April 21, 2025 • 46 mins
GET YOUR TICKETS TO THE LEVEL UP EXPERIENCE HERE - https://duaynepearce.com/events/
#137 Australia falls significantly behind in building healthier homes, with moisture management being a critical factor that most builders aren't addressing properly. We're joined by Jesse and Dan from Pro Clima Australia to explore how vapour-permeable weather barriers create healthier, more durable buildings compared to traditional foil sarking that traps moisture and creates perfect conditions for mould growth.
check out Pro Clima here...
proclima.com.au
Check out Duayne's other projects here...
Live Life Build
livelifebuild.com
D Pearce Constructions
dpearceconstructions.com.au
QuoteEaze
quoteeaze.com/Free-Offer.html
GET YOUR TICKETS TO THE LEVEL UP EXPERIENCE HERE - https://duaynepearce.com/events/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a wet timber structure and wrapping it in
aluminum foil and then expectinga good outcome is insanity.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I really think Australia is behind the eight
ball when it comes to buildinghealthier and better quality
homes.
G'day guys, welcome back toanother episode of Level Up.
We have got another crackingepisode for you today.
We actually have two of theteam at Proclimer Australia, and
(00:31):
the reason we have these guyson the podcast today is because
Proclimer has come on board asone of the major sponsors for my
coming up Level Up experiencewith Dwayne Pearce on the 30th
of May here in Brisbane.
I tell you what it is going tobe the greatest event the
construction industry has everseen.
If you're into personaldevelopment, business
development, building, science,healthy homes, there has never
(00:52):
been anything put on like thisin australia, I believe.
Um, as on top of that, we'regoing to have a heap of trade
stalls and demonstrations and,fifth, over fifty thousand
dollars worth of lucky doorprizes.
So you do not want to miss thisevent.
So massive shout out to.
We got the guys here Jess andDan from Proclimate.
How are you guys?
Good, not too bad at all.
(01:13):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
No, look, I can't thankProclimate Australia enough for
jumping on board and becomingthe major sponsor for this event
.
Healthy homes is something I'mvery passionate about.
I haven't, uh, gone right downthe the passive home path yet.
I've done all my training andstuff, but I'm really focused on
healthy homes and um.
(01:34):
I really think australia isbehind the eight ball when it
comes to building healthier andbetter quality homes and um.
So I jumped on the bandwagonwith pro climber after doing a
lot of, having a lot ofconversations with Stewie
Shelton and also Hamish I thinkyou guys know Hamish pretty well
as well.
I know him and for me it's justa no-brainer Once you
(01:57):
understand it, what works, I'llnever put anything else on a
house ever again.
Jesse, you're the why guy,dan's the how guy, so do you
want to talk a little bit about,um, why we should be using your
product?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
yeah, absolutely so.
I mean, I guess it's it's thatpoint where you realize that
there's a better way of doingthings right.
And and the same thing thathappened to you happened to me,
which was, um going through thehistory of how we build in
australia and working out theremust be a better way to make
buildings that don't leak water,uh, they're healthy, they're
durable, energy efficient.
(02:32):
And that's when I startedlooking towards germany and then
um working out how did theymake the solutions work?
And this all comes down to,yeah, the, the physics of the
rain, the wind pressures, uh,climate, how you design for
climate, uh all those you knowreally detailed sort of stuff.
But, as I was um saying to youearlier, duane, that there's a
(02:57):
um inflection point somewhere inaustralia where it's turning
from a cold climate into a warmclimate.
And the interesting part aboutyou guys in southeast Queensland
is that you're somewhere aroundthat zone of hey, I'm not sure
if we're cold Like it's quitecool in winter, but it also gets
stinking hot in summer.
But I think the thing aboutproclimbing what we do in the
(03:19):
southeast Queensland region orthe subtropics, is the
weatherproofing and the amountof rain that you get.
And that's where Proclima comesin with awesome weatherproofing
solutions, and once youunderstand it I think which
we'll hopefully go through in abit more detail today then you
can't really go away from it.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It just makes sense.
Once you know it, you can,can't change.
It's just, you'll never go backto doing things the old way or
all the way that a lot of peopleare still doing it.
But, um, dan, do you want totell us a little bit about the
the how like, why we, why weshould be using proclama when it
comes to the hair?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
ah, for sure, and I think, like the house is very
important because it doesn'thelp you at all if you have a
sports car and a p-playerdriving it.
So, um, for specifically, Ithink you can hear like I have a
german accent, so myself I'mfrom germany, I'm a german
master, carpenter, constructionengineer, and which is something
(04:17):
which doesn't exist.
So this construction engineerthing is the guy who is actually
responsible inside for thepractical part, for the
application, and you need topractice the background.
So it means kind of you canjust really apply the sciency
part what jesse was talkingabout if you really understand
his part and for me alsounderstanding the builders part
and combine it on the buildingside to actually get the outcome
(04:39):
you wanted to, or your plan foryour design, for yeah, I think
it's something that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And just to go back, I guess what Jesse was
mentioning about theweatherproof layer like I was
led to believe through my wholeapprenticeship in the first well
up until a few years ago, thatyour cladding or your brickwork
was your weathertight layer, andunderstanding that it's not and
(05:06):
how the whole, all the buildingscience and the breathability
and all this stuff behind, andthen I think for me, the the big
push for me to know more wasdefinitely the condensation and
the mold.
Um, and I know from my point ofview that come from us doing a
lot of refurbs and bigrenovations and pull it when you
pull apart a house.
I think it's the best way tolearn is when you pull apart a
lot of refurbs and bigrenovations and pull it when you
pull apart a house.
I think it's the best way tolearn is when you pull apart a
(05:27):
part of house, you can seewhat's failed and what hasn't
worked.
And so I hear so many builders,uh, all the time saying, oh,
I've never seen moisture inhouse.
We do renovations, I pullthings apart.
It's not wet, but you've got tolook for signs.
And when you start looking forsigns, you can see that there's
been moisture in the home andthe insulation's been wet, or
there's the signs of wood rotbecause of moisture on timber
(05:50):
and there's signs of mold on theback of plasterboard and backs
of claddings and those types ofthings.
So for me it's that wholeunderstanding how the house is
supposed to perform.
And on top of that I think itwas um stewie from shelton group
that actually uh informed me ofjust how much moisture is
(06:11):
produced in a average home withfour people in it, just with
day-to-day living, and what thatsort of stuff's never like.
It's just never been on myradar, I've never been told so.
So how has your product helpedwith that sort of stuff?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So going back to your first part of your question, or
first statement, I should say,where you were led to believe
that the cladding is aweather-tight layer.
I don't think you're alone,because there's people at
building codes level that stillthink that.
So we're trying to change thatand get the information out to
the market to understand thatthe cladding will never be
(06:49):
weathertight.
And even if it is, when youinstall it with a whole bunch of
goop in all the joints andeverything else, it's got a
limited lifetime until all thatcracks up and it's going to leak
water behind it.
So that second line of defense,typically called sarking, which
we don't like that word,particularly in Southeast
Queensland, because when youthink of sarking, what
(07:13):
immediately comes to your mind?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
The shitty old foil mate.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Correct, and that's not what we want to talk about.
And that's not what Proclimatedoes, because it's not vapor
permeable and the vaporpermeable weather barriers or
weather-resistive barriers, whatwe call it which is essentially
where the sarkin goes, goes onthe outside of the stub frames.
Typically, if that's wind tight, it becomes water tight, and we
(07:36):
have very detailed applicationprocedures for that to make sure
that that is all very wellimplemented.
So that's the external moistureside.
But then we're talking aboutthe internal moisture which you
alluded to, which was the watervapour generated by people
inside the house.
And that's when you startgetting to the interior vapour
(07:58):
control systems, or morespecifically, the Proclimate
IntelliPlus system, and that isdesigned to stop water vapor
diffusing into the wall systemsand potentially condensating
within the insulated studcavities.
Essentially, um, so you guys upin southeast queensland, or
queensland in general, love the,the timber frame right, the,
(08:18):
the old queenslander style home.
So, um, yeah, that's.
You know typically what we dowe protect that timber, frame it
.
But then dan, so if dan, thenDan, so Dan's the guy that can
tell you how all that works indetail yeah, so, dan, do you
want to fill us in on that?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
oh for sure.
I think it's also interestingto mention is the history of
buildings also, because I think,like the really old buildings,
they haven't had much problemsbecause the old Queenslander
building is normally have gapsand cracks everywhere, so you
always have a consistent airflow.
But back then you haven't hadalso air con units, so you
maximum we had a fan.
(08:55):
So it means you actually didn'tcreate many problems because
the house was so leaky.
You just live with it thatinternal temperature always
equals external temperature.
But from the moment normally westart to put in insulation and
crank up the aircon unit.
This is when we havetemperature differences between
inside and outside.
This is when we actually startto create problems, and that's
what Ocesi meant like.
(09:16):
This is where we want tounderstand the climate we live
in, if it's more like a heatingclimate or a colder climate, and
specifically as a builder, it'svery important also to
understand that way he'sbuilding, because you can't in a
tropical area, you can't justbuild.
Um, no, I lost my track.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
what I was trying to say before you um, I'll let you
get your train of thought backthere, dan, but like I'll just
jump in there for a minute, likeI, I guess it's because I've
put a lot of time and energy inand talking people and learning
more about this stuff.
But how?
Because I'm putting a lot oftime and energy in and talking
people and learning more aboutthis stuff, but how I explain it
to a lot of builders now whenthey ask me questions.
And I actually explain it toour homeowners when they come to
(09:54):
us now, because I make it veryclear from the very beginning
that this is our standard now,like proclimate and a cavity
batten system and with customflashings and a breathable
cavity around the home is how webuild, and so I'm.
I am not going to be thecheapest builder, but I
guarantee I'm going to build youa good home.
But I explain to people that,like, if you're not, if you're
(10:18):
unaware of what you're doing,which most builders are, and
tradies over time.
So, like you just said, olderhomes were full of leaks, so
they so.
Because a lot of builders say,oh, we live in an old home,
there's nothing wrong with it,it's fine and it probably is
fine.
But then over time, like,obviously, we started like
(10:38):
manufacturing's gotten better.
So, without builders being soaware or aware at all about it,
we started putting betterwindows and better doors into
homes, which has then started toseal them up more, and then
they brought in this sarking.
So then all of a sudden we'reputting this, this building wrap
around these buildings, whichis sealing them up even more,
and then they bring in a codechange that shoves insulation in
(11:01):
those walls.
So, like over the last 20 to 30years, we've been going from
houses that had a lot of likeleaks and cracks and breathe to
slowly just sealing our housesup more and more and more,
without us being aware of it, toa point, like you said, then
you go and throw airconditioning in those sealed up
boxes, you change thetemperature from inside to
(11:23):
outside and all of a suddenyou've got issues with mold and
condensation, and so I thinkit's it's like.
I think people need to be awareof that whole journey, because
that's all.
If you're just going to workevery day, you're getting a set
of plans, you're building ahouse, you're throwing in
windows, you're putting claddingon it and you're not
considering any of this stuff,you're not going to know any
(11:44):
different.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Absolutely.
This is what I've talked aboutin the past, which is the
cascade of intervention whereyou start with well, hang on, we
need energy-efficient buildings, we need to insulate them.
So then you start insulating,changing the temperature
dynamics of the walls and theroof systems, so one side gets
hotter or stays warmer, warmer,one side gets cooler or vice
versa, in summer the cool sideand keep the air conditioning on
(12:08):
the inside um, and then thatchanges all the dynamics and the
surface temperatures in wall orroof systems and potential for
moisture condensation or ummoisture accumulation.
But then, going a step further,like you're saying, air
tightness.
And a question for you, duane,is is people moving towards more
(12:28):
airtight buildings in southeastQueensland?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Mate, I'm not sure.
I went and did all my passivehouse training and passed and
got all that.
I think there's a handful ofpassive home builders in
Brisbane.
It's not something we get Like.
I've only ever been asked forone passive house and and it
didn't end up going ahead.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, um, but but without yeah, without
specifically talking aboutpassive house, just acceptance
that an airtight buildingretains the cool air in summer
as much as it does retain thewarm air in winter.
There's no point in taking anold Queenslander house with 10mm
gaps in the floorboards that'sthree metres off the ground put
(13:11):
an air conditioner in, all thecool air falls straight through
and you end up with a veil of ashower of cool air when you're
standing in the carport below.
Yeah, that's completely energyinefficient.
So I guess the and I'm goingback sort of 10 years in my
career when I was working, ormore working with CSRO trying to
(13:31):
work out where the benefits ofair tightness actually lie.
And the benefits of airtightness lie in the southern
states, where it's really coldbut also where it's really humid
.
Because if you don't keep thehumid air outside your building
in summer, then it comes intoyour building and the air
conditioner has to pull out allthat humidity and that becomes
(13:53):
really energy intensive.
But that humidity coming inalso creates potential for
condensation and mold growth.
So managing all this andbalancing all these um different
criteria is not an easy thing.
But going back to the cascade ofintervention insulation yes,
okay, we need to make it.
Air tightness to stop all thatand more airtight to make stop
(14:15):
all the moisture coming throughthe systems and going where we
don't want it to go.
And then it's like, okay, we'vegot more airtight building.
What about indoor air quality?
Okay, we've got to have someindoor ventilation.
So how do we do that?
Through louvers?
Well, no, the louvers aren'tairtight.
Okay, so then we go to acontinuous mechanical
ventilation system to providethe fresh air.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So you start moving along a trajectory on the
building code that is pointingsomething towards looks like
passive house yeah, yeah, it'sum, and look, it's something
that we all need to educateourselves, like tradies and
builders and and homeowners likeI'm actually finding,
especially with the healthy homestuff, like we're getting an
(14:55):
incredible amount of inquiry, um, since we've been going down
that path, but it's like mostthings, like the clients are
more educated than what a lot ofbuilders and and tradies are,
and so they, so they're askingthese questions.
But I like to dig deeper intothings because I find like if a
client comes to a builder andsays, hey, I want a healthy home
, and the builder only does onepart of it, then they failed.
(15:18):
Like to have a healthy home,you've got to have a complete
system, and that's, I think,where a lot of our industry
falls over.
It's a lot of do a bit here, doa bit there, and it doesn't
really all fit together.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
And that key thing is what you said system, but
thinking of the house as a wholesystem, not just a
weatherproofing system, but thehouse with all those overlaying
features, the weather tighteners, air tighteners, ventilation,
insulation systems.
It's a whole system that workstogether.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, dan, can you tell us a little bit more about,
like the on-site stuff, likehow does all this stuff work
when you actually get to saw it,and um, because it's a bit to
know yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And the funny part is also like when you hear the
first time from it, you got thequestion from the house owner or
for from the client to actuallybuild a healthy home or energy
efficient home.
Then you have builders whotrust to the minimal just to get
to satisfy the customer.
And then you have builders likeyou and like Stu and so many
other builders who actually diveinto it.
(16:18):
And then, specifically thefirst half of the year it's a
very, very steep learning curveand the feedback I got a lot is
kind of the first half of theyear is very depressive because
you learn so much and then youthink back of all the work
you've done in the past.
So it means the first half ofthe year you have a lot of
worries and sleep at night butbecause you can't unknow what
(16:39):
you know what you said before.
So it means kind of you have togo through all the stuff.
But then after a year, one anda half, then the confidence
comes back also.
And the confidence comes backalso that you're actually really
on site.
You apply the materials, theproducts, you change your
systems from the old schooltraditional building style and
you actually change bits andpieces, for example, not having
(17:00):
direct fix gluing.
And the funny part is, ofcourse, you just sell a
millimeter on the inside and amillimeter on the outside, plus
a few tapes, but this isactually not where the story
stops.
So, specifically, of course,you just sell a millimeter on
the inside and a millimeter onthe outside, plus a few tapes,
but this is actually not wherethe story stops.
So, specifically, when I do mypractical trainings, it's easy
to say, yeah, yeah, this is howyou should build, this should be
your wall builder.
But from this first moment whenyou hit a corner or when your
(17:20):
wall hits the roof, then we talkabout details, and this is
where it's very important tosupport all builders and that we
work together, that youactually have standard solutions
like details for all theseinternal and external corners,
for all these potential problems.
And also I share lots of tipsand tricks.
And this is where I would saymy experience working in Germany
(17:42):
as a GP for 20 years comes inhandy, also because I realize
very often I have afundamentally different way to
see ticks and think about it.
Very often I'm wearing blackand white, so I don't mind to
cut pieces out and remove thembecause I think later on it's
going to be way faster and moreefficient.
And very often it's a lot andvery often you can also change
(18:04):
bits and pieces, but havingbattens on so that the
counterbends actually long runactually overlap the membrane
because the membranes can't beexposed to UV.
And a simple detail is like inthe old days, we just overlap
the sark into the gutter, butyou know exactly how it looks
like after a few years becausesun hits the membrane of the
sarking and this disintegrates.
These are all small steps,which is important to actually
(18:27):
create a durable installation ofour products and the whole
system.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, definitely.
And, like I said, we've beenusing Proclimate for just on or
just over two years now andevery job we're learning.
Stu's probably got sick of meringing him and checking in on
things.
I send him pictures and hesends me pictures back.
I love it.
The big thing now is gettingour whole team involved, like
(18:53):
educating our team on why we'reusing these products.
Um, like the proclimer.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
But where you go, you're right, you're going I
just want to mention somethingbecause, like, it's important to
see the whole story, like thewhy and how they belong together
.
And and I see, like Jesse hadthis idea from the beginning.
Even before I started, jessealways had this idea like we
need something to tell the wholestory.
And you came to the event alsothat Jesse wrote the Australia
(19:18):
Study, which I always recommendto really everyone to read, and
because, like, the first eightchapters are actually the why
and the last chapter it's notbecause it's just one chapter,
but it's a big chapter isactually the how.
And when Jess and I went on theroadshow also, we had two
presentations One was the whyand the other one was the how.
So all these presentations arealso available on the Proclamer
(19:41):
YouTube channel and the documentyou can download for free, of
course, at the Proclamer website.
But I think it would beinteresting to ask Jesse what
your thought process was behind,because I think it tells the
whole story of Australianbuilding.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I'm going to go back a step.
I'm going to ask Dwayne aquestion Are you a nerdy builder
or a practical nerd?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I would say a practical nerd.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Oh, really, I like asking people that question.
I consider myself a practicalnerd, um, so I do nerdy stuff
like write australia studieswhich have a lot of um, uh,
technical detail and prettycharts and graphs and.
But in the back of theaustralia study there's also a
(20:27):
whole section on what people aredoing around Australia,
including some of the people youwould be networking with Dwayne
, like Hamish White and MattCarland in Melbourne, and a lot
of people from New South Walesand Brisbane as well.
But that study is aiming tooutline the science and then
(20:48):
actually show that it can bebuilt, it can be done and this I
think in Australia there'salways been this chasm in the
middle of the builders and thenthe designers, the nerds.
You know the architects and theengineers and it's like, well,
that can't be built.
But these guys don't reallyknow the architects and
engineers don't reallyunderstand the practical side of
things and the practical guysthe builders don't really
(21:14):
understand the.
The architects and engineersdon't really understand the
practical side of things and thepractical guys the builders
don't really understand thesciency side of things.
So what we're trying to do ismeet in the middle and go well,
actually we need an army of umpractical nerds and an army of
um nerdy builders and they canwork together as a we, not an us
and them sort of scenario, andthen we can get really good
billings.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Definitely Look.
I definitely recommend anybodythat hasn't seen or heard about
or read the study that Jesse'sdid go and check that out.
So that's available on theProclimate Australia website.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah, it's downloadable from the Proclimate
website.
Go to resources page and youshould be able to find it.
But yeah, it's not a short book.
There's quite a few pages in it, but worth a read.
How long did you wrote on it?
How long I took about 4 yearsin between everything else.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, it's one of those things I think you have to
.
So what we see, or what I seehappening now I'm not sure how
many pro client builders in um,southeast queensland are using
proclimate, but we get buildersdrive past our sites.
They reach out and like what's?
What's that blue stuff?
I see it seeing you post somevideos about it, like what are
(22:21):
you talking about?
And so there's a lot of peopleout there that are interested.
We get a lot of homeowners thatreach out from our social media
say, hey, what's this Proclimateproduct you're using?
But the very first thing thateveryone asks is cost, like how
much that add to the job?
And in the last two years myanswer on this has changed a lot
.
It started out by saying, look,it is more expensive than the
(22:45):
old foil crap that we've beenusing, but it's a far better
product.
Um, and then we would have someconversation with that, whereas
now the first thing that comesout of my mouth if anyone asks
me is it's not about the cost.
We are adding so much value notonly to that house but to the
people that live in the houseslives we're.
We're creating a healthy spacefor them, and to me that's
(23:07):
priceless.
So I think a lot of builderslike we talked about this a
little bit before we startedrecording.
For me, it's about coming upwith a standard that my business
builds to and selling that tomy clients.
It's not about what the clientlike.
If a client come to me and said, oh, we need to save some money
(23:29):
, you need to take that productout, then I'd say, oh, look,
we're not the builder for you,because that's how important it
is to me.
Now I want to make sure I'musing the right product on my
homes and I even put my blueshirt on today because they're
blue profiler.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
We'll give you some iron-on logos for it first, um,
like it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
That's the sort of barrier we need to get over,
isn't it?
Because it's like anything like.
Yes, it is a little bit moreexpensive than the old foil
stuff, but the foil is crap, butit's.
We're not comparing apples toapples, are we?
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's creating or comparing thebottom of the barrel to the best
in class and, like youmentioned, which I like, but if
I ask you the question, what'sthe value of your health?
What is the answer?
Well, it's priceless.
Correct, it's priceless, so doit.
(24:29):
Yeah, and it does come down tothat, but it's all around
moisture and then, ultimately,the mold growth.
That's.
That's what we're targeting interms of healthy, dry, healthy
buildings, and every house I'velived in australia, up until the
one I live in now, is gotmoisture somewhere in it and
mold somewhere in it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, and it's just.
I think it's becoming a lotmore like more and more people
are getting aware of it now,because they're obviously
they've obviously the sciencenow is showing that a lot of
health illnesses are because ofmold.
So people are starting to askthe questions, Like I'm pretty
close to Zara Dakota, I've doneall her training and her program
(25:10):
and she's spreading awarenessnow about what mold can cause in
your arms and the illnessesthat can be contributed to it.
So it's putting thisinformation out there, isn't it
Constantly talking about it,getting it in front of people so
that people don't have a choicebut to go down the proclimate
path and build a better qualityhome.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It is an awareness.
But to give you a bit of anexample, my wife is German, so
I've got a bit of insight.
Daniel's German, but when Ispeak to my wife and Daniel will
tell you, I'll pass over toDaniel.
But the acceptance of Mons inthe German culture, what happens
in Germany?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
in the German culture .
What happens in Germany?
You sue the landlords or youknow definitely it's a
completely wrong use of yourplace.
So there are two reasons youreally know it's a really bad
building or you never, ever,open your windows and doors.
So there's one or the other,but there's no exceptions at all
.
Yeah right, so if you're rentinga house, you can sue the
(26:08):
landlord if it's got mold in itif you can prove that's, if you
can prove that's actually astructural problem like thermal
breaks or leaky windows, yes, ofcourse.
But on the other hand, ofcourse you have a problem if you
just never open your windowsand doors.
You have an aquarium andspecifically if you live in an
all-or-building, they havethermal breaks everywhere,
(26:29):
specifically corners, and thenyou have an aquarium and you
don't heat and cool properly andyou don't properly, you don't
heat properly, you create coldsurfaces and then you have mold
yeah unbelievable yeah soaustralia?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I feel like australia pushes back because everything
come like.
I don't know this is only myopinion, but a lot of our
industry is driven by largervolume type builders and it's so
driven by cost and I personallybelieve that whole conversation
needs to shift from cost tovalue add.
Like is having the cheapesthome, like the home you can
(27:04):
afford, actually the best thingfor you and your family?
And if we educate more peopleon what is actually happening
inside their homes, they'regoing to start to ask questions
and they're going to want toknow what's actually happening
in behind the walls and how it'saffecting their health
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I think this is where the reason changes with moulds
and oofy is interesting, which Ithink you should yeah, I was
thinking exactly the same thing,because I you read the building
code right, right, brian yeah,yeah, well yeah, yeah, I mean,
you'd be well aware that, um, inthe last revision, or 2022
revision, the word mold wasmentioned in the health and
(27:44):
amenity section of the buildingcode.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
so for the first time ever, in the body of the
building code of Australia, theword mould is mentioned.
So therefore, what's happeningin Germany, where you go back
and sue the landlord because hegot mould, is a potential, real
future for Australia too,because it means you didn't
comply with the minimum codecompliance.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I think that's something that all builders and
tradies need to get up to speedon, because once they start
mentioning those types of thingsin our building codes, we are
responsible.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
The thing is with energy efficiency you miss a bat
in your wall and get a coldspot.
Does anyone ever know?
Not really.
But if you start getting mold,mold somewhere, you see it and
it becomes visual.
And as soon as it becomesvisual, then it becomes a
problem and and the first thingpeople complain about is
aesthetic defects right, uh, soso it's what you can see.
(28:43):
But if you can't see and it'shidden, then then you've got a
real insidious problem.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, I like the way You're right, you go Dan.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I'll just say maybe you want to be more precise,
chess, because I think we have alot of listeners who are more
practical.
So like you can really say,like what's the mode index of
free and how you actually canevaluate what it is, because I
think it's always on thelisteners the listeners.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
They actually want to know how to solve it, or what's
the starting point, so that, um, okay, going back to being a
nerd part, right?
So, using computer software um,woofy, uh is a german based
software you can use thissoftware to predict what's
actually happening in thatbuilding structure.
Uh, so this is a design phase,engineering, architectural phase
of a building.
So how actually do I layerthose insulation layers with the
vapor permeable membranes andvapor control layers?
(29:32):
And while doing stuff funkylike putting insulation on the
outside of the building, whichsome high performance builders
might be doing, then it changesthe whole dynamics of that
system and where you'd like,where you're likely to get mold
growth or high humidity,condensation and mole growth.
So the mold index in thebuilding code is actually, uh,
calculable.
We're using the woofy softwareand it's got stated this limit
(29:53):
of mole growth index of threeand it's like, okay, well, so
what?
What does that mean?
This calculable index of threeactually means going back and
following the research back upto um, up to europe.
Then you find out that that isactually 10 coverage, coverage
of mould on a surface.
So literally, if you've gotmore than 10% coverage of mould
(30:13):
on a surface, then you could beliable for some sort of design
failure and that will beinteresting how that goes in the
future.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
And if there is any um anyone contesting that, I
guess yeah I think we've um,we've done the wolfies on a few
of our jobs now and where it'ssomething else that we're trying
to push architects, designersto, to add to their process and
just make it part of theirstandard um set of documents.
But it was definitely aneye-opener for me and I was
quite surprised how much detailthey went to.
(30:44):
Like we had to go backwards andforwards and tell them exact
build up of the wall and wherewe're going to have bracing, ply
and all those types of things.
And just to see like for me as abuilder again, just to be able
to see in a document how like Idon't know how you have a four
wall cabin or just a small cabinsee the difference between the
(31:04):
floor, the walls and theceilings.
Like you're using the samesorts of products but you might
change one.
Like there might be bracingflow in one wall and on another
wall there might be, might be aanicon on the roof but but not
on the walls.
I can just to see how all thenumbers change.
So it's definitely somethingthat builders need to be more
aware of and I think the onlyway to make someone more aware
is for them to see thosedocuments and to see how the
(31:26):
change is actual, how whatthey're doing affects the
numbers but one thing is likewhere we talk, go back to the
practical part is which you dothe movie, because you want to
know what the long-term outcomeis.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
and mold wise most times we have significant mold
issue before even the buildingis finished, because our frames
are exposed for a way too longtime to wind and weather.
And I don't have to tell anyonewho is actually building houses
.
We just talk about sometimesdays and weeks and then you have
the first mold spots on yourbottom plates or yellow tongue,
(32:02):
whatever it is, and you see itmore and more in the market also
because mold is a building code.
People are afraid of mold.
You can't actually acceptanymore for a building getting
wet, for a building stayingsitting in the rain for like
three months plus it's alreadytoo long.
Even three weeks is actuallytoo long.
So it means also like we justkind of have a bit of a glass
(32:24):
kugel.
But it seems like we definitelywill change and we have to
change the building sequence andwe really say like, okay, we
actually want to seal up ourbuilding ASAP.
And this is where our productscome in place again, of course,
like because you really want toframe as fast as you can and you
want to wrap your building asfast as you can to keep your
building dry and I know that afew builders, like in Tassie,
(32:46):
they post quite a lot about it.
They're actually putting fans upbecause they know the frame got
wet during the constructionphase.
I don't know if we have to goto this extent, but I still
think it's good to be verycautious about moulds.
They're putting fans up and ingeneral moulds don't feel very
comfortable if it's a verydrafty area.
But the awareness on the marketAustralia-wide is getting more
(33:12):
and more that we really have tokeep our frame mold-free too and
quite often also like a lot ofyour customers and Sarah's
customers, they're actually veryaware of the problems of moles
and very often the customers hadactually issues like Estmar and
Jesse might say something aboutEstmar in Australia.
So it means to build a newhouse and then they have a site
visit and then they see themouldy bottom plate and
(33:35):
everything else and happy aboutit and I had it a few times.
Then actually the house ownerasked the builder to replace the
bottom plate because it wasmouldy yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
So I think the traditional approach or the old
school thinking, if you like,and the she'll be right mate
attitude that you get inAustralia and maybe even more so
in Queensland, I don't know,but taking a wet timber
structure and wrapping it inaluminium foil and then
expecting a good outcome isinsanity.
(34:08):
I'm wrapping, you wrap yourveggies in aluminum foil after
you've chopped them up and youput them in the fridge.
Right, you don't wrap yourhouse in aluminum foil because
it traps all the moisture.
It's a hundred percent vaporbarrier.
If it's in the timber structure, it's going to stay in the
timber structure and what causesmold to grow is a food source,
ie timber, the correcttemperature and humidity, and
(34:30):
then you've got mold growing.
So if you get rid of thathumidity and you allow the
structure to dry out, thenyou're going to reduce the risk
of mold.
And that's why, even in theclimates like southeast
Queensland and moving further upto the wet tropics maybe not in
the wet tropics, but further upnorth than Brisbane still
(34:51):
vapour permeability is a goodthing, but if it is any wet
timber it will dry out.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, no, it's definitely again, it's just
something that builders andtraders need to learn about, but
I'm not sure if it was thething I went to with you, Jesse,
but were you talking about?
It's like when you go hiking,you either buy a shitty jacket
or you buy a good Gore-Texjacket.
Was it you that was talkingabout that?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
I don't know whether it was me.
I don't use a Gore-Tex andthat's what I want.
It might be Dan.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Well, dan might have been Dan, but I've heard it
somewhere on your stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
No, I love the Gorotex one.
It's simple Keep the water outbut allow the water vapor to
escape.
Essentially, and that's themagic of the membranes magic,
the science of the membranes,the scientific magic of our
membranes, which is actuallyweatherproof, like water
barriers to liquid water, rain,but they're actually vapor
permeable and they're doing thiswithout any holes punched
(35:49):
through it, which they do in thereally old, archaic vapor
permeable foils.
It's literally aluminum foilwith nail bricks all through it.
But ours are 100% water barrier, so they've got no perforations
in them and that's how itallows the building to dry.
So, essentially, like you'resaying, like Gore-Tex, because
you don't want to go for a runin your raincoat plastic
(36:10):
raincoat, right yeah, It'd beabsolutely terrible inside that
after you're sweating in it.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Well, I think it's a good experiment for builders and
traders to go and do mate, gofor a jog with the old yellow
raincoat on and then put a proclimber, wrap themselves in pro
climber and go for runs.
Yeah, it works.
That's interesting.
Now, look, guys, I reallyappreciate your time.
Is there anything else you wantto get out to the listeners
(36:38):
about your product before wejump out of here?
Speaker 3 (36:45):
I'm always happy, like, we have new events so we
might do at a chat with Stuartabout, might do some practical
stuff on the stands, and soeveryone come in and have a play
.
We will have some boxes so wecan do some taping, which is
mainly about a practicaleducation.
Not not education, butexperiences.
There's heaps of documents andvideos online Videos not yet,
(37:10):
but documents, applicationguides.
I really recommend everyone forthe firsties using our products
really have a look into theapplication guides, because the
product is just as good as theinstall and if you install it to
the old way, which is codecompliant, it works.
But if you really want to havethe outcome, then install the
(37:33):
programmer way and youdefinitely will significantly
improve the performance of yourbuilding.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, awesome.
What about you, Jesse?
Speaker 1 (37:41):
I mean, dan touched on it as well.
We've talked a bit aboutmembranes and the membranes
themselves, but what Dan saidwas tapes and how to tape, and
really that is one ofProclimber's world-leading
technologies.
It's a technology that we sellthat seals all the membranes
together.
So the Tescon Xtora on theoutside, tescon Vana on the
(38:01):
inside, these tapes are the bestin the world world so
non-water-based adhesive, whichmeans that they stick in any
conditions and literally to towet surfaces.
So come and find out about ourtapes, our membranes, um, yeah,
that they are really like yousaid.
Once you use them, you can't goback.
So, and I've also heard thatyou got some, um, pretty big
(38:26):
guns coming to your event.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Uh, global big guns, yeah, mate yes, so we uh look so
, but this whole event is aboutrising the level of the industry
.
So my whole purpose in life nowis to create a new building
industry and, um, look, nooffense to anyone, but I just I
think, if we leave it up to ourpoliticians, our governments,
our associations, it's likewe're seeing it already.
(38:49):
It's too late, like we'vealready.
I'm not sure you guys probablymight have your own opinions on
this, but, like so many othercountries around the world have
dealt with the problems and areso far ahead of us and we should
have learned lessons from that.
Yeah, and I feel like we'reonly just starting to sort of
see the tip of the iceberg ofthe issues that are going
australia is going to have, andso the whole reason I'm uh, like
(39:13):
this event is not only to getpeople running better building
businesses, better tradebusinesses.
It's to get peopleunderstanding.
Like I don't see, apart fromyou guys, there's a lot of good
builders in tassie and down inmelbourne that are talking about
this sort of stuff, but we'renot putting people in front of
the industry that have theexperience and the knowledge and
(39:34):
are passionate about this stuff, and so, yeah, we've put a lot
on the line.
Um, we've teamed up with mattrisinger.
Uh, I'm not sure for peoplethat don't know matt risinger,
go and check him out, but Iwould say he's probably the
world leader in building science, maybe, um, and then on top of
that, we're bringing paulabaker-leport.
So she's been the world'sleading healthy home expert for
30 or 40 years now, so, um,number one best-selling books
(39:58):
when it comes to healthy homes.
Uh, number one best-sellingbooks when it comes to creating
healthy homes.
And and, uh, like, one of herbest books is called
prescriptions for a healthy home, because she believes that you,
actually you can avoid all yourprescriptions from your doctor
if you actually live in ahealthy building.
Yeah, so so, um, yeah, we'vepulled some big guns out, uh, as
(40:21):
well as a lot of really big,world-class aussie speakers, um,
and then also guys likeyourself that have got behind
the event to showcase productsthat are going to take this
industry to the next level.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
And so, yeah, I really appreciate you guys
getting behind the event and Ithink you guys and Matt Risinger
and Paul go hand in hand, soit's going to be really good to
see you guys there and geteveryone speaking together and
asking questions.
So, yeah, I can't thank youguys enough for getting behind
the level up experience andbeing the major sponsor.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right with the um,
the building codes, and pushthem from the bottom.
Uh, we need people like youthat are showing how it's done
and promoting it, uh.
So it's a push and pull in myopinion.
So the, the pull from from youguys at the top and a push from
the bottom, uh.
So I'm still working on code,still working on standards.
That bar has to be raised andwe need you guys to show how
(41:15):
it's done so that I can point toyou guys and say I got hey,
building codes board, do whatthey're doing yeah, well, mate,
well uh, I would recommendgetting uh like, if you can't,
you're coming up, jesse, are you?
uh, I think I will.
Yeah, I'll be up there.
I'm looking forward to meetingum the crew and um catching up
with uh matt reisner and hisboys.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
I ran into them at the uh at fierce fond two years
ago in in uh, texas yeah so thatwas, that was good well, mate,
I'd, uh I I'd recommend tryingto get some time with Paula and
having a conversation with her.
So she's actually beeninstrumental in getting Building
Codes in America upgraded.
So she's a powerhouse.
She doesn't put herself outthere a lot on social media, she
(41:57):
leads a pretty quiet life, butwhen it comes to people's health
and how that relates tobuilding, she's an absolute
powerhouse.
So, yeah, definitely get aconversation going with her.
But, um, guys, I look forward toseeing you up here.
Look for all and everyonethat's listening, tickets are
selling really quickly.
So, uh, you need to go to theduanepeircecom website, grab
(42:18):
your tickets.
There's three different optionsthere, um, and you help us
create a new building industry.
Come along for the day.
Get in touch with the guys atPro Climber, come and touch and
feel and see what these productsare about.
Talk to the guys, learn aboutthese products and you can see
the value that you'll be able toadd to your clients, not only
with the quality of the buildbut the quality of their life.
(42:38):
So, guys, thanks for your time,really appreciate it and can't
wait to catch up on may 30th andyou keep doing what you're
doing.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
That's great.
Yeah, keep going.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Thanks to angie cheers, guys appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
are you ready to build smarter, live better and
enjoy life?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
then head over to live like buildcom forward,
slash, elevate to get startedeverything discussed during the
level up podcast with me, duanepierce, is based solely on my
own personal experiences andthose experiences of my guests.
(43:16):
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.
Taking a wet timber structure and wrapping it in
aluminum foil and then expectinga good outcome is insanity.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I really think Australia is behind the eight
ball when it comes to buildinghealthier and better quality
homes.
G'day guys, welcome back toanother episode of Level Up.
We have got another crackingepisode for you today.
We actually have two of theteam at Proclimer Australia, and
(00:31):
the reason we have these guyson the podcast today is because
Proclimer has come on board asone of the major sponsors for my
coming up Level Up experiencewith Dwayne Pearce on the 30th
of May here in Brisbane.
I tell you what it is going tobe the greatest event the
construction industry has everseen.
If you're into personaldevelopment, business
development, building, science,healthy homes, there has never
(00:52):
been anything put on like thisin australia, I believe.
Um, as on top of that, we'regoing to have a heap of trade
stalls and demonstrations and,fifth, over fifty thousand
dollars worth of lucky doorprizes.
So you do not want to miss thisevent.
So massive shout out to.
We got the guys here Jess andDan from Proclimate.
How are you guys?
Good, not too bad at all.
(01:13):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
No, look, I can't thankProclimate Australia enough for
jumping on board and becomingthe major sponsor for this event
.
Healthy homes is something I'mvery passionate about.
I haven't, uh, gone right downthe the passive home path yet.
I've done all my training andstuff, but I'm really focused on
healthy homes and um.
(01:34):
I really think australia isbehind the eight ball when it
comes to building healthier andbetter quality homes and um.
So I jumped on the bandwagonwith pro climber after doing a
lot of, having a lot ofconversations with Stewie
Shelton and also Hamish I thinkyou guys know Hamish pretty well
as well.
I know him and for me it's justa no-brainer Once you
(01:57):
understand it, what works, I'llnever put anything else on a
house ever again.
Jesse, you're the why guy,dan's the how guy, so do you
want to talk a little bit about,um, why we should be using your
product?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
yeah, absolutely so.
I mean, I guess it's it's thatpoint where you realize that
there's a better way of doingthings right.
And and the same thing thathappened to you happened to me,
which was, um going through thehistory of how we build in
australia and working out theremust be a better way to make
buildings that don't leak water,uh, they're healthy, they're
durable, energy efficient.
(02:32):
And that's when I startedlooking towards germany and then
um working out how did theymake the solutions work?
And this all comes down to,yeah, the, the physics of the
rain, the wind pressures, uh,climate, how you design for
climate, uh all those you knowreally detailed sort of stuff.
But, as I was um saying to youearlier, duane, that there's a
(02:57):
um inflection point somewhere inaustralia where it's turning
from a cold climate into a warmclimate.
And the interesting part aboutyou guys in southeast Queensland
is that you're somewhere aroundthat zone of hey, I'm not sure
if we're cold Like it's quitecool in winter, but it also gets
stinking hot in summer.
But I think the thing aboutproclimbing what we do in the
(03:19):
southeast Queensland region orthe subtropics, is the
weatherproofing and the amountof rain that you get.
And that's where Proclima comesin with awesome weatherproofing
solutions, and once youunderstand it I think which
we'll hopefully go through in abit more detail today then you
can't really go away from it.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
It just makes sense.
Once you know it, you can,can't change.
It's just, you'll never go backto doing things the old way or
all the way that a lot of peopleare still doing it.
But, um, dan, do you want totell us a little bit about the
the how like, why we, why weshould be using proclama when it
comes to the hair?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
ah, for sure, and I think, like the house is very
important because it doesn'thelp you at all if you have a
sports car and a p-playerdriving it.
So, um, for specifically, Ithink you can hear like I have a
german accent, so myself I'mfrom germany, I'm a german
master, carpenter, constructionengineer, and which is something
(04:17):
which doesn't exist.
So this construction engineerthing is the guy who is actually
responsible inside for thepractical part, for the
application, and you need topractice the background.
So it means kind of you canjust really apply the sciency
part what jesse was talkingabout if you really understand
his part and for me alsounderstanding the builders part
and combine it on the buildingside to actually get the outcome
(04:39):
you wanted to, or your plan foryour design, for yeah, I think
it's something that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And just to go back, I guess what Jesse was
mentioning about theweatherproof layer like I was
led to believe through my wholeapprenticeship in the first well
up until a few years ago, thatyour cladding or your brickwork
was your weathertight layer, andunderstanding that it's not and
(05:06):
how the whole, all the buildingscience and the breathability
and all this stuff behind, andthen I think for me, the the big
push for me to know more wasdefinitely the condensation and
the mold.
Um, and I know from my point ofview that come from us doing a
lot of refurbs and bigrenovations and pull it when you
pull apart a house.
I think it's the best way tolearn is when you pull apart a
lot of refurbs and bigrenovations and pull it when you
pull apart a house.
I think it's the best way tolearn is when you pull apart a
(05:27):
part of house, you can seewhat's failed and what hasn't
worked.
And so I hear so many builders,uh, all the time saying, oh,
I've never seen moisture inhouse.
We do renovations, I pullthings apart.
It's not wet, but you've got tolook for signs.
And when you start looking forsigns, you can see that there's
been moisture in the home andthe insulation's been wet, or
there's the signs of wood rotbecause of moisture on timber
(05:50):
and there's signs of mold on theback of plasterboard and backs
of claddings and those types ofthings.
So for me it's that wholeunderstanding how the house is
supposed to perform.
And on top of that I think itwas um stewie from shelton group
that actually uh informed me ofjust how much moisture is
(06:11):
produced in a average home withfour people in it, just with
day-to-day living, and what thatsort of stuff's never like.
It's just never been on myradar, I've never been told so.
So how has your product helpedwith that sort of stuff?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So going back to your first part of your question, or
first statement, I should say,where you were led to believe
that the cladding is aweather-tight layer.
I don't think you're alone,because there's people at
building codes level that stillthink that.
So we're trying to change thatand get the information out to
the market to understand thatthe cladding will never be
(06:49):
weathertight.
And even if it is, when youinstall it with a whole bunch of
goop in all the joints andeverything else, it's got a
limited lifetime until all thatcracks up and it's going to leak
water behind it.
So that second line of defense,typically called sarking, which
we don't like that word,particularly in Southeast
Queensland, because when youthink of sarking, what
(07:13):
immediately comes to your mind?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
The shitty old foil mate.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Correct, and that's not what we want to talk about.
And that's not what Proclimatedoes, because it's not vapor
permeable and the vaporpermeable weather barriers or
weather-resistive barriers, whatwe call it which is essentially
where the sarkin goes, goes onthe outside of the stub frames.
Typically, if that's wind tight, it becomes water tight, and we
(07:36):
have very detailed applicationprocedures for that to make sure
that that is all very wellimplemented.
So that's the external moistureside.
But then we're talking aboutthe internal moisture which you
alluded to, which was the watervapour generated by people
inside the house.
And that's when you startgetting to the interior vapour
(07:58):
control systems, or morespecifically, the Proclimate
IntelliPlus system, and that isdesigned to stop water vapor
diffusing into the wall systemsand potentially condensating
within the insulated studcavities.
Essentially, um, so you guys upin southeast queensland, or
queensland in general, love the,the timber frame right, the,
(08:18):
the old queenslander style home.
So, um, yeah, that's.
You know typically what we dowe protect that timber, frame it
.
But then dan, so if dan, thenDan, so Dan's the guy that can
tell you how all that works indetail yeah, so, dan, do you
want to fill us in on that?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
oh for sure.
I think it's also interestingto mention is the history of
buildings also, because I think,like the really old buildings,
they haven't had much problemsbecause the old Queenslander
building is normally have gapsand cracks everywhere, so you
always have a consistent airflow.
But back then you haven't hadalso air con units, so you
maximum we had a fan.
(08:55):
So it means you actually didn'tcreate many problems because
the house was so leaky.
You just live with it thatinternal temperature always
equals external temperature.
But from the moment normally westart to put in insulation and
crank up the aircon unit.
This is when we havetemperature differences between
inside and outside.
This is when we actually startto create problems, and that's
what Ocesi meant like.
(09:16):
This is where we want tounderstand the climate we live
in, if it's more like a heatingclimate or a colder climate, and
specifically as a builder, it'svery important also to
understand that way he'sbuilding, because you can't in a
tropical area, you can't justbuild.
Um, no, I lost my track.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
what I was trying to say before you um, I'll let you
get your train of thought backthere, dan, but like I'll just
jump in there for a minute, likeI, I guess it's because I've
put a lot of time and energy inand talking people and learning
more about this stuff.
But how?
Because I'm putting a lot oftime and energy in and talking
people and learning more aboutthis stuff, but how I explain it
to a lot of builders now whenthey ask me questions.
And I actually explain it toour homeowners when they come to
(09:54):
us now, because I make it veryclear from the very beginning
that this is our standard now,like proclimate and a cavity
batten system and with customflashings and a breathable
cavity around the home is how webuild, and so I'm.
I am not going to be thecheapest builder, but I
guarantee I'm going to build youa good home.
But I explain to people that,like, if you're not, if you're
(10:18):
unaware of what you're doing,which most builders are, and
tradies over time.
So, like you just said, olderhomes were full of leaks, so
they so.
Because a lot of builders say,oh, we live in an old home,
there's nothing wrong with it,it's fine and it probably is
fine.
But then over time, like,obviously, we started like
(10:38):
manufacturing's gotten better.
So, without builders being soaware or aware at all about it,
we started putting betterwindows and better doors into
homes, which has then started toseal them up more, and then
they brought in this sarking.
So then all of a sudden we'reputting this, this building wrap
around these buildings, whichis sealing them up even more,
and then they bring in a codechange that shoves insulation in
(11:01):
those walls.
So, like over the last 20 to 30years, we've been going from
houses that had a lot of likeleaks and cracks and breathe to
slowly just sealing our housesup more and more and more,
without us being aware of it, toa point, like you said, then
you go and throw airconditioning in those sealed up
boxes, you change thetemperature from inside to
(11:23):
outside and all of a suddenyou've got issues with mold and
condensation, and so I thinkit's it's like.
I think people need to be awareof that whole journey, because
that's all.
If you're just going to workevery day, you're getting a set
of plans, you're building ahouse, you're throwing in
windows, you're putting claddingon it and you're not
considering any of this stuff,you're not going to know any
(11:44):
different.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Absolutely.
This is what I've talked aboutin the past, which is the
cascade of intervention whereyou start with well, hang on, we
need energy-efficient buildings, we need to insulate them.
So then you start insulating,changing the temperature
dynamics of the walls and theroof systems, so one side gets
hotter or stays warmer, warmer,one side gets cooler or vice
versa, in summer the cool sideand keep the air conditioning on
(12:08):
the inside um, and then thatchanges all the dynamics and the
surface temperatures in wall orroof systems and potential for
moisture condensation or ummoisture accumulation.
But then, going a step further,like you're saying, air
tightness.
And a question for you, duane,is is people moving towards more
(12:28):
airtight buildings in southeastQueensland?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Mate, I'm not sure.
I went and did all my passivehouse training and passed and
got all that.
I think there's a handful ofpassive home builders in
Brisbane.
It's not something we get Like.
I've only ever been asked forone passive house and and it
didn't end up going ahead.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, um, but but without yeah, without
specifically talking aboutpassive house, just acceptance
that an airtight buildingretains the cool air in summer
as much as it does retain thewarm air in winter.
There's no point in taking anold Queenslander house with 10mm
gaps in the floorboards that'sthree metres off the ground put
(13:11):
an air conditioner in, all thecool air falls straight through
and you end up with a veil of ashower of cool air when you're
standing in the carport below.
Yeah, that's completely energyinefficient.
So I guess the and I'm goingback sort of 10 years in my
career when I was working, ormore working with CSRO trying to
(13:31):
work out where the benefits ofair tightness actually lie.
And the benefits of airtightness lie in the southern
states, where it's really coldbut also where it's really humid
.
Because if you don't keep thehumid air outside your building
in summer, then it comes intoyour building and the air
conditioner has to pull out allthat humidity and that becomes
(13:53):
really energy intensive.
But that humidity coming inalso creates potential for
condensation and mold growth.
So managing all this andbalancing all these um different
criteria is not an easy thing.
But going back to the cascade ofintervention insulation yes,
okay, we need to make it.
Air tightness to stop all thatand more airtight to make stop
(14:15):
all the moisture coming throughthe systems and going where we
don't want it to go.
And then it's like, okay, we'vegot more airtight building.
What about indoor air quality?
Okay, we've got to have someindoor ventilation.
So how do we do that?
Through louvers?
Well, no, the louvers aren'tairtight.
Okay, so then we go to acontinuous mechanical
ventilation system to providethe fresh air.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So you start moving along a trajectory on the
building code that is pointingsomething towards looks like
passive house yeah, yeah, it'sum, and look, it's something
that we all need to educateourselves, like tradies and
builders and and homeowners likeI'm actually finding,
especially with the healthy homestuff, like we're getting an
(14:55):
incredible amount of inquiry, um, since we've been going down
that path, but it's like mostthings, like the clients are
more educated than what a lot ofbuilders and and tradies are,
and so they, so they're askingthese questions.
But I like to dig deeper intothings because I find like if a
client comes to a builder andsays, hey, I want a healthy home
, and the builder only does onepart of it, then they failed.
(15:18):
Like to have a healthy home,you've got to have a complete
system, and that's, I think,where a lot of our industry
falls over.
It's a lot of do a bit here, doa bit there, and it doesn't
really all fit together.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
And that key thing is what you said system, but
thinking of the house as a wholesystem, not just a
weatherproofing system, but thehouse with all those overlaying
features, the weather tighteners, air tighteners, ventilation,
insulation systems.
It's a whole system that workstogether.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah, dan, can you tell us a little bit more about,
like the on-site stuff, likehow does all this stuff work
when you actually get to saw it,and um, because it's a bit to
know yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
And the funny part is also like when you hear the
first time from it, you got thequestion from the house owner or
for from the client to actuallybuild a healthy home or energy
efficient home.
Then you have builders whotrust to the minimal just to get
to satisfy the customer.
And then you have builders likeyou and like Stu and so many
other builders who actually diveinto it.
(16:18):
And then, specifically thefirst half of the year it's a
very, very steep learning curveand the feedback I got a lot is
kind of the first half of theyear is very depressive because
you learn so much and then youthink back of all the work
you've done in the past.
So it means the first half ofthe year you have a lot of
worries and sleep at night butbecause you can't unknow what
(16:39):
you know what you said before.
So it means kind of you have togo through all the stuff.
But then after a year, one anda half, then the confidence
comes back also.
And the confidence comes backalso that you're actually really
on site.
You apply the materials, theproducts, you change your
systems from the old schooltraditional building style and
you actually change bits andpieces, for example, not having
(17:00):
direct fix gluing.
And the funny part is, ofcourse, you just sell a
millimeter on the inside and amillimeter on the outside, plus
a few tapes, but this isactually not where the story
stops.
So, specifically, of course,you just sell a millimeter on
the inside and a millimeter onthe outside, plus a few tapes,
but this is actually not wherethe story stops.
So, specifically, when I do mypractical trainings, it's easy
to say, yeah, yeah, this is howyou should build, this should be
your wall builder.
But from this first moment whenyou hit a corner or when your
(17:20):
wall hits the roof, then we talkabout details, and this is
where it's very important tosupport all builders and that we
work together, that youactually have standard solutions
like details for all theseinternal and external corners,
for all these potential problems.
And also I share lots of tipsand tricks.
And this is where I would saymy experience working in Germany
(17:42):
as a GP for 20 years comes inhandy, also because I realize
very often I have afundamentally different way to
see ticks and think about it.
Very often I'm wearing blackand white, so I don't mind to
cut pieces out and remove thembecause I think later on it's
going to be way faster and moreefficient.
And very often it's a lot andvery often you can also change
(18:04):
bits and pieces, but havingbattens on so that the
counterbends actually long runactually overlap the membrane
because the membranes can't beexposed to UV.
And a simple detail is like inthe old days, we just overlap
the sark into the gutter, butyou know exactly how it looks
like after a few years becausesun hits the membrane of the
sarking and this disintegrates.
These are all small steps,which is important to actually
(18:27):
create a durable installation ofour products and the whole
system.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, definitely.
And, like I said, we've beenusing Proclimate for just on or
just over two years now andevery job we're learning.
Stu's probably got sick of meringing him and checking in on
things.
I send him pictures and hesends me pictures back.
I love it.
The big thing now is gettingour whole team involved, like
(18:53):
educating our team on why we'reusing these products.
Um, like the proclimer.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
But where you go, you're right, you're going I
just want to mention somethingbecause, like, it's important to
see the whole story, like thewhy and how they belong together
.
And and I see, like Jesse hadthis idea from the beginning.
Even before I started, jessealways had this idea like we
need something to tell the wholestory.
And you came to the event alsothat Jesse wrote the Australia
(19:18):
Study, which I always recommendto really everyone to read, and
because, like, the first eightchapters are actually the why
and the last chapter it's notbecause it's just one chapter,
but it's a big chapter isactually the how.
And when Jess and I went on theroadshow also, we had two
presentations One was the whyand the other one was the how.
So all these presentations arealso available on the Proclamer
(19:41):
YouTube channel and the documentyou can download for free, of
course, at the Proclamer website.
But I think it would beinteresting to ask Jesse what
your thought process was behind,because I think it tells the
whole story of Australianbuilding.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I'm going to go back a step.
I'm going to ask Dwayne aquestion Are you a nerdy builder
or a practical nerd?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I would say a practical nerd.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Oh, really, I like asking people that question.
I consider myself a practicalnerd, um, so I do nerdy stuff
like write australia studieswhich have a lot of um, uh,
technical detail and prettycharts and graphs and.
But in the back of theaustralia study there's also a
(20:27):
whole section on what people aredoing around Australia,
including some of the people youwould be networking with Dwayne
, like Hamish White and MattCarland in Melbourne, and a lot
of people from New South Walesand Brisbane as well.
But that study is aiming tooutline the science and then
(20:48):
actually show that it can bebuilt, it can be done and this I
think in Australia there'salways been this chasm in the
middle of the builders and thenthe designers, the nerds.
You know the architects and theengineers and it's like, well,
that can't be built.
But these guys don't reallyknow the architects and
engineers don't reallyunderstand the practical side of
things and the practical guysthe builders don't really
(21:14):
understand the.
The architects and engineersdon't really understand the
practical side of things and thepractical guys the builders
don't really understand thesciency side of things.
So what we're trying to do ismeet in the middle and go well,
actually we need an army of umpractical nerds and an army of
um nerdy builders and they canwork together as a we, not an us
and them sort of scenario, andthen we can get really good
billings.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Definitely Look.
I definitely recommend anybodythat hasn't seen or heard about
or read the study that Jesse'sdid go and check that out.
So that's available on theProclimate Australia website.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Yeah, it's downloadable from the Proclimate
website.
Go to resources page and youshould be able to find it.
But yeah, it's not a short book.
There's quite a few pages in it, but worth a read.
How long did you wrote on it?
How long I took about 4 yearsin between everything else.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, it's one of those things I think you have to
.
So what we see, or what I seehappening now I'm not sure how
many pro client builders in um,southeast queensland are using
proclimate, but we get buildersdrive past our sites.
They reach out and like what's?
What's that blue stuff?
I see it seeing you post somevideos about it, like what are
(22:21):
you talking about?
And so there's a lot of peopleout there that are interested.
We get a lot of homeowners thatreach out from our social media
say, hey, what's this Proclimateproduct you're using?
But the very first thing thateveryone asks is cost, like how
much that add to the job?
And in the last two years myanswer on this has changed a lot
.
It started out by saying, look,it is more expensive than the
(22:45):
old foil crap that we've beenusing, but it's a far better
product.
Um, and then we would have someconversation with that, whereas
now the first thing that comesout of my mouth if anyone asks
me is it's not about the cost.
We are adding so much value notonly to that house but to the
people that live in the houseslives we're.
We're creating a healthy spacefor them, and to me that's
(23:07):
priceless.
So I think a lot of builderslike we talked about this a
little bit before we startedrecording.
For me, it's about coming upwith a standard that my business
builds to and selling that tomy clients.
It's not about what the clientlike.
If a client come to me and said, oh, we need to save some money
(23:29):
, you need to take that productout, then I'd say, oh, look,
we're not the builder for you,because that's how important it
is to me.
Now I want to make sure I'musing the right product on my
homes and I even put my blueshirt on today because they're
blue profiler.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
We'll give you some iron-on logos for it first, um,
like it's, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
That's the sort of barrier we need to get over,
isn't it?
Because it's like anything like.
Yes, it is a little bit moreexpensive than the old foil
stuff, but the foil is crap, butit's.
We're not comparing apples toapples, are we?
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Absolutely, absolutely.
It's creating or comparing thebottom of the barrel to the best
in class and, like youmentioned, which I like, but if
I ask you the question, what'sthe value of your health?
What is the answer?
Well, it's priceless.
Correct, it's priceless, so doit.
(24:29):
Yeah, and it does come down tothat, but it's all around
moisture and then, ultimately,the mold growth.
That's.
That's what we're targeting interms of healthy, dry, healthy
buildings, and every house I'velived in australia, up until the
one I live in now, is gotmoisture somewhere in it and
mold somewhere in it.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, and it's just.
I think it's becoming a lotmore like more and more people
are getting aware of it now,because they're obviously
they've obviously the sciencenow is showing that a lot of
health illnesses are because ofmold.
So people are starting to askthe questions, Like I'm pretty
close to Zara Dakota, I've doneall her training and her program
(25:10):
and she's spreading awarenessnow about what mold can cause in
your arms and the illnessesthat can be contributed to it.
So it's putting thisinformation out there, isn't it
Constantly talking about it,getting it in front of people so
that people don't have a choicebut to go down the proclimate
path and build a better qualityhome.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It is an awareness.
But to give you a bit of anexample, my wife is German, so
I've got a bit of insight.
Daniel's German, but when Ispeak to my wife and Daniel will
tell you, I'll pass over toDaniel.
But the acceptance of Mons inthe German culture, what happens
in Germany?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
in the German culture .
What happens in Germany?
You sue the landlords or youknow definitely it's a
completely wrong use of yourplace.
So there are two reasons youreally know it's a really bad
building or you never, ever,open your windows and doors.
So there's one or the other,but there's no exceptions at all
.
Yeah right, so if you're rentinga house, you can sue the
(26:08):
landlord if it's got mold in itif you can prove that's, if you
can prove that's actually astructural problem like thermal
breaks or leaky windows, yes, ofcourse.
But on the other hand, ofcourse you have a problem if you
just never open your windowsand doors.
You have an aquarium andspecifically if you live in an
all-or-building, they havethermal breaks everywhere,
(26:29):
specifically corners, and thenyou have an aquarium and you
don't heat and cool properly andyou don't properly, you don't
heat properly, you create coldsurfaces and then you have mold
yeah unbelievable yeah soaustralia?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I feel like australia pushes back because everything
come like.
I don't know this is only myopinion, but a lot of our
industry is driven by largervolume type builders and it's so
driven by cost and I personallybelieve that whole conversation
needs to shift from cost tovalue add.
Like is having the cheapesthome, like the home you can
(27:04):
afford, actually the best thingfor you and your family?
And if we educate more peopleon what is actually happening
inside their homes, they'regoing to start to ask questions
and they're going to want toknow what's actually happening
in behind the walls and how it'saffecting their health
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
I think this is where the reason changes with moulds
and oofy is interesting, which Ithink you should yeah, I was
thinking exactly the same thing,because I you read the building
code right, right, brian yeah,yeah, well yeah, yeah, I mean,
you'd be well aware that, um, inthe last revision, or 2022
revision, the word mold wasmentioned in the health and
(27:44):
amenity section of the buildingcode.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
so for the first time ever, in the body of the
building code of Australia, theword mould is mentioned.
So therefore, what's happeningin Germany, where you go back
and sue the landlord because hegot mould, is a potential, real
future for Australia too,because it means you didn't
comply with the minimum codecompliance.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I think that's something that all builders and
tradies need to get up to speedon, because once they start
mentioning those types of thingsin our building codes, we are
responsible.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
The thing is with energy efficiency you miss a bat
in your wall and get a coldspot.
Does anyone ever know?
Not really.
But if you start getting mold,mold somewhere, you see it and
it becomes visual.
And as soon as it becomesvisual, then it becomes a
problem and and the first thingpeople complain about is
aesthetic defects right, uh, soso it's what you can see.
(28:43):
But if you can't see and it'shidden, then then you've got a
real insidious problem.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, I like the way You're right, you go Dan.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I'll just say maybe you want to be more precise,
chess, because I think we have alot of listeners who are more
practical.
So like you can really say,like what's the mode index of
free and how you actually canevaluate what it is, because I
think it's always on thelisteners the listeners.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
They actually want to know how to solve it, or what's
the starting point, so that, um, okay, going back to being a
nerd part, right?
So, using computer software um,woofy, uh is a german based
software you can use thissoftware to predict what's
actually happening in thatbuilding structure.
Uh, so this is a design phase,engineering, architectural phase
of a building.
So how actually do I layerthose insulation layers with the
vapor permeable membranes andvapor control layers?
(29:32):
And while doing stuff funkylike putting insulation on the
outside of the building, whichsome high performance builders
might be doing, then it changesthe whole dynamics of that
system and where you'd like,where you're likely to get mold
growth or high humidity,condensation and mole growth.
So the mold index in thebuilding code is actually, uh,
calculable.
We're using the woofy softwareand it's got stated this limit
(29:53):
of mole growth index of threeand it's like, okay, well, so
what?
What does that mean?
This calculable index of threeactually means going back and
following the research back upto um, up to europe.
Then you find out that that isactually 10 coverage, coverage
of mould on a surface.
So literally, if you've gotmore than 10% coverage of mould
(30:13):
on a surface, then you could beliable for some sort of design
failure and that will beinteresting how that goes in the
future.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
And if there is any um anyone contesting that, I
guess yeah I think we've um,we've done the wolfies on a few
of our jobs now and where it'ssomething else that we're trying
to push architects, designersto, to add to their process and
just make it part of theirstandard um set of documents.
But it was definitely aneye-opener for me and I was
quite surprised how much detailthey went to.
(30:44):
Like we had to go backwards andforwards and tell them exact
build up of the wall and wherewe're going to have bracing, ply
and all those types of things.
And just to see like for me as abuilder again, just to be able
to see in a document how like Idon't know how you have a four
wall cabin or just a small cabinsee the difference between the
(31:04):
floor, the walls and theceilings.
Like you're using the samesorts of products but you might
change one.
Like there might be bracingflow in one wall and on another
wall there might be, might be aanicon on the roof but but not
on the walls.
I can just to see how all thenumbers change.
So it's definitely somethingthat builders need to be more
aware of and I think the onlyway to make someone more aware
is for them to see thosedocuments and to see how the
(31:26):
change is actual, how whatthey're doing affects the
numbers but one thing is likewhere we talk, go back to the
practical part is which you dothe movie, because you want to
know what the long-term outcomeis.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
and mold wise most times we have significant mold
issue before even the buildingis finished, because our frames
are exposed for a way too longtime to wind and weather.
And I don't have to tell anyonewho is actually building houses
.
We just talk about sometimesdays and weeks and then you have
the first mold spots on yourbottom plates or yellow tongue,
(32:02):
whatever it is, and you see itmore and more in the market also
because mold is a building code.
People are afraid of mold.
You can't actually acceptanymore for a building getting
wet, for a building stayingsitting in the rain for like
three months plus it's alreadytoo long.
Even three weeks is actuallytoo long.
So it means also like we justkind of have a bit of a glass
(32:24):
kugel.
But it seems like we definitelywill change and we have to
change the building sequence andwe really say like, okay, we
actually want to seal up ourbuilding ASAP.
And this is where our productscome in place again, of course,
like because you really want toframe as fast as you can and you
want to wrap your building asfast as you can to keep your
building dry and I know that afew builders, like in Tassie,
(32:46):
they post quite a lot about it.
They're actually putting fans upbecause they know the frame got
wet during the constructionphase.
I don't know if we have to goto this extent, but I still
think it's good to be verycautious about moulds.
They're putting fans up and ingeneral moulds don't feel very
comfortable if it's a verydrafty area.
But the awareness on the marketAustralia-wide is getting more
(33:12):
and more that we really have tokeep our frame mold-free too and
quite often also like a lot ofyour customers and Sarah's
customers, they're actually veryaware of the problems of moles
and very often the customers hadactually issues like Estmar and
Jesse might say something aboutEstmar in Australia.
So it means to build a newhouse and then they have a site
visit and then they see themouldy bottom plate and
(33:35):
everything else and happy aboutit and I had it a few times.
Then actually the house ownerasked the builder to replace the
bottom plate because it wasmouldy yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
So I think the traditional approach or the old
school thinking, if you like,and the she'll be right mate
attitude that you get inAustralia and maybe even more so
in Queensland, I don't know,but taking a wet timber
structure and wrapping it inaluminium foil and then
expecting a good outcome isinsanity.
(34:08):
I'm wrapping, you wrap yourveggies in aluminum foil after
you've chopped them up and youput them in the fridge.
Right, you don't wrap yourhouse in aluminum foil because
it traps all the moisture.
It's a hundred percent vaporbarrier.
If it's in the timber structure, it's going to stay in the
timber structure and what causesmold to grow is a food source,
ie timber, the correcttemperature and humidity, and
(34:30):
then you've got mold growing.
So if you get rid of thathumidity and you allow the
structure to dry out, thenyou're going to reduce the risk
of mold.
And that's why, even in theclimates like southeast
Queensland and moving further upto the wet tropics maybe not in
the wet tropics, but further upnorth than Brisbane still
(34:51):
vapour permeability is a goodthing, but if it is any wet
timber it will dry out.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, no, it's definitely again, it's just
something that builders andtraders need to learn about, but
I'm not sure if it was thething I went to with you, Jesse,
but were you talking about?
It's like when you go hiking,you either buy a shitty jacket
or you buy a good Gore-Texjacket.
Was it you that was talkingabout that?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
I don't know whether it was me.
I don't use a Gore-Tex andthat's what I want.
It might be Dan.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Well, dan might have been Dan, but I've heard it
somewhere on your stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
No, I love the Gorotex one.
It's simple Keep the water outbut allow the water vapor to
escape.
Essentially, and that's themagic of the membranes magic,
the science of the membranes,the scientific magic of our
membranes, which is actuallyweatherproof, like water
barriers to liquid water, rain,but they're actually vapor
permeable and they're doing thiswithout any holes punched
(35:49):
through it, which they do in thereally old, archaic vapor
permeable foils.
It's literally aluminum foilwith nail bricks all through it.
But ours are 100% water barrier, so they've got no perforations
in them and that's how itallows the building to dry.
So, essentially, like you'resaying, like Gore-Tex, because
you don't want to go for a runin your raincoat plastic
(36:10):
raincoat, right yeah, It'd beabsolutely terrible inside that
after you're sweating in it.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Well, I think it's a good experiment for builders and
traders to go and do mate, gofor a jog with the old yellow
raincoat on and then put a proclimber, wrap themselves in pro
climber and go for runs.
Yeah, it works.
That's interesting.
Now, look, guys, I reallyappreciate your time.
Is there anything else you wantto get out to the listeners
(36:38):
about your product before wejump out of here?
Speaker 3 (36:45):
I'm always happy, like, we have new events so we
might do at a chat with Stuartabout, might do some practical
stuff on the stands, and soeveryone come in and have a play
.
We will have some boxes so wecan do some taping, which is
mainly about a practicaleducation.
Not not education, butexperiences.
There's heaps of documents andvideos online Videos not yet,
(37:10):
but documents, applicationguides.
I really recommend everyone forthe firsties using our products
really have a look into theapplication guides, because the
product is just as good as theinstall and if you install it to
the old way, which is codecompliant, it works.
But if you really want to havethe outcome, then install the
(37:33):
programmer way and youdefinitely will significantly
improve the performance of yourbuilding.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, awesome.
What about you, Jesse?
Speaker 1 (37:41):
I mean, dan touched on it as well.
We've talked a bit aboutmembranes and the membranes
themselves, but what Dan saidwas tapes and how to tape, and
really that is one ofProclimber's world-leading
technologies.
It's a technology that we sellthat seals all the membranes
together.
So the Tescon Xtora on theoutside, tescon Vana on the
(38:01):
inside, these tapes are the bestin the world world so
non-water-based adhesive, whichmeans that they stick in any
conditions and literally to towet surfaces.
So come and find out about ourtapes, our membranes, um, yeah,
that they are really like yousaid.
Once you use them, you can't goback.
So, and I've also heard thatyou got some, um, pretty big
(38:26):
guns coming to your event.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Uh, global big guns, yeah, mate yes, so we uh look so
, but this whole event is aboutrising the level of the industry
.
So my whole purpose in life nowis to create a new building
industry and, um, look, nooffense to anyone, but I just I
think, if we leave it up to ourpoliticians, our governments,
our associations, it's likewe're seeing it already.
(38:49):
It's too late, like we'vealready.
I'm not sure you guys probablymight have your own opinions on
this, but, like so many othercountries around the world have
dealt with the problems and areso far ahead of us and we should
have learned lessons from that.
Yeah, and I feel like we'reonly just starting to sort of
see the tip of the iceberg ofthe issues that are going
australia is going to have, andso the whole reason I'm uh, like
(39:13):
this event is not only to getpeople running better building
businesses, better tradebusinesses.
It's to get peopleunderstanding.
Like I don't see, apart fromyou guys, there's a lot of good
builders in tassie and down inmelbourne that are talking about
this sort of stuff, but we'renot putting people in front of
the industry that have theexperience and the knowledge and
(39:34):
are passionate about this stuff, and so, yeah, we've put a lot
on the line.
Um, we've teamed up with mattrisinger.
Uh, I'm not sure for peoplethat don't know matt risinger,
go and check him out, but Iwould say he's probably the
world leader in building science, maybe, um, and then on top of
that, we're bringing paulabaker-leport.
So she's been the world'sleading healthy home expert for
30 or 40 years now, so, um,number one best-selling books
(39:58):
when it comes to healthy homes.
Uh, number one best-sellingbooks when it comes to creating
healthy homes.
And and, uh, like, one of herbest books is called
prescriptions for a healthy home, because she believes that you,
actually you can avoid all yourprescriptions from your doctor
if you actually live in ahealthy building.
Yeah, so so, um, yeah, we'vepulled some big guns out, uh, as
(40:21):
well as a lot of really big,world-class aussie speakers, um,
and then also guys likeyourself that have got behind
the event to showcase productsthat are going to take this
industry to the next level.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
And so, yeah, I really appreciate you guys
getting behind the event and Ithink you guys and Matt Risinger
and Paul go hand in hand, soit's going to be really good to
see you guys there and geteveryone speaking together and
asking questions.
So, yeah, I can't thank youguys enough for getting behind
the level up experience andbeing the major sponsor.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right with the um,
the building codes, and pushthem from the bottom.
Uh, we need people like youthat are showing how it's done
and promoting it, uh.
So it's a push and pull in myopinion.
So the, the pull from from youguys at the top and a push from
the bottom, uh.
So I'm still working on code,still working on standards.
That bar has to be raised andwe need you guys to show how
(41:15):
it's done so that I can point toyou guys and say I got hey,
building codes board, do whatthey're doing yeah, well, mate,
well uh, I would recommendgetting uh like, if you can't,
you're coming up, jesse, are you?
uh, I think I will.
Yeah, I'll be up there.
I'm looking forward to meetingum the crew and um catching up
with uh matt reisner and hisboys.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
I ran into them at the uh at fierce fond two years
ago in in uh, texas yeah so thatwas, that was good well, mate,
I'd, uh I I'd recommend tryingto get some time with Paula and
having a conversation with her.
So she's actually beeninstrumental in getting Building
Codes in America upgraded.
So she's a powerhouse.
She doesn't put herself outthere a lot on social media, she
(41:57):
leads a pretty quiet life, butwhen it comes to people's health
and how that relates tobuilding, she's an absolute
powerhouse.
So, yeah, definitely get aconversation going with her.
But, um, guys, I look forward toseeing you up here.
Look for all and everyonethat's listening, tickets are
selling really quickly.
So, uh, you need to go to theduanepeircecom website, grab
(42:18):
your tickets.
There's three different optionsthere, um, and you help us
create a new building industry.
Come along for the day.
Get in touch with the guys atPro Climber, come and touch and
feel and see what these productsare about.
Talk to the guys, learn aboutthese products and you can see
the value that you'll be able toadd to your clients, not only
with the quality of the buildbut the quality of their life.
(42:38):
So, guys, thanks for your time,really appreciate it and can't
wait to catch up on may 30th andyou keep doing what you're
doing.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
That's great.
Yeah, keep going.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Thanks to angie cheers, guys appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
are you ready to build smarter, live better and
enjoy life?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
then head over to live like buildcom forward,
slash, elevate to get startedeverything discussed during the
level up podcast with me, duanepierce, is based solely on my
own personal experiences andthose experiences of my guests.
(43:16):
The information, opinions andrecommendations presented in
this podcast are for generalinformation only, and any
reliance on the informationprovided in this podcast is done
at your own risk.
We recommend that you obtainyour own professional advice in
respect to the topics discussedduring this podcast.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.