Tiny pacemakers the size of a rice grain are revolutionizing care for premature infants with heart rhythm issues. These remarkable devices, which dissolve naturally after about a week, eliminate the need for risky removal surgery and represent a fascinating frontier in medical technology. Though currently benefiting a small number of children globally, the underlying innovations promise broader applications across healthcare.
Meanwhile, scientific research continues confirming the harmful effects of recreational marijuana on male fertility. THC significantly alters sperm morphology, potentially dropping viability below the threshold needed for reproduction. This raises challenging questions about why societies continue legalizing substances despite mounting evidence of health risks, and connects to broader concerns about declining fertility rates worldwide.
The growing trend of "longevity clinics" charging thousands monthly for anti-aging treatments and "peak performance" optimization highlights our culture's obsession with extending earthly life. These luxury wellness centers cater to wealthy clients seeking to maximize their years, yet they prompt deeper reflection on what truly matters. As we discuss these clinics, we explore the contrast between pursuing a longer physical existence versus embracing an eternal perspective that transforms how we view our time on earth.
Perhaps most thought-provoking is our examination of an ancient sacrificial altar discovered in Guatemala, where archaeologists found remains of young children. This archaeological finding opens a window into historical practices that modern observers find horrifying, yet some academics contextualize these atrocities through cultural relativism rather than moral clarity. We consider parallels between ancient sacrificial systems and contemporary attitudes toward vulnerable populations, reflecting on which lives our society deems "expendable" and why Christianity offers a unique perspective on sacrifice that upends these cultural patterns.
What do our technological pursuits, medical breakthroughs, and archaeological discoveries reveal about our deepest values? Join us for this wide-ranging conversation that challenges listeners to consider how we define human worth across time, technology, and culture.
SHOW NOTES:
- The Tiniest Pacemaker: The pacemaker is the size of a grain of rice and can be inserted with a syringe. It is activated by pulses of light placed on the surface of the chest over the pacemaker. It is designed for temporary use and dissolves away when no longer needed. (Source: https://tinyurl.com/26z4fwvl accessed 4-3-25)
- Marijuana Use Harmful to Male Fertility: The morphology (shape) of sperm directly relates to its effectiveness in fertilizing an egg. According to the World Health Organization, having as little as 4% of sperm with normal morphology is considered sufficient for fertility under strict criteria. A typical non-smoking male has a 7% normal morphology sperm, with 52% of the sperm being immobile. A cigarette smoker (at least one pack/day for ten years) has 5% normal morphology sperm with 59% of it being immobile. A marijuana smoker (four joints/week for three years) had a 2% sperm that had normal morphology, and 69% of it was immobile. Male infertility in the United States has risen from about 6-7% to 11.4% over the past 50 years. While many factors are believed
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christa Potratz (00:00):
on today's episode.
Bob Fleischmann (00:02):
Yeah Well, and it's interesting.
I've always been fascinated bythere's kind of this ingrained
desire to appease a superiorbeing, and one thing that makes
Christianity the most unique outof all religions is there's
just that flat-out conclusionthere's no way you're going to
(00:23):
do it, you can't do it.
You cannot offer enough childsacrifices.
You cannot offer enough adultsacrifices.
You cannot offer enough foodofferings.
No matter what you do, it'snever going to be enough.
So God said I'll do it, and hedid it with his son.
Paul Snamiska (00:42):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (01:15):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz and I'm heretoday with Pastors Bob
Fleischman and Jeff Samuelson,and we welcome all of our
listeners to the month of May,and today we are going to be
starting off with our currentevent episode for the month here
.
So we have a few differentthings we want to talk about,
and the first that we'll startwith is the tiniest pacemaker.
(01:36):
Bob, can you tell us a littlebit about this tiny pacemaker
that was developed?
Bob Fleischmann (01:44):
Well, what they did is there's a problem and
it's a small number.
Between 50 and 100 children ayear around the world have to go
on to a pacemaker for aboutseven days.
The problem is it was alwaysvery dangerous because the wires
and all that stuff.
So they developed the pacemakerabout the size of a grain of
(02:05):
rice and they were able toimplant that and then they would
activate it by shining lightover the chest area.
When I first saw the story Ithink this was developed on a
Northwestern university it was aflashback for me from about
maybe 25, 30 years ago.
They were going to develop allsorts of different treatments in
(02:28):
which they would implantnanobots or things like that
into the body and then activateand deactivate them by flashing
light that would be flashedthrough the body, through the
body.
One of the questions that kindof came to my mind when I dug
deep on this article was youknow, first of all, how many
children are really going to beaffected by this?
(02:50):
And it did say that really onlyworldwide.
About 50 to 100 a year, and ofcourse, you're going well, there
are millions of children thatrequire different surgical
things.
You know only 50 to 100.
Is this the best place to putthe resources Well you know only
50 to 100 is was this the bestplace to put the resources Well?
Unless one of those 50 to 100children is your child, like so
(03:12):
many other things, thetechnology that was used to do
this and it's able to keep going.
There's a process they use tokeep it going because you don't
have a big battery hooked up toit or anything, but you know a
lot of the science behind it.
I think will be valuable inother areas of medicine.
So I found it to be aremarkably fascinating story of
(03:34):
just how they can do some ofthis.
Jeff Samelson (03:36):
And one of the fascinating things about this
one in particular is that whenit's no longer needed, it just
dissolves away.
Christa Potratz (03:42):
Yeah, I know, yeah, and that was the thing,
too, was that these little tinybabies don't have to have
another surgery to remove it.
It just dissolves away.
Yeah, I know, yeah, and thatwas the thing too was that these
little tiny babies don't haveto have another surgery to
remove it.
Bob Fleischmann (03:50):
Well, and that was kind of the big push behind
the whole story was that itremoved so many of the hazardous
intersections in care forsomebody that size that's
already got some challenges.
They're almost all preemies,but the challenges are you know,
(04:10):
you've got a heart defect, youneed this pacemaker, and the
pacemaker they generally figureit has to last for about seven
days and that's pretty much howthis works and after that it
goes away.
I would guess and I didn't getinto the whole makeup, but you
know, it might be likedissolvable sutures or something
like that.
I think it's going to beinteresting to watch a story
(04:31):
like this 10 years from now andtry to imagine where we might be
on something like this.
Jeff Samelson (04:33):
Yeah, it might be worthwhile just to explain what
a pacemaker is and does.
Bob Fleischmann (04:36):
Yeah, what it does is that the body begins to
you know, the heart might belosing rhythm and a pacemaker
kind of gives it like littleelectrical jolts to kind of keep
it like if it's out of rhythm,it like in microseconds kind of
picks it up and gives it a zapand creates that regular rhythm
that it needs.
When they operate on a neonate,a child, a newborn preemie, a
(05:04):
lot of times that the surgerythere just needs to be some time
for healing, and so then thebody doesn't always keep a
regular heartbeat, which isneeded.
And when you don't have aregular heartbeat, probably the
first area of the body that'saffected is going to be the
brain, because you need to beable to transport oxygen, get it
up to the brain, and that's theone thing you don't want to
(05:26):
have happen at any time, butespecially at this stage of life
.
Christa Potratz (05:30):
In that article too that you shared.
There was a little video of ittoo, and so my kids were all
watching the video.
It was fun, you know, becauseit is so tiny.
I mean they show it like nextto a pencil and a tip of a
pencil and then you're like, wow, is that it?
Bob Fleischmann (06:01):
And it just it seems like that.
That's kind of the thing withtechnology is like let's try to
get it as small as possible, andit was really neat to see it.
It was really neat for my kidsto be able to see it and for us
to talk about it Again.
I just would say you know,watch for what the future is
going to bring.
I think, like I said, it wasabout 30 years ago that I think
I read the first article aboutactivating different remedy
things for the body by flashinglight, and the micro size of
this only makes it even morefantastic.
When I was in seventh grade Iremember my Mr Kramer was my, I
(06:25):
think, social studies teacher orsomething, and he was talking
about kind of a technology racebetween us and Russia and the
Russians had sent back, sent ahuman hair with a drill through
it, a drill bit through thehuman hair, and how small that
was.
And then the Americans sentthat same piece back with a
(06:45):
drill bit through the drill bit.
That was 50 years ago or morewhen I was in those grades.
And now you see this.
I mean I'm always fascinated bytechnology and what it can do.
Christa Potratz (07:01):
Well, another topic that we wanted to talk
about today was marijuana usenow is shown to be harmful to
male fertility.
There was a study out that kindof was talking about this and I
guess one of the things it wasjust very interesting to me
because I guess I had neverreally thought about this or
(07:25):
just, you know, just a verydifferent topic too to talk
about.
Bob Fleischmann (07:30):
And maybe what we first of all need to clarify
is that there's a form ofmarijuana that is used for
medicinal purposes, and thenthere's marijuana that's used to
give you a high, and what thisstudy was pointing out was that
the chemical that's used to giveyou a high was the.
What this study was pointingout was that the chemical that's
used to give you a high was thechemical that's the problem in
fertility.
Believe it or not, a male onlyneeds about 4% of the sperm to
(07:55):
be active to still be considereda fertile male.
But the two things that seem tocreate a lot of problems in
fertility is smoking, justregular cigarette smoking.
And then the second thing ismarijuana and the biggest effect
it has.
It affects sperm in three ways,but the biggest effect is it
changes the shape of the head ofthe sperm and sperm head that
(08:20):
is awkwardly formed, isbasically impotent, it doesn't
work and it drops fertility fromlike 4% to 2%.
You are now classified asinfertile and the level of
infertility has been risingsteadily since the 70s.
(08:40):
You know there's always twoarguments.
I've always felt that theremight be a role for marijuana
and for medicinal purposes,because there is some situations
where pain cannot be alleviatedand so forth, and they can do
it without the hallucinatoryeffects with this, but it's the
hallucinatory element thatcreates the problem here, and a
(09:03):
lot of people have to do thatNow.
The other thing that I foundinteresting is they do claim
that and this didn't come out inour story, but I found it later
that if you're getting ready tohave children, you have to kind
of lay off the stuff for aboutsix months and they say well, if
you lay off the stuff, then thefertility will come back.
The one thing I would point outis the infertility issue is a
(09:27):
bigger issue than we're going tocover in just this little news
story.
But they say that there's a lotof factors associated with
infertility and infertility isbecoming a concern because, as
people have waited longer tohave children, then all of a
sudden they discover they can'thave children and this has
(09:50):
opened up the whole arena of IVFand surrogate parenting and all
of those things.
And really the simple messageis you know there's two
lifestyle things you could dothat would help male fertility,
and that is stop smokingcigarettes and stop smoking
joints cigarettes and stopsmoking joints.
Jeff Samelson (10:09):
It's interesting that you know I believe we
touched on it on one of thebirth control episodes that you
know there's been this searchfor an effective means of male
birth control and it appearsthat all along, you know, there
has been one that just peoplewere not quite aware of.
Christa Potratz (10:22):
I don't think we're promoting that.
Yes.
Jeff Samelson (10:25):
On the other hand , you could say, well, maybe
it's a good thing that regularmarijuana users are not becoming
fathers, kind of working thatthing out in a balance there.
And one of the things thatreally struck me about this is
it's an irony and it's not justabout this, but it's connected
to many other things that at thesame time that science is
identifying more and more thingsthat are harmful about
(10:48):
recreational marijuana use, moreand more places, countries and
states here in the United Statesare legalizing it, and it's one
of those things, like many ofthese places, oh, we're all
about the science, we're allabout the science, but not this,
you know.
And because we like this youknow, and this you me, I would
(11:08):
point it out that the marijuanathat kids were smoking when I
was in high school is, I don'tknow, it's something like just
(11:29):
one-tenth the potency of thestuff that people are using
today.
Yeah, because they've usedscience to make it more potent,
and it's not just that you getthat much better a high out of
it.
All these negative effects alsoare multiplied because most of
them are tied, as you mentioned,to the thing that is what makes
(11:49):
you high.
You know, that effectiveingredient, and it's just
another one of those things thatyou have to say.
Well, if government is supposedto help protect the people,
maybe we should be askinggovernment to be doing a little
bit more regulation than it hasbeen doing.
Bob Fleischmann (12:05):
First of all, you got to remember that there's
always a lag in the waydiscoveries are made and a lag
in the way alarms are sounded.
Everyone's finally beginning tosay, hmm, we're not having the
population explosion that wewere talking about in the 1970s.
In fact, they're expectingthings to start shrinking.
You know there's beenastounding stories about what
(12:29):
could happen to South Korea.
In just like two generations,south Korea could disappear.
You know this is what happenswhen you have a dropped
fertility rate.
But if you're only living forthe moment, then you don't care
about your children,grandchildren,
great-grandchildren.
You're more concerned aboutgetting your high, having your
fun doing what you want, and theproblem is is that you're going
(12:52):
to create a nightmare forfuture generations.
It's more than the coincidencethat the first great command or
the first great directive or thefirst great blessing was be
fruitful and multiply and fillthe earth.
The first great directive orthe first great blessing was be
fruitful and multiply and fillthe earth.
And when the earth startsbecoming less filled, everyone's
going to go.
Oh well, maybe we should getgoing.
And then, all of a sudden, youfind we have this declining
(13:14):
fertility rate.
Well, it's because we startedbad habits and, like Jeff
pointed out.
Christa Potratz (13:19):
I think what's going to happen is you start bad
habits and then people startsaying, well, I don't want to
give that up, you know, and Idon't want to stop doing that
and then pretty soon things justget worse and then you've gone
too far, and I think we do keepturning to technology or just
different things like how can westill do what we want to do but
(13:39):
solve some of these otherproblems too?
Well, another topic here, and avery interesting one, is these
longevity clinics that arecoming out, and, bob, you shared
this article and I don't knowif you want to kind of explain
what a longevity clinic is, butit seems like they've been in
(14:02):
other places but now they'rekind of coming to the US.
Bob Fleischmann (14:06):
Well, it's interesting.
My first practical exposure tothe concepts behind longevity
clinics is, you know, withDiane's condition and, for those
of you who maybe aren'tfollowing, my wife has got grade
four glioblastoma, which isterminal brain cancer, and our
first big exposure to what allwas involved was to have she had
(14:30):
to have an MRI and that's wherethey identified it.
And as I, of course, everythingI do, I do a deep dive into it
all to understand it.
And I found that you knowwealthy people were, they wanted
full body MRIs, you know,because they feel well, we can
identify masses, we can identifyproblems, you know, early on.
And so you know, between CTscans and MRIs and x-rays and
(14:53):
all that kind of stuff, thatsearch led to these other
longevity clinics and I thinkthe article said there's
something like 800 of them inthe United States now.
And yeah, and I mean people arejust and of course, when you're
living for the here and now,when you're living for this, you
want to make it as good as youcan.
And I wrote an article, a14-page article that's posted on
(15:15):
the CLR website, where I justtalk about the difference
between the measures we gothrough to preserve life as
opposed to prolonging the dyingprocess and where that line is.
But when I was reading thisarticle, how far do we go?
And those of you who heard acorollary story which we did not
(15:35):
include in this but there'slike a pill now you can give
your dog to live longer.
And there was just an article Iread last week in which they
said the whole story hasn't beentold on that one either.
And that is the ability to livelonger does not mean you're
going to live longer like youare right now.
I mean you know it's like, forexample, if I were 35 and oh, I
(15:59):
could do this, I could livelonger and everything.
But see your whole body changesat different rates and
different places at differenttimes and so forth, and I think
people are losing sight of thefact that maybe if we start off
life remembering that we have aneternal life in heaven.
It was funny because I lookedat the five main selling points
(16:22):
of longevity clinics and this iswhat they are.
There is the idea of optimizingpeak performance.
You can.
You know, however you are, youcan be better.
Now you have to remember I'mOCD, so I'm thinking, oh, get a
little bit more out of the day,I can go by with a little bit
less sleep.
You know all that kind of stuffit talks about optimizing.
Second thing it does is it'sreally big to promote it.
(16:46):
They get celebrities involvedand social influencers, and all
I can think of is how you know?
I was just listening to amakeup ad the other day Cindy
Crawford, you could look likeCindy Crawford.
I don't want to look like CindyCrawford, but I mean, but you
can look like Cindy Crawford.
It gets rid of the wrinkles,gets rid of the lines.
You know.
All of it is trying to retainthe found of youth and then rid
(17:06):
of the wrinkles, gets rid of thelines, you know.
All of it is trying to retainthe fountain of youth.
And then there's the idea ofluxury experience.
A lot of these longevityclinics are caters to people who
are wealthy, and so it's aluxury, it's a spa, it's like a
camp even.
And then one of the big thingsthat I found whenever I jumped
on a bunch of longevity clinicwebsites is this anti-aging.
(17:28):
Really that's what it's allabout.
You could live longer and soforth.
And I remember kind of talkedabout this topic a little bit on
the CLR National Board.
My kind of working theory is nomatter how good we get at
medicine and tiny implants andall that kind of stuff, we're
just never going to get past 120years.
I think we just had somebodydie at 126 or 121, but I just
(17:51):
don't think we're going to getpast it.
I think that there's just likea natural time clock going on
that and that it runs out.
Jeff Samelson (18:00):
I read about these things like this and I'm
reminded of I don't remember allthe details, but there's a
story from Greek mythology aboutsome guy who is given the
opportunity to ask for anythingfrom the gods, or a particular
god who's granting a wish orsomething like that, and he asks
for eternal life.
The joke was on him he shouldhave asked for eternal youth and
(18:23):
he ends up living forever andeventually he looks like a
grasshopper because he has justshrunk so much and everything,
but he's still alive.
And you know the point you weremaking Bob about.
You know we've got there's moreto life than just extending it,
and particularly as Christianswe've, you know, for everybody
(18:44):
who asks, oh, is this all thereis?
Well the answer is no.
Christa Potratz (18:48):
And so we've got to live with what lies
behind and beyond.
Bob Fleischmann (18:53):
Well, and you know, having you know my father
passed away actually had amassive heart attack a week ago
from the day we recorded thisand we just had the memorial
service this week.
But we've had, you know, plentyof opportunity in the
Fleischman household to thinkabout what life and eternal life
and so forth.
And the one problem we have inthe United States and in the
(19:14):
American culture is God hasrichly blessed us in so many
incredible ways and really webegin to believe like this is as
good as it gets.
And really we begin to believelike this is as good as it gets.
And the one thing that, nomatter how good this life gets,
if you think about thedescription of Revelation, wipes
away every tear from their eyesno more hunger, no more thirst,
(19:36):
anything like that.
Our culture isn't even remotelyclose to anything like that.
No matter how affluent we arein the American culture and you
know I go every year I go for aphysical.
We are in the American cultureand you know I go every year I
go for a physical and I signedup a number of years ago.
I signed up for All of Us,which is a national program
where I give them permission tomonitor my health for the rest
(19:57):
of my life.
If somebody knowing what itmeans to be fat or skinny or
diabetic or cancerous orwhatever, if that could help
somebody else, I'm all in favorof it.
So I signed up for that.
So the government monitors me.
I am not frightened of it.
People want to make me sofrightened of that, but the
thing is is that I'm called inthis life to spend every moment
(20:19):
glorifying God.
That's my mission.
My mission is not to become agreat wise sage.
My mission is not to becomehead of a company.
It's to glorify God.
And you spend every day workingat it, failing, picking
yourself up, doing it again.
But we live in a culture thatteaches you to start looking in
other roads, and so you startlooking for a bigger house,
(20:42):
better house, more fun family.
We talk about putting offchildren until later so I can do
the things I want.
We do all those kinds of thingsand it's all for naught.
That's what Ecclesiastes is allabout.
You know you do it all and youlose it anyways.
You leave it for somebody else,and the sooner you catch on to
that, actually, the much morerelaxed you are about the trials
(21:04):
and tribulations of life.
Jeff Samelson (21:06):
Yeah, yeah.
And we can stipulate that it isdefinitely not a bad thing to
promote good health and toextend life as a healthy person.
I mean, these are positivedevelopments and we're all in
favor of them.
But what Bob was talking about,with these cultural aspects of
things that we just it's like,hey, my life is so good right
(21:26):
now, even if, by what we wouldconsider the real standards,
it's like, hey, my life is sogood right now, even if, by what
we would consider the realstandards, it's not as good as
it could be.
But another thing that worriesme about things like this is
that it could give people againeven more of this false sense of
security that leads them tothink, well, I don't have to
worry about death, so what isthere to worry about?
And so they won't think aboutthe things that really matter,
(21:50):
about their eternal destination,their spiritual security and
all these kinds of things, whichare ultimately a lot more
important.
And I'll just add one lastthought on this that we already
have something like theseclinics that can help people
live forever.
It's the church.
Bob Fleischmann (22:10):
That's what I was going to say.
All of us, technically, shouldbe longevity clinicians.
I mean really, yeah, we talkabout eternity, yeah.
Christa Potratz (22:17):
I mean, maybe in some ways pastors you are,
but no, I think too, you know.
One thing that just struck mewas just I think they said like
anywhere like upwards to $3,000a month that you can spend on
these longevity clinics, andthey are not supposed to replace
your, like you were saying,your physicals, your primary
(22:37):
care too.
It is just added wellness thatyou are getting from this.
That seems kind of crazy to methat people would spend that
amount of money to do that.
But I think again, you know, itjust shows where people's
priorities maybe lie, and ifthey, like Bob you know you were
(22:58):
saying, if you are just livingfor the here and now, then yeah,
why wouldn't you spend all yourmoney to try to make the best
possible investment for the hereand now?
Bob Fleischmann (23:11):
That's the way people are.
What's even sadder is sometimesit's the way I am.
I mean, I get sucked into thaton occasion.
You know you're always tryingto upgrade and find yourself
trying to make heaven on earthand you realize, whoops, I went
too far.
Christa Potratz (23:24):
Well, if you can't afford $3,000 a month,
just diet and exercise.
Bob Fleischmann (23:29):
But that's so much harder.
Christa Potratz (23:32):
Can't you give me a pill?
It will cost you, yeah, allright.
So the next topic that wewanted to talk about, too, is
something that you had found,jeff, and it's an ancient altar
found in Guatemala, in thejungle, that they believe maybe
was used for child sacrifices.
Jeff Samelson (23:49):
Yeah, this is just something that really
grabbed my attention because ofsome of the cultural aspects of
it and what it says about thattime and what it says about our
time as well.
This was an altar from the andI'm going to butcher the
pronunciation on this theTohokuacan culture, which was at
(24:12):
the heart of what became Mexicolong before the Spaniards ever
came, and they found this.
Actually, what reallyfascinated the archaeologists,
they found this in Guatemala,which in place was the center of
Mayan culture.
So it's basically showing thatthere's an interaction between
(24:33):
the two cultures.
But what I think matters to usmost is what this altar was used
for.
It was used for childsacrifices.
They found the remains of threechildren, not older than four,
on the three sides of the altar,which seems to be a pretty good
indication of what the altarwas used for.
And it's just, it's like oh, Ithink I hope that most of us
(24:59):
today still have this reallyawful reaction to this
sacrificing children, butunfortunately there are people
who don't have that reaction andthere's this kind of cultural
relativism involved.
And there was one quote in herein particular from an
archaeologist and this is onewho was not involved with the
(25:20):
project, but she said thediscovery confirms that there
has been an interconnectionbetween both cultures, the
Tuho-Tuho-Hakan and the Mayan,and what their relationships
with their gods and celestialbodies was like.
And then she said we see howthe issue of sacrifice exists in
both cultures.
It was a practice.
It's not that they were violent, it was their way of connecting
(25:43):
with celestial bodies.
How were these children?
How did they die?
I would say yes, there wasviolence involved and a whole
lot of other things that aremorally reprehensible as well.
But there is this culturalrelativism out there that says,
well, we can't impose our valueson other societies.
(26:06):
And there's a whole lot more wecould talk about in connection
with that.
But it's just a very sad thingthat people who should know
better should understand that.
No, there are some things thatare just wrong, you know, and
it's good that they don't happenanymore, and we should never
celebrate that aspect of things.
(26:27):
I mean, yes, it's interestingthat they've discovered this.
There's a lot that can belearned from discoveries like
this, but it's not something torelativize away as well.
You know, they were justdifferent then.
It still meant that childrenwere being murdered as part of
the worship of false gods.
Between that kind of moralinsanity and the way children
(26:51):
are treated by our society now,with abortion, other things,
with dealing with embryos andsuch and destroying them and
such.
The throwaway culture that wehave developed here in our
nation and in Westerncivilization, this culture of
death that we're developing, isreally not that different.
(27:12):
It's just that the gods aredifferent.
Bob Fleischmann (27:14):
Yeah Well, and it's interesting.
I've always been fascinated bythere's kind of this ingrained
desire to appease a superiorbeing, and one thing that makes
Christianity the most unique outof all religions is there's
just that flat-out conclusionthere's no way you're going to
(27:35):
do it, you can't do it.
You cannot offer enough childsacrifices, you cannot offer
enough adult sacrifices, youcannot offer enough food
offerings.
No matter what you do, it'snever going to be enough.
So God said I'll do it, and hedid it with his son, and the
Bible wrestled with this.
I thought it was interestingtoo, because this story, jeff,
(27:58):
that you shared, it's from aculture that they feel might be
like first century in that timeperiod, I think right around the
turn of the century.
Jeff Samelson (28:07):
Jeff, yeah, somewhere between like 100 BC
and 700 AD, Right Something.
Bob Fleischmann (28:13):
Which is pretty incredible, because in the
Bible it talks about Moloch'schild sacrifices and that goes
back like 2,800 or 2,600 yearsbefore Christ, and so it just
seems to have a way of comingaround.
But the archaeologist wascorrect.
It represents a cultural way,but it also shows how culture
(28:35):
can go so far off the rails thatyou just determine some people
are expendable.
I think of the late Governor,richard Lamb, who said the
elderly have a duty to die andget out of the way.
I mean, virginia Ironside inGreat Britain made the comment
on a Sunday morning televisionshow that if a child is born
(28:56):
with a disability you shouldjust smother it.
And the thing that alwaysshocked me is not just that she
said it, but she said it ontelevision.
I mean, she said it for otherpeople.
Why?
Because you realize that theculture is now becoming
accepting enough that I can getaway with it and it wasn't going
to harm my career.
Cultures have a way of doingthat and people need to step
(29:16):
back and say you know, with ourown abortion-minded culture,
what is it about our culturethat has made a human being, an
unborn child, expendable?
What is it?
It wasn't always that way.
There were always people whowere willing to kill unborn
children throughout history, thesame as there always have been
people willing to kill adultsand steal and all that kind of
(29:39):
stuff.
But what is it that makes itnow acceptable?
It's because it's a culturetrying to appease the God of
themselves.
I need to be fully happy and inorder to be happy sometimes
people have to die.
Sometimes a child has to dieand if you try to integrate it
into your religion, sometimesthe child sacrifice and it's so
(30:03):
woefully wrong.
But if you look at the culture,where did they go off?
Where are we going off?
Jeff Samelson (30:09):
Yeah, I will point out there's one difference
between then and now.
The idea behind child sacrificewas that, okay, the gods need
to be appeased, they need to besatisfied somehow, or pleased or
whatever.
What's the most valuable thingthat I have that we can offer up
(30:30):
as a sacrifice?
My own child, I mean that's themost valuable thing there is.
But you see, very soon thatgoes from well, yeah, that is a
really valuable thing, but notmine, yours instead.
But at least there was stillthe sense of this is a really
valuable thing.
Our society today that even hasdisappeared in so many cases.
(30:55):
I mean, you ask a parent of atwo-year-old, it's like, okay,
are you willing to sacrificeyour child, get out of here?
No way, because it has nowbecome that valuable, because
it's something that lives andbreathes and hugs and such.
But as long as it's still inthe womb, they can treat it as
something that lives andbreathes and hugs and such, but
as long as it's still in thewomb, they can treat it as
something that has no value.
Christa Potratz (31:16):
Thank you both for this discussion today.
We covered a lot of topics here, and we thank all of our
listeners, too, for joining us,and we ask, if you are
interested in this podcast, toplease share it with other
people.
We hope to increase and to makemore people aware of the
(31:39):
information here too.
So thank you so much forjoining us and we look forward
to having you back next time.
Bye.
Paul Snamiska (31:50):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
the Life Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
(32:10):
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You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
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(32:33):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
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May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
on today's episode.
Bob Fleischmann (00:02):
Yeah Well, and it's interesting.
I've always been fascinated bythere's kind of this ingrained
desire to appease a superiorbeing, and one thing that makes
Christianity the most unique outof all religions is there's
just that flat-out conclusionthere's no way you're going to
(00:23):
do it, you can't do it.
You cannot offer enough childsacrifices.
You cannot offer enough adultsacrifices.
You cannot offer enough foodofferings.
No matter what you do, it'snever going to be enough.
So God said I'll do it, and hedid it with his son.
Paul Snamiska (00:42):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Christa Potratz (01:15):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz and I'm heretoday with Pastors Bob
Fleischman and Jeff Samuelson,and we welcome all of our
listeners to the month of May,and today we are going to be
starting off with our currentevent episode for the month here
.
So we have a few differentthings we want to talk about,
and the first that we'll startwith is the tiniest pacemaker.
(01:36):
Bob, can you tell us a littlebit about this tiny pacemaker
that was developed?
Bob Fleischmann (01:44):
Well, what they did is there's a problem and
it's a small number.
Between 50 and 100 children ayear around the world have to go
on to a pacemaker for aboutseven days.
The problem is it was alwaysvery dangerous because the wires
and all that stuff.
So they developed the pacemakerabout the size of a grain of
(02:05):
rice and they were able toimplant that and then they would
activate it by shining lightover the chest area.
When I first saw the story Ithink this was developed on a
Northwestern university it was aflashback for me from about
maybe 25, 30 years ago.
They were going to develop allsorts of different treatments in
(02:28):
which they would implantnanobots or things like that
into the body and then activateand deactivate them by flashing
light that would be flashedthrough the body, through the
body.
One of the questions that kindof came to my mind when I dug
deep on this article was youknow, first of all, how many
children are really going to beaffected by this?
(02:50):
And it did say that really onlyworldwide.
About 50 to 100 a year, and ofcourse, you're going well, there
are millions of children thatrequire different surgical
things.
You know only 50 to 100.
Is this the best place to putthe resources Well you know only
50 to 100 is was this the bestplace to put the resources Well?
Unless one of those 50 to 100children is your child, like so
(03:12):
many other things, thetechnology that was used to do
this and it's able to keep going.
There's a process they use tokeep it going because you don't
have a big battery hooked up toit or anything, but you know a
lot of the science behind it.
I think will be valuable inother areas of medicine.
So I found it to be aremarkably fascinating story of
(03:34):
just how they can do some ofthis.
Jeff Samelson (03:36):
And one of the fascinating things about this
one in particular is that whenit's no longer needed, it just
dissolves away.
Christa Potratz (03:42):
Yeah, I know, yeah, and that was the thing,
too, was that these little tinybabies don't have to have
another surgery to remove it.
It just dissolves away.
Yeah, I know, yeah, and thatwas the thing too was that these
little tiny babies don't haveto have another surgery to
remove it.
Bob Fleischmann (03:50):
Well, and that was kind of the big push behind
the whole story was that itremoved so many of the hazardous
intersections in care forsomebody that size that's
already got some challenges.
They're almost all preemies,but the challenges are you know,
(04:10):
you've got a heart defect, youneed this pacemaker, and the
pacemaker they generally figureit has to last for about seven
days and that's pretty much howthis works and after that it
goes away.
I would guess and I didn't getinto the whole makeup, but you
know, it might be likedissolvable sutures or something
like that.
I think it's going to beinteresting to watch a story
(04:31):
like this 10 years from now andtry to imagine where we might be
on something like this.
Jeff Samelson (04:33):
Yeah, it might be worthwhile just to explain what
a pacemaker is and does.
Bob Fleischmann (04:36):
Yeah, what it does is that the body begins to
you know, the heart might belosing rhythm and a pacemaker
kind of gives it like littleelectrical jolts to kind of keep
it like if it's out of rhythm,it like in microseconds kind of
picks it up and gives it a zapand creates that regular rhythm
that it needs.
When they operate on a neonate,a child, a newborn preemie, a
(05:04):
lot of times that the surgerythere just needs to be some time
for healing, and so then thebody doesn't always keep a
regular heartbeat, which isneeded.
And when you don't have aregular heartbeat, probably the
first area of the body that'saffected is going to be the
brain, because you need to beable to transport oxygen, get it
up to the brain, and that's theone thing you don't want to
(05:26):
have happen at any time, butespecially at this stage of life
.
Christa Potratz (05:30):
In that article too that you shared.
There was a little video of ittoo, and so my kids were all
watching the video.
It was fun, you know, becauseit is so tiny.
I mean they show it like nextto a pencil and a tip of a
pencil and then you're like, wow, is that it?
Bob Fleischmann (06:01):
And it just it seems like that.
That's kind of the thing withtechnology is like let's try to
get it as small as possible, andit was really neat to see it.
It was really neat for my kidsto be able to see it and for us
to talk about it Again.
I just would say you know,watch for what the future is
going to bring.
I think, like I said, it wasabout 30 years ago that I think
I read the first article aboutactivating different remedy
things for the body by flashinglight, and the micro size of
this only makes it even morefantastic.
When I was in seventh grade Iremember my Mr Kramer was my, I
(06:25):
think, social studies teacher orsomething, and he was talking
about kind of a technology racebetween us and Russia and the
Russians had sent back, sent ahuman hair with a drill through
it, a drill bit through thehuman hair, and how small that
was.
And then the Americans sentthat same piece back with a
(06:45):
drill bit through the drill bit.
That was 50 years ago or morewhen I was in those grades.
And now you see this.
I mean I'm always fascinated bytechnology and what it can do.
Christa Potratz (07:01):
Well, another topic that we wanted to talk
about today was marijuana usenow is shown to be harmful to
male fertility.
There was a study out that kindof was talking about this and I
guess one of the things it wasjust very interesting to me
because I guess I had neverreally thought about this or
(07:25):
just, you know, just a verydifferent topic too to talk
about.
Bob Fleischmann (07:30):
And maybe what we first of all need to clarify
is that there's a form ofmarijuana that is used for
medicinal purposes, and thenthere's marijuana that's used to
give you a high, and what thisstudy was pointing out was that
the chemical that's used to giveyou a high was the.
What this study was pointingout was that the chemical that's
used to give you a high was thechemical that's the problem in
fertility.
Believe it or not, a male onlyneeds about 4% of the sperm to
(07:55):
be active to still be considereda fertile male.
But the two things that seem tocreate a lot of problems in
fertility is smoking, justregular cigarette smoking.
And then the second thing ismarijuana and the biggest effect
it has.
It affects sperm in three ways,but the biggest effect is it
changes the shape of the head ofthe sperm and sperm head that
(08:20):
is awkwardly formed, isbasically impotent, it doesn't
work and it drops fertility fromlike 4% to 2%.
You are now classified asinfertile and the level of
infertility has been risingsteadily since the 70s.
(08:40):
You know there's always twoarguments.
I've always felt that theremight be a role for marijuana
and for medicinal purposes,because there is some situations
where pain cannot be alleviatedand so forth, and they can do
it without the hallucinatoryeffects with this, but it's the
hallucinatory element thatcreates the problem here, and a
(09:03):
lot of people have to do thatNow.
The other thing that I foundinteresting is they do claim
that and this didn't come out inour story, but I found it later
that if you're getting ready tohave children, you have to kind
of lay off the stuff for aboutsix months and they say well, if
you lay off the stuff, then thefertility will come back.
The one thing I would point outis the infertility issue is a
(09:27):
bigger issue than we're going tocover in just this little news
story.
But they say that there's a lotof factors associated with
infertility and infertility isbecoming a concern because, as
people have waited longer tohave children, then all of a
sudden they discover they can'thave children and this has
(09:50):
opened up the whole arena of IVFand surrogate parenting and all
of those things.
And really the simple messageis you know there's two
lifestyle things you could dothat would help male fertility,
and that is stop smokingcigarettes and stop smoking
joints cigarettes and stopsmoking joints.
Jeff Samelson (10:09):
It's interesting that you know I believe we
touched on it on one of thebirth control episodes that you
know there's been this searchfor an effective means of male
birth control and it appearsthat all along, you know, there
has been one that just peoplewere not quite aware of.
Christa Potratz (10:22):
I don't think we're promoting that.
Yes.
Jeff Samelson (10:25):
On the other hand , you could say, well, maybe
it's a good thing that regularmarijuana users are not becoming
fathers, kind of working thatthing out in a balance there.
And one of the things thatreally struck me about this is
it's an irony and it's not justabout this, but it's connected
to many other things that at thesame time that science is
identifying more and more thingsthat are harmful about
(10:48):
recreational marijuana use, moreand more places, countries and
states here in the United Statesare legalizing it, and it's one
of those things, like many ofthese places, oh, we're all
about the science, we're allabout the science, but not this,
you know.
And because we like this youknow, and this you me, I would
(11:08):
point it out that the marijuanathat kids were smoking when I
was in high school is, I don'tknow, it's something like just
(11:29):
one-tenth the potency of thestuff that people are using
today.
Yeah, because they've usedscience to make it more potent,
and it's not just that you getthat much better a high out of
it.
All these negative effects alsoare multiplied because most of
them are tied, as you mentioned,to the thing that is what makes
(11:49):
you high.
You know, that effectiveingredient, and it's just
another one of those things thatyou have to say.
Well, if government is supposedto help protect the people,
maybe we should be askinggovernment to be doing a little
bit more regulation than it hasbeen doing.
Bob Fleischmann (12:05):
First of all, you got to remember that there's
always a lag in the waydiscoveries are made and a lag
in the way alarms are sounded.
Everyone's finally beginning tosay, hmm, we're not having the
population explosion that wewere talking about in the 1970s.
In fact, they're expectingthings to start shrinking.
You know there's beenastounding stories about what
(12:29):
could happen to South Korea.
In just like two generations,south Korea could disappear.
You know this is what happenswhen you have a dropped
fertility rate.
But if you're only living forthe moment, then you don't care
about your children,grandchildren,
great-grandchildren.
You're more concerned aboutgetting your high, having your
fun doing what you want, and theproblem is is that you're going
(12:52):
to create a nightmare forfuture generations.
It's more than the coincidencethat the first great command or
the first great directive or thefirst great blessing was be
fruitful and multiply and fillthe earth.
The first great directive orthe first great blessing was be
fruitful and multiply and fillthe earth.
And when the earth startsbecoming less filled, everyone's
going to go.
Oh well, maybe we should getgoing.
And then, all of a sudden, youfind we have this declining
(13:14):
fertility rate.
Well, it's because we startedbad habits and, like Jeff
pointed out.
Christa Potratz (13:19):
I think what's going to happen is you start bad
habits and then people startsaying, well, I don't want to
give that up, you know, and Idon't want to stop doing that
and then pretty soon things justget worse and then you've gone
too far, and I think we do keepturning to technology or just
different things like how can westill do what we want to do but
(13:39):
solve some of these otherproblems too?
Well, another topic here, and avery interesting one, is these
longevity clinics that arecoming out, and, bob, you shared
this article and I don't knowif you want to kind of explain
what a longevity clinic is, butit seems like they've been in
(14:02):
other places but now they'rekind of coming to the US.
Bob Fleischmann (14:06):
Well, it's interesting.
My first practical exposure tothe concepts behind longevity
clinics is, you know, withDiane's condition and, for those
of you who maybe aren'tfollowing, my wife has got grade
four glioblastoma, which isterminal brain cancer, and our
first big exposure to what allwas involved was to have she had
(14:30):
to have an MRI and that's wherethey identified it.
And as I, of course, everythingI do, I do a deep dive into it
all to understand it.
And I found that you knowwealthy people were, they wanted
full body MRIs, you know,because they feel well, we can
identify masses, we can identifyproblems, you know, early on.
And so you know, between CTscans and MRIs and x-rays and
(14:53):
all that kind of stuff, thatsearch led to these other
longevity clinics and I thinkthe article said there's
something like 800 of them inthe United States now.
And yeah, and I mean people arejust and of course, when you're
living for the here and now,when you're living for this, you
want to make it as good as youcan.
And I wrote an article, a14-page article that's posted on
(15:15):
the CLR website, where I justtalk about the difference
between the measures we gothrough to preserve life as
opposed to prolonging the dyingprocess and where that line is.
But when I was reading thisarticle, how far do we go?
And those of you who heard acorollary story which we did not
(15:35):
include in this but there'slike a pill now you can give
your dog to live longer.
And there was just an article Iread last week in which they
said the whole story hasn't beentold on that one either.
And that is the ability to livelonger does not mean you're
going to live longer like youare right now.
I mean you know it's like, forexample, if I were 35 and oh, I
(15:59):
could do this, I could livelonger and everything.
But see your whole body changesat different rates and
different places at differenttimes and so forth, and I think
people are losing sight of thefact that maybe if we start off
life remembering that we have aneternal life in heaven.
It was funny because I lookedat the five main selling points
(16:22):
of longevity clinics and this iswhat they are.
There is the idea of optimizingpeak performance.
You can.
You know, however you are, youcan be better.
Now you have to remember I'mOCD, so I'm thinking, oh, get a
little bit more out of the day,I can go by with a little bit
less sleep.
You know all that kind of stuffit talks about optimizing.
Second thing it does is it'sreally big to promote it.
(16:46):
They get celebrities involvedand social influencers, and all
I can think of is how you know?
I was just listening to amakeup ad the other day Cindy
Crawford, you could look likeCindy Crawford.
I don't want to look like CindyCrawford, but I mean, but you
can look like Cindy Crawford.
It gets rid of the wrinkles,gets rid of the lines.
You know.
All of it is trying to retainthe found of youth and then rid
(17:06):
of the wrinkles, gets rid of thelines, you know.
All of it is trying to retainthe fountain of youth.
And then there's the idea ofluxury experience.
A lot of these longevityclinics are caters to people who
are wealthy, and so it's aluxury, it's a spa, it's like a
camp even.
And then one of the big thingsthat I found whenever I jumped
on a bunch of longevity clinicwebsites is this anti-aging.
(17:28):
Really that's what it's allabout.
You could live longer and soforth.
And I remember kind of talkedabout this topic a little bit on
the CLR National Board.
My kind of working theory is nomatter how good we get at
medicine and tiny implants andall that kind of stuff, we're
just never going to get past 120years.
I think we just had somebodydie at 126 or 121, but I just
(17:51):
don't think we're going to getpast it.
I think that there's just likea natural time clock going on
that and that it runs out.
Jeff Samelson (18:00):
I read about these things like this and I'm
reminded of I don't remember allthe details, but there's a
story from Greek mythology aboutsome guy who is given the
opportunity to ask for anythingfrom the gods, or a particular
god who's granting a wish orsomething like that, and he asks
for eternal life.
The joke was on him he shouldhave asked for eternal youth and
(18:23):
he ends up living forever andeventually he looks like a
grasshopper because he has justshrunk so much and everything,
but he's still alive.
And you know the point you weremaking Bob about.
You know we've got there's moreto life than just extending it,
and particularly as Christianswe've, you know, for everybody
(18:44):
who asks, oh, is this all thereis?
Well the answer is no.
Christa Potratz (18:48):
And so we've got to live with what lies
behind and beyond.
Bob Fleischmann (18:53):
Well, and you know, having you know my father
passed away actually had amassive heart attack a week ago
from the day we recorded thisand we just had the memorial
service this week.
But we've had, you know, plentyof opportunity in the
Fleischman household to thinkabout what life and eternal life
and so forth.
And the one problem we have inthe United States and in the
(19:14):
American culture is God hasrichly blessed us in so many
incredible ways and really webegin to believe like this is as
good as it gets.
And really we begin to believelike this is as good as it gets.
And the one thing that, nomatter how good this life gets,
if you think about thedescription of Revelation, wipes
away every tear from their eyesno more hunger, no more thirst,
(19:36):
anything like that.
Our culture isn't even remotelyclose to anything like that.
No matter how affluent we arein the American culture and you
know I go every year I go for aphysical.
We are in the American cultureand you know I go every year I
go for a physical and I signedup a number of years ago.
I signed up for All of Us,which is a national program
where I give them permission tomonitor my health for the rest
(19:57):
of my life.
If somebody knowing what itmeans to be fat or skinny or
diabetic or cancerous orwhatever, if that could help
somebody else, I'm all in favorof it.
So I signed up for that.
So the government monitors me.
I am not frightened of it.
People want to make me sofrightened of that, but the
thing is is that I'm called inthis life to spend every moment
(20:19):
glorifying God.
That's my mission.
My mission is not to become agreat wise sage.
My mission is not to becomehead of a company.
It's to glorify God.
And you spend every day workingat it, failing, picking
yourself up, doing it again.
But we live in a culture thatteaches you to start looking in
other roads, and so you startlooking for a bigger house,
(20:42):
better house, more fun family.
We talk about putting offchildren until later so I can do
the things I want.
We do all those kinds of thingsand it's all for naught.
That's what Ecclesiastes is allabout.
You know you do it all and youlose it anyways.
You leave it for somebody else,and the sooner you catch on to
that, actually, the much morerelaxed you are about the trials
(21:04):
and tribulations of life.
Jeff Samelson (21:06):
Yeah, yeah.
And we can stipulate that it isdefinitely not a bad thing to
promote good health and toextend life as a healthy person.
I mean, these are positivedevelopments and we're all in
favor of them.
But what Bob was talking about,with these cultural aspects of
things that we just it's like,hey, my life is so good right
(21:26):
now, even if, by what we wouldconsider the real standards,
it's like, hey, my life is sogood right now, even if, by what
we would consider the realstandards, it's not as good as
it could be.
But another thing that worriesme about things like this is
that it could give people againeven more of this false sense of
security that leads them tothink, well, I don't have to
worry about death, so what isthere to worry about?
And so they won't think aboutthe things that really matter,
(21:50):
about their eternal destination,their spiritual security and
all these kinds of things, whichare ultimately a lot more
important.
And I'll just add one lastthought on this that we already
have something like theseclinics that can help people
live forever.
It's the church.
Bob Fleischmann (22:10):
That's what I was going to say.
All of us, technically, shouldbe longevity clinicians.
I mean really, yeah, we talkabout eternity, yeah.
Christa Potratz (22:17):
I mean, maybe in some ways pastors you are,
but no, I think too, you know.
One thing that just struck mewas just I think they said like
anywhere like upwards to $3,000a month that you can spend on
these longevity clinics, andthey are not supposed to replace
your, like you were saying,your physicals, your primary
(22:37):
care too.
It is just added wellness thatyou are getting from this.
That seems kind of crazy to methat people would spend that
amount of money to do that.
But I think again, you know, itjust shows where people's
priorities maybe lie, and ifthey, like Bob you know you were
(22:58):
saying, if you are just livingfor the here and now, then yeah,
why wouldn't you spend all yourmoney to try to make the best
possible investment for the hereand now?
Bob Fleischmann (23:11):
That's the way people are.
What's even sadder is sometimesit's the way I am.
I mean, I get sucked into thaton occasion.
You know you're always tryingto upgrade and find yourself
trying to make heaven on earthand you realize, whoops, I went
too far.
Christa Potratz (23:24):
Well, if you can't afford $3,000 a month,
just diet and exercise.
Bob Fleischmann (23:29):
But that's so much harder.
Christa Potratz (23:32):
Can't you give me a pill?
It will cost you, yeah, allright.
So the next topic that wewanted to talk about, too, is
something that you had found,jeff, and it's an ancient altar
found in Guatemala, in thejungle, that they believe maybe
was used for child sacrifices.
Jeff Samelson (23:49):
Yeah, this is just something that really
grabbed my attention because ofsome of the cultural aspects of
it and what it says about thattime and what it says about our
time as well.
This was an altar from the andI'm going to butcher the
pronunciation on this theTohokuacan culture, which was at
(24:12):
the heart of what became Mexicolong before the Spaniards ever
came, and they found this.
Actually, what reallyfascinated the archaeologists,
they found this in Guatemala,which in place was the center of
Mayan culture.
So it's basically showing thatthere's an interaction between
(24:33):
the two cultures.
But what I think matters to usmost is what this altar was used
for.
It was used for childsacrifices.
They found the remains of threechildren, not older than four,
on the three sides of the altar,which seems to be a pretty good
indication of what the altarwas used for.
And it's just, it's like oh, Ithink I hope that most of us
(24:59):
today still have this reallyawful reaction to this
sacrificing children, butunfortunately there are people
who don't have that reaction andthere's this kind of cultural
relativism involved.
And there was one quote in herein particular from an
archaeologist and this is onewho was not involved with the
(25:20):
project, but she said thediscovery confirms that there
has been an interconnectionbetween both cultures, the
Tuho-Tuho-Hakan and the Mayan,and what their relationships
with their gods and celestialbodies was like.
And then she said we see howthe issue of sacrifice exists in
both cultures.
It was a practice.
It's not that they were violent, it was their way of connecting
(25:43):
with celestial bodies.
How were these children?
How did they die?
I would say yes, there wasviolence involved and a whole
lot of other things that aremorally reprehensible as well.
But there is this culturalrelativism out there that says,
well, we can't impose our valueson other societies.
(26:06):
And there's a whole lot more wecould talk about in connection
with that.
But it's just a very sad thingthat people who should know
better should understand that.
No, there are some things thatare just wrong, you know, and
it's good that they don't happenanymore, and we should never
celebrate that aspect of things.
(26:27):
I mean, yes, it's interestingthat they've discovered this.
There's a lot that can belearned from discoveries like
this, but it's not something torelativize away as well.
You know, they were justdifferent then.
It still meant that childrenwere being murdered as part of
the worship of false gods.
Between that kind of moralinsanity and the way children
(26:51):
are treated by our society now,with abortion, other things,
with dealing with embryos andsuch and destroying them and
such.
The throwaway culture that wehave developed here in our
nation and in Westerncivilization, this culture of
death that we're developing, isreally not that different.
(27:12):
It's just that the gods aredifferent.
Bob Fleischmann (27:14):
Yeah Well, and it's interesting.
I've always been fascinated bythere's kind of this ingrained
desire to appease a superiorbeing, and one thing that makes
Christianity the most unique outof all religions is there's
just that flat-out conclusionthere's no way you're going to
(27:35):
do it, you can't do it.
You cannot offer enough childsacrifices, you cannot offer
enough adult sacrifices, youcannot offer enough food
offerings.
No matter what you do, it'snever going to be enough.
So God said I'll do it, and hedid it with his son, and the
Bible wrestled with this.
I thought it was interestingtoo, because this story, jeff,
(27:58):
that you shared, it's from aculture that they feel might be
like first century in that timeperiod, I think right around the
turn of the century.
Jeff Samelson (28:07):
Jeff, yeah, somewhere between like 100 BC
and 700 AD, Right Something.
Bob Fleischmann (28:13):
Which is pretty incredible, because in the
Bible it talks about Moloch'schild sacrifices and that goes
back like 2,800 or 2,600 yearsbefore Christ, and so it just
seems to have a way of comingaround.
But the archaeologist wascorrect.
It represents a cultural way,but it also shows how culture
(28:35):
can go so far off the rails thatyou just determine some people
are expendable.
I think of the late Governor,richard Lamb, who said the
elderly have a duty to die andget out of the way.
I mean, virginia Ironside inGreat Britain made the comment
on a Sunday morning televisionshow that if a child is born
(28:56):
with a disability you shouldjust smother it.
And the thing that alwaysshocked me is not just that she
said it, but she said it ontelevision.
I mean, she said it for otherpeople.
Why?
Because you realize that theculture is now becoming
accepting enough that I can getaway with it and it wasn't going
to harm my career.
Cultures have a way of doingthat and people need to step
(29:16):
back and say you know, with ourown abortion-minded culture,
what is it about our culturethat has made a human being, an
unborn child, expendable?
What is it?
It wasn't always that way.
There were always people whowere willing to kill unborn
children throughout history, thesame as there always have been
people willing to kill adultsand steal and all that kind of
(29:39):
stuff.
But what is it that makes itnow acceptable?
It's because it's a culturetrying to appease the God of
themselves.
I need to be fully happy and inorder to be happy sometimes
people have to die.
Sometimes a child has to dieand if you try to integrate it
into your religion, sometimesthe child sacrifice and it's so
(30:03):
woefully wrong.
But if you look at the culture,where did they go off?
Where are we going off?
Jeff Samelson (30:09):
Yeah, I will point out there's one difference
between then and now.
The idea behind child sacrificewas that, okay, the gods need
to be appeased, they need to besatisfied somehow, or pleased or
whatever.
What's the most valuable thingthat I have that we can offer up
(30:30):
as a sacrifice?
My own child, I mean that's themost valuable thing there is.
But you see, very soon thatgoes from well, yeah, that is a
really valuable thing, but notmine, yours instead.
But at least there was stillthe sense of this is a really
valuable thing.
Our society today that even hasdisappeared in so many cases.
(30:55):
I mean, you ask a parent of atwo-year-old, it's like, okay,
are you willing to sacrificeyour child, get out of here?
No way, because it has nowbecome that valuable, because
it's something that lives andbreathes and hugs and such.
But as long as it's still inthe womb, they can treat it as
something that lives andbreathes and hugs and such, but
as long as it's still in thewomb, they can treat it as
something that has no value.
Christa Potratz (31:16):
Thank you both for this discussion today.
We covered a lot of topics here, and we thank all of our
listeners, too, for joining us,and we ask, if you are
interested in this podcast, toplease share it with other
people.
We hope to increase and to makemore people aware of the
(31:39):
information here too.
So thank you so much forjoining us and we look forward
to having you back next time.
Bye.
Paul Snamiska (31:50):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
the Life Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
(32:10):
you to know we're here to help.
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(32:33):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
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