September 10, 2025 • 62 mins
What if the battle with pornography isn't about willpower, but about healing deep wounds? Justin Smith discovered this truth the hard way when his wife gave him an ultimatum: "Get your crap together or get out of the house." That moment became the catalyst for a healing journey that would eventually help countless other men.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Grainger (00:03):
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast
serving Christian men who arehungry to be the leaders God
intends you to be.
I'm your host, chris Granger.
Let's jump in.
All right, fellas, it is meatepisode time.
Let's get into it, okay?
So the scripture of the weekthis week is 2 Corinthians 10, 3
.
It says, for though we walk inthe flesh, we do not war
according to the flesh.
(00:23):
So, fellas, take some time, goback and listen to that
spiritual kickoff episode wherewe unpack that verse at length
to give you ideas on how you cansimplify and apply that to your
life, because it's not justabout having head knowledge,
it's about actually moving thatinto application.
That's what it's all about.
And if you enjoy the spiritualkickoff episodes Monday through
Friday, we do those within ourLion Within Us community and the
(00:47):
best part is we do those forfree.
So go check out thelionwithinus, get connected, start it with
your daily spiritual kickoffeach and every day, to get that
little boost that you're lookingfor All right.
Now for this episode, we'rebringing in Justin Smith.
He's the founder of Beyond theLine Ministries and he had a
passion on his heart, fellas.
(01:07):
His passion was to see menbreak free from pornography and
any unwanted sexual behavior.
He had a personal pain storyhe's going to talk about and how
he can.
Ultimately, he relates to somany guys that are just battling
this on a daily basis and he'shelping them renew their minds
(01:28):
to get their hearts right withthe Lord and to really dig down
into the wounds that, uh, thatare really at the core of what
pull us away from what God'scalled us.
And so if you're strugglingwith pornography, or if you know
someone who is, or or even ifyou don't, you feel like you've
overcome this, you're going tofind out some areas in this
(01:49):
conversation that you may beable to personally plug into to
serve someone who is goingthrough this struggle right now.
So I'm excited for thisconversation Hopefully enjoy it
with my buddy, justin Smith.
Well, justin, how are you doingtoday?
Today, man?
Justin Smith (02:07):
ready to rock and roll, chris, I'm good that's it,
brother.
Chris Grainger (02:10):
That's it.
I'm looking forward to diggingin with you, for sure.
I mean, I always like startingfun on our podcast.
Maybe just share somethingabout you that maybe not many
people might not know.
Justin Smith (02:25):
I'm almost 40 years old and one of my favorite
things to do is to take a hotbath.
Oh man, is there anythingbetter than just the hot water?
Just just the therapy, thesound, the just calmness of a
(02:46):
hot bath?
That's there you go, I hear youI don't share with everybody.
But there you go.
Chris Grainger (02:54):
That's right, and that's it, bro.
You're the first one to go thatroute, so I hear you, man,
that's awesome.
No shame, no gain, that's it.
Justin Smith (03:01):
I got to get a hot tub one day.
Chris Grainger (03:05):
That'll be on the bucket list.
There you go, buddy, there yougo.
Well, man, I I know we gotconnected.
You have some, uh, a greatministry, some things.
You're really it's, you'rereally your heart's in such a
just on fire for the lord.
You started this thing calledbeyond the line ministry, man.
So let's just share a littlebit like the genesis of it.
How did it get started?
Justin Smith (03:26):
yeah, uh, I'd say, getting started takes you all
the way back to childhood andteenage years, where pornography
and sexual sin comes into life.
Because who sets out graduatinghigh school to go, yeah, I'm
gonna go ministry helping guysbattle out of pornography and
sexual sin?
(03:46):
That's, that's not what youwrite on the graduation card,
Right?
But you know, my brokenness andmy sins, even in my teenage
years, eventually led that,paired with a heart to serve God
, as a platform to open upbeyond the line ministries, but
on a smaller scale.
It actually 10 years ago wouldbe when it probably started,
(04:08):
because that's when I started myhealing recovery.
So it was August of 2015.
That would be the moment wheremy wife told me get your crap
together or get out of the housebecause the pornography I just
couldn't be victorious over it.
I mean I love Christ't.
I couldn't be victorious overit.
I mean I love Christ and I wasserving him, helping do men's
ministry, leading stuff.
(04:30):
But I was just so broken onthis topic it was like my my
go-to binky or my comfy blanketanytime, in pain, and I didn't
even realize it.
So 10 years ago I started ahealing journey that God brought
some amazing men, some amazingministries, amazing material to
(04:53):
help me start to unpack what wasgoing on.
And, um, at that point I wasselling geothermal heating and
cooling systems, which, which isactually pretty cool.
But my heart was to do ministryBefore that, when I lived in
Maryland, I worked with CampusCrusade and I loved going to the
(05:14):
college campus at theUniversity of Maryland and
sharing the gospel.
My heart is to see people cometo a loving relationship with
Christ, to realize that thatbrokenness inside of them.
You're not going to fill itwith anything.
And Jesus is saying hey, turnfrom that, Come to me, I will
(05:35):
give you peace, I'll give youforgiveness.
That was my heart.
But then my sin kind of got inthe way of executing that.
Sin kind of got in the way ofexecuting that.
And so, after my wife called meout so firm of her but also
incredibly gracious to walkalongside me in my brokenness I
(05:55):
began to get healing and alongthe way God started to marry the
two of a heart to serve him inministry.
And my story, Like this, ispersonal to me and millions of
men.
But he used my brokenness toopen up, eventually be on the
(06:15):
line.
And that was the goal ofhelping guys, Cause when I
started I was like Chris,there's, there's no way.
I remember telling the firstgroup leader I walked through
some material with, if thisdoesn't work, like I'm, I'm
toast, Like I, I can't bevictorious over this.
I've tried, I've tried and overthat process I started to find
(06:37):
freedom and I was like I havethat heart to take that to men,
Cause if God can free me, he canfree anybody.
And that was something I had torealize was true.
And along the way, with somesupport from my wife and some
brothers, I realized, wait, aminute.
I've always had like anentrepreneurial mindset.
(06:59):
You know my dad's anentrepreneur and, like you know,
the just working for someone Ialways was like I liked being
able to create and liketrailblaze.
So God really put all thesedifferent pieces and aspects
together for me to do ministryand specific to this topic.
(07:21):
So that's a little bit of thebackstory behind.
Chris Grainger (07:24):
Yeah, kind of came about.
That's awesome, man.
So I mean it sounds like youhad a a pretty strong Christian
foundation to start with, so didyou grow up in the church?
Justin Smith (07:34):
I grew up, uh, like church Okay.
So, um, mom and dad did a, dida really, really awesome job
loving on me, guiding me.
We grew up Catholic, so I had anice foundational.
I knew a lot of stories and alot of concepts of Christ, but
(07:56):
it was about when I was 16, Ireally started having some like
deeper questions, which makessense for a lot of teenagers.
And it wasn't about like goingto, you know, Catholic church or
church.
It was really like who is Jesusand what is this hope that he
(08:16):
is offering?
And so at 16, I 16, or 17, 17,maybe I gave my life to Christ
in March of 2003.
And that's what I was lookingfor.
I was like, wait a minute.
No, Nissan 300ZX like I got wasgoing to make me happy.
(08:37):
No, girlfriend.
No, playing football, no part.
I'm like there's an emptinessas a teenager and I knew Christ
was the solution.
So I started walking with Jesusand I got plugged in with Young
Life.
And then from there, God justopened up.
You know a trajectory for me togrow spiritually, Brought some
good men into my life.
(08:57):
I had my dad and I had othermen, but God was faithful to
bring mentorship along my pathfor me, which bled into even
Beyond the Line and how weoperate.
Chris Grainger (09:07):
Right, right, I'm curious though.
All right, so kind of tyinginto Beyond the Line.
So you got through theChristian Foundation, you
confessed your life, Like whatwas the pinhole man that started
the trail down pornography,pornography down that
destructive path?
Right, it never starts withhardcore porn.
(09:28):
Like what, what does it startwith?
Was it a magazine?
Like what was it that the inputpoint?
Uh, point that, uh, that youcan look.
When you think back and reflecton that, you can say, yeah,
that's where things began tounravel yeah, I, I know exactly
where it started it was.
Justin Smith (09:45):
I was in fourth grade, so I was probably about
four years fourth grade I was inum, so about 10 years old, went
over a friend's house and, uh,lived across the street and, um,
he had older brothers and whatthey weren't.
They weren't believers, very,very you know.
(10:06):
I think he would even admitlittle dysfunctional multiple
marriages, kind of put alltogether.
And so at his house I gotexposed to pornography from his
older brother's material and Ican still vaguely remember that
picture.
That's how much that firstexposure hits.
(10:26):
And so it's kind of like inbusiness when you get a product
to the market, first it stampsand everyone you know that's
what is the standard.
So from there that like openedit up and then from there you
know we're talking mid-90sSports Illustrated swimsuit
(10:47):
issues.
You know, oh yeah, inserts fromyou know, kmart and JCPenney
that you know.
For younger people, hearingthis, you're going to be like,
what is he talking about?
But if you're over 30, you'llprobably have a concept here,
like the internet wasn't hereyet, and so this was the
exposure.
And then the internet hit aboutwhen I was 13, 14 years old.
(11:12):
We moved past dial-up to youknow, I guess, high-speed
internet where it didn't tieyour phone line up, and my
parents made a mistake, not amalicious mistake, but they put
a computer in the basement and ateenage boy, my parents didn't
know what the internet was goingto entail and how destructive
(11:33):
it could be.
But my teenage years, that wasjust there.
And from there going throughteenage emotions, you know,
dealing with rejection, feelinglike a failure.
So I'm dyslexic and I have ADHDand so school was a bear for me
.
So as you're going throughschool and you're struggling,
(11:56):
all of a sudden you can take onbrokenness and go man, I'm a
failure, I suck, I'm stupid,like all these things that are
deep core wounds.
Well, pornography is theperfect outlet, because I go and
watch pornography, I don't feelstupid, I don't feel inadequate
, I don't feel like a failure.
There was this perfect married,dysfunctional solution that my
(12:20):
teenage years got got hit withmy teenage years got got hit
with, and so that's a common one.
Chris Grainger (12:30):
Though, man, I mean it gets exposed.
I mean you didn't go to I'msure you probably went over that
buddy's house to play, right, Imean just your fourth grade,
and next thing you know, it justhits you between the eyes and
that's that's a common area.
That's why we have to like.
For me as a parent man, I'msuper probably I'll probably go
too far at times on wherethey're going to go spend the
night, you know, and I just, Idon't know, you're not, you're
(12:54):
not going too far at all.
Justin Smith (12:55):
Like you know, then, I think one of the top
places where sexual abuse occursis during sleepovers.
So, and it's not like usually amalicious completely, but
you're putting your kids invulnerable spots like, right, my
oldest daughter is going tolike a christian summer camp in
in about a week and my brain ischurning and it's like what's
(13:18):
the safety, what's all thethings that are there to protect
?
And so you're not going too far, especially in today's age,
because average age of exposuretoday to hardcore pornography
for children is eight years old.
Right, right.
We're not talking about, like Isaw, a naked woman picture, you
(13:44):
know, like our grandpa's saw orhad on their toolbox, kind of
thing.
That's right, that's right.
A hardcore video is what eightyear olds are on average getting
exposed to now, whichcompletely distorts and jacks
the brain up.
The brain can't humble it atthat age.
Chris Grainger (14:04):
Right, Right, Right, yeah, and I mean.
And then you think, well, wejust got to get plugged into the
church, it's a safe place.
And then you start looking atsome of the church statistics
and it's even scarier at times,like of how infiltrated
pornography is just in thecongregation, particularly among
(14:25):
men.
Now the women numbers I've beenseeing lately they're on a huge
surge, unfortunately.
But yeah, it's not like you'reimmune to it just because you're
in church.
Justin Smith (14:34):
Yeah, no, I mean I'd say outside of the church.
I mean you're looking at a clipof probably 90-plus percent of
men can't go 30 days withoutlooking up something
inappropriate acting out in somesexual capacity In the church.
It's a smidgen better, it'sprobably about upper 70s, about
(14:55):
80 percent.
That's extremely frustratingbecause you're like, you have
the Holy Spirit.
You can execute the fruit ofthe Spirit, which is
self-control.
But most guys don't have anyability to do that because
they've been trapped in this for5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years and
they have no idea what the rootis or why they keep going back.
(15:18):
They're like Lord, I love you,just like Paul in Romans 7 and 8
.
He does what he doesn't want todo, but what he wants to do he
can't do.
What most guys don't realize is,as they go through a healing
process, the thing that drivesthem are some really deep broken
spots inside their soul, but weusually don't do a good job of
(15:42):
helping guys get down to touchand address those, because
that's the undercurrent that'sdriving the whole ship.
It's not that you're just thathorny or you have that high of a
sex drive.
I love when guys tell me thatbecause it's like, well, I just
have a high sex drive.
I'm like, no, you don't.
Like statistically, you havingthat is so rare.
(16:03):
Like statistically, you havingthat is so rare.
You have a pain medicationproblem that you've been coping
with since you were 12 years oldand now you're 43.
Now you're 32, 27.
Now it's catching up with youand we got to deal with it.
Chris Grainger (16:22):
Right, right, 100%, bro, 100%.
We're going to take our firstbreak, guys, and we'll be right
back when we dig into moreBeyond the Line and how Justin
is serving others.
I've got something big to share.
We're making a major shiftbecause we know the battle is
real and it's time more men hadaccess to the support they need.
For too long, guys have beentrying to carry the weight alone
(16:45):
pressure at work, tension athome, wounds from the past in a
world that demands strength butoffers no place to rest.
We see it, we've lived it, andthat's exactly why we built our
community.
It's a stronghold, a placewhere warriors can find rest,
truth and a band of brothersstanding beside them.
And starting now, we're makingit easier than ever to step in.
(17:06):
We've lowered the barrier tojust $15.99 a month.
That means, for less than thecost of a drive-thru lunch, you
can join a brotherhood that'scentered on Christ and built for
growth.
Inside you'll find access toour daily spiritual kickoffs
every Monday through Friday, ourLion Lunches, our Bible Studies
, our Friday Forge Gatheringsall that and so much more.
(17:27):
Every man needs a stronghold,and you don't have to fight
alone.
If you've been waiting for theright time to jump in this is it
?
Go to thelionwithinus and jointhe community and see for
yourself what happens when irontruly sharpens iron.
Truly sharpens iron.
All right, man.
(17:47):
So let's, let's get into it solike, elaborate the core of
beyond the line, because I meanthere's there's lots of
different programs andinitiatives and books and
there's it's resource overload.
Sometimes you know when youstart looking at even combating
it and it's some good stuff outthere.
So what differentiates you andhow you go about doing it and
serving you know the guys whoare hurting in this area.
Justin Smith (18:07):
Yeah, well one.
I think that resource, resourceoverload is a huge praise as
you go back 20 years the onlything every man's battle might
have been the first and onlyyeah fred, yeah man, what a
great yeah, like, so we've gonefrom that and say 2000.
(18:29):
So in 25 years now we're talkingabout neuroscience, now we're
talking about brokenness, nowwe're talking about repentance
and how they all pair togetherthe resources today.
Praise god for them.
But you do make a good point.
You're like where do I start?
And so one thing I have lovedseeing guys in this recovery
(18:50):
world in different ministries.
I have seen them playincredibly well together.
Okay, so it's not competitive.
Yeah, yeah, like you thinkabout the business world, like
you know, coke, pepsi, che, ford, toyota, like there's this
competition to steal the F-150owner, to get them to the tundra
(19:11):
, and you know, like that's notthe recovery world, it's let's
get guys to a spot where theycan start healing.
And guys, just like you know,stick with pickup trucks, trucks
.
There's lots of different stylepickup trucks that meet
different needs.
Like if you're hauling concreteblocks for work, you're not
(19:31):
buying a ford maverick or ahonda ridgeline.
You've got an f-250 orsomething like that.
If you just need something totake the kayaks and the bike,
you could probably get a h HondaRidgeline or a Maverick, like
it depends on what you need.
And so I've worked with someamazing ministries I mean Pure
Desire out in Oregon or they'reactually moving to Nashville now
(19:54):
.
But like they're, they'rephenomenal, be Broken Ministries
, faithful and True Bravehearts,like there's so many amazing
ministries that are gatheringguys together and if you think
about the magnitude, if 70 ofthe church men in the church
can't go 30 days without actingout, there's no shortage of men
(20:19):
that need help.
So it's not a competition oflike, oh, supply and demand,
yeah, it's not a small market,right, it, it's tapping into the
market to help them realizethere's resources, there's help,
there's hope.
But we have this big, hugebarrier called shame.
And inside the church andoutside the church like, shame
(20:42):
is a powerful tool the enemyuses.
Sure, I can't bring this out,it'll ruin everything, and so
they just keep trapped in it.
But I tell guys one day, when Iwrite a book, this is going to
be a chapter.
It's called biddle whiff, bringit to light, win the fight.
If you, if you don't bringstuff to light, it will
(21:05):
eventually destroy you.
And my wife was just telling methis morning of someone she
knew from childhood.
Married five kids, he's beencheating on her their entire
marriage and it's like I, theirmarriage is probably toast
outside of a genuine miraclefrom the Holy Spirit and intense
(21:28):
healing.
But if he had brought that outafter the first mistake there
would have been a drasticallyhigher chance of that marriage
healing, of that marriagehealing.
But we hold it in in secret andwe give our flesh and our
(21:48):
secretness the power and itnever turns out good.
And so the resources and toolsat Beyond the Line.
I've kind of taken multipleaspects.
I mentioned the men that havepoured into me, you know, when I
started walking with Christ andI learned the importance of
having godly men that are a stepahead of me, I have an 11 year
(22:09):
old and starting to realize thatwait, teenage years are are
coming, you know, and theconversations we're having with
her are very different than whatwe're doing with our three year
old, very different than whatwe're doing with our
three-year-old.
And so my wife and I have beenjust navigating how there's this
(22:29):
little girl and this little boyand they're at different
chapters in life, so they havedifferent needs.
Same thing with Beyond the Line.
I had different needs.
I needed mentorship and I alsoneeded structure.
My daughter's needingmentorship and guidance at 11.
My three-year-old he needsstructure, like they both need
(22:51):
God's love.
They both need my love, theirmom's love.
But what we've done at Beyondthe Line is we've paired
mentorship with the structure ofsmall group work, and a lot of
ministries will do small groupwork and a lot of ministries
will do, you know, mentorshiptype stuff.
So I just paired them together.
So what I did was you need, ina group work, to know that
(23:15):
you're not alone.
So when you get plugged in,you've got five, six, seven
other brothers all across thecountry, sometimes across the
world.
They're in the same spot so youcan be open and go.
Yeah, I relapsed withpornography because you're in a
group of guys that are tacklingit together.
(23:35):
They're not stocked whileyou're there, right, and from
there you pair that with someonethat's been a step down the
road ahead of you.
You get guidance Back to my11-year-old.
Like I'm starting to ask menthat are older than me that have
raised children, how do I dothis?
Like I've got almost a teenagegirl.
(23:57):
I'm starting to see some of theemotions and push back.
How do I do this?
Well, I'm not going to ask mybuddy that's got a six-month-old
.
I'm going to ask the guy thatraised four kids and his kids
are all in their late 20s nowand he goes listen, here's where
I was too firm, here's where Ididn't give them enough freedom,
(24:20):
I smothered them, or here'swhere I could go back and go.
Yeah, I wouldn't have done that.
I want to glean from the menthat have walked that and the
same thing with Beyond the Lineis me and some other guys I have
coming on to help, just leadand facilitate.
They've walked the journey.
They know about setting upboundaries, they know about the
healing process with their wives.
(24:42):
It's giving them the, the hey,don't step here, let's step over
here, because if you do this,this is going to be a landmine
over here.
So pairing small group andmentorship is really the essence
of, uh, what we've kind ofcreated okay, that's awesome man
.
Chris Grainger (25:01):
So I mean so it's a program set up.
How are are you finding theguys right now?
I mean, is it?
Do you have a big marketingthat's out?
Are you working with churches?
How are guys finding whatyou're doing?
Justin Smith (25:15):
That's a great question and so, um, I don't
know.
I have some video coursescoming out, hopefully later this
year.
Uh, we launched like a workbookjournal that actually will be
going live here.
Like the max guys, they canwalk with the max probably 15.
And that would be like leadingtwo groups and them doing like a
(25:49):
biweekly mentorship callone-on-one.
Chris Grainger (25:52):
So that's a one-on-one call, okay.
Justin Smith (25:54):
Yeah.
So every guy I work with,almost every guy, they're in a
group structure together everyweek an hour and a half to two
hours every week working throughcoursework.
Okay, and then they're doing aone-on-one call with me.
Some are an hour, some are ahalf hour, some meet every week,
depending on you know how bigthe fire in their life is, kind
(26:15):
of thing, life is kind of thing.
But they're getting one-on-onetime to process stuff deeper and
process clinically based,biblically backed material for
them to work on their healing.
So, okay, it's not like, hey,here's a coursework, go just do
it at your leisure.
(26:35):
They, those are out there and Iwould say they're a good first
start.
But until you step intocommunity and accountability
you're not going to actuallyheal completely.
You can't do this in isolationon a coursework, by yourself,
with no one looking into yourlife.
(26:56):
And that's where I try to getguys is you have a mentor and
you have brothers looking intoyour life.
You're not going 48 hourswithout checking in with someone
, because you've gone some guys48 years without checking in.
So we got to break that.
Chris Grainger (27:15):
So so the weekly , the coursework they're working
through.
I'm sure that's brings a lot ofvalue.
And then he says it.
So you're having thatone-on-one conversation Every
other.
This is an intensive type,hands-on approach.
How long?
What's, what's the duration ofthis where you feel like you're
getting guys, I'm sure it'sdifferent.
For for, for the healingjourney, for it's, it's not just
(27:38):
well, six weeks in your heel.
That was probably a lotdifferent type of scenario.
Justin Smith (27:42):
Yeah, if you look up into clinical counseling and
treatment facilities foraddiction like alcohol or drugs,
the stats, you can even lookinsurance companies up.
The longer they stay inrecovery, the better chance they
have of truly being free fromit.
So like when you see like acelebrity go to a seven, 10 day
(28:09):
or 30 day rehab, most likelythey're going to be back, they
might clean it up for a littlebit.
And so the longer we stay, keepa guy in recovery, the better.
So with the coursework and withmentorship at minimum, it's a
year that I take guys through.
So I tell guys up front I'mlike, look, if you want
(28:31):
something that's not committedor you're like praying for the
quick fix, it's, it's not here,you're not going to find it
anywhere.
Really like you've got decadesof brokenness, all the way back
to the seven-year-old boy thathis dad yelled at him in front
of his brothers and like we'redigging all the way back there
(28:55):
and you can't do that in sixweeks but you're gonna need.
In my journey and most people'sjourney it takes two to five
years to break free out ofsexual sin, not break free in
terms of like the behavior, thebehavior truly.
What they say is, you know acouple months you truly can be
(29:16):
done with the behavior.
But the brokenness and thehealing for most men takes two
to five years.
It took me about two and a halfyears before I was truly like,
I feel healthy, and that was alot of work.
Every week every thursday Idrove an hour almost to go to a
group work and wow, I, that wasthe best best I ever did.
(29:41):
I was actually going back tocollege at the same time and we
had our second child and I waslike I can't, I can't do both.
And I said I'm done.
I scrapped the college thingagain Cause I was like it's the
point of getting a collegedegree if I'm still trapped in
sexual sin?
And I'm to this day stillgrateful for that wisdom.
Chris Grainger (30:05):
I had there.
That's awesome.
I am curious for the guyslistening, justin, because I've
had this counsel from others andI'm just curious where you're
at with it.
So you recognize that this isan area you need to be
addressing as a guy and you wantto take a path forward and you
find Beyond the Line Ministrieslike yep, I'm going all in.
(30:27):
At what point do you bring thisto light if it hasn't been
brought already to your spouse,to your girlfriend, to your
significant other?
Cause I've heard lots ofdifferent approaches on this, so
do they get to talk to themfirst?
Are you working this on theside without them knowing, like,
(30:48):
walk, walk that guy who may bewrestling with, like how do you
actually do this now?
Justin Smith (30:54):
Yeah that that.
That's a tough question To thatguy that's wrestling with that.
I'm going to tell him it'scoming out.
Just face that reality.
We see in Galatians 6, 7, and8,.
God says he will not be mocked,for what a man sows, he will
reap.
Whether he sows to the spirit,he'll reap life and peace.
(31:16):
Sows to the flesh, he'll reapdestruction.
Spirit, he'll reap life andpeace.
So the flesh don't reapdestruction.
When we sow seeds into theground later in life, they're
coming out and for a lot of us,that reality of what that we've
sown popping up just like aharvest.
You know, for a farmer, we'regonna hit that our actions, our
(31:38):
sin, it's going to come up.
How we handle it coming up canhelp heal our marital
relationships or it can make ita lot more challenging.
So just that reality of for aguy to go, you're going to have
to face the music at some time.
(31:58):
For a guy to go, you're goingto have to face the music at
some time.
Now, when it comes to like guysand how they do that, I've seen
lots of guys.
The Holy Spirit just convictsthem.
They run home and they justvomit everything or so they
think everything all over theirwife.
That's a horrible decision.
Your poor bride like you'vejust blindsided her and you're
(32:21):
making yourself look like thevictim getting all this out.
It's like carrying like abackpack of bricks and you just
took it and you just dumped allthe bricks on top of her and now
she's all beat up and coveredin brick dust.
That's the last thing we wantto do.
Brick dust that's the lastthing we want to do.
(32:43):
So most people would recommend,like if your sin comes out and
you're caught, you you're kindof in a different spot.
You're in like firefighter mode.
That's right.
If you're sitting there withconviction you're going to
blindside your wife.
I would bring people into thatequation because you're going to
stab your wife in the stomachwith this, like you're going to
(33:05):
hurt her because sin has aneffect.
The goal, I tell guys, is thatI'm only stabbing her one time.
The last thing we want to do isrepeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.
We want to.
If we can be one stab, we can'tgo back and redo the sin that's
(33:28):
already been done.
But if we can limit the damageand help her healing process and
give her the chance to be ableto heal correctly from your
mistakes and help your marriageheal.
That's what we're going to gofor.
So I would say, seek counsel,you know, seek correct counsel
(33:48):
too.
And like, make sure it'ssomeone that has an idea of
sexual sin, and some it's achallenge with the church.
Sometimes pastors are amazing,sometimes they're not quite
equipped like to do that.
So make sure you get the rightresources and and I've told guys
(34:11):
too when I have guys reach out,if I'm not a fit to help them,
I'm guiding them exactly towhere they need to go.
Like, if a guy's story is maybea little too much for me and he
needs, like, professionalcounseling and therapy, I'm
guiding him to, if I can, toministries, or, if it's a
(34:34):
certain state I know, to acounselor, or if there's other
ministries that are a better fit.
The goal is to start to gethelp and get healing 100%.
Chris Grainger (34:47):
I love that advice, and Alonso, well, I
haven't heard of the stabberonce.
That makes so much sense,though.
Right, and for the guy outthere, you think you're
considering just word vomitingon her, like please hear justin
and his wisdom right there.
Justin Smith (35:03):
So I really appreciate you taking time to go
through that man yeah, I had umone more nugget on that.
Yeah, I had a guy in a groupone time and, uh, he made some
mistakes earlier in his marriageand he was cheating on his wife
for about six months and thenlike the Lord kind of convicted
(35:25):
him and he stopped, never wentback to it, but he kept it a
secret for 14 years and he justcouldn't deal with it eventually
and he finally shared it withhis wife and I've always used
that picture as a story going.
She said the lies hurt more.
(35:47):
Yeah, and I tell guys that,like she has a chance to heal
from your physical mistake.
But when we start to lie andbuild the lies upon lies upon
lies, trust is broken in a bigway.
So bring it to light, win thefight Right.
Chris Grainger (36:09):
Right, 100%, brother.
Look, we're going to take aquick break.
We'll be right back.
Guys, we're making a big changethat I think you're really
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Let's grow together.
So, justin, I'm super curiousman.
When you start looking back,I'm sure you got some pretty
awesome success stories.
Do any of them?
Obviously, you don't change thenames, but does anything come
(37:36):
to mind, just to give some guysa vision of hope that maybe that
guy's in a dark place right now.
Sometimes just hearing you knowhow others have overcome can be
, you know, pretty inspirational.
So any of your guys have gonework with uh, you know beyond
the line that you feel like man.
That's just a great story of awin.
Justin Smith (37:56):
Yeah.
So there's a couple um let'spick the most vanilla names Jim
and Susan, right, um, and Jim'sstuff popped up and he didn't
even mean to expose it or reallyrealize it and his wife was
like, what is this?
And at that moment he realized,oh, I've got an issue.
(38:20):
We got to deal with it.
They plugged in to do somerecovery work.
They did some counseling and Igot to lead him in a group.
I've never seen a couple do sowell, because they went after it
.
They said let's do, let's dohealing, and they both worked
their part of it her betrayal,his action together and separate
(38:44):
, and it produced amazing fruit.
And it was a great picture oflike, do something, don't just
stuff it down, don't just sweepit under the rug, attack it and
go for it.
So that was.
That was one really coolsuccess story.
Um, I have uh, two more I got.
One was a college guy and thisthis guy was struggling, bad and
(39:11):
, you know, challenging and kindof left when we were done our
coursework.
He was done college too.
So I was doing with a bunch ofcollege guys and he wasn't free.
But I touched base with himabout two years later and he was
on fire for the Lord and he waswalking in freedom and it was a
(39:36):
good picture of like, justcause a guy doesn't click and
get it at that moment Doesn'tmean that work won't click in.
And a little bit of time, whenthe peeing got higher, when the
challenge got, the Holy spiritfinally got ahold of his heart
and he's he's walking in totalfreedom and it's really cool.
And uh.
The last one is uh, he wasactually another college guy,
(40:00):
you know, he's in his mid-20snow, I guess, and he's a
missionary overseas right now.
And one of the things I do withguys is we do what's called a
recovery action plan.
Guys hate this.
They hate it because within thefirst month I make them put
together who needs to know abouta relapse?
(40:23):
What is a relapse, defining it,how it affects them, god,
relationships with others andalso bringing in like a physical
, real consequence to the action.
This is where guys strugglegoing oh, it's just sexual sin,
it's's just pornography.
There's no real consequence.
I'm not hurting anybody, right,right, especially guys that
(40:44):
aren't married.
When we're married, god givesus that ability that I can see
the pain on my wife's face.
But for single guys it's evenharder to realize there's
consequence.
So we implemented someconsequences to help guys
realize this is not pain-free.
If I speed 90 miles an hourthrough a school zone, I'm going
(41:06):
to get busted for a big ticket.
If I don't show up for work fortwo weeks straight, well, on
week three I'm not going to havea job.
There's consequence in life.
And helping guys realize thatthere's consequence in life and
helping guys realize that.
So this young college guy, heuh, his consequence was if he
(41:30):
goes back to destruction.
He'll work his dad on a companyand during the summer he would,
you know, breaks he would workfor his dad, you know do labor
type, contractor stuff and uh,he said I'll work for an entire
day without pay.
And you think about it, acollege guy guy, let's say he
was making 15 bucks.
You say work 10 hours, 150 forsomeone in college you know, if
(41:50):
you're listening to this andyou're running a company making
you know, 150, 200, 000, you'relike no big deal.
150 bucks for a college guy isyeah, and he did that.
He told his dad and his dad'slike fine, okay, I'm not gonna
pay you for that day, and thatwould.
It forever.
Changed the trajectory becausehe realized, wait, my action had
(42:15):
a ripple effect, just like ourrelationship with the lord.
When we dive into sexual sin,it breaks that relationship.
We dive in sexual sin, itbreaks that relationship with
our wives.
Putting tangibleness behind itreally helped him get that
picture, which was really coolthat is really cool, man.
Chris Grainger (42:31):
That is an awesome story.
So I mean, looking on beyondthe line, what's your goals for?
Where do you think is headed?
Justin Smith (42:40):
that's a cool question too.
Um, I'm totally okay withwhatever god leads, um, if later
on videos and it grows and ithelps thousands of men a year,
or if it just grows where it'sme and a dozen other men like me
and we're helping 100 guys ayear.
(43:02):
Whatever God wants to do, Iknow God will take care of
provision and he'll take care ofall the needs, but I just want
to lay it at his feet.
I don't have ambitious goals.
It's not about me producingsome sort of amazing ministry.
It's the stories.
It's.
It's those guys' lives that aretouched.
(43:23):
Because when you help one guy,in reality I'm helping a guy,
I'm not me.
The Lord's helping a guy, he'shelping his wife, a marriage,
you know, two, three, four, fivekids, future generations of
grandkids.
You're breaking fatherlessnessbecause divorce will drop.
You're breaking everythingdysfunctional that we see in our
(43:46):
world when a guy can tackle hissin.
So it's pretty cool to see thatripple effect and whatever God
wants to do, I'm okay with it.
We'll see how it grows.
Chris Grainger (43:59):
It's been the hardest part so far with it.
Justin Smith (44:05):
I think the hardest part is I spoke at a
conference a year and a half ago.
I got to share my testimony.
I was not the keynote speaker,but I got to share my story that
aired out to 20,000 people,20,000 men that were attending
and watching a Christian men'sconference, some in person, some
(44:28):
like they streamed in acrossthe world.
I think the most disappointingthing was from 20,000 men
statistically it's, let's say,70% 20,000 men statistically
it's, let's say 70%, that's14,000 men that didn't make it
30 days without going back topornography or sexually acting
out.
I was like, okay, what do I dowhen I get 800 to 1,000 to 2,000
(44:55):
emails?
And my core team of guys that Ihave with me, kind of like
elders, were like we'll justcross that bridge when it comes
and that bridge never came.
I only got 25 emails total,which, praise God for those guys
that did reach out.
But it's like that's the hardestthing is you know the problems
(45:17):
there, but the shame is so highthat guys won't reach out and
you can even think about likeguys in middle age.
You know their 40s, 50s, likethey know that their diet and
their lack of exercise and allthese things are not good, but
they still won't do anythingabout it.
So that's been the hardestthing, and probably the second
(45:41):
has actually been churches.
A little bit Like if I know 70%of the guys in my congregation,
this is an issue Like why?
Why am I?
Why am I thinking aboutsoftball teams and why am I
thinking about, like you know,how we can do other things, like
(46:03):
because sexual sin bleedsthrough everything his
relationship with God, hisability to serve his wife, love
his wife, his kids.
So to me those are probablybeen the biggest challenges.
But I've also seen God do somecool stuff in men's lives and in
churches.
But I'd like to see that likefloodgate open up.
That'd be cool, that would becool.
Chris Grainger (46:26):
That's an area man.
We're more worried about thesausage biscuit on Saturday
mornings than we are pornographyman and like that's.
That's real talk, though, andthat's that can be tough at
times.
So hats off to you, you know,for for leaning into the hard,
because you're definitely in ain a tough path, but it's a much
needed path for sure.
Yeah for sure.
Awesome brother.
(46:46):
Well, hey look, let's do alightning round with you.
I love to have a little funhere at the end, get the guys to
know you a little bit morepersonally as well.
Fire away, awesome brother.
So hobbies like what do youenjoy doing for fun, buddy.
Justin Smith (47:02):
Well, I've got four little kids, so I'd say my
hobby category is pretty low atthe moment.
Chris Grainger (47:12):
You only pick one at this stage in life, bro.
Justin Smith (47:16):
Yeah, I mean not not really much.
I love when I get a chance, Ilove landscaping like I've done,
like some flowers and trees andbushes around my house, like
nice.
I find that quasi therapeuticbecause you get to see a
beautiful outcome.
Um, I'll play golf with my dad,you know, handful of handful of
(47:37):
times a year.
So that's 39 years old.
I finally beat him this pastyear and he's 67.
And so there?
Chris Grainger (47:46):
you go.
Justin Smith (47:46):
Not a bad shoulder , but I'm just still going to
take the win.
Chris Grainger (47:49):
That's right.
Take the W, bro.
Take the W yeah.
Justin Smith (47:52):
That, um, something on my bucket list.
I guess you could put it in thehobby.
I've never done it.
I want to do one of those epoxylive edge wood tables.
Yeah, man, that's just.
But I get so intimidated.
I kind of need someone to likedo it with me because I don't
(48:12):
have the tools.
But that's a stuff like that.
I like that and construction alittle bit.
That's cool, man, yeah.
Chris Grainger (48:18):
What's the age range of you kids?
Again, I forget 11, 8, 6 and 3.
Yeah, you're, you're, you're,you're head in it bro you're
yeah, that's it.
That's it.
That's awesome, though.
So, um, think about your kids.
They may watch like superheroesand and stuff like that.
So if you had a superpower,justin, which one would you like
(48:38):
to have and how would you useit, man?
Justin Smith (48:41):
Man, that's a pretty good one.
We were just at UniversalStudios and they got all the
superheroes.
Yeah yeah, what would mysuperpower be?
Man, chris, that's, that's a.
That's a good one.
Chris Grainger (49:00):
I'm trying to think all like the marvel type
oh yeah, I know, man there,there's lots of them out there.
Justin Smith (49:06):
I've always randomly, I don't know, and
there's gonna be peoplelistening to this that like,
like oh, he really botched thatup.
But I've always thought gambitwas really cool.
Okay, like how he could I don'teven know what he could do he
like always turn playing cardsor things into explosive objects
(49:28):
.
So right, the ability to turnthings into explosives be cool.
But there you go, iron man hissuit.
I mean, I think iron man'spretty dope, yep, yep yeah,
that's yeah, that's it, brother.
Chris Grainger (49:40):
That's it.
We'll go easier on this one.
How about favorite food, man?
What's your go-to there?
Justin Smith (49:48):
Ooh, my childhood favorite food is, hands down,
mac and cheese.
That's it, and I make it for mykids and I'm like Justin, you
got to watch your carbs, man,but I'm just like shoveling
again.
But as I've gotten older weactually had it last night.
Sushi is like that has becomemy favorite.
(50:12):
Just good sushi.
It lights up the neuroreceptorsin the brain with happy
thoughts.
Chris Grainger (50:21):
That's it, man.
That's it.
That's me and my wife.
When we have a date night, wevery, very often hit a sushi
spot.
Man, it's just.
And she didn't even had nevertried sushi until we got married
.
So now she's like thank you,I'm like, I told you, girl, it's
awesome stuff.
Justin Smith (50:35):
Yeah, same here my wife.
She got me on that train andthat's a great date night too,
like, yeah, like, my wife is aphenomenal cook, like out of
control.
Good, when I married her.
Like my wife, anything shetouches she's a rock star.
Yeah, I had no idea when Imarried her.
She was so cute, she loved theLord.
(50:56):
I had no idea the cooking wasgoing to be like through the
roof.
The going out to eat has been ahuge letdown.
Yeah, you make this better, butsushi she won't make sushi.
So it's like the.
Yeah, that's us, that's it,yeah that's how I feel too.
Chris Grainger (51:17):
That's awesome.
Well, look, when you thinkabout god, justin like, what's
your favorite thing about him?
Justin Smith (51:27):
but I think, when I think back to when I came to
new christ at 16, 17, just Ithink the word that came to me
was hope.
And you know we watched like,and you know we watched like my
wife and I've been.
You know she's been wrestling alot with that.
(51:48):
The flood in texas that justoccurred been tough, man.
Yeah, and you know I waslistening to one pastor, like,
as believers or people, we askwhy, you know, and and I heard
this one pastor say, instead ofasking why, because we're never
going to get the answer to thewhy, ask who.
(52:10):
And for us I have a choice.
I can go God is good, he lovesme.
We're in a fallen world.
Or I can say who is God?
He's wicked and cruel,torturous.
Well, I know my heart as asinful man towards my children.
So I know the heavenly father'sheart towards me is he loves me
(52:33):
, even, like when we see job andhe goes through trials.
Or joseph goes through trials.
Or you know the disciples, howthey lay their life down.
Like that God loves me, nomatter what.
Like that's my hope.
You know, if we place our hopelike, I have everything I've
ever wanted in life A beautiful,amazing wife, four kids.
(52:55):
You know I own two Toyotas themost reliable vehicles on the
earth Like this is amazing.
We have a nice house, gotparents and in-laws that love me
.
I have everything, but it allcan go away.
We have friends that they losea parent, they lose a spouse,
(53:18):
but that hope that I have aneternal security with Christ,
that's like the most beautifulthing.
That deep down inside of myanxieties and brokenness and all
that churns in us as humans, Ican go, lord, I'm going to be
with you after this ride, likesomething along.
(53:39):
That would be probably how Iwould answer that this ride like
something along.
Chris Grainger (53:43):
That would be probably how I would answer that
beautiful answer.
Now let's flip it 180.
What's your least favoritething about the evil one?
It is, that is a 180.
Justin Smith (53:52):
Um.
Least favorite thing he doesn'tfight fair and everything I
walk through with guys.
He didn't attack a full grownman, he attacked a child and we
(54:16):
see that.
I mean you look into sextrafficking, which you put
pornography, that realm, theybleed together and you see the
destructiveness and thedisgustingness of sex
trafficking and childtrafficking.
It makes you want to like ripsomeone's head off.
It makes you so angry, makesyou so angry and knowing that
(54:44):
same concept is how he uses toattack us, to get us on a
trajectory where we're going toget crushed by sexual sin,
whether that's kids gettingmolested, whether that's, you
know, just brokenness of neglect, and they find pornography like
that childhood attack onchildren.
I think that's why a lot ofpeople this the Texas flood like
that camp.
I think that's why a lot ofpeople this the Texas flood like
(55:04):
that camp.
I think that's my kids.
Like I lost both mygrandparents about a year and a
half ago.
I loved them.
They were 97 and 95.
I did not cry very much Like mygrandfather served in World War
II, like he was that old.
But you see children gettinghurt and how the enemy can use
(55:31):
his dominion on this world andhis wickedness on that.
That's probably the hardestthing.
I would say that's it.
Chris Grainger (55:38):
That's it.
Well, bro, you did great in thelightning round.
The last question for you isgoing to be what do you hope
that the guys listening,particularly guys that are
struggling with pornography andbattling what do you hope they
remember the most from ourconversation today?
Justin?
Justin Smith (55:53):
yeah.
Well, I would say twofold,let's do both.
Is we got the guy that spiritof God is stirring in him saying
, hey, listen up, pay attention,I'm talking to you.
And then you got the guy that'slistening to your podcast and
go oh, thank God, I haven'tlooked at pornography 25 years.
We got both these guys.
(56:15):
Let's start with the guy that iswalking in freedom and sexual
sins not affecting his life,especially the guy that has
tasted in the past.
You are free, but seven out of10 of the men that come to your
Bible study are not, and so only7% of churches in America have
(56:38):
anything in place to help guysget tackling sexual sin.
70% of men three quarters arestruggling, but only less than
10% of churches have somethingto do with it.
That's a problem.
So if you're that guy, I wouldencourage you to reach out to me
.
Other ministries that you'veheard of Start acquiring
(56:58):
resources.
Take that step to be bold inyour church, to be a resource
for other men that are trapped.
So, for guys, that spirit ofGod is stirring in them look,
I'm not telling you that likebeyond the line is like some
sort of solution, but itdefinitely can be your first
step, and I promise you, if Ican't give you what you need,
(57:21):
I'm going to guide you toresources that can.
The hardest thing is makingthat first email, making that
first call to break isolation.
So isolation and shame are thetwo tools that the enemy will
use to hold you trapped.
So if you reach out, I've gotthe t--shirt, I've got the scars
(57:43):
, I've got your story.
You know, maybe it's strawberry, vanilla or chocolate ice cream
, but we both have tasted icecream so I can relate and we can
guide you to mentorship andsmall groups or counseling,
where, wherever we need to getyou so you can be free and walk
in freedom.
Chris Grainger (58:03):
Amen, brother, amen.
Where do you want to send theguys, justin, to connect with
you, the wonderful things you'redoing at Beyond the Line?
Justin Smith (58:11):
Yeah, so they can go to beyondthelineministriescom
and there's a contact form downat the bottom.
They can send an email andthat'll come to me.
I can reach out to them and Ilove personalness.
Like I'm going to talk to you,like it's not 50 people, it's
(58:31):
not a recording, it's not avideo.
Like I'm gonna sit here in thissame chair and I'm gonna talk
to you and we're gonna figureout if I can help walk with you,
if I can plug you into a smallgroup and mentorship, or if
there's a better ministry outthere that'll be a fit for you.
We're going to get you the help.
So my encouragement would to beto just reach out, and so
(58:55):
that'd be the thing I wouldleave them with Awesome.
Chris Grainger (58:58):
You guys, you know.
You know the URL.
We'll make sure that's in theshow notes, justin.
It's been great.
Keep doing it, keep pushingback.
I mean, you're in a battle thatis worth fighting, brother, so
hats off to you.
We'll be praying for you andbeyond the line for the future.
Thanks, brother, appreciate it,man.
(59:18):
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(59:41):
Bible studies, lion Lunches,friday Forge and so much more.
Every man needs a strongholdand you don't have to fight
alone.
Join today at thelionwithinusthat's thelionwithinus and get
started today.
All right, guys, I told youthat would be a good one, so be
(01:00:01):
sure to go out and checkJustin's resources there.
The question that we want tothink about as we leave here is
what small compromises have goneunchecked in your life.
Again, no one ever wakes up oneday and you're just completely
addicted to hardcore pornography.
It doesn't happen.
It's small compromises andchecks and bends and weaves and
(01:00:25):
next thing, you know you'rethere, right?
We don't want you to be there,we want to help you.
So if you're, if you'velistened to this entire episode
and you are feeling a conviction, don't just suppress it.
Do something with it, even ifyou just want to head over to
the line within, dot us, connectwith us so we can start helping
you.
We have some pornographyresources as well.
(01:00:47):
Outside of what Justin's doing,justin obviously he's 100
percent focused on that we dohave a pornography.
I'm just a guy dealing withpornography.
I think it's called battlingpornography and the Bible app.
So you may want to check outsome of those resources as well,
but we're leaning into this allthe way, so we need you to just
(01:01:07):
come back and tell us how wecan serve.
Okay, so all those resourcesare found at thelionwithinus.
All right, guys, have a greatday, come back on Friday.
We'll have some good fun,friday tips for you and a couple
of dad jokes.
How about that?
Welcome to the Lion Within Us, a podcast
serving Christian men who arehungry to be the leaders God
intends you to be.
I'm your host, chris Granger.
Let's jump in.
All right, fellas, it is meatepisode time.
Let's get into it, okay?
So the scripture of the weekthis week is 2 Corinthians 10, 3
.
It says, for though we walk inthe flesh, we do not war
according to the flesh.
(00:23):
So, fellas, take some time, goback and listen to that
spiritual kickoff episode wherewe unpack that verse at length
to give you ideas on how you cansimplify and apply that to your
life, because it's not justabout having head knowledge,
it's about actually moving thatinto application.
That's what it's all about.
And if you enjoy the spiritualkickoff episodes Monday through
Friday, we do those within ourLion Within Us community and the
(00:47):
best part is we do those forfree.
So go check out thelionwithinus, get connected, start it with
your daily spiritual kickoffeach and every day, to get that
little boost that you're lookingfor All right.
Now for this episode, we'rebringing in Justin Smith.
He's the founder of Beyond theLine Ministries and he had a
passion on his heart, fellas.
(01:07):
His passion was to see menbreak free from pornography and
any unwanted sexual behavior.
He had a personal pain storyhe's going to talk about and how
he can.
Ultimately, he relates to somany guys that are just battling
this on a daily basis and he'shelping them renew their minds
(01:28):
to get their hearts right withthe Lord and to really dig down
into the wounds that, uh, thatare really at the core of what
pull us away from what God'scalled us.
And so if you're strugglingwith pornography, or if you know
someone who is, or or even ifyou don't, you feel like you've
overcome this, you're going tofind out some areas in this
(01:49):
conversation that you may beable to personally plug into to
serve someone who is goingthrough this struggle right now.
So I'm excited for thisconversation Hopefully enjoy it
with my buddy, justin Smith.
Well, justin, how are you doingtoday?
Today, man?
Justin Smith (02:07):
ready to rock and roll, chris, I'm good that's it,
brother.
Chris Grainger (02:10):
That's it.
I'm looking forward to diggingin with you, for sure.
I mean, I always like startingfun on our podcast.
Maybe just share somethingabout you that maybe not many
people might not know.
Justin Smith (02:25):
I'm almost 40 years old and one of my favorite
things to do is to take a hotbath.
Oh man, is there anythingbetter than just the hot water?
Just just the therapy, thesound, the just calmness of a
(02:46):
hot bath?
That's there you go, I hear youI don't share with everybody.
But there you go.
Chris Grainger (02:54):
That's right, and that's it, bro.
You're the first one to go thatroute, so I hear you, man,
that's awesome.
No shame, no gain, that's it.
Justin Smith (03:01):
I got to get a hot tub one day.
Chris Grainger (03:05):
That'll be on the bucket list.
There you go, buddy, there yougo.
Well, man, I I know we gotconnected.
You have some, uh, a greatministry, some things.
You're really it's, you'rereally your heart's in such a
just on fire for the lord.
You started this thing calledbeyond the line ministry, man.
So let's just share a littlebit like the genesis of it.
How did it get started?
Justin Smith (03:26):
yeah, uh, I'd say, getting started takes you all
the way back to childhood andteenage years, where pornography
and sexual sin comes into life.
Because who sets out graduatinghigh school to go, yeah, I'm
gonna go ministry helping guysbattle out of pornography and
sexual sin?
(03:46):
That's, that's not what youwrite on the graduation card,
Right?
But you know, my brokenness andmy sins, even in my teenage
years, eventually led that,paired with a heart to serve God
, as a platform to open upbeyond the line ministries, but
on a smaller scale.
It actually 10 years ago wouldbe when it probably started,
(04:08):
because that's when I started myhealing recovery.
So it was August of 2015.
That would be the moment wheremy wife told me get your crap
together or get out of the housebecause the pornography I just
couldn't be victorious over it.
I mean I love Christ't.
I couldn't be victorious overit.
I mean I love Christ and I wasserving him, helping do men's
ministry, leading stuff.
(04:30):
But I was just so broken onthis topic it was like my my
go-to binky or my comfy blanketanytime, in pain, and I didn't
even realize it.
So 10 years ago I started ahealing journey that God brought
some amazing men, some amazingministries, amazing material to
(04:53):
help me start to unpack what wasgoing on.
And, um, at that point I wasselling geothermal heating and
cooling systems, which, which isactually pretty cool.
But my heart was to do ministryBefore that, when I lived in
Maryland, I worked with CampusCrusade and I loved going to the
(05:14):
college campus at theUniversity of Maryland and
sharing the gospel.
My heart is to see people cometo a loving relationship with
Christ, to realize that thatbrokenness inside of them.
You're not going to fill itwith anything.
And Jesus is saying hey, turnfrom that, Come to me, I will
(05:35):
give you peace, I'll give youforgiveness.
That was my heart.
But then my sin kind of got inthe way of executing that.
Sin kind of got in the way ofexecuting that.
And so, after my wife called meout so firm of her but also
incredibly gracious to walkalongside me in my brokenness I
(05:55):
began to get healing and alongthe way God started to marry the
two of a heart to serve him inministry.
And my story, Like this, ispersonal to me and millions of
men.
But he used my brokenness toopen up, eventually be on the
(06:15):
line.
And that was the goal ofhelping guys, Cause when I
started I was like Chris,there's, there's no way.
I remember telling the firstgroup leader I walked through
some material with, if thisdoesn't work, like I'm, I'm
toast, Like I, I can't bevictorious over this.
I've tried, I've tried and overthat process I started to find
(06:37):
freedom and I was like I havethat heart to take that to men,
Cause if God can free me, he canfree anybody.
And that was something I had torealize was true.
And along the way, with somesupport from my wife and some
brothers, I realized, wait, aminute.
I've always had like anentrepreneurial mindset.
(06:59):
You know my dad's anentrepreneur and, like you know,
the just working for someone Ialways was like I liked being
able to create and liketrailblaze.
So God really put all thesedifferent pieces and aspects
together for me to do ministryand specific to this topic.
(07:21):
So that's a little bit of thebackstory behind.
Chris Grainger (07:24):
Yeah, kind of came about.
That's awesome, man.
So I mean it sounds like youhad a a pretty strong Christian
foundation to start with, so didyou grow up in the church?
Justin Smith (07:34):
I grew up, uh, like church Okay.
So, um, mom and dad did a, dida really, really awesome job
loving on me, guiding me.
We grew up Catholic, so I had anice foundational.
I knew a lot of stories and alot of concepts of Christ, but
(07:56):
it was about when I was 16, Ireally started having some like
deeper questions, which makessense for a lot of teenagers.
And it wasn't about like goingto, you know, Catholic church or
church.
It was really like who is Jesusand what is this hope that he
(08:16):
is offering?
And so at 16, I 16, or 17, 17,maybe I gave my life to Christ
in March of 2003.
And that's what I was lookingfor.
I was like, wait a minute.
No, Nissan 300ZX like I got wasgoing to make me happy.
(08:37):
No, girlfriend.
No, playing football, no part.
I'm like there's an emptinessas a teenager and I knew Christ
was the solution.
So I started walking with Jesusand I got plugged in with Young
Life.
And then from there, God justopened up.
You know a trajectory for me togrow spiritually, Brought some
good men into my life.
(08:57):
I had my dad and I had othermen, but God was faithful to
bring mentorship along my pathfor me, which bled into even
Beyond the Line and how weoperate.
Chris Grainger (09:07):
Right, right, I'm curious though.
All right, so kind of tyinginto Beyond the Line.
So you got through theChristian Foundation, you
confessed your life, Like whatwas the pinhole man that started
the trail down pornography,pornography down that
destructive path?
Right, it never starts withhardcore porn.
(09:28):
Like what, what does it startwith?
Was it a magazine?
Like what was it that the inputpoint?
Uh, point that, uh, that youcan look.
When you think back and reflecton that, you can say, yeah,
that's where things began tounravel yeah, I, I know exactly
where it started it was.
Justin Smith (09:45):
I was in fourth grade, so I was probably about
four years fourth grade I was inum, so about 10 years old, went
over a friend's house and, uh,lived across the street and, um,
he had older brothers and whatthey weren't.
They weren't believers, very,very you know.
(10:06):
I think he would even admitlittle dysfunctional multiple
marriages, kind of put alltogether.
And so at his house I gotexposed to pornography from his
older brother's material and Ican still vaguely remember that
picture.
That's how much that firstexposure hits.
(10:26):
And so it's kind of like inbusiness when you get a product
to the market, first it stampsand everyone you know that's
what is the standard.
So from there that like openedit up and then from there you
know we're talking mid-90sSports Illustrated swimsuit
(10:47):
issues.
You know, oh yeah, inserts fromyou know, kmart and JCPenney
that you know.
For younger people, hearingthis, you're going to be like,
what is he talking about?
But if you're over 30, you'llprobably have a concept here,
like the internet wasn't hereyet, and so this was the
exposure.
And then the internet hit aboutwhen I was 13, 14 years old.
(11:12):
We moved past dial-up to youknow, I guess, high-speed
internet where it didn't tieyour phone line up, and my
parents made a mistake, not amalicious mistake, but they put
a computer in the basement and ateenage boy, my parents didn't
know what the internet was goingto entail and how destructive
(11:33):
it could be.
But my teenage years, that wasjust there.
And from there going throughteenage emotions, you know,
dealing with rejection, feelinglike a failure.
So I'm dyslexic and I have ADHDand so school was a bear for me
.
So as you're going throughschool and you're struggling,
(11:56):
all of a sudden you can take onbrokenness and go man, I'm a
failure, I suck, I'm stupid,like all these things that are
deep core wounds.
Well, pornography is theperfect outlet, because I go and
watch pornography, I don't feelstupid, I don't feel inadequate
, I don't feel like a failure.
There was this perfect married,dysfunctional solution that my
(12:20):
teenage years got got hit withmy teenage years got got hit
with, and so that's a common one.
Chris Grainger (12:30):
Though, man, I mean it gets exposed.
I mean you didn't go to I'msure you probably went over that
buddy's house to play, right, Imean just your fourth grade,
and next thing you know, it justhits you between the eyes and
that's that's a common area.
That's why we have to like.
For me as a parent man, I'msuper probably I'll probably go
too far at times on wherethey're going to go spend the
night, you know, and I just, Idon't know, you're not, you're
(12:54):
not going too far at all.
Justin Smith (12:55):
Like you know, then, I think one of the top
places where sexual abuse occursis during sleepovers.
So, and it's not like usually amalicious completely, but
you're putting your kids invulnerable spots like, right, my
oldest daughter is going tolike a christian summer camp in
in about a week and my brain ischurning and it's like what's
(13:18):
the safety, what's all thethings that are there to protect
?
And so you're not going too far, especially in today's age,
because average age of exposuretoday to hardcore pornography
for children is eight years old.
Right, right.
We're not talking about, like Isaw, a naked woman picture, you
(13:44):
know, like our grandpa's saw orhad on their toolbox, kind of
thing.
That's right, that's right.
A hardcore video is what eightyear olds are on average getting
exposed to now, whichcompletely distorts and jacks
the brain up.
The brain can't humble it atthat age.
Chris Grainger (14:04):
Right, Right, Right, yeah, and I mean.
And then you think, well, wejust got to get plugged into the
church, it's a safe place.
And then you start looking atsome of the church statistics
and it's even scarier at times,like of how infiltrated
pornography is just in thecongregation, particularly among
(14:25):
men.
Now the women numbers I've beenseeing lately they're on a huge
surge, unfortunately.
But yeah, it's not like you'reimmune to it just because you're
in church.
Justin Smith (14:34):
Yeah, no, I mean I'd say outside of the church.
I mean you're looking at a clipof probably 90-plus percent of
men can't go 30 days withoutlooking up something
inappropriate acting out in somesexual capacity In the church.
It's a smidgen better, it'sprobably about upper 70s, about
(14:55):
80 percent.
That's extremely frustratingbecause you're like, you have
the Holy Spirit.
You can execute the fruit ofthe Spirit, which is
self-control.
But most guys don't have anyability to do that because
they've been trapped in this for5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years and
they have no idea what the rootis or why they keep going back.
(15:18):
They're like Lord, I love you,just like Paul in Romans 7 and 8
.
He does what he doesn't want todo, but what he wants to do he
can't do.
What most guys don't realize is,as they go through a healing
process, the thing that drivesthem are some really deep broken
spots inside their soul, but weusually don't do a good job of
(15:42):
helping guys get down to touchand address those, because
that's the undercurrent that'sdriving the whole ship.
It's not that you're just thathorny or you have that high of a
sex drive.
I love when guys tell me thatbecause it's like, well, I just
have a high sex drive.
I'm like, no, you don't.
Like statistically, you havingthat is so rare.
(16:03):
Like statistically, you havingthat is so rare.
You have a pain medicationproblem that you've been coping
with since you were 12 years oldand now you're 43.
Now you're 32, 27.
Now it's catching up with youand we got to deal with it.
Chris Grainger (16:22):
Right, right, 100%, bro, 100%.
We're going to take our firstbreak, guys, and we'll be right
back when we dig into moreBeyond the Line and how Justin
is serving others.
I've got something big to share.
We're making a major shiftbecause we know the battle is
real and it's time more men hadaccess to the support they need.
For too long, guys have beentrying to carry the weight alone
(16:45):
pressure at work, tension athome, wounds from the past in a
world that demands strength butoffers no place to rest.
We see it, we've lived it, andthat's exactly why we built our
community.
It's a stronghold, a placewhere warriors can find rest,
truth and a band of brothersstanding beside them.
And starting now, we're makingit easier than ever to step in.
(17:06):
We've lowered the barrier tojust $15.99 a month.
That means, for less than thecost of a drive-thru lunch, you
can join a brotherhood that'scentered on Christ and built for
growth.
Inside you'll find access toour daily spiritual kickoffs
every Monday through Friday, ourLion Lunches, our Bible Studies
, our Friday Forge Gatheringsall that and so much more.
(17:27):
Every man needs a stronghold,and you don't have to fight
alone.
If you've been waiting for theright time to jump in this is it
?
Go to thelionwithinus and jointhe community and see for
yourself what happens when irontruly sharpens iron.
Truly sharpens iron.
All right, man.
(17:47):
So let's, let's get into it solike, elaborate the core of
beyond the line, because I meanthere's there's lots of
different programs andinitiatives and books and
there's it's resource overload.
Sometimes you know when youstart looking at even combating
it and it's some good stuff outthere.
So what differentiates you andhow you go about doing it and
serving you know the guys whoare hurting in this area.
Justin Smith (18:07):
Yeah, well one.
I think that resource, resourceoverload is a huge praise as
you go back 20 years the onlything every man's battle might
have been the first and onlyyeah fred, yeah man, what a
great yeah, like, so we've gonefrom that and say 2000.
(18:29):
So in 25 years now we're talkingabout neuroscience, now we're
talking about brokenness, nowwe're talking about repentance
and how they all pair togetherthe resources today.
Praise god for them.
But you do make a good point.
You're like where do I start?
And so one thing I have lovedseeing guys in this recovery
(18:50):
world in different ministries.
I have seen them playincredibly well together.
Okay, so it's not competitive.
Yeah, yeah, like you thinkabout the business world, like
you know, coke, pepsi, che, ford, toyota, like there's this
competition to steal the F-150owner, to get them to the tundra
(19:11):
, and you know, like that's notthe recovery world, it's let's
get guys to a spot where theycan start healing.
And guys, just like you know,stick with pickup trucks, trucks
.
There's lots of different stylepickup trucks that meet
different needs.
Like if you're hauling concreteblocks for work, you're not
(19:31):
buying a ford maverick or ahonda ridgeline.
You've got an f-250 orsomething like that.
If you just need something totake the kayaks and the bike,
you could probably get a h HondaRidgeline or a Maverick, like
it depends on what you need.
And so I've worked with someamazing ministries I mean Pure
Desire out in Oregon or they'reactually moving to Nashville now
(19:54):
.
But like they're, they'rephenomenal, be Broken Ministries
, faithful and True Bravehearts,like there's so many amazing
ministries that are gatheringguys together and if you think
about the magnitude, if 70 ofthe church men in the church
can't go 30 days without actingout, there's no shortage of men
(20:19):
that need help.
So it's not a competition oflike, oh, supply and demand,
yeah, it's not a small market,right, it, it's tapping into the
market to help them realizethere's resources, there's help,
there's hope.
But we have this big, hugebarrier called shame.
And inside the church andoutside the church like, shame
(20:42):
is a powerful tool the enemyuses.
Sure, I can't bring this out,it'll ruin everything, and so
they just keep trapped in it.
But I tell guys one day, when Iwrite a book, this is going to
be a chapter.
It's called biddle whiff, bringit to light, win the fight.
If you, if you don't bringstuff to light, it will
(21:05):
eventually destroy you.
And my wife was just telling methis morning of someone she
knew from childhood.
Married five kids, he's beencheating on her their entire
marriage and it's like I, theirmarriage is probably toast
outside of a genuine miraclefrom the Holy Spirit and intense
(21:28):
healing.
But if he had brought that outafter the first mistake there
would have been a drasticallyhigher chance of that marriage
healing, of that marriagehealing.
But we hold it in in secret andwe give our flesh and our
(21:48):
secretness the power and itnever turns out good.
And so the resources and toolsat Beyond the Line.
I've kind of taken multipleaspects.
I mentioned the men that havepoured into me, you know, when I
started walking with Christ andI learned the importance of
having godly men that are a stepahead of me, I have an 11 year
(22:09):
old and starting to realize thatwait, teenage years are are
coming, you know, and theconversations we're having with
her are very different than whatwe're doing with our three year
old, very different than whatwe're doing with our
three-year-old.
And so my wife and I have beenjust navigating how there's this
(22:29):
little girl and this little boyand they're at different
chapters in life, so they havedifferent needs.
Same thing with Beyond the Line.
I had different needs.
I needed mentorship and I alsoneeded structure.
My daughter's needingmentorship and guidance at 11.
My three-year-old he needsstructure, like they both need
(22:51):
God's love.
They both need my love, theirmom's love.
But what we've done at Beyondthe Line is we've paired
mentorship with the structure ofsmall group work, and a lot of
ministries will do small groupwork and a lot of ministries
will do, you know, mentorshiptype stuff.
So I just paired them together.
So what I did was you need, ina group work, to know that
(23:15):
you're not alone.
So when you get plugged in,you've got five, six, seven
other brothers all across thecountry, sometimes across the
world.
They're in the same spot so youcan be open and go.
Yeah, I relapsed withpornography because you're in a
group of guys that are tacklingit together.
(23:35):
They're not stocked whileyou're there, right, and from
there you pair that with someonethat's been a step down the
road ahead of you.
You get guidance Back to my11-year-old.
Like I'm starting to ask menthat are older than me that have
raised children, how do I dothis?
Like I've got almost a teenagegirl.
(23:57):
I'm starting to see some of theemotions and push back.
How do I do this?
Well, I'm not going to ask mybuddy that's got a six-month-old
.
I'm going to ask the guy thatraised four kids and his kids
are all in their late 20s nowand he goes listen, here's where
I was too firm, here's where Ididn't give them enough freedom,
(24:20):
I smothered them, or here'swhere I could go back and go.
Yeah, I wouldn't have done that.
I want to glean from the menthat have walked that and the
same thing with Beyond the Lineis me and some other guys I have
coming on to help, just leadand facilitate.
They've walked the journey.
They know about setting upboundaries, they know about the
healing process with their wives.
(24:42):
It's giving them the, the hey,don't step here, let's step over
here, because if you do this,this is going to be a landmine
over here.
So pairing small group andmentorship is really the essence
of, uh, what we've kind ofcreated okay, that's awesome man
.
Chris Grainger (25:01):
So I mean so it's a program set up.
How are are you finding theguys right now?
I mean, is it?
Do you have a big marketingthat's out?
Are you working with churches?
How are guys finding whatyou're doing?
Justin Smith (25:15):
That's a great question and so, um, I don't
know.
I have some video coursescoming out, hopefully later this
year.
Uh, we launched like a workbookjournal that actually will be
going live here.
Like the max guys, they canwalk with the max probably 15.
And that would be like leadingtwo groups and them doing like a
(25:49):
biweekly mentorship callone-on-one.
Chris Grainger (25:52):
So that's a one-on-one call, okay.
Justin Smith (25:54):
Yeah.
So every guy I work with,almost every guy, they're in a
group structure together everyweek an hour and a half to two
hours every week working throughcoursework.
Okay, and then they're doing aone-on-one call with me.
Some are an hour, some are ahalf hour, some meet every week,
depending on you know how bigthe fire in their life is, kind
(26:15):
of thing, life is kind of thing.
But they're getting one-on-onetime to process stuff deeper and
process clinically based,biblically backed material for
them to work on their healing.
So, okay, it's not like, hey,here's a coursework, go just do
it at your leisure.
(26:35):
They, those are out there and Iwould say they're a good first
start.
But until you step intocommunity and accountability
you're not going to actuallyheal completely.
You can't do this in isolationon a coursework, by yourself,
with no one looking into yourlife.
(26:56):
And that's where I try to getguys is you have a mentor and
you have brothers looking intoyour life.
You're not going 48 hourswithout checking in with someone
, because you've gone some guys48 years without checking in.
So we got to break that.
Chris Grainger (27:15):
So so the weekly , the coursework they're working
through.
I'm sure that's brings a lot ofvalue.
And then he says it.
So you're having thatone-on-one conversation Every
other.
This is an intensive type,hands-on approach.
How long?
What's, what's the duration ofthis where you feel like you're
getting guys, I'm sure it'sdifferent.
For for, for the healingjourney, for it's, it's not just
(27:38):
well, six weeks in your heel.
That was probably a lotdifferent type of scenario.
Justin Smith (27:42):
Yeah, if you look up into clinical counseling and
treatment facilities foraddiction like alcohol or drugs,
the stats, you can even lookinsurance companies up.
The longer they stay inrecovery, the better chance they
have of truly being free fromit.
So like when you see like acelebrity go to a seven, 10 day
(28:09):
or 30 day rehab, most likelythey're going to be back, they
might clean it up for a littlebit.
And so the longer we stay, keepa guy in recovery, the better.
So with the coursework and withmentorship at minimum, it's a
year that I take guys through.
So I tell guys up front I'mlike, look, if you want
(28:31):
something that's not committedor you're like praying for the
quick fix, it's, it's not here,you're not going to find it
anywhere.
Really like you've got decadesof brokenness, all the way back
to the seven-year-old boy thathis dad yelled at him in front
of his brothers and like we'redigging all the way back there
(28:55):
and you can't do that in sixweeks but you're gonna need.
In my journey and most people'sjourney it takes two to five
years to break free out ofsexual sin, not break free in
terms of like the behavior, thebehavior truly.
What they say is, you know acouple months you truly can be
(29:16):
done with the behavior.
But the brokenness and thehealing for most men takes two
to five years.
It took me about two and a halfyears before I was truly like,
I feel healthy, and that was alot of work.
Every week every thursday Idrove an hour almost to go to a
group work and wow, I, that wasthe best best I ever did.
(29:41):
I was actually going back tocollege at the same time and we
had our second child and I waslike I can't, I can't do both.
And I said I'm done.
I scrapped the college thingagain Cause I was like it's the
point of getting a collegedegree if I'm still trapped in
sexual sin?
And I'm to this day stillgrateful for that wisdom.
Chris Grainger (30:05):
I had there.
That's awesome.
I am curious for the guyslistening, justin, because I've
had this counsel from others andI'm just curious where you're
at with it.
So you recognize that this isan area you need to be
addressing as a guy and you wantto take a path forward and you
find Beyond the Line Ministrieslike yep, I'm going all in.
(30:27):
At what point do you bring thisto light if it hasn't been
brought already to your spouse,to your girlfriend, to your
significant other?
Cause I've heard lots ofdifferent approaches on this, so
do they get to talk to themfirst?
Are you working this on theside without them knowing, like,
(30:48):
walk, walk that guy who may bewrestling with, like how do you
actually do this now?
Justin Smith (30:54):
Yeah that that.
That's a tough question To thatguy that's wrestling with that.
I'm going to tell him it'scoming out.
Just face that reality.
We see in Galatians 6, 7, and8,.
God says he will not be mocked,for what a man sows, he will
reap.
Whether he sows to the spirit,he'll reap life and peace.
(31:16):
Sows to the flesh, he'll reapdestruction.
Spirit, he'll reap life andpeace.
So the flesh don't reapdestruction.
When we sow seeds into theground later in life, they're
coming out and for a lot of us,that reality of what that we've
sown popping up just like aharvest.
You know, for a farmer, we'regonna hit that our actions, our
(31:38):
sin, it's going to come up.
How we handle it coming up canhelp heal our marital
relationships or it can make ita lot more challenging.
So just that reality of for aguy to go, you're going to have
to face the music at some time.
(31:58):
For a guy to go, you're goingto have to face the music at
some time.
Now, when it comes to like guysand how they do that, I've seen
lots of guys.
The Holy Spirit just convictsthem.
They run home and they justvomit everything or so they
think everything all over theirwife.
That's a horrible decision.
Your poor bride like you'vejust blindsided her and you're
(32:21):
making yourself look like thevictim getting all this out.
It's like carrying like abackpack of bricks and you just
took it and you just dumped allthe bricks on top of her and now
she's all beat up and coveredin brick dust.
That's the last thing we wantto do.
Brick dust that's the lastthing we want to do.
(32:43):
So most people would recommend,like if your sin comes out and
you're caught, you you're kindof in a different spot.
You're in like firefighter mode.
That's right.
If you're sitting there withconviction you're going to
blindside your wife.
I would bring people into thatequation because you're going to
stab your wife in the stomachwith this, like you're going to
(33:05):
hurt her because sin has aneffect.
The goal, I tell guys, is thatI'm only stabbing her one time.
The last thing we want to do isrepeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.
We want to.
If we can be one stab, we can'tgo back and redo the sin that's
(33:28):
already been done.
But if we can limit the damageand help her healing process and
give her the chance to be ableto heal correctly from your
mistakes and help your marriageheal.
That's what we're going to gofor.
So I would say, seek counsel,you know, seek correct counsel
(33:48):
too.
And like, make sure it'ssomeone that has an idea of
sexual sin, and some it's achallenge with the church.
Sometimes pastors are amazing,sometimes they're not quite
equipped like to do that.
So make sure you get the rightresources and and I've told guys
(34:11):
too when I have guys reach out,if I'm not a fit to help them,
I'm guiding them exactly towhere they need to go.
Like, if a guy's story is maybea little too much for me and he
needs, like, professionalcounseling and therapy, I'm
guiding him to, if I can, toministries, or, if it's a
(34:34):
certain state I know, to acounselor, or if there's other
ministries that are a better fit.
The goal is to start to gethelp and get healing 100%.
Chris Grainger (34:47):
I love that advice, and Alonso, well, I
haven't heard of the stabberonce.
That makes so much sense,though.
Right, and for the guy outthere, you think you're
considering just word vomitingon her, like please hear justin
and his wisdom right there.
Justin Smith (35:03):
So I really appreciate you taking time to go
through that man yeah, I had umone more nugget on that.
Yeah, I had a guy in a groupone time and, uh, he made some
mistakes earlier in his marriageand he was cheating on his wife
for about six months and thenlike the Lord kind of convicted
(35:25):
him and he stopped, never wentback to it, but he kept it a
secret for 14 years and he justcouldn't deal with it eventually
and he finally shared it withhis wife and I've always used
that picture as a story going.
She said the lies hurt more.
(35:47):
Yeah, and I tell guys that,like she has a chance to heal
from your physical mistake.
But when we start to lie andbuild the lies upon lies upon
lies, trust is broken in a bigway.
So bring it to light, win thefight Right.
Chris Grainger (36:09):
Right, 100%, brother.
Look, we're going to take aquick break.
We'll be right back.
Guys, we're making a big changethat I think you're really
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I spent a lot of time thinkingabout our spiritual kickoffs and
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(36:54):
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is not available anywhere else,and now we've removed every
(37:14):
excuse.
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Let's grow together.
So, justin, I'm super curiousman.
When you start looking back,I'm sure you got some pretty
awesome success stories.
Do any of them?
Obviously, you don't change thenames, but does anything come
(37:36):
to mind, just to give some guysa vision of hope that maybe that
guy's in a dark place right now.
Sometimes just hearing you knowhow others have overcome can be
, you know, pretty inspirational.
So any of your guys have gonework with uh, you know beyond
the line that you feel like man.
That's just a great story of awin.
Justin Smith (37:56):
Yeah.
So there's a couple um let'spick the most vanilla names Jim
and Susan, right, um, and Jim'sstuff popped up and he didn't
even mean to expose it or reallyrealize it and his wife was
like, what is this?
And at that moment he realized,oh, I've got an issue.
(38:20):
We got to deal with it.
They plugged in to do somerecovery work.
They did some counseling and Igot to lead him in a group.
I've never seen a couple do sowell, because they went after it
.
They said let's do, let's dohealing, and they both worked
their part of it her betrayal,his action together and separate
(38:44):
, and it produced amazing fruit.
And it was a great picture oflike, do something, don't just
stuff it down, don't just sweepit under the rug, attack it and
go for it.
So that was.
That was one really coolsuccess story.
Um, I have uh, two more I got.
One was a college guy and thisthis guy was struggling, bad and
(39:11):
, you know, challenging and kindof left when we were done our
coursework.
He was done college too.
So I was doing with a bunch ofcollege guys and he wasn't free.
But I touched base with himabout two years later and he was
on fire for the Lord and he waswalking in freedom and it was a
(39:36):
good picture of like, justcause a guy doesn't click and
get it at that moment Doesn'tmean that work won't click in.
And a little bit of time, whenthe peeing got higher, when the
challenge got, the Holy spiritfinally got ahold of his heart
and he's he's walking in totalfreedom and it's really cool.
And uh.
The last one is uh, he wasactually another college guy,
(40:00):
you know, he's in his mid-20snow, I guess, and he's a
missionary overseas right now.
And one of the things I do withguys is we do what's called a
recovery action plan.
Guys hate this.
They hate it because within thefirst month I make them put
together who needs to know abouta relapse?
(40:23):
What is a relapse, defining it,how it affects them, god,
relationships with others andalso bringing in like a physical
, real consequence to the action.
This is where guys strugglegoing oh, it's just sexual sin,
it's's just pornography.
There's no real consequence.
I'm not hurting anybody, right,right, especially guys that
(40:44):
aren't married.
When we're married, god givesus that ability that I can see
the pain on my wife's face.
But for single guys it's evenharder to realize there's
consequence.
So we implemented someconsequences to help guys
realize this is not pain-free.
If I speed 90 miles an hourthrough a school zone, I'm going
(41:06):
to get busted for a big ticket.
If I don't show up for work fortwo weeks straight, well, on
week three I'm not going to havea job.
There's consequence in life.
And helping guys realize thatthere's consequence in life and
helping guys realize that.
So this young college guy, heuh, his consequence was if he
(41:30):
goes back to destruction.
He'll work his dad on a companyand during the summer he would,
you know, breaks he would workfor his dad, you know do labor
type, contractor stuff and uh,he said I'll work for an entire
day without pay.
And you think about it, acollege guy guy, let's say he
was making 15 bucks.
You say work 10 hours, 150 forsomeone in college you know, if
(41:50):
you're listening to this andyou're running a company making
you know, 150, 200, 000, you'relike no big deal.
150 bucks for a college guy isyeah, and he did that.
He told his dad and his dad'slike fine, okay, I'm not gonna
pay you for that day, and thatwould.
It forever.
Changed the trajectory becausehe realized, wait, my action had
(42:15):
a ripple effect, just like ourrelationship with the lord.
When we dive into sexual sin,it breaks that relationship.
We dive in sexual sin, itbreaks that relationship with
our wives.
Putting tangibleness behind itreally helped him get that
picture, which was really coolthat is really cool, man.
Chris Grainger (42:31):
That is an awesome story.
So I mean, looking on beyondthe line, what's your goals for?
Where do you think is headed?
Justin Smith (42:40):
that's a cool question too.
Um, I'm totally okay withwhatever god leads, um, if later
on videos and it grows and ithelps thousands of men a year,
or if it just grows where it'sme and a dozen other men like me
and we're helping 100 guys ayear.
(43:02):
Whatever God wants to do, Iknow God will take care of
provision and he'll take care ofall the needs, but I just want
to lay it at his feet.
I don't have ambitious goals.
It's not about me producingsome sort of amazing ministry.
It's the stories.
It's.
It's those guys' lives that aretouched.
(43:23):
Because when you help one guy,in reality I'm helping a guy,
I'm not me.
The Lord's helping a guy, he'shelping his wife, a marriage,
you know, two, three, four, fivekids, future generations of
grandkids.
You're breaking fatherlessnessbecause divorce will drop.
You're breaking everythingdysfunctional that we see in our
(43:46):
world when a guy can tackle hissin.
So it's pretty cool to see thatripple effect and whatever God
wants to do, I'm okay with it.
We'll see how it grows.
Chris Grainger (43:59):
It's been the hardest part so far with it.
Justin Smith (44:05):
I think the hardest part is I spoke at a
conference a year and a half ago.
I got to share my testimony.
I was not the keynote speaker,but I got to share my story that
aired out to 20,000 people,20,000 men that were attending
and watching a Christian men'sconference, some in person, some
(44:28):
like they streamed in acrossthe world.
I think the most disappointingthing was from 20,000 men
statistically it's, let's say,70% 20,000 men statistically
it's, let's say 70%, that's14,000 men that didn't make it
30 days without going back topornography or sexually acting
out.
I was like, okay, what do I dowhen I get 800 to 1,000 to 2,000
(44:55):
emails?
And my core team of guys that Ihave with me, kind of like
elders, were like we'll justcross that bridge when it comes
and that bridge never came.
I only got 25 emails total,which, praise God for those guys
that did reach out.
But it's like that's the hardestthing is you know the problems
(45:17):
there, but the shame is so highthat guys won't reach out and
you can even think about likeguys in middle age.
You know their 40s, 50s, likethey know that their diet and
their lack of exercise and allthese things are not good, but
they still won't do anythingabout it.
So that's been the hardestthing, and probably the second
(45:41):
has actually been churches.
A little bit Like if I know 70%of the guys in my congregation,
this is an issue Like why?
Why am I?
Why am I thinking aboutsoftball teams and why am I
thinking about, like you know,how we can do other things, like
(46:03):
because sexual sin bleedsthrough everything his
relationship with God, hisability to serve his wife, love
his wife, his kids.
So to me those are probablybeen the biggest challenges.
But I've also seen God do somecool stuff in men's lives and in
churches.
But I'd like to see that likefloodgate open up.
That'd be cool, that would becool.
Chris Grainger (46:26):
That's an area man.
We're more worried about thesausage biscuit on Saturday
mornings than we are pornographyman and like that's.
That's real talk, though, andthat's that can be tough at
times.
So hats off to you, you know,for for leaning into the hard,
because you're definitely in ain a tough path, but it's a much
needed path for sure.
Yeah for sure.
Awesome brother.
(46:46):
Well, hey look, let's do alightning round with you.
I love to have a little funhere at the end, get the guys to
know you a little bit morepersonally as well.
Fire away, awesome brother.
So hobbies like what do youenjoy doing for fun, buddy.
Justin Smith (47:02):
Well, I've got four little kids, so I'd say my
hobby category is pretty low atthe moment.
Chris Grainger (47:12):
You only pick one at this stage in life, bro.
Justin Smith (47:16):
Yeah, I mean not not really much.
I love when I get a chance, Ilove landscaping like I've done,
like some flowers and trees andbushes around my house, like
nice.
I find that quasi therapeuticbecause you get to see a
beautiful outcome.
Um, I'll play golf with my dad,you know, handful of handful of
(47:37):
times a year.
So that's 39 years old.
I finally beat him this pastyear and he's 67.
And so there?
Chris Grainger (47:46):
you go.
Justin Smith (47:46):
Not a bad shoulder , but I'm just still going to
take the win.
Chris Grainger (47:49):
That's right.
Take the W, bro.
Take the W yeah.
Justin Smith (47:52):
That, um, something on my bucket list.
I guess you could put it in thehobby.
I've never done it.
I want to do one of those epoxylive edge wood tables.
Yeah, man, that's just.
But I get so intimidated.
I kind of need someone to likedo it with me because I don't
(48:12):
have the tools.
But that's a stuff like that.
I like that and construction alittle bit.
That's cool, man, yeah.
Chris Grainger (48:18):
What's the age range of you kids?
Again, I forget 11, 8, 6 and 3.
Yeah, you're, you're, you're,you're head in it bro you're
yeah, that's it.
That's it.
That's awesome, though.
So, um, think about your kids.
They may watch like superheroesand and stuff like that.
So if you had a superpower,justin, which one would you like
(48:38):
to have and how would you useit, man?
Justin Smith (48:41):
Man, that's a pretty good one.
We were just at UniversalStudios and they got all the
superheroes.
Yeah yeah, what would mysuperpower be?
Man, chris, that's, that's a.
That's a good one.
Chris Grainger (49:00):
I'm trying to think all like the marvel type
oh yeah, I know, man there,there's lots of them out there.
Justin Smith (49:06):
I've always randomly, I don't know, and
there's gonna be peoplelistening to this that like,
like oh, he really botched thatup.
But I've always thought gambitwas really cool.
Okay, like how he could I don'teven know what he could do he
like always turn playing cardsor things into explosive objects
(49:28):
.
So right, the ability to turnthings into explosives be cool.
But there you go, iron man hissuit.
I mean, I think iron man'spretty dope, yep, yep yeah,
that's yeah, that's it, brother.
Chris Grainger (49:40):
That's it.
We'll go easier on this one.
How about favorite food, man?
What's your go-to there?
Justin Smith (49:48):
Ooh, my childhood favorite food is, hands down,
mac and cheese.
That's it, and I make it for mykids and I'm like Justin, you
got to watch your carbs, man,but I'm just like shoveling
again.
But as I've gotten older weactually had it last night.
Sushi is like that has becomemy favorite.
(50:12):
Just good sushi.
It lights up the neuroreceptorsin the brain with happy
thoughts.
Chris Grainger (50:21):
That's it, man.
That's it.
That's me and my wife.
When we have a date night, wevery, very often hit a sushi
spot.
Man, it's just.
And she didn't even had nevertried sushi until we got married
.
So now she's like thank you,I'm like, I told you, girl, it's
awesome stuff.
Justin Smith (50:35):
Yeah, same here my wife.
She got me on that train andthat's a great date night too,
like, yeah, like, my wife is aphenomenal cook, like out of
control.
Good, when I married her.
Like my wife, anything shetouches she's a rock star.
Yeah, I had no idea when Imarried her.
She was so cute, she loved theLord.
(50:56):
I had no idea the cooking wasgoing to be like through the
roof.
The going out to eat has been ahuge letdown.
Yeah, you make this better, butsushi she won't make sushi.
So it's like the.
Yeah, that's us, that's it,yeah that's how I feel too.
Chris Grainger (51:17):
That's awesome.
Well, look, when you thinkabout god, justin like, what's
your favorite thing about him?
Justin Smith (51:27):
but I think, when I think back to when I came to
new christ at 16, 17, just Ithink the word that came to me
was hope.
And you know we watched like,and you know we watched like my
wife and I've been.
You know she's been wrestling alot with that.
(51:48):
The flood in texas that justoccurred been tough, man.
Yeah, and you know I waslistening to one pastor, like,
as believers or people, we askwhy, you know, and and I heard
this one pastor say, instead ofasking why, because we're never
going to get the answer to thewhy, ask who.
(52:10):
And for us I have a choice.
I can go God is good, he lovesme.
We're in a fallen world.
Or I can say who is God?
He's wicked and cruel,torturous.
Well, I know my heart as asinful man towards my children.
So I know the heavenly father'sheart towards me is he loves me
(52:33):
, even, like when we see job andhe goes through trials.
Or joseph goes through trials.
Or you know the disciples, howthey lay their life down.
Like that God loves me, nomatter what.
Like that's my hope.
You know, if we place our hopelike, I have everything I've
ever wanted in life A beautiful,amazing wife, four kids.
(52:55):
You know I own two Toyotas themost reliable vehicles on the
earth Like this is amazing.
We have a nice house, gotparents and in-laws that love me
.
I have everything, but it allcan go away.
We have friends that they losea parent, they lose a spouse,
(53:18):
but that hope that I have aneternal security with Christ,
that's like the most beautifulthing.
That deep down inside of myanxieties and brokenness and all
that churns in us as humans, Ican go, lord, I'm going to be
with you after this ride, likesomething along.
(53:39):
That would be probably how Iwould answer that this ride like
something along.
Chris Grainger (53:43):
That would be probably how I would answer that
beautiful answer.
Now let's flip it 180.
What's your least favoritething about the evil one?
It is, that is a 180.
Justin Smith (53:52):
Um.
Least favorite thing he doesn'tfight fair and everything I
walk through with guys.
He didn't attack a full grownman, he attacked a child and we
(54:16):
see that.
I mean you look into sextrafficking, which you put
pornography, that realm, theybleed together and you see the
destructiveness and thedisgustingness of sex
trafficking and childtrafficking.
It makes you want to like ripsomeone's head off.
It makes you so angry, makesyou so angry and knowing that
(54:44):
same concept is how he uses toattack us, to get us on a
trajectory where we're going toget crushed by sexual sin,
whether that's kids gettingmolested, whether that's, you
know, just brokenness of neglect, and they find pornography like
that childhood attack onchildren.
I think that's why a lot ofpeople this the Texas flood like
that camp.
I think that's why a lot ofpeople this the Texas flood like
(55:04):
that camp.
I think that's my kids.
Like I lost both mygrandparents about a year and a
half ago.
I loved them.
They were 97 and 95.
I did not cry very much Like mygrandfather served in World War
II, like he was that old.
But you see children gettinghurt and how the enemy can use
(55:31):
his dominion on this world andhis wickedness on that.
That's probably the hardestthing.
I would say that's it.
Chris Grainger (55:38):
That's it.
Well, bro, you did great in thelightning round.
The last question for you isgoing to be what do you hope
that the guys listening,particularly guys that are
struggling with pornography andbattling what do you hope they
remember the most from ourconversation today?
Justin?
Justin Smith (55:53):
yeah.
Well, I would say twofold,let's do both.
Is we got the guy that spiritof God is stirring in him saying
, hey, listen up, pay attention,I'm talking to you.
And then you got the guy that'slistening to your podcast and
go oh, thank God, I haven'tlooked at pornography 25 years.
We got both these guys.
(56:15):
Let's start with the guy that iswalking in freedom and sexual
sins not affecting his life,especially the guy that has
tasted in the past.
You are free, but seven out of10 of the men that come to your
Bible study are not, and so only7% of churches in America have
(56:38):
anything in place to help guysget tackling sexual sin.
70% of men three quarters arestruggling, but only less than
10% of churches have somethingto do with it.
That's a problem.
So if you're that guy, I wouldencourage you to reach out to me
.
Other ministries that you'veheard of Start acquiring
(56:58):
resources.
Take that step to be bold inyour church, to be a resource
for other men that are trapped.
So, for guys, that spirit ofGod is stirring in them look,
I'm not telling you that likebeyond the line is like some
sort of solution, but itdefinitely can be your first
step, and I promise you, if Ican't give you what you need,
(57:21):
I'm going to guide you toresources that can.
The hardest thing is makingthat first email, making that
first call to break isolation.
So isolation and shame are thetwo tools that the enemy will
use to hold you trapped.
So if you reach out, I've gotthe t--shirt, I've got the scars
(57:43):
, I've got your story.
You know, maybe it's strawberry, vanilla or chocolate ice cream
, but we both have tasted icecream so I can relate and we can
guide you to mentorship andsmall groups or counseling,
where, wherever we need to getyou so you can be free and walk
in freedom.
Chris Grainger (58:03):
Amen, brother, amen.
Where do you want to send theguys, justin, to connect with
you, the wonderful things you'redoing at Beyond the Line?
Justin Smith (58:11):
Yeah, so they can go to beyondthelineministriescom
and there's a contact form downat the bottom.
They can send an email andthat'll come to me.
I can reach out to them and Ilove personalness.
Like I'm going to talk to you,like it's not 50 people, it's
(58:31):
not a recording, it's not avideo.
Like I'm gonna sit here in thissame chair and I'm gonna talk
to you and we're gonna figureout if I can help walk with you,
if I can plug you into a smallgroup and mentorship, or if
there's a better ministry outthere that'll be a fit for you.
We're going to get you the help.
So my encouragement would to beto just reach out, and so
(58:55):
that'd be the thing I wouldleave them with Awesome.
Chris Grainger (58:58):
You guys, you know.
You know the URL.
We'll make sure that's in theshow notes, justin.
It's been great.
Keep doing it, keep pushingback.
I mean, you're in a battle thatis worth fighting, brother, so
hats off to you.
We'll be praying for you andbeyond the line for the future.
Thanks, brother, appreciate it,man.
(59:18):
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That's why we created ourcommunity to help build strength
, sharpen and support brothersjust like you.
And now it's even easier tojoin than ever.
We've lowered access to just$15.99 a month.
Immediately, you'll get ourdaily spiritual kickoffs, our
(59:41):
Bible studies, lion Lunches,friday Forge and so much more.
Every man needs a strongholdand you don't have to fight
alone.
Join today at thelionwithinusthat's thelionwithinus and get
started today.
All right, guys, I told youthat would be a good one, so be
(01:00:01):
sure to go out and checkJustin's resources there.
The question that we want tothink about as we leave here is
what small compromises have goneunchecked in your life.
Again, no one ever wakes up oneday and you're just completely
addicted to hardcore pornography.
It doesn't happen.
It's small compromises andchecks and bends and weaves and
(01:00:25):
next thing, you know you'rethere, right?
We don't want you to be there,we want to help you.
So if you're, if you'velistened to this entire episode
and you are feeling a conviction, don't just suppress it.
Do something with it, even ifyou just want to head over to
the line within, dot us, connectwith us so we can start helping
you.
We have some pornographyresources as well.
(01:00:47):
Outside of what Justin's doing,justin obviously he's 100
percent focused on that we dohave a pornography.
I'm just a guy dealing withpornography.
I think it's called battlingpornography and the Bible app.
So you may want to check outsome of those resources as well,
but we're leaning into this allthe way, so we need you to just
(01:01:07):
come back and tell us how wecan serve.
Okay, so all those resourcesare found at thelionwithinus.
All right, guys, have a greatday, come back on Friday.
We'll have some good fun,friday tips for you and a couple
of dad jokes.
How about that?
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