
At the end of the day, 100% andall right, mate, let's hear you
going.
What's next?
Okay, another little tip is umdifferent scenarios.

(17:35):
Let's say you're doing timberfascia and you're nailing your
miters together and you're using, you know, galvanized nails.
So when you go to put that nailin, I will turn the nail
backwards, hit the head in aboutthree mil, turn my nail over
and drive it in.
It does two things it takes thepoint off your nail,

(17:57):
countersinks the head so thatwhen you put it in it doesn't
split your timber.
And I use that in lots ofplaces.
When you've got a softer timberthat you're putting a hand,
drive through it and it preventsthe timber from splitting yeah,
so it's like a blunt now, likeit's like when you're doing
cypress.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
You use your blunt now so that split same sort of
thing yeah so there's lots ofplaces where you'll use that
method.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
but you're seeing sinking the head in because it's
usually looking really good.
You drive the last bit and thenyou get a split out of it and
that's because the head goinginto the timber and because the
nails got a point on it, it'smade that wedge all the way
through and the head's justenough to split the timber.
If you do it prior to starting,very rarely will you ever split
the timber.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, very good, learned something else.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
I like it.
Are you kidding?
Else I like it, okay.
Um, what else are we handling?
We're uh, we're jumping allover the place on some of my
lists here, but that's okay doyou want a pen mate?

Speaker 1 (18:49):
cross them out.
Make sure you don't missanything.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
You got some good ones on there, um I think we
talked about this once before,but, um, I've written it down
again folding wedges and this.
This came up recently becauseI've just put a a new guy on,
about four or five weeks ago,yeah, and asked him to cut me
some folding wedges.
It was a little bit stumped butI didn't go off, come back with
this wedge that was like 80 millong and about 40 mil to zero,

(19:12):
and so then I we went through itand talked about it.
But how important, uh, foldingwedges are when you're just
trying to you know door jams.
We were actually doing boxingon concrete, we put pegs in and
we needed to to it over, so wejust used the folding wedges
scenario for that.
But I think that that's so.
Run people through foldingwedges.
So a folding wedge is a long,thin wedge where there's two of

(19:33):
them that oppose each other.
So by putting them together,you're keeping the same parallel
thickness.
You're not just.
A wedge is one-sided and ittends to put a twist in it.
Where you do a folding wedge,it will push it across evenly
yeah, yeah, so you're cutting.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
I'd like to hear how you've done this.
But like I was taught um like,so fit outs we.
We cut all our own wedges likeI've never bought them.
But can you buy wedges now?
I think you can, can't?

Speaker 2 (19:59):
you can buy wedges in buckets I I know the makita
made some years ago.
They had a little teeth on themand then I stopped making them.
I don't know if you still getthem or not.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
So look, there's heaps of this one as well.
So if you're a carpenter outthere and you're doing internal
fit outs and you're not wedgingyour door jams, then you need to
fucking learn how to be acraftsman.
You should be going through andwedging everything and gluing
your wedges, but we did the same.
We used wedges for lots ofdifferent things decking, boxing

(20:29):
but the majority was alwaysdoing fit-out work.
That's where the biggestmajority is.
Yeah, but we would cut well, myboss, and actually this
definitely doesn't meetworkplace health and safety but
we would use either there'dalways be generally off cuts of
uh, pre-prime, like um fascia ordoor jam, um garage door jam

(20:53):
and that sort of material around, and we would cut it into like
200 mil lengths yep, and thenturn it around, um like, put the
grain to the back of the saw,stop against the fence yep, yeah
, and then use that to cut ourwedges.
So our wedges are generallyalways the boss used to want
them 200mm long.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
So you're cutting that right through.
Yeah, yeah, okay, so what issimilar?
But I'll have a longer bit oftimber and then cut the wedges
out, and then there's still aseries of wedges left behind,
and then turn it sideways andthen cut it through.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
yeah, so your hands further away from the saw so
you're, you're, that's why wewere using always wider bits of
fascia and stuff, because, like,if they're 230, whatever long,
like you could pretty much cuthalfway across it before you.
Oh, I said to me yeah, yeah,but yeah, that's how we would do
them, and then all we'd use um,like a lot of time we're doing
fit out, it'd be just out ofyour doorjamb material.

(21:44):
Yeah, can you explain again howyou're doing it?

Speaker 2 (21:50):
So I've got a long, let's just say I've got a bit of
timber that's 500mm long, yeah,push the end grain towards the
fence, yeah, oh.
And you're standing back behindit, yeah, yeah.
So then I'm, you know, cuttingthe wedges, but only every
second one comes out, yeah.
So then you turn it sideways,yeah, against the fence, and
then cut across it, yeah, andthen you've got the other half
of them, yeah, no, I get that.
Yeah, do that.
And then you might just cut 20mil off, so it's got a square

(22:11):
end again, yeah, and then you goagain, so you're just keeping
your hand further away from thesaw.
Yeah man so this is variablemate.
So when I was an apprentice andwent to um our TAFE, there was
10 in our class and they told usthat um seven of them

(22:32):
potentially would lose a finger.
Well, I'd like to say, to dateI still have all 10, but I do
know a couple of guys that havelost some.
Yeah, Not from work but yeah,that's right, yours is different
related, but yeah, so obviouslybeing conscious and keeping
further away from the saw, yeah,yeah, but wedges, like people,
just I don't.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
It's like we talk about all the time.
You got to know the why.
Yeah, most people just smashingit out and don't understand the
why.
Like, why are you puttingwedges in your door jams?

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Well, I think that's why are you putting wedges in
your door jams?
Well, I think that's why I Isaid folding wedges and not just
wedges, because the wedge youslide in the door jam and it's
really only packing at theoutside point.
When the folding wedge goes in,you know you're keeping a
parallel packer all the wayacross and you can bring it out
by tapping the two wedgestogether.
You can bring it out orreleasing and taking it back.
So there, you got full supportall the way across.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, and that's sort of why I thought I'd raise the
topic on a folding wedge yeah,because with your um, when
you're installing your doors,like you really should only be
putting the attack down the topand bottom, one in the middle,
and then using your wedges to toget it all perfectly straight,
shouldn't you?
And then, and then, once it'sperfectly straight, nail and
glue your wedges.
Yeah, yeah and Yep, and thencut the excess off.

(23:46):
Yeah, mm, yep.
So that was generally somethingwe would do.
On the first, one of the guyswould be installing the door
jams.
I'd cut all the wedges, givethem to him.
He would go around and installthem, smash them all in, glue
them, nail them and by the timeyou worked your way around the

(24:07):
house, you went and did all yourwindow architraves nine to ten.
The glue would have gone off alittle bit and then you'd have
to run around with a handsaw.
These days everyone's usingsaversaws or multi-tools.
You'd run around with a handsaw, you'd trim all the edges of
wedges off and then do yourarchitraves around your doors
and window or doors.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
I use thin frees to put them in place.
Yeah, so you put them in, younail them in.
You can leave 10 mil or sohanging out, put all your wedges
in and then that still givesyou the ability that they'll
hold from moving sideways, butit still slides in and out on
that nail.
Once the wedge is all set inposition, nail it home, punch it
off.
Yeah, probably old school thatyou guys want to just shoot it

(24:47):
on with a finish gun, but it'sstronger and gives the ability
that we can still adjust it abit throughout setting the door
up.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Well, we've, I was.
Up until recently it's alwaysbeen t-nails.
Yep, like I, I don't, um, and Iknow like apparently they're
not making t-nails anymore no,they're not which.
Um, I think it's terrible.
So, yeah, we we might have togo back to the thin threes,
because I don't believe afinishing nail is strong enough
to be holding a door jam.
No, it's like people are usingjust like brads.

(25:19):
Or some people use the thickergauge angle nails but you've got
a door flapping around thebreeze and just relying on those
bloody nails, like there's nota lot holding a door in.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
No, you've got to rely on when they slam.
You know it might not simply besomeone, do it, the window
could be open.
The door slams, you know, likehow's it going to stay in place,
start moving and those sort ofthings?
Yeah, so, talking about nailsand finish nails, we're doing a
job at the moment where we'vegot internal VJ just your
craftwood VJ, easy craft goingin.
Yeah, so when you read thespecs on that, you're supposed

(25:51):
to nog it at 700 mil centershorizontally.
So we just use a bit of pinebatten On your joins.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
No, no, or everywhere , everywhere, even if your studs
are 450 centers.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Correct, you're still supposed to nog horizontally
and glue it off.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
We glue it all.
I've never read the 450 centers, 700.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
700 centers horizontally, horizontally, yeah
, yeah, so you're supposed tonog it horizontally throughout
the shoot.
So we put that in with pinebatten.
So, as you know, trying toshoot pine batten with a framing
gun, it splits and goeseverywhere.
So we put that in with a finishgun.
And uh, the new guy I said tostart with recently he was doing
some and I went and had a lookat what he did and I think he

(26:33):
had, you know, two in the faceand one in the top, and I said
to him no, I want more nails.
And then when I broke it downto him and said to him well, if
you put one framing nail inthere, take the thickness of
that compared to the thicknessof your finish nail.
We need six or seven finishnails.
So put four in the top, four inthe face, three in the top.
Punch them in, because I justgot it and I could twist it and

(26:54):
just explain to him.
You know, was it just?
You don't know what, you don'tknow?
Yeah, but just sort of tellingmy logic behind it.
I'm happy to use a finish gun,but we need to compensate to get
enough amount of nail in therefor holding tower.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, but um, well, there you go.
I learned something else.
Well, I've never like we'vejust done recently.
I didn't read about the 700 milcenter, but um, like your prime
, like on external walls, yougot to prime the back of your vj
before you put it on yep like Iknow.
I'm sure there's a shitload ofchippies out there that aren't
doing that oh, they think thefront's prime bit of glue.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
We, we did a job 12 months ago.
We took on from somebody else.
We'd done work for this clientbefore.
They needed something donereally quick, quick and cheap,
and I'll explain to you later.
That doesn't go together.
And they didn't even put glueon them, they just put pins in
them.
We had to take them off andredo it.
And she was horrified becauseshe'd bought the material and we

(27:47):
had to strip it off and redo it.
And she was horrified becauseshe'd bought the material and we
had to strip it off and redo it.
And some got damaged and thosethings.
But there's virtually no glue,but a few dobs here and there.
Yeah, so yeah.
Once again, it comes back toinstallation specifications.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
You've got to read your specifications.
Like seriously, guys, if youwant to call yourself a tradie
or a craftsman, then you need todo this shit.
What else we got, mate?

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Another one I got on here while we're sort of talking
around doors is hinge positionsof internal doors, and I know a
lot of people these days makethem the same distance top and
bottom.
But this is the way I wastaught is that you come down 200
for the top hinge and you comeup 250 for the bottom, and it's
got to do with your peripheralvision.
So when you look at it, itlooks balanced.

(28:32):
If you actually see a door thatit's exactly the same distance
top and bottom, it actuallylooks out of balance.
I don't know, it's just apersonal thing, but that's just
something I was taught and Ijust instilled it in all my guys
and that's the way we do it,but it just, for some reason, it
looks better.
Yeah, there's nothing right orwrong about it.
That's how.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
I was taught 200 down , 250 up, but to be honest, I
didn't understand the reasoningfor it.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, it's got to do with when you're standing back
from the door and the vision ofthe top hinge and the bottom
hinge.
The way our eyes work, it looksright.
When you see one where theymake them exactly the same,
because a lot of these days it'sjust there's two under top and
bottom, yeah, Whenever I seethat, to me that just looks
totally wrong.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then, well, not enoughhinges, mate.
Like seems to go over 2100doors should instantly have
three hinges on it.
Yep, so many.
I hate walking through jobs.
And yeah, they haven't gotthree hinges on doors, it's just
come on, guys, what are youdoing?

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, once again, I don't know the why, the reason
behind it.
Yeah, sharpening chisels.
That's another one I've gotwritten down here.
Sharpening anything, mate,sharpening anything.
But there's a reason whythey're done on a grinder, a
bench grinder, and not afour-inch grinder.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Okay, that shits me when you see people sharpening
their chisels.
My team don't do it.
They uh couple.
My guys have, like actuallymine's in here somewhere in the
shed, the um, like you'veprobably got one.
What's the good brand?
Bloody, yeah, um.
Spinning wheels with the waterwheel?
Yeah, the water wheel, yeah,like a good one.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Six, six, seven hundred eight hundred bucks I
think mine's about 1100 bucks orsomething.
Yeah, yeah.
But I've got a bench grinder inthe back of my trailer that
swings out and then we just geta container and put water in it,
but it's all set up forsharpening chisels on the site.
As soon as I start sharpeningmy chisels, all my boys drop all
their chisels on the guard ofthe trailer.
But having a hollow groundchisel so that from your beveled

(30:25):
edge going up is hollowed, it'sthe way it brings the shavings
of the timber and it actuallyflows better.
Cutting the grain, when you'resharpening it straight on a
four-inch grinder you've got abevel on the end but it's flat,
it's on the same plane.
So it's really important to getthe hollow ground because it
makes them work better.
And then, depending on thetimber you're using, the softer

(30:56):
the timber and the the more openthe grain, the the pitch.
So, about 30 degrees, 33degrees is a good average.
But if you're doing, say, redcedar, you drop it down and and
make it flatter so that it cutsthrough the grain better and not
tear it.
Yeah, and then obviously, whenyou're honing a chisel like a
lot of guys just can't fathomhow that works the honing of
them.
Um, it changes by about threedegrees, yeah, um, so you've got
your, your main grind and thenthe little pitch on the end and

(31:16):
then stropping it.
So I'll actually strop a chiselin the palm of my hand.
I'll put a little bit of turpsin the palm of my hand and strop
it on that.
You can do it a bit of leather,but taking that burr off the
front and the back, thedifference that makes to be able
to cut timber nice and clean isincredible.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, this is the difference that makes in it well
, that's definitely a lost artmate, because it's throwaway
society people just like a lotof.
Unless you buy a really goodquality set of stanley chisels
or something like and pay goodmoney for them a lot of the
cheaper ones the metal's justshit.
Yeah, you can't sharpen them.
They're garbage.

(31:51):
That's right.
Like I've still got some of myoriginal chisel sets up there in
the leather bloody binder Inthe roll and they've been
sharpened that many times.
Some of the bloody main stemsare only like 20mm long.
Yeah, yeah, but it's goodquality steel.
But people just these daysdon't understand sharpening no

(32:11):
well see, I've got like two setsof chisels.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
I've got the set that my parents bought when I
started my apprenticeship whichI use only for fix out work.
That's all I get used for, yeah.
And then I've got another setwhich I use for general work and
obviously I've got a couplerunning my nail bag.
Um, but, yeah, keeping themsharp and if you doing them
properly it's a touch up, it'snot like a big grind all the
time, guys, just let them gountil they look like their body

(32:34):
serrated, yeah, and then ittakes ages to do them.
Um, so my oil stone doesn't getoil on it.
Yeah, I use turps.
Yeah, because turps evaporateswhere oil clogs up your stone.
So over a period of time youcan actually boil your stone in
a drum on a fire and clean allthe oil out of them yeah right
and reuse them, yeah.

(32:55):
So after time they get cloggedup and they don't work properly,
and so one of the reasons Ilike to use the turps is because
you've got to keep putting iton but you see it evaporating
away, so therefore your stonelasts a lot longer.
So my stone I've got was mygrandfather's when I started my
apprenticeship.
He gave it to me and I stilluse it today.
It's in my trailer and getsused all the time.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, if you look after it, all tools should last.
If you're paying good qualitymoney for good quality tools,
you should have them for a verylong time.
Yeah, but it shits me.
Mate with this throwaway world.
Like right through myapprenticeship and my
subcontracting days, uh, and inmy early days, my business, like
um, like I saw him, he waskevvy, like sharpen it.

(33:38):
Like he drove around a littleminibus yeah, all the all the
seats have been ripped out.
He had a bench down both sidesand like he, literally you'd
book him in, he'd rock up toyour site and you would
literally just dump all yourleather like your, your circular
saw blades yeah, so we I've gotmultiple of them, like
somewhere in the shed here,somewhere in the shipping
container.
But, um, like we had a pouchfor um circular saw blades, a

(34:01):
pouch for um drop saw blades yep, a pouch for hand saws, a pouch
for your chisels yep, like youwould literally dump this pile
of shit in this little minibusand then he would be on your job
site for whatever an hour, twohours, three hours, sharpening
all your tools, and that thatwould.
You'd get that.
We used to get that done,probably two, sometimes three

(34:24):
times a year, maybe yes, andthen the rest of the time was up
to us to do maintenance.
So, um, but like man, I gotkicked in the ass.
Like I was talking to my teamabout the other day, like when
we're doing our wall framing andundercutting our plates halfway
through so that when we get itfinished you're not hitting the
ground with a saw, and like,except for a couple of the older

(34:47):
ones, they're all laughing atme.
Like, oh, fuck it, we just usea saber saw.
Like, yeah, like we used to goaround and it taught you to hold
your handsaw level, not bumdown or toe down.
And yeah, um, but yeah, so manypeople these days just don't,
um, understand the importance ofmaintaining your tools.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Oh well, I've got another note further back.
Sharp tools work for you andthey're safer.
Where the blunt tool is harderto use and it's more dangerous,
oh, you know.
So if you talk, you know powersaws.
If you've got blunt blades,you're pushing that much harder.
Yeah, especially with a batterygear.
You're working your saw thatmuch harder so it doesn't last

(35:27):
as long, you don't get as good acut and you run more risk of
having an injury.
Yeah, because it might bind upor kick back, whereas if you
just change the blade, get asharp blade and put in it, and
because there's still peoplelike saw doctors around the
place they don't travel, butthere's still saw doctors.
You can drop saws off and getthem sharpened, yeah, but just
makes your life so much easier.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
The job better, looks after your tools longer yeah,
oh, mate, they and they're likethey'd sharpen them.
They replace tips that theyneed to replace and like drill
bits, like you sharpen all yourdrill bits.
Like, yeah, everything lasted,but these days people just throw
shit out.
Well, I haven't bought one fora while, but can you even buy a
good quality hand saw anymore?

(36:05):
Is it just all throwaway?

Speaker 2 (36:06):
shit.
Well, that's another note I'vegot in here so funny.
You say that.
So what?
In my all my saws and Iprobably run about 10 in the
trailer and I've got more in theshed one of those saws was
bought brand new when I was anapprentice and I've still got it
today.
I've had to replace the handleon it.
All my other saws have beenbought at either the markets or
secondhand stores.
Taking them home you know a bitof steel, wool, wet and dry,

(36:30):
whatever, cleaned them up,taking them to the saw doctor
and had them resharpened andrecut so you can actually
repoint a saw yeah, so you canchange it.
A good quality saw, a goodquality saw, yeah, spear and
Jackson Diston, you know allthose sort of things and like I
and I play a tune on my sawswhen I get to work and that's
how you can tell how good thesteel is in them, but just using

(36:53):
a good sharp saw.
We were doing some stuff theother day and the boys have got
these throwaway jobs and they'rereally short and I was
explaining to them and giving abit of a lesson to the new guy
about using a hand saw and Ijust said to him there's no way
I could do it because thestroke's too short.
And I just said to him there'sno way I could do it because the
stroke's too short.
And I was explaining to himabout the length of your stroke.
The longer you can make yourstroke, the less cuts you have
to make, the less you've got towork so hard and it does a

(37:17):
better job.
And because we were cuttingobtuse miters and the saw would
only cut so far and then we hadto cut the rest of it out and
trying to get their little sawto follow the line of the saw
blade and everything else.
And that's what I said to him.
I said just go and find a coupleof cheap ones and get them
cleaned up, because when you'reusing the saw, if you've got a
slightly rounded action, whenyou're cutting a lot of big

(37:38):
timbers, you're cleaning outyour saw dust I'll explain all
that to him and using as much asyour saw blade as possible
instead of doing those pitifulshort strokes all the time.
Yeah, yeah, and it just does abetter job, but it makes your
life so much easier.
Yeah, and once they understandwhy you're telling them that
stuff and they understand how itworks I didn't have a saw on
site that day, but I showed themthe other day and the penny

(37:59):
drops, yeah, and they see.
Yeah, I think those littledisposals are great for
plumbings.
Cutting PVC pipe, that's aboutit, that's what I think they're
good for.
Or gyprock.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Or gyprock, yeah, yeah, no, it's again.
I just to me it's not justabout doing a quality job.
Your tools are just.
Your tools are part of whatmakes you a tradesman or a
trader.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Tools are an extension of you, yeah, and I've
known for years.
You've got a new guy who'llcome and start with you.
All you've got to do is look athis tools.
If he's got to pull off histoolbox out to find the chisel
on the bottom of the toolbox,his work can't be any good
because he doesn't have thequality tools or he's not
looking after his tools.
And the other thing I look attoo is if they respect their
tools.
I respect my tools.

(38:41):
If they don't care packing upand there's a hole that's empty,
you know something's missing.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, where it's all higgledy-piggledy no, you're
throwing shit in bloody toolbox,you don't know where it is a A
week later like oh, where did Iuse that last?

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Whereas at the end of the day it's really quick and
easy.
Yeah, awesome mate.
Another little tip.
Getting back to drill bits, doyou know how to find the
accurate pitch of your drill bitwhen you sharpen it?
No, put two hexagonal nutstogether and the gap in the
middle, the V in the middle, is135 degrees, and that's what
your drill bit should besharpened at.

(39:28):
So obviously you taper it back.
You know your leading edge andeverything.
But the actual point of thepitch is you put two X-axis and
nuts together, put the drill bitin there.
That's spot on.
That's how you know you've gotthe right angle on both sides.
And how do you know that?
Oh no, some old bloke told meyears ago.
How do you know that?
Oh no, some old bloke told meyears ago.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
And so this old bloke's now telling other people
and it works, you've tried thatand that angle is good.
Cutting, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yep, yeah.
So you know, obviously, whenyou're doing steel, you know
heavy, thick steel.
You change it a bit or if it'sreally soft timbers, but
majority of your drill bits arejust going by, set off the shelf
, that's what they are.
Yeah, and they will work for99% of stuff that we're trying
to do.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Yeah, look, mate, there'll be so many tradies out
there these days that just don'thave a clue how to sharpen shit
, and as soon as it's blunt,they'd be throwing good tools,
good bits, in the bin.
Yeah, you can sharpen Mostdrill bits, even shitty ones,
you can sharpen.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
You can bring them back.
Yeah, we've been on jobs wherewe've broken them and then I'll
sharpen them for the boys.
Yeah, and that's a lot ofcutting back, but you can do it.
Yeah, because it's a good longbit and I broke 30mm off the end
of them.
Yeah, you start buying 12, 14mmbits.
They're not cheap.

(40:50):
Yep, no, very good.
Clogging rough sawn timbers.
So if you're building decks andyou've got rough sawn timber,
so clogging out your bearers andyour joists for getting
consistency of height, you wouldhave done that as an apprentice
.
We cut the bottoms out.
Yeah, so setting up your guideon your saw, set up the fence,
you know, if they're 150 milbeing rough sawn, they could be
anywhere from 148 to 152.

(41:11):
Yeah, so you just set it up at148 and do a little check on
each end so that when it goes inplace you've got a more
consistent even height right theway across and then when you
come to straighten them, it's alot easier to run a planer over
them.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
That's really so many people wouldn't know that, mate
, because lL shit just turns upon site these days and it's
pretty consistent.
But you should always bechecking the thicknesses of the
timber and if you're.
Well, my opinion is, if anystructure at all you're building
externally should be hardwoodCorrect, it definitely shouldn't
be used, even if they're LRSPtreated external grade.

(41:43):
My personal opinion is that youshould not be using it
externally, but use yourhardwood and, like you said,
hardwood is very rarely the samesize.
Yeah, that's right.
So I'm sure you're the same.
So we were always taught, likeyou're starting on the site, you
would split the pack and youwould quickly just run your
taper and you'd find thesmallest piece and yeah, from

(42:04):
that smallest piece that's whatyou'd work all your thicknesses
out.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah and yeah.
From that smallest piece,that's what you'd.
Work all your thicknesses out.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, yeah, so they all go in the same just makes it
so much easier to get itstraighter.
Less less planing, moreconsistent.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because mostpeople it shits me when you see
it, like I hate, like you seeall these things on instagram
where people finish a floorsystem, they slide the level
across it, but a few of them,you, you see them, they're just
flat out with the planer, likeplaning the tops off, like I
don't know.
I'm keen to hear your opinionon this.
I don't think you should beplaning the top, maybe a little

(42:34):
bit to take some bows out, yeah,but you should be checking your
timber for the, the, findingthe um narrowest board, yep, and
then housing, like, like yousaid, checking all your ends out
so that where it sits on thebear, it's taken out of the
bottom, not out of the top.
Yeah, that's right.
I agree with that totally yeah,yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
So really the the straightening or the planning of
the top is to take a few littlehumps out that are between your
, your bearer points.
Yeah, um, this deck we didrecently we actually had um
three points, so pole plate ofthe wall, middle bearer, outside
bearer.
So the middle is a little bitmore difficult, but mark it all
out, you know, yeah, run one oneach end, run a string line

(43:12):
through so we can measure allthe middles and then check them
all out to suit.
But we had to um cog some lvl'srecently on a job.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, because they had too much variance in them
yeah, right, well, it pays tocheck everything, I guess,
doesn't it?
Yeah, my, like I was.
I don't know if it's right orwrong, but, um, my boss was
always of the opinion that youshouldn't be playing in the tops
off your timber, because assoon as you're playing the tops
off your timber, you're exposingit to moisture and like if
especially if it's a treatedhardwood like you're taking all

(43:39):
that treatment off the top whereit's where it's most important.
So that treatment should be ontop, like obviously these days
you're using uh deck protectorsand those types of things, but
to me, to keep that treatmentlayer on top is is really
important well it is on hardwood, especially because it only
goes in a couple of mil.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, and if you're not cogging it out to to keep it
the same plane, and you'replanning three, four, five mil
out of it, you've lost all youryour treatment.
Yeah, and then if you are doingthat, and even your cut ends,
you should be reapp all yourtreatment.
Yeah, and then if you are doingthat and even your cut ends,
you should be reapplying yourtreatment back on.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, like for sure.
Well, that definitely doesn'thappen all the time, but like
you should have those cans ofspray and you shouldn't do it
Like again reading the installguys, like all cut ends, plain
timber, like you should bereapplying yeah that's what we
try and do and, as you said,there's the odd time it doesn't
get through, but then 99% of thetime, if we're doing external,
it's getting some sort of paintPrimer.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, a primer on it, whether that be a clear product
or a paint product.
Yeah, so probably on that note.
So we use oil-based primer for99% of everything we do
externally.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Even on your pre-primed pines, balustrades
and things.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
That's a topic we'll touch on in a minute.
That's another one.
Yeah, so for the oil-basedprimer it's always a two-coat
system.
Our first coat will have about5% turps, 7% turps in the first
coat.
So it gets a light sand or anaris or whatever it needs to
have on it.
That gets applied, so the turpsactually makes it draw and

(45:15):
penetrate into the timber.
So now your paint is actuallytrapped in the grain and not on
top of it.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
That's old school.
We do that on all of our jobs.
Most people would not have aclue.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
They're just opening the tin of paint and slapping it
on and then it might get alight sand because it'll all
furze up and everything else youknow off that first coat and
then the next coat that goes onis straight oil base.
Now, depending on the Talk toyour rep, Read your.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yeah, definitely, that is old school.
We still do it on most of ourstuff, but I know that well, we
have spoken to some reps andthey're like, no, you shouldn't
be putting the turps in it.
But it works.
If you don't put turps in it itdoes not sink in, especially
the hardwood.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Well, here's a good example.
It was about four years ago.
We did a job where we put a bigdeck on the back, had 140
square Merville posts.
They were painted, had a bigsandwich panel roof over the top
.
During the construction theposts started to split the
laminations so it was opening up.

(46:20):
So I spoke to my timber rep andthen the ITW rep, where the
posts come from, came to site.
The deck was about a meter offthe ground.
The first thing he did was puthis head under the deck to look
at the end grain of the post.
Because we'd painted all thechecks and the end grain, They'd
all had the two coat system ofthe way we did the oil based

(46:43):
primer and they already hadtheir first coat of top coat on
there.
And because we'd done thatsystem, we got full warranty on
those posts.
And he said to me if you hadn'thave done that?
And I explained to him abouthow I'd done the turps with the
oil base and everything else andhe was rapt, he was impressed.
He said, yeah, we can't faultyour system, that you've done.
And so we got warranty on theposts.

(47:05):
If it wasn't for that or thatend grain or that check hadn't
been painted.
We were getting zilch, yeah,and that was the first thing you
did.
We just looked at the end ofthat post to see whether it was
sucking moisture up in thebottom of the post or not yeah,
well, again, a lot of peopledon't prime shit like.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
They just think that they don't understand the why.
Like um, you've got to keepmoisture out of timber yeah but
you, you might have it in theresomewhere else.
But another trick of yours isyou wrap your post with plastic,
don't you?
With Glad Wrap.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah, yeah, explain that one.
So the reason behind it is itholds the moisture so it builds
like a little ecosystem.
So we'll do our post.
We'll prime them, give them asand, put them up, put the beams
in whatever we've got to do andthen just go to Coles and buy a
100-meter roller, glad wrap andstart at the top and fully wrap
them up, or start at the bottomto work your way up and wrap

(47:53):
them up.
And what it does is on certaindays you'll see, there's a
little bit of humidity in there,so it reduces the shrinking and
cracking, especially on poststhat are pointing towards the
afternoon sun, because you'rekeeping the moisture in there
and they shrink at a slower ratebecause of the moisture
consistency and we get greatresults out of it.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yeah, Just a shitload of plastic that goes back in
the garbage.
Well, unfortunately, yeah.
But timber is a funny one.
You've got to look after itbecause it does get affected a
lot by humidity, moisture in theair.
Well, it's a living, breathingproduct.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah, we might have it as a bit of timber, but as a
tree.
So it still has movement.
And that's something thatyou've got to understand is that
even though you've cut it downand milled it, it still will
expand and contract.
So you're trying to work on theparameters and minimize how
much movement you have.
So the more you can seal it andmake it hold its, retain its
moisture and all those sort ofthings, the better off it is.

(48:48):
Yeah, definitely so.
Pre-primed timbers yeah, sowhat's your take on a piece of
pre-primed timber?
So the priming on the timber,what's it for?

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Look, I'm not a fan of pre-primed timber, but we
have to use it.
These days, in a lot ofscenarios, like you're beating
on your soffits and a lot ofyour decking, handrails and
those types of things, there isdefinitely a lot of areas.
I refuse to use it.
We pay extra for hardwood.
I won't use a pre-primed timberpost.

(49:24):
No, me either.
Well, look, I don't know a lotabout it.
The little bit I know is thatit's really only a temporary
product.
It's only there to protect thetimber until it gets to site and
then it's up to us to make surewe prime it again.
Correct.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
So your pre-primed timber is transport primer?
Yeah, so it's to retain thetimber's moisture from
manufacturer until it gets tosite.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
So not only should you cut it and prime your ends,
but you should sand the timberand prime it again yeah, I've
had arguments with painters mate, that try and tell me that they
need two coats because it'sit's already primed me too.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Me too, yeah, but it's a, it's a transport primer.
That's purely what it's for.
Yeah, it's to hold the timberstable until you get it to
utilize it.
So we will give it a light sand, depending on the size of the
job.
What we're doing, the paintermight come in and do it, or we
might do it ourself, but bareminimum.
Let's just say we're doing ahand roller that's got pickets
in it.
The ends and the bottoms willall be done so that they could

(50:25):
then do the rest of it from thatpoint on.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Yeah, 100%, we do the same thing.
And priming is something thatI'm on my team's back all the
time, like I tell them like, putit on thick, like when you're
putting paint on end grain.
I don't want to turn up to siteand still be able to see the
end grain.
And if you've got to hit yourbrush on the sides and knock the

(50:47):
runs off, then so be it.
But yep, um, and if you have to, before you go and nail it into
the handrail, give it anotherhit, but you cannot get enough
primer on the end grain.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
No, so as end grain, in that case we might do three
coats.
Yeah, you know, two coats aremost things, but that's the
thing would get three coats.
Yeah, as you said, it needs tobe sealed and I don't know how
many times you get called to goand do a job somewhere and
someone's handrail it's gotnormal bright finish nails in
the pickets and no paint.
And the people are like, oh,this cost us $10,000 five years

(51:19):
ago and it's you know, can yourepair it?
And it's like, no, I can'trepair it, you've got to take it
out and redo it.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
And you feel for them but it's just because someone
you poke it with your finger andyour finger goes through it.
Yeah, it's all rotted out andeverything else.
So another one with thepre-primed is.
I'm assuming a lot of peopleprobably won't know this one.
But if the house is gettingpainted what the company classes
a dark color and this, well, itdoesn't just apply to pre-prime

(51:47):
, it applies to a lot of front,like external doors, now timber
doors and windows, but youactually have to use a different
primer.
But if you're painting a houseof dark colour and you're using
pre-prime timber for anything,even cover buttons over FC
sheeting, they actually have tobe primed with a heat-reducing

(52:07):
primer before you apply your,your normal primer and your
other coats of paint and you canalso get heat reducing paint in
those dark colors now too yeah,yeah, like they'll.
uh, if like and again, I don'teven know how we come across
this one like it's a lot likefive, six years ago, but uh,
actually I think it might havebeen my suit was a todd um was

(52:27):
reading the specs and bought itup and we had a discussion with
the painter and now it's becomea stand in all our jobs.
But yeah, there was somethingin the fine print that, yeah, if
there's ever a warranty claimon pre-primed timbers and they
come out and it's painted a darkcolor and you can't prove that
you've followed their primingprocess, there's no warranty on

(52:48):
it.
That and you can't prove thatyou've followed their priming
process.
Yeah, there's no warning on it.
No, that's right.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Yeah, there's a lot to know.
Yeah, there's a lot to know.
Yeah, definitely.
So this one probably goes backto before we had compound
mitersaws.
You know, just got the oldMakita drop saw but when you're
doing a lot of things but youknow, skirting or even moldings
and stuff, and you wanted to getthat little undercut so your

(53:13):
miter might go together, butit's touching at the back and
not the front, so just layingyour your pencil on the on the
saw bench, yeah, you know, justto be able to elevate that
little bit, yeah, and then justsort of be able to get a bit of
an undercut on it.
So, even though we've gotcompounding miter saws, I still
do that because it's probably ahabit, but it's just, it's quick
and easy just to get thatlittle bit of a taper back on
your cut lines I'll uh, put myhand up, mate, like I haven't.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Well, the fit out on the current house we're living
in two years ago is the last umfit out I've done, but, and I
still did it then.
But I was always taught thatyou do.
You undercut your miters onyour skirtings and things like
yeah, yeah, especially where youum like not so much on a big
wall but like you get around akitchen area or little nibs
where the plasters are featheredthe corners out a little bit

(53:53):
and you're you're blowing it outlike your corner is not a true
90 degrees.
Yep, so yeah, always you mightcut one at 45, but the other one
might be cut.
It could be anything, might be43, might be 46, but yeah, you
cut them so they're tight.
You don't just cut them at 45and the front's opened up and oh
well, fuck, I cut it at 45.
That's what it is.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
You adjust your miter to make sure all your joints
are tight and go back to the sawif you have to and make the
adjustment and put the glue inthere.
Yeah, so talking about skirtingand other places, I do it too,
but generally anywhere that'ssort of that finished timber.
I know we don't do much timberfascia these days, but this
little bit happens on that miter.
So we talked the last timeabout arising timber, why we

(54:34):
arise it so the paint sticks.
So on your skirting it comestogether.
You've got a sharp miter, soI'll use the flat of my chisel
out of my nail bag and put itagainst the corner and tap it
with my hammer and roll itaround and actually put a little
rounded edge on the mitre ofeverything.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah, you want to get that same little bevel that you
have on a bit of DAR.
Yes, I was the same.
That was literally the lastthing you'd do.
You'd finish the fit out, cleanthe job out, sweep it all out
and then you'd run around thehouse with your chisel, tapping
it on the skirting, taking allyour sharp edges off.
Take, tapping it on theskirting, taking all your sharp
edges off, take all the sharpedges off.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
It doesn't break as easy.
It paints better, yeah, andit's just a little trick and it
doesn't take long.
But you can also sort of closethose miters a little bit if you
need to as well.
Yeah, you know, you might havea little fine line there.
It'll bring them back together,tighten them up.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Yeah, like I don't know if I'm just a very
particular person, but they'rethe little things that I believe
finish a job off.
It shits me when you walkaround a job and you can, like a
lot of people, think that painthides things or paint will fix
it, paint will finish it.
Your joints should be in yourtimber.
Work should be as if.
My personal opinion is thateverything should be getting

(55:46):
done as if it's not gettingpainted, as if it's been stained
.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and youshould be aiming for perfection.
Yeah, don't be expecting thatthe paint is going to come along
and gap things, bog things,patch things.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
I think, unfortunately, we have this
attitude that she'll be right,the plaster will fix it, she'll
be right.
The painter will fix it, she'llbe right.
Painter will fix it, she'll beright.
The next, the tiler will fix it.
I had this discussion with um,a guy, yesterday.

(56:18):
He's an ex-tiler and we'retalking about frames and now I
say to my team our frames willbe covered, but they'll be seen
by the electrician, the plumber,um, your leading guys for any
communication, your aircon, allthose guys see your frames.
Owners will see you any fewtimes when they walk through.
When the house is finished, noone sees it.
But you want to be able tosleep well at night and have
pride in what you've done.
But those guys that have seenit will talk and they will say,

(56:39):
oh, don't use those guys becausewe were there doing a roughing
and the noggins were falling out.
Yeah, so have the pride in thatjob, yeah it shits me, mate.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
I saw an Instagram story the other day on a young
fellow that I've had a littlebit to do with and he was
commenting on another video thatsomeone else had posted about
some work an apprentice had doneand there was some nogs that
were a bit chipped and weren'tstraight and twisted and shit.
And his comment was oh, she'llbe right, that's all covered in
plaster, no one sees it.
And twisted and shit.
And his comment was oh, she'llbe right, that's all covered in

(57:08):
plaster, no one sees it.
To me, that comment completelychanged my view on that person.
Yeah definitely, because that'snot look your job.
If you want to be classed andconsidered as a quality
tradesman or a craftsman, youfinish your framework as if it's
going to be on show everysingle day.

(57:30):
Yeah definitely.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
And if you go back to our grandfathers who were
building Queenslanders, who onlylined on the inside all their
frames, their braces, checked in, their window sills, their
window heads, you know, allmortised and tented in.
It was all seen.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
I tell my team mate I don't give a fuck if it's
hidden by cladding, plaster,whatever.
I do not want someone cominginto this house in 20 years'
time and doing a renovation andsaying, look at these fucking
dodgy builders, yeah but that'smy theory on it.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
I'm the same, I'm the same.
Just leave it how you do it.
Do as you would in your ownhouse.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
You know, try and instill that in my boys.
But yeah, no, it's important, Ithink.
Yeah, this is a little one,probably a bit of a bone of
contention between people, buttying off string lines, I'm not
big on the six half hitches thatthey put in the body into the
lines, and I believe this is myview.

(58:26):
If you, I was taught it wasseven twists, so double your
line over and do basically seventwists in your string line.
If you put it on your nail, putas much tension on it as you
want, pull it back tight.
If you roll the line up andhang the line on it, it
shouldn't come undone, andthat's what I do all the time.
Yeah, because when you go toundo it, you just pull the line

(58:46):
the opposite direction.
It slides off.
Yeah, and I just think it's anart that's being lost because
I'm trying to pull lines downand someone's put six half
inches and they've gone underand over and under and over and
you end up pulling the bloodynail out because you can't get
it off.
It's a simple thing.
I'm the same.
Maybe I'm a bit pedantic aboutit, but I think that if you
teach the guys to do themproperly, there shouldn't be a
problem.
It relies on friction.

(59:07):
That's how I was taught, and wenever did half hitches.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Well, I never did a half hitch either and I actually
had the bag on.
Last weekend I was up the farm.
I marked out bloody two and ahalf, three odd k's of fences
and yards and shit, and so I didit all on my own.
So I was, I was pegging shitout and I had to put nails in
tape so I could do me three,four, fives and everything.
But um, like I I actually.
So I went and bought six newstring lines and I bought a um,

(59:35):
I think it's a 500 meter roll,because, like some of the runs I
pulled were, I think thelongest one I pulled was like
360, 380 meters.
Yeah, wow, um, and so, mate,that's all I was doing.
I put it from the boundaryfence, I put it around one of
the big round, um, strainerposts, strainer posts, yeah, and
then I pulled, I put starpickets in and drove the shit

(59:56):
like drove a 12 foot or 1200star pick it like 500 into the
ground.
Yep, and yeah, I was literallytwisting this thing like seven
or eight times.
So that's what we were taught.
I was taught to do seven, eighttimes.
Yep, so you're twisting on yourfinger, hook it over the post
and because they say long, likethe stretch in the stretch.
I was just reefing on thesethings.
Yeah and yeah.

(01:00:18):
So I was taught you do yourtwist, you put it over the post,
you reef, reef on it, you getit tight and then you line back
over the post twice and that wasit.
We didn't tie anything.
No half hitches, none of that.
And, mate, I was putting a hugeamount of pressure on them
because they were so long and itwas a little bit windy, and
then I'd side it, I'd walk along, put a peg of pressure on it

(01:00:41):
the other direction.
Done, finish.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Move on to the next one, and I think it's such an
easy thing, but it can becomesuch a pain to undo when it's
got that many different bodyknots tied in it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Yeah, and well, it's funny, you brought up string
lines, because the other thing,because I brought that big roll,
so what?
So the?
What's the standard string line?
A little roll, one, 50, 100 arethey?
So, yeah, there's a lot ofareas that they ran out like so,
um, and so this big, long, 500meter roll whatever it was, 600,
I can't remember but, um, afterhalf a day it ended up breaking

(01:01:15):
, like I was pulling the shitout of this thing and so I've
just gone over the bush and I'vebroken off.
So we never used to have ourlines on things.
They were always on a bit ofdowel, on a bit of dowel, and
the dowel was generally about200, 250 mil long, yep, and you
had to twist it, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
So there was an art to like looping this thing and
did you roll it in your hand atthe same time?
Yeah, so you twist it and rollit, yeah, same time, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
So you twist it and roll it, yeah, yeah, and that's
how you kept it tight and youdidn't get any knots in it.
And so I've gone over the bushand snapped off a branch and
bloody got me chiseling like,made one out of a piece of
bloody stick yet and I'm like noone else, like the file.
I'm there on my own but I'mliterally walking from the post
to the other end, twisting thisthing in my hand, doing it and
laughing at myself, saying, fuckme, like my apprentices
wouldn't have a clue how to doany of this and then that's all.
Like I need to show them.
But would they do anything withthat?

(01:02:09):
Probably not, because these daysyou just go um and you buy a
string line, but my boss and Iand even when I started my time
it there wasn't a lot of justround string lines like you you
bought string in bulk, yes, likeit used to come in.
I don't know, it might evenhave been a kilometre, but you
bought.
You coloured your yellows, yourpinks, yeah, and your plain

(01:02:31):
which plain was generally abrickies one yes, in a massive
roll, yep, and you basicallystarted twisting around your own
sticks and you made themwhatever length you wanted to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
So my plumb bob is still on one of those.
Yeah, on a piece of 20 mildowel.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Yeah, yeah, they were like they were.
Cause.
The other thing is, with theseround ones and like, people
probably don't like, they'reprobably just thinking we're
talking shit and it doesn'tmatter about any of this.
But like the round ones, you,it doesn't matter what you do,
but if you're just using a roundone, you're pulling it out.
You, you're doing your seventwists, you're hooking on your

(01:03:06):
post, you're pulling thispressure on it, you're letting
it down, you're winding up.
They end up twisted.
They do that when you have iton a piece of dowel.
By doing that, rolling in yourhand and twisting motion as
you're winding it up, you'retaking that twist out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Yeah, probably another couple good points off
that air hoses, right, yeah, sofor me for an air hose and look,
we don't use them a lot thesedays but I would run it out and
not plug it in the compressor.
So I'd put the the male end atthe compressor, run it out it'd
be fully extended, then plug itin and then you'd release some

(01:03:42):
air out of it before you put thegun in.
I did my apprenticeship innoosa.
So one grain of sand wouldstuff a gun.
Yeah, so every time you changeguns you push it.
You'd nail, punch in, let someair out so it cleans it out.
Yeah, and then of an afternoonyou would unplug it at the
compressor, unplug your gun offit, have it laid out and wind it
up.
Yeah, so it doesn't get amemory and it doesn't get twists
in it.
But my power leads are exactlythe same.

(01:04:02):
I've got extension leads fromwhen I was an apprentice and
they don't have twists in them.
Yeah, because I would lay themout flat and then roll them in
and do a half twist with everyloop you bring in.
Yeah, and then of a morning youwouldn't plug it in, you'd
leave it there and you'd run itback out.
So you'd run it out one way andreverse, roll it up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
And I've got leads in my trailer that hang on the
back door that do not have.
None of my leads have twists inthem.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
It sounds like very mundane stuff and like who gives
a shit about it really.
But, mate, I'm exactly the sameas you.
It shits me when I'm on siteearly and I'm seeing the boys,
well, all late, seeing them setup or pack up, and again we have
to teach our guys why thisstuff matters.

(01:04:47):
But it shits me to see someoneget an air hose out.
I hate air guns.
I think every site should stillhave air.
It's better quality, it punchesthe nails in better, it's
quicker.
To me it's just a lot better.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Going back to the nails, the nails were designed
for air guns to be shot in, sothe glue heated up where your
gas guns and your battery gunsdon't shoot as fast.
So the gun, the nails, probablyhaven't been designed or
redesigned to suit our new guns.
They fit in there at work, yeah, but are they actually working
under tension?
Probably like they're supposedto, yeah no, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
I think every site should have air guns like, um,
but seeing people get an airhose out, walk to the compressor
and, while it's still all boundup, plug it in and the thing
fucking blows up.
And then they're cursing andswearing because it's all
knotted up, yeah, like.
And then exactly the same asyou.
And yet, like my boss wouldscream at me if I started
rolling the and a lead up fromthe male end, like man, would I

(01:05:41):
get a kick in the ass.
Or if I started rolling the anda lead up from the male end,
like man, would I get a kick inthe ass.
Or if I started rolling theirhose up from the compressor,
yeah, I would get a kick in theass.
So, exactly like you just said,you there was.
In the morning you rolled outone way, in the afternoon you
rolled up the opposite.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Yep, and shit lasted they do, yeah, yeah, and you can
get them so that they just cometogether properly, clip them
together, them together.
I've got a bit of electricalwire tied on mine.
You tie them up, yeah, and thenyou'd hang them up or put them
wherever, and you get that.
If you do it enough times, youget those loops.
Exactly right, yeah, not longshort.
Everything else, even yourleads.
They just plug your leadstogether, yeah, and they last

(01:06:16):
longer.
But it comes back to, I suppose, looking after our tools and
making our tools work for us.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
It's pride, isn't it really?
Yeah, People are listening tothis and going, oh fucking hell,
what a waste of time.
It's pride.
It's looking after your shit,it's doing those little, it's
that extra 1%.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
It's the 1%.
Yeah, yeah, but your tools isyour livelihood.
Looking after your tools, likeif you're going to buy tools
every three or four years, yeah,like your money.
Your income's coming down.
Yeah, I've still in my trailer.
I've got my nine and a quarterinch makita power saw, which is
my first power saw, when I wasan apprentice and I was doing a

(01:06:52):
weekend job for some friends ofthe family and they're building
this huge big shed in pomona andthey put all the big timber
posts in and I went and put allthe rails on hand, drove the
iron on the outside with the oldspringhead nails and, um, as
part of my tool allowance, Isaid to him I wanted a nine and
a quarter inch and the boss saidto me why do you want a saw
that big?
I said, well, a big saw can cutlittle stuff, but a little saw

(01:07:13):
can't cut big stuff.
Yeah, but I've still got thatsaw today in my trailer and if
we're cutting big sleepers andstuff, it comes out out and we
use it.
Yep, and just looked after it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Yep, I've got two 9 1⁄4s still sitting around the
corner over there, Makita ones.
What are they?
2,400 watt or 3,400 watt or?

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
something, something like that.
Yeah, they're pretty big.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
You give them to an apprentice to use now and you
tell them you've got to hold onto it, mate, because they're
only used to holding this bloodycordless shit.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Yeah, they've got brakes on them and everything
else where these things willkick and they'll bite.
Yeah, you've got to respectyour tools.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Yeah, definitely See I suppose Back when I was a
apprentice sorry to cut you off,but every tool had a purpose.
Yes, Now I feel like mosttradies are trying to turn up
with minimal amount of tools.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
You've got these tool companies that are selling
these packs and everyone thinksthey can fucking operate from a
pack.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Yeah, like it's not how it works not as trippy as if
we're not.
There's so many variables.
But if you want to be a truecraftsman and true tradie, um,
you've got to have tools thatare fit for purpose and you
shouldn't be cutting posts likebig posts out, or hardwood
sleepers, or chasing in a set ofstairs or whatever with a
little bloody, five or six inchbloody cordless saw.
No, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
Yeah, I agree with you.
There's a reason for them.
You know so the purpose and thewhy.
So, yeah, yeah, another one Igot here is you know, when
you're flicking out ceilingbattens or you might be up on
scaffold you know there's guysat each end and you're flicking
lines all the time, tying twochalk lines together, yeah, so
joining them in the middle.

(01:08:50):
So they've both got.
You know the canister each, andthen you'll wind it up, flick
it and then you'll wind your endin.
His comes out, you move over,flick the next one and you just
keep going backwards andforwards.
So, therefore, you haven't gotto keep getting up and down and
passing the end to somebody, andthe way the ends on them are,
you can loop it over and justloop it through itself, yeah,

(01:09:12):
and just minimizes that up anddown all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
That's a cracking one mate and saves a lot of time.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Yeah, so that's something that we do Paraffin
wax, which basically is thecheapest white candle you can
buy.
So you just go to Coles and buysome white candles and it's
paraffin wax.
Going back to our hand saws,hand planers, I'll put it on my
electric planer, my batteryplaner, and you rub it on and it

(01:09:39):
just makes your tools glide somuch easier.
So you might have a hand sawthat's a little bit dull, it
might need to be sharpened.
Rub a bit of wax on it and itjust flies through the timber.
So much easier.
Planing aluminium so sometimesyou might have to plane a bit of
aluminium for some reason.
Rub that on the bottom of yourplaner and it doesn't grab as

(01:10:00):
much, because when you'replaning aluminium, even though
it's smooth, it's got like alittle chatter mark and it wants
to grab on the bottom of yourplaner.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Yeah, so you're rubbing it on the base plate of
your planer.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Yeah, rubbing it on the base plate of the planer?
Yep, rub it on my hand saws.
It just makes it work so mucheasier.
Yeah, and it's just a cheapcandle.
It also works well on squeakydoor catches, door hinges and
places like that where you canuse it.
I mean, I use it on mythicknesser, yeah.
So whenever we're using thethicknesser I'll always wind it

(01:10:29):
down and rub it inside and thenput it back to height and then
use it, and if I start getting abit of drag, I'll rub some more
in there.
You know, turn it off, put yourhand in there.
Yeah, and it's just thecheapest white candle you can
buy in there.
Yeah, and it's just thecheapest white candle you can
buy.
Very good, I learned somethingthere, but I had a couple of
those in the drawer of mytrailer all the time.
And hand planes.
They work great on hand planes.
People don't know what they arethese days, but if you're using

(01:10:50):
it, Every good tradesman shouldhave a little hand planer in
their tool bag.
Yeah, but yeah, so paraffin waxis cheap white candles.
So paraffin wax is cheap whitecandles and it just allows
everything to slide that mucheasier.
Excellent, it works good onyour remember the old DS2 door
catches?
Yeah, and they always squeak.
That's right.
Rub the value inside there andit takes a squeak out of it.

(01:11:13):
Very good, yeah, so I'vewritten down here well-organized
workspace.
When you're working at your sawst stools, your saw bench, crap
under your feet, yeah, you knowguys are just trying to work
and they're tripping over orwalking around something or
taking off cuts of the timberoff the saw bench and putting it
at their feet.

(01:11:34):
Like, make a workspace, notonly for safety, but it just
makes it that much quicker andeasier.
You're not worrying aboutwhat's under your feet all the
time.
Yeah, I think that's a reallybig one.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
Well, it's also setting up in the correct area.
Yes, that's just something thatwas drummed into me constantly.
The saw bench didn't go in thesame location every single day.
If you were doing cladding atthe feet, the bench followed you
around the house, wherever youstarted that morning.

(01:12:07):
Or if you knew that that dayyou were going to get this side
and that side done, then it wentout in the fresco area and the
next day you might have to movearound to the front of the house
.
So, taking out that travel timerunning backwards and forwards
all the time yeah same with thefit out.
Like you do the ground floor,you get it smashed out.
Move.
Your saw up to the first floorlike the top floor.
Yeah yeah yeah, but um like.
Yeah, have your buckets or yourwheelbarrow beside your saw so
that the waste is going straightin there.
When it's full, take the bin,empty it yeah, yeah, we have

(01:12:28):
bins.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Yeah, just some drums like yeah, the 40 liter drum or
60 liter bloody place, yeah, 12gallon drums.
Yeah, yeah, I've got a couplemetal ones of those.
Yeah, and we just put that atthe saw bench.
Yeah, so if it's rubbish itjust goes straight in, because
otherwise you're double handling.
Yeah, you're dropping it on theground and you gotta pick it up
again yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
No, we're big on that , having the some sort of
buckets or um, we just get those.
I think the 60 liter bucketsfrom bunnings are cheap as yep
or wheelbarrow like yeah,whatever rubbish you got, as
soon as it's full, straight inthe bin straight in the bin,
yeah, and it's just, it'spreparation, um, but it's also a
big time saver and it's safer,yeah, you know that's.

(01:13:07):
Another big thing is the safetyside of it, yeah, and while
we're on that, we're cleaning upand stuff, like just again.
That's why I'm a big fan of theair, like in the afternoon,
like just blow your shit, blowyour sores out, yeah, like blow
your planers out, clean shit offyeah that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
The air hose is great for that.
Just a big clean up and thenyou know the drop saws.
They just keep that little bitdust in the bottom all the time,
get a slight bit of moisture onthem.
Next thing they bind up andthey don't want to work.
We get the air hose in there.
Yeah, just cleans them out.
The blowers are good, but theyjust don't have the same place.
Yeah, yeah, they're good, forcertain things can't be there,
mate, no no, every site needsair.

(01:13:42):
Yep, um, denailing timber.
So you've just been doing a lotof that recently with your,
your demo work and stuff, yeah,um, but I'm talking more about
if you're doing, say, claddingweather board, chamfer board, um
moldings where you might betaking them off, especially in
some of the older style homeswhere you want to reuse them.
And denailing is not punchingthe nail back but pulling it out

(01:14:04):
through the back of the timber,because that more than likely
has been puttied and it's beenpainted and as soon as you drive
it back through the face, itblows the face out.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
You've got to pick and choose the timber, what it's
going to be reused for.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
But but yeah, get your nips and curl your nips and
pull it through and pulling outthe back, where a lot of guys
don't never been taught.
That I don't understand.
So you know, it's a potentiallyreusable timber becomes, you
know, wasted, wasted, it's justthe waste being denailed.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Yeah, yeah.
No, we do that with a lot ofour claddings and stuff that we
reuse.
Don with framing, like framingjust gets punched out.
But yeah, yeah, definitely anychamfer boards, weatherboards,
arc trays and things on on olderhomes.
If we're reusing it, yeah, butin saying that some timber, um

(01:14:53):
what, some of the nails are thatold that they don't pull
through.
So, yeah, if that's the case,then it's a lot of times you're
just pulling it till it breaksand then you're nipping it off
at the back yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
Yeah, it doesn't work all the time, but just you know
, really fun I suppose.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
What about the other trades, mate?
You had a few for other trades,didn't you?

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
when we've been chatting, yeah, I think I wrote
them down.
To be honest, I think thismorning I was talking to a
plumber the other day and heraised I'm looking at putting
another plumber on because theguy we're using is quite busy
and just reliability and stufflike that.
So he's a young guy and heseems really good.
But he said to me that he'sfinding it hard that when he

(01:15:30):
gets to site that the sites areso minimalistic on leftover
timber he's got nothing to putnoggings in with.
Because I said we'd run thenoggs in for him for different
areas.
And he's like oh, what do youmean?
I said I will mark it outtogether, we'll shoot the noggs
in and then they're all doneproperly.
Yeah, um, and he said well, theproblem he's finding is that
he's not getting timber on thesites.
He's getting the site andthey're not leaving anything for

(01:15:51):
him.
So then he's trying to pinchsome timber out of the job
somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
Yeah, this, the jobs are that tight, especially a
volume builder where they'resmashing out 100 at the same
home.
They have a list that hasworked 100 times.
They're basically cutting uppallets to get their timber.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
So as a homeowner, you wouldn't be really happy
with a piece of pallet going inyour wall, would you?

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
Well it comes back to that thing.
A lot of people just think thatwell, it's covered up, who
cares?
But I wouldn't want a bit ofbloody, especially with plumbing
fixtures.
I wouldn't want any plumbingfixtures screwed to a bit of
bloody.
15 mil pallet material.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
No, and I suppose it comes back to is it treated?

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
Yeah, what about these little ones?
I've talked about a few ofthese before, like water testing
, wet areas For flood testingyeah.
Or just making sure, once yourwaterproofing is done, you're
clogging up your drains andyou're putting a pen line on the
wall and you're leaving it sitfor 48 hours yeah definitely.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
I've got what I call them balloons, but they pump up,
they go down inside the waste.
So your puddle fan is in place,you put it down inside there,
fill it up.
Yeah, we pencil mark it, wetime stamp it.
So when we take a photo on thecamera, you know on your phone,
you have a date and a time onthere.
Yeah, and then, yeah, like yousaid, give it 48 hours.
Come If it's dramaticallychanged.
Obviously there's a concern oryou'll start to see water

(01:17:20):
licking through the roomsomewhere.
Yeah, so I think that's areally important one.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
It has to be done.
Yeah, mate, what about flickinglines, like when you're marking
slabs and things out, likegetting your square line, as in,
what are we?

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
using to flick the lines or.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
No, like getting a like having square lines, like
setting up, like before you go,marking out all your walls,
squaring the house or the renoup and then finding your, your
longest hallway, your longestroom and, yeah, putting like.
I guess we we call them squarelines.
I just well, that's what they'reputting a permanent square line
through the job in bothdirections, like marking it with

(01:17:55):
nico.
Um, like one of our recent jobswe've just done, um, one brad,
one of our leading carpenters.
He's actually gone through andput nicks in with the grinder in
the concrete so they're neverlost, they can't get lost, and
then everything throughout thejob works off that square line.
The toiler does its set out offit anything.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
So you're just setting a permanent datum.
Yeah, that's what you're doing.
Yeah, so whenever we're doingflick outs, we'll use black
oxide because you don't get abit of rain on that sort of
thing.
Yeah, but we all run like ablue and someone else will you
know in chalk.
Yeah, so you know there's acouple of other colors, but
we'll always do it initially ina chalk line.
So it gives you the ability.

(01:18:36):
If it doesn't you know, three,four, five doesn't work means
that you can tweak it and then,once you've got that position
correct, we'll flick it in theblack.
But yeah, I think that's veryimportant to have your permanent
square lines all the time thateveryone can work back to.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
And doing set outs like when you flick, like not
doing it in a rush to do it, youflick all your walls but
actually having to think aboutlike positions of tiles and
where joints are going to be andwhere plumbing fixtures are
going to go, like well, that'san overall set out, isn't so I
think majority people say setout, they just think about the
set out of the frames.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
But, like you said, there's the tiling, there's the
niches.
Um, where that all comes intoplay.
How tiles finish up in a tallerdown a hallway?
Yeah, are they offset?
And that's another thing.
That's lost is a lot of tilersdon't know how to set out.
Yeah, you know where do youstart?
Start with a full tile and acorner mat?
Yeah, of course you know.
But you might have to startwith a half tile so that you

(01:19:30):
finish with a third, whereas ifyou had to start it with a full,
you might end up with thislittle 20 mil rip somewhere.
Yeah, you know, and especiallywhen you're doing renovations,
the walls might already be thereand they may not be square.
Yeah, so you know, there mightbe in a five meter wall, it
might run 20 mil out, so youdon't want to have a tile grout
line 50 mil away.

(01:19:51):
Yeah, so you've got to changethat set out so that you've got
a bigger piece of tile.
So it's not as obvious, not,yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
not so configurous?
Um, what about your heights,your noggins in your walls?
As in um making sure you avoidthe joints in your jitins and
your walls?

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
As in Making sure you avoid the joints in your jit,
rock and stuff Yep Do you knowwhat the code is for the
distance between nogginsvertically Mate not off the top
of my head.
So the width of the noggins,let's say it's a 70 mil frame.
They can't be any more than70mm apart vertically.
So I know that you know yougenerally flick a line and you

(01:20:27):
put one up and one down, but forsome reason if they have to
move you can't have them 100mmapart.

Speaker 1 (01:20:33):
Yeah, yeah, but I thought you were talking about
spacing, like it's a tall wall.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
Oh you know, so it's just the row of nogging
themselves, as it seems likeit's a tall wall.
Oh you know, sorry, it's justthe row of nogging themselves.
Yeah, as in the positioning ofwhere they sit, whatever the
width is, they can't be any morethan that.
Let's say, for some reason,that there was a penetration
coming through the wall and youhad to move that nogging.
Well, if you had to move itmore than the width, you would
have to put two in.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
Yeah, two, one above and one below.
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, justalways keeping your rows and
noggs, like working out whatyou're depending on the heights
of your ceilings, working outwhat plasterboard sheets are
going to be used, making sureyour row and noggs is like.
I like to aim for 200 mil.
Yep, get it below, so youhaven't got that row and noggs
right where your joint's goingto be.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
Even though we go through straight and walls and
playing things like I, just Ithink it plays havoc on the on
that joint if you've got solidtimber behind them yeah, it does
.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
It tends to put a little um, a little random there
, doesn't it yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
yeah, what about, uh, like waterproofing, like
preparation things like I know,a lot of builders try and do
their own waterproofing to savea dollar yep I'm a big fan of
just getting a contractor inthat knows what they're doing
and and doing it properly.
But like part of the problem,on a massive re like rebuild
we're doing at the moment fromsome builders that didn't do a

(01:21:50):
job correctly I was just usingblackjack for waterproofing in a
bathroom, no, on a retainingwall.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
On a retaining wall yeah, yeah, and was it a block
wall?

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
yeah, yeah, I see it all the time.
I'm not a fan.
I think blackjack, the onlything, blackjack.
I don't know what retainingwall?
Yeah, yeah.
And was it a block wall?
Yeah, yeah, I see it all thetime.
I'm not a fan.
I think blackjack.
The only thing blackjack shouldbe used for is on your posts
and the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
Yeah, which is another good point is
blackjacking your posts and theygo on the concrete because you
get the reaction from thecalcium in the post and they'll
start to want to rust away attheir ground height or at their
top of concrete.
Yeah, the calcium in theconcrete.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
It causes a reaction with the place.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
Yeah, no, anyone all like generally anything we put
in the ground, whether it'ssteel or timber.
Yeah yeah, we'll always getblackjacked.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Yeah, we do that on our timber as well.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
Yeah, yep, what about like putting membranes on your
floors when you've got timberflooring that's close to the
ground, yep, so we've been doingit for a little while.
We've got a job coming up at themoment.
So our standard practice now is, like any floor that's got an
undercroft area, like we putgeofoam down, we put 100mm

(01:22:59):
gravel down and make it all niceand tidy so weeds and shit
don't grow and just having thatgravel in there allows the
ground to air a lot better.
But, um, recently, um, ourtimber flooring companies
started, uh, refusing to laytimber floors unless we're
putting a waterproof membraneover the floor that they're
laying it on.

(01:23:19):
So any moisture that possiblydoes come up through the
existing timber floor or throughthe particle board substrate
doesn't get into their goodtimber, yep.
And so I guess they're tellingme that there's been changes in
the code and things, but for along time they've well,
depending on the floor substrateand stuff.
Like you know, when they laytimber on top of concrete, they

(01:23:40):
always put the plastic down andseal it off.
But yeah, you should be puttinga waterproof membrane down, a
roll on sealer type one, on yourtimber floors before you lay
your timber over the top.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
Okay, um, going back to your slabs, there's a bit of
sort of controversy on that,because if you're doing an
overlay on the concrete slabwhich is glue, fixed like a TNG
floor, so you're putting a 15mil ply down, it's supposed to
be glued to your concrete.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
So if you've got a plastic membrane down, Well
glued or it's got to be allsupposed to be pinned.
I think it's got to be pinnedat like.
I think it's 300 mil squares orsomething.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Yeah, so it's been a couple of years.
The last time we did we had toput a waterproof membrane on the
slab that was compatible withUltraset, and then we had to
notch trowel and put our plydown and pin it as well.
Yeah, so we drilled it and thenwe put a sealant into the hole,

(01:24:39):
pinned it down, and then weobviously give that a light sand
and then we notch trowels andput the timber floor down at the
top.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Yeah, I think there's so many different scenarios.
I think that's why it's reallyimportant You've got to have
good relationships with yourcontractors, good relationships
with your reps, and reallyassessing every job.
Yep, because, depending on yourlocation, the amount of
moisture, whether it's asubfloor, whether it's a slab on

(01:25:09):
ground, um, whether it's a newhouse, old house, like there's
so many variables.
So, like getting likeeveryone's aim should be to do
best practice, like sit back,assess every single situation,
every single job yeah have aconversation with your trades,
the supplies, whoever it is, andmake sure that you're basically
building every single job.
Yeah, have a conversation withyour trades, the suppliers,
whoever it is, and make surethat you're basically building
every single job the best youpossibly can, yeah, achieving
the best you can.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
And one of the things I wrote in here was about
accuracy.
You know, aiming for the onepercenter.
You know, do one percenterbetter today than you did
yesterday, yeah, definitely.
And I think that if theindustry took that on board,
we'd have a lot better industryyeah, oh, 100, 100.

Speaker 1 (01:25:44):
Like just get rid of this old.
Oh, I think it's old-fashioned.
Like near enough's good enough.
Yep, like that's.
There's too much of that in theindustry.

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
Like near enough is not good enough now we need to
be building houses that lastlonger, like our grandfathers
were building houses that arestill up today well, not just
longer, but look after theoccupants.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
Yeah, yes, people should be able to live in a home
and know that the home's notgoing to contribute to diseases
or health issues, making surethe products go into them are
installed correctly, thatthey're fit for purpose, that
they're going to last a test oftime, that they're appropriate
for purpose, that they're goingto last a test of time, that

(01:26:25):
they're appropriate for thatzone or that location.
There is a lot to it.
I think so many trades justfeel that it's one size fits all
.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
Yeah, and I think we need to be more conscious of all
those things.
Which is education, which iswhat you're trying to achieve,
or what you are achieving.
That's what you're putting outthere, but I think that a lot
more people should be takingthat on board and just trying to
improve.

Speaker 1 (01:26:48):
Yeah, yeah, now look, Craig.
Well, definitely a massiveshout-out for you to come back
today, the Godfather.
So Craig is a look.
If you want to spend some timewith Craig, hang out with him.
Make sure you come to the levelup experience on the 30th of
May.
Craig's going to be there.
He's actually going to be doinga panel discussion with a few
other builders about all typesof things to do with building as

(01:27:08):
well as running a buildingbusiness.
But, yeah, Craig truly is agodfather of building.
He knows a lot of tips andhints and he is definitely open
to having conversations andsharing and educating people.
So, thanks for coming, mate.
Thanks for having me, mate.
It's always a pleasure.
I like coming down and having achat.
Yeah, no, it's awesome.
Well, go to my website,duanepiercecom.

(01:27:29):
Purchase your tickets for theLevel Up Experience.
Make sure you subscribe, like,share everything with this
podcast so that we can continueto make this Australia's number
one construction podcast.
See you on the next one.
Are you ready?

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
to build smarter, live better and enjoy life.

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
Then head over to livelikebuildcom.
Forward slash, elevate.
To get started, everythingdiscussed during the Level Up
podcast with me, dwayane pierce,is based solely on my own
personal experiences and thoseexperiences of my guests.
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in

(01:28:22):
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.

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