567. God Was Right With Mark Gerson

Could ancient biblical wisdom be more scientifically accurate than our modern dating apps and self-help books? Serial entrepreneur and philanthropist Mark Gerson joins us to reveal the stunning parallels between modern social science research and the Torah's timeless teachings.

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Episode Transcript

Chris Grainger (00:03):
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast
serving Christian men who arehungry to be the leaders God
intends you to be.
I'm your host, chris Granger.
Let's jump in.
All right, fellas, this is yourmeat episode.
Let's get into it, okay.
So the scripture of the weekthis week is out of the book of
Genesis, the second chapter, the18th verse.
It says the Lord, god, said itis not good for man to be alone.
I will make a helper suitablefor him.

(00:25):
So, fellas, take some time, goback and listen to the spiritual
kickoff episode where we unpackthat verse at length to help
you understand how you cansimplify and apply it to your
life.
And as a quick reminder, we dothis Monday through Friday
within our Lion Within Uscommunity, all for free.
Head over to the Lion Withindot us to get started today.
Ok, now this conversation isgoing to be with my friend, mark

(00:46):
Gerson.
He's a serial entrepreneur,he's a philanthropist, he is a
co-founder of several differenttypes of groups out there.
Fellas, I'll tell you what.
This guy is on fire for theLord and he has founded and
seeded multiple, multiplebillion-dollar companies.
So, guys, it's just a funconversation with him.

(01:07):
He took the time to write thisbook called God Was Right, how
Modern Social Science Proves theTorah Is True.
So he spends a lot of time onthe Torah, old Testament, right,
and the first five booksprimarily is where we camp out
in this conversation and he'sjust an energetic guy, obviously

(01:27):
just brilliant, and hopefullyyou guys are going to take some
insights that he shares,particularly around marriage,
around pornography, sexualtemptation.
He talks a lot aroundloneliness.
If you guys are out there, youdon't have many actually true
friends around loneliness.
If you guys are out there, youdon't have many actually true

(01:47):
friends.
He gives a fresh perspective,using God's Word to help us
understand it better.
So hopefully you just enjoythis conversation with my friend
Mark Gerson.
All right, well, mark, welcometo the Land Within Us.
How are you doing today, sir?

Mark Gerson (01:59):
Terrific, chris, great to be with you.
Thank you.

Chris Grainger (02:02):
I'm excited to have you here, to be with you
this morning, and lookingforward to unpacking the
conversation, but before we getinto that, I always like to
start just a little bit light.
So what's something fun aboutyou, mark, that maybe not many
people know about?

Mark Gerson (02:15):
What's fun about me ?
Well, I don't know.
I have four kids, but everyoneknows that.
Let's see.
I run six miles every morning.
I haven't missed a day in 20years because I have an
addiction to exercise and Istudy the Bible on the treadmill
Really, which I totallyrecommend.
Yeah, and I really recommend it.

(02:35):
Of course, you can only doaudio and video, but this is the
best time in the history ofmankind to do Bible study
because of the proliferation ofEnglish language Bible content
available in audio and video toanybody and everybody.
So I get on the treadmill.
I'm 52, so I'm not fast Notthat I ever was, but I'm not

(02:56):
fast.
Now.
It takes me one hour to do sixmiles, but that hour gives me a
time to study the Bible.
And the treadmill is a greatplace to study the Bible because
the blood is literally flowing,you can't take a phone call,
you can't fall asleep, you cando nothing except pay attention
and you're as focused as you'llever be on what you're studying,
on the word.
So I study every morning for anhour on the treadmill.

Chris Grainger (03:17):
Wow.

Mark Gerson (03:18):
And I totally recommend it.

Chris Grainger (03:20):
And you're saying you're not fast, that's a
10 minute mile, right?

Mark Gerson (03:23):
I mean you're, you're, you're right, it's a 10
minute, it's a 10 minute mile.
Yeah, I mean God, how longwould it take me to do a
marathon if I can keep up?
Keep up that pace?
Way too long.
But I don't do marathons, Ijust do six miles every day.
And uh, I'm a and only on thetreadmill, cause.

Chris Grainger (03:41):
I could put incredible.
That's incredible.
So I run five K's in the woodsevery day, but, man, you're
making me think about thetreadmill.
It does offer that opportunityfor technology that I don't have
.

Mark Gerson (03:52):
Right, right.
Well, do you listen to Biblewhen you're, when you're running
in the woods?

Chris Grainger (03:55):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I listen to lots of lots ofpodcasts, bible things like that
, just anything to to to get fedwhile I'm in the woods.
Yeah yeah, nothing like it.

Mark Gerson (04:06):
That's right.

Chris Grainger (04:07):
Oh man, Six miles, though.
That's impressive.
I thought I was doing good witha 5K.
You're cranking it, man.
That's awesome.

Mark Gerson (04:15):
Yeah, yeah.
It's a great way to start theday, and Bible study and
treadmill are a perfectcombination.

Chris Grainger (04:20):
Any apps or anything that you use for your
personal Bible study that youfind just a lot of value in.

Mark Gerson (04:25):
Yeah, it's a good question.
So I go to English languageTorah commentary.
So the Torah is what Christianscall the Old Testament.
We call the Torah.
It's the five books of Moses,genesis through Deuteronomy.
Probably 10 or maybe 15 Englishlanguage commentators who speak

(04:50):
and teach in the style I like,which is a real fidelity to the
text, trying to extract thepractical meaning from the text.
So, rabbi Ephraim Goldberg fromthe Boca Raton Synagogue, rabbi
Moshe Scheiner from the PalmBeach Synagogue, rabbi Jonathan
Sachs, who was the chief rabbiof England.
He passed away a few years ago,but there's really great
English language commentaryavailable on any podcast engine.
I use Listen Notes, but Spotifyand Apple is the same thing and

(05:11):
it's just, it's reallyavailable and it's a great time
for me to study, a great placefor me to study, and I think
people should recognize this isthe best time in the history of
mankind to be studying the Bible.

Chris Grainger (05:26):
Amen to that, amen.
Well, thank you for thosereferences, and I know, before
we start recording, you said youwanted to dive into the
biblical definition of manhood.
What does that look like?
There's so much in the Torahthere for us to understand, so
I'm going to give you an openplatform and a floor here.
How would you like to go withthis?

Mark Gerson (05:44):
Oh yeah.
Well, there's a lot aboutmanhood in the Torah, and the
Hebrew language has a word ish,which means man.
It's what we would say to be aman, as distinct from only being
an adult male.
And there are several examplesof the Torah, all of which have

(06:07):
something to teach us in ourpresent day, because that's what
the Torah is for to be a greatguidebook for us in our current
questions, challenges, struggles, opportunities.
The Torah is always there,never disappoints, quite the
opposite.
But the first example, not thefirst, the first is Noah, but
one of the first examples isMoses in Exodus.

(06:29):
It's when Moses sees a Jewfighting an Egyptian.
So at this point, moses is aJew being raised by the pharaoh
of Egypt because the pharaoh'sdaughter had adopted him.
So he's being raised in thepalace.
So he's a Jew being raised asan Egyptian.
So who is he?
Is he a Jew or an Egyptian?
Good question, right, it's he'sa Jew being raised and he has

(06:51):
to confront that question.
When he sees a Jew fighting anEgyptian and this is one of my
top five verses in the Biblewhat it says is he looked, so he
sees a Jew fighting an Egyptian.
So that lays up the scene andthen it says he, referring to
Moses, looked this way and thatway and saw no man.
In other words, what did he see?

(07:14):
He saw his Jewish side, he sawhis Egyptian side, and when you
look this way and that way andyou don't take a side, there is
no man.
When you don't take a positionin a time of struggle, in a time
of challenge, when you'remorally called, you saw an
Egyptian slave master beating aJewish slave.
He looked this way at hisJewish identity, that way at his

(07:36):
Egyptian identity, and he sawno man.
When you're going back andforth, back and forth, there's
no man.
So what does it mean to be aman?
In a biblical context?
It means to take a righteousstand.
He saw a slave being beaten bya slave master and when he was
not getting involved, there wasno man.
And then he became a man bygetting involved.
Amen.

Chris Grainger (07:58):
That's incredible.
So I mean at that point, youknow for you, as you you're kind
of breaking through this withMoses.
Where else do you what otheryou mentioned Noah's where?
Where else do you take guys togive them those definitions or
those pictures of what it lookslike to be a biblical man?

Mark Gerson (08:16):
Yeah, so Noah is also called an ish, which is the
Hebrew word for man, isdistinct from adult male.
And it said Noah was righteousin his generation.
So we see from Noah that to bea man means to be righteous.
We see from Moses that to be aman means to stand up for
justice and against evil and getphysically involved if you have

(08:38):
to.
We see the Joseph story isreally interesting.
So Joseph is a young man withouta family in Egypt because his
brothers had thrown him into thepit.
And he's in Egypt effectivelyby himself and he finds himself
as the head slave or the headservant in the home of Potiphar
and he's continually beingseduced by Potiphar's wife.

(09:02):
And let's just all putourselves in the mind of Joseph
right now.
He's a 17-year-old male beingseduced by this beautiful woman.
Okay, so we can all imaginebeing Joseph right now.
Okay, and the Bible is notpuritanical, so we shouldn't be
puritanical in our assessment ofit.
So let's just all get into hisframe of mind right now.

(09:23):
We can all get there.
And what the Bible tells us isthat he goes into the house and
there was no man there, but weknow that there was at least one
adult male there, joseph.
Therefore, what does it mean tobe a man?
It means in this context,perhaps it means and with the
Torah we can always say, perhaps, because perhaps is saying this

(09:44):
is one interpretation, butperhaps one of the components
that it means to be a man and Ithink this is right is don't put
yourself in the place oftemptation.
A man does not put himself inthe place of temptation, because
Joseph knew that it would nothave been right for him to sleep
with Potiphar's wife.
He knew that and therefore tobe a man in that context was

(10:04):
don't put yourself in thatposition.
Joseph's a 17-year-old male.
Of course he's going to betempted.
So what does it mean to be aman?
Don't put yourself in thatposition.
Identify the temptation andstay far away from it.
That's what a man does.

Chris Grainger (10:17):
Well, when you think about that in today's
modern context, that was Josephback there.
He was one house, one woman.
You know, obviously, the lotsof things can happen there.
But guys, these days I mean,just look at your, your
smartphone, the technologythat's out there, the way that
we're being attacked at everyangle there I feel like there's
temptation.
Even in the most most wholesomeof places there can be

(10:40):
temptation.
So how do you apply that?
Or how do you counsel guystoday who feel like, literally,
we're just drowning in a sea oftemptation everywhere we look?

Mark Gerson (10:49):
What a great question and the Bible, as
always, has the answer.
So the Bible has this veryinteresting phrase and it's used
several times.
So in one of the instances it'sused, it's in the law requiring
returning lost things.
So the Bible you have to returna lost thing, but the Bible
doesn't say you have to return alost thing.
It says you shall becomeincapable of not returning a

(11:13):
lost thing, which is a veryinteresting way to describe it,
because what it's saying is youshould develop your character to
such an extent that you shouldbecome incapable of not doing
the right thing or you shallbecome incapable of doing the
wrong thing.
And this is such an importantlesson from the Bible about how

(11:34):
we should best work towardsrefining our character is we can
all think of things that wesimply are incapable of saying
or incapable of doing.
What the Bible is saying isthat's good.
Now, if you're incapable ofdoing something, you don't have
to call upon your willpower.
You only have to call upon yourwillpower for things you're
capable of doing but don't wantto do.

(11:56):
And what modern social sciencehas demonstrated is that
willpower is really weak.
Is that we often is, that wemight call upon it, but it might
not be strong enough toovercome the temptation.
And even when we call upon itand it does help us overcome the
temptation it weakens.
It weakens us for subsequenttasks because it consumes so
much energy.
So in comes the Bible, whichdoesn't even have a term for

(12:19):
willpower.
It doesn't even recognize theconcept, doesn't even dignify it
.
It just has become incapable ofdoing bad things, become
incapable of not returning alost object.
You, you don't have atemptation, you don't have to
use your willpower if you becomeincapable of doing it so does
it start?

Chris Grainger (12:36):
I mean, does that look like more and more
compromises for guys?
I mean no guy ever wakes up inthe morning says, today, today
I'm gonna ruin my marriage.
I mean that makes no sense.
But it does start with littlebitty compromises to your point
that character development ofbeing incapable.
I mean I just see this as amajor stumbling block for lots
of guys.

Mark Gerson (12:56):
Right, it is a major stumbling block, but I
think the, the incapability ofthe Bible commands totally works
.
I mean, let's say, someone is,is uh, is uh tempted in one's
marriage, okay, uh, if you'renever alone with, if you're
never alone with a woman, you'rebecome incapable of violating

(13:17):
the vows you took when you gotmarried.

Chris Grainger (13:19):
So, mike Pence, role you know, um and by the way
, yeah, it's, it's as biblicaluh derivation and and and and by
the way.

Mark Gerson (13:24):
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's as biblical derivation and
and and resonance.
So that is so.
Everyone struggles withdifferent things.
If that is one thing someonestruggles with, just become
incapable of doing it.
It's actually not that hard,like no one ever walked down the
street and committed adultery.
Right, there are a lot of stepsalong the way and each step

(13:45):
requires the adulterers doingsomething to advance towards the
ultimate act.
At each step he can arresthimself, just so he should just
arrest himself at the verybeginning to say I will make
myself incapable of committingadultery.
And and of course, the highestform of being incapable of
committing adultery is being socommitted to one's spouse that

(14:09):
one cannot think of anotherwoman in that context.
I'm just incapable of eventhinking about another woman
that way, because I'm so devotedto my wife.
So that's the highest level ofincapability.
But even if someone is notthere now, one can be much more
practical about it.
I mean, just become incapableof committing adultery.
It's actually not that hard todo.

Chris Grainger (14:33):
Go ahead.

Mark Gerson (14:34):
Go ahead.

Chris Grainger (14:35):
When you said that about your wife, where you
just kind of you're, you're allin, you're, you're, you're,
you're captivated by her, butthen you still have these other
things that are pulling at youwith pornography and lust and
all this, these temptations.
How do you equip a guy who'smaybe in his marriage?
It's not there right now?
I mean, he's not walking, he'snot doing the things that he

(14:59):
should be doing, he's notcaptivated by her.
Maybe things are just beingstale.
Whatever it may be, where doyou go?

Mark Gerson (15:07):
Where do you point with that guy?
What a great question.
I think the Bible has severaldifferent answers.
One is so I have a chapter inthe book God was right on
routine and the Bible isinsistence on the importance of
routine.
But the commentators, the greatJewish commentators who, being
a Jew, is great because we havethousands of years of

(15:28):
conversations about the sametext.
So one of the things thecommentators have said is that
routine is necessary.
But there's a problem withroutine, and that is routine can
become routinized, and whensomething is routinized it's
boring, and when something isboring it's what Rabbi Norman
Lamb called poison to the soul.
So what's the biblical solution?
We need routine, but theparadox is that routine can

(15:50):
become routinized and it canbecome boring.
So how do we solve that?
Well, the Bible comes in andsays add newness in the routine.
And I go through in the bookhow this is totally described in
what the priest has to wear forthe Yom Kippur ritual in
Leviticus.
So we have to add newness inroutine.
So I would say to men what theBible would tell us to do is

(16:11):
you're going to be married tothe same woman, god willing of
course, but do something newwith her all the time.
Just bring out the newness inher and let her bring out the
newness in you and it won't getboring.
And people can do that in anynumber of different ways.
But marriage should never beboring and if it is, then try to
find something new to dotogether, and the newness is the

(16:34):
ultimate way to break out ofboredom or routinization.
All right, but let's say that'snot working for someone at that
moment.
One pornography is simply poison.
It's all bad.
It's all bad and I go throughthe stats which staggered me
when I came across them in thebook.
But about how ubiquitous thisis I really had no idea.

(16:59):
But how pornographic sitescomprise a significant
percentage of the top 15websites, the amount of web
traffic.
It's staggering and it's allbad.
So I think that that that menand men.
Men don't watch, don't men inthe biblical sense, the sense
adult males consume pornography?
Men don't, right, you know, andso I think.

(17:22):
But it would be very healthyfor an, an adult male, to come
to make that conclusion tohimself.
I want to be a man and as a manI'm not going to go anywhere
near pornography.
I'm going to become incapableof going anywhere near
pornography.
In other words, I'm not goingto load it up, I'm not going to
log in, whatever.
I'm not going to open the Mac,whatever it is, I'm just going
to become incapable of doing it.

(17:42):
Whatever it is, I'm just goingto become incapable of doing it.
And so, whatever device orwhatever form one would consume
pornography, keep it outside ofone's reach, because if
something is outside of yourreach, you can't do it, you're
incapable of it.
You know.
This is why, during our Passoverholiday, we're not, we're not
allowed to eat bread productsfor those seven days.
So the Bible says this is notJewish practice.

(18:03):
Well, it is, but it days.
So the Bible says this is notJewish practice.
Well, it is, but it comesdirectly from the Bible.
It says you shall have thebread out of your home.
Why out of your home?
Because if it's out of yourhome, you're incapable of eating
it.

Chris Grainger (18:14):
That's right, that's right.

Mark Gerson (18:16):
So I think that same biblical lesson that just
get it out of your home, justget it out of your, of course,
out of your heart and out ofyour mind, but but, but just
make it an impossibility, makeit impossible to do.
And I go through in the book howthe modern analogy of this is
do I have, I can't or I don'tgoals.
So if someone says I can't usepornography or I can't do

(18:37):
another bad thing, that thatperson is victim to a voice in
his head, or another personsaying, yes, you can, that thing
, that that person is victim toa voice in his head, or another
person saying, yes, you can.
But if that person says I don'tdo pornography because I'm a
man and men don't do pornography, he's going to be much better
chance of never getting near it.
So I think the analog would beI'm incapable of is the same

(18:58):
thing as saying I don't Becauseif I don't do it, I'm incapable
of it.
If I can't do it, then someoneelse can say, oh, come on, of
course you can, and then we'rehaving a conversation that's not
a conversation you want to have.

Chris Grainger (19:09):
Right, that's a powerful yeah.

Mark Gerson (19:11):
Yeah, no.
I think a man should say a manis as in, not an adult male, but
a man as in be a man should sayI don't do pornography because
I'm a man, and if that man ismarried, he because I'm a man.
And if that man is married, hecan say I don't do pornography
because I'm a man and I'mcommitted to my wife, and this
would totally violate thatsacred covenant with I have with
her.
If he's not married yet and Ihave a chapter on how marriage

(19:34):
is really the best thing in theworld but if he's not married
yet, then then he should say, asa man, I'm not going to do
pornography because of all thedamage that that it will do to
me and to the women who are inthe pornography and to my future
relationships.
It's all bad, it's all damage.
Pornography is damaging to thewoman in the pornography.

(19:55):
So much of sex traffickingrelates to pornography.
It's just horrible and it'stotally degrading to the sexual
sentiment.
In fact, I have the data in thebook too.
The sociologists havedetermined that we are in that
single people, not marriedpeople.
Single people are in a sexualrecession.
That's the term sociologistsgive.

Chris Grainger (20:15):
Sexual recession .

Mark Gerson (20:17):
Sexual recession.
Yeah, they're not single people, they're not, they're really
they're not having sex, and thatreally confounded sociologists
because it's like why I mean whyaren't single people having sex
?
It's not like, it's certainlynothing to do with a prohibition
against premarital sex.
Those prohibitions really onlyexist in certain subcultures

(20:37):
we're talking.
There's a sexual recession incultures where there's no
problem with premarital sex.
So why is it?
It's because of pornography andvideo games.
I mean so, and pornography,video games and also non-marital
sex I have the data on this isso unsatisfying that men prefer
video games particularly newreleases and pornography to sex.

(20:57):
Now, marital sex is entirelydifferent, whereas there's no
sexual recession in the data inmarital sex at all, because it's
fundamentally much morefulfilling and it's just better
for people on every level.
This is what the data says, notwhat the Bible says.
The Bible kind of says that too, but the data says it very
clearly.

Chris Grainger (21:16):
Yeah, that is incredible.
I mean just to think you knowhow quickly that happened to you
.
I mean, just go back to whenthe first video games came out,
and you're playing Super MarioBrothers on a regular.
Nintendo Like I think that thatwould evolve to the point to
where that would overtake yourbrain, to where you would crave
that more than having sex withyour spouse like that.

(21:36):
That's incredible.

Mark Gerson (21:37):
But yeah, it's sex with it's more.
The studies show it more it'ssingle men are not having sex
with their girlfriends orwhoever yeah, no, married men
are having, married couples arehaving plenty of sex.
I mean, it basically proves thisis the data in a very secular
way, proving the Bible is rightthat the best sex is had between

(21:59):
married couples.
Sex is had between marriedcouples and the data suggests
that premarital sex is sounsatisfying that single men are
preferring video games and pornto premarital sex.
So that's in the data, the verysecular data, the social,
scientific data.

Chris Grainger (22:16):
Isn't it funny when science catches up with the
Bible.

Mark Gerson (22:19):
Exactly that's what the whole book's about.
Exactly so, exactly so.
The book is how modern God wasright, how modern social science
proves the Torah is true.
And, chris, it's exactly whatyou said.
It's what I discovered in thein the course of writing the
book was that the Bible is aguidebook that offers guidance
on dozens, perhaps hundreds, ofdifferent subjects, and I just
tested it against what modernsocial science says and, chris,

(22:41):
you got exactly right.
Modern social science, which isentirely secular the social
scientists don't even knowthey're asking the same
questions the Bible asks havecome around to the same
conclusions the Bible gives,teaching us that the Bible is
scientifically worthy of ourstudy and our devotion.
Amen.
No matter what faith somebodyis, the Bible is simply right.
When the Bible tells us howmany times to date somebody

(23:02):
before marrying her, when theBible tells us how to think
about clothing, when the Bibletells us how to think about
diversity or routine orparenting or education, it's
simply been proven right oneverything from a secular lens.

Chris Grainger (23:17):
Guys, we're going to take our first break.
We'll be right back.
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Mark, you had put in one chapterof your book.
It was a funny little dialoguefrom the Seinfeld show.
It was about marriage and itwas just breaking down about how

(24:45):
.
But when I read it I can justsee there's so many guys even
today who just have thismisconception framing of
marriage.
And can you truly be happy ifyou're married and if it's like
the ball and chain?
You hear that type of languageand stuff like that.
The way you pulled out thatcommentary, it was great.
So just help us reframe.

(25:06):
Why, ultimately?
First of all, what is thebiblical design of marriage?
I know, but share it for ourlisteners.
And then, why is that soimportant to be sharing that
with young people in particular?
Because that is where we'rereally missing the opportunity
the most right now.

Mark Gerson (25:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, what a great question.
So I mean so God creates, ofcourse, adam as the first man.
And then God says he observesAdam alone in the garden and he
says God says it is not good forman to be alone.
Now this is a really importantstatement, because the Bible

(25:45):
only says not good twice.
It says it is not good for Adamto be alone.
And then it says it again whenJethro, moses's beloved Gentile
father-in-law, comes to Mosesafter the Exodus and sees Moses
leading alone.
And Jethro says to Moses whatyou are doing, leading alone, is
not good.
Moses leading alone and Jethrosays to Moses what you are doing

(26:05):
, leading alone, is not good.
So the only two times in theBible where we see the term not
good, it refers to somebodybeing alone or doing something
alone.
So aloneness is not good.
Okay, so God notices in earlyGenesis that Adam is alone and
he determines it is not good.
So what does God create for Adam?
Well, as I said in the book, hehad a lot of choices.
He could have created for Adama friend.
He could have created for him agolfing buddy, but he doesn't.

(26:25):
He creates for Adam a wife, and, and the way he creates for a
wife is very interesting andvery important.
There's a mistranslation thatsays that Eve was created from
Adam's rib.
It's not the rib, it's the side, which is really important.
So Eve is created from Adam'sside, which is really important.
So Evie is created from Adam'sside, telling us that a husband

(26:46):
and a wife are like two sidesthat need to be joined together
Very different than a rib, right?
So a husband and wife are twosides that need to come together
.
But the description of a wifeis so like everything in the
Bible, it's just so precise,instructive and magnificent.
It doesn't say wife, it says Ihave created a help against him,
telling us, of course, she's awife, but telling us what is the

(27:09):
role of a wife, or what to herhusband, or what is the role of
a husband to her wife, becausein this case it's symmetrical,
and so what it's saying is thatthe role of a spouse is to be a
help against him or her, inother words, to love that person
, and part of loving that personis making them better, to help
point out flaws, to help pointout failures, to help point out

(27:32):
opportunities for growth and tohelp that person correct the
failures and pursue and achievethose opportunities for growth.
A help against, I will make ahelp against him.
Beautiful description so that'sa husband or a wife, in this
case a wife, but a husband or awife.

(27:53):
So a help against him.
And so that's obviously theideal relationship, because God
could have Adam's alone.
Okay, how do we alleviate hisaloneness or his loneliness?
Well, we do it with a wife, goddoes it with a wife, and we see
this then the importance ofmarriage throughout the Bible,
and we also see in the Bible howto pick your spouse.
And the single worst, perhapsthe single worst piece of advice
ever given was Joe Biden, whowas speaking at some

(28:17):
pharmaceutical conference orconvention or whatever, and he
pulls aside a young woman, Ithink in her late 20s, early 30s
, and he says to her, totallyapropos of nothing, he says let
me give you the advice I give mydaughters and granddaughters no
serious guys till you're 30.
So that was President JoeBiden's advice to some young

(28:43):
woman.
Maybe she was younger than, butit doesn't matter how old she
was.
This was his advice to theyoung women of America no
serious guys till you're 30.
Okay so, but this is theprevailing.
He's not an original guy.
This is the prevailing ideologyof his intellectual and
political culture.
This is the prevailing ideologyof his intellectual and
political culture.
And so what does it mean?

(29:06):
Let's unpack it.
What it means is that anemerging, let's say an
adolescent, emerges.
Teens, late teens, early 20sthey should start dating.
They should date a lot ofpeople, break up with a lot of
people, keep dating more people,break up with more of them, and
then, by the time they get,they get to be 30, according to
Joe Biden, then they shouldstart getting serious and then
presumably get married.
He doesn't specify, but I don'tknow 33, 35, somewhere around

(29:26):
that.
So, yeah, that's clearly thelogic of what Biden's saying
Totally against what the Bible'ssaying.
How do we know it's against theBible?
Saying, well, we have thehappiest marriage in the Bible
is between Isaac and Rebeccaleading us to ask well, how did
they decide to marry each other?
Like, what makes for thehappiest marriage in the Bible?
Everybody wants one.
So what makes for it?
And the Bible comes in and sayswell, I'll tell you.

(29:49):
So Abraham's wife, sarah dies.
And Abraham says to his servant, eliezer, you have to find a
wife for Isaac.
So Eliezer sent a mission finda wife for Isaac.
And Abraham gives him one pieceof advice, or or not advice.
He gives him one instruction.
He says go find a wife forIsaac in Haran.
So why Haran?
Because previously Abraham hadmade souls in Haran.

(30:13):
So what do we know about Haran?
It was a place where there werepeople whose souls can be made,
teaching us what?
That when you want to find ahusband or a wife, look in a
good place.
And then so Eliezer goes tothat good place.
He goes to Haran and heidentifies a woman.
This woman will be.
Rebecca is Rebecca.
He identifies a woman and henotices two and only two things

(30:35):
about her.
One, she's very fair to lookupon and two, she brings water
for him and all of his camels.
So she is ridiculously generousin giving.
So, on the basis of those twoand only two characteristics,
eliezer says to Rebeccaeffectively, you are the woman
for my man, isaac.
And then Rebecca is given thechoice.
She's given the choice.

(30:55):
So people who say the Bible issexist they don't know what
they're reading or talking aboutthey're probably not reading
anything.
They don't know what they'retalking about.
This is one of many examples ofhow the Bible empowers women.
Rebecca in ancient times isgiven the choice do I marry him
or not?
So what does she know aboutIsaac?
She's never met him, but whatdoes she know?
She knows that he's wealthy, sohe'll be a good provider, and

(31:16):
she knows that he loves God.
So, on the basis of those twoand only two characteristics,
rebecca says I will go with youto Eliezer to go marry Isaac.
So what do we learn there?
What we learn there is that thebiblical formula for finding a
spouse is to identify, is tofirst look in a good place.
You want to find a spouse, youknow look in a good place, go to

(31:37):
a good place to find a spouse.
And then, when you're in thatgood place, just look for two
characteristics.
And whether his friends arefunny is not one.
Whether she likes warm or coldweather, vacations is not one.
Look for two importantcharacteristics that'll make for
a good spouse.
There aren't that many tochoose from, maybe five or six,
just look for two, maybe three,and then.
So then what happens?
Well, we go to Genesis 24, 67,which describes what happens

(32:01):
when Isaac meets Rebecca, toGenesis 24, 67, which describes
what happens when Isaac meetsRebecca.
What the text tells us is hemarried her, she became his wife
and he loved her, and the orderof things in the Bible is
always important.
So what's the Bible telling us?
Go to a good place, identifythe two characteristics, then
just get married.
He married her, then she becamehis wife.

(32:21):
So being a spouse must besomething different than getting
married.
So what would it mean to be aspouse?
It means probably we're talkingabout Rebecca so probably
iterative acts of giving, andthen after one gets married and
then one becomes a spouse, andthen he loved her and then love
follows.
So the biblical formula for along and happy marriage it's
very simple, because the Bibleis going to be simple in its

(32:43):
guidance, because everyguidebook is clear and simple,
because we're supposed to followthe guidebook, and the Bible is
the greatest of all theguidebooks.
So the biblical guidebook, thegreatest of them all, it says
identify those twocharacteristics, just get
married, start doing spouse-likethings, and then love will
follow and continually deepen.
And you know, in Western culturewe have really the opposite,

(33:06):
which is we have this ridiculousphrase fall in love.
You can't fall in love.
You could fall in the pool, youcould fall in your face, you
can't fall in love.
What the Bible is telling us isyou don't fall in love.
You cultivate love.
Love grows after commitment.
What the Bible is telling us islove doesn't precede commitment
.
After commitment, what theBible is telling us is love
doesn't precede commitment.
Love follows commitment.
You don't decide to get marriedbecause you love her.

(33:27):
You decide to get marriedbecause he or she has the
characteristics that will makefor a good spouse.
Then you start doingspouse-like things and then love
follows and it continuallydeepens, right.

Chris Grainger (33:40):
What about the age drift?
I mean, how do you address that?
What did you find in yourresearch there?
Because you mentioned Biden'sadvice?
Obviously terrible, but I meanyou hear more and more people
that the statistics show peoplegetting married later they're
having babies later.
That creates all the moredifferent types of problems.
That also creates the problemwhere you're not going to have
very large families, because ifyou don't start until your mid

(34:02):
thirties it's hard to have fouror five kids If you don't start
until you're mid thirties.
That's just the way it is.
So how would you address that?
Where do you see that driftstarting?

Mark Gerson (34:11):
Well, the biblical formula and I read about this in
the book, the biblical formula,the logic is you get married
young because if all you got todo to get married is identify
two or maybe threecharacteristics that actually
optimize for a good spouse, itdoes not take very long to
identify that.
I mean, how long did it takeEliezer to know that Rebecca was

(34:33):
very fair to look upon?
Well, that one was probably twoseconds.
Okay, how long did it take himto notice that she was
exceptionally generous?
Again, not very long.
These characteristics, they'refairly easy to identify, they
pronounce themselves early.
And I go through in the book howthere's this concept that
hadn't been previously appliedto romance but it's applied to

(34:55):
decision-making theory ingeneral, called information
overload, which is in business.
If you analyze an investment,you could do that past the.
If you analyze an investmentpast, you could do that past the
point of no return or past thepoint where there are positive
returns.
In other words, we all knowfrom making decisions of any
kind, whether it's in business,whether it's investing, whether
it's dating, that there's acertain amount of information
and that's enough.

(35:15):
You know, like when you want tobuy a house, like how much do
you have to know, you have toknow something.
But do I mean, there's a limitto what you have to do when you
want to buy anything a car, ahouse, an investment?
Yes, you have to do yourresearch and know some things,
but at that point you just makea decision and, uh, and it's
exactly the same thing withromance.

(35:36):
So the biblical formula, thelogic of it, is early marriage.
Because if you say, look, I'mjust going to, I'm going to, I
really want to get married,because marriage is and the data
shows is the ultimate source ofhappiness, I want to get
married.
So how do I do that?
I'm going to go to a good placeand I'm going to look for two
characteristics, which are whichare going to pronounce
themselves really quickly,because they do.

(35:56):
And then, once they pronouncethose really quickly, I'm not
going to do what so many youngpeople do now, which is to look
for 200 other characteristics.

Chris Grainger (36:04):
Yeah, no, I got my two or my three.

Mark Gerson (36:05):
This is awesome, I'm done Great, let's get
married Right, and so thatshould predict for early
marriage.
And, chris, to your point too,yes, people are getting married
much later now.
Well, I mean, first, thedivorce rate's down from the 80s
.
That rates down from the 80s.
That's only because few peopleare getting married at all,

(36:25):
that's right.
Not many get married, right,that's good, exactly, exactly,
so it's.
It's, the data looks good, butbut it's, it's actually a
smaller denominator, so it's notgood at all.
But, um, I, I have these statsfrom e-harmony in the book that
says that the average coupledates for 2.6 years before
getting married.
Like, why, what do you need 2.6years to figure out the?
The two or threecharacteristics announce
themselves in a few weeks.
2.6 years, what do you?
What do they?
I mean, I really don't knowwhat they're doing.
Or I mean, well, I know whatthey're doing.

(36:47):
They're looking forcharacteristics that are
ultimately irrelevant, which isironic because people date for
long periods of time the 2.6years and they reported to the
sociologists.
They date because they'relooking for compatibility.
So look for all thesecharacteristics to determine
compatibility.
But then the Institute forDivorced Financial Analysts

(37:09):
analyzed why people get divorcedand the number one answer basic
incompatibility.
So it's just tragic ironyPeople search for years looking
for compatibility and then getdivorced because they don't have
it, because you're notcompatible.
Based upon characteristic 137,you're, you're compatible with
the first two or three, then yougot to get married, do spouse

(37:30):
like things, and then the lovewill follow yeah, it's almost
like society's even taught now,like if you go too fast, like
you're acting irrationally, likeyeah, exactly, irrationally,
irrationally yeah, it's theopposite, like I, I have.
I have so much, my wife and I,we have so much praise and
respect for these young coupleswho who get married young and
and it's it's, it's it'shappening in in in lots of parts

(37:54):
of America.
I mean, I spoke at thiswonderful church in Texas and I
mean I'm from New York, so thiskind of thing doesn't happen
here nearly as often as itshould.
But I spoke at this wonderfulchurch in Texas and I met,
person after person, these youngpeople.
It's like, yeah, I'm 22.
She's 21.
We're getting married in sixmonths, or I'm 28.
She's 27.
Here are three kids.
It's like these people aredoing it right, they totally got

(38:15):
it, and, and which is totallythe opposite of the Joe Biden
advice, which is wait tillyou're 30 before you start even
getting serious- Right, right.

Chris Grainger (38:24):
Well, I don't know how much we should be
listening to Sleepy Joe anyway,but anyway, how about longevity?
Because I love some of thestatistics you pulled out around
.
Longevity for men, like, notonly does it lead you to a more
happy life, to a more fulfilledlife, but it seems to be their
stats as well it leads to alonger life.
So just speak to that.

Mark Gerson (38:45):
Married people are happier and live longer.
I mean, the stats are veryclear about that and the only
thing debated is the reasons why, but it almost doesn't matter.
It's like if you're married,you will live longer.
Why is that the case?
I don't know why it matters,Just get married.
But yeah, married people livesignificantly longer.
I have all the stats in thebook and married people live

(39:07):
longer and active, butnon-full-time grandparents live
longer.
And that's another biblicalteaching about the deep
importance of grandparenthoodand how being close to one's
grandchildren and being activelyinvolved in their lives gives
the grandparent this sense offuture orientation.

(39:29):
And active grandparents arehappier, they're less likely to
develop neurological conditionsand they're much more likely to
live longer.
So what the Bible would say ismarriage plus active grandparent
equals longevity, and that'swhat modern social science
confirms.

Chris Grainger (39:46):
So when you say active grandparent, like give me
a couple of examples what areyou seeing there?
Are they taking care of themall during the day or they just
spending time with them on theweekend?
Like what would be just ageneral framework for an active
grandparent?

Mark Gerson (39:59):
Yes, it's a great question.
So active grandparent isdistinguished in the literature
from full-time grandparent.
Yes, it's a great question.
So active grandparent isdistinguishing the literature
from full-time grandparent.
So the parent should befull-time.
So what's an active grandparent?
So it's a great question,because what's an active
anything?
An active anything is someonewho's dependent on, and each

(40:21):
family that could be differentthings.
You know, in the Torah's view,there's one really important and
indispensable role for thegrandparent, which is educating
the grandchildren.
And we see in the ancientrabbinic literature that there
was a debate is it a greater joyto teach one's grandchildren or

(40:42):
to learn from one'sgrandchildren?
But the premise is learningwith one's grandchildren is the
best thing of all.
And but the Bible says this youshall teach it to your children
and your children's children.
Right out of the Bible, rightout of Exodus, and so in the, in
the Bible, the grandparent hasthe sacred responsibility of
education.
The grandparent has this sacredresponsibility of education.

(41:06):
So, and that's something thatthat's a responsibility, it's,
it's, it's a commitment, asdistinguished from showing up
once in a while and giving outtreats.
Right, it's, you got to educateyour grandchildren.
And it makes total sociologicalsense why this would be a good
thing for grandparents to do.
One grandparents are physicallycapable of educating.
You know, as as we get olderand we become at least for me,
I'm 52.

(41:26):
You know, as we get older, lesscapable of doing things than
when we were in our 20s,obviously, and as you get to be
a grandparent, even fewer.
But you can still educate yourgrandchildren, no problem.
So they're plenty physicallycapable of doing it.
They also have wisdom, so theyhave a lot to teach and a lot to
share, and they also have time.
They also have wisdom.
So they have a lot to teach anda lot to share, and they also
have time.
So the parents may need to betaking care of the other

(41:47):
children or working.
The grandparents, hopefully,don't have to do either.
So they have that time.
And what the Bible say, yes,invest that time in educating
your grandchildren.
And so that's what the Biblesays.
And I think in modern society,educating one's grandchildren.
Of course the grandchildren cango to school or if they're
homeschooled, maybe thegrandparent can partake in that.

(42:08):
But there's certainly aneducational role and component
that a grandparent can play inany child's life and that
educational component is notgiving occasional pieces of
advice, but like we're going tolearn this together.
That could be Bible.
It could be something else.
You know, I know grandparentswho, who, who, basically take
over their kids math instruction, because the grandparent would
happen to be really good at math, and other grandparents take

(42:29):
over the kids Bible instruction.
It's like whatever the giftsand capabilities of the
grandparent teach thegrandchildren.
But there could be a lot.
There are lots of other waysgrandparents can be involved, of
course, in addition toeducating.
I mean it could be picking thekids up from school, helping
them with their homework,helping them with other kinds of
programs.
I mean, every family isdifferent and every

(42:51):
grandparent's different, everygrandchild's different, every
parent's different.
So active grandparenthood canand does mean very different
things in very differentfamilies.
And you know what the Bible andmodern social science would say
.
You know it's all good as longas it's active and as long as
the grandparent is a reallyimportant part of that kid's

(43:11):
life.
You know, not just someone whoshows up once in a while and has
fun with the grandchild, butsomeone who's a really important
part of that kid's life,someone the grandchild really
depends on, relies upon, learnsfrom on a consistent basis.
That's an act ofgrandparenthood, love it.

Chris Grainger (43:27):
Love it.
Guys, I'm going to take a quickbreak.
We'll be right back with more.
We're making a big change thatI think you're really going to
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I spent a lot of time thinkingabout our spiritual kickoffs and
, honestly, I love doing themeach week, so much so we started
doing them live every Mondaythrough Friday inside our

(43:48):
exclusive platform, and here'sthe best part we decided to give
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spiritual kickoff space at nocost.
Every day, we go live to readthe word, to encourage each
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(44:09):
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You'll even have the chance toengage with me directly, and if
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(44:30):
So if you're ready to getstarted, head over to the lion
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Let's grow together.
Mark, one of the areas I wasreally hoping to get your
insight on out of your book,because I run into this so much
in myself, as well as other menthat come to the line within us
is just the pandemic ofloneliness period Outside the

(44:53):
confines of marriage.
But we have lots of guys whojust don't have many brothers in
Christ.
They don't have those types ofrelationships anymore.
How do you encourage, how doyou equip, how do you counsel
guys who just right now, if theylook at their list, they have
lots of Facebook friends, butthey that's, that's all surface
level crap.

Mark Gerson (45:12):
We know that like there's no actual deep
relationship.

Chris Grainger (45:15):
So what do you?
What do you counsel there?

Mark Gerson (45:17):
Well, chris, the studies show you're exactly
right.
So people have lots of Facebookfriends or other social media
friends, but I have the data onthis in the book the number of
people that respondents identifyas close friends has
consistently gone down over thelast 30, 40 years and and that's
a real problem.
And but there's a real solution, which is to be in a faith

(45:43):
community.
If you're really in a faithcommunity, you're going to have
friends, and I think it's the.
I don't have the data on this,but I do think it's logic and
maybe even common sense that thedecline of participation in
faith communities correlateswith the decline of friendships.
Communities correlates with thedecline of friendships.

(46:05):
I don't know people in tightfaith communities who don't have
a lot of friends.
Or, to frame it positively,people in tight faith
communities have a lot offriends and they have a lot of
friends in the most meaningfulway.
And the greatest rabbi of alltime, maimonides, actually
borrowing from Aristotle, hetalked about the four kinds of
friendship.
Aristotle had the three.
So the four kinds of friendshipare friends of pleasure, that's

(46:27):
somebody that you'll just enjoywatching a game with.
Right yeah friends of use,that's someone you do business
with.
Those are two of our shelves.
Maimonides added friends ofproximity, which is your
neighbor, and then they both hadthe fourth, which is friends of
the good.
And what are friends of thegood?
What's friendship of the goodabout?

(46:47):
Friendship of the good is abouttwo people, or a group of
friends who believe thatsomething that they share in
common is sacred.
It could be a church, it couldbe a synagogue, it could be a
cause, it could be anything, buttheir friendship is about
something.
It could be a charity thatthey're involved in together
because they want to improve theworld in a certain way and

(47:09):
their partnership is helping dothat and their friendship
develops accordingly.
So these are friendships of thegood.
And where is the best place todevelop friendships of the good?
In your faith community.
And because faith communitiesthey should be, they should be
about good.
Now they could be doingdifferent kinds of good, and
I've been speaking at, I'vespoken, I've been so blessed, my

(47:32):
wife and I my wife's a rabbiand we've been so blessed to
speak at many churches, andevery time we are just so
gratified and so impressed, evenblown away, by just how many
good and great things arehappening in each of the
churches, how many separateministries there are to help
people in so many different ways.
So, if someone's in one ofthose churches and they're in
one of the ministries helpingyoung men develop the skills of

(47:56):
mechanics which is one thingthat we saw helping people of
special needs kids, I mean wesee so many different ministries
, all of which are important and, I would say, sacred.
I mean, if you're workingtogether with someone in one of
those ministries, they're goingto become, you're going to have
friends and you're going to havefriends of the good and you're
not going to be lonely.
So, yeah, there's something ofa friendship crisis, but I don't

(48:17):
think that crisis exists amongpeople in faith communities who
are really in faith community.
And I distinguish, like if yougo to church, you go to
synagogue, like once in a whileyou just go and you leave the
building.
You're not really in the faithcommunity, you're just going
into the building for theservice and then you're leaving.
But being deeply immersed inthe community, building
something with other people inthe community, you're going to
make friends doing that.
And I have another chapter inthe book too it's going to be

(48:37):
good for business becausethere's this great promise in
Deuteronomy.
So God doesn't make guaranteesin the Bible.
Why doesn't God make guaranteesin the Bible?
God hates guarantees.
Why?
Because there's no notion offaith.
If God's the ATM machine in thesky, there's no notion of faith
.
Right, right, if the deal isyou say the right prayers or do

(48:59):
the right things and then youget what you want, what's the
role of faith?
It's just a transaction, it'snot a relationship, and God
wants a relationship.
So God does not do guarantees,except in one case, whereas in
Deuteronomy 15.10, it sayseffectively, not literally, but
effectively if you givegenerously and enthusiastically
to the poor, you will be blessedin all of your undertakings.
Now, blessings are material.
So what the Bible is telling usis that if you give generously,

(49:21):
enthusiastically to the poor,you'll become better off
materially.
Okay, so that's strange,because normally you think if I
give something, I have one lessof it and the recipient has one
more right.

Chris Grainger (49:36):
The Bible is saying yeah, but that law
doesn't apply to charity to whenyou give to the poor.

Mark Gerson (49:40):
So when you get to the poor, forget that law,
because if you give you'll beblessed in all your undertaking,
so if you give you will getmore.
Ok, then I ask as a rationalistwell how Well it turns out.
The social science data saysit's exactly right is that those
who are charitable end up doingmuch better financially than
those who are not.
All the personal financestudies that give all these

(50:02):
recommendations about how youcan improve your personal
finance.
They say give more to charity.

Chris Grainger (50:07):
It's like well, how's that going to improve my
personal finance?

Mark Gerson (50:09):
Well, the Bible says it does, and the modern,
contemporary, totally secularpersonal finance people are
saying, yes, it's true, givemore to charity and you'll have
more money, which seemscounterintuitive.
But then why is it so?
I try to figure it out in thebook, and I think there are
several different reasons as towhy those who give to charity
prosper financially, but one ofwhich is that so I'm the

(50:37):
co-chairman of one charity andthe chairman and founder of two
others, so I've seen this inthree instances is that very few
people give because they searchfor a general cause online and
then give a big gift.
It's very rarely People give incommunity, people give in
fellowship, and so if someone isimmersed in a community that
does charity and that could beone's church, of course, one
synagogue or anotherorganization they're going to

(50:57):
develop these close bonds offriendship around the thing or
the institution or the causethat they all agree is sacred.
So if there are 10 people whohave developed a friendship by
supporting a ministry, in achurch or a charity, and then,
or 10 people, let's say 100people, and then you need to

(51:20):
hire a plumber, who are yougoing to pick?
Are you going to go to theinternet to try to find a review
of some plumber?
Or are you going to say, wait,that person who is in my church,
who did that great thing, forthat ministry?
I'm going to hire him because Itrust him and I like him and I
want him to prosper.

Chris Grainger (51:37):
Right, it's how it works.
That's how it works.
That's it.
I'm curious.
What a book of this magnitude.
I can only imagine thecountless hours of research.

Mark Gerson (51:47):
So what was, maybe what insight surprised you the
most when you were doing yourresearch, as you were putting
this together, I would say thething that surprised me the most
when you were doing yourresearch, as you were putting
this together, I would say thething that surprised me the most
is how comprehensive and howrelevant the Bible is.
The Bible covers I mean, thebook's a long book.

(52:07):
It's about 900 pages and it hasto be a long book because the
Bible covers so many differentsubjects.
And I wanted to explore is theBible true on anything?
Nothing, everything, somethings.
So I had to cover a lot ofsubjects.
So I think there are 33chapters and I found out the
Bible is true on everything.
But I was astonished by howcomprehensive the Bible is and

(52:29):
comprehensive, and not just ongeneral subjects.
The Bible has very specificopinions as to how many dates
you should go on before you getmarried, what kind of clothing
you should wear in the morning,like very specific and practical
things.
So I was astonished by howcomprehensive it is, how it
covers everything, fromdiversity to anti-fragility, to
education, to reframing, toclothing, to dating.
It covers everything and itdoes so with guidance that's

(52:53):
totally applicable to 2025.
So this leads to the questionwho wrote the Bible?
Well, chris, I like to thinkyou know if someone gave you or
me the assignment.
I want you to write a bookabout everything that's going to
be completely relevant in theyear 6000.
We would say to that personyou're insane.
Like that's not even a goodquestion.

(53:14):
It's an insane question becauseno man is capable of even
thinking about that, let alonedoing it.
We're not even.
We don't know what's going toexist 20 years from now, let
alone a thousand years from now.
I mean, it's an insane task anduh, but you know, the Bible did
it.
It did it.
It addressed everything that'stotally relevant in the year
2025.
So then, who wrote the Bible?
I conclude from that, as arationalist, that God must have

(53:38):
either written the Bible orprofoundly influenced the Bible,
and the latter is consistentwith what happens in the Bible,
because everything that happenedafter creation God does in
partnership with man.
So there had to have been verysignificant divine intervention
in the writing of the Bible,because no human being could
even think about doing it, letalone do it.

Chris Grainger (53:58):
Amen, amen, mark , this has been phenomenal.
Before we wrap up, though,let's have a fun little
lightning round with ourlisteners.
A little bit of fun here at theend.
So you already mentioned you'rea big runner.
What else do you enjoy doingfor fun?
Do you have any hobbies outthere?

Mark Gerson (54:14):
I would say so.
When I, when I wrote the book,I said I can only write well
when I'm smoking a cigar.
Okay, so, whenever I traveled Iwould find a place where I could
smoke a cigar, cause I could, Ineed.
I really gave me the focus andthe concentration.
And then, about a year ago, afriend of mine introduced me to
Zen, so introduced me to Zen.

(54:42):
So I've substituted a lot, of,a lot of my cigar smoking with
Zen.
So I, I, I, I write with eithercigars or Zen.
Okay, how long did it take youto write the book?
Um, three and a half years.
But, um, um, but certainly notfull time.
I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm abusinessman and I and I co-chair
one charity and chair twoothers, so I'm very involved
philanthropically andcommercially.
But it took, but, but with thatit took, it took three and a
half years.
I can only write well for twoto two and a half hours a day.

(55:02):
So I would basically study fortwo to four hours a day and then
write for two and a half hoursa day and and that's it.

Chris Grainger (55:13):
You're a machine brother, you're a machine, all
right, so you finished runningthose six miles.
What's your nutrition?
What's your go-to food?
What's?

Mark Gerson (55:22):
your favorite.
So many years ago, like 25years ago now, I lost 60 pounds.
So I have a very strict dietand this is right from the Bible
.
So there's this question in andthere's this question in the
ancient rabbinic literature.
There was, like this Biblequoting contest what's the most
important verse in the Bible?
So one person says you know oneof the greatest hits, shema

(55:43):
Yisrael, hero, israel.
Another person says you shalllove the neighbor as yourself.
In comes Ben Pazza and he saysthe most important verse in the
Bible is from Exodus 28, whichsays you shall sacrifice a lamb
in the morning and a lamb in theafternoon.
And then it says by a claim, hewins.
So why is the most importantverse in the Bible, one that
most people never heard of youshould sacrifice a lamb in the
morning, one in the afternoontelling us that the most
important thing is what we doconsistently.

(56:05):
What do we do in the morningand the afternoon, day after day
?
So my diet is consistent, whichit kind of has to be.
As someone who used to beoverweight, I just need a very
consistent diet.
So it's a lot of egg whites, alot of lean protein, grilled
chicken, smoked turkey,definitely no potatoes, tabasco
sauce instead of salad dressing.
So a very consistent diet.

Chris Grainger (56:27):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
So what do you think about God?
What's your favorite thingabout him, Mark?
What do you think about God?

Mark Gerson (56:35):
What's your favorite thing about him, mark?
My favorite thing about God isthat and the Torah is so clear
on this what does God want fromeach of us?
It's something he wants witheach of us, which is a
relationship.
So this is all throughout theTorah.
God wants a relationship witheach of us, and I love being in
relationship with God, andeveryone should be.
God wants a relationship witheach and every person.
It's so clear all throughoutthe Bible.

(56:55):
I mean the Bible.
I was just because I teach.
If anyone wants to come, Iteach through this incredible
parachurch ministry devoted toChristian Zionism and Bible
Semitism called Eagle's Wings.
I teach every Tuesday at noon,eastern time on Zoom.
Just go to Torah Tuesday and wewere talking about this I think
it was two weeks ago when wewere going through the portion

(57:17):
of Exodus we were studying,which is that God says I will
build a sanctuary within them.
In other words, god wants to bewithin us, god wants a
relationship with each of us,and so that's one of the many
things that we love about God.

Chris Grainger (57:31):
Amen, let's flip it 180.
What's your least favoritething about the evil one?

Mark Gerson (57:39):
Well, in Judaism we don't really have that concept.
So I would say we have aslightly different concept.
It's called the Yetzirah, whichis the evil inclination.
So the evil inclination isChris, that's what we were
talking about before.
The evil inclination ispornography, right, or whatever

(57:59):
is tempting someone right now.
And I think the Bible says justmake yourself incapable of it,
whatever it is.
Whatever anyone's evilinclination is, make yourself
incapable of it.
So, whatever it is and theBible's guidance is so practical
Like there's no one would eversay I just can't do that.

(58:20):
Of course you can.
There's always a way to makeyourself incapable of it and
it's usually not that hard.
In fact it's never hard.
Just make yourself incapable ofit and the evil inclination
will uh, we'll never getanywhere near you.

Chris Grainger (58:31):
There you go Well, mark.
Last question for you is whatdo you hope the listeners out
there remember the most from ourconversation today?

Mark Gerson (58:37):
Well, first, I've totally enjoyed every minute of
it, so thank you, I would say.
The one thing I hope thelisteners take away is how
practical, interesting andrelevant the Bible is Like.
The Bible is the most relevanttext.
It is the best guidebook everwritten for people living in the
year 2025.

Chris Grainger (58:56):
Right, right, amen.
But where do you want to sendthem to connect with you, to get
a copy of the book?
Follow all the stuff thatyou're doing it.
I don't know social mediachannels and things like that as
well.

Mark Gerson (59:06):
Thank you, yeah, I just go.
Anyone can just go to God wasrightcom and yeah, and the book,
the book can be gotten fromthere and it just links to the
bookseller sites.
But, yeah, godwasrightcom, andanyone can email me at Mark at
GodWasRightcom.

Chris Grainger (59:20):
All right, all right, mark.
Was there anything else you'dlike to share today?

Mark Gerson (59:23):
No, just I'm just so grateful to you for this
incredible conversation, thisopportunity to share the word
with your listeners.
So thank you, Chris.

Chris Grainger (59:30):
Yeah, mark, thank you, sir, I hope you have
a wonderful day.
Thank you so much.

(59:51):
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(01:00:15):
started today.
All right, fellas, I told youit's going to be a good one.
So thankful for Mark forsharing.
Uh, the question of the weekthis week is are you treating
marriage as a covenant or acontract?
So again, covenant, no matterwhat I do, contracts, say if you
, then I and fellas, I'm justtelling you Mark, he showed us
time and time again, stat afterstat after stat, how God's

(01:00:39):
designed for man to be unitedwith a spouse, with a wife, how
that is just it's.
It leads to a such a fulfillinglife and opportunity for us to
serve him in a meaningful way.
So if you guys that are marriedout there hopefully enjoyed it,
for you guys that are singleout there, hopefully that gave

(01:00:59):
you some really goodencouragement as well as some
practical tips.
Remember you don't look overtwo qualities, fellows.
If you can check those.
A couple of those move forward.
All right.
So, guys, if you enjoyed this,share it out, give us a rating
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(01:01:43):
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All right, so come back onFriday.

(01:02:04):
We'll see you for our funFriday episode.
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