October 6, 2025 • 57 mins
Welcome back to Level Up with Duayne Pearce! In this episode, Duayne sits down with Nick from Highwood Timber to tackle one of the biggest challenges in Australian home building: creating healthy, mold-free homes that stand the test of time.
Duayne shares his personal mission to become one of Australia’s leading healthy home builders, diving deep into the science of condensation, ventilation, and why traditional building methods are no longer enough. Nick introduces Highwood Timber’s innovative LVL batten system—a game-changer for managing moisture, improving air quality, and meeting the latest National Construction Code (NCC) requirements.
You’ll learn:
- Why condensation and poor ventilation are causing hidden health issues in Aussie homes
- How Highwood’s ventilated LVL battens work and why they’re better than traditional solutions
- The latest changes to Australia’s building codes and what they mean for builders and homeowners
- Practical tips for building healthier, longer-lasting homes
Whether you’re a builder, tradie, or homeowner passionate about healthy living, this episode is packed with actionable insights and expert advice.
🔗 Check out Highwood Timber: https://highwood.com.au
🔔 Subscribe for more episodes on building science, healthy homes, and industry innovation!
Got questions or want to share your experience? Drop a comment below!
HealthyHomes #BuildingScience #Condensation #Ventilation #DuaynePearce #HighwoodTimber #LevelUpPodcast #Australia #PassiveHouse #MoldFreeHomes
Check out the Duayne Pearce website here...
https://duaynepearce.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_05 (00:05):
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Level
Up.
We are back in the shed thisafternoon for another cracking
episode.
This one is something that I'mincredibly passionate about at
the moment.
And I'm actually on a mission.
If you haven't heard it on myother podcasts, I want to become
one of Australia's leadinghealthy home builders.
We're definitely taking healthyhomes very seriously in our
(00:28):
building business.
Spending a lot of time, a lot ofeffort researching,
collaborating, talking topeople.
So the guest I've got with metoday is actually someone that
we've teamed up with.
They've come on board, they'regoing to be one of our sponsors
for this podcast because Ibelieve in what they're uh the
what their product and whatthey're doing.
(00:48):
So I'm really looking forward totoday's podcast because I think
there's going to be a lot ofeducation, a lot of knowledge
shared.
So a massive warm welcome toNick from Highwood Products,
mate.
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
I'm very well.
I'm very well, Duane.
Thanks for having me.
It's a privilege to be on airtoday.
I'm really looking forward tothe conversation.
It'd be great.
SPEAKER_05 (01:05):
Well, mate, I think like you, your product
definitely plays a massive rolein what I'm trying to achieve.
Sure.
Um, and even just from thelittle bits and pieces that I
put out on my socials, I cantell that there's a lot more
education needed.
Sure.
Like, yep.
Um, so I guess uh to let youknow um about Nick's product.
So Nick is has developed an Lengineered LVL uh batten system
(01:30):
for walls and roofs.
Yep, absolutely.
Um and let's face it, like it'sit's a very crucial part if
you're aiming to have a healthyor a passive home.
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
Spot on.
So it's the the primary functionof the of the material is to
provide ventilation and drainagethrough your wall cavity.
It looks like a simple design,and it really is a simple uh
product to achieve a relativelycomplex result.
But basically what it does is itallows any moisture that builds
up inside your building thatpasses through your vapor
(02:00):
permeable membrane to be drainedand ventilated away from your
wall frame, which keeps yourwall cavity dry, keeps the
inside of the home dry, andstops any moisture-related
issues that form in your wallsystem uh from having sort of
long long-term negative impactson your home.
So, I mean, nowadays, especiallyuh as that conversation has
(02:21):
started to become moremainstream, uh, people are much
more aware of the fact that youknow mould, uh condensation, and
any sort of associated issueswith that can have long-term
health impacts, could also havelong-term impacts on the quality
of your frame.
Uh, all these things uh areimportant to be aware of and
important to manage.
Uh, so we think we've come upwith a really simple solution to
(02:41):
doing exactly that.
Um, probably where it'sdifferent is it's a structural
material as well.
So, you know, it'll free spanacross your studs, hold the
weight of your cladding.
SPEAKER_05 (02:50):
Yeah.
Definitely keen to get into thatmore.
Sure.
Just to go back a little bit,because a lot of the questions
I'm getting on my socials ispeople asking why.
Why are we even putting a cavitybaton on our jobs?
SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
Sure.
So to give it a bit of anoverview on the cavity space,
basically, moisture, the mainreason that we've got uh
vapor-permeable membranes in ourhomes now, and it's starting to
become a bit more of aconversation, is moisture
accumulates in two differentplaces.
It can come out of the air fromthe outside of your building.
Uh, but the more common example,and what most of the cavity
(03:24):
systems that we're looking attoday are addressing is moisture
that actually comes from insidethe building.
SPEAKER_05 (03:29):
It can it can uh be different depending on your
climate zone.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (03:33):
Yes, absolutely.
It can be it can it can varyclimate zone to climate zone,
but um any moisture that passesthrough that membrane's got to
have somewhere to go, right?
So the vapor membranes areexcellent at getting that
moisture out and passing themoisture through, but if they've
got nowhere to escape that wallcavity, essentially you've just
got latent moisture that'ssitting in between your cladding
and your frame, which unlessventilated, can cause mold.
SPEAKER_05 (03:57):
How where we might can we talk a little bit about
your background?
Yeah.
Like because um you're verypassionate about timber.
SPEAKER_02 (04:04):
Yes, yes.
I um I've since I left highschool been in the timber
industry more or less.
So worked in hardware.
My first job out of high schoolwas cooking the barbecue on a
Saturday at my local hardwarestore, um, which was great.
Sort of worked my way up intodoing um uh sales and sort of uh
(04:25):
had a few builder accounts andthat sort of thing.
So got a got a good feel for thebuilding industry and came to
love it.
Um did a stint up at theSunshine Coast for in the sort
of sales around the supply andinstall of solid timber
flooring.
Solid and engineered timberflooring.
So that that was probably a goodum a really good insight into
(04:46):
timber as it performs,particularly timber as it
performs in in moisture.
So um I'm sure you've and I'mnot sure if you guys have even
when you install your floors, ifyou install your own floors or
you have uh, you know, aflooring contract to come in.
But either way, um you'd be wellaware of the fact that timber
likes to take on and and anddissipate moisture.
(05:09):
So that that sort of taught meabout uh timber and moisture as
a as a concept uh and makingsure that's correctly managed.
It also made me um uh gave me abit of an exposure to engineered
timber as a concept and how uhstable it can be as a as a
concept.
Uh and then spent a bit of timein wholesale uh engineered wood
product in LVL as well.
So have always just sort of beenin the in the timber industry
(05:30):
and have really grown to loveit.
I mean, I think like we coveredoff earlier, I I believe in
timber as a as a material, assomething that's got really long
legs in our constructionindustry.
Um I you know, I think it'sbeautiful, it's good to look at
it.
You know, it's it's it's a goodfeature in homes.
I like when people use, youknow, timber ceilings and timber
floors and all that sorts ofstuff.
(05:52):
But I think it's it's I probablyagree with what you said
earlier.
I think it's uh it's here to beused, and we we're finding
better ways to use it, which isuh an exciting time for us.
So but to answer your question,I've I've always sort of been
exposed to it.
Um I think always will be.
SPEAKER_05 (06:07):
So that's yeah, it's and look, I'll put my hand up.
Like honestly, it's probablybeen three to four years that
since I sort of startedquestioning why we should be
doing this and and what we'redoing.
Like the last two years, it'sit's our standard practice now,
but it all comes back tobuilding science, doesn't it?
And it and I know like in theStates and Canada and um Europe,
(06:30):
they building science issomething that gets talked about
a lot more.
Like I until recently, I haven'treally noticed it being spoken
about in Australia.
Yes.
And I guess for that reason, andbecause we're not taught that,
like I could I just couldn't putit all together.
And like I didn't reallyunderstand my um like a lot of
(06:51):
the reasons I thought we hadbuilding wraps basically coming
up through my trade and my timeand becoming a builder, and then
like no one ever explained to mewhat the building wrap was
really for.
Sure.
Um, and honestly, I thought itwas more to do with insulation
than um condensation or ormoisture um prevention or
control or whatever you want tocall it.
(07:13):
Yep.
Um, but again, it's one of thosethings like once you know it,
you can't unknow it.
That's right.
As soon as you start tounderstand that our homes create
moisture from the humans thatlive in it, the like cooking,
yep, um, your bathrooms with allthe steam, like there's just do
you do you I I always forget thenumber.
Like it like the average familyof four produces like is over
(07:36):
200 litres of moisture a week.
SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
I couldn't tell you off the top of my head, but it's
a lot, it is a lot, it's a lotmore than we think, definitely.
SPEAKER_05 (07:41):
And so that has to go somewhere.
Yes.
And so I guess for people thatare asking why we use a batten,
if that moisture's comingthrough, and even if you are
using the correct building wrap,like in the past, and and um
even now with claddings peopleare using, that moisture's
stopping at the back of thecladding.
(08:02):
That's right.
So it might be coming throughthe mem the wall wrap, but it's
not going anywhere.
SPEAKER_02 (08:06):
Spot on.
SPEAKER_05 (08:07):
And so if it doesn't go anywhere, especially now that
we've got to fill our walls,like it's code to insulate your
walls, if people aren't using amould-resistant insulation, nine
times out of ten, that moistureis getting trapped and getting
absorbed by the insulation.
Yep, absolutely.
So I don't I'm I don't know,it's probably a whole other
topic and something we can talkabout another day.
(08:29):
But personally, I knowing what Iknow now, I think Australia is
heading towards similar to whatEurope, Canada, New Zealand's
been through, like the LinkyHome syndromes.
Like we we're gonna have a lotof mould issues.
SPEAKER_02 (08:40):
Oh, absolutely.
It's it's it you mentioned NewZealand, I think it's a really
good sort of case in point as tocertainly where I believe the
industry is heading as anAustralian industry, um, and for
good reason, absolutely.
But uh New Zealand uh is is aprobably a great uh and a
well-developed example of uhcondensation now very well
managed in their sort ofbuilding practice.
(09:02):
But if we wind back the clockquite a few years, they were
relying on um well lightweightcladding started to become a bit
more mainstream over there, um,out of a traditionally sort of
block and brick market, relyingon the cladding system for your
your primary sort ofweatherproofing layer that led
to water ingress issues.
SPEAKER_05 (09:20):
Um, but can we like everyone thinks cladding is a
moisture layer, don't they?
To a certain extent, yes.
I do like I that's how I wastaught.
Yep.
Like do your cladding perfectly,sticker up holes.
Like that's your prevention.
SPEAKER_02 (09:35):
Yes, and look, it absolutely is a very, very
significant part of yourprevention, but it's it's uh it
is sort of part and parcel withalso weatherproof membrane.
Absolutely.
So if we sort of take a you knowwalk through history, that was
where we started.
There was a water ingress issue,uh, which was deemed the leaky
homes crisis in New Zealand,which um led to an enormous
(09:56):
amount of rectification costlong term.
The sort of overhaul from thatwas to go to airtight uh
barriers, which were reallyeffective at managing the
moisture from a um from aweather perspective.
So any moisture coming inthrough rain or anything like
that was very effectivelymanaged.
But almost to the extent that itwas too effectively uh managed
(10:18):
and ended up uh building sort ofeskies or equivalent, you know?
SPEAKER_05 (10:22):
Yeah, it's like going for a walk in the rain and
putting a raincade on and likeyou just you sweat inside.
Exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (10:28):
So it was it was excellent at keeping the rain
out, but also excellent atkeeping the moisture in.
So again, vapor-permeablemembranes and vapor permeable uh
weather-resistant barriersstarted to become more
prevalent.
Um, again, they were excellentat doing what they were designed
to do, which was passingmoisture through.
But the issue then became wheredoes that moisture go?
(10:49):
So New Zealand has arrived at avery stock standard cavity
ventilation across the board.
Um, and I believe that's cominghere.
And it certainly is starting toget reflected in in our codes
here and certainly our proposedcodes here.
Um, and I think it's for a goodreason.
I think it's a really effectiveuh way to manage condensation.
SPEAKER_05 (11:06):
Well, a lot of it's not just New Zealand, like a
like a lot of parts of Europeand and America and Canada,
that's their standard practice,isn't it?
That they're they're buildingcavities on the outsides of
their building.
SPEAKER_02 (11:16):
Absolutely.
So I think what do they call itin the US?
It's uh like a furring, furringuh furring screen or rain screen
system.
Um but yeah, exactly right.
So certainly in the northwest ofthe United States, it's very
common practice to have a youknow similar sort of system, you
know, be it a vertical batten ora cross-hatched batten system.
But either way, it's it's uhit's all achieving a very
similar result, which is havinga an unencumbered air slash
(11:40):
moisture path in your wallcavity.
SPEAKER_05 (11:43):
Yeah.
And I guess it is a big rabbithole.
Like there's just so many partsto it, and it it can be
difficult to understand all ofit, but like that's the basics
of it, isn't it?
Like you're you're controllingmoisture.
Yep, absolutely.
You're um by using a goodquality uh building wrap, such
as for a climber, yep.
Um you're preventing anymoisture that's getting in
(12:05):
through your facade, whetherit's lightweight cladding or
brick or block or whatever itmay be from getting into the
building.
But the moisture that's comingout from inside the building,
you're allowing it to either dryor move around.
Yes.
Um and so something else I'velearned through my journey on
(12:27):
this, um, the stack effect,which I'm sure you're aware of.
Like the whole like the otherbig idea of having a cavity is
to get air movement around thethe outside of the building.
So obviously hot air rises, socreating a good cavity that's um
will basically goes from thebottom of your cladding all the
(12:48):
way up your walls over the topsof your roof insulation and out
through a vented ridge cappingor some sort of roof
ventilation.
Yes, the more air movement youhave, obviously that's going to
help the wall stay dry as well.
SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
Absolutely, and and also dissipate heat, which is
you know, uh has a it its ownset of sort of thermal benefits
to your overall wall system.
I mean, we have very hotsummers, um, it you know, it
gets hot sort of year-round, butit's uh it's any way that that
air can pass over your buildingalso helps just the the overall
thermal performance of yourhome.
SPEAKER_05 (13:20):
Yeah, so your batons are designed to do that.
Like they um, I'm not sure if itlike you should be able to pick
it up if you if you're listeningto this, you really should go
and watch uh on YouTube becauseyou'll see Nick's bought in a
little um sample today.
But can you tell us a little bitabout your batons?
Because like they're designed tohelp with all this air movement
(13:41):
and moisture movement and thattype of thing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
So from a design perspective,uh, and again, I'm sure if
anyone's looking at it can seethat it's a it's quite a
straightforward concept.
Um, but the the material is isLVL, structural LVL, uh, with
grooves, air channels slashdrainage vents on either side to
allow an even distribution ofventilation across the wall.
(14:03):
The top edge of the product isbeveled to allow drainage away
from the frame.
So uh, and the the bottom edgestays square basically to allow
that moisture on the front sideof the baton to drip off the
bottom.
So, like a drip strip you wouldhave with cladding, very similar
sort of concept here.
Uh, but it needs to allow thatmoisture a clear path out, down
and out, away from your frame.
(14:26):
Um, it allows an air a certainamount of airflow behind your
cladding.
Now that's uh we've sort of beenguided by uh legislation,
certainly in New Zealand.
So uh without going tootechnical, the the amount of
airflow in order to deem acavity well vented and drained
is 1,000 square millimeters perlineal meter, which is uh you
(14:49):
can achieve why having you knowmultiple grooves that add up to
about a thousand.
When you hear that number,you're like, holy shit, that's
enormous, but it's squaremillimeters.
Square millimeters, that'sright.
So it's not, it's uh it sounds alot more than it actually is,
but it's not nothing.
So it um uh and you can achievethat obviously by having a total
air movement across the baton.
It's got to be evenlydistributed, so you obviously
(15:11):
don't have one area of the wallthat's really well ventilated
and another area that's notventilated at all, um, which you
can achieve by evenlydistributing grooves on either
side of the material.
So our products all achieve orall of our wall products achieve
2,000 square millimeters ofventilation, um, which will
comply with certainly all ofyour uh your upcoming
ventilation requirements.
(15:32):
Um and you know, exceeding thatis also a good option basically
for giving you know as muchairflow as you can.
SPEAKER_05 (15:39):
The more the better.
It's clear.
So um, yeah, not only is ithelping with moisture
management, it's also helpingwith the heating and cooling of
the home.
Yes by getting that airmovement.
Yeah.
Um, there's there's a lot ofparts of this.
So, like obviously, like Nick'shere today to talk about his
product.
Um, I'm going to be talkingabout this sort of thing a lot
on my podcast from now onbecause it it is a whole system.
(16:01):
You've got to have the buildingwrap, you've got to have the
batons, you've got to have uhclav cavity closes, you've got a
vermin proof.
Like, there's there's a there'sa lot of parts to it to do it
well.
Um, and we've definitely beengetting better and better every
job we've been doing over thelast sort of two, two and a half
years.
Um, but one of the things I'venoticed, Nick, on our jobs, and
(16:22):
um, we haven't got a completednew build with Nick's product
yet.
We uh we're very close to it.
We're going to be starting one.
Uh we've got Windows showing upon a job in about 10 weeks or
so.
So we will have a full high-endthree-story uh multi-million
dollar home that we'll be usingthis on and um getting a really
good finish.
Um, but up until I found you andyour product, uh, we've been
(16:48):
using a CCA um 20mm button.
SPEAKER_04 (16:51):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (16:52):
And even just using that, I can't believe the
difference in our homespre-plastering.
Yep.
Like we get the building wrappedup, the building has time to uh
dry out and acclimatize like allthe timber, like we build
lightweight.
So um, and the best example ofthat is a job that we've
(17:12):
literally plastered in the lastthree weeks.
Uh, it sat through all the rainwe got in Queensland earlier
this year, got absolutelysaturated, and we were a little
bit concerned about mould uhgrowing.
Yep.
Um so but being able to get theroof on, use a Proclimber
product, and then working on theoutside of the home, getting all
(17:34):
the batten on, getting all thecladding on, and then all the
rough end work happening on theinside.
So it was sitting there for likea super large home, so it was
sitting there for a considerableamount of time.
The the you can smell it, likeit just it well, there is no
smell.
Like it's it's um like havebeing able to breathe while also
(17:58):
being watertight, yes, lettingand then we moisture test all of
our jobs now before we um putany internal wall linings on.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (18:05):
But then even now that it's plastered, like I feel
like the house is performingbetter than any like better than
our previous projects even now,and it's not even finished.
Well, there you go.
SPEAKER_02 (18:18):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It makes sense.
SPEAKER_05 (18:20):
Well, it would be, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
But but just I did well you I'venever realized how I guess and I
guess I'm probably taking morenotice of it now, but um
especially through summers herein Queensland when we we like
let's face it, we get lots ofstorms, we quite often get a lot
of wet weather.
I guess I didn't really takeenough notice of that sort of
(18:42):
misty smell in the jobs.
Yeah, and now that it's notthere, I'm like, man, like this
this is far more, like this isbigger than what I think.
Yes.
Um and so even just noticingthat now, and again, that's why
I'm on this mission to be uh oneof Australia's leading healthy
home builders, yeah.
Like where the homes we build, Inever realized until obviously
(19:04):
getting onto these cavitysystems and things how much our
homes affect our health.
Yes.
And I know you're prettypassionate about that.
SPEAKER_02 (19:12):
Absolutely.
Look, they um they certainly do,and I think it's one of the
things that's uh which is a verygood thing that's now started to
become a bit more of a of aconversation.
Um, whether it's at a selectionend or you know, obviously
you're something that you'repromoting with your clients, but
it's really important, and it'sit's you know, we spend a lot of
time in our homes, and it'simportant that they are a
(19:33):
healthy place to be.
SPEAKER_05 (19:34):
Yeah.
Um, so back to talking aboutyour product.
It you mentioned a couple oftimes, it's structural.
Yes.
Um one thing I love about it isit's LVL.
Yes.
So it's it's size and itsstraightness and all those types
of things are amazing.
Yes, absolutely.
Um, but look, like I said, Ihaven't used it yet, but I can
already see the benefits of itbeing structural.
(19:56):
At the moment, using a 20 mil,like we've got to make sure all
of our framing's set out for ourdepending on the type of
cladding we're using, yes, tomake sure that the baton's got
full support behind it.
Whereas yours is basically likeputting another stud over the
outside.
SPEAKER_02 (20:10):
Exactly right.
That was probably the mainrationale for the product in the
first place was to do away withthe need for a second structural
provision in behind yourventilation uh baton.
Um, so LVL obviously has aunique set of mechanical
properties that allow it to beuh you know smaller primarily.
So we've got a 50 and a 70mmproduct, depending on wind
(20:33):
region, that will um that willspan across either a 450 or a
600 frame.
50 millimeter will do mostly uheverything up to N3 on both sort
of frame centers.
But just that simple provisionof having to not having to worry
about um exactly like you say,frame layout and allowing for a
cross a horizontal cross memberto support a uh ventilated baton
(20:56):
is a massive time saving.
And that was that was really thethe reason that we sort of
wanted to develop this was tosave time, have a one size fits
all component that goes straighton the wall without too much
extra rework.
SPEAKER_05 (21:07):
Yeah.
So what can it span?
Like if you if you're runningthis uh vertically for uh
weatherboard, let's sayweatherboard cladding, yep, what
how far can it span?
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
So we have a different product for
weatherboard, um, which is uh 42by 35 runs vertically.
Uh that'll span 1350, so up to aum on a you know, two seven
wall, top plate, middle, bottomplate, that'll that'll standard
span across that.
Uh these ones are obviouslydesigned to run horizontally, so
600 max max spacing for uh forall the wall buttons.
SPEAKER_05 (21:38):
Mate, I'm really excited about the vertical ones.
Like the last um probably threeto four jobs that we've done the
way we're currently doing it,has there's been an enormous
amount of labor.
Yeah.
Um, and as what as much as theteam try to get everything right
and um get everything set outduring um while we're stick
framing to get like make sure weum have solid stud work behind
(22:02):
all the joins and all thosetypes of things, you're always
going back and putting timber inhere, there, and everywhere.
Yes.
Um the fact now that we can justgo through, mark all our frames
out, get all our junctions, allour priority studs in place, and
then just space everything outat 450 centres, um, and then
just come through and put ourrows and nogs in.
Yep.
Um, and this stuff, like when wedo that come to doing this,
(22:25):
we'll just be able to nail ittop, bottom, and center.
Yep.
We'll screw it.
Yep.
Um is just going to saveenormous amounts of time and
material.
SPEAKER_02 (22:33):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I think so.
If we're talking also about uhhorizontal application, you're
not necessarily guessing whereyour fasteners are going because
you know there's a a straightrun of baton all the way along
your wall, which again, youknow, in terms of uh takes the
guesswork out of your fixingmethod.
SPEAKER_05 (22:48):
Yeah.
Um because you're you're alsoworking with a company to supply
fixings for these, aren't you?
SPEAKER_02 (22:53):
Yeah, so as uh we've got um we've got so we've got a
list of generic fixings that wesupply for this.
Basically, so normal, normalfasteners out of your normal um
fastener array.
But uh we also yeah, we'relooking at um a few different
screws from Simpson Strong Tie,which are collated screws.
So they're basically part oftheir um quick drive system to
(23:16):
allow speed of install acrossthe uh across the batons.
So they're also really great,really good quality product.
SPEAKER_05 (23:22):
Yeah, awesome.
We use our gear a lot.
So we've got a collated gun.
So you'll you'll have a havethey got that now?
Is that something you're workingon?
The collated screw for these?
SPEAKER_02 (23:30):
No, that we've we've that's all on that's all ready
to go.
So we've got we've got two,depending on whether it's you
know timber or steel frame, twofasteners to go on either.
So yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (23:39):
Unreal.
Yeah.
Um so mate, tell you've got aroof button as well.
Yes.
And at this stage in my buildingbusiness, when we're not using
um, we're not going for passivehouse, so we're not putting the
full wrap over the roof andthose types of things.
But I'd really like your baton.
Everyone else I've seen uhhaving to do counterbatten, yes,
(24:00):
that you've developed a batonthat you only basically need the
one button.
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
Absolutely.
So look, it was uh I'd say thattwo parts for the wall button
and exact same sort of rationalefor the roof button.
Wall batten, we were trying tosimplify uh needing a structural
sub-provision for yourventilation uh material, and
also trying to simplify on it ona counterbatten method.
So obviously, for and I'm surethat many of your listeners
(24:24):
under are well aware of thecounterbatten process, but
having a vertical and horizontalcounterbatten um to achieve an
air gap in behind your cladding,it's excellent for ventilation,
absolutely.
It does a great job ofventilating.
SPEAKER_05 (24:36):
Just to explain it for the roof, because again, a
lot of the listeners are stillvery new to this and asking lots
of questions.
So, but typically on a roofscenario, you have to use a
counterbatten, don't you?
SPEAKER_02 (24:46):
Uh yeah, to in order to achieve ventilation over your
membrane, absolutely, you've gotto have a counterbatten.
Now, in this instance, uh whatthat sort of is, you have a
packer type button to provideyour air gap up from your roof,
and then a horizontal baton likeyou would have a normal roof
button.
Um this sort of you knowcombines them.
So you've got your ventilationbuilt into your roof button.
(25:08):
Again, it's a structural LVL, soit'll free span across your uh
rafters, you know, as a normalroof button would.
Um, but also it gives you thatthat ventilation.
SPEAKER_05 (25:18):
Yeah, so you the bottom of the baton has all the
grooves in it.
Yes.
So by just planting it on top ofthe membrane, any moisture
that's traveling down the roofcan still track through all
those.
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (25:30):
So instead of having uh instead of having a beveled
edge, obviously, because it itis actually in a in a situation
where the pitch of the roof willallow your moisture to fall
away, it just goes straight on.
Like very much like you'd pitcha tile roof.
Um similar install, you know,you put your membrane down and
your batons straight on.
SPEAKER_05 (25:47):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, there's so many,definitely so many benefits to
using it.
Um one of the ones that I it'sbeen a little bit controversial
on some of the posts I've beendoing recently on my socials,
um, talking about the treatment.
Sure.
Um, and look, this is I guessI've been lucky, but this is
I'll put my hand up and say,like, this is actually something
I wasn't aware of um a few yearsago.
(26:09):
It's only I've only become awareof it in the last sort of 12 to
18 months.
But a lot of membranes reactwith certain treatments that if
they come in contact with them.
So you certainly can.
How um, and look, I'm justlucky.
I I reached out to some guysdown Victoria that have been
doing this for years when I wasgetting started with it, uh,
(26:32):
they would they told me the bestproduct to use was CCA um
timber, which is uh correct meif I'm wrong, it's pressure
treated, isn't it?
CCA.
Um so the CCA isn't reactive tothe building wrap.
Um, but I'm sure there's a lotof people out there that have
put uh LOSP or other treatmentsagainst their building wrap.
(26:55):
You're using a waterborneproduct, aren't you?
Yeah.
And what sort of treatment leveldoes that get you?
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
So it gives you a H3, a full, a full H3.
So this material is robustexternally.
Now, obviously, it's not in anexternal application, but it's
it's a H3, a fully certified H3process.
Waterborne, um, so you you knowyou you mitigate your reactivity
issues.
Uh but yeah, absolutely.
I mean, a H3 is important for usuh in terms of longevity.
(27:21):
I mean, it's a structuralmaterial, it is in a moisture
environment.
We want to bulletproof itagainst anything moisture
related.
So H3 treatment is is excellentfor that, um, but we also don't
want it to react with anythingthat's underneath it.
So we've we've elected to usewaterborne treatment across our
range, which um which uh yeah,has served us well.
Uh and it's also you know, it'sa really good quality treatment
(27:42):
process, which um we'reconfident in.
SPEAKER_05 (27:44):
I'd imagine that's better for the environment as
well, isn't it?
Uh look, I believe so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, but the other so on that,uh, a lot of people have been
telling me that I'm I don't needto be using a treated batten.
And I'd I argue with them onthis.
I personally my personal opinionis like a lot of what we're
(28:06):
talking about is to do withmoisture.
Yes.
So there is moisture in thatcavity.
That's right.
And look, I don't know if it'speople that haven't had enough
experience in the industry ormaybe haven't seen uh what
happens to timber when it failsfrom moisture.
Like untreated timber doesn'tneed a lot of moisture to fail.
SPEAKER_00 (28:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_05 (28:27):
Um, so to me it's a no-brainer.
Like you if you're using a uhtimber product in a cavity that
is dealing with moisture, itshould be treated.
SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
Look, I I I completely agree.
Um particularly, I mean, I canspeak certainly with with regard
to our structural material,being an LVL.
If there's any, and timber andwater of timber of any
description and water are notthe best of friends, as we all
know, but um any any latentmoisture that may dwell in the
(28:59):
cavity.
I mean, we uh obviously with theshape and profile of material,
or and I'll probably broadenthat out to any ventilated
cavity for that matter, whetherit be it our product or any
other way to achieve cavityventilation, it is a far more
ideal circumstance for timber tobe in because it's got airflow,
right?
That that isn't that is a muchbetter situation for it to be
in.
Having said that, uh we mighthave a wet week, met wet month,
(29:24):
for example, uh, where thatmoisture can't fully dissipate.
Um I personally would like myespecially a structural timber
to be uh galvanized againstthat, you know, to be to be
treated, to be H3 treated, to beuh robust in that circumstance.
SPEAKER_05 (29:39):
Well, my my theory is like if we want to truly
build healthy homes, we have tobe building buildings that are
lasting hundreds of years, not30 or 40 or 50.
Yep.
Um and to me, an untreated pieceof timber won't last that long
in a cavity.
Um and again, I'm this.
(30:00):
Is I just I go down all theserabbit holes.
I I just I drive myself crazy.
Like my wife reckons she canhear me thinking when I'm
sleeping, but um like you'veonly got to look at a any timber
product that you may haveoutside your home.
Like even if it's not in a fullywet environment, but like a a
(30:20):
piece of outdoor furniture, orum I guess I've got some
examples around my place.
Like we could live on acreage,we've got a lot of gardening
tools, rakes and things, likeanything that is left outside
deteriorates quite quickly.
And even if it's not getting wetall the time, like just
different times of the year,like you think about it, you go
(30:42):
outside and you've you've got abit of moisture um on your
grass, a bit of jewel something,like there's always moisture
around.
Yeah, so yeah, like I said, tome, it's a no-brainer, like to
get considering that it's in acavity where we're dealing with
moisture that's coming outthrough the wall and moisture
that is coming in through uh theexternal claddings, um to last
(31:06):
the the test of time, which tome should be hundreds of years,
it it needs to be treated.
SPEAKER_02 (31:12):
Absolutely, and where you know treatment
technology has also come a verylong way.
Um, and those those processesare getting better and better.
So, and and to me, it's it's nota not a major step to make to to
sort of like I said, use theword galvanized, you know, but
but to to future proof thatmaterial, you know, it's um it's
I I believe it's worth doing.
And certainly something thatwe've uh we've you know, it's
(31:33):
core to our product is having arobust H3 treatment across the
board.
SPEAKER_05 (31:37):
Yeah.
I'm probably putting you on thespot here, but like I know LVL's
have been around for a very longtime.
Like what is the life expectancyof an LVL in the right
environment?
SPEAKER_02 (31:46):
Uh depending on it, so these have lifetime.
So depending on uh it it reallydepends on manufacturers and
those sorts of things.
But um LVL if detailed correctlyshould last for a very, very
long time.
SPEAKER_05 (31:57):
Yeah, like if it if it's in the right environment,
it's it's kept out of moisture,it I would imagine it's a piece
of timber, it's gonna lastforever.
SPEAKER_02 (32:03):
Yes.
Yeah, look, it again, it's um itdoes depend on a on a few
different factors, but uh thedetail around it and how it's
installed is very important.
But um, I mean, especially nowthat LVL, you know, a lot of LVL
components are becoming muchmore popular.
Um it's yeah, it's certainlysomething that needs to be
(32:24):
treated correctly, but if it is,it should last for a very long
time.
SPEAKER_05 (32:27):
Yeah, I know sustainability is a word that
gets thrown around a lot thesedays.
Like uh are your batonssustainably made?
SPEAKER_02 (32:34):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So look, we uh have been veryselective about the origin of
the raw material.
Um uh, you know, to do with uhsustainability as far as
forestry, um, all those types ofuh practices are important to
us.
Um but LVL as a concept is avery sustainable way to make
(32:56):
timber products.
So again, I would give a verybrief crash course in laminated
materials.
SPEAKER_05 (33:02):
But it's I'm sure our listeners are love this.
Like we, if they're anythinglike me, like I'd really like to
know about the products I'musing.
So go for go for goal.
SPEAKER_02 (33:11):
So uh a way an LVL is made, so we personally don't
actually manufacture the LVL, wewe process the raw material into
the shape that you see there.
But an LVL is made by probablythe best way to describe it is
matching a giant pencilsharpener.
So whole logs go into anenormous pencil sharpener, you
know, uh lathe sort of setup.
(33:32):
And basically the veneer ispeeled from the log as it spins.
So in terms of recovery ofresource, you get a lot, you get
an excellent return from theamount of log that's used, which
is uh in itself is a greatpractice.
Um again in that space,technology in in recovery of the
resource itself has come leapsand bounds.
(33:53):
Um and you're leadingmanufacturers of LVL around the
world are trying to find ways tomake that that the resource
recovery side of it as good aspossible, which I think is
fantastic.
I think it I think it's a reallygood way to use you know,
timber, which is in itself arenewable resource.
Um I think I think themanufacturing of LVL is a really
good way to sort of recoverthat.
(34:13):
So there's there's that side ofthings.
Um uh it's all plantation grown,so it's all sustainably,
sustainably grown.
Um but absolutely, yeah,absolutely.
Timber as a as a whole is a is asustainable material, it's a
true sustainable, uh, which issomething that I I think is now
getting its time in the sun,which is fantastic.
I think timber as a as a wholeis sort of starting to get a bit
(34:35):
more of a mainstream focus.
I've started to notice a lotmore timber in you know
commercial construction and thewhole concept of mass timber and
cross land timber and all thosesorts of things are starting to
become more prevalent, which Ithink is really good.
SPEAKER_05 (34:47):
I love it, man.
Um it really excites me.
To me, um, look, nothing againstreligion.
I'm not I'm not really areligious person, never been to
church and things, but I I dobelieve that everything on this
planet's put here for a reason.
Yep.
And there is certain types oftrees that have been put here
for us to build things with.
Yeah.
Like, and so like having thatplantation grown timber, like
(35:07):
that's what it's for.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Like it's no good for anythingelse.
Like it's um, but the um itexcites me that they've been
able to like LVL really, if theydidn't use that timber to
produce LVL, it's pretty uselessfor other things.
Like they make it structural bythe way they laminate it all
together, don't they?
SPEAKER_02 (35:28):
Well, so the veneers are graded themselves.
So every every every log that'speeled has a you know, the the
veneers themselves have a have astructural or a density rating.
But it is an amazing concept tothink that if you peel something
apart, lay it together andre-glue it, it comes back as a a
strong, versatile buildingmaterial.
To me, that's something that'salways fascinated me.
(35:49):
Um and uh I I personally am ofthe belief that LVL as a as a
raw material category has got uha lot a lot further to go in our
industry.
Um I mean, one of thecornerstones for us, our our
business sort of tagline istimber reimagined, which is what
we're trying to sort of go foris actually taking a uh you know
(36:09):
a material that's an excellentversatile building material and
turn it into things that servedifferent purposes.
SPEAKER_05 (36:16):
Yeah, because of how much they recover, like um I've
done a few trips down to theHine uh Tumba Rumba sawmill and
um a few different factories,I've been to an LVL factory and
um the X Land factory, allthose.
And what excites me is theminimal waste.
Yep.
Like because an LVL, like whenyou think of just normal stick
(36:36):
framing, like if you want asix-meter piece of timber,
you've got to get a six, like auh probably an eight or
nine-meter straight piece oftree to be able to get that out
of.
So the old-fashioned way, Iguess, that we've been building
where we've always wanted thelongest lengths of timber we we
can get, um, isn't the mostefficient way or the most
(36:57):
efficient use of our forestry.
But like when you consider thatLVL can take any size tree and
recover so much of that tree,and then by gluing it and
laminating it all together, um,as you said, produce it back
into a structural member that'sprobably stronger than where it
started.
SPEAKER_02 (37:13):
Well, and and and into enormous, you know, very
long, straight lengths.
It's um it's incredible.
It's incredible.
So look, we're we're we as uh asa business are pretty um pretty
adamant on the fact that it'sit's got it's got long legs in
our in our constructionindustry, and that that's
already sort of taking shape asit currently stands.
But um, yeah, butsustainability, it certainly is
(37:36):
uh is a very good component ofthe of the material itself.
SPEAKER_05 (37:40):
Um so mate, we've we've covered a lot already.
So we've we've talked about theum waterborne H3 treatment.
Um I actually wrote down somenotes today because I wanted to
make sure we didn't forgetanything because uh I am your
this product really does exciteme.
Um we've talked about the likeventilated cavity and and why
it's important to have a cavitybatten system.
(38:01):
Um we've talked a little bitabout condensation.
Uh we might just touch on that alittle bit more.
So uh condensation can come bothways, can't it?
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (38:12):
So the probably the two analogies I would use.
Um, certainly for your your hothumid climates, you imagine like
a can of soft drink, a cold canof soft drink out in the hot
summer's day.
You imagine the condensationthat forms on the outside of
that that can that's to do withmoisture coming from the air
that's sort of beating on theoutside of that material.
(38:34):
So the you I would liken that toa cooled, air-conditioned home.
So humidity in the air will willbead on the outside of your
membrane.
Same sort of thing in in thehot, humid climates.
In the in the cooler climates,it's more to do with uh moisture
vapour that is formed inside thehome.
SPEAKER_05 (38:53):
Yeah, so either way, you've like in any climate,
you've got moisture getting intothat cavity and sitting there.
That's right.
Yeah, and um, I guess that leadsus into another one I want to
talk about, which is uh umincoming changes to the NCC.
Yep.
So the Australian NationalConstruction Code.
Yep.
Are you able to update us alittle bit on that?
SPEAKER_02 (39:15):
Absolutely.
So look, we and there has beenit has been a little bit of a um
uh I I've heard a lot of sort ofmixed opinions about that as a
concept.
Uh certainly as far as we seeit, the the NCC for 2025, which
is currently sitting asproposed, was delayed.
So it was meant to roll out alittle bit earlier in the year.
Uh it's been delayed.
(39:36):
Um but at this very moment intime, it is the NCC for 2025
will proceed once it'sfinalised.
We've talked about pausing theNCC from that point on.
Our understanding is that theNCC will once 2025 is rolled
out, from that point onwards,we'll see a pause up until
mid-2029 is the current state ofplay.
(39:58):
The proposed changes that arewithin that, uh, so certainly
some stuff around energyefficiency.
Um probably the one that relatesmost to the cavity ventilation
and condensation side of thingsis for climate zones six through
eight, which is the southernclimates.
So we have a little bit inQueensland, but most of uh it it
sort of is primarily New SouthWales, Victoria, Tasmania, and
(40:21):
the southern part of WesternAustralia.
Cooler climates, more or less.
So six, seven, and eight um willrequire uh a vapor permeable
membrane on on a lightweightframe.
SPEAKER_05 (40:33):
So these are these are coming in this year.
SPEAKER_02 (40:36):
Yes, yes.
So they they're currentlysitting as proposed.
Uh, but when that is finalized,the changes are around climate
zone six, seven, and eightrequiring a drained vented
cavity and requiring a vaporpermeable membrane, among other
things.
But that those are certainly asfar as it relates to
condensation in your walls,those are a major uh component
of that.
SPEAKER_05 (40:57):
Yeah.
Um I'll just apologise, it'sabsolutely blowing a gale
outside the shed today.
You might be able to hear a bitof the uh the wind noise, but um
because that you've clarified itfor me, because I know um
although I don't watch a lot ofmedia or listen to it, I have
heard a lot of um talk only inthe last month or two that the
changes are being put on hold.
SPEAKER_04 (41:17):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (41:17):
And so I thought it was all the changes.
Yep.
But um, from what you're myunderstanding from talking to
you and some other people isthat yeah, this is something
that's happening.
Like, and and very soon.
SPEAKER_02 (41:28):
Yes, and look, it's something also that's been
flagged as important.
So, look, our understanding iscertainly that that 2025, once
finalised, will roll ahead.
Um, but probably more broadly,it's something that we as an
industry have recognized as animportant addition to our
construction code.
Um, so look, we've you know, weobviously have uh builders
(41:51):
throughout the country that areadopting uh cavity ventilation
as a as a concept, as a bestpractice measure.
You know, it's it's somethingthat people are more and more
starting to realize that is umit's it's a good way to build.
It's a very easy way, relativelyspeaking, to dissipate moisture
in your home.
Um so we have we're we'verecognized that it's a it's a
thing.
Um and that's I think that's areally good step for our our
(42:13):
code as well.
SPEAKER_05 (42:14):
Oh 100%, mate.
And look, to be honest, I I'mdefinitely down a rabbit hole
with it now, and I think it's anabsolute no-brainer.
Like it every single structurethat is built should have a
cavity system.
Like once you understand whyit's there, how it works, and
probably for me, the biggestthing getting my head around was
just breaking all like it was itwas literally breaking 25 years
(42:37):
of the industry and um knowledgethat I'd been taught and learnt
and been to seminars, um, andunderstanding that our cladding
systems are not our waterprooflayer.
Like um, I know even just as anapprentice, my my employer just
drummed it into me like gettingall our cuts tight around uh
(42:59):
flashings and over roofs andthings, and like really trying
hard to make our claddingwatertight.
Um and I think back now, likethat was awesome, it taught me
good quality and things, but itit was never ever gonna stop all
the moisture getting in.
And especially back like well,28 years ago, like we were using
(43:19):
the shitty old foil bloody andwe and we weren't doing it
anywhere near as good as what weprobably should have been.
Um But I one thing I reallywanted to get see what your
opinion on was like I'm a bigbeliever is uh I'm a big
believer in the building codeshould be our bare minimum.
Yes.
Like it shouldn't be somethingthat builders are trying to aim
(43:41):
for.
Like it should be a bare minimumthat we're trying to exceed and
do better than.
Um, what's your opinion on that?
SPEAKER_02 (43:48):
Look, I agree, I agree.
Um, I have to say I I've in inrecent times, particularly
around the the new stuff that'sthat's starting to be proposed.
So look at you know, energyefficiency and and then
condensation management.
I think um uh I was personallyfelt quite good about the fact
that those those things arestarting to get recognized.
(44:09):
I think that's that it's it's areally good step.
Um but absolutely I think Ithink we should always be
striving for best practiceregardless of where we sit in
the industry.
Um it's uh I mean for a lot ofpeople uh for for many, you
know, your home is it's not onlya major investment, it's also
where you spend a lot of yourmost of your time, you know,
it's it's where you sleep, it'swhere you eat.
(44:32):
All those things, for mepersonally, I I think that if I
were if I had my you know handson the levers as far as what was
going into the production of myhome, uh I'd want that to be as
good as it could be, you know,within within reason.
Um now I think that the codeabsolutely reflects that and is
is uh is working towardsreflecting that always, which I
think is great.
(44:53):
Um but absolutely I agree thatyou we should always be striving
for best practice regardless.
SPEAKER_05 (44:58):
Yeah, and I think that's that was a big driver for
me.
Like now that I know what Iknow, I I'm doing it for
multiple reasons, but the bigdriver for me um going down this
rabbit hole and learning moreabout this um was to do with
health.
Yeah.
Like and just starting to getthat understanding that the
homes that my building businessis building play an enormous
(45:19):
role on the health of theoccupants of that that move into
that house.
Yes.
Um, and obviously that like theynow that's coming out in our
building code, like it's prettyobvious that that there's signs
out there that our homes areaffecting um the health of
people that live in them.
Yes, especially with mould.
Yes.
Um and obviously the maincontributor to mould is
(45:43):
moisture.
Absolutely.
Um so yeah, I I am prettyconcerned knowing what I know
now about the next probably Idon't know, five to fifteen
years, I think.
I I do feel we're gonna see alot of homes uh that do suffer
from a lot of uh mould and thattype of thing.
So I do think as builders, likeI I take it very personally.
(46:05):
I I believe it's myresponsibility to make sure that
I deliver my clients the bestpossible thing that I can.
And now now understanding howmuch it's affecting their
health, it it's myresponsibility to make sure that
I I'm using the best products,I'm reaching out to people like
yourself, I'm I'm understandingmore about the product you're
you're using, like you'remaking, where it comes from, how
(46:26):
it's made, how it performs.
Yeah, so that I can make surethe product that I'm putting in
my house is the best possibleproduct I can use.
SPEAKER_03 (46:33):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (46:34):
Um yeah, I'm mate, I'm really excited to see uh
where you guys end up.
Yeah.
Um, and I'm definitely look, Iencourage all my listeners um
that listen to this podcast touh reach out to the guys.
So where can they find you,mate?
What's the best way?
SPEAKER_02 (46:48):
We're in hardware's around Australia.
So if um if you want to contactyour sort of your local timber
and hardware business, theyshould be able to give us a call
and we'll be able to figuresomething out.
SPEAKER_05 (46:58):
Yeah, but like if they want to go online and look
your own.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (47:01):
So our uh everything's Highwood Timber
across the board.
So our website ishighwood.com.au, um highwood
timber on Instagram andFacebook.
SPEAKER_05 (47:10):
Yeah, we're gonna ramp his fa his Instagram up,
guys.
We'll get some more shit goingon there.
Absolutely, absolutely.
This um this next job that we'redoing, we're we're gonna be
using uh all the wall products,so we'll definitely be doing
some video and and talking abouta lot.
So stay tuned for that.
But um, mate, I I really thankyou for taking the time out to
uh come on and and have a chatabout this.
SPEAKER_01 (47:29):
Oh thank you very much.
I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_05 (47:31):
Um, it's definitely something that I want to see um
in more jobs and see more peopleusing.
Uh I'm really excited about it.
I I can see the value it's gonnaadd to my jobs.
Yep.
Um just one last thing before wewrap it up that I've had on my
notes here that we didn't getto.
The using a baton system alsohelps your R value, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (47:52):
Yes, yeah.
So there's there's sort of twoconcepts in that space um still
air and moving air.
But either way, if you've got ifyou've got um air itself is a
good insulator.
So air layers in in any sort ofcontext add to your thermal
performance of your wall.
Still air is actually betterthan moving air, but in order to
(48:13):
keep the cavity dry, you needthe air to be moving.
So it's it's a bit of a uh Isuppose double-edged sword in
that sense.
But either way, it certainlyimproves the thermal value of
your wall.
Uh the probably what I would useas again an analogy in that is
imagine like a puffer jacket.
So, you know, we think about thethe air sort of pockets around a
puffer jacket, a very similarconcept for an insulated wall.
(48:36):
Obviously, we've got the thebats to provide insulation, but
an air gap is also just a reallyeffective way to bolster that
that performance.
So, yeah, absolutely it can.
SPEAKER_05 (48:45):
It's exciting to see where it's going to end up.
Like when you consider the rolethat technology is playing in
our industry now, yeah.
Um across the board, like inlike forestry, manufacturing,
uh, I imagine like even thegluing and gluing process and
all those types of things.
SPEAKER_02 (49:00):
Like, oh, absolutely.
It's it's uh the technology inin all those industries is is
growing at at exactly the samerate, you know.
I we're um we're the luckyrecipient of the the finished
product, which comes in a verynice, neat setup.
But oh, it's it's incredible tosee how it's how it's made.
And um I think more broadly, allthe technology that's going into
(49:22):
timber now and the fact thattimber's starting to get a bit
of a look in in the commercialworld, I think it's also really
exciting.
I mean, you don't have to looktoo far outside of Australia to
see uh and even withinAustralia, there's I was down in
Victoria recently and saw a uman opening to a tunnel which has
been built out of CLT, which isincredible.
Big uh, you know, sort ofcommercial infrastructure
(49:43):
projects that are now startingto incorporate, you know, mass
timber as a concept.
I think in general that's that'sexcellent.
I mean, from a from a carbonstandpoint, it's it's fantastic
as far as it you know embodiedcarbon um in the production.
Yeah, I mean, for for for a longlist of reasons, I I feel like
it's it's an exciting sort ofmaterial that we're just now
(50:05):
starting to get you know fullexposure to, which is great.
SPEAKER_05 (50:08):
Awesome, mate.
Well, yeah, look, like I said,the other exciting thing is I've
seen where you guys end up withthis.
Like I know you um I'm sure youwon't stop at these first few
products.
There'll be uh more Highwood LVLproducts coming, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_02 (50:19):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's um yeah, we're we'recertainly trying to uh to push
the envelope with what we cancome up with here.
But um, yeah, absolutely.
There will be more.
SPEAKER_05 (50:28):
Love it.
Well, mate, look, thanks verymuch for coming on the podcast.
Um, I really appreciate yourtime.
Guys, get behind the guys atHighwood.
Uh, if you're if you're buildinghealthy homes already or or
passive homes and you're usingcavity batten systems, like
seriously, this product is anabsolute no-brainer.
Um, like I said, it's the thebest one that I've come across.
Um, I believe in it a lot.
(50:50):
Uh, they've taken you've takencare of everything that we need
to try and deal with.
Like, um, so and it's off theshelf.
So um, guys, get behind them.
As always, look, make sure yougo to the DwaynePearce.com um
website, purchase your merch,get behind the level up
movement, uh, and continue tomake this Australia's number one
construction podcast.
We'll see you on the next one.
(51:12):
All right, guys, I want tointroduce you to a really
exciting new product that Ibelieve is going to play a
massive role in Australiabuilding healthier homes.
As you all know, I am extremelypassionate about healthy homes
and I'm doing a lot of researchand putting a lot of time and
effort into making sure myconstruction business is leading
the way when it comes tobuilding healthy homes here in
(51:33):
Australia.
We've teamed up with the guysfrom Highwood Timber.
Highwood Timber are pioneeringcondensation management with
their high flow ventilated LVLbaton system.
High flow battons give buildersa stronger, straighter, and
smarter way to create aventilated cavity behind
cladding and underneath roofswithout compromising on
(51:55):
structural performance.
While tackling condensation toimprove building health and ease
of insulation, highwood battonsare built to perform.
When it comes to dealing withcondensation and ventilation,
high flow battons will help youcreate continuous ventilated
cavities behind all yourcladding and underneath your
roof sheeting.
They reduce condensation riskand support healthier, longer
(52:18):
lasting buildings.
Highwood timber battons are alsoin alignment with the proposed
NCC condensation managementrequirements as well as passive
house ventilation requirements.
Being an engineered LVL product,they are stronger, straighter,
and more dimensionally stablethan a solid material such as
pine.
This helps resist warping,twisting, and shrinkage,
(52:39):
ensuring more consistentinstalls less prone to splitting
than solid timber.
Howwood timber battons areprecisely manufactured, meaning
that your installation will befaster and easier than other
products on the market.
The part that I like the mostabout these battons are they are
H3 treated for long-termprotection against decay and
turmoiles.
They use a waterborne H3treatment which reduces
(53:02):
reactivity with membranes andadhesives when compared to LOSP.
These are the exact battens thatyou want to be using on your
homes and your builds if you areconsidering building healthier
homes or passive homes.
Check 'em out.
How would Timber products?
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Level
Up.
We are back in the shed thisafternoon for another cracking
episode.
This one is something that I'mincredibly passionate about at
the moment.
And I'm actually on a mission.
If you haven't heard it on myother podcasts, I want to become
one of Australia's leadinghealthy home builders.
We're definitely taking healthyhomes very seriously in our
(00:28):
building business.
Spending a lot of time, a lot ofeffort researching,
collaborating, talking topeople.
So the guest I've got with metoday is actually someone that
we've teamed up with.
They've come on board, they'regoing to be one of our sponsors
for this podcast because Ibelieve in what they're uh the
what their product and whatthey're doing.
(00:48):
So I'm really looking forward totoday's podcast because I think
there's going to be a lot ofeducation, a lot of knowledge
shared.
So a massive warm welcome toNick from Highwood Products,
mate.
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
I'm very well.
I'm very well, Duane.
Thanks for having me.
It's a privilege to be on airtoday.
I'm really looking forward tothe conversation.
It'd be great.
SPEAKER_05 (01:05):
Well, mate, I think like you, your product
definitely plays a massive rolein what I'm trying to achieve.
Sure.
Um, and even just from thelittle bits and pieces that I
put out on my socials, I cantell that there's a lot more
education needed.
Sure.
Like, yep.
Um, so I guess uh to let youknow um about Nick's product.
So Nick is has developed an Lengineered LVL uh batten system
(01:30):
for walls and roofs.
Yep, absolutely.
Um and let's face it, like it'sit's a very crucial part if
you're aiming to have a healthyor a passive home.
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
Spot on.
So it's the the primary functionof the of the material is to
provide ventilation and drainagethrough your wall cavity.
It looks like a simple design,and it really is a simple uh
product to achieve a relativelycomplex result.
But basically what it does is itallows any moisture that builds
up inside your building thatpasses through your vapor
(02:00):
permeable membrane to be drainedand ventilated away from your
wall frame, which keeps yourwall cavity dry, keeps the
inside of the home dry, andstops any moisture-related
issues that form in your wallsystem uh from having sort of
long long-term negative impactson your home.
So, I mean, nowadays, especiallyuh as that conversation has
(02:21):
started to become moremainstream, uh, people are much
more aware of the fact that youknow mould, uh condensation, and
any sort of associated issueswith that can have long-term
health impacts, could also havelong-term impacts on the quality
of your frame.
Uh, all these things uh areimportant to be aware of and
important to manage.
Uh, so we think we've come upwith a really simple solution to
(02:41):
doing exactly that.
Um, probably where it'sdifferent is it's a structural
material as well.
So, you know, it'll free spanacross your studs, hold the
weight of your cladding.
SPEAKER_05 (02:50):
Yeah.
Definitely keen to get into thatmore.
Sure.
Just to go back a little bit,because a lot of the questions
I'm getting on my socials ispeople asking why.
Why are we even putting a cavitybaton on our jobs?
SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
Sure.
So to give it a bit of anoverview on the cavity space,
basically, moisture, the mainreason that we've got uh
vapor-permeable membranes in ourhomes now, and it's starting to
become a bit more of aconversation, is moisture
accumulates in two differentplaces.
It can come out of the air fromthe outside of your building.
Uh, but the more common example,and what most of the cavity
(03:24):
systems that we're looking attoday are addressing is moisture
that actually comes from insidethe building.
SPEAKER_05 (03:29):
It can it can uh be different depending on your
climate zone.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (03:33):
Yes, absolutely.
It can be it can it can varyclimate zone to climate zone,
but um any moisture that passesthrough that membrane's got to
have somewhere to go, right?
So the vapor membranes areexcellent at getting that
moisture out and passing themoisture through, but if they've
got nowhere to escape that wallcavity, essentially you've just
got latent moisture that'ssitting in between your cladding
and your frame, which unlessventilated, can cause mold.
SPEAKER_05 (03:57):
How where we might can we talk a little bit about
your background?
Yeah.
Like because um you're verypassionate about timber.
SPEAKER_02 (04:04):
Yes, yes.
I um I've since I left highschool been in the timber
industry more or less.
So worked in hardware.
My first job out of high schoolwas cooking the barbecue on a
Saturday at my local hardwarestore, um, which was great.
Sort of worked my way up intodoing um uh sales and sort of uh
(04:25):
had a few builder accounts andthat sort of thing.
So got a got a good feel for thebuilding industry and came to
love it.
Um did a stint up at theSunshine Coast for in the sort
of sales around the supply andinstall of solid timber
flooring.
Solid and engineered timberflooring.
So that that was probably a goodum a really good insight into
(04:46):
timber as it performs,particularly timber as it
performs in in moisture.
So um I'm sure you've and I'mnot sure if you guys have even
when you install your floors, ifyou install your own floors or
you have uh, you know, aflooring contract to come in.
But either way, um you'd be wellaware of the fact that timber
likes to take on and and anddissipate moisture.
(05:09):
So that that sort of taught meabout uh timber and moisture as
a as a concept uh and makingsure that's correctly managed.
It also made me um uh gave me abit of an exposure to engineered
timber as a concept and how uhstable it can be as a as a
concept.
Uh and then spent a bit of timein wholesale uh engineered wood
product in LVL as well.
So have always just sort of beenin the in the timber industry
(05:30):
and have really grown to loveit.
I mean, I think like we coveredoff earlier, I I believe in
timber as a as a material, assomething that's got really long
legs in our constructionindustry.
Um I you know, I think it'sbeautiful, it's good to look at
it.
You know, it's it's it's a goodfeature in homes.
I like when people use, youknow, timber ceilings and timber
floors and all that sorts ofstuff.
(05:52):
But I think it's it's I probablyagree with what you said
earlier.
I think it's uh it's here to beused, and we we're finding
better ways to use it, which isuh an exciting time for us.
So but to answer your question,I've I've always sort of been
exposed to it.
Um I think always will be.
SPEAKER_05 (06:07):
So that's yeah, it's and look, I'll put my hand up.
Like honestly, it's probablybeen three to four years that
since I sort of startedquestioning why we should be
doing this and and what we'redoing.
Like the last two years, it'sit's our standard practice now,
but it all comes back tobuilding science, doesn't it?
And it and I know like in theStates and Canada and um Europe,
(06:30):
they building science issomething that gets talked about
a lot more.
Like I until recently, I haven'treally noticed it being spoken
about in Australia.
Yes.
And I guess for that reason, andbecause we're not taught that,
like I could I just couldn't putit all together.
And like I didn't reallyunderstand my um like a lot of
(06:51):
the reasons I thought we hadbuilding wraps basically coming
up through my trade and my timeand becoming a builder, and then
like no one ever explained to mewhat the building wrap was
really for.
Sure.
Um, and honestly, I thought itwas more to do with insulation
than um condensation or ormoisture um prevention or
control or whatever you want tocall it.
(07:13):
Yep.
Um, but again, it's one of thosethings like once you know it,
you can't unknow it.
That's right.
As soon as you start tounderstand that our homes create
moisture from the humans thatlive in it, the like cooking,
yep, um, your bathrooms with allthe steam, like there's just do
you do you I I always forget thenumber.
Like it like the average familyof four produces like is over
(07:36):
200 litres of moisture a week.
SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
I couldn't tell you off the top of my head, but it's
a lot, it is a lot, it's a lotmore than we think, definitely.
SPEAKER_05 (07:41):
And so that has to go somewhere.
Yes.
And so I guess for people thatare asking why we use a batten,
if that moisture's comingthrough, and even if you are
using the correct building wrap,like in the past, and and um
even now with claddings peopleare using, that moisture's
stopping at the back of thecladding.
(08:02):
That's right.
So it might be coming throughthe mem the wall wrap, but it's
not going anywhere.
SPEAKER_02 (08:06):
Spot on.
SPEAKER_05 (08:07):
And so if it doesn't go anywhere, especially now that
we've got to fill our walls,like it's code to insulate your
walls, if people aren't using amould-resistant insulation, nine
times out of ten, that moistureis getting trapped and getting
absorbed by the insulation.
Yep, absolutely.
So I don't I'm I don't know,it's probably a whole other
topic and something we can talkabout another day.
(08:29):
But personally, I knowing what Iknow now, I think Australia is
heading towards similar to whatEurope, Canada, New Zealand's
been through, like the LinkyHome syndromes.
Like we we're gonna have a lotof mould issues.
SPEAKER_02 (08:40):
Oh, absolutely.
It's it's it you mentioned NewZealand, I think it's a really
good sort of case in point as tocertainly where I believe the
industry is heading as anAustralian industry, um, and for
good reason, absolutely.
But uh New Zealand uh is is aprobably a great uh and a
well-developed example of uhcondensation now very well
managed in their sort ofbuilding practice.
(09:02):
But if we wind back the clockquite a few years, they were
relying on um well lightweightcladding started to become a bit
more mainstream over there, um,out of a traditionally sort of
block and brick market, relyingon the cladding system for your
your primary sort ofweatherproofing layer that led
to water ingress issues.
SPEAKER_05 (09:20):
Um, but can we like everyone thinks cladding is a
moisture layer, don't they?
To a certain extent, yes.
I do like I that's how I wastaught.
Yep.
Like do your cladding perfectly,sticker up holes.
Like that's your prevention.
SPEAKER_02 (09:35):
Yes, and look, it absolutely is a very, very
significant part of yourprevention, but it's it's uh it
is sort of part and parcel withalso weatherproof membrane.
Absolutely.
So if we sort of take a you knowwalk through history, that was
where we started.
There was a water ingress issue,uh, which was deemed the leaky
homes crisis in New Zealand,which um led to an enormous
(09:56):
amount of rectification costlong term.
The sort of overhaul from thatwas to go to airtight uh
barriers, which were reallyeffective at managing the
moisture from a um from aweather perspective.
So any moisture coming inthrough rain or anything like
that was very effectivelymanaged.
But almost to the extent that itwas too effectively uh managed
(10:18):
and ended up uh building sort ofeskies or equivalent, you know?
SPEAKER_05 (10:22):
Yeah, it's like going for a walk in the rain and
putting a raincade on and likeyou just you sweat inside.
Exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (10:28):
So it was it was excellent at keeping the rain
out, but also excellent atkeeping the moisture in.
So again, vapor-permeablemembranes and vapor permeable uh
weather-resistant barriersstarted to become more
prevalent.
Um, again, they were excellentat doing what they were designed
to do, which was passingmoisture through.
But the issue then became wheredoes that moisture go?
(10:49):
So New Zealand has arrived at avery stock standard cavity
ventilation across the board.
Um, and I believe that's cominghere.
And it certainly is starting toget reflected in in our codes
here and certainly our proposedcodes here.
Um, and I think it's for a goodreason.
I think it's a really effectiveuh way to manage condensation.
SPEAKER_05 (11:06):
Well, a lot of it's not just New Zealand, like a
like a lot of parts of Europeand and America and Canada,
that's their standard practice,isn't it?
That they're they're buildingcavities on the outsides of
their building.
SPEAKER_02 (11:16):
Absolutely.
So I think what do they call itin the US?
It's uh like a furring, furringuh furring screen or rain screen
system.
Um but yeah, exactly right.
So certainly in the northwest ofthe United States, it's very
common practice to have a youknow similar sort of system, you
know, be it a vertical batten ora cross-hatched batten system.
But either way, it's it's uhit's all achieving a very
similar result, which is havinga an unencumbered air slash
(11:40):
moisture path in your wallcavity.
SPEAKER_05 (11:43):
Yeah.
And I guess it is a big rabbithole.
Like there's just so many partsto it, and it it can be
difficult to understand all ofit, but like that's the basics
of it, isn't it?
Like you're you're controllingmoisture.
Yep, absolutely.
You're um by using a goodquality uh building wrap, such
as for a climber, yep.
Um you're preventing anymoisture that's getting in
(12:05):
through your facade, whetherit's lightweight cladding or
brick or block or whatever itmay be from getting into the
building.
But the moisture that's comingout from inside the building,
you're allowing it to either dryor move around.
Yes.
Um and so something else I'velearned through my journey on
(12:27):
this, um, the stack effect,which I'm sure you're aware of.
Like the whole like the otherbig idea of having a cavity is
to get air movement around thethe outside of the building.
So obviously hot air rises, socreating a good cavity that's um
will basically goes from thebottom of your cladding all the
(12:48):
way up your walls over the topsof your roof insulation and out
through a vented ridge cappingor some sort of roof
ventilation.
Yes, the more air movement youhave, obviously that's going to
help the wall stay dry as well.
SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
Absolutely, and and also dissipate heat, which is
you know, uh has a it its ownset of sort of thermal benefits
to your overall wall system.
I mean, we have very hotsummers, um, it you know, it
gets hot sort of year-round, butit's uh it's any way that that
air can pass over your buildingalso helps just the the overall
thermal performance of yourhome.
SPEAKER_05 (13:20):
Yeah, so your batons are designed to do that.
Like they um, I'm not sure if itlike you should be able to pick
it up if you if you're listeningto this, you really should go
and watch uh on YouTube becauseyou'll see Nick's bought in a
little um sample today.
But can you tell us a little bitabout your batons?
Because like they're designed tohelp with all this air movement
(13:41):
and moisture movement and thattype of thing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
So from a design perspective,uh, and again, I'm sure if
anyone's looking at it can seethat it's a it's quite a
straightforward concept.
Um, but the the material is isLVL, structural LVL, uh, with
grooves, air channels slashdrainage vents on either side to
allow an even distribution ofventilation across the wall.
(14:03):
The top edge of the product isbeveled to allow drainage away
from the frame.
So uh, and the the bottom edgestays square basically to allow
that moisture on the front sideof the baton to drip off the
bottom.
So, like a drip strip you wouldhave with cladding, very similar
sort of concept here.
Uh, but it needs to allow thatmoisture a clear path out, down
and out, away from your frame.
(14:26):
Um, it allows an air a certainamount of airflow behind your
cladding.
Now that's uh we've sort of beenguided by uh legislation,
certainly in New Zealand.
So uh without going tootechnical, the the amount of
airflow in order to deem acavity well vented and drained
is 1,000 square millimeters perlineal meter, which is uh you
(14:49):
can achieve why having you knowmultiple grooves that add up to
about a thousand.
When you hear that number,you're like, holy shit, that's
enormous, but it's squaremillimeters.
Square millimeters, that'sright.
So it's not, it's uh it sounds alot more than it actually is,
but it's not nothing.
So it um uh and you can achievethat obviously by having a total
air movement across the baton.
It's got to be evenlydistributed, so you obviously
(15:11):
don't have one area of the wallthat's really well ventilated
and another area that's notventilated at all, um, which you
can achieve by evenlydistributing grooves on either
side of the material.
So our products all achieve orall of our wall products achieve
2,000 square millimeters ofventilation, um, which will
comply with certainly all ofyour uh your upcoming
ventilation requirements.
(15:32):
Um and you know, exceeding thatis also a good option basically
for giving you know as muchairflow as you can.
SPEAKER_05 (15:39):
The more the better.
It's clear.
So um, yeah, not only is ithelping with moisture
management, it's also helpingwith the heating and cooling of
the home.
Yes by getting that airmovement.
Yeah.
Um, there's there's a lot ofparts of this.
So, like obviously, like Nick'shere today to talk about his
product.
Um, I'm going to be talkingabout this sort of thing a lot
on my podcast from now onbecause it it is a whole system.
(16:01):
You've got to have the buildingwrap, you've got to have the
batons, you've got to have uhclav cavity closes, you've got a
vermin proof.
Like, there's there's a there'sa lot of parts to it to do it
well.
Um, and we've definitely beengetting better and better every
job we've been doing over thelast sort of two, two and a half
years.
Um, but one of the things I'venoticed, Nick, on our jobs, and
(16:22):
um, we haven't got a completednew build with Nick's product
yet.
We uh we're very close to it.
We're going to be starting one.
Uh we've got Windows showing upon a job in about 10 weeks or
so.
So we will have a full high-endthree-story uh multi-million
dollar home that we'll be usingthis on and um getting a really
good finish.
Um, but up until I found you andyour product, uh, we've been
(16:48):
using a CCA um 20mm button.
SPEAKER_04 (16:51):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (16:52):
And even just using that, I can't believe the
difference in our homespre-plastering.
Yep.
Like we get the building wrappedup, the building has time to uh
dry out and acclimatize like allthe timber, like we build
lightweight.
So um, and the best example ofthat is a job that we've
(17:12):
literally plastered in the lastthree weeks.
Uh, it sat through all the rainwe got in Queensland earlier
this year, got absolutelysaturated, and we were a little
bit concerned about mould uhgrowing.
Yep.
Um so but being able to get theroof on, use a Proclimber
product, and then working on theoutside of the home, getting all
(17:34):
the batten on, getting all thecladding on, and then all the
rough end work happening on theinside.
So it was sitting there for likea super large home, so it was
sitting there for a considerableamount of time.
The the you can smell it, likeit just it well, there is no
smell.
Like it's it's um like havebeing able to breathe while also
(17:58):
being watertight, yes, lettingand then we moisture test all of
our jobs now before we um putany internal wall linings on.
SPEAKER_00 (18:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (18:05):
But then even now that it's plastered, like I feel
like the house is performingbetter than any like better than
our previous projects even now,and it's not even finished.
Well, there you go.
SPEAKER_02 (18:18):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
It makes sense.
SPEAKER_05 (18:20):
Well, it would be, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
But but just I did well you I'venever realized how I guess and I
guess I'm probably taking morenotice of it now, but um
especially through summers herein Queensland when we we like
let's face it, we get lots ofstorms, we quite often get a lot
of wet weather.
I guess I didn't really takeenough notice of that sort of
(18:42):
misty smell in the jobs.
Yeah, and now that it's notthere, I'm like, man, like this
this is far more, like this isbigger than what I think.
Yes.
Um and so even just noticingthat now, and again, that's why
I'm on this mission to be uh oneof Australia's leading healthy
home builders, yeah.
Like where the homes we build, Inever realized until obviously
(19:04):
getting onto these cavitysystems and things how much our
homes affect our health.
Yes.
And I know you're prettypassionate about that.
SPEAKER_02 (19:12):
Absolutely.
Look, they um they certainly do,and I think it's one of the
things that's uh which is a verygood thing that's now started to
become a bit more of a of aconversation.
Um, whether it's at a selectionend or you know, obviously
you're something that you'repromoting with your clients, but
it's really important, and it'sit's you know, we spend a lot of
time in our homes, and it'simportant that they are a
(19:33):
healthy place to be.
SPEAKER_05 (19:34):
Yeah.
Um, so back to talking aboutyour product.
It you mentioned a couple oftimes, it's structural.
Yes.
Um one thing I love about it isit's LVL.
Yes.
So it's it's size and itsstraightness and all those types
of things are amazing.
Yes, absolutely.
Um, but look, like I said, Ihaven't used it yet, but I can
already see the benefits of itbeing structural.
(19:56):
At the moment, using a 20 mil,like we've got to make sure all
of our framing's set out for ourdepending on the type of
cladding we're using, yes, tomake sure that the baton's got
full support behind it.
Whereas yours is basically likeputting another stud over the
outside.
SPEAKER_02 (20:10):
Exactly right.
That was probably the mainrationale for the product in the
first place was to do away withthe need for a second structural
provision in behind yourventilation uh baton.
Um, so LVL obviously has aunique set of mechanical
properties that allow it to beuh you know smaller primarily.
So we've got a 50 and a 70mmproduct, depending on wind
(20:33):
region, that will um that willspan across either a 450 or a
600 frame.
50 millimeter will do mostly uheverything up to N3 on both sort
of frame centers.
But just that simple provisionof having to not having to worry
about um exactly like you say,frame layout and allowing for a
cross a horizontal cross memberto support a uh ventilated baton
(20:56):
is a massive time saving.
And that was that was really thethe reason that we sort of
wanted to develop this was tosave time, have a one size fits
all component that goes straighton the wall without too much
extra rework.
SPEAKER_05 (21:07):
Yeah.
So what can it span?
Like if you if you're runningthis uh vertically for uh
weatherboard, let's sayweatherboard cladding, yep, what
how far can it span?
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
So we have a different product for
weatherboard, um, which is uh 42by 35 runs vertically.
Uh that'll span 1350, so up to aum on a you know, two seven
wall, top plate, middle, bottomplate, that'll that'll standard
span across that.
Uh these ones are obviouslydesigned to run horizontally, so
600 max max spacing for uh forall the wall buttons.
SPEAKER_05 (21:38):
Mate, I'm really excited about the vertical ones.
Like the last um probably threeto four jobs that we've done the
way we're currently doing it,has there's been an enormous
amount of labor.
Yeah.
Um, and as what as much as theteam try to get everything right
and um get everything set outduring um while we're stick
framing to get like make sure weum have solid stud work behind
(22:02):
all the joins and all thosetypes of things, you're always
going back and putting timber inhere, there, and everywhere.
Yes.
Um the fact now that we can justgo through, mark all our frames
out, get all our junctions, allour priority studs in place, and
then just space everything outat 450 centres, um, and then
just come through and put ourrows and nogs in.
Yep.
Um, and this stuff, like when wedo that come to doing this,
(22:25):
we'll just be able to nail ittop, bottom, and center.
Yep.
We'll screw it.
Yep.
Um is just going to saveenormous amounts of time and
material.
SPEAKER_02 (22:33):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I think so.
If we're talking also about uhhorizontal application, you're
not necessarily guessing whereyour fasteners are going because
you know there's a a straightrun of baton all the way along
your wall, which again, youknow, in terms of uh takes the
guesswork out of your fixingmethod.
SPEAKER_05 (22:48):
Yeah.
Um because you're you're alsoworking with a company to supply
fixings for these, aren't you?
SPEAKER_02 (22:53):
Yeah, so as uh we've got um we've got so we've got a
list of generic fixings that wesupply for this.
Basically, so normal, normalfasteners out of your normal um
fastener array.
But uh we also yeah, we'relooking at um a few different
screws from Simpson Strong Tie,which are collated screws.
So they're basically part oftheir um quick drive system to
(23:16):
allow speed of install acrossthe uh across the batons.
So they're also really great,really good quality product.
SPEAKER_05 (23:22):
Yeah, awesome.
We use our gear a lot.
So we've got a collated gun.
So you'll you'll have a havethey got that now?
Is that something you're workingon?
The collated screw for these?
SPEAKER_02 (23:30):
No, that we've we've that's all on that's all ready
to go.
So we've got we've got two,depending on whether it's you
know timber or steel frame, twofasteners to go on either.
So yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (23:39):
Unreal.
Yeah.
Um so mate, tell you've got aroof button as well.
Yes.
And at this stage in my buildingbusiness, when we're not using
um, we're not going for passivehouse, so we're not putting the
full wrap over the roof andthose types of things.
But I'd really like your baton.
Everyone else I've seen uhhaving to do counterbatten, yes,
(24:00):
that you've developed a batonthat you only basically need the
one button.
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
Absolutely.
So look, it was uh I'd say thattwo parts for the wall button
and exact same sort of rationalefor the roof button.
Wall batten, we were trying tosimplify uh needing a structural
sub-provision for yourventilation uh material, and
also trying to simplify on it ona counterbatten method.
So obviously, for and I'm surethat many of your listeners
(24:24):
under are well aware of thecounterbatten process, but
having a vertical and horizontalcounterbatten um to achieve an
air gap in behind your cladding,it's excellent for ventilation,
absolutely.
It does a great job ofventilating.
SPEAKER_05 (24:36):
Just to explain it for the roof, because again, a
lot of the listeners are stillvery new to this and asking lots
of questions.
So, but typically on a roofscenario, you have to use a
counterbatten, don't you?
SPEAKER_02 (24:46):
Uh yeah, to in order to achieve ventilation over your
membrane, absolutely, you've gotto have a counterbatten.
Now, in this instance, uh whatthat sort of is, you have a
packer type button to provideyour air gap up from your roof,
and then a horizontal baton likeyou would have a normal roof
button.
Um this sort of you knowcombines them.
So you've got your ventilationbuilt into your roof button.
(25:08):
Again, it's a structural LVL, soit'll free span across your uh
rafters, you know, as a normalroof button would.
Um, but also it gives you thatthat ventilation.
SPEAKER_05 (25:18):
Yeah, so you the bottom of the baton has all the
grooves in it.
Yes.
So by just planting it on top ofthe membrane, any moisture
that's traveling down the roofcan still track through all
those.
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (25:30):
So instead of having uh instead of having a beveled
edge, obviously, because it itis actually in a in a situation
where the pitch of the roof willallow your moisture to fall
away, it just goes straight on.
Like very much like you'd pitcha tile roof.
Um similar install, you know,you put your membrane down and
your batons straight on.
SPEAKER_05 (25:47):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, there's so many,definitely so many benefits to
using it.
Um one of the ones that I it'sbeen a little bit controversial
on some of the posts I've beendoing recently on my socials,
um, talking about the treatment.
Sure.
Um, and look, this is I guessI've been lucky, but this is
I'll put my hand up and say,like, this is actually something
I wasn't aware of um a few yearsago.
(26:09):
It's only I've only become awareof it in the last sort of 12 to
18 months.
But a lot of membranes reactwith certain treatments that if
they come in contact with them.
So you certainly can.
How um, and look, I'm justlucky.
I I reached out to some guysdown Victoria that have been
doing this for years when I wasgetting started with it, uh,
(26:32):
they would they told me the bestproduct to use was CCA um
timber, which is uh correct meif I'm wrong, it's pressure
treated, isn't it?
CCA.
Um so the CCA isn't reactive tothe building wrap.
Um, but I'm sure there's a lotof people out there that have
put uh LOSP or other treatmentsagainst their building wrap.
(26:55):
You're using a waterborneproduct, aren't you?
Yeah.
And what sort of treatment leveldoes that get you?
SPEAKER_02 (27:00):
So it gives you a H3, a full, a full H3.
So this material is robustexternally.
Now, obviously, it's not in anexternal application, but it's
it's a H3, a fully certified H3process.
Waterborne, um, so you you knowyou you mitigate your reactivity
issues.
Uh but yeah, absolutely.
I mean, a H3 is important for usuh in terms of longevity.
(27:21):
I mean, it's a structuralmaterial, it is in a moisture
environment.
We want to bulletproof itagainst anything moisture
related.
So H3 treatment is is excellentfor that, um, but we also don't
want it to react with anythingthat's underneath it.
So we've we've elected to usewaterborne treatment across our
range, which um which uh yeah,has served us well.
Uh and it's also you know, it'sa really good quality treatment
(27:42):
process, which um we'reconfident in.
SPEAKER_05 (27:44):
I'd imagine that's better for the environment as
well, isn't it?
Uh look, I believe so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, but the other so on that,uh, a lot of people have been
telling me that I'm I don't needto be using a treated batten.
And I'd I argue with them onthis.
I personally my personal opinionis like a lot of what we're
(28:06):
talking about is to do withmoisture.
Yes.
So there is moisture in thatcavity.
That's right.
And look, I don't know if it'speople that haven't had enough
experience in the industry ormaybe haven't seen uh what
happens to timber when it failsfrom moisture.
Like untreated timber doesn'tneed a lot of moisture to fail.
SPEAKER_00 (28:26):
Yes.
SPEAKER_05 (28:27):
Um, so to me it's a no-brainer.
Like you if you're using a uhtimber product in a cavity that
is dealing with moisture, itshould be treated.
SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
Look, I I I completely agree.
Um particularly, I mean, I canspeak certainly with with regard
to our structural material,being an LVL.
If there's any, and timber andwater of timber of any
description and water are notthe best of friends, as we all
know, but um any any latentmoisture that may dwell in the
(28:59):
cavity.
I mean, we uh obviously with theshape and profile of material,
or and I'll probably broadenthat out to any ventilated
cavity for that matter, whetherit be it our product or any
other way to achieve cavityventilation, it is a far more
ideal circumstance for timber tobe in because it's got airflow,
right?
That that isn't that is a muchbetter situation for it to be
in.
Having said that, uh we mighthave a wet week, met wet month,
(29:24):
for example, uh, where thatmoisture can't fully dissipate.
Um I personally would like myespecially a structural timber
to be uh galvanized againstthat, you know, to be to be
treated, to be H3 treated, to beuh robust in that circumstance.
SPEAKER_05 (29:39):
Well, my my theory is like if we want to truly
build healthy homes, we have tobe building buildings that are
lasting hundreds of years, not30 or 40 or 50.
Yep.
Um and to me, an untreated pieceof timber won't last that long
in a cavity.
Um and again, I'm this.
(30:00):
Is I just I go down all theserabbit holes.
I I just I drive myself crazy.
Like my wife reckons she canhear me thinking when I'm
sleeping, but um like you'veonly got to look at a any timber
product that you may haveoutside your home.
Like even if it's not in a fullywet environment, but like a a
(30:20):
piece of outdoor furniture, orum I guess I've got some
examples around my place.
Like we could live on acreage,we've got a lot of gardening
tools, rakes and things, likeanything that is left outside
deteriorates quite quickly.
And even if it's not getting wetall the time, like just
different times of the year,like you think about it, you go
(30:42):
outside and you've you've got abit of moisture um on your
grass, a bit of jewel something,like there's always moisture
around.
Yeah, so yeah, like I said, tome, it's a no-brainer, like to
get considering that it's in acavity where we're dealing with
moisture that's coming outthrough the wall and moisture
that is coming in through uh theexternal claddings, um to last
(31:06):
the the test of time, which tome should be hundreds of years,
it it needs to be treated.
SPEAKER_02 (31:12):
Absolutely, and where you know treatment
technology has also come a verylong way.
Um, and those those processesare getting better and better.
So, and and to me, it's it's nota not a major step to make to to
sort of like I said, use theword galvanized, you know, but
but to to future proof thatmaterial, you know, it's um it's
I I believe it's worth doing.
And certainly something thatwe've uh we've you know, it's
(31:33):
core to our product is having arobust H3 treatment across the
board.
SPEAKER_05 (31:37):
Yeah.
I'm probably putting you on thespot here, but like I know LVL's
have been around for a very longtime.
Like what is the life expectancyof an LVL in the right
environment?
SPEAKER_02 (31:46):
Uh depending on it, so these have lifetime.
So depending on uh it it reallydepends on manufacturers and
those sorts of things.
But um LVL if detailed correctlyshould last for a very, very
long time.
SPEAKER_05 (31:57):
Yeah, like if it if it's in the right environment,
it's it's kept out of moisture,it I would imagine it's a piece
of timber, it's gonna lastforever.
SPEAKER_02 (32:03):
Yes.
Yeah, look, it again, it's um itdoes depend on a on a few
different factors, but uh thedetail around it and how it's
installed is very important.
But um, I mean, especially nowthat LVL, you know, a lot of LVL
components are becoming muchmore popular.
Um it's yeah, it's certainlysomething that needs to be
(32:24):
treated correctly, but if it is,it should last for a very long
time.
SPEAKER_05 (32:27):
Yeah, I know sustainability is a word that
gets thrown around a lot thesedays.
Like uh are your batonssustainably made?
SPEAKER_02 (32:34):
Absolutely, absolutely.
So look, we uh have been veryselective about the origin of
the raw material.
Um uh, you know, to do with uhsustainability as far as
forestry, um, all those types ofuh practices are important to
us.
Um but LVL as a concept is avery sustainable way to make
(32:56):
timber products.
So again, I would give a verybrief crash course in laminated
materials.
SPEAKER_05 (33:02):
But it's I'm sure our listeners are love this.
Like we, if they're anythinglike me, like I'd really like to
know about the products I'musing.
So go for go for goal.
SPEAKER_02 (33:11):
So uh a way an LVL is made, so we personally don't
actually manufacture the LVL, wewe process the raw material into
the shape that you see there.
But an LVL is made by probablythe best way to describe it is
matching a giant pencilsharpener.
So whole logs go into anenormous pencil sharpener, you
know, uh lathe sort of setup.
(33:32):
And basically the veneer ispeeled from the log as it spins.
So in terms of recovery ofresource, you get a lot, you get
an excellent return from theamount of log that's used, which
is uh in itself is a greatpractice.
Um again in that space,technology in in recovery of the
resource itself has come leapsand bounds.
(33:53):
Um and you're leadingmanufacturers of LVL around the
world are trying to find ways tomake that that the resource
recovery side of it as good aspossible, which I think is
fantastic.
I think it I think it's a reallygood way to use you know,
timber, which is in itself arenewable resource.
Um I think I think themanufacturing of LVL is a really
good way to sort of recoverthat.
(34:13):
So there's there's that side ofthings.
Um uh it's all plantation grown,so it's all sustainably,
sustainably grown.
Um but absolutely, yeah,absolutely.
Timber as a as a whole is a is asustainable material, it's a
true sustainable, uh, which issomething that I I think is now
getting its time in the sun,which is fantastic.
I think timber as a as a wholeis sort of starting to get a bit
(34:35):
more of a mainstream focus.
I've started to notice a lotmore timber in you know
commercial construction and thewhole concept of mass timber and
cross land timber and all thosesorts of things are starting to
become more prevalent, which Ithink is really good.
SPEAKER_05 (34:47):
I love it, man.
Um it really excites me.
To me, um, look, nothing againstreligion.
I'm not I'm not really areligious person, never been to
church and things, but I I dobelieve that everything on this
planet's put here for a reason.
Yep.
And there is certain types oftrees that have been put here
for us to build things with.
Yeah.
Like, and so like having thatplantation grown timber, like
(35:07):
that's what it's for.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Like it's no good for anythingelse.
Like it's um, but the um itexcites me that they've been
able to like LVL really, if theydidn't use that timber to
produce LVL, it's pretty uselessfor other things.
Like they make it structural bythe way they laminate it all
together, don't they?
SPEAKER_02 (35:28):
Well, so the veneers are graded themselves.
So every every every log that'speeled has a you know, the the
veneers themselves have a have astructural or a density rating.
But it is an amazing concept tothink that if you peel something
apart, lay it together andre-glue it, it comes back as a a
strong, versatile buildingmaterial.
To me, that's something that'salways fascinated me.
(35:49):
Um and uh I I personally am ofthe belief that LVL as a as a
raw material category has got uha lot a lot further to go in our
industry.
Um I mean, one of thecornerstones for us, our our
business sort of tagline istimber reimagined, which is what
we're trying to sort of go foris actually taking a uh you know
(36:09):
a material that's an excellentversatile building material and
turn it into things that servedifferent purposes.
SPEAKER_05 (36:16):
Yeah, because of how much they recover, like um I've
done a few trips down to theHine uh Tumba Rumba sawmill and
um a few different factories,I've been to an LVL factory and
um the X Land factory, allthose.
And what excites me is theminimal waste.
Yep.
Like because an LVL, like whenyou think of just normal stick
(36:36):
framing, like if you want asix-meter piece of timber,
you've got to get a six, like auh probably an eight or
nine-meter straight piece oftree to be able to get that out
of.
So the old-fashioned way, Iguess, that we've been building
where we've always wanted thelongest lengths of timber we we
can get, um, isn't the mostefficient way or the most
(36:57):
efficient use of our forestry.
But like when you consider thatLVL can take any size tree and
recover so much of that tree,and then by gluing it and
laminating it all together, um,as you said, produce it back
into a structural member that'sprobably stronger than where it
started.
SPEAKER_02 (37:13):
Well, and and and into enormous, you know, very
long, straight lengths.
It's um it's incredible.
It's incredible.
So look, we're we're we as uh asa business are pretty um pretty
adamant on the fact that it'sit's got it's got long legs in
our in our constructionindustry, and that that's
already sort of taking shape asit currently stands.
But um, yeah, butsustainability, it certainly is
(37:36):
uh is a very good component ofthe of the material itself.
SPEAKER_05 (37:40):
Um so mate, we've we've covered a lot already.
So we've we've talked about theum waterborne H3 treatment.
Um I actually wrote down somenotes today because I wanted to
make sure we didn't forgetanything because uh I am your
this product really does exciteme.
Um we've talked about the likeventilated cavity and and why
it's important to have a cavitybatten system.
(38:01):
Um we've talked a little bitabout condensation.
Uh we might just touch on that alittle bit more.
So uh condensation can come bothways, can't it?
That's right.
SPEAKER_02 (38:12):
So the probably the two analogies I would use.
Um, certainly for your your hothumid climates, you imagine like
a can of soft drink, a cold canof soft drink out in the hot
summer's day.
You imagine the condensationthat forms on the outside of
that that can that's to do withmoisture coming from the air
that's sort of beating on theoutside of that material.
(38:34):
So the you I would liken that toa cooled, air-conditioned home.
So humidity in the air will willbead on the outside of your
membrane.
Same sort of thing in in thehot, humid climates.
In the in the cooler climates,it's more to do with uh moisture
vapour that is formed inside thehome.
SPEAKER_05 (38:53):
Yeah, so either way, you've like in any climate,
you've got moisture getting intothat cavity and sitting there.
That's right.
Yeah, and um, I guess that leadsus into another one I want to
talk about, which is uh umincoming changes to the NCC.
Yep.
So the Australian NationalConstruction Code.
Yep.
Are you able to update us alittle bit on that?
SPEAKER_02 (39:15):
Absolutely.
So look, we and there has beenit has been a little bit of a um
uh I I've heard a lot of sort ofmixed opinions about that as a
concept.
Uh certainly as far as we seeit, the the NCC for 2025, which
is currently sitting asproposed, was delayed.
So it was meant to roll out alittle bit earlier in the year.
Uh it's been delayed.
(39:36):
Um but at this very moment intime, it is the NCC for 2025
will proceed once it'sfinalised.
We've talked about pausing theNCC from that point on.
Our understanding is that theNCC will once 2025 is rolled
out, from that point onwards,we'll see a pause up until
mid-2029 is the current state ofplay.
(39:58):
The proposed changes that arewithin that, uh, so certainly
some stuff around energyefficiency.
Um probably the one that relatesmost to the cavity ventilation
and condensation side of thingsis for climate zones six through
eight, which is the southernclimates.
So we have a little bit inQueensland, but most of uh it it
sort of is primarily New SouthWales, Victoria, Tasmania, and
(40:21):
the southern part of WesternAustralia.
Cooler climates, more or less.
So six, seven, and eight um willrequire uh a vapor permeable
membrane on on a lightweightframe.
SPEAKER_05 (40:33):
So these are these are coming in this year.
SPEAKER_02 (40:36):
Yes, yes.
So they they're currentlysitting as proposed.
Uh, but when that is finalized,the changes are around climate
zone six, seven, and eightrequiring a drained vented
cavity and requiring a vaporpermeable membrane, among other
things.
But that those are certainly asfar as it relates to
condensation in your walls,those are a major uh component
of that.
SPEAKER_05 (40:57):
Yeah.
Um I'll just apologise, it'sabsolutely blowing a gale
outside the shed today.
You might be able to hear a bitof the uh the wind noise, but um
because that you've clarified itfor me, because I know um
although I don't watch a lot ofmedia or listen to it, I have
heard a lot of um talk only inthe last month or two that the
changes are being put on hold.
SPEAKER_04 (41:17):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (41:17):
And so I thought it was all the changes.
Yep.
But um, from what you're myunderstanding from talking to
you and some other people isthat yeah, this is something
that's happening.
Like, and and very soon.
SPEAKER_02 (41:28):
Yes, and look, it's something also that's been
flagged as important.
So, look, our understanding iscertainly that that 2025, once
finalised, will roll ahead.
Um, but probably more broadly,it's something that we as an
industry have recognized as animportant addition to our
construction code.
Um, so look, we've you know, weobviously have uh builders
(41:51):
throughout the country that areadopting uh cavity ventilation
as a as a concept, as a bestpractice measure.
You know, it's it's somethingthat people are more and more
starting to realize that is umit's it's a good way to build.
It's a very easy way, relativelyspeaking, to dissipate moisture
in your home.
Um so we have we're we'verecognized that it's a it's a
thing.
Um and that's I think that's areally good step for our our
(42:13):
code as well.
SPEAKER_05 (42:14):
Oh 100%, mate.
And look, to be honest, I I'mdefinitely down a rabbit hole
with it now, and I think it's anabsolute no-brainer.
Like it every single structurethat is built should have a
cavity system.
Like once you understand whyit's there, how it works, and
probably for me, the biggestthing getting my head around was
just breaking all like it was itwas literally breaking 25 years
(42:37):
of the industry and um knowledgethat I'd been taught and learnt
and been to seminars, um, andunderstanding that our cladding
systems are not our waterprooflayer.
Like um, I know even just as anapprentice, my my employer just
drummed it into me like gettingall our cuts tight around uh
(42:59):
flashings and over roofs andthings, and like really trying
hard to make our claddingwatertight.
Um and I think back now, likethat was awesome, it taught me
good quality and things, but itit was never ever gonna stop all
the moisture getting in.
And especially back like well,28 years ago, like we were using
(43:19):
the shitty old foil bloody andwe and we weren't doing it
anywhere near as good as what weprobably should have been.
Um But I one thing I reallywanted to get see what your
opinion on was like I'm a bigbeliever is uh I'm a big
believer in the building codeshould be our bare minimum.
Yes.
Like it shouldn't be somethingthat builders are trying to aim
(43:41):
for.
Like it should be a bare minimumthat we're trying to exceed and
do better than.
Um, what's your opinion on that?
SPEAKER_02 (43:48):
Look, I agree, I agree.
Um, I have to say I I've in inrecent times, particularly
around the the new stuff that'sthat's starting to be proposed.
So look at you know, energyefficiency and and then
condensation management.
I think um uh I was personallyfelt quite good about the fact
that those those things arestarting to get recognized.
(44:09):
I think that's that it's it's areally good step.
Um but absolutely I think Ithink we should always be
striving for best practiceregardless of where we sit in
the industry.
Um it's uh I mean for a lot ofpeople uh for for many, you
know, your home is it's not onlya major investment, it's also
where you spend a lot of yourmost of your time, you know,
it's it's where you sleep, it'swhere you eat.
(44:32):
All those things, for mepersonally, I I think that if I
were if I had my you know handson the levers as far as what was
going into the production of myhome, uh I'd want that to be as
good as it could be, you know,within within reason.
Um now I think that the codeabsolutely reflects that and is
is uh is working towardsreflecting that always, which I
think is great.
(44:53):
Um but absolutely I agree thatyou we should always be striving
for best practice regardless.
SPEAKER_05 (44:58):
Yeah, and I think that's that was a big driver for
me.
Like now that I know what Iknow, I I'm doing it for
multiple reasons, but the bigdriver for me um going down this
rabbit hole and learning moreabout this um was to do with
health.
Yeah.
Like and just starting to getthat understanding that the
homes that my building businessis building play an enormous
(45:19):
role on the health of theoccupants of that that move into
that house.
Yes.
Um, and obviously that like theynow that's coming out in our
building code, like it's prettyobvious that that there's signs
out there that our homes areaffecting um the health of
people that live in them.
Yes, especially with mould.
Yes.
Um and obviously the maincontributor to mould is
(45:43):
moisture.
Absolutely.
Um so yeah, I I am prettyconcerned knowing what I know
now about the next probably Idon't know, five to fifteen
years, I think.
I I do feel we're gonna see alot of homes uh that do suffer
from a lot of uh mould and thattype of thing.
So I do think as builders, likeI I take it very personally.
(46:05):
I I believe it's myresponsibility to make sure that
I deliver my clients the bestpossible thing that I can.
And now now understanding howmuch it's affecting their
health, it it's myresponsibility to make sure that
I I'm using the best products,I'm reaching out to people like
yourself, I'm I'm understandingmore about the product you're
you're using, like you'remaking, where it comes from, how
(46:26):
it's made, how it performs.
Yeah, so that I can make surethe product that I'm putting in
my house is the best possibleproduct I can use.
SPEAKER_03 (46:33):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (46:34):
Um yeah, I'm mate, I'm really excited to see uh
where you guys end up.
Yeah.
Um, and I'm definitely look, Iencourage all my listeners um
that listen to this podcast touh reach out to the guys.
So where can they find you,mate?
What's the best way?
SPEAKER_02 (46:48):
We're in hardware's around Australia.
So if um if you want to contactyour sort of your local timber
and hardware business, theyshould be able to give us a call
and we'll be able to figuresomething out.
SPEAKER_05 (46:58):
Yeah, but like if they want to go online and look
your own.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (47:01):
So our uh everything's Highwood Timber
across the board.
So our website ishighwood.com.au, um highwood
timber on Instagram andFacebook.
SPEAKER_05 (47:10):
Yeah, we're gonna ramp his fa his Instagram up,
guys.
We'll get some more shit goingon there.
Absolutely, absolutely.
This um this next job that we'redoing, we're we're gonna be
using uh all the wall products,so we'll definitely be doing
some video and and talking abouta lot.
So stay tuned for that.
But um, mate, I I really thankyou for taking the time out to
uh come on and and have a chatabout this.
SPEAKER_01 (47:29):
Oh thank you very much.
I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_05 (47:31):
Um, it's definitely something that I want to see um
in more jobs and see more peopleusing.
Uh I'm really excited about it.
I I can see the value it's gonnaadd to my jobs.
Yep.
Um just one last thing before wewrap it up that I've had on my
notes here that we didn't getto.
The using a baton system alsohelps your R value, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (47:52):
Yes, yeah.
So there's there's sort of twoconcepts in that space um still
air and moving air.
But either way, if you've got ifyou've got um air itself is a
good insulator.
So air layers in in any sort ofcontext add to your thermal
performance of your wall.
Still air is actually betterthan moving air, but in order to
(48:13):
keep the cavity dry, you needthe air to be moving.
So it's it's a bit of a uh Isuppose double-edged sword in
that sense.
But either way, it certainlyimproves the thermal value of
your wall.
Uh the probably what I would useas again an analogy in that is
imagine like a puffer jacket.
So, you know, we think about thethe air sort of pockets around a
puffer jacket, a very similarconcept for an insulated wall.
(48:36):
Obviously, we've got the thebats to provide insulation, but
an air gap is also just a reallyeffective way to bolster that
that performance.
So, yeah, absolutely it can.
SPEAKER_05 (48:45):
It's exciting to see where it's going to end up.
Like when you consider the rolethat technology is playing in
our industry now, yeah.
Um across the board, like inlike forestry, manufacturing,
uh, I imagine like even thegluing and gluing process and
all those types of things.
SPEAKER_02 (49:00):
Like, oh, absolutely.
It's it's uh the technology inin all those industries is is
growing at at exactly the samerate, you know.
I we're um we're the luckyrecipient of the the finished
product, which comes in a verynice, neat setup.
But oh, it's it's incredible tosee how it's how it's made.
And um I think more broadly, allthe technology that's going into
(49:22):
timber now and the fact thattimber's starting to get a bit
of a look in in the commercialworld, I think it's also really
exciting.
I mean, you don't have to looktoo far outside of Australia to
see uh and even withinAustralia, there's I was down in
Victoria recently and saw a uman opening to a tunnel which has
been built out of CLT, which isincredible.
Big uh, you know, sort ofcommercial infrastructure
(49:43):
projects that are now startingto incorporate, you know, mass
timber as a concept.
I think in general that's that'sexcellent.
I mean, from a from a carbonstandpoint, it's it's fantastic
as far as it you know embodiedcarbon um in the production.
Yeah, I mean, for for for a longlist of reasons, I I feel like
it's it's an exciting sort ofmaterial that we're just now
(50:05):
starting to get you know fullexposure to, which is great.
SPEAKER_05 (50:08):
Awesome, mate.
Well, yeah, look, like I said,the other exciting thing is I've
seen where you guys end up withthis.
Like I know you um I'm sure youwon't stop at these first few
products.
There'll be uh more Highwood LVLproducts coming, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_02 (50:19):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's um yeah, we're we'recertainly trying to uh to push
the envelope with what we cancome up with here.
But um, yeah, absolutely.
There will be more.
SPEAKER_05 (50:28):
Love it.
Well, mate, look, thanks verymuch for coming on the podcast.
Um, I really appreciate yourtime.
Guys, get behind the guys atHighwood.
Uh, if you're if you're buildinghealthy homes already or or
passive homes and you're usingcavity batten systems, like
seriously, this product is anabsolute no-brainer.
Um, like I said, it's the thebest one that I've come across.
Um, I believe in it a lot.
(50:50):
Uh, they've taken you've takencare of everything that we need
to try and deal with.
Like, um, so and it's off theshelf.
So um, guys, get behind them.
As always, look, make sure yougo to the DwaynePearce.com um
website, purchase your merch,get behind the level up
movement, uh, and continue tomake this Australia's number one
construction podcast.
We'll see you on the next one.
(51:12):
All right, guys, I want tointroduce you to a really
exciting new product that Ibelieve is going to play a
massive role in Australiabuilding healthier homes.
As you all know, I am extremelypassionate about healthy homes
and I'm doing a lot of researchand putting a lot of time and
effort into making sure myconstruction business is leading
the way when it comes tobuilding healthy homes here in
(51:33):
Australia.
We've teamed up with the guysfrom Highwood Timber.
Highwood Timber are pioneeringcondensation management with
their high flow ventilated LVLbaton system.
High flow battons give buildersa stronger, straighter, and
smarter way to create aventilated cavity behind
cladding and underneath roofswithout compromising on
(51:55):
structural performance.
While tackling condensation toimprove building health and ease
of insulation, highwood battonsare built to perform.
When it comes to dealing withcondensation and ventilation,
high flow battons will help youcreate continuous ventilated
cavities behind all yourcladding and underneath your
roof sheeting.
They reduce condensation riskand support healthier, longer
(52:18):
lasting buildings.
Highwood timber battons are alsoin alignment with the proposed
NCC condensation managementrequirements as well as passive
house ventilation requirements.
Being an engineered LVL product,they are stronger, straighter,
and more dimensionally stablethan a solid material such as
pine.
This helps resist warping,twisting, and shrinkage,
(52:39):
ensuring more consistentinstalls less prone to splitting
than solid timber.
Howwood timber battons areprecisely manufactured, meaning
that your installation will befaster and easier than other
products on the market.
The part that I like the mostabout these battons are they are
H3 treated for long-termprotection against decay and
turmoiles.
They use a waterborne H3treatment which reduces
(53:02):
reactivity with membranes andadhesives when compared to LOSP.
These are the exact battens thatyou want to be using on your
homes and your builds if you areconsidering building healthier
homes or passive homes.
Check 'em out.
How would Timber products?
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