May 20, 2025 • 35 mins
Death and aging are universal human experiences, yet few of us feel fully prepared to navigate them. In this deeply thoughtful conversation, Amber Albee Swenson draws from her unique perspective as both a private elderly companion and nursing home worker to offer wisdom that transcends typical end-of-life discussions.
Swenson walks us through practical preparation strategies regardless of our current life stage. For those still in their prime, she emphasizes that daily health habits aren't just about present comfort but future independence. "Thank God that you still can climb those stairs," she advises, encouraging a perspective shift that views physical capabilities as gifts rather than burdens.
When discussing the caregiving journey, Swenson's compassion shines through as she acknowledges its inherent messiness. Having watched her own mother's struggle with Alzheimer's, she offers the profound yet simple goal of making loved ones "feel safe and loved" rather than striving for unattainable perfection. Her practical advice on advocacy, family dynamics, and recognizing when additional help is needed comes with reassurance that seeking support doesn't represent failure.
The conversation takes a particularly moving turn when examining the distinctly Christian approach to end-of-life care. Swenson shares powerful stories of seemingly unconscious patients responding to prayer and Scripture, reminding us that our spiritual presence matters even when words seem futile. "This is not the time to settle scores," she emphasizes, encouraging families to focus on grace, forgiveness, and the promises of eternity.
Perhaps most challenging is Swenson's call for Christians to overcome hesitation about sharing faith in healthcare settings. "Stop being so afraid of offending," she urges, noting that many nursing home residents lack spiritual support in their final days. This reframes family visits not just as obligations but as ministry opportunities that extend beyond our loved ones to everyone within hearing distance.
Ready to approach end-of-life matters with greater confidence and spiritual purpose? This episode offers both practical guidance and spiritual encouragement for one of life's most challenging journeys.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amber Albee Swenson (00:00):
Because I think as Christians, we have a
huge role to play when we dohave loved ones in the nursing
home or the skilled carefacility or a hospice house.
We bring the light with useverywhere we go, and I
certainly hope that we are doingdevotions with our parents or
our spouse, that people can hearus singing the songs, that they
(00:21):
can hear us praying with ourloved one before they eat.
A lot of times, we bring thelight not just to our loved ones
, but to everyone there, whichis why I think it's a really
special ministry that Godentrusts us with.
Paul Snamiska (00:38):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (01:05):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz and I'm heretoday with Pastor Bob
Fleischman, and today we have aspecial guest with us.
We have Amber LB Swenson.
Amber, I'm really excited tohave you on the podcast today.
You recently spoke at theChristian Life Resources
National Convention and wewanted to have you on after
(01:26):
hearing your talk and I haveheard you speak before on a
variety of topics, but this wasthe first time that I had really
heard you speak, I think,exclusively on end of life, and
I just found it reallyinteresting.
And it was one of those topicswhere maybe you see the title of
(01:51):
it or you think, oh, that's notreally going to pertain to me,
and then it's just somethingreally for everyone, I found.
But I'd love it if you wouldjust start a little bit by
telling us about yourself andwhat really led you into the
knowledge that you have,especially with this topic In
(02:12):
2014,.
Amber Albee Swenson (02:14):
My youngest was in kindergarten full time
and I was asked to be a privateelderly companion and I had
never done that before.
I didn't even know what thatmeant, and I had never done that
before.
I didn't even know what thatmeant, but I was open to a new
job because my youngest had juststarted school and I had been a
stay-at-home mom for the lastfive years.
Before that.
I had actually been in themedical healthcare setting, so I
(02:34):
had started as a nursingassistant, then I had gone to
the cardiac monitor lab tomonitor heart rhythms and then I
had gone to urgent care andworked there.
And so I had gone to urgentcare and worked there and so I
had some medical background.
So when my pastor actuallyreached out because there was
someone in the congregation whohad an elderly father who had
Alzheimer's and was havingtrouble eating and she worked
(02:58):
full time, so she needed peopleto come and sit at the nursing
home with him and feed him,because it would take him about
an hour and a half to two hoursto eat each meal because he
really struggled to swallow andthe staff at the nursing home
just did not have the time tosit for two hours to feed one
person, so she asked us to comein and feed him.
(03:19):
Well, then we also were able toread the Bible with him, pray,
sing hymns, and it was just awonderful, wonderful experience.
He died four years in, and thenI took other clients.
I did that right up until 2020,when the world shut down and
COVID kept me out of thefacility where I had been with
(03:39):
the family that I had beenworking with.
The family decided at that pointthey would just take care of
their mom by themselves becausethey don't want to risk anybody
bringing COVID in, and so I wasat home for a year and a half
while my children were all athome doing school, and then I
went to work.
In Minnesota, where I live,they had a definite shortage
(04:01):
work shortage in the nursinghomes at the time, and I had
never worked as a nursingassistant in a nursing home.
But there was a desperate need,and so I signed up to be a
traveler, which means I wasn'thired by the nursing home
initially at first, but by thestate of Minnesota to go in, and
then eventually, I stayed atthe same nursing home for two
(04:22):
years taking care of people, andI just I actually.
I've always loved the elderly,but I really fell in love, not
so much with the day in and dayout, but with the people and the
opportunities that I had totell them about Jesus at the end
of life.
Bob Fleischmann (04:39):
Is there a lot?
I know there's other businessesthat will do like, for example,
we have my wife and I havelong-term care insurance, and so
they always talk about, well,we can bring people out, you
know, and I'm never quite surewhat all they do, but is yours?
Does your what you do integrateinto something like that, or is
it Okay?
(05:00):
Yeah?
Amber Albee Swenson (05:00):
Yeah, so as a private elderly companion,
the first client that I had wasin the nursing home, as I said,
but then I went into people'shomes and helped them get out of
bed in the morning or go to bedat night, do all their cares so
that they could stay in theirhome.
There was one client that I hadthat I went three times a week
and bathed him, did his laundry,made sure he had clean clothes
(05:23):
on, shaved him, that type ofthing.
It's mostly the private elderlycompanion is mostly to
facilitate so that people canstay in their homes or
apartments as long as possible,and there usually is a point
that that doesn't work anymore.
You know, when they can nolonger help stand up and they
need more of the equipment thatwe can't, you know, lift them
out of bed or carry them, thenthey sometimes end up and they
(05:45):
need more of the equipment thatwe can't, you know, lift them
out of bed or carry them.
Then they sometimes end upgoing into a facility, but it
just kind of keeps them at homea little bit longer.
Christa Potratz (05:51):
Well, your talk at the conference, at the
convention.
It talked about, I guess,essentially maybe preparing to
die or just this idea of what wecan do in terms of thinking
about the end of life, and youbroke it up really into three
(06:11):
different categories, one beingwhat we can do when we're not
there yet, and then going intowhat we can do when we're taking
care of somebody who's elderly,and then what we can do if it's
ourself.
So I'd like to start with thefirst area.
When you were talking aboutwhat you can do if you are not
(06:34):
there yet, somebody maybe likemyself, in their 40s, or
somebody who just doesn't havethat on their radar yet- Yep.
Amber Albee Swenson (06:45):
So for all of us it's such a good idea to
eat well, get sleep, watch oursugar intake, exercise, and you
know.
Those are things that we hearall the time.
You hear it and you know it,but you think, ah, it's not that
big of a deal, this donut,whatever.
You know it's instantgratification and yet it
(07:11):
actually becomes significantly abigger deal as you get to the
point where you're not able todo things for yourself anymore.
So if you maintain a healthyweight, it's going to be easier
for you to get around and keepwalking and it's also going to
be easier for other people tohelp you.
That actually may keep you inyour home longer.
If you're a normal, healthyweight and your family can help
you get in and out of bed, canhelp you get in and out of the
chair and you can use a walker,you might be able to stay in
(07:34):
your home longer than if you areobese, overweight and no one in
the family can help you.
We now know that sleeping playsa huge role in decision making
and how you function throughoutthe day, how you handle things.
So when you're very sleepdeprived, you're not able to
think as clearly.
And yet, for some reason whenwe're young, we seem to think,
(07:57):
oh man, just grab some morecoffee, grab another Red Bull,
grab a Mountain Dew, it's allokay.
No, when your body is tellingyou that you're tired, that's
your clue that you're trying todo too much.
You need to slow down.
You need to get the rest thatyour body needs.
So, eating well, sleeping,exercise really important.
And in fact we saw this all thetime at the nursing home.
(08:19):
You know, people think thatit's really mean to make people
walk down to go have lunch orwhatever.
We were actually trying to keepthem mobile as long as possible
, because as long as you canwalk, you can walk into the
bathroom, you can do thosethings, and once you are unable
to be mobile anymore, now youhave to wait for people to help
you with everything.
So, unlike the American versionof retirement, which is you
(08:43):
know, oh man, you've done it all, now just sit and relax.
And no, the truth is, as longas you are able to use your body
, use it.
Take the extra steps to getmore exercise so that you stay
in shape.
Bob Fleischmann (08:56):
I remember a few years ago when we were
taking care of Diane's father.
He was living in independentliving and his father, he was
living in independent living.
He was in his 90s and he wascomplaining about the difficulty
with Parkinson's of being ableto move around, and so he was
pitching the VA to get himselfan electric wheelchair.
So we really were kind of onhis team.
(09:18):
You know we were all rying, youknow we should get it.
It took like a year and a half,but he finally got it.
We get it.
We take him a year and a half,but he finally got it.
We get it.
We take him to his firstdoctor's appointment.
The doctor said well, that wasprobably the worst thing you
could have done for him.
Yeah, because now he'll have noincentive at all to force
himself to keep moving, get upand walk around.
Amber Albee Swenson (09:38):
That's exactly right.
Bob Fleischmann (09:39):
Yeah, and it really is true.
I live in a two-story house andI growl every time I go
upstairs downstairs andeverything.
Amber Albee Swenson (09:53):
And yet, at the same time, I'm thinking,
I'm investing into the future.
You are and that's actually howI try to get people to think of
it is, instead of being grumpyabout it.
Thank God that you can.
If you live long enough, therewill be a day you can't it.
Thank God that you can.
If you live long enough, therewill be a day you can't.
And once you get to that point,it's amazing how many people
say, oh, I would give anythingto be able to go up and down the
steps, or I would give anythingto be able to walk to the
(10:16):
dining room.
And so, instead of complainingand grumbling, oh, I have to do
this, no, you get to.
Bob Fleischmann (10:23):
So you got people when they're Crystal's
advanced age.
You got people who are justit's just not on their radar and
so it's just a reminder to behealthy and so forth.
On a practical level, how doesfamily become an obstacle to
what you're doing?
So what kind of challenges doyou encounter with the family
(10:45):
when you're trying to get theminto a mindset that caregiving
starts early?
You need to keep moving, keepactive, and then there becomes a
time where you have to makesome changes.
Amber Albee Swenson (10:56):
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things
is that a lot of Americans don'tlike to think that taking care
of anyone is their issue.
If mom and dad can't do itanymore, just take them to the
nursing home and someone elseshould do it.
And the first obstacle that wehave to get over is the fact
that it is our responsibility.
Our parents took care of uswhen we were younger and as they
(11:19):
age and they need help, whetherit's just trips to the grocery
store or maybe they don't driveso well at night anymore, drive
so well at night anymore and soinstead of complaining and
saying, you know, I don't havetime for this, no, this is your
responsibility, so let's work itout.
So the first obstacle is ourown selfishness, I think, and
then also realizing it's such adelicate balance and this is I
(11:42):
was very open and honest when Iwas speaking.
This is messy.
This is not an exact science.
What works for one familycertainly doesn't work for the
next, and it can get verydifficult.
When my mom had to quit driving, we knew she needed to quit
driving.
We knew it for a while.
It was still really a challenge.
There were many, manydiscussions.
(12:04):
There were many conversationstrying to convince her mom, it's
not about you, it's about otherpeople on the road.
It's not that we want to takesomething away from you, we just
want to make sure that otherpeople are safe and I am more
than happy to come and get you.
So all you have to do is call.
Well, you say that and thenyour mom calls five minutes
(12:25):
before you have a podcast andyou're like well, I can't
actually come now.
And she said, well, but youtold me you would come anytime.
Well, mom, I can come in anhour and a half.
I just can't come right now.
There's so many delicatesituations here and there's so
much give and take, and it'sreally about learning to work
together and get through thestruggle together.
Christa Potratz (12:46):
Yeah, no, and I think you know that ties in
nicely too to the next pointwhere you were talking about
what you do for caring for anelderly person, and I love how
you mentioned just that.
It's not a just an easy thing.
And I think also another thingis just every family is
different too in that aspect.
(13:08):
Anything else on that subjectthat really, that you'd like to
mention too?
Amber Albee Swenson (13:14):
Yeah, so my mom has Alzheimer's.
It has been probably one of thebiggest learning experiences
that I've had since doing eldercare, because when it's your own
mother, it's a totallydifferent thing.
When it's your own spouse, it'sa very different thing.
You can work doing this withpeople that you have no
relationship with, and it's avery, very different thing when
(13:37):
it's someone you love, and whenthe relationship is different,
you know someone else mightlisten to me a whole lot easier
than my own mother, and so itbecomes a challenge.
But I decided early on my goalswith my mother is to make her
feel loved and safe.
So perfection goes out thewindow.
The perfect ideal this is howyou should live doesn't always
(14:01):
make it, doesn't matter.
You know it's much like whenyou, I had four children.
So when I had four small kids,was the house always clean?
Nope, it wasn't.
Did kids get baths every night?
No, they did not.
Were there nights that theywent to bed and they threw up in
their bed.
Yes, there was.
So again, you have this idealthat you would like to see, but
(14:23):
at the end of the day, for me mygoals were safe and loved.
If mom felt safe and lovedtoday, my goals were safe and
loved.
If mom felt safe and lovedtoday, even if I didn't get her
to change her clothes, even ifshe didn't get the shower, even
if whatever, then I call that awin.
So that was my main focus.
And then also just rememberingwhen you are caretaking, you are
(14:43):
their advocate.
There is a time that they can'tspeak up for themselves, and
it's our job to speak up forthem.
Sometimes that's withhealthcare workers, when we say,
hey, look, she's really beenstruggling with this for a while
.
I think we need medication, orcould you at least take a look?
Could we get in for an x-ray,could we please, you know?
So sometimes it's withhealthcare workers, sometimes
(15:04):
it's with neighbors or otherpeople who are giving them a
hard time.
Your mom walks by my house andthe dog barks or whatever she
doesn't.
She's doing it five times a day.
She used to walk the dog once.
Why is this happening?
She probably forgot she walkedthe dog.
So this is what we're dealingwith.
You just have to be an advocatefor the person when they are no
(15:26):
longer able to speak up forthemselves, which is right out
of Proverbs 31.
Speak up for those who can'tspeak up for themselves.
Christa Potratz (15:33):
What do you do if you just feel, maybe, like
it's getting to be too much?
What is maybe some advice asfar as places to reach out to or
how you maybe even can eventell if it is something that you
really maybe needs someadditional help with?
Amber Albee Swenson (15:55):
Yeah.
So the first thing to note I amnot the primary caregiver for
my mother.
My father is, and so if you'rejust a secondary role, one thing
that's good to note is thefirst cry for help does not mean
there's going to be automaticchange.
So just because dad calls andhe's like Amber, I don't know if
I can do this anymore, doesn'tmean we get everybody together
and put mom somewhere.
(16:15):
Sometimes it's just having abad day, much like if you're a
mom, or even if you were a dadat one point, and you have a
hard day with the kids, you'relike I don't know if I can do
this, like this is way too much.
So knowing that the first cryfor help might not mean a
drastic change is in store, buta lot of times we can sense when
(16:35):
this is getting to be too much,when the load is heavier, when
we're not sleeping, when we'renot able to take care of
ourselves.
And I think the first and mostimportant thing to realize is
that does not mean that you area failure.
So many people struggle thinkingoh man, I wanted to take care
of mom.
You know, I never wanted to puther somewhere.
(16:56):
I never wanted her to have togo, you know what, if God allows
her to live long enough.
There are times that that'smore than you can do.
We have a whole staff at afacility, but, like I said too,
it doesn't mean that someone hasto go somewhere right away.
There are other steps that youcan take.
First, you can ask people tocome into your home to help you,
and sometimes that's lightcleaning, sometimes it's giving
(17:20):
you a break, making sure thatsomeone's there so you can go
out and do the grocery shopping,or so that you can go have
coffee with a friend, or so youcan go to the gym or go to your
dentist appointment.
So there are different levelsof care, and sometimes it's just
a matter of moving into anassisted living place and then
going from there.
There are so many differentlevels of care.
(17:41):
There's nursing home care,there's hospice care, there's
palliative care before hospicecare.
There's a lot of differentthings, and usually your primary
doctor is pretty good atgetting you lined up with the
resources you need for whateverstage you're at.
Christa Potratz (17:55):
Well, the final piece, then, that you talked
about was what to do if it's youyourself going through these
situations.
So what do you recommend?
So what do you?
Amber Albee Swenson (18:08):
recommend.
This is so hard and I think theman that the first person I
took care of, my very firstclient.
He was a retired pastor and Ilearned so much from him he was
no longer able to speak and Iused to joke with him that he
used all his words up.
God had given him a specificnumber of words he used all up
(18:29):
during all that time and so nowhe was left and thankfully I
must have had like 45 minutesermons.
I don't know, but I told himgood, good news for you.
I can speak for both of us, soI'll just keep talking and you
keep listening and we're in agood situation.
One of the things he did thatjust made a huge impact was he
smiled.
So he was not able to speak anylonger, but he smiled at the
(18:53):
staff all the time.
When they would ask a question,he would smile.
When you know they were aboutto do something, when they said
we're going to transfer you intobed now, he would smile.
He just smiled nonstop.
And your attitude when it comesto people taking care of you,
you do not realize how big of adeal that is, because caretaking
(19:13):
is hard and if you can at leastbe encouraging and smile, it
makes a huge difference.
People who have mentaldeficiencies that's not always
in their capability to do that,because they don't always know
what they're doing.
Always in their capability todo that because they don't
always know what they're doing.
But if it is, then just to beable to have that positive,
(19:34):
encouraging attitude.
Also, one of the things that Iwould definitely say is so
helpful for everyone, no matterwhat age you are, is start
talking right now to your family, about your desires and also
For me.
I've given my childrenpermission and my husband I've
said look, I don't expect you tobe able to take care of me, my
(19:56):
whole to what so many in theprevious generation did, which
was don't you ever put me in anursing home, no matter what
(20:18):
happens, it's up to you.
You need to take care of me and, like I said, depending on the
weight of the person, depend onthe mental capacity, depending
on even their house.
If you have a split level house,it's pretty hard to take care
of people with a walker or awheelchair, you know.
If you're doing that, so justgiving your family the
permission to do what they needto do, to let them know that
(20:43):
you're okay with where you go.
I don't care where you go.
If you do go to a facility,there's a good chance there will
be something to complain aboutBecause, as far as I know,
there's no perfect place and nomatter where you go, there's
going to chance there will besomething to complain about
Because, as far as I know,there's no perfect place and no
matter where you go, there'sgoing to be good workers,
there's going to be really,really caring workers and
there's going to be people whogo to put their hours in and get
a paycheck, and so if you canrealize that it's not perfect
(21:08):
and get through that anyway,that's just such a help to your
family.
Bob Fleischmann (21:13):
And even if the loved one is in a facility, it
doesn't prevent you fromvisiting, from spending time
there.
There are just certain aspectsof it become more difficult to
handle, Right?
No?
Amber Albee Swenson (21:26):
and I would hope that people would continue
to see their loved ones,because I think as Christians we
have a huge role to play whenwe do have loved ones in the
nursing home or the skilled carefacility or a hospice house.
We bring the light with useverywhere we go, and I
certainly hope that we are doingdevotions with our parents or
(21:48):
our spouse, that people can hearus singing the songs, that they
can hear us praying with ourloved one before they eat.
A lot of times we bring thelight not just to our loved ones
, but to everyone there, whichis why I think it's a really
special ministry that Godentrusts us with if he puts us
(22:08):
in a place like that at the endof our life, because so many
people there need what we have.
So it's actually a blessing anda ministry that we're entrusted
with.
Christa Potratz (22:18):
Yeah, and that really rolls in nicely, too,
with something else.
I wanted to ask because a lotof the tips and things that
we've talked about are just goodfor anybody, whether you are a
Christian or are taking care ofsomebody who is or isn't but
really wanted to talk aboutspecifically as a Christian,
(22:44):
what is the difference whenfacing death and how that plays
out in some of these things thatwe're talking about plays out
in some of these things thatwe're talking about.
Amber Albee Swenson (23:00):
Yes, Well, when it gets to be time for
death, almost everybody isscared.
That's just a given, becausewe've never done it before and
we don't get to unlikechildbirth, which is another
thing the first time you face it, you have all these women that
come to you and say I know it'sgoing to be hard, but you're
going to.
And if you do this, this, butwhen it comes to death, we don't
have people coming back andsaying, well, this is how you do
it, If you just do this, you'llbe fine.
And so there is fear almostevery time.
(23:24):
I don't think I've ever seenanybody that wasn't at least
somewhat questioning, even whenthey were a Christian, which is
why it's so important, Like Bobsaid, we don't just leave our
loved ones in the nursingfacility, but we're there to
reassure them, to remind them ofthe promises of God, to pray
with them, to sing with them.
(23:46):
I have seen people who I did notthink could hear.
I was absolutely sure they weretoo far into the death process
to be able to hear me, but Godshowed me that people hear,
Because there was a woman whohad not been conscious for at
least 24 hours.
She was doing the death rattle,which is a very heavy breathing
(24:06):
, and we went in to roll her andchange her and the other
nursing assistant left and Ijust kneeled down next to her
bed and started saying theLord's Prayer and her lips
started moving and I was shockedto see this woman who I really
felt was in her own subconscious, comatose, whatever.
But that was just such a greatreminder that our job, as our
(24:29):
loved ones face death, is toremind them of the promises of
God where they're going, makesure that they know.
This is not the time to settlethe score.
So if you are remembering whenmom didn't give you the gift
when you were eight that youreally wanted, it's not the time
to lean down next to her bedand say, mom, you know I've
never forgiven you for notgiving me that baby doll.
(24:49):
That's all gone right now,where you're just grace, you are
about to face the throne of Godand Jesus paid for it all and
there was nothing you had to do.
Everything is forgiven.
Go in grace.
Mom, Dad, whoever, your wife,your husband, I'll see you in
heaven, and that's one of thethings that was the most fun to
(25:12):
me is when I was able to say topeople I'll see you in heaven,
and they were able to respondand say I'll see you there.
We all want to face deathknowing where we're going and
that it isn't dependent on usBecause, again, Satan is pretty
good at the end of our life ofreminding us of all the things
we did wrong, all the things wecould have done better,
reminding us of all the thingswe did wrong, all the things we
(25:33):
could have done better, and sowe need our family and our loved
ones there to really reassureus.
Christa Potratz (25:44):
Yeah, I found that really interesting too.
In your talk too, you mentionedjust the importance of raising
Christian children, even if it'sjust for that reminder at the
end of your life, when you needthat the most.
My father, back in October of2022, had a sudden stroke and
was in the hospital for a fewdays before he passed away, and
(26:07):
we at one point were able to geta bunch of hymnals in there and
sing the songs at his bedsideand pray with a pastor that was
there, and I just kept thinkingthis is what my dad would have
wanted, like if he could havewritten how he would have died.
(26:27):
It would have been with hisfamily around him, singing hymns
and sharing the gospel messagethere.
And you just, I mean, you justdon't think about that in the
moment, but you just lean intowhat you know, and you know that
(26:47):
in a time like that, when youdon't know the future anything,
you just lean into what you knowto be true, with God.
Amber Albee Swenson (26:57):
Absolutely, and there is no time that is
too early to start talking toyour children about death.
I talk about death all the timewith my children.
I try to make it as common aspossible.
We brought them to funerals thewhole time.
They were growing up when theiryou know grandpas died or
whatever, they were included.
We didn't try to hide it fromthem and I've tried to make it
(27:20):
very normal and I've tried totell them these things, and I've
also said to each of them Iexpect you at my funeral, in the
front row, singing as loud asyou can possibly be, because I
am not dead, I am every bitalive, you know.
And just to make it a definitepart of the conversation, I
think, too, one of the thingsthat I don't think we realize is
(27:42):
that a lot of people in thenursing homes don't have access
to a pastor.
So maybe they haven't been tochurch for a long time because
they've been homebound and thecongregation that they used to
you used to be part of, has hada new pastor.
This new pastor doesn't knowthem and, man, I prayed with and
(28:02):
recited scripture, the 23rdPsalm or whatever, with a lot of
people because there was no oneelse coming, and so, if you
want to talk about a ministrythat is very lacking, if there
are retired pastors out there,oh, our people in nursing homes
need you.
A lot of people in the nursinghomes need you.
Bob Fleischmann (28:27):
What were the greatest challenges you faced?
When you've walked into a home,walked into a nursing home
setting and you're saying ifonly someone had done this or if
only this were a little bitdifferent, this would be so much
better to talk with them.
I know as a pastor who servedcongregants and went to nursing
(28:48):
homes and so forth.
Sometimes it was the way thingswere set up in the nursing home
, sometimes it was the way thefamily acted or didn't act.
What do you see as seriousmistakes that are made that
hindered the good that you coulddo in this kind of ministry?
Amber Albee Swenson (29:07):
I worked with amazing families.
Every single family that Iworked with was so open and so,
if I would call and say thisneeds to be done, they were very
open to that.
I think the biggest challengeand this isn't in nursing homes
or whatever.
I think our biggest challengeis not taking the Word of God
(29:27):
seriously all throughout ourlife.
And the biggest challenge Ialways had I never hesitate.
I learned the hard way to nothesitate to talk about Jesus,
because there were people that Ithought I would have time with
and I'd come back to work andthey had died.
And that happened a few timesand I got bold very quickly
(29:48):
because I realized I had missedmy opportunity.
And I think the biggestchallenge is for us Christians
to think that the person whosits at the table with mom might
not want to hear the Word ofGod, and I think that's a silly,
silly thing to think.
If they don't want to hear theWord of God, they can leave.
We can be asked to go in theroom.
Stop being so afraid ofoffending the gospel is
(30:13):
offensive.
But people are going to die andthis might be the last chance
they get to hear the word of God, and maybe you will never have
the experience of taking care ofsomeone and learning to really
like them and then coming backthe next time and they're dead
and realizing you missed youropportunity.
But if that happens, I hope youget bold, real fast.
(30:35):
Whether it's your spouse that'sin there, or a sibling or a
parent or whatever, do nothesitate to pray out loud, to
sing songs, to ask if a worshipservice can be played on an iPad
.
We did that when families wouldsay, hey, could you please do
the live stream on Sundaymorning for this person.
(30:57):
We would bring them out intothe dining room, play it on an
iPad, and it is amazing how someof the other people would come
and sit around to listen becausethey didn't get church and so
don't.
I think we need to get overourselves.
Go into that facility, knowthat you're the light.
Ask what you can do.
I was asked more than once doyou want to come back and do
(31:20):
devotions with people?
I mean, do you want to?
Just, people want it, a lot ofpeople want it and there aren't
enough pastors.
And so just get over your fearof saying the wrong thing, get
over your fear of thinking youmight offend people.
There were people that when wewould have hymn sings at their
nursing home, we would go aroundto every room Do you want to go
(31:42):
out?
We're going to sing hymns.
Today there were people thatwould say no, no, no, I'm not
going out, I'm not going to dothat, but leave the door open.
They're hearing, they canworship in their room.
So I think the greatestobstacle is actually ourselves.
Bob Fleischmann (31:58):
I agree yeah.
Christa Potratz (32:00):
Well, amber, it's been wonderful to talk to
you today about this topic, andI would just love it, too, if
you could just tell people howthey can reach you and also just
maybe share some of the thingsthat you're working on and
upcoming stuff you have too.
Amber Albee Swenson (32:17):
So the easiest way to get in touch with
me is amber at timeofgraceorgthat's just the easiest way to
remember my email and I'mworking on all kinds of projects
to get people into the Word, tomake it easy for people to get
into the Word and to share theWord with their under-church or
unchurched neighbors or friends.
(32:38):
So my whole goal for the comingyear is to write Bible studies
that people want to invite otherpeople into their home or to a
coffee shop or to their churchand say, hey, I know you haven't
been to church in a while, butI want you to study this with me
.
The evidence is overwhelmingthat when we ask people to join
(33:01):
us at church, like three-fourthsof them say yes.
So we need to stop being soself-conscious and everything.
We need to stop being soself-conscious and everything.
So my whole goal is to creatematerial, whether it's podcasts
or Bible studies or I go to alot of churches and speak and
those events too.
(33:22):
I ask the organizers always.
I say you know I love coming tothe church to speak.
I'm super happy to speak tolifelong Christians, but please
ask everybody to bring aneighbor or friend or a relative
or someone who might just be,you know, looking for hope, and
so that's my goal hands down, toget as many people into the
(33:42):
Word as possible, because that'sour hope, that's our joy,
that's our peace and that's whatall of us crave.
Christa Potratz (33:49):
Well, thank you so much, Amber.
We really appreciate it, and wejust want to thank all of our
listeners for joining us today,and you can reach us at
lifechallengesus, and we lookforward to having you back next
time.
Thanks a lot, bye.
Paul Snamiska (34:04):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
the Life Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
(34:24):
you to know we're here to help.
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(34:47):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom parentorganization.
Please visitchristianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
Because I think as Christians, we have a
huge role to play when we dohave loved ones in the nursing
home or the skilled carefacility or a hospice house.
We bring the light with useverywhere we go, and I
certainly hope that we are doingdevotions with our parents or
our spouse, that people can hearus singing the songs, that they
(00:21):
can hear us praying with ourloved one before they eat.
A lot of times, we bring thelight not just to our loved ones
, but to everyone there, whichis why I think it's a really
special ministry that Godentrusts us with.
Paul Snamiska (00:38):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (01:05):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz and I'm heretoday with Pastor Bob
Fleischman, and today we have aspecial guest with us.
We have Amber LB Swenson.
Amber, I'm really excited tohave you on the podcast today.
You recently spoke at theChristian Life Resources
National Convention and wewanted to have you on after
(01:26):
hearing your talk and I haveheard you speak before on a
variety of topics, but this wasthe first time that I had really
heard you speak, I think,exclusively on end of life, and
I just found it reallyinteresting.
And it was one of those topicswhere maybe you see the title of
(01:51):
it or you think, oh, that's notreally going to pertain to me,
and then it's just somethingreally for everyone, I found.
But I'd love it if you wouldjust start a little bit by
telling us about yourself andwhat really led you into the
knowledge that you have,especially with this topic In
(02:12):
2014,.
Amber Albee Swenson (02:14):
My youngest was in kindergarten full time
and I was asked to be a privateelderly companion and I had
never done that before.
I didn't even know what thatmeant, and I had never done that
before.
I didn't even know what thatmeant, but I was open to a new
job because my youngest had juststarted school and I had been a
stay-at-home mom for the lastfive years.
Before that.
I had actually been in themedical healthcare setting, so I
(02:34):
had started as a nursingassistant, then I had gone to
the cardiac monitor lab tomonitor heart rhythms and then I
had gone to urgent care andworked there.
And so I had gone to urgentcare and worked there and so I
had some medical background.
So when my pastor actuallyreached out because there was
someone in the congregation whohad an elderly father who had
Alzheimer's and was havingtrouble eating and she worked
(02:58):
full time, so she needed peopleto come and sit at the nursing
home with him and feed him,because it would take him about
an hour and a half to two hoursto eat each meal because he
really struggled to swallow andthe staff at the nursing home
just did not have the time tosit for two hours to feed one
person, so she asked us to comein and feed him.
(03:19):
Well, then we also were able toread the Bible with him, pray,
sing hymns, and it was just awonderful, wonderful experience.
He died four years in, and thenI took other clients.
I did that right up until 2020,when the world shut down and
COVID kept me out of thefacility where I had been with
(03:39):
the family that I had beenworking with.
The family decided at that pointthey would just take care of
their mom by themselves becausethey don't want to risk anybody
bringing COVID in, and so I wasat home for a year and a half
while my children were all athome doing school, and then I
went to work.
In Minnesota, where I live,they had a definite shortage
(04:01):
work shortage in the nursinghomes at the time, and I had
never worked as a nursingassistant in a nursing home.
But there was a desperate need,and so I signed up to be a
traveler, which means I wasn'thired by the nursing home
initially at first, but by thestate of Minnesota to go in, and
then eventually, I stayed atthe same nursing home for two
(04:22):
years taking care of people, andI just I actually.
I've always loved the elderly,but I really fell in love, not
so much with the day in and dayout, but with the people and the
opportunities that I had totell them about Jesus at the end
of life.
Bob Fleischmann (04:39):
Is there a lot?
I know there's other businessesthat will do like, for example,
we have my wife and I havelong-term care insurance, and so
they always talk about, well,we can bring people out, you
know, and I'm never quite surewhat all they do, but is yours?
Does your what you do integrateinto something like that, or is
it Okay?
(05:00):
Yeah?
Amber Albee Swenson (05:00):
Yeah, so as a private elderly companion,
the first client that I had wasin the nursing home, as I said,
but then I went into people'shomes and helped them get out of
bed in the morning or go to bedat night, do all their cares so
that they could stay in theirhome.
There was one client that I hadthat I went three times a week
and bathed him, did his laundry,made sure he had clean clothes
(05:23):
on, shaved him, that type ofthing.
It's mostly the private elderlycompanion is mostly to
facilitate so that people canstay in their homes or
apartments as long as possible,and there usually is a point
that that doesn't work anymore.
You know, when they can nolonger help stand up and they
need more of the equipment thatwe can't, you know, lift them
out of bed or carry them, thenthey sometimes end up and they
(05:45):
need more of the equipment thatwe can't, you know, lift them
out of bed or carry them.
Then they sometimes end upgoing into a facility, but it
just kind of keeps them at homea little bit longer.
Christa Potratz (05:51):
Well, your talk at the conference, at the
convention.
It talked about, I guess,essentially maybe preparing to
die or just this idea of what wecan do in terms of thinking
about the end of life, and youbroke it up really into three
(06:11):
different categories, one beingwhat we can do when we're not
there yet, and then going intowhat we can do when we're taking
care of somebody who's elderly,and then what we can do if it's
ourself.
So I'd like to start with thefirst area.
When you were talking aboutwhat you can do if you are not
(06:34):
there yet, somebody maybe likemyself, in their 40s, or
somebody who just doesn't havethat on their radar yet- Yep.
Amber Albee Swenson (06:45):
So for all of us it's such a good idea to
eat well, get sleep, watch oursugar intake, exercise, and you
know.
Those are things that we hearall the time.
You hear it and you know it,but you think, ah, it's not that
big of a deal, this donut,whatever.
You know it's instantgratification and yet it
(07:11):
actually becomes significantly abigger deal as you get to the
point where you're not able todo things for yourself anymore.
So if you maintain a healthyweight, it's going to be easier
for you to get around and keepwalking and it's also going to
be easier for other people tohelp you.
That actually may keep you inyour home longer.
If you're a normal, healthyweight and your family can help
you get in and out of bed, canhelp you get in and out of the
chair and you can use a walker,you might be able to stay in
(07:34):
your home longer than if you areobese, overweight and no one in
the family can help you.
We now know that sleeping playsa huge role in decision making
and how you function throughoutthe day, how you handle things.
So when you're very sleepdeprived, you're not able to
think as clearly.
And yet, for some reason whenwe're young, we seem to think,
(07:57):
oh man, just grab some morecoffee, grab another Red Bull,
grab a Mountain Dew, it's allokay.
No, when your body is tellingyou that you're tired, that's
your clue that you're trying todo too much.
You need to slow down.
You need to get the rest thatyour body needs.
So, eating well, sleeping,exercise really important.
And in fact we saw this all thetime at the nursing home.
(08:19):
You know, people think thatit's really mean to make people
walk down to go have lunch orwhatever.
We were actually trying to keepthem mobile as long as possible
, because as long as you canwalk, you can walk into the
bathroom, you can do thosethings, and once you are unable
to be mobile anymore, now youhave to wait for people to help
you with everything.
So, unlike the American versionof retirement, which is you
(08:43):
know, oh man, you've done it all, now just sit and relax.
And no, the truth is, as longas you are able to use your body
, use it.
Take the extra steps to getmore exercise so that you stay
in shape.
Bob Fleischmann (08:56):
I remember a few years ago when we were
taking care of Diane's father.
He was living in independentliving and his father, he was
living in independent living.
He was in his 90s and he wascomplaining about the difficulty
with Parkinson's of being ableto move around, and so he was
pitching the VA to get himselfan electric wheelchair.
So we really were kind of onhis team.
(09:18):
You know we were all rying, youknow we should get it.
It took like a year and a half,but he finally got it.
We get it.
We take him a year and a half,but he finally got it.
We get it.
We take him to his firstdoctor's appointment.
The doctor said well, that wasprobably the worst thing you
could have done for him.
Yeah, because now he'll have noincentive at all to force
himself to keep moving, get upand walk around.
Amber Albee Swenson (09:38):
That's exactly right.
Bob Fleischmann (09:39):
Yeah, and it really is true.
I live in a two-story house andI growl every time I go
upstairs downstairs andeverything.
Amber Albee Swenson (09:53):
And yet, at the same time, I'm thinking,
I'm investing into the future.
You are and that's actually howI try to get people to think of
it is, instead of being grumpyabout it.
Thank God that you can.
If you live long enough, therewill be a day you can't it.
Thank God that you can.
If you live long enough, therewill be a day you can't.
And once you get to that point,it's amazing how many people
say, oh, I would give anythingto be able to go up and down the
steps, or I would give anythingto be able to walk to the
(10:16):
dining room.
And so, instead of complainingand grumbling, oh, I have to do
this, no, you get to.
Bob Fleischmann (10:23):
So you got people when they're Crystal's
advanced age.
You got people who are justit's just not on their radar and
so it's just a reminder to behealthy and so forth.
On a practical level, how doesfamily become an obstacle to
what you're doing?
So what kind of challenges doyou encounter with the family
(10:45):
when you're trying to get theminto a mindset that caregiving
starts early?
You need to keep moving, keepactive, and then there becomes a
time where you have to makesome changes.
Amber Albee Swenson (10:56):
Yeah, I think one of the biggest things
is that a lot of Americans don'tlike to think that taking care
of anyone is their issue.
If mom and dad can't do itanymore, just take them to the
nursing home and someone elseshould do it.
And the first obstacle that wehave to get over is the fact
that it is our responsibility.
Our parents took care of uswhen we were younger and as they
(11:19):
age and they need help, whetherit's just trips to the grocery
store or maybe they don't driveso well at night anymore, drive
so well at night anymore and soinstead of complaining and
saying, you know, I don't havetime for this, no, this is your
responsibility, so let's work itout.
So the first obstacle is ourown selfishness, I think, and
then also realizing it's such adelicate balance and this is I
(11:42):
was very open and honest when Iwas speaking.
This is messy.
This is not an exact science.
What works for one familycertainly doesn't work for the
next, and it can get verydifficult.
When my mom had to quit driving, we knew she needed to quit
driving.
We knew it for a while.
It was still really a challenge.
There were many, manydiscussions.
(12:04):
There were many conversationstrying to convince her mom, it's
not about you, it's about otherpeople on the road.
It's not that we want to takesomething away from you, we just
want to make sure that otherpeople are safe and I am more
than happy to come and get you.
So all you have to do is call.
Well, you say that and thenyour mom calls five minutes
(12:25):
before you have a podcast andyou're like well, I can't
actually come now.
And she said, well, but youtold me you would come anytime.
Well, mom, I can come in anhour and a half.
I just can't come right now.
There's so many delicatesituations here and there's so
much give and take, and it'sreally about learning to work
together and get through thestruggle together.
Christa Potratz (12:46):
Yeah, no, and I think you know that ties in
nicely too to the next pointwhere you were talking about
what you do for caring for anelderly person, and I love how
you mentioned just that.
It's not a just an easy thing.
And I think also another thingis just every family is
different too in that aspect.
(13:08):
Anything else on that subjectthat really, that you'd like to
mention too?
Amber Albee Swenson (13:14):
Yeah, so my mom has Alzheimer's.
It has been probably one of thebiggest learning experiences
that I've had since doing eldercare, because when it's your own
mother, it's a totallydifferent thing.
When it's your own spouse, it'sa very different thing.
You can work doing this withpeople that you have no
relationship with, and it's avery, very different thing when
(13:37):
it's someone you love, and whenthe relationship is different,
you know someone else mightlisten to me a whole lot easier
than my own mother, and so itbecomes a challenge.
But I decided early on my goalswith my mother is to make her
feel loved and safe.
So perfection goes out thewindow.
The perfect ideal this is howyou should live doesn't always
(14:01):
make it, doesn't matter.
You know it's much like whenyou, I had four children.
So when I had four small kids,was the house always clean?
Nope, it wasn't.
Did kids get baths every night?
No, they did not.
Were there nights that theywent to bed and they threw up in
their bed.
Yes, there was.
So again, you have this idealthat you would like to see, but
(14:23):
at the end of the day, for me mygoals were safe and loved.
If mom felt safe and lovedtoday, my goals were safe and
loved.
If mom felt safe and lovedtoday, even if I didn't get her
to change her clothes, even ifshe didn't get the shower, even
if whatever, then I call that awin.
So that was my main focus.
And then also just rememberingwhen you are caretaking, you are
(14:43):
their advocate.
There is a time that they can'tspeak up for themselves, and
it's our job to speak up forthem.
Sometimes that's withhealthcare workers, when we say,
hey, look, she's really beenstruggling with this for a while
.
I think we need medication, orcould you at least take a look?
Could we get in for an x-ray,could we please, you know?
So sometimes it's withhealthcare workers, sometimes
(15:04):
it's with neighbors or otherpeople who are giving them a
hard time.
Your mom walks by my house andthe dog barks or whatever she
doesn't.
She's doing it five times a day.
She used to walk the dog once.
Why is this happening?
She probably forgot she walkedthe dog.
So this is what we're dealingwith.
You just have to be an advocatefor the person when they are no
(15:26):
longer able to speak up forthemselves, which is right out
of Proverbs 31.
Speak up for those who can'tspeak up for themselves.
Christa Potratz (15:33):
What do you do if you just feel, maybe, like
it's getting to be too much?
What is maybe some advice asfar as places to reach out to or
how you maybe even can eventell if it is something that you
really maybe needs someadditional help with?
Amber Albee Swenson (15:55):
Yeah.
So the first thing to note I amnot the primary caregiver for
my mother.
My father is, and so if you'rejust a secondary role, one thing
that's good to note is thefirst cry for help does not mean
there's going to be automaticchange.
So just because dad calls andhe's like Amber, I don't know if
I can do this anymore, doesn'tmean we get everybody together
and put mom somewhere.
(16:15):
Sometimes it's just having abad day, much like if you're a
mom, or even if you were a dadat one point, and you have a
hard day with the kids, you'relike I don't know if I can do
this, like this is way too much.
So knowing that the first cryfor help might not mean a
drastic change is in store, buta lot of times we can sense when
(16:35):
this is getting to be too much,when the load is heavier, when
we're not sleeping, when we'renot able to take care of
ourselves.
And I think the first and mostimportant thing to realize is
that does not mean that you area failure.
So many people struggle thinkingoh man, I wanted to take care
of mom.
You know, I never wanted to puther somewhere.
(16:56):
I never wanted her to have togo, you know what, if God allows
her to live long enough.
There are times that that'smore than you can do.
We have a whole staff at afacility, but, like I said too,
it doesn't mean that someone hasto go somewhere right away.
There are other steps that youcan take.
First, you can ask people tocome into your home to help you,
and sometimes that's lightcleaning, sometimes it's giving
(17:20):
you a break, making sure thatsomeone's there so you can go
out and do the grocery shopping,or so that you can go have
coffee with a friend, or so youcan go to the gym or go to your
dentist appointment.
So there are different levelsof care, and sometimes it's just
a matter of moving into anassisted living place and then
going from there.
There are so many differentlevels of care.
(17:41):
There's nursing home care,there's hospice care, there's
palliative care before hospicecare.
There's a lot of differentthings, and usually your primary
doctor is pretty good atgetting you lined up with the
resources you need for whateverstage you're at.
Christa Potratz (17:55):
Well, the final piece, then, that you talked
about was what to do if it's youyourself going through these
situations.
So what do you recommend?
So what do you?
Amber Albee Swenson (18:08):
recommend.
This is so hard and I think theman that the first person I
took care of, my very firstclient.
He was a retired pastor and Ilearned so much from him he was
no longer able to speak and Iused to joke with him that he
used all his words up.
God had given him a specificnumber of words he used all up
(18:29):
during all that time and so nowhe was left and thankfully I
must have had like 45 minutesermons.
I don't know, but I told himgood, good news for you.
I can speak for both of us, soI'll just keep talking and you
keep listening and we're in agood situation.
One of the things he did thatjust made a huge impact was he
smiled.
So he was not able to speak anylonger, but he smiled at the
(18:53):
staff all the time.
When they would ask a question,he would smile.
When you know they were aboutto do something, when they said
we're going to transfer you intobed now, he would smile.
He just smiled nonstop.
And your attitude when it comesto people taking care of you,
you do not realize how big of adeal that is, because caretaking
(19:13):
is hard and if you can at leastbe encouraging and smile, it
makes a huge difference.
People who have mentaldeficiencies that's not always
in their capability to do that,because they don't always know
what they're doing.
Always in their capability todo that because they don't
always know what they're doing.
But if it is, then just to beable to have that positive,
(19:34):
encouraging attitude.
Also, one of the things that Iwould definitely say is so
helpful for everyone, no matterwhat age you are, is start
talking right now to your family, about your desires and also
For me.
I've given my childrenpermission and my husband I've
said look, I don't expect you tobe able to take care of me, my
(19:56):
whole to what so many in theprevious generation did, which
was don't you ever put me in anursing home, no matter what
(20:18):
happens, it's up to you.
You need to take care of me and, like I said, depending on the
weight of the person, depend onthe mental capacity, depending
on even their house.
If you have a split level house,it's pretty hard to take care
of people with a walker or awheelchair, you know.
If you're doing that, so justgiving your family the
permission to do what they needto do, to let them know that
(20:43):
you're okay with where you go.
I don't care where you go.
If you do go to a facility,there's a good chance there will
be something to complain aboutBecause, as far as I know,
there's no perfect place and nomatter where you go, there's
going to chance there will besomething to complain about
Because, as far as I know,there's no perfect place and no
matter where you go, there'sgoing to be good workers,
there's going to be really,really caring workers and
there's going to be people whogo to put their hours in and get
a paycheck, and so if you canrealize that it's not perfect
(21:08):
and get through that anyway,that's just such a help to your
family.
Bob Fleischmann (21:13):
And even if the loved one is in a facility, it
doesn't prevent you fromvisiting, from spending time
there.
There are just certain aspectsof it become more difficult to
handle, Right?
No?
Amber Albee Swenson (21:26):
and I would hope that people would continue
to see their loved ones,because I think as Christians we
have a huge role to play whenwe do have loved ones in the
nursing home or the skilled carefacility or a hospice house.
We bring the light with useverywhere we go, and I
certainly hope that we are doingdevotions with our parents or
(21:48):
our spouse, that people can hearus singing the songs, that they
can hear us praying with ourloved one before they eat.
A lot of times we bring thelight not just to our loved ones
, but to everyone there, whichis why I think it's a really
special ministry that Godentrusts us with if he puts us
(22:08):
in a place like that at the endof our life, because so many
people there need what we have.
So it's actually a blessing anda ministry that we're entrusted
with.
Christa Potratz (22:18):
Yeah, and that really rolls in nicely, too,
with something else.
I wanted to ask because a lotof the tips and things that
we've talked about are just goodfor anybody, whether you are a
Christian or are taking care ofsomebody who is or isn't but
really wanted to talk aboutspecifically as a Christian,
(22:44):
what is the difference whenfacing death and how that plays
out in some of these things thatwe're talking about plays out
in some of these things thatwe're talking about.
Amber Albee Swenson (23:00):
Yes, Well, when it gets to be time for
death, almost everybody isscared.
That's just a given, becausewe've never done it before and
we don't get to unlikechildbirth, which is another
thing the first time you face it, you have all these women that
come to you and say I know it'sgoing to be hard, but you're
going to.
And if you do this, this, butwhen it comes to death, we don't
have people coming back andsaying, well, this is how you do
it, If you just do this, you'llbe fine.
And so there is fear almostevery time.
(23:24):
I don't think I've ever seenanybody that wasn't at least
somewhat questioning, even whenthey were a Christian, which is
why it's so important, Like Bobsaid, we don't just leave our
loved ones in the nursingfacility, but we're there to
reassure them, to remind them ofthe promises of God, to pray
with them, to sing with them.
(23:46):
I have seen people who I did notthink could hear.
I was absolutely sure they weretoo far into the death process
to be able to hear me, but Godshowed me that people hear,
Because there was a woman whohad not been conscious for at
least 24 hours.
She was doing the death rattle,which is a very heavy breathing
(24:06):
, and we went in to roll her andchange her and the other
nursing assistant left and Ijust kneeled down next to her
bed and started saying theLord's Prayer and her lips
started moving and I was shockedto see this woman who I really
felt was in her own subconscious, comatose, whatever.
But that was just such a greatreminder that our job, as our
(24:29):
loved ones face death, is toremind them of the promises of
God where they're going, makesure that they know.
This is not the time to settlethe score.
So if you are remembering whenmom didn't give you the gift
when you were eight that youreally wanted, it's not the time
to lean down next to her bedand say, mom, you know I've
never forgiven you for notgiving me that baby doll.
(24:49):
That's all gone right now,where you're just grace, you are
about to face the throne of Godand Jesus paid for it all and
there was nothing you had to do.
Everything is forgiven.
Go in grace.
Mom, Dad, whoever, your wife,your husband, I'll see you in
heaven, and that's one of thethings that was the most fun to
(25:12):
me is when I was able to say topeople I'll see you in heaven,
and they were able to respondand say I'll see you there.
We all want to face deathknowing where we're going and
that it isn't dependent on usBecause, again, Satan is pretty
good at the end of our life ofreminding us of all the things
we did wrong, all the things wecould have done better,
reminding us of all the thingswe did wrong, all the things we
(25:33):
could have done better, and sowe need our family and our loved
ones there to really reassureus.
Christa Potratz (25:44):
Yeah, I found that really interesting too.
In your talk too, you mentionedjust the importance of raising
Christian children, even if it'sjust for that reminder at the
end of your life, when you needthat the most.
My father, back in October of2022, had a sudden stroke and
was in the hospital for a fewdays before he passed away, and
(26:07):
we at one point were able to geta bunch of hymnals in there and
sing the songs at his bedsideand pray with a pastor that was
there, and I just kept thinkingthis is what my dad would have
wanted, like if he could havewritten how he would have died.
(26:27):
It would have been with hisfamily around him, singing hymns
and sharing the gospel messagethere.
And you just, I mean, you justdon't think about that in the
moment, but you just lean intowhat you know, and you know that
(26:47):
in a time like that, when youdon't know the future anything,
you just lean into what you knowto be true, with God.
Amber Albee Swenson (26:57):
Absolutely, and there is no time that is
too early to start talking toyour children about death.
I talk about death all the timewith my children.
I try to make it as common aspossible.
We brought them to funerals thewhole time.
They were growing up when theiryou know grandpas died or
whatever, they were included.
We didn't try to hide it fromthem and I've tried to make it
(27:20):
very normal and I've tried totell them these things, and I've
also said to each of them Iexpect you at my funeral, in the
front row, singing as loud asyou can possibly be, because I
am not dead, I am every bitalive, you know.
And just to make it a definitepart of the conversation, I
think, too, one of the thingsthat I don't think we realize is
(27:42):
that a lot of people in thenursing homes don't have access
to a pastor.
So maybe they haven't been tochurch for a long time because
they've been homebound and thecongregation that they used to
you used to be part of, has hada new pastor.
This new pastor doesn't knowthem and, man, I prayed with and
(28:02):
recited scripture, the 23rdPsalm or whatever, with a lot of
people because there was no oneelse coming, and so, if you
want to talk about a ministrythat is very lacking, if there
are retired pastors out there,oh, our people in nursing homes
need you.
A lot of people in the nursinghomes need you.
Bob Fleischmann (28:27):
What were the greatest challenges you faced?
When you've walked into a home,walked into a nursing home
setting and you're saying ifonly someone had done this or if
only this were a little bitdifferent, this would be so much
better to talk with them.
I know as a pastor who servedcongregants and went to nursing
(28:48):
homes and so forth.
Sometimes it was the way thingswere set up in the nursing home
, sometimes it was the way thefamily acted or didn't act.
What do you see as seriousmistakes that are made that
hindered the good that you coulddo in this kind of ministry?
Amber Albee Swenson (29:07):
I worked with amazing families.
Every single family that Iworked with was so open and so,
if I would call and say thisneeds to be done, they were very
open to that.
I think the biggest challengeand this isn't in nursing homes
or whatever.
I think our biggest challengeis not taking the Word of God
(29:27):
seriously all throughout ourlife.
And the biggest challenge Ialways had I never hesitate.
I learned the hard way to nothesitate to talk about Jesus,
because there were people that Ithought I would have time with
and I'd come back to work andthey had died.
And that happened a few timesand I got bold very quickly
(29:48):
because I realized I had missedmy opportunity.
And I think the biggestchallenge is for us Christians
to think that the person whosits at the table with mom might
not want to hear the Word ofGod, and I think that's a silly,
silly thing to think.
If they don't want to hear theWord of God, they can leave.
We can be asked to go in theroom.
Stop being so afraid ofoffending the gospel is
(30:13):
offensive.
But people are going to die andthis might be the last chance
they get to hear the word of God, and maybe you will never have
the experience of taking care ofsomeone and learning to really
like them and then coming backthe next time and they're dead
and realizing you missed youropportunity.
But if that happens, I hope youget bold, real fast.
(30:35):
Whether it's your spouse that'sin there, or a sibling or a
parent or whatever, do nothesitate to pray out loud, to
sing songs, to ask if a worshipservice can be played on an iPad
.
We did that when families wouldsay, hey, could you please do
the live stream on Sundaymorning for this person.
(30:57):
We would bring them out intothe dining room, play it on an
iPad, and it is amazing how someof the other people would come
and sit around to listen becausethey didn't get church and so
don't.
I think we need to get overourselves.
Go into that facility, knowthat you're the light.
Ask what you can do.
I was asked more than once doyou want to come back and do
(31:20):
devotions with people?
I mean, do you want to?
Just, people want it, a lot ofpeople want it and there aren't
enough pastors.
And so just get over your fearof saying the wrong thing, get
over your fear of thinking youmight offend people.
There were people that when wewould have hymn sings at their
nursing home, we would go aroundto every room Do you want to go
(31:42):
out?
We're going to sing hymns.
Today there were people thatwould say no, no, no, I'm not
going out, I'm not going to dothat, but leave the door open.
They're hearing, they canworship in their room.
So I think the greatestobstacle is actually ourselves.
Bob Fleischmann (31:58):
I agree yeah.
Christa Potratz (32:00):
Well, amber, it's been wonderful to talk to
you today about this topic, andI would just love it, too, if
you could just tell people howthey can reach you and also just
maybe share some of the thingsthat you're working on and
upcoming stuff you have too.
Amber Albee Swenson (32:17):
So the easiest way to get in touch with
me is amber at timeofgraceorgthat's just the easiest way to
remember my email and I'mworking on all kinds of projects
to get people into the Word, tomake it easy for people to get
into the Word and to share theWord with their under-church or
unchurched neighbors or friends.
(32:38):
So my whole goal for the comingyear is to write Bible studies
that people want to invite otherpeople into their home or to a
coffee shop or to their churchand say, hey, I know you haven't
been to church in a while, butI want you to study this with me
.
The evidence is overwhelmingthat when we ask people to join
(33:01):
us at church, like three-fourthsof them say yes.
So we need to stop being soself-conscious and everything.
We need to stop being soself-conscious and everything.
So my whole goal is to creatematerial, whether it's podcasts
or Bible studies or I go to alot of churches and speak and
those events too.
(33:22):
I ask the organizers always.
I say you know I love coming tothe church to speak.
I'm super happy to speak tolifelong Christians, but please
ask everybody to bring aneighbor or friend or a relative
or someone who might just be,you know, looking for hope, and
so that's my goal hands down, toget as many people into the
(33:42):
Word as possible, because that'sour hope, that's our joy,
that's our peace and that's whatall of us crave.
Christa Potratz (33:49):
Well, thank you so much, Amber.
We really appreciate it, and wejust want to thank all of our
listeners for joining us today,and you can reach us at
lifechallengesus, and we lookforward to having you back next
time.
Thanks a lot, bye.
Paul Snamiska (34:04):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
the Life Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
(34:24):
you to know we're here to help.
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(34:47):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom parentorganization.
Please visitchristianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
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