519. The Eternal Optimist With Matt Drinkhahn

What happens when the very people meant to guide your faith become the reason you question it? Matt Drinkhahn powerful testimony traces his journey from a childhood firmly rooted in church to a twenty-year spiritual detour and back to renewed faith.

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Episode Transcript

Chris Grainger (00:03):
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast
serving Christian men who arehungry to be the leaders God
intends you to be.
I'm your host, chris Granger.
Let's jump in.
All right, fellas, this is yourmeat episode.
I'm excited to have you herewith us.
Ok, so let's get right into ourscripture of the week that's in
the book of Romans love Romans,chapter 15, verse 13 says May
the God of hope fill you withall joy and peace, as you trust

(00:27):
in him, so that you mayoverthrow, overflow with hope by
power of the Holy Spirit.
So, fellas, love, love, lovethat verse.
Go back and listen to thespiritual kickoff episode.
Just be one back in yourpodcast feed, all right, took
some time to unplug that to helpyou simplify and apply it to
your life, and it's really allabout the reflections.

(00:48):
That's what the spiritualkickoff episodes are all about
Just those simple reflectionsand insights to hopefully help
you take this scripture andapply it as a disciple of Christ
.
Ok, so again, if you like thespiritual kickoffs, we do those
Monday through Friday within ourcommunity.
It's a great way to get pluggedin to start, you know, leaning
in further to your discipleshipjourney.
So the lion within dot US howyou can find all that All right.

(01:12):
So for this conversation, it'sgoing to be a very upbeat.
Ok, I'm going to go ahead andit's going to be upbeat.
Conversation Brought in MattDrinking.
He's a great guy.
Love got to meet him.
He wrote a book called theEternal Optimist.
He's always on fire and hiscareer when you look at the
things he's done, it's reallybeen highlighted by his passion

(01:34):
for serving others.
That's what it comes down to.
He had a very successful careerin sales done some great things
.
Career in sales, done somegreat things.
He's grown uh who how he servesothers on different platforms
just by simply doing the rightthing.
He's got a ton of energy.
Uh, he's got very enthusiasticas well.

(01:54):
You can also hear his story.
It's got some some some twistsand turns in it.
Okay, and hopefully it's goingto encourage you.
Uh, you're going to hear we'regoing to talk very directly
about steps any Christian mancan take today to start leaning
in and improving the lives ofothers.
So he lives in Charlotte, northCarolina for you North Carolina
guys.

(02:14):
He's married to his wife, julie.
They got three young daughters.
He is a scratch golfer, by theway, so that's pretty awesome.
He's a real estate investor andhe's a big time sports fan and
man.
He's all about the family.
So I think you're going toreally enjoy this conversation,
so sit back and just enjoy.
Enjoy this one.
Well, my friend Matt Drinkin.
Well, matt, welcome to the LionWithin us.

(02:38):
How are you doing today, man?
Oh man, thanks, it's fantastic.

Matt Drinkhahn (02:42):
Is there any other answer?
I'm not going to say to you I'mgood, how are you?
I'm good, that's just.
I'm past that.
I want to give you a realanswer, man.
I'm doing fantastic todaybecause there's so much joy and
so much positive things I canlook forward to.
You know, we've alreadyovercome a storm of just immense
challenge in life andeverything moving forward is

(03:06):
just God's grace, God's will,and I'm incredibly grateful for
so.
That's how I'm doing today, man.

Chris Grainger (03:13):
I'm excited to be with you.
Amen, amen.
Well, I know we're going to getinto your story.
Before we do that, though, man,tell us something fun about you
, matt, that not many people mayknow about.

Matt Drinkhahn (03:23):
Okay, something fun well, I will, I'll let you
in on the nerd side is that mywife and I are competitive speed
puzzlers.
We're competing in the unitedstates championship of jigsaw
puzzling in april and dc, sothat's something.
I don't know if that's fun ornot for everyone.
It's super fun for us.
Uh, also, I happen to havethree daughters that are nine,

(03:44):
eight and six, and every daywhen I finish up work we hop in
the car and we drive 1.3 milesto their elementary school and
we play soccer with boys who area little bit older than them.
So we just love to go play alittle bit of soccer.
So those are a couple of uh, Isay fun things that are going on
in life right now.

Chris Grainger (04:04):
Well I gotta ask how did you get into
competitive puzzling man?
What led you down that path?

Matt Drinkhahn (04:10):
And Julie and I were just sitting around one
night and she said to me thatshe would love to do a puzzle.
This is about eight years ago.
So we did a puzzle together andthis is some of the most
connecting quality time for us.
You know, there's no TV on.
We put some lovely music in thebackground and we will stand
around our kitchen in the islandand do a 1,000 or 3,000 piece

(04:32):
puzzle and it's just a greattime for us to connect and talk.
And it's not in a sedentaryposition on the couch, it's
standing up and connecting.
So that's probably why we do itis so we can connect.
And then we just started tofind we're pretty good at it and
yeah, so it's kind of caught on.
And now this is our first timein 2025 that we're going to

(04:54):
compete in the worldchampionship.

Chris Grainger (04:59):
That's incredible.
Well, we got to get an updateafter the.
After the competition man Loveto see.
I want to see the trophybecause I know you're going to
win it.

Matt Drinkhahn (05:07):
That's awesome, okay, okay, listen, I'm an
eternal optimist, my friend.
But I can tell you this rightnow we are not going to win that
trophy.
We're not going to put in thetime, energy and effort and this
may be an opportunity for me tocoach myself in a life learning
lesson If you are not going toput in the required time that it
takes to become the top blankinsert in a blank, to become the

(05:30):
top puzzling team, if you'renot going to put in the time,
energy and effort to train to bethe top one then I'm not going
to brag that we're going to winit.
So when you say it, I'm like,yeah, I want to win the trophy
too, but we're not going topuzzle train for hours a day,
man, it's just a fun hobby.

Chris Grainger (05:44):
I hear you brother.
I hear you Enjoy that time forsure with her.
Good luck to you.
I know you have a veryinspirational story and a
testimony and I just want togive you a free space here to
kind of get the listeners up tospeed on who you are and why
you're so passionate for theLord.

Matt Drinkhahn (06:03):
Fantastic.
Well, let's go back in timewith some bullet points for
context.
As of right now, I'm 47 yearsof age.
I've been married to my amazingbride, julie, for the last 10
years and we have three amazingdaughters.
So that is where the family isright now.
We go back in time, my faithwalk, which I'd love to share

(06:25):
with you.
I'd love to dive in because Ibelieve that a lot of your
listeners they may relate to it,and I don't talk about it out
loud, publicly that often onpodcasts, because it's something
, that it's a challenging story.
There's a little bit ofembarrassment and I want to be
transparent about it becausewe're fully walking with the

(06:46):
Lord right now.
We started our life at least Istarted my life in 1977.
I've got my father, who's inthe military, in the Air Force.
My mother's an English schoolteacher and they met when he was
in the military.
So they met, they got togetherand then we moved 17 times in 21
years.
Chris, just imagine this man.

(07:07):
We are moving every year.
Every year and a half we'removing to a different place.
13 of those moves weredifferent states, so we simply
picked up and left.
And throughout all of this, onething that was consistent the
entire time is that we alwayswent to Sunday church, whether

(07:27):
it was living in Michigan wheremy dad's side of the family were
Lutherans, and we would go tothe Lutheran church.
Lutheran is very how would Isay it?
It was something where we wouldgo and the pews were big and it
was a hollow sound in the room.
It was very.
I felt it was a hollow sound inthe room.
It was very.
I felt it was kind of formal.
It wasn't catholicism formalI'll get into the catholic

(07:49):
journey in a little while but inlutheran it was uh, it was an
old tradition and we went tolutheran churches wherever we're
in michigan and when we'reliving in the south we went to
baptist churches because my momgrew up southern baptist.
So we would go to revival.
It's amazing Now that I'mtalking about it, I remember
some of my most fun times aregoing to revive, like we'd have

(08:10):
revival week in the summer.
We'd be with grandma and wewould go to church several
nights a week and have ourrevival out in the back outside.
That was pretty fantastic, butthe church was a constant when I
was growing up.
But the church was a constantwhen I was growing up.
So I can honestly say, livingto the 10 commandments, living
to the golden rule, studying theBible these are all things that

(08:32):
were normal part of lifegrowing up and I loved it.
I felt that there's this waythat I can live with these, what
I would call these right values, and it would grant me a spot
of eternal life.
God in heaven, I mean, theseare ideas that I love growing up
.
So we're thoroughly and heavilyinvolved in the church growing

(08:53):
up.
And then something happened,chris.
Something happened.
I was 16 years of age and thisis the first time this happened
in my life was 16 years of ageand this is the first time this
happened in my life.
The church we were going to,the pastor of said church, had
an affair with someone in thecongregation and that was the
first time that I'd ever hadanything that really tested my

(09:17):
faith.
Is that the place that we weretithing, the place that we would
spend and listen to this man ofthe church and he was doing the
things that we're talking aboutwe don't do, and to me as a
16-year-old, that didn't reallycompute.
So that was a little bit of achallenge for me to deal with at

(09:39):
that time.
Sure, okay, so we moved.
Broken trust.
Yeah well, let's's continue,because this daisy chain Of
broken trust Happens A couplemore times.
The next church that I went toI was moving, I was going to
high school the lead pastor hadA split and a rift In the church
Because of a political issueand the entire church Dissolved.

(10:01):
One of the biggest churches Inthe city we lived in it
dissolved.
He left and went somewhere elseand the church just dissolved
and it was a major church.
So we stopped going to thatchurch.
That's the second time.
And then, when I was off atcollege, the third time.

(10:22):
When I was off at college, thethird time the pastor of the
church also had an affair withsomeone that was on the clergy
staff.
So to me these are three andthere ended up being some
embezzlement.
That happened there.
Those are three specificinstances where I'm going to
church to study, to learn, tolive in the faith and to be kind

(10:43):
of re-energized and, I want tosay, chris, to be maybe even
shielded from some of thoseworldly things that happen, and
this is the centerpiece of thoseworldly things happening.
And I didn't know how to atthat time in my life, I didn't
know how to reconcile that.
Okay, here's what kind of endedthis chapter of my faith

(11:04):
walking life.
20 years old, I'm at college andmy girlfriend.
At the time she was living in asuite with seven other girls,
young women at college, and,unfortunately, the most horrible
thing happened.
One night it was a Friday nightOne of her suite mates was

(11:27):
assaulted on the way home from aparty and that particular time
that it happened she wascornered and trapped and she was
assaulted by a homeless personout there and she became
pregnant.
And the challenge then was thatshe went to the clinic to have

(11:47):
an abortion and in my mind atthis point, abortion is no, we
don't do that.
I didn't see any reason or wayto do that, and this is the
first time in my life that I amfaced with someone close to me
was assaulted.
They're pregnant, they want togo to the clinic, they're asking

(12:09):
me to take them.
So I got in the car with thegirlfriend and her friend and I
took her to the clinic and Ifelt that this was right, even
though I had some inner conflictabout what I'd been raised to
believe.
This is at the age of 20, andI'm at college, so roughly
around this time, my faith walkhad started to fracture a little

(12:31):
bit.
I still have the TenCommandments, still have the
Golden Rule, but my physicalrelationship of going to church
and being with actual like apastor in the church, chris,
this season in life it came to apause of me going to church.
Okay, all right, so compound.

(12:51):
The next thing is that I got ajob in sales, my first real job
of my life where I could earncommission and I could earn more
than the $5.50 an hour that I'dbeen earning in the summers or
the tips I've been earningserving for three years at
Macaroni Grill or a couple otherplaces.
So now I have my first job insales and making good commission

(13:12):
, and I am now because we grewup very meager and poor, I would
say.
I mean, we weren't having tosearch for our meals and we
always had a place to live onthe Air Force Base, but we
certainly shopped at the thriftstore and got our stuff from
Kmart.
So we're in this place nowwhere I'm not going to church.

(13:33):
I've got this career going andI'm starting to make money and
I've never actually seen moneybefore.
So I'm all into it and justtake off in this wild roller
coaster of building businessesand becoming financially
successful and that was reallythe focus.
And I went away from my parentsfor a few years and just focused
on the business and I certainlywasn't in my faith walk Put

(13:57):
into this the temptation of thelifestyle that I was living, of
running this big business andgoing out on the weekends with
my team or with friends.
There was a lot of alcoholinvolved.
It was a time when I'm notproud of it.
I want to share ittransparently.
I was secular, I was out of myfaith walk, okay.

(14:21):
And then the Lord reintroducedhimself to me in 2005 on late,
on memorial day, because I'vebeen sharing with my father over
the past year and a half.
Uh, at the time I was, I was 27,I shared with my father that I
was doing really well inbusiness and, um, I got a big

(14:46):
paycheck I shared.
I called him to share with him.
I got, I got a huge check, abonus check, biggest check in my
life at that point, 27.
And um, he said to me I'm happyfor you, son, I hope you don't,
uh, don't do anything dumb anddon't go out and drink and drive
, okay.
And I said well, dad, I don't,I don't drink.
I can tell you what I do.
I don't think you'd like it.

(15:07):
And that was where I made amistake.
My ego was up and I wanted toprove to him something.
And he's like what do you mean?
And I said well, dad, I don'tdrink On the weekends.
I smoked pot.
I shared that with him.
This is in my 20s and some timeago I know my kids are going to

(15:27):
hear this at some point and Iwant to be transparent that I
did that in my 20s and he wasn'tfond of that.
So we didn't talk for a longtime.
We were at that point.
We were out of communication fora while and my mom brokered the
conversation to come back andhave a play game of golf
together one weekend of MemorialDay 2005.

(15:49):
Right, so we go to play golfwith dad.
We have a three-day golf outingtogether.
As soon as I see him on thefirst day I haven't seen him or
talked to him in months show up.
I got a tear in my eye themoment I see him and I just I
confess and I apologize that I'memotional about it.
I only saw my dad cry twice inmy life when he was alive and
those two times were at thedeath of his mom and his dad.

(16:10):
He had a little bit of awetness in his eye at that
moment as well.
So we came back together.
Things were amazing for thosethree days.
I left that Sunday or thatMonday night, memorial Day
weekend, feeling full andconnected again to my family.
It was a big, big, big weekend.
Tuesday morning I get the callat 7.04 am from my mom.

(16:38):
I left their house that nightto drive back to Atlanta two
hours away.
And I got the call from mom at7.04 am in the morning.
Matthew, I need you to comehome.
Your dad just died.
Matthew, I need you to comehome.
Your dad just died, right, andthat was by far.
It was the worst moment of mylife.
It was the worst day of my lifeand there's no amount of
optimism that's going to changethat.

(16:58):
In my mind, nothing goodhappened in that moment or in
that day and it's a little bitof a blur.
All I remember is that mytwo-hour drive to get to them or
to get to my mom now it onlytook about an hour and 25
minutes and when I saw his bodylifeless, just utter shock and I

(17:19):
couldn't believe it and I justkind of stared at him and no
words came out, just all tearsand emotion.
I couldn't speak.
So I shared this criticaljuncture because at this point,
I was, I was.
I was away from the Lord.
I was in a different place, uh,driven by worldly things, still

(17:40):
wanting to serve people, but doit through a more selfish,
ego-based lens, uh.
But this was a big wake up calland, um, it definitely drew me
closer to mom and it started tobring me back closer to faith,
but I wasn't there yet, chris.

Chris Grainger (17:58):
Hey, matt, before you keep going, let's
take a quick break and thenwe're going to come back and let
you keep unpacking thisincredible testimony.
We'll be right back, guys.
I don't know about you, but Iused to find Mondays really
rough.
I would find myself trying toreset for work, trying to get my
bearing on the family calendar,trying to find time for my own

(18:22):
spiritual growth and development, and often I found myself
overwhelmed or just flatlyignoring aspects of my life that
I know are meaningful to me.
What I learned was that if Ihad immediate access to
important and impactfulspiritual topics and reflections
to start my week well, afterthe allure of a Sunday sermon

(18:42):
has passed, I would set my wholeweek up to be more meaningful
and for the opportunity to makea true impact.
If you think that getting such aboost would help your week to
get started on the right foot,we would love for you to sign up
for the Weekly Roar, which isour newsletter that is produced
by the Lion Within Us.
Each week will deliver apowerful reflection and

(19:07):
practical steps to help youapply scripture with clarity and
purpose, all being rooted inlight and truth.
So in just a few minutes, wehope to arm you with insights
for living out biblicalleadership with confidence and
strength, and maybe even have alittle extra bounce in your step
.
If that sounds useful, headover to thelionwithinus slash

(19:33):
ROAR to sign up today that'sthelionwithinus slash ROAR to
get your weekly ROAR today.
All right, matt, just feel free.
All right, matt, just feel free, just keep rolling.
Man, what a powerful testimony.
All right, man, just feel free,just keep rolling.
And man, what a powerfultestimony.

Matt Drinkhahn (19:53):
You can hear me and see me.
Everything is good so far.

Chris Grainger (19:57):
Yep, you can hear me at least.

Matt Drinkhahn (19:58):
Okay.
Well, so after dad passed Icame to some conclusions that
you know I'd like to trysomething different and do
something different, kind ofshift up and go to a different
chapter in my life.
So I got out of the businessthat I was in and I went to try
to play pro golf.
My mom showed me my dad's hisdiary and it said in it that his

(20:24):
only regret in his entire life,chris, was he didn't get to
caddy for me on the pro golftour.
Entire life, chris was he didn'tget to caddy for me on the pro
golf tour.
Didn't mention anything inthere about being proud or or
happy about the financialsuccess which to me growing up
he never really had money.
So to me this was a way that Icould prove my worth.
I could show him that it's I'mdoing really well and it was a

(20:47):
point of pride.
No point in his journal or hisdiary did he ever talk about
that.
It was always about he justwanted to spend more time with
me and he wanted to go caddy forme on the pro golf tour.
I let go of pro golf to go andrun businesses and now I came
back to it.
So I went to that season.
Obviously, I did not become thenext Tiger Woods, as Tiger

(21:09):
Woods was becoming Tiger Woods,so that wasn't the place that we
ended up, but that was the nextjourney after my father passed
and then, a couple of stints incorporate America.
It did really well there.
And then I met Julie.
I met the woman that I wouldmarry and now we've been married

(21:31):
for 10 years.
All right, our faith walkstogether because she grew up in
a Catholic house Okay, and Igrew up, you know, baptist,
lutheran, protestant, went to aMethodist college.
She grew up Catholic.
Both of us were.
We had grown up in the churchbut neither one of us were

(21:51):
really there at the moment whenwe met, and I was in my mid-30s
and she was in her early 30s.
So we met.
We didn't really have a faithstrategy or a connected plan in
our walk in faith.
It was kind of an afterthoughtto us.
We felt we were good people, wewere more spiritual than going
to church.
But after we started to raiseour children, we had all three

(22:16):
of the children in a few yeartime span.
We felt that we were beingcalled back to the church in
some way.
But we had so much, so manyscars.
She has her own scars from thechurch and I had mine, but we
had so many scars that it justtook us a little while to
rectify that.
And once we did and now I amvery excited to say.

(22:37):
I'm proud to say and we'llshare with everyone, that we
have been back in the church nowfor the better part of this
year.
We haven't missed any Sunday.
You know we're both taking partin Sunday school classes.
We're heavily involved in ourchurch and we just signed our
annual tithing card offering forthe first time that we've ever
done that together as a marriedcouple and our faith journey,

(23:03):
both heavily involved from birthtill 18.
And then exposed to somereal-world scenarios that
challenged us.
Foundation's still inside, butwe didn't go to church for some
time.
A couple decades pass and now,at this season in our lives, we

(23:27):
realize, because we're havingchildren, that we want to give
our children the same gift thatwe had growing up.
We want to help build a strongfoundation based on these right
moral and principles that welearned from our faith walk with
Christ.
And we have now done that.
And just to see our kids lightup when we have dinner every
night and we like to ask whatwas your high of the day, what

(23:49):
was your low of the day?
And whenever we have a meal onSunday night, we always get the
same answer we love going tochurch and these kids are only
nine, eight and six, right.
So any of you parents out there,you think about your kids in
church.
It's not always easy to get afour, five, six-year-old to sit
still in church, right?
Well, now we've got oursix-year-old.

(24:11):
I mean, she's not looking atthe sermon and taking notes or
anything, but she's quiet inchurch.
She's mostly paying attention.
The eight and nine-year-old arepaying attention and we're
having great discussions aboutit on the way home and at lunch
and at dinner table.
So our walk has started to comefull circle.
And some of the questions thatwe just didn't ask for the

(24:34):
better part of two decades.
We're asking again and everytime we ask it we feel good
asking it.
We're not questioning thevalues and challenging
everything.
You know, like Satan might getus to try to do and tempt us.
We have done our very best tolet to try to do and tempt us.
We have done our very best tolet go of some of those
temptations.
We've cut alcohol completelyout of our lives and I think

(24:57):
that's an important point.
I'm going to pause for a second.
I just hit you with a lot ofstuff that one part of going to
church every week and the kidsinvolved in Sunday school being
people who are leaders andstarting to teach in the Sunday
school classes that part alongwith.
We like to journal and ormeditate and pray every single

(25:22):
day, right.
So I have a journal over herethat I write in every single day
about the things I'm gratefulfor that the Lord has given us
Every day three magic moments Iwrite down.
I've been doing that for nineyears now, right, and we pray
together every night before wego to bed, right.

(25:42):
Those two simple practices havereally started to just
regenerate and reinvigorate usin our walk with Christ and
that's why I love to be with youtoday.
Chris, is to share that.
There may be some unrequitedguilt or shame that we were out
for so long and we've got tohave a little bit of patience

(26:06):
and grace with ourselves and notjudge ourselves too harshly for
those things that we've done.
If anyone out there is saddledwith this and they're feeling
this consistent guilt, our Lordis one who wants us to be
accountable for that but also isforgiving and we can have

(26:26):
patience and grace withourselves.
So that part, that part, hasbeen a challenge and we're
learning to let go of that andfocus on where we are right now.
I have a quote for you, and Ithink this is an original.
I don't think I heard itanywhere, but if I did, then
pardon me if someone else saidthis, if someone else said this,
but I would say that theantidote to anxiety, to

(26:51):
perfectionism, to temptation, isin being present, and I found

(27:20):
that whenever I start thinkingabout the past and the sins
we've committed, or turning ourhead the other way when we see
sins committed, there's maybesome guilt or shame in some of
that.
But that goes away when we'represent with the Lord right now,
amen, and the future same thing, right.
If you have anxiety about thefuture, the way things are going
to go or not go, and you'realways thinking about that, then
back to it being present withyourself, with the Lord, right
now.
That is the antidote.

Chris Grainger (27:40):
And.

Matt Drinkhahn (27:40):
I keep finding in my study out here, because
I'm one of these personal growthjunkies as well, and I coach a
lot of personal growth junkies,and I say that lovingly the more
I pray, the more I find myselfin this place where I'm just
present now, like we are rightnow.
There's no anxiety for thefuture, there's no shame for the

(28:02):
past.
It's just right now, pouringall we've got into the people
that we're with at the moment.
And I found that I feel closestto God and closest to Jesus and
closest with my family when I'mpresent in that moment.
Does that connect with you?
I mean, how do you interpretthat idea that the antidote to

(28:24):
temptation and anxiety,perfection, is in being present
with the Lord right now?
How does that strike you, chris?

Chris Grainger (28:31):
I mean.
One thing I say all the time onthe show and when I help others
as well, is just be where yourfeet are.
And if we could just be whereour feet are right, that fixes
so much, whether it's with yourspouse, with your kids, with the
board meeting, with a customer,wherever we are, and it's the
distraction world that we livein with the cell phones and the
notifications and the updates.

(28:53):
I mean it's just, it's hard tobe present.
So that's that's an easy wayfor me to remember.
But I love your quote as well.

Matt Drinkhahn (29:00):
I think you're right.
Yeah, be where your feet are,that's that's.
It's beautiful in itssimplicity and just to think
about be where your feet are,just be there.
Know, I think you look at the,the masculine energy of always
go, go, go and doing things, andthere's like a feminine energy
of being, uh, and being presentin that moment.
Whatever you want to call that,I, I tend to try to be more

(29:24):
present now, right before it wasall do, do, do, go, go, go,
achieve, achieve, achieve.

Chris Grainger (29:30):
and now that we're back in the, in the light
of the lord, and we're studyingand reading our bible every day,
now I find just being presentin that moment is like a, a big
channel, right, just a straightin line connection, straight to
god there's somethinginteresting about your story I

(29:50):
want to explore with you,because I've heard this with
lots of, with different guys aswell, and I see this in our
church and churches that I'vebeen a part with is you have the
kids, you have the youth, youknow.
You kind of you get them tocollege, like to the college age
, and then cause I mentor somecollege kids now too, and they
say, when they mentor somecollege kids now too, and and

(30:11):
and they say, when they comeback to church now they don't
feel like they fit in becausethey're not married.
You know, they don't have kids,they're not a kid anymore,
they're in that weird stage oflife.
And I just found so many times,matt, that churches, the
discipleship journey, first ofall, discipleship, is not even
on the radar for many churches.
We're trying to get themthrough the waters of baptism,
then we just we leave them,we're not, we're not truly

(30:33):
discipling them.
But, man, this it seemed likejust hearing your story.
You came back, obviously, whenyou had got married, had the
kids.
It makes it perfect.
I'm so happy for you, but I'mjust wondering are there, is it
an opportunity for churches tolearn from these different
stories, to lean intodiscipleship more and teach them
more earlier so that you knowin their twenties, they, they,

(30:55):
they have a sense of purpose andthey, they want.
Now obviously you you had threeback to back to back examples
that were just horrendous.
Man, but I mean, even inchurches that don't have that,
they're losing them.
They're losing them when theygo to college.
They're losing them in their20s and 30s and their
high-earning years.
I'd just love to get yourinsights on what do you think we

(31:16):
could do different?

Matt Drinkhahn (31:18):
Well, it's a great question.
I love the question.
I'll give you a parallelexample of why I feel this is a
real challenge for the church.
I feel it's a real challengefor a lot of organizations or
families.
I don't know if you've eversaid this out loud, but I've

(31:38):
said it a number of times that Iwish in school they would teach
more about financial literacy,how to balance a checkbook.
They would teach leadership,good decision-making.
But those aren't core curriculumclasses in most schools, right?
Well, take that same thoughtthat if we were to go to school
and teach those things, whatimpact would it make on our
children as they go through theeducation system?

(31:58):
Well, apply the same model toour faith and our churches In
churches.
If I'm just going to go back intime and think I don't know if
this would work or not, it makessense that it might to me.
I love to go back into Sundayschool when I was a teenager.
I'd love for my leader to comein there and give me a real-life
example like the one that Ifaced when I was 20.

(32:20):
No one had ever asked me thatquestion before.
No one in the church had everasked it.
It was a very black and white.
There's no gray area.
But if the church would be aplace where we could go and
discuss real-life, challengingthings we're going to face, I
feel that might be a more, maybea way that, if they would

(32:45):
evolve to that, that we couldprepare our kids a little bit
better so that when they'retested in that real life
scenario, they'd alreadypracticed it, they'd already
talked through how to do it.
It's the same thing I doprofessionally in coaching
high-level leaders to beprepared for anything.
Well, if you've never testedthem and their first real test

(33:06):
they face, they've not beentrained for it, or at least not
maybe in theory.
They've been trained butthey've never been asked the
real question and now they'vegot to face it on their own.
They're away from their parents, they're away at school,
somewhere.
Of course, there's going to bea strong temptation to not
follow our principles that wewere raised with because we
weren't taught how to use themin a real-life scenario.

(33:30):
So the same thing that we seein financial literacy in school
same thing I might want to talkabout at a teenage age when I'm
in Sunday school, growing up andI didn't get that.
So that might be one thoughtthat comes to mind, chris, when
you share that is, how might weincorporate real-life scenarios
and real-life challengingdecisions that we're going to

(33:52):
face?
How might we incorporate moreof that into our Sunday school
or into our church and have real, transparent dialogue?
Because I'd love to go deeperwith that.
My kids are nine and eight andsix, so especially the
six-year-old and maybe theeight-year-old a little bit.
It's tough to start to talkabout some of those more
challenging things now, like I'mnot going to talk about

(34:14):
abortion today.
I don't think that's really theplace.
Yet you know what?
It would be nice to talk withthem about some of these things
they may see on the news or see,and so not the news.
We don't even have news in ourhouse, we don't have cable, but
it would be like the socialmedia if they ever get that.
Yeah Right, just, things aregoing to see, right.

Chris Grainger (34:33):
Yeah.

Matt Drinkhahn (34:33):
How does that connect with you?

Chris Grainger (34:35):
I think it connects well.
I mean, I have some otherthoughts as well.
We're going to take a quickbreak.
Quick break, guys.
We'll come back and keepdigging into this topic.
When I reflect on the kind ofthings that the men who
participated in our discipleshipmasterminds had in the past, I
am overwhelmed by the quality oftheir comments and commitment

(34:58):
to each other.
Several of the guys commentedthat this was the most
meaningful leadership experiencethey've encountered, and we
even had one man log into adiscipleship mastermind while a
hurricane was hitting his house.
He was that committed andreceived that much from his peer
group that he didn't want tomiss it.

(35:19):
Because of this extraordinarycommitment and because it's a
true gift and pleasure, we madethem a core part of our
community and we hope you mightjoin us.
We sit up men with their ownpeer advisory group of seven
individuals that meet everyother week for 12 weeks.
Each member shares areas theywant to focus on, such as

(35:44):
improving their prayer life,being more intentional with
their wives or maybe shedding afew extra pounds Together.
We help them strategize, makecommitments, find accountability
and learn.
It's been our experience thatmost guys want a community of
trustworthy men to share theirideas and create support for

(36:05):
each other with, and it's beenour experience that most men
don't either create this forthemselves or seek them out.
So we do this because we wantyou to have that in your life,
and all that is needed to beginwinning is you.
All that is needed to beginwinning is you.
If this sounds interesting,check out our community to see

(36:26):
the dates and times of whenthese different groups meet.
Visit thelionwithinus to startyour free trial of our community
.
To get started today, that'sthelionwithinus, and I would
love to see you lean in and tapinto the power of our
discipleship masterminds.

(36:46):
Matt, one thing I was thinkingas well.
I love that.
You know teach them, of course,your kids age.
From my standpoint, that's whatwe're supposed to just be
teaching.
You know we're supposed to betrying to lay the foundation,
the groundwork.
So, like you're doing aphenomenal job, you and your
wife are doing that in yourchurch as well.
I'm wondering and guys won'thave to take the lead on this I

(37:09):
had no men discipling me in thefaith.
I had my father, which wasawesome he's my hero but I had
no other men who were furtheralong in their faith journey
that were coming alongside.
And I don't think you put agroup of 20 year olds together
and just give them a Bible.
I think it's a recipe fordisaster.
It's a dumpster fire in the way, in the light.

(37:31):
Nothing good is going to comefrom that.
The same thing that I also feelthat you put a bunch of 30 year
old couples together and letthem try to figure out life.
That's a dumpster fire.
At some point you got to havesome seasoned wisdom, some
veterans coming in, speakinglife, encouraging others, and I
think, man, we have the chanceto do that.
No matter where you're at onyour spiritual journey, you have

(37:53):
people behind you, no matterwhere you are.
So just find that one guythat's behind you and take that
time for mentorship anddiscipleship and just kind of
what you're doing with coaching.
I mean, it's the same thingPeople look to you for, for
wisdom and for coaching.
It's the same type of thing,but from a spiritual standpoint
it's a massive gap and I just Idon't.
I don't know how we fix it, Ijust know that that is, that is

(38:15):
a.
To me it seems like thatpotentially could be a way to
really start closing that gap.
I don't know if that resonates,but it resonates.

Matt Drinkhahn (38:22):
It resonates really well, and I am not one to
say that there's a problem andtalk about it and complain about
it, or just.
I don't want to idolize or justput the problem on a pedestal
without crossing that bridge andoffering a solution, because
then it may sound like I'mcomplaining.
So I'd like to offer a solutionto what we're talking about,

(38:44):
because I've not offered one yet.
Here might be something.
As someone who coacheshigh-level business executives,
one of the things I do is Ifacilitate mastermind events.
So I can imagine that there's aplace where, let's just say,
we're in Sunday school, we're inthe youth class, the teenage,
like I'm in high school, likejunior year or higher, or

(39:05):
freshman year to higher in highschool, maybe the college kids
come back.
But I'm facilitating somethingwhere maybe I have a six-part
series where I have six maleleaders in my church, six female
leaders as well.
But since we're talking aboutmen right now, let's just say
I've got six male leaders in thechurch of varying ages, varying

(39:26):
demographics, and they come andshare their testimony and they
share some of the morechallenging decisions they've
had to face and transparentlythey share what they did.
If we could get some real lifeprogress, real life feedback,
real life story of what happensin the real world with our
biblical principles, where welive to them and sometimes we

(39:47):
don't live to them, if we couldshare transparently and have
someone kind of coach or sharetheir testimony more frequently,
more often, more powerfully, Ifeel that might be some solution
or start to a solution.
I've not seen that in any ofthe churches I've been in yet.
Sure, some of them are probablydoing it, but I've not seen
them yet.
That could be one thing.

(40:07):
We could have something likethat.

Chris Grainger (40:10):
I think that's great, man, I mean because that
gives them opportunity for thatoutside perspective as well.
And just, you never know howthe Holy Spirit is going to move
, and I'm curious your thoughtson this.
So for the last I think five orsix years I've been mentoring
and doing direct one-on-onementoring.
He's 16 now and he's a littlepunk, but I keep pouring into

(40:34):
him all the time.
I've constantly, you know,check him, but we have those
hard conversations.
I mean, he's got a girlfriendnow and he, we're talking, you
know, I've talked to him verydirectly about, you know, your,
your biology is going to outpaceyour theology, bro, so you need
to make sure that you're not ina room alone, you know, room
alone with her, and we're not oncouches doing what we want to
do, because couches and moviesnever, you know never, ends in

(40:57):
good stuff when you're 16 yearsold.
So you're 16 years old, so Imean, but he doesn't his
father's past, he doesn't havethat man speaking into his life.
But for me, man like that's, youknow, hearing a story is one
thing, but like what I like somuch about the mentorship with
him is just a connection, justhey, what questions do you have?
You know, and then he'll justthe most random stuff at some

(41:21):
times.
I'm like, all right, let's gothere and let's figure it out,
and then I'll make ituncomfortable, you know, I'll
just come out.
Hey, have you looked at anypornography lately?
Or something like that?
Right, I mean, I just hit himbut he'll never see it coming
and a question, and it's just.
But we've developed that typeof bond and now where he comes
to me, I feel like I'll come tome when things get real.

(41:43):
But man, that's nothing.
That's not like a program atthe church or a flyer, that's
just time and investing time andit's not sexy.
But I wish we could find a wayto really challenge each other
as men, get one or two of thoseyoung Timothys in our lives and

(42:04):
start cultivating them, you know.

Matt Drinkhahn (42:06):
Yeah, what you're saying is such a powerful
testimony, chris.
What if we thought of tithing?
Of course we thought of tithingin terms of financial resource
but what if?
Tithing was in terms of everyleader, every male in our church
, you know were to invest sometime into their know, were to
invest some time into their owndevelopment or to invest some

(42:26):
time into the development ofsomeone younger in the church.
You know that might be a way toget everyone in our spiritual
community more involved.
So where is the place if you'relistening right now, where is
the place that you have givenback to the church, not just in
financial and not just in goingand packing lunches for the

(42:47):
homeless and doing things thatyour community outreach, but the
actual younger people in thechurch?
How have we created thesementorship, stewardship programs
, discipleship programs wherethey can walk with someone in
this stage of life?
And I feel that your idea is agreat idea, so I would trumpet
it.
I think that that would be agreat place for us to start.

(43:08):
I don't know.

Chris Grainger (43:12):
And for me.
You're a business guy and we'realways driven guys like us.
We try to figure out how toscale stuff right.
We want to scale it.
I don't know if you can scalethis so much, but I do know one
thing Looking at Scripturescripture.
It seems like we need to have afew pauls in our life, the guys
that are further along thatwe're learning from, you know,

(43:32):
and and those are the guys thatneed to be speaking and kind of
chipping away to us.
I meet, I'm meeting with mylater today, he's 86, and when
he talks I shut up and I'm justquiet and I listen to him and
I'll tell him how you know astory and he'll just tell me
that I'm a moron and he'll, youknow, correct me and gently,
because he loves me and he's gotthat wisdom and I trust him.
Then we gotta have somebarnabases, man, we gotta have
some, some peers that they woulddo life with right, they're

(43:54):
just going like you're abarnabas, I can tell that you're
just an encourager, you knowyou.
Just you lift people up.
Then we better have a fewtimothys as well, and I don't
have the right number.
I don't know what the number is.
I think it's individualistic tothe, to the man, but I know one
thing it's got to be biggerthan zero for all levels, you
know, and so I don't know ifthat hits, but that's just.
To me it's like we could if wehad a, if we had a few paul

(44:16):
barnabas's and timothy's in ourlife, man, I think we'd find a
lot more fulfillment and, toyour point, optimism.

Matt Drinkhahn (44:23):
Yes, and, by the way, I am very glad that you
keep saying Timothy and Barnabasand Paul, because those are
three names in the Bible ofpeople I know, like Samson and
Moses and Elijah.
These are names of stories Iknow well.
I'm glad you didn't plot a name, I didn't know.
But yes, yes, no-transcript,and come more towards that with

(45:07):
strong leadership leading theway.
So what are we doing to give upa little bit of ourselves and
offer to our people in thecongregation, to our peers, our
brothers and sisters?
What might we do to pour moreinto them?
And that, my friend, I thinkthat's a very challenging
question because you've got togive up a little bit of self and

(45:27):
not take, give.
And that's a tough existentialquestion because we've got so
much going on.
We've got distractions, we'vegot temptation, we've got life,
meeting the bills and jobs andkids that might drive us crazy
and we love them so much.
So we got all this stuff goingon.
And so how do we help ourradiance, our light, outshine

(45:50):
the darkness?
And when we do, peoplegravitate towards that.
We just need a little bit morelight.
You move more towards light,get a little bit brighter every
day.
There's going to be days.
We're dark, I know, I know.
And how might we have morelight days and dark days and be
a little bit more of a magneticsun or radiance, you know, than
just lukewarm or not present?

Chris Grainger (46:11):
I am, that's, I'm with you, bro, I'm with you
and I'm super curious becauseyou're, you do have a lot of
success.
We we have.
I mean, we built this linewithin us.
We disciple leaders, so lots ofour guys who listen, they are
successful.
I'm curious for you what's theuh, what are you looking for and
how do you find those?

(46:32):
Those spiritual mentors?
You know how have you foundthem in your life?
You know that are that aregoing to be helping, guide and
direct you.
Like what's the green flags?
We all know what the red flagsare, but like, what are the
green flags and what are you?
What are you looking for thereto uh that that has helped you?
Because obviously it's easy tothink like, well, if I hear matt
, he's, he's led all thesebusinesses, he's so successful

(46:53):
he probably doesn't need anyone.
And I know that's not accurate,but I'm just curious what would
those, those green indicatorsbe for you as you look for that?

Matt Drinkhahn (47:01):
Thank you for saying it, and I got an answer
for this one.
Before I share the answer, it'seasy to look at people that are
on your podcast, that maybehave the term successful, you
know, and people consider themto be successful.
Oh, it was all easy for them.
They could say it because lookat them, they've made it.

(47:22):
They're whatever they are,they're successful.
I look at them, they've made it.
They're whatever they are,they're successful.
I tell you what, though, myfriend, part of the reason that
I've been able to find successin business is because of my
strong upbringing.
Strong, go back to the light,go back to the good, strong
habits and disciplines, and thishas never been easy, right?

(47:44):
So let me just dispel the myththat success is a piece of cake.
It's not, and it's not easy,and it may seem really cool and
calm and collected, but, like aduck under the water, I'm going
100,000 miles an hour right now,and have been for some time.
It has become easier becauseI've grown and gotten a little
bit I'd say a little bit biggerand expanded, because I do so

(48:07):
much reflection, do so muchself-study, do so much
journaling, reading humbly,sharing the hard stuff and
having deep conversations aroundit, and this is the hard work
that it takes to becomesuccessful.
So I don't want anyone to think, oh, he's so successful, I
don't have much figured out, Ijust wake up every day with a
great attitude and just give itmy best.
So I don't want anyone to think, oh, he's so successful, I

(48:28):
don't have much figured out, Ijust wake up every day with a
great attitude and just give itmy best.
So, having said all that, Iactually forgot your question
the green flags for the mentorsin your life.
Yeah.
So this is again a place thatmay be very uncomfortable,
because they're not just goingto find you.
If you want something, you'vegot to go and find it and create

(48:50):
it.
It's always been the way thatI've lived and I'd say this that
the people I find as mentorsright now my mentor right now is
a man named Mark Victor Hansen.
He has created the Chicken Soupfor the Soul book series.
He's sold over 600 millionbooks more than anyone in the
history of the United States andthis particular gentleman has a

(49:11):
strong walk with Christ and heis one of the big influences
that has helped bring me back toChrist.
So I look, how did I find him?
I didn't just get lucky and endup at a table with him one day.
I had to seek out strong maleguidance and leadership, and I
went looking for that, and whenI started my podcast, the

(49:32):
Eternal Optimist podcast, Isought out this, coincidentally,
how we met as well.
I sought out looking for peoplethat have done amazing things,
that have overcome amazingchallenges and learned from
their stories, and I've learnedfrom you and yours.
I've learned from him and his.
But it wasn't by accident thatyou and I came to meet together.

(49:54):
It wasn't by accident that Ifound my mentors.
It was because I am on a questto learn from and be with people
that well, quite frankly, theyhave achieved some level of
success, but it's not justfinancial success.
It's a success of inner peacethat they have found by being

(50:15):
with the Lord.
So that is something that Idon't think.
I voiced that on a podcast, orat least in a long time.
That's one great way to look atsuccess, and if you want that,
or if you want a mentor, you'vegot to own it yourself.
My friends, they're not outthere looking for you.
At least they might be, butit's like a needle in a haystack
finding people to be ourdisciples or people that we can

(50:38):
mentor.
So if you really want a mentor,you've got to go out there and
find it.
And if you really want a mentor, you've got to go out there and
find it.
And if you're not sure how,reach out to chris, reach out to
me and we can point you withsome resources or point you in a
direction.
Maybe even we can help serveyou.
But I, I truly believe that ifyou want something, you have to
take personal accountability andresponsibility for it and

(51:00):
figure out how to find it and ifyou don't know how, reach out
to to me, reach out to Chris.
And we'll give you some morefeedback on that, but that'd be
my response is you got to go andfind it.

Chris Grainger (51:11):
You got to go and find it.
That's it.
That's it.
Well, matt, this has been.
Your testimony is incredible.
We always love to play alightning round toward the end
of our conversations.
If you're willing to jump inand have some fun at the end,
man, well, how about we do it?

Matt Drinkhahn (51:25):
I love it.
I love lightning around me.
I I don't know what you'regonna ask, so I'm excited about
it and let's go, baby, all rightall right outside of puzzling
what's your, what's anotherhobby you enjoy doing for?
Fun scratch golfer.
I love playing golf.
You know if my dad growing upI've had three hole-in-ones and
one double eagle and I love toplay golf, baby.
So I'd say that and the kids docome with me out there, I bring
them, they ride in the cart andnow they have clubs so they get

(51:47):
to play from time to time.
So, yeah, it's golf, definitelygolf.

Chris Grainger (51:51):
What's the greatest?
Okay, it's just going to be anoff-the-cuff lightning round
question Where's the greatestplace?

Matt Drinkhahn (51:56):
that comes to mind is I played the TPC at
Sawgrass, where they play thePlayers' Championship.
I played it with my friend,william McGirt, who I played
with at Wofford, and he won theMemorial with Jack Nicklaus a
few years back and I got to hitballs on the pro side of the
driving range right next toVijay Singh when he was I think
he was 52 at the time and theguy was still hitting it as far

(52:18):
as I've ever seen anybody and itwas amazing.
But yeah, tpc at Sawgrass isthe most beautiful place.
I got to say if I could playanywhere right now other than
Augusta National, I want to goback to my old high school
stomping grounds in Peru,indiana, and play Peru municipal
golf course with my high schoolfriends.
Okay, so that's the answerthere.

Chris Grainger (52:38):
There you go, brother, there you go.
How about favorite food?
What are you eating?

Matt Drinkhahn (52:43):
First thing that comes to mind right now because
I'm looking at the lion within,right behind you I had some
delicious venison and, by theway, I love to go and find and
kill and eat everything that Iwould kill, everything I would
hunt and do, but we don't likeit as much when people do it for
us, so I want to go and find itand want to kill it and I want
to eat it myself.
So anything that I can go andfind and eat like that, like

(53:06):
fish or venison.

Chris Grainger (53:13):
I love that as food.
There you go, there you go, allright.

Matt Drinkhahn (53:16):
Love it.
How about an all-time favoritemovie?
What's your go-to movie, matt?
Oh my God, you're making my ADVmind go crazy.
I have to say Caddyshack man,because I love a good laugh and
that's one of my most quotedmovies of all time, uh, but if
I'm gonna bit the masculineenergy, I'm going 300, because I
love the leonidas inspirationalstory there.
Those are some, but you knowwhat?
Okay, since we're on the faithwalk, I absolutely love facing

(53:36):
the giants back in the day.
You know when mark rick cameout that movie and he was the
Georgia coach then.
But that Facing the Giantsmovie came out like about 12
years ago or 13 years ago.
I really enjoy that one.

Chris Grainger (53:49):
Awesome, brother , awesome.
So if you could have asuperpower, like, which one
would it be and how would youuse it?
Matt?

Matt Drinkhahn (53:55):
Whew, man, all right.
So I thought about this ingreat depth.
If I had a superpower, it wouldbe the ability to read minds,
to be able to understand youknow, why are they actually
doing it that way?
I am so confused sometimes bythings that just don't make
sense out there, and I'd love tounderstand why people think the
way they do and really get itin depth.

(54:16):
So I'd love to just read someminds for a little while, like
Mel Gibson and what women wantright, but not for any bad
reasons like that.
But I want to be able tounderstand the deep why people
do the things they do and whatwent into their thinking.
So that would be one.

Chris Grainger (54:34):
There you go.
There you go.
If you were to look at the lastsix or 12 months, Matt, where
did you spend too much time?
What did you waste time on?

Matt Drinkhahn (54:43):
Oh, I wasted time on Twitter.
I wasted time on social media.
As a result of that, aboutthree months ago, I took
Facebook, instagram, youtube,linkedin.
I deleted all them from myphone and that has made a huge
impact.
So now if I want to do socialmedia, I actually intentionally
have to sit down at my desktopand go to my computer and,

(55:03):
frankly, I have not done that.
Since the day that I let go ofmy social media.
I've not looked at it once.
So, yeah, that's been reallyhelpful.

Chris Grainger (55:11):
Love it, love it .
Obviously, we love talkingabout God here on the Alliance.
So, very simply, what's yourfavorite thing about him?

Matt Drinkhahn (55:21):
Well, my favorite thing about God is that
is that a couple of things I'llstart with a is that I firmly
believe in, can quote memorized.
I love the 10 commandments.
I love a set of system andprinciples that just feel right
to me.
So I love that from a structurestandpoint.
But the thing I love most aboutGod is that he will take me as
I am, all the stuff I got, allthe warts and everything, all

(55:43):
the mistakes that I've made, allthe times that I have not been
right with God, especially in my20s and early 30s.
In that time period in life, henever let go of me, even though
I let go of him for a while.
Now that I'm back, I canhonestly say thank you, lord,
for still being with me, notcasting me out forever, and now

(56:04):
I'm back to be a great testimonyfor you forever.
So I think that would be myresponse.

Chris Grainger (56:09):
Amen.

Matt Drinkhahn (56:10):
Let's flip it 180.
What's your least favoritething of the evil one?

Chris Grainger (56:21):
My least favorite thing, yeah about the
evil one.

Matt Drinkhahn (56:24):
I'm not sure I understand the question about
the evil one.
I'm not sure I understand thequestion.
The evil one, satan.

Chris Grainger (56:29):
What's your least favorite thing about Satan
?

Matt Drinkhahn (56:32):
Man.
He's everywhere, at all timesand he never lets off.
And you've always got toconstantly be on guard to
protect against the tinytemptations that just start as
tiny little ripples and theybecome huge tears.
Watch out.
My least favorite thing is thathe can just get you.
In the moment when you're mostchallenged, when you're at your

(56:52):
most vulnerable, that is when hetries to get in there and get
you.
So, for all my fellow Christianwarriors out there, let's keep
training together.
My fellow Christian warriorsout there, let's keep training
together.
Let's keep working on how weshow up for each other, for our
faith, for our Lord, for what?
Everything that the Lordembodies.
Let's keep working on thattogether so that when the time

(57:12):
comes and we're truly tested,even more than we've ever been
tested before, we're ready.
You know we've got ourrepetitions and we're prepared.
You know, to tell Satan get thehell out of here, because we're
going this way and we're goingto beat you because we follow
this.

Chris Grainger (57:29):
I think that would be yeah, that's it, that's
it, that's it.
Last one for you, man, is whatdo you hope the listeners
remember the most from ourconversation today?

Matt Drinkhahn (57:40):
Patience and grace with yourself, my friends,
the past is in the past.
If you can learn to forgiveyourself and just take moving
forward just one moment at atime with your walk, with christ
.
He's there with you.
Patience and grace withyourself, just one day, one step
at a time, with the lord, youcan do it, my friends.

(58:01):
You can do.

Chris Grainger (58:03):
Well, Matt, where do you want to send a
listener to connect with you thewonderful things you're doing?
Obviously, your book.
I just want to give you a placeto direct guys right now.

Matt Drinkhahn (58:12):
Yeah, I'd love to send you to the
eternaloptimistpodcastcom.
That's where you can find mybook, you can find the podcast,
you can find my episode withChris.
You can find a lot about mylife's work.
I've not talked about what I doprofessionally.
You can find a little bit aboutit there.
If you just look me up online,there's only, I think, 12 people
in the whole world that have mylast name.
So just look up Matt Drinkonand you'll be able to figure and

(58:33):
find me there.
But again, I just want to saythank you, chris, for taking the
time and inviting me to be withyou and your audience.
And you know, team, you can doit.
Whatever it is, you can do it.
Patience and grace with self,you can do it.
That's my message for the teamtoday.

Chris Grainger (58:49):
Amen, bro.
Thank you, matt, so much foryour time.
You have a wonderful day, sir.
You too, brother, I find ithelps me to have a guide at
times when I'm reading andstudying the Bible.
One way that helps me is byusing devotionals to guide not
only what I read, but insightsinto the scriptures themselves.

(59:10):
So we were blessed to become anauthor on the YouVersion Bible
app, and we saw an immediateopportunity to help others with
devotionals around the areasthat we spend the most time
talking about at the Lion WithinUs.
So if you enjoy the show, youmay enjoy these devos as well.
We have some guys that areusing them as part of their

(59:31):
small groups as well, as they'rea great way to get
conversations going.
So to see the ones that we'vecreated, head over to
thelionwithinus to learn more.
So that's thelionwithinus, toget started with your own men's
devotional today.
All right, fellas, I told youit was going to be a good one.

(59:52):
Matt did not disappoint.
Thank you, guys, so much forlistening.
Look, the question I want youto think about as you leave
today, okay, is what gives youhope when life feels
overwhelming or sometimesuncertain, and that hope has to
be centered in something.
Fellas, you're going to anchoryourself to something Now.
Maybe it's something of thisworld, maybe it's your checking
account, right, and you feellike you know, if you could just

(01:00:13):
have this number in thereyou'll be okay.
Or it could even be a person, aspouse or mentor, or something.
Here to tell you if you'reanchoring that hope in anything
outside of Christ, be careful,because that at some point is
going to let you down.
It just takes one phone call,one trip to the doctor, whatever

(01:00:33):
it may be, and things can comeunravel.
However, if we have that hopefirmly planted in Christ,
nothing can shake that.
So anyway, fellas, hopefullyyou enjoyed that with Matt Great
dude, loved his energy, thankyou.
I'm really appreciative for himcoming on and sharing his story
Again.
Head over to thelionwithinus tofind all our resources.

(01:00:54):
Fellas, all the ways we try tohelp, that we try to serve,
everything can be found rightthere.
Thelionwithinus is how you getconnected today, okay, so thank
you again.
We'll come back on Friday.
We'll have some really good funFriday tips and things like
that that we try to serve youwith on Friday.
And if you can just give us arating and review the
lionwithinus, check out ourweekly roar, our Christian

(01:01:17):
assessment.
Join our community.
I'm going to say it Join thecommunity.
Quit waiting, get off thesidelines and go quick.
Quit waiting, get off thesidelines and go join the
community today.
All right, the lion thing thatyou guys have a great day, get
after it.
Remember, keep unleashing thelion within.