August 20, 2025 • 61 mins
When Roland Warren and his girlfriend discovered they were pregnant during their college years at Princeton, they faced an immediate suggestion from the campus nurse: "Of course you're going to have an abortion." Their decision to choose life instead—creating a family that would thrive despite dire predictions—laid the foundation for Roland's life's work and a revolutionary approach to the abortion debate.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Grainger (00:04):
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast
serving Christian men who arehungry to be the leaders God
intends you to be.
I'm your host, chris Granger.
Let's jump in.
All right, guys, meat episodetime.
Let's get into it, okay.
So the scripture of the week isJames 1, chapter 27, verse okay
2-7.
It says religion that God, ourFather, accepts as pure and
(00:25):
thoughtless is this to lookafter orphans and widows in
their distress and to keeponeself from being polluted by
the world.
So, guys, go back and listen tothe spiritual kickoff episode.
We took some time to unpackthat at length.
Okay.
Again, if you enjoy thespiritual kickoff episode each
week, monday through Friday, wedo it within the line within us
(00:49):
and it's completely free.
So go to the line within uswithin dot U S.
Get started today, okay.
So this episode is going to beanother great one.
Fellas, looking forward toletting you hear this
conversation with Roland Warren.
So he's the president and theCEO of Care Net and that's one
of the largest in the nationactually networks of evangelical
(01:12):
pregnancy centers.
Okay, so he came from.
He went to Princeton University, wharton School of Business
obviously extremely brilliant,brilliant man.
He spent over two decades inthe corporate sector, worked
with tons of major companies,but he's transitioned and now
(01:32):
he's writing these books.
He's serving in this area andreally focusing on the pro-life
actually let me correct myselfthe pro-abundant life movement
and that's what I enjoyed somuch about this Married kids,
grandkids, great guy out ofMaryland, I think you're going
(01:55):
to really enjoy thisconversation with Roland Ward.
Welcome to the Lion Within Us.
How are you doing today, sir?
Roland Warren (02:00):
I'm well, I'm well.
Thanks for having me on theshow.
Chris Grainger (02:04):
I appreciate it.
You must be an early riser likeme, because most guests don't
want to record at 8.30 in themorning.
So are you an early?
Are you a go-getter?
Roland Warren (02:12):
Yeah, I'm up by five, so this is almost.
It's almost lunchtime for mealready.
Chris Grainger (02:16):
That's right, that's right.
Half the day's gone by right,that's right, that's right.
Well, before we dive in becausethis is going to be a really
fun one for sure, maybe sharesomething fun about you, roland,
that not many people know about.
I always just like to start ina light way.
Roland Warren (02:31):
Geez, I don't know if there's that much that's
fun about me, I want to.
I mean, maybe oddities for somefolks is that I do have this
thing for squirrels.
So if you come to my officeit's kind of like a kind of of a
nut house a little bit, withall the different pictures of
squirrels and various ways, andpeople give me different
cartoons and various otherthings.
(02:52):
I've been putting those aroundfor a number of years, so so I
don't know if people would knowthat or not, but I imagine most
people probably don't.
Chris Grainger (03:01):
So is the squirrel thing from like, from
your childhood, like.
When did you start likingsquirrels?
Roland Warren (03:07):
I used to be in sales and I remember one of the
managers once said that even ablind squirrel gets a nut
sometimes.
In other words, that was justkind of a way to get the sales
folks out of the office and intothe streets.
Ain't nobody in here buyingstuff, so you need to be out
there.
So my wife bought me, uh, shefound this, this stuffed
(03:29):
squirrel, and uh, she gave it tome and I, I put a you know tape
across the eyes as my remindernot be at my desk but to be to
be out, and so that kind ofstarted it and then, and then
the collection uh, went fromthere.
So I'm not kind of one of thesecrazy people that wears like
squirrel underwear and stufflike that.
Right, right, nothing on thepersonal body, no squirrel watch
(03:49):
or anything like that.
But the external stuff is fine.
Chris Grainger (03:53):
Well, I may be able to change you though.
So now you're in Maryland, soyou're not too far.
So you just got to come down toRichmond because their baseball
team is the Flying Squirrels.
You'd be in love right therethere.
Their baseball team is a flyingsquirrels.
Roland Warren (04:03):
You'd fall, You'd be in love right there.
You know, there you go, thereyou go.
You have to get me a shirt orsomething, that's right.
That's right, kind of fun.
Chris Grainger (04:10):
There you go, there you go.
Well, I'm excited to talk withyou, roland for sure.
Thank you so much for the copyof your book the Alternate to
Abortion.
While we must be pro abundant,I really just love that Anything
abundant life.
John 10, 10, I'm all in.
So when I saw it I'm like, yeah, we have to have him.
But your story started withreally a personal testimony in
(04:31):
the book.
So maybe just get our readersup to speed a little bit about
your background and what led youto going down this path and
tackling this topic that is so,so, vitally important for
Christians.
Roland Warren (04:44):
Yeah, no, it really does.
It kind of goes back to when Iwas a junior in college, I was
undergraduate at Princeton and Igot my girlfriend, who was a
sophomore, pregnant Now I guessto tell people all the time kind
of start off with the punchlinemy wife of 43 years.
But we got pregnant.
We were facing unplannedpregnancy.
(05:04):
We're Christians on campusdoing stuff that Christians
shouldn't be doing, obviously,and we felt the consequences of
it and the result of that sin.
So, you know, she went toStudent Health Services to get a
pregnancy test and the nursedelivers the test, gives her the
news, says you know you're,you're pregnant and, without
taking an extra gulp of air,really just says now, of course
(05:24):
you're going to have an abortion.
And you know, my wife says no,I don't want to have an abortion
, I want to get married, I wantto have my baby.
And the nurse is like how areyou going to graduate from
Princeton with a baby?
Doesn't seem like it makes alot of sense, doesn't seem like
it's what she wants to do.
And she says I want to become adoctor.
The nurse is like gosh, how areyou going to become a doctor
(05:48):
with a baby?
Graduate with a baby Doesn'tseem like a wise choice.
And you know, I kind of thinkshe probably came back to the
dorm room and kind of gave methe news on that and you know, I
kind of said to her what youknow, what we had agreed upon.
Agreed upon, we're just goingto move forward with the plan.
And we did.
(06:08):
And we got married and had ourfirst son at Princeton, and
actually he was born rightbefore, not too long before I
graduated, and so I have thisgreat picture of me carrying him
with my graduation hat andstuff like that.
And she went on to graduatefrom Princeton not with one baby
but with two.
You know it's Ivy League, soyou've got to overachieve.
(06:29):
So why try to graduate with onebaby?
You can do it with two.
So anyway, so we did that.
So she carried our younger son,justin, in the graduation that
picture is actually in the book,yes and went on to become a
doctor.
It's been practicing medicineclose to 30 years now.
So you know, as I saw firsthand,you know that you know being
(06:50):
faced with that decision.
I understand the temptationthat it is to kind of put the
baby away if you will, and youknow when you feel like your
hopes and your dreams and youraspirations are at risk and how
there's the temptation to dothat thing and we didn't.
And so we've seen that.
And you know the son that wewere supposed to abort.
You know me, you know thisgreat guy and went to Harvard.
(07:12):
He's a smart, smart kid, andyou know.
So we really saw firsthand thatyou know how God works, you know
through these situations, andso part of my passion around
this is really to help folks,you know, see that perspective.
There's this great picture ofmy wife holding our
granddaughter, who was thedaughter of the son we were
(07:32):
supposed to abort, and I lovethat picture because you know
the notion behind abortion isthat nothing good will come to
this from this.
You know nothing good will come.
So you know she's sitting thereas a 19 year old and the nurse
is saying nothing good will comefrom this.
This is not, you know, not50-50.
This is like a net negative foryour life.
And you know I see my wifeholding our granddaughter and
(07:54):
the look on her face and all ofthat.
And the thing was, you know,when my wife was 19, she
couldn't see that picture, shedidn't see that future.
She didn't see that, but Goddid, and that's why it's
important to trust God.
You know, children are a giftfrom the Lord and they're a gift
that he gives us and he wantsus to nurture and bless and
raise up in the fear andadmonition of Him.
And so you know, we see that,and we saw the results of that
(08:16):
and that's, you know, a lot ofways, that's the abundance that
comes from when we sin, that God, you know, that, can take those
things that we do and use them,you know, for our good and for
his glory, and I certainly seethat in terms of what happened
with our story.
Chris Grainger (08:31):
I'm curious of the nurse Was this a you know?
Was this a Planned Parenthoodfacility, or?
Or I mean no, just studenthealth services.
Roland Warren (08:38):
You know where the students go to get any kind
of medical stuff.
No, just student healthservices.
You know where the students goto get any kind of medical stuff
?
Yeah, so she, you know.
I mean she could have said youknow who's the father, where's
the father?
Maybe we can come to the nextvisit to support you know, your
choice or his child.
I mean, she could have done allof that or how can we help you,
support you in your choice.
(09:00):
And she was, you know, an olderwoman obviously than my, than my
wife, and possibly a motherherself.
She could have leaned into thatperspective, but she, she
didn't, you know, she leaned toa perspective that really didn't
give her much choice.
She essentially kind of said toher well, you really don't have
a choice here and the onlyright choice is, you know, is
abortion.
And I think for so many womenin that vulnerable moment, when
(09:32):
the people who could supportthem or encourage them, you know
, to make a life decision, whenthey have someone who says that
to them, it can be veryinfluential and especially if
they're not anchored in you know, a perspective, you know the
child is a blessing and that Godhas a hope, has a future for
you, you know, a hope in thefuture not to harm you, hoping
the future not to harm you, youknow, and they don't lean into
that, then it can be very easyfor you to.
You know, sacrifice thevulnerable for your own you know
success or for your own futureas as you see it in that moment.
Chris Grainger (09:51):
Yeah Well, I'm curious because you know I'm
thinking young cop, youngcollege kids getting pregnant.
You know, obviously, yourChristian convictions.
You knew what you were going todo.
What about your families?
How was the response there?
Were they as supportive?
Because that can be challengingas well.
Roland Warren (10:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think you know both were
supportive in the sense of, youknow, neither side pressured us
to have an abortion, you know,and so that was really good in
terms of that.
And you know they hadn't reallywanted us to get married before
then, but you know they were,you know they were fine with us
getting married after thishappened and we kind of started
(10:31):
our life together that way.
But you know, for so manypeople, if you don't, if you
have family members that arediscouraging you from doing it,
then obviously that has anenormous impact.
I mean, one of the insightsthat I feel like I've had as
I've gotten older is just thepower of people who are close to
you and the way that that voicethat they speak in that moment
(10:54):
can really lead you down a pathof sin.
I mean, it goes all the wayback to the garden, right?
So if you think about Adam inthe garden, so the question I
have thought about is did Satanapproach Adam to sin before Eve?
Did he, you know?
And if he did, obviously hewasn't successful, right?
And then he either waited forEve or he was successful when
(11:16):
Eve was there.
And I think the principle thereis that intimate relationships,
close relationships, can oftendrive us to move away from God's
principles and God's standards.
You know, and so you see thaton issues like whether it's you
know, whether it's you knowsame-sex issue, or whether it's
you know, the trans issue orabortion or whatever, you don't
(11:40):
really find folks saying youknow, I was going through
scripture and I found inscripture support for many of
these perspectives.
It always is.
Well, you know, I have a familymember who is living that
lifestyle or has thatperspective, and I love that
family member and so I've chosethe path of kind of going with
that family member rather thanthe path of going with God's
(12:01):
word.
So he really does use, you know, sort of intimate relationships
to draw us away from him andabortion is also, you know, sort
of one of those things thatends up in that same perspective
100%, 100%.
Chris Grainger (12:15):
And I love in your book you know you kind of
you hear pro-life all the time,and of course I do, and we hear
the stances behind that, butpro-abund, abundant life, that,
that, that hits and that hitsgood.
I want to say, when I got thebook I'm like, oh, I like this
because I mean John 1010, we hadthat in our barn, at our farm.
(12:35):
I'm a 1010 guy.
You know my favorite, myfavorite pastors, he had a two
year.
He called it a 1010 journey.
He he's out of Florida and itwas great.
So I'm just curious, when youwere starting and working
through this and praying throughthis, like, how did you come up
with that, the pro abundantlife?
Roland Warren (12:55):
Well, you know it's interesting, it really was.
You know something that Godkind of brought to my heart
based on a number of differentthings that were going on in my
life.
And just a little interestingfun fact you know, roe v Wade
(13:16):
was overturned at 1010 am.
So oh, I can't make it up Justto put a fine point on it Right,
that I just thought that'spretty amazing that it was
overturned at 1010.
It could have been overturnedat many different times, but you
know.
So I really kind of thoughtabout that in the context of,
you know, this notion ofabundant life.
God's sort of putting a finepoint on this notion of not just
being for life but for abundantlife.
And, as you said, you know itcomes from.
(13:36):
You know that passage whereJesus, you know, basically says
his why statement, why he came.
You know, this is why he came,that we might have life and then
have that life abundantly.
And he's talking about twotypes of life.
He's talking about physicallife, where the Greek word bios,
b-i-o-s the same kind ofnarrative that gives us the word
biology, like physical life.
(13:56):
But he's also talking about Zoe, which is a unique type of
spiritual life that only comesfrom a relationship with God.
So the way I've kind of thoughtabout it is that he's basically
saying, in that moment I cameto link your bias to my Zoe that
you might be heartbeats thatare heaven bound.
And so when I started to kind ofthink about the life issue
(14:17):
through that lens as a Christian, I said, well, you know, jesus
isn't saying that he's pro-life,he's saying he's pro-abundant
life, because that's what he'ssaying.
He's like you might have lifeabundantly.
So I'm pro-abundant life, notjust pro-life.
In other words, he's solvingfor Bias and Zoe.
And that's what you see, youknow, in the interactions that
Christ had with folks.
He would meet them at theirpoint of bias, gave her physical
(14:45):
healing right, but he stopped.
Why did he stop?
Didn't have to.
She got her bias, she washealed, she wouldn't bleed no
more.
Why'd he stop?
Because he wanted to restoreher fully, in other words, to
link her bias to his zoe right,to restore her physically,
emotionally, spiritually andsocially.
The fullness of restorationsocially, the fullness of
restoration, that's the fullnessof life and that's abundant
(15:08):
life in that context.
So what I realized was I said,well, wait a minute, if Jesus
wasn't just pro-life, he waspro-abundant life, then if I'm a
follower of Christ, then my whystatement for how I engage in
this issue should be linked tohis why statement, and his why
statement was abundant life.
And the other thing which iskind of clear you can be an
atheist and be pro-life becauseyou're solving for Bias Not a
(15:31):
bad thing, it's a great thingbut you can't be an atheist and
be pro-abundant life becauseyou're not solving for
heartbeats that are heaven bound.
So my view was well then, as westart to think about Care Net
as a ministry, we're not apro-life organization, we're a
pro-abundant life organization.
And then we started workingdown.
So how do we bring heaven toearth, so to speak?
(15:53):
In terms of that, how do we getthat abundant life on earth?
What are the institutions thatGod gives us in order for
abundant life to happen inhumanity?
Chris Grainger (16:07):
And that's what leads to the pro-abundant life
perspective which I lay out inthe book Right, love it, love it
.
Guys, we're going to take ourfirst break.
We'll come back and keepdigging in.
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See, I love to, as youmentioned, the bios and the Zoe.
So you have the greatcommandment, the great
commission.
You have some wonderfulvisualizations in the book, by
(17:34):
the way, I think whoever did theillustrations, they're
incredible.
They really help because youhave the discipleship component
around the family component, andmaybe just break down how you
came up with that model, how Godrevealed it to you and what
does that practically look likefor the believer out there who
(17:54):
wants to take their pro-lifeposition and actually take it to
the next level.
That's really what I see here.
Roland Warren (18:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the first.
So one of the graphics I havein there, because I was thinking
about a graphic to illustratethis, and I have this graphic
that's sort of a house with, youknow, with a roof and two
pillars that hold up the roofright, and so the roof is Pro
Abundant Life John 10.10.
So how do you support thatperspective?
And there are two pillars thathold up that perspective.
(18:23):
The first pillar is God'sdesign for family, as that first
pillar, and you know, reallyGod sort of led me to see the
birth of Christ, you know, inthe lens of the life issue,
because, you know, mary wasfacing an unplanned pregnancy
from a human perspective, shehad hopes for her life, dreams
for her life that didn't includea child at that time and in
(18:45):
that way.
And so, you know, when I thinkabout that, I think about my
wife, the way that my wife gotpregnant, obviously very
different from Mary, but thepractical consequences after she
got pregnant were very similar.
Mary's like, I'm sure, what?
How am I going to tell myfather and my mother and my
community?
How am I going to take care ofthis child?
What's Joseph going to say?
I mean all this uncertaintyswirling around in her head and
(19:06):
you know what does she do inthat moment.
She doesn't focus on theuncertainty of what she doesn't
know, she focuses on thecertainty of what she does, that
there's a life growing insideof her, and it's not a life
worth sacrificing, but a lifeworth sacrificing for.
And she says what?
Let it be on to me, as you havesaid.
So, when I think about theministry work that CareDead's
involved in in our network of1,200 plus pregnancy centers,
and the work we do with ournational hotline for women and
(19:29):
men facing pregnancy decisions,and the work that we do to
connect those folks to churchesfor ongoing support and
discipleship.
Essentially, what we're tryingto do is encourage them to tap
into their inner Mary, toascribe to themselves the virtue
and the character of Mary,right?
So you sit knee to knee withsomebody and that's what you're
praying for and that's whatyou're trying to call out of
them.
(19:49):
That notion, like her, don'tfocus on the uncertainty of what
you don't know, right, focus onthe certainty of what you do,
that this is a life not worthsacrificing, but a life worth
sacrificing for, and say let itbe unto you, as you have said.
So that story in the firstchapter, the first book of the
New Testament of the birth ofChrist, is really illustrative
of really in my view, from aChristian perspective, how we
(20:14):
should be engaging on a lifeissue, because it's the best
example of how God responded toan unplanned pregnancy from a
human perspective.
What did he do?
Well, he went to Mary andcalled her in that role, but he
didn't stop there.
Like folks say, okay, I got it.
Got it, Ronald, we're supposedto help the proverbial Marys and
save the proverbial Jesus.
It's great, let me close myBible, let's get at it.
But what did God do to make surethat Mary's unplanned pregnancy
(20:35):
wasn't a crisis pregnancy?
Send an angel to Joseph andJoseph had a plan he was going
to put her away quietly.
He was going to divorce herquietly right, because that's
how you essentially didabortions back then, because you
couldn't put the baby away.
So you put the woman and thebaby away, and the angel comes
to Joseph and says listen, Iknow that's your plan, but I got
a new plan.
And what does he call Joseph todo?
First thing, he tells him donot be afraid to take Mary as
(20:56):
your wife.
In other words, he calls him tobe a husband to her and a
father to the child growinginside of her.
And so when I looked at thatnativity narrative, as I call it
, through the lens of looked atthe life issue through the lens
rather of the nativity narrative, I realized that there's a big
miss in terms of how we've beenapproaching the life issue for
50 years.
Yeah, we've been trying to helpthe Pravarial Marys and save
(21:19):
the Pravarial Jesuses, but wehave not been trying to engage
the perennial Joseph's.
We have not had that framework.
We've framed the issue as abouta woman and a baby, which is a
counter to the pro-choice side,which is about a woman and a
question mark.
And so we actually created sortof this yin-yang kind of thing,
where they're for the women,we're for the women, we're both
for the women and we're arguingover the baby's a question mark
(21:42):
or not.
And I need to reject that entireparadigm because what you see
in the first chapter, the firstbook of the New Testament, is
that God created a family.
So it's not just about thesanctity of life, it's about the
sanctity of marriage and familyas God designed, right.
And so that's what you see.
So it seems to me that ifyou're a pro abundant life right
(22:04):
that you would focus on notjust saving the baby and helping
the woman, but reaching the manand, to the best of your
ability, trying to help thembuild a marriage, a family.
And I look at my own life.
Well, you know that's exactlywhat happened.
I mean, you know our firstpregnancy was unplanned.
You know our second pregnancyshe tricked me no, I'm just
(22:24):
kidding.
But our second pregnancy wenever faced another unplanned
pregnancy.
Why we created a family, welived out that perspective.
And what happens when a womanhas a guy who says I'll be a
husband to you and a father tothe child growing inside of you,
guess what she's more likely togive the child?
What Life Bias 87% of the womenthat have abortions are
unmarried.
Life bias 87% of the women thathave abortions are unmarried.
(22:47):
So if you delink the marriageissue, the sanctity of marriage
and family issue, from thesanctity of life, you end up
getting neither, and that's whatwe have ended up doing.
And so that first pillar thatholds up a pro abundant life
perspective is God's design forfamily and really your goal
should be, you know, trying todo that.
And I'll just make one one more,just final, kind of put a finer
point on that.
(23:08):
If you talk to the typical, youknow, pro-life, christian and
you and if I said, you listen awoman comes to you and she's
pregnant and you've got thisability to, to, to change
everything in anything in herlife except the fact that she's
pregnant.
You can change anything exceptthe fact that she's pregnant.
You can change anything exceptthe fact that she's pregnant.
What would you want to havehappen?
So I want her to have a baby.
(23:29):
Great, that's it.
You want to be a single mom?
No, no, I want the father to beinvolved.
Okay, what do you want?
Be a baby daddy, bring pampersevery now and then.
I mean, what do you want?
No-transcript work for thehigher thing, don't settle for
(24:13):
the lower thing.
So a pro-abundant lifeperspective is that higher thing
.
It's not just about savingbabies, as God honoring as that
is.
It's not just about raisingchildren, as God honoring as
that is.
It's not just about raisingchildren, as God honoring as
that is.
It's not just about helpingwomen, as God honoring as that
is.
It's about building a family, afather and mother uniting in
marriage, loving each other,loving their child, to be
(24:33):
disciples who make disciples,who live and love like Jesus,
you don't get that from apro-life perspective.
You get that from apro-abundant life perspective,
because you can't be a proabundant life with actually
trying to focus on building afamily consistent with God's
design for family.
Chris Grainger (24:50):
What I love about it is you touch on the
component, like you said, that'smissing from all the so, so
much the pro life narrative, thefather.
It's just a very simple pieceand that's that's a pivotal role
in and the pro-abundant lifethat you're, that you're talking
about here, because I and I getso many.
You know it's funny when youtalk I'm sure you hear people
(25:11):
talk about, you know, surprisepregnancy.
Well, I'm gonna tell you whatthere may be surprise parents,
but there are zero surprisebabies.
I mean, just, it don't workthat way.
I mean I just feel like youknow, god has a design, he has a
plan and it's going to come out.
So I just I applaud you forleaning into that, the family
component of it, and bringing inthe men, because we have to be
(25:31):
fostering men, because there'snot much out there, roland, I
don't know from your standpointso far as equipping and
encouraging and helping men.
You know, lean into what we'vebeen called to do.
That's really what I try to dowith the lion, and there are
other organizations too, but thechurch, I feel like as well.
We have to be talking aboutthis more more openly, about our
(25:52):
given duty to provide, protect,preside over our families and
be that that the leader of ourspiritual leader of our homes.
Roland Warren (25:58):
Well, it is, and it's so important and really
it's been the enemy's plan, youknow, to get get every man to
kind of make like Adam, you know, because, look, look, the first
abortion actually happened inthe Garden of Eden.
The abortion is a physical actthat is a reflection of a
reality that you have in termsof your relationship with God.
(26:18):
It's essentially saying I knowwhat's better for my life than
God does.
That's basically what anabortion is.
It's the same thing.
So she says what, my fruit, mychoice, my fruit, my choice.
And then Adam says, well, herbody, her choice, right.
And then he partakes Well, theabortionist is exactly the same
and the evil one, just like inthe garden, wants the man to
(26:39):
just stand there and not engage.
And when that happens, guesswhat you get?
What you get.
Look, when we looked at thedata on, you know, influence
around abortion, we did a studysome time ago and we a national
survey with Lifeway and wesurveyed men who had
participated in abortion and weasked them you know sort of kind
(27:00):
of, you know what role did youplay, if you will?
We asked you know who did shetalk?
You know what role did you play, if you will.
We asked you who did she talkto?
And we gave them a list ofdifferent people and number one
was the guy.
Then we asked him who do youthink was the most influential
in her decision to abort?
And the guy says I was Did thesame survey with women.
And we said who did you talk to?
She says number one was the guy.
(27:24):
And then we asked her who wasthe most influential in your
decision to abort?
Guess what?
It was the guy.
So abortion the guy's involvedand he's the most influential.
And what we've been doing in alot of ways is we've been
treating guys in the pro-lifemovement the same way that the
pro-choice people do.
The pro-choice people want herbody, her choice, in other words
(27:46):
, to isolate her, separate heraway from the guy and when that
happens she's more likely tohave the abortion right.
And we're doing sort of thesame thing before a different
reason.
There's sort of thisperspective well, the guy's just
going to try to help her havean abortion, so we need to
protect her from him.
But the reality is that he'salso the key to her making the
(28:07):
life decision.
That's why 87 percent of thewomen that have abortions are
unmarried, and particularly inthe context of the sanctity of
marriage and family.
So, really, that's the reasonwhy, you know, when I think
about this, it's like why youknow this, calling this
(28:29):
pro-abundant life as opposed topro-life is so important.
You know, in a lot of ways,because it's a different thing.
It's a different thing and theother thing, reason why you know
, frankly, just from a practicalreality of it, you know, I ask
people all the time, you know,they say they pro-life.
I say, well, what do you meanby that?
Because the term has actuallylost, it's actually lost its
(28:52):
concrete meaning.
And here's what I mean by that.
I say, okay, you're pro-life.
Yes, and why?
Okay, because I believe in amodel day, right.
I believe that thecircumstances of a child's
conception and birth should notdetermine its humanity and worth
, right?
So whether you're conceived inlove or lust, or planned or
unplanned, or you have a fetalabnormality, it doesn't matter.
Your humanity is intact becauseit's intrinsically tied to God.
(29:16):
You're one of God's imagebearers and worthy of protection
, got it?
What about you?
Well, I'm pro-life too.
Okay, but I'm for a 15 week ban, okay.
Well, how many abortionshappened before 15 weeks?
96%, according to CDC.
Okay, so you're okay with 96%of abortions and you're pro-life
(29:38):
, yes, okay.
What about you?
Well, I'm pro-life too.
I'm for a 20 week ban becausewe're talking about pain capable
or late-term abortions orwhatever.
I'm against late-term abortions, but early-term I'm fine.
Okay, how many abortions happenbefore 20 weeks?
99%, ah, see, so you're okaywith 99% of abortions?
Yes, but I'm pro-life.
You look at the pro-life plankof the Republican platform.
The only abortions that it'sagainst are late term abortions,
(30:02):
which are abortions after 20weeks, which is about 1 percent
of abortions.
So what I mean?
We've taken a term that's kindof supposed to be an absolute
Right and now it's on a spectrum, it's flexible, it's really
meaningless in many ways becauseit doesn't have a very specific
(30:22):
meaning.
In many ways, because itdoesn't have a very specific
meaning, we've allowed it to becontaminated because we pulled
away from the conviction of whatit actually means.
I think you should define whatit means to be quote pro-life
from the perspective of the babyin the womb.
So if you're the baby in thewomb, we say, okay, now here's
these multiple perspectives here.
Which one are you for?
Well, this one over here.
(30:43):
Can I end up dead?
Yeah, sure, a lot of times,maybe even the majority of the
time.
Well, what about thispro-abundant life thing you've
been talking about?
Yeah, no, that's based on ImagoDei, that the circumstances of
your conception and birth do notchange your humanity and worth.
So, no matter how, yep, I'drather have those guys leading,
(31:03):
not that.
And all that has to do with thefact that we gave the issue to
the political process.
We gave the life issue.
We decided that we were goingto win this issue with political
power and I understand there'sa role for political power, but
you have to understand thedynamic of politics and the way
politics works.
(31:23):
Power, but you have tounderstand the dynamic of
politics and the way politicsworks.
When you have a politicalframework, you essentially have
two people with a set ofconvictions so I'm an
environmentalist and you're abig lumber or something right
and we are in this politicaldebate about what to do with
this piece of land and we get ina room and then we come up with
a compromise.
So we compromise aspects of ourconvictions in order to reach a
(31:45):
compromise.
So the political process, byits very nature, is two people
coming with a conviction andthen letting go of some aspect
of their conviction in order toreach a compromise.
That's fine with something likeland or some other things that
are splittable land or someother things that are splittable
but when you have a baby, youcan't split it.
(32:06):
It's an absolute right.
You can't split it.
And one of the illustrations Igive to people all the time to
kind of focus in this way, isremember in 1 Kings, when
Solomon was presented with onebaby and two women, and both of
those women were like well, thisis my baby and he's trying to
figure out whose baby is it.
(32:26):
So he first starts with apolitical solution Bring me my
sword, I'll just cut the thingand you'll get your half.
And you'll get your half.
That's the politics of it.
Everybody gets what they.
And the mother of the child?
Oh, no, no.
And the mother of the child?
Oh no, no, no, no, no.
She can have the child, she canhave the child.
Why?
Because, see, she was focusedon righteousness and justice and
(32:50):
mercy for the vulnerable.
Chris Grainger (32:52):
Yeah.
Roland Warren (32:54):
Right, yep.
And so she realized no, no,because you can't split the baby
and get righteousness andjustice and mercy, right.
So Solomon, in his role firstas a king, but he had wisdom, he
also had other roles, as kindof a priest and a prophet.
It was a spiritual thing.
In other words, the pro-lifeperspective will split the baby,
so to speak, because we'renegotiating a political
(33:15):
narrative, but the pro-abundantlife perspective was no, no,
let's solve for justice andmercy and righteousness, right.
Which means that thatperspective has to lead.
On an issue that is a moralissue, that perspective has to
lead.
So it's essentially exchangingthe podium for the pulpit in
(33:35):
terms of who leads on this issue.
We've been allowing the podiumto lead on this issue.
No, the pulpit needs to lead onthis issue, because the pulpit
understands that you can't splitthe baby.
The podium says, well, we kindof can split the baby.
You see what I'm saying.
So that's again when you thinkthrough the difference between
being pro-life and pro-abundantlife.
This is what I'm talking aboutand again, it's because that's
(33:58):
the very nature of the politicalprocess, is what it does, it's
part of the very nature of it100%, 100%.
Chris Grainger (34:06):
Guys, we're going to take a quick break.
We'll be coming right back.
We're making a big change thatI think you're really going to
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I spent a lot of time thinkingabout our spiritual kickoffs and
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exclusive platform, and here'sthe best part we decided to give
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Every day, we go live to readthe word, to encourage each
other and find simple andpowerful ways to apply God's
(34:48):
truth to our lives.
You'll even have the chance toengage with me directly, and if
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So if you're ready to getstarted, head over to the lion
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Let's grow together, rollingthe second pillar of your pro,
abundant, lifeundant life modelI absolutely love.
I feel like it's such a missingcomponent in many areas, even
(35:32):
from Christian teaching.
But discipleship I'm verycurious.
Can you just unpack what youmean by that for the
pro-abundant life model?
Roland Warren (35:43):
Yeah, it's really the.
So the second pillar is thatGod's called to discipleship.
So it's basically looking atthe life issue through the lens
of discipleship.
In other words, someone who'sfacing an unplanned pregnancy
you look at that issue through.
This person needs to become adisciple of Jesus Christ.
So your first thought when yousee a woman facing an unplanned
pregnancy is not like where do Ineed, who do I need to vote for
(36:09):
so that she can't have anabortion, or what kind of
material support she needs Bothissues that are important, but
that's not my primary thing as aChristian.
Your first thought should be isshe a disciple of Jesus Christ?
The child growing inside of herneeds to be a disciple of Jesus
Christ.
The guy who got her pregnantneeds to be a disciple of Jesus
Christ, which means the churchleads on that.
In other words, you start toview the life issue the way we
view so many other good worksthat Christians do Water for the
(36:31):
thirsty, food for the hungry,clothes for the naked, homes for
the homeless.
Right, there's all kinds ofsocial services organizations
that engage in these things, butChristians a lot of times say,
well, yeah, I could do that.
I could give to UNICEF or CAREor something you know, but I'm
going to give to World Vision orI'm going to give to, you know,
compassion or you know, orWorld Relief, like an
(36:51):
organization that's linking Biasto Zoe right.
In other words, that's not justsolving for Bias but also
solving for Zoe.
And what's happened?
Again, in large measure becauseof the political process.
We think about water for thethirsty, food for the hungry,
clothes for the naked, all thesethings through the lens of
discipleship, like on ramps todiscipleship, but for compassion
(37:11):
for the pregnant, we putoutside of that framework.
So basically, the second pillarof God's call to discipleship
is really seeing this issuethrough the lens of discipleship
.
And when you do that, then it'ssomething that is absolutely
the focus of the church, it'sthe role of the church.
(37:32):
And you asked yourself aquestion could it be that God is
using this unplanned pregnancyin this woman's life that she
might become a disciple of JesusChrist?
Could it be and guess what?
That's not some crazy theology,because God used an unplanned
pregnancy in Mary's life to itin that she would become a
disciple of Jesus Christ, thatyou and I would become disciples
of Jesus Christ.
Our whole faith is built on anunplanned pregnancy from a human
(37:55):
perspective, and God's response, which was to build a family
and to make disciples.
You see what I'm saying.
So that's that second pillar,and when you do that then you
say gosh, then this has to beanchored in the church, because
the church is the seat ofdiscipleship.
Discipleship happens in thechurch.
So that's why our pregnancycenter model and the pregnancy
centers, we do evangelism right,so we introduce the gospel and
(38:18):
what that does is that creates aconvert.
The gospel and what that doesis that creates a convert.
But a discipleship is a longerprocess.
That's why, if you look atagain Matthew 28, 19,.
It says what To go and makedisciples right Baptize them in
the name of the Father, son andthe Holy Spirit and to what
Teach them to obey all that Itaught.
Well, you can't do that in apregnancy center in a
(38:42):
several-month perspective thatyou have there.
That's a long-term process, andso a key part of our ministry
model is really making sure thatpeople move from pregnancy
centers to the church forongoing support and discipleship
.
And so we create a ministrycalled Making Life Disciples,
which is designed to teachpeople in the church to come
(39:02):
alongside someone in the churchor outside the church who may be
facing a pregnancy decision, soyou can go to
makinglifedisciplescom to learnmore about that.
But it really is kind offocused on, like, our small
groups.
So many churches have smallgroups and a lot of times our
small groups are about us lovingus.
What if your small group becameabout us loving them?
What if your small group wastrained so that your local
(39:25):
pregnancy center could call upyour church and you would come
alongside this woman facing apregnancy decision or this
couple facing the pregnancydecision?
Life decisions need life supportand the life support they need
is sitting in pews right inchurches, and so it really is
about mobilizing.
But once you think about itthat way, then you understand
(39:45):
that, see, if you're a proabundant life, you understand.
See, a pro abundant lifeperspective leads you to the
cross.
You get people to the cross.
A pro life perspective oftenleads you to the poles.
Right, she don't need to go tothe polls, she needs the cross.
And then you take theperspective of the cross to the
polls.
We've been taking theperspective of the polls back to
(40:06):
the church and we'vecompromised on the issue.
So that second pillar again isGod's call to discipleship the
call to discipleship and viewingthe life issue primarily
through the lens of adiscipleship.
It's a discipleship issue thathas a political component and a
material support need not theother way around.
Chris Grainger (40:28):
I'm also super curious because there's so many
Christian men in particularlistening to the lion and they
want to be active.
They want to understand whereto put their time, their talent,
their treasure.
To your point, where she'll befunding Care Net.
Maybe explain, you know you'represident, you're CEO of Care
Net.
Explain how that works and whatyou're doing to support that
(40:50):
pro-abundant life movement.
Roland Warren (40:53):
Yeah, yeah, again , we have a very robust ministry
model.
Again, you can come to ourwebsite, care-netorg care-netorg
to learn about what we're doingfrom a ministry perspective.
I mentioned Making LifeDisciples as a core initiative
that you could start in yourchurch.
Also, there are lots of localpregnancy centers that need the
(41:14):
support specifically for men tocome alongside, so to walk
alongside men who are comingthere.
More and more of the pregnancycenters are now offering some
component of men's ministry.
So we want, when that womancomes in facing that pregnancy
decision, we want the guy theretoo, and we need men to come
alongside and walk alongsidethat guy who's facing the
pregnancy decision.
(41:35):
A lot of these guys grew upwithout fathers.
They're terrified of becomingfathers.
Maybe you've been a father fordecades.
Will you mentor this young man?
Same thing in terms of marriage.
A lot of these guys are inrelationships and they've never
even seen what a godly marriagelooks like.
You've been married for decades.
Will you mentor this youngcouple?
She doesn't have a place tolive.
(41:55):
Do you have an extra room?
He needs a job.
You got a business orconnections that can help make
that happen.
Again, these are the lifedecisions that lead to the life
support perspective.
And then also a key thing for ustoo, is the post-abortion piece
.
We have so many people sittingin pews that have made the
abortion decision and they needto be healed and forgiven and
set free.
So we have a ministry on rampwhich you can go to called
(42:20):
abortionhealingorg, which is ourministry on-ramp for
post-abortion.
For women, we've got a robustministry called Forgiven and Set
Free, and for men we have onecalled Reclaiming Fatherhood.
So if you're a guy who'slistening, who had an abortion
in your past and you needhealing and to be set free
Absolutely, we've got a ministryfor that.
(42:42):
And why is that so important?
It's important because there'sso many people who aren't taking
action because they feel thatthey can't.
They're paralyzed by their past, they're so locked up in the
guilt and the shame of the pastdecision.
And the encouragement that's inscripture for us is really, and
particularly for men, in thiscontext.
You know, peter aborted Jesusbecause an abortion is a
(43:04):
rejection of vulnerable life.
That's what he did.
He aborted.
He said I don't know this, dude.
Right, that's what abortion is.
That's what you're saying tothe child.
I don't know this child, youknow, I don't.
I don't know them.
Well, isn't this your baby?
No, I look, I got nothing to dohere, right?
Well, what did Jesus do afterPeter aborted him?
He said, well, I guess thisguy's not fit for service
anymore.
No, he called him and herestored him.
(43:25):
Do you love me?
Do you love me, do you love me?
And then he told him feed mysheep, and that whole
perspective.
He gave him a mission.
In other words, he was calledand then mission.
And then Peter became one ofthe obviously one of the most
effective disciple makers.
For Christ, the for Christ.
The same thing happens on theabortion issue.
If you have a past abortion inyour life, god wants to use that
(43:49):
to help you become an effectivedisciple maker.
He'll take that in your lifeand use it for your good and for
his glory.
So, but you need to be set free, you need to work through.
You know that perspective andthe choice that you made there.
But there's you know again,there's room at the cross for
all of us and he wants to put usinto service.
Chris Grainger (44:04):
Amen, amen.
I am curious too, roland.
I mean, obviously you have somuch expertise here and this is
you're so passionate about itFor the everyday guy that's out
there, maybe speak to him for aminute.
You know we're in a post Roe vWade decision now.
It's very hot so far as you canget people very worked up in
(44:28):
debates over this whole pro-life, pro-choice.
You know what does that mean.
Do you have any practical tipsor encouragement for just the
everyday guy out there that'slistening that you know, if they
want to actually do somethingto support it and without being,
I guess, you know, viewed as aradical or something like that,
(44:51):
I'm just curious, like,practically, how would you
suggest getting started?
Roland Warren (44:55):
Yeah, I think you know I always start with the
why, like why are you doing thisand why are you engaged on this
issue?
Start with the why, like whyare you doing this and why are
you engaged on this issue?
And if you're engaging on thisissue to win a political
argument or just an argument ingeneral, you know that's always
going to be more confrontationalin terms of what happens there.
You know, my encouragement tofolks first is to understand,
(45:16):
like, what is our call asChristians, and then the life
issue is lived out in thecontext of our call.
So the call for any guy as aChristian from Christ is pretty
simple.
What did Christ do?
He lived out the greatcommandment to fulfill the great
commission.
That's what he did.
He just walked around livingout the great commandment to
fulfill the great commission Onthe cross, living out the great
(45:38):
commandment to fulfill the greatcommission.
What's the great commandment?
Well, luke 10, 27 talks aboutwe're called to love God.
Love our neighbor as our, asourself, and right and and
loving God, loving your neighboras yourself.
Well, there's three loves thereLoving God got it Loving your
neighbor and then loving self.
Those three loves like aTrinity that if you disconnect
one of those loves, then youwould take what you take what's
(46:06):
a virtue and you make it into avice.
Right, so I don't love God, butI do love my neighbor, I do
love myself.
That's humanism.
So you can kind of go throughthat.
Well, when you unpack that inthe context of like as a guy for
the life issue, you realizethat that the word that's used
for neighbor means near one inEnglish near one or near fellow,
and we talk about nearness interms of proximity, like I'm
next to you, or relationship,I'm here next to kin.
(46:27):
Well, the baby in the womb isthe woman's near one, right,
it's her nearest near one.
And also for the guy who gother pregnant.
That's why you can't supportabortion as a Christian.
It's a violation of the greatcommandment.
So, as ament, so what are youcalled to do then as a guy?
Practically well, live out thegreat commandment.
That means you need to help aneighbor, love a neighbor.
(46:47):
So what I've found is, ifyou're having conversations and
I really, again, my thing is notlike trying to engage, like the
broader culture first.
First we actually need toengage the church.
The problem with the abortionissue is not the broader culture
, the problem with the abortionissue is the church, that we
have too many people in thechurch that are not looking at
the abortion issue through theGreat Commandment and the Great
(47:09):
Commission.
So as you engage, start havingconversations with people, say,
listen, I am looking for ways tolive out the Great Commandment
to fulfill the Great Commission.
That's what I'm looking for andI'm looking for service
opportunities to basically dothat.
So when you volunteer at apregnancy center to walk
alongside a guy facing apregnancy decision, practical
(47:31):
right, you're living out thegreat commandment to fulfill the
great commission, right To helphim live out the great
commandment to love the neighborin the girl and the woman's
womb and also the woman herselfbecause she is his neighbor.
And also abortion is aviolation of the Great
Commission.
Why?
Because you're called to makedisciples of who your neighbors
(47:52):
and your first neighborhood isyour children.
So abortion is a violation ofthe Great Commandment and the
Great Commission.
So when you're practicallylooking at it you say, well gosh
, I'm getting involved in thisissue, not because of some
political narrative, necessarily, but I'm getting involved in
this issue because as aChristian, I'm called to live
out the Great Commandment tofulfill the Great Commission and
I'm looking for opportunitiesto do that so you support single
(48:14):
moms who are facing pregnancydecisions and maybe need some
support in some way, shape orform, or someone who's facing,
you know, this type of decisionabortion decision or walk
alongside a guy who's facingthat kind of decision with your
time, your talent and yourtreasure, that kind of thing.
And there's plenty ofopportunities to do that.
And one of the major major needswe have again is that pregnancy
(48:35):
centers and life affirmingministries for men to step in,
not just with you know, kind offixing stuff and that kind of
thing, but also to get involvedin the ministry of coming
alongside a guy who's facing apregnancy decision and saying,
listen, I want to walk alongsideyou in this, and particularly
if you've been in that journeywhere you've either faced an
unplanned pregnancy whether itwas abortion or not, it doesn't
(48:57):
really matter you have a uniqueperspective that that guy needs
to hear.
And as we get more and more menstepping into that role, what
you'll start to see is theabortion, the abortion
perspective change in thebroader square.
You have more men that arestepping into the issue and
saying I will support this woman, hopefully stepping up as
husbands and fathers in thatrole, and then what you start to
(49:19):
see from that is a reduction ofabortion, because men are
stepping in with their time,their talent and treasure to
come alongside other men who arefacing a pregnancy decision
(49:45):
no-transcript.
Chris Grainger (49:51):
What do you enjoy doing?
Roland Warren (49:52):
Any hobbies that you have well, I got grandkids,
so those are my hobbies.
I don't play golf or any ofthat kind of stuff.
I lift weights and exercise totry to make sure I can be around
and be able to move around formy grandkids.
That's what I love to do.
It's just such a blessing.
I really didn't have mygrandparents very much involved
(50:13):
in my life, so it brings megreat joy to be involved in my
grandkids' life.
Chris Grainger (50:18):
So are they local in the area.
Roland Warren (50:20):
Yeah, four of them are local.
Well, three in one coming inJuly local.
The other one's in LA, so wetry to get out there as much.
So I've got four and hopefullyfive, by God's grace coming in
July.
Chris Grainger (50:32):
Well, I mean, as a July baby, I will tell you
they are the best.
So we pray for a healthydelivery there in July.
That's awesome, that's awesome.
How about favorite food, roland?
What's your, what's your go-to?
Roland Warren (50:44):
Gosh, it's stuff I shouldn't eat.
Probably chocolate chip cookies.
Love those, love me, I can hurtmyself with some chocolate chip
cookies.
There you go.
Chris Grainger (50:53):
Sweet too, huh.
Roland Warren (50:55):
Yeah.
Chris Grainger (50:56):
How about all time favorite movie?
What do you enjoy?
Oh gosh.
Roland Warren (51:05):
All time favorite movie.
What do you enjoy?
Oh gosh, um, all-time favoritemovie.
Oh, I don't know.
Oh, brother, we're out there.
It's probably up there on mylist, okay, nacho nacho libre.
We like the silly ones, thesilly ones.
There you go.
Yes, and napoleon dynamite,that one's, that's a good one.
Those lines are used often inmy family.
Chris Grainger (51:23):
I hear you.
I hear you.
I can honestly say those threemovies had never been brought up
when I asked that question.
Roland Warren (51:30):
So you started.
Yeah, I was told you're Gonewith the Wind or some erudite
movie.
No, not around here.
We love to laugh, so love it,Love it.
Chris Grainger (51:39):
Well, if you let's speak about laughing if
you could have a super power,which one would you pick and how
would you use it?
You know, I've got all thesesuper powers out there.
Roland Warren (51:50):
Oh geez, it's almost like the Solomon question
.
Um, I think I think it'd becool to fly Right.
That would be that.
Yeah, that'd be cool.
Yeah, it's places very quickly,and yeah, I think that'd be
that'd be super cool WithMaryland.
Chris Grainger (52:03):
I'm sure there's a lot of traffic, so that would
probably come in pretty handyfor you.
Roland Warren (52:06):
Yes, yes, I got a terrible commute, so, yes,
flying would be very helpful,nice.
Chris Grainger (52:12):
You look back over the last six or 12 months,
Roland, what did you spend toomuch time doing?
We always ask this to kind ofgive the guys some reflective
time.
Roland Warren (52:22):
Oh, let's see Too much time doing Probably
worrying.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wouldsay that's probably it.
Chris Grainger (52:32):
Yeah, easy to get caught in that trap.
Easy for sure.
Well, when you think about God,what's your favorite thing
about him?
Roland Warren (52:47):
I think I'd say probably that he's, that he's
personal, you know, it's theEmmanuel thing, god with us.
You know that piece.
I think that when you reallylean into that, you know it
really helps you not view Godabstractly, you know, and, and
you can view him concretely, youknow.
So, you know, when I think thatway, when I'm praying, I'm
thinking, well, okay, like thisis a real person, you know, that
(53:10):
cares about me and that lovesme, and you know, then it, then
it, it.
It stops you and preventsprayer for being like rote and
formulaic.
You know, and that can happensometimes.
You know, I get in that mode.
I got my prayer times, let meget that and check that off the
list.
But you know, you know, mindfulof times, like no, no, this is
(53:31):
a real relationship with a realGod who's with you and wants to
be with you and bring that peace.
And, yeah, so that that to me,when I'm reminded of that, you
know that he'll never leave me,that he'll never forsake me,
that his peace is not just withme but he is with me as well,
(53:52):
not just the peace of God, butthe God of peace is with me.
I think that personalconnection I think is so
important to be mindful of andeasy to lose that perspective.
And when that happens and itbecomes just religion, you know
kind of formulaic framework.
Chris Grainger (54:08):
Yes, sir, now let's flip it 180.
What's your least favoritething about the evil one?
Roland Warren (54:19):
Well, it's just the whole notion of I mean, it
goes back to John 10, 10, whatkill, kill, steal, kill and
destroy.
You know, and you just see thatand you see the consequences of
that.
I see it in my own life, I seeit in our communities.
We see it in terms of theinjustice that happens
particularly to the, you know,to the vulnerable, you know, um
it just it's just heartbreaking.
(54:39):
You know that, that that's hisintent, but it is.
Chris Grainger (54:45):
Yeah.
So, yeah, 100 percent.
Last question for you, rolandwhat do you hope the guys
listening remember the most fromour conversation today?
Roland Warren (54:56):
Well, I'm kind of like a broken record.
I mean, basically, you knowjust that your mind be
transformed from a pro-lifeperspective to a pro-abundant
life perspective, and when moreand more people string that
together.
The reason I'm so encouragedthere is that when you start to
think about that way then, yeah,you want to fight to change the
laws and defund PlannedParenthood, all these different
(55:18):
things.
Yeah, you want to do that.
But what?
You realize that even if thosethings don't happen, that you
can make abortion unthinkable,even if it's legal.
People used to ask, you know,often, when Roe was on the books
, when's Roe going to beoverturned?
And I tell them all the time Isay Roe is overturned.
Every day there are women,every single day, that are
(55:39):
rejecting abortion.
When she rejects abortion, sheoverturned Roe, my wife
overturned Roe.
So even though it was perfectlylegal, it was unthinkable.
So you realize that, gosh, ifyou make it unthinkable, then it
takes the power of it beinglegal or not legal.
And then, frankly, when itbecomes unthinkable enough, then
guess what actually ends uphappening?
It becomes illegal.
But if you make it illegal andit's not unthinkable, then you
(56:01):
get what we kind of have now,right.
So we've got a tremendous poweras Christians, to sit knee to
knee with folks and, by thetransforming power of the gospel
of Jesus Christ and the lovethat we're called to give to
people, to make it unthinkablein the lives of folks.
And that's a power that noparty can take from us, no one
(56:25):
can take from us.
We have the ability totransform hearts and then that
transforms minds, and when thathappens, then the legislative
stuff takes care of itself.
So to me, that whole notionlike really changing your
perspective, being pro-abundantlife, anchoring in John 10, 10,
jesus's wise statement, that'sthe way forward and oh, by the
(56:47):
way, it's always been the wayforward.
Chris Grainger (56:49):
We just lost our way.
So Amen, amen.
Well, roland, where do you wantto send the listeners to
connect with you?
The wonderful stuff at Care Netto get a copy of the book?
Just want to give you a chanceto share your links here.
Roland Warren (56:59):
Yeah, so you can go.
The book is on Amazon.
Books are sold, so go on Amazon.
You can search for that.
I've got several other booksthat I've also written.
Along with the Alternative toAbortion, I wrote one called
Raising Sons of Promise, a guidefor single mothers of boys,
which kind of talks aboutspecifically how do you raise
boys in a way that they don'tbecome baby daddies but become
(57:21):
husbands and fathers, even ifthey're growing up in a single
mother environment.
And I've got Bad Dads of theBible Eight Mistakes that Every
Good Dad Can Avoid.
So I wrote that one some yearsago as well, when I was with
National Fatherhood Initiative.
So those books are also onAmazon as well.
If you want to come to thewebsite, it's rolandcwarrencom,
(57:44):
but lots of different ways toget to us.
Chris Grainger (57:47):
Right?
Well, it's been an absolutehonor to have you here.
We'll have those links in theshow notes.
Guys, go get a copy of the book.
Anything else you'd like toshare today, sir?
Roland Warren (57:54):
No, thanks so much for your time.
I appreciate it.
And just blessings to all yourlisteners.
Yes, blessings to all yourlisteners.
Chris Grainger (58:00):
Yes, sir, god bless.
You have a great day.
Roland Warren (58:02):
All right, take care.
Chris Grainger (58:12):
Bye.
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(58:55):
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What are you doing toproactively be on the offense as
(59:18):
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(01:00:01):
Come back on Friday.
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Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast
serving Christian men who arehungry to be the leaders God
intends you to be.
I'm your host, chris Granger.
Let's jump in.
All right, guys, meat episodetime.
Let's get into it, okay.
So the scripture of the week isJames 1, chapter 27, verse okay
2-7.
It says religion that God, ourFather, accepts as pure and
(00:25):
thoughtless is this to lookafter orphans and widows in
their distress and to keeponeself from being polluted by
the world.
So, guys, go back and listen tothe spiritual kickoff episode.
We took some time to unpackthat at length.
Okay.
Again, if you enjoy thespiritual kickoff episode each
week, monday through Friday, wedo it within the line within us
(00:49):
and it's completely free.
So go to the line within uswithin dot U S.
Get started today, okay.
So this episode is going to beanother great one.
Fellas, looking forward toletting you hear this
conversation with Roland Warren.
So he's the president and theCEO of Care Net and that's one
of the largest in the nationactually networks of evangelical
(01:12):
pregnancy centers.
Okay, so he came from.
He went to Princeton University, wharton School of Business
obviously extremely brilliant,brilliant man.
He spent over two decades inthe corporate sector, worked
with tons of major companies,but he's transitioned and now
(01:32):
he's writing these books.
He's serving in this area andreally focusing on the pro-life
actually let me correct myselfthe pro-abundant life movement
and that's what I enjoyed somuch about this Married kids,
grandkids, great guy out ofMaryland, I think you're going
(01:55):
to really enjoy thisconversation with Roland Ward.
Welcome to the Lion Within Us.
How are you doing today, sir?
Roland Warren (02:00):
I'm well, I'm well.
Thanks for having me on theshow.
Chris Grainger (02:04):
I appreciate it.
You must be an early riser likeme, because most guests don't
want to record at 8.30 in themorning.
So are you an early?
Are you a go-getter?
Roland Warren (02:12):
Yeah, I'm up by five, so this is almost.
It's almost lunchtime for mealready.
Chris Grainger (02:16):
That's right, that's right.
Half the day's gone by right,that's right, that's right.
Well, before we dive in becausethis is going to be a really
fun one for sure, maybe sharesomething fun about you, roland,
that not many people know about.
I always just like to start ina light way.
Roland Warren (02:31):
Geez, I don't know if there's that much that's
fun about me, I want to.
I mean, maybe oddities for somefolks is that I do have this
thing for squirrels.
So if you come to my officeit's kind of like a kind of of a
nut house a little bit, withall the different pictures of
squirrels and various ways, andpeople give me different
cartoons and various otherthings.
(02:52):
I've been putting those aroundfor a number of years, so so I
don't know if people would knowthat or not, but I imagine most
people probably don't.
Chris Grainger (03:01):
So is the squirrel thing from like, from
your childhood, like.
When did you start likingsquirrels?
Roland Warren (03:07):
I used to be in sales and I remember one of the
managers once said that even ablind squirrel gets a nut
sometimes.
In other words, that was justkind of a way to get the sales
folks out of the office and intothe streets.
Ain't nobody in here buyingstuff, so you need to be out
there.
So my wife bought me, uh, shefound this, this stuffed
(03:29):
squirrel, and uh, she gave it tome and I, I put a you know tape
across the eyes as my remindernot be at my desk but to be to
be out, and so that kind ofstarted it and then, and then
the collection uh, went fromthere.
So I'm not kind of one of thesecrazy people that wears like
squirrel underwear and stufflike that.
Right, right, nothing on thepersonal body, no squirrel watch
(03:49):
or anything like that.
But the external stuff is fine.
Chris Grainger (03:53):
Well, I may be able to change you though.
So now you're in Maryland, soyou're not too far.
So you just got to come down toRichmond because their baseball
team is the Flying Squirrels.
You'd be in love right therethere.
Their baseball team is a flyingsquirrels.
Roland Warren (04:03):
You'd fall, You'd be in love right there.
You know, there you go, thereyou go.
You have to get me a shirt orsomething, that's right.
That's right, kind of fun.
Chris Grainger (04:10):
There you go, there you go.
Well, I'm excited to talk withyou, roland for sure.
Thank you so much for the copyof your book the Alternate to
Abortion.
While we must be pro abundant,I really just love that Anything
abundant life.
John 10, 10, I'm all in.
So when I saw it I'm like, yeah, we have to have him.
But your story started withreally a personal testimony in
(04:31):
the book.
So maybe just get our readersup to speed a little bit about
your background and what led youto going down this path and
tackling this topic that is so,so, vitally important for
Christians.
Roland Warren (04:44):
Yeah, no, it really does.
It kind of goes back to when Iwas a junior in college, I was
undergraduate at Princeton and Igot my girlfriend, who was a
sophomore, pregnant Now I guessto tell people all the time kind
of start off with the punchlinemy wife of 43 years.
But we got pregnant.
We were facing unplannedpregnancy.
(05:04):
We're Christians on campusdoing stuff that Christians
shouldn't be doing, obviously,and we felt the consequences of
it and the result of that sin.
So, you know, she went toStudent Health Services to get a
pregnancy test and the nursedelivers the test, gives her the
news, says you know you're,you're pregnant and, without
taking an extra gulp of air,really just says now, of course
(05:24):
you're going to have an abortion.
And you know, my wife says no,I don't want to have an abortion
, I want to get married, I wantto have my baby.
And the nurse is like how areyou going to graduate from
Princeton with a baby?
Doesn't seem like it makes alot of sense, doesn't seem like
it's what she wants to do.
And she says I want to become adoctor.
The nurse is like gosh, how areyou going to become a doctor
(05:48):
with a baby?
Graduate with a baby Doesn'tseem like a wise choice.
And you know, I kind of thinkshe probably came back to the
dorm room and kind of gave methe news on that and you know, I
kind of said to her what youknow, what we had agreed upon.
Agreed upon, we're just goingto move forward with the plan.
And we did.
(06:08):
And we got married and had ourfirst son at Princeton, and
actually he was born rightbefore, not too long before I
graduated, and so I have thisgreat picture of me carrying him
with my graduation hat andstuff like that.
And she went on to graduatefrom Princeton not with one baby
but with two.
You know it's Ivy League, soyou've got to overachieve.
(06:29):
So why try to graduate with onebaby?
You can do it with two.
So anyway, so we did that.
So she carried our younger son,justin, in the graduation that
picture is actually in the book,yes and went on to become a
doctor.
It's been practicing medicineclose to 30 years now.
So you know, as I saw firsthand,you know that you know being
(06:50):
faced with that decision.
I understand the temptationthat it is to kind of put the
baby away if you will, and youknow when you feel like your
hopes and your dreams and youraspirations are at risk and how
there's the temptation to dothat thing and we didn't.
And so we've seen that.
And you know the son that wewere supposed to abort.
You know me, you know thisgreat guy and went to Harvard.
(07:12):
He's a smart, smart kid, andyou know.
So we really saw firsthand thatyou know how God works, you know
through these situations, andso part of my passion around
this is really to help folks,you know, see that perspective.
There's this great picture ofmy wife holding our
granddaughter, who was thedaughter of the son we were
(07:32):
supposed to abort, and I lovethat picture because you know
the notion behind abortion isthat nothing good will come to
this from this.
You know nothing good will come.
So you know she's sitting thereas a 19 year old and the nurse
is saying nothing good will comefrom this.
This is not, you know, not50-50.
This is like a net negative foryour life.
And you know I see my wifeholding our granddaughter and
(07:54):
the look on her face and all ofthat.
And the thing was, you know,when my wife was 19, she
couldn't see that picture, shedidn't see that future.
She didn't see that, but Goddid, and that's why it's
important to trust God.
You know, children are a giftfrom the Lord and they're a gift
that he gives us and he wantsus to nurture and bless and
raise up in the fear andadmonition of Him.
And so you know, we see that,and we saw the results of that
(08:16):
and that's, you know, a lot ofways, that's the abundance that
comes from when we sin, that God, you know, that, can take those
things that we do and use them,you know, for our good and for
his glory, and I certainly seethat in terms of what happened
with our story.
Chris Grainger (08:31):
I'm curious of the nurse Was this a you know?
Was this a Planned Parenthoodfacility, or?
Or I mean no, just studenthealth services.
Roland Warren (08:38):
You know where the students go to get any kind
of medical stuff.
No, just student healthservices.
You know where the students goto get any kind of medical stuff
?
Yeah, so she, you know.
I mean she could have said youknow who's the father, where's
the father?
Maybe we can come to the nextvisit to support you know, your
choice or his child.
I mean, she could have done allof that or how can we help you,
support you in your choice.
(09:00):
And she was, you know, an olderwoman obviously than my, than my
wife, and possibly a motherherself.
She could have leaned into thatperspective, but she, she
didn't, you know, she leaned toa perspective that really didn't
give her much choice.
She essentially kind of said toher well, you really don't have
a choice here and the onlyright choice is, you know, is
abortion.
And I think for so many womenin that vulnerable moment, when
(09:32):
the people who could supportthem or encourage them, you know
, to make a life decision, whenthey have someone who says that
to them, it can be veryinfluential and especially if
they're not anchored in you know, a perspective, you know the
child is a blessing and that Godhas a hope, has a future for
you, you know, a hope in thefuture not to harm you, hoping
the future not to harm you, youknow, and they don't lean into
that, then it can be very easyfor you to.
You know, sacrifice thevulnerable for your own you know
success or for your own futureas as you see it in that moment.
Chris Grainger (09:51):
Yeah Well, I'm curious because you know I'm
thinking young cop, youngcollege kids getting pregnant.
You know, obviously, yourChristian convictions.
You knew what you were going todo.
What about your families?
How was the response there?
Were they as supportive?
Because that can be challengingas well.
Roland Warren (10:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think you know both were
supportive in the sense of, youknow, neither side pressured us
to have an abortion, you know,and so that was really good in
terms of that.
And you know they hadn't reallywanted us to get married before
then, but you know they were,you know they were fine with us
getting married after thishappened and we kind of started
(10:31):
our life together that way.
But you know, for so manypeople, if you don't, if you
have family members that arediscouraging you from doing it,
then obviously that has anenormous impact.
I mean, one of the insightsthat I feel like I've had as
I've gotten older is just thepower of people who are close to
you and the way that that voicethat they speak in that moment
(10:54):
can really lead you down a pathof sin.
I mean, it goes all the wayback to the garden, right?
So if you think about Adam inthe garden, so the question I
have thought about is did Satanapproach Adam to sin before Eve?
Did he, you know?
And if he did, obviously hewasn't successful, right?
And then he either waited forEve or he was successful when
(11:16):
Eve was there.
And I think the principle thereis that intimate relationships,
close relationships, can oftendrive us to move away from God's
principles and God's standards.
You know, and so you see thaton issues like whether it's you
know, whether it's you knowsame-sex issue, or whether it's
you know, the trans issue orabortion or whatever, you don't
(11:40):
really find folks saying youknow, I was going through
scripture and I found inscripture support for many of
these perspectives.
It always is.
Well, you know, I have a familymember who is living that
lifestyle or has thatperspective, and I love that
family member and so I've chosethe path of kind of going with
that family member rather thanthe path of going with God's
(12:01):
word.
So he really does use, you know, sort of intimate relationships
to draw us away from him andabortion is also, you know, sort
of one of those things thatends up in that same perspective
100%, 100%.
Chris Grainger (12:15):
And I love in your book you know you kind of
you hear pro-life all the time,and of course I do, and we hear
the stances behind that, butpro-abund, abundant life, that,
that, that hits and that hitsgood.
I want to say, when I got thebook I'm like, oh, I like this
because I mean John 1010, we hadthat in our barn, at our farm.
(12:35):
I'm a 1010 guy.
You know my favorite, myfavorite pastors, he had a two
year.
He called it a 1010 journey.
He he's out of Florida and itwas great.
So I'm just curious, when youwere starting and working
through this and praying throughthis, like, how did you come up
with that, the pro abundantlife?
Roland Warren (12:55):
Well, you know it's interesting, it really was.
You know something that Godkind of brought to my heart
based on a number of differentthings that were going on in my
life.
And just a little interestingfun fact you know, roe v Wade
(13:16):
was overturned at 1010 am.
So oh, I can't make it up Justto put a fine point on it Right,
that I just thought that'spretty amazing that it was
overturned at 1010.
It could have been overturnedat many different times, but you
know.
So I really kind of thoughtabout that in the context of,
you know, this notion ofabundant life.
God's sort of putting a finepoint on this notion of not just
being for life but for abundantlife.
And, as you said, you know itcomes from.
(13:36):
You know that passage whereJesus, you know, basically says
his why statement, why he came.
You know, this is why he came,that we might have life and then
have that life abundantly.
And he's talking about twotypes of life.
He's talking about physicallife, where the Greek word bios,
b-i-o-s the same kind ofnarrative that gives us the word
biology, like physical life.
(13:56):
But he's also talking about Zoe, which is a unique type of
spiritual life that only comesfrom a relationship with God.
So the way I've kind of thoughtabout it is that he's basically
saying, in that moment I cameto link your bias to my Zoe that
you might be heartbeats thatare heaven bound.
And so when I started to kind ofthink about the life issue
(14:17):
through that lens as a Christian, I said, well, you know, jesus
isn't saying that he's pro-life,he's saying he's pro-abundant
life, because that's what he'ssaying.
He's like you might have lifeabundantly.
So I'm pro-abundant life, notjust pro-life.
In other words, he's solvingfor Bias and Zoe.
And that's what you see, youknow, in the interactions that
Christ had with folks.
He would meet them at theirpoint of bias, gave her physical
(14:45):
healing right, but he stopped.
Why did he stop?
Didn't have to.
She got her bias, she washealed, she wouldn't bleed no
more.
Why'd he stop?
Because he wanted to restoreher fully, in other words, to
link her bias to his zoe right,to restore her physically,
emotionally, spiritually andsocially.
The fullness of restorationsocially, the fullness of
restoration, that's the fullnessof life and that's abundant
(15:08):
life in that context.
So what I realized was I said,well, wait a minute, if Jesus
wasn't just pro-life, he waspro-abundant life, then if I'm a
follower of Christ, then my whystatement for how I engage in
this issue should be linked tohis why statement, and his why
statement was abundant life.
And the other thing which iskind of clear you can be an
atheist and be pro-life becauseyou're solving for Bias Not a
(15:31):
bad thing, it's a great thingbut you can't be an atheist and
be pro-abundant life becauseyou're not solving for
heartbeats that are heaven bound.
So my view was well then, as westart to think about Care Net
as a ministry, we're not apro-life organization, we're a
pro-abundant life organization.
And then we started workingdown.
So how do we bring heaven toearth, so to speak?
(15:53):
In terms of that, how do we getthat abundant life on earth?
What are the institutions thatGod gives us in order for
abundant life to happen inhumanity?
Chris Grainger (16:07):
And that's what leads to the pro-abundant life
perspective which I lay out inthe book Right, love it, love it
.
Guys, we're going to take ourfirst break.
We'll come back and keepdigging in.
I've got something big to share.
We're making a major shiftbecause we know the battle was
real and it's time more men hadaccess to the support they need.
For too long, guys have beentrying to carry the weight alone
pressure at work, tension athome, wounds from the past in a
(16:29):
world that demands strength butoffers no place to rest.
We see it, we've lived it, andthat's exactly why we built our
community.
It's a stronghold, a placewhere warriors can find rest,
truth and a band of brothersstanding beside them.
And starting now, we're makingit easier than ever to step in.
We've lowered the barrier tojust $15.99 a month.
(16:51):
That means, for less than thecost of a drive-thru lunch, you
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growth.
Inside you'll find access toour daily spiritual kickoffs
every Monday through Friday ourLion Lunches, our Bible Studies,
our Friday Forge Gatherings allthat and so much more.
Every man needs a strongholdand you don't have to fight
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(17:14):
is it?
Go to thelionwithinus and jointhe community and see for
yourself what happens when irontruly sharpens iron.
See, I love to, as youmentioned, the bios and the Zoe.
So you have the greatcommandment, the great
commission.
You have some wonderfulvisualizations in the book, by
(17:34):
the way, I think whoever did theillustrations, they're
incredible.
They really help because youhave the discipleship component
around the family component, andmaybe just break down how you
came up with that model, how Godrevealed it to you and what
does that practically look likefor the believer out there who
(17:54):
wants to take their pro-lifeposition and actually take it to
the next level.
That's really what I see here.
Roland Warren (18:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean the first.
So one of the graphics I havein there, because I was thinking
about a graphic to illustratethis, and I have this graphic
that's sort of a house with, youknow, with a roof and two
pillars that hold up the roofright, and so the roof is Pro
Abundant Life John 10.10.
So how do you support thatperspective?
And there are two pillars thathold up that perspective.
(18:23):
The first pillar is God'sdesign for family, as that first
pillar, and you know, reallyGod sort of led me to see the
birth of Christ, you know, inthe lens of the life issue,
because, you know, mary wasfacing an unplanned pregnancy
from a human perspective, shehad hopes for her life, dreams
for her life that didn't includea child at that time and in
(18:45):
that way.
And so, you know, when I thinkabout that, I think about my
wife, the way that my wife gotpregnant, obviously very
different from Mary, but thepractical consequences after she
got pregnant were very similar.
Mary's like, I'm sure, what?
How am I going to tell myfather and my mother and my
community?
How am I going to take care ofthis child?
What's Joseph going to say?
I mean all this uncertaintyswirling around in her head and
(19:06):
you know what does she do inthat moment.
She doesn't focus on theuncertainty of what she doesn't
know, she focuses on thecertainty of what she does, that
there's a life growing insideof her, and it's not a life
worth sacrificing, but a lifeworth sacrificing for.
And she says what?
Let it be on to me, as you havesaid.
So, when I think about theministry work that CareDead's
involved in in our network of1,200 plus pregnancy centers,
and the work we do with ournational hotline for women and
(19:29):
men facing pregnancy decisions,and the work that we do to
connect those folks to churchesfor ongoing support and
discipleship.
Essentially, what we're tryingto do is encourage them to tap
into their inner Mary, toascribe to themselves the virtue
and the character of Mary,right?
So you sit knee to knee withsomebody and that's what you're
praying for and that's whatyou're trying to call out of
them.
(19:49):
That notion, like her, don'tfocus on the uncertainty of what
you don't know, right, focus onthe certainty of what you do,
that this is a life not worthsacrificing, but a life worth
sacrificing for, and say let itbe unto you, as you have said.
So that story in the firstchapter, the first book of the
New Testament of the birth ofChrist, is really illustrative
of really in my view, from aChristian perspective, how we
(20:14):
should be engaging on a lifeissue, because it's the best
example of how God responded toan unplanned pregnancy from a
human perspective.
What did he do?
Well, he went to Mary andcalled her in that role, but he
didn't stop there.
Like folks say, okay, I got it.
Got it, Ronald, we're supposedto help the proverbial Marys and
save the proverbial Jesus.
It's great, let me close myBible, let's get at it.
But what did God do to make surethat Mary's unplanned pregnancy
(20:35):
wasn't a crisis pregnancy?
Send an angel to Joseph andJoseph had a plan he was going
to put her away quietly.
He was going to divorce herquietly right, because that's
how you essentially didabortions back then, because you
couldn't put the baby away.
So you put the woman and thebaby away, and the angel comes
to Joseph and says listen, Iknow that's your plan, but I got
a new plan.
And what does he call Joseph todo?
First thing, he tells him donot be afraid to take Mary as
(20:56):
your wife.
In other words, he calls him tobe a husband to her and a
father to the child growinginside of her.
And so when I looked at thatnativity narrative, as I call it
, through the lens of looked atthe life issue through the lens
rather of the nativity narrative, I realized that there's a big
miss in terms of how we've beenapproaching the life issue for
50 years.
Yeah, we've been trying to helpthe Pravarial Marys and save
(21:19):
the Pravarial Jesuses, but wehave not been trying to engage
the perennial Joseph's.
We have not had that framework.
We've framed the issue as abouta woman and a baby, which is a
counter to the pro-choice side,which is about a woman and a
question mark.
And so we actually created sortof this yin-yang kind of thing,
where they're for the women,we're for the women, we're both
for the women and we're arguingover the baby's a question mark
(21:42):
or not.
And I need to reject that entireparadigm because what you see
in the first chapter, the firstbook of the New Testament, is
that God created a family.
So it's not just about thesanctity of life, it's about the
sanctity of marriage and familyas God designed, right.
And so that's what you see.
So it seems to me that ifyou're a pro abundant life right
(22:04):
that you would focus on notjust saving the baby and helping
the woman, but reaching the manand, to the best of your
ability, trying to help thembuild a marriage, a family.
And I look at my own life.
Well, you know that's exactlywhat happened.
I mean, you know our firstpregnancy was unplanned.
You know our second pregnancyshe tricked me no, I'm just
(22:24):
kidding.
But our second pregnancy wenever faced another unplanned
pregnancy.
Why we created a family, welived out that perspective.
And what happens when a womanhas a guy who says I'll be a
husband to you and a father tothe child growing inside of you,
guess what she's more likely togive the child?
What Life Bias 87% of the womenthat have abortions are
unmarried.
Life bias 87% of the women thathave abortions are unmarried.
(22:47):
So if you delink the marriageissue, the sanctity of marriage
and family issue, from thesanctity of life, you end up
getting neither, and that's whatwe have ended up doing.
And so that first pillar thatholds up a pro abundant life
perspective is God's design forfamily and really your goal
should be, you know, trying todo that.
And I'll just make one one more,just final, kind of put a finer
point on that.
(23:08):
If you talk to the typical, youknow, pro-life, christian and
you and if I said, you listen awoman comes to you and she's
pregnant and you've got thisability to, to, to change
everything in anything in herlife except the fact that she's
pregnant.
You can change anything exceptthe fact that she's pregnant.
You can change anything exceptthe fact that she's pregnant.
What would you want to havehappen?
So I want her to have a baby.
(23:29):
Great, that's it.
You want to be a single mom?
No, no, I want the father to beinvolved.
Okay, what do you want?
Be a baby daddy, bring pampersevery now and then.
I mean, what do you want?
No-transcript work for thehigher thing, don't settle for
(24:13):
the lower thing.
So a pro-abundant lifeperspective is that higher thing
.
It's not just about savingbabies, as God honoring as that
is.
It's not just about raisingchildren, as God honoring as
that is.
It's not just about raisingchildren, as God honoring as
that is.
It's not just about helpingwomen, as God honoring as that
is.
It's about building a family, afather and mother uniting in
marriage, loving each other,loving their child, to be
(24:33):
disciples who make disciples,who live and love like Jesus,
you don't get that from apro-life perspective.
You get that from apro-abundant life perspective,
because you can't be a proabundant life with actually
trying to focus on building afamily consistent with God's
design for family.
Chris Grainger (24:50):
What I love about it is you touch on the
component, like you said, that'smissing from all the so, so
much the pro life narrative, thefather.
It's just a very simple pieceand that's that's a pivotal role
in and the pro-abundant lifethat you're, that you're talking
about here, because I and I getso many.
You know it's funny when youtalk I'm sure you hear people
(25:11):
talk about, you know, surprisepregnancy.
Well, I'm gonna tell you whatthere may be surprise parents,
but there are zero surprisebabies.
I mean, just, it don't workthat way.
I mean I just feel like youknow, god has a design, he has a
plan and it's going to come out.
So I just I applaud you forleaning into that, the family
component of it, and bringing inthe men, because we have to be
(25:31):
fostering men, because there'snot much out there, roland, I
don't know from your standpointso far as equipping and
encouraging and helping men.
You know, lean into what we'vebeen called to do.
That's really what I try to dowith the lion, and there are
other organizations too, but thechurch, I feel like as well.
We have to be talking aboutthis more more openly, about our
(25:52):
given duty to provide, protect,preside over our families and
be that that the leader of ourspiritual leader of our homes.
Roland Warren (25:58):
Well, it is, and it's so important and really
it's been the enemy's plan, youknow, to get get every man to
kind of make like Adam, you know, because, look, look, the first
abortion actually happened inthe Garden of Eden.
The abortion is a physical actthat is a reflection of a
reality that you have in termsof your relationship with God.
(26:18):
It's essentially saying I knowwhat's better for my life than
God does.
That's basically what anabortion is.
It's the same thing.
So she says what, my fruit, mychoice, my fruit, my choice.
And then Adam says, well, herbody, her choice, right.
And then he partakes Well, theabortionist is exactly the same
and the evil one, just like inthe garden, wants the man to
(26:39):
just stand there and not engage.
And when that happens, guesswhat you get?
What you get.
Look, when we looked at thedata on, you know, influence
around abortion, we did a studysome time ago and we a national
survey with Lifeway and wesurveyed men who had
participated in abortion and weasked them you know sort of kind
(27:00):
of, you know what role did youplay, if you will?
We asked you know who did shetalk?
You know what role did you play, if you will.
We asked you who did she talkto?
And we gave them a list ofdifferent people and number one
was the guy.
Then we asked him who do youthink was the most influential
in her decision to abort?
And the guy says I was Did thesame survey with women.
And we said who did you talk to?
She says number one was the guy.
(27:24):
And then we asked her who wasthe most influential in your
decision to abort?
Guess what?
It was the guy.
So abortion the guy's involvedand he's the most influential.
And what we've been doing in alot of ways is we've been
treating guys in the pro-lifemovement the same way that the
pro-choice people do.
The pro-choice people want herbody, her choice, in other words
(27:46):
, to isolate her, separate heraway from the guy and when that
happens she's more likely tohave the abortion right.
And we're doing sort of thesame thing before a different
reason.
There's sort of thisperspective well, the guy's just
going to try to help her havean abortion, so we need to
protect her from him.
But the reality is that he'salso the key to her making the
(28:07):
life decision.
That's why 87 percent of thewomen that have abortions are
unmarried, and particularly inthe context of the sanctity of
marriage and family.
So, really, that's the reasonwhy, you know, when I think
about this, it's like why youknow this, calling this
(28:29):
pro-abundant life as opposed topro-life is so important.
You know, in a lot of ways,because it's a different thing.
It's a different thing and theother thing, reason why you know
, frankly, just from a practicalreality of it, you know, I ask
people all the time, you know,they say they pro-life.
I say, well, what do you meanby that?
Because the term has actuallylost, it's actually lost its
(28:52):
concrete meaning.
And here's what I mean by that.
I say, okay, you're pro-life.
Yes, and why?
Okay, because I believe in amodel day, right.
I believe that thecircumstances of a child's
conception and birth should notdetermine its humanity and worth
, right?
So whether you're conceived inlove or lust, or planned or
unplanned, or you have a fetalabnormality, it doesn't matter.
Your humanity is intact becauseit's intrinsically tied to God.
(29:16):
You're one of God's imagebearers and worthy of protection
, got it?
What about you?
Well, I'm pro-life too.
Okay, but I'm for a 15 week ban, okay.
Well, how many abortionshappened before 15 weeks?
96%, according to CDC.
Okay, so you're okay with 96%of abortions and you're pro-life
(29:38):
, yes, okay.
What about you?
Well, I'm pro-life too.
I'm for a 20 week ban becausewe're talking about pain capable
or late-term abortions orwhatever.
I'm against late-term abortions, but early-term I'm fine.
Okay, how many abortions happenbefore 20 weeks?
99%, ah, see, so you're okaywith 99% of abortions?
Yes, but I'm pro-life.
You look at the pro-life plankof the Republican platform.
The only abortions that it'sagainst are late term abortions,
(30:02):
which are abortions after 20weeks, which is about 1 percent
of abortions.
So what I mean?
We've taken a term that's kindof supposed to be an absolute
Right and now it's on a spectrum, it's flexible, it's really
meaningless in many ways becauseit doesn't have a very specific
(30:22):
meaning.
In many ways, because itdoesn't have a very specific
meaning, we've allowed it to becontaminated because we pulled
away from the conviction of whatit actually means.
I think you should define whatit means to be quote pro-life
from the perspective of the babyin the womb.
So if you're the baby in thewomb, we say, okay, now here's
these multiple perspectives here.
Which one are you for?
Well, this one over here.
(30:43):
Can I end up dead?
Yeah, sure, a lot of times,maybe even the majority of the
time.
Well, what about thispro-abundant life thing you've
been talking about?
Yeah, no, that's based on ImagoDei, that the circumstances of
your conception and birth do notchange your humanity and worth.
So, no matter how, yep, I'drather have those guys leading,
(31:03):
not that.
And all that has to do with thefact that we gave the issue to
the political process.
We gave the life issue.
We decided that we were goingto win this issue with political
power and I understand there'sa role for political power, but
you have to understand thedynamic of politics and the way
politics works.
(31:23):
Power, but you have tounderstand the dynamic of
politics and the way politicsworks.
When you have a politicalframework, you essentially have
two people with a set ofconvictions so I'm an
environmentalist and you're abig lumber or something right
and we are in this politicaldebate about what to do with
this piece of land and we get ina room and then we come up with
a compromise.
So we compromise aspects of ourconvictions in order to reach a
(31:45):
compromise.
So the political process, byits very nature, is two people
coming with a conviction andthen letting go of some aspect
of their conviction in order toreach a compromise.
That's fine with something likeland or some other things that
are splittable land or someother things that are splittable
but when you have a baby, youcan't split it.
(32:06):
It's an absolute right.
You can't split it.
And one of the illustrations Igive to people all the time to
kind of focus in this way, isremember in 1 Kings, when
Solomon was presented with onebaby and two women, and both of
those women were like well, thisis my baby and he's trying to
figure out whose baby is it.
(32:26):
So he first starts with apolitical solution Bring me my
sword, I'll just cut the thingand you'll get your half.
And you'll get your half.
That's the politics of it.
Everybody gets what they.
And the mother of the child?
Oh, no, no.
And the mother of the child?
Oh no, no, no, no, no.
She can have the child, she canhave the child.
Why?
Because, see, she was focusedon righteousness and justice and
(32:50):
mercy for the vulnerable.
Chris Grainger (32:52):
Yeah.
Roland Warren (32:54):
Right, yep.
And so she realized no, no,because you can't split the baby
and get righteousness andjustice and mercy, right.
So Solomon, in his role firstas a king, but he had wisdom, he
also had other roles, as kindof a priest and a prophet.
It was a spiritual thing.
In other words, the pro-lifeperspective will split the baby,
so to speak, because we'renegotiating a political
(33:15):
narrative, but the pro-abundantlife perspective was no, no,
let's solve for justice andmercy and righteousness, right.
Which means that thatperspective has to lead.
On an issue that is a moralissue, that perspective has to
lead.
So it's essentially exchangingthe podium for the pulpit in
(33:35):
terms of who leads on this issue.
We've been allowing the podiumto lead on this issue.
No, the pulpit needs to lead onthis issue, because the pulpit
understands that you can't splitthe baby.
The podium says, well, we kindof can split the baby.
You see what I'm saying.
So that's again when you thinkthrough the difference between
being pro-life and pro-abundantlife.
This is what I'm talking aboutand again, it's because that's
(33:58):
the very nature of the politicalprocess, is what it does, it's
part of the very nature of it100%, 100%.
Chris Grainger (34:06):
Guys, we're going to take a quick break.
We'll be coming right back.
We're making a big change thatI think you're really going to
enjoy.
I spent a lot of time thinkingabout our spiritual kickoffs and
, honestly, I love doing themeach week, so much so we started
doing them live every Mondaythrough Friday inside our
(34:27):
exclusive platform, and here'sthe best part we decided to give
full access, completely free,so now you can join our daily
spiritual kickoff space at nocost.
Every day, we go live to readthe word, to encourage each
other and find simple andpowerful ways to apply God's
(34:48):
truth to our lives.
You'll even have the chance toengage with me directly, and if
you missed a live stream, don'tworry.
The videos are posted the sameday so you can catch up whenever
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This is exclusive behind behindthe scenes content that is not
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(35:09):
So if you're ready to getstarted, head over to the lion
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Let's grow together, rollingthe second pillar of your pro,
abundant, lifeundant life modelI absolutely love.
I feel like it's such a missingcomponent in many areas, even
(35:32):
from Christian teaching.
But discipleship I'm verycurious.
Can you just unpack what youmean by that for the
pro-abundant life model?
Roland Warren (35:43):
Yeah, it's really the.
So the second pillar is thatGod's called to discipleship.
So it's basically looking atthe life issue through the lens
of discipleship.
In other words, someone who'sfacing an unplanned pregnancy
you look at that issue through.
This person needs to become adisciple of Jesus Christ.
So your first thought when yousee a woman facing an unplanned
pregnancy is not like where do Ineed, who do I need to vote for
(36:09):
so that she can't have anabortion, or what kind of
material support she needs Bothissues that are important, but
that's not my primary thing as aChristian.
Your first thought should be isshe a disciple of Jesus Christ?
The child growing inside of herneeds to be a disciple of Jesus
Christ.
The guy who got her pregnantneeds to be a disciple of Jesus
Christ, which means the churchleads on that.
In other words, you start toview the life issue the way we
view so many other good worksthat Christians do Water for the
(36:31):
thirsty, food for the hungry,clothes for the naked, homes for
the homeless.
Right, there's all kinds ofsocial services organizations
that engage in these things, butChristians a lot of times say,
well, yeah, I could do that.
I could give to UNICEF or CAREor something you know, but I'm
going to give to World Vision orI'm going to give to, you know,
compassion or you know, orWorld Relief, like an
(36:51):
organization that's linking Biasto Zoe right.
In other words, that's not justsolving for Bias but also
solving for Zoe.
And what's happened?
Again, in large measure becauseof the political process.
We think about water for thethirsty, food for the hungry,
clothes for the naked, all thesethings through the lens of
discipleship, like on ramps todiscipleship, but for compassion
(37:11):
for the pregnant, we putoutside of that framework.
So basically, the second pillarof God's call to discipleship
is really seeing this issuethrough the lens of discipleship
.
And when you do that, then it'ssomething that is absolutely
the focus of the church, it'sthe role of the church.
(37:32):
And you asked yourself aquestion could it be that God is
using this unplanned pregnancyin this woman's life that she
might become a disciple of JesusChrist?
Could it be and guess what?
That's not some crazy theology,because God used an unplanned
pregnancy in Mary's life to itin that she would become a
disciple of Jesus Christ, thatyou and I would become disciples
of Jesus Christ.
Our whole faith is built on anunplanned pregnancy from a human
(37:55):
perspective, and God's response, which was to build a family
and to make disciples.
You see what I'm saying.
So that's that second pillar,and when you do that then you
say gosh, then this has to beanchored in the church, because
the church is the seat ofdiscipleship.
Discipleship happens in thechurch.
So that's why our pregnancycenter model and the pregnancy
centers, we do evangelism right,so we introduce the gospel and
(38:18):
what that does is that creates aconvert.
The gospel and what that doesis that creates a convert.
But a discipleship is a longerprocess.
That's why, if you look atagain Matthew 28, 19,.
It says what To go and makedisciples right Baptize them in
the name of the Father, son andthe Holy Spirit and to what
Teach them to obey all that Itaught.
Well, you can't do that in apregnancy center in a
(38:42):
several-month perspective thatyou have there.
That's a long-term process, andso a key part of our ministry
model is really making sure thatpeople move from pregnancy
centers to the church forongoing support and discipleship
.
And so we create a ministrycalled Making Life Disciples,
which is designed to teachpeople in the church to come
(39:02):
alongside someone in the churchor outside the church who may be
facing a pregnancy decision, soyou can go to
makinglifedisciplescom to learnmore about that.
But it really is kind offocused on, like, our small
groups.
So many churches have smallgroups and a lot of times our
small groups are about us lovingus.
What if your small group becameabout us loving them?
What if your small group wastrained so that your local
(39:25):
pregnancy center could call upyour church and you would come
alongside this woman facing apregnancy decision or this
couple facing the pregnancydecision?
Life decisions need life supportand the life support they need
is sitting in pews right inchurches, and so it really is
about mobilizing.
But once you think about itthat way, then you understand
(39:45):
that, see, if you're a proabundant life, you understand.
See, a pro abundant lifeperspective leads you to the
cross.
You get people to the cross.
A pro life perspective oftenleads you to the poles.
Right, she don't need to go tothe polls, she needs the cross.
And then you take theperspective of the cross to the
polls.
We've been taking theperspective of the polls back to
(40:06):
the church and we'vecompromised on the issue.
So that second pillar again isGod's call to discipleship the
call to discipleship and viewingthe life issue primarily
through the lens of adiscipleship.
It's a discipleship issue thathas a political component and a
material support need not theother way around.
Chris Grainger (40:28):
I'm also super curious because there's so many
Christian men in particularlistening to the lion and they
want to be active.
They want to understand whereto put their time, their talent,
their treasure.
To your point, where she'll befunding Care Net.
Maybe explain, you know you'represident, you're CEO of Care
Net.
Explain how that works and whatyou're doing to support that
(40:50):
pro-abundant life movement.
Roland Warren (40:53):
Yeah, yeah, again , we have a very robust ministry
model.
Again, you can come to ourwebsite, care-netorg care-netorg
to learn about what we're doingfrom a ministry perspective.
I mentioned Making LifeDisciples as a core initiative
that you could start in yourchurch.
Also, there are lots of localpregnancy centers that need the
(41:14):
support specifically for men tocome alongside, so to walk
alongside men who are comingthere.
More and more of the pregnancycenters are now offering some
component of men's ministry.
So we want, when that womancomes in facing that pregnancy
decision, we want the guy theretoo, and we need men to come
alongside and walk alongsidethat guy who's facing the
pregnancy decision.
(41:35):
A lot of these guys grew upwithout fathers.
They're terrified of becomingfathers.
Maybe you've been a father fordecades.
Will you mentor this young man?
Same thing in terms of marriage.
A lot of these guys are inrelationships and they've never
even seen what a godly marriagelooks like.
You've been married for decades.
Will you mentor this youngcouple?
She doesn't have a place tolive.
(41:55):
Do you have an extra room?
He needs a job.
You got a business orconnections that can help make
that happen.
Again, these are the lifedecisions that lead to the life
support perspective.
And then also a key thing for ustoo, is the post-abortion piece
.
We have so many people sittingin pews that have made the
abortion decision and they needto be healed and forgiven and
set free.
So we have a ministry on rampwhich you can go to called
(42:20):
abortionhealingorg, which is ourministry on-ramp for
post-abortion.
For women, we've got a robustministry called Forgiven and Set
Free, and for men we have onecalled Reclaiming Fatherhood.
So if you're a guy who'slistening, who had an abortion
in your past and you needhealing and to be set free
Absolutely, we've got a ministryfor that.
(42:42):
And why is that so important?
It's important because there'sso many people who aren't taking
action because they feel thatthey can't.
They're paralyzed by their past, they're so locked up in the
guilt and the shame of the pastdecision.
And the encouragement that's inscripture for us is really, and
particularly for men, in thiscontext.
You know, peter aborted Jesusbecause an abortion is a
(43:04):
rejection of vulnerable life.
That's what he did.
He aborted.
He said I don't know this, dude.
Right, that's what abortion is.
That's what you're saying tothe child.
I don't know this child, youknow, I don't.
I don't know them.
Well, isn't this your baby?
No, I look, I got nothing to dohere, right?
Well, what did Jesus do afterPeter aborted him?
He said, well, I guess thisguy's not fit for service
anymore.
No, he called him and herestored him.
(43:25):
Do you love me?
Do you love me, do you love me?
And then he told him feed mysheep, and that whole
perspective.
He gave him a mission.
In other words, he was calledand then mission.
And then Peter became one ofthe obviously one of the most
effective disciple makers.
For Christ, the for Christ.
The same thing happens on theabortion issue.
If you have a past abortion inyour life, god wants to use that
(43:49):
to help you become an effectivedisciple maker.
He'll take that in your lifeand use it for your good and for
his glory.
So, but you need to be set free, you need to work through.
You know that perspective andthe choice that you made there.
But there's you know again,there's room at the cross for
all of us and he wants to put usinto service.
Chris Grainger (44:04):
Amen, amen.
I am curious too, roland.
I mean, obviously you have somuch expertise here and this is
you're so passionate about itFor the everyday guy that's out
there, maybe speak to him for aminute.
You know we're in a post Roe vWade decision now.
It's very hot so far as you canget people very worked up in
(44:28):
debates over this whole pro-life, pro-choice.
You know what does that mean.
Do you have any practical tipsor encouragement for just the
everyday guy out there that'slistening that you know, if they
want to actually do somethingto support it and without being,
I guess, you know, viewed as aradical or something like that,
(44:51):
I'm just curious, like,practically, how would you
suggest getting started?
Roland Warren (44:55):
Yeah, I think you know I always start with the
why, like why are you doing thisand why are you engaged on this
issue?
Start with the why, like whyare you doing this and why are
you engaged on this issue?
And if you're engaging on thisissue to win a political
argument or just an argument ingeneral, you know that's always
going to be more confrontationalin terms of what happens there.
You know, my encouragement tofolks first is to understand,
(45:16):
like, what is our call asChristians, and then the life
issue is lived out in thecontext of our call.
So the call for any guy as aChristian from Christ is pretty
simple.
What did Christ do?
He lived out the greatcommandment to fulfill the great
commission.
That's what he did.
He just walked around livingout the great commandment to
fulfill the great commission Onthe cross, living out the great
(45:38):
commandment to fulfill the greatcommission.
What's the great commandment?
Well, luke 10, 27 talks aboutwe're called to love God.
Love our neighbor as our, asourself, and right and and
loving God, loving your neighboras yourself.
Well, there's three loves thereLoving God got it Loving your
neighbor and then loving self.
Those three loves like aTrinity that if you disconnect
one of those loves, then youwould take what you take what's
(46:06):
a virtue and you make it into avice.
Right, so I don't love God, butI do love my neighbor, I do
love myself.
That's humanism.
So you can kind of go throughthat.
Well, when you unpack that inthe context of like as a guy for
the life issue, you realizethat that the word that's used
for neighbor means near one inEnglish near one or near fellow,
and we talk about nearness interms of proximity, like I'm
next to you, or relationship,I'm here next to kin.
(46:27):
Well, the baby in the womb isthe woman's near one, right,
it's her nearest near one.
And also for the guy who gother pregnant.
That's why you can't supportabortion as a Christian.
It's a violation of the greatcommandment.
So, as ament, so what are youcalled to do then as a guy?
Practically well, live out thegreat commandment.
That means you need to help aneighbor, love a neighbor.
(46:47):
So what I've found is, ifyou're having conversations and
I really, again, my thing is notlike trying to engage, like the
broader culture first.
First we actually need toengage the church.
The problem with the abortionissue is not the broader culture
, the problem with the abortionissue is the church, that we
have too many people in thechurch that are not looking at
the abortion issue through theGreat Commandment and the Great
(47:09):
Commission.
So as you engage, start havingconversations with people, say,
listen, I am looking for ways tolive out the Great Commandment
to fulfill the Great Commission.
That's what I'm looking for andI'm looking for service
opportunities to basically dothat.
So when you volunteer at apregnancy center to walk
alongside a guy facing apregnancy decision, practical
(47:31):
right, you're living out thegreat commandment to fulfill the
great commission, right To helphim live out the great
commandment to love the neighborin the girl and the woman's
womb and also the woman herselfbecause she is his neighbor.
And also abortion is aviolation of the Great
Commission.
Why?
Because you're called to makedisciples of who your neighbors
(47:52):
and your first neighborhood isyour children.
So abortion is a violation ofthe Great Commandment and the
Great Commission.
So when you're practicallylooking at it you say, well gosh
, I'm getting involved in thisissue, not because of some
political narrative, necessarily, but I'm getting involved in
this issue because as aChristian, I'm called to live
out the Great Commandment tofulfill the Great Commission and
I'm looking for opportunitiesto do that so you support single
(48:14):
moms who are facing pregnancydecisions and maybe need some
support in some way, shape orform, or someone who's facing,
you know, this type of decisionabortion decision or walk
alongside a guy who's facingthat kind of decision with your
time, your talent and yourtreasure, that kind of thing.
And there's plenty ofopportunities to do that.
And one of the major major needswe have again is that pregnancy
(48:35):
centers and life affirmingministries for men to step in,
not just with you know, kind offixing stuff and that kind of
thing, but also to get involvedin the ministry of coming
alongside a guy who's facing apregnancy decision and saying,
listen, I want to walk alongsideyou in this, and particularly
if you've been in that journeywhere you've either faced an
unplanned pregnancy whether itwas abortion or not, it doesn't
(48:57):
really matter you have a uniqueperspective that that guy needs
to hear.
And as we get more and more menstepping into that role, what
you'll start to see is theabortion, the abortion
perspective change in thebroader square.
You have more men that arestepping into the issue and
saying I will support this woman, hopefully stepping up as
husbands and fathers in thatrole, and then what you start to
(49:19):
see from that is a reduction ofabortion, because men are
stepping in with their time,their talent and treasure to
come alongside other men who arefacing a pregnancy decision
(49:45):
no-transcript.
Chris Grainger (49:51):
What do you enjoy doing?
Roland Warren (49:52):
Any hobbies that you have well, I got grandkids,
so those are my hobbies.
I don't play golf or any ofthat kind of stuff.
I lift weights and exercise totry to make sure I can be around
and be able to move around formy grandkids.
That's what I love to do.
It's just such a blessing.
I really didn't have mygrandparents very much involved
(50:13):
in my life, so it brings megreat joy to be involved in my
grandkids' life.
Chris Grainger (50:18):
So are they local in the area.
Roland Warren (50:20):
Yeah, four of them are local.
Well, three in one coming inJuly local.
The other one's in LA, so wetry to get out there as much.
So I've got four and hopefullyfive, by God's grace coming in
July.
Chris Grainger (50:32):
Well, I mean, as a July baby, I will tell you
they are the best.
So we pray for a healthydelivery there in July.
That's awesome, that's awesome.
How about favorite food, roland?
What's your, what's your go-to?
Roland Warren (50:44):
Gosh, it's stuff I shouldn't eat.
Probably chocolate chip cookies.
Love those, love me, I can hurtmyself with some chocolate chip
cookies.
There you go.
Chris Grainger (50:53):
Sweet too, huh.
Roland Warren (50:55):
Yeah.
Chris Grainger (50:56):
How about all time favorite movie?
What do you enjoy?
Oh gosh.
Roland Warren (51:05):
All time favorite movie.
What do you enjoy?
Oh gosh, um, all-time favoritemovie.
Oh, I don't know.
Oh, brother, we're out there.
It's probably up there on mylist, okay, nacho nacho libre.
We like the silly ones, thesilly ones.
There you go.
Yes, and napoleon dynamite,that one's, that's a good one.
Those lines are used often inmy family.
Chris Grainger (51:23):
I hear you.
I hear you.
I can honestly say those threemovies had never been brought up
when I asked that question.
Roland Warren (51:30):
So you started.
Yeah, I was told you're Gonewith the Wind or some erudite
movie.
No, not around here.
We love to laugh, so love it,Love it.
Chris Grainger (51:39):
Well, if you let's speak about laughing if
you could have a super power,which one would you pick and how
would you use it?
You know, I've got all thesesuper powers out there.
Roland Warren (51:50):
Oh geez, it's almost like the Solomon question
.
Um, I think I think it'd becool to fly Right.
That would be that.
Yeah, that'd be cool.
Yeah, it's places very quickly,and yeah, I think that'd be
that'd be super cool WithMaryland.
Chris Grainger (52:03):
I'm sure there's a lot of traffic, so that would
probably come in pretty handyfor you.
Roland Warren (52:06):
Yes, yes, I got a terrible commute, so, yes,
flying would be very helpful,nice.
Chris Grainger (52:12):
You look back over the last six or 12 months,
Roland, what did you spend toomuch time doing?
We always ask this to kind ofgive the guys some reflective
time.
Roland Warren (52:22):
Oh, let's see Too much time doing Probably
worrying.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wouldsay that's probably it.
Chris Grainger (52:32):
Yeah, easy to get caught in that trap.
Easy for sure.
Well, when you think about God,what's your favorite thing
about him?
Roland Warren (52:47):
I think I'd say probably that he's, that he's
personal, you know, it's theEmmanuel thing, god with us.
You know that piece.
I think that when you reallylean into that, you know it
really helps you not view Godabstractly, you know, and, and
you can view him concretely, youknow.
So, you know, when I think thatway, when I'm praying, I'm
thinking, well, okay, like thisis a real person, you know, that
(53:10):
cares about me and that lovesme, and you know, then it, then
it, it.
It stops you and preventsprayer for being like rote and
formulaic.
You know, and that can happensometimes.
You know, I get in that mode.
I got my prayer times, let meget that and check that off the
list.
But you know, you know, mindfulof times, like no, no, this is
(53:31):
a real relationship with a realGod who's with you and wants to
be with you and bring that peace.
And, yeah, so that that to me,when I'm reminded of that, you
know that he'll never leave me,that he'll never forsake me,
that his peace is not just withme but he is with me as well,
(53:52):
not just the peace of God, butthe God of peace is with me.
I think that personalconnection I think is so
important to be mindful of andeasy to lose that perspective.
And when that happens and itbecomes just religion, you know
kind of formulaic framework.
Chris Grainger (54:08):
Yes, sir, now let's flip it 180.
What's your least favoritething about the evil one?
Roland Warren (54:19):
Well, it's just the whole notion of I mean, it
goes back to John 10, 10, whatkill, kill, steal, kill and
destroy.
You know, and you just see thatand you see the consequences of
that.
I see it in my own life, I seeit in our communities.
We see it in terms of theinjustice that happens
particularly to the, you know,to the vulnerable, you know, um
it just it's just heartbreaking.
(54:39):
You know that, that that's hisintent, but it is.
Chris Grainger (54:45):
Yeah.
So, yeah, 100 percent.
Last question for you, rolandwhat do you hope the guys
listening remember the most fromour conversation today?
Roland Warren (54:56):
Well, I'm kind of like a broken record.
I mean, basically, you knowjust that your mind be
transformed from a pro-lifeperspective to a pro-abundant
life perspective, and when moreand more people string that
together.
The reason I'm so encouragedthere is that when you start to
think about that way then, yeah,you want to fight to change the
laws and defund PlannedParenthood, all these different
(55:18):
things.
Yeah, you want to do that.
But what?
You realize that even if thosethings don't happen, that you
can make abortion unthinkable,even if it's legal.
People used to ask, you know,often, when Roe was on the books
, when's Roe going to beoverturned?
And I tell them all the time Isay Roe is overturned.
Every day there are women,every single day, that are
(55:39):
rejecting abortion.
When she rejects abortion, sheoverturned Roe, my wife
overturned Roe.
So even though it was perfectlylegal, it was unthinkable.
So you realize that, gosh, ifyou make it unthinkable, then it
takes the power of it beinglegal or not legal.
And then, frankly, when itbecomes unthinkable enough, then
guess what actually ends uphappening?
It becomes illegal.
But if you make it illegal andit's not unthinkable, then you
(56:01):
get what we kind of have now,right.
So we've got a tremendous poweras Christians, to sit knee to
knee with folks and, by thetransforming power of the gospel
of Jesus Christ and the lovethat we're called to give to
people, to make it unthinkablein the lives of folks.
And that's a power that noparty can take from us, no one
(56:25):
can take from us.
We have the ability totransform hearts and then that
transforms minds, and when thathappens, then the legislative
stuff takes care of itself.
So to me, that whole notionlike really changing your
perspective, being pro-abundantlife, anchoring in John 10, 10,
jesus's wise statement, that'sthe way forward and oh, by the
(56:47):
way, it's always been the wayforward.
Chris Grainger (56:49):
We just lost our way.
So Amen, amen.
Well, roland, where do you wantto send the listeners to
connect with you?
The wonderful stuff at Care Netto get a copy of the book?
Just want to give you a chanceto share your links here.
Roland Warren (56:59):
Yeah, so you can go.
The book is on Amazon.
Books are sold, so go on Amazon.
You can search for that.
I've got several other booksthat I've also written.
Along with the Alternative toAbortion, I wrote one called
Raising Sons of Promise, a guidefor single mothers of boys,
which kind of talks aboutspecifically how do you raise
boys in a way that they don'tbecome baby daddies but become
(57:21):
husbands and fathers, even ifthey're growing up in a single
mother environment.
And I've got Bad Dads of theBible Eight Mistakes that Every
Good Dad Can Avoid.
So I wrote that one some yearsago as well, when I was with
National Fatherhood Initiative.
So those books are also onAmazon as well.
If you want to come to thewebsite, it's rolandcwarrencom,
(57:44):
but lots of different ways toget to us.
Chris Grainger (57:47):
Right?
Well, it's been an absolutehonor to have you here.
We'll have those links in theshow notes.
Guys, go get a copy of the book.
Anything else you'd like toshare today, sir?
Roland Warren (57:54):
No, thanks so much for your time.
I appreciate it.
And just blessings to all yourlisteners.
Yes, blessings to all yourlisteners.
Chris Grainger (58:00):
Yes, sir, god bless.
You have a great day.
Roland Warren (58:02):
All right, take care.
Chris Grainger (58:12):
Bye.
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All right, guys, thank youagain for rolling, for coming on
, absolutely enjoyed having himand just for the wonderful
(58:55):
wisdom, discernment and insightthat he shared.
Hopefully you guys enjoyed ittoo.
The question that of the weekthat we really have been
focusing on is how are youprotecting the vulnerable where
you can?
You can't save them all, butyou can save some.
The word of God has placed you.
What are you doing toproactively be on the offense as
(59:18):
well as the defense of others?
Guys again, go to the website,the lion withinus to get started
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Go to the Bible app.
Open up the Bible app right now.
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(01:00:01):
Come back on Friday.
Look forward to hanging outwith you then.
We'll see you then and justkeep unleashing the lion within.
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