March 23, 2025 • 41 mins
Robert Peterpaul returns to The Life Shift Podcast to talk about the profound impact of kindness, particularly in the face of tragedy.
The Life Shift RewindI’m excited to share bonus episodes from Patreon, where I revisited past guests to discuss what has changed and the value of sharing their stories. Since I currently only have the lower tiers available, I wanted to make these conversations accessible to the public feed. If you'd like to support the show directly, please consider joining the $3 or $5 tier on Patreon – www.patreon.com/thelifeshiftpodcast.
He shares his personal story about losing his brother to cancer at a young age and reflects on how those experiences shaped his understanding of compassion and community. Throughout our chat, we explore how acts of kindness can serve as a lifeline during tough times, highlighting that these moments help us heal and connect us deeply with others. Robert's insights remind us that kindness is not just a nice thing to do; it's essential to our humanity.
Check out the full episode here: The Art of Kindness in the Face of Tragedy - Robert Peterpaul – https://www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com/the-art-of-kindness-in-the-face-of-tragedy-robert-peterpaul/
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello my friends.
I just wanted to drop somespecial bonus episodes into the feed
that you probably have notheard unless you are a part or an
early part of the Patreon forthe Life Shift podcast.
If you don't know, I do have a Patreon.
It currently only has two tiers.
One is a three dollar a monthtier just to support what I'm doing,
(00:22):
helps cover production costs.
And then there's a five dollartier which will get you episodes
early and just the, I guess,warm fuzzies for help out with the
Life Shift podcast.
But I used to have other tierswhere people were so generous and
were offering additional moneyeach month to get bonus episodes
and possible winnings of Tshirts and all sorts of things.
(00:46):
And then I realized a couplemonths ago that I wasn't able to
deliver what I wanted to,especially for those of you that
were giving me the extra money.
So right now we're just kindof doing the early episodes.
You'll always get those.
So if you want to support theLife Shift podcast, please jump over
to patreon.comforward/thelifeshiftpod podcast and
you can find that information there.
(01:06):
But I come on here because Iwant to share a series of these bonus
episodes that I did early onin the Patreon journey.
There are like 20 plusepisodes in which I had bonus recordings
with previous guests.
So I would go back and wewould have a conversation about the
experience of sharing theirstory on the Life Shift podcast.
(01:28):
Catch up on anything.
And I think these are superimportant and I know most of them
did not see the light of dayfrom outside of the Patreon.
So I'm going to be droppingthese episodes.
Whatever you're listening tonow is another episode.
So I'm going to use the sameintro for all of them.
But here is one of the bonusepisodes with a former guest from
(01:49):
the Life Shift podcast.
And if you like this, let meknow because I'm thinking of bringing
some of this back and talkingto previous guests as I go into year
four.
So enjoy this bonus episodethat was once released on the Patreon
feed.
I'm Matt Gilhooley and this isthe Life Shift Candid conversations
(02:10):
about the pivotal moments thathave changed lives forever.
I am here with my friend Robor Robert or which one do you like?
Peter Paul.
Francis is my middle name.
(02:31):
Rob is great.
Rob works.
Is Francis your middle name?
It is.
I also have a confirmationname if you want to really get into
it.
So I have.
I'd like that quite a fewRobert Francis Thomas Peter Paul.
Okay, so like all of the.
I would.
I can say this because my nameis Matthew John.
It's very like these genericboy names that you got.
(02:52):
All of them.
Yes.
All the saints were very holy.
I tell people sometimes thatmy parents maybe had like this like
a Bible dartboard, whichsounds really blasphemous, but in
which they were just likepicking names.
So anyway, Robert Peter Paul,thank you for being back.
We recorded your episode inMay of 2023 and then it was released
(03:13):
on 7 11, 2023.
And that was like ahappenstance event falling on the
11th, which an 11 is a specialnumber for you and your family.
Yeah, that was wild that thathappened that way.
I was obviously so honoredthat you asked me the first time.
I'm honored to be back andreflecting on it has been interesting.
(03:36):
You know, the number 11 meansa lot to my family and I think many
others because it istechnically some kind of angelic
number when you do research on it.
But don't fact check me.
It means a lot to my familybecause my brother Thomas was diagnosed
with cancer when he was 9 andthen he passed away at the age of
11 on 911 at 9 11pm and Iactually looked at the clock unknowingly
(04:03):
as a child at 911 when we wereall in the hotel room and he was
at the hospital with myparents and the adults, not knowingly,
I looked exactly at that time.
And I'm not joking, Matt.
I kind of forget this happens.
But at least every week, atleast once, I will look at the clock
randomly at 9:11.
It used to happen more frequently.
(04:24):
It's interesting that itdoesn't as much anymore or maybe
I'm just not as aware of it.
But yeah, the number 11's sortof like a wink from him now.
So when I see that and when Isaw that on your episode, it just
felt like, oh, wow, he tuned in.
You know, it was meant to be.
And something recently happened.
I can't remember what it is,but there was another 11 in which
(04:44):
some.
I don't know, I posted something.
It was related to you and itwas an 11.
And I can't remember what itwas, but I think there is something
about those numbers.
I have something very similarand one time I got the nerve, or
I don't know if it's nerve,but I went to see a medium and they
were like, your mom, like, iscommunicating with you every time.
Do you see a number all thetime basically?
(05:06):
And I was like, yeah.
And they're like, well, that'show your mom is like letting you
know that she's there.
And I was like, wow, okay, somaybe, maybe you have something to
add.
So interesting.
Did you enjoy your experiencewith the medium?
I'm fascinated by this.
Yeah, I think it was.
It's hard because sometimes,like, I think there's a lot of skepticism
in my brain.
I'm not someone that's superspiritual or I don't know if I believe
(05:30):
all that stuff and I don'tknow if that's informed by just losing
someone so early in my life,but I went into it kind of open minded
and what I liked about it wasthat this particular person, she
didn't.
She asked you to like create afake email address to sign up for
it because she didn't want youto think that she was gonna like
google you or figure outinformation about your life.
(05:54):
And so.
And I didn't have the podcastyet, so nobody knew that my mom was
dead.
Now everyone knows because Italk about it every single week.
But it was really interesting.
And you know, some of it waslike, oh yeah, that might resonate
and others were, I don't know.
So I'm still on the fence.
But it was interesting.
And some of the stuff that didconnect, maybe I just need to hear,
(06:14):
you know, and maybe it's true,maybe it's not true, but it kind
of was this nice little,little part of a healing journey.
So that's the great part about it.
If it brings you some kind ofjoy, to quote Marie Kondo, I guess,
or peace, you know, it wasworth it.
And I encourage everybody outthere who's grieving or has lost
someone to look for thesesigns and celebrate when see them
because I don't know, I don'tthink you have to believe in them,
(06:37):
although it's nice to.
I think it's just somethingthat can bring you comfort.
I mean, even if you attachthat, that is your brother sending
you a signal.
Yeah.
That can bring you peace orjoy or bring good memories to you.
So.
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Yeah, it's a guide and itactually has helped me over the years,
believe it or not, the numberseeing it with things that have sort
(06:59):
of been meant to be.
I think we recently went on adelayed honeymoon.
I think our room number was 11or had 11 in it.
There's a lot of things likethat that are, that will happen to
us and it's sort of.
Yeah, it's a nice thing to seeon the journey.
That's kind of fun.
Yeah, you know, you have apodcast, the Art of Kindness, and
you just hit 100 episodes and.
Or 102 now, maybe.
(07:20):
I think we're like 106 today,which is.
Oh, funny.
Well, then I got lost.
Yeah, you did some replays andthings like that.
But in any case, your 100thepisode, you talked to Carol Burnett.
And I know this is not aboutyour story, but hello.
That's so cool.
What was your life like onthat moment?
It was such an honor, youknow, I thought 100.
I'm always looking for reasonsto celebrate, and I thought the 100th
(07:43):
was a really big, exciting thing.
As, you know, since you'vejust experienced it, it's an accomplishment.
And I think when you're apodcaster and you're sort of doing
all this on your own and it'sa lot of work, it's nice to just
stop and really think aboutall the time you've put into this
and what you've put out intothe world.
So suffice to say, I wanted tocelebrate it in a big way.
(08:04):
I was looking for a reallyexciting guest, although all of them
are exciting to me.
My network especially waslike, try and find somebody, you
know, that maybe you normallywouldn't try and ask.
So I.
I went wild.
I was putting all thesepitches out there.
I had secured on the down low.
I've actually haven't toldpeople this, but I had Sara Barilles
for a long time, which wouldhave been wonderful.
(08:24):
And hopefully, fingerscrossed, it will work out.
I also have a weird mouthinjury going on, people, so if I
stumble over, it's my giantLisa Rinna lip.
I will say that.
Yeah, I had all these thingsout and lovely feedback from people.
People were in, then they wereout because of the strike going on.
And so I had almost given up hope.
(08:44):
And then at 9:11pm I receivedan email.
Stop it.
It might have actually been no.
But I got an email fromCarol's team saying she would love
to, and she's very passionateabout kindness and, you know, listened
and loved it.
And so it happened.
I still can't believe it happened.
I tried my best not to blackout during it.
I did a little bit, but shewas everything you could hope for.
(09:07):
I feel like talking to her wasa warm hug and I could just sit back
and I felt like I was in thepresence of a family member.
And listeners have said thatthey said they felt like they were
dropping in on a phone callwith their.
Their grandma or somethinglike that.
You know, she's so beloved andI said this to her.
I'm like, you're universally loved.
She was like, no, I'm not.
No one is.
(09:27):
And, you know, that was ablanket statement, but I think she's
pretty darn close, so it wasan honor.
Next time, for your 200th, itwill be Dolly Parton, because I know
that that's your ultimate.
Put that out there, my friend.
We gotta make that happen.
And with that, if you do endup talking to Sara Bareilles, tell
her that I am her favorite orshe's my favorite, and both we're
gonna be best friends at somepoint in this.
(09:48):
I remember that about you.
That's why I felt like lettingthe cat out of the bag there.
And if it works out, I'mdefinitely gonna send the team your
show and just be.
Thank you.
If you're interested, I would.
I'm gonna hold you to that.
But.
Well, it's recorded now, so.
Yeah, exactly.
Gotta do it.
So with the Art of Kindness,though, you're talking to these people
in the entertainment industry.
(10:09):
You're talking to them about,you know, like, what they think kindness
is and what kind ofexperiences in their lives have they
kind of seen kindness extendedto them and.
And kind of given them a leg up.
And then when you came on myshow, you told something maybe a
little bit more personal thatyou don't necessarily share too many
details on in your own, youknow, on your own podcast.
(10:32):
What was that like for you?
I know you've told your storybefore, you've told it in front of
Congress and those kind of things.
Was there anything that, afterour conversation, made you think
anything different than you'vetold it before?
A couple things.
You know, I gotta give it to you.
You are a fantasticinterviewer, which I've said before.
And I think one of the greatqualities you possess is listening,
(10:54):
and you throw out sort ofquestions or statements that elicit
really wonderful answers inyour guests.
And, you know, just as alistener, I say that.
So then to be in the seat andexperience it, I did find myself
saying things and sort ofthinking of things, even semi poetically,
with.
I said something about awindow with.
That was cracked with the suncoming through.
(11:15):
I don't even know.
But, yeah, there was.
There was a lot that came upfor me that by the end of it, I had
that feeling that you feelafter sort of expelling a lot of
energy in a good way.
And it felt like a very safeplace to be.
And so, I guess reflecting onthat time, one of the things that
I really Took away was.
(11:37):
And I feel like, helps meactually grow as a person.
Was.
Maybe I don't remember if itwas the middle of the conversation,
but I think multiple times.
And you've said this on yourshow, you were saying how you closed
the door on grief.
And usually I'm just a very.
I guess I try and.
Yes.
And.
And always agree with people,even if I don't.
And it's not that I didn'tagree with you, but I just, in that
(11:59):
moment was like, I don't knowif I have closed the door in grief.
Yeah, I feel like it was anawesome moment.
Like I felt weird sort ofsaying something different, but I
felt it led the conversationinto an interesting place and.
And reflecting on that today,I actually, I don't really subscribe
necessarily to saying peopleare right.
Right or wrong.
But you're wrong.
(12:19):
No, I'm just kidding.
I think that we're both quote,unquote, right because we both have
our own experiences.
But I was also reallyreflecting on what you said and how
powerful it was in the factthat you can close the door on grief,
but behind the door, it'sstill there.
There's still sort of a house there.
So I sort of have combined ourtwo thoughts now.
(12:40):
And looking back on it, Iguess that's how I.
I feel and what I took away.
You know, I'm able to share mystory without sort of falling back
into it and sort of fallingback in love with my trauma and my
grief.
I think that's something thathappens to people.
People are in love with theirtrauma whether they know it or not,
and they can't get out of the,you know, merry go round they're
(13:03):
in, which I certainly haveexperienced with people.
And so to be able to sayyou've closed the door on grief is
an interesting sentiment andsomething I think I reflected on
a lot after our conversation.
Among other things, I will say that.
You pushing back on that, notpushing back.
But you've also said thatthat's not what I meant, you know,
in a way that you say not saying.
(13:24):
Yes.
And for me, since then, I'mlike, well, maybe I didn't mean.
Maybe I was telling myself that.
But I think what you justsaid, that we're both kind of right
in.
In our own ways because griefis different for everyone.
My grief journey feels sodifferent or feels so separate from
(13:44):
so many times that I've talkedto other people about their journey
because I don't remember my mom.
And so it's hard to like, it'sAlmost like I grieve what I didn't
have.
More so than.
Than her loss.
Because at this point in 35years later, 34 years later, it's
(14:05):
more of like, this figment,because there's not like you don't.
I don't know, it just feelsdifferent for me.
And so.
But every time I go to say it,when I'm having a conversation with
someone else, I always thinkof you because I think it's important.
I think there is somethingnice about podcasting where we don't
have to be like, yes, andwhere we can just be like, no, I
(14:27):
don't really agree with that,or no, I didn't feel that way.
And that's such a beauty of,like, storytelling and having this
space.
And I think you probably feelthis too.
When people define kindness ina way that's like, oh, I never thought
of that before.
When you ask them to define kindness.
Yeah, I love it.
I actually.
I've started to really embraceand love differing opinions as a
(14:50):
people pleaser.
It's interesting, but it's hard.
Well, as we grow older, don'tyou feel like you want to surround
yourself with people thatchallenge you and maybe give you
a new idea?
And I really think it's coolthat we are both sort of thinking
about the same little momentwhere it's not like we.
We quote, unquote, disagree.
There's not like a word forit, I guess.
It's so ambiguous and personal.
But it stuck with us, itaffected us, and it kind of shifted
(15:12):
our view.
And I think that's somethingwe all need more of in this world,
is just to listen to eachother and maybe not take on someone's
view, but sort of let it lifeshift your own, sort of mold your
own along the way.
So it's kind of cool.
Have you read this Is Random,where the Crawdads Sing?
I haven't read this yet.
Just closed it last night.
(15:33):
And there's a big through linewith the loss of a mother that I
think you might find interesting.
It is a work of fiction.
It's beautifully written.
I'm sure the author maybeexperienced something like it in
real life, but something youjust said made me think.
I don't want to spoil it.
That you might all rightthings away from that.
Yeah.
And if we're talking aboutbooks, have you read Tomorrow and
(15:53):
Tomorrow and Tomorrow?
Oh, you know, I have.
God, I can't stop thinkingabout it.
I read it this year.
The Patreon people are like,why are they talking about books?
This is not a book podcast.
But seriously, if you'relistening, read that book.
It's tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.
I can't think of the author.
Is it Levin or something like that?
Oh, Gabrielle Zevin, Ibelieve, With a Z.
Yes.
Who's a fantastic author.
(16:15):
Also wrote a great book calledthe storied life of Ag.
A.J.
fickery, I believe.
Which if you're a book loverout there, and you probably are,
if you're still tuned intothis, because we're going off on
books, I recommend it.
It's got everything, you know,romance, mystery.
Awesome.
She's a great author.
Yeah.
But I love that book too.
It was so good.
And I will read the other one.
I think I didn't read it yetbecause I had a friend that said
(16:37):
this is not possible, whateverhappens in the book.
So, in any case, you know,we're talking about the power of
storytelling.
And for me, having told mystory in so many different ways now,
over 100 plus episodes, I'mrecording 117 later today.
So, like, it's just likethere's a lot.
And I say my story a lot, andI think every time I say it, there's
some kind of healing in itbecause other people are listening.
(16:59):
They'll reach out to me, like,hey, Matt, you said this this time,
you know, like, let's talkabout that.
I know you shared your episode.
You were apprehensive a littlebit at first to share your episode
with some of your familymembers, but some of your family
members listened and you hadone reaction that I thought maybe
we could chat about.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Well, what's interesting, too,about what you just said is it reminds
(17:20):
me, I think, of.
I think it's Jack Nicholson orAnthony Hopkins.
Oh, gosh, why am I meshingthem together?
But there's an actor who saidthey don't need to do any analysis
or work, which I don't know ifI believe that all they do is read
the script at least 200 times,and then they know everything they
need to know about the story.
So I think as you continue totell your story hundreds of times,
(17:41):
that's you getting to know it.
Like, the more you tell it,the more you know it and the more
you understand something, theless power, I guess it can have over
you in a negative way.
So that's interesting.
I think I saw that on Instagram.
But scrolling down to youractual question, when you.
Yes, when.
When you shared the episode,you had said to me too.
I.
I think you'll find thatPeople have surprising reactions
(18:03):
to this and I was nervous toshare it with some folks.
One person I wasn'tnecessarily nervous to share it with,
who would have listened to iteither way because she has been just
one of my greatest championsin life.
And I know you have a similarrelationship with your grandmother.
Is my nanny, who I told CarolBurnett about as well because she
also did.
(18:24):
She's in the grandma club withus and I just love her so much.
And I pulled up.
Actually, that's why I'm pausing.
I'm pulling it up right now.
I found her initial text thatshe sent me after she listened to
the episode and I'll read itto you.
We certainly had a much longerphone call after this, but she said
(18:44):
this was in July.
I finally listened to yourinterview on Life Shift.
Oh, Robert, your words put adent in my heart.
I learned so much more aboutyour quote unquote story.
So much I didn't know aboutyour experience.
Hope we can talk about this ifyou feel comfortable doing so.
Brave, brilliant man you are.
(19:04):
What a gift to listeners,which is such a grandma thing to
say.
And she's so sweet.
But then we had this lovelyphone call where I feel like we're
so close and have alwaysshared everything, but because I
sat down with you and took thetime to I guess just start talking
about it and things came up Ihadn't maybe processed or talk talked
about before.
(19:25):
She had questions and morethings to discuss.
And it was such a gift.
I mean, it was.
Thank you for opening the doorfor that conversation.
There were certainly followups with even my parents who listened
that I didn't expect.
And I think because of the wayyou helped me tell it in such a respectful
(19:46):
setting, it allowed for thatnobody was upset.
Yeah.
You know what's really cooltoo about your podcast is that while
it's inspiring to listen to,it's also sort of a reminder on a
simple level that this issomething free everybody can do.
If you just take the time.
You don't need to have apodcast mic to sit down for a half
(20:07):
hour or an hour with somebodyand have this conversation and maybe
prepare questions.
That's kind of fun.
My grandma always does thatwhen I see her.
She always has a.
You said that somewhere recently.
A list.
I think I made it a kindness tip.
I'm getting really low on those.
I gotta figure out creative ones.
But yeah, she would alwayshave sort of a cue card of things
to ask me about, which Ithought was so wonderful.
So just being curious aboutpeople and doing that is a gift,
(20:31):
so thank you for that.
And I encourage people outthere to have these conversations
with their loved ones, whetherthey're on a podcast or not.
Yeah, I think.
You know what?
I had a very similar experience.
I recorded my story with.
I had my first episode, guestkind of flip roles with me, and I
got to tell my story.
And I think, what's thereason, you know, like, my dad listened
(20:53):
to that, and my dad and Ilived that same experience, but he
saw it from his lens.
He saw it from what he was,you know, seeing and experiencing.
And anytime you have theseconversations, like, maybe even the
conversations that you hadwith your grandmother since your.
Your brother passed, there'salways interruptions, right?
Because you're like, oh, no, Ididn't see it that way.
(21:14):
And.
And this allowed you to tellsomeone that didn't know your story
that full story, beginning toend, without getting that, oh, no,
that's not how it happened.
And.
And it kind of.
So when, like, my dad heard myepisode, he's like, oh, I, like,
totally didn't mean for thatexperience to be that way.
And I was like, I know.
It was just how I experiencedit, not how you experienced it.
(21:34):
And so maybe that was alsokind of.
Even though you've had theseconversations with your grandmother,
she heard you tell it in a waythat was uninterrupted and, you know,
in a way that was.
You were telling it to adifferent person, you know, So I
think there's always suchvalue in that, too, that we never
really think of asstorytellers or as people that like
to kind of share their story.
(21:55):
So, yeah, I think it'swonderful that.
You have security, and I wouldlove to see sort of.
Well, hopefully you neverstop, but down the line at the.
Toward the end of the podcastjourney or just a later episode,
you with maybe that sameperson or someone else.
I'm around if you want to tellthat story again.
Because it's interesting tosort of have this time capsule now
(22:16):
where it's like, well, at thatmoment, that's what I reflected on.
That's how I felt about it.
That's kind of what I tookaway from the experience.
But, you know, when I wasyounger, I probably would have said
the same truth but had adifferent feeling on it.
So you're right to have sortof the purity of speech, to just
(22:36):
let everything out there, letit flow without any giant boulders
in the river is a.
Is a true gift.
And I do think that'ssomething we can all do for people
still, you know, like practicethe art of listening and really listening
and not listening, because youare waiting for your chance to speak,
which a lot of us get caughtup in.
Hey, we're podcasters.
We do that too.
(22:56):
It's fine.
But.
Well, I don't know.
I mean, I would say that thispodcasting journey has taught me
how to listen, and maybe it'sthe direction that my podcast goes
and my goals with it, but Iused to be so much that person, like,
at work meetings that was justwaiting for the next silence so I
could say something superimpressive or ask a really profound
(23:19):
question that didn't really matter.
Meanwhile, I wasn't listeningto what was happening before, and
now I found the freedom.
And it sounds like you havekind of a structure.
You do a lot of research onyour guests, but you still have the
freedom to let things go andmove on with wherever your guest
is going.
And that was like, the biggestthing I learned, that I might have
(23:40):
had this great question whilethis person was talking, but yet
they took a sharp left, andthat question no longer matters.
And to have the ability tothrow that question away and go wherever
this conversation is going wassuch a learning experience for me,
and I'm just so grateful for it.
So, yes, listen.
Listen to everyone.
You're so right.
Active listening is one of thegreatest lessons from podcasting.
(24:03):
And I think our shows aresimilar in the sense that we have
the boundaries and the topicand the general gist and feeling
of the show because it's us.
We're there every time, but weare able to kind of go with the flow.
And you can really only dothat if you listen.
There was a guest on once.
I think it was Mike Cabellon.
I want to quote the rightperson who said something really
(24:25):
great.
I think one of his kindness.
Jack Nicholson was.
It was Jack Nicholson.
It was Sara Barilla's.
And it was, you guys pick my grandma.
And he said something alongthe lines of his kindness tip was
staying curious.
But he gave sort of anactionable tip, which I, you know,
I love.
And it was when someone'stalking to you and you ask, you know,
how their day was, and theysay, oh, you know, I took my dog
(24:47):
for a walk, and I went to thesupermarket, and, you know, then
I stopped by my grandma's.
It's sort of like if you'relistening for something out of the
ordinary or weird or specific,and that example I gave isn't necessarily
something along those lines,but then you can have something to
ask about next.
And so that's kind of a niceway to practice active listening,
(25:08):
especially as we go to partiesthis season and all that kind of
stuff.
It's like if you're just kindof saying the hi, how are you?
And going through the motionsand then waiting to talk about how
this year you did X, Y, and Z,well, you're not really listening,
but if you hear someone says,oh, before this, I was at, you know,
our uncle's house.
Oh, well, how was that party?
Oh, who was there?
You kind of.
It leads to more of aninteresting conversation.
(25:29):
So I found that to be a greatway to practice active listening,
being.
Genuinely curious about peoplethat you're interested in knowing
better.
And I think there's such value.
And I've learned this.
And this is.
I mean, something you werejust saying triggered it, but.
Oh, having a.
Like, redoing this episode, ornot redoing it, but like, revisiting
(25:51):
telling my story.
Even in this journey of thelife shift, I challenge my guests,
and it's really hard because Ithink we don't have one pivotal moment
in our lives.
We have many.
Right.
And so I.
I asked the guests to get asspecific as possible about one that
we feel kind of changed us themost or pushed us in a different
direction.
And when I started that, and Ithink even in that episode, it was
(26:12):
like, oh, well, my mom diedwhen I was 8.
And as I reflect more, eventhe way that I tell that story, my
life shift is not necessarilywhen she died.
It was when, five hours later,when my dad had to sit me down and
tell me that she died.
And so that conversation withmy father was really what changed
my life.
And it's interesting to thinkback at that.
(26:35):
Whereas, like, the 10 yearsago, Matt would never have even considered
that as to be kind of thatshifting moment.
And so, yeah, it might beinteresting to revisit that.
And if you want to do it, youare welcome to do that.
I would love to.
I'd be honored.
That's very interesting.
And it's.
It's almost like multiple things.
Have you found this, I guess,are a part of a shift?
(26:55):
There's sort of a formula to ashift because you were raised a certain
way.
So all those moments leadingup to your dad sitting you down,
although that was the shift,it's how you responded to it and
reacted that I guess put youin that next direction.
And that was because of X, Y,and Z.
So it's such a complicatedthing, which is what makes your episode
(27:17):
so interesting.
Yeah.
And then, I mean, it's been ajourney that I never could have imagined
for myself, and I hope thesame for your own podcasting journey
and the things that you'reaccomplishing with that.
Your.
You have a.
You're part of a network.
You get to do all these red carpets.
And you were doing thatbefore, maybe, but now it's part
of the podcast.
(27:38):
Yeah, it's so much fun.
Oh, thank you.
I was doing it a bit before,but then the Broadway Podcast network
kindly asked me to do it withthem, and it kind of snowballed,
and now I do it without themwith them, and I have such a fun
time.
You know, it's unhinged.
It's just fun.
I'm someone similar to you.
I want to ask sort of really,maybe deep questions sometimes and
(27:59):
interesting questions, but ared carpet's not the place for that,
so you got to ask a lot ofsilly things.
The one I can squeeze in is akindness tip that's been fun or.
Or a dad joke, something specific.
We got that.
This most recently.
The dad joke.
Yes.
The cheesy thing that was atthe opening night of Harmony, because
there were some sort of clearinstructions about what to get into,
(28:20):
what not to get into.
And, yeah, I found that to be fun.
So it's interesting becauseyou get to talk to people maybe that
you wouldn't get to have onyour show, but you do have to ask
them kind of like three snappy questions.
So.
I enjoy it.
You know, I like to feed offthat crazy energy.
Yeah, you have a lot of it,and I think that's what I.
You know, even if I.
(28:40):
It's not.
That's a compliment, by the way.
No, I dig it there.
Even if I don't know whoyou're talking to for, like.
Because I think the originalappeal to your podcast for me was,
like, the people you weretalking to.
And the more that I listen,the energy that you bring to those
conversations and the genuinecuriosity and the kindness that you
(29:02):
show them in that space iswhat keeps me listen.
I mean, I know you now, but.
But it keeps me listening.
I think that that is justlike, it doesn't matter who's on
now.
Right.
It's just like, you bring suchgreat energy, and I can imagine those
red carpets are a blast for you.
Probably exhausting, but alsoa blast for you.
(29:23):
What's.
Like.
You've been doing those a lotmore recently.
What's changed since July in.
In your world?
You got to do your honeymoon.
Congratulations on that.
Oh, yeah, just.
Oh, thank you.
Delayed honeymoon was a goodtime in the Bahamas.
Hey, Shout out.
Swam with pigs.
Changed my life.
That was a life shift.
We'll have to have you back onabout the pigs.
(29:45):
Yeah, different episode.
Sorry, I elevated an oink, actually.
Yeah, a lot's been going onsince July, I guess.
Wow.
So much.
I mean, the honeymoon, thepodcast stuff.
What show did you do?
You did something?
Oh, I did.
So I did Beauty and the Beastagain, which was fun.
And then I did Jersey Boys.
(30:05):
Jersey Boys.
Really fun.
Such a fast paced show.
And I think both of them weregreat experiences because of the
people.
You know, even sometimes in ashow, if you sort of have, I hate
to say it, one rotten egg,someone who's keeping the drama backstage
instead of on stage, then itcan drag down the experience.
But they both had suchwonderful folks that I now consider
(30:27):
part of my little theater families.
You know, you make theselittle families every time you do
a show, so that's why thosetwo experiences were great.
But, yeah, I've just been hanging.
Going along.
What's new with you?
Well, this is not about me.
Since July, you work withkindness.org too, so.
I do.
I have an episode coming up with.
(30:49):
With one of your bosses.
I know.
It's so funny to hear hercalled a boss because she certainly
is a boss.
An impressive powerhouse of a person.
And instead of.
But I'll say.
And at the same time, I dosocial media for them.
They're one of the rareclients where I just feel like I
can talk to anybody in the organization.
(31:10):
You know, the first meeting Ihad with them initially was just
because of my podcast.
I was interested in learningmore and it sort of organically snowballed
into me taking them on as a client.
And I've just really beenblown away at the culture over there.
They really try not to justtalk the talk of kindness, but walk
the walk.
So meetings, even for reallytechnical stuff will start with sort
(31:32):
of an opening question of howdid kindness show up for you this
week?
Or what's something that madeyou smile this morning?
I mean, just like things likethat where it.
It sort of brings the human tothe forefront, especially in a remote
setting.
You know, we can all justbecome little typing bots.
And that's been really nice.
But yes, Jacqueline Lindsaybelieves she'll be your guest.
(31:54):
I know she had a very profoundtime and, you know, she was saying
it was a challenge in a goodway and it really pushed her.
So I can't wait to hear that episode.
I'm sure it's gonna be anamazing one.
I know a bit about her storyand she's an incredible person.
You know, I don't go intothese episodes different from you.
I don't go into these episodeswith a lot of research.
(32:15):
I don't want to know a tonabout my guests and their backstory,
I think, because for me, Istart to make assumptions or I kind
of.
Kind of put out the path thatI think we're going to go on.
That conversation andJacqueline's conversation, I knew
just a very little bit about it.
I was 100% unexpectedconversation and journey that she
(32:40):
went on, and it was just alovely conversation.
A very true, honest, open.
I'm not hiding anything.
And I loved it, you know,because as humans, like, we're not
perfect, and there's so manyparts of our lives that are messy
and.
(33:01):
And not pretty, if you will.
And, you know, those are theparts that I think make us the most
interesting, and I think theybring us to different points.
And I was just so honored thatyou made that connection and that
she wanted to do it.
And it'll be out in January, so.
I can't wait to listen.
I'm so glad.
And she's such a wonderfullistener, too, as well as someone
(33:23):
who speaks in such an eloquent way.
So it'll be an interesting mixto hear her have to do most of the
talking, because althoughshe's a great speaker, you know,
I just find she's so such acurious person.
I would be surprised if shedidn't try and ask you questions,
too.
You know, I've recorded somany since, so I can't tell you if
she did.
I can't remember.
But we'll all have to tune in.
(33:44):
To find out, most definitely.
And so kind of to wrap thisup, I appreciate your time, and I
love that the Patreon membersget to hear a little bit more about
your experiences and all ofyour misnamed celebrities and their
quotes that you've given us today.
I'm usually pretty good, butyou got.
Your Lisa Rinna lip, so we'rejust gonna.
Oh, did you catch that?
I feel bad.
(34:04):
No.
Shame.
But she's always talkingabout, you know, owning the.
The lips.
They're pretty iconic.
And so I.
She's known for that.
Yeah.
And every time I see her withlong hair, I'm like, I don't.
This doesn't.
Because I used to watch withmy grandmother.
I used to watch Days of OurLives, and she was on it, and she
always had short hair.
Oh, wow.
So, yeah.
Anyway, fun fact for peoplelistening, I'd love to kind of End
(34:26):
these with, like, a questionabout storytelling and the power
of storytelling.
Is there anything that youfound in your journey through acting
and having your podcasts andtalking to other people?
What would you say is the.
The best part about tellingyour own story?
Ooh, this is a good question.
You know, while you weretalking, and I thought the question
(34:46):
was going to go one way, butthen I kept following you, so I paid
attention.
I fought my add.
I was thinking how shifts andthe theme of your podcast are such
a huge part of storytelling,obviously, but for an actor, that's
something you identify.
And, you know, some might callit the inciting incident and then
the climax in every scene.
The shifts are the beats.
(35:07):
They're what make a scene a scene.
They give the conflict.
They're interesting.
And so I guess in telling my story.
So whether the theme of thepodcast was the shift or not, I would
have talked about this storyand shared a bit about my brother,
because that is my story.
That is sort of the majoritything in my life.
I think I wrote my collegeessay on it, you know, so, yeah,
(35:31):
it's.
It's part of who I am.
And I think.
I guess.
I don't know if I'm reallyanswering your question, but I think
it helped.
Form in a positive way youridentity and your connection to kindness
because of the things that youexperienced around your brother's
illness and then his passing,and the things that you saw other
(35:52):
people doing for you, for yourfamily, the people around you.
I think it just, you know,like, if we ignore certain parts
of our story and we only tellthe bright, shiny, beautiful pieces,
we're missing the point.
I think we wouldn't understandwhy you do.
The art of kindness.
(36:12):
Yes.
And I will say, too, it's allabout the different ingredients that
make up sort of the pie we'reserving to keep with the Sara Burles
theme later in life.
Because my brother's story,which is, again, a part of mine,
and what happened to him andhis passing and going through cancer
and how the community ralliedaround us, and we saw so much kindness,
(36:32):
from nurses and doctors toneighbors who would, you know, set
up a meal train for us, thatwas something that informed me as
a person, taught me so muchabout kindness, you know?
Cause growing up in a smalltown in New Jersey that was very
preppy and had a lot ofbullying and sort of quote, unquote,
I hate to say, I guess, snobbypeople, maybe to survive, people
(36:55):
weren't always leading withkindness, myself included.
I was always cracking jokes.
I was always Trying to be veryinclusive and friends with everybody.
But that didn't mean I wasmaybe using kindness in the way I
should.
And so to have this happenchanged me as a person.
And then later in life, itreally hit home during the pandemic
(37:15):
with my other experiences ofentertainment and sort of the other
side of kindness and seeingthe lack of it maybe sometimes.
And so those ingredients sortof what were made the art of kindness.
So I think you're right.
It's like you can't have onewithout the other.
And it's also just reallyimportant on a level of human connection.
(37:36):
Because if you want togenuinely connect with someone, nobody
likes small talk, right?
I mean, it's really nice toask someone questions about how they
are in the weather and allthat, just to say hi and have that
little moment.
But what really connects usis, I guess, the tears we have.
You know, it's kind of aninteresting thing.
It's almost a paradox, too, intoday's world, where it's like you
(37:58):
have to disconnect to connect,like, shut the phone off to actually
connect with a human.
And I think it's a similar thing.
It's like we all go throughour own journeys and we have these
little tears that happen, butyou sort of need the tear to tie
together with someone else.
So I don't know why I alwaystry and get so poetic with you.
(38:18):
And the plane doesn't always land.
But I think you're right.
It's sort of what you saidvery succinctly in that you gotta
share, you know, the messinessof human is.
It's what makes us human.
And I found too, when youdon't have the answer in life and
you're going through a lot,sometimes it's okay to just say,
I'm human.
Well, I think I'll wrap thispiece up.
(38:42):
Is, I think, the power ofstorytelling and what you do and
the way that you approach,like, your guests.
A lot of your guests, like, are.
Are big names, right?
Like, people will look atthem, they'll stand at the stage
door and want their signature,and they'll want those things.
But the conversations that youhave make us realize that we're all
very similar, that everyone isjust living their life.
(39:06):
And someone might be at a different.
You might see them in brighterlights or whatever that may be.
But that doesn't mean youcan't connect with their human experience.
And I think the more that wecan share our stories, the more that
we'll be connected and realizethat we don't have that many differences
that we try to claim that we do.
Yeah.
And I'll say, too, there comesa point where.
(39:28):
And I think you're obviouslythere on your journey, and I.
I think I'm there on minewhere it's like you just don't want
to take everything so seriously.
You know, there comes a pointwhere it's like there is a lot of
laughter and grief.
You had an episode wheresomeone was talking about the power
of laughter.
I think her name was Debbie.
Deborah.
Yeah.
Did I make that up?
Debbie didn't make it up.
(39:48):
That was a great one.
Go listen, everybody.
And I think there's a lot oflight you can lean into too.
And sometimes over analysis is paralysis.
And so it's just such a fine line.
Right.
Like you don't ever want tolean too far in one direction.
And I do find that that sortof human connection is what keeps
us balanced.
You know, if you're having arough day, what helps you?
(40:10):
Maybe going out to see afriend and sort of taking you out
of your little microcosm ofyour bedroom or.
I always find.
Speaking of the honeymoon,when I'm up in a plane and I look
down on the world and I seeall the little ants and the cars
moving, that's very centeringfor me.
It reminds me that whateverI'm going through was just a tiny
dot over there.
And there's a lot, lot going on.
(40:31):
Doesn't mean my tiny dot's notimportant, but it does mean that
there are other importantstories being told as well.
And sometimes focusing onothers and feeding into others is.
Is important, if that makes sense.
I think it's also healing.
I think that, you know, thankyou for doing what you do.
Thank you for being a part of this.
Thank you for coming back andjust having a chat.
(40:52):
Whoops, I forgot to record.
No, I'm just kidding.
Everything is good andprobably for the best.
No.
Yeah.
No.
Those of you listening, Iappreciate, as an indie podcaster,
who does it all myself, Robertunderstands that.
I know you've offloaded acouple things, but it's still a heavy
lift.
So thank you guys for supporting.
We're gonna have Robert backto interview me when we do a follow
(41:15):
up of Matt's story at some point.
So we'll be old.
Thank you for doing this.
Yeah, well, too late.
I'm already old and gray, soyou'll be old and gray and I'll just
be.
I mean, I just fell the otherday, so I'm.
I'm getting there.
Thank you for having me yeah.
Thank you for doing this.
And I'll be back next monthwith another bonus episode.
Thank you.
(41:44):
For more information, pleasevisit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com.
Hello my friends.
I just wanted to drop somespecial bonus episodes into the feed
that you probably have notheard unless you are a part or an
early part of the Patreon forthe Life Shift podcast.
If you don't know, I do have a Patreon.
It currently only has two tiers.
One is a three dollar a monthtier just to support what I'm doing,
(00:22):
helps cover production costs.
And then there's a five dollartier which will get you episodes
early and just the, I guess,warm fuzzies for help out with the
Life Shift podcast.
But I used to have other tierswhere people were so generous and
were offering additional moneyeach month to get bonus episodes
and possible winnings of Tshirts and all sorts of things.
(00:46):
And then I realized a couplemonths ago that I wasn't able to
deliver what I wanted to,especially for those of you that
were giving me the extra money.
So right now we're just kindof doing the early episodes.
You'll always get those.
So if you want to support theLife Shift podcast, please jump over
to patreon.comforward/thelifeshiftpod podcast and
you can find that information there.
(01:06):
But I come on here because Iwant to share a series of these bonus
episodes that I did early onin the Patreon journey.
There are like 20 plusepisodes in which I had bonus recordings
with previous guests.
So I would go back and wewould have a conversation about the
experience of sharing theirstory on the Life Shift podcast.
(01:28):
Catch up on anything.
And I think these are superimportant and I know most of them
did not see the light of dayfrom outside of the Patreon.
So I'm going to be droppingthese episodes.
Whatever you're listening tonow is another episode.
So I'm going to use the sameintro for all of them.
But here is one of the bonusepisodes with a former guest from
(01:49):
the Life Shift podcast.
And if you like this, let meknow because I'm thinking of bringing
some of this back and talkingto previous guests as I go into year
four.
So enjoy this bonus episodethat was once released on the Patreon
feed.
I'm Matt Gilhooley and this isthe Life Shift Candid conversations
(02:10):
about the pivotal moments thathave changed lives forever.
I am here with my friend Robor Robert or which one do you like?
Peter Paul.
Francis is my middle name.
(02:31):
Rob is great.
Rob works.
Is Francis your middle name?
It is.
I also have a confirmationname if you want to really get into
it.
So I have.
I'd like that quite a fewRobert Francis Thomas Peter Paul.
Okay, so like all of the.
I would.
I can say this because my nameis Matthew John.
It's very like these genericboy names that you got.
(02:52):
All of them.
Yes.
All the saints were very holy.
I tell people sometimes thatmy parents maybe had like this like
a Bible dartboard, whichsounds really blasphemous, but in
which they were just likepicking names.
So anyway, Robert Peter Paul,thank you for being back.
We recorded your episode inMay of 2023 and then it was released
(03:13):
on 7 11, 2023.
And that was like ahappenstance event falling on the
11th, which an 11 is a specialnumber for you and your family.
Yeah, that was wild that thathappened that way.
I was obviously so honoredthat you asked me the first time.
I'm honored to be back andreflecting on it has been interesting.
(03:36):
You know, the number 11 meansa lot to my family and I think many
others because it istechnically some kind of angelic
number when you do research on it.
But don't fact check me.
It means a lot to my familybecause my brother Thomas was diagnosed
with cancer when he was 9 andthen he passed away at the age of
11 on 911 at 9 11pm and Iactually looked at the clock unknowingly
(04:03):
as a child at 911 when we wereall in the hotel room and he was
at the hospital with myparents and the adults, not knowingly,
I looked exactly at that time.
And I'm not joking, Matt.
I kind of forget this happens.
But at least every week, atleast once, I will look at the clock
randomly at 9:11.
It used to happen more frequently.
(04:24):
It's interesting that itdoesn't as much anymore or maybe
I'm just not as aware of it.
But yeah, the number 11's sortof like a wink from him now.
So when I see that and when Isaw that on your episode, it just
felt like, oh, wow, he tuned in.
You know, it was meant to be.
And something recently happened.
I can't remember what it is,but there was another 11 in which
(04:44):
some.
I don't know, I posted something.
It was related to you and itwas an 11.
And I can't remember what itwas, but I think there is something
about those numbers.
I have something very similarand one time I got the nerve, or
I don't know if it's nerve,but I went to see a medium and they
were like, your mom, like, iscommunicating with you every time.
Do you see a number all thetime basically?
(05:06):
And I was like, yeah.
And they're like, well, that'show your mom is like letting you
know that she's there.
And I was like, wow, okay, somaybe, maybe you have something to
add.
So interesting.
Did you enjoy your experiencewith the medium?
I'm fascinated by this.
Yeah, I think it was.
It's hard because sometimes,like, I think there's a lot of skepticism
in my brain.
I'm not someone that's superspiritual or I don't know if I believe
(05:30):
all that stuff and I don'tknow if that's informed by just losing
someone so early in my life,but I went into it kind of open minded
and what I liked about it wasthat this particular person, she
didn't.
She asked you to like create afake email address to sign up for
it because she didn't want youto think that she was gonna like
google you or figure outinformation about your life.
(05:54):
And so.
And I didn't have the podcastyet, so nobody knew that my mom was
dead.
Now everyone knows because Italk about it every single week.
But it was really interesting.
And you know, some of it waslike, oh yeah, that might resonate
and others were, I don't know.
So I'm still on the fence.
But it was interesting.
And some of the stuff that didconnect, maybe I just need to hear,
(06:14):
you know, and maybe it's true,maybe it's not true, but it kind
of was this nice little,little part of a healing journey.
So that's the great part about it.
If it brings you some kind ofjoy, to quote Marie Kondo, I guess,
or peace, you know, it wasworth it.
And I encourage everybody outthere who's grieving or has lost
someone to look for thesesigns and celebrate when see them
because I don't know, I don'tthink you have to believe in them,
(06:37):
although it's nice to.
I think it's just somethingthat can bring you comfort.
I mean, even if you attachthat, that is your brother sending
you a signal.
Yeah.
That can bring you peace orjoy or bring good memories to you.
So.
Yeah, I agree, I agree.
Yeah, it's a guide and itactually has helped me over the years,
believe it or not, the numberseeing it with things that have sort
(06:59):
of been meant to be.
I think we recently went on adelayed honeymoon.
I think our room number was 11or had 11 in it.
There's a lot of things likethat that are, that will happen to
us and it's sort of.
Yeah, it's a nice thing to seeon the journey.
That's kind of fun.
Yeah, you know, you have apodcast, the Art of Kindness, and
you just hit 100 episodes and.
Or 102 now, maybe.
(07:20):
I think we're like 106 today,which is.
Oh, funny.
Well, then I got lost.
Yeah, you did some replays andthings like that.
But in any case, your 100thepisode, you talked to Carol Burnett.
And I know this is not aboutyour story, but hello.
That's so cool.
What was your life like onthat moment?
It was such an honor, youknow, I thought 100.
I'm always looking for reasonsto celebrate, and I thought the 100th
(07:43):
was a really big, exciting thing.
As, you know, since you'vejust experienced it, it's an accomplishment.
And I think when you're apodcaster and you're sort of doing
all this on your own and it'sa lot of work, it's nice to just
stop and really think aboutall the time you've put into this
and what you've put out intothe world.
So suffice to say, I wanted tocelebrate it in a big way.
(08:04):
I was looking for a reallyexciting guest, although all of them
are exciting to me.
My network especially waslike, try and find somebody, you
know, that maybe you normallywouldn't try and ask.
So I.
I went wild.
I was putting all thesepitches out there.
I had secured on the down low.
I've actually haven't toldpeople this, but I had Sara Barilles
for a long time, which wouldhave been wonderful.
(08:24):
And hopefully, fingerscrossed, it will work out.
I also have a weird mouthinjury going on, people, so if I
stumble over, it's my giantLisa Rinna lip.
I will say that.
Yeah, I had all these thingsout and lovely feedback from people.
People were in, then they wereout because of the strike going on.
And so I had almost given up hope.
(08:44):
And then at 9:11pm I receivedan email.
Stop it.
It might have actually been no.
But I got an email fromCarol's team saying she would love
to, and she's very passionateabout kindness and, you know, listened
and loved it.
And so it happened.
I still can't believe it happened.
I tried my best not to blackout during it.
I did a little bit, but shewas everything you could hope for.
(09:07):
I feel like talking to her wasa warm hug and I could just sit back
and I felt like I was in thepresence of a family member.
And listeners have said thatthey said they felt like they were
dropping in on a phone callwith their.
Their grandma or somethinglike that.
You know, she's so beloved andI said this to her.
I'm like, you're universally loved.
She was like, no, I'm not.
No one is.
(09:27):
And, you know, that was ablanket statement, but I think she's
pretty darn close, so it wasan honor.
Next time, for your 200th, itwill be Dolly Parton, because I know
that that's your ultimate.
Put that out there, my friend.
We gotta make that happen.
And with that, if you do endup talking to Sara Bareilles, tell
her that I am her favorite orshe's my favorite, and both we're
gonna be best friends at somepoint in this.
(09:48):
I remember that about you.
That's why I felt like lettingthe cat out of the bag there.
And if it works out, I'mdefinitely gonna send the team your
show and just be.
Thank you.
If you're interested, I would.
I'm gonna hold you to that.
But.
Well, it's recorded now, so.
Yeah, exactly.
Gotta do it.
So with the Art of Kindness,though, you're talking to these people
in the entertainment industry.
(10:09):
You're talking to them about,you know, like, what they think kindness
is and what kind ofexperiences in their lives have they
kind of seen kindness extendedto them and.
And kind of given them a leg up.
And then when you came on myshow, you told something maybe a
little bit more personal thatyou don't necessarily share too many
details on in your own, youknow, on your own podcast.
(10:32):
What was that like for you?
I know you've told your storybefore, you've told it in front of
Congress and those kind of things.
Was there anything that, afterour conversation, made you think
anything different than you'vetold it before?
A couple things.
You know, I gotta give it to you.
You are a fantasticinterviewer, which I've said before.
And I think one of the greatqualities you possess is listening,
(10:54):
and you throw out sort ofquestions or statements that elicit
really wonderful answers inyour guests.
And, you know, just as alistener, I say that.
So then to be in the seat andexperience it, I did find myself
saying things and sort ofthinking of things, even semi poetically,
with.
I said something about awindow with.
That was cracked with the suncoming through.
(11:15):
I don't even know.
But, yeah, there was.
There was a lot that came upfor me that by the end of it, I had
that feeling that you feelafter sort of expelling a lot of
energy in a good way.
And it felt like a very safeplace to be.
And so, I guess reflecting onthat time, one of the things that
I really Took away was.
(11:37):
And I feel like, helps meactually grow as a person.
Was.
Maybe I don't remember if itwas the middle of the conversation,
but I think multiple times.
And you've said this on yourshow, you were saying how you closed
the door on grief.
And usually I'm just a very.
I guess I try and.
Yes.
And.
And always agree with people,even if I don't.
And it's not that I didn'tagree with you, but I just, in that
(11:59):
moment was like, I don't knowif I have closed the door in grief.
Yeah, I feel like it was anawesome moment.
Like I felt weird sort ofsaying something different, but I
felt it led the conversationinto an interesting place and.
And reflecting on that today,I actually, I don't really subscribe
necessarily to saying peopleare right.
Right or wrong.
But you're wrong.
(12:19):
No, I'm just kidding.
I think that we're both quote,unquote, right because we both have
our own experiences.
But I was also reallyreflecting on what you said and how
powerful it was in the factthat you can close the door on grief,
but behind the door, it'sstill there.
There's still sort of a house there.
So I sort of have combined ourtwo thoughts now.
(12:40):
And looking back on it, Iguess that's how I.
I feel and what I took away.
You know, I'm able to share mystory without sort of falling back
into it and sort of fallingback in love with my trauma and my
grief.
I think that's something thathappens to people.
People are in love with theirtrauma whether they know it or not,
and they can't get out of the,you know, merry go round they're
(13:03):
in, which I certainly haveexperienced with people.
And so to be able to sayyou've closed the door on grief is
an interesting sentiment andsomething I think I reflected on
a lot after our conversation.
Among other things, I will say that.
You pushing back on that, notpushing back.
But you've also said thatthat's not what I meant, you know,
in a way that you say not saying.
(13:24):
Yes.
And for me, since then, I'mlike, well, maybe I didn't mean.
Maybe I was telling myself that.
But I think what you justsaid, that we're both kind of right
in.
In our own ways because griefis different for everyone.
My grief journey feels sodifferent or feels so separate from
(13:44):
so many times that I've talkedto other people about their journey
because I don't remember my mom.
And so it's hard to like, it'sAlmost like I grieve what I didn't
have.
More so than.
Than her loss.
Because at this point in 35years later, 34 years later, it's
(14:05):
more of like, this figment,because there's not like you don't.
I don't know, it just feelsdifferent for me.
And so.
But every time I go to say it,when I'm having a conversation with
someone else, I always thinkof you because I think it's important.
I think there is somethingnice about podcasting where we don't
have to be like, yes, andwhere we can just be like, no, I
(14:27):
don't really agree with that,or no, I didn't feel that way.
And that's such a beauty of,like, storytelling and having this
space.
And I think you probably feelthis too.
When people define kindness ina way that's like, oh, I never thought
of that before.
When you ask them to define kindness.
Yeah, I love it.
I actually.
I've started to really embraceand love differing opinions as a
(14:50):
people pleaser.
It's interesting, but it's hard.
Well, as we grow older, don'tyou feel like you want to surround
yourself with people thatchallenge you and maybe give you
a new idea?
And I really think it's coolthat we are both sort of thinking
about the same little momentwhere it's not like we.
We quote, unquote, disagree.
There's not like a word forit, I guess.
It's so ambiguous and personal.
But it stuck with us, itaffected us, and it kind of shifted
(15:12):
our view.
And I think that's somethingwe all need more of in this world,
is just to listen to eachother and maybe not take on someone's
view, but sort of let it lifeshift your own, sort of mold your
own along the way.
So it's kind of cool.
Have you read this Is Random,where the Crawdads Sing?
I haven't read this yet.
Just closed it last night.
(15:33):
And there's a big through linewith the loss of a mother that I
think you might find interesting.
It is a work of fiction.
It's beautifully written.
I'm sure the author maybeexperienced something like it in
real life, but something youjust said made me think.
I don't want to spoil it.
That you might all rightthings away from that.
Yeah.
And if we're talking aboutbooks, have you read Tomorrow and
(15:53):
Tomorrow and Tomorrow?
Oh, you know, I have.
God, I can't stop thinkingabout it.
I read it this year.
The Patreon people are like,why are they talking about books?
This is not a book podcast.
But seriously, if you'relistening, read that book.
It's tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.
I can't think of the author.
Is it Levin or something like that?
Oh, Gabrielle Zevin, Ibelieve, With a Z.
Yes.
Who's a fantastic author.
(16:15):
Also wrote a great book calledthe storied life of Ag.
A.J.
fickery, I believe.
Which if you're a book loverout there, and you probably are,
if you're still tuned intothis, because we're going off on
books, I recommend it.
It's got everything, you know,romance, mystery.
Awesome.
She's a great author.
Yeah.
But I love that book too.
It was so good.
And I will read the other one.
I think I didn't read it yetbecause I had a friend that said
(16:37):
this is not possible, whateverhappens in the book.
So, in any case, you know,we're talking about the power of
storytelling.
And for me, having told mystory in so many different ways now,
over 100 plus episodes, I'mrecording 117 later today.
So, like, it's just likethere's a lot.
And I say my story a lot, andI think every time I say it, there's
some kind of healing in itbecause other people are listening.
(16:59):
They'll reach out to me, like,hey, Matt, you said this this time,
you know, like, let's talkabout that.
I know you shared your episode.
You were apprehensive a littlebit at first to share your episode
with some of your familymembers, but some of your family
members listened and you hadone reaction that I thought maybe
we could chat about.
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Well, what's interesting, too,about what you just said is it reminds
(17:20):
me, I think, of.
I think it's Jack Nicholson orAnthony Hopkins.
Oh, gosh, why am I meshingthem together?
But there's an actor who saidthey don't need to do any analysis
or work, which I don't know ifI believe that all they do is read
the script at least 200 times,and then they know everything they
need to know about the story.
So I think as you continue totell your story hundreds of times,
(17:41):
that's you getting to know it.
Like, the more you tell it,the more you know it and the more
you understand something, theless power, I guess it can have over
you in a negative way.
So that's interesting.
I think I saw that on Instagram.
But scrolling down to youractual question, when you.
Yes, when.
When you shared the episode,you had said to me too.
I.
I think you'll find thatPeople have surprising reactions
(18:03):
to this and I was nervous toshare it with some folks.
One person I wasn'tnecessarily nervous to share it with,
who would have listened to iteither way because she has been just
one of my greatest championsin life.
And I know you have a similarrelationship with your grandmother.
Is my nanny, who I told CarolBurnett about as well because she
also did.
(18:24):
She's in the grandma club withus and I just love her so much.
And I pulled up.
Actually, that's why I'm pausing.
I'm pulling it up right now.
I found her initial text thatshe sent me after she listened to
the episode and I'll read itto you.
We certainly had a much longerphone call after this, but she said
(18:44):
this was in July.
I finally listened to yourinterview on Life Shift.
Oh, Robert, your words put adent in my heart.
I learned so much more aboutyour quote unquote story.
So much I didn't know aboutyour experience.
Hope we can talk about this ifyou feel comfortable doing so.
Brave, brilliant man you are.
(19:04):
What a gift to listeners,which is such a grandma thing to
say.
And she's so sweet.
But then we had this lovelyphone call where I feel like we're
so close and have alwaysshared everything, but because I
sat down with you and took thetime to I guess just start talking
about it and things came up Ihadn't maybe processed or talk talked
about before.
(19:25):
She had questions and morethings to discuss.
And it was such a gift.
I mean, it was.
Thank you for opening the doorfor that conversation.
There were certainly followups with even my parents who listened
that I didn't expect.
And I think because of the wayyou helped me tell it in such a respectful
(19:46):
setting, it allowed for thatnobody was upset.
Yeah.
You know what's really cooltoo about your podcast is that while
it's inspiring to listen to,it's also sort of a reminder on a
simple level that this issomething free everybody can do.
If you just take the time.
You don't need to have apodcast mic to sit down for a half
(20:07):
hour or an hour with somebodyand have this conversation and maybe
prepare questions.
That's kind of fun.
My grandma always does thatwhen I see her.
She always has a.
You said that somewhere recently.
A list.
I think I made it a kindness tip.
I'm getting really low on those.
I gotta figure out creative ones.
But yeah, she would alwayshave sort of a cue card of things
to ask me about, which Ithought was so wonderful.
So just being curious aboutpeople and doing that is a gift,
(20:31):
so thank you for that.
And I encourage people outthere to have these conversations
with their loved ones, whetherthey're on a podcast or not.
Yeah, I think.
You know what?
I had a very similar experience.
I recorded my story with.
I had my first episode, guestkind of flip roles with me, and I
got to tell my story.
And I think, what's thereason, you know, like, my dad listened
(20:53):
to that, and my dad and Ilived that same experience, but he
saw it from his lens.
He saw it from what he was,you know, seeing and experiencing.
And anytime you have theseconversations, like, maybe even the
conversations that you hadwith your grandmother since your.
Your brother passed, there'salways interruptions, right?
Because you're like, oh, no, Ididn't see it that way.
(21:14):
And.
And this allowed you to tellsomeone that didn't know your story
that full story, beginning toend, without getting that, oh, no,
that's not how it happened.
And.
And it kind of.
So when, like, my dad heard myepisode, he's like, oh, I, like,
totally didn't mean for thatexperience to be that way.
And I was like, I know.
It was just how I experiencedit, not how you experienced it.
(21:34):
And so maybe that was alsokind of.
Even though you've had theseconversations with your grandmother,
she heard you tell it in a waythat was uninterrupted and, you know,
in a way that was.
You were telling it to adifferent person, you know, So I
think there's always suchvalue in that, too, that we never
really think of asstorytellers or as people that like
to kind of share their story.
(21:55):
So, yeah, I think it'swonderful that.
You have security, and I wouldlove to see sort of.
Well, hopefully you neverstop, but down the line at the.
Toward the end of the podcastjourney or just a later episode,
you with maybe that sameperson or someone else.
I'm around if you want to tellthat story again.
Because it's interesting tosort of have this time capsule now
(22:16):
where it's like, well, at thatmoment, that's what I reflected on.
That's how I felt about it.
That's kind of what I tookaway from the experience.
But, you know, when I wasyounger, I probably would have said
the same truth but had adifferent feeling on it.
So you're right to have sortof the purity of speech, to just
(22:36):
let everything out there, letit flow without any giant boulders
in the river is a.
Is a true gift.
And I do think that'ssomething we can all do for people
still, you know, like practicethe art of listening and really listening
and not listening, because youare waiting for your chance to speak,
which a lot of us get caughtup in.
Hey, we're podcasters.
We do that too.
(22:56):
It's fine.
But.
Well, I don't know.
I mean, I would say that thispodcasting journey has taught me
how to listen, and maybe it'sthe direction that my podcast goes
and my goals with it, but Iused to be so much that person, like,
at work meetings that was justwaiting for the next silence so I
could say something superimpressive or ask a really profound
(23:19):
question that didn't really matter.
Meanwhile, I wasn't listeningto what was happening before, and
now I found the freedom.
And it sounds like you havekind of a structure.
You do a lot of research onyour guests, but you still have the
freedom to let things go andmove on with wherever your guest
is going.
And that was like, the biggestthing I learned, that I might have
(23:40):
had this great question whilethis person was talking, but yet
they took a sharp left, andthat question no longer matters.
And to have the ability tothrow that question away and go wherever
this conversation is going wassuch a learning experience for me,
and I'm just so grateful for it.
So, yes, listen.
Listen to everyone.
You're so right.
Active listening is one of thegreatest lessons from podcasting.
(24:03):
And I think our shows aresimilar in the sense that we have
the boundaries and the topicand the general gist and feeling
of the show because it's us.
We're there every time, but weare able to kind of go with the flow.
And you can really only dothat if you listen.
There was a guest on once.
I think it was Mike Cabellon.
I want to quote the rightperson who said something really
(24:25):
great.
I think one of his kindness.
Jack Nicholson was.
It was Jack Nicholson.
It was Sara Barilla's.
And it was, you guys pick my grandma.
And he said something alongthe lines of his kindness tip was
staying curious.
But he gave sort of anactionable tip, which I, you know,
I love.
And it was when someone'stalking to you and you ask, you know,
how their day was, and theysay, oh, you know, I took my dog
(24:47):
for a walk, and I went to thesupermarket, and, you know, then
I stopped by my grandma's.
It's sort of like if you'relistening for something out of the
ordinary or weird or specific,and that example I gave isn't necessarily
something along those lines,but then you can have something to
ask about next.
And so that's kind of a niceway to practice active listening,
(25:08):
especially as we go to partiesthis season and all that kind of
stuff.
It's like if you're just kindof saying the hi, how are you?
And going through the motionsand then waiting to talk about how
this year you did X, Y, and Z,well, you're not really listening,
but if you hear someone says,oh, before this, I was at, you know,
our uncle's house.
Oh, well, how was that party?
Oh, who was there?
You kind of.
It leads to more of aninteresting conversation.
(25:29):
So I found that to be a greatway to practice active listening,
being.
Genuinely curious about peoplethat you're interested in knowing
better.
And I think there's such value.
And I've learned this.
And this is.
I mean, something you werejust saying triggered it, but.
Oh, having a.
Like, redoing this episode, ornot redoing it, but like, revisiting
(25:51):
telling my story.
Even in this journey of thelife shift, I challenge my guests,
and it's really hard because Ithink we don't have one pivotal moment
in our lives.
We have many.
Right.
And so I.
I asked the guests to get asspecific as possible about one that
we feel kind of changed us themost or pushed us in a different
direction.
And when I started that, and Ithink even in that episode, it was
(26:12):
like, oh, well, my mom diedwhen I was 8.
And as I reflect more, eventhe way that I tell that story, my
life shift is not necessarilywhen she died.
It was when, five hours later,when my dad had to sit me down and
tell me that she died.
And so that conversation withmy father was really what changed
my life.
And it's interesting to thinkback at that.
(26:35):
Whereas, like, the 10 yearsago, Matt would never have even considered
that as to be kind of thatshifting moment.
And so, yeah, it might beinteresting to revisit that.
And if you want to do it, youare welcome to do that.
I would love to.
I'd be honored.
That's very interesting.
And it's.
It's almost like multiple things.
Have you found this, I guess,are a part of a shift?
(26:55):
There's sort of a formula to ashift because you were raised a certain
way.
So all those moments leadingup to your dad sitting you down,
although that was the shift,it's how you responded to it and
reacted that I guess put youin that next direction.
And that was because of X, Y,and Z.
So it's such a complicatedthing, which is what makes your episode
(27:17):
so interesting.
Yeah.
And then, I mean, it's been ajourney that I never could have imagined
for myself, and I hope thesame for your own podcasting journey
and the things that you'reaccomplishing with that.
Your.
You have a.
You're part of a network.
You get to do all these red carpets.
And you were doing thatbefore, maybe, but now it's part
of the podcast.
(27:38):
Yeah, it's so much fun.
Oh, thank you.
I was doing it a bit before,but then the Broadway Podcast network
kindly asked me to do it withthem, and it kind of snowballed,
and now I do it without themwith them, and I have such a fun
time.
You know, it's unhinged.
It's just fun.
I'm someone similar to you.
I want to ask sort of really,maybe deep questions sometimes and
(27:59):
interesting questions, but ared carpet's not the place for that,
so you got to ask a lot ofsilly things.
The one I can squeeze in is akindness tip that's been fun or.
Or a dad joke, something specific.
We got that.
This most recently.
The dad joke.
Yes.
The cheesy thing that was atthe opening night of Harmony, because
there were some sort of clearinstructions about what to get into,
(28:20):
what not to get into.
And, yeah, I found that to be fun.
So it's interesting becauseyou get to talk to people maybe that
you wouldn't get to have onyour show, but you do have to ask
them kind of like three snappy questions.
So.
I enjoy it.
You know, I like to feed offthat crazy energy.
Yeah, you have a lot of it,and I think that's what I.
You know, even if I.
(28:40):
It's not.
That's a compliment, by the way.
No, I dig it there.
Even if I don't know whoyou're talking to for, like.
Because I think the originalappeal to your podcast for me was,
like, the people you weretalking to.
And the more that I listen,the energy that you bring to those
conversations and the genuinecuriosity and the kindness that you
(29:02):
show them in that space iswhat keeps me listen.
I mean, I know you now, but.
But it keeps me listening.
I think that that is justlike, it doesn't matter who's on
now.
Right.
It's just like, you bring suchgreat energy, and I can imagine those
red carpets are a blast for you.
Probably exhausting, but alsoa blast for you.
(29:23):
What's.
Like.
You've been doing those a lotmore recently.
What's changed since July in.
In your world?
You got to do your honeymoon.
Congratulations on that.
Oh, yeah, just.
Oh, thank you.
Delayed honeymoon was a goodtime in the Bahamas.
Hey, Shout out.
Swam with pigs.
Changed my life.
That was a life shift.
We'll have to have you back onabout the pigs.
(29:45):
Yeah, different episode.
Sorry, I elevated an oink, actually.
Yeah, a lot's been going onsince July, I guess.
Wow.
So much.
I mean, the honeymoon, thepodcast stuff.
What show did you do?
You did something?
Oh, I did.
So I did Beauty and the Beastagain, which was fun.
And then I did Jersey Boys.
(30:05):
Jersey Boys.
Really fun.
Such a fast paced show.
And I think both of them weregreat experiences because of the
people.
You know, even sometimes in ashow, if you sort of have, I hate
to say it, one rotten egg,someone who's keeping the drama backstage
instead of on stage, then itcan drag down the experience.
But they both had suchwonderful folks that I now consider
(30:27):
part of my little theater families.
You know, you make theselittle families every time you do
a show, so that's why thosetwo experiences were great.
But, yeah, I've just been hanging.
Going along.
What's new with you?
Well, this is not about me.
Since July, you work withkindness.org too, so.
I do.
I have an episode coming up with.
(30:49):
With one of your bosses.
I know.
It's so funny to hear hercalled a boss because she certainly
is a boss.
An impressive powerhouse of a person.
And instead of.
But I'll say.
And at the same time, I dosocial media for them.
They're one of the rareclients where I just feel like I
can talk to anybody in the organization.
(31:10):
You know, the first meeting Ihad with them initially was just
because of my podcast.
I was interested in learningmore and it sort of organically snowballed
into me taking them on as a client.
And I've just really beenblown away at the culture over there.
They really try not to justtalk the talk of kindness, but walk
the walk.
So meetings, even for reallytechnical stuff will start with sort
(31:32):
of an opening question of howdid kindness show up for you this
week?
Or what's something that madeyou smile this morning?
I mean, just like things likethat where it.
It sort of brings the human tothe forefront, especially in a remote
setting.
You know, we can all justbecome little typing bots.
And that's been really nice.
But yes, Jacqueline Lindsaybelieves she'll be your guest.
(31:54):
I know she had a very profoundtime and, you know, she was saying
it was a challenge in a goodway and it really pushed her.
So I can't wait to hear that episode.
I'm sure it's gonna be anamazing one.
I know a bit about her storyand she's an incredible person.
You know, I don't go intothese episodes different from you.
I don't go into these episodeswith a lot of research.
(32:15):
I don't want to know a tonabout my guests and their backstory,
I think, because for me, Istart to make assumptions or I kind
of.
Kind of put out the path thatI think we're going to go on.
That conversation andJacqueline's conversation, I knew
just a very little bit about it.
I was 100% unexpectedconversation and journey that she
(32:40):
went on, and it was just alovely conversation.
A very true, honest, open.
I'm not hiding anything.
And I loved it, you know,because as humans, like, we're not
perfect, and there's so manyparts of our lives that are messy
and.
(33:01):
And not pretty, if you will.
And, you know, those are theparts that I think make us the most
interesting, and I think theybring us to different points.
And I was just so honored thatyou made that connection and that
she wanted to do it.
And it'll be out in January, so.
I can't wait to listen.
I'm so glad.
And she's such a wonderfullistener, too, as well as someone
(33:23):
who speaks in such an eloquent way.
So it'll be an interesting mixto hear her have to do most of the
talking, because althoughshe's a great speaker, you know,
I just find she's so such acurious person.
I would be surprised if shedidn't try and ask you questions,
too.
You know, I've recorded somany since, so I can't tell you if
she did.
I can't remember.
But we'll all have to tune in.
(33:44):
To find out, most definitely.
And so kind of to wrap thisup, I appreciate your time, and I
love that the Patreon membersget to hear a little bit more about
your experiences and all ofyour misnamed celebrities and their
quotes that you've given us today.
I'm usually pretty good, butyou got.
Your Lisa Rinna lip, so we'rejust gonna.
Oh, did you catch that?
I feel bad.
(34:04):
No.
Shame.
But she's always talkingabout, you know, owning the.
The lips.
They're pretty iconic.
And so I.
She's known for that.
Yeah.
And every time I see her withlong hair, I'm like, I don't.
This doesn't.
Because I used to watch withmy grandmother.
I used to watch Days of OurLives, and she was on it, and she
always had short hair.
Oh, wow.
So, yeah.
Anyway, fun fact for peoplelistening, I'd love to kind of End
(34:26):
these with, like, a questionabout storytelling and the power
of storytelling.
Is there anything that youfound in your journey through acting
and having your podcasts andtalking to other people?
What would you say is the.
The best part about tellingyour own story?
Ooh, this is a good question.
You know, while you weretalking, and I thought the question
(34:46):
was going to go one way, butthen I kept following you, so I paid
attention.
I fought my add.
I was thinking how shifts andthe theme of your podcast are such
a huge part of storytelling,obviously, but for an actor, that's
something you identify.
And, you know, some might callit the inciting incident and then
the climax in every scene.
The shifts are the beats.
(35:07):
They're what make a scene a scene.
They give the conflict.
They're interesting.
And so I guess in telling my story.
So whether the theme of thepodcast was the shift or not, I would
have talked about this storyand shared a bit about my brother,
because that is my story.
That is sort of the majoritything in my life.
I think I wrote my collegeessay on it, you know, so, yeah,
(35:31):
it's.
It's part of who I am.
And I think.
I guess.
I don't know if I'm reallyanswering your question, but I think
it helped.
Form in a positive way youridentity and your connection to kindness
because of the things that youexperienced around your brother's
illness and then his passing,and the things that you saw other
(35:52):
people doing for you, for yourfamily, the people around you.
I think it just, you know,like, if we ignore certain parts
of our story and we only tellthe bright, shiny, beautiful pieces,
we're missing the point.
I think we wouldn't understandwhy you do.
The art of kindness.
(36:12):
Yes.
And I will say, too, it's allabout the different ingredients that
make up sort of the pie we'reserving to keep with the Sara Burles
theme later in life.
Because my brother's story,which is, again, a part of mine,
and what happened to him andhis passing and going through cancer
and how the community ralliedaround us, and we saw so much kindness,
(36:32):
from nurses and doctors toneighbors who would, you know, set
up a meal train for us, thatwas something that informed me as
a person, taught me so muchabout kindness, you know?
Cause growing up in a smalltown in New Jersey that was very
preppy and had a lot ofbullying and sort of quote, unquote,
I hate to say, I guess, snobbypeople, maybe to survive, people
(36:55):
weren't always leading withkindness, myself included.
I was always cracking jokes.
I was always Trying to be veryinclusive and friends with everybody.
But that didn't mean I wasmaybe using kindness in the way I
should.
And so to have this happenchanged me as a person.
And then later in life, itreally hit home during the pandemic
(37:15):
with my other experiences ofentertainment and sort of the other
side of kindness and seeingthe lack of it maybe sometimes.
And so those ingredients sortof what were made the art of kindness.
So I think you're right.
It's like you can't have onewithout the other.
And it's also just reallyimportant on a level of human connection.
(37:36):
Because if you want togenuinely connect with someone, nobody
likes small talk, right?
I mean, it's really nice toask someone questions about how they
are in the weather and allthat, just to say hi and have that
little moment.
But what really connects usis, I guess, the tears we have.
You know, it's kind of aninteresting thing.
It's almost a paradox, too, intoday's world, where it's like you
(37:58):
have to disconnect to connect,like, shut the phone off to actually
connect with a human.
And I think it's a similar thing.
It's like we all go throughour own journeys and we have these
little tears that happen, butyou sort of need the tear to tie
together with someone else.
So I don't know why I alwaystry and get so poetic with you.
(38:18):
And the plane doesn't always land.
But I think you're right.
It's sort of what you saidvery succinctly in that you gotta
share, you know, the messinessof human is.
It's what makes us human.
And I found too, when youdon't have the answer in life and
you're going through a lot,sometimes it's okay to just say,
I'm human.
Well, I think I'll wrap thispiece up.
(38:42):
Is, I think, the power ofstorytelling and what you do and
the way that you approach,like, your guests.
A lot of your guests, like, are.
Are big names, right?
Like, people will look atthem, they'll stand at the stage
door and want their signature,and they'll want those things.
But the conversations that youhave make us realize that we're all
very similar, that everyone isjust living their life.
(39:06):
And someone might be at a different.
You might see them in brighterlights or whatever that may be.
But that doesn't mean youcan't connect with their human experience.
And I think the more that wecan share our stories, the more that
we'll be connected and realizethat we don't have that many differences
that we try to claim that we do.
Yeah.
And I'll say, too, there comesa point where.
(39:28):
And I think you're obviouslythere on your journey, and I.
I think I'm there on minewhere it's like you just don't want
to take everything so seriously.
You know, there comes a pointwhere it's like there is a lot of
laughter and grief.
You had an episode wheresomeone was talking about the power
of laughter.
I think her name was Debbie.
Deborah.
Yeah.
Did I make that up?
Debbie didn't make it up.
(39:48):
That was a great one.
Go listen, everybody.
And I think there's a lot oflight you can lean into too.
And sometimes over analysis is paralysis.
And so it's just such a fine line.
Right.
Like you don't ever want tolean too far in one direction.
And I do find that that sortof human connection is what keeps
us balanced.
You know, if you're having arough day, what helps you?
(40:10):
Maybe going out to see afriend and sort of taking you out
of your little microcosm ofyour bedroom or.
I always find.
Speaking of the honeymoon,when I'm up in a plane and I look
down on the world and I seeall the little ants and the cars
moving, that's very centeringfor me.
It reminds me that whateverI'm going through was just a tiny
dot over there.
And there's a lot, lot going on.
(40:31):
Doesn't mean my tiny dot's notimportant, but it does mean that
there are other importantstories being told as well.
And sometimes focusing onothers and feeding into others is.
Is important, if that makes sense.
I think it's also healing.
I think that, you know, thankyou for doing what you do.
Thank you for being a part of this.
Thank you for coming back andjust having a chat.
(40:52):
Whoops, I forgot to record.
No, I'm just kidding.
Everything is good andprobably for the best.
No.
Yeah.
No.
Those of you listening, Iappreciate, as an indie podcaster,
who does it all myself, Robertunderstands that.
I know you've offloaded acouple things, but it's still a heavy
lift.
So thank you guys for supporting.
We're gonna have Robert backto interview me when we do a follow
(41:15):
up of Matt's story at some point.
So we'll be old.
Thank you for doing this.
Yeah, well, too late.
I'm already old and gray, soyou'll be old and gray and I'll just
be.
I mean, I just fell the otherday, so I'm.
I'm getting there.
Thank you for having me yeah.
Thank you for doing this.
And I'll be back next monthwith another bonus episode.
Thank you.
(41:44):
For more information, pleasevisit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.