May 27, 2025 • 37 mins
What happens when scientific advancement outpaces our ethical frameworks? As Christian Life Resources celebrates 42 years of ministry, this compelling discussion explores how a once primarily pro-life organization evolved to address the complex moral questions of our time and prepare for what's ahead.
The conversation takes us from CLR's humble beginnings—marked by a watershed moment when U.S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop spoke at their 1984 convention—to today's expanded mission addressing everything from surrogate parenting to end-of-life care. National Director Bob Fleischmann candidly shares how the organization matured from focusing solely on fetal development arguments to helping Christians navigate ethical dilemmas through a biblical lens.
Looking forward, three critical frontiers demand our attention: revolutionary procreation technologies including artificial wombs, CRISPR gene editing that blurs the line between healing and enhancement, and artificial intelligence that's reshaping human interaction. These advancements arrive amid deepening social fragmentation, where truth increasingly becomes whatever opinion garners the most likes.
Yet amidst these challenges, CLR maintains unwavering hope grounded in Scripture. The organization is preparing for the future with exciting initiatives: succession planning for leadership transition, a comprehensive "Debunk" series addressing common misconceptions about life issues, an AI-enhanced website launching this fall, and expansion of their New Beginnings - A Home for Mothers and elder care ministries.
Have questions about navigating today's complex ethical landscape from a Christian perspective? Visit lifechallenges.us to explore our resources or contact us directly. Remember, while the challenges change, our foundation remains the same: honoring and glorifying God in all we do.
SHOW NOTES:
Find strength and courage in your faith at this year’s FEARLESS FAITH Conference. Inspired by Joshua 1:9, “Be strong and courageous,” join us for presentations on navigating life’s storms, understanding God’s peace, and engaging in crucial conversations about euthanasia, anorexia, abortion, prenatal genetic testing, and more. Hear powerful journeys of faith through loss and hope. Don’t miss this empowering event! $50 in person or $40 virtual. Register now: https://christianliferesources.com/resources/events/2025-conference/
Find strength and courage in your faith at this year’s FEARLESS FAITH Conference. Inspired by Joshua 1:9, “Be strong and courageous,” join us Saturday, September 13, at Kettle Moraine Lutheran High School in Jackson, Wisconsin, for presentations on navigating life’s storms, understanding God’s peace, and engaging in crucial conversations about euthanasia, anorexia, abortion, prenatal genetic testing, and more. Hear powerful journeys of faith through loss and hope. Don’t miss this empowering event! $50 in person or $40 virtual. Register now: https://christianliferesources.com/resources/events/2025-conference/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bob Fleischmann (00:19):
On today's episode.
I mean, we're already facingthat.
Now you know, when you havepeople who are suspended from
sports for using steroids orsomething like that, you know
where they have an unfairadvantage.
Well, crispr holds thepotential of giving you all
sorts of advantages.
Paul Snamiska (00:37):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
From Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (01:09):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz and I'm heretoday with Pastors Bob
Fleischman and Jeff Samuelson,and this month we are
celebrating the anniversary ofChristian Life Resources.
Bob, what year is it?
Bob Fleischmann (01:24):
This would be 42.
Christa Potratz (01:25):
42.
Okay, good, all right Withanniversaries too.
A lot of times we think aboutthings in the past and things
that we've achieved over thecourse of I mean for Christian
Life Resources for these 42years.
But we also, too, want to lookto the future as well.
(01:45):
But thinking about the pastfirst, bob, can you fill us in
on maybe just some of thehighlights or things that maybe
even you and the staff here havebeen kind of reflecting on this
year for the anniversary?
Bob Fleischmann (02:01):
Perhaps one of the big things that happened is
we had the US Surgeon Generalspeak for a convention.
I'm trying to remember the yearI think it was 1984 that C
Evercoop spoke for us.
I just remember it was held atWisconsin Lutheran High School
but we had gone in withMarquette University.
They were looking to bring himin as a speaker and so we kind
(02:23):
of split the plane flight andstuff.
We weren't allowed to pay himbecause he was employed by the
government, but it was a highpoint we felt pretty good about
that, Kind of got into a cycleof high-profile speakers, which
of course made for bigconventions.
But really the organization tookoff when we established
(02:43):
full-time staffing in 1988,which is why we have full-time
staffing.
I mean, up until 1988, from1983 to 88, we were all
volunteer and pretty muchgetting hardly anything done,
Because you know, I was a parishpastor in a mission church, the
other board members were allfull-time employed in different
(03:06):
things.
We had great ideas and no timeto do it, and so when we got the
funding to go full-time, wellthen we started doing things and
right now, to be honest, Ithink we're really acknowledging
the anniversary by lookingforward.
We've got some big plans, whatwe want to do.
Christa Potratz (03:28):
Christian Life Resources.
I think it is interesting howit did get its I don't know
formation really, maybe is Idon't know if that's the best
word but its start in thepro-life movement.
Its start in the pro-lifemovement.
(03:49):
But over the years you've takenon a lot more issues than just
the abortion issue too.
Bob Fleischmann (03:51):
Well, that's part of the reason why I want to
mention Coop is when Coop spokeat our convention it was on the
heels of the 1982 baby doughsituation in Bloomington,
indiana, where a child was bornwith an opening in the esophagus
so the child couldn't be fed,couldn't take food without that
being repaired.
And that could have beenrepaired.
(04:13):
But the family decided thechild would not lead a worthy
life and decided not toauthorize the surgery.
So the child was put in theback end of the neonatal care
unit and I remember at ourconvention Coop made the
statement.
It's a small leap in logic,going from taking life inside of
the womb to taking life outsideof the womb, and that probably
(04:36):
would be a good umbrellastatement for how the
organization began to expand.
I took the office of nationaldirector on July 1st 1988.
I think it was within five daysor six days.
We had been asked to deal withis some birth control
abortifacient?
And then the secondnon-abortion related issue was a
(05:04):
church out in California had awoman who wanted to become a
surrogate parent and shouldsurrogate parenting be a good
thing?
Even though she wasn't married,but she wanted to bear a child
for someone else.
And then I think the thirdreally big issue was Jack
Kevorkian and what was going on.
And I wasn't aware of it at thetime, but the head of
communications for Wells wasPastor James Schaefer.
(05:27):
We called him Jeb Schaefer andunknown to me that whenever
anybody was asking the Synod forwhat is our position on, and
then you fill in the blank, jebwould always say, well, we now
have this organization that cananswer and I remember we even
got a PETA request what is oursinister position on people for
(05:50):
the ethical treatment of animals?
And that's when I began torealize that something was afoot
and then Jeb had told me whathe had been doing.
But there is a common threadthat goes from taking life
inside of the womb to taking allsorts of life, and that common
thread has to do with mankindsupplanting God as the authors
(06:14):
of their own fate, the authorsof their own destiny.
And that has really, I think,when I look at it from a staff
perspective today, when I lookto the future, I think that
that's the area at least for mytime remaining in my office will
be to try to keep emphasizingthat common thread.
We can change the laws, but thelaws don't change the hearts.
(06:37):
We could protest, but sometimesa picture of an aborted child
and all that kind of stuff doeshave an effect, without a doubt.
Sometimes when you see it forthe first time, you never
realized what was going on.
But change, especiallyGod-pleasing change, is only
rooted in faith, and faithdoesn't happen by flashing up
pictures and protesting andchanging laws.
(06:59):
Faith is the proclamation ofthe gospel.
So I've tried to in the lastfew years very strongly embrace
our mission vision statements oftrying to use life and family
issues as bridges to talk aboutJesus Christ.
Christa Potratz (07:15):
Yeah, I think it's interesting and a good
reminder too, because I thinkyou know, even as I sit down
here today, I'm like, okay, likelet's talk about the issues.
Let's talk about the issuesthat Christian Life Resources
covers.
Let's talk about, you know,what we think for the future.
But just remembering, like howyou're saying, bob, I mean it
really goes above the issues,into how we are going to
(07:39):
communicate these concepts in aChristian-loving way and what we
are ultimately using these andlike the bridge building, and
they are issues in which you canbecome far more ideological
than you could be theological.
Bob Fleischmann (08:11):
So, in other words, it's like we're pulling
out all the stops to pass thislegislation, we're pulling out
all the stops to make thisstatement, to elect this
candidate, and those are allgood things, and we do
personally I mean my wife and Ifinancially support those
efforts.
If any of you have heard mespeak, I've always mentioned to
(08:32):
you I do think you should besupporting your local Right to
Life affiliate.
I think Christians should begetting involved in politics and
so forth, but you should neverlose sight of how real change
takes place and that's a heartministry.
And it pains me when I see evenour pastors sometimes sound
(08:52):
more ideological thantheological.
There's a deeper problem thanjust the fact that a woman wants
to take the life of her unbornchild.
That's systemic of somethingelse going on, and that's where
Christians should be, not justthe pastor, but all Christians
should be, because you all havethe gospel and that's what needs
(09:14):
to be happening.
Christa Potratz (09:15):
It is interesting, though, just all of
the different topics and thingsthat Christian Life Resources
covers too.
I know I've told this storybefore, but just when I first
started coming on to CLR and thevolunteer role and okay, you
know, bob, what should I do?
Oh, just, you know, read thewebsite, krista, and I was just
(09:40):
blown away by, I mean, christianLife Resources.
Well, who would have thought ithas a lot of resources?
You know about a thousand or soarticles that I found when I
went on there.
That was really my firstintroduction just to the wide
variety of topics that ChristianLife Resources covers.
And you know now I mean we havethis, just all this information
(10:04):
, in our podcast too, like thedifferent topics that we've
covered over the years.
Now, I mean anywhere from likeIVF to organ donation, to birth
control, family issues.
There's just so many differentthings that Christian Life
Resources has touched on, so Iguess you know, with some of it,
like in looking toward thefuture now, I mean, what like
(10:28):
man, like what other topics arethere?
Bob Fleischmann (10:30):
Well, I do see three main areas that are going
to for the remainder of mylifetime, I think are going to
really drift front and centerFor the remainder of my lifetime
, I think, in a really driftfront and center, and that would
be in the area procreation,which is just innovations in how
to bring about children.
There's progress made onartificial wombs, there's
progress made on male birthcontrol.
(10:53):
There's progress in that wholearea of procreation.
I think we're going to see somepretty dramatic changes.
Area procreation I think we'regoing to see some pretty
dramatic changes.
I think CRISPR is going to beanother area where we're going
to run into some very difficultbioethical issues between the
line that's drawn betweencurative and enhancement.
I mean, we're already facingthat now.
(11:15):
You know when you have peoplewho are suspended from sports
for using steroids or somethinglike that, you know where they
have an unfair advantage.
Well, crispr holds thepotential of giving you all
sorts of advantages, but I alsothink there's going to be
problems there.
And then the third thing thatgets a lot of attention on the
bioethical journals is the roleof artificial intelligence.
(11:37):
But those are the three that Ithink you're going to see come
up in many different ways, allthree of them.
I see very positive thingscoming from them and very scary
things.
Jeff Samelson (11:48):
Without really predicting particular issues or
anything like that.
I think just more in terms oftrends and what's kind of going
to be in the background ofeverything and complicating
everything there.
I'd like to be optimistic andsay everything's going to be in
the background of everything andcomplicating everything there.
I'd like to be optimistic andsay everything's going to be
getting better, butunfortunately I don't think
there's there's too much causefor that kind of optimism.
(12:09):
What Christians need to be inan organization like CLR needs
to be is prepared for things toget a lot worse in many respects
.
Just some of the broad trendsin terms of like socially, I
think that the loneliness andthe disconnectedness and the
social fragmentation we see now,I think it's just going to get
(12:30):
worse.
I don't really see signs thatit's improving.
There are some people, you knowpeople are calling attention to
it and doing certain things,but I don't really see a whole
lot that's going to bring peopletogether in the way they used
to be together, and a lot ofthat is driven by technology,
which is another area that'sgoing to be driving a lot of
stuff.
And, leaving AI aside, for themoment, what we're seeing in
(12:52):
terms of people's interactionswith tech is more and more
reliance on it for everything,not just to simplify tasks in
their lives or to lessen theirworkload, but also to give them
pleasure, especially on socialmedia.
You know the way peopleidentify according to their
(13:13):
amusements, and you know I'm agamer, those kinds of things and
people will identify.
You know it's like I'm an earlyadopter.
You know I'm the kind of personwho drives this kind of
electric car and things likethat.
(13:34):
And politically, which isprobably what I pay most
attention to, sadly, I thinkthat the partisanship and
polarization that we see todayis just likely to be getting
worse and worse, as people andpoliticians just kind of dig in
and don't really open up anymoreto considering the other side.
Or maybe I'm wrong on this oranything.
(13:56):
I'm wrong on this or anything.
And as far as the pro-life andpro-family movements, I think
that's eventually going to causea reckoning of sorts for them.
You're going to have to face upto the reality that there are
going to be a whole lot ofbattles that just aren't worth
fighting anymore.
They could throw as manyresources as they wanted at it
and it still wouldn't budgeanything politically, so they're
(14:19):
going to end up having to turnaround and shore up and defend
what they already have, what'salready theirs, and try to
protect that more than gettingout uh to try to do things that
uh are not currently in thepro-life or pro-family um column
.
And I just I guess one of theother changes is that things
(14:39):
that we previously thought of asrelatively permanent
politically in terms of thepeople who are on our side, the
people we can count on forsupport, that has shifted a lot
just in the last five years andI think that that's also going
to be causing this kind ofreckoning and re-evaluation of
things.
Christa Potratz (14:59):
Well, now that I'm thoroughly depressed, Jeff.
Paul Snamiska (15:04):
Hey, that's what I was aiming for.
Christa Potratz (15:05):
Kind of a doubter there.
I think this is maybe a goodtransition then, with Christian
life resources too and the workthat can be done.
I mean it sounds like you know,just from what you explained
and then also just from how Jeffhas illustrated things kind of
going that there really is a lotof potential opportunity for
(15:28):
Christian life resources toreally keep going.
Bob Fleischmann (15:32):
I guess you know part of it is just like
being realistic when Jesus saidbecause of the increase of
wickedness or lawlessness, thelove of most will go cold.
Well, all you have to do is sitstill for a moment and think
about well, what must that looklike?
And we think progressively thatit should be worse today than
(15:52):
it was yesterday, and it'll beworse tomorrow than it is today,
and I would say that seems tobe fairly accurate.
I mean, there were things goingon during the time of Christ
and the Apostle Paul, when theywere on earth, that were pretty
bad.
You know, the things of Neroand things of Rome that were
going on are bad by ourstandards.
The other thing too and I justused this reference in a
(16:16):
correspondence with someone thathad asked a question and that
is we're told that sometimespeople get to the point of
calling good evil and evil good.
And so what does that look like?
And again, I look around andI'm going oh my goodness, we're
there, some of the thingsthey're doing, and I think, kind
(16:37):
of at the risk of making youeven more depressed, to get on
to Jeff Spandwagon here that is,if you are living your
Christian faith correctly, andespecially when we get into
these life and family issues andyou find it's going well for
you, I'm pretty convinced you'redoing it wrong because you
don't want to be combative.
(16:58):
When you're standing yourground, because you should
always be looking be combativewhen you're standing your ground
because you should always belooking to bridge build.
But Jesus said they hated me,they're going to hate you.
I mean, it's just the reality.
And it is funny because whenyou're trying to navigate a ship
, we try to do it, clr you'retrying to do it with the full
awareness that sometimes youfeel like you're the captain of
(17:20):
the Titanic.
You know is that, except thatGod still promises his blessing.
He still promises to watch overus and to work all things out
for good, even the things thatlook like they're going south in
a bad way, that somehow they'regoing to work out good for his
people, and we trust that.
(17:41):
But in order for me to do thatas the national director, my
biggest challenge, like right atthis moment, is to get people
to recognize there is only onereliable standard of truth and
that is Scripture.
Beyond that, everybody's justdealing with opinion.
I just wrote an article as partof our Debunk series in which I
(18:04):
talk about.
There's a section in which Italk about that we literally
just surrender objective truthfor an opinion that gets the
most likes.
Likes and somehow I don't knowif we're just getting that daft
that we begin to believe thatthat just because people agree
(18:30):
with me, agree with Scripture.
Carl Truman, who's one of myfavorite contemporary writers,
religious writers, aPresbyterian professor, but he
writes this article about hewrote this little editorial
piece where he said you know,I'm really not interested in
your opinion.
You know, if I'm wrong onsomething, if I'm wrong
biblically on something, I haveno interest in being wrong.
Correct me, but correct mebased upon an object of
(18:51):
authority.
If all you're going to do isshare with me your opinion,
don't waste our time.
And the problem with what wehave today, in our climate today
, and that is social media, issocial media has a way of
venerating opinion to the levelof objective truth and we
(19:12):
declared, or we sense it to be,that by the number of likes we
get and the number of followerswe have and that kind of stuff,
and I don't know, you know, whenyou figure that this world is
naturally opposed to God, youknow it's hostile to God, I
wouldn't find a lot of flatteryif a lot of people in the world
really get on your bandwagon.
Christa Potratz (19:34):
It's funny that you mentioned that too, because
I was just thinking every oncein a while I read something in
Scripture that I mean maybe I'veread a hundred times and I'm
just like, wow, that is just sotrue of now and it probably was
also true back then too.
But I'm just I believe it comesfrom Romans, the do not conform
to the ways of this world, andthat just really hit me.
(19:58):
I mean again, and just hearingyou talk too, bob, about like
how we are just we could get sozapped into what this world
tells us is true that we forgetwhat is actually true, and just
that whole thing about how, yeah, I mean we just we can't just
(20:18):
get sucked into this world andwhat it tells us.
Jeff Samelson (20:24):
I'll just add, going against my own prior
statements, a note of optimism,I guess.
Christa Potratz (20:32):
Thanks, Jeff.
Bob Fleischmann (20:32):
There is still heaven.
Jeff Samelson (20:36):
We've also got to be on the guard, you know,
always as Christians, againstany kind of what I've called
Christian fatalism, which isthat things are bad, they're
always going to be bad.
There's just no point, and youknow well that's not a biblical
attitude.
And he promised that ourprayers will be answered.
(20:58):
And he promised that when we dothe work there will be fruit.
It won't always be the fruitwe're looking for, but just
because the general arc ofhistory is heading to bad things
in an end doesn't mean thattomorrow necessarily is going to
be bad, and it doesn't meanthat we shouldn't be working and
(21:22):
praying and speaking andarguing and such to make
tomorrow and next year and thenext decade and the next
generation better than it istoday.
And if you look at history,countless examples of times when
things looked really bad butlargely through the work of
Christians, they got better.
Maybe not in all ways, but inmany ways.
(21:44):
And then the new responsibilityis to try to maintain what
you've got.
But there's nothing inScripture that says you can't
have shorter-term improvements,even while the general trend of
history is toward evil.
Bob Fleischmann (22:01):
A lot of times in staff meetings I always talk
about recalibration, which iswhat I think CLR is all about.
We're trying to basicallyrecalibrate Christians because,
kind of going back a little bitto what you were saying, Krista,
with being conformed to theworld, kind of going back a
little bit to what you weresaying, Krista, with being
(22:22):
conformed to the world, I thinkwe woefully underestimate how
worldly all of us have become,myself included.
And I've talked aboutRevelation 3 before in the
Church of Laodicea you do notrealize—you say I'm rich, I
don't need a thing.
You don't realize you'repitiful, poor, blind and naked.
And I did a deep dive into whatdoes secular history say about
(22:44):
Laodicea?
And Laodicea said that first ofall, it was very wealthy, it
was a very—it was a kind of aport area and it was very
wealthy.
But they also were very much ofI do my own thing.
And it was an earthquake-pronepart of Asia Minor.
And so they had a bigdestructive thing and Rome came
(23:05):
in and said, okay, we're goingto bring in some people, we're
going to do it.
And they said, no, no, we don'twant your help, we can do this
ourselves.
And it seems like that mentalityand that's from secular sources
had infiltrated into the churchand he said you somehow missed
the point.
And the point that I havetrouble, or I'm struggling with,
in getting people to realign to, is that how do you get
(23:28):
conformed to the world?
Well, the way you get conformedto the world is that their
values become your values, theirgoals become your goals, their
treasures become your treasures.
And the way you getrecalibrated is you got to
remind yourself why was Icreated in the first place?
And Scripture has a veryunworldly explanation or answer
(23:49):
to that, and that is to honorand glorify God.
That is why we exist.
We do not exist to get a career, we do not exist to become
wealthy, to be happy.
We exist to honor and glorifyGod.
And we do that within a careerand within a geographic location
and so forth.
(24:10):
And when you understand that, itthen begins to formulate how
you respond to the latestethical and bioethical
challenges that come your way,because you're looking at
everything and you begin to saywell, you start off by thinking
like the world, what would begood for the world?
You know we've talked aboutthat with CRISPR.
(24:30):
Oh, I'm not sure the world'sgood, ready for that, and
everything you know.
But really, you know, aChristian says how do I honor
and glorify God through this?
How do I honor?
And you begin to think aboutthe ethical choices you make in
life.
I'm dating, Do I have sexualactivity?
Well, okay, we can talk aboutthe dangers and all that kind of
stuff.
When we first started CLR, wewere talking about fetal
(24:53):
heartbeat and brainwaves andfingerprints and fetal
development, all that kind ofstuff.
And we have matured, I think,over the years to talk about why
are we here in the first place?
I don't destroy life because Icannot find in the destruction
of life a way to honor andglorify God.
And then I cannot find in beingsexually promiscuous, how do I
(25:19):
honor and glorify God?
So, when I'm faced with adecision, do we move in, live
together, do we get married?
But it's not just that Everyonewants to start on the wrong end
.
They always want to startwhat's your position on abortion
?
What's your position oncohabitation, on IVF and
everything, when really thefront end is we're talking about
(25:39):
honoring and glorifying God.
Now, how can I do it?
And so CLR really has tried,first of all, to help you
understand what's at play in anissue.
What does it mean to be asurrogate?
You know what's, the mechanismsand the biology and stuff
involved, but the fundamentalquestion remains the same how do
I honor and glorify God?
Christa Potratz (26:00):
question remains the same how do I honor
and glorify God?
Yeah, well, so then, alsothinking about the future of
Christian Life Resources, whatare maybe some plans for the
future?
Bob Fleischmann (26:13):
Well, I know that the board, the CLR board,
the National Board for ChristianLife Resources, is concerned
about succession planning.
So I've been doing this for youknow well, full-time since 1988
.
So I've been around a couple ofyears and so in that time, you
know, I've made a ton ofmistakes and hopefully have
(26:33):
learned from most of them, andso they're trying to figure out
a way how do we preserve some ofthat knowledge and then prepare
for the future.
And I know that we're talkingabout, you know, eventually,
soon, you know, within the nextcouple of years bringing in new
leadership and I might just bein the background maybe more
(26:53):
writing and something like thatJust start new ways, a new way
of thinking and so forth, whichI think is always healthy for an
organization.
I'm a little bit atypical thana lot of people.
The way I was thinking thisyear is dramatically different
than I was thinking three yearsago, and the way I'm thinking
two years from now will bedramatically different than the
way I'm thinking now.
I've always been that way.
(27:13):
People who've known me when Iwas a kid said I was that way
even I just never liked statusquo.
So the board is very concernedabout preserving so the fact
that the podcasts are recorded,record and transcripts and so
forth I've been presenting atthe last few and for the next
few board meetings, ourpresentations, just kind of
(27:36):
going through the whole ethical,bioethical, christian
perspective on things, so thatit gets down and those meetings
are recorded and so forth sothat if God decides to take me
soon, we got a record of that.
Along that same line, our series, our debunk series that we've
been doing those of you who getour email service, lifewire
(28:00):
Casey, our creative contentdirector.
She came up with this idea.
Why don't we just take theworst statements made about the
issues we talk about and debunkthem, address them, and so I've
been writing on it.
It's been quite popular.
We just received a request thatwe try to convert it into some
Bible study material and soforth.
(28:21):
So we're going to see it.
We're going to compile them intobooklets.
We've got the booklet alreadyput together on the debunk
series on abortion.
We're working on an assistedsuicide and I'm ramping up the
series on gender issues andwe're going to go into
relationship issues as the nextdebunk series.
So we're trying to put that alltogether.
(28:42):
And then AI and those of youwho've listened to the podcast
in the past, know that I'm awareof the dangers of AI.
I am worried about some of thedirections we go, but I love AI.
If you are aware that even AIhas a bias, you can be prepared
for it.
But we're going to beintegrating AI into the CLR
(29:02):
website.
Krista, when you first becameinvolved as a volunteer, you
said you know there's thousandsof articles on our website and
that's the shrunk down website.
Yeah, yeah because our oldwebsite had many more articles
than that and there's going tobe a new website launched within
the next, hopefully bySeptember.
(29:23):
We're going to have a newwebsite loss, a new interface
that's going to look different,but then we also are going to
integrate AI so that instead ofgoing you know, I'm thinking
about surrogate parenting, I'mthinking about IVF, I'm thinking
about abortion, thinking aboutbirth control you might not know
the key words to search for it,but you might just come to the
(29:44):
website and say my spouse hasbeen diagnosed with a type of
cancer and I don't even knowwhat it is and I don't know what
the Christian attitude shouldbe on it.
You can ramble on like that inan AI text box and it will sort
out what you're really trying tosay and then point you to the
(30:04):
articles and we figure that'sgoing to be a great help to
people when they come to ourwebsite.
Christa Potratz (30:12):
You know we've talked about a lot of different
things and sometimes, like withlooking to the future I mean, I
always think too there just isgood comfort, I guess, in just
knowing that God has the future.
And you know anything elsemaybe that we can just encourage
our listeners to maybe ponder,think about from a biblical
(30:34):
perspective when thinking aboutthe future.
Jeff Samelson (30:37):
God is in control .
That's a main thing.
Who is God?
He's almighty.
He's always working things outfor the good of his people.
He has a plan.
He's sticking to it.
Nothing is impossible for him.
We have access to him throughprayer.
We have God's perfect wisdomreadily available to us.
In the Bible we have baptism inthe Lord's Supper to give us
(31:00):
confidence and strength forwhatever struggles or challenges
we might face or suffering thatwe might have to endure.
And I guess a lesson fromrecently passed well, I guess
we're still in the Easter season, but it can also go all the way
to the end of the Bible and endof time with the book of
Revelation.
With the book of Revelation,winning.
Jesus won, Jesus wins.
(31:22):
Jesus will always win, todayand tomorrow, just as much as he
beat sin, death and Satan atthe cross and with his empty
tomb.
And his victory over sin, deathand Satan has been given to us
as our own.
Even when it might feel likewe're losing in battle against
(31:43):
the culture or politics orscience or whatever, that's not
who we are, we're not losers.
And if it feels like we'rebeing persecuted, we're not
victims.
We're victors because Christhas made us so.
So that does away withpessimism that does away with
despair.
We're on the winning side, nomatter how things seem to be
(32:03):
going in the moment.
We're on the winning sidebecause Jesus has made us his
own and as long as we cling tohim and his cross, we're in good
shape and we're prepared forwhatever comes.
There's still work to be done.
Jesus said we must work whileit is day.
It is day now.
It's not night yet.
You know there's things to bedone, but we can be confident
(32:26):
and comforted in the meantime.
Bob Fleischmann (32:28):
Well, you know, in that regard, one of the
changes that I've seen, you know, in the years I've been here,
is volunteerism is a struggle.
You know CLR.
You know when we began in the70s and 80s, when we formed the
national organization in 83, wewere like the premier volunteer
organization.
(32:48):
All of our affiliates were runby volunteers.
We had, you know, cores ofvolunteers.
People were showing up close toa thousand for convention to
get involved, even though we'dlike to think that maybe other
people are becoming more worldly.
But I'm not.
We all have found other thingsto do than thinking more of
(33:09):
others than of ourselves, and soforth.
And so one of the changes thatwe made at CLR in the last
couple of years is we broughtRachel Greiner on board, and
Rachel's job is basically thebridge ministry part.
So we're looking at NewBeginnings.
Right now our home for mothersis full.
We just accepted a residentthat we can't take last night,
(33:33):
just accepted a resident wecan't take because we have no
room and we are going to be.
It looks like we're closing onthe sale of a gift of property
that was given to New Beginnings.
That closing will be takingplace in a week, and when that
happens.
We're going to relaunch thecapital campaign.
We've got to get the newbuilding built so that we can
(33:55):
handle more mothers, but we canalways use more volunteers.
Meanwhile and Rachel will beoverlooking that part we have a
staff at New Beginnings, butRachel's in charge of our bridge
ministry.
And then we've got the programwhere we send out care boxes to
people who have had miscarriages, you know, to show that there's
a support group behind them.
We're looking at starting tostrengthen our affiliates and
(34:19):
the pregnancy care work thatthey're doing in those
affiliates.
We're looking very strongly atelder care, specifically
indigent elder care, the peoplewho cannot afford a couple
hundred thousand dollars in thebank account so that they can,
you know, live in some of thecommercial elder care
environments that we have today.
So we're trying to look atfilling these gaps.
(34:41):
But it is going to requireChristians to challenge
themselves and say can I supportit financially, support it?
Can I support it with my time?
Can I volunteer?
And we're going to try todesign some programs that can be
done on the congregationallevel.
So maybe you can't afford tobuild your own home for mothers
(35:02):
and take care of single mothersand have them in a program for
up to four or five years, butmaybe you can have something in
your congregation that goesabove and beyond just wringing
our hands over the bad situationthat it is and doing something
positive.
So, when we look to the future,even though we're going to have
problems, even though we'regoing to be persecuted there's
(35:23):
going to be defeats the work,the assignment given to us is
that the way we honor andglorify God is we love others,
as we know God has loved us.
Christa Potratz (35:33):
Thank you both for everything that we've
discussed here today, and wethank all of our listeners too,
and the many listeners too thathave supported Christian Life
Resources over the years.
We thank you especially as welland just a reminder and I think
Bob just touched on this toobut all of our episodes now we
(35:57):
do have transcripts for, and soif you are interested in getting
a transcript of any of theseepisodes, please reach out to us
.
You can reach us throughlifechallengesus there's a place
for comments there, and we'd behappy to send you a transcript
of the episodes.
We thank all of you for joiningus and we look forward to
(36:21):
having you back next time.
Bye.
Paul Snamiska (36:25):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
the Life Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
you to know we're here to help.
(36:46):
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(37:08):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
On today's episode.
I mean, we're already facingthat.
Now you know, when you havepeople who are suspended from
sports for using steroids orsomething like that, you know
where they have an unfairadvantage.
Well, crispr holds thepotential of giving you all
sorts of advantages.
Paul Snamiska (00:37):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
From Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (01:09):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz and I'm heretoday with Pastors Bob
Fleischman and Jeff Samuelson,and this month we are
celebrating the anniversary ofChristian Life Resources.
Bob, what year is it?
Bob Fleischmann (01:24):
This would be 42.
Christa Potratz (01:25):
42.
Okay, good, all right Withanniversaries too.
A lot of times we think aboutthings in the past and things
that we've achieved over thecourse of I mean for Christian
Life Resources for these 42years.
But we also, too, want to lookto the future as well.
(01:45):
But thinking about the pastfirst, bob, can you fill us in
on maybe just some of thehighlights or things that maybe
even you and the staff here havebeen kind of reflecting on this
year for the anniversary?
Bob Fleischmann (02:01):
Perhaps one of the big things that happened is
we had the US Surgeon Generalspeak for a convention.
I'm trying to remember the yearI think it was 1984 that C
Evercoop spoke for us.
I just remember it was held atWisconsin Lutheran High School
but we had gone in withMarquette University.
They were looking to bring himin as a speaker and so we kind
(02:23):
of split the plane flight andstuff.
We weren't allowed to pay himbecause he was employed by the
government, but it was a highpoint we felt pretty good about
that, Kind of got into a cycleof high-profile speakers, which
of course made for bigconventions.
But really the organization tookoff when we established
(02:43):
full-time staffing in 1988,which is why we have full-time
staffing.
I mean, up until 1988, from1983 to 88, we were all
volunteer and pretty muchgetting hardly anything done,
Because you know, I was a parishpastor in a mission church, the
other board members were allfull-time employed in different
(03:06):
things.
We had great ideas and no timeto do it, and so when we got the
funding to go full-time, wellthen we started doing things and
right now, to be honest, Ithink we're really acknowledging
the anniversary by lookingforward.
We've got some big plans, whatwe want to do.
Christa Potratz (03:28):
Christian Life Resources.
I think it is interesting howit did get its I don't know
formation really, maybe is Idon't know if that's the best
word but its start in thepro-life movement.
Its start in the pro-lifemovement.
(03:49):
But over the years you've takenon a lot more issues than just
the abortion issue too.
Bob Fleischmann (03:51):
Well, that's part of the reason why I want to
mention Coop is when Coop spokeat our convention it was on the
heels of the 1982 baby doughsituation in Bloomington,
indiana, where a child was bornwith an opening in the esophagus
so the child couldn't be fed,couldn't take food without that
being repaired.
And that could have beenrepaired.
(04:13):
But the family decided thechild would not lead a worthy
life and decided not toauthorize the surgery.
So the child was put in theback end of the neonatal care
unit and I remember at ourconvention Coop made the
statement.
It's a small leap in logic,going from taking life inside of
the womb to taking life outsideof the womb, and that probably
(04:36):
would be a good umbrellastatement for how the
organization began to expand.
I took the office of nationaldirector on July 1st 1988.
I think it was within five daysor six days.
We had been asked to deal withis some birth control
abortifacient?
And then the secondnon-abortion related issue was a
(05:04):
church out in California had awoman who wanted to become a
surrogate parent and shouldsurrogate parenting be a good
thing?
Even though she wasn't married,but she wanted to bear a child
for someone else.
And then I think the thirdreally big issue was Jack
Kevorkian and what was going on.
And I wasn't aware of it at thetime, but the head of
communications for Wells wasPastor James Schaefer.
(05:27):
We called him Jeb Schaefer andunknown to me that whenever
anybody was asking the Synod forwhat is our position on, and
then you fill in the blank, jebwould always say, well, we now
have this organization that cananswer and I remember we even
got a PETA request what is oursinister position on people for
(05:50):
the ethical treatment of animals?
And that's when I began torealize that something was afoot
and then Jeb had told me whathe had been doing.
But there is a common threadthat goes from taking life
inside of the womb to taking allsorts of life, and that common
thread has to do with mankindsupplanting God as the authors
(06:14):
of their own fate, the authorsof their own destiny.
And that has really, I think,when I look at it from a staff
perspective today, when I lookto the future, I think that
that's the area at least for mytime remaining in my office will
be to try to keep emphasizingthat common thread.
We can change the laws, but thelaws don't change the hearts.
(06:37):
We could protest, but sometimesa picture of an aborted child
and all that kind of stuff doeshave an effect, without a doubt.
Sometimes when you see it forthe first time, you never
realized what was going on.
But change, especiallyGod-pleasing change, is only
rooted in faith, and faithdoesn't happen by flashing up
pictures and protesting andchanging laws.
(06:59):
Faith is the proclamation ofthe gospel.
So I've tried to in the lastfew years very strongly embrace
our mission vision statements oftrying to use life and family
issues as bridges to talk aboutJesus Christ.
Christa Potratz (07:15):
Yeah, I think it's interesting and a good
reminder too, because I thinkyou know, even as I sit down
here today, I'm like, okay, likelet's talk about the issues.
Let's talk about the issuesthat Christian Life Resources
covers.
Let's talk about, you know,what we think for the future.
But just remembering, like howyou're saying, bob, I mean it
really goes above the issues,into how we are going to
(07:39):
communicate these concepts in aChristian-loving way and what we
are ultimately using these andlike the bridge building, and
they are issues in which you canbecome far more ideological
than you could be theological.
Bob Fleischmann (08:11):
So, in other words, it's like we're pulling
out all the stops to pass thislegislation, we're pulling out
all the stops to make thisstatement, to elect this
candidate, and those are allgood things, and we do
personally I mean my wife and Ifinancially support those
efforts.
If any of you have heard mespeak, I've always mentioned to
(08:32):
you I do think you should besupporting your local Right to
Life affiliate.
I think Christians should begetting involved in politics and
so forth, but you should neverlose sight of how real change
takes place and that's a heartministry.
And it pains me when I see evenour pastors sometimes sound
(08:52):
more ideological thantheological.
There's a deeper problem thanjust the fact that a woman wants
to take the life of her unbornchild.
That's systemic of somethingelse going on, and that's where
Christians should be, not justthe pastor, but all Christians
should be, because you all havethe gospel and that's what needs
(09:14):
to be happening.
Christa Potratz (09:15):
It is interesting, though, just all of
the different topics and thingsthat Christian Life Resources
covers too.
I know I've told this storybefore, but just when I first
started coming on to CLR and thevolunteer role and okay, you
know, bob, what should I do?
Oh, just, you know, read thewebsite, krista, and I was just
(09:40):
blown away by, I mean, christianLife Resources.
Well, who would have thought ithas a lot of resources?
You know about a thousand or soarticles that I found when I
went on there.
That was really my firstintroduction just to the wide
variety of topics that ChristianLife Resources covers.
And you know now I mean we havethis, just all this information
(10:04):
, in our podcast too, like thedifferent topics that we've
covered over the years.
Now, I mean anywhere from likeIVF to organ donation, to birth
control, family issues.
There's just so many differentthings that Christian Life
Resources has touched on, so Iguess you know, with some of it,
like in looking toward thefuture now, I mean, what like
(10:28):
man, like what other topics arethere?
Bob Fleischmann (10:30):
Well, I do see three main areas that are going
to for the remainder of mylifetime, I think are going to
really drift front and centerFor the remainder of my lifetime
, I think, in a really driftfront and center, and that would
be in the area procreation,which is just innovations in how
to bring about children.
There's progress made onartificial wombs, there's
progress made on male birthcontrol.
(10:53):
There's progress in that wholearea of procreation.
I think we're going to see somepretty dramatic changes.
Area procreation I think we'regoing to see some pretty
dramatic changes.
I think CRISPR is going to beanother area where we're going
to run into some very difficultbioethical issues between the
line that's drawn betweencurative and enhancement.
I mean, we're already facingthat now.
(11:15):
You know when you have peoplewho are suspended from sports
for using steroids or somethinglike that, you know where they
have an unfair advantage.
Well, crispr holds thepotential of giving you all
sorts of advantages, but I alsothink there's going to be
problems there.
And then the third thing thatgets a lot of attention on the
bioethical journals is the roleof artificial intelligence.
(11:37):
But those are the three that Ithink you're going to see come
up in many different ways, allthree of them.
I see very positive thingscoming from them and very scary
things.
Jeff Samelson (11:48):
Without really predicting particular issues or
anything like that.
I think just more in terms oftrends and what's kind of going
to be in the background ofeverything and complicating
everything there.
I'd like to be optimistic andsay everything's going to be in
the background of everything andcomplicating everything there.
I'd like to be optimistic andsay everything's going to be
getting better, butunfortunately I don't think
there's there's too much causefor that kind of optimism.
(12:09):
What Christians need to be inan organization like CLR needs
to be is prepared for things toget a lot worse in many respects
.
Just some of the broad trendsin terms of like socially, I
think that the loneliness andthe disconnectedness and the
social fragmentation we see now,I think it's just going to get
(12:30):
worse.
I don't really see signs thatit's improving.
There are some people, you knowpeople are calling attention to
it and doing certain things,but I don't really see a whole
lot that's going to bring peopletogether in the way they used
to be together, and a lot ofthat is driven by technology,
which is another area that'sgoing to be driving a lot of
stuff.
And, leaving AI aside, for themoment, what we're seeing in
(12:52):
terms of people's interactionswith tech is more and more
reliance on it for everything,not just to simplify tasks in
their lives or to lessen theirworkload, but also to give them
pleasure, especially on socialmedia.
You know the way peopleidentify according to their
(13:13):
amusements, and you know I'm agamer, those kinds of things and
people will identify.
You know it's like I'm an earlyadopter.
You know I'm the kind of personwho drives this kind of
electric car and things likethat.
(13:34):
And politically, which isprobably what I pay most
attention to, sadly, I thinkthat the partisanship and
polarization that we see todayis just likely to be getting
worse and worse, as people andpoliticians just kind of dig in
and don't really open up anymoreto considering the other side.
Or maybe I'm wrong on this oranything.
(13:56):
I'm wrong on this or anything.
And as far as the pro-life andpro-family movements, I think
that's eventually going to causea reckoning of sorts for them.
You're going to have to face upto the reality that there are
going to be a whole lot ofbattles that just aren't worth
fighting anymore.
They could throw as manyresources as they wanted at it
and it still wouldn't budgeanything politically, so they're
(14:19):
going to end up having to turnaround and shore up and defend
what they already have, what'salready theirs, and try to
protect that more than gettingout uh to try to do things that
uh are not currently in thepro-life or pro-family um column
.
And I just I guess one of theother changes is that things
(14:39):
that we previously thought of asrelatively permanent
politically in terms of thepeople who are on our side, the
people we can count on forsupport, that has shifted a lot
just in the last five years andI think that that's also going
to be causing this kind ofreckoning and re-evaluation of
things.
Christa Potratz (14:59):
Well, now that I'm thoroughly depressed, Jeff.
Paul Snamiska (15:04):
Hey, that's what I was aiming for.
Christa Potratz (15:05):
Kind of a doubter there.
I think this is maybe a goodtransition then, with Christian
life resources too and the workthat can be done.
I mean it sounds like you know,just from what you explained
and then also just from how Jeffhas illustrated things kind of
going that there really is a lotof potential opportunity for
(15:28):
Christian life resources toreally keep going.
Bob Fleischmann (15:32):
I guess you know part of it is just like
being realistic when Jesus saidbecause of the increase of
wickedness or lawlessness, thelove of most will go cold.
Well, all you have to do is sitstill for a moment and think
about well, what must that looklike?
And we think progressively thatit should be worse today than
(15:52):
it was yesterday, and it'll beworse tomorrow than it is today,
and I would say that seems tobe fairly accurate.
I mean, there were things goingon during the time of Christ
and the Apostle Paul, when theywere on earth, that were pretty
bad.
You know, the things of Neroand things of Rome that were
going on are bad by ourstandards.
The other thing too and I justused this reference in a
(16:16):
correspondence with someone thathad asked a question and that
is we're told that sometimespeople get to the point of
calling good evil and evil good.
And so what does that look like?
And again, I look around andI'm going oh my goodness, we're
there, some of the thingsthey're doing, and I think, kind
(16:37):
of at the risk of making youeven more depressed, to get on
to Jeff Spandwagon here that is,if you are living your
Christian faith correctly, andespecially when we get into
these life and family issues andyou find it's going well for
you, I'm pretty convinced you'redoing it wrong because you
don't want to be combative.
(16:58):
When you're standing yourground, because you should
always be looking be combativewhen you're standing your ground
because you should always belooking to bridge build.
But Jesus said they hated me,they're going to hate you.
I mean, it's just the reality.
And it is funny because whenyou're trying to navigate a ship
, we try to do it, clr you'retrying to do it with the full
awareness that sometimes youfeel like you're the captain of
(17:20):
the Titanic.
You know is that, except thatGod still promises his blessing.
He still promises to watch overus and to work all things out
for good, even the things thatlook like they're going south in
a bad way, that somehow they'regoing to work out good for his
people, and we trust that.
(17:41):
But in order for me to do thatas the national director, my
biggest challenge, like right atthis moment, is to get people
to recognize there is only onereliable standard of truth and
that is Scripture.
Beyond that, everybody's justdealing with opinion.
I just wrote an article as partof our Debunk series in which I
(18:04):
talk about.
There's a section in which Italk about that we literally
just surrender objective truthfor an opinion that gets the
most likes.
Likes and somehow I don't knowif we're just getting that daft
that we begin to believe thatthat just because people agree
(18:30):
with me, agree with Scripture.
Carl Truman, who's one of myfavorite contemporary writers,
religious writers, aPresbyterian professor, but he
writes this article about hewrote this little editorial
piece where he said you know,I'm really not interested in
your opinion.
You know, if I'm wrong onsomething, if I'm wrong
biblically on something, I haveno interest in being wrong.
Correct me, but correct mebased upon an object of
(18:51):
authority.
If all you're going to do isshare with me your opinion,
don't waste our time.
And the problem with what wehave today, in our climate today
, and that is social media, issocial media has a way of
venerating opinion to the levelof objective truth and we
(19:12):
declared, or we sense it to be,that by the number of likes we
get and the number of followerswe have and that kind of stuff,
and I don't know, you know, whenyou figure that this world is
naturally opposed to God, youknow it's hostile to God, I
wouldn't find a lot of flatteryif a lot of people in the world
really get on your bandwagon.
Christa Potratz (19:34):
It's funny that you mentioned that too, because
I was just thinking every oncein a while I read something in
Scripture that I mean maybe I'veread a hundred times and I'm
just like, wow, that is just sotrue of now and it probably was
also true back then too.
But I'm just I believe it comesfrom Romans, the do not conform
to the ways of this world, andthat just really hit me.
(19:58):
I mean again, and just hearingyou talk too, bob, about like
how we are just we could get sozapped into what this world
tells us is true that we forgetwhat is actually true, and just
that whole thing about how, yeah, I mean we just we can't just
(20:18):
get sucked into this world andwhat it tells us.
Jeff Samelson (20:24):
I'll just add, going against my own prior
statements, a note of optimism,I guess.
Christa Potratz (20:32):
Thanks, Jeff.
Bob Fleischmann (20:32):
There is still heaven.
Jeff Samelson (20:36):
We've also got to be on the guard, you know,
always as Christians, againstany kind of what I've called
Christian fatalism, which isthat things are bad, they're
always going to be bad.
There's just no point, and youknow well that's not a biblical
attitude.
And he promised that ourprayers will be answered.
(20:58):
And he promised that when we dothe work there will be fruit.
It won't always be the fruitwe're looking for, but just
because the general arc ofhistory is heading to bad things
in an end doesn't mean thattomorrow necessarily is going to
be bad, and it doesn't meanthat we shouldn't be working and
(21:22):
praying and speaking andarguing and such to make
tomorrow and next year and thenext decade and the next
generation better than it istoday.
And if you look at history,countless examples of times when
things looked really bad butlargely through the work of
Christians, they got better.
Maybe not in all ways, but inmany ways.
(21:44):
And then the new responsibilityis to try to maintain what
you've got.
But there's nothing inScripture that says you can't
have shorter-term improvements,even while the general trend of
history is toward evil.
Bob Fleischmann (22:01):
A lot of times in staff meetings I always talk
about recalibration, which iswhat I think CLR is all about.
We're trying to basicallyrecalibrate Christians because,
kind of going back a little bitto what you were saying, Krista,
with being conformed to theworld, kind of going back a
little bit to what you weresaying, Krista, with being
(22:22):
conformed to the world, I thinkwe woefully underestimate how
worldly all of us have become,myself included.
And I've talked aboutRevelation 3 before in the
Church of Laodicea you do notrealize—you say I'm rich, I
don't need a thing.
You don't realize you'repitiful, poor, blind and naked.
And I did a deep dive into whatdoes secular history say about
(22:44):
Laodicea?
And Laodicea said that first ofall, it was very wealthy, it
was a very—it was a kind of aport area and it was very
wealthy.
But they also were very much ofI do my own thing.
And it was an earthquake-pronepart of Asia Minor.
And so they had a bigdestructive thing and Rome came
(23:05):
in and said, okay, we're goingto bring in some people, we're
going to do it.
And they said, no, no, we don'twant your help, we can do this
ourselves.
And it seems like that mentalityand that's from secular sources
had infiltrated into the churchand he said you somehow missed
the point.
And the point that I havetrouble, or I'm struggling with,
in getting people to realign to, is that how do you get
(23:28):
conformed to the world?
Well, the way you get conformedto the world is that their
values become your values, theirgoals become your goals, their
treasures become your treasures.
And the way you getrecalibrated is you got to
remind yourself why was Icreated in the first place?
And Scripture has a veryunworldly explanation or answer
(23:49):
to that, and that is to honorand glorify God.
That is why we exist.
We do not exist to get a career, we do not exist to become
wealthy, to be happy.
We exist to honor and glorifyGod.
And we do that within a careerand within a geographic location
and so forth.
(24:10):
And when you understand that, itthen begins to formulate how
you respond to the latestethical and bioethical
challenges that come your way,because you're looking at
everything and you begin to saywell, you start off by thinking
like the world, what would begood for the world?
You know we've talked aboutthat with CRISPR.
(24:30):
Oh, I'm not sure the world'sgood, ready for that, and
everything you know.
But really, you know, aChristian says how do I honor
and glorify God through this?
How do I honor?
And you begin to think aboutthe ethical choices you make in
life.
I'm dating, Do I have sexualactivity?
Well, okay, we can talk aboutthe dangers and all that kind of
stuff.
When we first started CLR, wewere talking about fetal
(24:53):
heartbeat and brainwaves andfingerprints and fetal
development, all that kind ofstuff.
And we have matured, I think,over the years to talk about why
are we here in the first place?
I don't destroy life because Icannot find in the destruction
of life a way to honor andglorify God.
And then I cannot find in beingsexually promiscuous, how do I
(25:19):
honor and glorify God?
So, when I'm faced with adecision, do we move in, live
together, do we get married?
But it's not just that Everyonewants to start on the wrong end
.
They always want to startwhat's your position on abortion
?
What's your position oncohabitation, on IVF and
everything, when really thefront end is we're talking about
(25:39):
honoring and glorifying God.
Now, how can I do it?
And so CLR really has tried,first of all, to help you
understand what's at play in anissue.
What does it mean to be asurrogate?
You know what's, the mechanismsand the biology and stuff
involved, but the fundamentalquestion remains the same how do
I honor and glorify God?
Christa Potratz (26:00):
question remains the same how do I honor
and glorify God?
Yeah, well, so then, alsothinking about the future of
Christian Life Resources, whatare maybe some plans for the
future?
Bob Fleischmann (26:13):
Well, I know that the board, the CLR board,
the National Board for ChristianLife Resources, is concerned
about succession planning.
So I've been doing this for youknow well, full-time since 1988
.
So I've been around a couple ofyears and so in that time, you
know, I've made a ton ofmistakes and hopefully have
(26:33):
learned from most of them, andso they're trying to figure out
a way how do we preserve some ofthat knowledge and then prepare
for the future.
And I know that we're talkingabout, you know, eventually,
soon, you know, within the nextcouple of years bringing in new
leadership and I might just bein the background maybe more
(26:53):
writing and something like thatJust start new ways, a new way
of thinking and so forth, whichI think is always healthy for an
organization.
I'm a little bit atypical thana lot of people.
The way I was thinking thisyear is dramatically different
than I was thinking three yearsago, and the way I'm thinking
two years from now will bedramatically different than the
way I'm thinking now.
I've always been that way.
(27:13):
People who've known me when Iwas a kid said I was that way
even I just never liked statusquo.
So the board is very concernedabout preserving so the fact
that the podcasts are recorded,record and transcripts and so
forth I've been presenting atthe last few and for the next
few board meetings, ourpresentations, just kind of
(27:36):
going through the whole ethical,bioethical, christian
perspective on things, so thatit gets down and those meetings
are recorded and so forth sothat if God decides to take me
soon, we got a record of that.
Along that same line, our series, our debunk series that we've
been doing those of you who getour email service, lifewire
(28:00):
Casey, our creative contentdirector.
She came up with this idea.
Why don't we just take theworst statements made about the
issues we talk about and debunkthem, address them, and so I've
been writing on it.
It's been quite popular.
We just received a request thatwe try to convert it into some
Bible study material and soforth.
(28:21):
So we're going to see it.
We're going to compile them intobooklets.
We've got the booklet alreadyput together on the debunk
series on abortion.
We're working on an assistedsuicide and I'm ramping up the
series on gender issues andwe're going to go into
relationship issues as the nextdebunk series.
So we're trying to put that alltogether.
(28:42):
And then AI and those of youwho've listened to the podcast
in the past, know that I'm awareof the dangers of AI.
I am worried about some of thedirections we go, but I love AI.
If you are aware that even AIhas a bias, you can be prepared
for it.
But we're going to beintegrating AI into the CLR
(29:02):
website.
Krista, when you first becameinvolved as a volunteer, you
said you know there's thousandsof articles on our website and
that's the shrunk down website.
Yeah, yeah because our oldwebsite had many more articles
than that and there's going tobe a new website launched within
the next, hopefully bySeptember.
(29:23):
We're going to have a newwebsite loss, a new interface
that's going to look different,but then we also are going to
integrate AI so that instead ofgoing you know, I'm thinking
about surrogate parenting, I'mthinking about IVF, I'm thinking
about abortion, thinking aboutbirth control you might not know
the key words to search for it,but you might just come to the
(29:44):
website and say my spouse hasbeen diagnosed with a type of
cancer and I don't even knowwhat it is and I don't know what
the Christian attitude shouldbe on it.
You can ramble on like that inan AI text box and it will sort
out what you're really trying tosay and then point you to the
(30:04):
articles and we figure that'sgoing to be a great help to
people when they come to ourwebsite.
Christa Potratz (30:12):
You know we've talked about a lot of different
things and sometimes, like withlooking to the future I mean, I
always think too there just isgood comfort, I guess, in just
knowing that God has the future.
And you know anything elsemaybe that we can just encourage
our listeners to maybe ponder,think about from a biblical
(30:34):
perspective when thinking aboutthe future.
Jeff Samelson (30:37):
God is in control .
That's a main thing.
Who is God?
He's almighty.
He's always working things outfor the good of his people.
He has a plan.
He's sticking to it.
Nothing is impossible for him.
We have access to him throughprayer.
We have God's perfect wisdomreadily available to us.
In the Bible we have baptism inthe Lord's Supper to give us
(31:00):
confidence and strength forwhatever struggles or challenges
we might face or suffering thatwe might have to endure.
And I guess a lesson fromrecently passed well, I guess
we're still in the Easter season, but it can also go all the way
to the end of the Bible and endof time with the book of
Revelation.
With the book of Revelation,winning.
Jesus won, Jesus wins.
(31:22):
Jesus will always win, todayand tomorrow, just as much as he
beat sin, death and Satan atthe cross and with his empty
tomb.
And his victory over sin, deathand Satan has been given to us
as our own.
Even when it might feel likewe're losing in battle against
(31:43):
the culture or politics orscience or whatever, that's not
who we are, we're not losers.
And if it feels like we'rebeing persecuted, we're not
victims.
We're victors because Christhas made us so.
So that does away withpessimism that does away with
despair.
We're on the winning side, nomatter how things seem to be
(32:03):
going in the moment.
We're on the winning sidebecause Jesus has made us his
own and as long as we cling tohim and his cross, we're in good
shape and we're prepared forwhatever comes.
There's still work to be done.
Jesus said we must work whileit is day.
It is day now.
It's not night yet.
You know there's things to bedone, but we can be confident
(32:26):
and comforted in the meantime.
Bob Fleischmann (32:28):
Well, you know, in that regard, one of the
changes that I've seen, you know, in the years I've been here,
is volunteerism is a struggle.
You know CLR.
You know when we began in the70s and 80s, when we formed the
national organization in 83, wewere like the premier volunteer
organization.
(32:48):
All of our affiliates were runby volunteers.
We had, you know, cores ofvolunteers.
People were showing up close toa thousand for convention to
get involved, even though we'dlike to think that maybe other
people are becoming more worldly.
But I'm not.
We all have found other thingsto do than thinking more of
(33:09):
others than of ourselves, and soforth.
And so one of the changes thatwe made at CLR in the last
couple of years is we broughtRachel Greiner on board, and
Rachel's job is basically thebridge ministry part.
So we're looking at NewBeginnings.
Right now our home for mothersis full.
We just accepted a residentthat we can't take last night,
(33:33):
just accepted a resident wecan't take because we have no
room and we are going to be.
It looks like we're closing onthe sale of a gift of property
that was given to New Beginnings.
That closing will be takingplace in a week, and when that
happens.
We're going to relaunch thecapital campaign.
We've got to get the newbuilding built so that we can
(33:55):
handle more mothers, but we canalways use more volunteers.
Meanwhile and Rachel will beoverlooking that part we have a
staff at New Beginnings, butRachel's in charge of our bridge
ministry.
And then we've got the programwhere we send out care boxes to
people who have had miscarriages, you know, to show that there's
a support group behind them.
We're looking at starting tostrengthen our affiliates and
(34:19):
the pregnancy care work thatthey're doing in those
affiliates.
We're looking very strongly atelder care, specifically
indigent elder care, the peoplewho cannot afford a couple
hundred thousand dollars in thebank account so that they can,
you know, live in some of thecommercial elder care
environments that we have today.
So we're trying to look atfilling these gaps.
(34:41):
But it is going to requireChristians to challenge
themselves and say can I supportit financially, support it?
Can I support it with my time?
Can I volunteer?
And we're going to try todesign some programs that can be
done on the congregationallevel.
So maybe you can't afford tobuild your own home for mothers
(35:02):
and take care of single mothersand have them in a program for
up to four or five years, butmaybe you can have something in
your congregation that goesabove and beyond just wringing
our hands over the bad situationthat it is and doing something
positive.
So, when we look to the future,even though we're going to have
problems, even though we'regoing to be persecuted there's
(35:23):
going to be defeats the work,the assignment given to us is
that the way we honor andglorify God is we love others,
as we know God has loved us.
Christa Potratz (35:33):
Thank you both for everything that we've
discussed here today, and wethank all of our listeners too,
and the many listeners too thathave supported Christian Life
Resources over the years.
We thank you especially as welland just a reminder and I think
Bob just touched on this toobut all of our episodes now we
(35:57):
do have transcripts for, and soif you are interested in getting
a transcript of any of theseepisodes, please reach out to us
.
You can reach us throughlifechallengesus there's a place
for comments there, and we'd behappy to send you a transcript
of the episodes.
We thank all of you for joiningus and we look forward to
(36:21):
having you back next time.
Bye.
Paul Snamiska (36:25):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
the Life Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
you to know we're here to help.
(36:46):
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(37:08):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
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