February 11, 2025 • 32 mins
Join us as we examine how placing God at the center can transform our relationships with both Him and those around us, guiding us through life's inevitable challenges with grace and wisdom. We explore the essence of compassion and how it is taught and modeled through everyday experiences. We also delve into the necessity of engaging with the Word and Sacraments to replenish our spiritual reserves. By staying rooted in faith, we invite you to embrace new challenges and opportunities to reflect God's love in your daily life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jeff Samelson (00:19):
On today's episode, our spouse or a
co-worker or a stranger who'shaving a really bad day, and it
shows, or a bad year, and itshows.
Paul Snamiska (00:30):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (00:58):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz, and I'mhere today with Pastors Bob
Fleischman and Jeff Samuelson,and this is the week of
Valentine's Day, and so wewanted to talk a little bit
about Christian Life Resources,message and ministry with the
heart.
That is something that weactually talk quite a bit about
(01:20):
on the podcast, about just theheart ministry and changing
people's hearts and how thathappens and what we can do, and
so we just really wanted toexpand on this topic today as
well.
Maybe, bob, you know, it's agood place to start with just
(01:41):
how does the condition of ourhearts influence our
relationship with God and others, and just this idea of why we
talk so much about this at CLRand also here on the podcast.
Bob Fleischmann (01:55):
Well, I've been in the ministry since 1983, and
I would say daily I still learnthings that I realized when I
was younger I didn't havecorrect or didn't have it fully
thought through, and the onething that kind of always stuck
in my mind was the wholeinstance of the flood.
(02:15):
God said I'm doing this becauseevery inclination of man's
heart is evil.
And then, after the flood, godsaid I'm not going to do this
again, even though everyinclination of man's heart is
evil.
And in the work that I do hereat CLR, I have walked through
picket lines, I have receivedhateful messages, I've had my
life threatened, I had a chairthrown at me once, I've had all
(02:36):
sorts of things and so plenty ofexamples of evil on display.
And I found myself sitting inthe judgment seat looking down
on everybody going evil, evil.
Look at that evil.
So then I would get back intoGenesis 9, and I'd be reading
again about Noah and getting offthe ark.
And you know, he said I'm notgoing to do this again, even
(02:57):
though every inclination ofman's heart is evil.
And all of a sudden I'm kind ofdoing an inventory of who's
left.
It's Noah and the family.
In other words, nothing changed.
And when we talk about a heartministry, I think a lot of
people look at the work we do atCLR, always focused on all
those other people.
We're going to change them andI began to realize over the
(03:18):
years that really the heartfirst of all.
You got to control what you cancontrol.
I can't control your heart, butI am called upon to be a
messenger and so I have to makesure my message is out there.
And well then God begins todictate how your message is out
there.
You don't pick out the speck inyour neighbor's eye when you've
got a plank in your own eye.
(03:39):
And all of a sudden I startedlooking back over things.
I've written things, I've saidand so forth.
And all of a sudden I startedlooking back over things.
I've written things I've saidand so forth, and all of a
sudden I come off self-righteous.
I mean, you realize there's anevil inclination in my own heart
.
As you begin to start focusingon your heart, heart ministry,
you begin to look at the heartsof others who do wrong in a
(04:00):
different way, not in aself-righteous, judgmentary way,
but in a deeply sad way.
If somebody wants to kill theirunborn child, what has happened
in their life that has led themto the conclusion that in order
for me to be happy, I have tokill someone, and it works that
way at the end of life and thenit has to do with all the
(04:22):
decisions you make, and I wouldsay that probably in 2023, it
came to a head for me when youknow, first of all I've
mentioned it before in thispodcast that maybe over the last
four or five years I becamequite a reader of the stuff
Timothy Keller, the latePresbyterian minister, had
written, and Timothy Kellertalks about counterfeit gods.
(04:43):
I deeply, deeply love my wife,diane, and on April 11th of 2023
, diane was diagnosed withterminal brain cancer and I was
crushed.
I mean, there was a period ofabout three months where it was
a tremendous mental thing for meto sort it through and all of a
sudden I realized I had createdan artificial counterfeit god
(05:08):
out of my wife, because thefirst principle really in heart
ministry is for, crying out loud, get your priorities straight.
And I realized that about two,three months into the whole
process of wrestling with thisnew reality was that I was far
more struck by what had happenedwith my wife than I was by just
(05:32):
my attitude towards God and theattitude of others towards God,
and God no longer had thatfirst place pedestal in our
hearts.
Oftentimes he comes in afterour spouse, after our profession
, after our children, after allsorts of things.
And here I teach on this, Iwrite on this and all of a
(05:52):
sudden I realized I was guiltyas well, and I'm constantly
working on this recalibration.
Now Diane's condition continuesto worsen she was given with
the treatments 18 months to livecontinues to worsen.
She was given with thetreatments 18 months to live and
we're past that.
So I'm thankful for that.
But somebody had asked me doesit make you angry with God?
And you see, anger with God, Ithink, is very much of a
(06:15):
cultural thing, you know.
In other words, this is the wayour culture thinks, because God
really is nothing more than aMarvel superhero in our culture.
He's got some super abilitieshe rescues people, he helps
people and so forth, butsometimes he lets us down.
So we get angry with God.
And so you know it drove meback, not so much in the New
Testament but into the OldTestament.
I look at the stories in theOld Testament and I was reminded
(06:40):
do you know that you know theOld Testament followers, even in
times of great disappointment,would never recite the name of
God because they saw it aspossibly violating the
commandment.
To misuse his name and to beangry with God is not what goes
on.
People would be angry at acircumstance, they would be
frustrated with themselves, butnever with God.
(07:01):
Only God's enemies became angrywith God, and I always remember
Ahab telling Joseph that, no,we don't want to talk to God's
prophet.
Well, why don't you want totalk to him?
He's always saying bad thingsabout me.
He was angry about the messageand so forth.
And so when we talk about CLRbeing a heart ministry, you
calibrate first of all the heart.
You calibrate which is your own, and then it changes the way
(07:22):
you see others.
Because when you look at whatScripture requires of us, calls
upon us to do, it's thesacrifice.
You turn the other cheek, walkthe extra mile, give your coat
as well as your tunic.
You know that kind of stuff,and when you do those things,
the only way you can possiblypossibly do that is you find
something of immeasurable valuethat's out of this world and
(07:46):
that is your relationship withGod.
And I think sometimes we get thecart before the horse.
You know we say, well, you getto hold the little baby that you
saved from an abortion and youget to do all these, and that's
all true, but it's a temporarything.
And endurance there's a lot ofpeople who were involved back in
the 1970s and 80s, when I firstgot involved, who just kind of
(08:08):
faded away.
They didn't have the endurance,but as your love for God grows,
it pushes you forward.
Why?
Because even when you faceterminal diagnoses, even when
you face horrible things in life, you realize that you can walk
through the valley of the shadowof death without fear.
Why?
That's what happens when yourheart gets recalibrated and so
(08:31):
you're willing to turn the othercheek, you're willing to suffer
.
Jeff Samelson (08:34):
I will admit about myself that I tend to be
more intellectually, moreconcerned with matters of the
mind, thought, knowledge, thingslike that, and I think that's
something that's fairly common.
Knowledge, things like that.
And yeah, I think that'ssomething that's fairly common
actually with Lutheranism ingeneral, because there's a lot
of knowledge involved there anda lot of proper, scripturally
informed reasoning going onthere.
(08:55):
And that means there's atendency, certainly with myself,
to not look at the heart somuch, and that's a real mistake.
That's something that's missingwith that, because when we
start, as Bob was talking about,start with the reality of it,
not what we want it to be, butthe reality.
Jesus said, out of the heartcome evil thoughts.
(09:17):
Murders, adultery, sexual sins,thefts, false testimonies and
blasphemies these are the thingsthat defile a person.
So the human heart is not thispure thing.
It's not a happy place.
It's because we're sinful it'snot so good.
And again, we also begin torealize, as we look at ourself
and as we compare ourselves toscripture and things like that,
(09:39):
that sin makes hearts sclerotic.
They become hard and inflexiblethe more they sin.
And so what needs to happen?
Well, exactly what God gives usthe law for they need to be
regularly broken and bent sothat they can work the way
they're supposed to get thescale and the scum removed.
(10:02):
And that's what God's law isfor to convict us of our sins,
so that we realize how lost weare and how undeserving we are
of God's favor.
And only after that then can wetruly appreciate what we have
in the gospel, truly appreciatewhat it means that God so loved
us that he sent his son as thesacrifice to take away our sin.
(10:24):
When we grasp this realityabout our heart not just how bad
it was, but how amazinglywonderful it is that God has
cleansed and remade our heartsthat then motivates us.
First we love God back.
We give him our trust, ourdevotion, our worship, our
(10:45):
obedience.
But then we also say this isn'tjust for me.
That's when we then turn andlove others with it.
We love our neighbor withservice, with compassion, with
simple consideration, and thenthat flows through in all the
things that we want to do.
Christa Potratz (11:04):
One of the things, too, that you mentioned
was this idea of compassion, andso I kind of wanted to expand a
little bit on that in theChristian life, the role that
compassion plays.
How can we embody that in oureveryday interactions when we
talk about compassion, jennifer?
Bob Fleischmann (11:26):
Probably the word sacrifice.
I always talk about low-hangingfruits.
There's easy things to do, butit's the hard stuff.
That, I think, is what tellsyou the measure of where your
heart is.
And a lot of times now peoplewill wonder how much time do you
have to do all the extra stuff?
You can't save the world andpeople who think like that.
(11:50):
I always have trouble with thatbecause, you know, a couple of
my staff members sat down withme once and said you know, bob,
you know, don't be so logical.
You got to bring sometenderness into it.
And because I do tend to be alittle bit like Jeff said, you
know, it's kind of thatLutheranism in us.
It's that hard logical part.
Compassion is the.
(12:10):
I think compassion is thewillingness to sacrifice when it
hurts.
Well, you know, right now youknow we're talking about
Southern California and they'relooking for money to try to help
them rebuild after the fires.
And the low-hanging fruit in myarena is we send them some
money and of course, almost noneof us ever donate to the point
that it hurts.
All of us donate over what wethink we have left and maybe
(12:34):
I'll put off getting the new TVfor an additional month or
something like that.
That's low hanging fruit andit's still admirable.
But genuine compassion is takingtheir pain and making it your
pain.
And I think that that's a hardcompassion to do.
And in my own life you know,like right now I can't leave the
(12:54):
house because I'm a caregiver,so I have to always be here.
So we just had a death in acongregation I served, and so
what can I do?
I write to people, I call them,I talk to them, but in my
prayer I also say, for all ofthose who mourn, god, if you
will give me some of their painso that they don't have to carry
(13:15):
it all.
And you know, in other words,you're willing to carry the
burden.
And I think you know it's notenough to say women ought not
abort their children.
I mean, that's just anideological position statement.
You're willing to step in,you're willing to carry the load
, you're willing to do somethingand the same thing too.
You know, I always telleverybody the difference between
(13:37):
a maternity home and a home formothers.
We run a home for mothers.
A maternity home takes care ofa pregnant woman and up to maybe
a month or so after shedelivers the baby and then she
moves on A home for mothers saysyou come in here, we're going
to help you just get your entirelife turned around, and that's
much harder.
And you've got to be in it forthe longer haul and that's hard,
(14:01):
it is hard.
Christa Potratz (14:03):
When I was considering this question and
everything too, it just made methink that sometimes compassion
is sacrificing, but maybe evenin ways we don't think about
sacrifice too.
One thing you guys might knowthis, but I don't know if all of
our listeners do, but I am alist person.
(14:24):
I like writing lists, and whenI do something I like to mark it
off, maybe in my list, like forthe week or different days and
stuff.
Maybe I will have things thatI'll do for other people, like
I'm going to make you knowso-and-so a meal and bring it
over, or I want to make sure youknow I have a chance to write
(14:44):
this person who you know I liketo send personal messages to, or
just different things like that.
I mean, maybe people would say,well, that's really nice, krista
, that's compassion, that'sgiving your time, I'm giving my
planned time.
In that, the thing that reallythrows my list off is something
(15:05):
that our family's going throughnow is sickness.
All of a sudden, a kid ishomesick and my list just kind
of goes out the door and thethings that I was going to do I
can't do.
And then I am struck thoughthat, okay, well, this is my
opportunity now to show myfamily compassion or compassion
(15:26):
for my child that needs me.
And sometimes too, maybe I'lllike, okay, I have an hour for a
walk and I get my walking shoeson and I mean this is my time
now that I'm gonna go and walk,and then, you know, I'll meet a
neighbor who tells me that shejust lost her job.
Okay, my hour long walk nowbecomes a 45 minute conversation
(15:50):
with somebody that needs mytime.
And so I mean I just mentionedthis too to just say, like that
sometimes our compassion can bein those small things, or just
giving of ourself in littlethings, even just like our
planned time, and that just itcan be something small too and
(16:13):
that that can mean something forother people.
Jeff Samelson (16:17):
Yeah, that's a good point, Krista, and ideally
compassion should be so much apart of our lives that we're
hardly even conscious of it.
Of course I'm compassionatebecause that's just the way
things are, that's just the waywe live, but of course we're
sinful human beings, so itdoesn't work according to the
ideal.
But I'd say that includingcompassion, or incorporating it
(16:39):
more into your life, reallystarts with and includes just
simple consideration beingattuned to how other people are
affected by the choices we make,and then making loving
decisions about what we do andwe say, because most of us are
not going to have lots ofopportunities every day to feed
the poor or speak up for thevoiceless or take care of the
(17:01):
wounded, or not.
Everyone's going to run into theneighbor who's just lost a job,
but every day we can give abreak to our spouse or a
coworker or a stranger who'shaving a really bad day, and it
shows.
Or a bad year, and it shows.
Every day we can hold a dooropen for somebody whose hands
(17:23):
are full.
Every day we can communicatewith others, not just with
strangers that we meet, but evenwith our spouses and our
children, the way that we wantthem to communicate with us.
These are things where we'reputting ourselves into their
shoes and our heart then isreaching out and saying, well,
what's their heart need in thissituation?
(17:43):
And then just that simpleconsideration.
And when you're that way in thelittle interactions of life,
it's just that much more naturalto be that way in the big
considerations in life.
Bob Fleischmann (17:56):
I think too, kristen, just listening to you
talk about taking care of thechildren during sickness, how
much compassion is modeled andthen learned.
I read somewhere that you couldlist all the directives in
Scripture about how we shouldlive and they're going to be
real fine and oftentimes they'revery crystal clear.
(18:16):
We just blur it with ourdesires and so forth, but when
you see it modeled I get motionsick.
People always say, well, didyou and Diane ever go on a
cruise?
Not on your life.
(18:36):
I mean the moment that shipeven moves a little bit, I'd be
hanging over the edge.
And when I was a child I wouldget car sick in the car all the
time and I always remember thatI found that by falling asleep
that prevented me from gettingsick.
And my father would carry meinto the house and there would
(18:57):
be times where I would feignbeing asleep just to have him
carry me into the house and itleft such an indelible mark.
And my mother would when wewere sick and stuff like that.
My mom just was always on call,just never paid attention to
the fact it was in the middle ofthe night and if I got sick she
was up.
And it's amazing how thosememories and you're instilling
(19:20):
those memories in your children,realizing that or not on their
part.
You instill the memory and theday comes back and like for me,
rarely did I have to get up withthe girls when they were sick.
They just, first of all, wedidn't have too much of that
problem and, quite honestly,their mother got up with them a
lot, but now I'm the one who'sthe caregiver, so I get up and
(19:41):
you do it, and you learned itfrom other people.
You learned compassion fromother people.
I always still say that one ofthe most striking examples is
one of the greatest defenders ofpalliative care, a doctor
friend of mine who's spokenbefore Congress and on
committees and is a desiredspeaker at conferences and so
(20:02):
forth.
He and I were at a conferenceand we were sitting at a table.
We were at the opposite end ofthe room and somebody in a
wheelchair came to the door andwe were in Canada, where they
don't have the ADA laws that wehave here, and he saw her
struggling and I remember heshot up out from the chair from
the opposite end of the room andhe went all the way over,
(20:24):
helped her get in, helped herget settled, and then came and
sat back down no fanfare,nothing about it and that just
made an impression that I havenever forgotten and vowed I
would try to always be that way,but again, what he did is
there's directives in Scriptureabout thinking more of others
and everything, but it wasseeing it in action that made
(20:45):
the impression.
So compassion is very muchmodeled in the way we live as
parents, as spouses and asneighbors.
Christa Potratz (20:54):
One of the things that I know people do ask
and kind of struggle with alittle bit is, specifically a
Christian can balance showingcompassion, love for other
people without compromising corebeliefs and values.
Here on the podcast abouttalking at I believe it was a
(21:22):
school, and a girl came up toyou and said that her friend was
considering an abortion andjust how you had mentioned to
her things that she could do andthings that she could say to
the friend.
But one of those things thatshe would say to her is, if you
want to go to get the abortion,I'm not I can't go with you to
that, but I will be here for you, you know, if you want to go to
(21:44):
your parents or just you knowthat support and stuff too.
And it just made me kind ofthink too.
I think sometimes you knowpeople do in some of those
situations wonder how can I showChristian love to people but
still not compromise values andbeliefs that I have?
Bob Fleischmann (22:07):
And that can be hard because sometimes you get
put into the most peculiarcircumstances and in that
illustration and I remember thatand I remember that instance in
that illustration the ultimatesacrifice was if you don't abort
this child and you decide toraise the child, I will help you
.
You know, I will be there foryou and everything.
(22:28):
And that goes back to my youknow, low-hanging fruit argument
.
The low-hanging fruit is youknow, abortion's wrong, don't
kill your child, all that kindof stuff.
When I wrestled with what totell her, I remember thinking to
myself okay, how do Icommunicate that in a way that
is not self-righteous?
And so I don't want to be partof the crime.
(22:49):
But even if you commit thecrime, you still are a soul in
need of God and in need offorgiveness.
And so I even said in thatcircumstance and if you abort
the child, I won't go with youfor that, but I will be here for
you when you come back.
And that's hard.
Because that's hard because ourideologically positioning
(23:13):
ourselves is then we want tokeep punishing.
We want to keep punishing forthe sin.
You don't realize what you didwas wrong.
So you to keep punishing forthe sin.
You don't realize what you didwas wrong.
So you're going to lose myfriendship, you're going to lose
my communication.
No, no, no, no.
Now you're building a wall.
You got to keep building abridge.
Ultimately, she's going to beconvicted, not because of your
very strong statements.
She'll be convicted when shefinds out that the God who gave
(23:38):
her life, who gave her childlife, is the one who says don't
take life.
That's part of that calibratingof the heart in its
relationship with God, and youcan't ever be impatient with
that process.
So sometimes you've got to helppeople, whether even their bad
decisions.
I just yesterday, I just wasasked by somebody who said you
(24:01):
know my grandson's in prison andhe's always looked up to you.
Would you be willing to talk tohim?
Would you be willing to?
And I can't travel to theprison he's at, but I said, to
the extent that he's going to beallowed to communicate, yes,
absolutely, and even though Iknow why he's there.
I saw him getting into trouble.
I knew that he was on thattrajectory.
(24:23):
I'm not going to endorse whathe did, but I will be there for
him to now pick up the piecesand redo life.
Jeff Samelson (24:31):
One of the things I appreciated about the
question.
You know it talked aboutbalancing our core beliefs and
values.
And we're talking about lovingothers and compassion, because
the easy thing is to take it asan either or.
Either we stay true to ourbeliefs or we show love to
others, and that's kind of theway the world wants us to look
(24:53):
at it.
But it is very much a both andkind of situation.
And it's important to rememberthat when we hold on tight to
God's truths and priorities, weare loving others, because who
else is going to be doing thatfor them?
And yet we can't really loveothers fully and properly if
we're not holding on tight toGod's truths and priorities.
(25:15):
And we could probably list awhole bunch of Bible passages to
give some guidance on all this.
Perhaps what's easiest is tolook at the life and ministry of
Jesus.
No one will ever claim that hewas anything but loving.
He didn't lack at all incompassion for others in that
(25:36):
category and yet he never oncecompromised when it came to what
is true, what God wants andsuch.
And if we're saying I'm goingto be just like Jesus, we're
never going to quite reach that,but he is the model that we can
look to, in that, in theexample, and say, well, you know
, if he showed us how, then itis something that we can aim for
.
And what can I learn from himabout being firm when it comes
(26:01):
to somebody who wants me tocompromise the truth, yet at the
same time being entirely lovingto the person who has messed up
his or her life because theylost the truth?
Christa Potratz (26:12):
As we just kind of come together and close up
this episode and just wanted tomaybe just talk about some
things that maybe we can do tomaintain a heart that reflects
God's love.
What are some things that youknow we can maybe just kind of
(26:32):
encourage our listeners with thesubject of keeping their hearts
to the Lord and maintainingthat compassion?
Jeff Samelson (26:44):
I'll start with a negative.
Don't pretend or let yourself befooled into believing that you
don't need the Word andSacrament, that you don't need
the Bible, that you don't beneeding to go to church and have
communion, thinking that whatreally matters is just to get to
work serving others.
Your faith is the foundation ofyour service and the gospel is
(27:05):
the fuel for it, and if you tryto keep on serving and loving
and being compassionate whenyour spiritual tank has run dry,
you're going to run into bigproblems and you're going to
lose something, or you're goingto burn out and and that that's
that's not good in any way.
Also, don't let yourself justget too comfortable in your
(27:26):
corner.
Move around, get out, do newthings, see new things, go new
places, meet new people.
You're going to find plenty ofoutlets for your love, but if
you stay home and you do nothingexcept what you always do,
those opportunities are going tobe limited.
So, putting it positively, justspend your time in the Word, go
to church, remember yourbaptism, all of these things
(27:48):
that are important for allaspects of your faith.
They're important also for alife of love and compassion.
But then also don't just besatisfied with that.
Get out there, do.
Bob Fleischmann (28:00):
Sometimes you sit in church and you're waiting
for that knock-me-over sermonand you get frustrated
oftentimes because either it's asimple sermon didn't really
teach me anything new and Ibegan to realize that oftentimes
when I was going into worship,to realize that oftentimes when
(28:22):
I was going into worship Iwasn't looking to soothe an ache
in my life as much as I waslooking to ratify a conviction I
already had.
And then, of course, like I'dmentioned at the outset, what
happened with Diane and thebrain cancer, that you all of a
sudden are forced to becomeextremely introspective.
And when you becomeintrospective it not only makes
you aware of your struggles inlife, but then it casts a
(28:48):
different light on the strugglesof others.
I think at times we've said Ithink Jeff said it a few times
here in an earlier podcast thatlife is messy, it just is, it's
not simple an earlier podcastthat life is messy, it just is,
it's not simple.
And yet I'm embarrassed to seehow simplistic I oftentimes
evaluate life and where Ilearned the messiness of life is
by being introspective.
(29:09):
And to show you that we don't,you know, I wrote an article a
few years back in which thetitle of the article was I might
Be Wrong and it was kind of atthe cutting edge of this
introspection that I starteddrifting into and I might be
wrong, and I talked about thatand it was funny because I got
an email from somebody that saidso you're recanting that, what
(29:33):
you wrote before, and you'rerecanting this.
No, no, no, no, no.
You missed the point.
The point is, you know, quitbeing so sure about yourself,
about everything, including you,and when you talk about you
know, the heart and beingcompassionate and so forth, you
begin to learn about themessiness of other people's life
(29:55):
by acknowledging the messinessof your own life.
And when you begin to realizethat you know and on occasion
you know the messiness ofpoliticians' life will come to
the forefront, or celebrities'lives will come to the forefront
in the news and usually itcomes in the flavor of a gossip
magazine, you know.
But you realize that everyoneneeds to experience a glimmer of
(30:17):
divine love, divine compassion,which says even though you
denied me, I will forgive.
Even though you turned yourback on me, I will die for you.
And when you get back intoScripture and you get into those
truths and you say it's aboutme that he did this for me, you
begin to say how can I be lessloving towards others?
(30:39):
And that's ultimately whatgives you.
It gives you the fuel to keepgoing, and that's where
compassion comes from.
Christa Potratz (30:48):
Well, thank you both for this discussion today
and we wish all of our listenersa happy Valentine's Day, and we
look forward to having you backnext time.
Thanks a lot, bye.
Paul Snamiska (31:01):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
the Life Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
(31:21):
you to know we're here to help.
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(31:44):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
On today's episode, our spouse or a
co-worker or a stranger who'shaving a really bad day, and it
shows, or a bad year, and itshows.
Paul Snamiska (00:30):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (00:58):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz, and I'mhere today with Pastors Bob
Fleischman and Jeff Samuelson,and this is the week of
Valentine's Day, and so wewanted to talk a little bit
about Christian Life Resources,message and ministry with the
heart.
That is something that weactually talk quite a bit about
(01:20):
on the podcast, about just theheart ministry and changing
people's hearts and how thathappens and what we can do, and
so we just really wanted toexpand on this topic today as
well.
Maybe, bob, you know, it's agood place to start with just
(01:41):
how does the condition of ourhearts influence our
relationship with God and others, and just this idea of why we
talk so much about this at CLRand also here on the podcast.
Bob Fleischmann (01:55):
Well, I've been in the ministry since 1983, and
I would say daily I still learnthings that I realized when I
was younger I didn't havecorrect or didn't have it fully
thought through, and the onething that kind of always stuck
in my mind was the wholeinstance of the flood.
(02:15):
God said I'm doing this becauseevery inclination of man's
heart is evil.
And then, after the flood, godsaid I'm not going to do this
again, even though everyinclination of man's heart is
evil.
And in the work that I do hereat CLR, I have walked through
picket lines, I have receivedhateful messages, I've had my
life threatened, I had a chairthrown at me once, I've had all
(02:36):
sorts of things and so plenty ofexamples of evil on display.
And I found myself sitting inthe judgment seat looking down
on everybody going evil, evil.
Look at that evil.
So then I would get back intoGenesis 9, and I'd be reading
again about Noah and getting offthe ark.
And you know, he said I'm notgoing to do this again, even
(02:57):
though every inclination ofman's heart is evil.
And all of a sudden I'm kind ofdoing an inventory of who's
left.
It's Noah and the family.
In other words, nothing changed.
And when we talk about a heartministry, I think a lot of
people look at the work we do atCLR, always focused on all
those other people.
We're going to change them andI began to realize over the
(03:18):
years that really the heartfirst of all.
You got to control what you cancontrol.
I can't control your heart, butI am called upon to be a
messenger and so I have to makesure my message is out there.
And well then God begins todictate how your message is out
there.
You don't pick out the speck inyour neighbor's eye when you've
got a plank in your own eye.
(03:39):
And all of a sudden I startedlooking back over things.
I've written things, I've saidand so forth.
And all of a sudden I startedlooking back over things.
I've written things I've saidand so forth, and all of a
sudden I come off self-righteous.
I mean, you realize there's anevil inclination in my own heart
.
As you begin to start focusingon your heart, heart ministry,
you begin to look at the heartsof others who do wrong in a
(04:00):
different way, not in aself-righteous, judgmentary way,
but in a deeply sad way.
If somebody wants to kill theirunborn child, what has happened
in their life that has led themto the conclusion that in order
for me to be happy, I have tokill someone, and it works that
way at the end of life and thenit has to do with all the
(04:22):
decisions you make, and I wouldsay that probably in 2023, it
came to a head for me when youknow, first of all I've
mentioned it before in thispodcast that maybe over the last
four or five years I becamequite a reader of the stuff
Timothy Keller, the latePresbyterian minister, had
written, and Timothy Kellertalks about counterfeit gods.
(04:43):
I deeply, deeply love my wife,diane, and on April 11th of 2023
, diane was diagnosed withterminal brain cancer and I was
crushed.
I mean, there was a period ofabout three months where it was
a tremendous mental thing for meto sort it through and all of a
sudden I realized I had createdan artificial counterfeit god
(05:08):
out of my wife, because thefirst principle really in heart
ministry is for, crying out loud, get your priorities straight.
And I realized that about two,three months into the whole
process of wrestling with thisnew reality was that I was far
more struck by what had happenedwith my wife than I was by just
(05:32):
my attitude towards God and theattitude of others towards God,
and God no longer had thatfirst place pedestal in our
hearts.
Oftentimes he comes in afterour spouse, after our profession
, after our children, after allsorts of things.
And here I teach on this, Iwrite on this and all of a
(05:52):
sudden I realized I was guiltyas well, and I'm constantly
working on this recalibration.
Now Diane's condition continuesto worsen she was given with
the treatments 18 months to livecontinues to worsen.
She was given with thetreatments 18 months to live and
we're past that.
So I'm thankful for that.
But somebody had asked me doesit make you angry with God?
And you see, anger with God, Ithink, is very much of a
(06:15):
cultural thing, you know.
In other words, this is the wayour culture thinks, because God
really is nothing more than aMarvel superhero in our culture.
He's got some super abilitieshe rescues people, he helps
people and so forth, butsometimes he lets us down.
So we get angry with God.
And so you know it drove meback, not so much in the New
Testament but into the OldTestament.
I look at the stories in theOld Testament and I was reminded
(06:40):
do you know that you know theOld Testament followers, even in
times of great disappointment,would never recite the name of
God because they saw it aspossibly violating the
commandment.
To misuse his name and to beangry with God is not what goes
on.
People would be angry at acircumstance, they would be
frustrated with themselves, butnever with God.
(07:01):
Only God's enemies became angrywith God, and I always remember
Ahab telling Joseph that, no,we don't want to talk to God's
prophet.
Well, why don't you want totalk to him?
He's always saying bad thingsabout me.
He was angry about the messageand so forth.
And so when we talk about CLRbeing a heart ministry, you
calibrate first of all the heart.
You calibrate which is your own, and then it changes the way
(07:22):
you see others.
Because when you look at whatScripture requires of us, calls
upon us to do, it's thesacrifice.
You turn the other cheek, walkthe extra mile, give your coat
as well as your tunic.
You know that kind of stuff,and when you do those things,
the only way you can possiblypossibly do that is you find
something of immeasurable valuethat's out of this world and
(07:46):
that is your relationship withGod.
And I think sometimes we get thecart before the horse.
You know we say, well, you getto hold the little baby that you
saved from an abortion and youget to do all these, and that's
all true, but it's a temporarything.
And endurance there's a lot ofpeople who were involved back in
the 1970s and 80s, when I firstgot involved, who just kind of
(08:08):
faded away.
They didn't have the endurance,but as your love for God grows,
it pushes you forward.
Why?
Because even when you faceterminal diagnoses, even when
you face horrible things in life, you realize that you can walk
through the valley of the shadowof death without fear.
Why?
That's what happens when yourheart gets recalibrated and so
(08:31):
you're willing to turn the othercheek, you're willing to suffer
.
Jeff Samelson (08:34):
I will admit about myself that I tend to be
more intellectually, moreconcerned with matters of the
mind, thought, knowledge, thingslike that, and I think that's
something that's fairly common.
Knowledge, things like that.
And yeah, I think that'ssomething that's fairly common
actually with Lutheranism ingeneral, because there's a lot
of knowledge involved there anda lot of proper, scripturally
informed reasoning going onthere.
(08:55):
And that means there's atendency, certainly with myself,
to not look at the heart somuch, and that's a real mistake.
That's something that's missingwith that, because when we
start, as Bob was talking about,start with the reality of it,
not what we want it to be, butthe reality.
Jesus said, out of the heartcome evil thoughts.
(09:17):
Murders, adultery, sexual sins,thefts, false testimonies and
blasphemies these are the thingsthat defile a person.
So the human heart is not thispure thing.
It's not a happy place.
It's because we're sinful it'snot so good.
And again, we also begin torealize, as we look at ourself
and as we compare ourselves toscripture and things like that,
(09:39):
that sin makes hearts sclerotic.
They become hard and inflexiblethe more they sin.
And so what needs to happen?
Well, exactly what God gives usthe law for they need to be
regularly broken and bent sothat they can work the way
they're supposed to get thescale and the scum removed.
(10:02):
And that's what God's law isfor to convict us of our sins,
so that we realize how lost weare and how undeserving we are
of God's favor.
And only after that then can wetruly appreciate what we have
in the gospel, truly appreciatewhat it means that God so loved
us that he sent his son as thesacrifice to take away our sin.
(10:24):
When we grasp this realityabout our heart not just how bad
it was, but how amazinglywonderful it is that God has
cleansed and remade our heartsthat then motivates us.
First we love God back.
We give him our trust, ourdevotion, our worship, our
(10:45):
obedience.
But then we also say this isn'tjust for me.
That's when we then turn andlove others with it.
We love our neighbor withservice, with compassion, with
simple consideration, and thenthat flows through in all the
things that we want to do.
Christa Potratz (11:04):
One of the things, too, that you mentioned
was this idea of compassion, andso I kind of wanted to expand a
little bit on that in theChristian life, the role that
compassion plays.
How can we embody that in oureveryday interactions when we
talk about compassion, jennifer?
Bob Fleischmann (11:26):
Probably the word sacrifice.
I always talk about low-hangingfruits.
There's easy things to do, butit's the hard stuff.
That, I think, is what tellsyou the measure of where your
heart is.
And a lot of times now peoplewill wonder how much time do you
have to do all the extra stuff?
You can't save the world andpeople who think like that.
(11:50):
I always have trouble with thatbecause, you know, a couple of
my staff members sat down withme once and said you know, bob,
you know, don't be so logical.
You got to bring sometenderness into it.
And because I do tend to be alittle bit like Jeff said, you
know, it's kind of thatLutheranism in us.
It's that hard logical part.
Compassion is the.
(12:10):
I think compassion is thewillingness to sacrifice when it
hurts.
Well, you know, right now youknow we're talking about
Southern California and they'relooking for money to try to help
them rebuild after the fires.
And the low-hanging fruit in myarena is we send them some
money and of course, almost noneof us ever donate to the point
that it hurts.
All of us donate over what wethink we have left and maybe
(12:34):
I'll put off getting the new TVfor an additional month or
something like that.
That's low hanging fruit andit's still admirable.
But genuine compassion is takingtheir pain and making it your
pain.
And I think that that's a hardcompassion to do.
And in my own life you know,like right now I can't leave the
(12:54):
house because I'm a caregiver,so I have to always be here.
So we just had a death in acongregation I served, and so
what can I do?
I write to people, I call them,I talk to them, but in my
prayer I also say, for all ofthose who mourn, god, if you
will give me some of their painso that they don't have to carry
(13:15):
it all.
And you know, in other words,you're willing to carry the
burden.
And I think you know it's notenough to say women ought not
abort their children.
I mean, that's just anideological position statement.
You're willing to step in,you're willing to carry the load
, you're willing to do somethingand the same thing too.
You know, I always telleverybody the difference between
(13:37):
a maternity home and a home formothers.
We run a home for mothers.
A maternity home takes care ofa pregnant woman and up to maybe
a month or so after shedelivers the baby and then she
moves on A home for mothers saysyou come in here, we're going
to help you just get your entirelife turned around, and that's
much harder.
And you've got to be in it forthe longer haul and that's hard,
(14:01):
it is hard.
Christa Potratz (14:03):
When I was considering this question and
everything too, it just made methink that sometimes compassion
is sacrificing, but maybe evenin ways we don't think about
sacrifice too.
One thing you guys might knowthis, but I don't know if all of
our listeners do, but I am alist person.
(14:24):
I like writing lists, and whenI do something I like to mark it
off, maybe in my list, like forthe week or different days and
stuff.
Maybe I will have things thatI'll do for other people, like
I'm going to make you knowso-and-so a meal and bring it
over, or I want to make sure youknow I have a chance to write
(14:44):
this person who you know I liketo send personal messages to, or
just different things like that.
I mean, maybe people would say,well, that's really nice, krista
, that's compassion, that'sgiving your time, I'm giving my
planned time.
In that, the thing that reallythrows my list off is something
(15:05):
that our family's going throughnow is sickness.
All of a sudden, a kid ishomesick and my list just kind
of goes out the door and thethings that I was going to do I
can't do.
And then I am struck thoughthat, okay, well, this is my
opportunity now to show myfamily compassion or compassion
(15:26):
for my child that needs me.
And sometimes too, maybe I'lllike, okay, I have an hour for a
walk and I get my walking shoeson and I mean this is my time
now that I'm gonna go and walk,and then, you know, I'll meet a
neighbor who tells me that shejust lost her job.
Okay, my hour long walk nowbecomes a 45 minute conversation
(15:50):
with somebody that needs mytime.
And so I mean I just mentionedthis too to just say, like that
sometimes our compassion can bein those small things, or just
giving of ourself in littlethings, even just like our
planned time, and that just itcan be something small too and
(16:13):
that that can mean something forother people.
Jeff Samelson (16:17):
Yeah, that's a good point, Krista, and ideally
compassion should be so much apart of our lives that we're
hardly even conscious of it.
Of course I'm compassionatebecause that's just the way
things are, that's just the waywe live, but of course we're
sinful human beings, so itdoesn't work according to the
ideal.
But I'd say that includingcompassion, or incorporating it
(16:39):
more into your life, reallystarts with and includes just
simple consideration beingattuned to how other people are
affected by the choices we make,and then making loving
decisions about what we do andwe say, because most of us are
not going to have lots ofopportunities every day to feed
the poor or speak up for thevoiceless or take care of the
(17:01):
wounded, or not.
Everyone's going to run into theneighbor who's just lost a job,
but every day we can give abreak to our spouse or a
coworker or a stranger who'shaving a really bad day, and it
shows.
Or a bad year, and it shows.
Every day we can hold a dooropen for somebody whose hands
(17:23):
are full.
Every day we can communicatewith others, not just with
strangers that we meet, but evenwith our spouses and our
children, the way that we wantthem to communicate with us.
These are things where we'reputting ourselves into their
shoes and our heart then isreaching out and saying, well,
what's their heart need in thissituation?
(17:43):
And then just that simpleconsideration.
And when you're that way in thelittle interactions of life,
it's just that much more naturalto be that way in the big
considerations in life.
Bob Fleischmann (17:56):
I think too, kristen, just listening to you
talk about taking care of thechildren during sickness, how
much compassion is modeled andthen learned.
I read somewhere that you couldlist all the directives in
Scripture about how we shouldlive and they're going to be
real fine and oftentimes they'revery crystal clear.
(18:16):
We just blur it with ourdesires and so forth, but when
you see it modeled I get motionsick.
People always say, well, didyou and Diane ever go on a
cruise?
Not on your life.
(18:36):
I mean the moment that shipeven moves a little bit, I'd be
hanging over the edge.
And when I was a child I wouldget car sick in the car all the
time and I always remember thatI found that by falling asleep
that prevented me from gettingsick.
And my father would carry meinto the house and there would
(18:57):
be times where I would feignbeing asleep just to have him
carry me into the house and itleft such an indelible mark.
And my mother would when wewere sick and stuff like that.
My mom just was always on call,just never paid attention to
the fact it was in the middle ofthe night and if I got sick she
was up.
And it's amazing how thosememories and you're instilling
(19:20):
those memories in your children,realizing that or not on their
part.
You instill the memory and theday comes back and like for me,
rarely did I have to get up withthe girls when they were sick.
They just, first of all, wedidn't have too much of that
problem and, quite honestly,their mother got up with them a
lot, but now I'm the one who'sthe caregiver, so I get up and
(19:41):
you do it, and you learned itfrom other people.
You learned compassion fromother people.
I always still say that one ofthe most striking examples is
one of the greatest defenders ofpalliative care, a doctor
friend of mine who's spokenbefore Congress and on
committees and is a desiredspeaker at conferences and so
(20:02):
forth.
He and I were at a conferenceand we were sitting at a table.
We were at the opposite end ofthe room and somebody in a
wheelchair came to the door andwe were in Canada, where they
don't have the ADA laws that wehave here, and he saw her
struggling and I remember heshot up out from the chair from
the opposite end of the room andhe went all the way over,
(20:24):
helped her get in, helped herget settled, and then came and
sat back down no fanfare,nothing about it and that just
made an impression that I havenever forgotten and vowed I
would try to always be that way,but again, what he did is
there's directives in Scriptureabout thinking more of others
and everything, but it wasseeing it in action that made
(20:45):
the impression.
So compassion is very muchmodeled in the way we live as
parents, as spouses and asneighbors.
Christa Potratz (20:54):
One of the things that I know people do ask
and kind of struggle with alittle bit is, specifically a
Christian can balance showingcompassion, love for other
people without compromising corebeliefs and values.
Here on the podcast abouttalking at I believe it was a
(21:22):
school, and a girl came up toyou and said that her friend was
considering an abortion andjust how you had mentioned to
her things that she could do andthings that she could say to
the friend.
But one of those things thatshe would say to her is, if you
want to go to get the abortion,I'm not I can't go with you to
that, but I will be here for you, you know, if you want to go to
(21:44):
your parents or just you knowthat support and stuff too.
And it just made me kind ofthink too.
I think sometimes you knowpeople do in some of those
situations wonder how can I showChristian love to people but
still not compromise values andbeliefs that I have?
Bob Fleischmann (22:07):
And that can be hard because sometimes you get
put into the most peculiarcircumstances and in that
illustration and I remember thatand I remember that instance in
that illustration the ultimatesacrifice was if you don't abort
this child and you decide toraise the child, I will help you
.
You know, I will be there foryou and everything.
(22:28):
And that goes back to my youknow, low-hanging fruit argument
.
The low-hanging fruit is youknow, abortion's wrong, don't
kill your child, all that kindof stuff.
When I wrestled with what totell her, I remember thinking to
myself okay, how do Icommunicate that in a way that
is not self-righteous?
And so I don't want to be partof the crime.
(22:49):
But even if you commit thecrime, you still are a soul in
need of God and in need offorgiveness.
And so I even said in thatcircumstance and if you abort
the child, I won't go with youfor that, but I will be here for
you when you come back.
And that's hard.
Because that's hard because ourideologically positioning
(23:13):
ourselves is then we want tokeep punishing.
We want to keep punishing forthe sin.
You don't realize what you didwas wrong.
So you to keep punishing forthe sin.
You don't realize what you didwas wrong.
So you're going to lose myfriendship, you're going to lose
my communication.
No, no, no, no.
Now you're building a wall.
You got to keep building abridge.
Ultimately, she's going to beconvicted, not because of your
very strong statements.
She'll be convicted when shefinds out that the God who gave
(23:38):
her life, who gave her childlife, is the one who says don't
take life.
That's part of that calibratingof the heart in its
relationship with God, and youcan't ever be impatient with
that process.
So sometimes you've got to helppeople, whether even their bad
decisions.
I just yesterday, I just wasasked by somebody who said you
(24:01):
know my grandson's in prison andhe's always looked up to you.
Would you be willing to talk tohim?
Would you be willing to?
And I can't travel to theprison he's at, but I said, to
the extent that he's going to beallowed to communicate, yes,
absolutely, and even though Iknow why he's there.
I saw him getting into trouble.
I knew that he was on thattrajectory.
(24:23):
I'm not going to endorse whathe did, but I will be there for
him to now pick up the piecesand redo life.
Jeff Samelson (24:31):
One of the things I appreciated about the
question.
You know it talked aboutbalancing our core beliefs and
values.
And we're talking about lovingothers and compassion, because
the easy thing is to take it asan either or.
Either we stay true to ourbeliefs or we show love to
others, and that's kind of theway the world wants us to look
(24:53):
at it.
But it is very much a both andkind of situation.
And it's important to rememberthat when we hold on tight to
God's truths and priorities, weare loving others, because who
else is going to be doing thatfor them?
And yet we can't really loveothers fully and properly if
we're not holding on tight toGod's truths and priorities.
(25:15):
And we could probably list awhole bunch of Bible passages to
give some guidance on all this.
Perhaps what's easiest is tolook at the life and ministry of
Jesus.
No one will ever claim that hewas anything but loving.
He didn't lack at all incompassion for others in that
(25:36):
category and yet he never oncecompromised when it came to what
is true, what God wants andsuch.
And if we're saying I'm goingto be just like Jesus, we're
never going to quite reach that,but he is the model that we can
look to, in that, in theexample, and say, well, you know
, if he showed us how, then itis something that we can aim for
.
And what can I learn from himabout being firm when it comes
(26:01):
to somebody who wants me tocompromise the truth, yet at the
same time being entirely lovingto the person who has messed up
his or her life because theylost the truth?
Christa Potratz (26:12):
As we just kind of come together and close up
this episode and just wanted tomaybe just talk about some
things that maybe we can do tomaintain a heart that reflects
God's love.
What are some things that youknow we can maybe just kind of
(26:32):
encourage our listeners with thesubject of keeping their hearts
to the Lord and maintainingthat compassion?
Jeff Samelson (26:44):
I'll start with a negative.
Don't pretend or let yourself befooled into believing that you
don't need the Word andSacrament, that you don't need
the Bible, that you don't beneeding to go to church and have
communion, thinking that whatreally matters is just to get to
work serving others.
Your faith is the foundation ofyour service and the gospel is
(27:05):
the fuel for it, and if you tryto keep on serving and loving
and being compassionate whenyour spiritual tank has run dry,
you're going to run into bigproblems and you're going to
lose something, or you're goingto burn out and and that that's
that's not good in any way.
Also, don't let yourself justget too comfortable in your
(27:26):
corner.
Move around, get out, do newthings, see new things, go new
places, meet new people.
You're going to find plenty ofoutlets for your love, but if
you stay home and you do nothingexcept what you always do,
those opportunities are going tobe limited.
So, putting it positively, justspend your time in the Word, go
to church, remember yourbaptism, all of these things
(27:48):
that are important for allaspects of your faith.
They're important also for alife of love and compassion.
But then also don't just besatisfied with that.
Get out there, do.
Bob Fleischmann (28:00):
Sometimes you sit in church and you're waiting
for that knock-me-over sermonand you get frustrated
oftentimes because either it's asimple sermon didn't really
teach me anything new and Ibegan to realize that oftentimes
when I was going into worship,to realize that oftentimes when
(28:22):
I was going into worship Iwasn't looking to soothe an ache
in my life as much as I waslooking to ratify a conviction I
already had.
And then, of course, like I'dmentioned at the outset, what
happened with Diane and thebrain cancer, that you all of a
sudden are forced to becomeextremely introspective.
And when you becomeintrospective it not only makes
you aware of your struggles inlife, but then it casts a
(28:48):
different light on the strugglesof others.
I think at times we've said Ithink Jeff said it a few times
here in an earlier podcast thatlife is messy, it just is, it's
not simple an earlier podcastthat life is messy, it just is,
it's not simple.
And yet I'm embarrassed to seehow simplistic I oftentimes
evaluate life and where Ilearned the messiness of life is
by being introspective.
(29:09):
And to show you that we don't,you know, I wrote an article a
few years back in which thetitle of the article was I might
Be Wrong and it was kind of atthe cutting edge of this
introspection that I starteddrifting into and I might be
wrong, and I talked about thatand it was funny because I got
an email from somebody that saidso you're recanting that, what
(29:33):
you wrote before, and you'rerecanting this.
No, no, no, no, no.
You missed the point.
The point is, you know, quitbeing so sure about yourself,
about everything, including you,and when you talk about you
know, the heart and beingcompassionate and so forth, you
begin to learn about themessiness of other people's life
(29:55):
by acknowledging the messinessof your own life.
And when you begin to realizethat you know and on occasion
you know the messiness ofpoliticians' life will come to
the forefront, or celebrities'lives will come to the forefront
in the news and usually itcomes in the flavor of a gossip
magazine, you know.
But you realize that everyoneneeds to experience a glimmer of
(30:17):
divine love, divine compassion,which says even though you
denied me, I will forgive.
Even though you turned yourback on me, I will die for you.
And when you get back intoScripture and you get into those
truths and you say it's aboutme that he did this for me, you
begin to say how can I be lessloving towards others?
(30:39):
And that's ultimately whatgives you.
It gives you the fuel to keepgoing, and that's where
compassion comes from.
Christa Potratz (30:48):
Well, thank you both for this discussion today
and we wish all of our listenersa happy Valentine's Day, and we
look forward to having you backnext time.
Thanks a lot, bye.
Paul Snamiska (31:01):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
the Life Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
(31:21):
you to know we're here to help.
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(31:44):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
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