Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Thank you.
David Kotz (00:05):
Good afternoon,
everyone.
It's Dave Kotz from the NationalSafety Training Center here with
the LifeSaving Chronicles.
We have a special guest, Mr.
Steven Murphy.
We're going to talk about ther.24 lifeguarding program with a
particular focus on lifeguardinstructor recertification.
Steve, tell us all aboutyourself.
Steve Murphy (00:27):
Thanks for having
me on board and what is there to
say?
I've been in aquatics 14 years.
I started off as a lifeguard inmy late 30s and then just slowly
worked my way through the pathI've been on without any real
goal in mind other than to havea summer job.
I've been a head lifeguard,supervisor, instructor, lived in
(00:50):
Starguard I've done some Ellis,four years of that and, but my
main home is American Red Cross.
So I'm currently a lifeguardinstructor trainer and also a
water safety instructor trainer.
Currently the owner and operatorof, MATES or Missouri Aquatics
Training and EducationSolutions.
We've been around since 2021 andwe basically travel around and
(01:13):
train people very much like youdo with your organization.
Before all that, I did six yearstotal in the Army and then the
Army National Guard.
I went to Operation DesertStorm.
I don't recommend that.
You can avoid going, but Yeah,it So definitely people are
like, wow, couldn't you havechosen not to go?
And it's the army doesn't workthat way.
They do not ask you where youwant to go.
(01:33):
So I did six years total.
I have a bachelor's and master'sin history.
And so I teach as an adjunctinstructor of history at a local
community college, which is howit is I needed to get into
aquatics anyway, because usuallythere's no summer classes to
teach.
And the one time I taught, Thewhole time I'm standing in the
classroom just looking out thewindow going.
(01:55):
And my students didn't want tobe there either.
And I thought, that's, theuniverse is talking to me.
I've done a lot of differentthings.
And, right now I consider myselfto be part time everything.
part time this, part time that.
David Kotz (02:06):
Let's talk a little
bit about the new Red Cross
lifeguarding r.24 program.
Have you taught the basic levelr.24 yet?
Steve Murphy (02:14):
No.
David Kotz (02:15):
Nor have I.
We're seem to be holding off onthat for a couple more months.
I know some people have a cacheof r.17 manuals and other
equipment, and they're just veryfamiliar with it.
I think also the reason might bea lot of us have started
teaching the r.24 lifeguardinstructor recertification
(02:37):
process and that process ischallenging.
Every time we have a new launchof a program, despite the fact
that r.17 lifeguarding and r.24are exceedingly similar from a
product capability.
We haven't changed a lot of thecontent, but administratively,
we have made some significantchanges.
(02:57):
When you're doing the lifeguardinstructor recertification, how
is that going for you and thepeople that you're teaching?
Steve Murphy (03:06):
By guidance that
we've received, we use the
limited lifeguarding instructortrainer for recertification.
And that, my understanding isthat variant, It has all the
updated information in it, wherea standard LGI, LGIT r.24 is
missing one module.
It's missing the update.
(03:27):
Now to be clear on- this isimportant to know.
If you're going to teach thelimited, or even the other one
later, you have to go throughthe online update.
You have to, as an LGI or anLGIT.
The only one that's doing itwould be LGIT.
Now, on the other hand, ifyou're in LGIT and you don't
want to do that, then what youdo is you find somebody like me
(03:47):
who's already done it, and thenI resubmit, and then you can get
around.
David Kotz (03:50):
What you're saying
as an IT, you either have to
take the course or you can coteach the course with another
IT.
That what I hear you saying?
Steve Murphy (03:59):
I believe that
works.
That's what we did that's whatwe did the first time.
We did it a week after therollout.
David Kotz (04:08):
So one of the things
that I experienced when I taught
this course yesterday, there isa difference between the limited
edition, which I understand isavailable to lifeguard
instructors or instructortrainers who are expired, but by
no more than one year.
And it gives them both the baselevel information, the
instructor or instructortraining level information.
(04:29):
And then you can bolt on at theend, a base level skill session
to also certify them as alifeguard as well so they can go
in the stands.
And that actually makes theirexpiration dates match on
everything.
Steve Murphy (04:42):
Now we have not
been doing, we have not bolted
on the additional, because wefelt like Hey, we've got a lot
on the plate already.
It's relatively new.
This is my first time doing amajor update.
Actually being here for it.
Every other time an update hascome out, I've been on some
other certification planet.
And so I've always missed it.
And then showed up later andit's already happened.
(05:03):
We have not been doing the basiclifeguard research bolt on.
The one thing that we havenoticed is that the outline says
6.
5 hours.
I've found that to be wildlyoptimistic.
It's taken us about eight to getthrough each, no matter the
class size, no matter how manyadditional ITs I've had.
Two out of three, I've had anadditional IT out of Topeka,
(05:25):
Kansas who have helped me.
The one I did on Saturday, I didby myself.
Doesn't matter.
Always take a break.
David Kotz (05:31):
just takes more
time.
Steve Murphy (05:32):
Even if you take a
short break we did not take an
hour for lunch.
We- I even advised in the lasttwo recerts, bring your lunch.
Bring your lunch, change, eat,let me get the course
presentation going so that wecan get through that, and it
still takes about 8 hours, andso I imagine if I bolted on the
other, then that's a 10...
David Kotz (05:53):
it's a long day.
Steve Murphy (05:54):
Yeah I don't know
anybody who sits through it, I
just I just, but, who would?
David Kotz (05:59):
The biggest change
that I've seen between r.17, the
previous program, or currentprogram, and r.24 at the
instructor level, in thisrecertification process, now we
expect the instructors andinstructor trainers to teach.
We didn't have that before.
Steve Murphy (06:17):
I love it.
I love it.
I think it's great.
David Kotz (06:19):
And I think that is,
is a good step because, okay,
last time for r.17 of the lastseveral years, we'd watch them
do their skills, but we'd neveractually see them teach.
So I think that's a big step inthe right direction.
Steve Murphy (06:32):
First time I did
an LGI recert in March of 2022,
and it literally got hot potatointo my lap.
I did not have a lot of preptime, but I rolled into it and I
did it.
One of the other participantswas like, do we have a practice
teaching assignment?
I scoured the outline.
I thought, surely there must beone in here; there wasn't.
David Kotz (06:51):
Again, I, we agree
on that.
I think that's a definite goodthing.
When we used to do the lifeguardinstructor review class, I think
they called it review back then.
The guidance we were given wastwo pages.
That was it.
Now the guidance is approachinga hundred pages?
It's a lot.
(07:12):
I know when I was teachingyesterday and my class was
ultimately unsuccessful, I wasconcerned greatly that I was
following the instructor trainerguide very specifically just
because of the amount ofinformation that was there and
what we were expected toprovide.
So I was trying to model thebehavior we were expecting from
the students in the instructorrecertification process.
(07:35):
I want it to be the primeexample and show them this is
how it's done.
Here's the manual.
Let's open it.
Let's follow along.
Steve Murphy (07:42):
For sure.
It's a long process.
It's not as short as 6.
5 hours, but you're definitelygoing to be spending.
I'd say about 8 hours onaverage.
Now maybe as one gains moreexperience, they can find a way
to expedite it.
I don't know how you're going toget it down to the 6.
5 hour metric.
David Kotz (07:58):
The other
interesting thing about that
program specifically is there'sa separate test for the
recertification process.
That's different from yourinitial test as a lifeguard
instructor.
So As an IT, a new IT who's juststarting this program, you have
to understand that and beprepared for it.
There's also a 20 some odd pagehandout that you have to give to
(08:21):
every student.
It's definitely a new, morecomplicated, not bad, it's more
complicated in a good way, butthere's definitely some more
moving parts.
Steve Murphy (08:31):
Agreed.
Absolutely.
Sure is.
What?
Fun times.
Have you taught the full LGIclass yet?
David Kotz (08:37):
No, my first one's
gonna be starting this week on
Saturday, so I have five days toprepare for it right now.
Steve Murphy (08:43):
I taught two of
them.
I taught two back to backweekends.
16 hours is the guidance onthat.
I scheduled them Saturday,Sunday.
The first time I did it, I ranover my Sunday time for the
first time in ages.
I have always gotten out ontime.
We were an hour and a half overon times.
And the second time I taught it,I was a little bit more
(09:05):
efficient, but I still- it wasclose to, it was right about,
maybe about 20 minutes over,where it was we should have
been.
I've decided that when Ischedule my next one, it's going
to be a Friday, Saturday,Sunday.
And then that way, I'd ratherfinish early on Sunday and start
early on Friday than try toaccelerate and cut corners to
(09:26):
try and get to a quick time onSundays.
This is not happening.
David Kotz (09:30):
Clearly we agree on
that because that's the way I
like to teach my classes, aswell.
Hey, there's one other thingthat I thought we might chat
about, which is qualityassurance at the Red Cross.
And I say that in the bestpossible way.
Clearly, they are there to bringa level of professionalism to
our organization that has beenlacking in the past and lacks at
(09:54):
other certification agenciesThere have been a number of my
colleagues on the East Coastthat have been revoked recently
and so I just wanted to put thatout there to our colleagues
throughout the rest of theworld, the Red Cross Quality
Assurance is taking this veryseriously.
They're proactive.
(10:15):
They're not there to beat youup.
They want you to succeed, but ifyou're teaching a lifeguard
class in one day, you're notproviding a good service to the
students or their futurevictims.
Steve Murphy (10:28):
I agree
wholeheartedly.
Yeah, for sure.
David Kotz (10:31):
Anything else that
you'd like to talk about, Mr.
Murphy?
Steve Murphy (10:34):
Well, the only
thing I have to say is that it's
what I say to all my students:
lifeguarding is an adult-job. (10:36):
undefined
With adult power, adultresponsibility, and potentially
adult consequences.
I personally haven't lost anyoneon my watch yet.
Knock on wood, but I've knownpeople- I've worked with who
have, so I always train with themotivation of, hey, I would
spare you that pain, so payattention.
(10:59):
Watch your water, know yourskills, know your emergency
action plan, don't just assumeyou know it, know it in your
sleep, because the day will comewhen you have to use all that,
and If you're not ready for themoment will judge you.
And I've seen that happen topeople.
David Kotz (11:16):
And history can
judge very harshly.
Steve Murphy (11:18):
I've had my share
of major incidents.
Again, luckily they've all- Irecognize the luck of the
drowning.
I could go and get somebody andthere's nothing I could have
done- even if I did everythingright, there's still not going
to make it.
I would rather have that.
I could live with that ratherthan make a catastrophic
mistake.
David Kotz (11:34):
Listen, Steve, it's
been a pleasure talking to you.
I do believe we are twins.
We're related somewhere.
And sooner or later, we're goingto teach a class together.
Steve Murphy (11:42):
Hey, even better.
Yeah, for sure.
Be up for that.
Outstanding.
David Kotz (11:45):
To everyone else
again, thank you for watching
the LifeSaving chronicles.
Remember, you can find us onYouTube and I think our
producer, Michelle, is workingon some other venues, as well.
For me, it's Dave Kotz fromNational Safety Training Center.
I hope to see you in class.