June 10, 2025 • 33 mins
Father's Day stirs complicated emotions for many of us. Whether you had an amazing dad or one who left deep wounds, this episode explores how our Heavenly Father's perfect example can transform both our understanding of fatherhood and our approach to healing.
We dive deep into how our experiences with earthly fathers shape our perception of God, for better or worse. Those blessed with loving fathers often find it easier to connect with God as Father, while those who experienced neglect, abuse, or absence might struggle with this fundamental relationship. Yet understanding God's perfect fatherhood—His consistency, unfailing love, appropriate discipline, and constant communication—provides a powerful corrective lens.
Fathers carry unique burdens of guilt when looking back at their parenting journey. "My two smartest times for parenting were before I had kids and after they moved out," one pastor notes with painful honesty. We explore how bringing parental failures to the cross offers freedom that self-improvement alone cannot provide.
Perhaps most powerful is our discussion of forgiveness. When we refuse to forgive fathers who've wronged us, we're not punishing them—we're allowing them to maintain power over our lives. Biblical forgiveness means releasing offenses completely, not keeping score or waiting for perfect apologies. This release mirrors God's complete forgiveness of our sins and creates space for genuine healing and transformation.
For those struggling with father wounds, we offer practical guidance through pastoral counseling or therapy, perspective on proportional responses to past hurts, and hope that people genuinely can change through faith. God's love doesn't guarantee warm feelings or perfect reciprocity—it's commitment without reward, giving the other cheek when struck, going the extra mile when exhausted.
Join us for this honest conversation about the fathers we had, the fathers we are, and the perfect Father who shows us the way forward. Share your experiences with us at lifechallenges.us—we're here to walk this journey together.
SHOW NOTES:
Find strength and courage in your faith at this year’s FEARLESS FAITH Conference. Inspired by Joshua 1:9, “Be strong and courageous,” join us Saturday, September 13, at Kettle Moraine Lutheran High School in Jackson, Wisconsin, for presentations on navigating life’s storms, understanding God’s peace, and engaging in crucial conversations about euthanasia, anorexia, abortion, prenatal genetic testing, and more. Hear powerful journeys of faith through loss and hope. Don’t miss this empowering event! $50 in person or $40 virtual. Register now: https://christianliferesources.com/resources/events/2025-conference/
Find strength and courage in your faith at this year’s FEARLESS FAITH Conference. Inspired by Joshua 1:9, “Be strong and courageous,” join us Saturday, September 13, at Kettle Moraine Lutheran High School in Jackson, Wisconsin, for presentations on navigating life’s storms, understanding God’s peace, and engaging in crucial conversations about euthanasia, anorexia, abortion, prenatal genetic testing, and more. Hear powerful journeys of faith through loss and hope. Don’t miss this empowering event! $50 in person or $40 virtual. Register now: https://christianliferesources.com/resources/events/2025-conference/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeff Samelson (00:18):
On today's episode.
You're allowing them to holdover you.
You're holding onto a grudgefor no good reason.
It does you no good and it doesthem no harm.
Instead, if you let that go andthat's interesting that one of
the biblical words forforgiveness has this sense, the
idea of just releasing something, of letting it go that's
(00:38):
something, then, that it's nolonger hanging on you.
It's something, then, that isno longer hanging on you, it's
no longer on your shoulders.
That is freeing when Godforgives us our sins.
For Jesus' sake, they're gone.
We don't have to carry thatweight any longer.
Paul Snamiska (00:55):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (01:22):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz and I'm heretoday with pastors Bob
Fleischman and Jeff Samuelson.
We're going to talk about anupcoming official holiday,
father's Day.
We wanted to have an episodewhere we talk about fathers, and
I don't know if anyone justmaybe has something generally to
say about Father's Day.
Bob Fleischmann (01:43):
I think my experience has been I
encountered the same thing withFather's Day that I ever
encountered with Father's Day.
I think my experience has beenI encountered the same thing
with Father's Day that I everencountered with Mother's Day.
And that is you craft, what Ithink is a wonderful sermon,
praising fatherhood, the rolethat fathers play, and then
doggone it if somebody doesn'tgreet you at the door and says,
well, you didn't know my father.
He was mean or harsh, and thesame thing with Mother's Day.
(02:04):
So a lot of times people tendto tune out if they feel their
father's harsh.
So we're going to try to talkabout that.
Christa Potratz (02:12):
Yeah, I think that's really a great segue into
the episode too, because, yes,I mean we definitely want to
talk about fathers and Christianfathers, but we also realize
that maybe not everybody hastheir father around, or not
everybody came from a home witha great father, and so there is
(02:33):
just a lot to talk and to unpackwith the topic.
Just a place to start, then, ishow does having a heavenly
father help us appreciate ourearthly fathers?
Jeff Samelson (02:46):
I mean, this is something I don't think most of
us as Christians think aboutmuch.
It's like, okay, yeah, there'sthe heavenly father, oh yeah,
and there's my father, orwhatever.
But you know, just the ideathat there is a God up there who
has a son and that son has afather, that that's something
that we are privileged also tohave.
God designed our families, ourexistence on earth so that we
(03:11):
also would have fathers, in thesame way that his son has a
father.
I mean, I'd say that's a prettybig deal that he's giving that
same thing to us.
On the other hand, hesacrificed his son, which we
don't have to do, but that's thething.
He did that so that we wouldnever have to do anything like
(03:31):
that, that we don't have tosuffer the consequences of our
sins.
And what a father that is, thatwould be willing to do that to
save us, so that we then couldbe brought back into his family.
That's just a really amazingkind of thing there.
Bob Fleischmann (03:49):
Well, plus, the Heavenly Father is the perfect
example.
And when we built our house, webuilt my mom and dad's house
next door and I remember lookingout the window of my office and
watching my father help mymother into the house.
She was having troublenavigating the steps I think she
just had some knee surgery orsomething and there was a
(04:12):
tenderness and everything and Iremember thinking what a great
modeling for me on just lovingmy own wife and so forth.
Well, in Scripture, thereferences we have of our
Heavenly Father whether you hada train wreck for a father or
not, it's a perfect example.
So, like when you get intothese references in Scripture
about our Father disciplines usor things like that we do have a
(04:35):
perfect model, even if ourmodel wasn't perfect and none of
our models were perfect, but Imean our worldly models but we
do have a perfect Heavenly modeland he describes himself as a
relationship of a father to us.
Christa Potratz (04:50):
So then, how does having a heavenly father
help Christian fathers be betterfathers?
Jeff Samelson (04:56):
Well, as Bob just said, we have the perfect
example, perfect model, in Godthe Father.
We don't ever have to wondergee, what does a good father
look like?
We've got that.
And one thing in particularthat I think we should value is
the constancy and consistency ofhis fathering, that he never
(05:19):
lets up.
He never says, oh you know, Idid that last week, I'm kind of
tired, I'm not going to do itthis week with his kids.
He never says, oh, you know, Idid that last week, I'm kind of
tired, I'm not going to do itthis week with his kids.
He never gets tired.
He's always loving.
He always does what is best forhis children.
He's not thinking selfishly.
This is always.
That's something that we asearthly fathers are going to
(05:42):
struggle with because we'resinful creatures, but it's
therefore something that we wantto strive to imitate in our own
fathering, whether we'redealing with infants, toddlers,
teenagers or adult children.
Just to think that God is justso constant, so consistent in
(06:04):
all of the good things of hisfathering, that's something for
us to look at and say, yeah, Ishould be more like that.
Christa Potratz (06:13):
Yeah, I think you know what really hits me
about God, the Father too, and Ithink a lot of like what Bob
mentioned as well, is that, youknow, like we think, okay,
father, like love is the mostimportant thing, and I mean we
definitely see that with God andHis loving of Jesus and all of
us.
But there is how Bob wasmentioning that perfect
(06:35):
discipline, and I also think too, I always love the
communication between Jesus andHis Father and how much he is
praying and you just have thatbeautiful communication and you
know, even just in the Garden ofGethsemane he wants this cup to
be taken from him and God saysno, and you know, he just, I
(06:58):
mean, and just how that allplays out is just really I don't
know.
It's just.
It's such a complete picture, Iguess, of fathering and we tend
to maybe just kind of takepieces in this earthly world,
but there's just such acompleteness in the way that we
see Godfather.
Bob Fleischmann (07:17):
And because of our evil inclination that we all
have, we're easily influencedinto almost a God-contrary
figure of fatherhood.
So, in other words, how many ofus, as kids, didn't think well,
if my parents would just trustme more, if my parents would
just let me do more, if myparents would let me be like
(07:38):
so-and-so's parent you know,have the freedom that they have,
and so we're always opting tocut those ties and so forth.
And I was thinking a little bitwhen Jeff was talking about that
consistency with God.
I don't know why it takes somany years to realize that it
really isn't a good thing to geteverything you want.
And that's kind of what Goddoes as he works all things for
(08:01):
your good.
You go through some prettypainful stuff in order to have
you be kept close to him.
And you don't see it.
You certainly rarely see it.
Maybe you rarely see it at themoment, but in hindsight it sure
looks a lot clearer.
Christa Potratz (08:17):
I think too, you know, when we have maybe a
great Christian father, it'sreally easy to make that
connection with God, the Fathertoo, from, I mean, my own
experience I mean I came from ahome where I had a very loving
father just that whole conceptof, oh I don't know, just being
like the salt and light of theearth and reflecting God.
(08:40):
I saw that through my dad too,and that was just really really
wonderful and beautiful.
But there are people that growup that don't have that.
So how can maybe having a badfather or father that you know
just isn't around or doesn'tshow that type of love, or maybe
(09:01):
even no father at all, someonewho wasn't present, be a
challenge to the Christian faith?
Jeff Samelson (09:09):
Well, I mean, as we mentioned, the best way to
see things is to look to theFather in heaven as the
definition and the ideal offatherhood, and then you compare
your experience with yourearthly father to that.
But the way it normally andnaturally works for most people
is that human beings, especiallywhen they're kids, they take
(09:32):
the only kind of fatherhood thatthey have experience with and
then they use that as thestandard by which they judge all
other kinds of fatherhood.
And that means that far toooften, if you had a bad kind of
experience with your father yourearthly father or no father at
(09:52):
all then that gets transferredover to your ideas of God the
Father, or that can easilyhappen, and that means that you
end up with either an incorrector an incomplete idea of God's
fatherhood, whereas for somebodywith, as you mentioned, krista,
with this good experience withyour own father, you think, oh,
(10:15):
wow, and my heavenly father islike that, only so much more and
better.
But if you've got this notcorrect, not good idea of
fatherhood, and you say, oh, soyou're saying the father in
heaven is a taskmaster, you knowsomebody who just never
forgives somebody who's unl toaffect their ability to trust
(10:36):
God, to see him as a comfort ora strength for them.
That's not good, you know.
We can teach against that, butthat's the kind of thing that
goes deep into a person's psyche.
(10:56):
At the very least, it's helpfulto be aware that that's going
on, but many people aren't.
Bob Fleischmann (11:02):
Well, I can't overstate the value of modeling
and how that influences us.
And when you have a parent thatis not a good parent biblically
speaking or even by thestandards of society, a parent
that molests, a parent thatharms, a parent, that is cruel
and so forth, seeing that,having that modeled for you all
(11:25):
the time, if you do not exposeyourself to truth and to proper
modeling, that becomes theprominent figure in your head.
And it's unfortunate becauseover the years of my ministry
I've encountered people who havecomplained that I know that we
(11:45):
should be celebrating fathers,but I have this and I can't get
it out of my head.
I know that God's a perfectmodel, but I still can't get it
out of my head.
Now I don't know.
I wanted to ask both of you doyou find in parenting especially
for those of us who, ourchildren, are grown up and moved
out that if it weren't for thefact that I think I have less
(12:07):
patience now than I did when Iwas younger which wasn't a lot
even when I was younger but youkind of wish you knew what you
do know now, oh yeah, back thenyou know, it's like all the
times when I said things that Inow wish I hadn't in raising the
kids and stuff like that.
That hindsight, and part of itis that I feel, and there were
(12:29):
many times I was a bad father, Ididn't model the ideal father
in heaven, and as I look backI'm going doggone it.
It's so clear now If I could doit.
You know, I always said my twosmartest times for parenting
were before I had kids and afterthey moved out.
You know, I was much smarterbefore I had children.
I had all the answers untilyour kids prove you all wrong,
(12:52):
you know.
And then, once they're movedout, you're going oh yeah, now I
should have done this and Ishould have done that.
But part of it is that we haveto remember that there are
better homes and worse homes.
There just are, and I've hadcongregations full of them.
So some people have had theseidyllic parents.
I was fortunate I had idyllicparents.
(13:13):
I think part of the admirationthat I developed for my parents
was rooted in the fact that theydid not have idyllic parents.
They had grandparents mygrandparents that were
problematic, harsh, thoughtless,that kind of thing.
And yet out of that comes thesetwo who were wonderful parents
for us.
(13:33):
But even in my wonderfulupbringing.
They would have been the firstto admit it wasn't ideal.
There are levels of goodnessand levels of badness, but no
one's immune.
Sin affects all families andyou navigate it and you keep
going back to the perfectstandard.
I wish I was when the childrenwere young.
I wish I was the student ofScripture then that I am now.
(13:57):
I think that's where insightcomes.
Christa Potratz (14:00):
There's a point when you grow up too, where you
realize, oh yeah, my parentsweren't perfect, or you kind of
see maybe the cracks more and Imean that's just human nature
and seeing that too, there canbe from a fatherhood perspective
(14:31):
and I mean even a mother toothat guilt that you find.
And so it's like that.
What kind of guilt do earthlyfathers have to deal with?
So that guilt that earthlyfathers have to deal with, and
how they should cope with thatguilt if they didn't do
everything perfectly.
Jeff Samelson (14:52):
Yeah, I mean Bob introduced some of those second
thoughts and such in thehindsight.
But I mean there is just somuch that, as fathers, if we
stop and think and not everyfather does but if we stop to
think so much that we failed todo that we should have done.
So much that we've done wrong,so much that we've forgotten to
do, so many times we said thewrong thing or failed to say the
(15:14):
right thing.
So many opportunities that welost for connecting with our
kids, for teaching themimportant lessons.
So much time we could have justspent playing with them or
being with them or talking withthem.
I could go on for hours, and Ithink most thoughtful fathers
would be able to do that as well, and most of the time we'd
rather not think about all thatthere is to feel guilt about.
(15:37):
But when we do, I think it'skind of hardwired a bit perhaps
even more into fathers than intomothers that instead of feeling
the guilt, we decide, okay,well then there's something I've
got to do about it.
And that unfortunately workswell into a whole kind of work
righteousness thing of well, ifI have sinned, the thing I need
(15:58):
to do is to work to undo thatsin and well, certainly yes, if
I've made a mistake as a parent,if there's something I can do
to undo that mistake, I shoulddo that.
But what we should do with allof that guilt is take it to the
cross.
I mean, that's father sin isjust like any other kind of sin.
(16:20):
It's not in some specialcategory that says, oh, all
those others Jesus died for, butthese you've got to work off.
No, it's not like that.
These are sins just like anyothers.
And you go to the cross and yousay, father, forgive me for
Jesus' sake, for the sake ofyour son, and you trust that
that is forgiven.
And then, in the power offorgiveness and the freedom of
(16:42):
forgiveness, you move on to dobetter.
Bob Fleischmann (16:46):
Becoming grandparents is kind of a
revelation in and of itself, andI think that's oftentimes why
kind of the joke is about howBill Cosby had a routine where
he used to talk about how hismother would come and give dimes
and quarters to the grandkidsand stuff and Cosby used to say
that is not my mother, that'sjust a lady, an old lady,
(17:09):
impersonating my mother.
My mother wasn't that nice oranything.
To some degree, I look at theway my kids parent their
children and my first thought isthey didn't learn that from me.
They're so much better at itand yet when you sit down and
talk with them, they still tellthe same war stories.
You know, one of the thingsthat can happen when you become
(17:32):
a greater student of Scriptureyou begin to hold on to guilt a
little bit.
You're looking at all thethings that I should have said
and I should have done.
I was thinking I think it wasDavid Cassidy from the Partridge
family.
His last words when he died wasso much wasted time and I was
thinking of that when you weretalking about you know, I should
have spent more time with himand everything you know.
(17:54):
You start reading God's wordand you start.
You know you feel prettyconvicted and you know, in the
work that we do in our pregnancycare centers and at our Home
for Mothers, we encounter thistoo, where people will talk
about relationships that theyhad and they said I just I can
forgive them, but I can'tforgive myself.
And, like Jeff said, you haveto leave it at the cross.
(18:18):
I mean somebody died for youbecause of that.
What do you mean?
You can't forgive yourself, youmean it just wasn't good enough
.
Well, you have to get to thepoint of just moving on.
Now the problem is thatsometimes maybe your children
aren't ready to move on.
You'll say you're sorry to thekids.
I remember once saying to oneof my daughters wow, you know,
(18:41):
so-and-so can really be kind ofshort and kind of— and they said
well, where do you think theylearned it from, dad?
Paul Snamiska (18:48):
You know it, it can really be kind of short, and
they said well, where do youthink they learned it?
Bob Fleischmann (18:49):
from Dad?
It's like whoa okay.
But the thing is thatforgiveness actually begins at
the cross.
It doesn't begin with you beingenlightened, it actually begins
at the cross.
As that message of the crossseeps into you, it gives you the
tools to forgive others, but italso gives you the tools to
forgive yourself and to move on.
Christa Potratz (19:11):
And that is a really important point too about
forgiveness.
And if you are a child goingthrough that and maybe you
didn't have a great father andmaybe there are things where you
need to forgive, sometimes thatcan maybe seem like a huge
mountain to overcome, and so howcan a child really go about
(19:36):
forgiving a father who wasn'tthere or who had some maybe very
big shortcomings?
Jeff Samelson (19:46):
One of the things that even the secular world
gets this, although I think to acertain extent they get it from
Christianity.
But if you refuse to forgivesomeone for what they have done
whether it's your father oranyone else, an erring spouse or
a bad boss or whatever it isthat's not something that you're
holding over that person.
(20:08):
That's something you'reallowing them to hold over you.
It's you're holding onto agrudge for no good reason.
It does you no good and it doesthem no harm.
Instead, if you let that go andthat's interesting, that one of
the biblical words forforgiveness has, as it's sensed,
the idea of just releasingsomething, of letting it go
(20:30):
that's something, then, thatit's no longer hanging on you,
it's no longer on your shouldersand you're able to let it go,
and that is freeing.
We learn that again from thewhole Christian thing of
forgiveness that when Godforgives us, our sins, for
Jesus' sake, they're gone, wedon't have to carry that weight
(20:51):
any longer, and he says goodbyeto them as well.
It's not something he justholds on to and says well, if
you mess up again, I'm going tobring this up.
No, no, that's not the way loveworks, and so children should
forgive their fathers for theirfailings.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat they forget what their
(21:11):
fathers have done.
Very often there are real worldconsequences to the ways that
fathers fail.
That has been done, maybe hewas never around and so the son
or daughter grew up in povertyor didn't have certain
opportunities.
Those are things that lastthroughout life.
(21:33):
You don't just pretend thosethings never happened, but you
can still forgive the man whodid that, just as in Christ, god
forgave us, and then we canmove on to try to overcome
whatever damage was done,whatever opportunities were lost
and so forth.
Bob Fleischmann (21:53):
We've often quoted the scriptural passage
Vengeance is mine, saith theLord.
So why is that such animportant passage to keep in
mind?
It's because oftentimes, whenwe hold grudges, we're trying to
do the best we can to extractvengeance.
If we can do it by harsh words,we'll do it by harsh words If
(22:17):
we could do it by cutting themoff from something they want
like.
But you will never see yourgrandchildren.
You get all of these kinds ofefforts where we're trying to
extract some form of levelingthe field for having deeply hurt
us when we were young.
And the way that you get by it,quite honestly, is, first of
(22:38):
all, introspection.
God has to put up with an awfullot in each of us, even the
best of us.
God says I'll still send my sonto die for you, even though
last week in church youconfessed your sins, you set out
not to sin anymore and youdidn't even get out the door and
you did it again.
So, in other words, start withintrospection.
(23:00):
But secondly, don't forget yourplace.
Vengeance is not up to you.
You can say the harsh words.
I don't know if you're lookingfor that hurt.
Look in their eyes to feel likeyou've leveled the playing
field, but none of that matters.
God says that's my domain,that's not your domain, and so
stay in your lane and then moveon.
(23:21):
You can't control how otherpeople act.
You can only control you, andso you have to work on getting
you over that hump.
Jeff Samelson (23:31):
Yeah, a similar kind of thing is when people say
, well, I'm not going to forgivehim until he says he's sorry.
Okay, I can understand thefeeling behind that.
You want that other person toacknowledge what they have done.
But two problems with that.
One is okay, what exactly isgoing to be a sufficient
demonstration of remorse If youjust say okay, I'm sorry, okay,
(23:56):
you're?
Paul Snamiska (23:56):
saying that's not good enough.
Jeff Samelson (23:57):
So okay then, what is going to be good enough
and it's a moving target whenyou're never going to do that.
But the more fundamentalproblem with that is that you've
.
Okay, then what is going to begood enough and it's a moving
target when you're never goingto do that.
But the more fundamentalproblem with that is that you've
again just turned over all thepower to the other person and
you may wait forever for thatperson to say I'm sorry, and
they may never do it, in whichcase you've lost out on all the
(24:19):
benefit you get from letting goof that offense and forgiving
with that.
And I just wanted to add oneother thing that if you are
indeed someone who has sufferedfrom a bad father or an absent
father or something like that,and you've got we'll just say
issues as a result of that, talkto somebody, don't just let
(24:41):
that fester within yourself.
Talk to your pastor about it,get counseling about it,
sometimes even just gettingsomebody else's unbiased opinion
about you.
Know, my dad was like that Wasthat as bad as I think it was?
Or my dad did this thing andI've just never really been able
to let go of it.
Maybe somebody else'sperspective?
I remember there was somethingthat one of my seminary
professors said to me once aboutsomething and it's just like,
(25:04):
yeah, I guess I'd never reallylooked at it that way before and
it really helped me towardshealing and forgiveness in that
sense, and make sure that thething that you're holding
against your father is actuallya real sin actual or is actually
that big a sin.
I saw something online lastweek or so about there is an
(25:28):
increasing number, a scarilyincreasing number, of young
adults who have basically justwritten their one or both
parents out of their lives andthe reasons they give for this
(25:52):
are like are you kidding me?
It's not like my dad molested meand never owned up to yes.
Well, as Christians will say,that's not a biblical attitude,
but it's not healthy in any wayeither, and so yeah.
Christa Potratz (26:04):
Sometimes it does just come down to
perspective because, oh, theydidn't believe in me, they
didn't respect me, they didn't,and that's all really sad too.
And I think sometimes, you know, we sit there and think like,
okay, this person doesn'tdeserve my forgiveness or they
don't deserve my love.
(26:25):
And that is really where, again, we can go back to God and we
can see that none of us deservewhat our Heavenly Father has
given us.
And so when you make thatcomparison, then you just
realize like that whole, oh,they don't deserve this.
(26:45):
I mean, we really don't deserveany of God's love.
Bob Fleischmann (26:50):
Oftentimes we've modeled our notions of
love and forgiveness fromtelevision and movies, where it
gets tied up in a nice littlebow at the end or it's
unresolved, and all these kindsof things.
Think about the biblicalexamples, you know like when it
talks about love.
Because of the increase ofwickedness, the love of most
(27:11):
will go cold.
Well, are you getting chilly?
Why?
Because the world wants toattach affection and rosiness
and everything to love andreciprocal nature to love.
The biblical definition of loveis willing to get struck on one
side of the cheek and then givethem the other side, or walking
the extra mile, and so forth.
(27:32):
In other words, love is—thebiblical concept of love is
devotion, even without reward.
I still think of Jeff's commentabout well, they didn't even say
they're sorry.
Well, and you know when you'rethinking that way, the moment
they do apologize, it's notgoing to be good enough.
Now, they don't mean it, youknow, and that kind of stuff.
And yet you find in our perfectexample of our Heavenly Father
(27:58):
someone who puts up with anincredible amount from us.
And we might argue and say,well, but my father molested me,
my father abused me, my fatherwas harsh with me.
I mean some genuinely reallybad things.
But the point is is when we talkabout forgiveness and we talk
about love, it doesn't mean thatthere will always be the
(28:20):
consequences for it.
For some people, consequencesare jail time.
For some people, consequencesare just always leaving a memory
that doesn't seem to want tofade.
But besides that, ourcommitment of love is a willing
to be devoted, even if there'snot the reciprocal nature of
affection, our willingness toforgive if they don't want to
(28:42):
forgive back.
You don't go to the altar withhatred on your heart.
You know.
It's just.
The scriptural definition forlove and forgiveness is
dramatically different than whatyou learned from television and
movies.
Christa Potratz (28:55):
So just kind of pulling it all together now and
everything, any final thoughtsor just a message on really
God's design for fathers and therole that the father plays in
the family.
Jeff Samelson (29:10):
What we see from our heavenly father.
That model shows us that theidea or the model of a cold and
unforgiving father, that doesn'tfit what we're supposed to be
as fathers.
Neither does the model of apermissive and uncaring or
uninvolved father, becausethat's not what God the Father
is.
So God, the Father's perfectmodel, tells human fathers to be
(29:35):
loving and caring, but also totake sin seriously, as he did,
which means discipline andpunishment when appropriate, but
also shows a readiness toforgive and show mercy.
And this constant cycle of loveand forgiveness.
And all of this together, andthat's the model, that's the
(29:58):
design that God has given to usand has given to every family.
Bob Fleischmann (30:03):
And I had idyllic parents.
I mean, I just did.
My father died unexpectedlyfive weeks ago and it's still a
horrible pain, still a deep pain.
But when I look at thetrajectory of my parents, I
think they practiced goodparenting and my father good
fathering, from what the lateTim Keller would call common
(30:24):
grace.
In other words, they learnedfrom bad examples and God had
given them the wisdom topractice the antithesis of the
bad examples.
They were gentle but firm.
They were loving and caring.
But then what was interestingand this is my advice to people
who felt that they did not havesuch idyllic parents and that is
(30:46):
, allow time for faith to work,Because my parents, as they got
older, became students ofScripture and even though my
father was loving and caring,even before he was a student of
Scripture, he became better, hefound an anchor.
The problem, what I've noticedwith a lot of families, when
(31:09):
they have some deep wounds fromthe past, is they don't allow
room for somebody to change.
Why?
Because they don't want to riskbeing hurt again.
But people do change and to saythat they don't is maybe
because you're refusing thechange.
Recognize that exposure to theWord of God, exposure to the
(31:29):
perfect example of a HeavenlyFather does create change and
you begin to see it in differentthings that they do and say.
Christa Potratz (31:37):
Well, thank you both for talking to us about
Father's Day, and we thank allof our listeners too, and we
wish everyone a happy Father'sDay and just love this episode
and the reminder, too, that wehave a Heavenly Father that
loves us very much as well, andso if you have any questions on
(32:00):
this episode, please reach outto us at lifechallengesus, and
we look forward to having youback next time.
Paul Snamiska (32:07):
Bye us a review wherever you access it and
sharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
(32:29):
you to know we're here to help.
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
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In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at LifeChallengesus,so be sure to check it out For
(32:53):
more about our parentorganization.
Please visitChristianLifeResourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
On today's episode.
You're allowing them to holdover you.
You're holding onto a grudgefor no good reason.
It does you no good and it doesthem no harm.
Instead, if you let that go andthat's interesting that one of
the biblical words forforgiveness has this sense, the
idea of just releasing something, of letting it go that's
(00:38):
something, then, that it's nolonger hanging on you.
It's something, then, that isno longer hanging on you, it's
no longer on your shoulders.
That is freeing when Godforgives us our sins.
For Jesus' sake, they're gone.
We don't have to carry thatweight any longer.
Paul Snamiska (00:55):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (01:22):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz and I'm heretoday with pastors Bob
Fleischman and Jeff Samuelson.
We're going to talk about anupcoming official holiday,
father's Day.
We wanted to have an episodewhere we talk about fathers, and
I don't know if anyone justmaybe has something generally to
say about Father's Day.
Bob Fleischmann (01:43):
I think my experience has been I
encountered the same thing withFather's Day that I ever
encountered with Father's Day.
I think my experience has beenI encountered the same thing
with Father's Day that I everencountered with Mother's Day.
And that is you craft, what Ithink is a wonderful sermon,
praising fatherhood, the rolethat fathers play, and then
doggone it if somebody doesn'tgreet you at the door and says,
well, you didn't know my father.
He was mean or harsh, and thesame thing with Mother's Day.
(02:04):
So a lot of times people tendto tune out if they feel their
father's harsh.
So we're going to try to talkabout that.
Christa Potratz (02:12):
Yeah, I think that's really a great segue into
the episode too, because, yes,I mean we definitely want to
talk about fathers and Christianfathers, but we also realize
that maybe not everybody hastheir father around, or not
everybody came from a home witha great father, and so there is
(02:33):
just a lot to talk and to unpackwith the topic.
Just a place to start, then, ishow does having a heavenly
father help us appreciate ourearthly fathers?
Jeff Samelson (02:46):
I mean, this is something I don't think most of
us as Christians think aboutmuch.
It's like, okay, yeah, there'sthe heavenly father, oh yeah,
and there's my father, orwhatever.
But you know, just the ideathat there is a God up there who
has a son and that son has afather, that that's something
that we are privileged also tohave.
God designed our families, ourexistence on earth so that we
(03:11):
also would have fathers, in thesame way that his son has a
father.
I mean, I'd say that's a prettybig deal that he's giving that
same thing to us.
On the other hand, hesacrificed his son, which we
don't have to do, but that's thething.
He did that so that we wouldnever have to do anything like
(03:31):
that, that we don't have tosuffer the consequences of our
sins.
And what a father that is, thatwould be willing to do that to
save us, so that we then couldbe brought back into his family.
That's just a really amazingkind of thing there.
Bob Fleischmann (03:49):
Well, plus, the Heavenly Father is the perfect
example.
And when we built our house, webuilt my mom and dad's house
next door and I remember lookingout the window of my office and
watching my father help mymother into the house.
She was having troublenavigating the steps I think she
just had some knee surgery orsomething and there was a
(04:12):
tenderness and everything and Iremember thinking what a great
modeling for me on just lovingmy own wife and so forth.
Well, in Scripture, thereferences we have of our
Heavenly Father whether you hada train wreck for a father or
not, it's a perfect example.
So, like when you get intothese references in Scripture
about our Father disciplines usor things like that we do have a
(04:35):
perfect model, even if ourmodel wasn't perfect and none of
our models were perfect, but Imean our worldly models but we
do have a perfect Heavenly modeland he describes himself as a
relationship of a father to us.
Christa Potratz (04:50):
So then, how does having a heavenly father
help Christian fathers be betterfathers?
Jeff Samelson (04:56):
Well, as Bob just said, we have the perfect
example, perfect model, in Godthe Father.
We don't ever have to wondergee, what does a good father
look like?
We've got that.
And one thing in particularthat I think we should value is
the constancy and consistency ofhis fathering, that he never
(05:19):
lets up.
He never says, oh you know, Idid that last week, I'm kind of
tired, I'm not going to do itthis week with his kids.
He never says, oh, you know, Idid that last week, I'm kind of
tired, I'm not going to do itthis week with his kids.
He never gets tired.
He's always loving.
He always does what is best forhis children.
He's not thinking selfishly.
This is always.
That's something that we asearthly fathers are going to
(05:42):
struggle with because we'resinful creatures, but it's
therefore something that we wantto strive to imitate in our own
fathering, whether we'redealing with infants, toddlers,
teenagers or adult children.
Just to think that God is justso constant, so consistent in
(06:04):
all of the good things of hisfathering, that's something for
us to look at and say, yeah, Ishould be more like that.
Christa Potratz (06:13):
Yeah, I think you know what really hits me
about God, the Father too, and Ithink a lot of like what Bob
mentioned as well, is that, youknow, like we think, okay,
father, like love is the mostimportant thing, and I mean we
definitely see that with God andHis loving of Jesus and all of
us.
But there is how Bob wasmentioning that perfect
(06:35):
discipline, and I also think too, I always love the
communication between Jesus andHis Father and how much he is
praying and you just have thatbeautiful communication and you
know, even just in the Garden ofGethsemane he wants this cup to
be taken from him and God saysno, and you know, he just, I
(06:58):
mean, and just how that allplays out is just really I don't
know.
It's just.
It's such a complete picture, Iguess, of fathering and we tend
to maybe just kind of takepieces in this earthly world,
but there's just such acompleteness in the way that we
see Godfather.
Bob Fleischmann (07:17):
And because of our evil inclination that we all
have, we're easily influencedinto almost a God-contrary
figure of fatherhood.
So, in other words, how many ofus, as kids, didn't think well,
if my parents would just trustme more, if my parents would
just let me do more, if myparents would let me be like
(07:38):
so-and-so's parent you know,have the freedom that they have,
and so we're always opting tocut those ties and so forth.
And I was thinking a little bitwhen Jeff was talking about that
consistency with God.
I don't know why it takes somany years to realize that it
really isn't a good thing to geteverything you want.
And that's kind of what Goddoes as he works all things for
(08:01):
your good.
You go through some prettypainful stuff in order to have
you be kept close to him.
And you don't see it.
You certainly rarely see it.
Maybe you rarely see it at themoment, but in hindsight it sure
looks a lot clearer.
Christa Potratz (08:17):
I think too, you know, when we have maybe a
great Christian father, it'sreally easy to make that
connection with God, the Fathertoo, from, I mean, my own
experience I mean I came from ahome where I had a very loving
father just that whole conceptof, oh I don't know, just being
like the salt and light of theearth and reflecting God.
(08:40):
I saw that through my dad too,and that was just really really
wonderful and beautiful.
But there are people that growup that don't have that.
So how can maybe having a badfather or father that you know
just isn't around or doesn'tshow that type of love, or maybe
(09:01):
even no father at all, someonewho wasn't present, be a
challenge to the Christian faith?
Jeff Samelson (09:09):
Well, I mean, as we mentioned, the best way to
see things is to look to theFather in heaven as the
definition and the ideal offatherhood, and then you compare
your experience with yourearthly father to that.
But the way it normally andnaturally works for most people
is that human beings, especiallywhen they're kids, they take
(09:32):
the only kind of fatherhood thatthey have experience with and
then they use that as thestandard by which they judge all
other kinds of fatherhood.
And that means that far toooften, if you had a bad kind of
experience with your father yourearthly father or no father at
(09:52):
all then that gets transferredover to your ideas of God the
Father, or that can easilyhappen, and that means that you
end up with either an incorrector an incomplete idea of God's
fatherhood, whereas for somebodywith, as you mentioned, krista,
with this good experience withyour own father, you think, oh,
(10:15):
wow, and my heavenly father islike that, only so much more and
better.
But if you've got this notcorrect, not good idea of
fatherhood, and you say, oh, soyou're saying the father in
heaven is a taskmaster, you knowsomebody who just never
forgives somebody who's unl toaffect their ability to trust
(10:36):
God, to see him as a comfort ora strength for them.
That's not good, you know.
We can teach against that, butthat's the kind of thing that
goes deep into a person's psyche.
(10:56):
At the very least, it's helpfulto be aware that that's going
on, but many people aren't.
Bob Fleischmann (11:02):
Well, I can't overstate the value of modeling
and how that influences us.
And when you have a parent thatis not a good parent biblically
speaking or even by thestandards of society, a parent
that molests, a parent thatharms, a parent, that is cruel
and so forth, seeing that,having that modeled for you all
(11:25):
the time, if you do not exposeyourself to truth and to proper
modeling, that becomes theprominent figure in your head.
And it's unfortunate becauseover the years of my ministry
I've encountered people who havecomplained that I know that we
(11:45):
should be celebrating fathers,but I have this and I can't get
it out of my head.
I know that God's a perfectmodel, but I still can't get it
out of my head.
Now I don't know.
I wanted to ask both of you doyou find in parenting especially
for those of us who, ourchildren, are grown up and moved
out that if it weren't for thefact that I think I have less
(12:07):
patience now than I did when Iwas younger which wasn't a lot
even when I was younger but youkind of wish you knew what you
do know now, oh yeah, back thenyou know, it's like all the
times when I said things that Inow wish I hadn't in raising the
kids and stuff like that.
That hindsight, and part of itis that I feel, and there were
(12:29):
many times I was a bad father, Ididn't model the ideal father
in heaven, and as I look backI'm going doggone it.
It's so clear now If I could doit.
You know, I always said my twosmartest times for parenting
were before I had kids and afterthey moved out.
You know, I was much smarterbefore I had children.
I had all the answers untilyour kids prove you all wrong,
(12:52):
you know.
And then, once they're movedout, you're going oh yeah, now I
should have done this and Ishould have done that.
But part of it is that we haveto remember that there are
better homes and worse homes.
There just are, and I've hadcongregations full of them.
So some people have had theseidyllic parents.
I was fortunate I had idyllicparents.
(13:13):
I think part of the admirationthat I developed for my parents
was rooted in the fact that theydid not have idyllic parents.
They had grandparents mygrandparents that were
problematic, harsh, thoughtless,that kind of thing.
And yet out of that comes thesetwo who were wonderful parents
for us.
(13:33):
But even in my wonderfulupbringing.
They would have been the firstto admit it wasn't ideal.
There are levels of goodnessand levels of badness, but no
one's immune.
Sin affects all families andyou navigate it and you keep
going back to the perfectstandard.
I wish I was when the childrenwere young.
I wish I was the student ofScripture then that I am now.
(13:57):
I think that's where insightcomes.
Christa Potratz (14:00):
There's a point when you grow up too, where you
realize, oh yeah, my parentsweren't perfect, or you kind of
see maybe the cracks more and Imean that's just human nature
and seeing that too, there canbe from a fatherhood perspective
(14:31):
and I mean even a mother toothat guilt that you find.
And so it's like that.
What kind of guilt do earthlyfathers have to deal with?
So that guilt that earthlyfathers have to deal with, and
how they should cope with thatguilt if they didn't do
everything perfectly.
Jeff Samelson (14:52):
Yeah, I mean Bob introduced some of those second
thoughts and such in thehindsight.
But I mean there is just somuch that, as fathers, if we
stop and think and not everyfather does but if we stop to
think so much that we failed todo that we should have done.
So much that we've done wrong,so much that we've forgotten to
do, so many times we said thewrong thing or failed to say the
(15:14):
right thing.
So many opportunities that welost for connecting with our
kids, for teaching themimportant lessons.
So much time we could have justspent playing with them or
being with them or talking withthem.
I could go on for hours, and Ithink most thoughtful fathers
would be able to do that as well, and most of the time we'd
rather not think about all thatthere is to feel guilt about.
(15:37):
But when we do, I think it'skind of hardwired a bit perhaps
even more into fathers than intomothers that instead of feeling
the guilt, we decide, okay,well then there's something I've
got to do about it.
And that unfortunately workswell into a whole kind of work
righteousness thing of well, ifI have sinned, the thing I need
(15:58):
to do is to work to undo thatsin and well, certainly yes, if
I've made a mistake as a parent,if there's something I can do
to undo that mistake, I shoulddo that.
But what we should do with allof that guilt is take it to the
cross.
I mean, that's father sin isjust like any other kind of sin.
(16:20):
It's not in some specialcategory that says, oh, all
those others Jesus died for, butthese you've got to work off.
No, it's not like that.
These are sins just like anyothers.
And you go to the cross and yousay, father, forgive me for
Jesus' sake, for the sake ofyour son, and you trust that
that is forgiven.
And then, in the power offorgiveness and the freedom of
(16:42):
forgiveness, you move on to dobetter.
Bob Fleischmann (16:46):
Becoming grandparents is kind of a
revelation in and of itself, andI think that's oftentimes why
kind of the joke is about howBill Cosby had a routine where
he used to talk about how hismother would come and give dimes
and quarters to the grandkidsand stuff and Cosby used to say
that is not my mother, that'sjust a lady, an old lady,
(17:09):
impersonating my mother.
My mother wasn't that nice oranything.
To some degree, I look at theway my kids parent their
children and my first thought isthey didn't learn that from me.
They're so much better at itand yet when you sit down and
talk with them, they still tellthe same war stories.
You know, one of the thingsthat can happen when you become
(17:32):
a greater student of Scriptureyou begin to hold on to guilt a
little bit.
You're looking at all thethings that I should have said
and I should have done.
I was thinking I think it wasDavid Cassidy from the Partridge
family.
His last words when he died wasso much wasted time and I was
thinking of that when you weretalking about you know, I should
have spent more time with himand everything you know.
(17:54):
You start reading God's wordand you start.
You know you feel prettyconvicted and you know, in the
work that we do in our pregnancycare centers and at our Home
for Mothers, we encounter thistoo, where people will talk
about relationships that theyhad and they said I just I can
forgive them, but I can'tforgive myself.
And, like Jeff said, you haveto leave it at the cross.
(18:18):
I mean somebody died for youbecause of that.
What do you mean?
You can't forgive yourself, youmean it just wasn't good enough
.
Well, you have to get to thepoint of just moving on.
Now the problem is thatsometimes maybe your children
aren't ready to move on.
You'll say you're sorry to thekids.
I remember once saying to oneof my daughters wow, you know,
(18:41):
so-and-so can really be kind ofshort and kind of— and they said
well, where do you think theylearned it from, dad?
Paul Snamiska (18:48):
You know it, it can really be kind of short, and
they said well, where do youthink they learned it?
Bob Fleischmann (18:49):
from Dad?
It's like whoa okay.
But the thing is thatforgiveness actually begins at
the cross.
It doesn't begin with you beingenlightened, it actually begins
at the cross.
As that message of the crossseeps into you, it gives you the
tools to forgive others, but italso gives you the tools to
forgive yourself and to move on.
Christa Potratz (19:11):
And that is a really important point too about
forgiveness.
And if you are a child goingthrough that and maybe you
didn't have a great father andmaybe there are things where you
need to forgive, sometimes thatcan maybe seem like a huge
mountain to overcome, and so howcan a child really go about
(19:36):
forgiving a father who wasn'tthere or who had some maybe very
big shortcomings?
Jeff Samelson (19:46):
One of the things that even the secular world
gets this, although I think to acertain extent they get it from
Christianity.
But if you refuse to forgivesomeone for what they have done
whether it's your father oranyone else, an erring spouse or
a bad boss or whatever it isthat's not something that you're
holding over that person.
(20:08):
That's something you'reallowing them to hold over you.
It's you're holding onto agrudge for no good reason.
It does you no good and it doesthem no harm.
Instead, if you let that go andthat's interesting, that one of
the biblical words forforgiveness has, as it's sensed,
the idea of just releasingsomething, of letting it go
(20:30):
that's something, then, thatit's no longer hanging on you,
it's no longer on your shouldersand you're able to let it go,
and that is freeing.
We learn that again from thewhole Christian thing of
forgiveness that when Godforgives us, our sins, for
Jesus' sake, they're gone, wedon't have to carry that weight
(20:51):
any longer, and he says goodbyeto them as well.
It's not something he justholds on to and says well, if
you mess up again, I'm going tobring this up.
No, no, that's not the way loveworks, and so children should
forgive their fathers for theirfailings.
It doesn't necessarily meanthat they forget what their
(21:11):
fathers have done.
Very often there are real worldconsequences to the ways that
fathers fail.
That has been done, maybe hewas never around and so the son
or daughter grew up in povertyor didn't have certain
opportunities.
Those are things that lastthroughout life.
(21:33):
You don't just pretend thosethings never happened, but you
can still forgive the man whodid that, just as in Christ, god
forgave us, and then we canmove on to try to overcome
whatever damage was done,whatever opportunities were lost
and so forth.
Bob Fleischmann (21:53):
We've often quoted the scriptural passage
Vengeance is mine, saith theLord.
So why is that such animportant passage to keep in
mind?
It's because oftentimes, whenwe hold grudges, we're trying to
do the best we can to extractvengeance.
If we can do it by harsh words,we'll do it by harsh words If
(22:17):
we could do it by cutting themoff from something they want
like.
But you will never see yourgrandchildren.
You get all of these kinds ofefforts where we're trying to
extract some form of levelingthe field for having deeply hurt
us when we were young.
And the way that you get by it,quite honestly, is, first of
(22:38):
all, introspection.
God has to put up with an awfullot in each of us, even the
best of us.
God says I'll still send my sonto die for you, even though
last week in church youconfessed your sins, you set out
not to sin anymore and youdidn't even get out the door and
you did it again.
So, in other words, start withintrospection.
(23:00):
But secondly, don't forget yourplace.
Vengeance is not up to you.
You can say the harsh words.
I don't know if you're lookingfor that hurt.
Look in their eyes to feel likeyou've leveled the playing
field, but none of that matters.
God says that's my domain,that's not your domain, and so
stay in your lane and then moveon.
(23:21):
You can't control how otherpeople act.
You can only control you, andso you have to work on getting
you over that hump.
Jeff Samelson (23:31):
Yeah, a similar kind of thing is when people say
, well, I'm not going to forgivehim until he says he's sorry.
Okay, I can understand thefeeling behind that.
You want that other person toacknowledge what they have done.
But two problems with that.
One is okay, what exactly isgoing to be a sufficient
demonstration of remorse If youjust say okay, I'm sorry, okay,
(23:56):
you're?
Paul Snamiska (23:56):
saying that's not good enough.
Jeff Samelson (23:57):
So okay then, what is going to be good enough
and it's a moving target whenyou're never going to do that.
But the more fundamentalproblem with that is that you've
.
Okay, then what is going to begood enough and it's a moving
target when you're never goingto do that.
But the more fundamentalproblem with that is that you've
again just turned over all thepower to the other person and
you may wait forever for thatperson to say I'm sorry, and
they may never do it, in whichcase you've lost out on all the
(24:19):
benefit you get from letting goof that offense and forgiving
with that.
And I just wanted to add oneother thing that if you are
indeed someone who has sufferedfrom a bad father or an absent
father or something like that,and you've got we'll just say
issues as a result of that, talkto somebody, don't just let
(24:41):
that fester within yourself.
Talk to your pastor about it,get counseling about it,
sometimes even just gettingsomebody else's unbiased opinion
about you.
Know, my dad was like that Wasthat as bad as I think it was?
Or my dad did this thing andI've just never really been able
to let go of it.
Maybe somebody else'sperspective?
I remember there was somethingthat one of my seminary
professors said to me once aboutsomething and it's just like,
(25:04):
yeah, I guess I'd never reallylooked at it that way before and
it really helped me towardshealing and forgiveness in that
sense, and make sure that thething that you're holding
against your father is actuallya real sin actual or is actually
that big a sin.
I saw something online lastweek or so about there is an
(25:28):
increasing number, a scarilyincreasing number, of young
adults who have basically justwritten their one or both
parents out of their lives andthe reasons they give for this
(25:52):
are like are you kidding me?
It's not like my dad molested meand never owned up to yes.
Well, as Christians will say,that's not a biblical attitude,
but it's not healthy in any wayeither, and so yeah.
Christa Potratz (26:04):
Sometimes it does just come down to
perspective because, oh, theydidn't believe in me, they
didn't respect me, they didn't,and that's all really sad too.
And I think sometimes, you know, we sit there and think like,
okay, this person doesn'tdeserve my forgiveness or they
don't deserve my love.
(26:25):
And that is really where, again, we can go back to God and we
can see that none of us deservewhat our Heavenly Father has
given us.
And so when you make thatcomparison, then you just
realize like that whole, oh,they don't deserve this.
(26:45):
I mean, we really don't deserveany of God's love.
Bob Fleischmann (26:50):
Oftentimes we've modeled our notions of
love and forgiveness fromtelevision and movies, where it
gets tied up in a nice littlebow at the end or it's
unresolved, and all these kindsof things.
Think about the biblicalexamples, you know like when it
talks about love.
Because of the increase ofwickedness, the love of most
(27:11):
will go cold.
Well, are you getting chilly?
Why?
Because the world wants toattach affection and rosiness
and everything to love andreciprocal nature to love.
The biblical definition of loveis willing to get struck on one
side of the cheek and then givethem the other side, or walking
the extra mile, and so forth.
(27:32):
In other words, love is—thebiblical concept of love is
devotion, even without reward.
I still think of Jeff's commentabout well, they didn't even say
they're sorry.
Well, and you know when you'rethinking that way, the moment
they do apologize, it's notgoing to be good enough.
Now, they don't mean it, youknow, and that kind of stuff.
And yet you find in our perfectexample of our Heavenly Father
(27:58):
someone who puts up with anincredible amount from us.
And we might argue and say,well, but my father molested me,
my father abused me, my fatherwas harsh with me.
I mean some genuinely reallybad things.
But the point is is when we talkabout forgiveness and we talk
about love, it doesn't mean thatthere will always be the
(28:20):
consequences for it.
For some people, consequencesare jail time.
For some people, consequencesare just always leaving a memory
that doesn't seem to want tofade.
But besides that, ourcommitment of love is a willing
to be devoted, even if there'snot the reciprocal nature of
affection, our willingness toforgive if they don't want to
(28:42):
forgive back.
You don't go to the altar withhatred on your heart.
You know.
It's just.
The scriptural definition forlove and forgiveness is
dramatically different than whatyou learned from television and
movies.
Christa Potratz (28:55):
So just kind of pulling it all together now and
everything, any final thoughtsor just a message on really
God's design for fathers and therole that the father plays in
the family.
Jeff Samelson (29:10):
What we see from our heavenly father.
That model shows us that theidea or the model of a cold and
unforgiving father, that doesn'tfit what we're supposed to be
as fathers.
Neither does the model of apermissive and uncaring or
uninvolved father, becausethat's not what God the Father
is.
So God, the Father's perfectmodel, tells human fathers to be
(29:35):
loving and caring, but also totake sin seriously, as he did,
which means discipline andpunishment when appropriate, but
also shows a readiness toforgive and show mercy.
And this constant cycle of loveand forgiveness.
And all of this together, andthat's the model, that's the
(29:58):
design that God has given to usand has given to every family.
Bob Fleischmann (30:03):
And I had idyllic parents.
I mean, I just did.
My father died unexpectedlyfive weeks ago and it's still a
horrible pain, still a deep pain.
But when I look at thetrajectory of my parents, I
think they practiced goodparenting and my father good
fathering, from what the lateTim Keller would call common
(30:24):
grace.
In other words, they learnedfrom bad examples and God had
given them the wisdom topractice the antithesis of the
bad examples.
They were gentle but firm.
They were loving and caring.
But then what was interestingand this is my advice to people
who felt that they did not havesuch idyllic parents and that is
(30:46):
, allow time for faith to work,Because my parents, as they got
older, became students ofScripture and even though my
father was loving and caring,even before he was a student of
Scripture, he became better, hefound an anchor.
The problem, what I've noticedwith a lot of families, when
(31:09):
they have some deep wounds fromthe past, is they don't allow
room for somebody to change.
Why?
Because they don't want to riskbeing hurt again.
But people do change and to saythat they don't is maybe
because you're refusing thechange.
Recognize that exposure to theWord of God, exposure to the
(31:29):
perfect example of a HeavenlyFather does create change and
you begin to see it in differentthings that they do and say.
Christa Potratz (31:37):
Well, thank you both for talking to us about
Father's Day, and we thank allof our listeners too, and we
wish everyone a happy Father'sDay and just love this episode
and the reminder, too, that wehave a Heavenly Father that
loves us very much as well, andso if you have any questions on
(32:00):
this episode, please reach outto us at lifechallengesus, and
we look forward to having youback next time.
Paul Snamiska (32:07):
Bye us a review wherever you access it and
sharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
(32:29):
you to know we're here to help.
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atChristianLifeResourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at LifeChallengesus,so be sure to check it out For
(32:53):
more about our parentorganization.
Please visitChristianLifeResourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
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