February 25, 2025 • 36 mins
Dive into the meaningful discussion about the pro-life movement and its genuine commitment to supporting women in our latest episode. We explore the significant issue of whether pro-lifers genuinely care for women, addressing misconceptions surrounding this narrative. Our guest, Rachel Greiner from Christian Life Resources, provides valuable insights into the experiences of women who reach out for support and the overwhelmingly positive responses they receive from the pro-life community.
Whether you are an advocate, someone seeking answers, or simply curious about the pro-life movement, this conversation promises to enlighten and inspire. Together, let’s engage with compassion, understanding, and actionable support for women facing challenging circumstances, fostering a movement that truly listens and cares. Tune in and be part of the transformative narrative! Subscribe, share, and join us as we love them both.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rachel Greiner (00:01):
On today's episode.
Just giving a woman the chanceto chit-chat with someone while
her kids are playing on theplayground that can be huge.
Sometimes that's all you need.
Women are strong.
They can do tough things.
A lot of times they're justlooking for a little support,
just a little help, which istrue of everyone.
That's not unique to thosewithout unplanned pregnancy.
We all can, if we're honest,empathize and get where that
(00:24):
comes from.
Paul Snamiska (00:27):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (00:54):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz and I'm heretoday with Pastor Bob
Fleischman and we have a specialguest with us today, rachel
Greiner from Christian LifeResources, and we've had Rachel
on the podcast before and we'lldefinitely link that episode to
in our show notes for anybodywho hasn't heard Rachel.
(01:15):
It gives her a great backgroundstory and everything too, but
we really wanted to have Rachelon today to talk about this
topic.
It's basically the question ifwomen are being ignored by
pro-lifers.
This topic really is of highinterest to me personally.
(01:36):
When I started gettinginterested in the pro-life
movement, which was a few yearsbefore we started doing the
podcast here, I would go onlineand watch these videos and I
mean they're still up there toojust with interactions, like
with college students and youngpeople with pro-lifers, and so
(01:58):
many of the points always cameback to well, you pro-lifers
don't care at all about thewoman, you just care about the
baby, and that just seems to bereally embedded in the
pro-abortion side, thepro-choice side, and I think
(02:18):
it's just really great to talkabout, because you know it's
always good to see where theother side is coming from and
then being able to reflect onthat too.
And so, rachel, I think, willbe great with this conversation
too, in talking about this topic.
So we are told that pro-lifersonly care about the baby and not
(02:43):
about the woman.
Is this true?
Do pro-lifers really care aboutwomen?
Rachel Greiner (02:51):
I think throughout history we've noticed
that if something gets repeatedfrequently enough, that it
eventually just gets embraced bysociety, and I think this is a
really good example of that,where we've heard it so often
that a lot of people believe oh,it must be true, because I've
heard it so much.
The other day I was lookinginto something related to that.
(03:11):
There's this idea called theillusory truth effect and it's
the idea, again, that if yourepeat something often enough,
it's easier for you to believeit, regardless of if it's true.
And I was looking at it in thecontext of.
There was an MIT website thatwas talking about that idea that
we only use 10% of our brain,which I think is generous for
(03:32):
some of us.
But MIT actually said thatwasn't true.
They debunked it and part of itgoes to semantics, but the idea
that actually we use a lot moreof our brain every single day.
But I had always heard thatmyth and I bought it hook, line
and sinker and I think this is alittle bit something like that
and I think sometimes I'd liketo.
(03:55):
I hope that sometimes it'scoming from people who genuinely
do care about women and areconfused or concerned that
they're getting left behind.
I think some of the people donot have good intentions, but
I'm hoping that a small portionof those people at least are
just really, really uninformed.
And it's funny when I hearthings about you know, do
(04:16):
pro-lifers care about women?
Because a large percentage ofpro-lifers are women and we're
having conversations with womenand I always thought that was
interesting, especially if theysay do you really care about
women?
I would say we really careabout women, but talk is cheap.
We've all had people say thingsthat weren't true to us, or
(04:39):
we've maybe signed up for a cellphone and we think this deal
seems amazing and all it takesis a month or two to realize it
wasn't as good as it sounded.
And so it costs me nothing tosay I support women or I believe
in women.
That costs nothing, a fewseconds of my time.
So I think, instead of gettingcaught up with what people say,
(05:02):
it's great for us to look atwhat are the actions?
How do we back this up?
What are the numbers?
And the numbers are prettyconvincing to me.
We do some research based onthe services that pregnancy
centers offer, and there'sthousands of them across the
country, far more of them thanthere are, for example, abortion
clinics.
And we have figured out and Isay we, I mean Charlotte Lozier
(05:26):
and smarter people than me havefigured out that pregnancy
centers offer a value of wellover $300 million.
And again and again, thesepregnancy clinics are offering
them at zero cost, and so thatcan't be debated, and those are
services focused on the women.
We also know that when womenleave pregnancy centers and they
(05:50):
are surveyed about theirexperience, they consistently
will say to a tune of about 97%that they are very, very
satisfied with their experienceat a pregnancy center.
Because, again, I can say allkinds of things.
The proof is in the pudding.
What do the people say who arehaving these difficult,
unplanned pregnancies?
And so the beautiful thing is,with people like you, we get to
(06:16):
collaborate and we get to makesure that these women are
supported and that it isn't justlip service, that we are
walking with them step by step,no matter what they decide,
years and years after thepregnancy.
Bob Fleischmann (06:29):
Shortly after the Dobbs decision I was out on
the West Coast visiting one ofour churches and a couple wanted
to meet with the pastor and meand I was traveling with another
staff member and we met withthe couple and they were very
pro-life but they too had kindof almost bought into the idea
(06:50):
that the pro-life communitydoesn't show concern for the
women.
And they were just saying thatthey were disturbed over how
celebratory the pro-lifecommunity was about the Dobbs
decision, because now all ofthese women are going to suffer.
Community was about the Dobbsdecision because now all of
these women are going to suffer.
And it's exactly what Rachelwas saying is that you kind of
(07:14):
keep repeating a mantra.
Which is always the way thatpublic opinion is shifted is
that you introduce a mantra.
You keep like we see it at theend of life, you know death with
dignity, and then pretty soonpro-life people use the term and
so you introduce a mantra thatall they care about is the baby
and the mother suffersthroughout all this and it's
terrible and everything.
(07:34):
Well, you know, first of allthere's a practical element
Abortion is killing the baby.
Abortion isn't killing themother, it's killing the baby.
So of course we're concernedabout the most at-risk person,
but we've always demonstrated aconcern for both, because it
begins with the conversation,not with the baby, but with the
(07:55):
mother.
It begins with the conversationwith the mother, and all of our
support services in ourpregnancy care centers are all
structured to support the motherin what she's doing.
Because the baby is in the womb, we can't do anything more than
work with the mother.
Christa Potratz (08:13):
Yeah, and prepping for this too, I was
really trying to think a littlebit about, okay, you know, like
from our end, this is just notthe way we see it, right, like
we do see that we really careabout the mom, and so I was
thinking too like, well, okay,with the other side, you know,
we say like that they don't careat all about the baby, right,
(08:37):
and I mean.
But when you talk to likepro-choice people too, a lot of
them will say that they do lovechildren and they do care about
babies.
But because they care about thebaby, they feel like that the
child growing up in a world or asuffering environment, that
(08:58):
that is how they care about thebaby, that they should not get
that opportunity.
Now from us we would say, oh mygoodness, that's just terrible
to kill the baby like that.
They should not get thatopportunity.
Now from us, we would say, oh mygoodness, that's just terrible
to kill the baby.
You can't do that.
But I mean, it did just open upmy eyes to maybe see it
differently For us.
You know, we say that we careabout the mom because of all
(09:19):
these other things we do, butthey put us in a box because the
one thing that we don't do iswant to give her the choice to
make that decision.
Just really trying to thinkabout how we maybe also put the
other side in a box too, in someways.
Rachel Greiner (09:38):
Yeah, it's definitely easier to just make
assumptions about people than toactually engage with them and
do the hard work of listening,not to have a comeback or a drop
the mic moment, but tounderstand where they're coming
from and, in my experience, alot of times some of the more
passionate advocates forabortion.
(09:58):
There is some sort ofexperience that maybe a friend
had, or even it could be areally compelling TikTok story.
But I think often it is tied tosomething like that.
As soon as you can put a faceor attach a name to something,
it carries a different weight.
Which is part of why ultrasoundcan be so powerful is because
(10:19):
it's one thing to use euphemismsand words, but when you see
something, it becomes verydifferent.
And I think with what you'retalking about, I completely
agree, especially with the issueof poverty.
I think we've both seen orheard people say again and again
well, the truly compassionatething is to prevent this child
(10:41):
from suffering.
And so, instead of preventingthe suffering, we prevent the
child.
And so this idea of you knowthere's these women who are
facing real challenges, whetherit's relational or has to do
with poverty, and rather thanworking together across lines to
battle poverty, the solution,if you want to call it.
(11:01):
That is, to eliminate peoplewho would potentially live in
poverty.
And when we talk about puttingsomeone in a box, it's hard to
think of a more dramatic way toput someone in a box than to say
, before they're even born, thatwe know exactly how their life
is going to unfold and whetheror not we think it's good enough
to warrant them getting toremain alive.
Bob Fleischmann (11:23):
You know, a lot of times this gets into
polemics.
You know how the matter isdebated and I'm always struck by
the power of making anaccusation without ever
supporting it.
You know like, for example,they'll say well, you don't
really love women.
Well, you can say that, butbased on what?
What's the evidence?
(11:44):
What's the evidence?
What's the evidence thatpro-life people do not love
women?
Like Rachel pointed out, themajority of them that are in
high-profile positions are women.
So you're suggesting that theyhate themselves in the process
of having this love affair withthe child.
(12:06):
You know, I mean, sometimesit's just illogical, but there's
a lot to that argument that youkeep telling people, keep
telling people that and theybegin to swallow it hook, line
and sinker without everchallenging the presupposition
and I've learned anything asI've gotten older is that just
because somebody says somethingdoesn't mean I have to buy it.
So when they come to me andthey'll say, you know, well, you
(12:28):
guys don't care about mothers,my response now would be well,
give me an example.
Christa Potratz (12:35):
One of the things.
When they say, you know, wedon't like women or something, I
mean it is going back to like,well, we don't respect their
ability to choose, or that theycan make this choice.
One of the things, though, Imean, I always just think what
choice are we really giving tothe women to make?
(12:56):
The choice is to kill theirchild, because at the moment of
conception, too, we believe thatthat woman is a mother right,
and so I mean she already is amother, and so the choice is to
end the life of her child or toraise the child.
(13:17):
It's really not to be a motheror not, because she really is a
mother at that point.
And so the choice that we'regiving, I mean I just always
think, too, there's such amental component with it too,
and sometimes and I know, rachel, you can probably speak to this
too but that people maybe don'teven understand the choice they
(13:38):
made until years down the roadand what that choice really
meant to people.
Rachel Greiner (13:46):
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
If we are showing respect tosomeone, I think two of the ways
we do that is making sure thatthey have time to process the
information and to do somepersonal soul-searching and
figure out what do they want,wearing the pros and the cons,
and then also making sure theyhave accurate information.
(14:08):
I'd like to think and this issomething I would discuss with
clients very often when I wasworking at a pregnancy clinic
I'd like to think that I can bedecisive and that I can make
tough decisions, but when Ireally get stressed out about
decisions is often when I don'tfeel like I have all the
information, and so I think oneof the best ways that we can
(14:28):
respect women is to make surethey have accurate information
and that they're given the spaceto figure out what is going to
help them thrive, what will bebest for them and their families
, and that is not what happenswhen a woman from those who are
(14:50):
in favor of abortionconsistently in their studies,
I've seen that the majority ofwomen who have an abortion have
stated that they were coerced orpressured into that decision,
and so to me, that's theopposite of empowerment, and I
think that's part of why, likethe original feminists, in my
opinion the first wave ones whofought for the right to vote
(15:11):
were consistently pro-life.
We see that with people likeAlice Paul and Elizabeth Cady
Stanton.
They believed that part ofwomen's empowerment was the
ability to choose what's bestfor them and their families, and
choosing life and beingsupported and being empowered.
I don't respect a person bytelling them you're weak, you
can't do this.
(15:31):
I support and empower them bysaying you are strong, you can
do hard things and we're goingto be with you every step of the
way.
And you see that even withgrants.
So, for example, I live inWisconsin and Wisconsin Right to
Life is a wonderfulorganization and I've
collaborated with them a numberof times over the years where
they will generously supportmoms who are either expecting or
(15:53):
recently had a kid.
It can be everything fromhelping with a month or two of
rent to I remember us getting anair conditioner into an
apartment and you don't realizehow weak you are until you try
to move a heavy air conditioner.
And so that's how we showrespect, that's how we empower
them, that's what a real choicelooks like.
And I've never yet met I'm surethey exist, but I've never yet
(16:15):
met a woman who said sheregretted continuing her
pregnancy.
I have met person after personof all different backgrounds who
have shared with me about someof the scars that they carry
from an abortion who have sharedwith me about some of the scars
that they carry from anabortion.
Christa Potratz (16:35):
Rachel, you've touched on, too, some of the
things that the pro-life sidedoes for women.
One of the things thatresonated with me, too, is when
you were saying how much moneyour pregnancy centers put out
every year for women and justkind of in contrast to when a
woman goes to an abortionfacility.
I mean she has to pay for that.
That's really different, rightthere.
I mean you know in many cases,but what other things do I mean
(16:59):
as particularly as Christians dowe do for women when they are
in these situations, when theyare in these situations?
Rachel Greiner (17:08):
I am beyond blessed that I get paid to do
pro-life work, but I think thereis a purity to those who do it
for free, for those who don'thave a vested interest, at least
financially.
When a woman enters a pregnancyclinic and she gets information
, these are people who are notgoing to benefit financially on
(17:28):
whether or not she chooses life.
They don't have services forwhich they charge and I think
that is a big piece.
Christa Potratz (17:37):
What support do we offer women when they choose
life?
Rachel Greiner (17:42):
So some people might think that when a woman
chooses life as pro-lifers,we're done, mission accomplished
, it's the end of the story, anda lot of times we would say
that that is just the beginningof the story, because it's one
thing to take some time, havesomeone genuinely listen to you,
which is very unusual thesedays.
(18:02):
I feel like for someone toreally be present and give you a
safe place to speak withoutpushing an agenda on you.
And after a woman makes thatdecision at a pregnancy clinic,
oftentimes it's when she getsback home that things get real.
It's when she starts picturingwhere am I going to put the baby
?
How are we going to pay forthis bill?
(18:23):
What doctor am I going to go to?
I haven't been to a doctor inyears and things like that.
And so that's where I see thebeauty of pro-lifers walking
with women, because they'restill there the next day.
It's not somethingtransactional where you just
visit these clinics and then youleave.
Very often, women and men willreturn to these pregnancy
(18:43):
clinics and maintain theserelationships for years and
years and years, and I've seenthat firsthand.
And so the support can take anumber of different forms.
Spiritual support is something,naturally, where Christian life
resources that we believe ispowerful, because we have all
sat in situations where, withour earthly eyes, we looked at
it and we thought there is noway this will be okay, there's
(19:04):
no way this works out.
There's no reason to have hope.
Based on what I'm observing,and again and again in my life,
and I'm sure in your lives aswell, that's when God shows that
he's supernatural and that hisways are so much higher than our
ways because he'll bring in asolution that is better than
anything I dreamed.
And so that spiritual componentis powerful.
(19:26):
Prayer is powerful.
I'm so thankful that atChristian Life Resources we have
a number of people who serve asprayer warriors, where they'll
regularly receive differenttopics to pray about, and there
is no doubt in my mind that Godis using that in powerful ways.
We know in James 5, it talksabout the prayers of a righteous
person.
So we know that's powerful.
There's the spiritual part,there's the emotional part.
(19:48):
This could be just giving awoman the chance to chit chat
with someone while her kids areplaying on the playground.
That can be huge.
Sometimes that's all you need.
Women are strong.
They can do tough things.
A lot of times they're justlooking for a little support,
just a little help, which istrue of everyone.
That's not unique to those withan unplanned pregnancy.
We all can, if we're honest.
(20:09):
To those with an unplannedpregnancy, we all can, if we're
honest, empathize and get wherethat comes from.
Materially, there's a range ofdifferent things, so it could be
everything again, from helpingwith furniture, which I've been
involved with, to helping withdiapers and wipes.
And again, sometimes peoplemight think, oh, it's just
diapers and wipes.
But if you've ever been aparent, you understand the
(20:31):
importance of diapers and wipes.
It could be clean clothes foryour kid.
It could be parenting classes,so practical education.
If you haven't been raised by avery involved, loving,
supportive parent, one of yourbiggest fears with an unplanned
pregnancy might be how do I dosomething I've never seen
(20:51):
modeled, and that's whereparenting classes and books and
resources and mentoring comeinto play.
The medical part everypregnancy center is a little bit
different, but some areincredibly comprehensive where
they help with things likeprenatal care.
Lactation experts can be on thegrounds.
It's unbelievable.
Some will have licensedcounselors serving, and so
(21:13):
there's that piece as well.
Bob Fleischmann (21:16):
And then also our home for mothers.
Yeah, my problem with still,you know, the original
accusation that we're notconcerned is that I mean I can't
think of anybody.
You know I've been, you knowwe've been running.
I mean I can't think of anybody.
Now, I've been.
You know we've been runningpregnancy care centers since the
late 70s and you know I havevisited all of them.
(21:37):
I have gotten to know peoplewho have, you know, worked in
the trenches, did incrediblesacrificial things to work there
to care for people.
I can't think of one of them,even on their worst day, who
seemed to have a dislike formothers or for women.
I mean they just you know wehave different rules.
You know that we use in ourcenters to try to protect women,
(22:00):
try to protect our people whoare working there.
You know, like you know, try toalways have somebody with you
when you meet with a clientcoming in.
Or, you know, don't be alone,Try to don't with you when you
meet with a client coming in,don't be alone, don't take them
out driving, Don't drive them inyour car, that kind of thing,
and I'm aware of the fact that alot of them still will find
(22:21):
some way to go out of their wayto help a mother, to help
somebody who's facing it.
There is, just there isn't even.
I can't think of an, I can'teven think of evidence outside
of the organization where thisstatement would be remotely true
that we don't care.
Christa Potratz (22:39):
So I guess then it does beg the question how do
we prove to the other sideessentially that we do care
about women?
How do we encourage people tosee that, that we do care about
women?
How do we encourage people tosee that we really do care about
women?
Rachel Greiner (22:54):
I relate most things in life to food and there
was a commercial years ago withthe cutest little girl ever and
it was a commercial for I thinkit was taco kits those ones for
when you make at home, so theyhave the taco seasoning and
things like that.
And there was these two groupswho were competing against each
(23:15):
other.
They had different ideas andone side was all about the soft
shell tacos and the other sidewas all about the hard shell
tacos and there was no agree andit shows this little girl
saying why don't we have both?
And they lift her up on theirshoulders and they celebrate her
and everyone's happy.
Everyone needs better tacos,which I mean.
Talk about world peace, that'sprobably how we do it, and I
(23:37):
feel like we can extend thatidea to this as well.
If you go, for example, to theMarch for Life, you will see
sign after sign, shirt aftershirt that says things like
pro-life is pro-woman or lovethem both.
And I think a lot of times thepeople who are doing the most
good in the world don't talkabout it.
They don't have time to betalking about it because instead
(24:00):
of talking, they're walking thewalk right.
They're making a difference,and especially culturally, in a
lot of our circles.
They're these very humble,servant hearted people and I
think that creates challengeswith this, because they're doing
amazing things but they don'ttell anybody, and so I think we
have to start kind of rattingout our friends.
(24:22):
I think we have to startpublicly talking about what our
friends are doing and startthese dialogues.
If you volunteer at a pregnancycenter, share about it.
If your friend just dropped offthe most beautiful handmade
blanket ever and you saw a momreceive it and she held on to it
like it was the most preciousthing she'd ever seen, we have
(24:42):
to talk about the friend that wehave that is allowing a
pregnant girl from her church tostay with them.
We have to talk about thesesorts of things.
So I think it can happen atdifferent levels.
I think it can happen on oursocial media.
There's lots of feel-goodstories out there.
Christian Life Resourcescreates great content, students
for Life of America, live Actionlots and lots of great content
out there.
That again is showing in reallife the impact.
(25:06):
I think we also need to sharethe stories of those who have
experienced unplannedpregnancies and felt support.
There's a quote I saw recently.
It was from a report calledHope for a New Generation.
I'm going to read it to you.
It was a woman out of Las Vegaswho had gotten support from
pro-lifers, and this is what shesaid.
She said I was ready to give upon my baby's life because I
(25:30):
wasn't emotionally orfinancially prepared.
I felt lonely and hopeless.
My personal advocate spokewords of hope and encouragement.
I then met with a counselor,and she helped me see that I had
other options and resourcesavailable.
After I spoke with them both, Ihad a renewed confidence to
keep my baby.
Every time I came in for aprenatal appointment or a class,
(25:53):
I felt so loved and supported,and that continued to give me
hope.
So if you are involved with apregnancy center, if you do hear
a great story, share it.
Don't be shy about it.
When we go to a greatrestaurant, hopefully, if we're
good friends, we're tellingeverybody we know oh, oh, oh,
you forget tacos.
If you find a fantastic tacotruck, I feel like you are
(26:13):
obligated to tell your friendsthat enjoy Mexican right, and so
we have to start being boldabout this.
And I think pastors have awonderful opportunity with this
too.
They're in a leadershipposition.
They are able to reach a large,hopefully group of people every
week, and so also sharing aboutthe way we can partner.
(26:33):
I'm so thankful forcongregations like Trinity Creek
and Trinity in Union Grove andCrown of Life Hubertus, who are
all helping us offer miscarriagesupport.
Unless people hear about it,they're not going to know.
We have the opportunity to tellthem something wonderful and
they can be a part of it.
They can experience that joy ofwalking with someone who goes
(26:55):
through a hard time, because weall go through hard times and I
like to think of it as we'reequals, and so we're all going
to go through different seasons.
There's going to be seasonswhere I'm going to be beyond
grateful that God has given meChristian friends to support me,
and there's going to be timesthat are rough for them and
hopefully they're not the sametime, and then I can give them a
little bit of encouragement,and so it's definitely a
(27:16):
lifestyle, and part of beingauthentic means sharing about
what's going on in our lives,and the beautiful thing is for a
lot of these pro-lifers, what'sgoing on in their life is they
are walking with people who feltalone and helpless and they're
learning that not only willthese friends be there, but
God's going to be with them.
Every moment At 2 am, when thebaby's crying, they have someone
(27:38):
right there who thinks thatthat woman is beyond precious,
that she was worth dying for,and I think that can be really
powerful.
Bob Fleischmann (27:48):
I think it's also valuable for the pro-life
community to practice a lot ofpatience, because when women
sometimes have wanted to have anabortion, saw the ultrasound,
got the counseling, it's a floodof emotion.
You had mentally kind of talkedyourself into the idea that I'm
(28:11):
going to go through with theabortion and so forth, and now
you've created a conflict and sothey're not always going to be
open to any kind of help thatyou want to offer, because
sometimes the help that theywere.
You know, I used to always tellpeople in my congregation who
would come to me for counselingI would say don't come to me for
counseling.
If I agree with you, then I'm agreat counselor, if I don't
(28:34):
agree with you, then I'm a dope.
They don't want that counseling.
And so sometimesabortive-minded women will come
in looking for somebody toendorse.
But that puts the onus on us aspro-life people to patiently
(28:56):
work with them and just say youknow I am willing to do all
sorts of sacrificing for you.
I'll drive you to some of yourappointments, I will make the
connections.
If you decide to place yourchild for adoption, you know I'm
going to go with you.
I will hold your hand throughit all.
I am not going to go with youif you wish to terminate the
(29:16):
child's life, but many of ourpeople who are working in our
centers will be there when theycome back, even when they've
made the decision to abort.
Why?
Because, quite honestly, wedeeply love women, we deeply are
concerned for them and we wantto show the kind of support and
compassion that we deeply lovewomen, we deeply are concerned
for them and we want to show thekind of support and compassion
that we know from Jesus.
(29:37):
There is no room in thepro-life community for
self-righteousness.
All of us are veryintrospective and we recognize
God's love for us and Jesus, andthat's what pushes us to be
concerned for them both, forboth the mother and the child.
Rachel Greiner (29:55):
So naturally, I think of people I've known when
I think about this.
So there is a family that I'mvery close to and her life was
not going well when she foundout she was pregnant.
I'm the honorary godmother forone of her kids.
That's happened at differenttimes and it's a huge blessing.
And after she made the adoptionplan, after she had the baby,
(30:20):
not surprisingly, she had somebaby blues.
She had a difficult time and itmeant a lot of phone calls and
it meant me sending her carepackages and things like that.
She knew that she had peoplethat were going to be there with
her through the whole processand even when she was making her
decision, she knew that ourlove for her wasn't conditional,
(30:40):
it wasn't based on her choicesand, like Bob mentioned, that's
because we are trying to emulateChrist, who doesn't say that
when I inevitably screw up, thathe's going to love me less or
not be there for me.
He's going to be there for meno matter what, because of who
he is.
And so, in the same way, we aregoing to support them and love
(31:01):
them because of who God saysthey are.
He says that they're valuable,and I think of some of my
friends who have an abortion intheir past, and they are amazing
, powerful women, and Satanwould love nothing more than to
use something like an abortionto break them.
And instead we get to be thereand we get to love them and we
(31:24):
get to support them and we getto point them to Jesus, who can
bring healing that nobody elsecan.
Bob Fleischmann (31:36):
And that's why the spiritual component is so
central in what we do, becausethere is no other technique out
there or conversational piecethat people have with others who
can tell you that, even whenyou make horribly wrong
decisions, that there'sforgiveness.
And there's always this notionthat and we experience that a
(31:58):
lot where, when people begin tolearn about the humanity of an
unborn child and heartbeats andbrainwaves and all of those
things, they just startconcluding I should not have had
that abortion, it was aterrible thing I did and I'm
going to live with it for therest of my life and so forth.
(32:18):
And Christian pro-life peopleare the ones who are uniquely
gifted to be able to tell themthat has been forgiven.
Jesus took it all on him andthere is no greater benefit as a
Christian pro-life person thanto announce that message.
And it don't take time for thatto sink in because we all like
(32:42):
to drag along the guilt.
But that's what makes our workespecially important and, again,
especially mother-centric andagain, especially mother-centric
.
Christa Potratz (32:52):
What are some practical ways that we can
encourage everybody to getinvolved and to show that we
really do care about women?
Rachel Greiner (33:02):
Everyone has a different bandwidth, everyone
has different gifts andinterests and so, as I mentioned
, some people, their sweet spotis prayer support.
For other people it's writingcards of encouragement, for some
people it's financial.
We know that none of thisministry can happen without
support.
Clothes cost things, keepingthe lights on costs money, and
(33:27):
so that's one piece for somepeople.
Being a mentor, I'm involvedwith a group called Embrace
Grace at my church and sosometimes it's sending
encouragement to the moms,sending them just a little text
to encourage them.
Who doesn't have time to send aquick text?
With our Home for Moms, we'realways looking for more women
(33:48):
and men to walk with these youngladies to encourage them, and
it can be things like a funpainting night.
On Thursday, some of us aregoing to get together, we're
going to make homemade pizzas,and again, that's a way for us
to put into action thesepro-life beliefs.
Christa Potratz (34:03):
Well, thank you so much.
We really appreciate it, and ifanyone listening to has any
questions, you can always reachout to us at lifechallengesus
and we look forward to havingall of our listeners back next
time.
Thanks a lot, bye.
Paul Snamiska (34:20):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
the Life Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
(34:40):
you to know we're here to help.
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(35:03):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
On today's episode.
Just giving a woman the chanceto chit-chat with someone while
her kids are playing on theplayground that can be huge.
Sometimes that's all you need.
Women are strong.
They can do tough things.
A lot of times they're justlooking for a little support,
just a little help, which istrue of everyone.
That's not unique to thosewithout unplanned pregnancy.
We all can, if we're honest,empathize and get where that
(00:24):
comes from.
Paul Snamiska (00:27):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (00:54):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz and I'm heretoday with Pastor Bob
Fleischman and we have a specialguest with us today, rachel
Greiner from Christian LifeResources, and we've had Rachel
on the podcast before and we'lldefinitely link that episode to
in our show notes for anybodywho hasn't heard Rachel.
(01:15):
It gives her a great backgroundstory and everything too, but
we really wanted to have Rachelon today to talk about this
topic.
It's basically the question ifwomen are being ignored by
pro-lifers.
This topic really is of highinterest to me personally.
(01:36):
When I started gettinginterested in the pro-life
movement, which was a few yearsbefore we started doing the
podcast here, I would go onlineand watch these videos and I
mean they're still up there toojust with interactions, like
with college students and youngpeople with pro-lifers, and so
(01:58):
many of the points always cameback to well, you pro-lifers
don't care at all about thewoman, you just care about the
baby, and that just seems to bereally embedded in the
pro-abortion side, thepro-choice side, and I think
(02:18):
it's just really great to talkabout, because you know it's
always good to see where theother side is coming from and
then being able to reflect onthat too.
And so, rachel, I think, willbe great with this conversation
too, in talking about this topic.
So we are told that pro-lifersonly care about the baby and not
(02:43):
about the woman.
Is this true?
Do pro-lifers really care aboutwomen?
Rachel Greiner (02:51):
I think throughout history we've noticed
that if something gets repeatedfrequently enough, that it
eventually just gets embraced bysociety, and I think this is a
really good example of that,where we've heard it so often
that a lot of people believe oh,it must be true, because I've
heard it so much.
The other day I was lookinginto something related to that.
(03:11):
There's this idea called theillusory truth effect and it's
the idea, again, that if yourepeat something often enough,
it's easier for you to believeit, regardless of if it's true.
And I was looking at it in thecontext of.
There was an MIT website thatwas talking about that idea that
we only use 10% of our brain,which I think is generous for
(03:32):
some of us.
But MIT actually said thatwasn't true.
They debunked it and part of itgoes to semantics, but the idea
that actually we use a lot moreof our brain every single day.
But I had always heard thatmyth and I bought it hook, line
and sinker and I think this is alittle bit something like that
and I think sometimes I'd liketo.
(03:55):
I hope that sometimes it'scoming from people who genuinely
do care about women and areconfused or concerned that
they're getting left behind.
I think some of the people donot have good intentions, but
I'm hoping that a small portionof those people at least are
just really, really uninformed.
And it's funny when I hearthings about you know, do
(04:16):
pro-lifers care about women?
Because a large percentage ofpro-lifers are women and we're
having conversations with womenand I always thought that was
interesting, especially if theysay do you really care about
women?
I would say we really careabout women, but talk is cheap.
We've all had people say thingsthat weren't true to us, or
(04:39):
we've maybe signed up for a cellphone and we think this deal
seems amazing and all it takesis a month or two to realize it
wasn't as good as it sounded.
And so it costs me nothing tosay I support women or I believe
in women.
That costs nothing, a fewseconds of my time.
So I think, instead of gettingcaught up with what people say,
(05:02):
it's great for us to look atwhat are the actions?
How do we back this up?
What are the numbers?
And the numbers are prettyconvincing to me.
We do some research based onthe services that pregnancy
centers offer, and there'sthousands of them across the
country, far more of them thanthere are, for example, abortion
clinics.
And we have figured out and Isay we, I mean Charlotte Lozier
(05:26):
and smarter people than me havefigured out that pregnancy
centers offer a value of wellover $300 million.
And again and again, thesepregnancy clinics are offering
them at zero cost, and so thatcan't be debated, and those are
services focused on the women.
We also know that when womenleave pregnancy centers and they
(05:50):
are surveyed about theirexperience, they consistently
will say to a tune of about 97%that they are very, very
satisfied with their experienceat a pregnancy center.
Because, again, I can say allkinds of things.
The proof is in the pudding.
What do the people say who arehaving these difficult,
unplanned pregnancies?
And so the beautiful thing is,with people like you, we get to
(06:16):
collaborate and we get to makesure that these women are
supported and that it isn't justlip service, that we are
walking with them step by step,no matter what they decide,
years and years after thepregnancy.
Bob Fleischmann (06:29):
Shortly after the Dobbs decision I was out on
the West Coast visiting one ofour churches and a couple wanted
to meet with the pastor and meand I was traveling with another
staff member and we met withthe couple and they were very
pro-life but they too had kindof almost bought into the idea
(06:50):
that the pro-life communitydoesn't show concern for the
women.
And they were just saying thatthey were disturbed over how
celebratory the pro-lifecommunity was about the Dobbs
decision, because now all ofthese women are going to suffer.
Community was about the Dobbsdecision because now all of
these women are going to suffer.
And it's exactly what Rachelwas saying is that you kind of
(07:14):
keep repeating a mantra.
Which is always the way thatpublic opinion is shifted is
that you introduce a mantra.
You keep like we see it at theend of life, you know death with
dignity, and then pretty soonpro-life people use the term and
so you introduce a mantra thatall they care about is the baby
and the mother suffersthroughout all this and it's
terrible and everything.
(07:34):
Well, you know, first of allthere's a practical element
Abortion is killing the baby.
Abortion isn't killing themother, it's killing the baby.
So of course we're concernedabout the most at-risk person,
but we've always demonstrated aconcern for both, because it
begins with the conversation,not with the baby, but with the
(07:55):
mother.
It begins with the conversationwith the mother, and all of our
support services in ourpregnancy care centers are all
structured to support the motherin what she's doing.
Because the baby is in the womb, we can't do anything more than
work with the mother.
Christa Potratz (08:13):
Yeah, and prepping for this too, I was
really trying to think a littlebit about, okay, you know, like
from our end, this is just notthe way we see it, right, like
we do see that we really careabout the mom, and so I was
thinking too like, well, okay,with the other side, you know,
we say like that they don't careat all about the baby, right,
(08:37):
and I mean.
But when you talk to likepro-choice people too, a lot of
them will say that they do lovechildren and they do care about
babies.
But because they care about thebaby, they feel like that the
child growing up in a world or asuffering environment, that
(08:58):
that is how they care about thebaby, that they should not get
that opportunity.
Now from us we would say, oh mygoodness, that's just terrible
to kill the baby like that.
They should not get thatopportunity.
Now from us, we would say, oh mygoodness, that's just terrible
to kill the baby.
You can't do that.
But I mean, it did just open upmy eyes to maybe see it
differently For us.
You know, we say that we careabout the mom because of all
(09:19):
these other things we do, butthey put us in a box because the
one thing that we don't do iswant to give her the choice to
make that decision.
Just really trying to thinkabout how we maybe also put the
other side in a box too, in someways.
Rachel Greiner (09:38):
Yeah, it's definitely easier to just make
assumptions about people than toactually engage with them and
do the hard work of listening,not to have a comeback or a drop
the mic moment, but tounderstand where they're coming
from and, in my experience, alot of times some of the more
passionate advocates forabortion.
(09:58):
There is some sort ofexperience that maybe a friend
had, or even it could be areally compelling TikTok story.
But I think often it is tied tosomething like that.
As soon as you can put a faceor attach a name to something,
it carries a different weight.
Which is part of why ultrasoundcan be so powerful is because
(10:19):
it's one thing to use euphemismsand words, but when you see
something, it becomes verydifferent.
And I think with what you'retalking about, I completely
agree, especially with the issueof poverty.
I think we've both seen orheard people say again and again
well, the truly compassionatething is to prevent this child
(10:41):
from suffering.
And so, instead of preventingthe suffering, we prevent the
child.
And so this idea of you knowthere's these women who are
facing real challenges, whetherit's relational or has to do
with poverty, and rather thanworking together across lines to
battle poverty, the solution,if you want to call it.
(11:01):
That is, to eliminate peoplewho would potentially live in
poverty.
And when we talk about puttingsomeone in a box, it's hard to
think of a more dramatic way toput someone in a box than to say
, before they're even born, thatwe know exactly how their life
is going to unfold and whetheror not we think it's good enough
to warrant them getting toremain alive.
Bob Fleischmann (11:23):
You know, a lot of times this gets into
polemics.
You know how the matter isdebated and I'm always struck by
the power of making anaccusation without ever
supporting it.
You know like, for example,they'll say well, you don't
really love women.
Well, you can say that, butbased on what?
What's the evidence?
(11:44):
What's the evidence?
What's the evidence thatpro-life people do not love
women?
Like Rachel pointed out, themajority of them that are in
high-profile positions are women.
So you're suggesting that theyhate themselves in the process
of having this love affair withthe child.
(12:06):
You know, I mean, sometimesit's just illogical, but there's
a lot to that argument that youkeep telling people, keep
telling people that and theybegin to swallow it hook, line
and sinker without everchallenging the presupposition
and I've learned anything asI've gotten older is that just
because somebody says somethingdoesn't mean I have to buy it.
So when they come to me andthey'll say, you know, well, you
(12:28):
guys don't care about mothers,my response now would be well,
give me an example.
Christa Potratz (12:35):
One of the things.
When they say, you know, wedon't like women or something, I
mean it is going back to like,well, we don't respect their
ability to choose, or that theycan make this choice.
One of the things, though, Imean, I always just think what
choice are we really giving tothe women to make?
(12:56):
The choice is to kill theirchild, because at the moment of
conception, too, we believe thatthat woman is a mother right,
and so I mean she already is amother, and so the choice is to
end the life of her child or toraise the child.
(13:17):
It's really not to be a motheror not, because she really is a
mother at that point.
And so the choice that we'regiving, I mean I just always
think, too, there's such amental component with it too,
and sometimes and I know, rachel, you can probably speak to this
too but that people maybe don'teven understand the choice they
(13:38):
made until years down the roadand what that choice really
meant to people.
Rachel Greiner (13:46):
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
If we are showing respect tosomeone, I think two of the ways
we do that is making sure thatthey have time to process the
information and to do somepersonal soul-searching and
figure out what do they want,wearing the pros and the cons,
and then also making sure theyhave accurate information.
(14:08):
I'd like to think and this issomething I would discuss with
clients very often when I wasworking at a pregnancy clinic
I'd like to think that I can bedecisive and that I can make
tough decisions, but when Ireally get stressed out about
decisions is often when I don'tfeel like I have all the
information, and so I think oneof the best ways that we can
(14:28):
respect women is to make surethey have accurate information
and that they're given the spaceto figure out what is going to
help them thrive, what will bebest for them and their families
, and that is not what happenswhen a woman from those who are
(14:50):
in favor of abortionconsistently in their studies,
I've seen that the majority ofwomen who have an abortion have
stated that they were coerced orpressured into that decision,
and so to me, that's theopposite of empowerment, and I
think that's part of why, likethe original feminists, in my
opinion the first wave ones whofought for the right to vote
(15:11):
were consistently pro-life.
We see that with people likeAlice Paul and Elizabeth Cady
Stanton.
They believed that part ofwomen's empowerment was the
ability to choose what's bestfor them and their families, and
choosing life and beingsupported and being empowered.
I don't respect a person bytelling them you're weak, you
can't do this.
(15:31):
I support and empower them bysaying you are strong, you can
do hard things and we're goingto be with you every step of the
way.
And you see that even withgrants.
So, for example, I live inWisconsin and Wisconsin Right to
Life is a wonderfulorganization and I've
collaborated with them a numberof times over the years where
they will generously supportmoms who are either expecting or
(15:53):
recently had a kid.
It can be everything fromhelping with a month or two of
rent to I remember us getting anair conditioner into an
apartment and you don't realizehow weak you are until you try
to move a heavy air conditioner.
And so that's how we showrespect, that's how we empower
them, that's what a real choicelooks like.
And I've never yet met I'm surethey exist, but I've never yet
(16:15):
met a woman who said sheregretted continuing her
pregnancy.
I have met person after personof all different backgrounds who
have shared with me about someof the scars that they carry
from an abortion who have sharedwith me about some of the scars
that they carry from anabortion.
Christa Potratz (16:35):
Rachel, you've touched on, too, some of the
things that the pro-life sidedoes for women.
One of the things thatresonated with me, too, is when
you were saying how much moneyour pregnancy centers put out
every year for women and justkind of in contrast to when a
woman goes to an abortionfacility.
I mean she has to pay for that.
That's really different, rightthere.
I mean you know in many cases,but what other things do I mean
(16:59):
as particularly as Christians dowe do for women when they are
in these situations, when theyare in these situations?
Rachel Greiner (17:08):
I am beyond blessed that I get paid to do
pro-life work, but I think thereis a purity to those who do it
for free, for those who don'thave a vested interest, at least
financially.
When a woman enters a pregnancyclinic and she gets information
, these are people who are notgoing to benefit financially on
(17:28):
whether or not she chooses life.
They don't have services forwhich they charge and I think
that is a big piece.
Christa Potratz (17:37):
What support do we offer women when they choose
life?
Rachel Greiner (17:42):
So some people might think that when a woman
chooses life as pro-lifers,we're done, mission accomplished
, it's the end of the story, anda lot of times we would say
that that is just the beginningof the story, because it's one
thing to take some time, havesomeone genuinely listen to you,
which is very unusual thesedays.
(18:02):
I feel like for someone toreally be present and give you a
safe place to speak withoutpushing an agenda on you.
And after a woman makes thatdecision at a pregnancy clinic,
oftentimes it's when she getsback home that things get real.
It's when she starts picturingwhere am I going to put the baby
?
How are we going to pay forthis bill?
(18:23):
What doctor am I going to go to?
I haven't been to a doctor inyears and things like that.
And so that's where I see thebeauty of pro-lifers walking
with women, because they'restill there the next day.
It's not somethingtransactional where you just
visit these clinics and then youleave.
Very often, women and men willreturn to these pregnancy
(18:43):
clinics and maintain theserelationships for years and
years and years, and I've seenthat firsthand.
And so the support can take anumber of different forms.
Spiritual support is something,naturally, where Christian life
resources that we believe ispowerful, because we have all
sat in situations where, withour earthly eyes, we looked at
it and we thought there is noway this will be okay, there's
(19:04):
no way this works out.
There's no reason to have hope.
Based on what I'm observing,and again and again in my life,
and I'm sure in your lives aswell, that's when God shows that
he's supernatural and that hisways are so much higher than our
ways because he'll bring in asolution that is better than
anything I dreamed.
And so that spiritual componentis powerful.
(19:26):
Prayer is powerful.
I'm so thankful that atChristian Life Resources we have
a number of people who serve asprayer warriors, where they'll
regularly receive differenttopics to pray about, and there
is no doubt in my mind that Godis using that in powerful ways.
We know in James 5, it talksabout the prayers of a righteous
person.
So we know that's powerful.
There's the spiritual part,there's the emotional part.
(19:48):
This could be just giving awoman the chance to chit chat
with someone while her kids areplaying on the playground.
That can be huge.
Sometimes that's all you need.
Women are strong.
They can do tough things.
A lot of times they're justlooking for a little support,
just a little help, which istrue of everyone.
That's not unique to those withan unplanned pregnancy.
We all can, if we're honest.
(20:09):
To those with an unplannedpregnancy, we all can, if we're
honest, empathize and get wherethat comes from.
Materially, there's a range ofdifferent things, so it could be
everything again, from helpingwith furniture, which I've been
involved with, to helping withdiapers and wipes.
And again, sometimes peoplemight think, oh, it's just
diapers and wipes.
But if you've ever been aparent, you understand the
(20:31):
importance of diapers and wipes.
It could be clean clothes foryour kid.
It could be parenting classes,so practical education.
If you haven't been raised by avery involved, loving,
supportive parent, one of yourbiggest fears with an unplanned
pregnancy might be how do I dosomething I've never seen
(20:51):
modeled, and that's whereparenting classes and books and
resources and mentoring comeinto play.
The medical part everypregnancy center is a little bit
different, but some areincredibly comprehensive where
they help with things likeprenatal care.
Lactation experts can be on thegrounds.
It's unbelievable.
Some will have licensedcounselors serving, and so
(21:13):
there's that piece as well.
Bob Fleischmann (21:16):
And then also our home for mothers.
Yeah, my problem with still,you know, the original
accusation that we're notconcerned is that I mean I can't
think of anybody.
You know I've been, you knowwe've been running.
I mean I can't think of anybody.
Now, I've been.
You know we've been runningpregnancy care centers since the
late 70s and you know I havevisited all of them.
(21:37):
I have gotten to know peoplewho have, you know, worked in
the trenches, did incrediblesacrificial things to work there
to care for people.
I can't think of one of them,even on their worst day, who
seemed to have a dislike formothers or for women.
I mean they just you know wehave different rules.
You know that we use in ourcenters to try to protect women,
(22:00):
try to protect our people whoare working there.
You know, like you know, try toalways have somebody with you
when you meet with a clientcoming in.
Or, you know, don't be alone,Try to don't with you when you
meet with a client coming in,don't be alone, don't take them
out driving, Don't drive them inyour car, that kind of thing,
and I'm aware of the fact that alot of them still will find
(22:21):
some way to go out of their wayto help a mother, to help
somebody who's facing it.
There is, just there isn't even.
I can't think of an, I can'teven think of evidence outside
of the organization where thisstatement would be remotely true
that we don't care.
Christa Potratz (22:39):
So I guess then it does beg the question how do
we prove to the other sideessentially that we do care
about women?
How do we encourage people tosee that, that we do care about
women?
How do we encourage people tosee that we really do care about
women?
Rachel Greiner (22:54):
I relate most things in life to food and there
was a commercial years ago withthe cutest little girl ever and
it was a commercial for I thinkit was taco kits those ones for
when you make at home, so theyhave the taco seasoning and
things like that.
And there was these two groupswho were competing against each
(23:15):
other.
They had different ideas andone side was all about the soft
shell tacos and the other sidewas all about the hard shell
tacos and there was no agree andit shows this little girl
saying why don't we have both?
And they lift her up on theirshoulders and they celebrate her
and everyone's happy.
Everyone needs better tacos,which I mean.
Talk about world peace, that'sprobably how we do it, and I
(23:37):
feel like we can extend thatidea to this as well.
If you go, for example, to theMarch for Life, you will see
sign after sign, shirt aftershirt that says things like
pro-life is pro-woman or lovethem both.
And I think a lot of times thepeople who are doing the most
good in the world don't talkabout it.
They don't have time to betalking about it because instead
(24:00):
of talking, they're walking thewalk right.
They're making a difference,and especially culturally, in a
lot of our circles.
They're these very humble,servant hearted people and I
think that creates challengeswith this, because they're doing
amazing things but they don'ttell anybody, and so I think we
have to start kind of rattingout our friends.
(24:22):
I think we have to startpublicly talking about what our
friends are doing and startthese dialogues.
If you volunteer at a pregnancycenter, share about it.
If your friend just dropped offthe most beautiful handmade
blanket ever and you saw a momreceive it and she held on to it
like it was the most preciousthing she'd ever seen, we have
(24:42):
to talk about the friend that wehave that is allowing a
pregnant girl from her church tostay with them.
We have to talk about thesesorts of things.
So I think it can happen atdifferent levels.
I think it can happen on oursocial media.
There's lots of feel-goodstories out there.
Christian Life Resourcescreates great content, students
for Life of America, live Actionlots and lots of great content
out there.
That again is showing in reallife the impact.
(25:06):
I think we also need to sharethe stories of those who have
experienced unplannedpregnancies and felt support.
There's a quote I saw recently.
It was from a report calledHope for a New Generation.
I'm going to read it to you.
It was a woman out of Las Vegaswho had gotten support from
pro-lifers, and this is what shesaid.
She said I was ready to give upon my baby's life because I
(25:30):
wasn't emotionally orfinancially prepared.
I felt lonely and hopeless.
My personal advocate spokewords of hope and encouragement.
I then met with a counselor,and she helped me see that I had
other options and resourcesavailable.
After I spoke with them both, Ihad a renewed confidence to
keep my baby.
Every time I came in for aprenatal appointment or a class,
(25:53):
I felt so loved and supported,and that continued to give me
hope.
So if you are involved with apregnancy center, if you do hear
a great story, share it.
Don't be shy about it.
When we go to a greatrestaurant, hopefully, if we're
good friends, we're tellingeverybody we know oh, oh, oh,
you forget tacos.
If you find a fantastic tacotruck, I feel like you are
(26:13):
obligated to tell your friendsthat enjoy Mexican right, and so
we have to start being boldabout this.
And I think pastors have awonderful opportunity with this
too.
They're in a leadershipposition.
They are able to reach a large,hopefully group of people every
week, and so also sharing aboutthe way we can partner.
(26:33):
I'm so thankful forcongregations like Trinity Creek
and Trinity in Union Grove andCrown of Life Hubertus, who are
all helping us offer miscarriagesupport.
Unless people hear about it,they're not going to know.
We have the opportunity to tellthem something wonderful and
they can be a part of it.
They can experience that joy ofwalking with someone who goes
(26:55):
through a hard time, because weall go through hard times and I
like to think of it as we'reequals, and so we're all going
to go through different seasons.
There's going to be seasonswhere I'm going to be beyond
grateful that God has given meChristian friends to support me,
and there's going to be timesthat are rough for them and
hopefully they're not the sametime, and then I can give them a
little bit of encouragement,and so it's definitely a
(27:16):
lifestyle, and part of beingauthentic means sharing about
what's going on in our lives,and the beautiful thing is for a
lot of these pro-lifers, what'sgoing on in their life is they
are walking with people who feltalone and helpless and they're
learning that not only willthese friends be there, but
God's going to be with them.
Every moment At 2 am, when thebaby's crying, they have someone
(27:38):
right there who thinks thatthat woman is beyond precious,
that she was worth dying for,and I think that can be really
powerful.
Bob Fleischmann (27:48):
I think it's also valuable for the pro-life
community to practice a lot ofpatience, because when women
sometimes have wanted to have anabortion, saw the ultrasound,
got the counseling, it's a floodof emotion.
You had mentally kind of talkedyourself into the idea that I'm
(28:11):
going to go through with theabortion and so forth, and now
you've created a conflict and sothey're not always going to be
open to any kind of help thatyou want to offer, because
sometimes the help that theywere.
You know, I used to always tellpeople in my congregation who
would come to me for counselingI would say don't come to me for
counseling.
If I agree with you, then I'm agreat counselor, if I don't
(28:34):
agree with you, then I'm a dope.
They don't want that counseling.
And so sometimesabortive-minded women will come
in looking for somebody toendorse.
But that puts the onus on us aspro-life people to patiently
(28:56):
work with them and just say youknow I am willing to do all
sorts of sacrificing for you.
I'll drive you to some of yourappointments, I will make the
connections.
If you decide to place yourchild for adoption, you know I'm
going to go with you.
I will hold your hand throughit all.
I am not going to go with youif you wish to terminate the
(29:16):
child's life, but many of ourpeople who are working in our
centers will be there when theycome back, even when they've
made the decision to abort.
Why?
Because, quite honestly, wedeeply love women, we deeply are
concerned for them and we wantto show the kind of support and
compassion that we deeply lovewomen, we deeply are concerned
for them and we want to show thekind of support and compassion
that we know from Jesus.
(29:37):
There is no room in thepro-life community for
self-righteousness.
All of us are veryintrospective and we recognize
God's love for us and Jesus, andthat's what pushes us to be
concerned for them both, forboth the mother and the child.
Rachel Greiner (29:55):
So naturally, I think of people I've known when
I think about this.
So there is a family that I'mvery close to and her life was
not going well when she foundout she was pregnant.
I'm the honorary godmother forone of her kids.
That's happened at differenttimes and it's a huge blessing.
And after she made the adoptionplan, after she had the baby,
(30:20):
not surprisingly, she had somebaby blues.
She had a difficult time and itmeant a lot of phone calls and
it meant me sending her carepackages and things like that.
She knew that she had peoplethat were going to be there with
her through the whole processand even when she was making her
decision, she knew that ourlove for her wasn't conditional,
(30:40):
it wasn't based on her choicesand, like Bob mentioned, that's
because we are trying to emulateChrist, who doesn't say that
when I inevitably screw up, thathe's going to love me less or
not be there for me.
He's going to be there for meno matter what, because of who
he is.
And so, in the same way, we aregoing to support them and love
(31:01):
them because of who God saysthey are.
He says that they're valuable,and I think of some of my
friends who have an abortion intheir past, and they are amazing
, powerful women, and Satanwould love nothing more than to
use something like an abortionto break them.
And instead we get to be thereand we get to love them and we
(31:24):
get to support them and we getto point them to Jesus, who can
bring healing that nobody elsecan.
Bob Fleischmann (31:36):
And that's why the spiritual component is so
central in what we do, becausethere is no other technique out
there or conversational piecethat people have with others who
can tell you that, even whenyou make horribly wrong
decisions, that there'sforgiveness.
And there's always this notionthat and we experience that a
(31:58):
lot where, when people begin tolearn about the humanity of an
unborn child and heartbeats andbrainwaves and all of those
things, they just startconcluding I should not have had
that abortion, it was aterrible thing I did and I'm
going to live with it for therest of my life and so forth.
(32:18):
And Christian pro-life peopleare the ones who are uniquely
gifted to be able to tell themthat has been forgiven.
Jesus took it all on him andthere is no greater benefit as a
Christian pro-life person thanto announce that message.
And it don't take time for thatto sink in because we all like
(32:42):
to drag along the guilt.
But that's what makes our workespecially important and, again,
especially mother-centric andagain, especially mother-centric
.
Christa Potratz (32:52):
What are some practical ways that we can
encourage everybody to getinvolved and to show that we
really do care about women?
Rachel Greiner (33:02):
Everyone has a different bandwidth, everyone
has different gifts andinterests and so, as I mentioned
, some people, their sweet spotis prayer support.
For other people it's writingcards of encouragement, for some
people it's financial.
We know that none of thisministry can happen without
support.
Clothes cost things, keepingthe lights on costs money, and
(33:27):
so that's one piece for somepeople.
Being a mentor, I'm involvedwith a group called Embrace
Grace at my church and sosometimes it's sending
encouragement to the moms,sending them just a little text
to encourage them.
Who doesn't have time to send aquick text?
With our Home for Moms, we'realways looking for more women
(33:48):
and men to walk with these youngladies to encourage them, and
it can be things like a funpainting night.
On Thursday, some of us aregoing to get together, we're
going to make homemade pizzas,and again, that's a way for us
to put into action thesepro-life beliefs.
Christa Potratz (34:03):
Well, thank you so much.
We really appreciate it, and ifanyone listening to has any
questions, you can always reachout to us at lifechallengesus
and we look forward to havingall of our listeners back next
time.
Thanks a lot, bye.
Paul Snamiska (34:20):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
the Life Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
(34:40):
you to know we're here to help.
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(35:03):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
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